I was wondering what actually happens when someone fails a gets hot roll in the fluff; does it burn their hands off, does a large dose of radiation emit and fries the guy?
Has there ever been a guy who has killed themselves by using a plasma gun/pistol/cannon in any book? If not, how do you picture it happening?
It could be any reason as with anything "gets hot"
Id like to think the weapon fizzles out and the guy holding it takes it back to the field mechanic to get fixed rather than him dieing in a plasmaee death.
I always kind of pictured it like the one weapon in Halo that also suffers from "Gets Hot". Vents on the weapon spring open and shoot boiling-hot gases back at the firer once the safety threshold has been exceeded. If you're a guy in PA, no big deal. If you're in flak? Well, life sucks, and then you burn to death.
Psienesis wrote: I always kind of pictured it like the one weapon in Halo that also suffers from "Gets Hot". Vents on the weapon spring open and shoot boiling-hot gases back at the firer once the safety threshold has been exceeded. If you're a guy in PA, no big deal. If you're in flak? Well, life sucks, and then you burn to death.
That's what I like to think too. My best friend made an observation one day.
"it's hot enough to burn a spartan in power armor? that must be Really freaken hot!"
Plasma weapons turning into hand grenades isn't really that common in the lore as it is the TT, but I do recall it turning into a plasma grenade best lobbed at the enemy. I remember one Guardsmen dying, and it taking the hand off a CSM in another story.
Makes sense though, Guardsmen or Eldar should drop instantly from that due to the lack of protection/sufficient protection. Only thing I would expect to survive the radiation is an Exarch or a Space Marine wearing a helmet.
Psienesis wrote: I always kind of pictured it like the one weapon in Halo that also suffers from "Gets Hot". Vents on the weapon spring open and shoot boiling-hot gases back at the firer once the safety threshold has been exceeded. If you're a guy in PA, no big deal. If you're in flak? Well, life sucks, and then you burn to death.
That's what I like to think too. My best friend made an observation one day.
"it's hot enough to burn a spartan in power armor? that must be Really freaken hot!"
Human plasma weapons burn at a temperature of around twenty million degrees Fahrenheit, IE the same temperature of a solar flare IIRC.
Desubot wrote: Wouldn't the existence of something that hot and of that size be enough to essentially go nuclear and in a relative distance besides personal space?
While I am sorely undereducated when it comes to the physics of incredibly intense heat, I'm pretty sure that given the small size of a plasma shot, it lacks the mass to fry everything in the vicinity like a miniature star would.
The mass isn't the issue, it's the convection of heat. It could be sub-atomic, but if it were 20 million degrees, it'd be lethal in an Earth-like atmosphere for kilometers.
It really would depend on how much and how fast it burns out id figure (though im not a physicist)
I know some animals can create some rediculus heat within the frame of less than a instant.
but plasma guns are not the size of mantis shrimps
Edit: Also dont think it works like a plasma cutter as the plasma is created within the ark of a electrical current. it seems like the plasma gun creates a bunch of ultra heated gas within a magnetic field that some how travels and explodes at the target destination.
One would imagine that these guys would be smart enough to not fire the weapon until it explodes.
I mean, modern troops are trained not to melt their machinegun barrels by overuse. Seems like it would be fairly easy to not kill yourself with the gun, heh.
I kinda liked the Necromunda rules for them. Low power shots at a lower S and save mod. High power shots required a turn of cooldown.
Veteran Sergeant wrote: One would imagine that these guys would be smart enough to not fire the weapon until it explodes.
I mean, modern troops are trained not to melt their machinegun barrels by overuse. Seems like it would be fairly easy to not kill yourself with the gun, heh.
I kinda liked the Necromunda rules for them. Low power shots at a lower S and save mod. High power shots required a turn of cooldown.
Or they could be like the Germans in WWII and just handed a sack of replacement barrels and told to go nuts.
Co'tor Shas wrote: Well, lighting is hotter than the surface of the sun (IIRC), but it is there for such a small amount of time it has no affect out of where it hit.
indeed you can get some crazy temps even in machines today (god i love using plasma cutters. such a satisfying wooooooosh!)
The real question is how exactly a plasma gun works in 40k and what a malfunction could look like.
Co'tor Shas wrote: Well, lighting is hotter than the surface of the sun (IIRC), but it is there for such a small amount of time it has no affect out of where it hit.
indeed you can get some crazy temps even in machines today (god i love using plasma cutters. such a satisfying wooooooosh!)
The real question is how exactly a plasma gun works in 40k and what a malfunction could look like.
Pretty simple. Like with a lot of plasma weapons in fiction, I believe it's just a ball of plasma held together in an electromagnetic jacket.
Desubot wrote: Well i was looking for more specifics like mass, volume and temp of the plasma ball. then you could really calculate out the actual damage it can do.
It's 40k. There is no consistent calc. This is the same universe that may have 19 Megajoule Lasguns depending on what Megathules are.
Psienesis wrote: I always kind of pictured it like the one weapon in Halo that also suffers from "Gets Hot". Vents on the weapon spring open and shoot boiling-hot gases back at the firer once the safety threshold has been exceeded. If you're a guy in PA, no big deal. If you're in flak? Well, life sucks, and then you burn to death.
This. Those vents on the barrel component emit gas in the Space Marine video game (which is canon!) when you trigger the cool down.
I recall fluff that indicates the gun doesn't blow up or become unusable. There was something about the rifle out living the user!
Besides, the fact that it effectively damages the user while the gun itself suffers no ill effect (since it can get hot multiple times on the same user provided the user survives his saves) it makes sense that it is an emergency venting and not a critical failure.
The orks mulled about in the ruins across from the space marines. Brother Cecil aimed his plasma cannon, and the squad tensed as he pulled the trigger. At first, nothing. No explosion, no screaming, no dead xenos, the only sound being the humming from Cecil's cannon. The humming grew louder and louder as the gun malfunctioned and began to melt down. Cecil looked at the gun in his hand just moments before the container was breached, and the plasma expanded in a small explosion. As the smoke cleared, all that remained was the charred husk of Brother Cecil.
Co'tor Shas wrote: Well, lighting is hotter than the surface of the sun (IIRC), but it is there for such a small amount of time it has no affect out of where it hit.
It is, but a plasma weapon is (compared to a lightning bolt) around for much longer (especially over comparative distances). The ball of plasma exists for a not-inconsiderable span of a few seconds... that's enough time for it to transmit a goodly portion of its 20+ million degree temperature into the surrounding air, which then transmits that into anything in its airspace. Even if it was only 1% of its heat, that's still 200,000 degrees. That's fething hot.
Well, seeing as the gun remains usable after getting hot if it didn't kill the user, I can't imagine it fails in a way that destroys the gun. At the most extreme example in game terms, an Iron Hands character could have a gun that gets hot an infinite number of times (IWND wound recovery beats Gets Hot wound dealing).
I think the emergency heat vent makes sense. This is the imperium, the gun is probably more valuable than the wielder.
I think it happened a couple of times in Dead Men Walking. They were fighting necrons and really having to pour the shots out, hence the guns overheated or the little reactor inside failed and vented all over the user. They aren't a perfected science. But yeah, pretty sure someone else just picked up the gun and kept shooting, lol. It's a risk reward mechanic for an overgrown board game. Don't over think things in 40k, or it becomes severely flawed quickly
Co'tor Shas wrote: Well, lighting is hotter than the surface of the sun (IIRC), but it is there for such a small amount of time it has no affect out of where it hit.
It is, but a plasma weapon is (compared to a lightning bolt) around for much longer (especially over comparative distances). The ball of plasma exists for a not-inconsiderable span of a few seconds... that's enough time for it to transmit a goodly portion of its 20+ million degree temperature into the surrounding air, which then transmits that into anything in its airspace. Even if it was only 1% of its heat, that's still 200,000 degrees. That's fething hot.
I doubt it would burn things for kilometers. Air is very cool and there is a lot of it. But you sure as gak would need heat protection if you're the poor sap firing it.
I guess the question is of how fast it flies. If it is very fast (not the slow-moving ball they like to show us), than the guy firing it should have relatively little to worry about, as long as the gun is properly heat-sheilded, and doesn't overhea-
It's also worth remembering that being removed as a casualty in a game of 40K doesn't necessarily equal DEAD.
The TT game doesn't cover things like broken arms, bad burns, etc. You could have a guy who is badly scalded and retreats for medical aid, or someone who gets a faceful of hot gases and needs bionic eyes. Then, given that these weapons are way more valuable than many users of them, you could also have the guy who sees that the weapon is malfunctioning and runs off the battlefield to preserve the weapon which is more expensive than he is.
I mean, when guys get shot in 40K, they never slowly bleed out, or get clipped in the leg. They die, or they are fine. The novels are full of injured guys staying behind to hold off the enemy, and that never happens on the TT either, but it doesn't seem to bother people nearly as much as a plasma gun overheat, even though the first is something that actually happens right now in the real world, and nobody has seen a plasma gun overheat, ever.
Yeah, I always imagined it just vented excess heat or something to prevent the gun from overheating, and at least in a guardsman's case, its just a matter of whether or not the vents are pointing at his face when it happens.
GreaterGoodIreland wrote:Just finished reading Faith & Fire, a Sororitas novel. It includes a plasma pistol exploding like a small grenade.
Just the way I like it
To be fair, that was when it was tossed into a psychic storm complete with flaring warp lightning.
The silly thing is that the reason it overheated was because it was fired continuously for about a minute at the same guy it killed by exploding next to his head...
I don't remember if it was in a codex or the 3rd Edition BRB but it was in that section of time, I remember reading that to reload a plasma gun, two canisters of very volatile elements have to unscrewed and replaced. Plasma pistols only have one visible so take that how you like. Anyway, if inserted improperly the cores go unstable or leak, hence 'Gets Hot'. Its easy to say the leak occurs over time until it actual does the leaking out, thus a saved wound instead of instant plasma explosion that kills the user.
I imagine that in normal operation the weapon either vents (which can kill) or a safety mechanism kicks in and it refuses to fire (which doesn't) - but there is also the potential for failure of a component, particularly if it was produced by a FW or manufacturer who isn't that great at working with high-tech, or it has been damaged during fighting, at which point it goes off like a plasma grenade. These three options would be covered by the "To Hit" and armour save rolls.
Also, with regards to similarity to lightning, Ball Lightning last a long time but doesn't burn off our atmosphere.
As others have mentioned, I think there's a wide range of situations that can occur with Imperial plasma weaponry.
The technologies for plasma engines, plasma drives, power plants, etc. seem to be fairly safe (provided no-one clamps a meltabomb to the side of the reactor, or stabs your Techpriest in the back) in the 40k universe so we have to assume either:
1 - miniaturized (vehicle-sized and smaller) plasma technology is either inherently more dangerous,
2 - the technology to properly manufacture 100% safe plasma weapons has been lost,
3 - the particular plasma weapons themselves are simply so ancient that they are beginning to fail.
It's pretty reasonable to believe that miniaturized plasma devices would be less stable, more prone to mechanical failure, and thus more dangerous. Large plasma reactors probably have very significant monitoring systems, cooling systems, and redundant failsafe procedures to prevent any kind of meltdown or explosion. It's probably very similar to how modern nuclear power plants are operated today. The same goes for plasma engines on starships or any kind of strategic-scale plasma weaponry; even though they produce much more power (and are therefore much more 'dangerous') they don't require portability and so can rely on heavy-duty, stationary safety features. Vehicle-borne or man-portable weapons, however, must sacrifice a great deal of weight and size to be usable on a battlefield, which almost always creates a greater degree of risk of component failure. Think about a desktop computer vs. a smartphone. With a good water-cooling system and high-speed fans, you could probably run a desktop in the middle of Death Valley (if you had power, of course). A smartphone, however, might shut down after 10 minutes in direct sunlight.
Some canon theorizes that since the Dark Age of Technology, the ability to manufacture 'proper' plasma technology has been lost completely. This being said, Forgeworlds are still able to manufacture close facsimiles of (what we can assume was) the STC variants of plasma guns, cannons, etc. using 'modern' technology adaptions. Unfortunately, these weapons pale in comparison to their ancestors and, as such, are prone to overheating, failing, or exploding (depending on what is necessary for the plot). Perhaps they have fragmentary schematics, have just tried to reverse-engineer ancient plasma relics (though it's unlikely they would be able to take them apart, given their 'holy' status), or maybe the materials are just too rare and expensive to keep up with the mass-production necessary to fuel the Imperial machine. Regardless of the reason, it may simply be that 'modern' plasma weapons are cheap knock-off versions that don't have the same quality as the plasma weapons from yesteryear.
Lastly (and least likely, in my opinion), it could be that the ability to manufacture miniaturized plasma weapons is lost completely. 40k canon often likes to talk about "jealously guarded relics" and "priceless artifacts" when referring to particularly fancy versions of weapons, so it's possible that every plasma weapon in service is theoretically one that was originally manufactured during the Dark Age of Tech, and has survived for thousands of years. If so, then either Imperial miniaturized plasma technology was always inherently dangerous—having nothing to do with modern copies—or the weapons that are still in service are getting towards the end of their operational lifespan and, despite the tender loving care of the Munitorium and Mechanicum, starting to fail. I find this version to be least likely because 1) even though plasma weapons are rare, there seem to be far more than would have survived for 10,000-20,000 years, 2) genuine relics of the Dark Age (owned by Space Marine Chapter Masters, Battlefleet Generals, etc.) tend to be described as much more reliable, and 3) the Mechanicum seems to have far more reliable plasma technology amongst its troops which, while not impossible to be all relics, seems a bit far fetched.
As for the effects, I agree with whoever mentioned the Halo plasma rifles. Overheating and failing (such that you burn out a coil, or a control mechanism) is probably the most likely situation. The next step up would probably be an emergency venting process that could potentially burn or scald the user. The worst case scenario would be the most dramatic and memorable, wherein the weapon explodes, or melts, or misfires and the bolt is lodged in the chamber. Logically this would be something that no armour could ever protect you from (we could assume the explosion would be at the same intensity of the firing profile) and a rare, though catastrophic, occurrence. The fact that people often don't realize that a Gets Hot! wound doesn't have an AP value in-game (at least in the 40k ruleset), probably leads me to believe that many people have the impression that the weapon explodes 1/6 of the time, which is probably fairly unlikely.
In case anyone was still interested in the thermodynamics of this, I belive what you are looking for is the energy transfer equation. (sorry it wont let me type superscript/subscript)
Q = m c t
where
Q = quantity of energy transferred (kJ, Btu)
m = mass of substance (kg, lb)
c = specific heat of the substance (kJ/kgoC, kJ/kgoK, Btu/lb oF)
t = temperature difference (rise or fall) in the substance (oC, K, oF)
So the key to this is that the specific heat of the substance (plasma) is super wicked hot
making the temp diff really significant
The saving quaility here is the mass of the substance (if it were subatomic then you would be kosher, if it were like golfball sized...well then yeah you are gunna have problems)
As long as the projectile that is leaving the containment feild (however they say they worked out containing raw plasma, or really didnt since they dont work all the time) is sufficently small you wont do things like ignite the atmosphere, and as long as it moved quick enough, it wouldnt cool down enough to lose effectivness at range.
(please correct me if i am wrong, it has been years since i have been in thermo)
The images of plasma we're given show something that ranges from tennis-ball size to roughly the size of a basketball, and travels slow enough to actually visually track it from point A to B.
We don't know how much of that "ball" is the actual plasma "bolt" and how much is the surrounding air suffering the effects of that minuscule point of intensely hot plasma. The slow-moving is a problem, as is the Space Marine game's depiction of a "charge shot" sticking to the target briefly before exploding.
One thing that puzzles me about Imperial plasma weapons is the blue glow of the coils. Why are they glowing blue? Surely any plasma would be generated in the firing process, not contained within the weapon.
Things don't glow blue (well, they do, but not like that) when they get hot. Those coils are made to look like a transparent flask filled with Star Trek warp core-stuff, otherwise known as "generic sci-fi functionless glowing". They're also blue even when the weapon has not been fired.
Because it looks cool. No other reason. It's kind of like Star Wars... good guys shoot blue, bad guys shoot red. Space Marines shoot blue, Necrons shoot green. Chaos shoots red. Tau shoot white-blue. Eldar shoot white. Dark Eldar shoot purple.
TheCustomLime wrote: Oh. Perhaps the coolant the Imperium uses glows? I don't know. I think it's silly myself and I prefer just painting the coils metal.
Same! I like to think of the coils as part of the magnetic propulsion of the weapon rather than coolant.
Stupid rule anyway, who would use a gun that has a 17% chance of misfiring every time it is fired? Maybe the Imperium wouldn't care about Guardsmen but makes no sense to select, train, genetically modify, provide years of combat experience, give a holy relic suit of armour to a Space Marine and then arm him with such an unreliable weapon.
What I never get is why on earth would you equip masses of troops with a gun that will kill them with 1 out of 6 shots it takes? That's just moronic! And a gun that can get to critical heat levels in just 1 shot? Seriously?
Never have I seen in books a plasma gun kill its bearer with the first shot it takes.
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tyrannosaurus wrote: Stupid rule anyway, who would use a gun that has a 17% chance of misfiring every time it is fired? Maybe the Imperium wouldn't care about Guardsmen but makes no sense to select, train, genetically modify, provide years of combat experience, give a holy relic suit of armour to a Space Marine and then arm him with such an unreliable weapon.
It was a much more stable technology in the past. This is noted as one of the reasons that the planet Ryza is so important, it is the last bastion of plasmatech comprehension (such as it is) in the Imperium.
For a start though it means 'veterans' can not possibly have a lot of experience with plasma weaponary - unless they are as lucky as a lottery winner.
Secondly, if you knew a gun had an incredibly high chance of killing you if you fired it - you would be more scared of it than you would the opponent, that's no fit state of mind to go into battle with!
Poly Ranger wrote: For a start though it means 'veterans' can not possibly have a lot of experience with plasma weaponary - unless they are as lucky as a lottery winner.
Secondly, if you knew a gun had an incredibly high chance of killing you if you fired it - you would be more scared of it than you would the opponent, that's no fit state of mind to go into battle with!
Heh, look at this guy, with his "fit state of mind" and his "experienced veterans"!
In the Imperial Guard, if you survive your first three battles, then you're a hardened veteran! Fit state of mind? Can you recite your prayers to the Emperor? Do you hate the Xeno, the Mutant and the Heretic? Then you're in the proper state of mind, Soldier!
Poly Ranger wrote: For a start though it means 'veterans' can not possibly have a lot of experience with plasma weaponary - unless they are as lucky as a lottery winner.
Secondly, if you knew a gun had an incredibly high chance of killing you if you fired it - you would be more scared of it than you would the opponent, that's no fit state of mind to go into battle with!
Ya know its entirely possible that the venting doesn't straight kill the guardsman
its possible they got injured so they take him and the gun off to a field medic to get patched up.
There are a lot of vets with bionic parts and stuff. its also possible the weapon it self malfunctions to the point it needs to be sent back for repairs. so for whatever reason the guardsman escorts it back considering its worth more than his life.
All in the fiction given to us in the form of the 'imperial idea' as presented in codicies and the like, from the eyes of the imperial body, but the novels tell it different, they give a humanity to the guard. No matter what the imperial truth says, they are still human beings with human emotions, thoughts and fears after all, and will behave as such.
Besides - there's many of the Ghosts who have survived dozens of battles and skirmishes.
If you saw more than one of your mates burned alive by plasma venting from a gun, would you hold, let alone fire such a gun in future. Commisariate be dammned - in reality it would lead to mutinies forcing that many guardsmen to take weapons that would betray them to a horribly gruesome death. That's human nature - and no amount of fiction can change the basis of human nature.
They (GW) really haven't thought it through. BL have however as you don't read about every plasma gunner in a company dieing of plasma burns in the first few minutes of a battle.
1 in 36 shots I could maybe credit... but 1 in 6? Really?
Poly Ranger wrote: For a start though it means 'veterans' can not possibly have a lot of experience with plasma weaponary - unless they are as lucky as a lottery winner.
Secondly, if you knew a gun had an incredibly high chance of killing you if you fired it - you would be more scared of it than you would the opponent, that's no fit state of mind to go into battle with!
Ya know its entirely possible that the venting doesn't straight kill the guardsman
its possible they got injured so they take him and the gun off to a field medic to get patched up.
There are a lot of vets with bionic parts and stuff. its also possible the weapon it self malfunctions to the point it needs to be sent back for repairs. so for whatever reason the guardsman escorts it back considering its worth more than his life.
True - hadn't thought of that. But still - 1 in 6 shots requiring a replacement hand?
Poly Ranger wrote: All in the fiction given to us in the form of the 'imperial idea' as presented in codicies and the like, from the eyes of the imperial body, but the novels tell it different, they give a humanity to the guard. No matter what the imperial truth says, they are still human beings with human emotions, thoughts and fears after all, and will behave as such.
Besides - there's many of the Ghosts who have survived dozens of battles and skirmishes.
If you saw more than one of your mates burned alive by plasma venting from a gun, would you hold, let alone fire such a gun in future. Commisariate be dammned - in reality it would lead to mutinies forcing that many guardsmen to take weapons that would betray them to a horribly gruesome death. That's human nature - and no amount of fiction can change the basis of human nature.
They (GW) really haven't thought it through. BL have however as you don't read about every plasma gunner in a company dieing of plasma burns in the first few minutes of a battle.
1 in 36 shots I could maybe credit... but 1 in 6? Really?
Poly Ranger wrote: For a start though it means 'veterans' can not possibly have a lot of experience with plasma weaponary - unless they are as lucky as a lottery winner.
Secondly, if you knew a gun had an incredibly high chance of killing you if you fired it - you would be more scared of it than you would the opponent, that's no fit state of mind to go into battle with!
Ya know its entirely possible that the venting doesn't straight kill the guardsman
its possible they got injured so they take him and the gun off to a field medic to get patched up.
There are a lot of vets with bionic parts and stuff. its also possible the weapon it self malfunctions to the point it needs to be sent back for repairs. so for whatever reason the guardsman escorts it back considering its worth more than his life.
True - hadn't thought of that. But still - 1 in 6 shots requiring a replacement hand?
Its also one of those cinamatic games that doesnt 100% match with the rules it self.
For all we know it could be firing way more than 1-2 shots. considering an assault cannon only shoots 4 shots. but in reality its probably going BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
You know, I bet veterans volunteer for Plasma gun duty all the time. "Hey, Sarge, my expensive and rare weapon broke! I'm just going to take it back to the depot, kay thanks!".
Commisariate be dammned - in reality it would lead to mutinies forcing that many guardsmen to take weapons that would betray them to a horribly gruesome death. That's human nature - and no amount of fiction can change the basis of human nature.
Hence Traitor Guard.
Also... plasma weapons are exceptionally rare. Most Guardsmen will never see one.
TheCustomLime wrote: You know, I bet veterans volunteer for Plasma gun duty all the time. "Hey, Sarge, my expensive and rare weapon broke! I'm just going to take it back to the depot, kay thanks!".
Okay, providing that Plasma weaponry follows current known laws of physics:
A common misconception with plasma weapons is that, in the event of an overheat, they would explode or otherwise do something equally destructive. This isn't true in the slightest: plasma weapons work on the concept of nuclear fusion, which is a surprisingly safe form of energy generation, but also extremely lethal if weaponised. To actually initiate a self-sustaining fusion reaction, you need a lot of heat (upwards of several million degrees Centigrade) and some way to contain the reaction. The latter can either be gravity (as in stars) or extremely powerful magnetic containment fields. As we can't currently generate gravity, magnetism will have to do.
In an Imperial plasma weapon, when you pull the trigger, a certain amount of hydrogen fuel would be siphoned from the fuel cell and fed into the fusion chamber. An electrical arc would energise the hydrogen into a plasma state contained by a magnetic coil, and then vented out of the from of the weapon via additional electromagnetic coils. The reason why Imperial plasma weapons are more inherently destructive is due to the method by which the contain the plasma, probably a Tokamak design. It produces a lot more heat and energy than a Dense Plasma Focus, but is harder to control. Hence, Imperial plasma weapons are more prone to overheating as the coils can't be cooled quickly enough to reliably contain the fusion reaction.
In-universe, a plasma weapon overheating wouldn't be too much of a big deal. If you look at the diagram above, you can see that the entire front portion of the weapon is a glorified heat sink. It's sole purpose is to vent excess heat and plasma in the event that the Machine Spirit detects that the core temperature is starting to reach critical thresholds. Unfortunately, your hand happens to be very close to those vents. Hence, if the weapon starts venting, the most likely thing that will happen is that your hand will be burned and your eyebrows singed off. Should the wind be blowing towards you, that could result in your entire face being badly burned. Not exactly something you want to happen, but Imperial tech usually has these glaring flaws THAT THE MECHANICUS HASN'T FIXED YET EVEN AFTER 10000 YEARS. A**hats. If the weapon fails to vent properly, though, you could find yourself holding a gun that is spewing superheated plasma out of holes that shouldn't be there.
Let's just keep in mind that these things are probably fired in bursts of three to four shots at a time. However, an Assault 3/4 S7 AP2 weapon would be overpowered on the tabletop so it's Rapid Fire for balance reasons. Especially when you can have a Guard squad with 3 of them. They're likely to overheat fairly often as their user doesn't really have enough time to let the thing cool passively, and so they have to resort to burst firing until it vents, waiting until it cools down, then repeating that process. It's not surprising that a lot of Guard who use them suffer debilitating injuries. Still...
The various RPGs that give Rates of Fire for Plasma Weapons indicate that, at best, they are semi-automatic, firing one shot per combat round/turn/whatever. Some even require a cool-off period, allowing you to fire only every other turn. Most plasma weapons also have very limited shot-capacity in the flasks, some as low as 3.
Yeah, we really need to be careful how much we apply crunch to fluff. There is no way they would issue a weapon that will kill its operator 1 out of every 8 uses (factoring in the saving throw).
PhillyT wrote: Yeah, we really need to be careful how much we apply crunch to fluff. There is no way they would issue a weapon that will kill its operator 1 out of every 8 uses (factoring in the saving throw).
They are just dangerous!
really?your saying the IMPERIUM of trillions would not do this?The same imperium with the inquisition and commisars?you think that thats where they would draw the line?
Way back in 2nd edition days, the background for plasma weapons had the dangerous plasma weapons being a relic of the Heresy, and only in use among Traitor Legions while Space Marines and Imperial forces used plasma weapons that could fire only on alternate turns:
At the time of the Horus Heresy plasma weapons technology was at a dangerous phase in its development. Plasma reactors were in limited use, and the giant weapons mounted on Titans and space ships were a simple outgrowth of the systems needed to create reactors. Plasma guns and pistols which could be carried and used by a Space Marine in power armour were still prone to overheating and leaking energised plasma onto their unfortunate users...
Towards the end of the Heresy the Tech-Priests of Mars solved the immediate problems of plasma weapons. By slowing the recharge mode of the weapons they found they could maintain the integrity of the magnetic field containing the energising plasma. This prevented catastrophic leaks detonating the whole weapon and the slower recharge cycle also meant that the weapon's coolant system kept overheating to a minimum.
The resulting weapons were safe and reliable but suffered from a slow recharge rate which limited their effectiveness. Space Marine commanders were far from happy at the compromise but the number of catastrophic meltdowns experienced with the older weapons made plasma too dangerous for the Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes to continue using otherwise. As doctrine within the Adeptus Mechanicus changed the old style plasma weapons were branded Fabrus Excommunicata, engines of destruction that had fallen from the approval of the Machine God. WIthin a few centuries the early plasma weapons had entirely disappeared.
Such a light of reason has never shone over the Traitor Legions. They still maintain and use the old, dangerous plasma weapons, perhaps revelling in the raw danger of doing so. Given the contempt held for life held by Chaos Space Marines it's unlikely they would be willing to trade off less firepower for a safer weapon anyway.
p. 74, 2nd edition Chaos Codex
In 2nd edition, when these plasma weapons misfired, there were several outcomes from Overheating, Severe Overheating, Plasma Leak, to Meltdown. Only Meltdown actually destroyed the weapon.
So using that, one could suppose that these days when a plasma gun misfires, it may not be actual death for the gunner but rather incapacitating for the purposes of continuing the battle.
Psienesis wrote: Because it looks cool. No other reason. It's kind of like Star Wars... good guys shoot blue, bad guys shoot red. Space Marines shoot blue, Necrons shoot green. Chaos shoots red. Tau shoot white-blue. Eldar shoot white. Dark Eldar shoot purple.
It actually depends on what kind of gas you use in the blaster (IIRC), it's just that the CIS use a type of gas that fires red lasers, and the Republic uses gas that fires blue lasers. Rebels use green gas.
There are different qualities of gas, the highest being red and the lowest being green.
I don't see it exploding and killing the user. I see it causing burns and such, other wise no one would use them. Also, the fact the user gets an unmodified armor save tells me it is less catastrophic than actually getting hit by a plasma weapon.
Try convincing someone in ANY military of the following:
Yeah, you get to use this gun, it is really powerful. But, it has a pretty good shot of killing you every time you fire it.
Mattlov wrote: I don't see it exploding and killing the user. I see it causing burns and such, other wise no one would use them. Also, the fact the user gets an unmodified armor save tells me it is less catastrophic than actually getting hit by a plasma weapon.
Try convincing someone in ANY military of the following:
Yeah, you get to use this gun, it is really powerful. But, it has a pretty good shot of killing you every time you fire it.
"But, Commissar, that sounds like a bad idea".
"Guardsman, if you use this weapon it may kill you. If you don't and defy your orders I WILL kill you".
Mattlov wrote: I don't see it exploding and killing the user. I see it causing burns and such, other wise no one would use them. Also, the fact the user gets an unmodified armor save tells me it is less catastrophic than actually getting hit by a plasma weapon.
Try convincing someone in ANY military of the following:
Yeah, you get to use this gun, it is really powerful. But, it has a pretty good shot of killing you every time you fire it.
"But, Commissar, that sounds like a bad idea".
"Guardsman, if you use this weapon it may kill you. If you don't and defy your orders I WILL kill you".
And Commissar then gets fragged by his own men.
Imperial propaganda aside, the Imperial Guard are still human. If Imperial propaganda were always true, no Guardsmen would ever feel fear or ever break and run away, but we know that is not the case. As harsh as the Imperium is, it does still need to know when to make compromises for the sake of military efficiency. If a Commissar literally shot someone for every little transgression no matter how small (even if by the strict letter of the regulations he might be correct), he could jeopardize the ability of his command to achieve military objectives, and for the Imperium that would be the greater sin. Yes, some Commissars are that rigid and stupid but they appear to be the exception not the rule, and Commissars need to know when to enforce the rules and when to turn a blind eye to minor things.
Refusing to use your assigned weapon is not a 'minor thing'.
Its somewhat annoying that every protagonist Commissar in the Black Library novels is noted as being 'an exception to the normal mass of ruthless monsters'. Literally every Commissar except Holt has had, somewhere in his fluff, a note that says "Unlike most Commissars who take a hard line approach....'
I imagine the limitation of the d6 warps our view of the situation of both us and GW
My take is they're may be something like a 1% chance of a catastrophic failure or maybe even 10%
All weapons have the potential for a catastrophic failure, with plasma maybe being a bit of a higher chance, but when a CF occurs it's simply more damaging If the percentage is directly translated that's a 16% chance of failure
Number's like that may be acceptable to a guardsmen, but i wouldn't think highly valuable operators such as space marine or say plasma pistol inquisitors would even be allowed to touch them, due to themselves being far more useful and valuable compared to the weapon itself, especially considering that there is other options for weaponry that can be ass effective as plasma without that almost 20% chance of a CA
whilst the effect's of the CA can vary from slight injury to death, 16% chance of that weapon failing is just to much to take into account.
If you think of a marine section for example if hes weapon fail's that's a massive loss of firepower and could compromise their tactical value, sure he has a bolt pistol but that sidearm isnt going to be very useful in a large firefight
If you think about it would a modern army equip itself with a machine gun of a failure rate of 16%, no way. Considering the tactical knowledge that marines are equiped with id honestly think that a 16% failure rate would be unacceptable
It's just a way that GW have imprinted their idea of the weapon into the game
The failure risk is a game balance mechanic to counteract the effect of plasma guns being such good Marine killers. In 2nd edition, it rapidly became clear the Mk.1 plasma guns of the Chaos Space Marines (i.e. the guns that overheated) were superior in-game to the safer ones used by Space Marines (which had to recharge for a full turn after firing, effectively halving their firepower since they could only fire alternate turns). Few players were willing to sacrifice that amount of firepower just to avoid the risk of overheating (which much of the time a Chaos Space Marine would have survived anyway).
I havent read all of the replies so it this has been said i apologise. In the fluff I imagine that the plasma pistol fires the bolt of plasma. it doesnt heat the surrounding air because of the protective magnet jacket until it hits the target. the jacket bursts and the plasma flies everywhere superheating the air around it (setting jackets alight and whatnot). when the plasma weapon overheats it vents like the Halo gun and the user gets burnt... a lot, as in their hands melt and the guy next to him has an arm that melts away and his storm coat bursts into flames. i cant see the weapon exploding because IIRC the technology for making plasma weapons is lost to everyone except the DA (and the rest of the unforgiven by association) if the weapon exploded then they wouldnt have lasted this 10k+ years let alone be common enough for a mere commissar attached to the Ghosts to wield.
but thats just fluff stuff in game theres nothing more demoralising/uplifting that having one of your heavy wepons explode on you.
MrBlackledge wrote: I havent read all of the replies so it this has been said i apologise. In the fluff I imagine that the plasma pistol fires the bolt of plasma. it doesnt heat the surrounding air because of the protective magnet jacket until it hits the target. the jacket bursts and the plasma flies everywhere superheating the air around it (setting jackets alight and whatnot). when the plasma weapon overheats it vents like the Halo gun and the user gets burnt... a lot, as in their hands melt and the guy next to him has an arm that melts away and his storm coat bursts into flames. i cant see the weapon exploding because IIRC the technology for making plasma weapons is lost to everyone except the DA (and the rest of the unforgiven by association) if the weapon exploded then they wouldnt have lasted this 10k+ years let alone be common enough for a mere commissar attached to the Ghosts to wield.
but thats just fluff stuff in game theres nothing more demoralising/uplifting that having one of your heavy wepons explode on you.
Ah, forgot about that magnetic bottle. Yeah, that would prevent the bolt from injuring the user as it left the barrel. Otherwise, if it overheats, the weapon would probably have to emergency vent some of the reactor contents. If some of that gets on you, that'll hurt. That said chances of failure of a plasma gun in-universe are somewhere around five percent or so, probably less. It's just that the game works in D6s so a roll of one makes it easier to represent.
Psienesis wrote: Because it looks cool. No other reason. It's kind of like Star Wars... good guys shoot blue, bad guys shoot red. Space Marines shoot blue, Necrons shoot green. Chaos shoots red. Tau shoot white-blue. Eldar shoot white. Dark Eldar shoot purple.
It actually depends on what kind of gas you use in the blaster (IIRC), it's just that the CIS use a type of gas that fires red lasers, and the Republic uses gas that fires blue lasers. Rebels use green gas.
There are different qualities of gas, the highest being red and the lowest being green.
Yes, sort of. But, really, it's because it looks cool.
One of my Jedi dual-wields sabers with bubblegum-pink blades. Why? Because she can (and an extra 820 HP is nothing to sneeze at).
Iracundus wrote:And Commissar then gets fragged by his own men.
And then the entire Regiment is rendered into gun-servitors, and their familes on their homeworld are sold into indentured servitude to be Naval Ratings unto 100 generations, to repay the Imperium for the costs incurred in turning their traitorous Guardsmen into servitors, and the homeworld itself is decimated, as a lesson to others who might consider refusing orders.
And then the entire Regiment is rendered into gun-servitors, and their familes on their homeworld are sold into indentured servitude to be Naval Ratings unto 100 generations, to repay the Imperium for the costs incurred in turning their traitorous Guardsmen into servitors, and the homeworld itself is decimated, as a lesson to others who might consider refusing orders.
Now that simply isn't true. The two Death Korps of Krieg regiments on Vraks that failed miserably in their attack and killed the Commissars that tried to stop them falling back were only punished with being turned into Penal Legion. Didn't affect any future generations on Krieg either.
Psienesis wrote: The population of Krieg is already 100% tithed to the Guard. There's not much more you can do with them.
And a Penal Legion is a death sentence.
The population of Krieg is not 100% tithed as otherwise the planet would be emptied and they would all be extinct within one generation. There is still the necessity of some non-combatants so as to produce more soldiers for the next generation, and to keep the necessary infrastructure to birth, feed, and train them. So yes, there could be worse for Krieg, and it didn't happen just because some regiments fell back and killed their Commissars. The Administratum is not going to kill its golden goose just because of a few bad eggs.
Similarly, any realistic Commissar has to know when to be harsh and unyielding, and when unnecessary cruelty is counterproductive and instead corrodes morale, degrades combat effectiveness, or provokes revolt.
Psienesis wrote: The population of Krieg is already 100% tithed to the Guard. There's not much more you can do with them.
And a Penal Legion is a death sentence.
The population of Krieg is not 100% tithed as otherwise the planet would be emptied and they would all be extinct within one generation. There is still the necessity of some non-combatants so as to produce more soldiers for the next generation, and to keep the necessary infrastructure to birth, feed, and train them. So yes, there could be worse for Krieg, and it didn't happen just because some regiments fell back and killed their Commissars.
You know that they use Vitae Wombs on Kreig, right? This is some sort of artificial womb or cloning technology that the AdMech doesn't like but the HLoT have granted to the planet to maintain its population in the irradiated wastelands that cover its surface.
They don't need a breeding population, they do it through Science! more efficiently than they otherwise would (probably because of long-term genetic damage caused by toxic radiation).
Life in the Guard starts almost immediately for the people of Krieg. Those who can't make the cut don't survive out of childhood.
Psienesis wrote: The population of Krieg is already 100% tithed to the Guard. There's not much more you can do with them.
And a Penal Legion is a death sentence.
The population of Krieg is not 100% tithed as otherwise the planet would be emptied and they would all be extinct within one generation. There is still the necessity of some non-combatants so as to produce more soldiers for the next generation, and to keep the necessary infrastructure to birth, feed, and train them. So yes, there could be worse for Krieg, and it didn't happen just because some regiments fell back and killed their Commissars.
You know that they use Vitae Wombs on Kreig, right? This is some sort of artificial womb or cloning technology that the AdMech doesn't like but the HLoT have granted to the planet to maintain its population in the irradiated wastelands that cover its surface.
They don't need a breeding population, they do it through Science! more efficiently than they otherwise would (probably because of long-term genetic damage caused by toxic radiation).
Life in the Guard starts almost immediately for the people of Krieg. Those who can't make the cut don't survive out of childhood.
Yes I know of the Vitae Wombs. And who maintains them? Not the AdMech, and even if they did, they still use menials. Tech-Priests are just the supervisors not the labor that does the actual work. Who feeds those who maintain them? Who feeds those budding new Guardsmen? Who builds their lasguns and other equipment that they train with until they are tithed? Who stays behind to do basic training for the newest maturing recruits? There are far more non-combatants behind every combatant, and this is necessary to maintain them and keep Krieg able to fight at an industrial level of warfare. 100% enlisted sounds grimdark but it is simply not possible, given what we know of war and what sort of logistical effort is necessary to equip, train, and maintain a soldier, and to have a sustainable society that will produce another generation of soldiers in the future.
Kreig imports most of its food. They live underground, after all. The surface of the planet isn't capable of supporting agriculture, being an irradiated wasteland. The factory workers are all making stuff for the DM. That's part of a tithe, too. It is, in fact, the responsibility of the tithing world to supply the arms and armor for their tithed Regiments. Whether they serve in the Guard itself or in a factory that makes weapons exclusively for Guard Regiments is really six of one, half dozen of the other.
Psienesis wrote: Kreig imports most of its food. They live underground, after all. The surface of the planet isn't capable of supporting agriculture, being an irradiated wasteland. The factory workers are all making stuff for the DM. That's part of a tithe, too. It is, in fact, the responsibility of the tithing world to supply the arms and armor for their tithed Regiments. Whether they serve in the Guard itself or in a factory that makes weapons exclusively for Guard Regiments is really six of one, half dozen of the other.
Care to quote your claim about most of their food being imported? We know hives raise things like fungus and also the meat of the various animals that survive in the hive environment, so we know the Imperium can and does produce food even in exclusively subterranean or indoor environments. We know hive worlds import food but Krieg is not as densely populated as a hive world.
Working in a factory or other support service on Krieg is still a very distinct life and form of service from actually being tithed as Guardsmen. Both a scribe in the Adeptus Terra and a Guardsman serve the Emperor (in theory every human in the Imperium does), but in very different ways, and their lives do not equate to each other.
No Hive World is self-sufficient. We know this from the existence and purpose of Agri-Worlds, and the wealth of information we have on what happens to Hive Worlds when their food supply is cut-off or threatened.
Care to supply some information that explains how Kreig is somehow exempt from the facts-of-life that apply to any other Hive World?
Krieg survived for generations on its own before being rejoining the Imperium, and during this time when it was cut off from imports it still sustained its own population and had enough surplus population (and the industrial base with which to arm them) at the time of recontact to immediately start tithing regiments. This shows Krieg had to have been self sufficient to that degree.
Iracundus wrote: Krieg survived for generations on its own before being rejoining the Imperium, and during this time when it was cut off from imports it still sustained its own population and had enough surplus population (and the industrial base with which to arm them) at the time of recontact to immediately start tithing regiments. This shows Krieg had to have been self sufficient to that degree.
Krieg currently has no industry other than soldiers and weapons of war, but that's not to say that before they got bombed they didn't have farms etc.
Iracundus wrote: Krieg survived for generations on its own before being rejoining the Imperium, and during this time when it was cut off from imports it still sustained its own population and had enough surplus population (and the industrial base with which to arm them) at the time of recontact to immediately start tithing regiments. This shows Krieg had to have been self sufficient to that degree.
Krieg currently has no industry other than soldiers and weapons of war, but that's not to say that before they got bombed they didn't have farms etc.
Read what I wrote above carefully and check the chronology of events. After the initial rebellion and then the atomic fallout, Krieg still sustained itself for generations as it fought to retake the planet from the rebels. It rejoined the Imperium only after the rebellion had been finally crushed. Until it did so, Krieg fought using only its own resources and had no interstellar trade or imports. That means it had both the ability to feed and arm its population without being reliant on imports. This means a significant chunk of the population has to by necessity be devoted to logistical and support roles and not being directly on the front lines.
Well, one, Kreig isn't a Hive World post-Purging, it's a Death World. It had billions of people *before* the nuclear apocalypse that made it what it is today. That said, when your population drops from billions to (maybe) millions, even with the losses to radiation and Hive-collapse, that's still a lot of leftover stuff for the survivors (who lasted 500 years... that's only slightly better than the America of Fallout).
It currently tithes 50 million people a year to the Guard, and their equipment is on par with 19th century production. It doesn't require many people to produce the uniform or the armor. With a textile factory, the demand is easily met, even by our modern capabilities.
I always assumed it was emergency venting with not quite enough warning, Or overly complex warnings. Safe enough when the mechanicum tested it on the range. Safe enough in basic training. But easy to overlook when in a firefight.
Also, I think plenty of guard would consider it a risk well worth taking after they've seen a few of the nastier things they're going to go up against.
Weapons with gets hot get hot, nothing more. I also recall a fluff bit where a plasma weapon exploded, but it was the result of the weapon taking damage (like the cliche of a flamer mysteriously exploding when its fuel tank takes a hit). Given that the weapon has a heat sink on it, it's unlikely that it would have some other sort of emergency system on it, and, ruleswise, the weapons are ready to fire more or less the instant that the previous owner dropped it due to heat.
The idea that a plasma weapon would explode or vent something would necessarily mean the weapon would be inoperable for the rest of the battle, which isn't the case. Unless there's content under pressure, it's going to shut down like anything else when it overheats - it just stops working until it cools down.
As such, it's more of a case of hot-potato where someone gets a trip to the chiurgeon's at the end.
You know, like this:
See 3:26
In this case Sgt. Harker, I mean, Basilonne clearly has W2.
In my opinion seems like a bit bs rule in the first place. They are willing to field a weapon like that, even in the hands of Space Marines. A weapon that is so volatile that it can go off randomly after a shot. Doesn't seem linked in fluff, but it does kind of nerf down the weapon. So I suppose it makes sense in Rules but not fluff.
But as for what happens. I would think that the weapon melts down, hot metal will screw up anyone's day.
Nightwalker wrote:They are willing to field a weapon like that, even in the hands of Space Marines. A weapon that is so volatile that it can go off randomly after a shot. Doesn't seem linked in fluff, but it does kind of nerf down the weapon.
Well, this is only a problem...
Nightwalker wrote: I would think that the weapon melts down, hot metal will screw up anyone's day.
... if this is true. If it's not, it isn't.
There's no problem if the weapon is capable of overheating and singing the user past the point of immediate combat effectiveness, but the gun (allowed to cool) is fine. It's worth it to give a space marine a plasma weapon if there's only the chance he's going to have to spend some time at the apothecary's after. It's worth the risk then.
As mentioned, it's only incongruous if you take the position that plasma weapons explode in a fiery blast of searing death, vaporizing the user every time they get hot.
I mean, modern troops are trained not to melt their machinegun barrels by overuse. Seems like it would be fairly easy to not kill yourself with the gun, heh.
I kinda liked the Necromunda rules for them. Low power shots at a lower S and save mod. High power shots required a turn of cooldown.
well the melt down is because of unstable tech ,not overdose
also Tau are like necromunda
and a gets got is a meltdown, it expledes and throws "bleu lava" or is like halo that its too hot , bot ocasions the unit is out of combant (dead or alive)
I have to ask, don't you think it would be rather Epic Fail worthy if plasma weapons DIDN'T have an emergency shutoff protocol when they get hot? Which idiot would design something so powerful it can vaporise a tank, and then forget to include a venting mechanism of some sort? In Space Marine, all plasma weapons will lock down and vent into their immediate surroundings if you push them into the overheat zone, but if someone is stood in front of you, boy are they going to have a bad day.
Ailaros wrote: There's no problem if the weapon is capable of overheating and singing the user past the point of immediate combat effectiveness, but the gun (allowed to cool) is fine. It's worth it to give a space marine a plasma weapon if there's only the chance he's going to have to spend some time at the apothecary's after. It's worth the risk then.
As mentioned, it's only incongruous if you take the position that plasma weapons explode in a fiery blast of searing death, vaporizing the user every time they get hot.
Well exactly.
After all, the rule is called "Gets Hot!" not "Goes Boom!"
Since Plasma guns are still operational after a failed Gets Hot! roll I assume the person using it just held the trigger for too long, venting out enough energy to splash himself. Alternatively it is fired to quickly and the excess energy just gets vented into your face.
Indeed. Gets Hot represents the weapon's emergency cooling systems scalding the user OR the weapon shutting down and the user making a retreat with such a valuable piece of equipment so it can be properly repaired by a techpriest.
It can also represent the weapon actually exploding, but only in the rarest of situations.
Bronzefists42 wrote: Since Plasma guns are still operational after a failed Gets Hot! roll I assume the person using it just held the trigger for too long, venting out enough energy to splash himself. Alternatively it is fired to quickly and the excess energy just gets vented into your face.
Agreed. A multi-wound model isn't removed as a casualty when they are subjected to Gets Hot!, nor is the weapon destroyed, they just suffer a wound.
Grey Templar wrote: Indeed. Gets Hot represents the weapon's emergency cooling systems scalding the user OR the weapon shutting down and the user making a retreat with such a valuable piece of equipment so it can be properly repaired by a techpriest.
It can also represent the weapon actually exploding, but only in the rarest of situations.
In necromunda if i remeber well you roll a dice :1-2 the first senario,3-4 the 2nd and 5-6 the 3rd
i think that the most logical explanation
Was just reading the second Blood Angels Omnibus and in it Seth has a plasmagun that overheats and it has a failsafe that shut it down until it cooled off. It eventually worked again, but no explosion or venting. It just refused to fire.
Could be when it Gets Hot! a guardsman gets terrified as to what he's done and runs away before someone else finds out. Or going for repairs. Most likely the first. Unless its DKoK i guess. Then he stays and fights with harsh language.
Mattlov wrote: I don't see it exploding and killing the user. I see it causing burns and such, other wise no one would use them. Also, the fact the user gets an unmodified armor save tells me it is less catastrophic than actually getting hit by a plasma weapon.
Try convincing someone in ANY military of the following:
Yeah, you get to use this gun, it is really powerful. But, it has a pretty good shot of killing you every time you fire it.
Imperial Plasma weapons burn as hot as a Solar flare- IE they're in the ballpark of twenty million degrees. Those won't burn your face. They'll melt or vaporize it.
Hence why Guardsmen die from overheating plasma guns, and space marines either need new armor or cybernetics. While power armor might stand up to venting plasma as it's less concentrated, if it blasted into the face of the user, they wouldn't see after that. Probably because part of the helmet melted and cooled over the eyes, or even fused it to their gorget.
The gun vents, and then after cooling may continue to fire normally. I imagine the 40k 'gets hot!' weapons work like this, but instead of burning the hand of the user, it dumps a load of plasma/heat/radiation/other technobable on them.
Wyzilla wrote:Imperial Plasma weapons burn as hot as a Solar flare- IE they're in the ballpark of twenty million degrees. Those won't burn your face. They'll melt or vaporize it.
Hence why Guardsmen die from overheating plasma guns, and space marines either need new armor or cybernetics.
Then why can a guard officer suffer a gets hot on his plasma pistol and still be honky-dorey combat effective? Why would you ever be allowed an armor save, for that matter?
Clearly it's not a plasma explosion, ruleswise, at least.
Wyzilla wrote:Imperial Plasma weapons burn as hot as a Solar flare- IE they're in the ballpark of twenty million degrees. Those won't burn your face. They'll melt or vaporize it.
Hence why Guardsmen die from overheating plasma guns, and space marines either need new armor or cybernetics.
Then why can a guard officer suffer a gets hot on his plasma pistol and still be honky-dorey combat effective? Why would you ever be allowed an armor save, for that matter?
Clearly it's not a plasma explosion, ruleswise, at least.
Well exactly. You can take a 6+ armour save from Gets Hot! Even multilazorz punch through 6+ and they're certainly not in the same realm as blobs of nuclear fusion (although lasers are pretty hot).
Now one could argue that the officer was taking his refractor field save, but the 6+ (or really 3+ through 6+) armour save issue still remains.
Assuming it is a plasma overload, I think it would actually be a bit more realistic if they had to take a reflex save (e.g. initiative test) to either drop the weapon or quickly engage the emergency venting switch (or whatnot). But then you're still having a multi-wound model take a wound (presumably from an 'explosion') and then pick up the weapon to fire normally.
It's pretty ironclad that, as Ailaros said, ruleswise the Gets Hot! effect isn't anything remotely like being shot with a plasma weapon and, moreover, doesn't necessarily destroy the weapon.
I perspnally go by FFGs version, it is normlly just that you can't use it for a bit while it cools down, and you may have to drop it to not get burnt, but if it is catastrophic, it might explode.
