Those darkoath looks great, and solve lots of rumor engine pics.
I wonder if they scale up to the warcry guys. They look pretty big and these special edition can be strange sizes.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The blurb at the end of the article sounds like something else is coming up too
There are pictures floating around AoS Slaves to Darkness Facebook of more reveals. More horsemen, a spiky not-werewolf type thing, and maybe more infantry and a mounted character/champion.
I didn’t watch the reveal stream, but its photo snapshots of what looks like a GW preview video.
well that solves two recent rumor engines! i really like the guy with the horns and the guy on the horse. are these supposed to be another warcry warband or something? probably like the stormcast thing they did recently? pretty motley mix, and five standalone characters would be a lot for a range refresh
Darkoath getting a range refresh does feel, to me, like evidence that the warcry stuff and stuff of a similar aesthetic is going to get split off into its own codex distinct from Slaves to Darkness, tho. it's getting too big and too bloated, and there's an obvious dividing line between them
For the most part, it looks like the basic warriors and Calvary are being replaced, plus some new monsters and heroes. Nothing too crazy unless all the warcry models ends up filling out a separate battle tome
I do wonder when these models are going to be released. we're so close to the (assumed) end of the edition, and this is a fairly big range update. if it doesn't happen in the next few months, it'll be a new edition, and with a starter box in the summer and stormcast/skaven in the fall, that means the next codex likely wouldn't be until late fall or winter, which is a long ways off. but if it's in the next few months, I'm not sure what this would be tying into. GW rarely releases models standalone
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Could always be the rumour was wrong and the Darkoath are the launch faction. And Skaven are just getting their big redo with their next book.
The leaked skaven sprue is push fit so 99% a launch faction
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StudentOfEtherium wrote: I do wonder when these models are going to be released. we're so close to the (assumed) end of the edition, and this is a fairly big range update. if it doesn't happen in the next few months, it'll be a new edition, and with a starter box in the summer and stormcast/skaven in the fall, that means the next codex likely wouldn't be until late fall or winter, which is a long ways off. but if it's in the next few months, I'm not sure what this would be tying into. GW rarely releases models standalone
There were rumours about a chaos focused Dawnbringers book, originally thought to be the 5th one. That wasn't the case with that one instead instead having DoK so maybe the chaos book is instead the 6th one which would be when we get all these Darkoath?
StudentOfEtherium wrote: I do wonder when these models are going to be released. we're so close to the (assumed) end of the edition, and this is a fairly big range update. if it doesn't happen in the next few months, it'll be a new edition, and with a starter box in the summer and stormcast/skaven in the fall, that means the next codex likely wouldn't be until late fall or winter, which is a long ways off. but if it's in the next few months, I'm not sure what this would be tying into. GW rarely releases models standalone
There were rumours about a chaos focused Dawnbringers book, originally thought to be the 5th one. That wasn't the case with that one instead instead having DoK so maybe the chaos book is instead the 6th one which would be when we get all these Darkoath?
i think that's what it would need to be. one final book with a Darkoath focus, but that ends on a tease of something happening with the skaven... would be a solid way of segueing into the new edition
If the recent downloadable Ironjawz supplement is the set of a precedent, this Darkoath stuff will probably get the same treatment. A little bit of new artwork, lore and rules with no need for a new book. Maybe it will include a rework of the “Ravagers” subfaction that ditches the “Marauder” keyword stuff and the Marauder mini’s get some sent to TOW.
The Dark Oath stuff looks awesome and the leaks are the icing on the cake for GW at least updating some of the old Marauder models to Darkoath (please GW don't be daft and just have Darkoath and Marauders - let the old Marauder kits rest in peace now).
I do agree GW could easily splinter a lot of the Warcy Warbands off into their own army and it would have a huge amount of variety. Right now they all kind of work in Slaves to Darkness because they sort of fill a similar point value and role slot with some variation, though a few (like the armourd ones) do stand out being generically better to take over the others.
If they got their own army GW could give them more diverse and powerful stats as they wouldn't have Chaos Warriors and other parts of the Slaves to Darkness army.
Overread wrote: The Dark Oath stuff looks awesome and the leaks are the icing on the cake for GW at least updating some of the old Marauder models to Darkoath (please GW don't be daft and just have Darkoath and Marauders - let the old Marauder kits rest in peace now).
I do agree GW could easily splinter a lot of the Warcy Warbands off into their own army and it would have a huge amount of variety. Right now they all kind of work in Slaves to Darkness because they sort of fill a similar point value and role slot with some variation, though a few (like the armourd ones) do stand out being generically better to take over the others.
If they got their own army GW could give them more diverse and powerful stats as they wouldn't have Chaos Warriors and other parts of the Slaves to Darkness army.
yeah, it's sort of lame that all of the different warbands have these diverse aesthetics and unique models, and then they all cost in the 70-100 points range. GW could do a lot more with them if they were their own thing
also the more i think about it, the more i'm coming around on these being the replacement for marauders, especially with the idea of marauders heading back to the old world
It's honestly nice to see a new chaos monster. Both for Slaves to Darkness and the 4 gods there's actually very few monsters.
The 4 gods in particular have had the same few demonic models for decades.
Slaanesh has had seekers and Fiends for utterly years and nothing else - even the new exalted seekers are just bigger (cooler) seekers.
It's one thing I hope we see in AoS with the split up armies is more beasts/monsters/demons of chaos making an appearance now that each of the 5 arms are standing on their own as full armies.
Is the uploaded movie based on the WH+ darkoaths?
If not, it looks alot like they are not part of a Slaves to darkness force, and the catch phrase "cast of your shackles" sounds strange if they were slaves to darkness. But who knows.
Fayric wrote: Is the uploaded movie based on the WH+ darkoaths?
If not, it looks alot like they are not part of a Slaves to darkness force, and the catch phrase "cast of your shackles" sounds strange if they were slaves to darkness. But who knows.
It's a running theme, esp in AoS, that many of the followers of Chaos have no clue they are following Chaos. They can even be horrified at what they are doing, but they end up slaves to it.
Almost all the Warcry Warbands don't follow any of the 4 Major Chaos Gods, they each have their own named god that they follow. The cruel twist that slaves them is that the gods they follow don't exist as gods; they are Greater Demons of one of the 4 Chaos Gods posing as those gods. So two different settlements of the same Warband could be following the same named god; but in reality each worships them slightly differently because one is a Keeper of Secrets and the other a Bloodthirster.
Some do have an understanding of the Chaos gods and do specifically follow them. Heck one of the first Novella books (and I'm very sad to see GW no longer doing them as a theme) had tribes fighting between the gods and even a sense that the Gods they followed had to keep up their end of the deal or they'd switch gods.
We as readers often can tell when its one of the Chaos Gods and even which one when the author isn't being really sneaking. Because we've a greater overall lore understanding of the setting than the characters within. So many of them are Slaves to Darkness and Chaos, but they have no clue that they are Slaves to it.
Fayric wrote: Is the uploaded movie based on the WH+ darkoaths?
If not, it looks alot like they are not part of a Slaves to darkness force, and the catch phrase "cast of your shackles" sounds strange if they were slaves to darkness. But who knows.
It's a running theme, esp in AoS, that many of the followers of Chaos have no clue they are following Chaos. They can even be horrified at what they are doing, but they end up slaves to it.
Almost all the Warcry Warbands don't follow any of the 4 Major Chaos Gods, they each have their own named god that they follow. The cruel twist that slaves them is that the gods they follow don't exist as gods; they are Greater Demons of one of the 4 Chaos Gods posing as those gods. So two different settlements of the same Warband could be following the same named god; but in reality each worships them slightly differently because one is a Keeper of Secrets and the other a Bloodthirster.
Some do have an understanding of the Chaos gods and do specifically follow them. Heck one of the first Novella books (and I'm very sad to see GW no longer doing them as a theme) had tribes fighting between the gods and even a sense that the Gods they followed had to keep up their end of the deal or they'd switch gods.
We as readers often can tell when its one of the Chaos Gods and even which one when the author isn't being really sneaking. Because we've a greater overall lore understanding of the setting than the characters within. So many of them are Slaves to Darkness and Chaos, but they have no clue that they are Slaves to it.
that's actually pretty disappointing. I had been under the impression that the gods they followed were simply minor chaos gods, and thought it was cool that this underutilized aspect of the lore was being developed. having it turn out to be "nope only the four we always talk about" feels underwhelming in comparison
I can see one each of infantry, cavalry, mounted hero, and monster, so it looks like they are the long needed Marauder refresh, with a new chieftain to keep pace in a pure Darkoath army, and a new beastie for flavour. Very keen
The monster itself is real cool, looks like if Jim Henson was inspired to put a Fallout Deathclaw in The Dark Crystal
Fayric wrote: Is the uploaded movie based on the WH+ darkoaths?
If not, it looks alot like they are not part of a Slaves to darkness force, and the catch phrase "cast of your shackles" sounds strange if they were slaves to darkness. But who knows.
It's a running theme, esp in AoS, that many of the followers of Chaos have no clue they are following Chaos. They can even be horrified at what they are doing, but they end up slaves to it.
Almost all the Warcry Warbands don't follow any of the 4 Major Chaos Gods, they each have their own named god that they follow. The cruel twist that slaves them is that the gods they follow don't exist as gods; they are Greater Demons of one of the 4 Chaos Gods posing as those gods. So two different settlements of the same Warband could be following the same named god; but in reality each worships them slightly differently because one is a Keeper of Secrets and the other a Bloodthirster.
Some do have an understanding of the Chaos gods and do specifically follow them. Heck one of the first Novella books (and I'm very sad to see GW no longer doing them as a theme) had tribes fighting between the gods and even a sense that the Gods they followed had to keep up their end of the deal or they'd switch gods.
We as readers often can tell when its one of the Chaos Gods and even which one when the author isn't being really sneaking. Because we've a greater overall lore understanding of the setting than the characters within. So many of them are Slaves to Darkness and Chaos, but they have no clue that they are Slaves to it.
that's actually pretty disappointing. I had been under the impression that the gods they followed were simply minor chaos gods, and thought it was cool that this underutilized aspect of the lore was being developed. having it turn out to be "nope only the four we always talk about" feels underwhelming in comparison
In theory some might be minor gods. AoS is big enough to support that. However predominantly the Big 4 have the most Greater Demons with enough power to influence and get into the Real World to thus get followers. Other demons in the Warp are much weaker so we see far less of it.
That said The Great Horned Rat is a 5th Chaos God and we are likely to see some movement there with Skaven being in the boxed set this edition. 40K also now has a Warpsmith who is basically Chaos God equivalent in power. So I think GW are exploring elements of Chaos outside of the big 4. However its still something you're more likely to see in stories than you are in the core factions/models and armies.
GW has very little incentive to dilute Chaos with actual minor deities, when the aspects of the Great Four give them all the variety they'd ever want without having to commit to supporting yet another subfaction in the fluff.
And as I noted there's still ample space to expand the big 4 within their own sub-armies that they've done for AoS and partly done for 40K as well. I think only Slaanesh hasn't got a bunch of space marine themed model updates for 40K so chances are we'll see that from GW in the next year or two. Updated noise marines and a few other bits for a themed 40K force.
Saviours of Cinderfall should come out to $75 while the Cronehost is $110. Couldn't find anything jumping out to compare to the Spearheads. Should be $140.
Really nice sculpts. Only getting 5 horsemen is a bit of a bummer though, given their historical role as a lighter cheaper horde cavalry unit. Would have liked to have 10 to a set instead.
Oh man, that's awesome! My only minor quibble is I wish the Marauders had gotten archer options on foot and on horseback to go with them.
I was also a bit surprised they didn't include The Godsworn Hunt in the examples of add-ons, but then realized they aren't available anywhere. I hate that they stop selling the standalone Underworlds warbands like that. Even if they are direct only, it's still preferable to just discontinuing them.
EDIT: The updated concept of Scyla Anfingrimm is cool too. I really dig the idea of marauders who succumb to spawndom, but are kept as shock troops for their tribe.
GaroRobe wrote: So Wilderfiend are basically just more sentient chaos spawn? The main head is reminiscent of the old forgeworld great spined chaos beast
Oh yeah, it really is! My brain went to Scyla Anfingrimm, but the spined beast is probably a closer inspiration.
GaroRobe wrote: So Wilderfiend are basically just more sentient chaos spawn? The main head is reminiscent of the old forgeworld great spined chaos beast
Oh yeah, it really is! My brain went to Scyla Anfingrimm, but the spined beast is probably a closer inspiration.
That reminds me that I have an old metal Scyla Anfingrimm somewhere in a box that I need to find now.
At last faithful replacements for the Maruader kits! That looks like a really fun set and I like that it ties in with the animation too!
chaos0xomega wrote: Really nice sculpts. Only getting 5 horsemen is a bit of a bummer though, given their historical role as a lighter cheaper horde cavalry unit. Would have liked to have 10 to a set instead.
Honestly 5 Cavalry to a boxed set is where GW has been for Cavalry for a while now. Esp with the larger mounts they are doing these days, it doesn't seem that we'll get smaller units. I think its also not helped by the fact that Cavalry are not their own thing in AoS and big units are not a thing this edition.
these models are all great, but I definitely wasn't expecting this announcement so soon after the first reveal. guess they need to get it out before 4th, tho
Shakalooloo wrote: Yes please to all these barbarians! I don't care for the monster dude personally, but I do wonder what other heads the bossman has available.
One is a spiked skull mask/helmet as pictured on pg 201.
Darkoath looks really tempting.
Looks like a classic set up with a fun supplement a few months prior to a new edition, and then they make the fluffy rules obsolete for 4th edition and make it impossible to run a pure Darkoath list.
Shakalooloo wrote: Yes please to all these barbarians! I don't care for the monster dude personally, but I do wonder what other heads the bossman has available.
One is a spiked skull mask/helmet as pictured on pg 201.
Hmm, neither looks particularly exciting to me. Fingers crossed that door number 3 has something I like better.
Fayric wrote: Darkoath looks really tempting.
Looks like a classic set up with a fun supplement a few months prior to a new edition, and then they make the fluffy rules obsolete for 4th edition and make it impossible to run a pure Darkoath list.
You can run pure darkoath now. You can run them in 4th too. Just better with more units.
Fayric wrote: Darkoath looks really tempting.
Looks like a classic set up with a fun supplement a few months prior to a new edition, and then they make the fluffy rules obsolete for 4th edition and make it impossible to run a pure Darkoath list.
if 4th edition was going to be a major rules reset like 10th edition 40k was, we would already be hearing rumors about that. it's going to be a case like 2nd to 3rd edition where all the same books are playable until they're replaced later, meaning this supplement is going to be playable until Slaves to Darkness get their new army book (and that's probably going to have greater rules support for Darkoath now that they're a distinct range within the range)
Fayric wrote: Darkoath looks really tempting.
Looks like a classic set up with a fun supplement a few months prior to a new edition, and then they make the fluffy rules obsolete for 4th edition and make it impossible to run a pure Darkoath list.
if 4th edition was going to be a major rules reset like 10th edition 40k was, we would already be hearing rumors about that. it's going to be a case like 2nd to 3rd edition where all the same books are playable until they're replaced later, meaning this supplement is going to be playable until Slaves to Darkness get their new army book (and that's probably going to have greater rules support for Darkoath now that they're a distinct range within the range)
We will just have to wait and see. Perhaps this supplement will not be obsolete at the same time they drop 4th, but I would not expect any special batallions or rules from it to last long. GW quickly get bored with supplement rules and fluffy ad ons. sooner rather than later they will just have the units struggle with minor token rules.
The "supplement" is likely the same as the Ironjawz got with the Dawnbringer book that added the Baconators. Some new traits, the units, and an army of renown that lets you field just those things.
Shakalooloo wrote: Yes please to all these barbarians! I don't care for the monster dude personally, but I do wonder what other heads the bossman has available.
One is a spiked skull mask/helmet as pictured on pg 201.
Hmm, neither looks particularly exciting to me. Fingers crossed that door number 3 has something I like better.
I would assume it's these three options from today's article:
straken619 wrote: Am I the only one that sees Dothraki warriors? Not complaining though, probably that's the reason I like them so much.
Too much armor for Dothraki, at least when compared to what I believe is the more book accurate adaptation of Dothraki in CMON's ASOIAF tabletop game.
Funnily enough though, the Ravagers subfaction in Slaves to Darkness allows Darkoath keyword units to respawn after they are destroyed, much like the Dothraki in GoT season 8 where they just kept respawning as the deplorable plot needed.
Not darkoath related, but has GW stopped selling the plastic greyseer? It’s one of the more “recent” skaven models so I’d be surprised if it was getting redone
I would assume it's these three options from today's article:
Yeah, they added that image since I first read the article and now I look like a fool!
Mempo-face also does nothing for me. Looks like the hair is part of the modelsince it's on all the heads, so any alterative face may need to work around that, or else re-work a lot of musculature if cutting away the mane.
Chaos Spawn is a kind of catch-all term though. It's a bit closer to a racial type than a specific thing.
So this new beast might be a spawn of chaos, but its perhaps stable enough that its a breed/unique creature/type that you can field etc... So it stands alone and gets its own name and so forth.
Much like humans are a creature type, but within that you've got archers, spearmen and so forth in armies.
I would assume it's these three options from today's article:
Yeah, they added that image since I first read the article and now I look like a fool!
Mempo-face also does nothing for me. Looks like the hair is part of the modelsince it's on all the heads, so any alterative face may need to work around that, or else re-work a lot of musculature if cutting away the mane.
EDIT: Erk! He also has no nipples!!!
Not sure how the hair is going to turn out. Yelly face and grinny face share all strands, but the upper one is missing from masky face.
With a little luck the lower strands are part of the neck or back of the head and detached from the arm as part of the body front jigsaw piece. Might be reasonably easy to just cut them off.
Even if not, with some care it should be possible to quickly and roughly remove most of the hair and shave the connection points down to get a bare arm without any need for sculpting.
Those are nice models. I don't like it that they have decided that all sets will now be mixed between males and females. Seems particularly crazy for tribes whose fighting style relies on physical strength rather than a gun line or something. Might be possible to convert some to males looking at the sculpts.
How much are the new Army Sets these days? Do the army books or whatever that come in the sets have resale value?
Gallahad wrote: Those are nice models. I don't like it that they have decided that all sets will now be mixed between males and females. Seems particularly crazy for tribes whose fighting style relies on physical strength rather than a gun line or something. Might be possible to convert some to males looking at the sculpts.
How much are the new Army Sets these days? Do the army books or whatever that come in the sets have resale value?
female strongwomen exist. even if they didn't, in a game with monsters and magic, are you really going to say that women with muscles are too unrealistic?
I don't really care about historical statistics in a fantasy game, but if that's really going to be a sticking point, let's say the extra 10-20% are all canonically transgender women. more representation, and it solves the issue, right!
speaking as a woman in this hobby, more representation of women in models, especially in ranges that aren't exclusively women (AdSor are neat, but feel a bit like "okay, here's your girl toys, different from everyone else"), makes me happy because it makes me feel like there's a place for me in this hobby. I want women to be mixed in with the men, to be a normal thing, but anytime it happens, people start clinging to outdated and sexist gender ideals. things like this are important unless you want this hobby to be exclusively, or near exclusively, men. I want things like this because it makes the hobby feel inviting. expressly saying this representation shouldn't exist has the opposite effect
I have absolutely no problem with the female barabarians. (dem guns! ) It is funny that the evil forces of Chaos are more progressive in this than elves are, though!
Modern dayism appeals significantly more to the tourists than it does to the customers, but GW seems to be skilled at picking their spots. Barbarian tribes are represented as having strong warrior women in a lot of things, I just watched Dune speaking of, so that's their in, though three of the five mounted marauders made me laugh.
It's GW's fine line to walk, if they're going to charge $6 per infantry model and $12 per cavalry model, with yearly price increases from there, they can hardly afford to turn off even a small percentage of their whales.
Shakalooloo wrote: I have absolutely no problem with the female barabarians. (dem guns! ) It is funny that the evil forces of Chaos are more progressive in this than elves are, though!
clearly it's Slaanesh that makes the difference! She Who Thirsts has been warhammer's premier source of diversity since 1988
Option should be axe, mace or any other 1 handed weapon, or a weapon hand to replace the shield, because the way they held spear near the tip is atrocious, they did the same thing to the chaos warrior but that one they looks like they're relaxing/marching, but this one they actually try to fight like that.
I for one am extremely pleased that there starts to be more equal gender representation in the game. I really hope there will be a mounted Dark Oath war queen too.
I really wish GW continues on this path, and if that makes people who are mad about it to leave, then that certainly will be a big improvement and make the hobby less toxic.
Even way back at the start of AoS it was very clear in the lore and stories (eg the novella) that the Barbarians/Darkoath had a good number of warrior women. Heck I'm reading those early Bretonnia novels right now and even back then the Norscans had warrior women on the battlefield.
It's been long established that their women, esp for Chaos and barbarian groups in GW settings; go to war as much as the men. It's one unit that doesn't really have to change gender display to "fit modern themes" or anything; women appearing in the kit is just balancing it out for what was always there in the lore.
Now if you want a change then the old Bretonnia novels very clearly have male fighters and women only feature on the battlefield as Handmaidens of the Lady. Otherwise they are all men; so the more recent Bretonnia novel with a whole flight of Pegasus rider women and so forth is quite a new concept. Though even then the whole story is set in the Boarder Kingdom region which is renowned for not following normal social values nor rules that the major faction has. So again, we see difference and change which is more just reflecting different areas of the lore that were established decades ago.
Now if you want a change then the old Bretonnia novels very clearly have male fighters and women only feature on the battlefield as Handmaidens of the Lady. Otherwise they are all men; so the more recent Bretonnia novel with a whole flight of Pegasus rider women and so forth is quite a new concept. Though even then the whole story is set in the Boarder Kingdom region which is renowned for not following normal social values nor rules that the major faction has. So again, we see difference and change which is more just reflecting different areas of the lore that were established decades ago.
maybe it's just because i'm a Fire Emblem fan, but the trope of pegasus riders being women makes sense to me. within the setting, it works as a way to have the "proper" knights all still be men, but have female representation beyond handmaidens and the like
Do the army books the army box comes with have any resale value?
They may have for people who only want new book and no plans for any minis because either have too many already or do not have money currently to buy more/new ones.
It's not an army launch box, it doesn't have a tome and big packs of cards. It has a pamphlet and 4 cards. Whether this makes it cheaper than the standard £120 is yet to be seen.
Gallahad wrote: Those are nice models. I don't like it that they have decided that all sets will now be mixed between males and females. Seems particularly crazy for tribes whose fighting style relies on physical strength rather than a gun line or something. Might be possible to convert some to males looking at the sculpts.
How much are the new Army Sets these days? Do the army books or whatever that come in the sets have resale value?
Expect to be called mysogynistic and a monster by an army of armchair psychologists
but seriously,I kind of agree with you, but not really for these kits. Barbarian womens are a pretty standard fantasy trope.
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Overread wrote: Chaos Spawn is a kind of catch-all term though. It's a bit closer to a racial type than a specific thing.
So this new beast might be a spawn of chaos, but its perhaps stable enough that its a breed/unique creature/type that you can field etc... So it stands alone and gets its own name and so forth.
Much like humans are a creature type, but within that you've got archers, spearmen and so forth in armies.
Doesn't really change my point. Do we really need to have all these bespoken units? But once again, it's only a very minor complaint
Chopstick wrote: Option should be axe, mace or any other 1 handed weapon, or a weapon hand to replace the shield, because the way they held spear near the tip is atrocious, they did the same thing to the chaos warrior but that one they looks like they're relaxing/marching, but this one they actually try to fight like that.
Ah, that's a good shout, couldn't quite work out what seemed off about them. The problem with the Chaos Warriors is them trying to use a two-handed weapon with just one, it's more like what happened with the Saurus Warriors, holding their spears like it's their first day out of the spawning pools. This is my just desserts for being in favour of set poses for plastic infantry; GW took away most of the options and then fully half of what's left looks just as stilted and awkward as the average multipose design.
Sword and board still looks solid, but damn did the unit customization and personalization just take a hit.
There's nothing wrong with wielding a spear with one hand, provided the spear actually looks like it was meant to be used that way. We could discuss the practicalities of using a sword/spear hybrid, but the Darkoath seem to be holding them correctly and most of the poses aren't particularly outlandish. The dude paired with the standard bearer is quite good actually.
Heck if anything spear and shield was used way more commonly in battle than sword and shield for a very long time. Or they'd be used in conjunction with spears first and then short swords being pulled if the spear was broken/lost.
The ability to stab someone at range is very powerful in battle.
It's mostly films, video games and fantasy that have twisted us to perceiving that swords were always the best and almost only weapon used.
The Darkoath spears honestly look more like spear swords as the sharp end looks elongated more like a sword. So them holding them closer to the heavier sword end makes sense for balance and for using them as some kind of hybrid sword-spear weapon. Like a nagamaki (from 5 seconds googling)
yeah, spears are a very practical weapon. I've done some research when looking into Fate stuff and for most of history you can reasonably say that if someone was on the frontlines, they had a spear, and not a sword or an axe. axes in particular are much more practical as tools rather than weapons, since a full-body swing is going to leave you a lot more vulnerable than a full-body thrust, even if an axe might look cooler on film
also, the naginata mention was interesting to me, since I typically associate those as being curved blades, unlike the straight blades on these spears, so I spent a few minutes looking around on wikipedia, and, I didn't really see any specific point of reference for this kind of spear. it seems to be some kind of glaive, but looking at the types of glaives that wikipedia lists, it doesn't really resemble any of them (the east asian naginata, guandao, and woldo, or the Russian sovnya. there's an image of various glaives, including the examples I mentioned, and all of them seem to be curved
having a curved blade on the end makes sense for any purpose that you would want a long blade at the end of a spear. the darkoath blades at the end of their spears are very much just normal sword blades attached to spears. maybe there's some historical precedent here that I'm missing, or maybe the modeler just thought it looked cool (it does; I love this kind of spear)
Gallahad wrote: What are the army boxes typically priced at?
Do the army books the army box comes with have any resale value?
Some people like 'limited edition' books. In this particular case, it seems a hard sell, because there's so little in it, and its going to be available as a free PDF and it has an even shorter life span than most GW books, as everything here will be subsumed into the next Slaves to Darkness book (the current one is already almost 18 months old, so could be at half its lifespan)
Overread wrote: Heck if anything spear and shield was used way more commonly in battle than sword and shield for a very long time. Or they'd be used in conjunction with spears first and then short swords being pulled if the spear was broken/lost.
The ability to stab someone at range is very powerful in battle.
It's mostly films, video games and fantasy that have twisted us to perceiving that swords were always the best and almost only weapon used.
Yep.
Spears easier to train, have advantage of range and lot cheaper to produce for bulk of warriors.
Gallahad wrote: What are the army boxes typically priced at?
Do the army books the army box comes with have any resale value?
Some people like 'limited edition' books. In this particular case, it seems a hard sell, because there's so little in it, and its going to be available as a free PDF and it has an even shorter life span than most GW books, as everything here will be subsumed into the next Slaves to Darkness book (the current one is already almost 18 months old, so could be at half its lifespan)
Thank you for the thoughtful answer. I don't play AOS (obviously) or keep up with GW releases. Seems unlikely this box has enough value for me.
Too bad. I feel it is getting harder and harder to give GW my money. I can never tell what is actually being sold or is just a preview of a pre-order or something. Then the stuff is all gone when I check back later!
I've still got many of the current Chaos Maurader horsemen on sprue and many various barbarians in classic S&S style.
I suspect with all the specific action poses the models have, head options alone won't avoid clone syndrome even for the second box. It'll probably help to go with the hand weapon option and sword on a stick respectively on duplicate bodies alongside the different head options to get some variety at least.
Unless GW goes back on the weapon rules and makes different options distinct in the rules again, of course. New edition coming up, so you never know.
speaking as a woman in this hobby, more representation of women in models, especially in ranges that aren't exclusively women (AdSor are neat, but feel a bit like "okay, here's your girl toys, different from everyone else"), makes me happy because it makes me feel like there's a place for me in this hobby. I want women to be mixed in with the men, to be a normal thing, but anytime it happens, people start clinging to outdated and sexist gender ideals. things like this are important unless you want this hobby to be exclusively, or near exclusively, men. I want things like this because it makes the hobby feel inviting. expressly saying this representation shouldn't exist has the opposite effect
This, 100%. I love that there are both male and female sculpts, it makes the hobby feel welcoming, plus it's so much more interesting than painting the same super jacked mr universe every time - which I get is apparently a male fantasy, but imo it's boring. That and the mixed genders is why I vastly prefer a lot of the warcry warbands to eg. the super muscley khorne or tzeentch dudes, and why I'm loving these new darkoath.
speaking as a woman in this hobby, more representation of women in models, especially in ranges that aren't exclusively women (AdSor are neat, but feel a bit like "okay, here's your girl toys, different from everyone else"), makes me happy because it makes me feel like there's a place for me in this hobby. I want women to be mixed in with the men, to be a normal thing, but anytime it happens, people start clinging to outdated and sexist gender ideals. things like this are important unless you want this hobby to be exclusively, or near exclusively, men. I want things like this because it makes the hobby feel inviting. expressly saying this representation shouldn't exist has the opposite effect
This, 100%. I love that there are both male and female sculpts, it makes the hobby feel welcoming, plus it's so much more interesting than painting the same super jacked mr universe every time - which I get is apparently a male fantasy, but imo it's boring. That and the mixed genders is why I vastly prefer a lot of the warcry warbands to eg. the super muscley khorne or tzeentch dudes, and why I'm loving these new darkoath.
With all due respect I dont think that Warhammer 40k or AoS miniatures should Cather to any type of "gender ideals". This is about a fantasy setting that should have its own specific universe... and not be determined by "past" or New gender trends.
Its about and JUST about the miniatures, sculpts, art etc IMO.
With that said I could care less about any gender on my 28mm miniatures... Currently doing Votann and both genders head sculpts quality is iffy so giving them all helmets. So if GW sculpts a good piece its a good piece and for me its totally detached from social/ political backgrounds... Hell if you wanna be picky about inclusion the fluff is not errrr particularly politically correct XD But then thats part of the "specific fantasy universe" detached from reality I was talking about.
Theres nothing wrong about specific settings having specific preferences. For example, I don't want my UWU CHIBI cute specific universe that I'm a fan of to include other stereotypes either. Thats the charm of the settings.
With all that said whatever floats your boat really. My boat docks in different fantasy universes for different reasons theres plenty of universes to enjoy.
lord_blackfang wrote: It's easy to say "whatever floats your boat" when literally every dock is made to suit you.
Wrong starting point. You assume Im in the Sexism race... while Im out. Im about the miniatures and so is the core of Warhammer, In fact I have been complaining about GW lack of talent sculpting females for 2 decades now. So NO it does not float my boat the sculpting quality of certain subjects... the other things you're inferring I leave that to other people that cannot split between fantasy and reality.
Disclaimer: I think GW is getting better at sculpting females and these barbarians are a good way forward. The Female on foot standart bearer is the best of the lot.
Personally I feel when a tribe reaches the point of literally swearing blood-oaths to the gods before battle *and the gods listen* any impact of gender on fighting ability has been left very far behind.
One could also argue that the natural/unnatural selection of the Age of Chaos favored populations where both genders were readily able to take up arms in their own defense. Certainly this is a variation of humanity that needs to deal with surroundings several orders of magnitude more dangerous than our own.
lord_blackfang wrote: It's easy to say "whatever floats your boat" when literally every dock is made to suit you.
Wrong starting point. You assume Im in the Sexism race... while Im out. Im about the miniatures and so is the core of Warhammer, In fact I have been complaining about GW lack of talent sculpting females for 2 decades now. So NO it does not float my boat the sculpting quality of certain subjects... the other things you're inferring I leave that to other people that cannot split between fantasy and reality.
Disclaimer: I think GW is getting better at sculpting females and these barbarians are a good way forward. The Female on foot standart bearer is the best of the lot.
i think votann is a step in the right direction, at least. the head options being interchangeable means that men and women alike are sharing the same armor, which is just reasonable from a tactical perspective, and makes visual sense for models as bulky as these. yeah the faces are underwhelming, but but this is the ideal way to handle kits of this nature
but models like darkoath are a proper step in the other direction. despite not wearing armor, these models still look reasonable (for fantasy barbarians). they don't have their tits obnoxiously out and they're not hyperfeminine for no reason. both these kits get it right in different ways and i hope GW continues following in this trend
lord_blackfang wrote: It's easy to say "whatever floats your boat" when literally every dock is made to suit you.
Wrong starting point. You assume Im in the Sexism race... while Im out. Im about the miniatures and so is the core of Warhammer, In fact I have been complaining about GW lack of talent sculpting females for 2 decades now. So NO it does not float my boat the sculpting quality of certain subjects... the other things you're inferring I leave that to other people that cannot split between fantasy and reality.
Disclaimer: I think GW is getting better at sculpting females and these barbarians are a good way forward. The Female on foot standart bearer is the best of the lot.
i think votann is a step in the right direction, at least. the head options being interchangeable means that men and women alike are sharing the same armor, which is just reasonable from a tactical perspective, and makes visual sense for models as bulky as these. yeah the faces are underwhelming, but but this is the ideal way to handle kits of this nature
but models like darkoath are a proper step in the other direction. despite not wearing armor, these models still look reasonable (for fantasy barbarians). they don't have their tits obnoxiously out and they're not hyperfeminine for no reason. both these kits get it right in different ways and i hope GW continues following in this trend
Yes the female caricature is annoying, I do like my Stormcast females though like evocators etc nice kits subtle armour differences and no cheese. I can take cheesy on one or two odd models but not on all of it.
I do wish the Darkoath were a bit more restrained in their overly dynamic fighting poses; they're nice enough miniatures, but whenever the poses are so extreme it does tend to lead to duplicate figures really standing out, plus they don't look as good when advancing, behind several lines of friends, or otherwise away from enemies they are meant to be fighting.
I suppose there is also just something specifically off about a pose which one would really only hold for a fraction of a second at the end of a thrust or swing, but now seen in ~half the figures all the time. Especially when some seem a bit unnatural, but they might be better with alternative weapons.
Not a major gripe, just a tarnish on what is obviously a big improvement on the current Marauders. A welcome addition to the range.
Still not sure how I feel about the Croneseer mini. I dig the long cloak and wings, but the hair is too much. Maybe if there were little trinkets and such woven into her hair, it'd break it up a bit, but it just seems overloaded.
Regarding her lore, I love her though. Anything that will knock Morathi down a peg is cool in my book.
nels1031 wrote: Still not sure how I feel about the Croneseer mini. I dig the long cloak and wings, but the hair is too much. Maybe if there were little trinkets and such woven into her hair, it'd break it up a bit, but it just seems overloaded.
Regarding her lore, I love her though. Anything that will knock Morathi down a peg is cool in my book.
I need to get her just for that reason
Myself I dislike Morathi's rules big time finding them boring. Ergo I flat out refuse to use her and have head cannoned my DoK army be anti-morathi rebels aiming to restore Khaine to Khaine's place!
Lord Damocles wrote: I'd like some fish-belly-pale, scrawny, noodle-armed marauders with poor eyesight and bad posture. These guys don't make me feel represented at all!
Get some ghouls, give them Nighthaunt arms and Delaque heads - done. Should look like how you described yourself.
Also hope Wilderfiend or whatever Chaos Spawn with other flavour is fits vanilla CS base size just to have an option. OG is great for bits and you can pull out half decent models with them, but you really are there for said bits.
nels1031 wrote: Still not sure how I feel about the Croneseer mini. I dig the long cloak and wings, but the hair is too much. Maybe if there were little trinkets and such woven into her hair, it'd break it up a bit, but it just seems overloaded.
Not a fan of the hair myself. Of course GW went with the most boring color scheme imaginable. Something a little more colorful might work.
Even if you keep the white hair as a base, it would be in theme to dye it with blood and get a white to pink to red fade.
Lord Damocles wrote: I'd like some fish-belly-pale, scrawny, noodle-armed marauders with poor eyesight and bad posture. These guys don't make me feel represented at all!
I know this is a joke, but I genuinely love it when GW make people with different body types. The slightly chunky standard bearer in this darkoath release? Awesome. Skinny female ghouls with droopy boobs? Amazing. Glutos a big fat man? Love it (and I wish there was more variety of fat and skinny among the slaanesh mortals to highlight extremes). I'm excited for the troll hag to come back with TOW, I kept meaning to buy her but never got round to it before she disappeared from FW. I love her so much.
Lord Damocles wrote: I'd like some fish-belly-pale, scrawny, noodle-armed marauders with poor eyesight and bad posture. These guys don't make me feel represented at all!
Lord Damocles wrote: I'd like some fish-belly-pale, scrawny, noodle-armed marauders with poor eyesight and bad posture. These guys don't make me feel represented at all!
I know this is a joke, but I genuinely love it when GW make people with different body types. The slightly chunky standard bearer in this darkoath release? Awesome. Skinny female ghouls with droopy boobs? Amazing. Glutos a big fat man? Love it (and I wish there was more variety of fat and skinny among the slaanesh mortals to highlight extremes). I'm excited for the troll hag to come back with TOW, I kept meaning to buy her but never got round to it before she disappeared from FW. I love her so much.
I agree with you on multiple body types for Slaanesh - I'd love to see a unit of heavy infantry who are fat wielding great weapons. I don't think fat archers would work based on their fluff as they are constantly on the move - I think a new unit that is prideful combined with a little sloth and gluttony, and they are heavy set dudes with a great weapon.
I was gonna pass on the Crone set, but looking at the basic Witch Elves and knowing GW's character pricing tendencies, it might be a discount offering even if you ignore the ancient Doomfires completely.
Since I can always use more Witch Elves, it's an easy buy for me.
I never wanted this, I never wanted to unleash my stormhosts.
Together we banished the ignorance of the Age of Chaos, but you betrayed me, you betrayed us all.
You stole power from the Gods and lied to your warriors.
Mankind has only one chance to prosper, if you will not seize it then I will.
So let it be war, from the skies of Azyr to the depths of the Eightpoints.
Let the seas boil, let the stars fall.
Though it takes the last piece of my soul, I will see the realms freed once more and if I can not save it from your failure Sigmar, then let the realms burn!
So I just have to endure from now until Novemberish right? That's about as long as GW will torment me doing loads of art, stories, articles and awesome new models for Skaven right?
Overread wrote: So I just have to endure from now until Novemberish right? That's about as long as GW will torment me doing loads of art, stories, articles and awesome new models for Skaven right?
I have a feeling adepticon was meant to be where the Darkoath would have originally revealed. So now it's probably going to be book 6 and whatever else is coming with that.
Overread wrote: So I just have to endure from now until Novemberish right? That's about as long as GW will torment me doing loads of art, stories, articles and awesome new models for Skaven right?
Huh?
Models should be out in June, with a second wave/individual kits probably around September
Overread wrote: So I just have to endure from now until Novemberish right? That's about as long as GW will torment me doing loads of art, stories, articles and awesome new models for Skaven right?
Huh?
Models should be out in June, with a second wave/individual kits probably around September
Yes but there's all the preview period; the leaks (already started); the stuff outside of the models and so forth; which might all start to ease off by the end of the year.
And the torment for me is I just sold all my unbuilt Skaven from the last time they did a big update to AoS and skaven (1.0 proper)
We also have to consider who is claiming the lie. It could be a faction or person is stating that Sigmar is telling lies so its more of a political thing than an outright fully validated lie.
A simple one would be that the Cities of Sigmar are safe havens. That people are safe within them; which leaves the story open for Skaven to erupt underneath one and perhaps even take one of the major cities or at least plunge it into total chaos and destruction.
Which would be a neat opening for a new edition of Stormcast VS Skaven.
Its not just "Sigmar lied", the full quote from WarCom is "Sigmar lied – everything has a price"
The lie that skaven don't exist doesn't make sense then and a lie that the Cities are save only kinda fits. It makes way more sense if its about the reforging process as in "there is no eternal life without a price"
Matrindur wrote:Its not just "Sigmar lied", the full quote from WarCom is "Sigmar lied – everything has a price"
The lie that skaven don't exist doesn't make sense then and a lie that the Cities are save only kinda fits. It makes way more sense if its about the reforging process as in "there is no eternal life without a price"
Could be, it might not seem so much a lie to readers because we tend to be a bit more aware of mechanics of the setting in some respects than characters. Ergo most now have a decent grasp that reforging comes with a cost.
I wonder if this could even be a move toward Stormcast being divided and GW's method of keeping up with models being that they'll steadily create a Fallen Stormcast or a special sect within the Stormcast who are more driven/focused/insane along the path to fighting Chaos and thus use different armour styles and so forth
Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
GaroRobe wrote: Maybe sigmar lied about the existence of skaven just like the empire did
Skaven have never hidden or been unknown in AoS
Yeah its mostly a hold-over from the Old World era and almost an OW meme in how its touted.
AoS skaven have been very overt and active since the very start. Heck the Skaven Pestilens story is one of the books that I recommend for reading as its great fun in the setting and all about a massive fight between Skaven and Stormcast atop a massive walking city
What if Sigmar stole storm-tech from the skaven or cut some sort ofcdeal with them for it? IE it's actually just warp-lightning with the serial numbers filed off? Not unlike how Big E in 40k did similar to Forge the primarchs a d by extension the marines?
Matrindur wrote: Its not just "Sigmar lied", the full quote from WarCom is "Sigmar lied – everything has a price"
The lie that skaven don't exist doesn't make sense then and a lie that the Cities are save only kinda fits. It makes way more sense if its about the reforging process as in "there is no eternal life without a price"
No, no. Its that he made a deal with chaos to make the original 20 Prime Sigmarines, who were scattered across the mortal realms.
He had the Cities built in the places he thought they were hidden or entombed.
Matrindur wrote: Its not just "Sigmar lied", the full quote from WarCom is "Sigmar lied – everything has a price"
The lie that skaven don't exist doesn't make sense then and a lie that the Cities are save only kinda fits. It makes way more sense if its about the reforging process as in "there is no eternal life without a price"
No, no. Its that he made a deal with chaos to make the original 20 Prime Sigmarines, who were scattered across the mortal realms.
He had the Cities built in the places he thought they were hidden or entombed.
I’m guessing it could be a repeat of the Doom of Kavzar.
The Dawnbringer Crusades was about establishing settlements in a wide variety of tepid and dangerous lands with limited resources. Perhaps one or more of the Cities were built with a little “hired help” that wasn’t repaid in kind.
“Everything has a price”, implies someone didn’t want to pay. That’s exactly what happened to Kavzar, and it essentially birthed the Skaven in the Old World.
Matrindur wrote: Its not just "Sigmar lied", the full quote from WarCom is "Sigmar lied – everything has a price"
The lie that skaven don't exist doesn't make sense then and a lie that the Cities are save only kinda fits. It makes way more sense if its about the reforging process as in "there is no eternal life without a price"
There is rumour out claiming stormcast gets chamber of stormcast who have been reforged so many times they can't be reforged again.
Overread wrote: So I just have to endure from now until Novemberish right? That's about as long as GW will torment me doing loads of art, stories, articles and awesome new models for Skaven right?
Doesn't being in Britain also expose you to cheap partworks plasticrack? I think you might be in for a rough time way past November.
Matrindur wrote: Its not just "Sigmar lied", the full quote from WarCom is "Sigmar lied – everything has a price"
I'm going to be so upset if the free cake wasn't free.
Maybe the Skaven will fight stormcasts, that are deteriorating? The price that needs to be payed being sort of nurglish- immortality for the price of disease, stormcasts have their own built in aging system, like cars nowadays. Or thunder warriors in 28k years
Matrindur wrote: Its not just "Sigmar lied", the full quote from WarCom is "Sigmar lied – everything has a price"
The lie that skaven don't exist doesn't make sense then and a lie that the Cities are save only kinda fits. It makes way more sense if its about the reforging process as in "there is no eternal life without a price"
No, no. Its that he made a deal with chaos to make the original 20 Prime Sigmarines, who were scattered across the mortal realms.
He had the Cities built in the places he thought they were hidden or entombed.
Darn it we already have vast armies of Ossiarchs hiding under all the Cities Nagash helped with - now there's Sigprimes hiding under them too? And Skaven?
WAIT Is that where Malarion's army is also hiding? Not in the Realm of Shadow, but sneaking in and hiding in the shadows of the vast Cities of Sigmar as well?
Scottywan82 wrote: In seriousness, I assume it will be the Stormcast starting to really fall apart. Which is neat, but it seems like a strange focus for a starter set.
definitely strange for a starter set, to the point that i'm a bit dubious of that being the lie, or at least, if that's it, there has to be more to it
the launch/starter box rumor is models from the first stormcast release getting redone, so i suspect it's going to tie into that. "stormcast falling apart" can tie into that, but it can't be the whole story
Scottywan82 wrote: In seriousness, I assume it will be the Stormcast starting to really fall apart. Which is neat, but it seems like a strange focus for a starter set.
definitely strange for a starter set, to the point that i'm a bit dubious of that being the lie, or at least, if that's it, there has to be more to it
the launch/starter box rumor is models from the first stormcast release getting redone, so i suspect it's going to tie into that. "stormcast falling apart" can tie into that, but it can't be the whole story
Stormcast falling apart which means brand new improved primaris stormcast, exclusive to the new starter set
What if instead of Stormcast falling apart, its instead Order that falls apart?
A splinter group breaking off that still fight against Chaos, but who have different ideals at the fundamental level and who no longer believe in the Stormcast and Sigmar's grand plan.
This could make Order appear more balanced to outside parties as right now it seems way greater/bigger than the other GA's. Even though its mostly a lore thing, it still skews the product display and a new Grand Alliance could give GW more breathing room on the creative front and the marketing front.
Even with all the backstabbing I could see the likes of the Daughters of Kaine and Stormcast and perhaps even Seraphon breaking away to form their own GA that's focused much more on a die-hard belief of driving out Chaos; whilst other factions might splinter off with a "yes we fight Chaos but we aren't fanatics about it" like the Khadorans.
I'm imagining stormcast being redone to be more grimdark in appearance, with lots of skulls and bones on their armor. The ones in the starter set could be some kind of elite veteran 'no-more-respawns-left' cadre on a suicide mission. Like a Death Company equivalent.
Overread wrote: What if instead of Stormcast falling apart, its instead Order that falls apart?
A splinter group breaking off that still fight against Chaos, but who have different ideals at the fundamental level and who no longer believe in the Stormcast and Sigmar's grand plan.
This could make Order appear more balanced to outside parties as right now it seems way greater/bigger than the other GA's. Even though its mostly a lore thing, it still skews the product display and a new Grand Alliance could give GW more breathing room on the creative front and the marketing front.
Even with all the backstabbing I could see the likes of the Daughters of Kaine and Stormcast and perhaps even Seraphon breaking away to form their own GA that's focused much more on a die-hard belief of driving out Chaos; whilst other factions might splinter off with a "yes we fight Chaos but we aren't fanatics about it" like the Khadorans.
I could see that. I've thought previously that Order/Chaos/Destruction/Death was a bit limiting when Order includes such diverse groups. It would be much easier if there were other factions for groups like DoK and Idoneth separate from CoS and Stormcast. And having a "Disordered" Stormcast group would make sense too.
I can't see GW wanting to split Stormcast over two Grand Alliances. Even with a design change it would seem a bit wasteful on the creative front and could even be confusing to customers (Stormcast are not marines no matter how much GW marketing might wish that they sold as well as them).
Instead I'd more likely expect to see it as a split between those factions that are fanatical anti-chaos and those that are slightly less so and are more just surviving or thriving in other ways.
Hence why I figured you'd see the DoK with the Stormcast. Even though they've backstabbed, the DoK are one of the more dedicated anti-chaos groups in the setting. Same as the Seraphon who almost operate separate from every other faction and whose only motive is battling Chaos.
Ignispacium wrote: I'm imagining stormcast being redone to be more grimdark in appearance, with lots of skulls and bones on their armor. The ones in the starter set could be some kind of elite veteran 'no-more-respawns-left' cadre on a suicide mission. Like a Death Company equivalent.
You're likely to be disappointed.
They're redoing the original stuff into Thunderstrike gear, from what more reliable rumormongers have suggested. The lore, tone, and aesthetic has shifted significantly for the Stormcast Eternals.
I've thought previously that Order/Chaos/Destruction/Death was a bit limiting when Order includes such diverse groups.
Order always seemed like the leftover group to me. Death/Destruction/Chaos are way more coherent. But then again look at 40k where you have Imperium and Chaos, which make sense since they all fight together on their respective sides, and then you have Xenos where the only common ground is that they are, well, xenos. With the exception of GSC and Tyranids no factions in that category belong together but GW still throws them all into a Xenos category because they want to categorize them somehow.
In the same way Order has all the factions that don't fit the other GA with the loose connection of fighting against chaos but its more for webstore categorization than actual lore.
Matrindur wrote: Order always seemed like the leftover group to me. Death/Destruction/Chaos are way more coherent. But then again look at 40k where you have Imperium and Chaos, which make sense since they all fight together on their respective sides, and then you have Xenos where the only common ground is that they are, well, xenos. With the exception of GSC and Tyranids no factions in that category belong together but GW still throws them all into a Xenos category because they want to categorize them somehow.
In the same way Order has all the factions that don't fit the other GA with the loose connection of fighting against chaos but its more for webstore categorization than actual lore.
That was my feeling too. I would love to see GW come up with cleaner lore as the games age and a new edition is a good opportunity to tweak things.
Overread wrote: What if instead of Stormcast falling apart, its instead Order that falls apart?
A splinter group breaking off that still fight against Chaos, but who have different ideals at the fundamental level and who no longer believe in the Stormcast and Sigmar's grand plan.
This could make Order appear more balanced to outside parties as right now it seems way greater/bigger than the other GA's. Even though its mostly a lore thing, it still skews the product display and a new Grand Alliance could give GW more breathing room on the creative front and the marketing front.
Even with all the backstabbing I could see the likes of the Daughters of Kaine and Stormcast and perhaps even Seraphon breaking away to form their own GA that's focused much more on a die-hard belief of driving out Chaos; whilst other factions might splinter off with a "yes we fight Chaos but we aren't fanatics about it" like the Khadorans.
Then how wouid you explain the reforging? A splinter group will still end up back in Azyr anytime they die.
Overread wrote: What if instead of Stormcast falling apart, its instead Order that falls apart?
A splinter group breaking off that still fight against Chaos, but who have different ideals at the fundamental level and who no longer believe in the Stormcast and Sigmar's grand plan.
That's everyone in the Order bucket except Stormcast and Cities of Sigmar.
Overread wrote: What if instead of Stormcast falling apart, its instead Order that falls apart?
A splinter group breaking off that still fight against Chaos, but who have different ideals at the fundamental level and who no longer believe in the Stormcast and Sigmar's grand plan.
This could make Order appear more balanced to outside parties as right now it seems way greater/bigger than the other GA's. Even though its mostly a lore thing, it still skews the product display and a new Grand Alliance could give GW more breathing room on the creative front and the marketing front.
Even with all the backstabbing I could see the likes of the Daughters of Kaine and Stormcast and perhaps even Seraphon breaking away to form their own GA that's focused much more on a die-hard belief of driving out Chaos; whilst other factions might splinter off with a "yes we fight Chaos but we aren't fanatics about it" like the Khadorans.
Then how wouid you explain the reforging? A splinter group will still end up back in Azyr anytime they die.
Stormcast remain a single faction. The splintering is whole factions separating from Order.
That said Stormcast splintering into two factions could happen; but it might be that the group that splinters off has only 1 life to do what they want before they get trapped in a lightning vault. Which in itself could lead to all kinds of stories if the vault got too full or broke or the stormcast snuck their way back in to shatter the vault open. Perhaps having to turn to other gods to be reforged. However that I think is possible, but leads down a huge complicated pathway that I don't think GW would follow.
Automatically Appended Next Post: OSSIARCH GOODEST BOY
Mr_Rose wrote: Isn’t there that one Stormcast who turned?
Eternus was a Stormcast turned by Belakor, but there's also a number of Stormcast that used to be Chaos Worshippers in life.
.
Eternus was a Varanguard who turned against Archaon.
My mistake, I was misinformed by someone.
I believe that was the rumor when the guy was teased, to be fair.
He is linked to Stormcast in that when he turned coat against Archaon, he was thrown into the Cursed Skies where Stormcast souls can't escape, and they fried him. Belakor brought him back to life and some of the Stormcast souls are infused with him, giving him the ability to respawn like a SCE.
I believe the closest we got to a traitor SCE was in the Soul Wars novel, where Nagash captured one and turned him. Sigmar would obliterate him completely after he was defeated.
Gideon asked about the roadmap. That was the most recent one I'm aware of.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Ok so it's death vs a toss up. The conspiracy side of me says it's going to be Skaven. As another lead in to 4th.
Given that they've been (no pun intended) fleshing out the various factions, I think that it's still going to be an Order set. The Kurnothi are hunting Bonereapers in Ghur, per one of the stories we had...and it would be a good little setup.
a new grand alliance splitting from order could be neat. throw the more dubiously moral factions like DoK and Idoneth in there, i can see how it would work
Ignispacium wrote: I'm imagining stormcast being redone to be more grimdark in appearance, with lots of skulls and bones on their armor. The ones in the starter set could be some kind of elite veteran 'no-more-respawns-left' cadre on a suicide mission. Like a Death Company equivalent.
new stormcast would probably be in line with the ones from Dominion, rather than a new reimagining
new stormcast would probably be in line with the ones from Dominion, rather than a new reimagining
I also can't really see them suddenly turning Death Company since the Stormcast just had to deal with facing their potential mortality before Stormstrike armor was developed and basically just treated is as another thing to deal with. It's a large sub-plot of the Kragnos novel, even.
Rebellion sounds better, of the two. "anarchy" is too closely tied to mass pandemonium or extremists with bombs in people's minds for it to work here, i think. Rebellion has more neutral associations
xttz wrote: The GW warehouse has gremlins again...
Spoiler:
And I'm sure we all have that friend which will claim these are intentional leaks
I suspect some are, though considering we don't get as many as we used too I get a feeling GW might have dropped that marketing angle somewhat. So most likely its not intentional; though GW "roll" with the punches now more than fight against them in the open than they used too. So chances are they'll roll with this in public and then if its not intentional, try and find who the leaker is and punish in private.
It is AOS so stupid = copyrighted names always take precedence
I became much more OK with that particular term when I realized it's in-setting humans using certain terminology for perceived 'abhuman' species; gor, ungor, centigor, tzaangor, ogor, etc.
Alpharius wrote: Are Chaos Dwarves 'confirmed' for the new edition?
Our resident rumour monger who has a near 100% success rate essentially said yes. So take it as you will.
What and where is this tidbit?
Well full context it the youtuber Rob of Honest Wargamer making statement about TOW & AOS stuff that pertain why some faction are a core race and why are legacy and that comes down to the legacy faction are heavly going to (or have) been updated to AOS, he talk about how Skaven are going to be the 4th edition faction, Beast of Chaos are going to do a full exodus to TOW and that at some point in 4 edition the chaos duardin or dwarf or dawi whatever are coming.
Whitefang the insider of the TGA forums who been generating the rumor mill to might as well be factual leak at this point supported the chaos dwarf statement
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh a speaking of rumor from TGA the guy who leaked the leaked unit and blurry rat head SG Warhound claimed what the skaven going to get
(spoiler for those who don't want it i guess
Spoiler:
Danger
-Plague Censer Bearer
-Giant rat
-Rat swarm
-Gutter runner
New
-Warlord
-Behemoth
-Verminlord
-Artillery (Which might be the leak unit possibly call The Hyper warp rattling cannonade)
-Warlock
-Galvaneer with warpvolt obliterator
-Wolfrats
and a vague message of
A magnificent warrior with black-fur
A warlord with crimson armor and trophy rack
Has an unnaturally loyal and obedient personal bodyguard regiments
Nice broad net of Verminus, Skryre, and Moulder. Hopefully the new behemoth is a spiritual successor to the Brood Horror.
Little disappointed by Pestilens and Eshin actively losing units without gaining anything, I didn't think it was possible for those ranges to be in a worse position.
Is there anything more specific on the apparent new Verminlord? I assume a new character rather than a replacement for the existing kit?
Tim the Biovore wrote: Nice broad net of Verminus, Skryre, and Moulder. Hopefully the new behemoth is a spiritual successor to the Brood Horror.
Little disappointed by Pestilens and Eshin actively losing units without gaining anything, I didn't think it was possible for those ranges to be in a worse position.
Is there anything more specific on the apparent new Verminlord? I assume a new character rather than a replacement for the existing kit?
Don't really know the lore behind the Verminlords but is there a reason Moulder and Skyre don't have one? If not it could be for those, either a completely new one or a upgrade sprue for the old one. Would make sense if they, together with Verminus, are the focus of this update
Tim the Biovore wrote: Nice broad net of Verminus, Skryre, and Moulder. Hopefully the new behemoth is a spiritual successor to the Brood Horror.
Little disappointed by Pestilens and Eshin actively losing units without gaining anything, I didn't think it was possible for those ranges to be in a worse position.
Is there anything more specific on the apparent new Verminlord? I assume a new character rather than a replacement for the existing kit?
Don't really know the lore behind the Verminlords but is there a reason Moulder and Skyre don't have one? If not it could be for those, either a completely new one or a upgrade sprue for the old one. Would make sense if they, together with Verminus, are the focus of this update
I believe there has been a Skryre Verminlord at some point in the past, but I see the general lack of them stemming from those two Clans being more "scientifically" oriented. They all venerate the Great Horned Rat, but daemons are supposed embody the concepts and ideals of the cultures that spawned them, and "We make monstrosities of the flesh for fun and profit" and "We jam as much warpstone into a metal frame as possible to see what happens" aren't really philosophies suited to creating daemons. Tabletop-wise, I suppose they have Verminlord equivalents in Hellpit Abominations (and Brood Horrors at one time) and to a lesser extent Boneripper (plus the Warp Lightning Cannon also feels like the pinnacle of Skryre philosophy made real).
That said, the Verminlord kit was an End Times product but still firmly rooted in The World That Was, and the focus on Skryre in the less restricted Mortal Realms does open up the possibility of introducing a biomechanical daemon engine Verminlord. A Moulder Verminlord feels like a harder sell, they're quite arrogant beings, and the horrific shambling flesh golems typical of the Clan "live"(?) a quite unenviable existence.
Huh, neat! That could be a cool aesthetic for a lot of figures. I do hope they give options for "complete" wings (or whatever other pieces they do this for) in addition to the "ruined" ones.
I don't think those are "ruined" so much as they are "magic"? They have a bit of an ethereal look to them...which fits better with how they were described.
Kanluwen wrote: I don't think those are "ruined" so much as they are "magic"? They have a bit of an ethereal look to them...which fits better with how they were described.
lord_blackfang wrote: That's definitely a leak and not intentional GW marketing, only a true leaker would post a tiny bit of one model rather than the whole thing!
To be fair, if the true leaker happens to be a troll, this is the exact kind of leak we should expect.
Kanluwen wrote: I don't think those are "ruined" so much as they are "magic"? They have a bit of an ethereal look to them...which fits better with how they were described.
Ruination chamber
Yes, and?
Ruination is the action of ruining someone or something or of being ruined.
The dude on the leaked cover sure as heck doesn't look to fit the "being ruined" definition.
The previous Chambers have been more about preserving mortals and Sigmar's ideas. Might be some purgin' getting ready to happen.
Tim the Biovore wrote: Nice broad net of Verminus, Skryre, and Moulder. Hopefully the new behemoth is a spiritual successor to the Brood Horror.
Little disappointed by Pestilens and Eshin actively losing units without gaining anything, I didn't think it was possible for those ranges to be in a worse position.
Is there anything more specific on the apparent new Verminlord? I assume a new character rather than a replacement for the existing kit?
Don't really know the lore behind the Verminlords but is there a reason Moulder and Skyre don't have one? If not it could be for those, either a completely new one or a upgrade sprue for the old one. Would make sense if they, together with Verminus, are the focus of this update
I believe there has been a Skryre Verminlord at some point in the past, but I see the general lack of them stemming from those two Clans being more "scientifically" oriented. They all venerate the Great Horned Rat, but daemons are supposed embody the concepts and ideals of the cultures that spawned them, and "We make monstrosities of the flesh for fun and profit" and "We jam as much warpstone into a metal frame as possible to see what happens" aren't really philosophies suited to creating daemons. Tabletop-wise, I suppose they have Verminlord equivalents in Hellpit Abominations (and Brood Horrors at one time) and to a lesser extent Boneripper (plus the Warp Lightning Cannon also feels like the pinnacle of Skryre philosophy made real).
That said, the Verminlord kit was an End Times product but still firmly rooted in The World That Was, and the focus on Skryre in the less restricted Mortal Realms does open up the possibility of introducing a biomechanical daemon engine Verminlord. A Moulder Verminlord feels like a harder sell, they're quite arrogant beings, and the horrific shambling flesh golems typical of the
Clan "live"(?) a quite unenviable existence.
On the other hand, Skreech Verminking can draw upon the specializations of Skryre & Moulder so it is obviously possible for Verminlords to do so. Who knows?
So where does warpstone come from in AoS? Does it just coalesce from residual chaos energies? Is there some not-Morrslieb hurtling through the realms' skies, sprinkling rat coke along the way?
I'm not sure MOAR Stormcast would be novel and interesting enough to catch attention.
I really felt like the "Sigmar Lied" catchphrase implies some sort of corruption or problem. It could mean just "oh yeah Skaven exist" but as others pointed out that's not as much of a revelation in AoS as it is in The Olde Worlde.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: I'm not sure MOAR Stormcast would be novel and interesting enough to catch attention.
I really felt like the "Sigmar Lied" catchphrase implies some sort of corruption or problem. It could mean just "oh yeah Skaven exist" but as others pointed out that's not as much of a revelation in AoS as it is in The Olde Worlde.
There is some sense to bringing the 1st and 2nd ed models up to the same standard the 3rd ed models set. Sigmarines used to look wide. Now they have actual human proportions. GW would deal with a portion of its potential customers who'll stay away from older Sigmarines just as there are people who can't stand old Marine proportions now that Primaris set a way better standard. It's a problem that could use a fix, and we have enough to go on that this is actually happening.
As for Sigmar Lied (which is German and translates to song of Sigmar, so you're all misinterpreting that anyway ), Sigmarines already got some grimdarkening in their 2nd ed battletome where the writers tacked on a theme of oppression of order. Sigmarines don't have to fall to Death or Chaos to have the facade of shiny defenders tarnished. GW could easily drive along that thread without dropping the clean and gleaming appearance of the models.
I like to think this could be a representation of reforging's that have gone too far. The ripping and tearing of the soul actually manifesting visually on the body.
Next image, this time we have one of the new Liberators. And sadly it still has that nose ridge that we already saw in Realms of Ruin that I really don't like:
) It is funny that the evil forces of Chaos are more progressive in this than elves are, though! 
