Automatically Appended Next Post: No, seriously though. When I watched that episode back in the day Lori being pregnant was not actually what came to my mind at all. But then I came on the Dakka and all the dakknauts in the comic book know where all convinced it was that. It completely made sense so I changed my mind. I don't know if I should put my original theory out there because seriously you non-comic book geeks do not respect the power of the spoiler tag!
I've seen multiple ideas floated about what he told Rick.
1) Everyone is already infected because the virus is/was airborne. They're all just resistant.
2) There's no cure.
3) Your cure is in another castle on another continent.
4) I really like your butt...
The longer they stay at this farm house without enacting some basic security measures the more I want to watch them all pay for being epically stupid.
Tyyr wrote:I've seen multiple ideas floated about what he told Rick.
1) Everyone is already infected because the virus is/was airborne. They're all just resistant.
2) There's no cure.
3) Your cure is in another castle on another continent.
4) I really like your butt...
The longer they stay at this farm house without enacting some basic security measures the more I want to watch them all pay for being epically stupid.
See, I was a firm believer that The Doc had told Rick that Lori was pregnant, it was the only thing that made sense ( as far as I could figure)...
Anything else that I can think of, A cure...no cure...another group working on a cure...a government base...them being immune/resistant, I think Rick would have already told the group...he'd have no reason not to and he's too much of a "white Knight" to just " keep secrets".
Him staying quiet about his wife being pregnant made some sense, not wanting to confront the issue, etc...but him staying silent about any other potentialy important bit of info really doesn't make much sense.
The problem is that the pregnancy thing doesn't jive with what they've all be going on about since. You've got Lori flatly declaring the baby to be Rick's, Rick never doing anything with regards to this info acting shocked that she's keeping this kind of secret from him, etc. Up until the last two episodes I was right with you about the Doc telling Rick Lori was knocked up but now, not so sure.
Tyyr wrote:The problem is that the pregnancy thing doesn't jive with what they've all be going on about since. You've got Lori flatly declaring the baby to be Rick's, Rick never doing anything with regards to this info acting shocked that she's keeping this kind of secret from him, etc. Up until the last two episodes I was right with you about the Doc telling Rick Lori was knocked up but now, not so sure.
Oh yeah, I agree with you, it wouldn't make sense now...but at the time it completely did, I really expected that when Rick found those morning after pills he was going to confront her with something along the lines of " First you hide that your pregnant from me...and now this?...I've known you were pregnant since we left the CDC." sort of thing.
But now, have to admit that I'm stumped as to what the Doc might have told him, like I said...anything about other groups, military bases, immunity & cures, just wouldn't fit...Rick would have said something about any of those things by now IMO.
I'm beginning to wonder if a writer just didn't drop the ball or something .
Tyyr wrote:The problem is that the pregnancy thing doesn't jive with what they've all be going on about since. You've got Lori flatly declaring the baby to be Rick's, Rick never doing anything with regards to this info acting shocked that she's keeping this kind of secret from him, etc. Up until the last two episodes I was right with you about the Doc telling Rick Lori was knocked up but now, not so sure.
Oh yeah, I agree with you, it wouldn't make sense now...but at the time it completely did, I really expected that when Rick found those morning after pills he was going to confront her with something along the lines of " First you hide that your pregnant from me...and now this?...I've known you were pregnant since we left the CDC." sort of thing.
But now, have to admit that I'm stumped as to what the Doc might have told him, like I said...anything about other groups, military bases, immunity & cures, just wouldn't fit...Rick would have said something about any of those things by now IMO.
I'm beginning to wonder if a writer just didn't drop the ball or something .
Maybe he was just asking Rick if those pants made his butt look big. I think Rick would keep that to himself...
Tyyr wrote:I've seen multiple ideas floated about what he told Rick.
1) Everyone is already infected because the virus is/was airborne. They're all just resistant.
2) There's no cure.
3) Your cure is in another castle on another continent.
4) I really like your butt...
The longer they stay at this farm house without enacting some basic security measures the more I want to watch them all pay for being epically stupid.
Spoiler:
Number 1 was what I thought at first except they're not resistant it's just not active yet.
Little background: to me Max Brooksian zombies are the standard, which are probably based on George A. Romero anyway.
Although Kirkman has never read the Zombie Survival Guide, Kirkmanian Zombies only differ from Brooksian zombies in 2 ways.
1)Kirkmanian Zombies enjoy snacking on the occasianal horse or other animal. Brooksian zombies only crave human flesh
Spoiler:
2) Kirkmanian Zombie virus can be latent in people. It's airborne and is in your system but won't become "active" until you die. So someone who has not been bitten and killed by a zombie can spontaneously reanimate. So I figure Mad Scientist guy said "You're all infected."
Another reason I changed my mind is because imo that doesn't seem like as big a deal as the pregnancy, at least to mainstream audiences. In retrospect maybe it is a bigger deal, I don't know.
Finally, to complicate things even more the zombies in the TWD TV show aren't even Kirkmanian zombies. They also are slightly different. These Darabontian zombies, for lack of a better term ,differ in two ways of their own.
1) They'll use tools. They'll grab a rock to break a window, or use a ladder.
2) They're a bit faster. It's TV so they want to make it a bit more dramatic.
...The same sort of " rule" holds true in the Romero mythos, one doesn't have to be bitten to become a zombie, anyone who dies...unless they die of head/brain trauma, will reanimate, and I suppose the Doc could have told Rick something along those lines...but, why would he stay quiet about it? seems to me that would be something he'd let everyone know as quickly as he could...plus it doesn't seem like a big enough " surprise" to spring on the viewer...
...The same sort of " rule" holds true in the Romero mythos, one doesn't have to be bitten to become a zombie, anyone who dies...unless they die of head/brain trauma, will reanimate, and I suppose the Doc could have told Rick something along those lines...but, why would he stay quiet about it? seems to me that would be something he'd let everyone know as quickly as he could...plus it doesn't seem like a big enough " surprise" to spring on the viewer...
Well, we know Rick's whole character and story is about hope. Y'know, "WE HAVE TO WANT TO LIVE PEOPLE!" thing is brought up in some way every episode. I think Rick thinks that if everyone knew that it would just suck all the hope and will to live out of everyone.
Sophie looked like she had a wound on her shoulder so she might have been nibbled just a touch. While I liked the reveal at the end, I still feel like to much of the actions are being driven by the plot and not by the characters; people are doing dumb stuff or having ott reactions just so we can get get from A to B.
I can say, its about fething TIME something happened over there. Dont get me wrong, I love this show, but how long do we have to sit and stare at a tranquil farm house? Im sure, but in a world that went to zombies, where there is easily 10s of thousands of zombies in any given area, how in the blue FETH are they staying so untouched? I dont get it.
But yea, last night was nice, and I can say, Shane, its about goddamn time buddy. Im telling you folks, if you dont like how Shane checks himself in Zombie land, then you dont want to be part of my group, thats all Im saying
Um, wow. While I haven't been among those clamoring for the show to get back to the season 1 style of constant zombie killing and action I have to admit that the slow pace of the show has had me wishing things would come to a head on the far. Did they ever.
Spoiler:
*I actually like Shane right now. I wouldn't want to share a camp with him but on the show I'm loving how his character is coming apart at the seams. He's having his donkey-cave moments but at the same time really consider what's been going on with the guy. He's forced to leave his best friend in the hospital, likely to die either to die due to lack of care or from becoming a zombie snack. Winds up falling in with said "dead" friend's wife. Takes over responsibility for her and her son and finds the role something he likes. He also becomes the leader of this group. Then Rick shows back up and the woman who he'd been involved with suddenly won't have anything to do with him, the boy who was becoming his sort of son suddenly spends all his time with someone else, and his leadership of the group is transfered almost instantly to Rick. It was a huge feth up to his world. Then it just keeps getting more and more fethed up as time goes on with Rick making choices that lower their odds of survival from his perspective. Things just keep happening and he feels largely helpless to correct them and get the group back onto the "correct" path. With a type A personality like his this just messes with him until we get what happens last night. As a final, "feth off," the woman he cared about who is carrying his son tells him it will never be his and Rick shows up with a walker in tow. It's not hard to see how he might finally go off the deep end. The best part of it all is that through it all they've managed to keep Shane at a point where it's hard to argue with him. Most of what he advocates is, while dickish, the moves most likely to help them survive. Even his breakdown at the end forces the group to resolve some serious issues they are having with this situation. He's very interesting right now.
*Daryl's interaction with Carol in the barn was good. I've seen him get some gak for it other places since he forgave Andrea for shooting him but calls Carol a dumb bitch for what she said. Really think about it though. When he forgave Andrea it wasn't just him being nice, he specifically says she was trying to defend the camp and that's why she was forgiven. Carol is abandoning the hope of finding her daughter, the thing that Daryl has been doing all this time and nearly got killed doing, and she's giving up on it. I'd be pissed too if I'd had to pull an arrow out of my side for this woman's cause only to have her turn around and go, "Whatev's, LOL."
*Is T-Dog still even in this show anymore. I think the random twenty something guy that lives on the farm has had as much screen time and as many lines as T-Dog this season.
*What the hell possessed Dale to do that? I've been on Dale's side, sort of (blowing off Andrea almost killing Daryl and Rick or Shane in the process, WTF?) but taking the group's weapons and going to bury them in a swamp, most likely ruining them? What the hell man? This is taking his busy body tendencies WAY overboard. Yeah, Rick wants to try and work things out but Dale KNOWS the barn is full of walkers and they aren't really safe. So he takes most of the weapons and buries them? His lines about this world not taking his humanity like it got Shane's were good but I was thinking, "Yeah but apparently it got your sanity," the entire time.
*Glenn/Maggie is a lot of fun. It's playing out in a reasonable way and not in a vacuum. Maggie's coming around to seeing walkers as dangerous is being handled well and Glenn's admission that sick or zombies the walkers are dangerous and he's not going to tolerate them endangering Maggie was well played. I really liked how Maggie turned things around on Herschel and during the breakout I liked having Glenn give her a look and she just nodded, allowing him to help finish off the zombies and do what he was promising too, keep her from danger no matter what. Glenn even went a little caveman, taking the shotgun when Shane told him to, "Defend what's yours." Hmm, what could that mean I wonder?
*It's nice to see Carl on his feet again. Really sad that as he determinedly states they must find Sophie and can't leave until they do and then not even 30 minutes of screen time later his father has to put zombie-Sophia down right in front of his eyes. I think Shane slapping the pistol in Carl's hand and telling him to do whatever it takes to keep his mother safe was a great one and them loading a Chekov's Artillery Piece.
*Rick is losing it every bit as much as Shane, he's just doing it in a much quieter manner. The guy is in the middle of fighting for his marriage with his wife, the life of his son, and to keep this group of psychotic's from killing each other or getting themselves killed due to their own stupidity. It's slowly tearing the guy apart. Now add in Lori being knocked up and he's finally snapped, doing whatever it takes to get Herschel to let them stay, even going so far as to help lasso a pair of walkers and bring them back to the barn that's a quarter mile from where his pregnant wife and son live. It's one thing to put up with the danger that exists already, it's another to actively bring more to live next to you. However this is all brought to a head at the barn where it's now obvious to him that playing nice with Herschel is over.
*Herschel got a tremendous amount of growth this episode. Which is amazing given how much was going on but then again that shows great writing and direction that this episode got everyone involved in a meaningful way and advanced their characters, except for T-Dog. Anyways, his reasoning for doing things is more obvious. However we also get to see exactly why Herschel is clinging to this reasoning. He's never seen the reality of the walkers up close. You can see it in his face as Shane starts to pop that female zombie. He's watching that walker take shots that would drop any sick person, then kill anyone instantly and she keeps on coming. As Shane put it, "Can a sick person take this?" The only conceivable answer to that question as the walker is still snarling and coming after then with three gut shots, both lungs shot through, and her heart destroyed, is that no they're not just sick. All of which hits him when he makes the connection to his wife and son in the barn. If they're this then all his hope of a cure and getting them back is gone. They're just monsters, and he collapses, offering no resistance as Shane tears the barn open. Amazingly the actor manages to take this a step further as his wife and son are gunned down in front of him.
*The zombie massacre was so well done because it brought all these plot lines and character development moments together in one huge scene. Andrea not running or worried but calmly drawing her weapon. Daryl getting ready with the shotgun, seemingly eager to kill some walkers and get this bitchfest over with. Glenn and Maggie with Maggie finally letting go and Glenn stepping up. Herschel manages to have a total breakdown mid gun battle. Rick watches as Shane finally torches his hopes of peaceful settlement and possibly any chance of peace between them personally. Carl is introduced to the ugly reality of life, that often the bad guy's win. Carol finally gets to see Sophia again but Daryl is the one to have to hold her down. It was this gigantic car crash of plotlines that left me screaming, "NO YOU BASTARDS!" as the credits rolled and I realized I'd be waiting two to three months for this plot trainwreck to start to solve itself.
*I know I've said that I thought Daryl should be the one to kill Sophia if she was a walker and that just having Rick do it is uninspired. I'm going to retract that. Rick went schizo in this episode, doing whatever it takes to no be tossed off the farm. All his peace making and hope was wadded up, doused in gasoline, set alight, and had they're ashes pissed on. The culmination of this all was zombie Sophia. He was the one who left her in the woods. She's a walker because of him. After everything he and everyone else did to find her he had to put a .357 mag between her eyes. It's an opportunity to shatter Rick. I can only hope they take it. I like that you have at least one person trying to stay good, and sane, and cling to the morality of the pre-walking dead world, but if this person is going to be the leader of a group like this they need him to temper that with some practicality. They have the chance to do that now that Rick's been put through this. So they have an opportunity to use this moving forward. If they do or not will ultimately determine if they wasted a perfect opportunity for Daryl or not.
Overall I enjoyed last nights episode, though there where a few " just to further the plot" moments that I believe could have been done better I still think it was a damned good watch.
Spoiler:
...Shane continues to be one of my favorites and I really " get" what motivates him, seeing him take charge of the situations that all of the other characters were just dancing around and attempting to be " diplomatic" about was great.
Shane isn't a " bad guy" IMO, he's just looking at the situation realistically and making decisions that , from a " safe and sane world" perspective might seem vicious or cruel, but from a zombie invested/ your ass is on the line world perspective make complette sense.
Wasn't a big surprise to see zombie Sophia come staggering out of the barn, but it was well done, Crew cut mom's reactions seemed a bit flat ,actually wish she'd made it past Daryl and gotten to Sophia and been bitten, as I think that could have added to the overall vibe of the scene and really driven home the point Shane was making.
I like that it was Rick that stepped up to destroy Sophia, seems only right since he was responsiable for her being turned and also because he was so sure she was still alive and put everyone at risk looking for her, you could really see how discovering everything he believed and had risked lives for was a waste of time effected him, should make for some interesting conflict ( both internal and external ) when the show comes back.
I'm also really interested in seeing how Herschel reacts to what happened , he just watched a barn full of "people" he knew and cared for gunned down by a group of folks he was trying to get rid of, and I wonder if he will accept that it was the right thing to do or if he'll go bat gak.
Also interested in what Dale will be getting up too as well, The old dude seemed to be loosing it a bit by endangering the whole group by attempting to bury the guns ( in some shortsighted attempt to restrain Shane and "keep the peace").
I really think his tenacious grasp on the " old world" could be his undoing ( still like Dale as a character though).
Looking forward to the start of the next batch of episodes, I have a few predictions as to what's going to happen and will be interested to see if I'm correct.
Personally I was glad to see all of the frustration and angst between the characters finally come to a head. I was satisfied thought that it didn't culminate in the survivors shooting one another...yet...
Spoiler:
Throughout the season I was one of the ones who had a problem with all of the soap operaness of the character's interactions but looking back over the season and seeing last night's episode I can see why they did it...Last season was all about introducing hte setting , the characters and of course the zombies. there was confusion and death and generally a lot of stuff going on to acquaint the viewer with the rules and standards of an undead world, hence why there were so many zombies then compared to now...
This season was a lot more about the survivors realizing not only in their minds but in their hearts that the old world is gone, that the old standards of compassion and politeness and other socially demanded behaviors have since been thrown to the walking dead. I think Rick and Hershel represent a desire for things to go back the way they were and Shane represents the realization that that won't happen.
I couldn't help but feel a relief and a sense of "its about time" when Shane started his crackdown...he's the character that understands the "whatever it takes" aspect of their survival...too bad he's probably going to end up dead soon...
I think Rick's decision to shoot Sophia was a good one. Not only was it him taking responsibility for his decision to leave her out there, it was an act of mercy, doing it so nobody else had to. It was also an acceptance of sorts of Shane's way of thinking...
In this episode more than ever I think some of the actor's lines rang true. Shane and Dale's conflict finally came to a tipping point with Dale saying "this world was made for you." Personally I think that's got some truth to it but I really don't think Shane was like he is now before the outbreak, I think its more of a mater of the new world forcing him to adapt to survive, the others are just taking longer to get over matters of the heart.
Glen's statement that "Out here, secrets get you killed." Is definitely true. by the end I was glad nobody else was keeping secrets, it was annoying and petty. I think by now that grown adults should be able to realize that in this situation, if people aren't on the same page, they could die. But I guess its part of the whole "hoping everything can go back to the way it was." desire of most of the survivors.
For these two seasons I've tried not to pick favorites but I gotta say now that I'm liking Shane's "get stuff done" approach...it might be d-baggery in the highest calibre but hey, he's still breathing in the end and that's all that matters.
Not the biggest Shane fan but I must admit he made several decisions that I would have too last episode. Cracking the barn open to do some zombie killing, getting mad at Rick for wasting time zombie wrangling and obviously he had to stop Dale from burying the guns (seriously, what the hell was Dale thinking there?).
On the flip side he's being very stupid with Lori and Carl. He actually thinks he can just replace Rick as Husband and father. He even lai dout his case "I've got 4 saves how many does Rick have?" It's not a Goaltending position dude. Ditto with suddenly wanting to keep looking for Sophia just cuz Carl does.
Loved it. The only part I was rolled my eyes at was the score keeping that Shane started to talk about. That and I wanted to smack the farmer when he was being smug and holier than though and basically calling Ricks group a bunch of crazies.
i'm sure i would not survive in the not so distant zombie apocolypse...
I think Shane is not only a douche, he's a dangerous douche. his mentality is
survival, but not as a group. after what he did to Otis, there's no telling where he'd stop.
I agree with his stance on the barn, just not his execution(no pun intended). if he had
issues, he should have talked to Hershel with Rick. his actions endangers the groups
current situation. and desrtoyed part of Hershels world. not that it was healthy. Hershel
just had the old word ripped away from him. There are better ways to have done it.
And Rick. if he's any more passive, i swear a tree could do his part....
Sad, but expected about the missing girl. i don't understand why Hershel didn't just
tell them she was dead so they'd have possiblely moved on sooner.
Hershel didn't know. Otis was responsible for coralling the undead into the barn and he was eaten before anyone told him about a little girl they were looking for.
Hulksmash wrote:Hershel didn't know. Otis was responsible for coralling the undead into the barn and he was eaten before anyone told him about a little girl they were looking for.
In the Talking Dead Kirkman explains that Zombie Wrangling was Otis' job. So they didn't even know she was in there. Before Otis could tell anyone he got shot in the knee and eaten by zombies.
Hulksmash wrote:Loved it. The only part I was rolled my eyes at was the score keeping that Shane started to talk about. That and I wanted to smack the farmer when he was being smug and holier than though and basically calling Ricks group a bunch of crazies.
Yeah Hershel is really out of touch with what the world is now...Rick's not helping by beating around the bush but again, I think something in him either snapped or solidified when he had to shoot sophia...whther that will reverberate back on Shane or not remains to be seen, whatever the case the group relationship is definitely more tense now and its only a matter of time before some of them throw down...
I don't think Shane's reasoning was that of a "pay attention to me because I'm doing more for the group and you should be impressed" spin, it was more of a survival argument...Shane is in full on survival mode and possibly now thinks that because he is outperforming Rick that he is more suitable to be Lori's man...just a theory...but Shanes is an entire different type of sanity from the others'
I'm sensing the possibility for a group split...whenever a conflict occurs in the group it may split between those who support Rick and those who support Shane...
I laughed when Lori confronted Shane when he brought the guns out saying "this isn't your call to make" as if it was Rick's who has been unable to make a clear cut decision for half the season...
Shane messed up in last nights episode, and he messed up big. He was trying to make a power play to take over the group, then dropped the ball when he needed to step up. He let the zombies out, took down the zombie, but when Sophia stepped out he just put is head down. Rick had to step up and show that he could do what had to be done.
Rick did what he said earlier on in the episodes about finding her as a zombie. He stuck to his word, it shows that he is the kind of leadership material you need. Somebody who is looking out for the group as a whole. Shane only cares about himself, Lori, and Carl.
Rick is coming along nicely, where Shane is proving to be more and more dangerous to the group. The Zombie Apocalypse is about survival and the survival of your group. Not you and the girl you longed for when you thought your buddy had kicked the bucket.
Dreadwinter wrote:Shane only cares about himself, Lori, and Carl.
I think Carl just happens to be Lori's son. And Lori may have been knocked down the food chain
with Andera's suddenly needing "mutual stress relief". I seriously don't think Shane can be trusted
any longer.
And i forgot earlier. Dale hiding the guns, in the middle of WWZ, makes no sense at all. i understand
the desire to keep Shane away from them. Let Rick keep them. or even hide them in the farmhouse.
KingCracker wrote:Agreed, Im still a bit confused as to why the hell Dale was hiding the guns, specially that far out in the middle of no where. Any ideas?
That was all I was getting from it as well. But that doesnt make too much sense, as that leaves the rest of the group completely un armed, and seeing as hes ALWAYS the spotter for them, just seems weird he would leave the entire group unable to defend themselves
I wish they stuck to the graphic novels, everything is toned down and dragged out too much, I'm a fan of the series but can't see it in the same light as the graphic novels...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
KingCracker wrote:Agreed, Im still a bit confused as to why the hell Dale was hiding the guns, specially that far out in the middle of no where. Any ideas?
It also gives Dale a sense of power and belonging in the group, he is the oldest and feels that he should be their defender, having read the graphic novels and seing his love intrest that will (hopefully) fully flesh out later on (probably early next season) he really needs the positive interactions that being the groups savior gives him.
and basically calling Ricks group a bunch of crazies.
They're not?
Shane is Shane.
Andrea was all for killing herself about a week ago, is obsessed with guns while too screwy to trust with a staple gun, and now gets sexualy aroused from killing zombies.
Lori is about ready to off herself, let Carl die, and abort her baby due to depression.
Carol was a weeping puddle of humanity that is only now pulling herself together and very likely to go downhill again now.
Rick is so obsessed with keeping his family safe he's willing to take part in the zombie rodeo and refuses to inform the group about what's going on.
Dale was about to bury their weapons in a swamp which would virtually guarnatee their destruction in short order.
Daryl, while awesome, is starting to think walker ear necklaces are a great fashion choice.
The only people not on the verge of clinical insanity are Carl, Glenn, and T-Dog (maybe because we only see him get one line an episode).
I think Shane is not only a douche, he's a dangerous douche. his mentality is
survival, but not as a group. after what he did to Otis, there's no telling where he'd stop.
I agree with his stance on the barn, just not his execution(no pun intended). if he had
issues, he should have talked to Hershel with Rick. his actions endangers the groups
current situation. and desrtoyed part of Hershels world. not that it was healthy. Hershel
just had the old word ripped away from him. There are better ways to have done it.
This right here. Shane is only looking out for himself and Lori and Carl to a degree. Everything else at this point is just resources for him and them to consume. Shane is the anti-social dill weed's idea of a survivalist. You don't have to be a total douche to survive. Not to mention that long term survival is more assured with a group than solo.
His break down at the barn resolved a serious issue but in quite possibly the worst way he could short of burning down the barn and having flaming zombies on their hands. Right idea, horrific execution.
Rick did what he said earlier on in the episodes about finding her as a zombie. He stuck to his word, it shows that he is the kind of leadership material you need. Somebody who is looking out for the group as a whole. Shane only cares about himself, Lori, and Carl.
Don't be so sure. Rick's entire focus right now is on Lori, their baby, and Carl. He is not focused on the group as a whole any more than Shane is. He's not as big an ass as Shane, and his method would be alright for the group in general, but if anything this episode showed just how far he's willing to go to keep his family safe.
See, I kinda thought that maybe Dale anticipated what went down at the end of the episode. Remove the guns from the equation and that situation probably can't blow up the way it did, allowing them to stay on the farm in relative (albeit tense) safety. Or at least that might have been what was going through his head.
Spoiler:
I understand the feelings of posters who sympathize with Shane's "enough is enough" attitude, but it wasn't their land and thus wasn't their call. Herschel has his head in the sand, but Rick and company are now behaving like a bunch of armed thugs...toward other humans, not just zombies anymore. They're a very short step away from taking possession of the farm at gunpoint now. I'm sure the plot will force them to leave so that the show keeps moving, but considering where the group is at, I think locking Herschel and family in the barn and taking possession would be the natural next step. Even Rick would probably be amenable to that now given Lori's condition.
Dale might have been trying to avoid the ending scenario, but the logical way to dispose of them would have only required one gun. Shane's flip out required many but it was the worst way to handle it. I think that it was really mostly about keeping the guns from Shane and avoiding those guns getting turned to point at each other.
I understand the feelings of posters who sympathize with Shane's "enough is enough" attitude, but it wasn't their land and thus wasn't their call. Herschel has his head in the sand, but Rick and company are now behaving like a bunch of armed thugs...toward other humans, not just zombies anymore. They're a very short step away from taking possession of the farm at gunpoint now. I'm sure the plot will force them to leave so that the show keeps moving, but considering where the group is at, I think locking Herschel and family in the barn and taking possession would be the natural next step. Even Rick would probably be amenable to that now given Lori's condition.
Allow me to take the side of the donkey-cave, why shouldn't they? Herschel is in possession of something very valuable, a defensible (if not currently well defended) position, land to grow food on, cows and chickens for milk and eggs, and plenty of room for them to settle into and help each other and live in safety.
Instead he's doing his best to try and force them off his land. Now, society no longer exists. The land is no longer civilized. Rick is not wrong in his assertion that sending them back out in the wilderness, especially with a pregnant woman and eventually baby, could very well be a death sentence. If Rick truly believes that then when Hershel refuses it's time to pull out that Colt Python and say, "I strongly urge you to reconsider your position." Rick's group is armed, Hershel's is not. While working together and cooperating is the best solution, if one side is unwilling to do that then, and their lack of cooperation is putting you and yours in danger then it's time to settle it caveman style, a.k.a. my gun's bigger.
If the price of admission into Camp Dinnerbell is to start wrangling zombies and living next to that ticking time bomb then it's time to decide it's not worth paying and just take it.
gorgon wrote:See, I kinda thought that maybe Dale anticipated what went down at the end of the episode. Remove the guns from the equation and that situation probably can't blow up the way it did, allowing them to stay on the farm in relative (albeit tense) safety. Or at least that might have been what was going through his head.
[spoiler]I understand the feelings of posters who sympathize with Shane's "enough is enough" attitude, but it wasn't their land and thus wasn't their call. Herschel has his head in the sand, but Rick and company are now behaving like a bunch of armed thugs...toward other humans, not just zombies anymore. They're a very short step away from taking possession of the farm at gunpoint now. I'm sure the plot will force them to leave so that the show keeps moving, but considering where the group is at, I think locking Herschel and family in the barn and taking possession would be the natural next step. Even Rick would probably be amenable to that now given Lori's condition.
[/spoiler]
Respectfully, I disagree.
[spoiler]
-Land ownership pre-Zombie games is irrelevant. The only land you have is the only land you can fight to keep.
-Everyone at this point is just armed thugs. Thats the situaiton in a post apocalyptic environment until the armed thugs start to coagulate and re-assert control. Thats all order is in the first place.
-I'm actually not seeing what moves Shane has made that are incorrect in the series to date.
-I don't see them locking the existing group in the barn. I see a foreceful integration or "We're here, we have guns, we're staying like one big happy family now."
-Having said that I don't see their locale as praticularly safe. Since the episode started they have had 2-3 zombie encounters in walking distance. Its not their location is actually secure if a herd comes through.
No, if you don't like living under his rules, then it's time to LEAVE. They can find another farmhouse for Lori to knit booties in. It's just easier to take it from Herschel, which goes back to them behaving like armed thugs and thieves and not civilized people. And note that up to this point, the group has mostly behaved in a civilized way. Defending yourself <> uncivilized.
It's easy to say "who cares about acting civilly, civilization has ended." But civilization isn't really about government institutions and laws written on paper, it's about how people behave toward one another. People choose whether they behave in a civilized way...it isn't something forced on them by their environment. The group has other, civilized options in this case. But it's fair to say Rick, the moral compass, is teetering. Quite a change from the guy who went back into the city to rescue one man who was a PITA anyway.
Regarding Dale, I'm probably overstating it. But I think Dale recognized that the entire situation was the powderkeg, not Shane. Shane's just the match.
@Fraz:
Spoiler:
If their land (in the family for generations) was stolen from them, there's no way Herschel and co. would accept it and be part of a "happy family." Realistically, they would resent it to an extreme, and likely would end up fighting back in some fashion. Sure, Rick and company have guns, but it'd be pretty easy to poison their milk, wouldn't it? Forced integration could not possibly end well. Anyone smart would lock the family up or otherwise limit their movements, etc. If you're going to be a thief and thug, you gotta go all in.
Regarding property, it's Herschel's land and the group knows it.
Except that Herchel is the only one really opposed to them staying that's been noticed. Add in the fact that they specifically mentioned all the local farms were burnt out or infestest heavily with walkers and if you want to settle in then Herchel's really is the only place.
That being said I don't think the farm is safe at all once the massive hordes of the undead spread from the major cities out into the country side.
If their land (in the family for generations) was stolen from them, there's no way Herschel and co. would accept it and be part of a "happy family." Realistically, they would resent it to an extreme, and likely would end up fighting back in some fashion. Sure, Rick and company have guns, but it'd be pretty easy to poison their milk, wouldn't it? Forced integration could not possibly end well. Anyone smart would lock the family up or otherwise limit their movements, etc. If you're going to be a thief and thug, you gotta go all in.
Regarding property, it's Herschel's land and the group knows it.
Or
Spoiler:
1. Rick: "see whats out there? Now lets join together and face this as best we can - what say you?"
A. Everyone but Hershel says yes. Well Hershel's kind of on his own at that point
B. Everyone agrees. Its the new normal.
C. The farm folk don't agree. Well then I guess there's room enough in the zombie well for 'em. There's no justice. There's just us.
-Having said that I don't see their locale as praticularly safe. Since the episode started they have had 2-3 zombie encounters in walking distance. Its not their location is actually secure if a herd comes through.
It's a very large open area that has little cover between the treeline and the house. The house sits on top of a nice hill. You've got 300+ yards of clear view in every direction (more in many) allowing you to spot walkers coming from a long ways away. In most areas there's some kind of cover to hide zombies like buildings, trees, underbrush, just terrain being in the way. As is the farm serves as a good starting point. Personally I think they need to be working on fortifying the house and then fortifying the perimeter.
No, if you don't like living under his rules, then it's time to LEAVE. They can find another farmhouse for Lori to knit booties in. It's just easier to take it from Herschel, which goes back to them behaving like armed thugs and thieves and not civilized people. And note that up to this point, the group has mostly behaved in a civilized way. Defending yourself <> uncivilized.
It's easy to say "who cares about acting civilly, civilization has ended." But civilization isn't really about government institutions and laws written on paper, it's about how people behave toward one another. People choose whether they behave in a civilized way...it isn't something forced on them by their environment.
Actually civilization is largely forced upon most people by dint of laws and punishments for disobeying and various incentives to obey.
We're not dealing with a situation where things are nice and safe. The last time they were on the highway they had a herd of 100+ zombies roam by. Maggie has stated to the "get another farm" idea that every other farm nearby is burned down or destroyed. They are relatively safe and secure where they are right now, the area they would have to go to in order to find another suitable place is far more dangerous. The odd of some of their number being injured (T-Dog, Carl) or killed (you know who) in the process of finding another place are high.
It's nice to say, "Let's all be civilized," when it's just a thought exercise but let's consider the situation, really. The last time they camped out in a less than great area walkers stumbled upon their camp and killed Amy and Carol's husband as well as biting and condeming Jim to death. Since going out on the road they have had T-Dog severly injured, Carl shot, and Sophia wandered off. Since they have set up camp... well Daryl got an arrow through his side but that's it. This time has been the least dangerous they've had in a while. They also aren't having to scavenge as much since water, milk, eggs, and possibly other food is being grown right where they are. They've had fewer encounters with walkers. This traumatized group is now facing down the prospect of being forced back out into that wilderness that has claimed multiple lives and left several members seriously injured.
So, you want them to just say, "Ok Hershel, that's cool and all, have a nice apocalypse," and go? Rick's not wrong, if Hershel does evict them it is highly likely that they will lose more people, people who wouldn't have died if Hershel had let them stay. So facing the prospect of watching your people die versus one pain in the ass old man's rules you want them to pack up and go? You'd just subject your young son, pregnant wife, and the lives of half a dozen people who look to you for leadership to danger and almost certain death just follow this old prick's rules?
No, you pull out your pistol and tell him he needs to think long and hard about peaceful cohabitation or you'll ask the next in his line of succession for their answer.
It's Herschel's call. He obviously gets a bad vibe from these people and quite frankly he may be right. He has been more than accommodating. You could argue that if he hadn't bothered to save Carl's life and just shooed them away immediately he wouldn't be in this situation. No good deed goes unpunished.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:It's Herschel's call. He obviously gets a bad vibe from these people and quite frankly he may be right. He has been more than accommodating. You could argue that if he hadn't bothered to save Carl's life and just shooed them away immediately he wouldn't be in this situation. No good deed goes unpunished.
You could argue if his man hadn't capped the kid they wouldn't be there either.
Under an enlightened Frazzled rule all of them would have been exterminated if you shot my kid. This be nice crap is just that, crap.
If he hadn't tried to save Carl I'm not sure anyone on Herchels farm over a certain age would be alive. Remember it was one of his people that shot the boy that makes him responsible from a leadership standpoint.
Sorry, once the world ends it's tribe mentaility and not society. That means your immediate group is more important than anyone else. And when a strong tribe moves into a weak tribes location that tribe get assimilated (by choice or not) or moves on. Ricks tribe is stronger.
Hulksmash wrote:If he hadn't tried to save Carl I'm not sure anyone on Herchels farm over a certain age would be alive. Remember it was one of his people that shot the boy that makes him responsible from a leadership standpoint.
Sorry, once the world ends it's tribe mentaility and not society. That means your immediate group is more important than anyone else. And when a strong tribe moves into a weak tribes location that tribe get assimilated (by choice or not) or moves on. Ricks tribe is stronger.
Exactly. Unless of course civilization rears its ugly head, then its:
KamikazeCanuck wrote:It's Herschel's call. He obviously gets a bad vibe from these people and quite frankly he may be right. He has been more than accommodating. You could argue that if he hadn't bothered to save Carl's life and just shooed them away immediately he wouldn't be in this situation. No good deed goes unpunished.
You could argue if his man hadn't capped the kid they wouldn't be there either.
Under an enlightened Frazzled rule all of them would have been exterminated if you shot my kid. This be nice crap is just that, crap.
Frazz have you ever read a group of books called "The Horseclans" Author name of Adams...don't remember his given name.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:It's Herschel's call. He obviously gets a bad vibe from these people and quite frankly he may be right. He has been more than accommodating. You could argue that if he hadn't bothered to save Carl's life and just shooed them away immediately he wouldn't be in this situation. No good deed goes unpunished.
You could argue if his man hadn't capped the kid they wouldn't be there either.
Under an enlightened Frazzled rule all of them would have been exterminated if you shot my kid. This be nice crap is just that, crap.
Frazz have you ever read a group of books called "The Horseclans" Author name of Adams...don't remember his given name.
At least the first 3 books are worth reading...you'd probably like them. I found them each for about 70 cents plus shipping on amazon in 2006.
You might appreciate the way civilization, eco hippies, and Europeans are portrayed.
Rick's group should leave Hershel's farm already. In the graphic novel, this meant leaving behind my personally favorite characters (i wont name names). There's too much tension between Hershel trying to take control and Rick's group retaliating against even Rick's orders.
Squidmanlolz wrote:Rick's group should leave Hershel's farm already. In the graphic novel, this meant leaving behind my personally favorite characters (i wont name names). There's too much tension between Hershel trying to take control and Rick's group retaliating against even Rick's orders.
Why leave? As Shane might be thinking...I kind of like it here and we have all the guns.
Squidmanlolz wrote:Rick's group should leave Hershel's farm already. In the graphic novel, this meant leaving behind my personally favorite characters (i wont name names). There's too much tension between Hershel trying to take control and Rick's group retaliating against even Rick's orders.
Why leave? As Shane might be thinking...I kind of like it here and we have all the guns.
Hostile takeover isn't always the answer, they owe Hershel and at the very least should follow his rule while on his farm
Squidmanlolz wrote:Rick's group should leave Hershel's farm already. In the graphic novel, this meant leaving behind my personally favorite characters (i wont name names). There's too much tension between Hershel trying to take control and Rick's group retaliating against even Rick's orders.
Why leave? As Shane might be thinking...I kind of like it here and we have all the guns.
Hostile takeover isn't always the answer, they owe Hershel and at the very least should follow his rule while on his farm
Again, and this is all done with respect to you adn your opinion, but they don't owe him anything besides maybe a dirt nap for nearly killing one of their own.
Squidmanlolz wrote:Hershel didn't have to offer his hospitality, he could have turned them away at his doorstep.
And then it would be Otis versus The Gang. (They said he was the only one who knew guns.)
I don't see Otis crawling out of that one alive.
You are confusing the TWD guys with the local DakkaDakka Roaming Deathsquad of Frazzled and Hulksmash. The TWD guys are a bit more mellow. Frazzled constantly calls for orbital bombardment of hippies.
You are confusing the TWD guys with the local DakkaDakka Roaming Deathsquad of Frazzled and Hulksmash. The TWD guys are a bit more mellow. Frazzled constantly calls for orbital bombardment of hippies.
Do you mean shooting hippies with space-cannons, or shooting hippies out of space-cannons?
pretty much the same effect but still...
Honestly I think a lot of what's keeping that group even as civil and kind as it is that most of the group are still thinking in the old world terms and that Rick & Shane are cops. Once society falls groups will grow up around strong personalities. And might makes right will be back in a big way. Herchel hasn't accepted the world has changed and one of his people was dumb enough to shoot a kid in the wood.
Not sure how stating the above makes me a member of a roaving death squad but that's cool.
You wanted all adults on the farm put to death for a hunting accident. Jesus, the only thing worse than a roaming deathsquad is a roaming deathsquad that doesn't know it's a roaming deathsquad.
Most people will be too busy trying to survive to try and thrive. They won't be able to stop a group from carving out their little kingdom in the wastelands.
Squidmanlolz wrote:Hershel didn't have to offer his hospitality, he could have turned them away at his doorstep.
And then it would be Otis versus The Gang. (They said he was the only one who knew guns.)
I don't see Otis crawling out of that one alive.
You are confusing the TWD guys with the local DakkaDakka Roaming Deathsquad of Frazzled and Hulksmash. The TWD guys are a bit more mellow. Frazzled constantly calls for orbital bombardment of hippies.
But its the only way to be sure!
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WARORK93 wrote:Roaming death squads will be the SOP of the apocalypse...
Watch, people will stoop to new lows of depravity, totalitarianism, and xenophobia all in the name of survival...
The world would turn to the way of the Ork. Only da biggest an strongest can be da boss. Though to humans, itd be more only the most cunning and vial, but either way, same principal. Like I said earlier, if you guys are the ones that dont like Shanes extremism, then you wouldnt want to be in my group. Worst part is, in my personal group, my brothers are all of the same mind set. We would be some brutal bastards to survive
Hostile takeover isn't always the answer, they owe Hershel and at the very least should follow his rule while on his farm
When his rules place you in significant danger what is your motivation for following them? The moment Glenn said, "There's walkers in the barn." The next thing anyone said should have been, "Everyone get a gun." Hershel's rules rightly went out the window the second they found out about the danger those rules were putting them in. Logically I'd have never given the guns up in the first place.
We would be some brutal bastards to survive
The question is will you be brutal bastards only when you have to be or all the time just because you can? That's the issue with Shane. Few people say that he's wrong in protesting their loss of weapons, or clearing the barn. It's the way he goes about doing those things when he doesn't have to be a total prick about them.
Only when we have to be. I wouldnt be shooting people just cause, thats not me. But if I feel threatened, then the happy go lucky KC runs and hides, and the "Im going to put one in your belly, only so you can see me bash your face in" KC comes out
Automatically Appended Next Post: And I agree with you on the zombie thing. Thats what the group SHOULD of done right off the bat. Playing by his rules is one thing, but when he is endangering the entire group, he needs to be checked.
I think the big fallacy is the idea that adopting an amoral, might-makes-right approach actually improves their long-term survival chances. The real survivors would be those who work and build together, compromise, etc. That's what builds large, productive groups and real strength. Going down the path they're heading will inevitably put them into conflict with other survivors, and probably also lead to internal strife within the group. The latter is already happening.
Spoiler:
IMO, the group's big problem right now is that they've fallen into a deep pit of despair ever since they met crazy CDC guy. They had hope and purpose before that encounter. You can argue that Herschel has his head in the sand, but he also might be correct -- humanity may eventually overcome the disaster. The nature of the disease probably suggests that the danger level will drop off dramatically as population density decreases and zombies rot away. But the group seems to have almost completely given up on any future. Lori's baby is obviously a major symbolic point here.
I'll be interested to see where the show goes from here. Darkness and despair are fun for a while, but you have to have an element of hope for the characters to realistically keep going. BSG was grim as heck, but there was always the hope of Earth keeping the fleet working together and moving.
WARORK93 wrote:Roaming death squads will be the SOP of the apocalypse...
Watch, people will stoop to new lows of depravity, totalitarianism, and xenophobia all in the name of survival...
Remind you of anything?
Jr. High?
Well yes...that and High school, but I was talking about something more 40k related...
Like the Imperium of man!
gorgon wrote:I think the big fallacy is the idea that adopting an amoral, might-makes-right approach actually improves their long-term survival chances. The real survivors would be those who work and build together, compromise, etc. That's what builds large, productive groups and real strength. Going down the path they're heading will inevitably put them into conflict with other survivors, and probably also lead to internal strife within the group. The latter is already happening.
That's a good point and if you read the comics you'll see that at the very end of the still in production arc, you'll see that Rick realizes this (yeah, only after most of the people he knew are dead ).
But this is going to take some of the survivors getting off their high horses, putting away their pride, and lowering themselves to compromise. Taht's something I only see happening after they all really hit rock bottom...as of now Rick wants to combine with Hershel's group for that reason (and upon thinking, that's probably why Rick has been so diplomatic, so he can convince Hershel to work with them.) But Hershel is too stuck in old times to think that's possible...
From what I've seen of the new seaon, it looks like some horde is going to move through the farm and force them all to move on anyway...so the joke's on Rick and Hershel...
Frazzled wrote:Rick already tried to compromise. That got him nowhere. Time for some aggressive diplomacy.
Que Shane's impromptu zombie slaughter!
Exactly.
Note: I read the Wiki summmary of the comic arc so far (or per Wiki). The comic seems...convoluted. Of course most comics seem that way to me. Wait, I thought they killed that guy like 17 times. how is he still alive?
gorgon wrote:I think the big fallacy is the idea that adopting an amoral, might-makes-right approach actually improves their long-term survival chances. The real survivors would be those who work and build together, compromise, etc. That's what builds large, productive groups and real strength. Going down the path they're heading will inevitably put them into conflict with other survivors, and probably also lead to internal strife within the group. The latter is already happening.
It's not so much that might makes right is better for survival. Initially it simply the way people will react. 90% of people nowadays (probably more) have no idea how to survive long term without our current technology level (myself included). So at first, until the weeding out of that 90% either through death or adjustment, you're going to see far more might makes right. Then society will rebalance.
Right now you have people still coming to grips with what's happening. It's easy for us to sit back and say they should work together. But even the old man with his head in the sand isn't willing to do this. And unless that farmer's farm runs off of natural gas (which it's not since he's been seen using a gas generator) he's going to find himself needing people just for the planting and harvesting, let alone security from people even more inclined toward might makes right and walkers. But he's not thinking ahead either. No one is.
And in this situation it might not only be zombies which are eating people after to long (note I don't say I would, just that it would start to happen).
No, you pull out your pistol and tell him he needs to think long and hard about peaceful cohabitation or you'll ask the next in his line of succession for their answer.
Why of course you can stay, Sir. I would love to have your group of armed thu--I MEAN People stay as long as you please.
(Just don't you EVER have one of your people show up on my operating table again. We only have the most basic sorts of care, I'm a vet rather than a real doctor, unforseen complications, yadayada. It's not like your group has anyone with the knowledge to gainsay me when I say "gak happens!"...)
(PS: I probably know my own land. Other than that map, which only shows so much, you don't. Me and the gasoline have a date with the house, your tents and all your vehicles. Me and my sense of "Naw it ain't that bad!" (This is of course, stupid, but nonetheless, it is his belief.) are going to go someplace else. Enjoy!)
Funny thing about taking the force approach is that you are stuck going full-raider, or not at all. You start pissing on/off people that you just might need, and you are asking for deeper trouble than what you started with. Rick was playing it right for the long haul. Now, I believe he put his underwear on his head when he agreed to zombie-wrangle as anything more than a frat initiation, but PARTICULARLY in situations where the knowledge people have in their heads is at least as valuable as material, words are the better alternative. Sides, saves ammo for zombies.
No, you pull out your pistol and tell him he needs to think long and hard about peaceful cohabitation or you'll ask the next in his line of succession for their answer.
Why of course you can stay, Sir. I would love to have your group of armed thu--I MEAN People stay as long as you please.
(Just don't you EVER have one of your people show up on my operating table again. We only have the most basic sorts of care, I'm a vet rather than a real doctor, unforseen complications, yadayada. It's not like your group has anyone with the knowledge to gainsay me when I say "gak happens!"...)
(PS: I probably know my own land. Other than that map, which only shows so much, you don't. Me and the gasoline have a date with the house, your tents and all your vehicles. Me and my sense of "Naw it ain't that bad!" (This is of course, stupid, but nonetheless, it is his belief.) are going to go someplace else. Enjoy!)
Funny thing about taking the force approach is that you are stuck going full-raider, or not at all. You start pissing on/off people that you just might need, and you are asking for deeper trouble than what you started with. Rick was playing it right for the long haul. Now, I believe he put his underwear on his head when he agreed to zombie-wrangle as anything more than a frat initiation, but PARTICULARLY in situations where the knowledge people have in their heads is at least as valuable as material, words are the better alternative. Sides, saves ammo for zombies.
Me, in the right situation. If my group has no doctor, and their group does, I'm going to exercise caution in my strongarming. If my group has no idea how to run a ranch or a farm, and theirs does, similar matter. Best food producing farm in the world means absolutely nothing beyond the short term if my Band Of Ineptitude (Which TWD group seems to be.) lets all the crops get killed off for lack of anyone willing/able/alive to tend them.
Me, in the right situation. If my group has no doctor, and their group does, I'm going to exercise caution in my strongarming. If my group has no idea how to run a ranch or a farm, and theirs does, similar matter. Best food producing farm in the world means absolutely nothing beyond the short term if my Band Of Ineptitude (Which TWD group seems to be.) lets all the crops get killed off for lack of anyone willing/able/alive to tend them.
Thats all well and good but Doc has already told you to get out. He's not going to be helpful anyway.
In this case I have a firepower advantage, a manpower advantage, and the mental capacity to stall for time. With one of his people a new widow, another dead, and yet another given a serious wake-up call, his "I want you gone." front is lookin pretty lonely. He might just be faced with the choices of relenting or tending everything on his own and the people HE cares about going into the big mean world with the group of "armed thugs."
It's not like the zombies are going to send a representative to have a reasoned debate on whether my group killing them off on sight is a bad thing.
KingCracker wrote:I was sad to find out it wont return till February.........dammit
That is probably their way to drum up DVD sales. Instead of getting like 12 episodes on a box set we will be need to purchase half season sets. I guess as long as the sets are half the price of a normal season I will be OK with it.
AMC doesn't do the half season thing. The only ones who really do it anymore are Sci-Fi and USA. And both their half seasons are normally 12-13 episodes which is generally the same if not a few more episodes than the premium channels entire seasons. It probably has more to do with the drop off in sunday television veiwership during the holiday.
KingCracker wrote:Naw it wont be half the price, you crazy? They ask like 30-40 bucks for the first season, and that was what, 6 episodes?
Well damn...
I was talking out of my ass about the price. I had hopes it wouldn't end up like that. It is a shame that they are busting the seasons up like that. Other shows have way more. Shows like Fringe ha like 20 episodes for each season.
Movies are doing it too. Look at the last Harry Potter movie or that crapfest Twilight movie. I guess they realized they can make more money if they cut the movie in half and add in about an hour of filler.
Yea, its an annoying trend. I liked how Harry Potter ended and all, but the first part of the deathly hallows, was dreadfully boring.
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KamikazeCanuck wrote:It's pretty ridiculous how they can make 6 episodes, pat themselves on the back and call it a year.
Agreed, but at least they are coming back in February though. Last time, we waited until now So at least we will see more sooner. STILL waiting for Hell on wheels to pick up. Its sloooooooooooowly adding things, but I want it a bit quicker then next fething month
Hulksmash wrote:AMC doesn't do the half season thing. The only ones who really do it anymore are Sci-Fi and USA. And both their half seasons are normally 12-13 episodes which is generally the same if not a few more episodes than the premium channels entire seasons. It probably has more to do with the drop off in sunday television veiwership during the holiday.
Honestly, you see plenty of network shows air all repeats during January. February is a sweeps month (as is November, not coincidentally), so they save their good/new stuff for that month.
The real survivors would be those who work and build together, compromise, etc. That's what builds large, productive groups and real strength.
I don't disagree with you. The problem is that Hershel was showing no interesting in working together or comprimising with Rick's group, AT. ALL. In this situation Hershel was not willing to comprimise or work with them and what he was demanding would likely be a death sentence for some members of Rick's group. That's the issue. Rick spent five or six episodes trying to get Hershel to let them stay and Hershel wasn't budging.
(Just don't you EVER have one of your people show up on my operating table again. We only have the most basic sorts of care, I'm a vet rather than a real doctor, unforseen complications, yadayada. It's not like your group has anyone with the knowledge to gainsay me when I say "gak happens!"...)
There's a very simple motivational tool to handle this kind of situation. "If they die, your son dies too." It's entirely possible to motivate someone who's still got something to live for.
Me, in the right situation. If my group has no doctor, and their group does, I'm going to exercise caution in my strongarming. If my group has no idea how to run a ranch or a farm, and theirs does, similar matter. Best food producing farm in the world means absolutely nothing beyond the short term if my Band Of Ineptitude (Which TWD group seems to be.) lets all the crops get killed off for lack of anyone willing/able/alive to tend them.
And I totally agree with you. Strongarming should always be the option of last resort. However Hershel has managed to push it to the point where they are now on the last resort. They are either going to honor his wishes and just leave, which denies them the farm, his expertise, and it's resources, or they can strong arm him. They're as much up gak creek by just leaveing as if they strong armed him, more so because they'll be back on the road instead of holed up on the farm.
That is probably their way to drum up DVD sales.
No, viewership sucks over the holidays. December to January is pretty dead time for shows with people off at Holiday parties and staying with relatives who may not share their love of a good zombie show. So instead of making an expensive show at a time when ad revenue is down they put it on hold until people's asses are in the seats again and pick it back up. It's good business and I hope they keep making good decisions with the show so it stays on the air.
I must admit having now watched the episode I had more sympathy with Shanes POV. The barn breakout certainly turned out a lot better than in the comic............
But I don't think Rick and Shane can co-exisit in the same much longer and Shanes has just took his shot at regaining the leadership role.
be intersting to see what happens if the group was led by him rather than Rick - would it end up better or worse..........
How Rick and Shane handle things will be something to watch. Rick should likely blow up at Shane for not following his lead. Shane has two things to go off about, Rick losing his mind to play walker rodeo and Rick knowing about Hershel wanted them out but never mentioning it. If I'm a member of the group I worry about both potential "leader's" mental health. Right now I dunno if I'd want either of them in charge.
you don't need to be liked to be a leader - you just need to lead....most of us don't want to make the hard decisions - we would rather someone did that for us. People cried when Starlin died - despite all he did....
Shane seemed to be the leader before Rick returned and most backed him on his recent play regardng the barn. They backed him because he made the right decision.
Apart from Rick who else would step and lead the group??
I don't think even Andrea likes him - but she has limited choices and he cuaght her on an adrenaline buzz.....
Just watched the mid season finale. About time something happened. Was a good episode, cant wait for the rest of the season, the teaser looked good, looks to be a lot more action and conflict. It has been hit and miss so far, I likeed a couple of the slower paced episodes, its good to build some charachters background, but I would always like to know more about how they survive, like where do the go to the bathroom, where do they get their food, electricity, we saw a well so we know they have water, is stuff like that that makes it more belivable, and would be the stuff I would be most intrested in if i was a survivor lol.
Oh and T dog needs some more scenes, what is the point of him at the moment, hope he's not just there to get eaten later on. And I hope rick grows a pair now and starts to act like a leader now. Looking forward to feb.
Shane isn't a potential leader. No one likes him except Andrea.
Shane sees himself as one and is campaigning for the job. The newest shooter in the group is pretty solidly on his side. When he went to rally everyone to clear the barn there weren't a lot of people opposing him. You don't have to elect a leader, if Shane more or less takes the job and no one really opposes him then he's the new leader.
but I would always like to know more about how they survive, like where do the go to the bathroom, where do they get their food, electricity, we saw a well so we know they have water, is stuff like that that makes it more belivable, and would be the stuff I would be most intrested in if i was a survivor lol.
1) Outhouse
2) Stockpile, stores in town, it's a farm we've seen them collecting milk and eggs.
3) They have a gasoline generator, we saw it either in the finale or the episode before.
No, viewership sucks over the holidays. December to January is pretty dead time for shows with people off at Holiday parties and staying with relatives who may not share their love of a good zombie show. So instead of making an expensive show at a time when ad revenue is down they put it on hold until people's asses are in the seats again and pick it back up. It's good business and I hope they keep making good decisions with the show so it stays on the air.
Maybe at your house, but during the holidays around here people watch a lot of TV, especially during the Christmas break and when there is a lot of snow. Also I haven't seen too many shows that show half a season and then the other half several months later. It seems like a relatively new thing.
Fringe did it for the first time this season. Actually they didn't even show half the season before a break. They showed 7 episodes out of 20 and are now having a break like TWD. All the other seasons went straight through with maybe a two week break once. There number of viewers didn't decline during the holiday either at these times.
For instance season 3 of fringe from last year had:
5.22 million - October 14, 2010 4.82 million - November 11, 2010 5.13 million - December 2, 2010 4.87 million - January 21, 2011
That doesn't look like much of a decline to justify stopping a show at episode 7 and picking up with the other 13 episodes starting in January to me.
Now look at March through April for the same season of Fringe:
3.64 million - March 11 2011 3.65 million - April 15 2011 3.33 million - April 22 2011 3.29 million - May 6, 2011
So it looks to me like the number of viewers decline a lot more starting around spring and not during the holidays like you said. Of course this might be a fringe thing. I haven't looked at too many other shows to prove my point.
Tell you what, produce the numbers that prove me wrong. Multiple shows with increases in viewership over the holidays. Especially cable shows as opposed to network shows. If you can do that I'll change my mind. Largely I'm repeating what I've heard over the years that the Holidays are not prime TV watching time for this kind of show.
This is not the first show I've seen take a holidays break.
Yeah, as I said earlier, it's common to run repeats over the holidays and into January. That helps ensure fresh new content during the sweeps month of February. Same reason most series wrap up in May...that way the big season enders fall within a sweeps month.
Things aren't quite as rigid as they used to be in this regard. But it's still generally true. It's been a little while since I worked in the industry, but I do know what I'm talking about.
Tyyr wrote:Tell you what, produce the numbers that prove me wrong. Multiple shows with increases in viewership over the holidays. Especially cable shows as opposed to network shows. If you can do that I'll change my mind. Largely I'm repeating what I've heard over the years that the Holidays are not prime TV watching time for this kind of show.
This is not the first show I've seen take a holidays break.
Didn't I just produce some numbers in my previous post? You are talking about stuff you have heard. I showed numbers for one specific show that did not show signs of decline in the holidays and instead shown signs of decline in the spring time. When it gets cold, people stay inside and watch TV. When it gets warm in the spring they go out more.
Now don't get me wrong, shows are starting to do what you are saying, but I don't think it is because of a decline in viewers. Fringe Seasons 1-3 ran all the way through the holidays with new episodes each week and started to show decline in the spring. Now they are taking a break in season 4 like what TWD is doing. Maybe Fringe is an anomaly but the numbers, at least for that show there prove you wrong.
How about this? Do you think maybe they are starting to add a break into seasons in order to stretch the show a bit more so it doesn't have such a huge gap in-between seasons and DVDs? Right now they are saying TWD will have a season 2 DVD set right before season 3. If they take the break like what they are doing, they are shortening the gap in-between seasons.
I'd imagine that we'll have to sit through one or two more farm episodes, but I hope we'll get at least three non-farm episodes in the rest of the season.
Yeah, who knew he was such a quick shot!
Also I'm getting so sick of Dale's whining. It seems like with everybody taking sides on the barn issue the group is being divided into "babies" and "pragmatists."
All in all this episode was my favorite thus far in S2.
Great episode.
IMO, best episode of season 2, so far. The story seems a little predictable for the next few episodes. Rick seems a little too forgiving towards Shane. I'd like to see Shane's fate go the way it did in the graphic novel.
I think Shane's death is inevitable at this point. Between Shane telling Carl to defend his family, Shane and Rick's rising antagonism, and Lori beginning to see Shane's less savory side, I think it's only a matter of time before Carl pops him in the chest. Would make a good ending for the season.
Spoiler:
I'm a bit disheartened that we seem to be stuck in the farm for the rest of the season. They'll have to do at least one episode with Shane and Glen in the bar, one with them returning and hunting for Lori, and one to wrap up at the farm. I can't imagine that they'll have time to get them off the farm and into a new situation fast enough for a good season finale.
Lint wrote:Also I'm getting so sick of Dale's whining. It seems like with everybody taking sides on the barn issue the group is being divided into "babies" and "pragmatists."
Yeah, Dale's such a baby. I mean, why does he care that Shane murdered one human to save his skin, contemplated murdering Rick, and has acted in a generally reckless and mercurial nature?
The barn issue wasn't an immediate threat. The walkers had been contained in the barn for weeks/months with no escapes and no real progress made on breaking out. The group hadn't even known about the barn for most of their stay. Shane brought things to a head to suit his own purposes (painting Rick as ineffectual and weak, painting himself as a savior, making the group more amenable to a hostile takeover of the farm), not to help the group.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Squidmanlolz wrote:Great episode.
IMO, best episode of season 2, so far.
I agree, but I did think Lori's actions were a bit contrived.
RustyKnight wrote:Yeah, Dale's such a baby. I mean, why does he care that Shane murdered one human to save his skin, contemplated murdering Rick, and has acted in a generally reckless and mercurial nature?
Yeah pretty much. I will say that I wouldn't be surprised if it's Dale that shoots Shane. He's looking very frayed around the edges and while contrived (but not as contrived as Lori crashing the car and loosing the baby) it would be an interesting character moment for Dale.
I really liked the bar scene, I think it was a wake-up moment for all.
Rick beginning to see what is required moving forward in this new world.
The old man seeing how very very very very lucky he was that it was Rick's group that found his farm first, and not the bandits.
Glen seeing how big Rick's barrel is?
Yap, the bar scene was pretty badass. I want either Dale to shoot Shane, or Shane shoot Dale, either way, those two need to feth and just get it over with. I kept thinking the whole time, Rick was giving those guys the cold stare something fierce. And wow, he obviously practiced quick drawing while on the force
Im just going to come out and say it, I hope Lori dies
Oh it was Ill admit that. Though I think anything involving Darrel is just awesome. "I took a bullet, was shot with an arrow. No you want to find them, do it your own damn self" Well, thats the just of it anyways
Wait, Shane DIDN'T die almost right off the bat in the show?
Man, they changed a whole heck of a lot, didn't they?
They just made some events from the graphic novel longer, a lot longer, like the farm from book 2 iirc, yeah that turned into a season...
and they changed the order of some events.
I missed the first half of season 2, but last night's episode was really cool. I loved the bar scene.
Two of my buddies were watching it in 3d on their new "3d tv" lol
Having never seen the first half of the season (except the last episode before the break), I have to agree... that farm is a little boring... not like the episodes I remember watching from season 1.
Well I wont lie, the first half of season 2 is pretty much, the exact same thing as the last half. Id say watch the first episode of season 2, simply because it had a few rather tense moments. But your good after that
Wait, Shane DIDN'T die almost right off the bat in the show?
Man, they changed a whole heck of a lot, didn't they?
They just made some events from the graphic novel longer, a lot longer, like the farm from book 2 iirc, yeah that turned into a season...
and they changed the order of some events.
May be the only show in the world where the show is longer than the book. Each comic book is like 6 episodes now. Currently, it'll take 546 episodes to catch up.
Ok, since we are obviously past that point in both, how long was Rick in a coma in the tv series?
Because in the graphic novels it was only a month if I remember right, and I have a VERY hard time beleiving that a greiving wife would have an affair with his best friend after a month.
Slarg232 wrote:Ok, since we are obviously past that point in both, how long was Rick in a coma in the tv series?
Because in the graphic novels it was only a month if I remember right, and I have a VERY hard time beleiving that a greiving wife would have an affair with his best friend after a month.
I'm not sure exactly, enough time for a group from Philadelphia to make it down to Georgia...
Slarg232 wrote:Ok, since we are obviously past that point in both, how long was Rick in a coma in the tv series?
Because in the graphic novels it was only a month if I remember right, and I have a VERY hard time beleiving that a greiving wife would have an affair with his best friend after a month.
I'm not sure exactly, enough time for a group from Philadelphia to make it down to Georgia...
That could easily be made in a couple of days if they have the gas and stuff. I myself have gone from Las Vegas to North Dakota in two days.
Slarg232 wrote:Ok, since we are obviously past that point in both, how long was Rick in a coma in the tv series?
Because in the graphic novels it was only a month if I remember right, and I have a VERY hard time beleiving that a greiving wife would have an affair with his best friend after a month.
I'm not sure exactly, enough time for a group from Philadelphia to make it down to Georgia...
That could easily be made in a couple of days if they have the gas and stuff. I myself have gone from Las Vegas to North Dakota in two days.
They said the roads were jammed up already, and would have most likely waited for things in Philly to get bad before leaving, they might have had to make a good deal by foot. That being said, I don't see why people aren't settling into areas and rebuilding civilization, that seems more logical than wandering around, chasing rumors across the country.
Slarg232 wrote:Ok, since we are obviously past that point in both, how long was Rick in a coma in the tv series?
Because in the graphic novels it was only a month if I remember right, and I have a VERY hard time beleiving that a greiving wife would have an affair with his best friend after a month.
I'm not sure exactly, enough time for a group from Philadelphia to make it down to Georgia...
That could easily be made in a couple of days if they have the gas and stuff. I myself have gone from Las Vegas to North Dakota in two days.
They said the roads were jammed up already, and would have most likely waited for things in Philly to get bad before leaving, they might have had to make a good deal by foot. That being said, I don't see why people aren't settling into areas and rebuilding civilization, that seems more logical than wandering around, chasing rumors across the country.
Ah, fair enough.
Still, that was a major.... blech, thing about it that made the TV series feel as though they wanted Sex to have Sex.
MAJOR SPOILER!
Spoiler:
They do eventually try to rebuild civilization, just keep watching
I'm not sure how close they can follow the comic on that issue. I mean, they've already done some pretty controversial stuff, but THAT? Might be a bit far.
Oh, I don't know. That particular event isn't all that bad. They've already set it up in many ways...
Spoiler:
- Shane drawing an bead on Rick
- Shane killing Otis
- Carl saying, "Dad did the right thing by killing Sophia". As Lori says, Carl's turning cold.
Yes, Shane is practical, but he's really a jerk about it. Like Dave Navarro said on the Talking Dead:
Its like when your girlfriend asks how her pants look. You can say, "Hmm, you may want to go with another color," or you can say, "Those make your arse look huge." Both accomplish the same thing, but one is kinda a jerk move. Shane would go with the arse size comment... I loved this characterization of him, and this sort of behavior does not make him the most endearing of characters. So I think offing him wouldn't be that big of a surprise... Carl doing it would be just fine based on above bullets, I think.
No, the real surprise will be if the touch in any way the insanity of the General (is that his name? dude who kept his walker daughter with her teeth pulled out as a pet, and set up walker fights in the arena, etc... ) I really wish they would bring in Michonne as a strong female character, too.
Did lori appear to speed up after hitting the walker, thus causing the accident. Why didn't she er, brake.
Spoiler:
It did seem a bit off, didn't it. Amusing, but I think I'm just considering it as a continuity SNAFU. Or, it could be justified by her just panicking. People do weird stuff when their car fishtails... she could have hit the wrong pedal, etc. She doesn't really strike me as the best under pressure, you know? In fact she tends to just do whatever with zero thought... panic / react then clean up the consequences later. In a zombie apocalypse, that sort of modus operandi really should get her killed.
I have a VERY hard time beleiving that a greiving wife would have an affair with his best friend after a month.
Well she actually said why she did. She thought Rick was DEAD, not in a coma, and she needed someone to protect her and Carl. And considering the world was going to gak, FAST, I think that would easily happen in a month. A mother would do ANYTHING to keep their child/children alive and safe, including sleeping with the Alpha male
You know I don't think that guy was going to shoot Rick. He was probably just going to force him back to the farm at gun point. I guess it's still a justified shooting anyway. That's the problem wIth the show, it's all backwards.
Spoiler:
In the book he keeps running into all these horrible people evil people. As a result he becomes a very hard and brutal man. Well none of that stuff has happened so that shooting just comes out of no where IMO. So far all that's happened in the show is he's found an enclave of kind hearted people taking care of the elderly in Atlanta. That killing was out of character for TV Rick (but not comic Rick. It's like they've confused the two).
KamikazeCanuck wrote:You know I don't think that guy was going to shoot Rick. He was probably just going to force him back to the farm at gun point. I guess it's still a justified shooting anyway. That's the problem wIth the show, it's all backwards.
Spoiler:
In the book he keeps running into all these horrible people evil people. As a result he becomes a very hard and brutal man. Well none of that stuff has happened so that shooting just comes out of no where IMO. So far all that's happened in the show is he's found an enclave of kind hearted people taking care of the elderly in Atlanta. That killing was out of character for TV Rick (but not comic Rick. It's like they've confused the two).
Going to force him back to their farm by gun point......yea definitely deserved to eat some bullets I think. feth that guy, he was fishy, I would of shot him and his friend too, but TBH, a hell of a lot sooner. Like, "Hey you guys arBLAM!"
KamikazeCanuck wrote:You know I don't think that guy was going to shoot Rick. He was probably just going to force him back to the farm at gun point. I guess it's still a justified shooting anyway. That's the problem wIth the show, it's all backwards.
Spoiler:
In the book he keeps running into all these horrible people evil people. As a result he becomes a very hard and brutal man. Well none of that stuff has happened so that shooting just comes out of no where IMO. So far all that's happened in the show is he's found an enclave of kind hearted people taking care of the elderly in Atlanta. That killing was out of character for TV Rick (but not comic Rick. It's like they've confused the two).
Going to force him back to their farm by gun point......yea definitely deserved to eat some bullets I think. feth that guy, he was fishy, I would of shot him and his friend too, but TBH, a hell of a lot sooner. Like, "Hey you guys arBLAM!"
Oh I would have shot them too and sooner. Just doesn't seem like TV Rick wold have.
It was perfectly in character for TV Rick to fire first. Both people were acting extremely shifty, both were potential threats to Carl and Lori, and he didn't know that they wouldn't shoot him and Glen and force Hershel to take them to the farm. Hell, even just letting those two go knowing that about the farm would be asking for trouble. Throw in the fact that Rick just recently had to shoot Sophie and is facing extreme pressure from Lori and Shane, and it fits TV Rick perfectly to shoot the two when they go for their guns.
I have a VERY hard time beleiving that a greiving wife would have an affair with his best friend after a month.
Well she actually said why she did. She thought Rick was DEAD, not in a coma, and she needed someone to protect her and Carl. And considering the world was going to gak, FAST, I think that would easily happen in a month. A mother would do ANYTHING to keep their child/children alive and safe, including sleeping with the Alpha male
But why would sleeping with him be required, is what I'm getting at.
Shane was his best friend, he (should have) would have protected her without the sex. He even did so in the comics (though he tried, very often, to get some, from my understanding). To put it into the TV just feels like having sex in the show for no other reason than to have sex in the show....
Women are emotional creatures. If she though Rick was Dead and Shane was there protecting her and Carl then it makes sense she would develop fellings for him. The whole end of the world thing accelerated them.
Spoiler:
Its kind of the same thing with Glenn and Maggie. When you don't know if tomorrow will be your last day you tend to quickly develop feelings for who is around you.
I'm almost caught up to the latest episode. I finished season 1 on Netflix and god damn it was good. There was a season 2 marathon on AMC so I DVRed every episode and only have about two more to go. So far The Walking Dead is my favorite TV show behind Breaking Bad. Now I just need to finally catch up with Mad Men on netflix before season 5 starts next month. AMC has become my new favorite channel.
Women are emotional creatures. If she though Rick was Dead and Shane was there protecting her and Carl then it makes sense she would develop fellings for him. The whole end of the world thing accelerated them.
Spoiler:
In the books it did account for this; she slept with him on the way down, as a sort of "just needing release". After that, it all stopped, and she refused his advances, even before Rick showed up. It just doesn't make sense....
Spoiler:
Also, Glen and Maggie don't "love" eachother in the books; they are just the only ones left, and so start with the naughty. Neither of them have baggage coming into it, other than "No one else is here, so I might as well love you".
Women are emotional creatures. If she though Rick was Dead and Shane was there protecting her and Carl then it makes sense she would develop fellings for him. The whole end of the world thing accelerated them.
Spoiler:
In the books it did account for this; she slept with him on the way down, as a sort of "just needing release". After that, it all stopped, and she refused his advances, even before Rick showed up. It just doesn't make sense....
Spoiler:
A wise man once said "bitches make no sense". Trying to apply logic to the emotions of woman is a wild goose chase.
Finally got caught up. Sucks having to wait a week for new episodes now. The first half of season two felt to decompressed I mean season one was more fast paced. I get that they are trying to set up tension and flesh out the characters some more but
Spoiler:
Spending half a season looking for a girl that was dead in the barn all along WTF
Kilkrazy wrote:I would like to remind everyone that calling women "bitches" is not acceptable even if done within spoiler tags.
Thank you.
Spoiler:
Rick has sort of redeemed himself with me and I see what he is going for. The bar scene was pretty awesome. A little sad that Michael Raymond-James got killed off so quick. He is pretty good at playing a bad guy.
Rumor is that these last 6 episodes are the Darabontless ones and the new guy wants it to be more action orientated. If that means more episodes like this weeks I'm all for it. I think it was one of the best ones this season.
I'm not to bothered they have spent an entire season on a farm. I'm more bothered that they have gone an entire season without shooting andrea. I can't put my finger on why I dislike her so much but I'm starting to wish she had stayed in that bunker.
For some reason Andrea is awesome in the GN but just not very likable in the show - must admit thought the nw episode was great - good ending and some excellent bits and pieces -although the car crash was a bit unecesary.
remilia_scarlet wrote:at this point, shane should've been long dead, so I'm kinda dissapointed.
Yeah, it's my main beef with the TV series.
Spoiler:
Shane's death is kind of the push that starts Rick into being as crazy as he is towards the end of the first Omnibus. It's kind of important....
Sorry to go off topic, But Scarlet, is your Avatar a part of one of the episodes or a fan made pic? I'm only to Flim and Flam, the Apple Cider episode.
remilia_scarlet wrote:at this point, shane should've been long dead, so I'm kinda dissapointed.
Yeah, it's my main beef with the TV series.
Spoiler:
Shane's death is kind of the push that starts Rick into being as crazy as he is towards the end of the first Omnibus. It's kind of important....
Sorry to go off topic, But Scarlet, is your Avatar a part of one of the episodes or a fan made pic? I'm only to Flim and Flam, the Apple Cider episode.
I also have lost some interest after seeing felicia day on the talking dead, kinda killed my buzz.
you're right though, they probably won't move to the prison because they killed off otis too.
Automatically Appended Next Post: not sure about my icon, just found it browsing.
So I had a dream about the Walking Dead last night; I was Rick, and a certain crazy woman was Lori. Everyone else was the character. After a while, Shane and I were getting in a fight, and then "Lori" walked up and told me that Carl wasn't my kid, but Shane's. So, in a fit of rage I left the group, started walking down a river, trip, fall in, get swarmed by Zombies. I eventually get away and found my own little town. The Group ends up making it there, asks for refuge, and I throw them in the dungeon.
I hate to say it lads......but I think Im starting to slowly dislike this show. The long dragged out farm thing had worn on me, and even these "action" episodes dont seem to really take me anywhere.......please tell me Im just tired.
This show couldn't get any further from the source material but at least there's some action now. I've liked these last 3 a lot more than the 6 previous.
I've never really had a problem with Andrea until this one.
KingCracker wrote:I hate to say it lads......but I think Im starting to slowly dislike this show. The long dragged out farm thing had worn on me, and even these "action" episodes dont seem to really take me anywhere.......please tell me Im just tired.
From the rumors about next season I have been hearing, we should be well away from the farm and on to some good stuff. I have liked the last few episodes though, it got a lot better since the mid season break. Plus, Rick is starting to man up.
My gf keeps making jokes about how "in this episode rick will die, or shane or the kid" .....my reply is all ways "good, at least there would be something happening."
Yea, Im thinking my view has been soured from the fething farm. Seriously, the farm dragged on for WAY! TO! LONG! And it is nice to see Rick starting to think with his fething head and not his heart. I think if this were real, Id be in the middle of Shane and Ricks logic. I wouldnt just go around blowing people away, but I certainly wouldnt sit on it, drinking some tea and hope the right idea comes along. That kid they are lugging around? Yea, Id a shot him when he was stuck to the fence, and moved on. Showed him courtesy, and hope that I get the same when my time comes.
KingCracker wrote: That kid they are lugging around? Yea, Id a shot him when he was stuck to the fence, and moved on. Showed him courtesy, and hope that I get the same when my time comes.
This. I don't understand the logic behind saving him, and they made it seem like the zombies were really closing in. The best thing to do would be do the kid a favor and plug him, then take off.
The fight between Rick and Shane was good I guess, but seemed very contrived. Which sums up these last three episodes nicely I think. Contrived. Darryl all of a sudden turning into a baby. Lori wrecking her car. Shane trying to brain Rick with a wrench and "hey! thar be zombies behind that glass!" Better than the first 6, but the plot development still sucks.
KingCracker wrote:Yea, Im thinking my view has been soured from the fething farm. Seriously, the farm dragged on for WAY! TO! LONG! And it is nice to see Rick starting to think with his fething head and not his heart. I think if this were real, Id be in the middle of Shane and Ricks logic. I wouldnt just go around blowing people away, but I certainly wouldnt sit on it, drinking some tea and hope the right idea comes along. That kid they are lugging around? Yea, Id a shot him when he was stuck to the fence, and moved on. Showed him courtesy, and hope that I get the same when my time comes.
I agree. I would have left him or if I was feeling merciful shoot him in the head.
The only time I would consider leaving someone for zombies, would be if it were me and him/her, and the ONLY way out, would be to put one in their gut and go for the get away. I certainly wouldnt feel good about it. But in a similar situation like they were in, I would of shot the kid.
KingCracker wrote: That kid they are lugging around? Yea, Id a shot him when he was stuck to the fence, and moved on. Showed him courtesy, and hope that I get the same when my time comes.
This. I don't understand the logic behind saving him, and they made it seem like the zombies were really closing in. The best thing to do would be do the kid a favor and plug him, then take off.
The fight between Rick and Shane was good I guess, but seemed very contrived. Which sums up these last three episodes nicely I think. Contrived. Darryl all of a sudden turning into a baby. Lori wrecking her car. Shane trying to brain Rick with a wrench and "hey! thar be zombies behind that glass!" Better than the first 6, but the plot development still sucks.
I wouldn't have plugged him. Leave him to get walker attention whilst I bail. If your comrades had just tried to ambush me, you bet you keister is being left behind.
ifStatement wrote:I can't really see how you could kill an innocent kid like that, whatever the circumstances.
Innocent kid just tried to kill you. Really?
Also, anybody else think that kid is going to be a huge liability if they do not kill him? He seems very dumb and a little over the top about everything.
Ok, innocent wa maybe the wrong word but it was understandable what he was doing. He was going with the group just as Rick's group were doing by returning fire.
What I mean is. in this episode he clearly presents no threat to the group. I find the idea that he would side with a bunch of guys who basically left him for dead over rick's group who saved him a bit stupid. So by killing him you're taking the life of someone who doesn't deserve it needlessly.
He's an extra man to add to the group. With more balls than glenn.
I don't disagree. Go back a few pages and you'll find that I think most of the group is at best dead weight. However, shooting those two doesn't preclude shooting the dude that was shooting at you previously as well.
"Everyone else was doing it!" is not an excuse when bullets are flying. That would be a line that you do not easily step back from, and might just get you killed for crossing in the first place. As much as I dislike Shane, I am with him on this one. For the same reasons as I would have him thrown to the zombies.
Honestly, freeze or not, Glenn and his little shotgun isn't going to do a whole lot against a guy with what appeared to be a rifle across the block. Be a good way to get himself killed trying though.
Unlike every other characters major screwup HIS has managed to not get himself or anyone else hurt or killed, or even lost the group anything particularly valuable like...oh...a horse or vehicle.
It doesn't have to be one or the other. Glenn still has a use in his ferret like resource run skills. But outside of Rick, Shane and Daryl another zombie fighter wouldn't be a bad idea IMO.
SOFDC wrote:Honestly, freeze or not, Glenn and his little shotgun isn't going to do a whole lot against a guy with what appeared to be a rifle across the block. Be a good way to get himself killed trying though.
Unlike every other characters major screwup HIS has managed to not get himself or anyone else hurt or killed, or even lost the group anything particularly valuable like...oh...a horse or vehicle.
Another zombie fighter? The dudes resume is as follows:
I tried to kill you.
I failed.
I also absorbed some of your medical supplies.
I will quite likely also cause YET MORE womandrama when I join with your group, even if I am in fact telling the truth about having no active interest in stabbing you in the back (Or face.)
Not only are you dangerous, but incompetent. Application denied, receive bullet or distribution to zombies immediately. Next applicant?
SOFDC wrote:Another zombie fighter? The dudes resume is as follows:
I tried to kill you.
I failed.
I also absorbed some of your medical supplies.
I will quite likely also cause YET MORE womandrama when I join with your group, even if I am in fact telling the truth about having no active interest in stabbing you in the back (Or face.)
Application denied, receive bullet or distribution to zombies immediately. Next applicant?
I don't think his resume would leave out the part where he managed to stay calm while tied by his hands and feet as a walker approached him, enough to cut himself free and then kill said walker. Other members of the group would have failed in the same situation.
SOFDC wrote:This particular group of <CENSORED>s needs less problems a whole lot more than it needs EITHER another body or more testosterone.
Most of that could be solved by shooting shane and andrea. Seems like a better idea to me.
NO. THEY ARE THE ONLY PEOPLE WITH BRAINS IN THEIR HEADS. Seriously Rick is an idiot. I know he's the protagonist and all, but so far he's led them into trap after trap. If I were Daryl/Shane/Andrea I'd be "feth this guy. He's done nothing but almost kill us all with his dogooderism."
RIck you are...THE WEAKEST LINK!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ifStatement wrote:
KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Squidmanlolz wrote:
ifStatement wrote:
He's an extra man to add to the group. With more balls than glenn.
What do you have against Glenn? He's easily among the most level headed, dependable, and survivable of the group.
I know. He's got more balls than Glenn cuz he fell of a roof and got impaled on a fence?
No because he took part in the shootout instead of freezing.
...and I have nothing against glenn. He is a likeable character. But he's clearly not the best guy in a tense situation.
Except he's saved Rick, and volunteered for every hazardous/stupid idea so far. he's not smart but he's a survivor and a team player. In terms of survivability I'd pick (in order):
Daryl
Glenn
Shane
Automatically Appended Next Post: OK I didn't see Sunday's episode yet so this may have changed but:
Spoiler:
Could he be a lead in to the jail sequence or who was it, the governor?
At least Glenn wouldn't fall off a roof and impale himself on a fence. Glenn was thrown down a well and somehow all that happened was he lassoed the world's fattest zombie.
SOFDC wrote:This particular group of <CENSORED>s needs less problems a whole lot more than it needs EITHER another body or more testosterone.
Most of that could be solved by shooting shane and andrea. Seems like a better idea to me.
NO. THEY ARE THE ONLY PEOPLE WITH BRAINS IN THEIR HEADS. Seriously Rick is an idiot. I know he's the protagonist and all, but so far he's led them into trap after trap. If I were Daryl/Shane/Andrea I'd be "feth this guy. He's done nothing but almost kill us all with his dogooderism."
RIck you are...THE WEAKEST LINK!
What all is Rick doing in the show? Because he is one of the best in the books.
SOFDC wrote:This particular group of <CENSORED>s needs less problems a whole lot more than it needs EITHER another body or more testosterone.
Most of that could be solved by shooting shane and andrea. Seems like a better idea to me.
NO. THEY ARE THE ONLY PEOPLE WITH BRAINS IN THEIR HEADS. Seriously Rick is an idiot. I know he's the protagonist and all, but so far he's led them into trap after trap. If I were Daryl/Shane/Andrea I'd be "feth this guy. He's done nothing but almost kill us all with his dogooderism."
RIck you are...THE WEAKEST LINK!
What all is Rick doing in the show? Because he is one of the best in the books.
Unfortunately, and it hurts me to say this: Frazzled is almost right. The show is not as well written. I believe they intend for Rick to be cool and shane to be crazy but mostly Rick seems like an idiot a lot of the time.
Could he be a lead in to the jail sequence or who was it, the governor?
Spoiler:
I read recently that they have found an actor to play the governor, so I believe this could be possible.
Spoiler:
This was my first thought, too. I'm skeptical how they'll pull it off, though. They will have to tame it from the books. Have to. Even if they do tame it, though, it will lead to some changes in the show, which is good.
ifStatement wrote:I can't really see how you could kill an innocent kid like that, whatever the circumstances.
Innocent kid? Did you forget the part where the "innocent kid" was firing on them before he get himself stuck to a fence?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Deathshead420 wrote:Cracker remind me never to go on a medical supply run with you lol.
Just make sure I like you in person. Then again, even in that moment, Id rather be alive and have to remember shooting you, then being torn apart knowing youll be banging my wife. So yea, dont go on supply runs with me
The the hell? Actually thought this was going to be a pretty good episode but the ending just came out of no where. They've gone so far from the comic now I don't think I even want to watch it anymore.
I think of all the people to off, Dale was on the list of not to kill off. He literally was the only (although annoying at times) voice of reason in the group. What the hell? I figured Shane would be meeting his end here
KingCracker wrote:I never read the comic, so Im not biased there.
Spoiler:
I think of all the people to off, Dale was on the list of not to kill off. He literally was the only (although annoying at times) voice of reason in the group. What the hell? I figured Shane would be meeting his end here
Spoiler:
I honestly thought that T-dog would die first(since he's done nothing for pretty much the entire season), but I was hoping to get rid of Andrea already. I hate her so much.
I'm pretty sure Carl's sick in the head and stupid.
Spoiler:
Sure, it's perfectly normal to follow an execution party and tell your dad to blow someone's brains out. Yeah, let's steal a gun(again!) and walk out into the woods alone to play with walkers.
Carls not "normal" nanymore - but then thats likely going to help him survive
Good to see Andrea calling Lori out......in some ways I'd rather watch the Shane, Daryl and Andrea show - they could bring Glen and Maggie as well............
Having watched the last two episodes... not sure if I'll be watching more.
The kid is too much for me... just like the irritating little girl in Earth2. All he's going to do is get more people killed.
The mid-season thing should've been Shane dying. He really shouldn't be alive at this point and is only serving to be an irritant. Also Carl should've been eaten by that zombie. Just eaten him right up
KingCracker wrote:I never read the comic, so Im not biased there.
Spoiler:
I think of all the people to off, Dale was on the list of not to kill off. He literally was the only (although annoying at times) voice of reason in the group. What the hell? I figured Shane would be meeting his end here
That's the thing. This show has gone off the rails for me. This has become the anti-comic. Literally, all the most popular characters in the book are the least popular on the show because they don't know what the hell they're doing.
In the book, Andrea is ten years younger, cool, and Dale's banging her. That's not the most polite way to put it but actually it was quite touching. Dale always felt that Andrea only hooked up with him because it was a crazy zombie apocalypse. He never felt he was good enough for her because he was old enough to be her grandpa. But the thing was Andrea really did love him and of all of them the relationships theirs was the most dedicated.
So I've got that whole thing to not look forward too now.
In the comic Andrea is cool. This will blow TV people's mind but Andrea is one of the most dangerous people left on the planet. She can put a bullet through the eye of a needle with a rifle. In the show she's just some dumb
In the comic Rick is a good leader. In the show he's a zombie-wrangling, indecisive hypocrite.
Also, the idea the group would keep a kid prisnor, then torture him ,mainly beacause he had the gall to shot at them after they'd murdered two of their gang: madness. And I can't believe I'm going to say this but they didn't even let that T-Dawg guy talk during the meeting. Holy, token black guy.
I can't believe how many "characters" are never even on camera, they always refer to people that haven't been in an episode more than like once and poor t-dog doesn't even get like a line of dialogue per episode, just seems weird.
Tyreese is a BAD-ASS how could you NOT put him in the Show?!? Who else is going to beat the gak out of Rick? Who else is going to charge into a gym full of Zombies with nothing but a Wrench and ask the Zombies "Would You Kindly leave?" Gah, I have NO interest in the show anymore....
Also, Carl is also an amazing character in the comics.
Spoiler:
He killed Shane, he's defended his father from a horde of Zombies by himself, AND he's taken more bullets than anyone else in the group.
KingCracker wrote:I never read the comic, so Im not biased there.
Spoiler:
I think of all the people to off, Dale was on the list of not to kill off. He literally was the only (although annoying at times) voice of reason in the group. What the hell? I figured Shane would be meeting his end here
That's the thing. This show has gone off the rails for me. This has become the anti-comic. Literally, all the most popular characters in the book are the least popular on the show because they don't know what the hell they're doing.
In the book, Andrea is ten years younger, cool, and Dale's banging her. That's not the most polite way to put it but actually it was quite touching. Dale always felt that Andrea only hooked up with him because it was a crazy zombie apocalypse. He never felt he was good enough for her because he was old enough to be her grandpa. But the thing was Andrea really did love him and of all of them the relationships theirs was the most dedicated.
So I've got that whole thing to not look forward too now.
In the comic Andrea is cool. This will blow TV people's mind but Andrea is one of the most dangerous people left on the planet. She can put a bullet through the eye of a needle with a rifle. In the show she's just some dumb
In the comic Rick is a good leader. In the show he's a zombie-wrangling, indecisive hypocrite.
Also, the idea the group would keep a kid prisnor, then torture him ,mainly beacause he had the gall to shot at them after they'd murdered two of their gang: madness. And I can't believe I'm going to say this but they didn't even let that T-Dawg guy talk during the meeting. Holy, token black guy.
ARGHH! Sorry, I have to let my nerd-rage subside.
Ricks getting better but yeah pretty much everything else is right - I think they are trying to send Andrea towards where she ends up in the comic
Yikes, the comic sounds COMPLETELY different then the show. I mean the names are the same, and they have zombies in both, but from the sounds of it, you could call them coincidences at best
Yea, I dont care for Andrea much, I think Rick is a pathetic leader, Dale WAS annoying at times, but completely needed for the group. Cheese and crackers
KingCracker wrote:Yikes, the comic sounds COMPLETELY different then the show. I mean the names are the same, and they have zombies in both, but from the sounds of it, you could call them coincidences at best
Yea, I dont care for Andrea much, I think Rick is a pathetic leader, Dale WAS annoying at times, but completely needed for the group. Cheese and crackers
It is very different. Andrea is actually a great character in the comic, Dale was never really annoying nor was he a super moral goody good.
The show is going downhill for me. I want to like it and I desperately want it to get better. But this season is killing me.
I'm pretty sure Carl's sick in the head and stupid.
Spoiler:
Sure, it's perfectly normal to follow an execution party and tell your dad to blow someone's brains out. Yeah, let's steal a gun(again!) and walk out into the woods alone to play with walkers.
Absolutely loved season 1, it was so good and solid throughout, good characters, pacing, plot, production, settings etc.
Thought the season finale Ts-19 was amazing.
Frist half of S2 I didnt enjoy as much and while it is based on the comic and they have to follow the plot to a degree I thought it was parochial and very "down on the farm" (literally),
Having said that "Pretty much dead already"s ending was un fething real television.
I dont know much about AMC being across the water but I assume its a cable channel? Brilliant as it was
Spoiler:
shooting the kid in the head was a reall moment (yeah yeah I know she was still a zombie),
I cant wait to see if our terrestrials try and pick up the show and broadcast it
Last 3 episodes its definelty picked up though, I still feel they need to get away from the farm soon however and bring in a more widespread view of things, even if its snippets here and there. The CDC angle I liked, perhaps something similar with a conspiracy piece or something.
Spoiler:
Dales death this week was done excellently I felt, very heartfelt as he raises his head begging to end it all, he was a moany old goat but I actually liked him, he gave the group a nice dynamic angle, rather than goody Rick and nasty Shane with the rest falling in between.
Fav characters are defo Shane and Daryl (surprising since they are sort of the typical alpha male, brooders which usually turns me right off TV).
Havent read the comic but very interesting to read Kanucks views on the seperation between the show and it.
Deathshead420 wrote:I agree last nights episode was good. Pretty much every thing is Lauries fault again imo.
Spoiler:
So is it airborn now? Or Did Shane rise because he cut his hand last week with the same knife that he used to kill one of the cop walkers?
I don't think it's all Lauries fault. Shane was devolving long before that talk. I mean he already was ready to kill Rick the last time they were alone.
Spoiler:
Regarding the disease in the comics it's always been airborne. Basically it's not the bite that makes a zombie. The bite gives you a nasty infection that kills you. The disease (different than the bite) then reanimates the body. At least that's how I interpret it. And remember that Randall got back up without a bite and those two guards at the prison that were dead zombies didn't have a bite either
Oh its definitely airborne now. Shane killed that kid by breaking his neck, and he came back. That had all kinds of confusion on Darrel and Glens faces when Darrel said "Naw man, theres no bites or scratches on him anywhere.....thats what killed him" And pointed to the kids broken neck.
Agreed, FINALLY this show is going places. Dear lord I was getting annoyed
I think Shane rose because of the knife wound on his hand being infected. I'm kind of upset that they didn't keep Shane's death true to the graphic novel, that page is my favorite from the first two books. I'm also upset that the season is ending so early, it seems like the first half of the season was a lull, then the break, now it was a few weeks of really good episodes for sweeps...
No, Shane rose because everyone has the disease now. Zombies don't actually carry the virus. They carry a different disease that causes you to die. Then the other disease reanimates you.
@Kingcracker
Yeah, it's finally starting to move. I think they realize just how close they came to hurting the show long term with the first half of the season. At least I hope so
Uhg, speaking of that, I played L4D2 the other day, and simply HATED it. You can look down your sights when shooting?! I seriously hate that style of game play. Just drives me nuts.
Everyone is a carrier of the virus. That's what I theorized the mad scientist whispered to Rick. But Rick didn't seem to know about that either. I honestly think they forgot about that. Good job guys.
Due to my disappointment about the direction of this show I only got around to watching it now. I am further disappointed. There's no reason to not have Carl kill Shane. That's a major moment in Carl's life. I just don't get it.
I've never read the comics but i love the show. Carl defiantly has something wrong with him but why Shane of all people?
He's my fave character. Now im waiting for season 3 haha
KingCracker wrote:I never read the comic, so Im not biased there.
Spoiler:
I think of all the people to off, Dale was on the list of not to kill off. He literally was the only (although annoying at times) voice of reason in the group. What the hell? I figured Shane would be meeting his end here
That's the thing. This show has gone off the rails for me. This has become the anti-comic. Literally, all the most popular characters in the book are the least popular on the show because they don't know what the hell they're doing.
In the book, Andrea is ten years younger, cool, and Dale's banging her. That's not the most polite way to put it but actually it was quite touching. Dale always felt that Andrea only hooked up with him because it was a crazy zombie apocalypse. He never felt he was good enough for her because he was old enough to be her grandpa. But the thing was Andrea really did love him and of all of them the relationships theirs was the most dedicated.
So I've got that whole thing to not look forward too now.
In the comic Andrea is cool. This will blow TV people's mind but Andrea is one of the most dangerous people left on the planet. She can put a bullet through the eye of a needle with a rifle. In the show she's just some dumb
In the comic Rick is a good leader. In the show he's a zombie-wrangling, indecisive hypocrite.
Also, the idea the group would keep a kid prisnor, then torture him ,mainly beacause he had the gall to shot at them after they'd murdered two of their gang: madness. And I can't believe I'm going to say this but they didn't even let that T-Dawg guy talk during the meeting. Holy, token black guy.
ARGHH! Sorry, I have to let my nerd-rage subside.
You're starting to sound like the whiny LOTR fan who was upset they left out Tom Bombadil. The show was never advertised as direct screenplay write up from the comic.
Back on topic. I still think there is a possibility that something happened to shane and randall which we didnt see. Like what was happening in all those flashes of zombies while Shane was dieing?
ifStatement wrote:
I still think there is a possibility that something happened to shane and randall which we didnt see. Like what was happening in all those flashes of zombies while Shane was dieing?
I kind of took that to represent the "turning" into a zombie.
KingCracker wrote:I never read the comic, so Im not biased there.
Spoiler:
I think of all the people to off, Dale was on the list of not to kill off. He literally was the only (although annoying at times) voice of reason in the group. What the hell? I figured Shane would be meeting his end here
That's the thing. This show has gone off the rails for me. This has become the anti-comic. Literally, all the most popular characters in the book are the least popular on the show because they don't know what the hell they're doing.
In the book, Andrea is ten years younger, cool, and Dale's banging her. That's not the most polite way to put it but actually it was quite touching. Dale always felt that Andrea only hooked up with him because it was a crazy zombie apocalypse. He never felt he was good enough for her because he was old enough to be her grandpa. But the thing was Andrea really did love him and of all of them the relationships theirs was the most dedicated.
So I've got that whole thing to not look forward too now.
In the comic Andrea is cool. This will blow TV people's mind but Andrea is one of the most dangerous people left on the planet. She can put a bullet through the eye of a needle with a rifle. In the show she's just some dumb
In the comic Rick is a good leader. In the show he's a zombie-wrangling, indecisive hypocrite.
Also, the idea the group would keep a kid prisnor, then torture him ,mainly beacause he had the gall to shot at them after they'd murdered two of their gang: madness. And I can't believe I'm going to say this but they didn't even let that T-Dawg guy talk during the meeting. Holy, token black guy.
ARGHH! Sorry, I have to let my nerd-rage subside.
You're starting to sound like the whiny LOTR fan who was upset they left out Tom Bombadil. The show was never advertised as direct screenplay write up from the comic.
Back on topic. I still think there is a possibility that something happened to shane and randall which we didnt see. Like what was happening in all those flashes of zombies while Shane was dieing?
Go way back in the thread and you'll see I've been very fair on this matter. I've even brought up the LOTR and The Watchmen and defended their adaptations (I actually prefer the LOTR movies). I just don't don't like this adaptation.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:Go way back in the thread and you'll see I've been very fair on this matter. I've even brought up the LOTR and The Watchmen and defended their adaptations (I actually prefer the LOTR movies). I just don't don't like this adaptation.
So why do you go on about it? Clearly other people enjoy it and I'm pretty sure everyone gets that you don't because it doesn't reflect the comics so why post about it after every episode?
The theme music is great as it is but when they played it for that end scene and put the drums over it, I literally sat bolt upright in bed.
Is it definitive that its airborn, Im kinda siding with knife theory, otherwise its ultimately a fruitless battle they are fighting, which whilst ultra dark and different for a TV show does sort of remove that sense of hope which most humans like to have in the background?
It's definitely airborne. The title of the show/comics is a double meaning. One meaning is obviously based on the zombies. The other is the fact that everyone still alive is just the walking dead since they are all infected.
Plus how can you still support the knife thing when Randal wasn't cut or bit?
I think the idea is that when you are alive you are a carrier of the disease but it only becomes active once you are dead. Like somehow your immune system can deal with it while your still alive but when you die it's able to take over your brain in the way described at the end of the first season.
I'm pretty sure the angle is that the disease only works on dead tissue. So the idea is that once the body dies the disease then proceeds feed of the dead tissue and reanimates the corpse.
Remember that the disease that causes them to rise is different from the virus of the zombie bite that kills them.
It's a pretty novel idea too. One of the things that set the Kirkman's walking dead apart from Romero. I'm not even sure they have fully figured it out in the comics yet which are much further along.
In a way, it kinda blends the early Romero "dead rising from graves" zombies and the bite-spread disease zombies seen in more recent genre works.
Regarding the title of the show/comic, I think it also suggests that there's not a lot of difference between the living and the zombies when the living spend their time wandering, killing and consuming in an amoral fashion...
Spoiler:
So regarding Shane, do you guys agree that the whole thing was essentially a suicide attempt? His plan -- as Rick noted -- was both terrible and obvious, and there was clearly no way the group would trust or follow him. Most of his dialogue seemed more about egging Rick on than anything else. I kinda felt like Shane realized he was just a (violent) shell of the person he was -- and there was no going back given the things he'd done -- and yet didn't have the courage to off himself. It was fitting that he zombified in the end, because he was already the "walking dead" as I described above.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:Go way back in the thread and you'll see I've been very fair on this matter. I've even brought up the LOTR and The Watchmen and defended their adaptations (I actually prefer the LOTR movies). I just don't don't like this adaptation.
So why do you go on about it? Clearly other people enjoy it and I'm pretty sure everyone gets that you don't because it doesn't reflect the comics so why post about it after every episode?
I've only not liked the last two episodes. I'm free to voice my opinion even if it offends your delicate sensibilites.
Really? I've vastly preferred the last two episodes. It's not like the writing in the comics makes sense when you really analyze it but I finally feel like the show is moving.
Oh and regarding Carl and the pivotal moment in his life I think it was better represented by the show. In the comic he is younger and only really understands he's defending his dad. In the show it's a completely different situation and wouldn't have played well or made sense.
Hulksmash wrote:Really? I've vastly preferred the last two episodes. It's not like the writing in the comics makes sense when you really analyze it but I finally feel like the show is moving.
Oh and regarding Carl and the pivotal moment in his life I think it was better represented by the show. In the comic he is younger and only really understands he's defending his dad. In the show it's a completely different situation and wouldn't have played well or made sense.
How so? His exact words iirc are "It's not like shooting the dead ones Dad" to which Rick replies "It's not supposed to be." In the show they make a big deal about killing Zombies. Like we're supposed to feel bad the Zombies in the barn were killed. They're zombies: whatever. Then they make the group think killing some kid is ok. That's a person. Who cares if Carl shoots Zombie Shane? He's already dead.
Hulksmash wrote:Really? I've vastly preferred the last two episodes. It's not like the writing in the comics makes sense when you really analyze it but I finally feel like the show is moving.
Oh and regarding Carl and the pivotal moment in his life I think it was better represented by the show. In the comic he is younger and only really understands he's defending his dad. In the show it's a completely different situation and wouldn't have played well or made sense.
How so? His exact words iirc are "It's not like shooting the dead ones Dad" to which Rick replies "It's not supposed to be." In the show they make a big deal about killing Zombies. Like we're supposed to feel bad the Zombies in the barn were killed. They're zombies: whatever. Then they make the group think killing some kid is ok. That's a person. Who cares if Carl shoots Zombie Shane? He's already dead.
The difference is that Carl hadn't been responsible for the death of someone already in the comics. He's already considers himself responsible for the death of Dale. While he didn't pull the trigger he still feels responsible. He also didn't see his dad nearly kill a human and turn away, showing it was wrong in comic. There are a ton of subtle and not so subtle differences between the comic and show, as it should be, but it gets to the same point.
And the people in the group didn't make a big deal out of shooting the zombies in the barn. Just like in the comic the only people against it were Herchel and his family. Killing zombies has never been a big deal for either of his two father figures, Shane and Rick.
Actually it makes more sense for Carl to kill Shane in the show than the comic. They did all this foreshadowing it seemed. How Carl's inaction is responsible for Dale's death, Shane teaching Carl to shoot, Shane wanting Carl to keep the gun, Shane sticking around for Lori and Carl. It seemed like they were really building it up. I actually wonder if the network interfered because they thought kids killing may be to too controversial.
You do realize that those are all reasons he might not pull the trigger right? I mean outside of the idea of foreshadowing so it "surprises" people those would all seem like reasons a person wouldn't shoot someone.
Especially a child and especially since it was dark and it would have been hard to see which person was which. It's a dark night on a farm with little light outside of stars which makes it pretty darn dark. I know I'd hesitate to shoot if I might hit my dad.
Got it, so you're just upset it didn't happen just like the book even though the set-up and story have changed significantly. It doesn't matter if what happened in the show makes sense form the perspective of that story, you're mad because it doesn't happen like in the other story that we haven't been following since pretty much episode 2-3 of season 1.
Hulksmash wrote:Got it, so you're just upset it didn't happen just like the book even though the set-up and story have changed significantly. It doesn't matter if what happened in the show makes sense form the perspective of that story, you're mad because it doesn't happen like in the other story that we haven't been following since pretty much episode 2-3 of season 1.
As I said, it makes more sense in the TV show. A little irony goes a long way. I'm not mad, just disapointed. The moment where Carl kills Shane is really the only thing I want from the show. They can change everything else as far as I'm concerned. Go ahead and kill Rick at this point. Just think the one scene was a seminal moment in the story that they changed for no particular reason.
Getting upset that the show doesnt mesh perfectly with the comic, is like getting upset that the StarWars movies are as different as they are from their fan fics.
And yes, finally fething moving, this show is picking up steam again. I hate to say it, but Im thinking Im glad they canned Frank Darabont, the guy was writing this show into a corner that I wasnt enjoying at all
KingCracker wrote:Getting upset that the show doesnt mesh perfectly with the comic, is like getting upset that the StarWars movies are as different as they are from their fan fics.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:
The moment where Carl kills Shane is really the only thing I want from the show. They can change everything else as far as I'm concerned. Go ahead and kill Rick at this point. Just think the one scene was a seminal moment in the story that they changed for no particular reason.
That's the thing. This show has gone off the rails for me. This has become the anti-comic.
So weird, its creepy inddit?
Yes those are thematic changes I didn't care for. Event-wise everything is different anyway since episode one. I just think this last change also has a big change to the theme too. I don't care what happens as long as it still feels like the walking dead.
Writer A: We need X to wonder off alone so he can get attacked. Just have him go off by himself far from everyone.
Writer B: Ok. What reason are we going to come up with to get him out there? X hasn't been shown to be so stupid as to wonder off alone in the dark.
Writer A: Eh, no one will notice, just write it.
Thats pretty much the truth of it all
Writer A: Ok how will we get X to run into a giant mass of zombies?
Writer B: Hmmm, thats tricky....he is a clever one
Writer A: yea he is.....
Writer C: OH! Lets have a helicopter fly over head, this way X gets distracted chasing it down, and doesnt see or hear the ocean of zombies!
Writer A: Oh I like that!
Writer B: I dunno.....how could X chase down a helicopter?
Janitor : He could attempt it on a horse
Writers ABC: YES!
So who's the person in the hood with the arm-less zombies chained up behind them?
Also: End of the episode nice to see Rick swing his dick and smack everybody in their mouth. Awesome.
Really glad that Andrea isn't dead also. I thought it was really cool how they showed the prison at the end of the episode.
Rick hasn't completely convinced me that he's not a total pussy, but this was definitely a huge step in the right direction.
I like the last three a lot, I hope they continue going like this in season 3. Sucks my sunday shows are done, no walking dead no doctor who, and no topgear. Come on game of thrones and metalocalypse.
ifStatement wrote:Heh, yeh chasing a helicopter on a horse was pretty dumb now I think about it.
Was there an episode that I missed? Since the only person riding a horse was Rick in season 1 and he wasn't chasing a helicopter but headed into the city looking for his family. And nobody in this episode even saw the helicopter. Oh, and Darryle when he was looking for Sophia that one episode.
On that note:
Spoiler:
Holy crap! That episode was amazing. We lost some extras or single liners but kept a few around to die later. The overrunning of the farm was awesome and I love the fact that if not for the gun shots the herd would have simply moved past the farm.
And finally Rick is becoming the character in the comics! I expected his big speech at the end of the episode to include "We are the Walking Dead!" line but maybe they are saving it. I like that Darryl asked whiney Carol what she wanted to shut her up. I think Darryl is falling into the role of Tyrese from the comics which I'm ok with. Rick's right hand but with potential for explosions.
Michone showing up was awesome! Seeing the prison in the background was great! Overall this is a way to cap a season. Not to hardcore on the cliffhanger (i.e. the only real "cliffhanger" is will Andrea meet back up). I can't wait for season 3. Especially since it's got an extended order for like 17 episodes!
Spoiler sidenote: Anyone watch the talking dead afterward? I thought it as funny that Herschel was suppose to be dead already when he lives quite a while in the comics but that they just couldn't find a good way to do it
Non-spoiler Sidenote:
Anyone else annoyed that they are trying to use the Walking Dead's popularity to boost the show that stole a significant portion of the Walking Deads budget (probably responsible for the slow start to the season)? I know my wife and I rolled our eyes a bit.
Anyone else annoyed that they are trying to use the Walking Dead's popularity to boost the show that stole a significant portion of the Walking Deads budget (probably responsible for the slow start to the season)? I know my wife and I rolled our eyes a bit.
Yes. Mad Men: it's exactly like The Walking Dead. EXACTLY!
ifStatement wrote:Was there an episode that I missed? Since the only person riding a horse was Rick in season 1 and he wasn't chasing a helicopter but headed into the city looking for his family. And nobody in this episode even saw the helicopter. Oh, and Darryle when he was looking for Sophia that one episode.
I may be remembering wrong but I'm pretty sure Rick sees a helicopter while riding his horse through Atlanta and starts following it before he happens upon the huge horde of zombies near the tank.
ifStatement wrote:Was there an episode that I missed? Since the only person riding a horse was Rick in season 1 and he wasn't chasing a helicopter but headed into the city looking for his family. And nobody in this episode even saw the helicopter. Oh, and Darryle when he was looking for Sophia that one episode.
I may be remembering wrong but I'm pretty sure Rick sees a helicopter while riding his horse through Atlanta and starts following it before he happens upon the huge horde of zombies near the tank.
No, you are correct. And that was my reference earlier as well
Yea the season ender, was fething great. It was an ocean of walkers, and my only real gripe was I think Hershel bought his shotgun from S-Mart, because that fether NEVER ran out of shells. I need to stop slow poking and go buy me one of them. And agreed, Rick hasnt completely sold me on him being a bad mother, but hes heading in the right direction anyways
My only problem was that Lori seem to get really mad at Rick when he told her what happened. Like, "I'm sorry I didn't let Shane kill me and killed him when he enacted his plan to kill me even though you basically told me a few episodes ago that Shane would probably try to kill me and I better kill him"
ifStatement wrote:Was there an episode that I missed? Since the only person riding a horse was Rick in season 1 and he wasn't chasing a helicopter but headed into the city looking for his family. And nobody in this episode even saw the helicopter. Oh, and Darryle when he was looking for Sophia that one episode.
I may be remembering wrong but I'm pretty sure Rick sees a helicopter while riding his horse through Atlanta and starts following it before he happens upon the huge horde of zombies near the tank.
No, you are correct. And that was my reference earlier as well
Yea the season ender, was fething great. It was an ocean of walkers, and my only real gripe was I think Hershel bought his shotgun from S-Mart, because that fether NEVER ran out of shells. I need to stop slow poking and go buy me one of them. And agreed, Rick hasnt completely sold me on him being a bad mother, but hes heading in the right direction anyways
It showed him stopping to reload once. So it did run out. One time. Other than that, I think that thing holds about 30+ Shells from the amount of times he has fired it.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:My only problem was that Lori seem to get really mad at Rick when he told her what happened. Like, "I'm sorry I didn't let Shane kill me and killed him when he enacted his plan to kill me even though you basically told me a few episodes that Shane would probably try to kill me and I better kill him"
Made me think Lori and Shane were still going at it.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:My only problem was that Lori seem to get really mad at Rick when he told her what happened. Like, "I'm sorry I didn't let Shane kill me and killed him when he enacted his plan to kill me even though you basically told me a few episodes ago that Shane would probably try to kill me and I better kill him"
Yea my brother and I thought the same thing. Kind of a WTF is your problem? moment there.
Dreadwinter wrote:
KingCracker wrote:
ifStatement wrote:
ifStatement wrote:Was there an episode that I missed? Since the only person riding a horse was Rick in season 1 and he wasn't chasing a helicopter but headed into the city looking for his family. And nobody in this episode even saw the helicopter. Oh, and Darryle when he was looking for Sophia that one episode.
I may be remembering wrong but I'm pretty sure Rick sees a helicopter while riding his horse through Atlanta and starts following it before he happens upon the huge horde of zombies near the tank.
No, you are correct. And that was my reference earlier as well
Yea the season ender, was fething great. It was an ocean of walkers, and my only real gripe was I think Hershel bought his shotgun from S-Mart, because that fether NEVER ran out of shells. I need to stop slow poking and go buy me one of them. And agreed, Rick hasnt completely sold me on him being a bad mother, but hes heading in the right direction anyways
It showed him stopping to reload once. So it did run out. One time. Other than that, I think that thing holds about 30+ Shells from the amount of times he has fired it.
Thats true, so I guess S-Mart shotguns hold 30ish rounds, thats just incredible
S-Mart shotguns hold 30ish rounds, thats just incredible
I couldn't stop thinking about how they should have won with that shotty. They do show him kinda reload at one point to be fair, but not until he shoots like 20 rounds.
I'm really looking forward to season three now, nice to see that Michonne has finally turned up, though I was a bit...perplexed by the armless zombie evening wear.
Also quite interested to see the Prison events being set up, hoping to see the Govener show in season three.
As for season two, since I missed contributing my two cents here for most of it's latter half , I'll just say that I was very impressed with the final episodes, I had been a bit concerned about the series, especialy since the first few episodes of season two had more padding than an old Bert I Gordon film,but I believe everything wrapped up nicely....for the most part.
Yeah, I was bummed that Dale died, but not surprised...same with Shane ( seeing as his TV self far outlived his comic book self), but overall ...I think the season ended well .
I still have to say that I'm not a big fan of Rick, guy still seems to be a bit of a clod IMO...in fact it wouldn't surprise me if Lori had actually hoped Shane would succeed in offing him .
FITZZ wrote: I'm really looking forward to season three now, nice to see that Michonne has finally turned up, though I was a bit...perplexed by the armless zombie evening wear.
Also quite interested to see the Prison events being set up, hoping to see the Govener show in season three.
As for season two, since I missed contributing my two cents here for most of it's latter half , I'll just say that I was very impressed with the final episodes, I had been a bit concerned about the series, especialy since the first few episodes of season two had more padding than an old Bert I Gordon film,but I believe everything wrapped up nicely....for the most part.
Yeah, I was bummed that Dale died, but not surprised...same with Shane ( seeing as his TV self far outlived his comic book self), but overall ...I think the season ended well .
I still have to say that I'm not a big fan of Rick, guy still seems to be a bit of a clod IMO...in fact it wouldn't surprise me if Lori had actually hoped Shane would succeed in offing him .
Michonne showed up in the comics with the zombies at the gates of the prison. So it fits in well with the current events. I agree with the Rick stuff though. I am hoping Season 3 will be when he actually grows a pair and gets stuff done.
Now, how do you think they will do the prison? You think they will find inmates locked up like in the comics? All sorts of shenanigans are going to happen with that place I expect.
The Govenor has already been confirmed for season 3 which is why I wasn't hugely surprised by Michone showing up as she's a big part of that story arc.
It took awhile, I can agree with that, but they hit a point in that show where suddenly all the "bland" just turned into a big part of WTF is really going on here
KingCracker wrote:Yea, pretty stoaked for Season 3 as well, specially since the show got its gak together.
But I can say I wont be bored while waiting for it, because now the Killing is coming back, the wife and I fething LOVED the first season of that one.
Oh, if that's the case, your going to love....
DA GOVENAR!
/Ahnold voice.
Seriously? The owner of that jail (the governor) is going to be played by Arnold Schwartzneggar? Playing himself as an actual character?!
Loved the ending of the series! Thankfully it is not such a long wait this time for the new one to come (and we have Game of Thrones coming in a couple of weeks in the meantime! )
Hey I just started watching this on netflix. Watched the entire first 6 episodes in a few days. Pretty awesome. I have avoided the spoilers until I get to watch the rest.
KingCracker wrote:Whens the new season start then?
New season starts in the fall. Luckily we still have the comics to keep us company up until then, I'm really interested in where this new story arc of "a bigger world" is gonna go.
I'm just gonna put a spoiler tag around everything that I think will happen in season 3 because some of it has to do with the comics
Spoiler:
1st off, I wouldn't be surprised if The Governor was running the prison, given the way the last season progressed
Merle is definitely working with the governor, no doubt about it. The walking dead producers all but confirmed that Merle was coming back. I'm looking forward to this!
Rick probably won't get his hand cut off due to the extra CGI that they will then on need for -every- episode. I recall Kirkman saying that he regretted doing that to Rick.
However, I wouldn't be surprised if they still went through with it. Merle- "you took my hand, now I'm gonna take yours".
It's not a Goaltending position dude. Ditto with suddenly wanting to keep looking for Sophia just cuz Carl does.
).
moment (yeah yeah I know she was still a zombie),