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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Again, not if no one's buying them and they're sitting in a warehouse doing nothing.

Yes we get that but if they wanted to clear it there are better ways than to melt it. Other companies do manage after all. That GW doesn't want shows as KK said the steem they have for their clients. But then that's nothing new.

M.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
Well, if metal product codes will be going extinct, the Imperial Guard will be gutted, for one thing. They still have no non-metal Elites choices at all (except the paint-them-differently-Veterans). Priests, Tech-priests,psykers (primaris and sanctioned), all commissar variants, several SCs (Pask, Harker, Marbo and Straken) would all go byebye.

So expect them to be dropped from the Codex I guess.

I'm terrified by the prospect of GW considering such a thing.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Cthuga isn't Cthulu. Completely different Great Old One.

Oh, okay. I think there is some Cthulhu character in this show (not sure, I am not masochist enough to have actually watched it), but I did not find it, so…

Looks like I had better order a load of vostroyans quick then!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Again, not if no one's buying them and they're sitting in a warehouse doing nothing.

Noone is buying them at full retail. People may buy them at 25%, 50% or 75% off and GW would still be better off than melting them down.
They could even do so with almost no effort (stick them in a bargain box next to the till in Warhammer World, across the car park from the warehouse). Then if no-one wants them, maybe melting them down makes sense.

I'm not sure the justification for writing stuff off against tax (which I don't think they could do with this) which mag/book publishers do, it's presumably mostly for time sensitive runs where they become worthless. Otherwise it ends off in clearance outlets.

I suspect, however, like Dreadfleet (and the Hobbit LE box), GW will be so loathe to run a sale and de-value the brand that they'd rather bin them than offer them at clearance rates. I think it's stupid, but I can see why they'd do it.

 ph34r wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So expect them to be dropped from the Codex I guess.

I'm terrified by the prospect of GW considering such a thing.

Oh, they are definitely going to drop special characters from the next book. Mogul Karn, Nork Deddog and Bastonne will not make it, since theyve never even had models.

Well looks like the Vostroyan Mortars have gone :(

Herzlos wrote:
OK that's a bit more than I'd found, but that's including VAT and presumably there are significant trade discounts?

Anyway, my figures were based on £24/kg so are still in the right ball park. The figures are still worth at least ~6x more as figures than pewter.

Just weighed Cypher, unpainted, unbased, but with all the flash and tabs removed. 32g. So both your numbers were way off. And no, there do not tend to be significant trade discounts on raw materials.

At that price you are talking almost £1 per mini in scrap value using the more accurate bulk cost of £29 per kg.

Daston wrote:
Well looks like the Vostroyan Mortars have gone :(

They have been gone a few months ago, already, along with 2 variants of the officer (chainsword & power fist) plus flamer & grenade launcher dudes (but these can still be bound in basic squad & command squad boxes, respectively).
Most of the awesome Vostroyan range is still available, so if you want a themed platoon, I advise to grab them while you can.
Prices at launch have not been that much of a bargain, when you had two squads of plastics cadians for the same price of one vostroyan squad (this box did not get pricier, granted). Even worse for heavy weapons, which jumped quickly from initial 11 € to the current 15€ (I don't know £ or $ prices). Remember they are from 2006, while other regiments have seen longer supply and a cheaper price era. Putting aside "buy it now" items at near-new prices, vostroyan used deals are quite scarce on ebay. When they will go OOP, used prices will go crazy.

 Troike wrote:

Though not as much as they were in the early days. RT had an Inquisitor called Obi-wan and a fluff character who was Doctor Who in all but name.

I don't know if it's the same fluff character as you were talking about but... You should have a read of:

 Steve steveson wrote:

Herzlos wrote:
OK that's a bit more than I'd found, but that's including VAT and presumably there are significant trade discounts?

Anyway, my figures were based on £24/kg so are still in the right ball park. The figures are still worth at least ~6x more as figures than pewter.

Just weighed Cypher, unpainted, unbased, but with all the flash and tabs removed. 32g. So both your numbers were way off. And no, there do not tend to be significant trade discounts on raw materials.

At that price you are talking almost £1 per mini in scrap value using the more accurate bulk cost of £29 per kg.

That 29 £/kg price appears to include VAT, and there's no way GW are paying VAT, so its <24 £/kg, making it closer to 0.80 for Cypher.

There's no way GW doesn't buy tons of metal, either.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
There's no way GW doesn't buy tons of metal, either.

Well...didn't.

 Ravajaxe wrote:

Daston wrote:
Well looks like the Vostroyan Mortars have gone :(

They have been gone a few months ago, already, along with 2 variants of the officer (chainsword & power fist) plus flamer & grenade launcher dudes (but these can still be bound in basic squad & command squad boxes, respectively).
Most of the awesome Vostroyan range is still available, so if you want a themed platoon, I advise to grab them while you can.
Prices at launch have not been that much of a bargain, when you had two squads of plastics cadians for the same price of one vostroyan squad (this box did not get pricier, granted). Even worse for heavy weapons, which jumped quickly from initial 11 € to the current 15€ (I don't know £ or $ prices). Remember they are from 2006, while other regiments have seen longer supply and a cheaper price era. Putting aside "buy it now" items at near-new prices, vostroyan used deals are quite scarce on ebay. When they will go OOP, used prices will go crazy.

Ahh didnt spot that. I have 3 platoons already each with 2 squads + command so it was really to bulk them out a bit more. Will get another 3 squads on payday along with some plasma guns and snipers.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

 ph34r wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So expect them to be dropped from the Codex I guess.

I'm terrified by the prospect of GW considering such a thing.

Oh, they are definitely going to drop special characters from the next book. Mogul Karn, Nork Deddog and Bastonne will not make it, since theyve never even had models.

Norg has a model. I can't remember about the other 2.

 Steve steveson wrote:

Herzlos wrote:
OK that's a bit more than I'd found, but that's including VAT and presumably there are significant trade discounts?

Anyway, my figures were based on £24/kg so are still in the right ball park. The figures are still worth at least ~6x more as figures than pewter.

Just weighed Cypher, unpainted, unbased, but with all the flash and tabs removed. 32g. So both your numbers were way off. And no, there do not tend to be significant trade discounts on raw materials.

At that price you are talking almost £1 per mini in scrap value using the more accurate bulk cost of £29 per kg.

This one? http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1130401

He retails at £10.25, and you reckon its got £1 of metal in it. That still means they can sell it for 80% off and still make a profit over re-melting it. And I'm pretty sure if it was sitting on the counter in WHW in a bag for £3 or £4 it'd be snapped up by lunch time.

This news might have gotten people scared. I've been looking to buy some Steel legion for the last couple of weeks and haven't been able to find much on eBay. That was till like two days ago now that its good a lot of Legion. It might just be luck but who knows.

Herzlos wrote:

He retails at £10.25, and you reckon its got £1 of metal in it. That still means they can sell it for 80% off and still make a profit over re-melting it. And I'm pretty sure if it was sitting on the counter in WHW in a bag for £3 or £4 it'd be snapped up by lunch time.

But that's the problem. Selling for a discount would devalue the product and work against their product image.

The only thing an unsold £10.25 model sitting in a warehouse does is generate tax liability. It probably cost a few pence to make, and a few pence to melt back down. If those are less than (or even close to) the storage cost and tax costs, then if that model isn't selling then the reasonable thing is to throw it back into the vat. That's directly liquidating assets.

 Theophony wrote:
Okay, but what was their cost when purchased? If they paid half that price when they made these then there is profit. If they already wrote off the stock then anything gotten back is profit. Would they make more by lowering the cost of the sets? Most likely yes, but they could just dump it all in one go, and not worry about shipping, lost merchandise, or missing parts.

This

GW probably arent considering the potential retail price of all those figures, as they only paid raw materials + whatever it cost them to cast it.
Depending exactly how long these models have sat around, the price they paid for the metal back then, to now could translate to a decent profit for GW. This high retail value that everyones arguing over is imaginary, they wont 'loose' anything by melting them and selling the raw materials on for more than they paid previously. And I would hope that the sales of the figures when new already generated a profit on the sculpting and mold tooling etc. They may also want to spend their man power on new things rather than having to sort out all these discounted figures, the logistics in moving them, admin in repricing them and all that... its probably more profitable to scrap them like this when all costs are considered properly.

I suspect GW will pull a dreadfleet and run around trying to destroy any metals they have left.

Gonna be a Diary of Anne Fuegan situation as we all desperately try to hide our metal mini's.

Haha, I like that! How's up for a night raid on the Warehouse to rescue all those poor souls condemned to the melting pot

M.

Until we discover those doomed for the fires were actually finecast and eagerly hand them back over

 solkan wrote:

Herzlos wrote:

He retails at £10.25, and you reckon its got £1 of metal in it. That still means they can sell it for 80% off and still make a profit over re-melting it. And I'm pretty sure if it was sitting on the counter in WHW in a bag for £3 or £4 it'd be snapped up by lunch time.

But that's the problem. Selling for a discount would devalue the product and work against their product image.

The only thing an unsold £10.25 model sitting in a warehouse does is generate tax liability. It probably cost a few pence to make, and a few pence to melt back down. If those are less than (or even close to) the storage cost and tax costs, then if that model isn't selling then the reasonable thing is to throw it back into the vat. That's directly liquidating assets.

Would it actually de-value the product though? Plenty of companies run discounts on old models (like car manufacturers, audio equipment manufacturers, Northstar minis). We're not talking about running a general sale, just a "here's some stuff we no longer make, for cheaper". The good will would long outweight the risk of devaluation (of what? a product you can't buy any more?) by giving the customers the impression they care when in reality they are just trying to make more money.

For a company that's posted a massive drop in sales, it seems bizarre that they aren't trying everything they can to maximise value.

 azreal13 wrote:

 Steve steveson wrote:

Herzlos wrote:
OK that's a bit more than I'd found, but that's including VAT and presumably there are significant trade discounts?

Anyway, my figures were based on £24/kg so are still in the right ball park. The figures are still worth at least ~6x more as figures than pewter.

Just weighed Cypher, unpainted, unbased, but with all the flash and tabs removed. 32g. So both your numbers were way off. And no, there do not tend to be significant trade discounts on raw materials.

At that price you are talking almost £1 per mini in scrap value using the more accurate bulk cost of £29 per kg.

That 29 £/kg price appears to include VAT, and there's no way GW are paying VAT, so its <24 £/kg, making it closer to 0.80 for Cypher.

Firstly I was just pointing out how pulling numbers out of the air doesn't work unless you have some idea of the numbers and secondly he VAT is still important, even though they will have claimed it back they would have to charge it selling it on wether as scrap or as a mini, so the minimum cost they can sell before being below scrap value it for is still the same wherever way you calculate the VAT.

I doubt they are worried about devaluing the brand, due to it being stuff they can clearly show is obsolete stock, but I am sure there is a good reason, business or financial, why they are scraping it rather than continuing to sell them at whatever price.

And whatever the discount or not, if there is a few thousand, that would need picking, packing, accounting for and posting, I would be very tempted to take the £2k-£3k in scrap now rather than the possible £5k-£10 over the next few months just to be shot of dead stock, along with getting back all the warehouse racking and other overheads.

Herzlos wrote:
Would it actually de-value the product though? Plenty of companies run discounts on old models (like car manufacturers, audio equipment manufacturers, Northstar minis). We're not talking about running a general sale, just a "here's some stuff we no longer make, for cheaper". The good will would long outweight the risk of devaluation (of what? a product you can't buy any more?) by giving the customers the impression they care when in reality they are just trying to make more money.

For a company that's posted a massive drop in sales, it seems bizarre that they aren't trying everything they can to maximise value.

It wouldn't devalue anything, that's just a BS line GW uses when people ask why they don't do sales.

Selling off "once they're gone, they're gone" items at a discount won't 'devalue' anything.

And of course this is still just a rumour.

Could be nothing, could be GW just running down stock on existing lines and not wanting to buy in more metal and/or focusing on the lines it "has" to have to make a particular army still functional.

Still, possibly worth getting any bits you have been wavering on!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Selling off "once they're gone, they're gone" items at a discount won't 'devalue' anything.

If you have stock that isn't moving at the price you set it at, and you try to sell it off at a lower price, that contradicts the message "We sell premium products, at high prices that our customers are willing to pay."

If you inflate the value of something, and then have to sell it a realistic price, that's devaluing it.

 solkan wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Selling off "once they're gone, they're gone" items at a discount won't 'devalue' anything.

If you have stock that isn't moving at the price you set it at, and you try to sell it off at a lower price, that contradicts the message "We sell premium products, at high prices that our customers are willing to pay."

If you inflate the value of something, and then have to sell it a realistic price, that's devaluing it.

In the strictest sense you are technically correct, however what GW are saying is that selling a 15 year old sculpt for anything less than full retail somehow ruins your public image.
And we all know that is bull

Indeed, GW believe they sell a luxury product, the very best of miniatures. Companies like that don't do discounts, that would sully the brand. You don't see luxury watch manufacturers run fire sales.

If the SG stock hasn't sold by now, it never will. It's cheaper to get rid of it and free up warehouse space in the process. Also, keep in mind the new GW site launches soon - with no SG minis left, there will be no need to include tabs for them.

I remember, many years ago, several instances of going to the local GW in Hammersmith when they were clearing out old stock - either entire ranges (Man O'War) or to transition versions (Warhammer army books - the thick ones). The staff were psychotically pumped to be putting all of this stuff in big piles at huge discounts, and negotiating further reductions if you carted away a load. Their incredible keenness actually unnerved my dad quite a bit...

I suppose the difference (aside from a change in corporate culture) is that because GW only sells 2 lines now, discounted purchases *do* directly block new purchases. If you need a squad of Space Marines for 40K, and buy some old ones for a reduced price, you're never going to 'upgrade' to the new models at the current prices. They will absolutely see that as lost revenue, rather than getting a bit of extra money from wasted stock.