I'm heading to the NOVA Open GT, 8 games of awesome. I'm bringing my Farsight Enclave and will endeavor to snap at least a few pictures of each game I play and write up some battle reports of each game as I did for the Renegade Open GT last year.
Allied Detachment: Tau Empire
HQ 220 Allied Commander(?) +Drone Controller(?) +Vectored Retro Thrusters(?) +Stimulant Injector(?) +Shield Generator(?) +Iridium Battlesuit(?) +Onager Guantlet(?) +Puretide Engram Neurochip(?) +Command and Control Node(?) +Multi-Spectrum Sensor Suite(?) +Neuroweb System Jammer(?)
Troops
54 Allied Fire Warrior Team x6
Allied Tau Empire Detachment Total 274pts
Army Total: 1849/1850
Game 1
Spoiler:
Opponent: Kayley Whalen
Army: Tyranids/Tyranids
3xFlyrant, 2xCrone, Tervigon, 2x Zoanthrope, Lots of Gaunts, Gargoyles
Mission: 6 Objectives, Tyranids Progressive Scoring, Farsight Engame Scoring
Secondsaries: Tyranids(1st Blood?, Marked for Death(Straight On Single TLMP Suit, and Slay the Warlord?), Farsight(First Blood, Slay the Warlord, Marked for Death(Warlord))
Deployment: Dawn of War
1st Turn: Tyranids
Warlord Traits: Tyranids(-1 Reserves), Farsight(+1 Seize, Reroll Reserves)
Nightfight: No
Pregame Thoughts: Well, its Bugs with 5 FMCs. I am extremely glad I sprung for the Velocity Trackers, and very happy I have HBCTides instead of 2:1 Ion Accelerators. My plan is to deny first blood, pick it up and work on maxing secondaries.
1st Turn: Tyranids
Deployment: Dawn of War
Well my opponent did get first turn and chose progressive scoring. We had a miscommunication after first turn, and even though she had declared Blitz, I believed her when she meant Maginot. Cost me giving 1 VP up early, but wasn't a deal. She deployed kind of spread out to gobble up the objectives and rack up the points. Four FMCs and the Tervigon and Venomthrope to my Right, Warlord out of LoS to my far left.
I deployed to my Right, planning on sweeping to my left and keeping the mass of bugs on the right at a distance before scrambling and using my reserves to strike hard and drop behind for more Objectives.
Seize the Initiative: Yes! My Warlord Trait was worth its weight in gold here as I siezed on a 5.
Farsight Turn 1
I use my Twinlinked Ignores Cover Monster Hunting Targetlocked Deathstar to drop the Venomthrope with just my Commander, then split two off and killed one Crone, hurting the other, and lighting a Flyrant up like a Christmas Tree. Then I used my HBCs to drop the wounded Hive Crone, and then got lucky with my IA Riptide and my Earth Caste HBC dropping the marked Flyrant.
When the dust settles I've dropped the Venomthrope and 3FMCs scoring first blood with the Venomthrope and subsequently removing the Ruins 2+ Cover save.
Tyranids Turn 1
Tervigon spawns 14 Gribblies and the Bugs advanced trying to jump on as many objectives as possible for a 3pt Turn 2. Marked for Death Warlord hides, Bug do zero damage to my army. Tyranids psychics were pretty successful with FNP for just about everyone.
Farsight Turn 2
Well, I need to limit how many objectives my opponent can hold and how quickly they can tick up VPs. I bring on a good number of my reserves thanks to being able to reroll the failures including my Burst Squad, Firewarriors, and a Fusion unit. I use my rerolls to keep my marked for death Solo Suit off the table. I nuke the Tervigon and consequently some of the surrounding Gribblies. This removes my opponent's last synapse on the far right causing thier army to crumble. My Dual Burst unit does what it does best and throws a bucket full of dice at the Gribblies, and kill one unit off the Objective. HBC Riptide kills some Gargoyles, then my IA Riptide kills just enough to deny my opponent that objective.
Tyranids Turn 2
The game is moving a bit slowly mainly due to the number of gribblies that need to be moved around the table so I offer to help move backline models to speed up play offering to conceded any dispute about a model I moved. My opponent scores 2 VPs. She moves around, uses Flyrants to regain synapse, and puts the Warlord in a vulnerable spot swooping with FNP. My opponent ops to fall back and try and rack up points for future turns instead of trying to directly confront my massed firepower. I lose a single Dual Fusion suit to firing and maybe a model somewhere else.
Farsight Turn 3
I again manage to keep my Marked for Death unit off the table. Despite a metric asston of firepower, the Warlord does not die with a single wound remaining. My army pacmans accross the board and secures more objective and a strong central position evaporation units as it goes.
Tyranids Turn 3
Warlord Flies off the Table and she racks up one more VP. Last Flyrant on the board does a bit of damage and the gribblies move around to try and hold objectives for another turn.
Farsight Turn 4
Damn, warlord is not on the table, so I can't rack up my 4 BP. But, I kill most of their OS units and scramble on enough objectives and kill them off enough others to mean they will not earn any more BP this game. During the end of my turn the Finish last turn warning is delivered.
Tyranids Turn 4
As it was massively to my opponenets benefit we decide to shake hands and I give her best possible outcome for turn 4. Warlord Flies on, kills one unit off the objective and contests one other.
Game ends with Tyranids having racked up 3BP on Primaries, 0 on Secondaries. I end up with 2x2 Primaries and 4BP on Secondaries for an 8-3 Victory. Had we played a turn 5 I would possibly have tabled my opponent and at the very least taken out the Warlord despite where it flew on and racked up at least two more Objectives for a 14/15-3 Victory.
Post Game Thoughts: This was a fun game, seizing the initiative was horribly unfortunate for my opponent as has that not happened I would have killed one fewer FMC and my opponent could have boxed me in and got their Psychic defenses powered up. Progressive Scoring definitely was a hugey in her favor, but the shere amount of quality firepower I had on the table was going to remove too many units too quickly.
My opponent went on to 1-3 in her first 4 games, I saw a nasty game against a 5 Knight army at one point, then she went on to win Bracket 10.
Game 2
Spoiler:
Opponent: Bryan Delvalle
Army: Space Marines(Iron Hands)/Imperial Knights
Librarian, 3x Tac in Rhinos, 6 Grav Cents, 2xVindicators, and Imperial Knight Paladin
Mission: 6 Objectives, d3 Worth, Endgame Scoring
Secondaries: Space Marines(Linebreaker, First Blood, Slay the Warlord), Farsight(First Blood, Slay the Warlord, Marked for Death(Warlord))
1st Turn: Space Marines
Nightfight: Yes
Pregame Thoughts: Well, its a Knight and 6 Grav Cents, and 2 Vindicators with some MSU scoring. Luckily its Hammer and Anvil and the objectives favor my corner and my opponent only has a 1pt in his far corner. I've marked his Librarian Warlord for Death, hopefully he'll be more careful with it and keep that grav away from me. My plan is to drop the Knight Turn 2 after dragging it through the Difficult Terrain, keep the Vindicators and Grav Cents out of range, elminate his mobility and Vindicators, then rush forward faster than the Grav can kill me to take all the Objectives.
Deployment: Hammer and Anvil
Well, my opponent deployed as closely as he can. I'm not quite sure why he deployed his Grav Cents behind the Ruins. He could have deployed them to at least one side and avoided movement penalties as the cost of making it easier to kite them around the LOS blocking terrain.
Seize the Initiative: No!
Space Marine Turn 1
Everything advances, he scores 1 wounds through my BuffCommander after immobilizing a Rhino the far left. Interestingly enough my entire army started 31" away from his Vindicators and his Grav Cents.
Farsight Turn 1
Everything powers up, I immobilize one Vindicator, wreck a Rhino for First blood, and drop 2 HP off the Knight.
Space Marine Turn 2
Again everything advances. Again my entire army is 31" away from his and only the Knight can fire getting another wound through my BuffCommander.
Farsight Turn 2
I drop the Knight, Drop the mobile Vindicator, and still stay out of range of the Grav Cents. here I got ballsy. I dropped two Dual Fusion suits out to his right, even with a scatter his Librarian is still the closest target. I marked the crap out the unit so I was firing four ignores cover BS5 Fusion Blasters. Alas, he does fail a look out sir, but manages to make his 5++. Almost a 4VP gamble.
Space Marine Turn 3
My opponent hunkers down with the Grav Cents in the Ruins on the 3pt objective. Nukes my Dual Fusion squad, and shuffles. The Vindicator again has no targets in range.
Farsight Turn 3
More reserves come in including my Dual Burst Squad, I drop them aggressively and take out a lot of Tac Marines combined with the rest of my army's firepower. My army advances and I believe I drop another Grav Cent and wounded 1? other. I am unable to really get the Burst Suits out of the line of fire and they get sacrificed to the Grav Gods as bait.
Space Marine Turn 4
My opponent does what he can, but he has so little on the table. He bunkers down on the Grav and tries to deny me points by keeping his Librarian alive. He does manage to completely nuke my Dual Burst Squad.
Farsight Turn 4
All but one of his relevant tacticals die, and I maneuver for the win.
We decide to end the game here. We got a late start due to a pairing mistake, I got marked as a Loss game one and my opponent a Win, so that took a bit to sort out, yay for data entry errors. The game is a foregone conclusion barring some luck, I've got plenty of Objective Secured to steal the three point objective, and I've got most of the other High point objectives. My opponenet has only 11 Tactical Marines left, 4 Grav Cents, and a Librarian, I've got everything except one unit of Dual Fusions and my Dual Burst Suits.
8-0 Win as I am again denied my Marked for Death Warlord.
Post Game Thoughts: Well, deployment pretty much decided this one. Hammer and Anvil meant I could avoid taking damage the first to turns from his heavy hitters. My army doesn't find Knights very scary, so that wasn't a problem either. Once the Knight fell and I eliminated all of his ability to press for my Deployment Zone the game was a foregone conclusion turn 2. Bryan was an awesome guy and the game was an absolute blast. Bryan would go on to 7th in Bracket 6.
Game 3
Spoiler:
Opponent: Tom Ogden
Army: Eldar/Eldar
Farseer on Bike, Shadowseer, 3xDAVU Serpents with Holofields, 2x3 Scatter Walkers, 2xWraithknihgts, Crimson Hunter
Mission: Kill Point
Secondaries: Eldar(First Blood, Linebreaker, ?). Tau(First Blood, Linebreaker, Strike the Rank and File(Kill Troops))
Warlord Trait: Eldar(Master of Ambush), Farsight(Reroll Reserves, +1 Sieze)
1st Turn: Eldar
Nightfight: Yes
Pregame Thoughts: Well Crap, him having Infiltrate and first turn is a serious problem, but otherwise my army matches up very well against Eldar and in KPs I shouldn't have trouble racking up more VPs and I shouldn't give up First Blood either. I'm worried about the Wraithknights, and really need to Sieze the Initiative to make this an easy game. Without it, It'll be close but I'm pretty confident that I can take the list down in KPs. If I can draw his army to the Corner, I should be able to bring on my squishier KPs on the far side of the table and hid them without giving any of them up. I've basically put 6 KPs on the table, and if I keep everything but my Fusions away I'm only risking 8KP against his 13KP.
Deployment
Nothing Crazy. The next day we were talking about this, my opponent insists that I won the roll for first turn and made him go first but that would have been suicidal with him having Master of Ambush. But, hey. It was the third game in one day at NOVA, your brain is definitely fuzzy by that stage.
Deployment after Scout and Infiltrate
He deploys both Wriathknights fairly far back, he could have deployed them closer with Infiltrate by a few inches. I think his original plan was to get into a firefight, which is not a good idea against my Farsight.
Seize: No!!!
Eldar Turn 1
My opponent makes a huge mistake here. With Infiltrate and Scout deployments, my opponent forgets to move up his Wriathknight. He fortunes the closest Wraithknight, and moves his Warwalkers into range. After butckets of dice(Twinlinked ScatterWalkers) I end up with a few wounds sprinkled around, maybe two three on two Riptides. The Heavy Wraithcannons fail to distort any Riptides. He opted to fire the Wraithknights at my Tides as any shots at my BuffCommander would have been LOSed to a Drone with cover. Still may have been a better option, but, my opponent didn't like the odds.
Farsight Turn 1
Well, since my opponent forgot to move his Wraithknights, I no longer need to kill one of them this turn like I was planning. I Instead shuffle around, take out a unit of WarWalkers for First blood, one Wave Serpent, and I believe I Immobilized another Walker. I shuffle around in the Assault Phase to draw more of his army to the corner.
2-0KP
Eldar Turn 2
His Hunter comes on. Wraithknights move up. Again, his shooting isn't very effective. S6/7 bounces off my 2+/FNP units. My IA tide stays away form the Scatters all game. Wraithknights again sprinkle wounds to the Riptides. Again he Fortunes the clostes Wraithknight.
2-0KP
Farsight Turn 2
With reroll Reserves I really bring the pain this turn. I DS the Dual Burst within range of his hiding Warlord to the right. Both Dual Fusions land close enough to have range to the nonFortuned Wraithknight. Both Solo Suits walk on with range to his Warlord and his Crimson Hunter. Firewarriors walk on towards the corner as far from the action as possible as they are KP liability.
When the dust settles I finish off both remaining Wave Serpents, and use the Markerlights and the Riptides to drop the leftmost Wraithknight. I also drop his BikeSeer with my Dual Burst Suits. My Solo Suits take their pop shots at the Hunter to no avail.
And then my big Shooting Deathstar rolls a 3 on their Jetpack assault moves giving his Wraithknight the perfect charge. I move everything else into a huge overwatch block and try to block off the potential charge. I guess luck is making up for him forgetting to move them Turn 1, I'll need to survive the assault and Hit and Run out of the Combat.
5-0 KP
Eldar Turn 3
Well, he does his thing, shoots what he can, and moves the Wraithknight up to assault. I believe he kills the Ritpide that was down to a single wound and kills two of the Fusion Suits. He makes the assault, but not until I deal a whopping 5 Wounds to the Wraithknight. It makes it into assault and only manages to deal 2-3 wounds, I make my Leadership 7/8 and hold. Actually, my onager gauntlet hit and rolled a 1 to wound and all of my 10 S5 attacks bounced off. And here I forget to Hit and Run out of Combat! Big mistake.
5-2 KP
Farsight Turn 3
Well, I make Shooting Deathstar Stubborn and continue to forget to Hit and Run out of Combat. Either way I begin cleanup duty on the board and don't pick up any KP in this turn. He kills 2 Drones in combat and I forget to Hit and Run out, again. Again, his Wratihknight keep shis last wound as I can't seem to wound him or he makes his armors.
Eldar Turn 4
His army has almost no firepower left, he batttlefocuses around to pick on the Riptides to no avail. Crismon Hunter plinks at one Riptide as well but after having been forced to Jink its damage output is nill.
In combat my Onager Guantlet finally connects after losing a drone or two and I kill the Wraithknight.
6-2 KP
Farsight Turn 4
Having my Shooting Deathster free I kill the Spiritseer and two of the squads of Dire Avengers leaving only on eon the table. I also kill the Scatter Walkers down a single Immobilized Walker left. We call the game here as I will table him on 5 and he has virtually no chance of earning any more KPs.
13-2 KP, I achieved Linebreaker, First Blood, and Strike the Rank and file for a 15-0 Victory.
Post Game Thought: Man, I got very unlucky with him getting Master of Ambush and first turn, and equally lucky by him forgetting to move his Wraithknights Turn 1. I then got very unlucky on my Jetpack Assault move to get very lucky on my Overwatch damage and making my LD7 check. I had 4 Fusion Blasters, 2-3 Twinlinked Fusion Blasters, lots of HBC shots, 16 Missile Shots, and 8 Markerlight shots on my Overwatch. Had he remembered that, it would have been much closer. I don't think he would have been able to win, but I wouldn't have been able to table him. I really needed to remember I had Hit and Run on my BuffCommander.
Tom was a stellar opponent and proceeded to do very well at NOVA, taking 2nd in Bracket 2 for 18th overall.
Game 4
Spoiler:
Opponent: Joseph Harmon
Army: CSM(Crimson Slaughter)/Daemons
Bike Lord
Bike Sorcerer
6xSpawn
2x10 Cultists
2xMaulerfiends
Juggy Lord(Axe of Khorne)
Herald of Tzeentch
Herald of Tzeentch
2x16? Horrors
19x Khorne Hounds
Mission: Relic/Objectives
Secondaries: CSM(Moment of Bloodshed(Kill 3 Units in one turn), Linebreaker, ?), Farsight(Moment of Bloodshed, FirstBlood, Linebreaker)
Warlord Traits: CSM(Master of Ambush), Farsight(Master of Ambush)
1st Turn: Farsight
Pregame Thoughts: Ouch. This is a very fast assault list with four major melee threats, 2x Maulerfiends, the Hounds with Lord, and the Spawnstar backed up with a fair amount of Daemon Summoning. At least I'm likely to get two turns to shoot him, us both having Master of Ambush hurts as he has guarenteed Turn 2 Assaults with both the Hounds and the Spawnstar. Did I mention I hate Daemons and Psyker heavy armies. It takes forever to roll everything up, and its an absolute pain in the ass to keep everything straight. And then you summon Daemons which takes even more time.
Deployment: Vanguard
He keeps his Spawn unit to Infiltrate while I Infiltrate my MPCrisis Squad with Commanders and one Riptide. I put two Riptides down centrally, then win the Infiltrate roll forcing him to deploy Infiltrates first. I deploy almost everything centrally.
Seize: No. That is a relief, if he seized game was over.
Farsight Turn 1
I shift towards his long board edge. I take out the Top Maulerfiend for 1st Blood, then devote as much firepower as I can muster into killing quite a few hounds. I had one or two Failed Nova Reactor rolls on my Riptides this turn which took a bit out of their bite.
Chaos Turn 1
Everything advances. He summons two more Heralds.
Farsight Turn 2
All of my reserves come in. One squad of Dual Fusions gets eaten by the Warp after a Mishap. I manage to snip both summoned Heralds and after devoting most of my firepower to it manage to take out second Maulerfiend for my Moment of Bloodshed. I kill two Spawn and put a wound on his Lord. My DSing Dual Bursts take out quite a bit of one unit of Horrors. Again this turn at least one of my Riptides had reduced firepower due to the Nova Reactor failing. I believe it was 3/4 fails on the Non Earth Caste. Either way, I get ready for what is going to be a nasty assault.
Chaos Turn 2
He advances and one unit of Cultists arrive, summons Hounds to the North and Plague Drones on top of the Relic. Here he Dark Flames my Dual Burst Squads twice, due to come confusion he fired two S5 AP3 Torrent Dark Flames instead of two S4 AP5. The squad is wiped out, in retrospect looking at it he must have been confused about the particular power and I should have looked as losing that squad in his deployment zone was a pretty big deal. I didn't question it because when I asked about the power at rolling, that is what he said it was.
He assaults into two Riptides with the Spawn, one is the ECPA. When the Dust settle I only lose combat by 1? and make Leadership. The Spawn bounced off the 2+ as did his Lord, and his Sorcerer had to contend with 5++ and FNP. The Riptides Hold.
His Hound/Juggy unit assaults into my Shooting Deathstar and takes four wounds in overwatch between the unit and the Riptide supporting fire. The Hounds roll a total of 17 wounds and I fail 2 armor saves, and make one FNP. The Juggy Lord gets to attack Drones and Suits and deals 4 wounds. In return I dealt a total of 4 wounds. Or maybe the he got 2 Wounds through my Commander, either way I make my LD 9, then make my Hit and Run out of Combat jumping over the combat with 10".
Farsight Turn 3
We end up having a rules debate about how the Relic is held etc with Objective Secured. BAsically, even if he is holding it, I can still control it with my OS units. I press forward, take out one Plague Drone and choose Stubborn for my Shooting Deathstar knowing that he basically can't wipe them and I'll still have Hit and Run for the next turn. I take out one Plague Drone and maybe more Hounds and set my Fusion suits right next to the Relic knowing that I need to contest them the next turn and plan on assauting the Plauge Drones hoping to hold the next turn.
Riptides, this time with a 3++(I was hoping for either a 3++ or to drop 1 of the 2 remaining wounds off the IA Riptide. They hold yet again this turn.
Chaos Turn 3
He summons more hounds and possibly/probably something else.
He declares an assault with the Plague Drones against my Fusions suits. I roll my attacks and end up punching 2 wounds through onto them. Now this is where the "finish your game turn" warning arrives. It catches us both completely off guard especially a all he would have needed to do was Jetpack assault away with the Relic to win and now that he declared the assault I have a good chance of denying him the Relic. The Drones attack and I end up making all or all but one of my saves and win combat which means the Relic is mine. he rolls Demonic Instability and rolls boxcars, adding insult to injury.
He assaults into my Shooting Deathstar again with both the Cultists and the Hournds, and ends up drawing combat or I make my Ld10. I then Hit and run out again, only 7" and can't make Linebreaker.
He finally wipes both Riptides and consolidates onto the Objective. He kills off a lone suit in assault but doesn't get far enough to deny me the 1pt objective near my bottom right.
The game ends 10-8.
Post Game Thoughts: I really don't remember this game only going 3 turns, i would have sword we played four and time got called during the bottom of 4. I may have forgotten to take two pictures, because it just doesn't seem like we only played 3 turns. It was a brutal game and I was getting my ass handed to me. The Dark Flame mistake kind of hurt, as it would have just bounced off that unit instead of wiping it which would have given me one of two of his home objectives and taken out some of his Summoning. Otherwise it was a fantastic game and we both enjoyed ourselve each giving the other full sportsmanship. I still think we played four turns and I'm just missing two, but I could be wrong. My opponent went on to do well, taking 4th in Bracket 2 for 20th overall.
With that win I'm now 4-0 and guaranteed a spot in Bracket 1 against the other undefeated players and the best 3-1s in the tournament.
Pregame Thoughts: Well, this isn't so good. I can handle FMCs pretty well, but I'm worried about summoning in the backfield on a quarters mission. He's got great powers and gifts, literally Fateweaver will havea 2++ Rerollable all game and all of his princes will have a 2+ Cover Save with either IronArm or 4+FNP. And he gets to go first. But, the biggest and scariest problem is that he has Enfeeble which makes my BuffCommander not so Tankish. I have Master of Ambush which is great, unfortunately he has first turn so I can't nuke the Enfeeble Prince or anything else before his defenses get up and going. My goal is to just rack up points, and try and drop in his backfield late game. If I can take out a couple of princes, I can put alot of point in quarters late game and rack some points up early, but its not looking good. This is the guy that beat Reece and his Adamantine Lance Game 4. If the princes his assault, I lose as they all have Instant death, Fleshbane, or Ironarm.
Deployment
He hides anything. Its my second game in a row on this table, and that LoS blocking terrain is fricken massive. It caused issues last game, and this game is no different. I deploy evenly in my backfield trying to rack up some points with units with most everything in reserves, yet again.
Seize: No!!!
Daemons Turn 1
Well, he flies up, Enfeebles my Shooty Deathstar, rolls up 8 Strength on his powers and hits the unit hard. I have to LOS away everything to keep my BuffCommander alive and it takes out most of my buffer drones. Then after a reroll of the Warp Storm he hits the unit for a gob of Strenght 6 which kills more drones etc. Then he fires a lance at the unit and I've got either a 4++ or ID on my BuffCommander or I can LoS it to my Warlord with no save. The BuffCommander fails his 4++ and I've lost my only chance to take out any of his FMCs. Yep, I lost the game before I ever got to move a model.
Farsight Turn 1
Well, I shift around, set up to get a couple of points. I put all of my shooting into his softest target, a T8 2+ Cover Daemon Prince and drop it down a ways, then he rerolls his grouding check thanks to Fateweaver and grounds the FMC so it can assault Turn 2.
And that is basically game, we half ass go through turn 2, but I have zero chance of winning and he half hearted starts summoning in the background. I'll rack up some points, but have absolutely no way of winning the game and we call it early as its a foregone conclusion.
Postgame Thoughts: Yep, that was the worst 40k beating I think I can ever recall. Everything went his way, and nothing went my way and the game was over before my half of Turn 1. Had he not had Enfeeble, or had I had the ability to shoot the Enfeeble prince the game would have been much closer, but as it stands, his Alpha Strike won the game and there was absolutely nothing I could do about it. FMCs move 24", Enfeeble is 24" with more successes than I had dice, and then the Warp Storm pointing the unit with ID goodness was just icing on the cake. My opponent was awesome, but wow that was not pretty. Welcome to the top Bracket at NOVA,! The bucket on the left is for your tears and will be drunk by the overall winner.
Two games in a row on table 6 against Daemons and Psychic heavy armies, I'm getting sick of watching my opponents roll for powers, and gifts, and trying to keep track of what model has what powers, etc. The ridiculous number of pregame rolls and book keeping is quite frustrating to have to sit through, I really hope GW fixes this gak.
Game 6
Spoiler:
Opponent: Gareth Hunt
Army: Chaos Daemons/Imperial Knights
2x Heralds of Tzeentch
9xScreamers
2x~13Horrors
2x Slaanesh Grinders
Knight Errant
Knight Paladin
Mission: Objectives
Secondaries: Chaos(Marked for Death(Solo Suit), Linebreaker, ?), Farsight(First Blood, Marked for Death(Knight Errant), Linebreaker)
1st Turn: Daemon Knights
Warlord Traits: Farsight(Master of Ambush... yet again without first turn)
Psychics: Heralds each have Incursion, one has Cursed Earth.
Knight Fighting: Yes.... he he get it, Knight Fighting...
Pregame Thoughts: Well, this is my third Daemon opponent of the day, all on table 6. 6... 6...6.... 666 well, isn't that cute. Two knights backed up by a Summoning Screamerstar, nasty, especailly as he can summon more units to hold objectives and the massive LOS blocking terrain piece in the center is going to cause me more headaches. Anyway, I need some luck to win this game. He has Cursed Earth and the Grimiore for an awesome 2++ Rerollable ScreamerStar. Though, with only two Heralds, one Cursed Earth, and no Fateweaver, its far from as reliable as it could be. I should have a chance to nuke it once in the first three turns, even one failed Grimiore will be huge and I'll need to capitalize on it. I was ballsy thinking I'd be able to take first blood and by marking his Knight Errant for Death. In fact, I'm planning on taking out his Knight Errant for first blood and killing both of them by the end of Turn 2.
Deployment: Vanguard
I deploy in such a way as to pull his Grinders into DT and get get range on his Knights and make sure Knight Fighting is to my benefit. My IA Riptide actually moved up there, otherwise, I didn't really move much.
Seize: Yes!!! Wow, lucky. Here is my chance to start this moving the right direction, I've got a chance to hit his Star and put quick Damage on his Knights.
Farsight Turn 1
I didn't move hardly at all, just moved the IA Riptide up high for LoS to one member of his ScreamerStar. Here is my chance. I attempt my Nova Reactor on my Earth Caste needing Rending to hurt the Knight.... and fail. I then reroll it thanks to the Earth Caste.... and Fail it again..... and fail my FNP for a wound. Nice. I then attempt my Nova Reactor on my other HBC Riptide... and fail as well as wound myself again. Outstanding. And then for fun my IA Riptide gets hot and failed to fire on the clustered ScreamerStar. Holy hell, after getting lucky and Siezing, the dice just bitch slapped me hard. It has hard to believe.
My MP CrisisStar puts everything into the Knight Errant hitting it for 8 MarkerLight(Which can't be used) Hits and punching 2 HP through its Ion Shield(Statistical Average). My HBC Riptides don't even fire as they only have AV13 targets.
Wow, what a disappointing turn.
Daemon Knights Turn 1
Everything advances, he summons two units of Plague Drones(A common theme), his Knights pound my MPCrisis Squad, but everything bounces off my BuffCommander and his 2+/3+(Cover)/5+++(FNP) barring a wound or two. Oh, and he Turnboboosted the Invulnerable Star to Point Blank Range.
Farsight Turn 2
Both Fusion Squads DS in, both land ok, one scatters clean over a Knight to the other side which is fine. Now, I actually make my Nova Reactor Checks this turn and am poised to dump 24 S6 Rending Shots, TLFBs, 16 Tankhunter MPs, and 8 Fusion Blasters all on Knights that won't have an Ion Shield Save because of how many different facings I'm on. He chose back for the Paladin, and Forward for the Errant.
I unleash hell.... or what is supposed to be hell. I start by putting the Markerlights into the Errant and all my MPs into the Paladin. I hit Erant with only 7 Markerlights and only put 2 HP on the Paladin.... wow, should have averaged 4 with no Ion Shield or Cover. Even 7MLs was low.
Then I light up the Errant with 4 BS5 Fusion Blasters in Melta Range... and manage 3 hits, 2 Pens and a Glance. No Explodes Results and the Errant is down to 1 HP. Ok, not great. I then dump both HBCTides into it with lots of Markerlights and can't roll a 6 to save my life, I believe he Ion shields the only one out of 12 Twinlinked BS5 and 12 BS6 shots. Ouch. Not good. I fire my IA riptide into it and get nothing. I then fire my solo MP Suits into it and get a 6 which he again Ion Shields away. Now, I'm forced to dump my last Fusion Squad into it to kill it, and manage one hit which is a pen... and not an explodes. But either way, it dies and of course with a Screamerstar and another Knight in close proximity is scatters directly onto my Fusion Squad and takes them out.
Well, that sucked. I had the firepower and position to drop both Knights.... and I barely manage to kill my Marked for Death Knight for First Blood.
Also, by Dual Burst Squad dropped on and lit up one Horror Squad only killing 4-5.
Terrible turn.
Daemon Knights Turn 2
Well, Grimiore Goes off. Cursed Earth Goes off. 1-2 more Incursions go off, so he's brought on more units of Plague Drones. We weren't even bothering putting the drones on bases after the first.
His Paladin turns around and manages to move and assault my Dual Burst Suits in his corner which really hurts, he makes the 9" charge. at one point I had four armors saves to make against stomp and failed them all. His Screamerstar makes combat with two of my Riptides and they proceed to slap each other for a while.
Farsight Turn 3
I Imobilize one of his Grinders with Ripplefired Riptide Fusion and retreat to my corner. My 3++ Riptides keep holding up against he Screamerstar. I start killing Plague Drones but its a losing battle.
Daemons Turn 3
He moves the Knight to shoot at my MP unit but keeps bouncing off my BuffCommander. He summons more Daemonettes, and a 4th or 5th unit of Plague Drones. He failed Cursed Earth this time, and my Riptides win Combat, but it doesn't matter.
He did end up with three perils with his Heralds, and got good results every time, two 6s and a 3.
Anyway, we out most of four and call this as I have a Riptide running for Linebreaker he won't be able to touch and he's got all the Objectives.
I've killed over 2:1 in points, but with 7 summoned units(Daemonettes, 2xScreamers, and 4x Plague Drones) hitting the board he is bringing on more units per turn than I could kill.
Victory for the Daemon Knights
Post Game Thoughts: What can I say? My opponent told me to burn my dice cube and buy a new one at least once a turn all game. I had the opportunity to win, but man Lady Luck kicked me in the sac, repeatedly and without mercy. I needed something to go my way, and the dice certainly didn't want it to be so. I had never thrown so many dice, many with rerolls and gotten so few 6s, it was ugly. And my Fusion was horrendous. Overall, the Knights weren't really an issue and should have been dispatched easily, but its Summoning that kills me. 2+ units per turn is just too much for me to deal with in an objectives mission. His Paladin not dieing and making the long charge to take out my Burst really sealed the deal as I lost the corner with two of his objectives instead of being able to sweep that corner in a few turns.
That was a tough game to end a tough day. Winning my first game to make Bracket 1, then getting pummeled in my first game of Top Bracket then having Lady luck kick me in the sac made for a mentally exhausting and draining day. I'm definitely looking for some more favorable matchups in my last two games on day 3. There are plenty of Eldar and some Necrons I'd rather be facing than Summoning.
My opponent would go on to take Battle master with 102 Battle Points and 3rd overall. Very well done.
Game 7
Spoiler:
Opponent: John Parson
Army: Astra Militarum/Knight
Eruo Pask
3x Melta Vets in Chimeras
3x Plasma Vets in Chimeras
2xWyverns
Russ
Knight Paladin
Pregame Thoughts: Well, due to unreported drops after game 6, my opponent is MIA. So, Parson from Bracket 2 is nice enough to Ringer up and give me a game 7. And he's using some serious Mech Guard with a Knight. Basically, I can't stop him from ticking Table Quarters up to 9 as a unit in a Transport counts as 2. So, I've basically got to let him tick up to 9, then put enough points value of my stuff in the quarters to score a 9 myself at end game and also have more secondaries than him. That damn Wyverns are going to be annoying, I'll need to kill them quickly.
Deployment: Dawn of War
Basically I deploy my MPCrisis unit in the opposite corner of his Wyverns, and directly across from his Knight... just like he wanted me to. My IA Riptide is far right, he's going to go after the Wyverns. For the 4th game in a row I've had Master of Ambush, and it just doesn't matter as I am again going second. I've seriously rolled -1 reserves everytime and rerolled into Master of Ambush without it helping me every time.
Seize: No. That would have been too easy.
AM/IK Turn1
Everything advances and shoots if it can dealing a sprinkling of wounds. My IA Riptide to the far right seem to be botching everything he rolls. Pask and friends just flatout forward thanks to orders. Wyverns move behind the hill almost removing them from LOS.
Farsight Turn 1
I throw everything into the Knight, I don't throw many 6s and he is a machine with his Ion Saves, I end up with only 2HP through, ouch. IA Riptide gets hot... again.... and does nothing but hide in the Ruins waiting to die. I end up with a pretty bad Jetpack Assault move on my Crisis unit putting them just within 21" of his IK, so a 9" charge will catch them.
AM/IK Turn 2
Again he advances and looses all the delicious guard firepower. His counter ticks up 3. The Knight fails its charge with a 7 or 8 and he does some wounds spread out, the IA Riptide is down to 2? Had the Knight made the charge, It would probably have been game.
Farsight Turn 2
Only one Fusion squad comes in from reserves but scatters and lands close enough to the Knight to be useful. My Dual Burst aggressively DS near the Wyverns and scatter onto them for a mishap, they are placed bottom left away from anything that matters. Both HBC Riptides Ripplefire their Fusions. I Light up the Knight and kill it with my Fusion Crisis, its explosion does no damage and grants me First blood. I managed to Ripplefire Pask and charge him with a Riptide to kill him. My IA riptide manages to shoot and charge the gaurd sweeping them. I also deal some HP damage to a Chimera with my Firewarriors and my lone crisis.
AM/IK Turn 3
AM/IK secure more BP. They finish off the IA Riptide and fail to do much more.
Farsight Turn 3
I drop fusion on top of the Wyverns. I use my MP Crisis unit to take out two Chimeras. One Riptide Ripplefires the other Punisher and assaults it for the kill. I also prinkle out more damage.
Due to a late start and the game now being a foregone conclusion we call it. I'm probably going to table him by 5 and I've got way too many points left on the table, most of it ObSec, to not get my 3 table Quarters at game end. I've also got 2 of the secondaries without question and its highly probably I'll get the third as he has no chance of securing more than Linebreaker.
We call it 15-11 win for Farsight
Post Game Thoughts: Well, if he made the 9" charge with the Knight he would have probably won barring some luck and a successful Hit and Run out, I would have lost then and there. But, when the Knight and Pask, who had to get too close to get out of the corridor and get a firing solution, died it was pretty much game. Blowing up 2 Chimeras and forcing the occupants to either be pinned or Snap Shot also didn't help matters and made the game a foregone conclusion. It was fun playing against Parsons and I really appreciated him ringering up from Bracket 2 to give me a game.
Game 8
Spoiler:
Opponent: Zach Pawlikowski
Army: Eldar
Autarch
4x DA Serpents
2x Fire Dragon Serpents
3x Swooping Hawks
Wraithknight
Mission: 6 Objectives. Eldar(Progressive), Farsight(Endgame)
Secondaries: Eldar(First Blood, Linebreaker, Marked for Death(SoloSuit)), Farsight(First Blood, Linebreaker, Marked for Death(Wraithknight))
1st Turn: Eldar
Night Fighting: Yes
Warlord Trait: Farsight(+1 Sieze, Reroll Reserves)
Pregame Thoughts: Well, I finally get another army I prepared for and its against Zach, the 15 year old wonder who suffered his first loss in the SemiFinals and was 6-1. Hella Impressive. But, this is a matchup that favors me barring some crazy luck with his Wraithknight. To keep his Wriathknight shy, I mark it for Death and decide I'm going to focus on his Wave Serpents. With Vanguard and my ability to kill his Serpents, I expect him to go Progressive which he does. I figure I've got enough ObSec that I can keep off the table or hidden long enough to steal enough points late game. I also pick First Blood as my army doens't give it up easily, and barring a lucky Distorn through 2+ Go To Ground Cover I won't be giving it up.
Deployment: Vanguard
He deploys Cautiously. I deploy trying to keep my BuffCommander out of the Wraithknights LOS and keep my Riptides in 3+ Ruins Cover thanks to Night Fighting.
Seize: No. Not lucky enough to do it on a 5+ twice in a tournament.
Eldar Turn 1
He shoots everything he can, uses LOS to shoot around my BuffCommander with Serpents and kills some drones. He also manage to put a couple of wounds on my non ECPA Riptide. All in all his turn does very little Damage and not as much as he was hoping for.
Farsight Turn 1
In return I advance, Kill a FD Serpent to the north and light up the close Serpent. I then Ripplefire, boost Balasitic Skill, and nuke the closest Serpent with effective BS10 and Ignores Cover. Without a Shield, it blows. I used the other HBCTide to kill the occupants. I then shuffle around in the assault phase defensively. Here I make a mistake, I forgot that Hawks blast isn't taken from the center of the blast, but from the location of the Hawks, so I end up with Suits inside and the drones outside trying to keep my Drones alive. This costs me most of my Drones.
Eldar Turn 2
He ticks up 1 at the start of the turn as I killed his serpent and Dire Avengers off of one. He does about the same this turn except due to my mistake his Hawks kill most of my Drones. He drops my HBC Riptide down to 1 Wound remaining after he went to ground to survive the Wraithknight's shooting.
Farsight Turn 2
I keep all but my Firewarrors off. Firewarriors kill four Hawks. I Immobilize one Serpent an wreck 1-2 others. I manage to kill most of his scoring units around Objectives.
Eldar Turn 3
He ticks up again for 2 Primary. He then dumps everything he can into my army and deals minimal damage. Hawks leave the table. Wraithknight finally advances but fails his charge on my ECPA who I left a bit too close. On this turn I don't lose any models. My armor saves were terrible on my HBC riptide, but many my FNP made up for it.
Farsight Turn 3
Well, all of my reserves arrive, mostly where I want them. I take out his last serpents and prepare to deny all his objectives. I also am poised to hammer his Wraithknight most of his units and am about ready to kill his marked for Death Wratihknight with a ton of firepower and some markerlights.
We call the game before I finish my shooting phase, I've dealt so much damage that it won't be possible for him to tick up any more on Primary. We assume his remaining Hawks swill kill the Marked for Death Unit and get Linebreaker and that I'll get full Primary. If the game played out it was quite likely he would have been effectively tabled on four and tabled on 5.
15-6 Victory to Farsight.
Post Game Thoughts: Man, Zach is a good player. I'm thoroughly impressed with how efficient he is on the table and how quick his decision making is. Though, my army is a pretty hard counter to his and he faced two choices, stay out of my range and lose by Objectives, or try and kill me and hold out long enough to rack up points on Objectives. He could have chosen end game objectives and castled in the corner, but that too came with its own risks and would have only saved one turn of shooting possibly 2 while greatly decreasing his firepower. Zach was a great opponent who finished 6th after tie breakers. Neither one of us realized it, we though he was 3rd or 4th no matter what, but my big win allowed me to end up just above him on BP with the same final record. Zach was an awesome opponent and really blew my mind how well he could play the game as a 15 year old.
And so concludes my NOVA adventure. Making the final bracket, then taking two hard losses to come back and win my last two and place well, ending up 5th overall as NOVA ranks drops as Losses and some in the final bracket chose not to finish their final games. NOVA was a blast. There were some serious lists rocking the tables and some phenomenal opponents. I can't complain about the experience too much, my only constructive criticism is that the missions and terrain currently favor Daemon Summoning too much and that was reflecting in their Overall showing. Though, that just my be my bias of facing three Daemon armies on the same table(666) and suffering two losses to them!
I loved NOVA, but I think I'm going to take another break from 40k until the Renegade and play some awesome Firestorm Armada in the meantime.
Thanks for reading, I hope you enjoyed my battle report and NOVA experience.
Sorry I don't have a picture of my army up, I'll make sure to put one up when I start the Battle Reports
How do you think I'll do? Feel free post post predictions and comments on my list, etc. NOVA Open is a 256 player 8 game event. After the first four games everyone is put into brackets based on their records, ie Bracket 1 is the 16 undefeated players, etc. Then the next four games are played to determine ranking within your bracket.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ha, just ran into the Frontline Gaming group, Reece, Frankie, and InControl, in Milwaukee Wi. Expected to have to reach DC before seeing any other players.
syypher wrote:Will you be posting the bat reps in this thread? I can't wait! I LOVE your list!
Thanks! Yes, I will be posting BatReps here, but Iv got two more days of games and flung to do, plus catch up at work.m expect it to be Tuesday before I crank the first one out.
zachwho wrote:hey zag, i hope the dice and all are going your way!! best of luck today
Thanks! Gotta jump in the shower and have at it!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Looks like confidence in me and my list is growing in the pole, some people must be peeking with ToFM!
I need a win or a super solid loss to make it to bracket 1, but it may be impossible to bot make bracket 4.
Automatically Appended Next Post: My game 4 opponent was an Awesome CSM Rusg list backed up by Khorne Hounds and Summoning. Game came down to time and one really unfortunate roll for my opponent. One if is was getting screwed by time, it was him, and a daemonic instability left we with the Relic and the win. He had me beat, I got lucky.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Game 5 was Haley,s Nirgle Prince list. It did not go well.
I would love to eventually read a run down of your list model/ unit choices! Why no broadsides? Any changes you'd make? What's your plan with it against popular matchup like 3 Wraithknight WS spam, demon factory, cent stars shenanigans, white scars, imperial knight formation... Any troubles with have essentially only 4x model/ units on the board t1?
That's if you have the time and willingness just wishful asking lol
syypher wrote:I would love to eventually read a run down of your list model/ unit choices! Why no broadsides? Any changes you'd make? What's your plan with it against popular matchup like 3 Wraithknight WS spam, demon factory, cent stars shenanigans, white scars, imperial knight formation... Any troubles with have essentially only 4x model/ units on the board t1?
That's if you have the time and willingness just wishful asking lol
I'll post when I get a chance. Of those listed builds only Daemon Summoning is successful and present in the top 16. There is one Adamantine Lance as we'll. Deamon Summoning is very present, definitely a factor of NOVAs ridiculously huge LOS blocking terrain and missions.
Definitely spot on. Round 6 was 2x Imperial Knights, 2x Slaanesh SoulGrinders, 2x Horrors, and a Screamerstar. Only thing I couldn't handle I again the Deamon Summoning. I hate that Mechanic, so much. Knights and Grinders weren't really an issue.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Round 7 my opponent dropped.... Leaving me a Bracket 2 opponent who bracketed up as a Ringer to face me.
Imperial Knight, Euro Pask, Melta Vets, Olasma Vets, and dual Wyverns.
Game six due to bracketing my opponent was the 15 year old who had his first loss in the Semifinals running Serpent Spam.
Nevermind wrote: Lee, great showing for the Greater Good! Congrats on fifth and best Tau!
Thanks. Lots of people were shocked "Real Tau" made it to bracket 1. I heard, "You made it to Bracket 1 with that?" Lol. One guy said, "A Tau list without any shennanigans..." After he read my list. Fun.
Oh how things change, people already cheering tau for making it near the top after the last year?
Anyways zagman it was cool meeting you and congrats again for finishing so well. Also watching the battle of the 'mans' between zagman and krootman made me chuckle for some reason.
Chancetragedy wrote: Oh how things change, people already cheering tau for making it near the top after the last year?
Anyways zagman it was cool meeting you and congrats again for finishing so well. Also watching the battle of the 'mans' between zagman and krootman made me chuckle for some reason.
Haha yeah, it was a battle of the Mans. Thing definitely have. Hanged. Tau started strong and were quickly overshadowed by Eldar, then quickly got shifted to a solid Ally choice for Eldar and SM and weaker primary. Then with the OVesaStar Tau had a dominent build.... Now with the edition changes, no ICs with MCs and the loss of Psychic support and Battle brothers they are mostly relegated to the FBSC which still is ludicrisously good.
Nevermind wrote: Lee, great showing for the Greater Good! Congrats on fifth and best Tau!
Thanks. Lots of people were shocked "Real Tau" made it to bracket 1. I heard, "You made it to Bracket 1 with that?" Lol. One guy said, "A Tau list without any shennanigans..." After he read my list. Fun.
For the Greater Good.
This is why I'm so excited to hear you thoughts and changes? on the list you ran. Also for your coming batreps and thought process of how to beat the army across the tables. Great job man!
The FBSC is good, but actually would have struggled at NOVA due to:
-The massive central LOS blockers.
-They lack mobility and therefore, in such an objective dominant mission packet, struggle.
-NOVA was heavy on Hammer and Anvil and Vanguard; which are not ideal deployment formats for the formation.
-It's best when you have some power over objective placement and can defend your home objectives and shoot people off middle ones; so when NOVA pre-places, that is yet another knock against it.
This is a perfect example on how sticking with the army you like through thick and thin pays out. Switching to whatever army is considered the "most competitive" every year, gives players no time to actually get good with any army. Your army may not be considered "top tier", but you'll have a distinct advantage of knowing how to utilize your army effectively regardless of the scenario. Well done mate!
Iechine wrote: Good report and pics, but I gotta say that game 1 was over before it started, her list just didnt stand a chance. : /
Thanks, I forgot the lists at home, but it was 3xFlyrant, 2x Crone, Troop Tervigon, 2x Zoanthrope, Venomthrope, and lots of Gribblies. The list isn't terrible, probably would have been better as Skyblight, but that just isn't a good matchup against me either way. I have all of my opponent's lists, so I'll be able to post it up later. Not a terrible Tyranid build. It was designed to score and be difficult to kill. She had two terrible matchups in her first four games, me round one and a 5 Knight army in the KP scenario.
Yep, the list had good board control and was definitely well suited to the NOVA missions. Me round 1 and the 5 Kngiht army in a KP Scenario pretty much guarenteed her two losses in four.
Anyway, I'll add list information when I remember grab it. Game 2 is done.
Should get OP's list get first turn against Eldar he actually has quite high chance of tabling him.
I imagine Eldar being afraid of loosing War Walkers 1st turn, so he reserves them. You've got 3 WSs and 2 WKs on the table.
Now I imagine it would be difficult to see/have range to all WSs, but lets say you do have range to all of them. 1 Commander with 1 Crisis shoot at 1st WS, 2 Crisis shoot at 2nd WS and Earth Caste HBC Riptide using 5-6 Marker lights shoots at the 3rd WS. 2 leftover Riptides help finish any leftover WSs. It is actually quite probable. I myself once faced such a unit and due to my underestimation I lost 4 Wave Serpents in 2 turns. Your opponents first turn and he only has 2 Wraithknights and some infantry. He either shoots at Crisis and you LoS it on drones or shoots at Riptides. Either way it doesn't matter.
Your 2nd turn. You probably kill1 WK via forcing him to make loads of saves. Some infantry men die.
His 2nd turn. War Walkers come in. Scatter Lasers are terribad against Riptides. All of them on average do 2,5 wounds. He probably shoots at Crisis unit. Probably kills some depending on you Commander's position (and his 2+ possibly also FnP saves)
Your turn 3. You end his misery.
Are my clayvorance skills good enough? May I possibly be a Farseer in a near future?
macexor wrote: Should get OP's list get first turn against Eldar he actually has quite high chance of tabling him.
I imagine Eldar being afraid of loosing War Walkers 1st turn, so he reserves them. You've got 3 WSs and 2 WKs on the table.
Now I imagine it would be difficult to see/have range to all WSs, but lets say you do have range to all of them. 1 Commander with 1 Crisis shoot at 1st WS, 2 Crisis shoot at 2nd WS and Earth Caste HBC Riptide using 5-6 Marker lights shoots at the 3rd WS. 2 leftover Riptides help finish any leftover WSs. It is actually quite probable. I myself once faced such a unit and due to my underestimation I lost 4 Wave Serpents in 2 turns. Your opponents first turn and he only has 2 Wraithknights and some infantry. He either shoots at Crisis and you LoS it on drones or shoots at Riptides. Either way it doesn't matter.
Your 2nd turn. You probably kill1 WK via forcing him to make loads of saves. Some infantry men die.
His 2nd turn. War Walkers come in. Scatter Lasers are terribad against Riptides. All of them on average do 2,5 wounds. He probably shoots at Crisis unit. Probably kills some depending on you Commander's position (and his 2+ possibly also FnP saves)
Your turn 3. You end his misery.
Are my clayvorance skills good enough? May I possibly be a Farseer in a near future?
Lol, not quite. If you are referring to my game three he doesn't reserve the Warwalkers and goes first, but the end result is very similar. You'll just have to wait and see how it actually goes down.
First round of shooting puts 2hp on the Knight. Second round of shooting drops the Knight vs SM. What did you use to shoot it t1? What about t2? Curious what your using to glance the knight to death.
syypher wrote: First round of shooting puts 2hp on the Knight. Second round of shooting drops the Knight vs SM. What did you use to shoot it t1? What about t2? Curious what your using to glance the knight to death.
Thanks
I used my BuffCommander, MPCommander, and MP Crisis to take out the Rhino, then dumped two MPCrisis into the Knight. I put 7 Markerlight hits on the Knight. Then I uses a NOVACharged IA(3 MLs to avoid Gets hot) to hit the Knight(Saved by Shield), Immobilize the Vindicator, and put a wound on a Grav Cent. I then dumped my Rending HBC fire into it. 2HP was pretty tame, I should have been able to put 3 on it, or maybe I had a failed NOVA and 2 was about right.
Turn 2 I just shot it with my full MP unit and my Riptides which average about 4 through a Shield with full Markerlight Support. Basically, my damage on the Knight was exactly what I expected for averaged. my 16 Twinlinked Tank Hunting Missiles average 4HP on AV13, 2HP after a 4++ Ion Shield. I really didn't need the Knight Dead turn 2 as it was slowed by terrain, so I was ok if I left it alive at 1HP, but averages prevailed and it fell.
Twinlinked Tank Huntering MPs with Targets Locks are just plain nasty against everything up to AV13. It it is AV2, I can pretty reliably take out 2 Wave Serpents in a single turn with that unit, plus Markerlight a third.
Edit: Don't worry, I face more Knights in the coming reports, I got pretty good at taking them out. I even was ballsy enough to get first blood twice with them and one was even Marked for Death by me!
jy2 wrote: Your Tau is scary! I know I'd have a hard time with it with my bugs. My Necrons, however, would be a different story.
In any case, I'd like to say congrats in advance and looking forward to reading the rest of your battles.
BTW, my friend Spam Adams got 5th at the BAO with his Tau.
Thanks Jy2, and no one wants to play against your Crons but I'd gladly take a crack at em! In general match up well against Necron, but triple Command Barges would be bad, no one I saw was running it, I think I saw a double somewhere at NOVA and both Necrons in the Top Bracket were running Spiders.
Yep, and besides me and Spam Adams Tau didn't do particularity well in either event, once you discount the Triptide Adamantine Lances that were floating around NOVA which were technically tau Primary.... Technically.
Personally I think the results say more of player skill than any particular army. Any decent TAC list with a good player will do well. I can say im not sure how that scoring works though. As your 6-2 and ended up higher than a 7-1 player.
Fragile wrote: Personally I think the results say more of player skill than any particular army. Any decent TAC list with a good player will do well. I can say im not sure how that scoring works though. As your 6-2 and ended up higher than a 7-1 player.
Anyone that chose to drop in their final bracket dropped to the bottom of their bracket. Had all games played out It is hard to say where I would have ended up, but 7-10th is more likely.
Do you yourself have any ideas how your enemy could have played it differently? Of course apart from moving his WKs turn 1.
Getting Master of Ambush was huge. What he needed to do was deploy them at point blank range and press them forward as fast as possible, they don't even need to shoot actually. If he can assault and sweep my Commander's unit he basically wins the game, so long as he keeps his serpents back and firing only serpent shields. Moving forward into 36" for Scatter Lasers is suicide. If he keeps them back I can't kill them, then they are in a position to pick off my easy KPs. If he outflanks his Scatter Walkers he can pick off my easy KPs as well. Basically, engaging me directly was the surest way for him to lose the game, had he played defensive he had a very strong chance of winning with Vanguard Deployment and Master of Ambush.
With that strategy I would have had to devote everything Turn one into his WKs and sacrificie something to stop him from assaulting, I would gladly have given him a Riptide to stop it as I could have dropped a WK in one turn. It costs him two Wraithknight to get one Riptide and possibly my CrisisStar, if he does that before I drop his serpents he probably wins. Its not a guarentee, but even then he can wait around and pick off my easier KPs and make a game of it. Then he can bring his Scatter Walkers on and hit my star, or pick off easy KPs while I have to chase him. Playing defensive and sacrificing his WKs pretty much gave him an upper hand. A Direct controntation was not good, its what my army does best against Eldar.
Fragile wrote: I can say im not sure how that scoring works though. As your 6-2 and ended up higher than a 7-1 player.
Its an artifact of how ToF displays the results. Games 5-8 are bracketed into separate 16 man tournaments based on game 1-4 performance, with the 4-0 records in bracket 1. Then the 3-1 players are in several other brackets, etc. So with how ToF sorts (first by the B column which is for Bracket) there will be winners of a lower bracket (guys who lost 1 but then went undefeated) with better records than the guys in a higher bracket.
Fragile wrote: I can say im not sure how that scoring works though. As your 6-2 and ended up higher than a 7-1 player.
Its an artifact of how ToF displays the results. Games 5-8 are bracketed into separate 16 man tournaments based on game 1-4 performance, with the 4-0 records in bracket 1. Then the 3-1 players are in several other brackets, etc. So with how ToF sorts (first by the B column which is for Bracket) there will be winners of a lower bracket (guys who lost 1 but then went undefeated) with better records than the guys in a higher bracket.
Arbiter wrote: Well done on games 1 and 2, though you should have lost game 3, but got lucky as he wasn't quite sure how to play against your army.
All in all congrats.
I think making a list for a tournament should factor in throwing your opponent off balance. Target confusion is a fantastic way to assist your opponent in making mistakes.
Arbiter wrote: Well done on games 1 and 2, though you should have lost game 3, but got lucky as he wasn't quite sure how to play against your army.
All in all congrats.
I agree he had an advantage with Master of Ambush, but my army was designed to pick off many of his KPs. He went all in trying to take out my firebase and my army was more resilient,coupled with his WK mistake it cost him a landslide. That being said, I had the ability to take both WKs and only lose a Riptide if necessary in 2 turns, then we'd have been close to where we ended up and there was only so much real estate. Serpents,the crimson Hunter, and the war Walkers, even the DAs and BikeSeer were all easy KPs for me, and the WKs were mandatory KPs. I only had 6 easy KPs in my army in comparison with the ability to keep them off the table for most of the game.
So many things could have been different, all we have is the result.
Arbiter wrote: Well done on games 1 and 2, though you should have lost game 3, but got lucky as he wasn't quite sure how to play against your army.
All in all congrats.
I think making a list for a tournament should factor in throwing your opponent off balance. Target confusion is a fantastic way to assist your opponent in making mistakes.
Yep, my second Eldar opponent who was good enough to make it to Semifinals made similar mistakes, granted in that game he had little choice. Well see that game 8.
Ive started using this system for my psycher heavy bugs:
And I genuinely think all Daemon/psycher heavy lists should be required to use a similar system or even a more refined one. Print out psycher powers if $ is the issue, an hour or two in word and you can have cards for all the things youve rolled psychic and gift wise and get on with it.
Sorry to hijack but I read your game 4 and 5 and felt your pain. Writing down each little thing just takes too long in a tourny setting.
Personally I dont see how you lost so badly. I see your deployment for that particular fight was not as good as it could be. You should have been farther back to mitigate his R1 alpha strike with your HQ unit, but a S8 beam and blast should not have crippled your army, unless there is something listed in your opponents list that you did not mention.
Devil wrote:i assume at game 5 you coudn't out range enfeble? or reserve your buff commander unit? Anyway tough match up you had. Thank you for sharing
Deploys 24" up, moves 24", range 24". There is absolutely no way to out range it. Reserving it means that I lose Pen Monster Hunter and however long it takes to arrive, and I lose the units I needed for progressive scoring.
Iechine wrote:Ive started using this system for my psycher heavy bugs:
Spoiler:
And I genuinely think all Daemon/psycher heavy lists should be required to use a similar system or even a more refined one. Print out psycher powers if $ is the issue, an hour or two in word and you can have cards for all the things youve rolled psychic and gift wise and get on with it.
Sorry to hijack but I read your game 4 and 5 and felt your pain. Writing down each little thing just takes too long in a tourny setting.
Yes, some kind of method for keeping track of powers is nice.
Master Shake wrote:To be fair, generating powers for me only took 5 minutes. ...
Absolutely, you were super efficient and it didn't take very long. I didn't mean any of my posts to come across differently. It's still a pain for your opponent to keep track of all of your powers, rewards, WC dice etc. And our game was over in under 30 minutes anyway! You may have it down, but that doesn't mean your opponent isn't put in a very unenjoyable position of trying to keep track of a ton of rewards and powers let alone following the WC Pool. It's just a terrible mechanic on GW's part, and I had to deal with it all three games day 2.
Fragile wrote:Personally I dont see how you lost so badly. I see your deployment for that particular fight was not as good as it could be. You should have been farther back to mitigate his R1 alpha strike with your HQ unit, but a S8 beam and blast should not have crippled your army, unless there is something listed in your opponents list that you did not mention.
Well, your opinion is pretty flawed. And how was I going to mitigate his Turn 1? The only thing I could have possible avoided was the Lance. I would of had to deployed along the Board edge. In under 6" of space to avoid the Lance, which would have been my only deployment mistake. Sure, maybe it was doable but it could have guaranteed I wouldn't of had any return fire against anything he wouldn't of wanted me to the next turn and would have made any chance I would of had seizing a non factor. Deploying in that manor guaranteed the loss for me. With 24" move and 24" range powers I had no place to go.
Also, did you miss the fact that he enfeebled the unit, hit me with Bolt of Change, and rolled S6 hits via Warp Storm, and that S8 was enough to ID my now T4 BuffCommander? Then he hit me with the Lance which is the only thing I could have possibly avoided and because of the warpStorm I had no one to LOS to.
I took a calculated risk, and Dice slammed me hard for it. My chance in that game required first turn and the ability to kill the Enfeeble Prince, or getting lucky and DtWig it. But he had as many successes as I had dice...
Something g else for readers to consider. However many dice he had, I was casting powers with enough dice to make sure it was impossible to deny. So if he had 3 dice, I would roll 8 to cast.
I'm really enjoying the reports and thank you for taking the time to post them. I do have a question about your list though. I keep seeing what looks like a squad of drones by itself in your pictures, is that a squad you took, or just a dead pile?
Nocturus wrote: I'm really enjoying the reports and thank you for taking the time to post them. I do have a question about your list though. I keep seeing what looks like a squad of drones by itself in your pictures, is that a squad you took, or just a dead pile?
Noc
They are his "counts as" Fire Warriors from the Tau allied detachment. That way he maintains the FE all suits and drones theme and can still use the Buffmander.
Well, your opinion is pretty flawed. And how was I going to mitigate his Turn 1? The only thing I could have possible avoided was the Lance. I would of had to deployed along the Board edge. In under 6" of space to avoid the Lance, which would have been my only deployment mistake. Sure, maybe it was doable but it could have guaranteed I wouldn't of had any return fire against anything he wouldn't of wanted me to the next turn and would have made any chance I would of had seizing a non factor. Deploying in that manor guaranteed the loss for me. With 24" move and 24" range powers I had no place to go.
Also, did you miss the fact that he enfeebled the unit, hit me with Bolt of Change, and rolled S6 hits via Warp Storm, and that S8 was enough to ID my now T4 BuffCommander? Then he hit me with the Lance which is the only thing I could have possibly avoided and because of the warpStorm I had no one to LOS to.
I took a calculated risk, and Dice slammed me hard for it. My chance in that game required first turn and the ability to kill the Enfeeble Prince, or getting lucky and DtWig it. But he had as many successes as I had dice...
I was dead in the water before the game started.
Deploying your HQ unit in the back 6" would have mitigated most of that damage. Bolt of change is 24". It is also a beam, allowing for 1 hit on your unit, properly deployed. Infernal Gateway is 18". Hellfire Gaze is 18". So 1 hit against your unit would cripple you? Yes, the Warp Storm is unfortunate combined with enfeeble but your Commander could have been able to Tank those hits. What am I missing that happened?
I've discussed it with several TOs and the general consensus is that since a model holds it and can drop it you can only take it if it's not in possession of your opponent's army.
Nocturus wrote: I'm really enjoying the reports and thank you for taking the time to post them. I do have a question about your list though. I keep seeing what looks like a squad of drones by itself in your pictures, is that a squad you took, or just a dead pile?
Noc
They are his "counts as" Fire Warriors from the Tau allied detachment. That way he maintains the FE all suits and drones theme and can still use the Buffmander.
Dozer Blades wrote: I've discussed it with several TOs and the general consensus is that since a model holds it and can drop it you can only take it if it's not in possession of your opponent's army.
What in the rules support that arguement? An objective is controlled by lack of proximity of enemy units. Units dont contest anymore, they just prevent the other side being able to control it.
Dozer Blades wrote:If you review the rules for holding the Relic I think you'll find it can't be contested.
It's treated as a movable Objective, see rules for holding Objectives. This was Nova using Nova rules and and controlling the Relic was worth 5pts. I've seen your posting in the NOVA thread, no need for your slamming or criticism of Nova in this thread. That is how it was ruled and verified by a floor judge. End of conversation, your opinion here is not necessary.
Master Shake wrote:I gotcha. Lol
Just giving you gak.
Something g else for readers to consider. However many dice he had, I was casting powers with enough dice to make sure it was impossible to deny. So if he had 3 dice, I would roll 8 to cast.
Yeah, you certainly were, I had 3 dice and you had 2-3 successes on every powers and when I did throw them it didn't matter, no 6s.
Nocturus wrote:I'm really enjoying the reports and thank you for taking the time to post them. I do have a question about your list though. I keep seeing what looks like a squad of drones by itself in your pictures, is that a squad you took, or just a dead pile?
Noc
Those small Drones are my Counts As Firewarriors to maintain the Suits and drones theme.
Leth wrote:
Dozer Blades wrote: If you review the rules for holding the Relic I think you'll find it can't be contested.
Where does it say anything of the sort? It is an objective that you can move. thats it
Well, your opinion is pretty flawed. And how was I going to mitigate his Turn 1? The only thing I could have possible avoided was the Lance. I would of had to deployed along the Board edge. In under 6" of space to avoid the Lance, which would have been my only deployment mistake. Sure, maybe it was doable but it could have guaranteed I wouldn't of had any return fire against anything he wouldn't of wanted me to the next turn and would have made any chance I would of had seizing a non factor. Deploying in that manor guaranteed the loss for me. With 24" move and 24" range powers I had no place to go.
Also, did you miss the fact that he enfeebled the unit, hit me with Bolt of Change, and rolled S6 hits via Warp Storm, and that S8 was enough to ID my now T4 BuffCommander? Then he hit me with the Lance which is the only thing I could have possibly avoided and because of the warpStorm I had no one to LOS to.
I took a calculated risk, and Dice slammed me hard for it. My chance in that game required first turn and the ability to kill the Enfeeble Prince, or getting lucky and DtWig it. But he had as many successes as I had dice...
I was dead in the water before the game started.
Deploying your HQ unit in the back 6" would have mitigated most of that damage. Bolt of change is 24". It is also a beam, allowing for 1 hit on your unit, properly deployed. Infernal Gateway is 18". Hellfire Gaze is 18". So 1 hit against your unit would cripple you? Yes, the Warp Storm is unfortunate combined with enfeeble but your Commander could have been able to Tank those hits. What am I missing that happened?
Sure, if I spread out completely I could have limited the Bolt of Change to only 2 hits, but doing so would have greatly increased my vulnerability to Flickering Fire and others. Basically he Rolled Bolt of change at S8, had he not done that, or Enfeebled the unit it wouldn't of mattered. And deploying in such a manor would have made seizing the Initiative worthless which is something I needed more. And had the WarpStorm not pummeled me I would have come through the situation in better condition than had I deployed against the board edge.
It was a gamble, it failed. Your armchair quarterbacking isn't necessary and flawed, but what do I know, I was there? You aren't quite understanding just how unforgiving the dice involved were, if it could have gone wrong, it did.
And with a T8 FMC, and two with 4+ FNP, and a 2++ Rerollable Fateweaver and not enough drones to remove cover for HBCTides I was dead in the water after the WarpStorm as a 2+ cover save with a floating Fateweaver reroll is brutal. Once I lost a handful of Markerdrones, MP crisis, or my BuffCommander it was over. He accomplished both of those before the BuffCommander bit it, it just didn't matter at that stage of the game, it was over with Enfeeble, his powers, and him having first turn. My only chance was going first and nuking the Enfeeble Prince.
Hell he had Invisibility and Iron arm on Fateweaver that weren't even important enough to devote WC to cast, lol.
Dozer Blades wrote:I've discussed it with several TOs and the general consensus is that since a model holds it and can drop it you can only take it if it's not in possession of your opponent's army.
Don't care what your interpretation is as it has zero bearing on the game I played or the rulings in place and judge verified.
Master Shake wrote: The truth of the matter is, I got lucky. The dice were on my side and clearly not on Zag's.
It's a game of chance and that's how it goes sometimes.
The important thing is we had a fun game. Since that's what the game is about. HAVING FUN. Don't forget it.
I definitely owe you a rematch next year, Zag.
Definitely, I'll have to trek out to Nova again. It was an enjoyable beating, at least as much as possible. All I could do is laugh as everything you tried fell into place and nothing I needed did, hilarity.
It certainly wasn't my game, oh how much damage I could have done with Master of ambush had I snuck first turn.....
I'm quite enjoying this battle reports, just shows what an army can do when it focusses on mastering one phase of the game (shooting in your case, if anyone didn't pick up on that).
That said I feel abit meh, towards you getting your ass handed to you by the Nurgle Daemon list, particularly in light of the savage beat-down you handed out, games 1 & 2. It's all about the pairings, and you got handed a bad one.
The Daemon's 5/10 minutes of pre-game rolls seems to irk lots of people, which seems unfair given daemons essentially have no shooting bar the warp storm. I suscept turn time wise daemons are actually quicker than shooting heavy armies, maybe slightly skewed by summoning armies...
Anyways I'm looking forward to reading the rest of the reports, I feel like I want to start a tau army now from reading them :-P
Nevermind wrote: Tough game five but still an impressive run! Looking forward to the last three games!
Thanks. I've got another tough game in game 6 against a Daemons/Knight army. Basically a Summoning Screamerstar, two units of Horrors, two Slaanesh Grinders, and two Knights. Then games 7 and 8 are more better for me.
CaptainJay wrote: I'm quite enjoying this battle reports, just shows what an army can do when it focusses on mastering one phase of the game (shooting in your case, if anyone didn't pick up on that).
That said I feel abit meh, towards you getting your ass handed to you by the Nurgle Daemon list, particularly in light of the savage beat-down you handed out, games 1 & 2. It's all about the pairings, and you got handed a bad one.
The Daemon's 5/10 minutes of pre-game rolls seems to irk lots of people, which seems unfair given daemons essentially have no shooting bar the warp storm. I suscept turn time wise daemons are actually quicker than shooting heavy armies, maybe slightly skewed by summoning armies...
Anyways I'm looking forward to reading the rest of the reports, I feel like I want to start a tau army now from reading them :-P
I agree. It's always nice to see a bend over you opponent 6th edition Tau list get bent over in 7th and then the Tau player whining about it. Tau is a list which literally breaks all sorts of core 40k rules and because of that they lose any and all forms of complaining about an opponents army.
CaptainJay wrote: I'm quite enjoying this battle reports, just shows what an army can do when it focusses on mastering one phase of the game (shooting in your case, if anyone didn't pick up on that).
That said I feel abit meh, towards you getting your ass handed to you by the Nurgle Daemon list, particularly in light of the savage beat-down you handed out, games 1 & 2. It's all about the pairings, and you got handed a bad one.
The Daemon's 5/10 minutes of pre-game rolls seems to irk lots of people, which seems unfair given daemons essentially have no shooting bar the warp storm. I suscept turn time wise daemons are actually quicker than shooting heavy armies, maybe slightly skewed by summoning armies...
Anyways I'm looking forward to reading the rest of the reports, I feel like I want to start a tau army now from reading them :-P
I agree. It's always nice to see a bend over you opponent 6th edition Tau list get bent over in 7th and then the Tau player whining about it. Tau is a list which literally breaks all sorts of core 40k rules and because of that they lose any and all forms of complaining about an opponents army.
Anything productive to post?
In case you haven't noticed, Tau really aren't that powerful of a 7th Edition army and are far far from the worst offenders currently. They are basically a mid upper tier army that have some serious bad matchups. Aside from mine and Spam Adams showing, they really haven't done well in the 7th edition events. At NOVA it was only the Pacific Rim, Triptide with Adamantine Lance, that kept the Tau win percentage up.
Also, please point out where I've was whining to such a massive degree? I'd appreciate if you keep the posts in my thread constructive or at least on topic.
Despite the "nerfings" to Tau, they are still really good. I know that, with the exception of my AV13 necrons, I sill struggle against Tau with a lot of my armies. They just went from super bad-ass to just plain regular bad-ass, which is still a heck of a lot better than many other armies.
BTW, I like the nickname Pacific Rim. Yeah, if you go up against it, just bend over and get ready to take it. HAHAHA.... And the funny thing is, while I can't run a regular Tau army, I actually have the models to run the Pacific Rim.
Yea game 1 was pretty much the same as 5 just in your favor. That poor player lost first turn and any shot of winning before she ever moved a model as well really.
That said, it's just a major symptom of the overall match-up condition 40k faces. Winning one of these events requires some serious luck to get good match ups and first turn over 8 games. 8! games!
You did awesome Zag! Looking forward to the rest of the games, especially against Knights.
Any army that can throw a beating at and mini with the Knight moniker gets my thumbs up.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I thought Pacific Rim was the list Jesse Newton made up while at NOVA that had 3 ImpKnights + Skyblight?
jy2 wrote:Despite the "nerfings" to Tau, they are still really good. I know that, with the exception of my AV13 necrons, I sill struggle against Tau with a lot of my armies. They just went from super bad-ass to just plain regular bad-ass, which is still a heck of a lot better than many other armies.
BTW, I like the nickname Pacific Rim. Yeah, if you go up against it, just bend over and get ready to take it. HAHAHA.... And the funny thing is, while I can't run a regular Tau army, I actually have the models to run the Pacific Rim.
They are still very good. The match up well against a variety of good builds, but the list of bad matchups is growing whereas Eldar has continued to outpace the competition and took the edition change better. The lack of Psychics and any tangible way to slow non Witchfire and non Maledictions down is painful.
Red Corsair wrote:Yea game 1 was pretty much the same as 5 just in your favor. That poor player lost first turn and any shot of winning before she ever moved a model as well really.
That said, it's just a major symptom of the overall match-up condition 40k faces. Winning one of these events requires some serious luck to get good match ups and first turn over 8 games. 8! games!
You did awesome Zag! Looking forward to the rest of the games, especially against Knights.
Any army that can throw a beating at and mini with the Knight moniker gets my thumbs up.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I thought Pacific Rim was the list Jesse Newton made up while at NOVA that had 3 ImpKnights + Skyblight?
Knights=robots
Nids=Kaiju
I didn't see a Skyblight + Knights build and it's very possible Jesse called that build Pacific Rim. But, there was quite a bit of referring to Niel's, Justin's and Jesse's Teiptide + Adamantine Lance as Pacific Rim.
Actually, my game 5 was way more Lopsided than game 1.
I agree, the severity if Matchups has definitely gotten more pronounced. I kind of pine for the good old days where builds in General were less extreme, but I was also much less competitive and the Internet did not rule supreme. But we've seen problems in every edition. There is just too much reward and too little risk for most players to play an extreme build.
I matched up well against Knights all tournament, though I didn't draw any Adamantine Lances. In my next game you'll see me against two IKs, and you'll see a pretty epic dice fail, but even so I didn't have much trouble dropping 1 of the 2 turn 2 and realistically should have dropped both. Funny enough, all Tournament I never rolled an Explodes result against an Imperial Knight with Melta despite ~16 shots most of which were BS5, I HP Stripped all of them.
jy2 wrote:Despite the "nerfings" to Tau, they are still really good. I know that, with the exception of my AV13 necrons, I sill struggle against Tau with a lot of my armies. They just went from super bad-ass to just plain regular bad-ass, which is still a heck of a lot better than many other armies.
BTW, I like the nickname Pacific Rim. Yeah, if you go up against it, just bend over and get ready to take it. HAHAHA.... And the funny thing is, while I can't run a regular Tau army, I actually have the models to run the Pacific Rim.
They are still very good. The match up well against a variety of good builds, but the list of bad matchups is growing whereas Eldar has continued to outpace the competition and took the edition change better. The lack of Psychics and any tangible way to slow non Witchfire and non Maledictions down is painful.
Red Corsair wrote:Yea game 1 was pretty much the same as 5 just in your favor. That poor player lost first turn and any shot of winning before she ever moved a model as well really.
That said, it's just a major symptom of the overall match-up condition 40k faces. Winning one of these events requires some serious luck to get good match ups and first turn over 8 games. 8! games!
You did awesome Zag! Looking forward to the rest of the games, especially against Knights.
Any army that can throw a beating at and mini with the Knight moniker gets my thumbs up.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I thought Pacific Rim was the list Jesse Newton made up while at NOVA that had 3 ImpKnights + Skyblight?
Knights=robots
Nids=Kaiju
I didn't see a Skyblight + Knights build and it's very possible Jesse called that build Pacific Rim. But, there was quite a bit of referring to Niel's, Justin's and Jesse's Teiptide + Adamantine Lance as Pacific Rim.
Actually, my game 5 was way more Lopsided than game 1.
I agree, the severity if Matchups has definitely gotten more pronounced. I kind of pine for the good old days where builds in General were less extreme, but I was also much less competitive and the Internet did not rule supreme. But we've seen problems in every edition. There is just too much reward and too little risk for most players to play an extreme build.
I matched up well against Knights all tournament, though I didn't draw any Adamantine Lances. In my next game you'll see me against two IKs, and you'll see a pretty epic dice fail, but even so I didn't have much trouble dropping 1 of the 2 turn 2 and realistically should have dropped both. Funny enough, all Tournament I never rolled an Explodes result against an Imperial Knight with Melta despite ~16 shots most of which were BS5, I HP Stripped all of them.
Pacific Rim was what I was calling it all weekend. Jesse made up an adlance/nid army afterwards and wanted to call it Pacific Rim, and call the knights/tides Rock'em Sock'em Robots. I dont mind either one, but we put it to a community vote on our team SG videos facebook page (shameless plugs are shameless) as to what the knight/tide list should be called. Also I borrowed this army last minute and now am getting it commissioned, so expect to see it at east coast gts as well as probably LVO next year. Jim you know you want to fight this and regain your honor vs me after the necrons got shot up by ovesa and friends.
Zag seriously good job and grats on having the highest tau placing in the tournament, and with a real tau army not riptides riding around on imperial knights .
Pacific Rim was what I was calling it all weekend. Jesse made up an adlance/nid army afterwards and wanted to call it Pacific Rim, and call the knights/tides Rock'em Sock'em Robots. I dont mind either one, but we put it to a community vote on our team SG videos facebook page (shameless plugs are shameless) as to what the knight/tide list should be called. Also I borrowed this army last minute and now am getting it commissioned, so expect to see it at east coast gts as well as probably LVO next year. Jim you know you want to fight this and regain your honor vs me after the necrons got shot up by ovesa and friends.
Zag seriously good job and grats on having the highest tau placing in the tournament, and with a real tau army not riptides riding around on imperial knights .
Thanks, I just LOLed to Riptides riding around on Imperial Knights!
Congrats yourself. Second to One is extremely impressive, especially after your showing last year.
Pacific Rim was what I was calling it all weekend. Jesse made up an adlance/nid army afterwards and wanted to call it Pacific Rim, and call the knights/tides Rock'em Sock'em Robots. I dont mind either one, but we put it to a community vote on our team SG videos facebook page (shameless plugs are shameless) as to what the knight/tide list should be called. Also I borrowed this army last minute and now am getting it commissioned, so expect to see it at east coast gts as well as probably LVO next year. Jim you know you want to fight this and regain your honor vs me after the necrons got shot up by ovesa and friends.
Zag seriously good job and grats on having the highest tau placing in the tournament, and with a real tau army not riptides riding around on imperial knights .
Thanks, I just LOLed to Riptides riding around on Imperial Knights!
Congrats yourself. Second to 1 is extremely impressive, especially after your showing last year.
Anyway, game 6 posted.
And Game 7 is posted.
Zagman! I have a question I sent you as a PM. Could you please check it out?
Nice job! Great report. What was your opinion of the NoVa mission format vs others (LVO, Adepticon or others)?
Also hate to be that guy but in game 8 you mention going to ground to get 2+ cover vs wraithknight shooting. Monstrous Creatures are banned from going to ground in 7ed (riptides used to be able to in 6ed because they weren't fearless, now its just a flat rule that MCs can't GtG). Doesn't sound like you went to ground, so just a FYI for the future.
winterman wrote: Nice job! Great report. What was your opinion of the NoVa mission format vs others (LVO, Adepticon or others)?
Also hate to be that guy but in game 8 you mention going to ground to get 2+ cover vs wraithknight shooting. Monstrous Creatures are banned from going to ground in 7ed (riptides used to be able to in 6ed because they weren't fearless, now its just a flat rule that MCs can't GtG). Doesn't sound like you went to ground, so just a FYI for the future.
Thanks. I feel the NOVA missions have gotten too complicated and are no longer fitting for 7th edition. They definitely helped Daemon Summoning armies as did the Terrain. Overall, I like what they are trying to do, but feel that they aren't quite right for 7th. I like the BAO missions, though I'd like beginning of round scoring like NOVA better as it always gives your opponent a chance to react. I talked to Reece about it, and he assures me ToF still gives 1st turn an advantage despite that scoring method, but I still like the NOVA beginning of turn better. KP only missions probably need to go the way of the Dodo with a KP score modification being present in every mission like ETC. Gonyo spoke highly of the scoring method and I liked everything I hear.
Thanks for pointing out that a MC can't GtG anymore. I did have one Riptide go to ground to survive a wound from the Wratihknight, it wasn't distort and I failed the Cover save anyway, but made the FNP. So in the end it only robbed me of firepower, but it is great to know. Thanks!
djn wrote: Great reports and well done placing so highly with the now unfashionable Tau.
Thanks. There were a handful of Tau in Bracket 2, not including the Pacific Rim builds. But pure Tau are suffering in the current Meta. At least they are still a pretty good counter to Eldar and Crons and even Imperial Knights.
winterman wrote: Any tweaks to the list after seeing how the meta is shaking out?
Hmm, tough question. I really missed having Stims on my IA Riptide, and strongly considered dropping a Solo Suit for it. In my test games it proved to be very tempting, after NOVA I didn't have issues with the IA giving up First Blood or dieting too quickly.
I'd probably make that switch, gaining Stims as the Solo Suits were quite squishy and weren't as critical for securing objective as I hoped.
Otherwise, I am pretty happy with the list, it did exactly what I expected it to. I didn't expect so many Daemon opponents and don't really see any easy modifications that would have really made a difference without costing me elsewhere.
Dozer Blades wrote: Excellent showing overall ! Puretide Tau is still quite potent. FE is definitely the way to go.
Thanks, I was quite happy with the experience overall.
I got a kick out of when people asked how I was doing, looked surprised when I said I made top bracket, looked even more surprised when I said I was playing Tau, and even more surprised yet when I said I was fielding no Broadsides or FBSC.
I feel the list was well balanced and a TMC(Take Most Comers) list that matched up pretty well in the Meta.
What was the ruling on O'Vesa joining units at Nova? He seems to me to be a better alternative to protecting your mini crisis deathstar than the squishy buff commander.
Asmodai Asmodean wrote: What was the ruling on O'Vesa joining units at Nova? He seems to me to be a better alternative to protecting your mini crisis deathstar than the squishy buff commander.
O'Vesa can join a unit, but that unit cannot include an IC.
And no, not in the slightest. O'Vesa doesn't bring Twinlinking, a Tank/Monster Hunter, or Ignores cover to the table, so he's actually a terrible replacement for a BuffCommander, and I'd have to take Farsight. And FYI, with a 2+/4++/5+++ and 4 Wounds a BuffCommander is actually more resilient against some forms of firepower as they are both brought down to T4 majority Toughness.
I originally had planned a BuffCommander, O'Vesa, Tripple MP a Crisis unit that would have put out more firepower than my current unit and been majority T6, but both Nova and BAO rules it's a no go.
Thanks for a great battle report. Glad to see Tau win some games.
Just looked at the final results and see the top 5 are Eldar. Wow. I was very bummed to see so many Daemon summoning armies. That makes it looks like some of the fears about 7th were well founded.
Glad to hear your did so well. For the Greater Good!
vadersson wrote: Thanks for a great battle report. Glad to see Tau win some games.
Just looked at the final results and see the top 5 are Eldar. Wow. I was very bummed to see so many Daemon summoning armies. That makes it looks like some of the fears about 7th were well founded.
Glad to hear your did so well. For the Greater Good!
Thanks,
Duncan
Thanks, glad you enjoyed them. There were definitely quite a few Eldar in the top Bracket as well as Daemon Summoning. Eldar because well Eldar are still awesome. Maybe not to the degree they were in 6th, but they are still top dog. Daemon Summoning was more prevalent at NOVA because NOVA's missions and their heavy use of LoS blocking terrain favored them and helped them to be more successful. Also, NOVA's ruling on Psykers which IMO is the best, does help them further as well as it allows them take take multiple attempts in multple Psykers in a unit have the power.
winterman wrote: Any tweaks to the list after seeing how the meta is shaking out?
Hmm, tough question. I really missed having Stims on my IA Riptide, and strongly considered dropping a Solo Suit for it. In my test games it proved to be very tempting, after NOVA I didn't have issues with the IA giving up First Blood or dieting too quickly.
I'd probably make that switch, gaining Stims as the Solo Suits were quite squishy and weren't as critical for securing objective as I hoped.
Otherwise, I am pretty happy with the list, it did exactly what I expected it to. I didn't expect so many Daemon opponents and don't really see any easy modifications that would have really made a difference without costing me elsewhere.
Getting those stims on the 3rd riptide does make sense. Also that one game where you had all those targeted psychic powers hit your deathstar made me think of the Arthas Moloch relic. But what is it, 35 points? Not sure its worth it in most games but man it woulda been nice to have in that game. Psychic shriek is so common locally its on my mind for the tau percolating in the back of my head (thanks to you and your batrep by the by, thinking of starting tau).
Asmodai Asmodean wrote: What was the ruling on O'Vesa joining units at Nova? He seems to me to be a better alternative to protecting your mini crisis deathstar than the squishy buff commander.
O'Vesa can join a unit, but that unit cannot include an IC.
And no, not in the slightest. O'Vesa doesn't bring Twinlinking, a Tank/Monster Hunter, or Ignores cover to the table, so he's actually a terrible replacement for a BuffCommander, and I'd have to take Farsight. And FYI, with a 2+/4++/5+++ and 4 Wounds a BuffCommander is actually more resilient against some forms of firepower as they are both brought down to T4 majority Toughness.
I originally had planned a BuffCommander, O'Vesa, Tripple MP a Crisis unit that would have put out more firepower than my current unit and been majority T6, but both Nova and BAO rules it's a no go.
I usually run O'Vesa and a Buff Bodyguard (Farsight Enclave Bodyguard teams can take Signature Systems from the Tau Codex) with attached ICs, but the ruling here is that ICs can join units with O'vesa. I think the BAO and NOVA rulings are kind of unfairly penalising Tau, and it's not even that strong a build. I suppose your build is the only other alternative. I would never run O'vesa in a majority T4 unit, doesn't make much sense.
Reecius wrote:You did great, Lee! It was a pleasure hanging out with you at nova, dude.
Any reflections on the Adamantine Lance formation and the poor showing of triple Knight armies in general, Reecius?
vadersson wrote:Thanks for a great battle report. Glad to see Tau win some games.
Just looked at the final results and see the top 5 are Eldar. Wow. I was very bummed to see so many Daemon summoning armies. That makes it looks like some of the fears about 7th were well founded.
Glad to hear your did so well. For the Greater Good!
Thanks,
Duncan
Top 5 are Eldar, Eldar/Dark Eldar, Chaos Daemons/ Knights, Necrons and Tau. Top Ten have four more Eldar armies and one CSM, is that what you were looking at?
There are no pure Daemonfarms in the top 50 and the no. 3 Daemon list is more of a Screamerstar/Knightrush list. There are 4 Daemon lists that made top 20, 3 of which are FMC-spam. Daemon summoning is incidental to the list, not integral. What fears about 7th are founded again? Please don't be a fearmonger.
Getting those stims on the 3rd riptide does make sense. Also that one game where you had all those targeted psychic powers hit your deathstar made me think of the Arthas Moloch relic. But what is it, 35 points? Not sure its worth it in most games but man it woulda been nice to have in that game. Psychic shriek is so common locally its on my mind for the tau percolating in the back of my head (thanks to you and your batrep by the by, thinking of starting tau).
Talisman used to be too good but now it's kind of pointless, since Tau don't generate enough warp-charge to make it useful (unless you bring allies who do, but the only really good allies for Tau are Knights.)
The prevalence of Eldar is mostly due to the lack of good Tau players since FE is pretty much the best hard counter to any Wave Serpent based build, and the nerfing of O'vesa stopping him from forming the Tau deathstar = lack of Tau players.
winterman wrote:
Getting those stims on the 3rd riptide does make sense. Also that one game where you had all those targeted psychic powers hit your deathstar made me think of the Arthas Moloch relic. But what is it, 35 points? Not sure its worth it in most games but man it woulda been nice to have in that game. Psychic shriek is so common locally its on my mind for the tau percolating in the back of my head (thanks to you and your batrep by the by, thinking of starting tau).
Not really, Tau have no access to increase the number of Dice they have access to and generally speaking its Blessing that are the real issue, not Witchfires and Maledictions. Over the course of the entire tournament, I would have stopped zero powers I didn't stop. I would have gotten exactly zero benefit out of the Talisman.
Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
I usually run O'Vesa and a Buff Bodyguard (Farsight Enclave Bodyguard teams can take Signature Systems from the Tau Codex) with attached ICs, but the ruling here is that ICs can join units with O'vesa. I think the BAO and NOVA rulings are kind of unfairly penalising Tau, and it's not even that strong a build. I suppose your build is the only other alternative. I would never run O'vesa in a majority T4 unit, doesn't make much sense.
Any reflections on the Adamantine Lance formation and the poor showing of triple Knight armies in general, Reecius?
Top 5 are Eldar, Eldar/Dark Eldar, Chaos Daemons/ Knights, Necrons and Tau. Top Ten have four more Eldar armies and one CSM, is that what you were looking at?
There are no pure Daemonfarms in the top 50 and the no. 3 Daemon list is more of a Screamerstar/Knightrush list. There are 4 Daemon lists that made top 20, 3 of which are FMC-spam. Daemon summoning is incidental to the list, not integral. What fears about 7th are founded again? Please don't be a fearmonger.
Getting those stims on the 3rd riptide does make sense. Also that one game where you had all those targeted psychic powers hit your deathstar made me think of the Arthas Moloch relic. But what is it, 35 points? Not sure its worth it in most games but man it woulda been nice to have in that game. Psychic shriek is so common locally its on my mind for the tau percolating in the back of my head (thanks to you and your batrep by the by, thinking of starting tau).
Talisman used to be too good but now it's kind of pointless, since Tau don't generate enough warp-charge to make it useful (unless you bring allies who do, but the only really good allies for Tau are Knights.)
The prevalence of Eldar is mostly due to the lack of good Tau players since FE is pretty much the best hard counter to any Wave Serpent based build, and the nerfing of O'vesa stopping him from forming the Tau deathstar = lack of Tau players.
The other bodyguards aren't worth it, they are horribly points inefficient, actually, that is a terrible use for O'Vesa even if it is ruled as legal. Also, they are ICs. BAO and NOVA ruled that joining O'Vesa last to a unit of ICs was not a loophole around it as since it all happens at the same time they are mutually exclusive. Its not an unfair ruling, and joining O'Vesa last is a clear tenuous loophole around RAW when RAI is clear.
Actually, across the entire tournament the Adamamantine lance was extremely powerful and the armies running it has a very good win percentage. It was extremely strong. I'm not sure where you are getting the Lance had a poor shoing at NOVA, quite the opposite was true. Were you there?
Pure Daemon Factory isn't that good, but there was a much greater prevalence of Daemon Summoning in the top bracket than Eldar. At almost every table you could readily see Summoned Daemons and in many cases the ability to cheaply and effectively summon additional scoring units and points of models broke scenarios. Even the GK/SM player was using Tigerious to Summon Daemons. I believe some of the Eldar were as well. When you walked the top tables you felt as if there was more Daemons than Eldar when you saw Daemons on basically every table. All of the Daemon and CSM players were. That fear of the ability to summon almost "free" points and its ability to negatively impact the game was very real.
For instance the Screamerstar Knight Rush list summoned SEVEN units in the game against me, and we called it in four turns. Seven units, that is a game breaking amount with relatively small investment into it. The FMC lists were summoning lots of Daemons in many of their games. What you are calling incidental to the lists, was integral to many of their wins. Again, were you actually at NOVA, or are you talking to talk?
The CSM/Daemons Rush list I ran into summoned at least four units and we didn't get to play a full game. Even Haley's FMCs were summoning though we called the game before we got that far.
The simple truth, summoning free units when it comes with almost no risk and no additional investment is an inherent problem especially when they are scoring.
And the reason we didn't see any true Daemon Factories is becasues the army takes too damned long to play and many just didn't bring them. The best armies aren't going to be Full Daemon Factories, but those that for a relatively small investment can do almost the same level of Summoning as a true Daemon Factory.
Should probably be able to realize everything isn't a personal attack against you. Only counter you have is were you there, and most of the time there asking a question to gain knowledge themselves
strickland05 wrote: You really are a condescending dick eh? Should probably be able to realize everything isn't a personal attack against you. Only counter you have is were you there, and most of the time there asking a question to gain knowledge themselves
Or I was correcting something that was spoken that was blatantly incorrect. To my knowledge he wasn't there, and his comments clearly indicated that.
I was actually trying to enlighten him without being a condescending dick as his comments were obviously misinformed and I'm rewarded by responses from the likes of you.
You are welcome to stop posting in this thread. I'm not going to engage you in conversation if you have nothing constructive or on topic to add. See e Dakka posting rules if you are unsure.
The other bodyguards aren't worth it, they are horribly points inefficient, actually, that is a terrible use for O'Vesa even if it is ruled as legal. Also, they are ICs. BAO and NOVA ruled that joining O'Vesa last to a unit of ICs was not a loophole around it as since it all happens at the same time they are mutually exclusive. Its not an unfair ruling, and joining O'Vesa last is a clear tenuous loophole around RAW when RAI is clear.
I'm not referring to the named bodyguards, I'm talking about a Crisis Bodyguard Team (max size 2, 32pts each) unlocked by taking a Tau Commander in FE. Of the named bodyguards, O'blotai the Broadside IC is actually very good value as getting Velocity+TLHYMP + 2 Missile drones+Seeker on an IC platform for 128 points isn't too bad, considering the same cost on a Tau commander is 135 without drones or TL..
How is it a terrible use to put O'vesa in to protect your buffsuit and other MP suits? You also get sworn protector for auto-pass look out sir, which is great. It's a flexible mini-deathstar which is hard to kill and slaughters FMC and Wave Serpents without hesitation, and is much better at weathering fire considering your tank isn't also your buffbot (not to mention adding the firepower of O'vesa). A ruling that directly targets nerfing the O'vesa star I'd say is unfair, the RAI is unclear because while joining an MC is verboten, O'vesa as an IC joining other ICs isn't. It's a ruling specifically punishing a single build which really isn't all that powerful and has resultedly pushed Tau out of top tier as a competitive army.
Actually, across the entire tournament the Adamamantine lance was extremely powerful and the armies running it has a very good win percentage. It was extremely strong. I'm not sure where you are getting the Lance had a poor shoing at NOVA, quite the opposite was true. Were you there?
The results themselves don't support this, there aren't any 3 Knight armies in the top 16 and the only one in the top 20 is piloted by Justin Cook. I think it doesn't have the tactical flexibility needed for the NOVA format. Do I have to be physically present to draw conclusions from the results?
Pure Daemon Factory isn't that good, but there was a much greater prevalence of Daemon Summoning in the top bracket than Eldar. At almost every table you could readily see Summoned Daemons and in many cases the ability to cheaply and effectively summon additional scoring units and points of models broke scenarios. Even the GK/SM player was using Tigerious to Summon Daemons. I believe some of the Eldar were as well. When you walked the top tables you felt as if there was more Daemons than Eldar when you saw Daemons on basically every table. All of the Daemon and CSM players were. That fear of the ability to summon almost "free" points and its ability to negatively impact the game was very real.
For instance the Screamerstar Knight Rush list summoned SEVEN units in the game against me, and we called it in four turns. Seven units, that is a game breaking amount with relatively small investment into it. The FMC lists were summoning lots of Daemons in many of their games. What you are calling incidental to the lists, was integral to many of their wins. Again, were you actually at NOVA, or are you talking to talk?
Again, the results don't bear this out: top 10 lists have only one summoning list, and it's one where summoning is incidental since they already have the facepunch of Knights/Grinders. Sure the Eldar summoned Daemons incidentally, but their lists are already strong without the additional units. Summoning is generally unreliable, especially getting Incursion; it's just inordinately strong against Tau since you generally don't have the firepower to deal with the additional units and have no dice to throw to DTW. If summoning was as effective as you purport it to be, we should be seeing the top lists dominated by summoning, not represented by 1 list in the top ten and 4 in the top 20. Not to mention TK won without summoning a single daemon...
No doubt the player got a lucky break with his psychic powers in your game, but you also failed to kill any of his Psykers when you had the chance to. It's simply the snowball effect of summoning, or early kills in 40k in general. I'm discussing based on battle report analysis (and not just your own), no need to get in a huff.
The CSM/Daemons Rush list I ran into summoned at least four units and we didn't get to play a full game. Even Haley's FMCs were summoning though we called the game before we got that far.
The simple truth, summoning free units when it comes with almost no risk and no additional investment is an inherent problem especially when they are scoring.
And the reason we didn't see any true Daemon Factories is becasues the army takes too damned long to play and many just didn't bring them. The best armies aren't going to be Full Daemon Factories, but those that for a relatively small investment can do almost the same level of Summoning as a true Daemon Factory.
Untrue, you can summon far more with a dedicated summoning list but at the cost of offence and effectiveness. The top Daemon lists are already strong on their own merits and summoning is just another aspect which helps them, but not inordinately so.
And no, I don't have to be at Nova to draw that conclusion.
Oh don't worry I'll post here, and we both know whAt you were doing, anyways, on another topic, and yes I apologize if I was incorrect. I usually run a list that is similar to yours, al be it a bit less missile suits, most of my Death Star shooting units are fusion and plasma, but I feel like missile pods add more versatility, due to range, non reliance on deep striker reserve rolls and such. Did you find that eight bs 5 essentially twin linked marker drones was to much, were you wasting hits? And also what would your thoughts be on adding farsight instead of the missile commander and using his bodyguard I understand that it would probably change the mechanic of your list, but did you find you would benifit from more suits, or less marker drones?
And since you are taking Farsight to get O'Vesa you are limited to a 2Suit Bodyguard team at the cost of a Commander. Two overpriced suits, filled with costly equipment, just to grant benefits to O'Vesa is quite points inefficient and less effective than a BuffCommander and crisis team. To each their own I suppose... Anyway, O'Vesa can't be in a unit with other ICs so the discussion was academic at best, pointless at worst.
There weren't any Adamantine Lances in the Top Bracket, but they were all over Bracket 2 and Bracket 3. Let's see, some Adamantine Lances lost in the first four to get bumped out by other lances. I know Reece knocked Neil out game one then got knocked out by Haley. Frankie beat two of them in back to back games knocking both into Bracket 2. NOVA Terrain made moving knights difficult, but despite that, overall, the Adamantine Lance's win rate and average placing was very good. But, you can draw any conclusions you want, but you've got a limited data set plagued by variables. What isn't in doubt is the strength of the Adamantine Lance's showing overall, but please continue to draw your own conclusions and don't let reality dissuade you.
Twisting my point and disregarding how much Summoning was a part of those top lists and how well lists with summoning capabilities did overall doesn't matter. Nope, TK did summon anything and still own, because he is TK and ridiculously good. Pure Summoning is not as good as taking already strong armies and augmenting them with summoning. Minimal investment with a huge payout. And you still don't get that summoning really was present at many of the top tables and draw a completely different conclusion. The ability to summon additional units and additional points in units was huge, especially in the Points and Regions Mission. The mechanic itself is not a good one and initial 7th edition fears were warranted, just misdirected from pure Daemon factories to already strong armies immensely boosted by low investment Summoning. I've already said pure summoning is not the best, it's time prohibitive, has points of failure, etc, but for a marginal investment you can get a huge ROI out of adding Summoning to an already strong army.
Anyway, comment on topic or I'd be happy to continue the discussion elsewhere. I'm done with it here.
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strickland05 wrote: Oh don't worry I'll post here, and we both know whAt you were doing, anyways, on another topic, and yes I apologize if I was incorrect. I usually run a list that is similar to yours, al be it a bit less missile suits, most of my Death Star shooting units are fusion and plasma, but I feel like missile pods add more versatility, due to range, non reliance on deep striker reserve rolls and such. Did you find that eight bs 5 essentially twin linked marker drones was to much, were you wasting hits? And also what would your thoughts be on adding farsight instead of the missile commander and using his bodyguard I understand that it would probably change the mechanic of your list, but did you find you would benifit from more suits, or less marker drones?
8 average ML hits can be too much, but those Marker Drones also worked as cheap Ablative Wounds for the squad and keeping those 16 Twinlinked Tank/Monster Hunting Ignores cover shots firing every turn was more important. Plums 8MLs was always useful against some targets and 8 with Snap shots has proved to be useful when making snap shots. The range was a huge assets as I had to rely on DSing Fusion and Markerlights to handle hard targets.
IMO a Farsight Bomb is an entirely different animal. I don't like losing the initial turn of the PEN, but the Bomb certainly puts out the hurt. I feel you can make an absurdly strong BOMB with Farsight and Shadowsun, using a mix of MPs, FBs, and PRs with gun Drones and a BuffCommander(or Buff Suit) the unit can deploy and be so hard to catch. Then using a pair of Skurays for support and a couple of Aristides. It's a huge move away from a crisis list, but should prove to be hugely effective. It's just concerning that some lists pose huge problems for it or the Adamantine Lance or rapid assault armies.
For how I was building the list, I found the 8 Marker Drones essential and bumped my original 6 Marker Drone list up to it within the first couple of games in 7th edition.
Ya, I agree with the shadow sun bomb, that's not really where I was heading though, I was thinking keeping the allied tau detachment for buffmander, and using farsight instead of your missile commander, which I see the draw backs, losing four bs 5 missiles, but you gin the ability to add one maybe two suits, at a premium of ten points, some close combat ability, not much but, I was charged by a lucky knight charge roll and over watch combined with tank hunting armour bane managed to strip the remaining three hull points, not ideal, as the explosion would and could destroy the unit. Just a thought, and could be a bad one, I'll have to play test it, and I to usually use 6 marker drones, I'll have to try the eight, also I agree with your original a assessment of burst tides way more versatile. And warlord traits, iv thought of master of ambush and have really tried to make use of it, I'm sure you've seen that it's situational but when it works out it swings the game
strickland05 wrote: Ya, I agree with the shadow sun bomb, that's not really where I was heading though, I was thinking keeping the allied tau detachment for buffmander, and using farsight instead of your missile commander, which I see the draw backs, losing four bs 5 missiles, but you gin the ability to add one maybe two suits, at a premium of ten points, some close combat ability, not much but, I was charged by a lucky knight charge roll and over watch combined with tank hunting armour bane managed to strip the remaining three hull points, not ideal, as the explosion would and could destroy the unit. Just a thought, and could be a bad one, I'll have to play test it, and I to usually use 6 marker drones, I'll have to try the eight, also I agree with your original a assessment of burst tides way more versatile. And warlord traits, iv thought of master of ambush and have really tried to make use of it, I'm sure you've seen that it's situational but when it works out it swings the game
I see where you are going. I love Farsight and ran him without his command Team in 6th. No Scatter DS was great for Fusion suits or my dual Burst Squads. I originally still had him in there, but when I made the transition to the Shooting Deathstar I wasn't willing to pay the premium for Bodyguards to get close to the same amount of shooting and found the Velocity tracker addition really nice to turn an army with good AA I to one with Great AA. I love Farsight and he has been greatly missed, but I opted to go more all in with the MO Commander.
Interestingly enough, that squad was seen at ETC, except with their ability to control matchups they doubled down with two MP Commanders. Clauss or Gonyo was telling me about it, I don't remember what team was running it to good effect.
If you have first turn Master of Ambush is awesome. Also, if I think my opponent is going for it, I try and get it as we'll as a defensive measure. At NOVA I kept getting it on my reroll as my initial trait was useless and of course I never had first turn to take advantage of it. It's hard to go wrong with Strategic in general though.
Stretegic is the best, if you don't mind I'm going to switch out my fusion suits with missile pods, I had almost the exact setup but with fusion blasters, and try out more marker drones
strickland05 wrote: Stretegic is the best, if you don't mind I'm going to switch out my fusion suits with missile pods, I had almost the exact setup but with fusion blasters, and try out more marker drones
Strategic definitely is pretty awesome in general.
Feel free, and I'd like to know how it turns out for you. It suits my play style, I liked deploying three Riptides and the BuffCommander MP unit denying my opponents first blood. It was a resilient firebase with the ability to hurt a wide array of targets. Lots of ObSec scoring in reserves and DSing Fusion for special targets was pretty reliable and effective against most lists.
IMO a Farsight Bomb is an entirely different animal. I don't like losing the initial turn of the PEN, but the Bomb certainly puts out the hurt. I feel you can make an absurdly strong BOMB with Farsight and Shadowsun, using a mix of MPs, FBs, and PRs with gun Drones and a BuffCommander(or Buff Suit) the unit can deploy and be so hard to catch. Then using a pair of Skurays for support and a couple of Aristides. It's a huge move away from a crisis list, but should prove to be hugely effective. It's just concerning that some lists pose huge problems for it or the Adamantine Lance or rapid assault armies.
Interesting that you mention about Adlance and fast assault armies as it is something I often struggle with when theory hammering with my farsight bomb. I tend to max out skyrays (taking four at 1750+) rather than going down the riptides route, but I am considering using them as they provide a greater ground presence and flexibility over the skyrays. I take it you use your riptides as a method of tying up some assault elements? Do you feel you could use some blocking elements? I have made reasonable use of kroot (for pushing back infils and scouts), crisis + drones for bubble wrapping along with piranhas and to some extent skyrays. The vehicles have proved useful against knights as they can be sacrificed to create additional terrain (wrecks) which can hamper their movement.
I'm a huge fan of the buffmander, or at least an iridium shielded stimulant commander, a lot of people ask why I wouldn't put it on a bodyguard or similar suit, but it don't know what it is, I agree with the fact that somehow it seems to be more durable than a riptide, iv had entire army shoot at him and not kill him. He is usually the MVP. Anyways congrats on the tournament 5th is a great placing and I enjoyed your play style
IMO a Farsight Bomb is an entirely different animal. I don't like losing the initial turn of the PEN, but the Bomb certainly puts out the hurt. I feel you can make an absurdly strong BOMB with Farsight and Shadowsun, using a mix of MPs, FBs, and PRs with gun Drones and a BuffCommander(or Buff Suit) the unit can deploy and be so hard to catch. Then using a pair of Skurays for support and a couple of Aristides. It's a huge move away from a crisis list, but should prove to be hugely effective. It's just concerning that some lists pose huge problems for it or the Adamantine Lance or rapid assault armies.
Interesting that you mention about Adlance and fast assault armies as it is something I often struggle with when theory hammering with my farsight bomb. I tend to max out skyrays (taking four at 1750+) rather than going down the riptides route, but I am considering using them as they provide a greater ground presence and flexibility over the skyrays. I take it you use your riptides as a method of tying up some assault elements? Do you feel you could use some blocking elements? I have made reasonable use of kroot (for pushing back infils and scouts), crisis + drones for bubble wrapping along with piranhas and to some extent skyrays. The vehicles have proved useful against knights as they can be sacrificed to create additional terrain (wrecks) which can hamper their movement.
I sometimes find myself in a position where I have to sacrifice a Riptide, oh how I wish they were fearless. In two of those games I had to do it, once against the SpawnStar and against the ScreamerStar. Usually I can put the hurt on most fast assault elements, especially if I can get first turn, but sometimes, you have to sacrifice something and try and scoot away from the rest. Riptides often fold in combat, but there are some targets they can tarpit fairly well. I also will choose Stubborn for my Pen, take the hit, then try and Hit and Run out. I had to do that against the Hounds twice and it has proven to be successful. Sometimes they make a charge before I get stubborn up and I'm in trouble, sometimes it works out.
I think the Bomb struggles with the Adamantine Lance because they can make the facing you land on basically unkillable. The best solution is to land your Bomb with no scatter splitting two arcs on two different Knights so you are guarenteed to have some of your fusion in at least one unshielded Arc. Then, if you can kill one, hit the unshielded arc of the Center Knight. Skyrays can work, but you have to just hide them and wait until turn 2 when your Bomb diverts their shields before blowing their load. That may end up with some dead Skyrays that never fire, but against the Lance a constant stream of firepower doesn't do it, it has to be a decisive amount of firepower in a single turn to break it. Otherwise its just too resilient.
The problem with dropping Riptides for Skyrays is that the Riptides need support and the Skyrays give support, they are an apples and oranges problem. I'd look at 2x Skyrays and an ECPA HBCTide. The ECPA HBC doesn't require much support and become effective BS10 with only 2 Markerlights. That gives you a bit more ground presence, some more resilient and mid game firepower, and doesn't tax your support too much.
I definitely could use some bubble wrap units and one thing I failed to do at the tournament was use my Firewarriors in a sacrificial capacity. I could have used them spread out to screen either the Hounds or Spawn in my 3rd game. They wouldn't have helped against any other opponent as First Blood is a huge part of my Strategy and putting something killable down really hurts me there. I think I chose and got First Blood in every single game at NOVA with my list except against Haley's Nurgle Princes, otherwise I went 7 for 8 getting first blood by denying any easy kills with my list. In the past, I have used my Dual Burst Squad as bubble wrap against fast assault armies especially Khorne rush etc, I didn't in game 3 as I needed them to DS into his backfield and try and take out his Summoners otherwise i would have used them against his Hounds and stood a much better chance of taking out the whole unit by turn 2. In retrospect, it may have been the better play and would have allowed me to press forward instead of being hemmed in so bad as his Scouting Hounds couldn't have assaulted me turn 1.
strickland05 wrote:I'm a huge fan of the buffmander, or at least an iridium shielded stimulant commander, a lot of people ask why I wouldn't put it on a bodyguard or similar suit, but it don't know what it is, I agree with the fact that somehow it seems to be more durable than a riptide, iv had entire army shoot at him and not kill him. He is usually the MVP. Anyways congrats on the tournament 5th is a great placing and I enjoyed your play style
I am as well, I've been running the same BuffCommander setup since mid 6th. I love his ability to Tank, in 6th he would be attached to a Riptide making them deadly, then he would bounce over to whatever Riptide was most hurt and Tank for it often keeping my firebase unhampered all game. In 7th he got put into a dual MP Crisis unit, man T4 really means he has a ton more wounds headed his way, but overall he is still very effective at keeping the unit alive and with LOS to Drones most opponenets just ignore the unit which comes at its own risks.
And since you are taking Farsight to get O'Vesa you are limited to a 2Suit Bodyguard team at the cost of a Commander. Two overpriced suits, filled with costly equipment, just to grant benefits to O'Vesa is quite points inefficient and less effective than a BuffCommander and crisis team. To each their own I suppose... Anyway, O'Vesa can't be in a unit with other ICs so the discussion was academic at best, pointless at worst.
1) It's not less efficient, it's more efficient as you don't have to pay the Fire Warrior tax and give up your ally slot. Anyway, attaching ICs is allowed over here so the attached ICs make it work.
2) Having the buffcommander tank as well as buff is a bad idea since all it takes is one ID shot to make you lose a game.
There weren't any Adamantine Lances in the Top Bracket, but they were all over Bracket 2 and Bracket 3. Let's see, some Adamantine Lances lost in the first four to get bumped out by other lances. I know Reece knocked Neil out game one then got knocked out by Haley. Frankie beat two of them in back to back games knocking both into Bracket 2. NOVA Terrain made moving knights difficult, but despite that, overall, the Adamantine Lance's win rate and average placing was very good. But, you can draw any conclusions you want, but you've got a limited data set plagued by variables. What isn't in doubt is the strength of the Adamantine Lance's showing overall, but please continue to draw your own conclusions and don't let reality dissuade you.
'There weren't any Adamantaine Lances in the Top Bracket' says it all doesn't it? It's showing shows it's not that strong... I'm not sure what other conclusions you can draw from this other than you like to talk down to people who question you.
Twisting my point and disregarding how much Summoning was a part of those top lists and how well lists with summoning capabilities did overall doesn't matter. Nope, TK did summon anything and still own, because he is TK and ridiculously good. Pure Summoning is not as good as taking already strong armies and augmenting them with summoning. Minimal investment with a huge payout. And you still don't get that summoning really was present at many of the top tables and draw a completely different conclusion. The ability to summon additional units and additional points in units was huge, especially in the Points and Regions Mission. The mechanic itself is not a good one and initial 7th edition fears were warranted, just misdirected from pure Daemon factories to already strong armies immensely boosted by low investment Summoning. I've already said pure summoning is not the best, it's time prohibitive, has points of failure, etc, but for a marginal investment you can get a huge ROI out of adding Summoning to an already strong army.
So being TK>Summoning? If it was that effective a strategy, don't you think he would use it? Every psyker has access to summoning, so the minimum investment here = access to a Psyker. Summoning is unreliable, rolling Incursion is unreliable, and getting perils is a quite likely. Just because summoning was effective against you doesn't make it the game breaking threat of 7th that everyone was whining about. Obviously summoning in Points and Regions missions is a big deal, just as summoning in a KP scenario is terrible. The point being that summoning isn't as broken as you think it is, and you seem to be the only player complaining about it, which in threads like this have a bigger effect causing other players to start as well.
Anyway, comment on topic or I'd be happy to continue the discussion elsewhere. I'm done with it here.
This entire discussion is on topic. If you're done because you're wrong, then by all means concede.
1. No, just no. Its less firepower, less overall support, on a flimsier platform. Just a little bit of barrage removes your ability to buff the unit. Fire Warriors aren't useless, they are scoring units that bring some firepower to the table and are useful for snagging backfield objectives. They sneak on and hold objectives just like Cultist except they have useful ranged weaponry.
2. Not in the slightest. I've been using a Tanking BuffCommander competitively for over a year and only once, at NOVA, was it ever IDed at range and that was due to Enfeeble. Far more often have I faced Barrage that could have taken it out easily had it been a simple Suit. TFCs, Orbital Bombardments, Night Spinners, and Wyverns make your Buffing Bodyguard a terrible idea. Hell, any readily available long ranged Barrage would eliminate your buff suit quickly, then all you are left with is overpriced an optimized O'Vesa. I'll pass. Now, if you are able to add O'Vesa to another unit, O'Vesa, Buffcommander, in an MP Crisis unit is much more effective and more optimized although it makes it more difficult to have the unit double in a Support role and changes the entire dynamic of an army designed around it.
Yes, none in the top bracket, but all had a very very good showing overall. Every Adamantine Lance had a winning record and there were many in Brackets 2 and 3. Your method of drawing conclusions leaves much to be desired. You can't argue the Adamantine Lance didn't have a strong showing, but you take its not being present in the top bracket as evidence it wasn't very strong, which is far from the case. Matchups and pairing came into play not to mention NOVA's format and terrain are a hindrance to Knights and despite those factors it had a very strong showing across the board.. I don't like to talk down to people, but do prefer intelligent conversation.
And now your argument had just devolved into incoherent dribble. Please learn how to format a coherent and valid argument. It is painful to read.
I was not alone in my thinking, Daemon Summoning and its strength was widely discussed at NOVA. You have failed to impress me on just about every level with your lack of ability to formulate a coherent argument and respond in an objective and rational manner.
I have the feeling you aren't going to stop talking now because you have a need to continue and prove me round, but this is not the place for a full discussion of Daemon Summoning. I've relayed my experiences with it at NOVA as well as its prevalence at the top tables.
I am not conceding because I am wrong. I am going to stop engaging with you because its not worth my time to continue.
So here is my nice request, please stop posting here unless its directly relevant. Any other post will not get a response, there are other threads and forums for that as it has been railroaded off topic.
Loving all the insight you are putting in to the responses Zagman. 5th at NOVA is awesome! Congrats again
One thing I've noticed after play testing your list a couple times is just what you responded with in your last reply. Barrage... It seems if my opponent uses the plethora of Barrages to bombard my suits the little mini-shooty deathstar starts to loose a lot of firepower. The loss of a single Crisis Suit with dual MPs or even 2 starts to really wreck on the list.
Any advice to circumvent this? Surely after a year+ of testing this and playing this little deathstar you've overcome it somehow? It's one of the things I struggle with still.
syypher wrote: Loving all the insight you are putting in to the responses Zagman. 5th at NOVA is awesome! Congrats again
One thing I've noticed after play testing your list a couple times is just what you responded with in your last reply. Barrage... It seems if my opponent uses the plethora of Barrages to bombard my suits the little mini-shooty deathstar starts to loose a lot of firepower. The loss of a single Crisis Suit with dual MPs or even 2 starts to really wreck on the list.
Any advice to circumvent this? Surely after a year+ of testing this and playing this little deathstar you've overcome it somehow? It's one of the things I struggle with still.
I've only had since 7th dropped with this unit, so a couple of months, but I've been running a similar overall army since FE dropped in 6th though my last iteration didn't have the barrage weakenss.
Barrage plain and simple sucks to face for this army, luckily there isn't that much of it out in the Meta outside of Orbital Bombardemnt on a Chapter Master, Wyverns, and Thunderfire Cannons, and Night Spinners. The answer as usual is it depends. It depends on just how much Barrage your opponent has and just what kind it is.
The best plan is going first and trying to nuke the units with Barrage. Wyverns for example can be taken out if you go first. If they are corner deployed you can get around them if possible. Deploying in a Ruins helps, a 4+Cover(3+Night Fight) can really limit the damage done and give the unit a turn it needs to hit the opponent. Going first is great because if you can weather one turn, you can drop Fusion to neutralize the threat.
Orbital Bombardment is rough, at least most of the time is on a Beaststick ChapterMaster who is more concerned with getting into combat or having his accompanying Grav hit one of your Riptides to worry about it. Even spread out a hit can be really painful, just make sure your Dual MP Commander is at the back and can LOS to Drones and your BuffCommander is in the Front and can LOS to Drones and most of the time you will survive with some firepower in tact.
TFCs hurt, at least they are only small blasts and don't ignore your armor saves or covers saves depending on where you deploy and their mode of fire. They also can be taken out with Riptides fairly well. Weather and eliminate if possible.
Night Spinners are tough but manageable, they rend but they normally grant an armor save, so spreading the unit out can mitigate how much gets hit and suits can tank a few wounds as they are I4 as a unit with the drone so the NightSpinner isn't too terrible. If you can get range, your MPStar will drop two in a single turn just like Wave Serpents.
For Wyverns and Spinners, a single Pen can stop them from firing which is huge, if they can't fire that turn, you've done your job.
If you are facing a ton of Barrage, you can reserve the unit and just deploy 3 Riptides. Target the Barrage and then bring on the MP unit. I haven't had to do it yet, but it can work and only exists in my brain in theory. Lots of barrage is a pretty good counter to that unit, luckily not that many armies are using a lot of barrage currently. Now, if they know what you are bringing, expect them to double down on it. Anything that is a relatively soft target with Barrage is usually one of the first targets and will need to be dealt with. Heck, in game 7 its the reason I dropped the Dual Burst Squad on the Wyverns, because they needed to die. Of course, they misshaped and got placed in my far corner, but I had to try as my 2nd unit of Fusion didn't come in.
Sorry my response was pretty disjointed, I am in a bit of a rush between clients.
There weren't any Adamantine Lances in the Top Bracket, but they were all over Bracket 2 and Bracket 3. Let's see, some Adamantine Lances lost in the first four to get bumped out by other lances. I know Reece knocked Neil out game one then got knocked out by Haley. Frankie beat two of them in back to back games knocking both into Bracket 2. NOVA Terrain made moving knights difficult, but despite that, overall, the Adamantine Lance's win rate and average placing was very good. But, you can draw any conclusions you want, but you've got a limited data set plagued by variables. What isn't in doubt is the strength of the Adamantine Lance's showing overall, but please continue to draw your own conclusions and don't let reality dissuade you.
'There weren't any Adamantaine Lances in the Top Bracket' says it all doesn't it? It's showing shows it's not that strong... I'm not sure what other conclusions you can draw from this other than you like to talk down to people who question you.
I just wanted to chime in as one of the Adlance players at NOVA. There were no Lances in bracket one however there were 3 in bracket two (myself, James Watkins, and Neil) and I believe 2 in bracket three (Reece and Jesse Newton). I missed bracket one by a single battlepoint. By the end of day 2 I had the highest battlepoints in the tournament at 77 through 6 games (90 pts maximum) and finished at 101 of 120, 1 point shy of battlemaster. I also scored max points in 3 of my 4 bracket games in bracket two which had no easy players either (its still the top 32 players in the event). I didn't score less than 9 out of 15 points in any of my games, and the two games I did lose were by a combined total of 1 battlepoint and 300 vps on tiebreaker against good players as well. I also had zero playtesting with this army. From all of this data I would say the Lance certainly is strong, and while it didn't make top bracket it certainly was a contender throughout the tournament. Keep in mind I never played against necrons, which is a known bad matchup for this or any knight-style list. So I'm not trying to poo-poo on your analysis that Lance 'isn't that strong' but I wanted to give more data regarding it as I feel that simply 'not making top bracket' isn't an adequate litmus test of its tournament viability.
Apologize for messing these quotes all up, I'm pretty bad with the quote system.
Thanatos. While any given result can be ignored as a outlier, the fact that none of Adamantine Lances made bracket 1 shows that the build is not a good enough TAC list. Individual skill may play a huge role in how good your army does, but something is obviously missing from the list's ability to handle the scenarios.
Adlance is a tough build to play against. However, as with any deathstar-type builds, it is a rather unbalanced build as well and will have some potentially problematic matchups.
Now with that said, I decided to give the Adlance a try. I then proceeded to pound on the seer council not once, but twice, into submission. Now does that mean anything? Not really, other than the fact that it can go head-on with some of the other more competitive armies.
Fragile wrote: Thanatos. While any given result can be ignored as a outlier, the fact that none of Adamantine Lances made bracket 1 shows that the build is not a good enough TAC list. Individual skill may play a huge role in how good your army does, but something is obviously missing from the list's ability to handle the scenarios.
Statistics fail.
The only thing we can really conclude with any degree of confidence is that the Adamantine Lance is strong due to its overall win/loss record, and it's frequency in the top brackets. Sure, it our limited data set it did not have a place in the top bracket, but it's overall very high placing in relation to its frequency is much more significant.
In the top four, we have two people who were 3-1 and bracketed up. So half of our eventual top four had the same W/L record as most of the Adamanatine Lances before being bracketed up. As three 3-1s did get bracketed up, we can look at the data set in terms of how many Adamantine Lances were in contention for the top Bracket and missed out only by tie breakers.
Basically the data set doesn't support some of the sweeping conclusions being presented and certainly doesn't "show" your position to be correct and makes it very tenuous at best.
I can say with 100% certainty that summoning is fantastic. As a whole, the primaris power is superior to incursion for versatility. Everyone can get the primaris ALWAYS.
The issue I think with most summoning is they rely entirely on summoning for their damage output. When you're rolling round the table with pink horrors and tzeentch Heralds, it isn't much.
That's why all of the demons in the top bracket were summoning with already established bearer units, whether they were princes or knight titans and soul grinders.
To summarily dismiss summoning is ignorant at best.
I was in 5th overall with summoning prior to dropping after the second day.
I just wanted to chime in as one of the Adlance players at NOVA. There were no Lances in bracket one however there were 3 in bracket two (myself, James Watkins, and Neil) and I believe 2 in bracket three (Reece and Jesse Newton). I missed bracket one by a single battlepoint. By the end of day 2 I had the highest battlepoints in the tournament at 77 through 6 games (90 pts maximum) and finished at 101 of 120, 1 point shy of battlemaster. I also scored max points in 3 of my 4 bracket games in bracket two which had no easy players either (its still the top 32 players in the event). I didn't score less than 9 out of 15 points in any of my games, and the two games I did lose were by a combined total of 1 battlepoint and 300 vps on tiebreaker against good players as well. I also had zero playtesting with this army. From all of this data I would say the Lance certainly is strong, and while it didn't make top bracket it certainly was a contender throughout the tournament. Keep in mind I never played against necrons, which is a known bad matchup for this or any knight-style list. So I'm not trying to poo-poo on your analysis that Lance 'isn't that strong' but I wanted to give more data regarding it as I feel that simply 'not making top bracket' isn't an adequate litmus test of its tournament viability.
Apologize for messing these quotes all up, I'm pretty bad with the quote system.
What difficulties did you face with the Adlance? I'm curious to find out.
I just wanted to chime in as one of the Adlance players at NOVA. There were no Lances in bracket one however there were 3 in bracket two (myself, James Watkins, and Neil) and I believe 2 in bracket three (Reece and Jesse Newton). I missed bracket one by a single battlepoint. By the end of day 2 I had the highest battlepoints in the tournament at 77 through 6 games (90 pts maximum) and finished at 101 of 120, 1 point shy of battlemaster. I also scored max points in 3 of my 4 bracket games in bracket two which had no easy players either (its still the top 32 players in the event). I didn't score less than 9 out of 15 points in any of my games, and the two games I did lose were by a combined total of 1 battlepoint and 300 vps on tiebreaker against good players as well. I also had zero playtesting with this army. From all of this data I would say the Lance certainly is strong, and while it didn't make top bracket it certainly was a contender throughout the tournament. Keep in mind I never played against necrons, which is a known bad matchup for this or any knight-style list. So I'm not trying to poo-poo on your analysis that Lance 'isn't that strong' but I wanted to give more data regarding it as I feel that simply 'not making top bracket' isn't an adequate litmus test of its tournament viability.
Apologize for messing these quotes all up, I'm pretty bad with the quote system.
What difficulties did you face with the Adlance? I'm curious to find out.
Well wraithknights are kinda scary, Frankie's went crazy and killed 1k of my army (i had a knight explode on top of a riptide after scattering 12 inches), and my other loss was to double wraithknight. The 2nd loss was more poor positioning on my part as i was trying to castle one corner with knights and the other with riptides (it was the corners mission and i didn't give enough respect to my own speed, so deployed incorrectly). But I think the wraithknight/iknight standoff is pretty real and both sides of that fight have a clear intimidation factor. Frankie's 1 wraithknight killed 2 iknights before either ever got to swing due to canny positioning on his part. Then again in game 5 I had a wraithknight charge in and due a whopping 2 hp, then get d-slapped for like 15 wounds. So its a tossup IMO. I handled screamerstar pretty easily even though my opponent had some untimely dice rolls and didn't summon nearly enough to get a critical mass of threats on the table. I also demolished double beastpack and beat a 25ish model thunderwolf star with 6ish hammers/fists just due to some timely 6s on stomps, but also because i never had less than 2 knights engaged with his deathstar. I think its pretty obvious that flyer heavy crons would be a deathknell for this army, but there was surprisingly few of those. I think that's probably due to the meta being very oriented on putting boots on the ground, and deathstars which crons still don't handle so great, and also tau missileside spam in the form of the formation. That last one is brutal-I played flyer/double ccb crons in the invitational and got smoked game one by 9 broadside/2 riptide tau, it was a bad time. Then again i think my invitational list would probably beat my list for the open, but would have to play cautiously as if you don't knock out a knight or 2 on the commit turn you're probably dead.
That's the trouble with Knights I guess, with the way their results swing you either have amazing games with them or they just die quickly with no ceremony.
I'd thought that the TWC would stomp them with all those nasty str 10 attacks?
Also, don't Ion Shield rerolls pretty much make them invulnerable to Necron shooting?
Asmodai Asmodean wrote: That's the trouble with Knights I guess, with the way their results swing you either have amazing games with them or they just die quickly with no ceremony.
I'd thought that the TWC would stomp them with all those nasty str 10 attacks?
Also, don't Ion Shield rerolls pretty much make them invulnerable to Necron shooting?
Yeah that's true with regards to the knights performance, though with good positioning you should have the former happening more than the latter. Also with regards to necron shooting if you have a nightscythe with a unit of 5 warriors and a stormtek embarked you can maneuver in such a way that the scythe is hitting one armor facing while the tek/warriors hits another, thus ensuring that some shots will be hitting a non-shielded facing. Obviously you need multiples of this to take a knight out in a single turn, but it is accomplishable. Also if you are using terrain appropriately (especially nova terrain) you can get some cheap shot sweep attacks off with your command barges. That's more terrain dependent than anything, but it again is something you could in theory accomplish.
The thunderwolves still took out 2 and a half knights. The downfall of my opponent was that he never could isolate one and one turn kill it that cost him really painful retaliation. I was able to get multiple knights stomping him every turn, which meant eventual 6's were going to happen and when they did they were killing 400ish points at a shot. That quickly evened up the fight and lead to him being down to 2 cav models by turn 4 while I had a knight left with 4 hp. He charged in and did 1-2 hp with his last hammer and then got taken out between d swings and stomps.
krootman. wrote: Great bat reps, and I had a great time playing you. Congrats on first bracket with that tau list, was a pretty unconventional one!!
I had a blast playing you. I just wish chimeras had jink :(
Hey, you too! I had a blast playing you too. Thanks, I felt the list had a lot of good matchups and some really bad ones and I managed to sidestep most of the bad to make first bracket, then got pummeled hard in the first two games of that bracket!
krootman. wrote: Great bat reps, and I had a great time playing you. Congrats on first bracket with that tau list, was a pretty unconventional one!!
I had a blast playing you. I just wish chimeras had jink :(
Hey, you too! I had a blast playing you too. Thanks, I felt the list had a lot of good matchups and some really bad ones and I managed to sidestep most of the bad to make first bracket, then got pummeled hard in the first two games of that bracket!
Thanks again for stepping up game 7.
Yea having to play double guard blob round 2 hurt :/
just wishful asking 
