PRIMARCHS - How did they all meet their end?

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**A Town Called Malus**

Envihon wrote:
Mysterious Pants wrote:

Leman Russ randomly decided to take a vacation into the Eye of Terror. You might think he's dead, but consider it like this: a lousy friggin' Grey Knight Terminator (Draigo) has managed to survive inside the Eye of Terror. A Primarch is far more kickass than any Grey Knight, and so I'm sure Russ is all right. Russ was also the only primarch who ever had an official non-forgeworld miniature made of him. Russ is awesome.
.

Hey, Draigo is not just any GK in terminator armor. He defeated Mortarion, a primarch so he is more than just a simple GK but I agree if Draigo is just stopping around the Warp, I think that Russ and Corax can survive it as well.

And Draigo beating Mortarion is one of the most ridiculous pieces of fluff ever.

**Gashrog**

Iron_Captain wrote:

Also, in the 1st edition, all twenty first founding chapters were known. However, the Valedictors and Rainbow Warriors were demoted to a later founding in the 2nd edition, and the missing legions were introduced in their place.

Untrue. The Valedictors were Andy Chambers 'example' first founding chapter for Space Marine 1st edition, it was never enshrined in canon (to quote WD126: "I decided to use a chapter of my own so I can invent my own colour scheme and background"). The Rainbow Warriors were simply one of the twelve example chapters operating in the 41st millenium shown in the RT rulebook they were never mentioned in Heresy era fluff. In first edition there were three officially 'missing' chapters: The Isstvan V loyalists were struck from Imperial records after their utter annihilation on Isstvan, in addition the actual total number of named chapters was only 16 leaving one left over but nothing 'ooo ah' special was never made of it.

**Envihon**

A Town Called Malus wrote:
Envihon wrote:
Mysterious Pants wrote:

Leman Russ randomly decided to take a vacation into the Eye of Terror. You might think he's dead, but consider it like this: a lousy friggin' Grey Knight Terminator (Draigo) has managed to survive inside the Eye of Terror. A Primarch is far more kickass than any Grey Knight, and so I'm sure Russ is all right. Russ was also the only primarch who ever had an official non-forgeworld miniature made of him. Russ is awesome.
.

Hey, Draigo is not just any GK in terminator armor. He defeated Mortarion, a primarch so he is more than just a simple GK but I agree if Draigo is just stopping around the Warp, I think that Russ and Corax can survive it as well.

And Draigo beating Mortarion is one of the most ridiculous pieces of fluff ever.

Not the way they presented it in the audio drama, at least not imo. It was desperate and almost failed. If he would of killed Mortarion I would be inclined to agree or if he would of just whipped Mortarion's ass, yes it would of been ridiculous but Draigo almost died, Mortarion throughly beat him if it was for the desperate move of using Mortarion's true name and just banishing a daemon is something that an Inquisitor does and almost in the same "Oh my god I am about to die but here is your true name so ha!" kind of way.

**A Town Called Malus**

Envihon wrote:
A Town Called Malus wrote:
Envihon wrote:
Mysterious Pants wrote:

Leman Russ randomly decided to take a vacation into the Eye of Terror. You might think he's dead, but consider it like this: a lousy friggin' Grey Knight Terminator (Draigo) has managed to survive inside the Eye of Terror. A Primarch is far more kickass than any Grey Knight, and so I'm sure Russ is all right. Russ was also the only primarch who ever had an official non-forgeworld miniature made of him. Russ is awesome.
.

Hey, Draigo is not just any GK in terminator armor. He defeated Mortarion, a primarch so he is more than just a simple GK but I agree if Draigo is just stopping around the Warp, I think that Russ and Corax can survive it as well.

And Draigo beating Mortarion is one of the most ridiculous pieces of fluff ever.

Not the way they presented it in the audio drama, at least not imo. It was desperate and almost failed. If he would of killed Mortarion I would be inclined to agree or if he would of just whipped Mortarion's ass, yes it would of been ridiculous but Draigo almost died, Mortarion throughly beat him if it was for the desperate move of using Mortarion's true name and just banishing a daemon is something that an Inquisitor does and almost in the same "Oh my god I am about to die but here is your true name so ha!" kind of way.

So did they retcon that whole "carving his predecessors name into mortarions heart" thing?

**Envihon**

A Town Called Malus wrote:
Envihon wrote:
A Town Called Malus wrote:
Envihon wrote:
Mysterious Pants wrote:

Leman Russ randomly decided to take a vacation into the Eye of Terror. You might think he's dead, but consider it like this: a lousy friggin' Grey Knight Terminator (Draigo) has managed to survive inside the Eye of Terror. A Primarch is far more kickass than any Grey Knight, and so I'm sure Russ is all right. Russ was also the only primarch who ever had an official non-forgeworld miniature made of him. Russ is awesome.
.

Hey, Draigo is not just any GK in terminator armor. He defeated Mortarion, a primarch so he is more than just a simple GK but I agree if Draigo is just stopping around the Warp, I think that Russ and Corax can survive it as well.

And Draigo beating Mortarion is one of the most ridiculous pieces of fluff ever.

Not the way they presented it in the audio drama, at least not imo. It was desperate and almost failed. If he would of killed Mortarion I would be inclined to agree or if he would of just whipped Mortarion's ass, yes it would of been ridiculous but Draigo almost died, Mortarion throughly beat him if it was for the desperate move of using Mortarion's true name and just banishing a daemon is something that an Inquisitor does and almost in the same "Oh my god I am about to die but here is your true name so ha!" kind of way.

So did they retcon that whole "carving his predecessors name into mortarions heart" thing?

Oh no, they kept that in. Mortarion lay severally degenerated and since Draigo knew he couldn't kill him, he decided to humiliate Mortarion instead. The audio drama is very revealing, this wasn't just a run of the mill fight, the entire thing had been orchestrated for years as in hundreds of year so everything had to go perfectly in order for them to have a chance to kill Mortarion because that was the original plan, but everything goes wrong, this was a plan B. Also, Mortarion viciously kills his predecessor. Actually, I really liked it because Mortarion is an awesome villain and it reveals several things about the founding of the Grey Knights and the first Supreme Grand Master that would probably piss James Swallow off.

**carlos13th**

Divorced, beheaded, died, divorced, beheaded survived.

Wait that's Henry the eighths wives

**kerikhaos**

Interesting stuff about draigo vs mortarion. I'm still unclear if he actually killed him though

**da001**

Envihon wrote:

(stuff on Draigo Vs Mortarion)

Mmmmmm... that kinda sounds interesting.

We are talking about perhaps the most childish, stupid, goofy piece of background in a book so full of it. Yet you got my curiosity. I will add it to my list of things to know more about.

Thank you.

Anyway, the "I know your true name so LOL" thing is getting overused at this point.

On topic, the best answer was from Iron Captain: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/591213.page#6750899

More information:
VII: Rogal Dorn.
Just a little thing: it was the first Black Crusade. The first time the Imperium heard of the Black Legion, led by Abaddon.

XVIII: Vulcan. Something important is missing here.
See the entry by Kriswall

Kriswall wrote:
Vulkan wasn't perma-killed.

Spoiler:

He was tortured repeatedly by Kurze and basically lost his mind. John Grammaticus stabbed him with the Emperor's Fulgarite Spear, which is basically a physical manifestation of the Emperor's power. The implication is that this act will restore his sanity. The Spear becomes lodged and Vulkan does not come back to life as he normally would, being a Perpetual and functionally immortal.

He body, complete with Fulgarite Spear is placed in a coffin marked with the words "The Unbound Flame". The Unbound Flame is one of the 9 artifacts that the Salamanders are looking for as spoken of in the Tome of Fire. They have no idea that this "artifact" is their Primarch's body. Presumably, when the artifacts are gathered and Vulkan's body is recovered, the Spear will be removed and he will return to life with his sanity restored. At least, that's what the Tome of Fire says. Collect all the artifacts and Vulkan returns. The Forgefathers... Vulkan Haestan in the currect 'dex... are tasked with finding the artifacts and therefore causing Vulkan to return.

In other words, not only is Vulkan not dead, but he has had a fair amount of storyline progression compared to most other Primarchs of late!

**tgjensen**

da001 wrote:

More information:
VII: Rogal Dorn.
Just a little thing: it was the first Black Crusade. The first time the Imperium heard of the Black Legion, led by Abaddon.

No, it was a Black Crusade, but not the first one. I just read a post by Aaron Dembski-Bowden about it on another forum actually (post #73):

**da001**

tgjensen wrote:
da001 wrote:

More information:
VII: Rogal Dorn.
Just a little thing: it was the first Black Crusade. The first time the Imperium heard of the Black Legion, led by Abaddon.

No, it was a Black Crusade, but not the first one. I just read a post by Aaron Dembski-Bowden about it on another forum actually (post #73):

I stand corrected.

Thank you for the link. For anyone interested, the relevant info is: " Early M32, I think. A couple of hundred years after the First Black Crusade, either way. (This all came from one of the meetings/documents where we had to plan out just what actual dates the primarchs all went down.)"

This sort of messes with the previous background (business as usual in the Black Library). Corax disappeared after the break-up of the legions (032.M31) and Dorn soon after Corax. This "soon" is now 1000 years. It is also a pity: I thought it was one of the few times Abaddon had managed to achieve something remarkable before being utterly defeated.

**Bloomshadow**

Something I find odd is that Dorn is stated to have died aboard a Despoiler class battleship in early M32.

Despite the fact that Despoiler battleships didn't enter service until M36.

What gives?

**kerikhaos**

A typo?

**nobody**

The warp is a funny thing

**Psienesis**

Bloomshadow wrote:
Something I find odd is that Dorn is stated to have died aboard a Despoiler class battleship in early M32.

Despite the fact that Despoiler battleships didn't enter service until M36.

What gives?

This is brought up in the Lexicanum article on Dorn. My list of personal resolutions are either A) Dorn lived longer than expected, B) the class of ship was mis-identified, C) the ship was built in M36 or later, was thereafter lost in the Warp, and then popped out of the Warp prior to Dorn boarding it in M32.

**kerikhaos**

Psienesis wrote:
Bloomshadow wrote:
Something I find odd is that Dorn is stated to have died aboard a Despoiler class battleship in early M32.

Despite the fact that Despoiler battleships didn't enter service until M36.

What gives?

This is brought up in the Lexicanum article on Dorn. My list of personal resolutions are either A) Dorn lived longer than expected, B) the class of ship was mis-identified, C) the ship was built in M36 or later, was thereafter lost in the Warp, and then popped out of the Warp prior to Dorn boarding it in M32.

It's possible

**cammy**

for those who are intrested in legions 2 and 11

from the Sigillite audio book cover

**Ashiraya**

Envihon wrote:

Hey, Draigo is not just any GK in terminator armor. He defeated Mortarion, a primarch

There's a name for that kind of thing.

It's called 'Matt Ward'

**Kain**

Ashiraya wrote:
Envihon wrote:

Hey, Draigo is not just any GK in terminator armor. He defeated Mortarion, a primarch

There's a name for that kind of thing.

It's called 'Matt Ward'

As we all know, Draigo was just experiencing a warp dust induced power high.

Even Mortarion was powerless before the might of the space equivalent of Lance Armstrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfJUi4cB4oc

**kerikhaos**

Kain wrote:
Ashiraya wrote:
Envihon wrote:

Hey, Draigo is not just any GK in terminator armor. He defeated Mortarion, a primarch

There's a name for that kind of thing.

It's called 'Matt Ward'

As we all know, Draigo was just experiencing a warp dust induced power high.

Even Mortarion was powerless before the might of the space equivalent of Lance Armstrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfJUi4cB4oc

Yeah sounds a bit too far overboard but I can see what they have tried to do with this even though it was done poorly. The whole turn out was as it was because it wanted to display an act of pure luck with the given odds. Neither did mortarion beleive a mere standard marine could do any harm so it's possible his guard wasn't full up. Plus they chucked in there a form of exorcism type banishment much like they show in the films which if you can call out the demons name then it would be enough for it to leave the hosts body and send the spirit into banishment. So the ending feels like one of them impossible scenarios that occur once in a million and draigo has been glorified from that fluke.

Not saying he's a fake or some kind of weed. But him destroying a primarch especially one possessed by chaos? Not really buying it nor would anyone of that era would either i would suspect. You just can't beat a primarch on the given facts of the opponent.

I dunno what ya'like think about this???

**Envihon**

kerikhaos wrote:
Kain wrote:
Ashiraya wrote:
Envihon wrote:

Hey, Draigo is not just any GK in terminator armor. He defeated Mortarion, a primarch

There's a name for that kind of thing.

It's called 'Matt Ward'

As we all know, Draigo was just experiencing a warp dust induced power high.

Even Mortarion was powerless before the might of the space equivalent of Lance Armstrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfJUi4cB4oc

Yeah sounds a bit too far overboard but I can see what they have tried to do with this even though it was done poorly. The whole turn out was as it was because it wanted to display an act of pure luck with the given odds. Neither did mortarion beleive a mere standard marine could do any harm so it's possible his guard wasn't full up. Plus they chucked in there a form of exorcism type banishment much like they show in the films which if you can call out the demons name then it would be enough for it to leave the hosts body and send the spirit into banishment. So the ending feels like one of them impossible scenarios that occur once in a million and draigo has been glorified from that fluke.

Not saying he's a fake or some kind of weed. But him destroying a primarch especially one possessed by chaos? Not really buying it nor would anyone of that era would either i would suspect. You just can't beat a primarch on the given facts of the opponent.

I dunno what ya'like think about this???

That is what it is in all reality. This isn't the first time though a true name has been used by a Grey Knight to defeat a daemon. Alaric does it in the Grey Knight omnibus to a daemon where it is explained that knowing a daemon's true bane is the ultimate control over it and can be used to banish it. In the audio drama, Draigo reluctantly takes the position of Supreme Grand Master so that he may challenge Mortarion to a duel with the knowledge of Mortarion's true name locked in his subconscious to be used at the right moment which was after he got the snot beat out of him by Mortarion. Mortarion lets his guard down for a second and Draigo uses the true name to banish the daemonic part of Mortarion leaving him a husk on the ground but Mortarion still can't be killed because of his attachment to the warp so Draigo humiliates him instead. So it wasn't Draigo being a gary stue badass to defeat him but a standard daemon banishment which is the weakness one gets for becoming a daemon prince.

**pm713**

Wouldn't Mortarion still be a Primarch without the Daemon part?

**Envihon**

It is explained in the audio drama that once Mortarion became a Daemon Prince that he let the warp consume him and become more of a creature of the warp than a man of material space but with retaining some of his humanity, he can keep a tethered line to the material world just in case something like what Draigo did to him happens so his physical part became a husk of it's former glory as the powers of Nurgle did their thing on Mortarion's body.

**Wyzilla**

Envihon wrote:
Mysterious Pants wrote:

Leman Russ randomly decided to take a vacation into the Eye of Terror. You might think he's dead, but consider it like this: a lousy friggin' Grey Knight Terminator (Draigo) has managed to survive inside the Eye of Terror. A Primarch is far more kickass than any Grey Knight, and so I'm sure Russ is all right. Russ was also the only primarch who ever had an official non-forgeworld miniature made of him. Russ is awesome.
.

Hey, Draigo is not just any GK in terminator armor. He defeated Mortarion, a primarch so he is more than just a simple GK but I agree if Draigo is just stopping around the Warp, I think that Russ and Corax can survive it as well.

That actually got fixed in the recent Grey Knights audiodrama. Draigo got the gak kicked out of him and came close to dying, but he used a psyker power to effectively poke Morty in the eyes to distract him, then ripped his daemon name out of his mind while he was distracted. Morty then exploded when it was uttered- but both parties knew he'd be back later and angry as hell. Draigo then picked Morty's heart off the ground and scribbled his master's name into it and called it a day.

**Envihon**

Wyzilla wrote:
Envihon wrote:
Mysterious Pants wrote:

Leman Russ randomly decided to take a vacation into the Eye of Terror. You might think he's dead, but consider it like this: a lousy friggin' Grey Knight Terminator (Draigo) has managed to survive inside the Eye of Terror. A Primarch is far more kickass than any Grey Knight, and so I'm sure Russ is all right. Russ was also the only primarch who ever had an official non-forgeworld miniature made of him. Russ is awesome.
.

Hey, Draigo is not just any GK in terminator armor. He defeated Mortarion, a primarch so he is more than just a simple GK but I agree if Draigo is just stopping around the Warp, I think that Russ and Corax can survive it as well.

That actually got fixed in the recent Grey Knights audiodrama. Draigo got the gak kicked out of him and came close to dying, but he used a psyker power to effectively poke Morty in the eyes to distract him, then ripped his daemon name out of his mind while he was distracted. Morty then exploded when it was uttered- but both parties knew he'd be back later and angry as hell. Draigo then picked Morty's heart off the ground and scribbled his master's name into it and called it a day.

We have been discussing that exact thing past the original response.

**Wyzilla**

Envihon wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:
Envihon wrote:
Mysterious Pants wrote:

Leman Russ randomly decided to take a vacation into the Eye of Terror. You might think he's dead, but consider it like this: a lousy friggin' Grey Knight Terminator (Draigo) has managed to survive inside the Eye of Terror. A Primarch is far more kickass than any Grey Knight, and so I'm sure Russ is all right. Russ was also the only primarch who ever had an official non-forgeworld miniature made of him. Russ is awesome.
.

Hey, Draigo is not just any GK in terminator armor. He defeated Mortarion, a primarch so he is more than just a simple GK but I agree if Draigo is just stopping around the Warp, I think that Russ and Corax can survive it as well.

That actually got fixed in the recent Grey Knights audiodrama. Draigo got the gak kicked out of him and came close to dying, but he used a psyker power to effectively poke Morty in the eyes to distract him, then ripped his daemon name out of his mind while he was distracted. Morty then exploded when it was uttered- but both parties knew he'd be back later and angry as hell. Draigo then picked Morty's heart off the ground and scribbled his master's name into it and called it a day.

We have been discussing that exact thing past the original response.

I also don't know why killing a daemon primarch would be a big deal- they're a Daemon Prince, it's not like they're dead if you kill one, they're just banished. The only concern is how much of a Gary Stu Draigo is.

**Buttons**

Mysterious Pants wrote:
Happyjew wrote:
Mysterious Pants - Russ is more than alright. He went into the Eye, entered the bar he saw and has been drinking ever since. Due to his refusal to leave (and as a Primarch he is kickass enough that the Daemon proprietors can't (or won't) kick him out), Corax went in to pull him out.

Damn straight.

All the smart Primarchs went scarce right after the heresy, so that they could be around for the big schbang at the end times. The ones that lingered around doing stuff wound up killed in surprisingly stupid ways.

I hate all the primarchs that just wandered off. They pretty much abandoned the Imperium. Guilliman may have died, but he helped hold the Imperium together following the Heresy and the Imperium would be doing much better if one of the level headed primarchs like Corax or Dorn were still around.

**Happyjew**

Russ did not just wander off. He was challenged to a drinking contest. It just hasn't finished yet.

**kerikhaos**

cammy wrote:
for those who are intrested in legions 2 and 11

from the Sigillite audio book cover

What is that image suggesting? That that's a member of one of the lost chapters?

**Happyjew**

No, it is suggesting that if you continue with the inquiries that the Imperial Inquisition will feth you up.

**MasterSlowPoke**

kerikhaos wrote:
cammy wrote:
for those who are intrested in legions 2 and 11

from the Sigillite audio book cover

What is that image suggesting? That that's a member of one of the lost chapters?

His throne has the numbers of the lost legions on the arm rests.