On an unrelated note expect a fair amount of metal models to disappear from sale within the next two ish months as gw is melting down metal stock again and selling it off.
It may not be all of the metal, but fingers crossed this and the weekly releases will mean they finally convert to plastic and can do it without needing to do a new sisters codex as they have in the past (Which we would surely have heard about).
Hardly a rumour. This has been ongoing for a while now. Metals are being given the boot from GW. This was most noticeable with the ending of Specialist Games (predominately metal).
Personally, I feel switching away from metals puts off the collector. Yes, you can collect resin, but I have a feeling that Finecast and it's quality aren't really collector material. A quick glance at the CCM wiki and the myriad amounts of metal models just show that the collectors market is quite substantial. Ah well, GW isn't shy about loosing customers
It's the fact that they are supposedly doing another large batch in the next few weeks, not that they are getting rid of metal in general. Last time we saw a whole chunk of specialist games stuff go along with some of the collectors lines and upgrade kits, some of which came back as FC.
Well, if metal product codes will be going extinct, the Imperial Guard will be gutted, for one thing. They still have no non-metal Elites choices at all (except the paint-them-differently-Veterans). Priests, Tech-priests,psykers (primaris and sanctioned), all commissar variants, several SCs (Pask, Harker, Marbo and Straken) would all go byebye.
It's bad enough that you can't get a lot of the miniatures from retailers, but having no models available anywhere at all is worse. Shades of 2nd edition, when even the Marines were missing Scouts and Land Raiders.
Agamemnon2 wrote: Well, if metal product codes will be going extinct, the Imperial Guard will be gutted, for one thing. They still have no non-metal Elites choices at all (except the paint-them-differently-Veterans). Priests, Tech-priests,psykers (primaris and sanctioned), all commissar variants, several SCs (Pask, Harker, Marbo and Straken) would all go byebye.
So expect them to be dropped from the Codex I guess.
Agamemnon2 wrote: Well, if metal product codes will be going extinct, the Imperial Guard will be gutted, for one thing. They still have no non-metal Elites choices at all (except the paint-them-differently-Veterans). Priests, Tech-priests,psykers (primaris and sanctioned), all commissar variants, several SCs (Pask, Harker, Marbo and Straken) would all go byebye.
It's bad enough that you can't get a lot of the miniatures from retailers, but having no models available anywhere at all is worse. Shades of 2nd edition, when even the Marines were missing Scouts and Land Raiders.
Well, it would tie in with the rumor of a new guard codex in Feb/March... Get rid of the metal and replace with FC casts or new plastics as appropriate as part of the release as has happened in the past.
This could be, yes. It would mean quite a few plastic packs to cover even the characters, though. Commissars, regimental advisors, priests, tech-priests, primaris psyker. Then kits for ogryns and ratlings, stormtroopers and veterans. That's a lot of sprues, and I haven't even gotten to special characters yet.
Eh, maybe not. They've kept the metal models around this long, and they may do so until plastics are good to go.
Steve steveson wrote: It may not be all of the metal, but fingers crossed this and the weekly releases will mean they finally convert to plastic and can do it without needing to do a new sisters codex as they have in the past
I dunno, I expect them to update the Sisters with a traditional model/codex update, rather than drip-feeding us plastics every few weeks. The current AS codex certainly feels like a stopgap anyway.
But hey, if these weekly model releases do give the SoB something, then I certainly won't complain.
Agamemnon2 wrote: Well, if metal product codes will be going extinct, the Imperial Guard will be gutted, for one thing. They still have no non-metal Elites choices at all (except the paint-them-differently-Veterans). Priests, Tech-priests,psykers (primaris and sanctioned), all commissar variants, several SCs (Pask, Harker, Marbo and Straken) would all go byebye.
So expect them to be dropped from the Codex I guess.
I just finished painting up 9 sanctioned psykers and I have practically painted up every metal model they have. If they drop all these choices from the codex I'm not switching to the new codex. I have the luxury that I only play with a group of friends and I am sure they will not object if I stick to my 5th edition IG codex.
Ps. the 5th IG codex is good enough to survive alongside Tau & Eldar codex as long as my friends don't spam Riptides etc. (which they don't so all is good)
I do see marbo getting dropped from the next codex though...
For some reason I'm just now realising that marbo is an anagram of rambo.
Priests, sanctioned psykers, etc aren't the most difficult thing in the world to convert. Commissars are too core to the IG aesthetic and the fluff to go - practically all the IG stories I've read centre around some Commissar or other, all the way back - so I'd expect a plastic clampack.
zedmeister wrote: Hardly a rumour. This has been ongoing for a while now. Metals are being given the boot from GW. This was most noticeable with the ending of Specialist Games (predominately metal).
Personally, I feel switching away from metals puts off the collector. Yes, you can collect resin, but I have a feeling that Finecast and it's quality aren't really collector material. A quick glance at the CCM wiki and the myriad amounts of metal models just show that the collectors market is quite substantial. Ah well, GW isn't shy about loosing customers
Last time I was looking on eBay, OOP metals were going for more than the RRP of the finecast replacements. That should give an indication of how people feel on the metal/FC front.
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Bull0 wrote: For some reason I'm just now realising that marbo is an anagram of rambo.
I'm pretty sure he won't be back, since he somewhat flies the face of GW's stance that nothing they ever did was ever inspired by anything outside of the GW studio.
Herzlos wrote: Last time I was looking on eBay, OOP metals were going for more than the RRP of the finecast replacements. That should give an indication of how people feel on the metal/FC front..
A big thing is that you can strip metal miniatures so much easier, and while they're harder to work on, the harder material means they withstand the knocks and dings of time better. If given a choice, I would always buy metal over finecast.
Troike wrote: I dunno, I expect them to update the Sisters with a traditional model/codex update, rather than drip-feeding us plastics every few weeks.
Yep. I am expecting a few models for Sister Superior to disappear, though.
The following story from 4chan comes to mind. Be aware, if you are a faithful AS/SOB player do not read as the story will make you question the purity of all around you!
The Steadfast Tin Sororitas
Spoiler:
Deep within the bowls of near eternal darkness, the ten sisters of battle sat within plastic containment. The two stuck together in one pocket of plastic had been good friends for well over a decade now.
"Sister Maria-kun...when will we get to serve the Emperor?" she would ask at least once a week. Ready to hear the comfort from her superior.
"Nisa-chan...soon. Soon we will show them the Emperor's fury." Maria would always reply in a confident tone.
This dance of emotional support spun on for years... one day, though. One day everything shifted. Jostled from sleep, Sister Nisa exclaimed, "Maria! Maria! We're moving! We're going to get to serve the Emperor!"
"Yes Sister Nisa!" replied Maria with excitement.
Soon, light filled their world. The dim blue gray of overhanging light-tubes. The plastic was opened, and the sisters were dumped with their squad into a massive bucket filled with other sisters.
"Maria! Where are you?!" Nisa yelled "Here here, over here!" Maria jostled her way over the other sisters to Nisa, "Surely this will be the largest holy war the Sororitas has ever seen or will see!"
Thousands of Sisters of battle yelled praises to the Emperor as they were dumped into a lead bowl. "A transport?" questioned Maria, as the cold metal touched her. The world moved again, and orange light filled the air and their bucket was placed into an enclosure.
"Its hot Sister Maria-kun! Its hot!" exclaimed Nisa in panic.
"Don't worry Sister Nisa-chan. We will serve the Emperor. We are protected!" she said as pewter droplets began to form on the surface of her armor and roll off into the container. "The Emperor protects!"
That was the last word from the sister as her face boiled away and pooled into the bottom of the container... in a matter of minutes the super heated oven had turned all the Sisters into a pewter bar. Ready to be melted into other forms or separated for its various metals.
Herzlos wrote: Last time I was looking on eBay, OOP metals were going for more than the RRP of the finecast replacements. That should give an indication of how people feel on the metal/FC front..
A big thing is that you can strip metal miniatures so much easier, and while they're harder to work on, the harder material means they withstand the knocks and dings of time better. If given a choice, I would always buy metal over finecast.
Definitely. The only time I'd consider finecast over metal is if the model was so big weight was a problem. In which case I wouldn't want it in fine cast either!
loki old fart wrote: You'd think they would sell them anonymously on ebay. Instead on melting them down.
That's a brilliant idea. It'd work just as well as having a clearance sale (in that it'd clear the stock out almost immediately), but both ideas go against GW (no sales, no internet).
Alpharius wrote: If true, there's no way this can be seen as a good sign for SoB players...
Though do note that the rumour only claims that a "fair amount" of metal models will be going. It could be that they're just phasing out stuff that they're going to be replacing in the near-future. Besides, suddenly culling them all would be a bit of change when they've historically wanted and attempted to upgrade them to plastics and have just recently given them a new codex (which actually sold well).
Allod wrote: I honestly wasn't aware they even had any metal stock left apart from the Adeptus Sororitas stuff.
There's quite a few non-SoB metal models, actually. More than you'd think.
Allod wrote: So, Sisters are the first army to go the way of the Dodo since LatD, I presume?
Nah, I doubt it. LatD were made for an event, but GW have continually kept the SoB around. And, as I said, this rumour isn't saying that all metal models are going anyway.
Well we had the studio comment about the robes being a problem that was made aaaaaaaaages ago, around the DE re-launch so maybe the SoB palstic kits are ready to rock. Hell if the Chaos rumours turn out to be true maybe we will see the Sisters being released after or during the summer campaign.
/completespeculation
Perhaps the weekly release of kits will see more diverse releases for different armies, replacing these metal HQ models and such.
Bull0 wrote: For some reason I'm just now realising that marbo is an anagram of rambo.
Priests, sanctioned psykers, etc aren't the most difficult thing in the world to convert. Commissars are too core to the IG aesthetic and the fluff to go - practically all the IG stories I've read centre around some Commissar or other, all the way back - so I'd expect a plastic clampack.
Yep, "We'll be back," and all that. GW is derivative to the point of being humorous. It stops being humorous when they sue people claiming to own skulls, halberds, and grenade launchers though....
Possibly... This source claims that GW people said that they now had the capabilities to make plastic Sisters.
Medium of Death wrote: maybe we will see the Sisters being released after or during the summer campaign.
Hmm, I doubt it. I think we would've heard something by now, if they were coming this year. I'm thinking sometime in 2015, myself. Just speculation, though.
weeble1000 wrote: Yep, "We'll be back," and all that. GW is derivative to the point of being humorous.
Though not as much as they were in the early days. RT had an Inquisitor called Obi-wan and a fluff character who was Doctor Who in all but name.
You'd think they would sell them anonymously on ebay. Instead on melting them down.
Yeah, I never understood that policy. It would be more logical to just sell it at a reduced price, that way they are still making some money instead of just throwing it away. But no, apparently that makes GW's management sad, and we can't have that
You'd think they would sell them anonymously on ebay. Instead on melting them down.
Yeah, I never understood that policy. It would be more logical to just sell it at a reduced price, that way they are still making some money instead of just throwing it away. But no, apparently that makes GW's management sad, and we can't have that
Not necessarily. You can melt the metal down to recast with essentially no loss of material, so it might make sense to melt down the slowest moving lines to use the metal for faster moving lines.
BUT:
1. I was under the impression GW had sold off it's metal casting machinery, so they don't have the ability to do new casts and
2. Even at 50% off, they'll get significantly more selling the slow selling figure as is than the raw metal would cost, so it's still a stupid idea.
I bet they'd also have been able to unload it in bulk to someone like Wayland, or stick them in a bargain bin in WHW. Or given them away free with WH:Visions subscriptions. There's no shortage of things to do that are better than melting them down.
I imagine they want to book the figures as losses for tax purposes; this has to be recorded, so no selling them under alias or giving away for free to anybody, even employers. They refuse to discount any products so as not to devalue the brand. Makes sense.
BUT:
1. I was under the impression GW had sold off it's metal casting machinery, so they don't have the ability to do new casts
They have. But they still have the moulds or something like that. During the great Specialist Games model purge last year many of the things I ordered I was told were on back order and took a while to turn up as they had to be sent out to a 3rd party to cast them up.
Herzlos wrote: Last time I was looking on eBay, OOP metals were going for more than the RRP of the finecast replacements. That should give an indication of how people feel on the metal/FC front..
A big thing is that you can strip metal miniatures so much easier, and while they're harder to work on, the harder material means they withstand the knocks and dings of time better. If given a choice, I would always buy metal over finecast.
+1 !
My imperial guard army is solely composed of metal miniatures, and I like it as is. If a metal mini is knocked over the table, a small paint chip may occur, but apart from that, these are safe and solid figurines to move around.
No fragile bits would broke off the miniature for being hastily hand-picked during the heat of battle, and so on...
For Imperial Guard, I think the Vostoyans will be deeply missed. They are quite recent and deserve to be continued. When they hit the stores in 2006 I nearly had regrets having my load of valhallans and kasrkins already, so did not purchased a platoon of them, but oh... Such a detail level and inspiration is unsurpassed in the IG plastic range.
About the time of the AS "kind of codex update" both IG and Sisters were restocked with metal models that had been gone since they started with finecast.
The codex/armybooks since has had precious little finecast, and basicly no old models has been finecasted to acompany the new books.
If anything, I would say GW is dropping the finecast as much as they can.
GW don't you dare drop Marbo from the next codex. He's just "heavily inspired" by something outside GW.
It's not my fault my kit-bashed version just happens to look like someone out of some movie line. Pshaw, leave my insta-demo charge alone!
-DE- wrote: I imagine they want to book the figures as losses for tax purposes;
That's not how taxes work. The only way you can make more money writing the product off than selling it is if you're committing fraud. Recouping, say, 30% of your loss by writing it off is worse than recouping 100% of your loss by selling it.
Japan, corrupting everything that is pure and turning it into evil monstrosity.
Not even Cthulhu is safe ! (And yeah, he was supposedly already an evil monstrosity, but just click that link, I dare you, and tell me that you do not feel like your mind has been violated ! Though in all honesty, with tentacles and all that, it could have been worse ! Oh, and on an unrelated note, this too.)
Melting the stuff instead of a fire sale, that's illogical.
But sounds like the usual GW modus operandi so the rumour must be true.
Could you imagine GW making a one click bundle with all their metal stuff for IG at a discount? I swear it would sell and bring extra cash for GW... so HQ will probably throw away the stock, sell the warehouse and then say in the next shareholder report that they are still cutting unneeded costs agresively.
Agamemnon2 wrote: This could be, yes. It would mean quite a few plastic packs to cover even the characters, though. Commissars, regimental advisors, priests, tech-priests, primaris psyker. Then kits for ogryns and ratlings, stormtroopers and veterans. That's a lot of sprues, and I haven't even gotten to special characters yet.
Commissars and Advisors could be lumped onto a single sprue - greatcoat bodies with optional limbs and heads. Likewise for the Priests and psykers.
Ordered myself the deathwatch conversion pack. I've watched too many projects that I just keeping putting off vanish from the website in the last few months.
Get that lead pile up.
Miguelsan wrote: Melting the stuff instead of a fire sale, that's illogical.
Depends on the value of the metal and the quality of the remaining stock. It could mostly be stuff that has been sat at the back of shelves for years and needs cleaning and re-boxing before it could be sent out, or they are getting rid of dregs of stock that has been converted to FC or replaced and the IG stuff and it is going to be replaced by plastic and FC in a month. Sometimes it can be the best option. As anyone in publishing about book pulping.
Miguelsan wrote: Melting the stuff instead of a fire sale, that's illogical.
Not if you can make more selling the raw metal than the products you made from them.
Then again this is the company that sent old edition starters and non-starters like Dreadfleet to landfill, so who knows?
According to Amazon, I can get a 1lb ingot of pewter for $19.99 (retail). Which is ~500g for £12, or 2.4p per gram. I don't know what a standard metal figure weighs, but we'll be generous and say 20g, so that's 48p in pewter. The cheapest metal figures are about £3, or 6 times of the raw pewter cost.
That's assuming GW buys 1lb a time at retail instead of getting some bulk trade rate*. So GW would need to sell at over 83% discount before it makes sense to use cast figures instead of buying the raw metal. That's also not factoring in the time wasted casting them in the first place.
So even if GW sold blind grab bags on the website for 50p/figure, they'd make much, much more than melting them down. And they'd absolutely fly out of the warehouse without any worries about repackaging or anything. Hell they could even sell the metal stocks in grab bags at 50p/gram and they'd vanish.
Edit: even if was stuff that'd got the finecast treatment, they could have a "look what we found in the back of the warehouse" sale at 75% of the finecast price and they'd probably clear the metal stocks in a weekend.
*retail normally has a markup of about 100%, and there's usually bulk discounts, so I wouldn't be surprised if you can get pewter in bulk for less than £10/kilo.
According to Amazon, I can get a 1lb ingot of pewter for $19.99 (retail). Which is ~500g for £12, or 2.4p per gram. I don't know what a standard metal figure weighs, but we'll be generous and say 20g, so that's 48p in pewter. The cheapest metal figures are about £3, or 6 times of the raw pewter cost.
That's assuming GW buys 1lb a time at retail instead of getting some bulk trade rate*. So GW would need to sell at over 83% discount before it makes sense to use cast figures instead of buying the raw metal. That's also not factoring in the time wasted casting them in the first place.
So even if GW sold blind grab bags on the website for 50p/figure, they'd make much, much more than melting them down. And they'd absolutely fly out of the warehouse without any worries about repackaging or anything. Hell they could even sell the metal stocks in grab bags at 50p/gram and they'd vanish.
Edit: even if was stuff that'd got the finecast treatment, they could have a "look what we found in the back of the warehouse" sale at 75% of the finecast price and they'd probably clear the metal stocks in a weekend.
*retail normally has a markup of about 100%, and there's usually bulk discounts, so I wouldn't be surprised if you can get pewter in bulk for less than £10/kilo.
If only it were that simple. Businesses write off product rather than putting it on sale all the time. There is all sorts of considerations beyond that, for example cannibalizing sales, the cost of the inventory management, P&P, investor and market confidence. Can you imagine how much people would complain about bent and broken minis if they were all checked in bags? They will have to justify to the accountants and investors why they are melting down the stock rather than selling it off. I don't know the ins and outs of what would be better or worse financially, but I doubt very much that they have not thought of selling it off like that, or going to the major re-sellers and offering it to them as remainders.
Herzlos wrote: According to Amazon, I can get a 1lb ingot of pewter for $19.99 (retail). Which is ~500g for £12, or 2.4p per gram. I don't know what a standard metal figure weighs, but we'll be generous and say 20g, so that's 48p in pewter. The cheapest metal figures are about £3, or 6 times of the raw pewter cost.
That's assuming GW buys 1lb a time at retail instead of getting some bulk trade rate*. So GW would need to sell at over 83% discount before it makes sense to use cast figures instead of buying the raw metal. That's also not factoring in the time wasted casting them in the first place.
So even if GW sold blind grab bags on the website for 50p/figure, they'd make much, much more than melting them down. And they'd absolutely fly out of the warehouse without any worries about repackaging or anything. Hell they could even sell the metal stocks in grab bags at 50p/gram and they'd vanish.
All of that makes sense, but they may not believe they can sell those miniatures in the first place. No matter how much they're worth as miniatures, they're worth exactly $0 if they're sitting in a warehouse doing nothing. A company might not want the miniatures, but they may want the raw materials. And yes, you're right in that GW could do a sale to clear the stock and make themselves some money... but this is GW we're talking about. They're far more likely to sell their metal stock for a cheap short(est)-term gain than try to spend a longer time selling even discount metal minis. Plus they spent so much time talking about how FineCast was the greatest thing to happen in miniature gaming since the invention of dice that they would be mixing brand messages to suddenly turn around and start selling an 'inferior' product (I know it's not inferior, but when you've made out FineCast to be a combined cancer/AIDS cure, it's a bit hard to say "But also, you can buy the old stuff" without looking like a buffoon).
Additionally I can see them scrapping the whole lot rather than selling it at a discount because they've done it in the past.
They've done it before without cannibalizing sales, and in this case nothing is being written off. They are converting $x worth (at retail) of stock into $x/6 raw materials.
I get that they are worried the stuff won't sell, but what's the reason for it not selling? Lack of demand? Price too high?
There'd be nothing wrong with them running an obviously one off clearance and melting down the rest that didn't even sell at 50% off.
North star figs do it every few months; random themed bags of odd mini's that don't fit into packs (i.e. they've got 9 good casts but sell them in packs of 8). They tell you what the period is and offer them at a huge discount, because it's a better business move than melting them down. And that's a relatively tiny company compared to GW with presumably a smaller quantity of figures (North Star sells a handful of bags every few months).
Of course, this is GW, so I'm happy to accept that'll take the route that contradicts conventional wisdom where possible, and will just shake my head in disbelief.
Enceladus wrote: Hadn't you heard? GW are melting down all of their surplus metal miniatures and sculpting a huge middle finger outside their Nottingham HQ.
The inscription will read, "This Is For All The Veterans."
Back on topic, the cost of metal has never been a genuine issue. Historically, the metals that go into the tin soldier alloy have remained fairly stable in price for many decades. There was a bit of a hike a couple of years back, because of Chinese demand, but that will smooth out as miners dig up more to exploit the higher price.
From GW's perspective, though, a plastic figure is always going to be cheaper. Even if it is only a few pence, when you make millions of figures it can add up. Transport is subtly cheaper due to weight. OTOH, metal is easily recycled and plastic moulding equipment is more expensive, so overall it may even out more than we think.
I think GW want to move away from being a hardcore wargame company and be more of a teen friendly advanced toy company. From that angle, plastic and even Finecast are much better than metal.
As regards the Sisters, I for one would be incredibly sad if they got squatted. I have never had a Sisters army but it's probably the one I would do, because the whole ethos and look and feel is concentrated 40K madness.
Hopefully, GW are doing plastic versions. It certainly would be easy to mould them with separate cloaks etc, just like Tyranid Gargoyles have separate wings.
More generally, special character figures can be moulded by gathering several of them into sprue frames for mass production, which you cut and package separately afterwards.
So even if GW sold blind grab bags on the website for 50p/figure, they'd make much, much more than melting them down. And they'd absolutely fly out of the warehouse without any worries about repackaging or anything. Hell they could even sell the metal stocks in grab bags at 50p/gram and they'd vanish.
Edit: even if was stuff that'd got the finecast treatment, they could have a "look what we found in the back of the warehouse" sale at 75% of the finecast price and they'd probably clear the metal stocks in a weekend.
Maybe there is just not that much to sell anymore? After all, Specialist Game stock cleared out pretty quick once the word got out, at full prices: given how insane prices some items command at Ebay they could have actually hiked the prices. Regular 40k/Fantasy stock is probably selling slower, but many ranges too have been sold out. So maybe all that is left is pittance and just not worth the effort.
Japan, corrupting everything that is pure and turning it into evil monstrosity. Not even Cthulhu is safe ! (And yeah, he was supposedly already an evil monstrosity, but just click that link, I dare you, and tell me that you do not feel like your mind has been violated ! Though in all honesty, with tentacles and all that, it could have been worse ! Oh, and on an unrelated note, this too.)
Cthuga isn't Cthulu. Completely different Great Old One.
Okay, but what was their cost when purchased? If they paid half that price when they made these then there is profit. If they already wrote off the stock then anything gotten back is profit. Would they make more by lowering the cost of the sets? Most likely yes, but they could just dump it all in one go, and not worry about shipping, lost merchandise, or missing parts.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Again, not if no one's buying them and they're sitting in a warehouse doing nothing.
Yes we get that but if they wanted to clear it there are better ways than to melt it. Other companies do manage after all. That GW doesn't want shows as KK said the steem they have for their clients. But then that's nothing new.
Agamemnon2 wrote: Well, if metal product codes will be going extinct, the Imperial Guard will be gutted, for one thing. They still have no non-metal Elites choices at all (except the paint-them-differently-Veterans). Priests, Tech-priests,psykers (primaris and sanctioned), all commissar variants, several SCs (Pask, Harker, Marbo and Straken) would all go byebye.
So expect them to be dropped from the Codex I guess.
I'm terrified by the prospect of GW considering such a thing.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Cthuga isn't Cthulu. Completely different Great Old One.
Oh, okay. I think there is some Cthulhu character in this show (not sure, I am not masochist enough to have actually watched it), but I did not find it, so…
H.B.M.C. wrote: Again, not if no one's buying them and they're sitting in a warehouse doing nothing.
Noone is buying them at full retail. People may buy them at 25%, 50% or 75% off and GW would still be better off than melting them down.
They could even do so with almost no effort (stick them in a bargain box next to the till in Warhammer World, across the car park from the warehouse). Then if no-one wants them, maybe melting them down makes sense.
I'm not sure the justification for writing stuff off against tax (which I don't think they could do with this) which mag/book publishers do, it's presumably mostly for time sensitive runs where they become worthless. Otherwise it ends off in clearance outlets.
I suspect, however, like Dreadfleet (and the Hobbit LE box), GW will be so loathe to run a sale and de-value the brand that they'd rather bin them than offer them at clearance rates. I think it's stupid, but I can see why they'd do it.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So expect them to be dropped from the Codex I guess.
I'm terrified by the prospect of GW considering such a thing.
Oh, they are definitely going to drop special characters from the next book. Mogul Karn, Nork Deddog and Bastonne will not make it, since theyve never even had models.
Herzlos wrote: OK that's a bit more than I'd found, but that's including VAT and presumably there are significant trade discounts?
Anyway, my figures were based on £24/kg so are still in the right ball park. The figures are still worth at least ~6x more as figures than pewter.
Just weighed Cypher, unpainted, unbased, but with all the flash and tabs removed. 32g. So both your numbers were way off. And no, there do not tend to be significant trade discounts on raw materials.
At that price you are talking almost £1 per mini in scrap value using the more accurate bulk cost of £29 per kg.
Daston wrote: Well looks like the Vostroyan Mortars have gone :(
They have been gone a few months ago, already, along with 2 variants of the officer (chainsword & power fist) plus flamer & grenade launcher dudes (but these can still be bound in basic squad & command squad boxes, respectively).
Most of the awesome Vostroyan range is still available, so if you want a themed platoon, I advise to grab them while you can.
Prices at launch have not been that much of a bargain, when you had two squads of plastics cadians for the same price of one vostroyan squad (this box did not get pricier, granted). Even worse for heavy weapons, which jumped quickly from initial 11 € to the current 15€ (I don't know £ or $ prices). Remember they are from 2006, while other regiments have seen longer supply and a cheaper price era. Putting aside "buy it now" items at near-new prices, vostroyan used deals are quite scarce on ebay. When they will go OOP, used prices will go crazy.
Herzlos wrote: OK that's a bit more than I'd found, but that's including VAT and presumably there are significant trade discounts?
Anyway, my figures were based on £24/kg so are still in the right ball park. The figures are still worth at least ~6x more as figures than pewter.
Just weighed Cypher, unpainted, unbased, but with all the flash and tabs removed. 32g. So both your numbers were way off. And no, there do not tend to be significant trade discounts on raw materials.
At that price you are talking almost £1 per mini in scrap value using the more accurate bulk cost of £29 per kg.
That 29 £/kg price appears to include VAT, and there's no way GW are paying VAT, so its <24 £/kg, making it closer to 0.80 for Cypher.
Daston wrote: Well looks like the Vostroyan Mortars have gone :(
They have been gone a few months ago, already, along with 2 variants of the officer (chainsword & power fist) plus flamer & grenade launcher dudes (but these can still be bound in basic squad & command squad boxes, respectively).
Most of the awesome Vostroyan range is still available, so if you want a themed platoon, I advise to grab them while you can.
Prices at launch have not been that much of a bargain, when you had two squads of plastics cadians for the same price of one vostroyan squad (this box did not get pricier, granted). Even worse for heavy weapons, which jumped quickly from initial 11 € to the current 15€ (I don't know £ or $ prices). Remember they are from 2006, while other regiments have seen longer supply and a cheaper price era. Putting aside "buy it now" items at near-new prices, vostroyan used deals are quite scarce on ebay. When they will go OOP, used prices will go crazy.
Ahh didnt spot that. I have 3 platoons already each with 2 squads + command so it was really to bulk them out a bit more. Will get another 3 squads on payday along with some plasma guns and snipers.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So expect them to be dropped from the Codex I guess.
I'm terrified by the prospect of GW considering such a thing.
Oh, they are definitely going to drop special characters from the next book. Mogul Karn, Nork Deddog and Bastonne will not make it, since theyve never even had models.
Norg has a model. I can't remember about the other 2.
Herzlos wrote: OK that's a bit more than I'd found, but that's including VAT and presumably there are significant trade discounts?
Anyway, my figures were based on £24/kg so are still in the right ball park. The figures are still worth at least ~6x more as figures than pewter.
Just weighed Cypher, unpainted, unbased, but with all the flash and tabs removed. 32g. So both your numbers were way off. And no, there do not tend to be significant trade discounts on raw materials.
At that price you are talking almost £1 per mini in scrap value using the more accurate bulk cost of £29 per kg.
He retails at £10.25, and you reckon its got £1 of metal in it. That still means they can sell it for 80% off and still make a profit over re-melting it. And I'm pretty sure if it was sitting on the counter in WHW in a bag for £3 or £4 it'd be snapped up by lunch time.
This news might have gotten people scared. I've been looking to buy some Steel legion for the last couple of weeks and haven't been able to find much on eBay. That was till like two days ago now that its good a lot of Legion. It might just be luck but who knows.
He retails at £10.25, and you reckon its got £1 of metal in it. That still means they can sell it for 80% off and still make a profit over re-melting it. And I'm pretty sure if it was sitting on the counter in WHW in a bag for £3 or £4 it'd be snapped up by lunch time.
But that's the problem. Selling for a discount would devalue the product and work against their product image.
The only thing an unsold £10.25 model sitting in a warehouse does is generate tax liability. It probably cost a few pence to make, and a few pence to melt back down. If those are less than (or even close to) the storage cost and tax costs, then if that model isn't selling then the reasonable thing is to throw it back into the vat. That's directly liquidating assets.
Theophony wrote: Okay, but what was their cost when purchased? If they paid half that price when they made these then there is profit. If they already wrote off the stock then anything gotten back is profit. Would they make more by lowering the cost of the sets? Most likely yes, but they could just dump it all in one go, and not worry about shipping, lost merchandise, or missing parts.
This
GW probably arent considering the potential retail price of all those figures, as they only paid raw materials + whatever it cost them to cast it.
Depending exactly how long these models have sat around, the price they paid for the metal back then, to now could translate to a decent profit for GW. This high retail value that everyones arguing over is imaginary, they wont 'loose' anything by melting them and selling the raw materials on for more than they paid previously. And I would hope that the sales of the figures when new already generated a profit on the sculpting and mold tooling etc. They may also want to spend their man power on new things rather than having to sort out all these discounted figures, the logistics in moving them, admin in repricing them and all that... its probably more profitable to scrap them like this when all costs are considered properly.
He retails at £10.25, and you reckon its got £1 of metal in it. That still means they can sell it for 80% off and still make a profit over re-melting it. And I'm pretty sure if it was sitting on the counter in WHW in a bag for £3 or £4 it'd be snapped up by lunch time.
But that's the problem. Selling for a discount would devalue the product and work against their product image.
The only thing an unsold £10.25 model sitting in a warehouse does is generate tax liability. It probably cost a few pence to make, and a few pence to melt back down. If those are less than (or even close to) the storage cost and tax costs, then if that model isn't selling then the reasonable thing is to throw it back into the vat. That's directly liquidating assets.
Would it actually de-value the product though? Plenty of companies run discounts on old models (like car manufacturers, audio equipment manufacturers, Northstar minis). We're not talking about running a general sale, just a "here's some stuff we no longer make, for cheaper". The good will would long outweight the risk of devaluation (of what? a product you can't buy any more?) by giving the customers the impression they care when in reality they are just trying to make more money.
For a company that's posted a massive drop in sales, it seems bizarre that they aren't trying everything they can to maximise value.
Herzlos wrote: OK that's a bit more than I'd found, but that's including VAT and presumably there are significant trade discounts?
Anyway, my figures were based on £24/kg so are still in the right ball park. The figures are still worth at least ~6x more as figures than pewter.
Just weighed Cypher, unpainted, unbased, but with all the flash and tabs removed. 32g. So both your numbers were way off. And no, there do not tend to be significant trade discounts on raw materials.
At that price you are talking almost £1 per mini in scrap value using the more accurate bulk cost of £29 per kg.
That 29 £/kg price appears to include VAT, and there's no way GW are paying VAT, so its <24 £/kg, making it closer to 0.80 for Cypher.
Firstly I was just pointing out how pulling numbers out of the air doesn't work unless you have some idea of the numbers and secondly he VAT is still important, even though they will have claimed it back they would have to charge it selling it on wether as scrap or as a mini, so the minimum cost they can sell before being below scrap value it for is still the same wherever way you calculate the VAT.
I doubt they are worried about devaluing the brand, due to it being stuff they can clearly show is obsolete stock, but I am sure there is a good reason, business or financial, why they are scraping it rather than continuing to sell them at whatever price.
And whatever the discount or not, if there is a few thousand, that would need picking, packing, accounting for and posting, I would be very tempted to take the £2k-£3k in scrap now rather than the possible £5k-£10 over the next few months just to be shot of dead stock, along with getting back all the warehouse racking and other overheads.
Herzlos wrote: Would it actually de-value the product though? Plenty of companies run discounts on old models (like car manufacturers, audio equipment manufacturers, Northstar minis). We're not talking about running a general sale, just a "here's some stuff we no longer make, for cheaper". The good will would long outweight the risk of devaluation (of what? a product you can't buy any more?) by giving the customers the impression they care when in reality they are just trying to make more money.
For a company that's posted a massive drop in sales, it seems bizarre that they aren't trying everything they can to maximise value.
It wouldn't devalue anything, that's just a BS line GW uses when people ask why they don't do sales.
Could be nothing, could be GW just running down stock on existing lines and not wanting to buy in more metal and/or focusing on the lines it "has" to have to make a particular army still functional.
Still, possibly worth getting any bits you have been wavering on!
H.B.M.C. wrote: Selling off "once they're gone, they're gone" items at a discount won't 'devalue' anything.
If you have stock that isn't moving at the price you set it at, and you try to sell it off at a lower price, that contradicts the message "We sell premium products, at high prices that our customers are willing to pay."
If you inflate the value of something, and then have to sell it a realistic price, that's devaluing it.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Selling off "once they're gone, they're gone" items at a discount won't 'devalue' anything.
If you have stock that isn't moving at the price you set it at, and you try to sell it off at a lower price, that contradicts the message "We sell premium products, at high prices that our customers are willing to pay."
If you inflate the value of something, and then have to sell it a realistic price, that's devaluing it.
In the strictest sense you are technically correct, however what GW are saying is that selling a 15 year old sculpt for anything less than full retail somehow ruins your public image.
And we all know that is bull
Indeed, GW believe they sell a luxury product, the very best of miniatures. Companies like that don't do discounts, that would sully the brand. You don't see luxury watch manufacturers run fire sales.
If the SG stock hasn't sold by now, it never will. It's cheaper to get rid of it and free up warehouse space in the process. Also, keep in mind the new GW site launches soon - with no SG minis left, there will be no need to include tabs for them.
I remember, many years ago, several instances of going to the local GW in Hammersmith when they were clearing out old stock - either entire ranges (Man O'War) or to transition versions (Warhammer army books - the thick ones). The staff were psychotically pumped to be putting all of this stuff in big piles at huge discounts, and negotiating further reductions if you carted away a load. Their incredible keenness actually unnerved my dad quite a bit...
I suppose the difference (aside from a change in corporate culture) is that because GW only sells 2 lines now, discounted purchases *do* directly block new purchases. If you need a squad of Space Marines for 40K, and buy some old ones for a reduced price, you're never going to 'upgrade' to the new models at the current prices. They will absolutely see that as lost revenue, rather than getting a bit of extra money from wasted stock.
Bioptic wrote: I remember, many years ago, several instances of going to the local GW in Hammersmith when they were clearing out old stock - either entire ranges (Man O'War) or to transition versions (Warhammer army books - the thick ones). The staff were psychotically pumped to be putting all of this stuff in big piles at huge discounts, and negotiating further reductions if you carted away a load. Their incredible keenness actually unnerved my dad quite a bit...
I suppose the difference (aside from a change in corporate culture) is that because GW only sells 2 lines now, discounted purchases *do* directly block new purchases. If you need a squad of Space Marines for 40K, and buy some old ones for a reduced price, you're never going to 'upgrade' to the new models at the current prices. They will absolutely see that as lost revenue, rather than getting a bit of extra money from wasted stock.
I remember that as well from back in the day. They did it when they moved from lead models to the pricier 'white metal' too I'm sure to clear the shelves of their old stuff. Remember getting a stack of discontinued Epic models that weekend.
Sadly agree with your assessment re the lost revenue. In principle I could still see it working in some cases now, but they'd probably be isolated instances they would cover as 'collectors' models anyway .
Spotted on Warseer, in their WHFB rumours section :
from Zakusmaximus
GW Begins the "Great Smelt"
Word today is that truckloads containing literally metric tons of metal miniatures have pulled away from GWHQ, headed for a date with a furnace. The entire stock is to be smelted down and sold off on the metals markets.
Look for any remaining stocks of metal models to disappear shortly from the website.
GW's era of metal miniatures is over.
source... is a friend of a friend type of thing
hmmm...
Their metal minis are still there for the moment.
Good thing I ordered the last of my Sororitas Command Squad yesterday, then. Assuming this is true, of course.
Hopefully if some armies (some certainly more than others!) were to get screwed over by GW dropping metal models, those weekly model releases could address it, somewhat.
Ravajaxe wrote: Spotted on Warseer, in their WHFB rumours section :
from Zakusmaximus
GW Begins the "Great Smelt"
Word today is that truckloads containing literally metric tons of metal miniatures have pulled away from GWHQ, headed for a date with a furnace. The entire stock is to be smelted down and sold off on the metals markets.
Look for any remaining stocks of metal models to disappear shortly from the website.
GW's era of metal miniatures is over.
source... is a friend of a friend type of thing
hmmm...
Their metal minis are still there for the moment.
Ah, that makes more sense. They aren't melting down the metal to make more minis (they don't have the capacity). They've decided (just before the end of the financial year) to liquidate the metal stocks and sell them as scrap. If it really is tonnes of pewter, then they'll make a fair packet from it. But it also means they're taking a massive (95%+) hit against what it'd achieve at retail. It looks like a pretty desperate measure to prop up their bottom line and potentially reduce some storage costs at the same time.
Sadly, I had a look on the website and whilst there's some cool stuff that's going to get lost, there's nothing thats really tempting me to buy now.
Ravajaxe wrote: Spotted on Warseer, in their WHFB rumours section :
from Zakusmaximus
GW Begins the "Great Smelt"
Word today is that truckloads containing literally metric tons of metal miniatures have pulled away from GWHQ, headed for a date with a furnace. The entire stock is to be smelted down and sold off on the metals markets.
Look for any remaining stocks of metal models to disappear shortly from the website.
GW's era of metal miniatures is over.
source... is a friend of a friend type of thing
hmmm...
Their metal minis are still there for the moment.
Don't know if it is trustworthy, there are converging indications that pewter alloy minis are OOP, at least. But melting miniatures instead of selling them, even with a rebate and telling it's over ? Why ?
I will certainly place an ultimate order of metal minis very soon. Last year, when they were getting rid of epic stuff, I had regrets about hesitating on what to order.
Some minis have gone out of stock (but without notice) within a couple of days, when word has passed though the community.
I was in my local Games Workshop asking about the prospects of using the AS Penitent Engine for a conversion. He commented that the model was metal, heavy and pointed me at another product to use as a base for the conversion.
He then commented that the metals used in miniature casting were expensive, and had to be imported and shipped to their casting facilities.
His last comment was that miniatures not carried in the shop would be cast fresh from melted down stock from unsold inventories. This news could support the 'great melting' ...
This personally disappoints me. I always liked in the old days being able to go the FLGS and see rows upon rows of blister packs, and more importantly being able to space out purchases. 10 guys cost let's say $30, I only have $10 on me, let me buy a blister pack or two so I have a bit of that force. Now it's all or nothing, either you buy the plastic boxed set or you go away with nothing.
You'd never be able to have something like the original Tale of Four Gamers today, because most of their monthly expenses were in the form of blister packs as units slowly formed, and then the next month they'd buy the remaining part to make the full unit.
It might be a bit melodramatic, but getting rid of the metal figures was, for me, the end of "my" era of GW and Warhammer.
Ravajaxe wrote: Spotted on Warseer, in their WHFB rumours section :
from Zakusmaximus
GW Begins the "Great Smelt"
Word today is that truckloads containing literally metric tons of metal miniatures have pulled away from GWHQ, headed for a date with a furnace. The entire stock is to be smelted down and sold off on the metals markets.
Look for any remaining stocks of metal models to disappear shortly from the website.
GW's era of metal miniatures is over.
source... is a friend of a friend type of thing
hmmm...
Their metal minis are still there for the moment.
As I thought. They wasted it. Instead of doing the smart thing and selling it off at a reduced price. Apparently, Kirby is allergic to sales.
We also know that they've actively tried to make plastic Sisters, and just released an AS codex which sold well.
No need to lose hope.
Ai, but they could have at least waited to release the plastic versions before wasting all of that metal. Now there's going to be a bunch of players with a book but no or half an army. Where's the logic in that?
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Ai, but they could have at least waited to release the plastic versions before wasting all of that metal. Now there's going to be a bunch of players with a book but no or half an army. Where's the logic in that?
Honestly, given GW's attitude towards customers I wouldn't be surprised if their logic was that you'd go out and buy a different army that's supported with lots of plastics; in fact, I would not be surprised if they shifted blame on the player. "You should have picked an army that was better supported. How about some new Space Marines?"
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Ai, but they could have at least waited to release the plastic versions before wasting all of that metal. Now there's going to be a bunch of players with a book but no or half an army. Where's the logic in that?
I never denied that GW could be inconsiderate.
Just pointing out that there's a good case for Sisters getting plastics at some point anyway. So if this does turn out to mean that the Sisters lose their models (as frustrating as that would be). then it's not necessarily the end. Again, perhaps those weekly releases would be of help, if this happens.
Besides, we don't yet know that this rumour is 100% accurate, if at all.
The thing is, GW's customers being what they are...
All they would have needed to do is just announce that they're getting rid of their metal stock and 'watch this space' for future updates.
You'd get a mad scramble for people buying whatevers left. - Heck, look at what happened last summer based just on the rumours, without GW saying anything at all.
Yes the good old days of GW deals is gone. I had ordered from the mail order trolls one day an army of adeptus arbites, they were listed at $5.00 each or so and I asked him how many they had. Moment of silence later and I had 150 of them on the way to my house at half off. Didn't kill the brand, in fact shortly after that people were writing up articles in citadel journal for arbites armies. In business there's. term called "turns" or "turn over", its how often you sell through a particular stocked item per year/month/ fiscal period. Obviously since the discounts stopped the turns have too. While a fire sale at one register might get some sold, I think they are looking at selling ALL the metal at once, not just the sisters of battle, and with metal prices fluctuating its best for them to sell it all in one go now. While most people would say they'd buy a ton of stuff right now, knowing the gaming community, how many actually have the $$$$$ or ££££££ to buy all of it at once, even discounted. Then he remaining scraps that are left over wouldn't be enough to take to the metal market and get a good buy on it. We would all love to get a great price on the minis, but GW is doing the "right thing" for GW with his move.
Or you can just believe n executive actually read the grey knight codex and understood all the sisters of battle were destroyed, so he told the guy in the warehouse to box them up for exterminatus. Your choice.
I just checked GW webstore ( IG especially) All the squads for the different regiments are back in stock. Steellegion, Mordians even Tallarns. Can someone please doublecheck that because I don't want to raise your hopes too much because theres an issue with my browser.
Seneca wrote: I just checked GW webstore ( IG especially) All the squads for the different regiments are back in stock. Steellegion, Mordians even Tallarns. Can someone please doublecheck that because I don't want to raise your hopes too much because theres an issue with my browser.
still no Vostroyan Mortar, Grenade launcher and the 2nd 3 man blister has gone too.
Troike wrote: But my plan is power axes, a hospitaller, and a Sacred Banner of the Orders Militant.
Woah. CC Sisters ! Well, 30 point each, is that it ?
Troike wrote: We also know that they've actively tried to make plastic Sisters, and just released an AS codex which sold well.
You know that. I think it is a rumor that may be true, or false.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Now there's going to be a bunch of players with a book but no or half an army.
Half an army ? I guess almost nobody started Sisters in the last 3 years at least, for obvious cost and rules reasons. So people either have a full army, or did not start.
Troike wrote: So if this does turn out to mean that the Sisters lose their models (as frustrating as that would be). then it's not necessarily the end.
Ravajaxe wrote: But melting miniatures instead of selling them, even with a rebate and telling it's over ? Why ?
Because GW operates under the assumption that all of their customers are rabid fanboys. They assume that you are going to buy X models every month, and the only question is how much you will pay for them. Offering the old metal models allows you to spend less money on your purchase. Someone at GW has probably decided that it's better for profits to just sell the remaining stock as scrap metal and let you buy that nice expensive plastic tactical squad instead.
Harriticus wrote: The whole "will they destroy their molds out of spite before they go under?" is a real threat imo.
Not really. GW's management wants to make money, and making money by selling the IP is still making money. Trashing molds out of spite reduces the sale value of that IP for no good reason. The only reason to trash the molds would be if they don't think the models are going to sell at all in the future and there's no point in spending money keeping the obsolete molds in a warehouse somewhere.
Whilst none of us can confirm this for sure, since we weren't present when GW was trying to make them, I'd say it's pretty damn solid anyway. We have two quotes from two different well-known developers saying so.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: Half an army ? I guess almost nobody started Sisters in the last 3 years at least, for obvious cost and rules reasons. So people either have a full army, or did not start.
I dunno. I've come across quite a few new SoB players on my Internet travels. The digital codex also sold very well, and I'd image that a good chunk of the buyers were people looking to start an SoB army.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: And by that, I mean that your army, should you ever want to sell it, would have taken a huge increase in value, because it is now full of collector out of print model never again available!
But I don't want to sell my SoB. I want to use them to play 40K.
Herzlos wrote: But it also means they're taking a massive (95%+) hit against what it'd achieve at retail.
But not really, because if it doesn't sell in its current form it's worth $0. Less than that actually, as it costs them to hold it in stock. You can't lose what you weren't going to make in the first place.
Ravajaxe wrote: But melting miniatures instead of selling them, even with a rebate and telling it's over ? Why ?
Because GW operates under the assumption that all of their customers are rabid fanboys. They assume that you are going to buy X models every month, and the only question is how much you will pay for them. Offering the old metal models allows you to spend less money on your purchase. Someone at GW has probably decided that it's better for profits to just sell the remaining stock as scrap metal and let you buy that nice expensive plastic tactical squad instead.
Harriticus wrote: The whole "will they destroy their molds out of spite before they go under?" is a real threat imo.
Not really. GW's management wants to make money, and making money by selling the IP is still making money. Trashing molds out of spite reduces the sale value of that IP for no good reason. The only reason to trash the molds would be if they don't think the models are going to sell at all in the future and there's no point in spending money keeping the obsolete molds in a warehouse somewhere.
This isn't true. It's true GW is greedy and want money, but they want the money on their own terms and are extremely vicious/spiteful towards anything else that blocks this. They don't want you (veteran gaming-orientated over 15) customers, they don't want to advertise (despite every other company in the world doing it), and they don't want to market their IP to other mediums despite the potential it has. If GW did any of these things they'd make more money immediately. Above else they're a very mean-spirited company that has a real hatred towards their fanbase. GW operates in its own ridiculous angry bubble. Thus they can be very unpredictable. They went from not releasing codex's fast enough to releasing them too fast and from relaunching White Dwarf to splitting it in two a year later. I don't think anyone saw either of that coming, because we don't operate under the same kind of logic that dominates GW.
Do I think GW will destroy their molds when they go under? Probably not. If it were any other company I'd laugh at that notion and call it ridiculous. But after dealing with GW for years, I find it within the realm of rational possibility even if it's unlikely.
To be honest, at this point I wish GWS would either squat Sisters or just release the damn plastics. They have sat in this half-ass limbo for far too long, it sucks.
Ouze wrote: To be honest, at this point I wish GWS would either squat Sisters or just release the damn plastics. They have sat in this half-ass limbo for far too long, it sucks.
QFT. Although I can happily field over 2000 pts of Sisters I want plastic models to expand my options and troop choices. Sadly from being burnt by so many plastic Sisters rumours I'm at the point where I won't believe it until I'm holding them in my hand.
Herzlos wrote: But it also means they're taking a massive (95%+) hit against what it'd achieve at retail.
But not really, because if it doesn't sell in its current form it's worth $0. Less than that actually, as it costs them to hold it in stock. You can't lose what you weren't going to make in the first place.
Assuming none of it would ever sell, then you'd be correct. It's still a terrible return rate. They are going to get the worst possible price for it, and they'll be dropping a huge amount of their range (search of "metal" on GW's site shows about 800 results, though some are paints).
Realistically, if pewter costs £24/kg in small quantities before VAT, it'll cost less than £20kg in the bulk they are dealing with. so £20k/ton. The metal buyer will be offering at most 25% of what they'll sell it on for, so we're looking at most £5k/ton. Rumour is that there are multiple truck loads going, and we can assume a truck can take 20-30ton easily, so the absolute most they could be looking at is £100-150k/truck.
If a mini weighs 25g (pretty big), then you'd get 40 per kilo, or 40,000 per ton, and still assuming 20-30 ton truck loads, we're looking at between 800,000 and 120,000 minis, which we'll give a conservative average of £5 each RRP, so a low end estimate of £4-6million at retail, per truck. So they are taking at best a massive (97.5%) hit on potential income. Like I said earlier; a desperate attempt to stem their losses, in a very short-sighted manner. Even selling them at £1/mini would make them 8 times as much money, albeit over a slightly longer period (really, at £1/mini how long would it take for stuff to sell? A day?) and the overhead of packing and shipping the stuff. But if sales are down so badly there's probably excess warehousing capacity anyway.
I can see why they are doing it this way, but there are many better things they could do with the stock that'd either earn them customer goodwill (free metal blister with every WD sub or online order) or far more money (sell the mini's at anything above 97.5% off) , if only they'd get over their reluctance to offer anything resembling a deal.
I'm having a look at the metal stocks now to see if there's anything I want before it's gone, and there are a few things I'm wavering on. If they were at a clearance at 50% there would currently be over £100 worth of stuff in my basket, as it is I'm not too bothered about it.
Hell, even announcing to the customers that they're dropping the metal line on ${date} would probably double their returns on the metal stocks at least.
Herzlos wrote: Hell, even announcing to the customers that they're dropping the metal line on ${date} would probably double their returns on the metal stocks at least.
Herzlos wrote: Even selling them at £1/mini would make them 8 times as much money
Except, as I said in the other thread, selling for £1 each has a fairly significant chance of costing them a sale of a £10 finecast/plastic model that you might buy instead. And since the cost GW pays to sell you a model (retail employee salaries, shipping, shelf space, etc) are pretty much the same no matter what they're selling you it would be suicidally stupid to let you get £1 models instead of £10 ones.
customer goodwill (free metal blister with every WD sub or online order)
But do you have a compelling argument that this goodwill will translate into enough additional sales to make up for the £10 models you aren't buying because you got a free one instead? When you answer keep in mind that GW is extremely conservative in their risk analysis.
If they were at a clearance at 50% there would currently be over £100 worth of stuff in my basket, as it is I'm not too bothered about it.
Sure. But now be honest with yourself and tell me this: how long will it take you to spend £100 on GW products if you don't buy those models at 50% off?
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Harriticus wrote: This isn't true. It's true GW is greedy and want money, but they want the money on their own terms and are extremely vicious/spiteful towards anything else that blocks this.
This is completely false. GW is short-sighted and out of touch with what their customers want, but they aren't doing things out of spite.
They don't want you (veteran gaming-orientated over 15) customers,
Of course they do. They want all the sales they can get. They just don't believe that older customers offer a very good return on their investment in marketing and product design effort. So they're perfectly happy to take your money, but they aren't going to make any special effort to get it.
they don't want to advertise (despite every other company in the world doing it)
This isn't spite, it's being excessively conservative. GW believes (wrongly, IMO) that advertising doesn't work very well for such a niche hobby and carries a high risk of spending lots of money without getting a matching increase in sales. And since GW's obsessive focus is on the next financial report instead of their long-term future it's not exactly surprising that they'd be reluctant to take that risk.
and they don't want to market their IP to other mediums despite the potential it has.
Err, what? You do realize that GW licenses their IP for books and video games, right? They only draw the line at making cheap happy meal toys and other garbage that would just devalue the brand.
Do I think GW will destroy their molds when they go under? Probably not. If it were any other company I'd laugh at that notion and call it ridiculous. But after dealing with GW for years, I find it within the realm of rational possibility even if it's unlikely.
No, it's not rational at all. If GW is greedy then it makes absolutely no sense to trash molds that could be potentially valuable to whoever buys their IP (and yes, someone will buy GW's IP if/when they die as a company). GW are making bad decisions, but that doesn't mean that they're spiteful idiots who throw away money just because it's fun to be a comic book villain.
This isn't true. It's true GW is greedy and want money, but they want the money on their own terms and are extremely vicious/spiteful towards anything else that blocks this. They don't want you (veteran gaming-orientated over 15) customers, they don't want to advertise (despite every other company in the world doing it), and they don't want to market their IP to other mediums despite the potential it has. If GW did any of these things they'd make more money immediately. Above else they're a very mean-spirited company that has a real hatred towards their fanbase. GW operates in its own ridiculous angry bubble. Thus they can be very unpredictable. They went from not releasing codex's fast enough to releasing them too fast and from relaunching White Dwarf to splitting it in two a year later. I don't think anyone saw either of that coming, because we don't operate under the same kind of logic that dominates GW.
Do I think GW will destroy their molds when they go under? Probably not. If it were any other company I'd laugh at that notion and call it ridiculous. But after dealing with GW for years, I find it within the realm of rational possibility even if it's unlikely.
They have realised the spending power of the older veteran hence the focus on "collectors" in recent language from GW. When it comes to IP I do not get the impression that they do not want to exploit it just that they want total control over the IP. This is understandable, there have been many god awful adaptations of various IP over the years, even the LotR films are considered poor by the surviving Tolkien family members. However where GW enters fantasy land is their skills to exploit their IP, see the recent abysmal UM film were they convinced themselves they could be script writers, producers, etc. when they clearly can't. The even more recent search for new BL authors were they "found" only in house talent further re enforces this point.
I think the story around the Halo film and how Microsoft who have significantly more money than GW mishandled that (well worth reading as it is very funny in places: http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2012/04/halo-movie-generation-xbox/) would be magnified a million times with GW if Fox/HBO/etc., came knocking.
Troike wrote: 30 points per model, you mean? I dunno, could be.
That was actually a slight exaggeration, they are merely 28 ppm. The hospitaller is as cheap as 23 points, though. But the one with the Banner will be 53 points though. 160 for 5 T3 3+/6++ models. Could get 5 Crusaders (3++ goodness) and 5 DCA (will strike just as hard as those models from your command squad, except at I6 instead of I1) for less points. You must really value that AP2 and FNP. Or you have already used your 6 conclave slots.
Troike wrote: But I don't want to sell my SoB. I want to use them to play 40K.
Yes, but it is like shares in a company. Even if you do not sell them, you are considered richer if they went up and poorer if they went down, even though you still have the very same thing before and after. It is still nice to know that you could sell the army for a lot of money ! Also, do you need to buy new ones ? I have my 1600 points, I do not as long as GW does not update the codex to make my army illegal. And they will not release a new codex without models.
Ouze wrote: To be honest, at this point I wish GWS would either squat Sisters or just release the damn plastics.
If it comes to that… then, we will be squatted :(.
Herzlos wrote: Even selling them at £1/mini would make them 8 times as much money
Except, as I said in the other thread, selling for £1 each has a fairly significant chance of costing them a sale of a £10 finecast/plastic model that you might buy instead. And since the cost GW pays to sell you a model (retail employee salaries, shipping, shelf space, etc) are pretty much the same no matter what they're selling you it would be suicidally stupid to let you get £1 models instead of £10 ones.
Assuming that'd they'd buy anyway and that there are equivalents, you'd be right. But there are a lot of old metals there with no equivalents (grot mechanics, dwarf adventurers, drunken dwarfs, etc), and a lot of people who won't buy things at the new prices anyway.
customer goodwill (free metal blister with every WD sub or online order)
But do you have a compelling argument that this goodwill will translate into enough additional sales to make up for the £10 models you aren't buying because you got a free one instead? When you answer keep in mind that GW is extremely conservative in their risk analysis.
Maybe, maybe not, but to be fair GW are pretty low on the good will department, and again you're assuming that a £1 metal sale will cost them a £10 plastic sale, when they probably don't correlate.
If they were at a clearance at 50% there would currently be over £100 worth of stuff in my basket, as it is I'm not too bothered about it.
Sure. But now be honest with yourself and tell me this: how long will it take you to spend £100 on GW products if you don't buy those models at 50% off?
Me, personally? A couple of years at least. I spent £15 on some soon-to-be-OOP stuff I fancy, but beyond some paint and maybe a new army book I'm not expecting to buy anything else from GW until the new editions of WHF/40K drop. So what I didn't buy there is purely lost revenue.
If they were at a clearance at 50% there would currently be over £100 worth of stuff in my basket, as it is I'm not too bothered about it.
In one sign? ∞
Almost anything GW sells and I want I can get from ebay for 50-60% of retail price, and I rarely go even that high.
Now, if I wanted something quite bad and I had to choose between hogging ebay for weeks or just paying the same price and get it from the local GW store, I'd just grab it there, nice, clean and unspoiled. So yeah, I may not be the typical consumer that GW makes money on. If they had anything like a reasonable pricing policy this would change. I wouldn't bother ebaying to save 1-2€ while spending 7€ on packaging and safe delivery.
I do find it really funny that GW parallels the Imperium: Bloated, corrupt, oblivious to everything around them, thinking that doing the same thing as they've always done with lots of ceremony and pretending that nothing else exists is the way to go as the galaxy changes around them.
Which makes Dakka and Warseer and other community sites Chaos. Or Tau, since most of what's done online is for the benefit of the community.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: 160 for 5 T3 3+/6++ models. Could get 5 Crusaders (3++ goodness) and 5 DCA (will strike just as hard as those models from your command squad, except at I6 instead of I1) for less points. You must really value that AP2 and FNP. Or you have already used your 6 conclave slots.
I just like the Canoness too much for my own good. I also find the idea of an really customisable command squad pretty cool. Yeah, maybe they;'re not the most optimum choice, but I think I can get some good performance out of them. And I'm considering having a Conclave to move around with them too, who would also get the fun benefits of the banner.
Rather. The number in my sig is what I have (more or less) fully assembled or painted, but I have a few other models besides that. Still have a lot of models to buy.
BlackTalos wrote: I guess everyone here is agreed that the "metal melt" has happened?
Not really. Metal is still on the GW site, we don't know if this is true, yet. I think that people are just a little panicked at the idea of it happening.
Mr. Burning wrote: they haven't had a codex in an age and have had two half hearted pamphlet efforts is irrelevant.
No they're not. They've only been less then the usual codex releases due to a lack of model updates, which was in turn due to modelling issues preventing GW from doing a model update. And the last two codexes were still investments, showing that GW wants to keep them around.
Mr. Burning wrote: If people had wanted these metal minis, they would have brought them.
These metal models are expensive, order-only and often don't come in full squads. Of course some are reluctant to buy them, or even unaware that they exist.
Meanwhile, the newest AS codex sold well. This demonstrates a clear interest in the SoB, and shows that people are willing to spend money on them.
Mr. Burning wrote: they haven't had a codex in an age and have had two half hearted pamphlet efforts is irrelevant.
No they're not. They've only been less then the usual codex releases due to a lack of model updates, which was in turn due to modelling issues preventing GW from doing a model update. And the last two codexes were still investments, showing that GW wants to keep them around.
Mr. Burning wrote: If people had wanted these metal minis, they would have brought them.
These metal models are expensive, order-only and often don't come in full squads. Of course some are reluctant to buy them, or even unaware that they exist.
Meanwhile, the newest AS codex sold well. This demonstrates a clear interest in the SoB, and shows that people are willing to spend money on them.
How well did the codex sell? Gw do not provide these figures.
Did it sell well enough to warrant the expense of tooling for Plastic AS?
GW have had what? 10+ years to model and release plastic sisters. If current GW saw a market for them don't you think they would have been released? (3rd parties aren't exactly jumping on this lucrative band wagon either).
Please do not see this as a rant against you or the many active sisters players. But - along with the rest of the metals - demand vs current plastics and third parties and alternative gaming systems (in the case of specialist ) pricing or not just wasn't there. if by GW's own design or by the action of us hobbyists.
Subjectively high pricing would not be considered an issue by GW as to why the range may or may not be selling.
Folk high up in the design department have said the reason there were not plastic sisters earlier is they did not have the ability to make them
they've also said they now do (basically since DV came out of there about)
I'm pretty sure that the 'selling well' info has come from GW digital
Raging Heroes had a very successful KS for female only minis, (a lot of which will end up as sister or guard proxys) despite being a company known for big delays
So I think that IF they are dumping the metal sisters (and don't intend to get them cast on demand in future) there will be plastic replacements
I posted this in the GW mid-year financials thread, but it is relevant here:
weeble1000 wrote: I agree about finding a way to sell off the old metal stock. There's also the potential to recover valuable goodwill. GW loses goodwill by destroying miniatures that will never exist again. It just does. Whatever the financial reasons, it further tarnishes GW's brand.
GW could possibly have boosted the luxury status of its brand by selling off "old" and "obsolete" models at fire sale prices, perhaps in grab bag bundles. Get people buying from the GW webstore again, get people saying something GOOD about GW for once, bring a little money in the door. And who is going to nostalgically buy a decade old miniature? Your veteran customers, possibly those that have stopped purchasing from GW entirely. "Last Chance to Buy" would be a strong motivator to make sales, especially if that carrot was followed by the stick of having a set date to destroy the stock and sell it for scrap. 'We're clearing out all metal stock to make room for more new, modern, professionally designed miniatures from all of the ranges we don't seem like we are supporting right now. This stuff is going to go to the scrap yard by X date, but until then you can buy it!'
Pair that with WD weekly mags that reprint old articles! Get some use out of them. Reprint articles about those models. Reprint the old marketing photos. Reprint old bat reps with those models. Reprint articles about using those models for conversions. Write NEW articles about chopping up those old models to make sweet conversions with your NEW models! Revise the Necromunda and Mordheim rules into a trim little version and PUT THEM IN WD WEEKLY along with adds for bundles that let you buy 5 whole gangs/warbands for $50. Get people excited about GW, even if it is them being excited about the OLD GW. Reuse old material, make fans HAPPY for once.
Hell, GW could have gone whole hog and done a week or two week long GW Retro campaign. Put a new skin on the webstore, do some interviews about the old days with employees and former employees that still like you for some reason, push all of that old metal stock hard, time it with some sort of anniversary (you can find one - Hell, use Jes Goodwins birthday if you have to). Do it for two weeks and let everyone know that at the end of that two week party, GW is putting all of those old models into the smelter and selling them for scrap, never to be seen again.
Missed. Opportunity.
Instead GW gets more ho-humming about its myopic and fan-unfriendly policies.
BlackTalos wrote: I guess everyone here is agreed that the "metal melt" has happened?
Not really. Metal is still on the GW site, we don't know if this is true, yet. I think that people are just a little panicked at the idea of it happening.
Eh, not necessarily. They may keep some metal models around. As I said, we don't know exactly what's happening yet, if anything.
Ah, i was asking about the status as i know so, not because i'm wondering if it's been done :p
I got my info from a good source i know in person. 3 Trailer trucks were filled with metal stock from Nottingham. Up to you if you think 3 trailers is only half their stock ;-)
(and by trailer, i mean This )
I did wonder how the site still has them/why you can still buy them. But until someone actually orders a AS model (and reports back from now) we do not know indeed.
Automatically Appended Next Post: In case the thread/rumor need some more confirmation =p
They must've sold pretty well. In the spoilered pic, we can see them at #6 on iBooks.
Spoiler:
Mr. Burning wrote: Did it sell well enough to warrant the expense of tooling for Plastic AS?
Apparently so, but that's irrelevant anyway. Jes Goodwin and Phil Kelly have both mentioned how GW have tried to make plastic Sisters in the past. What stopped them was modelling issues. Basically, they couldn't get features like the robes or hair to look good in plastic.
Though, reportedly, they said last year that they now have the capability to do them in plastic.
Apparently so, but that's irrelevant anyway. Jes Goodwin and Phil Kelly have both mentioned how GW have tried to make plastic Sisters in the past. What stopped them was modelling issues. Basically, they couldn't get features like the robes or hair to look good in plastic.
Though, reportedly, they said last year that they now have the capability to do them in plastic.
Orly? Dark eldar have long hair, priests, dark angels and probably half the fantasy range have cloth and robes, every other HQ has a cloak... Sounds like a really lame excuse to me.
I got my info from a good source i know in person. 3 Trailer trucks were filled with metal stock from Nottingham. Up to you if you think 3 trailers is only half their stock ;-)
(and by trailer, i mean This )
I did wonder how the site still has them/why you can still buy them. But until someone actually orders a AS model (and reports back from now) we do not know indeed.
Best figure I can see is approx 29 ton max load for those trucks, so that's anything up to 87 tons of minis. Ouch.
WayneTheGame wrote: Which makes Dakka and Warseer and other community sites Chaos. Or Tau, since most of what's done online is for the benefit of the community.
Warseer is chaos : lots of in-fighting, and a bad atmosphere. Dakka is an ork empire : lots of in-fighting, and a nice friendly atmosphere .
Troike wrote: I just like the Canoness too much for my own good.
That is what Count-As is for !
Troike wrote: I also find the idea of an really customisable command squad pretty cool.
That is not a very customizable command squad. A very customizable command squad has access to bikes, jetpacks, stormshields, …
Troike wrote: The number in my sig is what I have (more or less) fully assembled or painted, but I have a few other models besides that. Still have a lot of models to buy.
Woah, never noticed that. Do you have an exorcist ? You definitely need at least one. And seraphims are really cool to play with Hit and run. Given how monotonous the rest of the army will be, you need one unit of them too !
Mr. Burning wrote: GW have had what? 10+ years to model and release plastic sisters.
Do not be so hard on GW. 10 years is not that long. To put things into perspective, it took the Apollo program 8 years to land men on the moon, and then bring them safely back. If such a minor feat could be performed in 8 years, surely something as impressive as plastic models can not be achieved in any less than 10 years !
When you scrap metal like that you only get pennies to the dollar. Lets say you melt it down first, you may get more money, but you have to pay for smelting, also as GW metal is an alloy I'm not sure how that works. Bets be would be to smelt it and sell it back to the vendor or another miniature company. Still going to take a giant hit.
Could have just given away grab bags with each online order. They could have written off the loss and built up online sales and maybe some good will. As grab bag items you are not really affecting future sales, because people could not pick what they want, and you are most likely not giving out full usable units.
GW could offer a discount, or a grab bag or throw them from the windows of Lenton HQ like heavy, silvery candy.
I suspect that the metal range will be accounted for as SLOBS (Slow moving - Obsolete stock) Given GW's practices they wouldn't even dream of offering these items at discount. I mean, the clear out if their specialist range was successful at full price...........
UK and US sites still have all the AS models shipping in 24 hours. If this guy really saw three truckloads getting dumped, that'd pretty much not be true anymore, right?
but we don't know how much old junk (metal) they had, they could have been a bunch that had never been on sale for ages and that's what's gone, and they've kept the stock where they have it on the site at the moment
Mr. Burning wrote: How well did the codex sell? Gw do not provide these figures.
Did it sell well enough to warrant the expense of tooling for Plastic AS?
GW have had what? 10+ years to model and release plastic sisters. If current GW saw a market for them don't you think they would have been released? (3rd parties aren't exactly jumping on this lucrative band wagon either).
Please do not see this as a rant against you or the many active sisters players. But - along with the rest of the metals - demand vs current plastics and third parties and alternative gaming systems (in the case of specialist ) pricing or not just wasn't there. if by GW's own design or by the action of us hobbyists.
Subjectively high pricing would not be considered an issue by GW as to why the range may or may not be selling.
I'm going to say the same thing I've said before: Games Workshop has spent nine times as much money on moulds for five different plastic Space Marine Dreadnoughts as they'd need to spend on a combined HQ, Elites, Troops, Fast Attack and Heavy Support kit for the Sisters of Battle. Limited edition skull-shaped rocks for a game nobody asked for were found deserving of a plastic kit, but the Sisters didn't get one sprue. And one sprue would be all they needed to provide a foundation for the army - anything else could come later.
Show me a man who thinks that the fifth plastic kit in the already saturated plastic Space Marine dreadnought market will sell more than twice as much as the entire Sisters of Battle army put together, and I'll show you an idiot or a bigot.
Herzlos wrote: It's more likely that they just haven't updated the website yet, and that it might be done as part of the overhaul.
I've put in an order for some "Usually ships within 24 hours" items, so we'll find out in a few days if it's fulfilled or not.
That'd be a pretty big oops to sell stuff through the cart that doesn't exist yet. Occam's Razor, man.
Not at all. I've bought things on the online store before and got an email a few days later saying it's OOP and offering a refund. So I don't find it unlikely for it to happen again.
In fact I find it more likely that GW will sell off the metal first, so as to leave the changes to as late as possible and wrap them up in the website changes, than for GW to still have stocks because they are on the website.
BlackTalos wrote: But until someone actually orders a AS model (and reports back from now) we do not know indeed.
I ordered two the day before the rumour was posted, but I don't know if that would have been interfered with by this, if it is indeed going to interfere with AS models. As Pretre said, you'd think we would've heard something by now.
Kosake wrote: Orly? Dark eldar have long hair, priests, dark angels and probably half the fantasy range have cloth and robes, every other HQ has a cloak... Sounds like a really lame excuse to me.
It's not that they can't do hair and robes full stop, rather that they had specific issues doing them with plastic Sisters. Jes Goodwin goes into the specifics of it here:
Yes the problem with the Sisters of Battle has been the cloth robe sleeves on the under side of their arms, their hair and also the script work on their shoulders.
The problem with the robes on their arms is that it can only be sculpted flowing in one direction, which means posing can be a problem.
This isn't such an issue with Sisters armed with Bolt Guns as the pose will be pretty much set, but when you get things like Seraphim or models armed with close combat weapons you would get a very limited number of poses. This is because if you had the arm held up high the robes may stick out in a gravity defying way, which would look very unnatural.
The hair is essentially the same thing. They want the new models to be much more dynamic, which would mean their hair would not be as static as the previous Sisters of Battle miniatures. This poses problems with posing as the hair and robes need to flow in the same direction, which again limits the amount of poses possible (sorry for the over use of the word pose there - couldn't think of another on! ).
The bit I didn't quite get the gist of was the shoulder plates. He said they wanted embossed and rolling scriptwork on the shoulder plates, and the way it was curving around the plates was presenting problems. I'm not sure in all honesty what that meant but it may be similar to the problems mentioned above or it might be the way the model is cast. It might be the fact that you are very limited in undercuts on a tool when producing plastic miniatures ( by tool I mean mold, but plastic molds are known as tools).
Counts-as is for heretics. I shall field my Canoness as the God-Emperor intended.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: That is not a very customizable command squad. A very customizable command squad has access to bikes, jetpacks, stormshields,
I was referring to their weapons loadouts. But yes, they could be much more customisable still. Could be that the metal models are holding the army as a whole back from becoming more dynamic. I image that plastic models would come with some more options.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: Woah, never noticed that. Do you have an exorcist ? You definitely need at least one. And seraphims are really cool to play with Hit and run. Given how monotonous the rest of the army will be, you need one unit of them too !
Just put it in recently. And yeah, I know the basics of SoB army building.
AlexHolker wrote: but the Sisters didn't get one sprue. And one sprue would be all they needed to provide a foundation for the army - anything else could come later.
Though let's not forget that they have attempted to actually make plastic Sisters in the past, they haven't just abandoned the Sisters entirely.
The new weekly model releases might just be the chance that plastic SoBs need, as before they would have been bound by a codex release.
I just like to point out that there's some pretty good evidence in favour of plastic SoBs happening at some point. More often than not I think that people are a little too cynical about this subject anyway, so an alternate view is an okay thing to have.
I can understand why you guys aren't all that hopeful, though.
BlackTalos wrote: But until someone actually orders a AS model (and reports back from now) we do not know indeed.
I ordered two the day before the rumour was posted, but I don't know if that would have been interfered with by this, if it is indeed going to interfere with AS models. As Pretre said, you'd think we would've heard something by now.
Testing it out myself, just put up an order as i needed 2 more metlaguns =)
If it gets shipped, then Sister o Battle stock was untouched, and this was another pile of metal from another source...
Couldn't that also be indicative that GW is indeed trying to get rid of all their metal? To move it one way or another.
Also the cynic in me says they're pushing these metal slayers now only to have new plastic slayers in the near future. Surely there's no way they'd not release new slayers (probably the most iconic unit of the army) when the current ones are sooo damn old. I hope not too many people get suckered into buying them.
Show me a man who thinks that the fifth plastic kit in the already saturated plastic Space Marine dreadnought market will sell more than twice as much as the entire Sisters of Battle army put together, and I'll show you an idiot or a bigot.
Could just be a last ditch effort to cash in on the dwarf release and shift some metal at the same time (good on 'em, it's better to do that than scrap them). I wouldn't be susprised to find plastic slayers shortly though.
Troike wrote: More often than not I think that people are a little too cynical about this subject anyway, so an alternate view is an okay thing to have.
You will be cynical too ! Just wait a dozen of years full of rumor of plastic SOB, and you will be !
Alpharius wrote: If we've conclusive proof that it isn't true, than yes.
I apologize for not paying close attention in here - so, is there a consensus that it is, in fact, not true?
At the moment it is an unconfirmed rumour by pretre
I fear that getting rid of metal and Finecast has a higher priority for the non-gaming GW managers than keeping the existing Codices and armybooks functional. And that they won't be present on the new website.
Alpharius wrote: If we've conclusive proof that it isn't true, than yes.
I apologize for not paying close attention in here - so, is there a consensus that it is, in fact, not true?
Well, people have ordered quite a bit of metal in the last few days since this rumor says it was all sent away to be smelted and the orders have shipped. That's a pretty good indication that this is bunk.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kroothawk wrote: At the moment it is an unconfirmed rumour by pretre
I fear that getting rid of metal and Finecast has a higher priority for the non-gaming GW managers than keeping the existing Codices and armybooks functional. And that they won't be present on the new website.
Well, if three tractor trailers of metal were smelted where are all these metal minis that are still getting shipped coming from?
And isn't that 'alleged' new website since I've seen no official confirmation of that.
Alpharius wrote: If we've conclusive proof that it isn't true, than yes.
I apologize for not paying close attention in here - so, is there a consensus that it is, in fact, not true?
At the moment it is an unconfirmed rumour by pretre
I fear that getting rid of metal and Finecast has a higher priority for the non-gaming GW managers than keeping the existing Codices and armybooks functional. And that they won't be present on the new website.
I would like to add I also have personally heard of the 3 trailer trucks being filled with Pewter models. No internet rumour, someone told me on the day it was happening =P
Now i am still waiting upon my recent order, as it's currently "Order being processed", but if people are still getting metal stock sent to them then it must have been the "old" metal models (the ex-finecast stock).
This doesn't mean the event did not happen, just that currently listed items are unaffected.
As for the "metal is cheap" argument, I do believe some people in the UK have been stealing sewer covers to sell off and make money as well as copper wiring from along Rail tracks.... Metal is not selling cheap, and smelting their stock might get GW a quick cash-in they might be needing atm
As for the "metal is cheap" argument, I do believe some people in the UK have been stealing sewer covers to sell off and make money as well as copper wiring from along Rail tracks.... Metal is not selling cheap, and smelting their stock might get GW a quick cash-in they might be needing atm
While not as high as they were previously. Prices did go through a pretty strong tear for several years. Around the time GW switched to finecast. Nickel was skyrocketing. I can't fault them for switching from metal to resin. I just fault them for the process and resin they switched too.
GW has always been pretty cavalier when it comes to "culling" materials from their sites.
What you guys need to know is that they, as far as we can tell, have melted down their metal stocks and have likely thrown out the production molds as well.
That would make sense if they were switching over to Finecast, resin or plastic production since those materials wouldn't be needed anymore.
That leaves the original sculpt, LG tins, metal masters, master molds, RTV molds & resin masters.
How much of those are GW destroying? Do we know? Have they also gotten rid of the Nicem casting machines and vulcanizers as well?
As long as they have any of those, older product could conceivably come back in some form. Plastic injection molding machines are all very similar so you could make tools using the old masters and cast them in a different type of plastic like the PVC Privateer Press uses. Using materials like that undercuts aren't a big issue so it's theoretically possible to make those models in plastic, using the same machines GW already has, but with a different type of plastic or even resin.
Remember that the majority of Finecast releases used the same masters that were formerly used to make molds for metal casting so those materials are versatile and still useable.
What worries me the most is that there are people at GW with no sense of "history" or "nostalgia" for GW so they don't see those materials as something that should be stored and archived for posterity. It already happened once, back around 2005-ish. Someone at GW Lenton threw out more than he was supposed to so GW lost a large number of classic product.
From what I've heard, this already happened at GW Memphis. When I ran the mold dept there we had molds for hundreds of codes that even the UK couldn't produce anymore. We had kept all of those out of nostalgia and a sense of history because myself and several others were fans of GW models.
If someone can find out what is happening to the masters and master molds and equipment we can get a better idea of what is going on.
mechanicalhorizon wrote: If someone can find out what is happening to the masters and master molds and equipment we can get a better idea of what is going on.
That would indeed be extremely helpfull but i would say "too internal": I doubt anyone on here would know... But maybe. You probably have more insight on this than anyone considering that background...
BlackTalos wrote: That would indeed be extremely helpfull but i would say "too internal": I doubt anyone on here would know... But maybe. You probably have more insight on this than anyone considering that background...
I tried to get some info from a few people I know at GW, but they either aren't talking or don't know. But then again they are mostly just acquaintances, not friends. Just a few people I knew when I worked there.
Although lately I've been considering reapplying to the studio for a sculpting position, I wish I had kept in better contact with some of my former coworkers now.
pretre wrote: And isn't that 'alleged' new website since I've seen no official confirmation of that.
Is GW's annual report official enough for you?
Our online shop is doing well. Sales are up to £14. 4 million from £13.1 million. During the year we built a new one and will be testing it over the coming year. It is planned to be fully operational in April 2014.
Maybe the weekly WD will allow them to pace out the release of clampacks to replace the old metal and finecast minis that are getting the axe, too? At the premium they sell them, they might see the artificial scarcity as building up demand for their upcoming products?
pretre wrote: And isn't that 'alleged' new website since I've seen no official confirmation of that.
Is GW's annual report official enough for you?
Our online shop is doing well. Sales are up to £14. 4 million from £13.1 million. During the year we built a new one and will be testing it over the coming year. It is planned to be fully operational in April 2014.
pretre wrote: And isn't that 'alleged' new website since I've seen no official confirmation of that.
Is GW's annual report official enough for you?
Our online shop is doing well. Sales are up to £14. 4 million from £13.1 million. During the year we built a new one and will be testing it over the coming year. It is planned to be fully operational in April 2014.
Yep, and now all the folks who 'predicted' it after July don't get credit anymore.
Just because GW says April doesn't mean it won't take them till July. They are still trying to figure out this internet thing but for some reason they can't find a service that will connect to their telegraph.
pretre wrote: And isn't that 'alleged' new website since I've seen no official confirmation of that.
Is GW's annual report official enough for you?
Our online shop is doing well. Sales are up to £14. 4 million from £13.1 million. During the year we built a new one and will be testing it over the coming year. It is planned to be fully operational in April 2014.
Theophony wrote: Just because GW says April doesn't mean it won't take them till July. They are still trying to figure out this internet thing but for some reason they can't find a service that will connect to their telegraph.
They just need a programmer who is not fired after a month because of treason
Such a detail level and inspiration is unsurpassed in the 
well then lets slap false all over it and shut it down 
