Dakka,

Thought I would share a friend and I's recent obsession.

With GW nonsense on the continual rise, I began looking elsewhere to scratch the nerd itch. I like WW2 a ton, but reading the old testament that is the Flames of War rule book is just too much for me. Somehow I found Bolt Action and knew immediately that this was the game I was looking for. Prior to the discovery of Warlord games, I was attempting to write a 15mm skirmish game for all the lovely Open Fire minis I had bought in anticipation of getting back into FOW 3rd edition. One day I was gluing them to pennies and then thought why not use them for Bolt Action. A friend of mine (dj0311dj) agreed and the rest is history.

If you want a fun pick up and play platoon combat game try Bolt Action. If you are tired of rebalancing your budget to play 40k then try Bolt Action. If you are extra broke at the moment (like myself) and lucky enough to have a friend willing to play 15mm, then buy a Flames of war platoon for 20 bucks, maybe a vehicle for another 12, glue them to pennies and you will have more points than the game is even suggested to play at. (FYI, in the USA pennies are a coin that is worth less than the energy it takes for one to bend over and pick it up off the street if found... so if you live in a country where your money is worth something use another suitably small round object).

Or...If I have gotten you to read this far, look at the Open Fire Starter set. 60 dollars for 2 complete armies with TONS to spare.

Battlefront Minis getting ready to be painted.


Here is most of my collection as of now. I don't even know how many points this is but its well over 2000. Keeping in mind the game is supposed to played at 1000.


I'm not the best painter. But at 15mm...who cares?






I don't really use the big cats often. Bolt Action is a very Infantry centric game, and massive Jagdpanthers usually get ignored or become Airstrike fodder quickly, and at 500ish points a pop they suck up a lot of resources in a 1000pt game.

But every German Army at least needs the option for a Tiger


And now the Terrain. Since I'm still walking with a limp from a few years of an abusive GW relationship, I decided I would try and make all the terrain from everything I had left over in the house. These bush rows are coat hangers sprayed brown with flock glued to them. Doesn't get cheaper or more effective than that. Some of the houses are cardboard and other such things with some plaster I had left over from my terrain kit. Few plastic pieces scrounged from the bits box.



field made out of a scrounged mini clip board.





A 2x2 section of my modular game board with terrain on it.






And lastly, the one house rule that we play with. If you have ever seen Too Fat Lardies WW2 set Chain of Command, you will find this awesome "patrol phase" mechanic that they have. Basically, before deployment, players play a mini game where they move tokens around the board, having them lock in place when they come a certain distance from one another. These represent were your forward scouts have reconnoitered and become jump off points for your units to be place on.



We allow infantry and vehicles with the Recce rule to enter from these points, all other vehicles must enter from the table edge. It makes for an effective Fog of War, and adds another layer of strategic depth in deciding where to commit forces.

So far we have played on a 4x4 board and have always had ample room. The only other change we make is adjusting to centimeters. 2 centimeters per inch shaves off just the right length..ie. a MG 42 on bipods normally fires 30", so now fire 60 cm.

Thanks for reading. If you are looking for something fun and cost effective I assure you 15mm Bolt Action is worth looking at. We have had tons of success with it.

Very cool, but I thought Warlord Games was 28mm?

 hellrath wrote:
Very cool, but I thought Warlord Games was 28mm?

You don't have to use Warlord figures to play their rules. The same goes for all companies.

There's some players at the FLGS who've done the exact same thing!

I've been intending to give it a go myself since I've got loads of spare BF models I can base. I've actually been putting together a SAGA force in 15mm, much nicer to work in that scale I find.

Yeah Warlord makes figures for bolt action in 28. Very nice and affordable ones I might add. Most of them being multipart plastic.

I just had a load of BF minis that weren't being used. In fact I can't help but believe that every ww2 gamer has atleast a small stash of extra FOW figures on hand.

Using these I inadvertently discovered that 15mm comes with some inherent advantages. Though painting fine details is a bit harder than 28mm, it's possible to churn out whole squads in half the time. Furthermore, you just get a ton more battlefield at that scale. More battlefield, more room to maneuver, more tactical depth.

Thanks for the interest fellas. I'll try and post up a batrep and more pics .


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also...Has anyone actually played Too Fat Lardies' Chain of Comman?

Nice, We will have to give it a try

Excellent stuff. I've also based up a load of my spare 15mm figures in this way. Not tried them with Bolt Action yet, but I've used them with NUTS! and Flying Lead. Your terrain is also really inspiring.

Hope you post more soon.

I might just have to start getting ww2 miniatures... maybe I'll start with dioramas, I've always wanted to do them.

I play Chain of Command, what do you want to know?

@marielle.

Just how you like it really, and how it stacks up against Bolt Action. I watched the YouTube videos on it and was pretty impressed. But I have also heard a fair share of people saying they got bored with it easily.

I just can't seem to find any info on it other than people loving it or hating it. Is it worth picking up?

I don't buy the whole Rolling Stones vs Beatles thing between Bolt Action and Chain of Command. It's a question of what sort of game you want - as for loving or hating, the only people I know personally who love Bolt Action are being paid by Warlord to promote it at shows - the others find it meh...

Is Chain of Command worth picking up?

The short answer is yes.

The reasons I like the game is that the games develop organically, and are very much character driven... not in the sense of a pre-defined character (with a premium priced miniature to match)... but in the sense that private Schultz can change the flow of the game and Private Smith can swing it back.

I suspect the people who get bored with the rules easily are your typical small d.... uhhhh.... ego... gamer which wants a game where you line up and run at each other, after poring over supplements to build 'the list'. Chain of Command is most definitely not that style of game - there is a points system - but it is not really a pick up game - which is probably why many of the critics are American (my apologies if this sounds stereotypical). To maybe clarify that point, in the recognized sense it is not a balanced game, and it doesn't pretend to be. If you get the dice, you can win without the opponent deploying in certain scenarios. Within the frame of reference of what is being played out that is perfect - you get orders to recon a village, there were no enemy in that village, you have succeeded in what you were told to do - to some people this is not a wargame,

However in reality what tends to happen more often is that you get the dice going with you, you decide that you feel lucky, you take a chance to run across a field, the dice switch and you get machine gunned by an ambushing fire team that wrecks half you force - which again to many people is not a wargame, because why should you be expected to plan for a sudden change of iniative - and it's not realistic that the machine gun team lose over watch because the turn ends - even though if you bother to think about what has really happened is that the machine gun team has taken up position, decided that nothing is happening so have broken open the field rations for a much needed meal - that doesn't happen in a game of super soldiers.

To me the strength of the system is that the various elements of your force act and react in an historically consistent and relevant manner. And you are rewarded for building terrain and modelling a battlefield - which to me is a wargame.

Plus if you link battles together and use your imagination in doing so, the game becomes stronger.

Yeah no love lost on the American war game scene. While we have a good amount of casual gamers, our systems is built primarily around pick up games with aquatainces/ strangers in an FLGS where point balance is kind of Important in the "good fences make good neighbors" approach if you get my drift? But when the primary game is 40k. It's not like equal points equal a balanced game.

I was floored by some of the Two Fat Lardies Mecahnics. They are both simple and incredibly intuitive. Their force organization chart to me is one of the best parts. Very out of the box but seems to be effective. not saying that a donkey cave can't jump in and game the game but it still seems pretty well thought out.

My friend and I are both former infantry Marines so we tend to be a bit more critical than the average gamer. Of course we understand that realism has to be sacrificed for fun at some level, but we find the fog of war effect that the jump,off points create is a super awesome mechanic. ( are they the first people to install this?)

Nevertheless the American game scene is also suffering a massive GW hangover at the moment, so a simple pick up and play style game like bolt action is an easy transition for many.

Chain of command however looks great. Seems like those guys have come up with some real novel ideas. That patrol phase is one of the best war game innovations (assuming it is new) that I have seen for awhile. I will buy their games to support them at the least. I just hope that the rest of the rule set doesn't go to far down the complex rabbit hole. I've memorized so many rules in the last two years that bolt action's simplicity is also some of its allure. ( even though we house rules chain of command into it ).

My only issue with it is this. ( and this is assuming that this is true). Can't you just keep rolling 6s to a degree and keep taking turns without your opponent getting a turn?

Also we love bolt action at 15mm. But we also have to admit that the patrol phase jump off point that we stole
from toofatlardies is half the fun and changes the game completely.

Also Marielle I forgot to thank you for the detailed response. Fortunately for me My friend will go down the rabbit hole with me on any ruleset so I think,I'll pick it up. Are you completely against Bot Action?





Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit for spelling. "Good fences make good neighbors" NOT good feces makes good neighbors.

The rolling 6's sounds great if you are looking at it from the perspective of the math hammer gamer trying to break the game in a vaccuum.

But what actually happens is that the more 6's you roll, the less you can do in that specific phase, And the things you can do, are not necessarily what you would want to do. In effect the extra phases you get allow you to develop the attack or defence over more a longer period of time.

As for Bolt Action, I am not completely against any game or rule set. My issue is that the design uses weapon ranges to achieve the fire and movement aspects of WWII infantry combat, which to me is a poor decision - especially when one considers the ground scale at 28mm (assuming you follow the model of using the figures and rules from the same company) the effective range for a WWII rifle is roughly the equivalent of an 18th century smoothbore musket.

I think you sold me. I'm going to buy the book.

Nice painted jobs btw... in all the excitement I forgot to mention it....

OH DEAR JESUS!!!!!! I just explained to my wife the awesomeness and cleverness of this and as shes heard me talk about wanting to start bolt action but her being against the several hundred dollar investment (again) she is all on board for this and that for under a $100 bucks to get a decent army plus the books etc WOOOOOOHOOOOOO!!! Not to mention others in my game group!!!

Haha yeah you can get into 15mm bolt action at about 30 bucks!

Thanks for the inspiration mate, just pulled out some 15mm British, I honestly don't think ww2 is right for 28mm it seems to scale much better with 15's or 20's plus its cheaper and the battlefields just seem more right

 marielle wrote:

As for Bolt Action, I am not completely against any game or rule set. My issue is that the design uses weapon ranges to achieve the fire and movement aspects of WWII infantry combat, which to me is a poor decision - especially when one considers the ground scale at 28mm (assuming you follow the model of using the figures and rules from the same company) the effective range for a WWII rifle is roughly the equivalent of an 18th century smoothbore musket.

One thing you have to consider with the ranges is that it's not the maximum effective range of the weapon but an effective engagement range in a combat situation. Is is easy to hit a target at 500m in the prone on a rifle range with proper respiratory pause, sight picture and sight alignment. It is a completely different story under fire with smoke, dust, explosions and adrenaline.

Personally at 28mm I do feel the ranges are a little short for anything outside a house to house engagement but you also have to remember your models aren't ducking and weaving like a person in combat. I do think that 15mm is a much better scale and things seem more realistic in the sense of ranges and maneuver space.

I should really do this with that Open Fire set too. However, i think I would use Force-on-Force rules for my WWII platoon+ gaming.

I'll start off by saying I love Bolt Action, both rule sets and scale for skirmishes. I've currently got 2,000-ish points of German infantry. However, if I want to recreate a larger-scale battle then 15mm might be the way to do it. (I'm deludedly thinking of 40k and Epic 40k).

I'm going to mention the dreaded "range", as in what range do you use for Bolt Action in 15mm? I'm thinking of halving everything (28 divided by 2 is 14 which is roughly 15).

Easy E I was just about to bring up force on force... for small level games between irregulars and regulars I love the system especially for it base simplicity and the room it allows for expansion into complex issues affecting your troops be it LSD in vietnam or low ammo and supplies for the surrounded germans at stalingrad

dj0311dj wrote:

 marielle wrote:

As for Bolt Action, I am not completely against any game or rule set. My issue is that the design uses weapon ranges to achieve the fire and movement aspects of WWII infantry combat, which to me is a poor decision - especially when one considers the ground scale at 28mm (assuming you follow the model of using the figures and rules from the same company) the effective range for a WWII rifle is roughly the equivalent of an 18th century smoothbore musket.

One thing you have to consider with the ranges is that it's not the maximum effective range of the weapon but an effective engagement range in a combat situation. Is is easy to hit a target at 500m in the prone on a rifle range with proper respiratory pause, sight picture and sight alignment. It is a completely different story under fire with smoke, dust, explosions and adrenaline.

Personally at 28mm I do feel the ranges are a little short for anything outside a house to house engagement but you also have to remember your models aren't ducking and weaving like a person in combat. I do think that 15mm is a much better scale and things seem more realistic in the sense of ranges and maneuver space.

28mm is @1/50th or 1/48th depending on you choice, therefore a 6' by 4' table is @200' by 300' (or about the size of a standard football pitch)', so I am not sure why you are talking about ranges of 500m. One would need to use 6mm figures on a standard table to get ranges anything close to 500m.

It makes no sense that a rifle has a maximum range of 100', even if you are prone with a proper respiratory pause.

Silver_skates

We convert the inches into centimeters by doubling the inches.

Ie...30 inches (the range of an LMG) becomes 60cm. It manages to shave just the appropriate amount of the range off.

While this method works well for us, you may find that keeping inches works just fine.

We have an invasion of Normandy 2vs2 planned for the spring on a very large table. Looking forward to how the large scale battle works out as well.

From the guys I know who've been playing it in 15mm; they haven't changed the ranges on anything and they've found it works just as well.

 marielle wrote:

dj0311dj wrote:

 marielle wrote:

As for Bolt Action, I am not completely against any game or rule set. My issue is that the design uses weapon ranges to achieve the fire and movement aspects of WWII infantry combat, which to me is a poor decision - especially when one considers the ground scale at 28mm (assuming you follow the model of using the figures and rules from the same company) the effective range for a WWII rifle is roughly the equivalent of an 18th century smoothbore musket.

One thing you have to consider with the ranges is that it's not the maximum effective range of the weapon but an effective engagement range in a combat situation. Is is easy to hit a target at 500m in the prone on a rifle range with proper respiratory pause, sight picture and sight alignment. It is a completely different story under fire with smoke, dust, explosions and adrenaline.

Personally at 28mm I do feel the ranges are a little short for anything outside a house to house engagement but you also have to remember your models aren't ducking and weaving like a person in combat. I do think that 15mm is a much better scale and things seem more realistic in the sense of ranges and maneuver space.

28mm is @1/50th or 1/48th depending on you choice, therefore a 6' by 4' table is @200' by 300' (or about the size of a standard football pitch)', so I am not sure why you are talking about ranges of 500m. One would need to use 6mm figures on a standard table to get ranges anything close to 500m.

It makes no sense that a rifle has a maximum range of 100', even if you are prone with a proper respiratory pause.

I think you have missed my point. I've got multiple brands of 28mm, all approx 1 1/4" tall. Call that the average height of a man at 6' and you looking at about 230' X 346' on a 4' X 6' table.

500yds is the effective range of an M1 rifle. That range is only achieved on closed ranges in training using the techniques I mentioned perviously. While that can easily be achieved in that situation on a stationary target it cannot be reliably achieved in combat against a moving target in cover or concealment. Most firefights happen much closer with multiple line of sight obstructions effectively making combat effective range more like 100 to 200 yds or 300-600'.

24" in this scale is about 115' which like I said before I do feel is too short. I didn't say maximum effective range of a rifle was 100' in the prone with proper respatory pause I said it was representative of a combat engagement range.

A 18th century musket was used en masse at 50yds, over open terrain, not aimed at individuales and simply a precurser to a bayonet charge. It was still not reliably accurate at that range.

When we use 15mm we have a table that is more like 384' X 576' with 24" being 192' which we feel is just a touch more accurate.

dj0311dj wrote:

 marielle wrote:

dj0311dj wrote:

 marielle wrote:

As for Bolt Action, I am not completely against any game or rule set. My issue is that the design uses weapon ranges to achieve the fire and movement aspects of WWII infantry combat, which to me is a poor decision - especially when one considers the ground scale at 28mm (assuming you follow the model of using the figures and rules from the same company) the effective range for a WWII rifle is roughly the equivalent of an 18th century smoothbore musket.

One thing you have to consider with the ranges is that it's not the maximum effective range of the weapon but an effective engagement range in a combat situation. Is is easy to hit a target at 500m in the prone on a rifle range with proper respiratory pause, sight picture and sight alignment. It is a completely different story under fire with smoke, dust, explosions and adrenaline.

Personally at 28mm I do feel the ranges are a little short for anything outside a house to house engagement but you also have to remember your models aren't ducking and weaving like a person in combat. I do think that 15mm is a much better scale and things seem more realistic in the sense of ranges and maneuver space.

28mm is @1/50th or 1/48th depending on you choice, therefore a 6' by 4' table is @200' by 300' (or about the size of a standard football pitch)', so I am not sure why you are talking about ranges of 500m. One would need to use 6mm figures on a standard table to get ranges anything close to 500m.

It makes no sense that a rifle has a maximum range of 100', even if you are prone with a proper respiratory pause.

I think you have missed my point. I've got multiple brands of 28mm, all approx 1 1/4" tall. Call that the average height of a man at 6' and you looking at about 230' X 346' on a 4' X 6' table.

500yds is the effective range of an M1 rifle. That range is only achieved on closed ranges in training using the techniques I mentioned perviously. While that can easily be achieved in that situation on a stationary target it cannot be reliably achieved in combat against a moving target in cover or concealment. Most firefights happen much closer with multiple line of sight obstructions effectively making combat effective range more like 100 to 200 yds or 300-600'.

24" in this scale is about 115' which like I said before I do feel is too short. I didn't say maximum effective range of a rifle was 100' in the prone with proper respatory pause I said it was representative of a combat engagement range.

A 18th century musket was used en masse at 50yds, over open terrain, not aimed at individuales and simply a precurser to a bayonet charge. It was still not reliably accurate at that range.

When we use 15mm we have a table that is more like 384' X 576' with 24" being 192' which we feel is just a touch more accurate.

Instead of using pedantry and sophistry, go back and look at my initial criticism - namely....

"As for Bolt Action, I am not completely against any game or rule set. My issue is that the design uses weapon ranges to achieve the fire and movement aspects of WWII infantry combat, which to me is a poor decision."

btw I enjoy watching you twist in the wind, and find your attempts to teach me to suck eggs amusing,

@dj0311dj

What do you think the max effective range on a javelin is? Thats probably something were gonna need to figure out the appropriate 15mm range on soon.

 Strombones wrote:
@dj0311dj

What do you think the max effective range on a javelin is? Thats probably something were gonna need to figure out the appropriate 15mm range on soon.

Which javelin? This one?



If so, 2500 meters is what is typically listed, though the article here: http://www.deagel.com/news/Javelin-Man-Portable-Anti-Tank-Missile-Demonstrates-Extended-Range-Capability_n000011204.aspx indicates a much longer range. I suspect that longer range has the missile in a high arc with most of its flight unpowered since the rocket will have burnt out a lot earlier in the flight.

If you mean the thrown spear javelin, effective range was probably about 50 feet, but good troops could probably chuck it 100 feet or so.

yeah I'm mean the anti tank missile. We have a running joke that My Bolt Action Germans Will soon be able to upgrade panzerschrecks to javelins in the new armies of germany book.

Though I'm sure a modern warfare 15mm game is not far off in the list of things to do. Khufasan minis might be good for that.

Edit. Also, this picture is motivating.

 marielle wrote:

dj0311dj wrote:

 marielle wrote:

dj0311dj wrote:

 marielle wrote:

As for Bolt Action, I am not completely against any game or rule set. My issue is that the design uses weapon ranges to achieve the fire and movement aspects of WWII infantry combat, which to me is a poor decision - especially when one considers the ground scale at 28mm (assuming you follow the model of using the figures and rules from the same company) the effective range for a WWII rifle is roughly the equivalent of an 18th century smoothbore musket.

One thing you have to consider with the ranges is that it's not the maximum effective range of the weapon but an effective engagement range in a combat situation. Is is easy to hit a target at 500m in the prone on a rifle range with proper respiratory pause, sight picture and sight alignment. It is a completely different story under fire with smoke, dust, explosions and adrenaline.

Personally at 28mm I do feel the ranges are a little short for anything outside a house to house engagement but you also have to remember your models aren't ducking and weaving like a person in combat. I do think that 15mm is a much better scale and things seem more realistic in the sense of ranges and maneuver space.

28mm is @1/50th or 1/48th depending on you choice, therefore a 6' by 4' table is @200' by 300' (or about the size of a standard football pitch)', so I am not sure why you are talking about ranges of 500m. One would need to use 6mm figures on a standard table to get ranges anything close to 500m.

It makes no sense that a rifle has a maximum range of 100', even if you are prone with a proper respiratory pause.

I think you have missed my point. I've got multiple brands of 28mm, all approx 1 1/4" tall. Call that the average height of a man at 6' and you looking at about 230' X 346' on a 4' X 6' table.

500yds is the effective range of an M1 rifle. That range is only achieved on closed ranges in training using the techniques I mentioned perviously. While that can easily be achieved in that situation on a stationary target it cannot be reliably achieved in combat against a moving target in cover or concealment. Most firefights happen much closer with multiple line of sight obstructions effectively making combat effective range more like 100 to 200 yds or 300-600'.

24" in this scale is about 115' which like I said before I do feel is too short. I didn't say maximum effective range of a rifle was 100' in the prone with proper respatory pause I said it was representative of a combat engagement range.

A 18th century musket was used en masse at 50yds, over open terrain, not aimed at individuales and simply a precurser to a bayonet charge. It was still not reliably accurate at that range.

When we use 15mm we have a table that is more like 384' X 576' with 24" being 192' which we feel is just a touch more accurate.

Instead of using pedantry and sophistry, go back and look at my initial criticism - namely....

"As for Bolt Action, I am not completely against any game or rule set. My issue is that the design uses weapon ranges to achieve the fire and movement aspects of WWII infantry combat, which to me is a poor decision."

btw I enjoy watching you twist in the wind, and find your attempts to teach me to suck eggs amusing,

There is no need to lash out. I was simply giving you a legitimate reason for weapons that can theoretcally make shots across entire the table to have a limited range in game. Your comparison to an 18th century muskets range is harsh and unfounded and personally I don't see how the weapon ranges are used to achieve fire and maneuver either. Fire and Manuever is a tactic designed to close with the enemy to improve your ability to engage effectively and eliminate the threat. That is fully achieved here and to my mind accurately represented.

I'm sorry for trying to give a point of view that was contrary to yours. Just because a weapon is able to reach a certain range doesn't mean it can realistically be done in combat or should be portrayed that way in a game or sim. Most people really have no notion of the reality of combat, they see something on tv or read it online and think that must be how it is.

Lastly I fail to see how anything I have said is sophistry. Please enlighten me.

dj0311dj... last time I didn't understand you... now I am lashing out... is there no limit to your rhetorical skills? Oh wait I just noticed you latest flourish... "Most people really have no notion of the reality of combat, they see something on tv or read it online and think that must be how it is."... lol, good one....

Anywho...

Let's recap shall we...

I was asked if I completely dislike Bolt Action. I said I didn't, but offered the criticism that I don't like the weapon ranges. Which are equivalent to 18th century smooth bore muskets. Which it is.

You then jump in, presumably to defend Bolt Action, and contrary to your claim, far from presenting a a view contrary to mine, all you have shown is that you are happy with the skewed choices concerning weapons ranges for the sake of game play. I am pleased for you.

This is seriously derailing my happy Bolt Action Thread.

 Strombones wrote:
This is seriously derailing my happy Bolt Action Thread.

Yeup

I probably wont play with the ranges.
I do have buckets of A&A Minis that I will probably use. Terrain I am a little light on, but I think we can make it work.

 Strombones wrote:
yeah I'm mean the anti tank missile. We have a running joke that My Bolt Action Germans Will soon be able to upgrade panzerschrecks to javelins in the new armies of germany book.

Though I'm sure a modern warfare 15mm game is not far off in the list of things to do. Khufasan minis might be good for that.

Edit. Also, this picture is motivating.

Khurasan's are really nice. I am biased though, I helped a bit on the research for them. Rebel also make decent moderns, as do Eureka. I still use my old Peter Pig for the US and have insurgents from a slew of sources.

At 15mm I wouldn't change the written ranges/movement distances in the rule book. They will still work fine, and give you a better sense of maneuver.

 Strombones wrote:
This is seriously derailing my happy Bolt Action Thread.

Indeed.

Anywho..,

If you are making buildings the card used for mounting pictures is your friend. It's cheap to buy, and easily scored with a dental tool to get the brick pattern.

Here's a ruined barn I made for my WWI project...


Coconut matting, chopped up a bit, makes great wheat fields, pan scourers are ideal for hedges, and if you use 2mm mdf to back any terrain piece, it is simple and fairly cheap to build a great looking table that is easily transportable.

Oh and there is a Chinese company on ebay that sells great trees for 7 quid for a 100, that are well worth checking out.

The Khurasan figures are lovely, the only obsitcal to me buying lots is the shipping costs from the US. The Peter Pig ones are pretty good. Their AK-47 range can easily be adapted to almost any Middle Eastern, African or Soviet Bloc nation. I am still considering a modern skirmish project in 15mm, but it's a long way away.

It’s a shame the range argument spoiled the thread earlier on, but I think that a 24” range of a rifle on table is fine.

After WW2 there was a study by the US and if I remember correctly they could not find a single small arms engagement in the entire war that occurred at a greater range than 200 yards. The vast majority of firefights happening at range of less than 50 yards. This was a big factor in the decision to switch to smaller caliber assault rifles later on as the additional range granted by larger caliber rifle rounds was discovered to be largely redundant.

In a 28mm game 24” represents about 40 yards. I’d say that’s about right for effective rifle ranges in battlefield conditions.

40 yards is really, really short. That is inside hand grenade range. Unless you are actually inside buildings or REALLY dense jungle, 40 yards is way too short a distance.

Here is my Para army, it's made up of half a FoW paratrooper company box, the FoW Easy Company pack for flavor and a few additional Battlefront Models. All together about $50 worth of models.

What do the different colors on the base edges signify?

Unit distinction, the color on the models right is the squad type and the color on the models left is the squad it belongs to. Blue is Veteran Infantry (Veteran Paratroopers), Red is Ranger (Pathfinders) and Green is Paratroopers. Yellow is first squad Purple is second squad.

The OPer inspired me to do Bolt Action in 15mm I've had some Japanese sitting around for years in hopes of Mid or late war FOW rules but here they are now converting for Bolt Action!!

I'm very happy that some of you have decided to take the 15mm path! It is very easy on the wallet , needs little time to assemble and paint, and requires much less space.

Our latest games have been played on a 3x4 board. After a massive weekend long 3000 point battle we scaled our weekday games down to 750 points. Its amazing how well the game works on a spectrum of point levels. I thought that a 3x4 would be too small but it has worked out quite well. I'm confident that up to a 1000 points could be played on it with ease.

@Darkwind.Thanks for the pics. Now you need some Marines to defend the island from!

And some pics. The 3x4 board, my small American Airborne army, and a Plastic Soldier Company Panzer IV ausf F2









Thanks again for the replies and please share any 15mm bolt action stuff you are doing with us.

Don't worry the USMC is on it's way as we speek

I hope to have some pics of games soon!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Do you know if Bolt Action has rules for the Chinese currently? I would like to do Second Sino-Japanese War if they have the rules to support it.

Great we'd love to see some pics.

And no I'm pretty certain that there isn't any rules for chinese at the moment, but considering the fair pace that warlord is publishing supplements and that the less known axis powers recently got a book, I would say it could be a possibility in the future.

I started working on some 15mm Bolt Action armies about a week ago with my excess Germans, Italians, and Americans after seeing this thread, but have ran into a problem with storage.

I can't think of anything that would store my finished troops safely, as being based on pennies makes them too small for foam or my storage method for FoW. Any ideas?

15mm Bolt Action seems a really good idea, I'm not really into WW2 games but a small skirmish game like this looks really fun.

I've found that a small cardboard box with a piece of foam laid over the top that gets pressed down when the lid is closed works pretty well.


If anyone has a 15mm army based individually post up some pictures and show us what you got!

Here are some speed painted 15mm PSC Yanks for the Battlegroup rules, not bolt action, actually for intro games at shows...

Yeah I'm liking these. Can't wait to get my hands on some battlegroup rules and a box of the "next gen" psc British infantry. Are they available to purchase yet?

The British have been out a while...

Those Next Gen British look really nice, I'd like to seem more Next Gen sculpts in the future. While we are talking about new mins anyone got any leads on Fallschirmjager stg 44s and or US Infantry/Paratrooper B.A.R. Blisters?

I can't think of anything that would store my finished troops safely, as being based on pennies makes them too small for foam or my storage method for FoW. Any ideas?

I store mine in old video tape boxes with strips of magnitic tape glued to the bottom of the inside to secure the pennies in place. All pennies post about 1992 will be attracted to magnets. The boxes themselves can be found in any charity show for about 20p, just chuck the tape away (unless you want to watch it that is).

I got magnetic sheets from the dollar store and sorted my pennies based on whether or not they stuck to the magnets. Then I got sewing/bead containers from a craft store and cut up thin blister type foam to go on top of the 15mm miniatures (not that they need it with the magnets, but just to be sure).

Well, its too late for magnets now, almost half of my army is based on pre-1990 pennies...

@ strombones - the painting on your minis is great.

Also, many thanks for the coat-hanger hedgerows! Great idea!

Nice work here. I bought a couple of boxes of BF figures (SS Panzergrenadiers and Paras) specifically to try out 15mm Bolt Action, but haven't gotten around to.. anything yet.

Still, it's on the list, and threads like this just make me inspired to get something started!


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 Strombones wrote:

Also we love bolt action at 15mm. But we also have to admit that the patrol phase jump off point that we stole
from toofatlardies is half the fun and changes the game completely.

This intrigues me. Which of their rulesets is it from? They have a few on their site...

@ Scott. Thank you sir. I was pretty smug myself when I thought of it. If you are going to make some I would suggest covering the bushes with watered down PVA after the first round of gluing to the wire. Should harden them up a bit and extend their life span.

@Azazelx. The rule set is called Chain of Command. I have yet to actually play it but I have heard some good things about it. They have a multipart series on youtube explaining it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiT70m6CJO8

For the latest update on our 15mm Bolt Action gaming, dj0311dj and I have started a game pitting two TO&E'd platoons against each other.

1 Army Airborne paratrooper platoon vs. 1 Panzergrenadier platoon. No tanks, no Divisional support, no frills. All weapons, squad sizes ect.. as historically accurate as possible. It has been a blast so far.

It started on Monday but it is only on turn 2 at the moment due to a significant interruption of alcohol and USMC reminiscing.

Houses are 4ground 15mm.

Having watched BA played in 28mm and thinking it was too large, playing it in 15mm is such a great idea!

I have a ton of FOW Afrika Korps that I'll never assemble as a complete FOW army, this would be a great use for them. Is there a supplement for DAK? I don't see them in the main rulebook.

The Armies of Germany supplement has a thearter selector for DAK. The Armies of books have additional units, special rules and thearter selecters. The basic units are roughly the same as the main rulebook with some point and composition changes. The thearter selecters are alternate force organization charts that are more appropriate for specific thearters and timeframes.

Some shots of my Soviets WIP

a few more



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Sorry, I'm not very sure why some of the pics are coming out sideways

Last One

Those are looking really good. Too bad your not around here. I'm sure Strombones would like to throw his Germans at them.

Thank you!! They recently got schooled by some Germans this past Friday

I like the nice contrast between the high and low points. I don't know if I missed it, but who makes these characterful minis?

These Russians are awesome. Makes me want to start collecting some eastern front terrain.

Thank you Strombones!!! gotta love the Soviets! I have altered my army comp to include a KV-1 instead of a T-34 and I added a BA-10.. of course I had to drop a few guys here and there but its still a horde!

Frozenwastes, these are Battlefronts russians in great coats. I think a good alternative is also the Plastic Soldier Company.
I saw a box of their Germans in 15mm that was $26USD for 139 infantry at a shop in Austin, TX .. my tanks are Zvezda btw. its hard to pass up a tank for $4!

Love your stuff, what scale of tanks are you using for your 15mm tanks?

They are all 15mm in scale. I'm not sure what brand of tanks Strombones uses, mine are zvezda

I would prefer 1/72 scale myself, but this still looks like a great alternate way to play.

Yeah 1/72nd or 20mm would be cool as well.. I think the 15mm market for ww2 infantry is better tho.. However I cannot say I have looked much for 1/72nd ww2 infantry

Strombones is using primarily Battlefront miniatures 15mm (flames of war) supplemented with peter pig 15mm and his PzIV is from Plastic Soldier Company's 15mm range. Mine are also Battlefront supplemented with Peter Pig and Plastic Soldier Company.

Check out the Battlegroup Overlord AAR report by Strombones to see more of our collections up close.

I need to get a copy of that so I can make my soviets pull double duty

It's a really great rule set, Bolt Action actually lead us to battlegroup. Force organization is much more realistic and the rules have more depth IMHO.

Masses more WW2 stuff available in 20mm and 1/72 than 15mm...

Big P wrote:
Masses more WW2 stuff available in 20mm and 1/72 than 15mm...

Yep, plastic soldier do a huge range of ww2 stuff at great prices.

I bought a box of the 15mm Plastic Soldier Company Germans and a box of Soviets around when Bolt Action came out. I also got a few Zvezda tanks and a couple Flames of War tanks for things not available in plastic. The price on the PSC infantry was outstanding, but overall I would rate them as being uninspired. The detail is really shallow. I've partially painted half the Germans but I'm totally not into them and thinking of selling them and switching to another manufacturer. They're perfectly serviceable and there's nothing actually wrong with them, but I want something more like Peter Pig. Or I might switch to 1/72.

The plastic infantry that battlefront is putting out is very nice but a bit pricey, it also needs to be supplemented a bit as there are no BARs available in the US stuff and it's really made for Flame of war's basing method.

I decided to keep my PSC Infantry.

I went to a nearby hobby shop (think model tanks, cars, dinosaurs and science toys) to get my 1/32 (54mm) horse & musket project started. At their counter they had all the 1/100 Zvezda WW2 kits ready for impulse buys. I got some trucks and a KV2 and a Stug. While I was thinking of selling my PSC Infantry and getting some Peter Pig or Battlefront, I do already have them. And they are primed and ready for painting. So I'm going to keep them, paint them and get playing. I just got the PDF version of Chain of Command as well.

When I got home I realized I never actually bought my 18th century figures. I was so excited to see all the 1/100 tank kits that I just left them off to the right of the cash register and they never got rung up. And then I left.

But I have tanks!

Haha yeah man. 5 dollar tanks in this day and age can't be passed up! I've looked thru chain of command. I've never played but t looks pretty fun, and I'm pretty sure it can accommodate 1/100th. I'm interested in what your thoughts are on the rules I you ever get it up and running.

You guys talked me into buying the Open Fire! Starter set. I got a lot of stuff on my plate ( BA army, Hail Caesar Starter Set, Bolt Action Starter Set). Hopefully these will be a quicker paint job. Looks great.

I have soviets and germans, but once they're painted, I'm going to get the new Battlefront plastic platoons with infantry and transports. Though Open Fire! certainly looks interesting in terms of a good amount of nice 15mm plastics in one go.

I'm finding that pretty much every 28mm skirmish game can just be used substituting 15mm with little or not changes. Usually weapon ranges look a lot better with 15mm miniatures on the table.

I've got the battlefront plastic armored infantry platoon and can vouche that they are indeed very nice. They are the same poses of the plastic paratroopers from open fire but wearing infantry uniforms. My only complaint is that they have no BARs.

Peter Pig makes packs of 8 BAR armed troopers in 3 poses:



http://www.peterpig.co.uk/us.htm

Shipping starts at £4.50 so if I ever order from them, I'll probably get a decent variety of stuff. It's a long way away though, as I still have 200+ infantry and 10+ vehicles to paint for my germans and soviets.

 frozenwastes wrote:
I have soviets and germans, but once they're painted, I'm going to get the new Battlefront plastic platoons with infantry and transports. Though Open Fire! certainly looks interesting in terms of a good amount of nice 15mm plastics in one go.

I'm finding that pretty much every 28mm skirmish game can just be used substituting 15mm with little or not changes. Usually weapon ranges look a lot better with 15mm miniatures on the table.

I think dj0311 has a few of those Peter pig BAR guys. He gave me a few assault rifle grenadiers from PP as well and man do they look fantastic.
I've always been a plastics over metals guy, but some of these metals companies are changing my mind on this.

I still gotta say however that Battlefront's plastic infantry are hard to beat. There are a few people that sell open fire! Sprues as singles on eBay if you don't want the whole box. I think its from Pirate Pat's Games.

I gotta agree with the 15mm conversion. even though we play Battlegroup exclusively at the moment, which is designed for 15 to 20, I think converting any 28 mm game is really easy. Will be looking Foward to see how you apply Chain of Command to 15.

 Strombones wrote:
I think dj0311 has a few of those Peter pig BAR guys. He gave me a few assault rifle grenadiers from PP as well and man do they look fantastic.
I've always been a plastics over metals guy, but some of these metals companies are changing my mind on this.

I have a few Flames of War things I got on sale here and there and definitely prefer my plastic vehicles to their resin and metal ones, but for the infantry, I'm open to both.

I still gotta say however that Battlefront's plastic infantry are hard to beat. There are a few people that sell open fire! Sprues as singles on eBay if you don't want the whole box. I think its from Pirate Pat's Games.

I did some searching around. Looks like the people on eBay breaking up the FoW starter will only ship to Canada using priority. Not really interested in paying $15 to ship a single tank.

I think I remember reading somewhere that Armoured Infantry units didn't use the BAR. The 30cals fulfilled the role the BAR did in rifle companies.

I think you're right about that. The lack of BARs though means you need to grab some for when you do them as regular infantry.

The 1943 field manual lists the standard M3A1 as carrying 12 guys, 1 SMG the rest garands, no BAR. In 1945, one BAR was added.

I wouldnt mind if people wanted to add a BAR to a squad here or there. They are kinda cool looking weapons after all and were used by all kinds of infantry, from Paras to Marines to good old GI's.In Battlegroup they are only ROF 2 anyway.

But I think Lucius is right. Mechanized infantry could carry .30cals and their ammo a lot easier and I think their TO&E reflected that.

so guys, what is all of your opinions on cost of 1/72 vs 15mm in regards to premade terrain? lets also factor in availablity.

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
so guys, what is all of your opinions on cost of 1/72 vs 15mm in regards to premade terrain? lets also factor in availablity.

I am a functioning 4ground addict. Their 15mm houses are readily available from eBay retailers and run about 20 bucks a piece for a small row house. Maybe a bit pricy for some.

I wish I had more 4ground.

 frozenwastes wrote:
Peter Pig makes packs of 8 BAR armed troopers in 3 poses:



http://www.peterpig.co.uk/us.htm

Shipping starts at £4.50 so if I ever order from them, I'll probably get a decent variety of stuff. It's a long way away though, as I still have 200+ infantry and 10+ vehicles to paint for my germans and soviets.

Essex also makes some pretty nice BAR gunners (though they call them Browning light machineguns)

http://www.essexminiatures.co.uk/collections/15mm-world-war-ii-american







I like them better then the PP ones.

The Essex ones do look good. I won't be putting an order in for BARs until after my Soviet and German companies are done, but I'll keep them in mind. Back when I played DBA regularly, I had a bunch of Essex ancients and they were pretty good. Dated sculpting style, but their castings were high end.

i hope that you guys dont mind the questions but bolt action at 15mm has really piqued my interest. i was wondering if anyone knows why it seems that tanks in BA seem to have such a bad reputation and is it as bad as people make it out to be? playing in 15mm certainly opens up the door to include a lot more tanks. smaller, cheaper and they take a lot less room to use.

They are a lot of points and even the ones bristling with weapons rarely through out that many dice during a game. Their value goes up based on how many vehicles or other hard targets the opponent takes, but if you spend a couple turns with no good target and then whiff on some die rolls, they can feel like a total waste compared to the same points spent on infantry.

I've been playing Bolt Action in 15mm for quite a while now. I generally play on a 6x4 table and keep all measurements in inches as it does look a lot more realistic. Here's one of my games in progress-



I tend to do early war and I'm currently building up all the forces I need to do Operation Seelowe games.

I love those teddy bear fur fields!

Gotta echo Easy E: those look awesome! Especially the "trails" that are left behind from the vehicles.

May have to trade out my jute sisal mat "cropfields" for teddy bear fur, looks awesome.

I am waiting for m friend to send me the pics from our game this past monday. We played an envelopment scenario with my russians trying to tackle the german menace! However things did not go to plan so well.. it took a meager 3 and a half turns for my soviets to be annihilated.. my bad dice rolling with his unbelievable meant that I killed 1 hanomag and three grenadiers, and he wiped my force out to the man.. I had a ba-10 alive but immobilized and a kv-1 on fire.. sheesh.. I had a blast despite this but dang!!!!

Tried a mini game in 15mm using cm instead of inches, the playing area is 3'x2'...

Sorry guys. Been a bit since I messed with my historicals.. I was introduced to the devil... aka Infinity! Its a great game actually. That said how has everyones BA 15mm Been going?

I've been tempted away by horse & musket era stuff and have only played one game since my last post on the subject. I did however, end up trying some new weathering techniques using oil paints and am really liking the results.



Needs a bit of cleanup and work on the tracks and gun barrel, but close to done. It's one of Zvezda's cheap 1/100 plastic KV2s.

I've got to get some of that teddy bear fur that Mick A uses. That just looks great.

.

That KV is beautiful!

The process is just a coat of the russian green, a dry brush with a bone colour (you can see that without any weathering on the gun barrel and the wheels inside the treads) followed by some sponging on of paint chips in a very dark grey. Then a coat of gloss varnish (very light) and then the classic dot filtering method scale modellers use. Then the areas where the paint is scraping off got shaded with a pencil to make them shinier.

Basically you paint multiple tiny dots of different oil colours and then take a thinner damped brush and brush in the direction that water might flow off the tank until all the dots blend together as an indistinct filter.

After that's fully dry, I varnished again. Then I went back and did raw sienna and ocher oil dots for rust here and there.

My KVs are ones that were produced in '39-41 and managed to stick around into the later war, so I'm weathering the crap out of them.

Those fields look incredible. Going to have to try that whenever I get around to making some terrain.

I've got so many loose figures for my Germans and Brits in FOW that I'm going to have to give this a go. Looks so much more, I don't know, "cinematic" on the table, and is more portable to boot!

Plus it lets me have a ton of little skirmish armies for dirt cheap and the vehicles can pull double duty.

 frozenwastes wrote:
My KVs are ones that were produced in '39-41 and managed to stick around into the later war, so I'm weathering the crap out of them.

Interesting comment - I didn't know any KV-2's lasted into1942 (not saying they didn't, just thought they all got knocked out during the initial months of Barbarossa). I like your weathering effects, although it does make the tank look pretty ancient. I think that once you've gone for this level of 'realism' in terms of painting, you probably have to add things like stowage to complete to picture. And I hope the gun barrel is drilled out!

I have no idea if the tanks actually did survive to that late. I know KV-1s were around until late 1943, but I have no idea about the KV-2s. I guess if one shows up in one of my games set later than 1942, they will in my alt-history version of WW2

I did some checking, and apparently virtually all of them were lost by the end of 1941. A few survived in German hands; they were going to use them to invade Malta, but ended up sending them back against the Soviets in 1942. One even made it through to 1945, where it was knocked out defending the Krupp plant.

New to this site; fairly new to Bolt Action.....currently running Chindits; played them for the first time today....lost, but had fun.

I have amassed a respectable collection of FoW miniatures over several years, but have seldom played.

I intend to use my 15mm minis for home games; we have an active, local 28mm group,and I have enough miniatures to keep playing that as well.

The 15mm miniatures will be particularly useful for Tank Wars.