Everyone a few days ago there was a post started by someone who was asking if the traitor legion primarchs should be forgiven for their actions. I wanted to elaborate on this topic into a bigger general one and im hoping those black library readers have the time to detail some of the facts who someone like me seems to lack.
I would of wanted a simple answering structure from what you currently know about the original primarchs and some of the mythical fluff ones where you label the number of the pimarchs legion/name and legion name (before and after they were turned). All the details possible how they died or who killed them including the unknown or missing ones.
Hope to have a good read of some of your replies very soon
VII Legion - Imperial Fists - Dorn - Unknow to be dead or alive, but presumed dead. They only found his hands.
X Legion - Iron Hands - Ferus Manus - Killed by Fulgrim and the Laer blade (Beheaded right?).
I Legion - Dark Angels - Lion El'Jonson - Mortally wounded by Luther. Put into the Rock in stasis. Luther imprisoned deep inside the Rock to. So yeah they're both inside of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwayne_Johnson
I - Lion El'Jonson - Alive, sleeping on the Rock.
II - Unknown - Any more inquiries will be dealt with by the Inquisition.
III - Fulgrim - Daemon Prince
IV - Perturabo - Daemon Prince
V - Jaghatai Khan - Last seen running around the Webway
VI - Leman Russ - last seen at a bar in Eye of Terror. Presumably still drinking.
VII - Rogal Dorn - Presumed dead during a Black Crusade
VIII - Konrad Curze - Assasinated by a Callidus assassin
IX - Sanguinius - Killed by Horus
X - Ferrus Manus - Killed by Fulgrim
XI - Unknown - Any more inquiries will be dealt with by the Inquisition.
XII - Angron - Daemon Prince
XIII - Roboute Guiliman - Moratlly wounded, in stasis, "healing"
XIV - Mortarion - Daemon Prince
XV - Magnus the Red - Daemon Prince
XVI - Horus Lupercal - body and spirit annihilated by the Emperor
XVII - Lorgar Aurelian - Damon Prince
XVIII - Vulkan - MIA
XIX - Corvus Corax - Last seen heading for the Eye of Terror (presumably to pull Russ' drunk rear out of the bar).
XX - Alpharius Omegon - One might be dead. But this is Alpha Legion, where everyone is Alpharius so who really knows.
They didn't all meet their end. Look it up on Lexicanum or the Warhammer Wiki if you really need the full scoop, I can't be bothered to describe 'em all.
I recall the surviving heretical primarchs became demon princes. I would personally classify that as 'A fate worse than death'.
Lion El'Jonson is alive. He's taking a nap but evidence suggests to me that he's just doing that to extend his lifespan, and he's able to wake up and go kickass with his Green Friends when he's really needed. He's probably waiting for something super-important to happen before waking up.
Everyone thinks Roboute Guiliman is slowly healing, but that's because they're a bunch of mystical dummies. As long as he's trapped inside a stasis field, he's experiencing tremendous pain. So I guess Roboute is still 'alive', but he's been in ball-crushing agony for the last 10,000 years and as soon as the stasis field goes away he'll die.
Leman Russ randomly decided to take a vacation into the Eye of Terror. You might think he's dead, but consider it like this: a lousy friggin' Grey Knight Terminator (Draigo) has managed to survive inside the Eye of Terror. A Primarch is far more kickass than any Grey Knight, and so I'm sure Russ is all right. Russ was also the only primarch who ever had an official non-forgeworld miniature made of him. Russ is awesome.
When the Empire starts really falling apart The Lion and Russ will suddenly appear, team up, and kickass across the galaxy. It's been forseen.
Mysterious Pants - Russ is more than alright. He went into the Eye, entered the bar he saw and has been drinking ever since. Due to his refusal to leave (and as a Primarch he is kickass enough that the Daemon proprietors can't (or won't) kick him out), Corax went in to pull him out.
Happyjew wrote: Mysterious Pants - Russ is more than alright. He went into the Eye, entered the bar he saw and has been drinking ever since. Due to his refusal to leave (and as a Primarch he is kickass enough that the Daemon proprietors can't (or won't) kick him out), Corax went in to pull him out.
Damn straight.
All the smart Primarchs went scarce right after the heresy, so that they could be around for the big schbang at the end times. The ones that lingered around doing stuff wound up killed in surprisingly stupid ways.
Leman Russ left Fenris for one last "hurrah", feeling that the end of his mortal life was drawing nigh, and telling the Space Wolves that he'd be back for the Wolf Time.
Led by Luther, the man who raised Jonson after he was found on Caliban, the Dark Angels left behind on Caliban by Jonson rebelled against him during the Heresy. Jonson fought the traitors in a climactic battle and duelled against Luther himself. Luther mortally wounded Jonson, but at that moment he realised that he had been deceived and how far he had fallen. The Chaos Gods, realising they had lost, sent a Warp Storm that tore Caliban apart. Luther was imprisoned by the Dark Angels, but Jonson seemed to have dissapeared. Unknown to the Dark Angels however, Jonson survived and lies in stasis in the heart of the Rock.
II.
Spoiler:
RECORDS EXPUNGED
III. Fulgrim, Emperor's Children.
Spoiler:
Together with his brother Perturabo, Fulgrim set out to find the Angel Exterminatus, a weapon that could tip the balance of the Heresy in Horus' favour, on the Eldar crone world of Iydris. There, Fulgrim revealed that the Angel Exterminatus did not exist, but that he himself was to become such a weapon by achieving deamonhood. Perturabo attempted to attack Fulgrim, but Fulgrim used a trick to drain him of his power. However, as Fulgrim neared the completion of his ritual, he was interrupted by attacking Salamanders, Iron Hands and Raven Guard, who had followed Fulgrim in search of vengeance for the Drop Site Massacre. During the battle, the loyalist Astartes destroyed the device that Fulgrim used to keep Perturabo in check, and Perturabo struck down Fulgrim with his thunder hammer; destroying Fulgrim's body. However, Fulgrim achieved deamonhood and was reborn as a deamon prince of Slaanesh.
IV. Perturabo, Iron Warriors.
Spoiler:
After the Heresy, Perturabo set up an ambush for the surviving Imperial Fists, with whom the Iron Warriors had a fierce, hateful rivalry. The trap was known as the Eternal Fortress. The Imperial Fists, wanting to capture Perturabo, fell for this trap and assaulted the fortress. However, the fortress was just a decoy surrounded by twenty miles of defences and killing grounds, and the assault went very wrong. The nightmarish siege lasted for three weeks before the Ultramarines arrived as reinforcements and with their support the Imperial Fists managed to drive the Iron Warriors away. However, so many Imperial Fists had been killed that they were unable to fight for 19 years after the incident and their Primarch, Rogal Dorn was left a broken man. Perturabo sacrificed the geneseed of 400 Imperial Fists to the Dark Gods and for this he was rewarded with deamonhood.
V. Jaghatai Khan, White Scars.
Spoiler:
Some time after the Heresy, Jaghatai Khan went on a crusade to rescue some of his warriors who were captured by the Dark Eldar. He never returned. It is unkown what exactly happened to him. It is likely that his ship was lost in the Warp, as the area of space he travelled through was known to be dangerous.
VI. Leman Russ, Space Wolves.
Spoiler:
He was one of the last Primarchs to disappear. Years after the Heresy, during a great feast with his Astartes, Russ suddenly stood up, told the Space Wolves he would return for the End of Times, and left. Together with his personal retinue, Russ went into the Eye of Terror and has never been seen again.
VII. Rogal Dorn, Imperial Fists.
Spoiler:
Years after the Iron Cage incident, Rogal Dorn went missing during a Black Crusade, after leading a desperate boarding assault on the bridge of the traitor-battleship Sword of Sacrilege. The only thing recovered was his hand.
VIII. Konrad Curze, Night Lords.
Spoiler:
After the Heresy, the Night Lords did not splinter like the other legions, but continued to attack the Imperium in force. The Imperium dispatched half the Callidus Assasin Temple to get rid of Curze and put an end to the Night Lord's onslaught. Curze had by then lost his sanity. Curze was killed (or rather, allowed himself to be killed) by the Callidus assasin M'Shen. After hunting down and killing the assasin, the Night Lords splintered into small warbands.
IX. Sanguinius, Blood Angels.
Spoiler:
During the Battle of Terra, Sanguinius teleported to Horus' flagship, together with the Emperor. They became seperated however and Sanguinius was the first to encounter Horus. Sanguinius spoke with his brother and friend and tried to get him back to the Emperor's side. Horus disagreed however, and tried to persuade Sanguinius to come over to his side instead. Eventually, they came to blows and Sanguinius was struck down and killed by Horus. The only damage Sanguinius managed to do back was a small chink in Horus' armour. However, it is said that it is through this chink that the Emperor managed to defeat Horus.
X. Ferrus Manus, Iron Hands.
Spoiler:
Ferrus Manus was killed during the Drop Site Massacre. Fulgrim had tried to persuade his best friend Ferrus to come over to his side, but he failed. However, as Fulgrim fled, he immobilised most of the Iron Hand's fleet. Taking only a small bodyguard of elite warriors with him, Ferrus pursued Fulgrim to Istvaan. During the Drop Site Massacre on Istvaan, Ferrus Manus charged Fulgrim and they duelled. Fulgrim did not intend to kill his friend, but the deamon blade he used forced him to, and Ferrus was decapitated. Fulgrim was distraught at the fact that his brother had been killed by his hands, and he eventually gave in to the whispers of Chaos to ease the paint.
XI.
Spoiler:
RECORDS EXPUNGED
XII. Angron, World Eaters.
Spoiler:
Angron, having little love for the Emperor, was quick to join Horus. Angron played an important role in the battles of the Horus Heresy, and was gifted with deamonhood when he reached the Eye of Terror after the Heresy.
XIII. Roboute Guilliman, Ultramarines.
Spoiler:
Guilliman met his end years after the Heresy in battle against the Emperor's Children. Guilliman was stabbed in the neck with a poisonous blade by the Deamon Primarch Fulgrim. The Ultramarine's apothecaries interred him in a stasis field, and there he remains, frozen in the instant before death.
XIV. Mortarion, Death Guard.
Spoiler:
During the Heresy, Mortarion and his entire legion were trapped in a Warp storm while on their way to Terra. While trapped there, they were visited by the Destroyer, a plague that could not be resisted and was impossible to cure. The plague transformed them into bloated mutants, yet they did not die. Eventually, Mortarion could not suffer anymore and turned to the only one capable of ending his torment: Grandfather Nurgle. Nurgle responded and took the legion and its Primarch as his own. They emerged from the Warp as the first plague marines. After the Heresy, Mortarion went into the Eye of Terror where he claimed a world as his own. This became the Plague Planet, and he shaped it so well that Nurgle rewarded him with deamonhood.
XV. Magnus, Thousand Sons.
Spoiler:
Magnus attempted to warn the Emperor of Horus' treachery, using forbidden sorcery to contact him. This ruined the Emperor's Webway Project, and the Emperor send the Space Wolves to arrest Magnus and bring the Thousand Sons to justice. However, on his way to Prospero, Russ got new orders from Horus saying that the Emperor had changed his mind and that he wanted the Thousand Sons and Magnus exterminated instead. Russ, having no reason to distrust Horus went on with this and destroyed Prospero, the Thousand Son's homeworld. Magnus engaged Russ in personal combat, but just as Russ was about to strike the final blow, Magnus gave in to Tzeentch and he and the remains of his legion were teleported away. The next time Magnus was seen, he had become a Deamon Prince of Tzeentch.
XVI. Horus Lupercal, Luna Wolves, Sons of Horus (Black Legion).
Spoiler:
Horus was the leader of the Horus Heresy (obviously) and was killed by the Emperor himself when he besieged Terra. During the Siege of Terra, Horus, wanting to decide the fight before loyalist reinforcements could arrive, lowered the shields of his flagship, hoping to engage and kill the Emperor in personal combat. The Emperor and Sanguinius teleported aboard. Sanguinius was the first to find Horus and was slain. When the Emperor found Horus, he was standing over his brothers dead body. The Emperor and Horus fought, but the Emperor could not bring himself to killing his most beloved son, still hoping that he might somehow be redeemed. Horus gained the upper hand and almost slew the Emperor. However, he was interrupted by a lone Imperial soldier entering the room. Horus turned towards the poor sod and flayed him alive with a mere look. Seeing this happening, the Emperor realised that his son was now truly beyond redemption. He lashed out with all his psychic might and obliterated Horus' soul from existance. As the Dark Gods fled, the Emperor sensed his son's return to sanity for a fraction of a second before he finally died.
XVII. Lorgar Aurelian, Word Bearers.
Spoiler:
Lorgar and the Word Bearers were instrumental in the Horus Heresy, and eventually, Lorgar was gifted with deamonhood for the atrocities they committed.
XVIII. Vulkan, Salamanders.
Spoiler:
After the Heresy, Vulkan chose to leave the Salamanders. Like Leman Russ, he promised to return for the End Times. The Salamanders believe he will return once they have found all nine of his artifacts that are hidden across the galaxy.
XIX. Corvus Corax, Raven Guard.
Spoiler:
The Raven Guard suffered greatly in the Drop Zone Massacre. Corax tried to rebuild his legion using an experimental method. However, thanks to the schemes of the Alpha Legion, this horribly backfired and the new recruits were turned into horrible mutants instead. Corus was never able to forget about this horror, which he saw as his own fault, and wracked with guilt, he locked himself up. A year after, he suddenly departed for the Eye of Terror and has never been seen again. His last words were: never more.
XX. Alpharius Omegon, Alpha Legion.
Spoiler:
I am Alpharius! Alpharius was killed. Or was it Omegon? Or neither? Or both?
Led by Luther, the man who raised Jonson after he was found on Caliban, the Dark Angels left behind on Caliban by Jonson rebelled against him during the Heresy. Jonson fought the traitors in a climactic battle and duelled against Luther himself. Luther mortally wounded Jonson, but at that moment he realised that he had been deceived and how far he had fallen. The Chaos Gods, realising they had lost, sent a Warp Storm that tore Caliban apart. Luther was imprisoned by the Dark Angels, but Jonson seemed to have dissapeared.
Unknown to the Dark Angels however, Jonson survived and lies in stasis in the heart of the Rock.
II.
Spoiler:
RECORDS EXPUNGED
III. Fulgrim, Emperor's Children.
Spoiler:
Together with his brother Perturabo, Fulgrim set out to find the Angel Exterminatus, a weapon that could tip the balance of the Heresy in Horus' favour, on the Eldar crone world of Iydris. There, Fulgrim revealed that the Angel Exterminatus did not exist, but that he himself was to become such a weapon by achieving deamonhood. Perturabo attempted to attack Fulgrim, but Fulgrim used a trick to drain him of his power. However, as Fulgrim neared the completion of his ritual, he was interrupted by attacking Salamanders, Iron Hands and Raven Guard, who had followed Fulgrim in search of vengeance for the Drop Site Massacre. During the battle, the loyalist Astartes destroyed the device that Fulgrim used to keep Perturabo in check, and Perturabo struck down Fulgrim with his thunder hammer; destroying Fulgrim's body. However, Fulgrim achieved deamonhood and was reborn as a deamon prince of Slaanesh.
IV. Perturabo, Iron Warriors.
Spoiler:
After the Heresy, Perturabo set up an ambush for the surviving Imperial Fists, with whom the Iron Warriors had a fierce, hateful rivalry. The trap was known as the Eternal Fortress. The Imperial Fists, wanting to capture Perturabo, fell for this trap and assaulted the fortress. However, the fortress was just a decoy surrounded by twenty miles of defences and killing grounds, and the assault went very wrong. The nightmarish siege lasted for three weeks before the Ultramarines arrived as reinforcements and with their support the Imperial Fists managed to drive the Iron Warriors away. However, so many Imperial Fists had been killed that they were unable to fight for 19 years after the incident and their Primarch, Rogal Dorn was left a broken man. Perturabo sacrificed the geneseed of 400 Imperial Fists to the Dark Gods and for this he was rewarded with deamonhood.
V. Jaghatai Khan, White Scars.
Spoiler:
Some time after the Heresy, Jaghatai Khan went on a crusade to rescue some of his warriors who were captured by the Dark Eldar. He never returned.
It is unkown what exactly happened to him. It is likely that his ship was lost in the Warp, as the area of space he travelled through was known to be dangerous.
VI. Leman Russ, Space Wolves.
Spoiler:
He was one of the last Primarchs to disappear. Years after the Heresy, during a great feast with his Astartes, Russ suddenly stood up, told the Space Wolves he would return for the End of Times, and left. Together with his personal retinue, Russ went into the Eye of Terror and has never been seen again.
VII. Rogal Dorn, Imperial Fists.
Spoiler:
Years after the Iron Cage incident, Rogal Dorn went missing during a Black Crusade, after leading a desperate boarding assault on the bridge of the traitor-battleship Sword of Sacrilege. The only thing recovered was his hand.
VIII. Konrad Curze, Night Lords.
Spoiler:
After the Heresy, the Night Lords did not splinter like the other legions, but continued to attack the Imperium in force. The Imperium dispatched half the Callidus Assasin Temple to get rid of Curze and put an end to the Night Lord's onslaught. Curze had by then lost his sanity.
Curze was killed (or rather, allowed himself to be killed) by the Callidus assasin M'Shen. After hunting down and killing the assasin, the Night Lords splintered into small warbands.
IX. Sanguinius, Blood Angels.
Spoiler:
During the Battle of Terra, Sanguinius teleported to Horus' flagship, together with the Emperor. They became seperated however and Sanguinius was the first to encounter Horus. Sanguinius spoke with his brother and friend and tried to get him back to the Emperor's side. Horus disagreed however, and tried to persuade Sanguinius to come over to his side instead. Eventually, they came to blows and Sanguinius was struck down and killed by Horus. The only damage Sanguinius managed to do back was a small chink in Horus' armour. However, it is said that it is through this chink that the Emperor managed to defeat Horus.
X. Ferrus Manus, Iron Hands.
Spoiler:
Ferrus Manus was killed during the Drop Site Massacre. Fulgrim had tried to persuade his best friend Ferrus to come over to his side, but he failed. However, as Fulgrim fled, he immobilised most of the Iron Hand's fleet. Taking only a small bodyguard of elite warriors with him, Ferrus pursued Fulgrim to Istvaan. During the Drop Site Massacre on Istvaan, Ferrus Manus charged Fulgrim and they duelled. Fulgrim did not intend to kill his friend, but the deamon blade he used forced him to, and Ferrus was decapitated. Fulgrim was distraught at the fact that his brother had been killed by his hands, and he eventually gave in to the whispers of Chaos to ease the paint.
XI.
Spoiler:
RECORDS EXPUNGED
XII. Angron, World Eaters.
Spoiler:
Angron, having little love for the Emperor, was quick to join Horus. Angron played an important role in the battles of the Horus Heresy, and was gifted with deamonhood when he reached the Eye of Terror after the Heresy.
XIII. Roboute Guilliman, Ultramarines.
Spoiler:
Guilliman met his end years after the Heresy in battle against the Emperor's Children. Guilliman was stabbed in the neck with a poisonous blade by the Deamon Primarch Fulgrim.
The Ultramarine's apothecaries interred him in a stasis field, and there he remains, frozen in the instant before death.
XIV. Mortarion, Death Guard.
Spoiler:
During the Heresy, Mortarion and his entire legion were trapped in a Warp storm while on their way to Terra. While trapped there, they were visited by the Destroyer, a plague that could not be resisted and was impossible to cure. The plague transformed them into bloated mutants, yet they did not die. Eventually, Mortarion could not suffer anymore and turned to the only one capable of ending his torment: Grandfather Nurgle. Nurgle responded and took the legion and its Primarch as his own. They emerged from the Warp as the first plague marines.
After the Heresy, Mortarion went into the Eye of Terror where he claimed a world as his own. This became the Plague Planet, and he shaped it so well that Nurgle rewarded him with deamonhood.
XV. Magnus, Thousand Sons.
Spoiler:
Magnus attempted to warn the Emperor of Horus' treachery, using forbidden sorcery to contact him. This ruined the Emperor's Webway Project, and the Emperor send the Space Wolves to arrest Magnus and bring the Thousand Sons to justice. However, on his way to Prospero, Russ got new orders from Horus saying that the Emperor had changed his mind and that he wanted the Thousand Sons and Magnus exterminated instead. Russ, having no reason to distrust Horus went on with this and destroyed Prospero, the Thousand Son's homeworld. Magnus engaged Russ in personal combat, but just as Russ was about to strike the final blow, Magnus gave in to Tzeentch and he and the remains of his legion were teleported away. The next time Magnus was seen, he had become a Deamon Prince of Tzeentch.
XVI. Horus Lupercal, Luna Wolves, Sons of Horus (Black Legion).
Spoiler:
Horus was the leader of the Horus Heresy (obviously) and was killed by the Emperor himself when he besieged Terra. During the Siege of Terra, Horus, wanting to decide the fight before loyalist reinforcements could arrive, lowered the shields of his flagship, hoping to engage and kill the Emperor in personal combat. The Emperor and Sanguinius teleported aboard. Sanguinius was the first to find Horus and was slain. When the Emperor found Horus, he was standing over his brothers dead body. The Emperor and Horus fought, but the Emperor could not bring himself to killing his most beloved son, still hoping that he might somehow be redeemed. Horus gained the upper hand and almost slew the Emperor. However, he was interrupted by a lone Imperial soldier entering the room. Horus turned towards the poor sod and flayed him alive with a mere look. Seeing this happening, the Emperor realised that his son was now truly beyond redemption. He lashed out with all his psychic might and obliterated Horus' soul from existance. As the Dark Gods fled, the Emperor sensed his son's return to sanity for a fraction of a second before he finally died.
XVII. Lorgar Aurelian, Word Bearers.
Spoiler:
Lorgar and the Word Bearers were instrumental in the Horus Heresy, and eventually, Lorgar was gifted with deamonhood for the atrocities they committed.
XVIII. Vulkan, Salamanders.
Spoiler:
After the Heresy, Vulkan chose to leave the Salamanders. Like Leman Russ, he promised to return for the End Times. The Salamanders believe he will return once they have found all nine of his artifacts that are hidden across the galaxy.
XIX. Corvus Corax, Raven Guard.
Spoiler:
The Raven Guard suffered greatly in the Drop Zone Massacre. Corax tried to rebuild his legion using an experimental method. However, thanks to the schemes of the Alpha Legion, this horribly backfired and the new recruits were turned into horrible mutants instead.
Corus was never able to forget about this horror, which he saw as his own fault, and wracked with guilt, he locked himself up. A year after, he suddenly departed for the Eye of Terror and has never been seen again. His last words were: never more.
XX. Alpharius Omegon, Alpha Legion.
Spoiler:
I am Alpharius! Alpharius was killed. Or was it Omegon? Or neither? Or both?
Thanks a million for this detailed post as it covered everything.
These 2 legions which have no record are interesting. Where they found by the emperor during the crusade or not? I guess these are 2 open spaces for GW to add a new legion in the future??
How about legends of primarchs not connected to the original 20? Are there or I'd there any speculations of other legions not officially recorded to of existed??
Johnson and Guilliman are in the same situation no matter how much fanboy bias gets thrown in. Both are held in stasis at the point of death. How some people arrive at "Johnson will live but Girlyman will die LOLOL" mystifies me.
Irrational hatred of Ultramarines is what I would chalk it up to.
40k fiction is incredibly malleable and can change drastically from one codex or novel to the next. I wouldn't be surprised if Games Workshop were to rework Konrad Curze death since it's obviously just Apocalypse now. Curze (Colonel Kurtz) being killed by M'Shen (Michael Sheen).
As for the two expunged legions there are passing mentions of them in the Horus Heresy series of novels. Apparently they were long gone even before the Great Crusade kicked off. Something real bad, or tragic, happened there and not even the Primarchs want to talk about it amongst themselves.
During 13th black crusade Russ n his guys where suspected of going in and wrecking the chaos joint with lost 13th company.
But the timeline moved pre so guess that's no longer fact. Its too cool to have a loyalist primarch deciding to take fight to chaos in defence of impirium
Do you think that GW will introduce these legions in the future? Or does the fluff suggest these chapters were obliterated because of this something bad happening? It's a bit confusing and makes me wonder why have the story missing 2 from the 20 if you had real no plans for them??
kerikhaos wrote: Do you think that GW will introduce these legions in the future? Or does the fluff suggest these chapters were obliterated because of this something bad happening? It's a bit confusing and makes me wonder why have the story missing 2 from the 20 if you had real no plans for them??
Theyre for fan Legions. Realistically they cant make anything satisfactory for most people at this point anyway imo.
kerikhaos wrote: Do you think that GW will introduce these legions in the future? Or does the fluff suggest these chapters were obliterated because of this something bad happening? It's a bit confusing and makes me wonder why have the story missing 2 from the 20 if you had real no plans for them??
Is there any info to what may of happened that was so bad for everyone primarchs and emperor to never speak of the incident? Means they must of interacted at done point?
No, not really. It is purposefully kept mysterious. They are referenced from time to time in the Horus Heresy books, and there are a few bits of speculation as to their fate, but nothing concrete. I doubt Games Workshop would ever tell that story. Keeping it mysterious is what makes them interesting.
He was tortured repeatedly by Kurze and basically lost his mind. John Grammaticus stabbed him with the Emperor's Fulgarite Spear, which is basically a physical manifestation of the Emperor's power. The implication is that this act will restore his sanity. The Spear becomes lodged and Vulkan does not come back to life as he normally would, being a Perpetual and functionally immortal.
He body, complete with Fulgarite Spear is placed in a coffin marked with the words "The Unbound Flame". The Unbound Flame is one of the 9 artifacts that the Salamanders are looking for as spoken of in the Tome of Fire. They have no idea that this "artifact" is their Primarch's body. Presumably, when the artifacts are gathered and Vulkan's body is recovered, the Spear will be removed and he will return to life with his sanity restored. At least, that's what the Tome of Fire says. Collect all the artifacts and Vulkan returns. The Forgefathers... Vulkan Haestan in the currect 'dex... are tasked with finding the artifacts and therefore causing Vulkan to return.
In other words, not only is Vulkan not dead, but he has had a fair amount of storyline progression compared to most other Primarchs of late!
The 2 missing legions have, historically, been referred to as "The Lost" and "The Purged". Their fates, their actions, the names of the Primarchs they were based on, or who may have lead them, or any other details has never been published by GW.
It is, basically, a way for your home-brew Chapters to have a history dating back to the GC without needing to be associated with any of the known Legions or Chapters.
He was tortured repeatedly by Kurze and basically lost his mind. John Grammaticus stabbed him with the Emperor's Fulgarite Spear, which is basically a physical manifestation of the Emperor's power. The implication is that this act will restore his sanity. The Spear becomes lodged and Vulkan does not come back to life as he normally would, being a Perpetual and functionally immortal.
He body, complete with Fulgarite Spear is placed in a coffin marked with the words "The Unbound Flame". The Unbound Flame is one of the 9 artifacts that the Salamanders are looking for as spoken of in the Tome of Fire. They have no idea that this "artifact" is their Primarch's body. Presumably, when the artifacts are gathered and Vulkan's body is recovered, the Spear will be removed and he will return to life with his sanity restored. At least, that's what the Tome of Fire says. Collect all the artifacts and Vulkan returns. The Forgefathers... Vulkan Haestan in the currect 'dex... are tasked with finding the artifacts and therefore causing Vulkan to return.
In other words, not only is Vulkan not dead, but he has had a fair amount of storyline progression compared to most other Primarchs of late!
Yep, Correct. Vulkan is alive. And he is much needed now more than ever.
tgjensen wrote: No, not really. It is purposefully kept mysterious. They are referenced from time to time in the Horus Heresy books, and there are a few bits of speculation as to their fate, but nothing concrete. I doubt Games Workshop would ever tell that story. Keeping it mysterious is what makes them interesting.
Indeed, every good story needs some mystery. Some small hints and mentions are dropped every now and then, but I doubt we will ever get a complete picture. Personally, I think it is for the best. Their mysteriousness is what makes the Missing Legions so interesting.
From what I know about them, they were already gone before the Heresy. It has been hinted that the Space Wolves had some hand in the dissapearance of those Legions and that it is why they are nicknamed 'The Emperor's Executioners'. Also, in Horus Heresy: Massacre, there is a timeline, and it shows that in in 965 and 969.M30 the Space Wolves engaged in two missions from which all data has been redacted. And in the The First Heretic, dialogue among the Word Bearers and a deamon reveals that the XI legion did something so bad, that the Emperor led their purge personally and that the survivors of the XI legion were folded into the Ultramarines (which is the reason the Ultramarines were so much larger than any other legion). Also, in the 1st edition, all twenty first founding chapters were known. However, the Valedictors and Rainbow Warriors were demoted to a later founding in the 2nd edition, and the missing legions were introduced in their place.
40k fiction is incredibly malleable and can change drastically from one codex or novel to the next. I wouldn't be surprised if Games Workshop were to rework Konrad Curze death since it's obviously just Apocalypse now. Curze (Colonel Kurtz) being killed by M'Shen (Michael Sheen).
Mind = Blown.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also the missing legions astartes where rolled into the Ultramarines (if memory serves) this is hinted at in one of the books where it mentions their numbers swelling after the purge.
This of course also means that if those astartes had their geneseed harvested after death that mixed into the ultramarines is maybe one or two completely separate genetic lines that today make up the chapter and its successors.
Leman Russ randomly decided to take a vacation into the Eye of Terror. You might think he's dead, but consider it like this: a lousy friggin' Grey Knight Terminator (Draigo) has managed to survive inside the Eye of Terror. A Primarch is far more kickass than any Grey Knight, and so I'm sure Russ is all right. Russ was also the only primarch who ever had an official non-forgeworld miniature made of him. Russ is awesome.
.
Hey, Draigo is not just any GK in terminator armor. He defeated Mortarion, a primarch so he is more than just a simple GK but I agree if Draigo is just stopping around the Warp, I think that Russ and Corax can survive it as well.
Leman Russ randomly decided to take a vacation into the Eye of Terror. You might think he's dead, but consider it like this: a lousy friggin' Grey Knight Terminator (Draigo) has managed to survive inside the Eye of Terror. A Primarch is far more kickass than any Grey Knight, and so I'm sure Russ is all right. Russ was also the only primarch who ever had an official non-forgeworld miniature made of him. Russ is awesome.
.
Hey, Draigo is not just any GK in terminator armor. He defeated Mortarion, a primarch so he is more than just a simple GK but I agree if Draigo is just stopping around the Warp, I think that Russ and Corax can survive it as well.
And Draigo beating Mortarion is one of the most ridiculous pieces of fluff ever.
Also, in the 1st edition, all twenty first founding chapters were known. However, the Valedictors and Rainbow Warriors were demoted to a later founding in the 2nd edition, and the missing legions were introduced in their place.
Untrue. The Valedictors were Andy Chambers 'example' first founding chapter for Space Marine 1st edition, it was never enshrined in canon (to quote WD126: "I decided to use a chapter of my own so I can invent my own colour scheme and background"). The Rainbow Warriors were simply one of the twelve example chapters operating in the 41st millenium shown in the RT rulebook they were never mentioned in Heresy era fluff. In first edition there were three officially 'missing' chapters: The Isstvan V loyalists were struck from Imperial records after their utter annihilation on Isstvan, in addition the actual total number of named chapters was only 16 leaving one left over but nothing 'ooo ah' special was never made of it.
Leman Russ randomly decided to take a vacation into the Eye of Terror. You might think he's dead, but consider it like this: a lousy friggin' Grey Knight Terminator (Draigo) has managed to survive inside the Eye of Terror. A Primarch is far more kickass than any Grey Knight, and so I'm sure Russ is all right. Russ was also the only primarch who ever had an official non-forgeworld miniature made of him. Russ is awesome.
.
Hey, Draigo is not just any GK in terminator armor. He defeated Mortarion, a primarch so he is more than just a simple GK but I agree if Draigo is just stopping around the Warp, I think that Russ and Corax can survive it as well.
And Draigo beating Mortarion is one of the most ridiculous pieces of fluff ever.
Not the way they presented it in the audio drama, at least not imo. It was desperate and almost failed. If he would of killed Mortarion I would be inclined to agree or if he would of just whipped Mortarion's ass, yes it would of been ridiculous but Draigo almost died, Mortarion throughly beat him if it was for the desperate move of using Mortarion's true name and just banishing a daemon is something that an Inquisitor does and almost in the same "Oh my god I am about to die but here is your true name so ha!" kind of way.
Leman Russ randomly decided to take a vacation into the Eye of Terror. You might think he's dead, but consider it like this: a lousy friggin' Grey Knight Terminator (Draigo) has managed to survive inside the Eye of Terror. A Primarch is far more kickass than any Grey Knight, and so I'm sure Russ is all right. Russ was also the only primarch who ever had an official non-forgeworld miniature made of him. Russ is awesome.
.
Hey, Draigo is not just any GK in terminator armor. He defeated Mortarion, a primarch so he is more than just a simple GK but I agree if Draigo is just stopping around the Warp, I think that Russ and Corax can survive it as well.
And Draigo beating Mortarion is one of the most ridiculous pieces of fluff ever.
Not the way they presented it in the audio drama, at least not imo. It was desperate and almost failed. If he would of killed Mortarion I would be inclined to agree or if he would of just whipped Mortarion's ass, yes it would of been ridiculous but Draigo almost died, Mortarion throughly beat him if it was for the desperate move of using Mortarion's true name and just banishing a daemon is something that an Inquisitor does and almost in the same "Oh my god I am about to die but here is your true name so ha!" kind of way.
So did they retcon that whole "carving his predecessors name into mortarions heart" thing?
Leman Russ randomly decided to take a vacation into the Eye of Terror. You might think he's dead, but consider it like this: a lousy friggin' Grey Knight Terminator (Draigo) has managed to survive inside the Eye of Terror. A Primarch is far more kickass than any Grey Knight, and so I'm sure Russ is all right. Russ was also the only primarch who ever had an official non-forgeworld miniature made of him. Russ is awesome.
.
Hey, Draigo is not just any GK in terminator armor. He defeated Mortarion, a primarch so he is more than just a simple GK but I agree if Draigo is just stopping around the Warp, I think that Russ and Corax can survive it as well.
And Draigo beating Mortarion is one of the most ridiculous pieces of fluff ever.
Not the way they presented it in the audio drama, at least not imo. It was desperate and almost failed. If he would of killed Mortarion I would be inclined to agree or if he would of just whipped Mortarion's ass, yes it would of been ridiculous but Draigo almost died, Mortarion throughly beat him if it was for the desperate move of using Mortarion's true name and just banishing a daemon is something that an Inquisitor does and almost in the same "Oh my god I am about to die but here is your true name so ha!" kind of way.
So did they retcon that whole "carving his predecessors name into mortarions heart" thing?
Oh no, they kept that in. Mortarion lay severally degenerated and since Draigo knew he couldn't kill him, he decided to humiliate Mortarion instead. The audio drama is very revealing, this wasn't just a run of the mill fight, the entire thing had been orchestrated for years as in hundreds of year so everything had to go perfectly in order for them to have a chance to kill Mortarion because that was the original plan, but everything goes wrong, this was a plan B. Also, Mortarion viciously kills his predecessor. Actually, I really liked it because Mortarion is an awesome villain and it reveals several things about the founding of the Grey Knights and the first Supreme Grand Master that would probably piss James Swallow off.
We are talking about perhaps the most childish, stupid, goofy piece of background in a book so full of it. Yet you got my curiosity. I will add it to my list of things to know more about.
Thank you.
Anyway, the "I know your true name so LOL" thing is getting overused at this point.
More information:
VII: Rogal Dorn.
Just a little thing: it was the first Black Crusade. The first time the Imperium heard of the Black Legion, led by Abaddon.
XVIII: Vulcan. Something important is missing here.
See the entry by Kriswall
He was tortured repeatedly by Kurze and basically lost his mind. John Grammaticus stabbed him with the Emperor's Fulgarite Spear, which is basically a physical manifestation of the Emperor's power. The implication is that this act will restore his sanity. The Spear becomes lodged and Vulkan does not come back to life as he normally would, being a Perpetual and functionally immortal.
He body, complete with Fulgarite Spear is placed in a coffin marked with the words "The Unbound Flame". The Unbound Flame is one of the 9 artifacts that the Salamanders are looking for as spoken of in the Tome of Fire. They have no idea that this "artifact" is their Primarch's body. Presumably, when the artifacts are gathered and Vulkan's body is recovered, the Spear will be removed and he will return to life with his sanity restored. At least, that's what the Tome of Fire says. Collect all the artifacts and Vulkan returns. The Forgefathers... Vulkan Haestan in the currect 'dex... are tasked with finding the artifacts and therefore causing Vulkan to return.
In other words, not only is Vulkan not dead, but he has had a fair amount of storyline progression compared to most other Primarchs of late!
More information:
VII: Rogal Dorn.
Just a little thing: it was the first Black Crusade. The first time the Imperium heard of the Black Legion, led by Abaddon.
No, it was a Black Crusade, but not the first one. I just read a post by Aaron Dembski-Bowden about it on another forum actually (post #73):
More information:
VII: Rogal Dorn.
Just a little thing: it was the first Black Crusade. The first time the Imperium heard of the Black Legion, led by Abaddon.
No, it was a Black Crusade, but not the first one. I just read a post by Aaron Dembski-Bowden about it on another forum actually (post #73):
I stand corrected.
Thank you for the link. For anyone interested, the relevant info is: " Early M32, I think. A couple of hundred years after the First Black Crusade, either way. (This all came from one of the meetings/documents where we had to plan out just what actual dates the primarchs all went down.)"
This sort of messes with the previous background (business as usual in the Black Library). Corax disappeared after the break-up of the legions (032.M31) and Dorn soon after Corax. This "soon" is now 1000 years. It is also a pity: I thought it was one of the few times Abaddon had managed to achieve something remarkable before being utterly defeated.
Bloomshadow wrote: Something I find odd is that Dorn is stated to have died aboard a Despoiler class battleship in early M32.
Despite the fact that Despoiler battleships didn't enter service until M36.
What gives?
This is brought up in the Lexicanum article on Dorn. My list of personal resolutions are either A) Dorn lived longer than expected, B) the class of ship was mis-identified, C) the ship was built in M36 or later, was thereafter lost in the Warp, and then popped out of the Warp prior to Dorn boarding it in M32.
Bloomshadow wrote: Something I find odd is that Dorn is stated to have died aboard a Despoiler class battleship in early M32.
Despite the fact that Despoiler battleships didn't enter service until M36.
What gives?
This is brought up in the Lexicanum article on Dorn. My list of personal resolutions are either A) Dorn lived longer than expected, B) the class of ship was mis-identified, C) the ship was built in M36 or later, was thereafter lost in the Warp, and then popped out of the Warp prior to Dorn boarding it in M32.
Yeah sounds a bit too far overboard but I can see what they have tried to do with this even though it was done poorly. The whole turn out was as it was because it wanted to display an act of pure luck with the given odds. Neither did mortarion beleive a mere standard marine could do any harm so it's possible his guard wasn't full up. Plus they chucked in there a form of exorcism type banishment much like they show in the films which if you can call out the demons name then it would be enough for it to leave the hosts body and send the spirit into banishment. So the ending feels like one of them impossible scenarios that occur once in a million and draigo has been glorified from that fluke.
Not saying he's a fake or some kind of weed. But him destroying a primarch especially one possessed by chaos? Not really buying it nor would anyone of that era would either i would suspect. You just can't beat a primarch on the given facts of the opponent.
Yeah sounds a bit too far overboard but I can see what they have tried to do with this even though it was done poorly. The whole turn out was as it was because it wanted to display an act of pure luck with the given odds. Neither did mortarion beleive a mere standard marine could do any harm so it's possible his guard wasn't full up. Plus they chucked in there a form of exorcism type banishment much like they show in the films which if you can call out the demons name then it would be enough for it to leave the hosts body and send the spirit into banishment. So the ending feels like one of them impossible scenarios that occur once in a million and draigo has been glorified from that fluke.
Not saying he's a fake or some kind of weed. But him destroying a primarch especially one possessed by chaos? Not really buying it nor would anyone of that era would either i would suspect. You just can't beat a primarch on the given facts of the opponent.
I dunno what ya'like think about this???
That is what it is in all reality. This isn't the first time though a true name has been used by a Grey Knight to defeat a daemon. Alaric does it in the Grey Knight omnibus to a daemon where it is explained that knowing a daemon's true bane is the ultimate control over it and can be used to banish it. In the audio drama, Draigo reluctantly takes the position of Supreme Grand Master so that he may challenge Mortarion to a duel with the knowledge of Mortarion's true name locked in his subconscious to be used at the right moment which was after he got the snot beat out of him by Mortarion. Mortarion lets his guard down for a second and Draigo uses the true name to banish the daemonic part of Mortarion leaving him a husk on the ground but Mortarion still can't be killed because of his attachment to the warp so Draigo humiliates him instead. So it wasn't Draigo being a gary stue badass to defeat him but a standard daemon banishment which is the weakness one gets for becoming a daemon prince.
It is explained in the audio drama that once Mortarion became a Daemon Prince that he let the warp consume him and become more of a creature of the warp than a man of material space but with retaining some of his humanity, he can keep a tethered line to the material world just in case something like what Draigo did to him happens so his physical part became a husk of it's former glory as the powers of Nurgle did their thing on Mortarion's body.
Leman Russ randomly decided to take a vacation into the Eye of Terror. You might think he's dead, but consider it like this: a lousy friggin' Grey Knight Terminator (Draigo) has managed to survive inside the Eye of Terror. A Primarch is far more kickass than any Grey Knight, and so I'm sure Russ is all right. Russ was also the only primarch who ever had an official non-forgeworld miniature made of him. Russ is awesome.
.
Hey, Draigo is not just any GK in terminator armor. He defeated Mortarion, a primarch so he is more than just a simple GK but I agree if Draigo is just stopping around the Warp, I think that Russ and Corax can survive it as well.
That actually got fixed in the recent Grey Knights audiodrama. Draigo got the gak kicked out of him and came close to dying, but he used a psyker power to effectively poke Morty in the eyes to distract him, then ripped his daemon name out of his mind while he was distracted. Morty then exploded when it was uttered- but both parties knew he'd be back later and angry as hell. Draigo then picked Morty's heart off the ground and scribbled his master's name into it and called it a day.
Leman Russ randomly decided to take a vacation into the Eye of Terror. You might think he's dead, but consider it like this: a lousy friggin' Grey Knight Terminator (Draigo) has managed to survive inside the Eye of Terror. A Primarch is far more kickass than any Grey Knight, and so I'm sure Russ is all right. Russ was also the only primarch who ever had an official non-forgeworld miniature made of him. Russ is awesome.
.
Hey, Draigo is not just any GK in terminator armor. He defeated Mortarion, a primarch so he is more than just a simple GK but I agree if Draigo is just stopping around the Warp, I think that Russ and Corax can survive it as well.
That actually got fixed in the recent Grey Knights audiodrama. Draigo got the gak kicked out of him and came close to dying, but he used a psyker power to effectively poke Morty in the eyes to distract him, then ripped his daemon name out of his mind while he was distracted. Morty then exploded when it was uttered- but both parties knew he'd be back later and angry as hell. Draigo then picked Morty's heart off the ground and scribbled his master's name into it and called it a day.
We have been discussing that exact thing past the original response.
Leman Russ randomly decided to take a vacation into the Eye of Terror. You might think he's dead, but consider it like this: a lousy friggin' Grey Knight Terminator (Draigo) has managed to survive inside the Eye of Terror. A Primarch is far more kickass than any Grey Knight, and so I'm sure Russ is all right. Russ was also the only primarch who ever had an official non-forgeworld miniature made of him. Russ is awesome.
.
Hey, Draigo is not just any GK in terminator armor. He defeated Mortarion, a primarch so he is more than just a simple GK but I agree if Draigo is just stopping around the Warp, I think that Russ and Corax can survive it as well.
That actually got fixed in the recent Grey Knights audiodrama. Draigo got the gak kicked out of him and came close to dying, but he used a psyker power to effectively poke Morty in the eyes to distract him, then ripped his daemon name out of his mind while he was distracted. Morty then exploded when it was uttered- but both parties knew he'd be back later and angry as hell. Draigo then picked Morty's heart off the ground and scribbled his master's name into it and called it a day.
We have been discussing that exact thing past the original response.
I also don't know why killing a daemon primarch would be a big deal- they're a Daemon Prince, it's not like they're dead if you kill one, they're just banished. The only concern is how much of a Gary Stu Draigo is.
Happyjew wrote: Mysterious Pants - Russ is more than alright. He went into the Eye, entered the bar he saw and has been drinking ever since. Due to his refusal to leave (and as a Primarch he is kickass enough that the Daemon proprietors can't (or won't) kick him out), Corax went in to pull him out.
Damn straight.
All the smart Primarchs went scarce right after the heresy, so that they could be around for the big schbang at the end times. The ones that lingered around doing stuff wound up killed in surprisingly stupid ways.
I hate all the primarchs that just wandered off. They pretty much abandoned the Imperium. Guilliman may have died, but he helped hold the Imperium together following the Heresy and the Imperium would be doing much better if one of the level headed primarchs like Corax or Dorn were still around.
cammy wrote: for those who are intrested in legions 2 and 11
from the Sigillite audio book cover
What is that image suggesting? That that's a member of one of the lost chapters?
His throne has the numbers of the lost legions on the arm rests.
It's most likely if this guy is inquisition then he's one of the few that actually know their real history and what happened to them. If they actually have been obliterated as they claim. It's possible something else is running parallel with these guys and they haven't actually been destroyed. Otherwise why have the numbers engraved on a seat for gods sakes if they were to be stripped from record
cammy wrote: for those who are intrested in legions 2 and 11
from the Sigillite audio book cover
What is that image suggesting? That that's a member of one of the lost chapters?
His throne has the numbers of the lost legions on the arm rests.
It's most likely if this guy is inquisition then he's one of the few that actually know their real history and what happened to them. If they actually have been obliterated as they claim. It's possible something else is running parallel with these guys and they haven't actually been destroyed. Otherwise why have the numbers engraved on a seat for gods sakes if they were to be stripped from record
That "guy" is Malcador the Sigilite, he created the Inquisition and is one of the most powerful psykers known to man. He is also some how still alive in the 41st. In his right hand there, you can see his sigil which is the precursor to what would become the Inquisitorial Seal. The Sigilite audio drama to which that picture is a cover to, details him in the process of making the Inquisition. The stories that follow Garro after Isstavan V detail how Malcador made the Grey Knights. Malcador was also instrumental in making the primarchs and the Space Marines, which is also described in The Sigilite, so he knows what happened to the II and XI Legions so for whatever reason, he felt to inscribe their numbers into his throne. I want to know why too, so bad. GW could of just put it there as a taunt too.
Ah, you are right. My friend and I had a debate once and he swore that Malcador was still alive. I think he was confusing the fact that Malcador already was very old by the Horus Heresy.
So he disintegrated on purpose or??? If on purpose then it's possible he's not actually gone then? So this guy was more powerful than the emperor in terms of psyche or second to him?
Farseer Anath'lan wrote: Johnson is stated to have been healed in the Dark Angels Codex. Might be the reason.
Oh, neat. So DA finally caught up then? 2e Ultramarine codex says the same about Gman. I think misguided irrational hatred for the Ultramarines was probably a more accurate answer.
kerikhaos wrote: So he disintegrated on purpose or??? If on purpose then it's possible he's not actually gone then? So this guy was more powerful than the emperor in terms of psyche or second to him?
Malcador was second to the Emperor in terms of Psychic ability. Basically, the Emperor was working on a human webway and originally he wanted Magnus to power it. When Magnus did what he did, the Emperor then wanted Malcador to take Magnus' place. Just being a regular human, his body couldn't take the psychic barrage from keeping the webway open. When Dorn came to switch the dying Emperor into the Golden Throne, when they took Malcador out his body turned to dust but he used the last of his strength to give to the Emperor to awaken him from the coma from the wounds sustained in battle with Horus.
Despite Malcador dying, his effect on the Imperium is huge.
kerikhaos wrote: So he disintegrated on purpose or??? If on purpose then it's possible he's not actually gone then? So this guy was more powerful than the emperor in terms of psyche or second to him?
Malcador was second to the Emperor in terms of Psychic ability. Basically, the Emperor was working on a human webway and originally he wanted Magnus to power it. When Magnus did what he did, the Emperor then wanted Malcador to take Magnus' place. Just being a regular human, his body couldn't take the psychic barrage from keeping the webway open. When Dorn came to switch the dying Emperor into the Golden Throne, when they took Malcador out his body turned to dust but he used the last of his strength to give to the Emperor to awaken him from the coma from the wounds sustained in battle with Horus.
Despite Malcador dying, his effect on the Imperium is huge.
I didn't know this at all, it's very interesting. In fact I'm dying to know more on malcadors fluff. What was he in the beginning, why did he have such amazing psyche powers, how close was he to the emperor and probably most important where did he come from?
kerikhaos wrote: So he disintegrated on purpose or??? If on purpose then it's possible he's not actually gone then? So this guy was more powerful than the emperor in terms of psyche or second to him?
Malcador was second to the Emperor in terms of Psychic ability. Basically, the Emperor was working on a human webway and originally he wanted Magnus to power it. When Magnus did what he did, the Emperor then wanted Malcador to take Magnus' place. Just being a regular human, his body couldn't take the psychic barrage from keeping the webway open. When Dorn came to switch the dying Emperor into the Golden Throne, when they took Malcador out his body turned to dust but he used the last of his strength to give to the Emperor to awaken him from the coma from the wounds sustained in battle with Horus.
Despite Malcador dying, his effect on the Imperium is huge.
I didn't know this at all, it's very interesting. In fact I'm dying to know more on malcadors fluff. What was he in the beginning, why did he have such amazing psyche powers, how close was he to the emperor and probably most important where did he come from?
The origins of Malcador are as they usually are, mysterious. He was the Emperor's right hand man, able to act for the Emperor when the Emperor wasn't able to appear. He was second only to the Emperor and was tasked with directly from the Emperor to find "men of character, skill and determination" which was the start of the Imperial Inquisition and that is Malcador's real claim to fame. The Sigilite audio drama has him in it quite extensively as he interviews a covert op agent. Anything involving Garro after the Flight of Eisenstein will have Malcador at least referenced in it. It has been a great interest to me because the Inquisition is my favorite faction.
kerikhaos wrote: So he disintegrated on purpose or??? If on purpose then it's possible he's not actually gone then? So this guy was more powerful than the emperor in terms of psyche or second to him?
Malcador was second to the Emperor in terms of Psychic ability. Basically, the Emperor was working on a human webway and originally he wanted Magnus to power it. When Magnus did what he did, the Emperor then wanted Malcador to take Magnus' place. Just being a regular human, his body couldn't take the psychic barrage from keeping the webway open. When Dorn came to switch the dying Emperor into the Golden Throne, when they took Malcador out his body turned to dust but he used the last of his strength to give to the Emperor to awaken him from the coma from the wounds sustained in battle with Horus.
Despite Malcador dying, his effect on the Imperium is huge.
I didn't know this at all, it's very interesting. In fact I'm dying to know more on malcadors fluff. What was he in the beginning, why did he have such amazing psyche powers, how close was he to the emperor and probably most important where did he come from?
The origins of Malcador are as they usually are, mysterious. He was the Emperor's right hand man, able to act for the Emperor when the Emperor wasn't able to appear. He was second only to the Emperor and was tasked with directly from the Emperor to find "men of character, skill and determination" which was the start of the Imperial Inquisition and that is Malcador's real claim to fame. The Sigilite audio drama has him in it quite extensively as he interviews a covert op agent. Anything involving Garro after the Flight of Eisenstein will have Malcador at least referenced in it. It has been a great interest to me because the Inquisition is my favorite faction.
Interesting, he was the right hand man obviously while the emperor was in human form? Was he around from the beginning during the emperors rise to dame or did he come along afterwards?
kerikhaos wrote: So he disintegrated on purpose or??? If on purpose then it's possible he's not actually gone then? So this guy was more powerful than the emperor in terms of psyche or second to him?
Malcador was second to the Emperor in terms of Psychic ability. Basically, the Emperor was working on a human webway and originally he wanted Magnus to power it. When Magnus did what he did, the Emperor then wanted Malcador to take Magnus' place. Just being a regular human, his body couldn't take the psychic barrage from keeping the webway open. When Dorn came to switch the dying Emperor into the Golden Throne, when they took Malcador out his body turned to dust but he used the last of his strength to give to the Emperor to awaken him from the coma from the wounds sustained in battle with Horus.
Despite Malcador dying, his effect on the Imperium is huge.
I didn't know this at all, it's very interesting. In fact I'm dying to know more on malcadors fluff. What was he in the beginning, why did he have such amazing psyche powers, how close was he to the emperor and probably most important where did he come from?
The origins of Malcador are as they usually are, mysterious. He was the Emperor's right hand man, able to act for the Emperor when the Emperor wasn't able to appear. He was second only to the Emperor and was tasked with directly from the Emperor to find "men of character, skill and determination" which was the start of the Imperial Inquisition and that is Malcador's real claim to fame. The Sigilite audio drama has him in it quite extensively as he interviews a covert op agent. Anything involving Garro after the Flight of Eisenstein will have Malcador at least referenced in it. It has been a great interest to me because the Inquisition is my favorite faction.
Interesting, he was the right hand man obviously while the emperor was in human form? Was he around from the beginning during the emperors rise to dame or did he come along afterwards?
Malcador was around during the Great Crusade having a supportive role but as I said, his big thing was when the Heresy broke out, the Emperor knew that they now had to watch for Heresy lest it happened again so Malcador only becomes a big player during that time. His origins are unknown, his age is unknown. A perfect character for the generation of an organization like the Inquisition.
kerikhaos wrote: So he disintegrated on purpose or??? If on purpose then it's possible he's not actually gone then? So this guy was more powerful than the emperor in terms of psyche or second to him?
Malcador was second to the Emperor in terms of Psychic ability. Basically, the Emperor was working on a human webway and originally he wanted Magnus to power it. When Magnus did what he did, the Emperor then wanted Malcador to take Magnus' place. Just being a regular human, his body couldn't take the psychic barrage from keeping the webway open. When Dorn came to switch the dying Emperor into the Golden Throne, when they took Malcador out his body turned to dust but he used the last of his strength to give to the Emperor to awaken him from the coma from the wounds sustained in battle with Horus.
Despite Malcador dying, his effect on the Imperium is huge.
I didn't know this at all, it's very interesting. In fact I'm dying to know more on malcadors fluff. What was he in the beginning, why did he have such amazing psyche powers, how close was he to the emperor and probably most important where did he come from?
The origins of Malcador are as they usually are, mysterious. He was the Emperor's right hand man, able to act for the Emperor when the Emperor wasn't able to appear. He was second only to the Emperor and was tasked with directly from the Emperor to find "men of character, skill and determination" which was the start of the Imperial Inquisition and that is Malcador's real claim to fame. The Sigilite audio drama has him in it quite extensively as he interviews a covert op agent. Anything involving Garro after the Flight of Eisenstein will have Malcador at least referenced in it. It has been a great interest to me because the Inquisition is my favorite faction.
Interesting, he was the right hand man obviously while the emperor was in human form? Was he around from the beginning during the emperors rise to dame or did he come along afterwards?
Malcador was around during the Great Crusade having a supportive role but as I said, his big thing was when the Heresy broke out, the Emperor knew that they now had to watch for Heresy lest it happened again so Malcador only becomes a big player during that time. His origins are unknown, his age is unknown. A perfect character for the generation of an organization like the Inquisition.
Excellent stuff, very interesting reading about that guy
Envihon wrote: The stories that follow Garro after Isstavan V detail how Malcador made the Grey Knights. Malcador was also instrumental in making the primarchs and the Space Marines, which is also described in The Sigilite, so he knows what happened to the II and XI Legions so for whatever reason, he felt to inscribe their numbers into his throne. I want to know why too, so bad. GW could of just put it there as a taunt too.
Maybe those are even the skulls of the 2nd and 11th primarchs?
Envihon wrote: The stories that follow Garro after Isstavan V detail how Malcador made the Grey Knights. Malcador was also instrumental in making the primarchs and the Space Marines, which is also described in The Sigilite, so he knows what happened to the II and XI Legions so for whatever reason, he felt to inscribe their numbers into his throne. I want to know why too, so bad. GW could of just put it there as a taunt too.
Maybe those are even the skulls of the 2nd and 11th primarchs?
I never even considered that a possibility but maybe, who knows really? My only hesitation with the conclusion is that aren't the skulls a tad too small to be a Primarch skull? Men that big I would assume would have pretty big skulls.
Envihon wrote: The stories that follow Garro after Isstavan V detail how Malcador made the Grey Knights. Malcador was also instrumental in making the primarchs and the Space Marines, which is also described in The Sigilite, so he knows what happened to the II and XI Legions so for whatever reason, he felt to inscribe their numbers into his throne. I want to know why too, so bad. GW could of just put it there as a taunt too.
Maybe those are even the skulls of the 2nd and 11th primarchs?
I never even considered that a possibility but maybe, who knows really? My only hesitation with the conclusion is that aren't the skulls a tad too small to be a Primarch skull? Men that big I would assume would have pretty big skulls.
No way primarch skulls. Unless malcador was 10ft too or bigger so the scale is justified. its no way going to stick those skulls are the missing chapters primarchs.
It's more like he's confirming he had a lot to do with their creation and more to do with their obliteration. He has it as a constant reminder maybe so he will never forget 2 1st founding chapters. Despite there deeds negative or otherwise.
Mysterious Pants wrote: They didn't all meet their end. Look it up on Lexicanum or the Warhammer Wiki if you really need the full scoop, I can't be bothered to describe 'em all.
I recall the surviving heretical primarchs became demon princes. I would personally classify that as 'A fate worse than death'.
Lion El'Jonson is alive. He's taking a nap but evidence suggests to me that he's just doing that to extend his lifespan, and he's able to wake up and go kickass with his Green Friends when he's really needed. He's probably waiting for something super-important to happen before waking up.
Everyone thinks Roboute Guiliman is slowly healing, but that's because they're a bunch of mystical dummies. As long as he's trapped inside a stasis field, he's experiencing tremendous pain. So I guess Roboute is still 'alive', but he's been in ball-crushing agony for the last 10,000 years and as soon as the stasis field goes away he'll die.
Leman Russ randomly decided to take a vacation into the Eye of Terror. You might think he's dead, but consider it like this: a lousy friggin' Grey Knight Terminator (Draigo) has managed to survive inside the Eye of Terror. A Primarch is far more kickass than any Grey Knight, and so I'm sure Russ is all right. Russ was also the only primarch who ever had an official non-forgeworld miniature made of him. Russ is awesome.
When the Empire starts really falling apart The Lion and Russ will suddenly appear, team up, and kickass across the galaxy. It's been forseen.
He's probably in there, kickin' it with the 13th between their forays out of the Eye of Terror to fight Abaddon and his Black Crusade.
I thought it was definitely a twin so the Alpha Legion do still have at least one Primarch barring other causes of death. Not that the Alpha Legion ever needed a single leader.
pm713 wrote: I thought it was definitely a twin so the Alpha Legion do still have at least one Primarch barring other causes of death. Not that the Alpha Legion ever needed a single leader.
It's an interesting chapter the alpha legion and the fluff even more bizarre. It's said that the primarch actually new about the heresy before it happened and even as far as knowing the emperor would be very mortally wounded in the match against Horus. Quite a bit of mystery with theses guys but what's interesting is where and what are they doing now ???
pm713 wrote: I thought it was definitely a twin so the Alpha Legion do still have at least one Primarch barring other causes of death. Not that the Alpha Legion ever needed a single leader.
It's an interesting chapter the alpha legion and the fluff even more bizarre. It's said that the primarch actually new about the heresy before it happened and even as far as knowing the emperor would be very mortally wounded in the match against Horus. Quite a bit of mystery with theses guys but what's interesting is where and what are they doing now ???
I believe they're annoying the Inqusition by being wiped out and coming back. No idea whose side they're on though.
Well I understood as far they had deliberately appeared traitor to safely root within the chaos forces only to one day revert back to good and possibly ending the chaos plague once and for all. Their primarch has foreseen this and is now just playing a sitting duck game on the other end of the galaxy
It is unclear whether the Alpha Legion joined the Rebel Legions to get set up to destroy chaos later, or if they followed the words of the mysterious Cabal and wanted to help Horus destroy the imperium so he'd get struck with grief and kill everything, thus ending Chaos once and for all. It is widely theorized that they're now so caught up in their deceptions and cover that they have lost all purpose and now act out subterfuge for the simple sake of subterfuge.
Alpha Legion's plots are so convoluted that the only one who could possibly follow them is Tzeentch. And maybe Creed. Not even Alpha Legion can follow them anymore.
It's possible that if the their primarch/s had the gift of sight then they could see the outcome of this harsh war. It would then be clear what path to follow and how to cleverly hide their plans. It was a simple job of staging decoy characters, following false mission, misleading intentions and misdirection to give them that edge of staying hidden like a needle in a haystack. Then when the time was right pounce and end the grim shadow of chaos and war. This makes sense as how they kept a lot to themselves even in the beginning.
Who knows though. It's one if those if and or situations
Deadshot wrote: Only 10 Primarchs have confirmed fates. Of these only 3 (or 4 depending on personal belief) are confirmed dead; Sanguinius, Ferrus Manus and Horus.
Guilliman may or may not be according to some but personally, he's dead as doornails. He's held in stasis on Macragge.
Fulgrim, Perturabo, Angron, Mortarion, Magnus and Lorgar are Daemon Princes.
The others are missing, or presumed, but not confirmed dead.
What about lion el Jonson. Isn't he sleeping within the rock or is that just superstition from dark angels
Deadshot wrote: Only 10 Primarchs have confirmed fates. Of these only 3 (or 4 depending on personal belief) are confirmed dead; Sanguinius, Ferrus Manus and Horus.
Guilliman may or may not be according to some but personally, he's dead as doornails. He's held in stasis on Macragge.
Fulgrim, Perturabo, Angron, Mortarion, Magnus and Lorgar are Daemon Princes.
The others are missing, or presumed, but not confirmed dead.
What about lion el Jonson. Isn't he sleeping within the rock or is that just superstition from dark angels
Speculation. Not confirmed. The only ones with 100%, definately, confirmed fates are those listed above.
Lion may or may not be asleep under the Rock, or dead.
Russ may or may not be alive or dead in the warp.
Khan may or may not be alive in the Webway.
Dorn may or may not have died in a Black Crusade.
Kurze is "confirmed" dead by the Inquisition but the pict feed went dead at the moment of death so he may have escaped.
Vulkan is alive, as he just respawns upon death, but where is a mystery. He may be in the collection of Tryzan, or whatever his name is.
Alpharius may or may not be killed by Gulliman, or it may be Omegon. Or neither. Or both. Who knows?
The 6 Daemon Primarchs are confirmed alive and have been active since the heresy.
Ferrus Manus was decapitated, in front of his men. He's definately dead.
Sanguinius was killed by Horus. Confirmed.
Horus was fethed up by the Emperor and then obliternated. Dead.
Guilliman was cut through the throat to bone, and his corpse is in stasis on Maccrage. Some claim he is regenerating based on one bit of fluff that has pilgrims claim as such. Impossible though.
The whole missing in action stuff is a bit weird I think, I mean in 40k in general they didn't want battles to include primarchs so they got rid of them either by death, chaos concerted or MIA - but why bother with the MIA bits? Did GW pick their favourite chapters to have the opportunity of a primarch return?
Talking of daemon princes - do these posses the same or greater power of that of a primarch? Plus if I've got this right they can't ever die not even if slain in battle. The chaos gods keep manifesting them back to physical form to fight another day or have I got that wrong???
kerikhaos wrote: The whole missing in action stuff is a bit weird I think, I mean in 40k in general they didn't want battles to include primarchs so they got rid of them either by death, chaos concerted or MIA - but why bother with the MIA bits? Did GW pick their favourite chapters to have the opportunity of a primarch return?
Talking of daemon princes - do these posses the same or greater power of that of a primarch? Plus if I've got this right they can't ever die not even if slain in battle. The chaos gods keep manifesting them back to physical form to fight another day or have I got that wrong???
Primarchs are far and away greater than any Daemon Prince (save one who is actually a Daemon Primarch). The Primarchs outmatch most Greater Daemons in fact- Sanguinius in fact beat the Bloodthirster Ka'Bandha, cited in some fluff including the GK codex to be the most powerful of Khorne's warriors, in single combat, twice. Once detailed in Fear to Tread, the second at the gates of the Imperial Palace where he broke the Daemon's back over his knee (while having broken legs).
So basically, the pecking order is
Furies < Daemonling (Seeker steed, flesh hound, screamer, Beasts of Nurgle, Nurgling) < Lesser Daemon (Bloodletters, Daemonettes, ) <Horrors, Plaguebearers) >< Elite Daemons (Bloodcrushers, Flamers, Fiends, Rotflies) < Heralds < Named Heralds (Skulltaker, Blue Scribes, Masque)< Daemon Princes < Greater Daemons < Primarchs and Named Greater Daemons (Skarbrand, Ka'Banda, Fateweaver) < Daemon Lords (Anngrath the Unbound) and Daemon Primarchs.
Angron, Magnus, Mortarion, Fulgrim, Lorgar and Perturabo were all made into Daemon Princes, and are known as Daemon Primarchs.
Then that would mean they would possess the same if not more power than a standard primarch?what I mean is from being a primarch already and then boating the chaos power on top of that wouldn't it conclude they were more powerful than the standard primarchs if they were around?
Which daemon primarchs are still around in 40k present day.,??
