Sorry I know there is the monster thread going on about 7th rumors, but since we all know its coming out now, I was wondering if anyone knew WHY. It seems really soon after DV, and while I am not crazy about everything in 6th, it still seemed to look like it was going well. I am not a hardcore 40k player like most of you, so I dont know whats wrong with the current version. I mean, I assume there must be issues if GW is doing this. Can anyone name a few reasons why this might be a good thing? What is terribly wrong with 6th?
They're desperate to make their profit margin look good for their shareholders.
A new edition will bump sales because apparently the SM dex and knights (which sold amazingly well) wasn't enough.
MWHistorian wrote: They're desperate to make their profit margin look good for their shareholders.
A new edition will bump sales because apparently the SM dex and knights (which sold amazingly well) wasn't enough.
Will it? At the point I and my group are at, it's most likely most of us will either totally ignore the new edition, or get a freebie along the line, stick it on our phones and call it a digital edition.
EDIT: It helps that both GW stores near me have banned in-store games, as they've been reduced to three tables: One for newbie 40k, one for newbie fantasy [but it's become a diorama now, because the areas avoid fantasy like the plague for some reason], and on for newbie painting. Which is rather ironic considering the past few years, not a single new player has passed through the entrance.
KTG17 wrote: I assume there must be issues if GW is doing this.
Why do you assume that?
Because they said 6th was going to last a long time so they could update all the codexes for 6th.
Because their last financial report wasn't good and caused many shareholders to sell off stock.
Because it's coming in so close on the heels of 6th edition. (less than two years.)
Because it fits their pattern of rapid short term money grabs at the expense of building and keeping their player base.
IMO, im not marketing or economist expert, but it would be to drop the prices on all their units, encourage people to build bigger armies, play larger games, collect more.
Right now people are being so picky and choosy about what they buy or what army to start because it so freaking expensive to build one, that if you buy a tac squad then find out its garbo, your are out 40 bucks.
KTG17 wrote: I assume there must be issues if GW is doing this.
Why do you assume that?
Because they said 6th was going to last a long time so they could update all the codexes for 6th.
Not disputing this, MWHistorian, but can you provide a source for this? I vaguely recall reading that at some point, and it would be damning justification for my brewing hate of 7th edition .
IMO, im not marketing or economist expert, but it would be to drop the prices on all their units, encourage people to build bigger armies, play larger games, collect more.
Right now people are being so picky and choosy about what they buy or what army to start because it so freaking expensive to build one, that if you buy a tac squad then find out its garbo, your are out 40 bucks.
I haven't ever really minded the price of 40k as much, because pretty much any wargame is going to have a very high cost. As far as I can tell the 40k models are priced competitively with 28mm models from other companies that aren't Mantic, but you need a lot more 40k models than you do models from most other 28mm games in order to have a functional army. I will admit my experience with 28mm wargames is kind of limited (historical games aren't something I've looked at) so I could be totally wrong.
It could also have something to do with the fact that GW miniatures are actually really detailed and have tons of pieces and options relative to a lot of other companies. I know that the first time I opened a box from a non-GW miniatures company I was greeted by a plastic bag full of loose parts and no instructions. That was a very eye opening experience.
What bothers me is that some people are optimistic that this will be a solid edition and fix problems from 6th.
Does anybody realize how many books the GW design studio has released in the last two years? I think it was 22 army books over the course of 24 months. Does anybody actually believe that the people who wrote the DA flyers of the CSM Mutilators had enough time to write the 6th ed book, then two army books, and plan it all out for a new edition just a short while away? While releasing many other armies and supplements?
I have no faith that this will fell like anything other than a rushed release with rushed rules with rushed fixes.
People forget that most model lines are single pose no optional parts models. GW almost gives you a whole free model in optional parts for each model in a box. There's a reason people do loads of conversions and its because we've loads of parts. Other ranges don't do that, even Privateer Press has only recently started with their newish plastics line.
Also GW models in the UK Are pretty fairly priced; overseas in places like Australia there can be a bigger gap, but often as now GW is not the only company with the price increase (indeed Ozland has importing problems which causes many companies to raise relative prices in that region - for what reason I hear multiple arguments for but in general there is a reason).
People (internet people) are oft quick to wish GW to die; mostly they are people who either think that by saying it enough GW will do what they (the player) wants; or they are simply bored of the game, but unwilling to admit that part of that isn't necessarily GW, but that their own tastes and desires have change.d
I do also agree, GW games have always been larger scale - if you want 5 models aside you go for Infinity or Malifaux; if you want more you look toward Hordes or Warmachine - if you want loads its GW or Mantic (and honestly Mantic have some good ideas, but I'm not as much a fan of their design and artistic direction).
GW could do themselves a lot of favours if they released some small scale hero focused rules editions - not even new models (just us existing 40K/Fantasy hero models) ; just a rules setup that lets people get into the GW game and miniature range at the smaller scale. They've done this in the past so they can certainly do it all again if they want.
Savageconvoy wrote: What bothers me is that some people are optimistic that this will be a solid edition and fix problems from 6th.
Does anybody realize how many books the GW design studio has released in the last two years? I think it was 22 army books over the course of 24 months. Does anybody actually believe that the people who wrote the DA flyers of the CSM Mutilators had enough time to write the 6th ed book, then two army books, and plan it all out for a new edition just a short while away? While releasing many other armies and supplements?
I have no faith that this will fell like anything other than a rushed release with rushed rules with rushed fixes.
This.
I've put my current To Buy list on hold until the book comes out. I'll pick that up, play a couple games, then decide on whether I'm going to stay. I'll stay if 7e is on par with 6e; if it's worse, well, I'll just box everything up until 8e hits next year...
I grew up during what I consider GW's Golden Age, where they had a bunch of games going on, besides 40k and WFB, like Man O War, Warhammer Quest, Necromunda, Epic, etc, and to be honest I think GW just focusing on three games hurts them in the long run. The reason I say this is because as gamers, we're interested in trying different games. Over the years I collected a ton of games, and some of my favorite games are non-GW, but I also have those older GW games too. The point is that while I was still into 40k, I bought lots of games, including just about all GWs, but to be honest as much as I love the 40k setting, I just sick of it. Especially the rules too.
To me, opening a new game box is like opening a door to a new universe. I feel like a kid on christmas. So even tho GW has been cranking out so many army books lately, I haven't been interested in collecting them. I wasnt even interested in the new Space Marine stuff. The quality is superb, but I am just bored with it. I am not into WFB, and I hate LOTR/Hobbit.
So what do I spend my money on? Mostly buying stuff for my other games on Ebay. If GW put out more variety I would probably buy those games as new games are exciting, but its almost like they are telling me not to spend money on them, and I am not the customer they are looking for. I actually think they are in fantasy land if they think the average gamer is going to construct epic sized armies in 28mm scale, especially with these rules.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I want to add that I really liked the 6th ed set, and didnt expand much on what came in it. I will prob stick with it. And I am def not buying 7th if its got a stripped down rulebook while the new main one runs around $100 as I hear. I dont need a 500 page rulebook either. Geez, who does?
Overread wrote: Also GW models in the UK Are pretty fairly priced; overseas in places like Australia there can be a bigger gap, but often as now GW is not the only company with the price increase (indeed Ozland has importing problems which causes many companies to raise relative prices in that region - for what reason I hear multiple arguments for but in general there is a reason).
I live there. I can honestly say GW are the only ones doing it. Some charge more than you'd expect but stay in that nice 'affordable' bracket, but none hit the obscene amounts GW expect us to pay. What compounds it is models needed as well. GW is the only game where, buying retail, we're paying $500-$750, sometimes up to $1000 depending on the army, for a 'standard' sized army. Their prices here are absolutely obscene.
My Tyranid army, if bought at current retail prices, would cost about $1000au. Without a codex or rulebook or any modelling supplies to build and paint it, nor any terrain to use in a game.
It's 1500pts.
A good example is the comment that often gets said - who pays $120 for a rulebook?
Overread wrote: Also GW models in the UK Are pretty fairly priced; overseas in places like Australia there can be a bigger gap, but often as now GW is not the only company with the price increase (indeed Ozland has importing problems which causes many companies to raise relative prices in that region - for what reason I hear multiple arguments for but in general there is a reason).
I live there. I can honestly say GW are the only ones doing it. Some charge more than you'd expect but stay in that nice 'affordable' bracket, but none hit the obscene amounts GW expect us to pay. What compounds it is models needed as well. GW is the only game where, buying retail, we're paying $500-$750, sometimes up to $1000 depending on the army, for a 'standard' sized army. Their prices here are absolutely obscene.
My Tyranid army, if bought at current retail prices, would cost about $1000au. Without a codex or rulebook or any modelling supplies to build and paint it, nor any terrain to use in a game.
It's 1500pts.
A good example is the comment that often gets said - who pays $120 for a rulebook?
We do in Australia.
As a fellow Australian I have to second this. While some FLGSs might have a small mark up on non-GW I've never felt cheated at all. When I look at the 15% off prices my FLGS gives for GW and compare that to American pricing I can't feel anything but cheated.
IMO, im not marketing or economist expert, but it would be to drop the prices on all their units, encourage people to build bigger armies, play larger games, collect more.
Right now people are being so picky and choosy about what they buy or what army to start because it so freaking expensive to build one, that if you buy a tac squad then find out its garbo, your are out 40 bucks.
I haven't ever really minded the price of 40k as much, because pretty much any wargame is going to have a very high cost. As far as I can tell the 40k models are priced competitively with 28mm models from other companies that aren't Mantic, but you need a lot more 40k models than you do models from most other 28mm games in order to have a functional army. I will admit my experience with 28mm wargames is kind of limited (historical games aren't something I've looked at) so I could be totally wrong.
It could also have something to do with the fact that GW miniatures are actually really detailed and have tons of pieces and options relative to a lot of other companies. I know that the first time I opened a box from a non-GW miniatures company I was greeted by a plastic bag full of loose parts and no instructions. That was a very eye opening experience.
Perhaps this is a symptom of living in Australia and having seen GWs pricing here but I absolutely disagree.
For the same price as a GW rulebook and codex I can get:
An average sized infinity army (technically better sculpts in every way), rules are free.
An average sized Dystopian Wars fleet and rulebook (totally different scale but the details are much smaller and clearer so again, technically better imo).
Or
The rules and enough models for not one but TWO above average X wing forces.
So I simply don't see the hobby as that expensive, its just a couple of hundred bucks here and there. GW on the other hand have priced themselves right out of the market and I am sure that is at least partly the reason they are scrambling for some quick cash before the next report.
It could be because the invisible pink unicorn told them in a dream to do it.
So long as we're speculating, I'm going to say that the illuminati, which caused the US government to assassinate JFK and cause 9/11, worked though chinese campaign donors to secretly elect a kenyan muslim to the US presidency so that he could use fascism to promote freemasonry's attempt to get the US to launch a secret invasion of the bermuda triangle to search for UFO's.
It could be because the invisible pink unicorn told them in a dream to do it.
So long as we're speculating, I'm going to say that the illuminati, which caused the US government to assassinate JFK and cause 9/11, worked though chinese campaign donors to secretly elect a kenyan muslim to the US presidency so that he could use fascism to promote freemasonry's attempt to get the US to launch a secret invasion of the bermuda triangle to search for UFO's.
Except we know that GWs sales have fallen by over 10% in the last report and where on the decline for years before that...
It could be because the invisible pink unicorn told them in a dream to do it.
So long as we're speculating, I'm going to say that the illuminati, which caused the US government to assassinate JFK and cause 9/11, worked though chinese campaign donors to secretly elect a kenyan muslim to the US presidency so that he could use fascism to promote freemasonry's attempt to get the US to launch a secret invasion of the bermuda triangle to search for UFO's.
Except we know that GWs sales have fallen by over 10% in the last report and where on the decline for years before that...
And patterns have formed over time that can be read.
Don't be a donkey.
Yes, I am aware of that concept, but all that other crap you were on about is entirely unnecessary. Yes it is a guess that this is because of a bad report, but it is an educated guess with some merit to it, unlike you're deliberately obsurd example.
A single data point does not a convincing argument make. Especially when it's wrapped up in a post-hoc fallacy.
It would be easier to be indignant about someone pointing out the crappiness of one's arguments, if one didn't put forward such crappy arguments.
7th edition will come out because of the reasons they came out with 7th edition, not because of wishful thinking and rampant speculation from the peanut gallery, no matter how educated they claim their guesses are.
There has to be a reason fir GW breaking its 4 year cycle.
They have shown time and again they don't care much (if at all) about the state of the rules and have no interest in adjusting them with the help of customer feedback.
What other reason do you propose other that a quick cash grab (which is not outside their short term business strategy at all I might add) to cover a report whose first half caused the companies share price to drop 25% overnight and have its largest investor pull out?
Its speculation, but I haven't heard a better theory yet.
Who knows why there is 7th ed now? One can rattle off any number of reasons. Money, 6th 2 shooty (orks and blood coming soon per rumors), glaring mistakes, Deathstar armies f'in up the fun...... Who knows. Its coming and who knows why and what it brings.
I wont buy right away. Let the dust settle and borrow a copy at the local club. 18 month old daughter in my house kinda over rules gaming books.
6th ed sucked so much for so many armies that players stopped buying more models and rulebooks because they'd rather quit than buy a whole new army to be able to play without being required to be a "master tactician" to get what they have to work.
I know so SO many people that quit shortly after 6th and havent bought a model since. Because 6th edition killed their already "weaker than average" army to the point where they cant play it unless everything goes perfectly according to plan.
New edition releases, old players come back thinking maybe things have changed to help their army be viable again. I will be very, very surprised if they dont revamp close combat from the ground up since 6th ed killed it so, so badly.
Except GW have shown on multiple occasions they are unaware of the wider meta, design the game in a way they like rather than a balanced way, and don't care about customer feed back.
I don't for a minute believe GW are brining out a new edition to fix 6th, so a quick cash grab is the next most likely option.
I'll be honest. I enjoyed the gak out of 6th. But my group didn't go berserk with new combos, didn't touch allies, and I'm the only one who ever used a flyer (a flying Tyrant). Just using our 5th edition armies exactly as they were in 5th edition is super duper fun for us.
The main reason we've soured on 40k and moved to Infinity is simply the price here in Australia, and the pace of new releases. It's just gotten completely out of control. Prices (as I mentioned above) are just absolutely insane. My Tyranid example would have bought me 2 Warmachine armies, 5 Infinity armies, more than half a dozen Malifaux crews, multiple Dropzone Commander armies... It's just absurd.
Keeping up with the pace of releases has almost become a job. While we weren't happy with the dearth of releases in 5th, in typical GW fashion they swung the pendulum too far the other way and just went bonkers with releases.
However, playing 40k with our 5th edition stuff is still absolutely fun. We just wish it were possible to keep up with the new stuff both time and money wise. When a new edition releases and you want the new stuff, but that's going to cost you $200-$300 at least, it's just not worth it anymore.
I have no faith that this will fell like anything other than a rushed release with rushed rules with rushed fixes.
Well, considering that they seemed to have spent months trying to accurately unbalance 6th ed so that they could sell more new stuff, maybe 7th will accidentally be good.
Then again, it is more likely that it'll be a pile of trash, and not be worth the plasticised paper its printed on.
Savageconvoy wrote: What bothers me is that some people are optimistic that this will be a solid edition and fix problems from 6th.
Does anybody realize how many books the GW design studio has released in the last two years? I think it was 22 army books over the course of 24 months. Does anybody actually believe that the people who wrote the DA flyers of the CSM Mutilators had enough time to write the 6th ed book, then two army books, and plan it all out for a new edition just a short while away? While releasing many other armies and supplements?
I have no faith that this will fell like anything other than a rushed release with rushed rules with rushed fixes.
This.
I've put my current To Buy list on hold until the book comes out. I'll pick that up, play a couple games, then decide on whether I'm going to stay. I'll stay if 7e is on par with 6e; if it's worse, well, I'll just box everything up until 8e hits next year...
Or enjoy the £45 you spent on the 6e BRB, and keep playing with it...
6th ed sucked so much for so many armies that players stopped buying more models and rulebooks because they'd rather quit than buy a whole new army to be able to play without being required to be a "master tactician" to get what they have to work.
I know so SO many people that quit shortly after 6th and havent bought a model since. Because 6th edition killed their already "weaker than average" army to the point where they cant play it unless everything goes perfectly according to plan.
Namely CSM, Orks, Nids.
And all non-shooty-spam of all other armies. Which seem to be centered around one or two units that seemingly everyone needs to have to stay competitive...
Except guard. All variations of guard are acceptable.
Makumba wrote: I play guard since 5th. 6th was not a very fun time to me. Not pre codex and not post codex.
May I ask why?
Every time I've seen IG on the field, both players had a whale of a time.
Makumba's group is apparently some hyper-comp one that ditches their armies whenever they're less than top tier to buy the new FOTM and doesn't give one feth about modeling or lore.
It's not something I'd have fun with but whatever floats her boat.
-Loki- wrote: Keeping up with the pace of releases has almost become a job. While we weren't happy with the dearth of releases in 5th, in typical GW fashion they swung the pendulum too far the other way and just went bonkers with releases.
It's kinda funny to read that, because some time ago I heard "GW is slacking!", "Slow releases!", "Everything's getting boring!" and "Y U NO RELEASE STUFF?" and now I hear "GW is releasing too fast!", "Can't keep up!", "Too dynamic, hard to adapt to changes!" and "Y U NO SLOW DOWN?".
In all honesty, so many people whined about 40k/WFB being stagnant and boring, now GW changed the pace so everyone can be happy with their armies, even trying to please both WFB and 40k players and what happens? People whine because the meta changes constantly, making it more of a challenge for players. Accuse me of being a GW Apologist or blind fanboy/idiot all you want, but I really am somewhat concerned about the community seeing how negative it is, no matter what happens. Of course the price hikes and poorly balanced books are an annoyance, which lead to Allies Chart abuse, but there's no pleasing for the 40k community.
Books coming out too slowly, game stagnant! <----> Books coming out too fast, can't keep up!
6th ed sucks, it's the worst, go die in hell, GW! <----> 7th ed with hotfixes? God, we want 6th to stay!
My army's new book doesn't change anything! <----> With every next book for my army I have to adapt and buy new stuff!
I know that some people raise valid points, but to me at the moment it seems that no matter what GW does, the community will never be pleased. The new IG book is a great example as it is fairly balanced, brought some changes to IG armies and kept the old feel. Now things I heard about it(aside those few that could admit that it's one of the best books in 6th ed(not in terms of power), now here's what I read:
-Oh noes, vendetta got a rightful point cost nerf! I can't spam the cheese anymoar, oh woe!
-Oh noes, I have to adjust my army I've been playing for years, the horror! I'll have to change my army list a bit..!
-Oh noes, they didn't fix any of the old, unplayable units!(while this one is fairly true for Ogryns and Rough Riders, they actually made Armoured Sentinels viable with point cost drops; also - like any other book made formerly unplayable models playable now).
You know what's worst? All those doomsayers on their high horses predicting that new edition will be gak and will kill 40k.. and if it doesn't, they'll just move the date of GW's/40k's death a bit further, not aknowledging that they were wrong. Like those end of the world maniacs predicting the apocalypse over and over, and when it doesn't happen, they just keep repeating the same crap after some time, knowing that THIS TIME THEY WILL BE RIGHT! Kinda reminds me of saying "traffic light will switch now! No.. now! Now! ... NOW! No- YES, I'm a wizard!"
jonolikespie wrote: The release will fall just before the end of financial year and GWs half year report was so bad their share price fell 25% over night.
^This.
They are releasing faster than ever. And they are mostly copy-pasting previous stuff, with just a few (quite radical) changes to justify buying it. They can do it at nearly zero cost and it may give them a lot of money. So why not?
By the way, I don´t think they are trying to "address the problems" or anything. First it will be impossible to satisfy all the fans at this points with anything else than a 100% reboot. And second they have said many times the game is not to be taken that seriously.
I sort of like it this way, actually. They release stuff, players use it as they please.
It's no wonder their sales have decreased when you can buy all the same models 2-3 times cheaper (with shipping allready included in price) from china online stores with somewhere around-the-same quality. I know, they're investing alot and do quite an amount of hard work. But to be honest, i'd go on a more extensive route considering selling models.
The point is that production cost per model is comparable to or even less than factored development cost. Total production cost scales with the ammount of models you produce. Total development cost does not. So, why not sell 2 times more models for equal ammount of money? The profit will be a bit less per those sales cause you invest more in production and quality controle BUT more people will afford this hobby.
You know, it's a huge factor. When a teenager or a not-so rich working man looks at a price tag and sees that to collect a medium-sized ork force he'll have to spend a bare minimum of 1k $ before painting he thinks to himself: "How much? For a bunch of plastic soldiers?!!".
Let more people into hobby. WH40k is a well known universe. And if it wasn't so expensive to buy, there'd be way more tabletop players.
However, their analizers might be not fools either. Probably, i'm wrong and such prices are a minimum they can afford not to loose money themselves.
-Loki- wrote: Keeping up with the pace of releases has almost become a job. While we weren't happy with the dearth of releases in 5th, in typical GW fashion they swung the pendulum too far the other way and just went bonkers with releases.
It's kinda funny to read that, because some time ago I heard "GW is slacking!", "Slow releases!", "Everything's getting boring!" and "Y U NO RELEASE STUFF?" and now I hear "GW is releasing too fast!", "Can't keep up!", "Too dynamic, hard to adapt to changes!" and "Y U NO SLOW DOWN?".
In all honesty, so many people whined about 40k/WFB being stagnant and boring, now GW changed the pace so everyone can be happy with their armies, even trying to please both WFB and 40k players and what happens? People whine because the meta changes constantly, making it more of a challenge for players. Accuse me of being a GW Apologist or blind fanboy/idiot all you want, but I really am somewhat concerned about the community seeing how negative it is, no matter what happens. Of course the price hikes and poorly balanced books are an annoyance, which lead to Allies Chart abuse, but there's no pleasing for the 40k community.
Books coming out too slowly, game stagnant! <----> Books coming out too fast, can't keep up!
6th ed sucks, it's the worst, go die in hell, GW! <----> 7th ed with hotfixes? God, we want 6th to stay!
My army's new book doesn't change anything! <----> With every next book for my army I have to adapt and buy new stuff!
I know that some people raise valid points, but to me at the moment it seems that no matter what GW does, the community will never be pleased. The new IG book is a great example as it is fairly balanced, brought some changes to IG armies and kept the old feel. Now things I heard about it(aside those few that could admit that it's one of the best books in 6th ed(not in terms of power), now here's what I read:
-Oh noes, vendetta got a rightful point cost nerf! I can't spam the cheese anymoar, oh woe!
-Oh noes, I have to adjust my army I've been playing for years, the horror! I'll have to change my army list a bit..!
-Oh noes, they didn't fix any of the old, unplayable units!(while this one is fairly true for Ogryns and Rough Riders, they actually made Armoured Sentinels viable with point cost drops; also - like any other book made formerly unplayable models playable now).
You know what's worst? All those doomsayers on their high horses predicting that new edition will be gak and will kill 40k.. and if it doesn't, they'll just move the date of GW's/40k's death a bit further, not aknowledging that they were wrong. Like those end of the world maniacs predicting the apocalypse over and over, and when it doesn't happen, they just keep repeating the same crap after some time, knowing that THIS TIME THEY WILL BE RIGHT! Kinda reminds me of saying "traffic light will switch now! No.. now! Now! ... NOW! No- YES, I'm a wizard!"
What you are experiencing is a community made up of multiple people with multiple opinions. Not an internet hive-mind. When people complain, they like other people to hear it. When they're satisfied, they don't generally care enough to post around everywhere "GUYS IM LIKE SOMEWHAT SATISFIED." So what you heard before was mostly hypothetical group A, and on the right is hypothetical group B, which you seem to have assumed, probably incorrectly, that they were all the same people. There may even be a third group that you heard both times that was wanting a happy medium in between the two times and never got it.
I'm amazed at how often I have to explain this to people on the internet.
Well, there are sure lots of problems in 6 ed. Tons of problems i'd say. Way more than in 5-th. But i'm afraid that's not the main factor of creating a new edition. Let's see.
In all honesty, so many people whined about 40k/WFB being stagnant and boring, now GW changed the pace so everyone can be happy with their armies, even trying to please both WFB and 40k players and what happens? People whine because the meta changes constantly, making it more of a challenge for players. Accuse me of being a GW Apologist or blind fanboy/idiot all you want, but I really am somewhat concerned about the community seeing how negative it is, no matter what happens. Of course the price hikes and poorly balanced books are an annoyance, which lead to Allies Chart abuse, but there's no pleasing for the 40k community.
It's almost as if the 40k community is made up of different people with different desires and opinions.
Or it could be that people are happy with the pace, but not happy with what comes out. Or it could be that they are not happy with the quality of what comes out. Or it could be that they are not happy about the cost increase of being actively involved in 40k.
I sort of like it this way, actually. They release stuff, players use it as they please.
And then you get that one nob who has to take everything *X-tra srs*, and the whole group falls apart.
Or your army-at-heart (like CSM) cannot win a game without everyone seriously holding back. Even casual fun games need some sort of balance.
I think we reached a point of no return with that some time ago.
Imagine the game as a car. The car already lost its seats and lights, and the engine exploded some time ago, killing most of the passengers and setting others on fire. Sure, they are taking out the wheels now, but who cares? It has been a long while since the car was fit to use
At this point, if your group is not taking control of TFG-"this is serious business" nobs spamming superunit X, your group has already fallen. (Or has embraced the madness, if you are all rich enough and the arms race the game has become is your thing). And if you play fluffy CSM (or fluffy nids, or most lists for that matter), and you are not tweaking the game to give it some balance... well, good luck with that.
If your group is not fixing the game at this moment, I don´t know what are you waiting for.
Well I guess I like the release schedule, cause it does make things interesting to follow even if I have no interest in buying, but to be honest, this most cost GW some serious coin too. And not everyone plays Eldar so they are only going to sell so many Wraith Knights. I think this hurts them too. Its like, they are over-producing themselves to death.
Automatically Appended Next Post: You know, if the rules didnt change, I would be up for a new starter set like every year. Like if DV was followed up with another set with 2 different starter armies with the same rulebook, I would buy it. But I can see how each new rulebook is going to have an effect on an existing codex, and if a codex was good in one edition, and then not in the other, and you are still paying the same in points per model, I can see how the whole thing can be frustrating to keep up with.
I wish something could be done with the codexes. I do think they are rather complex, and prob hurt the game as much as each edition of the rules go.
I think some people forget that this new edition has probably been in the pipeline for at least 6 months to a year when you consider stuff like graphic design and sending things to the printer, etc. By that I mean that its entirely possible that stuff going back to the Space Marine Codex may have been designed to follow in line with the new design philosophy. If that is the case then maybe it could explain some of the odd prices or inclusions on what we consider substandard units. Maybe this could mean a big boost to Nids, maybe this will make my beloved AM even more ungodly awesome! Point being this thing did not appear out of thin air, Someone has been watching 6th and other things and has said "hmmm we better do something about that" and that may be the drive behind their design philosophy. Maybe just maybe D weapons will be adjusted among other changes, we really dont know, but since the 2 flagships of this new eidition are BA and Orks, im going to say that CC will get some sort of boost, since im sure they learned that making your flagship armies (DA and Chaos) suck is not good for sales.
generalchaos34 wrote: I think some people forget that this new edition has probably been in the pipeline for at least 6 months to a year when you consider stuff like graphic design and sending things to the printer, etc. By that I mean that its entirely possible that stuff going back to the Space Marine Codex may have been designed to follow in line with the new design philosophy...
generalchaos34 wrote: I think some people forget that this new edition has probably been in the pipeline for at least 6 months to a year when you consider stuff like graphic design and sending things to the printer, etc.
Well, aside from that meaning it took them only a year and a half to decide to kill 6th edition - KILL IT WITH FIRE!!! - I feel the need to correct something here. Graphic design and such do NOT take as long as you think. Especially when you have as many people working on it as GW do. They've been able to throw out gobs of stuff in print and digital rapidly. They have plenty of artwork already. Basically, they already had the vast majority of the work needed done already. It's not that hard, then, to take and assemble all of that together into a book and print it.
At the company I work for, we have multiple brands we sell stuff through. One of them has over 20,000 items in the catalog, a catalog so thick that you could seriously kill a person if you hit them with it. All of those items need descriptions, pricing, and the whole thing needs laid out right. This year, our advertising team redid the catalog to include more items than before, in a new layout that allowed them to put more items per page and fewer pages overall (but still, seriously, don't get smacked with one of these things). And you know what? It didn't take them six months. It can't take them that long because we don't have that kind of time.
The maximum time it'd take GW to get that stuff together is two months, given the staff they have. They can pull together everything, have different people working on different sections, create any new graphics they have, and toss it to a printer who can churn out thousands of copies in a time that would surprise you.
And if they'd been working on it as long as you say, it means Escalation and Stronghold Assault were even more blatant cash-grabs than they already were, because they were planning to replace them already by the time they released them.
generalchaos34 wrote: I think some people forget that this new edition has probably been in the pipeline for at least 6 months to a year when you consider stuff like graphic design and sending things to the printer, etc.
Well, aside from that meaning it took them only a year and a half to decide to kill 6th edition - KILL IT WITH FIRE!!! - I feel the need to correct something here. Graphic design and such do NOT take as long as you think. Especially when you have as many people working on it as GW do. They've been able to throw out gobs of stuff in print and digital rapidly. They have plenty of artwork already. Basically, they already had the vast majority of the work needed done already. It's not that hard, then, to take and assemble all of that together into a book and print it.
At the company I work for, we have multiple brands we sell stuff through. One of them has over 20,000 items in the catalog, a catalog so thick that you could seriously kill a person if you hit them with it. All of those items need descriptions, pricing, and the whole thing needs laid out right. This year, our advertising team redid the catalog to include more items than before, in a new layout that allowed them to put more items per page and fewer pages overall (but still, seriously, don't get smacked with one of these things). And you know what? It didn't take them six months. It can't take them that long because we don't have that kind of time.
The maximum time it'd take GW to get that stuff together is two months, given the staff they have. They can pull together everything, have different people working on different sections, create any new graphics they have, and toss it to a printer who can churn out thousands of copies in a time that would surprise you.
And if they'd been working on it as long as you say, it means Escalation and Stronghold Assault were even more blatant cash-grabs than they already were, because they were planning to replace them already by the time they released them.
Also helps quite a bit of their art is old images.
koooaei wrote: Well, there are sure lots of problems in 6 ed. Tons of problems i'd say. Way more than in 5-th. But i'm afraid that's not the main factor of creating a new edition. Let's see.
I don't think 6th is that bad. The Allies rules are ruinous, of course, but things like opportunity fire and variable charge distances are perfectly reasonable game mechanisms unless your army suffers badly because of them.
There are a lot of complaints about balance, as always. This has got worse because of Allies and Dataslates, not because of the core game rules.
A lot of people don't like Escalation being crammed into the game. It was fine as an option (Apocalypse.)
I thought the reception to 6th edition was quite good at first.
The biggest detractors were flyers, which not everyone likes, and allies, which people feared would lead to rules abuse (which they have).
6th was also rumored to be one of the longer-lasting editions. I mean, the rules are on their 6th iteration, you'd think they'd be close to the target GW was aiming for them. The fact that 7th is coming out so soon seems to speak that GW has no real goal for new rules other than the reap the maximum benefit of purchases, and that is very frustrating.
EDIT: also going with everything Killkrazy said above me, it's all spot-on.
wuestenfux wrote: Well, I'm a bit disappointed that GW is not able to provide a stable core set of rules over a longer time period.
Look at PP and WM/H for instance, they moved from MKI to MKII in 2011 or so. The game has a lot of variety due to factions and casters.
And the difference is that both of those companies are privately owned and have strategies of building for the long term.
GW is driven by one thing: share price, which means their strategy is to turn as much profit from quarter to quarter. Putting out garbage rules in no way impedes their business approach, and it's cheaper than putting out quality rules (less development time/money), so they have no reason to change. In fact, spending less time on developing individual rule books actually helps their bottom line because it means they can move onto the next thing quicker. So GW's strategy is actually in line with putting out lousy rules.
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the developers themselves are good people, and genuinely want to put out the best product they can, they are just managed in a way that makes that impossible, and management currently does not have any reason to change as long as we all keep buying this garbage.
-Loki- wrote: Keeping up with the pace of releases has almost become a job. While we weren't happy with the dearth of releases in 5th, in typical GW fashion they swung the pendulum too far the other way and just went bonkers with releases.
It's kinda funny to read that, because some time ago I heard "GW is slacking!", "Slow releases!", "Everything's getting boring!" and "Y U NO RELEASE STUFF?" and now I hear "GW is releasing too fast!", "Can't keep up!", "Too dynamic, hard to adapt to changes!" and "Y U NO SLOW DOWN?".
In all honesty, so many people whined about 40k/WFB being stagnant and boring, now GW changed the pace so everyone can be happy with their armies, even trying to please both WFB and 40k players and what happens? People whine because the meta changes constantly, making it more of a challenge for players. Accuse me of being a GW Apologist or blind fanboy/idiot all you want, but I really am somewhat concerned about the community seeing how negative it is, no matter what happens. Of course the price hikes and poorly balanced books are an annoyance, which lead to Allies Chart abuse, but there's no pleasing for the 40k community.
Books coming out too slowly, game stagnant! <----> Books coming out too fast, can't keep up!
6th ed sucks, it's the worst, go die in hell, GW! <----> 7th ed with hotfixes? God, we want 6th to stay!
My army's new book doesn't change anything! <----> With every next book for my army I have to adapt and buy new stuff!
I know that some people raise valid points, but to me at the moment it seems that no matter what GW does, the community will never be pleased. The new IG book is a great example as it is fairly balanced, brought some changes to IG armies and kept the old feel. Now things I heard about it(aside those few that could admit that it's one of the best books in 6th ed(not in terms of power), now here's what I read:
-Oh noes, vendetta got a rightful point cost nerf! I can't spam the cheese anymoar, oh woe!
-Oh noes, I have to adjust my army I've been playing for years, the horror! I'll have to change my army list a bit..!
-Oh noes, they didn't fix any of the old, unplayable units!(while this one is fairly true for Ogryns and Rough Riders, they actually made Armoured Sentinels viable with point cost drops; also - like any other book made formerly unplayable models playable now).
You know what's worst? All those doomsayers on their high horses predicting that new edition will be gak and will kill 40k.. and if it doesn't, they'll just move the date of GW's/40k's death a bit further, not aknowledging that they were wrong. Like those end of the world maniacs predicting the apocalypse over and over, and when it doesn't happen, they just keep repeating the same crap after some time, knowing that THIS TIME THEY WILL BE RIGHT! Kinda reminds me of saying "traffic light will switch now! No.. now! Now! ... NOW! No- YES, I'm a wizard!"
Here's how I see it:
- a new edition (6e) was needed as 5e had reached the end of it's life.
- 6e introduced certain mechanics and wording which showed that either it hadn't been play tested or that those testers simply didn't explore the realm of what was possible. Hence the need for faq's that did things like rewriting challenges, the SA book to fix buildings, etc.
- GW cranked up their release schedule to finally meet player demands. Yes, some people weren't crazy about this - and we should ignore them; however, those that were finally getting books after 10 years were mostly happy. Unfortunately, the quality of the releases are .. lacking. Ignoring power levels, we have supplements which are inconsistent in how they worked with the parent codex, interesting rule quandries (ie: grav gun cover saves anyone?) - mostly due to inconsistent wording or incomplete thoughts and the Ally system is shown to be fundamentally flawed.
- Compounding this, GW seems intent on bringing Apoc into regular 40k (escalation). Various people try this out and most games boil down to either Rock/Paper/Scissors OR, worse, the result is determined simply by who goes first. This is generally unacceptable.
- Initially FAQs were coming fairly regularly, but anything of substance stopped over a year ago. My "guess" is that FAQs stopped when GW made the decision to put out 7e.
- We get a glimpse through that leaked White Dwarf column of what's coming: Apoc being even more firmly embedded in the game through Unbounded, a Psychic phase which may or may not be a good thing and updates to the Ally table - which we HOPE will reign in some of the problems.
Of course, there are other factors at play here such as:
- Prices which seem to be out of whack with expectations.
- Books being recently released which will likely be deprecated with 7e (Escalation, Stronghold Assault) - this is just a bad way to treat customers.
- Complete lack of a feedback mechanism to tell GW what does and does not work.
- A perceived schism between so called "fluffy" and "tournament" players with regards to the core rules.
Ultimately a bunch of us are extremely skeptical that GW is actually correcting anything. There has been somewhat of an exodus from GW due to issues with the current releases. So, take what you will, but it's not as simple as you suggest.
I sort of like it this way, actually. They release stuff, players use it as they please.
And then you get that one nob who has to take everything *X-tra srs*, and the whole group falls apart.
Or your army-at-heart (like CSM) cannot win a game without everyone seriously holding back. Even casual fun games need some sort of balance.
I think we reached a point of no return with that some time ago.
Imagine the game as a car. The car already lost its seats and lights, and the engine exploded some time ago, killing most of the passengers and setting others on fire. Sure, they are taking out the wheels now, but who cares? It has been a long while since the car was fit to use
At this point, if your group is not taking control of TFG-"this is serious business" nobs spamming superunit X, your group has already fallen. (Or has embraced the madness, if you are all rich enough and the arms race the game has become is your thing). And if you play fluffy CSM (or fluffy nids, or most lists for that matter), and you are not tweaking the game to give it some balance... well, good luck with that.
If your group is not fixing the game at this moment, I don´t know what are you waiting for.
A reason to cry manly tears as I hit my Chaos Lord with a hammer.
Yeah, learning from history is stupid! Just because a bunch of people died when the lava and ash fell on them it doesn't mean that the volcano eruption caused their deaths. Let's all move to Pompeii!
Past performance is an indicator of future results. It's why people stop walking into walls at a young age. Its's the entire basis of science. Empirical analysis and reproducible results.
It fits here. We have known data. Two six month periods of decreased revenues. A LARGE devaluation in stock prices due to sell of after the last financial report. A company that has stated that they have massively reduced it operating expenses (down to the bone!) A tried and true method that has increased revenues in the past. A company that relies on it's revenue stream to prevent further stock sell off. A company changing its past business practices unexpectedly at a time that coincides immediately prior to its third consecutive financial reporting period.
The "Post hoc, ergo propter hoc" logical fallacy does sometimes apply. Usually because the observer is making the observations in a vacuum or has a limited understanding of the events. This is not one of those times.
generalchaos34 wrote: I think some people forget that this new edition has probably been in the pipeline for at least 6 months to a year when you consider stuff like graphic design and sending things to the printer, etc.
Well, aside from that meaning it took them only a year and a half to decide to kill 6th edition - KILL IT WITH FIRE!!! - I feel the need to correct something here. Graphic design and such do NOT take as long as you think. Especially when you have as many people working on it as GW do. They've been able to throw out gobs of stuff in print and digital rapidly. They have plenty of artwork already. Basically, they already had the vast majority of the work needed done already. It's not that hard, then, to take and assemble all of that together into a book and print it.
At the company I work for, we have multiple brands we sell stuff through. One of them has over 20,000 items in the catalog, a catalog so thick that you could seriously kill a person if you hit them with it. All of those items need descriptions, pricing, and the whole thing needs laid out right. This year, our advertising team redid the catalog to include more items than before, in a new layout that allowed them to put more items per page and fewer pages overall (but still, seriously, don't get smacked with one of these things). And you know what? It didn't take them six months. It can't take them that long because we don't have that kind of time.
The maximum time it'd take GW to get that stuff together is two months, given the staff they have. They can pull together everything, have different people working on different sections, create any new graphics they have, and toss it to a printer who can churn out thousands of copies in a time that would surprise you.
And if they'd been working on it as long as you say, it means Escalation and Stronghold Assault were even more blatant cash-grabs than they already were, because they were planning to replace them already by the time they released them.
I think you are overestimating the size of GWs staff and capabilities, or whether or not they even own their own printing presses. Im saying that they have been planning this for at least 6 months, since you would have to have your printing shipping and distribution already done by now (i.e. all 7th edition is sitting in a warehouse as we speak waiting to ship in a few days) and thats not counting the time they had to plan and create and hopefully playtest this stuff, while also working on their other projects. I think a window of at least six months is more than reasonable
generalchaos34 wrote: I think some people forget that this new edition has probably been in the pipeline for at least 6 months to a year when you consider stuff like graphic design and sending things to the printer, etc.
Well, aside from that meaning it took them only a year and a half to decide to kill 6th edition - KILL IT WITH FIRE!!! - I feel the need to correct something here. Graphic design and such do NOT take as long as you think. Especially when you have as many people working on it as GW do. They've been able to throw out gobs of stuff in print and digital rapidly. They have plenty of artwork already. Basically, they already had the vast majority of the work needed done already. It's not that hard, then, to take and assemble all of that together into a book and print it.
At the company I work for, we have multiple brands we sell stuff through. One of them has over 20,000 items in the catalog, a catalog so thick that you could seriously kill a person if you hit them with it. All of those items need descriptions, pricing, and the whole thing needs laid out right. This year, our advertising team redid the catalog to include more items than before, in a new layout that allowed them to put more items per page and fewer pages overall (but still, seriously, don't get smacked with one of these things). And you know what? It didn't take them six months. It can't take them that long because we don't have that kind of time.
The maximum time it'd take GW to get that stuff together is two months, given the staff they have. They can pull together everything, have different people working on different sections, create any new graphics they have, and toss it to a printer who can churn out thousands of copies in a time that would surprise you.
And if they'd been working on it as long as you say, it means Escalation and Stronghold Assault were even more blatant cash-grabs than they already were, because they were planning to replace them already by the time they released them.
I think you are overestimating the size of GWs staff and capabilities, or whether or not they even own their own printing presses. Im saying that they have been planning this for at least 6 months, since you would have to have your printing shipping and distribution already done by now (i.e. all 7th edition is sitting in a warehouse as we speak waiting to ship in a few days) and thats not counting the time they had to plan and create and hopefully playtest this stuff, while also working on their other projects. I think a window of at least six months is more than reasonable
Although I agree that they could have absolutely put something out in a 2 to 3 month time frame, I think it's been in design for a year. My reason is simply that we stopped seeing any type of real FAQ updates in April of '13. The only reason to no longer spend any time on them is if they were already planning on releasing 7e soon. I think the Stronghold and Escalation books were released as a way of testing the waters to see what the feedback would be, and also to try and gauge when the right time to release 7e might be.
koooaei wrote: Well, there are sure lots of problems in 6 ed. Tons of problems i'd say. Way more than in 5-th. But i'm afraid that's not the main factor of creating a new edition. Let's see.
I don't think 6th is that bad. The Allies rules are ruinous, of course, but things like opportunity fire and variable charge distances are perfectly reasonable game mechanisms unless your army suffers badly because of them.
There are a lot of complaints about balance, as always. This has got worse because of Allies and Dataslates, not because of the core game rules.
A lot of people don't like Escalation being crammed into the game. It was fine as an option (Apocalypse.)
It's funny when people tell me stuff like "40k community is actually made of many people with different opinions". Of course I know that, but if there's equal amount of hate and naysaying when GW does something as there is for it not doing that thing, why would they even pay attention to those people?
I know that listening to your community is a big thing, but sometimes when I look at Dakka or any other forum with 40k community on it, I see a bunch of cats, each displeased, each walking in a different direction and all of them meowing out their lack of satisfaction.
Why even bother reading all that crap? No matter what GW does, people will hate it equally anyway. People having different opinions are okay, but when vocal minority pretending to be the majority acts like a bunch of rabid dogs, do they really expect anyone to treat them seriously? Or is it just a case of a circlejerk for those that want others to stand up and shout with them, so they feel stronger and cooler?
I think that such behaviour is much more toxic to the community than any Allies Chart abuse allowed by unbalanced rules.
Klerych wrote: It's funny when people tell me stuff like "40k community is actually made of many people with different opinions". Of course I know that, but if there's equal amount of hate and naysaying when GW does something as there is for it not doing that thing, why would they even pay attention to those people?
I know that listening to your community is a big thing, but sometimes when I look at Dakka or any other forum with 40k community on it, I see a bunch of cats, each displeased, each walking in a different direction and all of them meowing out their lack of satisfaction.
Why even bother reading all that crap? No matter what GW does, people will hate it equally anyway. People having different opinions are okay, but when vocal minority pretending to be the majority acts like a bunch of rabid dogs, do they really expect anyone to treat them seriously? Or is it just a case of a circlejerk for those that want others to stand up and shout with them, so they feel stronger and cooler?
I think that such behaviour is much more toxic to the community than any Allies Chart abuse allowed by unbalanced rules.
I disagree on the levels of toxicness, allies are more problematic for 40k. The rest makes sense though.
No matter what GW does, people will hate it equally anyway.
Your hyperbole aside, this is wrong. There's plenty GW could do that would make a significant majority of the players happy.
Off the top of my head;
-FAQs/Erratas that clear up issues that should be addressed, and in a timely manner
-Cheaper prices/better value for a dollar spent on minis/rulebooks
-Tighter rules that feel like they've at least been properly play tested
-Give the player base real news and teasers prior to a release with genuine information to generate excitement
I'm sure there's more, but either way, your point about listening to the community is incorrect. Its always a good move to try and interact with the community, and while there will always be the emotionally charged, not overly bright gamer, there will always be level-headed people with researched and well developed points on how to improve various aspects of the game,
It takes effort, but you can sift through the nonsensical to find the valuable. If you only assume the worst from the community, that's all you'll ever find. If you look past the idiocy and read the thoughts that have been well written and backed up by some sort of logic or facts, you'll find the community is much better than you're giving it credit.
Just take a look at your post. Is it making anything better? Have you contributed in any meaningful manner? Because all I see is more negativity in that post, bemoaning the amount of negativity. Be the change you want to see.
Blacksails wrote: [...]
Just take a look at your post. Is it making anything better? Have you contributed in any meaningful manner? Because all I see is more negativity in that post, bemoaning the amount of negativity. Be the change you want to see.
Unless he can be the entire fanbase, that's going to be a tough one.
Unless he can be the entire fanbase, that's going to be a tough one.
You're missing the point.
If you complain about the toxicity of the community, then it should follow that you set an example and only post things you would want to read in return.
Of course people will still be people, but the only way to make anything better is to start yourself.
Unless he can be the entire fanbase, that's going to be a tough one.
You're missing the point.
If you complain about the toxicity of the community, then it should follow that you set an example and only post things you would want to read in return.
Of course people will still be people, but the only way to make anything better is to start yourself.
I shall try to show some positivity then, and maybe give us an example of how we're meant to react to GW:
*ahem*
Oh, WONDEROUS JOY, look at the price rises! Everything has increased by 30% for the n^th time! And the Ruleset is just utterly FABULOUS, with all the imbalance, I can just feel the narratives in my face!
...
...
That came out more sarcastic than I expected.
... Srsly, I *did* try to show positivity, but it turns out that I actually am incapable of it. :-/
I think I get it: you have whining, then the whining about the whining, then the whining about the whining about the whining, and finally the whining about the whining about the whining about the whining about the whining. No wait, the last one is wrong. It is not the whining about the whining about the whining about the whining about the whining, it is just the whining about the whining about the whining about the whining. Level four whinings. Blacksails, I do not like it that you didn´t like Klerych´s negative reaction to what Selym wrote about GW. Ha! I hope nobody dislikes that.
Reminds me of an old Monty Python line:
"I think all right thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I'm certainly not, and I'm sick and tired of being told that I am."
@Klerych: there will always be people complaining about something. That´s the human nature. If the fan-base is big enough, there will always be someone displeased. I think you are mostly focusing on negative responses. That´s the reason people tells you it was different people all the time. I sort of welcome this new edition (not 100% sold on it still), I got really bored with the slow-mode of late-5th.
Also, I don´t think criticism is toxic to the community. Quite the contrary.
@Selym: try to find people who think like you. The game is really fun if the players want the same. To begin with, not everyone will run to buy the new book. I am still using 5th nids and 4th csm, and still playing some 5th edition with an old friend. There are also people playing 2nd, or house ruled variants. It is complicated, but not impossible.
If the game really feels so negative, I have found having a little break helps. A lot of people in this forum has stopped playing (temporarily or not) and are here for the background and the modelling (and the people, of course)
@Selym: try to find people who think like you. The game is really fun if the players want the same. To begin with, not everyone will run to buy the new book. I am still using 5th nids and 4th csm, and still playing some 5th edition with an old friend. There are also people playing 2nd, or house ruled variants. It is complicated, but not impossible.
If the game really feels so negative, I have found having a little break helps. A lot of people in this forum has stopped playing (temporarily or not) and are here for the background and the modelling (and the people, of course)
I end up having 3-6 month breaks between games because I have never seen a game over 500 points take less than 5 hours with anyone I can currently play. Which is really sad, as the times I've had games with my best friend (bro 4 lyfe), who has since moved away, were some of the most hilarious things I've ever done, and were usually done in under 3 hours, even though we have never played with turn limits between the two of us. And once respawned an entire 1500 point IG army, because I was totally owning him that day.
Really my problem boils down to the fact that:
-My playerbase is currently limited to about three people (excluding me), one of whom is a GW-loving rules-lawyering d-bag, and the other two are eternally busy.
-6e smashed my favoured army into dust, as I hate the look of heldrakes (and I refuse to play anything I don't like the model of).
-My parents detest 40k.
And then I get sore about the rest of it, because why the heck not.
But, I am moving on to collecting some IG. Because dayum LRBT's look smexy.
@Selym: try to find people who think like you. The game is really fun if the players want the same. To begin with, not everyone will run to buy the new book. I am still using 5th nids and 4th csm, and still playing some 5th edition with an old friend. There are also people playing 2nd, or house ruled variants. It is complicated, but not impossible.
If the game really feels so negative, I have found having a little break helps. A lot of people in this forum has stopped playing (temporarily or not) and are here for the background and the modelling (and the people, of course)
I end up having 3-6 month breaks between games because I have never seen a game over 500 points take less than 5 hours with anyone I can currently play. Which is really sad, as the times I've had games with my best friend (bro 4 lyfe), who has since moved away, were some of the most hilarious things I've ever done, and were usually done in under 3 hours, even though we have never played with turn limits between the two of us. And once respawned an entire 1500 point IG army, because I was totally owning him that day.
Really my problem boils down to the fact that:
-My playerbase is currently limited to about three people (excluding me), one of whom is a GW-loving rules-lawyering d-bag, and the other two are eternally busy.
-6e smashed my favoured army into dust, as I hate the look of heldrakes (and I refuse to play anything I don't like the model of).
-My parents detest 40k.
And then I get sore about the rest of it, because why the heck not.
But, I am moving on to collecting some IG. Because dayum LRBT's look smexy.
Moving to IG could be good. Make them look as traitor guard and you can still play Chaos if that´s your wish. I moved from csm to nids as primary army when csm got a Codex in 6th (my army was no longer legal) and then from nids to sm when the nids got a new Codex. It is good to have different armies.
I am also quite optimistic about the future. 3D printing is soon to change everything forever, and the new edition is probably going to be a good turning point for many players to find some alternative fun. I know at least 5 different w40k alternative fan-made rulesets being tested: 40k Revolution, Open40k, DRAL,... and this is just the beginning.
The last thing I read on Faeit: now many psykers (including loyalists, the example is a Dark Angel´s Librarian) will be able to summon daemons to the table, both lesser and even a Bloodthirster! Yeah! Fluffy players take that: my Space Marine Librarian just invoked a Screamer star to run with my centurion star and my Inquisitor and my Tau Riptide allies! You like the background? Find players with a similar thinking and rebuild.
Embrace the madness, bro. The rules of the game are changing.
One last thing: the significance of your parents´ opinion on your hobbies in your life will eventually become zero... (then you will probably get a wife to complain about it though).
Klerych wrote: It's funny when people tell me stuff like "40k community is actually made of many people with different opinions". Of course I know that, but if there's equal amount of hate and naysaying when GW does something as there is for it not doing that thing, why would they even pay attention to those people?
You seem to be working under the assumption that the only alternative to releasing 1 or 2 codexes a year is to rush out poorly thought out or unfinished material...
No matter what GW does, people will hate it equally anyway.
People by and large were quite positive about the new Knight models... it was only when their rules became known that any large number of complaints started.
Likewise, the new Stormicus Trooperus models got a fairly positive reception, up until the 2-unit codex was revealed.
And for all its faults, 6th edition initially had a fairly positive reception in a lot of areas. Until people started kicking the tyres and bits started falling off.
People are't complaining just to be in the 'in crowd'. They're complaining because they see (in their opinion) legitimate problems with what GW is doing. Most of us are all to happy to offer praise when it is warranted... it's just that over these last two years particularly, GW have given us very little that has warranted it.
People are't complaining just to be in the 'in crowd'. They're complaining because they see (in their opinion) legitimate problems with what GW is doing. Most of us are all to happy to offer praise when it is warranted... it's just that over these last two years particularly, GW have given us very little that has warranted it.
Exalted.
That's exactly how I feel and, for the most part, exactly what I see happening when threads about GW start going down hill.
Aslo it really annoys me seeing people say things like 'the fans will never be happy' because those same people ARE happy with other companies on the market* and 'we'll never please our customers so lets not try' is the exact opposite of how retail is supposed to work.
*A new edition of infinity has just been announced and there is no doom and gloom in that thread, nor is there wild speculation. People are happily discussing the news and new models we've got without much negativity at all.
I guess 6th was designed to fix 5th rather than thinking about the future. 7th will clear things up a bit, hopefully it will last the full four years this time.
KommissarKarl wrote: I guess 6th was designed to fix 5th rather than thinking about the future. 7th will clear things up a bit, hopefully it will last the full four years this time.
GW don't release new editions to fix old ones, they simply change things.
Yes wound allocation and razorback spam is gone but they where replaced by other problems. Nothing got 'fixed' they just changed everything a little and that's how its been ever since 3rd ed.
KommissarKarl wrote: I guess 6th was designed to fix 5th rather than thinking about the future. 7th will clear things up a bit, hopefully it will last the full four years this time.
GW don't release new editions to fix old ones, they simply change things.
Yes wound allocation and razorback spam is gone but they where replaced by other problems. Nothing got 'fixed' they just changed everything a little and that's how its been ever since 3rd ed.
The fact that they made new problems doesn't mean they haven't fixed old ones.
Transport hammer was a problem, that got fixed. Wound allocation shenanigans was a problem, that got fixed. Ubiquitous 4+ cover was a problem, that got fixed. I fully expect 7th to fix some problems with 6th edition as it looks like Bound lists are doing already. Allies being freely available means vanilla armies have lost their appeal, so Bound bonuses are a way of potentially bringing that back. Similarly a psychic phase helps clean up the psychic system in 40k, which as it stands is a little irrational in that the casting of abilities is split between phases.
So imo they are going to fix at least two problems with 6th. That's not to say that it might not also create much larger problems, but as yet there is no evidence of that.
The best part of the new magicpsychic phase is not needing to remind players to cast spells prior to moving their models that didn't come in from reserve.
Seriously, though, outside of wound allocation shenanigans and a few other issues, 5E was pretty good. Taking some 6E stuff back into 5E, making it necessary for vehicles to have 50% cover, bring back the old glancing mechanic, increase hull points all around, get rid of dumb stuff like MCs getting a cover save for having a toe in terrain, and Bob's Your Uncle... a solid edition of 40k.
KTG17 wrote: Sorry I know there is the monster thread going on about 7th rumors, but since we all know its coming out now, I was wondering if anyone knew WHY. It seems really soon after DV, and while I am not crazy about everything in 6th, it still seemed to look like it was going well. I am not a hardcore 40k player like most of you, so I dont know whats wrong with the current version. I mean, I assume there must be issues if GW is doing this. Can anyone name a few reasons why this might be a good thing? What is terribly wrong with 6th?
Could it be poor sales?
Its pretty obvious, the stock tanked, and they aren't gaining enough money. That and I think there is a noticeable decline in 40k players as a whole because 6th is re-friggin-tarded. Its another desperate thrash from a company that doesn't listen to anyone but the sycophants that are leading them to damnation.
6th required a handful of tweaks, if they made a 6.5 rulebook and a big free FAQ then everything would have been fine, but instead we are getting the bill for what is essentially a recall, with an edition we didn't ask for with rules we didn't ask for or ever want. My theory is GW is trying to case out any of the rational, well versed and critical thinking group out so their core customers are the gooby derps that take it with a smile whenever GW says "bend over".
We email GW and tell them our concerns, they don't listen and cut off every avenue of interaction
We make our own fan stuff, they sue us.
We vote with our wallets, they raise prices and blame us for being too critical
I urge people to group buy the rule books, encouraging GWs behaviour will only ensure them pushing that boundary further.
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Savageconvoy wrote: What bothers me is that some people are optimistic that this will be a solid edition and fix problems from 6th.
Does anybody realize how many books the GW design studio has released in the last two years? I think it was 22 army books over the course of 24 months. Does anybody actually believe that the people who wrote the DA flyers of the CSM Mutilators had enough time to write the 6th ed book, then two army books, and plan it all out for a new edition just a short while away? While releasing many other armies and supplements?
I have no faith that this will fell like anything other than a rushed release with rushed rules with rushed fixes.
Its almost guaranteed a copy paste job, and that $120 Canadian price tag isn't looking good to me, a lot of people I know are group buying it and making personal copies through staples and the like. Personally Im getting as many iPad friends as I can on my apple ID to bring the cost way down.
Point is, this might be the exact same scenario that sunk TSR if this book sells like junk.
Well, based on what you guys have all said, I am thinking this wasnt a very spontaneous decision by GW. I am sure it takes some time to plan a release. The feeling I get is this is going to be the way of the future. I bet GW moves WFB to a new set every 2 years too.
I remember Jervis saying that I think the 4th or 5th edition Space Marine codex was considered a failure because if failed to pull in new players or something like that,so they released a new one not too long after. I think what he was saying was it failed to increase Space Marine sales.
I am sure 40k and WFB get a big boost in sales when the new starter sets come out. And at this point, it seems when GW updates a book, there are only a few NEW units and maybe some tweaks to existing models. Besides that, the models are all the same. So if you have an existing Space Marine army, you might be tempted to buy the couple of new models when the next codex comes out, but at the same time if you already have everything you want, you might not. And with GW cranking out so many codexes so fast, with increased prices, where most of their fans are veterans of previous editions and therefore have existing armies, then I can see how sales wouldnt be as great as they want per army.
Seems to be then that releasing a new set every 2 years would sort of keep interest. The problem is, think about peeps who buy those nice limited edition rulebooks, and are now told the book is useless... it sucks. As I said before, GW could release a new starter set every year and I would buy it, if the rulebook was the same, but with a new scenerio/starter book. Like a splash product. And it would give you a base to try out a new army (assuming they would change the armies each time. I think that would kick ass.
Another thing I thought of... is how the new edition screws up the codexes/army books. If the rules for CC are friendly to CC units, and those units cost X points, then when the rules change to make CC harder for CC units, and their existing codex still has those units at X points, they seem to me to be over-valued (and vice-versa). I think that is what causes a lot of broken rules. Its not necessarily the rules per say, but the cost of the units dont reflect their abilities in the new rules. Since GW doesnt release stats and points in the new rulebooks (like 3rd), then you are stuck using the costs that were developed during a previous edition. God this is all more screwed up than I thought. No wonder its all a mess.
TheKbob wrote: The best part of the new magicpsychic phase is not needing to remind players to cast spells prior to moving their models that didn't come in from reserve.
Seriously, though, outside of wound allocation shenanigans and a few other issues, 5E was pretty good. Taking some 6E stuff back into 5E, making it necessary for vehicles to have 50% cover, bring back the old glancing mechanic, increase hull points all around, get rid of dumb stuff like MCs getting a cover save for having a toe in terrain, and Bob's Your Uncle... a solid edition of 40k.
All that's left would be to rebalance the codexes - buff up CSM, Nids, Orks etc, Nerfhammer the worst of the overpowered combos somehow, and I think we'll all be set. After that, I'd be more than happy for GW to make expansions and dataslates to further extend the game.
i do agree that MCs and terrain are kinda WTF-worthy lol. Theyre often larger than most vehicles, and benefit from area terrain ... ? sense = none... Not the only terrain bullcrap rule but its the most used one.
To me, since vehicles have hullpoints and almost none of them have an inert save, vehicles shouldnt be allowed to Explode! unless it was their last hullpoint or an AP1 weapon. Without either of those, it just takes another HP off. No idea how irritating it is to have a weapon that needs a 6 to pen just happen to roll a 6 on the result and pop a heavy vehicle even though it was AP4/5 lol. In 5E it was that bad because it was the only way to kill a vehicle - well now i kill vehicles by glancing them to death with my firewarriors or broadsides more than i do with a hammerhead lol. i would be rather boned if they removed the HP system.
As much as i like overwatch (obviously since im Tau lol) i think it should go. Some armies just get hurt way too bad by that + remove from front rules, namely Orks/CSM/Nidz even in the new dex. If anything, only allow Assault, Pistol, or Relentless models to overwatch but nothing else.
Transport hammer was a problem, that got fixed. Wound allocation shenanigans was a problem, that got fixed. Ubiquitous 4+ cover was a problem, that got fixed.
And then they made eldar , which brought back transport hammer on crack , with uber cover for their tanks. Take about a U turn.
I just hope that the unbound thing won't bring any stupid lists . And I don't mean those 10 riptide ones ,if someone wants to spend that much cash on 10 models , his choice , although it probably would have been better to buy a w30k army . I just hope there won't be any Inquisitor coteaz and his 12AM psyker friends in a bastion trying to spam summon demons.
Transport hammer was a problem, that got fixed. Wound allocation shenanigans was a problem, that got fixed. Ubiquitous 4+ cover was a problem, that got fixed.
And then they made eldar , which brought back transport hammer on crack , with uber cover for their tanks. Take about a U turn.
I just hope that the unbound thing won't bring any stupid lists . And I don't mean those 10 riptide ones ,if someone wants to spend that much cash on 10 models , his choice , although it probably would have been better to buy a w30k army . I just hope there won't be any Inquisitor coteaz and his 12AM psyker friends in a bastion trying to spam summon demons.
Eh it's not a U turn, Kelly did the same thing for Falcon's in 4th.
Why is GW releasing a new edition so soon? Well, because they can!
GW will continue to push the boundaries of releases, shortening lifespan, up'ing prices, dividing content out into more purchases etc. And why shouldn't they? People seem adamant to buy their goods; clamoring for any new (40k) item.
Heck, GW is one of the few companies that I've seen customers adamantly defend against any and all complaints, no matter how legitimate. It's really quite impressive. Seriously, GW could lower the 40k rulebook lifespan to a new book every six months to a year, up the cost by 25%, tweak the rules just enough to make using a previous edition a pain, and the books will sell like crazy. They've done a good job impressing this idea on us that GW materials should cost more! I mean, how often do you look at the cost of an item and say "yeah, that's what I expected" (Note: I say expected, not what you think is reasonable)
Will GW go in the opposite direction if pressured by loss of consumer demand? Maybe, it seems like the WE release is a bit cheaper than previous WHFB release cycles, so I think that GW will get the message if their health continues to dwindle. But I'm not sure that making the product more affordable to a larger population is really their goal, they feel like they're Louis Vouitton, and would rather destroy old product than sell it at discount (which is literally what both companies do). Instead they'll keep searching for ways to pull more money out of their customers, it will just be up to us (the customers) on how much of this we will put up with.
Have people completely forgotten about Kill Team? I don't understand the complaints about how GW needs to make a small focused game, when they already have and it's existed for a while.
As for me, I just hope that GW continues to exist so they continue producing the models, which are largely what I care about. There's nothing forcing me to use each new edition, I can get and print PDF's of the old rulebooks, grab some friends, and have small skirmishes with the smaller armies. There's no reason why I need to bother about new editions unless it has good fluff or you play tournaments.
GW wants to sell all the Sisters players a new codex with even LESS models in it!
I wonder if SOB will even be mentioned in the new 7th.
Yes, because it wouldn't be a new edition without the Sisters players getting strung along some more.
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Wyzilla wrote: Have people completely forgotten about Kill Team? I don't understand the complaints about how GW needs to make a small focused game, when they already have and it's existed for a while.
I haven't but the availability of the rules is pants for giving it to new players. It needs to be in the core rulebook.
IMO, im not marketing or economist expert, but it would be to drop the prices on all their units, encourage people to build bigger armies, play larger games, collect more.
Right now people are being so picky and choosy about what they buy or what army to start because it so freaking expensive to build one, that if you buy a tac squad then find out its garbo, your are out 40 bucks.
I haven't ever really minded the price of 40k as much, because pretty much any wargame is going to have a very high cost. As far as I can tell the 40k models are priced competitively with 28mm models from other companies that aren't Mantic, but you need a lot more 40k models than you do models from most other 28mm games in order to have a functional army. I will admit my experience with 28mm wargames is kind of limited (historical games aren't something I've looked at) so I could be totally wrong.
It could also have something to do with the fact that GW miniatures are actually really detailed and have tons of pieces and options relative to a lot of other companies. I know that the first time I opened a box from a non-GW miniatures company I was greeted by a plastic bag full of loose parts and no instructions. That was a very eye opening experience.
Speaking to historical games, and someone who has purchased WGF, Foundry, Warlord, Perry, GB, and others. GW's minis aren't exceptional in terms of options. Conquest, Gripping Beast, Wargames Factory, and Warlord all make some bitz crazy plastic sets for much less than a GW set. Now, for some of those, quality may be a less (WGF is hit and miss on quality), but not significantly so as to ruin them beyond redemption.
I'll also take Perry or Empress quality sculpts every day over GW. Their stuff blows GW out of the water for level of detail and kit, very impressive stuff. Similarly, while they are still 'heroic', Warlord's US Airborne have also really impressed me with quality of sculpting (loads of little details that GW would just gloss over).
I don't have any experience with Fireforge, but have heard lots of good things about them.
In short, personal experience tells me that GW has neither the quantity of bits nor quality of sculpt so sufficiently covered to justify prices.
If you want tanks, planes, etc these are also cheaply obtainable in relevant scale from a glut of model companies. Now, GW vehicle kits are much easier to build, but if you are talking detail, Revell, Monogram, Academy, and others blow GW away and cost 1/3rd the price.
generalchaos34 wrote: Maybe just maybe D weapons will be adjusted among other changes, we really dont know, but since the 2 flagships of this new eidition are BA and Orks, im going to say that CC will get some sort of boost, since im sure they learned that making your flagship armies (DA and Chaos) suck is not good for sales.
It really was kind of impressive how DV was supposed to refocus the game more only Chaos vs the IoM, with a strong and popular DA and CSM and proceeded to do anything but that. I occasionally see DA armies, but usually just as allies. CSM armies still exist, but not as popular as they were in 5th and before.
GW wants to sell all the Sisters players a new codex with even LESS models in it!
I wonder if SOB will even be mentioned in the new 7th.
Yes, because it wouldn't be a new edition without the Sisters players getting strung along some more.
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Wyzilla wrote: Have people completely forgotten about Kill Team? I don't understand the complaints about how GW needs to make a small focused game, when they already have and it's existed for a while.
I haven't but the availability of the rules is pants for giving it to new players. It needs to be in the core rulebook.
Uhhhhhh, yeah, about that. If you have a computer to order miniatures online, you can get the kill team rules with fair ease. It should be in the BRB, but they aren't hard to get.
Wyzilla wrote: Uhhhhhh, yeah, about that. If you have a computer to order miniatures online, you can get the kill team rules with fair ease. It should be in the BRB, but they aren't hard to get.
Oh, I own the Kill Team rules (I have the iPad version and even covered it for the curious who wanted to know what was going on before they spent their money), but they're hardly in the store for new players to see and know about now are they? Having to go online to find rules so you can play a game with your first box of Tactical Marines is a bit off putting and frankly a pants idea. It really needs to be on the shelf or in the rulebook. Preferably the latter.
KTG17 wrote: Sorry I know there is the monster thread going on about 7th rumors, but since we all know its coming out now, I was wondering if anyone knew WHY. It seems really soon after DV, and while I am not crazy about everything in 6th, it still seemed to look like it was going well. I am not a hardcore 40k player like most of you, so I dont know whats wrong with the current version. I mean, I assume there must be issues if GW is doing this. Can anyone name a few reasons why this might be a good thing? What is terribly wrong with 6th?
Could it be poor sales?
are we sure this is 7th edition and not 6.5?
Perhaps the DV starter set isnt selling very well, for umm some reason, like maybe because CSM and DA have the 2 worst 6th edition codexes but whatever.
Perhaps GW is trying to increase it's BA and Ork sales, and GW loves orks, loves to put them in a starter set when they can, so maybe they are just going with 6.5. Add in escalation and a few other things, not fix any of the FMC, MC, ignores cover, or assault problems and just try and get a little more money out of a new starter set and rulebook.
KTG17 wrote: Sorry I know there is the monster thread going on about 7th rumors, but since we all know its coming out now, I was wondering if anyone knew WHY. It seems really soon after DV, and while I am not crazy about everything in 6th, it still seemed to look like it was going well. I am not a hardcore 40k player like most of you, so I dont know whats wrong with the current version. I mean, I assume there must be issues if GW is doing this. Can anyone name a few reasons why this might be a good thing? What is terribly wrong with 6th?
Could it be poor sales?
are we sure this is 7th edition and not 6.5?
Perhaps the DV starter set isnt selling very well, for umm some reason, like maybe because CSM and DA have the 2 worst 6th edition codexes but whatever.
Perhaps GW is trying to increase it's BA and Ork sales, and GW loves orks, loves to put them in a starter set when they can, so maybe they are just going with 6.5. Add in escalation and a few other things, not fix any of the FMC, MC, ignores cover, or assault problems and just try and get a little more money out of a new starter set and rulebook.
If they had the sense to make a new starter set, and made it IG vs Orks, I'd be one happy bunny. That'd be IG for my IG, and Orks for my zombies But there have been quite a few people saying that GW is just going to give the DV set a new book, and leave it at that :c
GW wants to sell all the Sisters players a new codex with even LESS models in it!
Wow. It all makes sense now.
It make such a sad bit of sense, doesn't it?
Sad Story Time! (Obviously I didn't write this)
Deep within the bowls of near eternal darkness, the ten sisters of battle sat within plastic containment. The two stuck together in one pocket of plastic had been good friends for well over a decade now. "Sister Maria...when will we get to serve the Emperor?" she would ask at least once a week. Ready to hear the comfort from her superior. "Nisa...soon. Soon we will show them the Emperor's fury." Maria would always reply in a confident tone. This dance of emotional support spun on for years... one day, though. One day everything shifted. Jostled from sleep, Sister Nisa exclaimed, "Maria! Maria! We're moving! We're going to get to serve the Emperor!" "Yes Sister Nisa!" replied Maria with excitement. Soon, light filled their world. The dim blue gray of overhanging light-tubes. The plastic was opened, and the sisters were dumped with their squad into a massive bucket filled with other sisters. "Maria! Where are you?!" Nisa yelled "Here here, over here!" Maria jostled her way over the other sisters to Nisa, "Surely this will be the largest holy war the Sororitas has ever seen or will see!" Thousands of Sisters of battle yelled praises to the Emperor as they were dumped into a lead bowl. "A transport?" questioned Maria, as the cold metal touched her. The world moved again, and orange light filled the air and their bucket was placed into an enclosure. "Its hot Sister Maria! Its hot!" exclaimed Nisa in panic. "Don't worry Sister Nisa. We will serve the Emperor. We are protected!" she said as pewter droplets began to form on the surface of her armor and roll off into the container. "The Emperor protects!" That was the last word from the sister as her face boiled away and pooled into the bottom of the container... in a matter of minutes the super heated oven had turned all the Sisters into a pewter bar. Ready to be melted into other forms or separated for its various metals.
GW wants to sell all the Sisters players a new codex with even LESS models in it!
Wow. It all makes sense now.
It make such a sad bit of sense, doesn't it?
Sad Story Time! (Obviously I didn't write this)
Deep within the bowls of near eternal darkness, the ten sisters of battle sat within plastic containment. The two stuck together in one pocket of plastic had been good friends for well over a decade now.
"Sister Maria...when will we get to serve the Emperor?" she would ask at least once a week. Ready to hear the comfort from her superior.
"Nisa...soon. Soon we will show them the Emperor's fury." Maria would always reply in a confident tone.
This dance of emotional support spun on for years... one day, though. One day everything shifted. Jostled from sleep, Sister Nisa exclaimed, "Maria! Maria! We're moving! We're going to get to serve the Emperor!"
"Yes Sister Nisa!" replied Maria with excitement.
Soon, light filled their world. The dim blue gray of overhanging light-tubes. The plastic was opened, and the sisters were dumped with their squad into a massive bucket filled with other sisters.
"Maria! Where are you?!" Nisa yelled "Here here, over here!" Maria jostled her way over the other sisters to Nisa, "Surely this will be the largest holy war the Sororitas has ever seen or will see!"
Thousands of Sisters of battle yelled praises to the Emperor as they were dumped into a lead bowl. "A transport?" questioned Maria, as the cold metal touched her. The world moved again, and orange light filled the air and their bucket was placed into an enclosure.
"Its hot Sister Maria! Its hot!" exclaimed Nisa in panic.
"Don't worry Sister Nisa. We will serve the Emperor. We are protected!" she said as pewter droplets began to form on the surface of her armor and roll off into the container. "The Emperor protects!"
That was the last word from the sister as her face boiled away and pooled into the bottom of the container... in a matter of minutes the super heated oven had turned all the Sisters into a pewter bar. Ready to be melted into other forms or separated for its various metals.
Ah yes, I recall that thread by /tg/. Someone later said they'd be recast into Draigo models (joke is on them, Draigo later went Finecast).
But yes, that thread prompted a number of people to go buy Sisters models to "save them".
Yeah, that story had a "Toy Story" punch to it that probably did get some people buying miniatures.
You know, really I just wish GW wouldn't have priced them so high. They've obviously had issues selling the stock for years, and it's not like they do sales. I just wish they hadn't continued to raise their prices, then people might have bought them (I know I would have purchased more).
Accolade wrote: Yeah, that story had a "Toy Story" punch to it that probably did get some people buying miniatures.
You know, really I just wish GW wouldn't have priced them so high. They've obviously had issues selling the stock for years, and it's not like they do sales. I just wish they hadn't continued to raise their prices, then people might have bought them (I know I would have purchased more).
I did purchase them. A LOT of them. Like $3k worth over 3 years as I built my army.
And still no plastic models. You think that'd be enough of a spike of sales on that product that someone would notice, but apparently not.
Accolade wrote: Yeah, that story had a "Toy Story" punch to it that probably did get some people buying miniatures.
You know, really I just wish GW wouldn't have priced them so high. They've obviously had issues selling the stock for years, and it's not like they do sales. I just wish they hadn't continued to raise their prices, then people might have bought them (I know I would have purchased more).
I did purchase them. A LOT of them. Like $3k worth over 3 years as I built my army.
And still no plastic models. You think that'd be enough of a spike of sales on that product that someone would notice, but apparently not.
Accolade wrote: Yeah, that story had a "Toy Story" punch to it that probably did get some people buying miniatures.
You know, really I just wish GW wouldn't have priced them so high. They've obviously had issues selling the stock for years, and it's not like they do sales. I just wish they hadn't continued to raise their prices, then people might have bought them (I know I would have purchased more).
I did purchase them. A LOT of them. Like $3k worth over 3 years as I built my army.
And still no plastic models. You think that'd be enough of a spike of sales on that product that someone would notice, but apparently not.
Maybe they noticed, I just don't think they care.
Depends on which "they" you speak of. The Dev team seems to care but the bean counters and execs show the community no love.
Accolade wrote: Yeah, that story had a "Toy Story" punch to it that probably did get some people buying miniatures.
You know, really I just wish GW wouldn't have priced them so high. They've obviously had issues selling the stock for years, and it's not like they do sales. I just wish they hadn't continued to raise their prices, then people might have bought them (I know I would have purchased more).
I did purchase them. A LOT of them. Like $3k worth over 3 years as I built my army.
And still no plastic models. You think that'd be enough of a spike of sales on that product that someone would notice, but apparently not.
Maybe they noticed, I just don't think they care.
Depends on which "they" you speak of. The Dev team seems to care but the bean counters and execs show the community no love.
I have to disagree then. I think they care, but don't really have much in the way of "pull" for a lot of things (such as if a model is getting discontinued or not) nor do I think they really see the full scope of the outside player base, and what they do know is severely lagged from what's going out here.
If only there was some way they could reach out to the player base and educate themselves, or even just simply read about what the player base was thinking/talking about or dissatisfied with, without necessarily exposing themselves to any sort of backlash!
If only there was some way they could reach out to the player base and educate themselves, or even just simply read about what the player base was thinking/talking about or dissatisfied with, without necessarily exposing themselves to any sort of backlash!
To be a small devil's advocate, even the tamest blog or forum would have some backlash, even if we didn't know they were reading it just because of how we tend to point our ire.
That said there is a way to reach the rules team: traditional post. I'd originally mailed things in to Phil Kelly to this address and one of the things I was advised was that they have two teams which occasionally switch around so it's best to instead direct things to the Citadel Rules team as so:
My advice to anyone wanting to send in letters is to be polite and try to explain your points completely. From a professional writing standpoint (and I've got several years experience drafting correspondence for the Army) a correspondence written to clearly explain your point, and when it is negative, address the issues without casting blame is both more likely to be read completely and actually considered.
Just some friendly advice for anyone wanting to give it a go.
Once I've got the new rulebook in my hands later this month and have had a chance to see how it takes the game I plan to write them with things concerning both a number of armies (such as CSM (like about Cult Terminator options for instance) and Dark Angels(namely regarding the fact that Deathwing isn't a functional army and the problems with both Terminators and Plasma being costed like they are) but possible the core rules as well. If anyone doesn't want to take the time to write in but wants to have me address something feel free to shoot me a PM and I'll do my best to work it in.
