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 Savageconvoy wrote:

I have no faith that this will fell like anything other than a rushed release with rushed rules with rushed fixes.

Well, considering that they seemed to have spent months trying to accurately unbalance 6th ed so that they could sell more new stuff, maybe 7th will accidentally be good.
Then again, it is more likely that it'll be a pile of trash, and not be worth the plasticised paper its printed on.

But that's what file sharing seems to be for.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

clively wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
What bothers me is that some people are optimistic that this will be a solid edition and fix problems from 6th.

Does anybody realize how many books the GW design studio has released in the last two years? I think it was 22 army books over the course of 24 months. Does anybody actually believe that the people who wrote the DA flyers of the CSM Mutilators had enough time to write the 6th ed book, then two army books, and plan it all out for a new edition just a short while away? While releasing many other armies and supplements?

I have no faith that this will fell like anything other than a rushed release with rushed rules with rushed fixes.

This.

I've put my current To Buy list on hold until the book comes out. I'll pick that up, play a couple games, then decide on whether I'm going to stay. I'll stay if 7e is on par with 6e; if it's worse, well, I'll just box everything up until 8e hits next year...

Or enjoy the £45 you spent on the 6e BRB, and keep playing with it...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Reason?

6th ed sucked so much for so many armies that players stopped buying more models and rulebooks because they'd rather quit than buy a whole new army to be able to play without being required to be a "master tactician" to get what they have to work.

I know so SO many people that quit shortly after 6th and havent bought a model since. Because 6th edition killed their already "weaker than average" army to the point where they cant play it unless everything goes perfectly according to plan.

Namely CSM, Orks, Nids.

And all non-shooty-spam of all other armies. Which seem to be centered around one or two units that seemingly everyone needs to have to stay competitive...

Except guard. All variations of guard are acceptable.

Because magic.

I play guard since 5th. 6th was not a very fun time to me. Not pre codex and not post codex.

Makumba wrote:
I play guard since 5th. 6th was not a very fun time to me. Not pre codex and not post codex.

May I ask why?
Every time I've seen IG on the field, both players had a whale of a time.

 Selym wrote:

Makumba wrote:
I play guard since 5th. 6th was not a very fun time to me. Not pre codex and not post codex.

May I ask why?
Every time I've seen IG on the field, both players had a whale of a time.

Makumba's group is apparently some hyper-comp one that ditches their armies whenever they're less than top tier to buy the new FOTM and doesn't give one feth about modeling or lore.

It's not something I'd have fun with but whatever floats her boat.

 -Loki- wrote:
Keeping up with the pace of releases has almost become a job. While we weren't happy with the dearth of releases in 5th, in typical GW fashion they swung the pendulum too far the other way and just went bonkers with releases.

It's kinda funny to read that, because some time ago I heard "GW is slacking!", "Slow releases!", "Everything's getting boring!" and "Y U NO RELEASE STUFF?" and now I hear "GW is releasing too fast!", "Can't keep up!", "Too dynamic, hard to adapt to changes!" and "Y U NO SLOW DOWN?".

In all honesty, so many people whined about 40k/WFB being stagnant and boring, now GW changed the pace so everyone can be happy with their armies, even trying to please both WFB and 40k players and what happens? People whine because the meta changes constantly, making it more of a challenge for players. Accuse me of being a GW Apologist or blind fanboy/idiot all you want, but I really am somewhat concerned about the community seeing how negative it is, no matter what happens. Of course the price hikes and poorly balanced books are an annoyance, which lead to Allies Chart abuse, but there's no pleasing for the 40k community.

Books coming out too slowly, game stagnant! <----> Books coming out too fast, can't keep up!
6th ed sucks, it's the worst, go die in hell, GW! <----> 7th ed with hotfixes? God, we want 6th to stay!
My army's new book doesn't change anything! <----> With every next book for my army I have to adapt and buy new stuff!

I know that some people raise valid points, but to me at the moment it seems that no matter what GW does, the community will never be pleased. The new IG book is a great example as it is fairly balanced, brought some changes to IG armies and kept the old feel. Now things I heard about it(aside those few that could admit that it's one of the best books in 6th ed(not in terms of power), now here's what I read:
-Oh noes, vendetta got a rightful point cost nerf! I can't spam the cheese anymoar, oh woe!
-Oh noes, I have to adjust my army I've been playing for years, the horror! I'll have to change my army list a bit..!
-Oh noes, they didn't fix any of the old, unplayable units!(while this one is fairly true for Ogryns and Rough Riders, they actually made Armoured Sentinels viable with point cost drops; also - like any other book made formerly unplayable models playable now).

You know what's worst? All those doomsayers on their high horses predicting that new edition will be gak and will kill 40k.. and if it doesn't, they'll just move the date of GW's/40k's death a bit further, not aknowledging that they were wrong. Like those end of the world maniacs predicting the apocalypse over and over, and when it doesn't happen, they just keep repeating the same crap after some time, knowing that THIS TIME THEY WILL BE RIGHT! Kinda reminds me of saying "traffic light will switch now! No.. now! Now! ... NOW! No- YES, I'm a wizard!"

 jonolikespie wrote:
The release will fall just before the end of financial year and GWs half year report was so bad their share price fell 25% over night.

^This.

They are releasing faster than ever. And they are mostly copy-pasting previous stuff, with just a few (quite radical) changes to justify buying it. They can do it at nearly zero cost and it may give them a lot of money. So why not?


By the way, I don´t think they are trying to "address the problems" or anything. First it will be impossible to satisfy all the fans at this points with anything else than a 100% reboot. And second they have said many times the game is not to be taken that seriously.

I sort of like it this way, actually. They release stuff, players use it as they please.

It's no wonder their sales have decreased when you can buy all the same models 2-3 times cheaper (with shipping allready included in price) from china online stores with somewhere around-the-same quality. I know, they're investing alot and do quite an amount of hard work. But to be honest, i'd go on a more extensive route considering selling models.

The point is that production cost per model is comparable to or even less than factored development cost. Total production cost scales with the ammount of models you produce. Total development cost does not. So, why not sell 2 times more models for equal ammount of money? The profit will be a bit less per those sales cause you invest more in production and quality controle BUT more people will afford this hobby.

You know, it's a huge factor. When a teenager or a not-so rich working man looks at a price tag and sees that to collect a medium-sized ork force he'll have to spend a bare minimum of 1k $ before painting he thinks to himself: "How much? For a bunch of plastic soldiers?!!".

Let more people into hobby. WH40k is a well known universe. And if it wasn't so expensive to buy, there'd be way more tabletop players.

However, their analizers might be not fools either. Probably, i'm wrong and such prices are a minimum they can afford not to loose money themselves.

GW's sales might increase if they advertised extensively like every other damn company on earth.

Just plaster banner ads everywhere like Evony did.

 Klerych wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
Keeping up with the pace of releases has almost become a job. While we weren't happy with the dearth of releases in 5th, in typical GW fashion they swung the pendulum too far the other way and just went bonkers with releases.

It's kinda funny to read that, because some time ago I heard "GW is slacking!", "Slow releases!", "Everything's getting boring!" and "Y U NO RELEASE STUFF?" and now I hear "GW is releasing too fast!", "Can't keep up!", "Too dynamic, hard to adapt to changes!" and "Y U NO SLOW DOWN?".

In all honesty, so many people whined about 40k/WFB being stagnant and boring, now GW changed the pace so everyone can be happy with their armies, even trying to please both WFB and 40k players and what happens? People whine because the meta changes constantly, making it more of a challenge for players. Accuse me of being a GW Apologist or blind fanboy/idiot all you want, but I really am somewhat concerned about the community seeing how negative it is, no matter what happens. Of course the price hikes and poorly balanced books are an annoyance, which lead to Allies Chart abuse, but there's no pleasing for the 40k community.

Books coming out too slowly, game stagnant! <----> Books coming out too fast, can't keep up!
6th ed sucks, it's the worst, go die in hell, GW! <----> 7th ed with hotfixes? God, we want 6th to stay!
My army's new book doesn't change anything! <----> With every next book for my army I have to adapt and buy new stuff!

I know that some people raise valid points, but to me at the moment it seems that no matter what GW does, the community will never be pleased. The new IG book is a great example as it is fairly balanced, brought some changes to IG armies and kept the old feel. Now things I heard about it(aside those few that could admit that it's one of the best books in 6th ed(not in terms of power), now here's what I read:
-Oh noes, vendetta got a rightful point cost nerf! I can't spam the cheese anymoar, oh woe!
-Oh noes, I have to adjust my army I've been playing for years, the horror! I'll have to change my army list a bit..!
-Oh noes, they didn't fix any of the old, unplayable units!(while this one is fairly true for Ogryns and Rough Riders, they actually made Armoured Sentinels viable with point cost drops; also - like any other book made formerly unplayable models playable now).

You know what's worst? All those doomsayers on their high horses predicting that new edition will be gak and will kill 40k.. and if it doesn't, they'll just move the date of GW's/40k's death a bit further, not aknowledging that they were wrong. Like those end of the world maniacs predicting the apocalypse over and over, and when it doesn't happen, they just keep repeating the same crap after some time, knowing that THIS TIME THEY WILL BE RIGHT! Kinda reminds me of saying "traffic light will switch now! No.. now! Now! ... NOW! No- YES, I'm a wizard!"

What you are experiencing is a community made up of multiple people with multiple opinions. Not an internet hive-mind. When people complain, they like other people to hear it. When they're satisfied, they don't generally care enough to post around everywhere "GUYS IM LIKE SOMEWHAT SATISFIED." So what you heard before was mostly hypothetical group A, and on the right is hypothetical group B, which you seem to have assumed, probably incorrectly, that they were all the same people. There may even be a third group that you heard both times that was wanting a happy medium in between the two times and never got it.

I'm amazed at how often I have to explain this to people on the internet.

Well, there are sure lots of problems in 6 ed. Tons of problems i'd say. Way more than in 5-th. But i'm afraid that's not the main factor of creating a new edition. Let's see.

 Klerych wrote:

In all honesty, so many people whined about 40k/WFB being stagnant and boring, now GW changed the pace so everyone can be happy with their armies, even trying to please both WFB and 40k players and what happens? People whine because the meta changes constantly, making it more of a challenge for players. Accuse me of being a GW Apologist or blind fanboy/idiot all you want, but I really am somewhat concerned about the community seeing how negative it is, no matter what happens. Of course the price hikes and poorly balanced books are an annoyance, which lead to Allies Chart abuse, but there's no pleasing for the 40k community.

It's almost as if the 40k community is made up of different people with different desires and opinions.

Or it could be that people are happy with the pace, but not happy with what comes out. Or it could be that they are not happy with the quality of what comes out. Or it could be that they are not happy about the cost increase of being actively involved in 40k.

 da001 wrote:

I sort of like it this way, actually. They release stuff, players use it as they please.

And then you get that one nob who has to take everything *X-tra srs*, and the whole group falls apart.

Or your army-at-heart (like CSM) cannot win a game without everyone seriously holding back. Even casual fun games need some sort of balance.

 Selym wrote:

 da001 wrote:

I sort of like it this way, actually. They release stuff, players use it as they please.

And then you get that one nob who has to take everything *X-tra srs*, and the whole group falls apart.

Or your army-at-heart (like CSM) cannot win a game without everyone seriously holding back. Even casual fun games need some sort of balance.

I think we reached a point of no return with that some time ago.

Imagine the game as a car. The car already lost its seats and lights, and the engine exploded some time ago, killing most of the passengers and setting others on fire. Sure, they are taking out the wheels now, but who cares? It has been a long while since the car was fit to use

At this point, if your group is not taking control of TFG-"this is serious business" nobs spamming superunit X, your group has already fallen. (Or has embraced the madness, if you are all rich enough and the arms race the game has become is your thing). And if you play fluffy CSM (or fluffy nids, or most lists for that matter), and you are not tweaking the game to give it some balance... well, good luck with that.

If your group is not fixing the game at this moment, I don´t know what are you waiting for.

Well I guess I like the release schedule, cause it does make things interesting to follow even if I have no interest in buying, but to be honest, this most cost GW some serious coin too. And not everyone plays Eldar so they are only going to sell so many Wraith Knights. I think this hurts them too. Its like, they are over-producing themselves to death.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You know, if the rules didnt change, I would be up for a new starter set like every year. Like if DV was followed up with another set with 2 different starter armies with the same rulebook, I would buy it. But I can see how each new rulebook is going to have an effect on an existing codex, and if a codex was good in one edition, and then not in the other, and you are still paying the same in points per model, I can see how the whole thing can be frustrating to keep up with.

I wish something could be done with the codexes. I do think they are rather complex, and prob hurt the game as much as each edition of the rules go.

I think some people forget that this new edition has probably been in the pipeline for at least 6 months to a year when you consider stuff like graphic design and sending things to the printer, etc. By that I mean that its entirely possible that stuff going back to the Space Marine Codex may have been designed to follow in line with the new design philosophy. If that is the case then maybe it could explain some of the odd prices or inclusions on what we consider substandard units. Maybe this could mean a big boost to Nids, maybe this will make my beloved AM even more ungodly awesome! Point being this thing did not appear out of thin air, Someone has been watching 6th and other things and has said "hmmm we better do something about that" and that may be the drive behind their design philosophy. Maybe just maybe D weapons will be adjusted among other changes, we really dont know, but since the 2 flagships of this new eidition are BA and Orks, im going to say that CC will get some sort of boost, since im sure they learned that making your flagship armies (DA and Chaos) suck is not good for sales.

 generalchaos34 wrote:
I think some people forget that this new edition has probably been in the pipeline for at least 6 months to a year when you consider stuff like graphic design and sending things to the printer, etc. By that I mean that its entirely possible that stuff going back to the Space Marine Codex may have been designed to follow in line with the new design philosophy...

God bless you and your optimism, sir.


But I think you're nuts.

 generalchaos34 wrote:
I think some people forget that this new edition has probably been in the pipeline for at least 6 months to a year when you consider stuff like graphic design and sending things to the printer, etc.

Well, aside from that meaning it took them only a year and a half to decide to kill 6th edition - KILL IT WITH FIRE!!! - I feel the need to correct something here. Graphic design and such do NOT take as long as you think. Especially when you have as many people working on it as GW do. They've been able to throw out gobs of stuff in print and digital rapidly. They have plenty of artwork already. Basically, they already had the vast majority of the work needed done already. It's not that hard, then, to take and assemble all of that together into a book and print it.

At the company I work for, we have multiple brands we sell stuff through. One of them has over 20,000 items in the catalog, a catalog so thick that you could seriously kill a person if you hit them with it. All of those items need descriptions, pricing, and the whole thing needs laid out right. This year, our advertising team redid the catalog to include more items than before, in a new layout that allowed them to put more items per page and fewer pages overall (but still, seriously, don't get smacked with one of these things). And you know what? It didn't take them six months. It can't take them that long because we don't have that kind of time.

The maximum time it'd take GW to get that stuff together is two months, given the staff they have. They can pull together everything, have different people working on different sections, create any new graphics they have, and toss it to a printer who can churn out thousands of copies in a time that would surprise you.

And if they'd been working on it as long as you say, it means Escalation and Stronghold Assault were even more blatant cash-grabs than they already were, because they were planning to replace them already by the time they released them.

 ErikSetzer wrote:

 generalchaos34 wrote:
I think some people forget that this new edition has probably been in the pipeline for at least 6 months to a year when you consider stuff like graphic design and sending things to the printer, etc.

Well, aside from that meaning it took them only a year and a half to decide to kill 6th edition - KILL IT WITH FIRE!!! - I feel the need to correct something here. Graphic design and such do NOT take as long as you think. Especially when you have as many people working on it as GW do. They've been able to throw out gobs of stuff in print and digital rapidly. They have plenty of artwork already. Basically, they already had the vast majority of the work needed done already. It's not that hard, then, to take and assemble all of that together into a book and print it.

At the company I work for, we have multiple brands we sell stuff through. One of them has over 20,000 items in the catalog, a catalog so thick that you could seriously kill a person if you hit them with it. All of those items need descriptions, pricing, and the whole thing needs laid out right. This year, our advertising team redid the catalog to include more items than before, in a new layout that allowed them to put more items per page and fewer pages overall (but still, seriously, don't get smacked with one of these things). And you know what? It didn't take them six months. It can't take them that long because we don't have that kind of time.

The maximum time it'd take GW to get that stuff together is two months, given the staff they have. They can pull together everything, have different people working on different sections, create any new graphics they have, and toss it to a printer who can churn out thousands of copies in a time that would surprise you.

And if they'd been working on it as long as you say, it means Escalation and Stronghold Assault were even more blatant cash-grabs than they already were, because they were planning to replace them already by the time they released them.

Also helps quite a bit of their art is old images.

 koooaei wrote:
Well, there are sure lots of problems in 6 ed. Tons of problems i'd say. Way more than in 5-th. But i'm afraid that's not the main factor of creating a new edition. Let's see.

I don't think 6th is that bad. The Allies rules are ruinous, of course, but things like opportunity fire and variable charge distances are perfectly reasonable game mechanisms unless your army suffers badly because of them.

There are a lot of complaints about balance, as always. This has got worse because of Allies and Dataslates, not because of the core game rules.

A lot of people don't like Escalation being crammed into the game. It was fine as an option (Apocalypse.)

I thought the reception to 6th edition was quite good at first.

The biggest detractors were flyers, which not everyone likes, and allies, which people feared would lead to rules abuse (which they have).

6th was also rumored to be one of the longer-lasting editions. I mean, the rules are on their 6th iteration, you'd think they'd be close to the target GW was aiming for them. The fact that 7th is coming out so soon seems to speak that GW has no real goal for new rules other than the reap the maximum benefit of purchases, and that is very frustrating.

EDIT: also going with everything Killkrazy said above me, it's all spot-on.

Well, I'm a bit disappointed that GW is not able to provide a stable core set of rules over a longer time period.

Look at PP and WM/H for instance, they moved from MKI to MKII in 2011 or so. The game has a lot of variety due to factions and casters.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I'm a bit disappointed that GW is not able to provide a stable core set of rules over a longer time period.

Look at PP and WM/H for instance, they moved from MKI to MKII in 2011 or so. The game has a lot of variety due to factions and casters.

And the difference is that both of those companies are privately owned and have strategies of building for the long term.

GW is driven by one thing: share price, which means their strategy is to turn as much profit from quarter to quarter. Putting out garbage rules in no way impedes their business approach, and it's cheaper than putting out quality rules (less development time/money), so they have no reason to change. In fact, spending less time on developing individual rule books actually helps their bottom line because it means they can move onto the next thing quicker. So GW's strategy is actually in line with putting out lousy rules.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the developers themselves are good people, and genuinely want to put out the best product they can, they are just managed in a way that makes that impossible, and management currently does not have any reason to change as long as we all keep buying this garbage.

 Klerych wrote:

Spoiler:

 -Loki- wrote:
Keeping up with the pace of releases has almost become a job. While we weren't happy with the dearth of releases in 5th, in typical GW fashion they swung the pendulum too far the other way and just went bonkers with releases.

It's kinda funny to read that, because some time ago I heard "GW is slacking!", "Slow releases!", "Everything's getting boring!" and "Y U NO RELEASE STUFF?" and now I hear "GW is releasing too fast!", "Can't keep up!", "Too dynamic, hard to adapt to changes!" and "Y U NO SLOW DOWN?".

In all honesty, so many people whined about 40k/WFB being stagnant and boring, now GW changed the pace so everyone can be happy with their armies, even trying to please both WFB and 40k players and what happens? People whine because the meta changes constantly, making it more of a challenge for players. Accuse me of being a GW Apologist or blind fanboy/idiot all you want, but I really am somewhat concerned about the community seeing how negative it is, no matter what happens. Of course the price hikes and poorly balanced books are an annoyance, which lead to Allies Chart abuse, but there's no pleasing for the 40k community.

Books coming out too slowly, game stagnant! <----> Books coming out too fast, can't keep up!
6th ed sucks, it's the worst, go die in hell, GW! <----> 7th ed with hotfixes? God, we want 6th to stay!
My army's new book doesn't change anything! <----> With every next book for my army I have to adapt and buy new stuff!

I know that some people raise valid points, but to me at the moment it seems that no matter what GW does, the community will never be pleased. The new IG book is a great example as it is fairly balanced, brought some changes to IG armies and kept the old feel. Now things I heard about it(aside those few that could admit that it's one of the best books in 6th ed(not in terms of power), now here's what I read:
-Oh noes, vendetta got a rightful point cost nerf! I can't spam the cheese anymoar, oh woe!
-Oh noes, I have to adjust my army I've been playing for years, the horror! I'll have to change my army list a bit..!
-Oh noes, they didn't fix any of the old, unplayable units!(while this one is fairly true for Ogryns and Rough Riders, they actually made Armoured Sentinels viable with point cost drops; also - like any other book made formerly unplayable models playable now).

You know what's worst? All those doomsayers on their high horses predicting that new edition will be gak and will kill 40k.. and if it doesn't, they'll just move the date of GW's/40k's death a bit further, not aknowledging that they were wrong. Like those end of the world maniacs predicting the apocalypse over and over, and when it doesn't happen, they just keep repeating the same crap after some time, knowing that THIS TIME THEY WILL BE RIGHT! Kinda reminds me of saying "traffic light will switch now! No.. now! Now! ... NOW! No- YES, I'm a wizard!"

Here's how I see it:

- a new edition (6e) was needed as 5e had reached the end of it's life.

- 6e introduced certain mechanics and wording which showed that either it hadn't been play tested or that those testers simply didn't explore the realm of what was possible. Hence the need for faq's that did things like rewriting challenges, the SA book to fix buildings, etc.

- GW cranked up their release schedule to finally meet player demands. Yes, some people weren't crazy about this - and we should ignore them; however, those that were finally getting books after 10 years were mostly happy. Unfortunately, the quality of the releases are .. lacking. Ignoring power levels, we have supplements which are inconsistent in how they worked with the parent codex, interesting rule quandries (ie: grav gun cover saves anyone?) - mostly due to inconsistent wording or incomplete thoughts and the Ally system is shown to be fundamentally flawed.

- Compounding this, GW seems intent on bringing Apoc into regular 40k (escalation). Various people try this out and most games boil down to either Rock/Paper/Scissors OR, worse, the result is determined simply by who goes first. This is generally unacceptable.

- Initially FAQs were coming fairly regularly, but anything of substance stopped over a year ago. My "guess" is that FAQs stopped when GW made the decision to put out 7e.

- We get a glimpse through that leaked White Dwarf column of what's coming: Apoc being even more firmly embedded in the game through Unbounded, a Psychic phase which may or may not be a good thing and updates to the Ally table - which we HOPE will reign in some of the problems.

Of course, there are other factors at play here such as:
- Prices which seem to be out of whack with expectations.
- Books being recently released which will likely be deprecated with 7e (Escalation, Stronghold Assault) - this is just a bad way to treat customers.
- Complete lack of a feedback mechanism to tell GW what does and does not work.
- A perceived schism between so called "fluffy" and "tournament" players with regards to the core rules.

Ultimately a bunch of us are extremely skeptical that GW is actually correcting anything. There has been somewhat of an exodus from GW due to issues with the current releases. So, take what you will, but it's not as simple as you suggest.

 da001 wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 da001 wrote:

I sort of like it this way, actually. They release stuff, players use it as they please.

And then you get that one nob who has to take everything *X-tra srs*, and the whole group falls apart.

Or your army-at-heart (like CSM) cannot win a game without everyone seriously holding back. Even casual fun games need some sort of balance.

I think we reached a point of no return with that some time ago.

Imagine the game as a car. The car already lost its seats and lights, and the engine exploded some time ago, killing most of the passengers and setting others on fire. Sure, they are taking out the wheels now, but who cares? It has been a long while since the car was fit to use

At this point, if your group is not taking control of TFG-"this is serious business" nobs spamming superunit X, your group has already fallen. (Or has embraced the madness, if you are all rich enough and the arms race the game has become is your thing). And if you play fluffy CSM (or fluffy nids, or most lists for that matter), and you are not tweaking the game to give it some balance... well, good luck with that.

If your group is not fixing the game at this moment, I don´t know what are you waiting for.

A reason to cry manly tears as I hit my Chaos Lord with a hammer.

 Ailaros wrote:
Hmm, if only past performance were an indicator of future results.

Alas.

Yeah, learning from history is stupid! Just because a bunch of people died when the lava and ash fell on them it doesn't mean that the volcano eruption caused their deaths. Let's all move to Pompeii!

Past performance is an indicator of future results. It's why people stop walking into walls at a young age. Its's the entire basis of science. Empirical analysis and reproducible results.

It fits here. We have known data. Two six month periods of decreased revenues. A LARGE devaluation in stock prices due to sell of after the last financial report. A company that has stated that they have massively reduced it operating expenses (down to the bone!) A tried and true method that has increased revenues in the past. A company that relies on it's revenue stream to prevent further stock sell off. A company changing its past business practices unexpectedly at a time that coincides immediately prior to its third consecutive financial reporting period.

The "Post hoc, ergo propter hoc" logical fallacy does sometimes apply. Usually because the observer is making the observations in a vacuum or has a limited understanding of the events. This is not one of those times.

 ErikSetzer wrote:

 generalchaos34 wrote:
I think some people forget that this new edition has probably been in the pipeline for at least 6 months to a year when you consider stuff like graphic design and sending things to the printer, etc.

Well, aside from that meaning it took them only a year and a half to decide to kill 6th edition - KILL IT WITH FIRE!!! - I feel the need to correct something here. Graphic design and such do NOT take as long as you think. Especially when you have as many people working on it as GW do. They've been able to throw out gobs of stuff in print and digital rapidly. They have plenty of artwork already. Basically, they already had the vast majority of the work needed done already. It's not that hard, then, to take and assemble all of that together into a book and print it.

At the company I work for, we have multiple brands we sell stuff through. One of them has over 20,000 items in the catalog, a catalog so thick that you could seriously kill a person if you hit them with it. All of those items need descriptions, pricing, and the whole thing needs laid out right. This year, our advertising team redid the catalog to include more items than before, in a new layout that allowed them to put more items per page and fewer pages overall (but still, seriously, don't get smacked with one of these things). And you know what? It didn't take them six months. It can't take them that long because we don't have that kind of time.

The maximum time it'd take GW to get that stuff together is two months, given the staff they have. They can pull together everything, have different people working on different sections, create any new graphics they have, and toss it to a printer who can churn out thousands of copies in a time that would surprise you.

And if they'd been working on it as long as you say, it means Escalation and Stronghold Assault were even more blatant cash-grabs than they already were, because they were planning to replace them already by the time they released them.

I think you are overestimating the size of GWs staff and capabilities, or whether or not they even own their own printing presses. Im saying that they have been planning this for at least 6 months, since you would have to have your printing shipping and distribution already done by now (i.e. all 7th edition is sitting in a warehouse as we speak waiting to ship in a few days) and thats not counting the time they had to plan and create and hopefully playtest this stuff, while also working on their other projects. I think a window of at least six months is more than reasonable

 Selym wrote:
(...)
A reason to cry manly tears as I hit my Chaos Lord with a hammer.

Do not forget to laugh maniacally while doing so. Other way people could think you are insane or something.

 generalchaos34 wrote:

 ErikSetzer wrote:

 generalchaos34 wrote:
I think some people forget that this new edition has probably been in the pipeline for at least 6 months to a year when you consider stuff like graphic design and sending things to the printer, etc.

Well, aside from that meaning it took them only a year and a half to decide to kill 6th edition - KILL IT WITH FIRE!!! - I feel the need to correct something here. Graphic design and such do NOT take as long as you think. Especially when you have as many people working on it as GW do. They've been able to throw out gobs of stuff in print and digital rapidly. They have plenty of artwork already. Basically, they already had the vast majority of the work needed done already. It's not that hard, then, to take and assemble all of that together into a book and print it.

At the company I work for, we have multiple brands we sell stuff through. One of them has over 20,000 items in the catalog, a catalog so thick that you could seriously kill a person if you hit them with it. All of those items need descriptions, pricing, and the whole thing needs laid out right. This year, our advertising team redid the catalog to include more items than before, in a new layout that allowed them to put more items per page and fewer pages overall (but still, seriously, don't get smacked with one of these things). And you know what? It didn't take them six months. It can't take them that long because we don't have that kind of time.

The maximum time it'd take GW to get that stuff together is two months, given the staff they have. They can pull together everything, have different people working on different sections, create any new graphics they have, and toss it to a printer who can churn out thousands of copies in a time that would surprise you.

And if they'd been working on it as long as you say, it means Escalation and Stronghold Assault were even more blatant cash-grabs than they already were, because they were planning to replace them already by the time they released them.

I think you are overestimating the size of GWs staff and capabilities, or whether or not they even own their own printing presses. Im saying that they have been planning this for at least 6 months, since you would have to have your printing shipping and distribution already done by now (i.e. all 7th edition is sitting in a warehouse as we speak waiting to ship in a few days) and thats not counting the time they had to plan and create and hopefully playtest this stuff, while also working on their other projects. I think a window of at least six months is more than reasonable

Although I agree that they could have absolutely put something out in a 2 to 3 month time frame, I think it's been in design for a year. My reason is simply that we stopped seeing any type of real FAQ updates in April of '13. The only reason to no longer spend any time on them is if they were already planning on releasing 7e soon. I think the Stronghold and Escalation books were released as a way of testing the waters to see what the feedback would be, and also to try and gauge when the right time to release 7e might be.

I guess having one of the most enjoyable to play editions yet wasn't their thing.


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 Kilkrazy wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Well, there are sure lots of problems in 6 ed. Tons of problems i'd say. Way more than in 5-th. But i'm afraid that's not the main factor of creating a new edition. Let's see.

I don't think 6th is that bad. The Allies rules are ruinous, of course, but things like opportunity fire and variable charge distances are perfectly reasonable game mechanisms unless your army suffers badly because of them.

There are a lot of complaints about balance, as always. This has got worse because of Allies and Dataslates, not because of the core game rules.

A lot of people don't like Escalation being crammed into the game. It was fine as an option (Apocalypse.)

I have to agree with this.

It's funny when people tell me stuff like "40k community is actually made of many people with different opinions". Of course I know that, but if there's equal amount of hate and naysaying when GW does something as there is for it not doing that thing, why would they even pay attention to those people?

I know that listening to your community is a big thing, but sometimes when I look at Dakka or any other forum with 40k community on it, I see a bunch of cats, each displeased, each walking in a different direction and all of them meowing out their lack of satisfaction.

Why even bother reading all that crap? No matter what GW does, people will hate it equally anyway. People having different opinions are okay, but when vocal minority pretending to be the majority acts like a bunch of rabid dogs, do they really expect anyone to treat them seriously? Or is it just a case of a circlejerk for those that want others to stand up and shout with them, so they feel stronger and cooler?

I think that such behaviour is much more toxic to the community than any Allies Chart abuse allowed by unbalanced rules.