It seems the internet needs some reason to complain about every codex. Sure sometimes it's valid, but sometimes it's just pointless whining and that drags the valid stuff down. :/

 Brometheus wrote:
Hahahaha WOW, you have to buy a box of Possessed if you want to use the Blood Host.

GW got us again

Like hell I do, I refuse to buy those gawd-awful models....now those End Times minis (Skullreapers, or some such) that just came out, those would look great on round bases

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:
Hahahaha WOW, you have to buy a box of Possessed if you want to use the Blood Host.

GW got us again

Like hell I do, I refuse to buy those gawd-awful models....now those End Times minis (Skullreapers, or some such) that just came out, those would look great on round bases

Possessed make great conversion kits though!

So if I'm reading the rumors right, the daemon units don't have access to rewards or any upgrades? That's a real shame. Also, are Bloodletters now 5 models for the starting unit size instead of 10? What is the max unit size?

I've been away from 40k for a while it seems, can someone explain me how the decurion attachment works, with my google-fu I only managed to find that is a formation with little formations within, is this correct?, Meaning that from the previous rumours you need to take the Slaughtercult core and forcefully one of the optional detachments, am I correct? Also, does it prevents you from fielding a CAD if you manage to fit with the core and 1 optional auxiliary attachment?

It's a formation of formations.

You're not prevented from taking a CAD or any other detachment.

 Lord Blackscale wrote:
I am a little saddend by the lak of MoK on termies. Is anyone else missing it?

MoK termies? they are in.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
It's a formation of formations.

You're not prevented from taking a CAD or any other detachment.

Great, thanks. I'm trying to figure out if with my current models I've been able to use this codex without spending much more money on it. So wanted to know exactly how it worked.

Deadawake1347 wrote:

 GiraffeX wrote:
Kharn all ready has a dataslate the Butcherhorde so not sure why people are moaning he's not in this book. It's not a World Eaters codex so why would he be in there.

No, it's not a World Eaters codex, it's a followers of Khorne codex, and who is the single most famous Khorne worshiping space marine? KHARN.

That's like creating a Nurgle book without Typhus, but having plague marines in there, or if the Black Legion supplement barred you from using Abadonn because reasons, or if they came out with an Ulthwe specific codex and decided that Eldrad shouldn't be in it.

Kharn is the name you think of when you think of the followers of Khorne in 40K.

Kind of like a Dark Eldar codex without Vect...

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:

Deadawake1347 wrote:

 GiraffeX wrote:
Kharn all ready has a dataslate the Butcherhorde so not sure why people are moaning he's not in this book. It's not a World Eaters codex so why would he be in there.

No, it's not a World Eaters codex, it's a followers of Khorne codex, and who is the single most famous Khorne worshiping space marine? KHARN.

That's like creating a Nurgle book without Typhus, but having plague marines in there, or if the Black Legion supplement barred you from using Abadonn because reasons, or if they came out with an Ulthwe specific codex and decided that Eldrad shouldn't be in it.

Kharn is the name you think of when you think of the followers of Khorne in 40K.

Kind of like a Dark Eldar codex without Vect...

Except that Kharn has a "current" model, whilst Vect does not.

If I were GW, I would add a bit of fluff in the next book where Kharn becomes a Daemon Prince of Khorne, and then say his exclusion from the codex was exactly as planned.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
So if I'm reading the rumors right, the daemon units don't have access to rewards or any upgrades? That's a real shame. Also, are Bloodletters now 5 models for the starting unit size instead of 10? What is the max unit size?

The guy with the codex said all of the units are the same so I imagine bloodletters can be anywhere between 10 and 20 just like chaos daemons book. a shame if you ask me, at the very least you should be able to take them in units of 8

If I didn't already have an army composed of crazy red guys in armor that like to get up close to kill stuff, I would consider this book. Perhaps if they come out with a Tzeentch Daemonkin or Slaanesh Daemonkin army book, I would look into getting one of those.

The Formations make me like it, but I don't think I'm really ready for a mono-God army. Especially not Khorne when I already have Blood Angels. However, the bike formation with Move Through Cover is almost a must have in the Red Corsair list I have planned. Very much like the Astral Claws they used to be. Some good little tools in the codex it looks like. Honestly, I'm happy with these small but much needed buffs for select units.

A look at some of the content in today's GW blog post.










Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Like hell I do, I refuse to buy those gawd-awful models....now those End Times minis (Skullreapers, or some such) that just came out, those would look great on round bases

Buy some Gal Vorbak instead? Beefier and more badass looking. Or convert your own.. Easily done.

The Herald of Khorne in that pic is clearly on a 32mm base, and from the other pics on BL's page, it seems bloodletters are still on 25mm but the CSM units are on 32mm

This picture just highlights the problems with the Chaos range.

So many differing aesthetic choices.

Baffling.

I'd scrap the Raptors, Mauler/Forgefiend and the Heldrake.

I honestly have no idea why they scrapped the amazing old Raptor design.

thraxdown wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
So if I'm reading the rumors right, the daemon units don't have access to rewards or any upgrades? That's a real shame. Also, are Bloodletters now 5 models for the starting unit size instead of 10? What is the max unit size?

The guy with the codex said all of the units are the same so I imagine bloodletters can be anywhere between 10 and 20 just like chaos daemons book. a shame if you ask me, at the very least you should be able to take them in units of 8

All troops comes in units of 8

Cultist
C:SM
Berzerkers
Bloodletters

My option about the dex is that its awsome and opens up for alot of nice options on how to field your army

Any word on what the final formations are?

 Darkness wrote:
The Herald of Khorne in that pic is clearly on a 32mm base, and from the other pics on BL's page, it seems bloodletters are still on 25mm but the CSM units are on 32mm

I bought a box of berserkers & blood letters and preordered the new box ($230 one) last weekend. The GW manager handed me a bunch of 32mm bases and said the berserkers & bloodletters now go on 32mm bases. FYI

 krazynadechukr wrote:

 Darkness wrote:
The Herald of Khorne in that pic is clearly on a 32mm base, and from the other pics on BL's page, it seems bloodletters are still on 25mm but the CSM units are on 32mm

. The GW manager handed me a bunch of 32mm bases and said the berserkers & bloodletters now go on 32mm bases. FYI

They dont have to be on 32mm bases. Its not a rule yet. So people are still free to put them on 28mm if that is what they want

Possessed have mark of khorne and daemon of khorne . Give me 5 strength 5 attacks per guy at charge. Not bad

Do 5 wounds and your Juggerlord is S10 AP2 on the charge. Too bad he'll have almost no defense.

 Warboss85 wrote:
Possessed have mark of khorne and daemon of khorne . Give me 5 strength 5 attacks per guy at charge. Not bad

They are S5 base so S6 on the charge. Only problem is you can't have the champ turn into a DP or BT


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 krazynadechukr wrote:

 Darkness wrote:
The Herald of Khorne in that pic is clearly on a 32mm base, and from the other pics on BL's page, it seems bloodletters are still on 25mm but the CSM units are on 32mm

I bought a box of berserkers & blood letters and preordered the new box ($230 one) last weekend. The GW manager handed me a bunch of 32mm bases and said the berserkers & bloodletters now go on 32mm bases. FYI

I want them on 32mm. More footprint

Good lord, even the Chaos Spawn is forced to deep strike.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
Do 5 wounds and your Juggerlord is S10 AP2 on the charge. Too bad he'll have almost no defense.

not the way I read it. +1 S for the ax, +1 S for the wound counter, x2 Strength for the wound counter. Thats 4x2+1+1=10. He doesn't need to charge for that stat line.

Too bad I1 makes it nearly useless, especially with no access to a 2+ or 3++.

Also, does anybody have any idea on points? That is really what matters.

I photoedited the leaked cellphone cam pics into something without crooked text


Other than Icon of war letting everyone within 12" re-roll failed charges, I'm not loving the new Warlord traits.

Clearly someone's been playing Dawn of War. That 8th result on the Blood Tithe chart reminds me of when you summon a Bloodthirster in-game.

With the Warlord Trait, the detachment, the sword and the basic rules, you can generate three blood tithe points for killing someone in a challenge. If you're actually getting opportunities for a challenge that's four points in that turn without factoring in any other deaths.

Stick all that on a Juggernaut Herald or other fast character, stick in a unit and go killing things you outclass.

 angelofvengeance wrote:
Clearly someone's been playing Dawn of War. That 8th result reminds me of when you summon a Bloodthirster in-game.

Or, you know, all the other non DoW fluff that has that kind of thing...

Skull Helm huh? Causes Fear and makes you a better fighter?

Interesting...

"Blood Tithe Points are generated each time the following occurs:

– A unit with Blood for the Blood God is completely destroyed, or destroys and enemy unit.

– A character with Blood for the Blood God is killed, or kills an enemy character in a challenge."

Hmmm... does this mean that technically, each unit would be worth 2 Blood Tithe points when they're destroyed? One for the unit itself, and one for the character/champion inside the unit.

Because of that silly comma, yes.

I was wondering the same thing, but you are probably going too far into rules lawyering if you think that.

 herpguy wrote:
I was wondering the same thing, but you are probably going too far into rules lawyering if you think that.

Unless it is errata'd, it is pretty clear that you get two per squad with character. It isn't rules lawyering.

 pretre wrote:

 herpguy wrote:
I was wondering the same thing, but you are probably going too far into rules lawyering if you think that.

Unless it is errata'd, it is pretty clear that you get two per squad with character. It isn't rules lawyering.

Indeed. At least now you don't get penalized for being forced to challenge with everything in your army. There's incentive now to throw an unupgraded sarge into a challenge he can't win, just to get that Blood Tithe point.

drbored wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 herpguy wrote:
I was wondering the same thing, but you are probably going too far into rules lawyering if you think that.

Unless it is errata'd, it is pretty clear that you get two per squad with character. It isn't rules lawyering.

Indeed. At least now you don't get penalized for being forced to challenge with everything in your army. There's incentive now to throw an unupgraded sarge into a challenge he can't win, just to get that Blood Tithe point.

That seems very Khorne like actually.

I'm pretty interested in this book the more I hear about it.

 krazynadechukr wrote:

 Darkness wrote:
The Herald of Khorne in that pic is clearly on a 32mm base, and from the other pics on BL's page, it seems bloodletters are still on 25mm but the CSM units are on 32mm

I bought a box of berserkers & blood letters and preordered the new box ($230 one) last weekend. The GW manager handed me a bunch of 32mm bases and said the berserkers & bloodletters now go on 32mm bases. FYI

I really hope that isn't the case, all my daemons fit more than comfortably on their 25mm's, it's bad enough that the marines will need shifting at some point in the future.

 Ignatius-Grulgor wrote:

 krazynadechukr wrote:

 Darkness wrote:
The Herald of Khorne in that pic is clearly on a 32mm base, and from the other pics on BL's page, it seems bloodletters are still on 25mm but the CSM units are on 32mm

I bought a box of berserkers & blood letters and preordered the new box ($230 one) last weekend. The GW manager handed me a bunch of 32mm bases and said the berserkers & bloodletters now go on 32mm bases. FYI

I really hope that isn't the case, all my daemons fit more than comfortably on their 25mm's, it's bad enough that the marines will need shifting at some point in the future.

Anyone who argues that I MUST re-base all my current Daemons and put them on the new 32's can go themselves...

While it's possible for my B.Letters to be very carefully & gently broken off of their 25mm's, I'd still be throwing away a small mountain of added bitz that were used to build up scenic bases for them, and then have to re-do all of with yet more bitz, (namely skulls, various spikes & parts of dead Space Puppy + GK!), for their 32mm's.
And there's no way in hell the likes of my Pink Horrors, (who will almost certainly eventually follow suit), will [b]everp/b] come off their current bases without snapping their tiny little ankles in half.

Plus there's the fact that currently, basing all my Daemon infantry on 25mm's allows me to very easily cross the same models over to Fantasy, instead of forcing me to re-buy a 2nd version of the exact same gakking army!

 pretre wrote:

 herpguy wrote:
I was wondering the same thing, but you are probably going too far into rules lawyering if you think that.

Unless it is errata'd, it is pretty clear that you get two per squad with character. It isn't rules lawyering.

What I meant was that it can be argued that with that wording you can get a point even if your character is killed outside a challenge.

I don't think there's anything to argue. It is clear that that says you do get a point when he is killed outside of a challenge. I'm not sure where the argument that you only get one in a challenge would come from.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 Ignatius-Grulgor wrote:

 krazynadechukr wrote:

 Darkness wrote:
The Herald of Khorne in that pic is clearly on a 32mm base, and from the other pics on BL's page, it seems bloodletters are still on 25mm but the CSM units are on 32mm

I bought a box of berserkers & blood letters and preordered the new box ($230 one) last weekend. The GW manager handed me a bunch of 32mm bases and said the berserkers & bloodletters now go on 32mm bases. FYI

I really hope that isn't the case, all my daemons fit more than comfortably on their 25mm's, it's bad enough that the marines will need shifting at some point in the future.

Anyone who argues that I MUST re-base all my current Daemons and put them on the new 32's can go themselves...

While it's possible for my B.Letters to be very carefully & gently broken off of their 25mm's, I'd still be throwing away a small mountain of added bitz that were used to build up scenic bases for them, and then have to re-do all of with yet more bitz, (namely skulls, various spikes & parts of dead Space Puppy + GK!), for their 32mm's.
And there's no way in hell the likes of my Pink Horrors, (who will almost certainly eventually follow suit), will [b]everp/b] come off their current bases without snapping their tiny little ankles in half.

Plus there's the fact that currently, basing all my Daemon infantry on 25mm's allows me to very easily cross the same models over to Fantasy, instead of forcing me to re-buy a 2nd version of the exact same gakking army!

You could always get these adapter rings to make it easy:


http://eccentricminiatures.com/adapterrings.html

But, there is no need to upgrade if you're happy with 25mm bases. No tournament will enforce new bases.

No-where in the rules does it say "thou shalt base x unit on such and such a size base"

What it does say is-

Pg 366(on ipad)

The rules in this book assume that the models are mounted on the base THEY ARE SUPPLIED WITH (In this case, both 28mm and 32mm). Sometimes, a player may have models in his/her collection on unusually modelled bases. Some models aren't supplied with a base at all. In these cases (which are, in all fairness, relatively few and far between), YOU SHOULD ALWAYS FEEL FREE TO MOUNT THE MODEL ON A BASE OF APPROPRIATE SIZE IF YOU WISH, using models of a similar type as guidance

So base them on 28s if you want.

 angelofvengeance wrote:
No-where in the rules does it say "thou shalt base x unit on such and such a size base"

What it does say is-

Pg 366(on ipad)

The rules in this book assume that the models are mounted on the base THEY ARE SUPPLIED WITH (In this case, both 28mm and 32mm). Sometimes, a player may have models in his/her collection on unusually modelled bases. Some models aren't supplied with a base at all. In these cases (which are, in all fairness, relatively few and far between), YOU SHOULD ALWAYS FEEL FREE TO MOUNT THE MODEL ON A BASE OF APPROPRIATE SIZE IF YOU WISH, using models of a similar type as guidance

So base them on 28s if you want.

True, you don't have to rebase stuff. But the red caps lock part you quoted has to do with models that weren't supplied with a base- a specific example being the old Khorne Lord on a Juggernaught. That model you may put on any base that is appropriate for its size (I used a 40mm). It doesn't give you permission to put whatever you want on whatever size base you want though.

Also interesting to see that a Daemon Prince that is summoned with #7 on the Blood Tithe table get wings if the model you have to summon has wings modeled on it.

It's probably usually a bad idea to take the wings, actually - you won't be assaulting until three turns after you summon him.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
It's probably usually a bad idea to take the wings, actually - you won't be assaulting until three turns after you summon him.

I just thought it was interesting- not that I would necessarily do it. There are extremely specific situations that it would help, but I recognize that if assaulting ASAP is necessary then it is more prudent to not have wings.

Essentially I was saying that I guess mine are going to be summoned with wings seeing as how I only have winged ones.

 pretre wrote:

 herpguy wrote:
I was wondering the same thing, but you are probably going too far into rules lawyering if you think that.

Unless it is errata'd, it is pretty clear that you get two per squad with character. It isn't rules lawyering.

For me, I will play it - 1 point for a squad, including a 'sergeant' & 2 if the unit had an IC attached to it. But that's just me.
Have to wait to read the unit entry? If it states 'the unit has...' then my interpretation would be 1 for the whole unit.

 bubber wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 herpguy wrote:
I was wondering the same thing, but you are probably going too far into rules lawyering if you think that.

Unless it is errata'd, it is pretty clear that you get two per squad with character. It isn't rules lawyering.

For me, I will play it - 1 point for a squad, including a 'sergeant' & 2 if the unit had an IC attached to it. But that's just me.
Have to wait to read the unit entry? If it states 'the unit has...' then my interpretation would be 1 for the whole unit.

You'll not be playing it according to what the rule says though...

 Lou_Cypher wrote:
"Blood Tithe Points are generated each time the following occurs:

– A unit with Blood for the Blood God is completely destroyed, or destroys and enemy unit.

– A character with Blood for the Blood God is killed, or kills an enemy character in a challenge."

Hmmm... does this mean that technically, each unit would be worth 2 Blood Tithe points when they're destroyed? One for the unit itself, and one for the character/champion inside the unit.

Actually, I'm studying English grammar at uni, and I can't find any reason to interpret it the other way. Even a squad leader (non independent character) would generate an extra point. I don't think that was the intention, but hey, an all assault army needs all the buffs it can get!

Actually I'm really liking this.
-Two units get into assault.
-declare challenges.
-the characters kill and are killed by there opponents. (4 blood tithe pts)
-the rest of the two units kills the enemy. (2 blood tithe pts)
-the following turn they are obviously going to be shot to pieces (2 blood tithe pts)
-Hello Bloodthirster!

Still likely more points than just paying for a BT, but you get to kill stuff with them before the BT arrives. Win!
Two ten man mark of Khorne CSM squads + free Bloodthirster = 320 points! (Providing of course you can get them into combat.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just to clarify, if an independent character was with the squad and they got shot up, you would generate 3 Blood tithe points. Whether it's the intention or not, that's the way the wording makes it work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yes, my grammar in the forums is technically full of mistakes. It's a forum not an essay!

Does this codex seem poorly thought out to anyone else?

The bloodthirsters that you summon can't do anything until the third turn because they need to start flying one turn, land the next, cant assault after they land....so at best you can assault maybe last turn of the game if you are lucky?


Whats the point of summoning a bloodthirster that you can't even use?

Angrygrot wrote:
Does this codex seem poorly thought out to anyone else?

Do you mean in general or just in comparison to the majority of what GW has done in the last two years?

Or you know just don't have it fly.

Nvm just checked the rule....They arrive by deep strike but blood points are spent at the beginning of the turn, and monsterous creatures elect swoop or glide during movement...does that mean I can spend my blood points, then elect to land during movement and only have to spend 1 turn out of assault?

If you want to start with a Bloodthirster on the ground, pay for him with points during army construction, instead of blood points mid game.

If you don't want to wait for a free Bloodthirster to land 2 turns later, spend your blood points on something else, or have him attack enemy flyers while he's up there.

After reading the book front to back a few times, I am not too happy with it. It basically runs like a mono Demon build with a few benefits over the demon book and some downsides that can be pretty big. The formations are mostly bad too. There are a lot of minor things.

For starters, the armor relic is the cost of a cultist unit and can only be used by Demon Princes.
The ax that turns you into a bloodthirster is more expensive than that one.
No dozers on landraiders
no dirge casters at all

Woot?, no Dirge casters?..., is this a joke?, you think its a melon-fething game GW?!

The only usefull piece of equipment in all this drivel, and they squatted it?!...

Skulltaker can only fight on foot :(

Darkness wrote:After reading the book front to back a few times, I am not too happy with it. It basically runs like a mono Demon build with a few benefits over the demon book and some downsides that can be pretty big. The formations are mostly bad too. There are a lot of minor things.

For starters, the armor relic is the cost of a cultist unit and can only be used by Demon Princes.
The ax that turns you into a bloodthirster is more expensive than that one.
No dozers on landraiders
no dirge casters at all

Darkness wrote:Skulltaker can only fight on foot :(

Wow, I've never gone from excited to buy a product to actual anger. It literally gets worse every time more of thw book is revealed. There's no way I'm buying this thing now. It's insulting to me as a customer that they're releasing this codex with this poor of rules. When will a summoned bloodthirster ever be useful? Why is an army already at a huge disadvantage against the majority of the game given point increases and forbidden from taking options that could actually help it work? it feels like we're being trolled. I'm pretty tempted to put my chaos army on ebay now. And now I see why they keep such a tight lid on rumors, when they release garbage like this it's best for them the player base doesn't know and buys the book based on what it potentially could be. Knowing what it actually is, I won't spend a dime on it. I really don't get this book, does GW hate money?

This is hilarious.

I'll definitely be selling my Skulltaker Edition on eBay.

Super weak.

 Darkness wrote:
After reading the book front to back a few times, I am not too happy with it. It basically runs like a mono Demon build with a few benefits over the demon book and some downsides that can be pretty big. The formations are mostly bad too. There are a lot of minor things.

For starters, the armor relic is the cost of a cultist unit and can only be used by Demon Princes.
The ax that turns you into a bloodthirster is more expensive than that one.
No dozers on landraiders
no dirge casters at all

What are the formations?

thraxdown wrote:

Darkness wrote:After reading the book front to back a few times, I am not too happy with it. It basically runs like a mono Demon build with a few benefits over the demon book and some downsides that can be pretty big. The formations are mostly bad too. There are a lot of minor things.

For starters, the armor relic is the cost of a cultist unit and can only be used by Demon Princes.
The ax that turns you into a bloodthirster is more expensive than that one.
No dozers on landraiders
no dirge casters at all

Darkness wrote:Skulltaker can only fight on foot :(

Wow, I've never gone from excited to buy a product to actual anger. It literally gets worse every time more of thw book is revealed. There's no way I'm buying this thing now. It's insulting to me as a customer that they're releasing this codex with this poor of rules. When will a summoned bloodthirster ever be useful? Why is an army already at a huge disadvantage against the majority of the game given point increases and forbidden from taking options that could actually help it work? it feels like we're being trolled. I'm pretty tempted to put my chaos army on ebay now. And now I see why they keep such a tight lid on rumors, when they release garbage like this it's best for them the player base doesn't know and buys the book based on what it potentially could be. Knowing what it actually is, I won't spend a dime on it. I really don't get this book, does GW hate money?

Wow stop talking about that a summoned BT would be useless. He don't come from reserve he is summoned. He don't have to fly when he arrives. Look at the codex at mission objective Nr. 15. You gain 1 victory point when a unit of daemons come in from deep strike reserve OR is summoned over the blood for the blood God rule. That mean its not the same. The only restriction that he gains from deep strike rule is that he cant charge in the turn he arrives. So place him within 6 inch, hope that he survive one turn and then pick up some skulls :-)

At least with Bloodletters/Bloodcrushers + Icon there's finally a way to make Warp Talons DS without scattering.

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
At least with Bloodletters/Bloodcrushers + Icon there's finally a way to make Warp Talons DS without scattering.

It's true. If it wasn't nearly 200 points for 5 of them, they might be worth taking, finally.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:

 Darkness wrote:
After reading the book front to back a few times, I am not too happy with it. It basically runs like a mono Demon build with a few benefits over the demon book and some downsides that can be pretty big. The formations are mostly bad too. There are a lot of minor things.

For starters, the armor relic is the cost of a cultist unit and can only be used by Demon Princes.
The ax that turns you into a bloodthirster is more expensive than that one.
No dozers on landraiders
no dirge casters at all

What are the formations?

Here you go!

 Darkness wrote:
Skulltaker can only fight on foot :(

Nooooo I've got a juggernaut converted to stick him on already I did wonder if they would squat that option, bah.

BOLS lounge has a photo of the Khorne 'Decurion' detachment (it was described but I havent seen an actual picture of it yet)

 Warboss85 wrote:

Wow stop talking about that a summoned BT would be useless. He don't come from reserve he is summoned. He don't have to fly when he arrives. Look at the codex at mission objective Nr. 15. You gain 1 victory point when a unit of daemons come in from deep strike reserve OR is summoned over the blood for the blood God rule. That mean its not the same. The only restriction that he gains from deep strike rule is that he cant charge in the turn he arrives. So place him within 6 inch, hope that he survive one turn and then pick up some skulls :-)

I am afraid you are absolutely wrong.

Codex: Daemonkin pg.11, "Designers note":

When a rule indicates that a unit is summoned, a new unit under your control immeadiately arrives via Deep strike within range of the specified unit(s) on the board.

The Rules, pg. 162, "Deep Strike":

Some units must arrive by Deep Strike. They always begin the game in Reserve and always arive by Deep Strike.

So Deep Strike always necessitates Reserves, even if the expression is not used in the summong note and even if the unit didn't exist before.

Which means that

The Rules, pg. 68, "Flying Monstrous Creatures":

If a Flying Monstrous Creature arrives via Deep Strike Reserve, it always counts as being in Swooping mode.
[...]
If a Flying Monstrous Creature changes flight modes during its turn, it cannot declare a charge during the same turn.

still applies.

at the start of your turn, you spend 8 blood tithe points for a BT to immeadiately arrive (from Reserves) via Deep Strike in Swooping mode. It cannot move any further and has to wait until NEXT turn, at the beginning of its move, to change flight mode to gliding. It the has to wait ANOTHER TURN to be able to charge.

considering you won't get 8 blood tithe points until turn 3, so be able to spend it not until the beginning of turn 4, your summoned Bloodthirster will be able to charge not until TURN SIX (if there is one).

now think about that artifact axe that summons a BT when the character holding it dies. He propably won't die until turn 3-4 in melee, but that's not the point. The summoned BT has to wait 2 turns before being able to impact the game, during each of which he looses d3 wounds! Albeit he has his 5++ save againt that, statistics say he'll propably loose 3 of his 5 wounds BEFORE doing anything (that is: IF he doesn't scatter into enemy troops within 6" of the dead artifact bearer and mishaps in the first place). And mind you, the enemy can shoot him, too! So you're paying +30pts over an axe of khorne to put an impressive and expensive model on the table that does nothing until turn SEVEN besides giving your opponent another killpoint. Great!

How much does that differ from just having the model standing besides the table, looking good, and not using him in your army at all, saving points for stuff that works?

What was I saying about the disconnect between the rules writers and the written rules?

With the Formations, if you take the Bloodhost Detachment it does allow you to take 8 Maulerfiends or Soulgrinders. Ive already worked out a few lists with this in mind. 1 has 10 Maulerfiends, 1 has 8 Maulerfiends and 2 Bloodthirsters, and 1 has 8 grinders with torrent and battlecannon

I think most of the actual formations look solid. I'm interested in the whole picture. Funny thing is if this had come out well before the Mechanicum stuff I would be far more interested but my favorite faction being right behind it kinda temper my enthusiasm

 Darkness wrote:
With the Formations, if you take the Bloodhost Detachment it does allow you to take 8 Maulerfiends or Soulgrinders.

I too thought this to be one of the few worthwile additions chaos got out of this dex, but unfortunately, the "war engine" part of the Blood Host detachment is not a formation itself (it has no datasheet), but only an army list entry from C:KDK, so there is no way around having to field a whole CAD or 1+ slaughtercult. As I don't see any reason one would want that, my idea of a pack of khornate fiends still won't be realized outside apocalypse (seriously, why do people still not allow those formations?).

I guess the one good thing left to mention is that via the gorepack you are now able to add fearless hounds and khorne bikers with MtC and non-unwieldy AP2 axe-champs to any army you like, regardless of FA slots. That is also a good opportunity for people to field Juggernaught riders, because Bloodcrushers sure aren't!

I just happen to not like bikers at all (aesthetically/fluffwise) :(

I can't remember but I though someone said you got a free second choice when spending blood points in the Khorne Decurion as long as it was less than the amount spent up to a certain number? Was that right? Because at that point in a double khorne detachment scenario you can grab a unit of 3 Bloodcrushers and 10 Blood letters ever other turn assuming you get a unit of cultists killed at the right time or nab 2 extra points.

Sadly, the cutoff point is at the last buff, not the first summon.

So you can't grab a Skull Cannon for immediate impact and follow it up with reinforcements.

Still, summoning and applying a buff in the same turn is still fairly good.

Side note: Did a little conversing around the local store today, and it seems my local meta seems to go with FMC being able to charge the turn after they strike in for various reasons that admittedly don't fit the rules lawyer precision raw... But given that going by their white dwarf battle report GW seem to do the same thing themselves I'm not gonna argue hard against what's probably a good call.

 Nehekhare wrote:

 Darkness wrote:
With the Formations, if you take the Bloodhost Detachment it does allow you to take 8 Maulerfiends or Soulgrinders.

I too thought this to be one of the few worthwile additions chaos got out of this dex, but unfortunately, the "war engine" part of the Blood Host detachment is not a formation itself (it has no datasheet), but only an army list entry from C:KDK, so there is no way around having to field a whole CAD or 1+ slaughtercult.

I don't think you understand how it works.

You take one Core then between 1-8 of the other min-formations in any combination.

Thus:
Slaughter Cult:
Chaos Lord
2x 8 CSM
5 Bloodletters

War Engine
Maulerfiend

War Engine
Maulerfiend

War Engine
Maulerfiend

War Engine
Maulerfiend

War Engine
Maulerfiend

War Engine
Maulerfiend

War Engine
Maulerfiend

War Engine
Maulerfiend


Is something that would fit in a 1500 point list and perfectly legal.

I've seen this pop up a few times on proposed lists..

Is it confirmed that you can take BL in 5s in this book?

That's a significant departure from the CD book, where they had their min size increased to 10 last update, or are people making assumptions based on the previous book who aren't familiar with the most recent update?

It's been said that 8 is the min for each of the troop choices.

You can take minimum units of 8 of anything.

changemod wrote:
But given that going by their white dwarf battle report GW seem to do the same thing themselves I'm not gonna argue hard against what's probably a good call.

would you mind quoting what they did?

Hmmm... I have mixed feelings about this new army construction mechanic GW is pushing. They hit the nail right on the head with special Detachments, but these formations made of formations... Something about it doesn't feel right.

I actually like them. We have the base way of building armies and then larger benefit for playing "fluffy" which I can also appreciate.

Wait so we've been wrong the whole time about the FMC deepstriking?

When i think about it, the thing of switching flying modes doesn't require you to actually move, it only require that you declare that you do it during the movement phase..., could that be it?

I just heard from my LGS that the Special Edition is being delayed. Wont get them in until April 11, his friend at GW store says.

 oni wrote:
Hmmm... I have mixed feelings about this new army construction mechanic GW is pushing. They hit the nail right on the head with special Detachments, but these formations made of formations... Something about it doesn't feel right.

It prevents spam and encourages army types seen in the background. What's not right?

 Vash108 wrote:
I just heard from my LGS that the Special Edition is being delayed. Wont get them in until April 11, his friend at GW store says.

Only for that particular shop or for every darn shops?

Called GW and they confirmed. This is for all US stores apparently.

It said it would be delivered April 11 from the get-go, at least on the U.S. site when I ordered it the day they were put up for preorder.

I tired to look it up on the site but it was removed. I just expected them to come out together like all the other ones.

Just seems like a huge gap in time to me.

It's lame to wait another week, whatever the reason. Oh well, gives me more time to stew in my rage .

The last time I pre-ordered a codex from GW it didn't arrive until 2 weeks after the release date anyways. I don't think they give a rat's patootee once they have your money.

I'm assuming that like the majority of retailers the strike seriously affected their stuff from China. Which is where the books are printed. Although my local store has them. Maybe they just sent them out to their retailers first this time?

NamelessBard wrote:

I don't think you understand how it works.

I do, but what unfortunately does not work is:

Renegades & Heretics CAD

War Engine
Forgefiend

War Engine
Forgefiend

War Engine
Forgefiend

It all depends on if "War Engine" it's own dataslate, or just a choice on the Slaughtercult list ?

thraxdown wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
So if I'm reading the rumors right, the daemon units don't have access to rewards or any upgrades? That's a real shame. Also, are Bloodletters now 5 models for the starting unit size instead of 10? What is the max unit size?

The guy with the codex said all of the units are the same so I imagine bloodletters can be anywhere between 10 and 20 just like chaos daemons book. a shame if you ask me, at the very least you should be able to take them in units of 8

Given that they're about as resilient as Guardsmen, fielding a unit of 8 bloodletters serves little to no real purpose beyond hemmoraging kill points. Bloodletters in groups of 20 are decent, if you pair them with enough fast threats, but 8 can be made tactically nonviable in a single round of small arms fire from an otherwise harmless scoring unit.

 adamsouza wrote:
It all depends on if "War Engine" it's own dataslate, or just a choice on the Slaughtercult list ?

Just a choice. Like Flayed Ones or Deathmarks on the Decurion.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
It all depends on if "War Engine" it's own dataslate, or just a choice on the Slaughtercult list ?

Just a choice. Like Flayed Ones or Deathmarks on the Decurion.

Oh, then yeah, no spamming it outside of a Slaughtercult.

Been a while since a did I review/overview of a book. So if anyone is interested, here you go: http://www.talkwargaming.com/2015/03/new-release-codex-khorne-daemonkin.html

 Hulksmash wrote:
I'm assuming that like the majority of retailers the strike seriously affected their stuff from China. Which is where the books are printed. Although my local store has them. Maybe they just sent them out to their retailers first this time?

I think the strike itself might be dying down at this point, so shipping times are getting slowly back to normal.

Can someone explain the Decurion esque formation system? I have heard it explained as a formation of formations, but that confuses me.

You can think of it as a normal Battleforged list, but the Formations (Auxillary choices) that are listed also benefit from the Command Benefits of the Core Detachment. Makes it so you don't have to pick and choose either the benefit of a Formation or the benefit of a Detachment like other codecies, you get both by following the guideline.

Did we ever get confirmation that Maulerfiends are in fact Daemons of Khorne now or have the Blood Tithe rule?

Hollismason wrote:
Did we ever get confirmation that Maulerfiends are in fact Daemons of Khorne now or have the Blood Tithe rule?

Looking at it right now they are both a Daemon of Khorne and Have Blood for the Blood God rule so part of Blood Tithe!

God I hate these decurion and formations shenanigans. Sucks out all the originality and fun in building a list.

It does no such thing. I wish they had decided to do this one codex beforehand with Blood Angels. I really like Formations in general but can't take any (worth anything) or else I lose my Initiative 5 bonus. If it were this style then I wouldn't have that issue. Initiative 5 is a HUGE thing for the Angels and its not even worth the 400pts of free gear if they are just normal friggin Marines because of it.

 streetsamurai wrote:
God I hate these decurion and formations shenanigans. Sucks out all the originality and fun in building a list.

Then don't use them? You can still make a normal list y'know. These formations are the very definition of "optional".

 Hulksmash wrote:
I'm assuming that like the majority of retailers the strike seriously affected their stuff from China. Which is where the books are printed. Although my local store has them. Maybe they just sent them out to their retailers first this time?

Chinese New Year also slows everything down, since most places shut down for roughly two weeks (form what I've seen from my various kickstarter efforts). Who knows how well GW planned for that with the new production schedule.

Maulerfiends getting 5 Attacks on the charge plus you can put them near a Loci that gives them Hatred by using the BLood Throne is pretty sweet.

The good lads at /tg/ have just found an amusing interaction between the Tithe and the Axe of Ruin.

The Axe triggers when the bearer is removed as a casualty. The 7-Point Tithe kills the character and replaces them with a Daemon Prince, bearing the same Artefacts. Combining the 2 means that if your Lord ascends into a Prince, you spawn a free Bloodthirster and at the same time, get a Prince. Even better, when the Prince dies, you get a *second* Bloodthirster because he is still carrying the Axe!
Getting 2 Bloodthirsters is a much easier pill to swallow for the price, even if they do come in late and melt slightly. But as it stands this is a delightful trick worthy of Tzeentch himself.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:

thraxdown wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
So if I'm reading the rumors right, the daemon units don't have access to rewards or any upgrades? That's a real shame. Also, are Bloodletters now 5 models for the starting unit size instead of 10? What is the max unit size?

The guy with the codex said all of the units are the same so I imagine bloodletters can be anywhere between 10 and 20 just like chaos daemons book. a shame if you ask me, at the very least you should be able to take them in units of 8

Given that they're about as resilient as Guardsmen, fielding a unit of 8 bloodletters serves little to no real purpose beyond hemmoraging kill points. Bloodletters in groups of 20 are decent, if you pair them with enough fast threats, but 8 can be made tactically nonviable in a single round of small arms fire from an otherwise harmless scoring unit.

Actually, its changed so Blood Letters can indeed be taken 8 as a minimum, this is awesome both by fluff and tactics, IMO. Letters are only decent if they are many and get the assault bonus, and by then they cost to much for what they might be able to do. Deep strike objective harassment and quad gunners do just fine with 8.
Also Ive been planning 8 men units since the rumor got verified. Very glad I dnt have to take 16 letters to ad up.

A shame that Feel No Pain doesn't work for vehicles as I've grown more interested in going for the 4 Blood Points and choose Feel No Pain as the second reward.

I'll also be looking more into Power Armour units as the Feel No Pain will give a Chaos Space Marine a 88,89 % chance of surviving a AP4-or-worse shot - compare that to the base chance of 83,33 % of 2+ armour.

Does the Daemon of Khorne rule contain fearless, or is fearless replaced Daemonic instability?

Fearless replaced.

Just got my Skulltaker limited edition. Only thing is that I cancelled it last week (and have the confirmation email from GW) once the leaks about what was in it started to appear.

Nothing on my credit card yet. Wonder if I ought to contact GW and see what they want to do about it? Anyone know if they usually want it sending back in these circumstances? Do they provide return postage labels?

There's a clause either under the sale of goods or distance selling regs which means that you are obliged to tell them you have received it (which they can no doubt confirm for themselves via tracking details or similar) but as they essentially sent you something you had expressly informed them you no longer desired, I'd class it as "unsolicited goods" which essentially means that the responsibility for retrieving it lies solely with GW, and if they fail to do so then you are entitled to retain it.

ChaosDog wrote:
Just got my Skulltaker limited edition. Only thing is that I cancelled it last week (and have the confirmation email from GW) once the leaks about what was in it started to appear.

Nothing on my credit card yet. Wonder if I ought to contact GW and see what they want to do about it? Anyone know if they usually want it sending back in these circumstances? Do they provide return postage labels?

When I had ordered my Thanquol End times off the web, it took two weeks for that to show up on my bank statement. I wasn't happy about that. (Normally, I just order using the local order point, and it clears within 2 days, and pay in the store). I don't know how much of that had to do with the website crashing that day....

I am working out a list using the Blood Host Detachement. It is my first time using a Decurion style detachment
and it is proving to be a challenge.

One question I have is if I am using two Blood Host detachments, does that mean each turn I would generate two (2)
Blood Tithe points? (1 per detachment)

I knew that Kharn had been removed but I also noticed that Karanak was gone as well. There are no Predator tanks either.
No complaints, just observations.

Also, since the Blood Host detachment can only be made up of the formations listed (Slaughtercult, Gorepack, etc), does that mean
the only way to have a Land Raider in the Blood Host is to use the Brazen Onslaught formation and take the LR as a dedicated
transport for the terminators?

Thanks,
Tom

My buddy picked up his copy of the codex yesterday, and he loved it soo much he's trading it to me for a spare Eldar codex I had.

 adamsouza wrote:
My buddy picked up his copy of the codex yesterday, and he loved it soo much he's trading it to me for a spare Eldar codex I had.

He'll be really happy about that in two weeks...