If no one beats me to it I may take a stab at it, I made the JSA one I am using (even though I don't play JSA, just think it looks cool). Also you could pm tunnelrat, he made all those Dakka Infinity sigs for us.
I'm happy to let those horrible miniatures die a silent death :p
Even though I like their background, they're really too ugly (and I don't feel they need to be in the game either)
I read this as 'Bugs have feelers too'. Less to the point, maybe, but more accurate.
I have trouble understanding why a simple set of updated profiles for existing bugs cannot be kept. CB gets to save coin on an unprofitable range of models, current owners aren't left holding dead weight. Those saying just proxy them as netrods or what have you aren't really helping. It's a head scratching move on Corvus Belli to be sure.
Rusty Trombone wrote: I read this as 'Bugs have feelers too'. Less to the point, maybe, but more accurate.
Ahaha!
Any word from Koni? I'm hoping for an Official statement on this actually as clearly it's an issue with repercussions for many loyal players. I'm betting it's part of a greater plan though, I don't think they'd dump on the fans like this.
As someone who didn't buy any Exrah, there's a reason why. When I look at CA, I don't look at mixing races. The fluff even says that rarely happens, and they generally keep to their own combat groups. More than any other faction, it seems the Combined Army players feel the same way and treat each sectorial as its own army.
I really liked the Exrah. I think the models are quite fine - they just need a more organic paint scheme that's coherent across them to tie them together. I initially didn't even realize the Iskaller, Void and Vector Operators were the same race as the Caskuda due to the incoherent painting.
When I set about putting a list with them together, there was one glaring problem - there's too few units. There's two very specialised medium infantry, an expensive AD unit and one of the most expensive TAGs in the game. They're all great units, but they didn't make a list. You need standard light and medium infantry in there too to bulk out a list.
Basically, Corvus Belli set the Exrah up to fail themselves. First by not having a clear direction for their paint scheme, then by not actually adding one or two new units that would get people to start looking at them as a range of units to base a list around, rather than as a few units to sprinkle into a mixed CA force. And it's really a shame that they're happy to simply drop them rather than actually figure out what they did wrong and try to fix it.
-Loki- wrote: As someone who didn't buy any Exrah, there's a reason why. When I look at CA, I don't look at mixing races. The fluff even says that rarely happens, and they generally keep to their own combat groups. More than any other faction, it seems the Combined Army players feel the same way and treat each sectorial as its own army.
As one of the Combined Army players who happens to feel completely opposite than how you do, I'd like to thank you for identifying yourself as part of the problem.
If a person wanted to, they could trace over the various GenCon presentations, a story where:
1. The original Combined Army starter didn't sell as well as the sectorials because "it didn't look like an [cohesive] army"
2. The Exrah didn't sell well for aesthetic reasons
3. The Exrah models were more expensive and difficult to produce due to complexity
I really liked the Exrah. I think the models are quite fine - they just need a more organic paint scheme that's coherent across them to tie them together. I initially didn't even realize the Iskaller, Void and Vector Operators were the same race as the Caskuda due to the incoherent painting.
When I set about putting a list with them together, there was one glaring problem - there's too few units. There's two very specialised medium infantry, an expensive AD unit and one of the most expensive TAGs in the game. They're all great units, but they didn't make a list. You need standard light and medium infantry in there too to bulk out a list.
Basically, Corvus Belli set the Exrah up to fail themselves. First by not having a clear direction for their paint scheme, then by not actually adding one or two new units that would get people to start looking at them as a range of units to base a list around, rather than as a few units to sprinkle into a mixed CA force. And it's really a shame that they're happy to simply drop them rather than actually figure out what they did wrong and try to fix it.
Thats why i've painted mine all the same colour. I think the models are already sufficiently different that you can tell they are not Morat or Shasvastii.
Before Human Sphere Exrah actually had as many units in the generic list as Morats and more than Shasvastii. But taking lots of them in a generic list was difficult due to their basic points costs (~30 points for a combi load out) and the higher costs of units in CA in general. You could still fir one or two in but it would be at the expense of other units, or more orders.
The writing was already on the wall for Exrah when Human Sphere came out i think. Morats and Shas got all the new units and new re-designed models and Exrah got nothing. The other units that came out with HS probably made it easier to take Exrah in a vanilla CA list (seed soldiers, imetrons cheaper EI Lts etc ) but then they were also in direct competion with newer profiles with newly released models (rasyats for AD troops and yaogats for MI MSV2).
I think CBs treatment of the Exrah is pretty disappointing especially when you compare it with something like the Mk12 Wulver. I'd be interested to see what the sales figures were for the original Mk 12 Wulver sculpt compared to Exrah. I'm pretty sure at the time it came it was confirmed that it wasn't selling very well. Did CB give up and delete the entire unit? No, they discontinued the original and re-sculpted it. And based on Cho-konnits split box threads its one of the most popular models in the new Wulver box set. Same goes for the Minutemen models. Massive number of profiles for the unit with a single model, which i doubt is a very big seller and i can't remeber the last time (or even first time!) that i have seen one pop up in anyone's Ariadna army lists. Have CB just given up and deleted the profile? No they haven't and i think its a pretty safe bet they will get a re-sculpt (possibly even a box set) when the USAriadna sectorial comes out.
Okay, I'm going to say something absolutely mental that I've been thinking about but please take it with a pinch bucket of salt. No angry mobs congregating outside of my castle, please. I'm fearful of fire you see.
(N2, p93) The Exrah Concordat wrote:Concordat members come from an alien race, called the Exrah, hailing from a planet with elevated levels of radiation. It is not known if the causes of the intense radioactivity are natural or artificial, the result of a military catastrophe. Exrah physiology has adapted to the toxic and radioactive ambient of their planet by developing a keratinous epidermis that is able to withstand their radioactive environment. The epidermis characterises the Exrah, who still have not finished their current evolutionary phase. There still is dimorphism in the Exrah anatomy, with two typologies clearly differentiated.
john_b
Posted 02 September 2014 - 07:31 AM At the NOVA Open Gutier said that even if no new exrah models are released they'll keep the profiles for the existing ones.
Todd
It seemed like they simply had no future plans for them at all, aside form letting them be. No new models, and no plans to get rid of the old ones or their profiles. He did mention the bit of Exrah fluff from Paradiso as being a reference/hint as to their minimized presence going forward
Anyone know this 'hint' in Paradiso?
Kan?
****************************************
More digging reveals, I think, that the Exrah are pretty much gone for good.
CB pulled a mini-GW and Squatted a race within a race.
I legitimately could not find any mention of the Exrah in the Campaign: Paradiso book.
Only thing I can think of is this line from page 69:
This new offensive of the Combined Army will require more military resources. Those resources will be diverted from the frontlines established in our territory, loosening the pressure on our race and giving our organization more time to develop our plans. It will also force humans to greatly rely on the military and technological aid from the Trinomial, which will allow us to exercise greater control and influence over them.
Our conspiracy, the Crossroads of Paradiso, has been completed with rousing success. The scenario is now set for the second phase of our plans. We await further instructions.
-Progress report of the Triumvirate's supervision unit deployed to Paradiso. Encrypted transmission, destination unknown.
Which, incidentally, I think is what the whole "Are You Ready For the Truth" thing is about since the whole Combined v. Human Sphere battle for Paradiso was essentially engineered by the Tohaa Triumvirate, a shadow government that is reputed by the Tohaa to be the real power in charge of the Tohaa Trinomial.
The goal was to drive the Combined Army against a new foe and for the Tohaa to gain a new set of cat's paws in their war against the Combined Army.
Can't say I'm too broken up over it although it would've been nice for just the TAG to stick around as an homage, as it's so much better than the Avatar TAG for Combined!
I had hoped they'd changed their mind in the end. I don't like the miniatures but conceptually they make awesome and rather classy antagonists. I had a discussion about this with a friend who plays CA, he too was kinda blue the bugs aren't getting redone and other concepts are being pursued.
I think a set of non-ITS legal profiles (since the models are not available anymore, making them ITS legal would cause a lot of complaints from newer players who can't get them) would be a nice gesture to those that already have the models.
That being said, it would also be comething pushed to the back burner since there's plenty of stuff they need to do even post launch of N3, and they'd still need to thoroughly playtest those rules.
I feel bad to see the space lobster going. I kinda liked the look of it although I had no plan to run a combined army since I just started Nomad and PanO with the Icestorm box.
Im of the opinion that you can't have a scifi setting without some form of alien bugs.
Another model I just noticed on the removal list is what I think is the "flasher" moira SCCW + MR I was eyeing off. :(
Dropbear Victim wrote: Another model I just noticed on the removal list is what I think is the "flasher" moira SCCW + MR I was eyeing off. :(
Only as an individual blister. It's being discontinued because it's also in the Bakunin starter, and they're in the process of removing anything as a blister that's also in a box.
-Loki- wrote:And it's really a shame that they're happy to simply drop them rather than actually figure out what they did wrong and try to fix it.
My impression from talking to CB staff at assorted times is that nobody at CB is 'happy' to simply drop them but that it was seen as the lesser of several evils.
Rusty Trombone wrote:Yeah, an online only set of profiles would be nice. It wouldn't cost them money or goodwill, either. Win/win!
Loki has touched on this briefly, but I'm not sure what it 'solves'.
They wouldn't be usable in an ITS event (I can go into detail on the balance issues if you'd like, which would most assuredly cost time/money to fix),
Outside of an ITS event, anyone who would be prepared to play against 'casual' profiles is also likely to be happy playing against the 'existing' 2nd edition profiles
I doubt that would even be the case, given how much the rules in N3 are changing...
I think my best hope is that the Combined Army get something new that the Caskuda can be used as - something better than the stuff that is currently being thought of as a decent proxy source (Raicho and Avatar).
IJW wrote: Outside of an ITS event, anyone who would be prepared to play against 'casual' profiles is also likely to be happy playing against the 'existing' 2nd edition profiles
That's quite a leap. The points values would be balanced for second edition still, as well as needing to work together potentially on rules interpretations. Particularly the Exrah rule which won't exist anymore. Also, casual pick up games that aren't ITS prep don't necessarily mean the opponent is prepared to 'homebrew' anything.
A legal set of non-ITS valid rules means there will be zero interpretation required of old rules, they will be balanced for the new ruleset including points values, and zero reason to refuse their use unless it's specifically agreed to use ITS rules. It just removes any ambiguity.
I will download and print a second edition army list which features a Caskuda. People will play me. They will play me, or I won't let them play on my terrain and reference my rulebooks
Pacific wrote: I will download and print a second edition army list which features a Caskuda. People will play me. They will play me, or I won't let them play on my terrain and reference my rulebooks
I've already printed a list from the army builder with all the profiles, but your post has just reminded me .. i forgot the Caskuda! And there's nothing like a bit of blackmail for getting some games!
Pacific, with your stunning terrain you could print off a list with Tom Bombadil, a Death Star and the cast of 3rd Rock from the Sun and people would still play you!
Casey's Law wrote: Pacific, with your stunning terrain you could print off a list with Tom Bombadil, a Death Star and the cast of 3rd Rock from the Sun and people would still play you!
Haha, thanks mate. Now to start thinking of some special rules for Harry, and I'm guessing Sally would be some kind of HI..
So.. prevailing thought now is that the new 'something secret will be revealed 31st October!' message is actually about the Exrah being squatted?
Although with the cover being Ariadna it makes me think not (unless it was some kind of 'Tremors' situation where the Exrah attacked Ariadna and got wiped out? "You picked the wrong house to break into!" )
-Loki- wrote: That's quite a leap. The points values would be balanced for second edition still, as well as needing to work together potentially on rules interpretations. Particularly the Exrah rule which won't exist anymore. Also, casual pick up games that aren't ITS prep don't necessarily mean the opponent is prepared to 'homebrew' anything.
A legal set of non-ITS valid rules means there will be zero interpretation required of old rules, they will be balanced for the new ruleset including points values, and zero reason to refuse their use unless it's specifically agreed to use ITS rules. It just removes any ambiguity.
A set of profiles that 'wouldn't cost them money or goodwill' by definition wouldn't have been playtested for N3. There are severe game balance issues for the Vector and Caskuda that would need to be looked at from from scratch, which I'm pretty sure is a contributing factor to Exrah getting dropped, on top of the slow model sales.
Personally I prefer to think Exrah are being reassigned to Tohaa because of genetic engineering storyline. I wouldn't be surprised if they confirmed Antipode engineering too. That could just be wishful thinking though.
Even if it turned out that I'm correct then I wonder how they are going to deliver this information? As has been said, if it was N3 they wouldn't be telling us now. Dire Foes? Book? Comic?
Just had an idea. The save the caskuda banner would make great graffiti on terrain walls. If I had any terrain made I'd do it but I don't so I'll just leave the idea here. Maybe one of you guys will use the idea.
Dropbear Victim wrote: Just had an idea. The save the caskuda banner would make great graffiti on terrain walls. If I had any terrain made I'd do it but I don't so I'll just leave the idea here. Maybe one of you guys will use the idea.
I love that idea!
Obviously, I don't think we'll be able to save the Caskuda, but he will live on as graffiti on my Infinity terrain and, of course, as a paperweight on my desk.
-Loki- wrote: That's quite a leap. The points values would be balanced for second edition still, as well as needing to work together potentially on rules interpretations. Particularly the Exrah rule which won't exist anymore. Also, casual pick up games that aren't ITS prep don't necessarily mean the opponent is prepared to 'homebrew' anything.
A legal set of non-ITS valid rules means there will be zero interpretation required of old rules, they will be balanced for the new ruleset including points values, and zero reason to refuse their use unless it's specifically agreed to use ITS rules. It just removes any ambiguity.
A set of profiles that 'wouldn't cost them money or goodwill' by definition wouldn't have been playtested for N3. There are severe game balance issues for the Vector and Caskuda that would need to be looked at from from scratch, which I'm pretty sure is a contributing factor to Exrah getting dropped, on top of the slow model sales.
I said exactly this last page. And why it probably won't ever happen.
Saying people should just use N2's rules misses the point - a lot of people play pick up games, and N2 profiles that both players need to agree on not only on use, but rules interpretations, is going to have less chance of getting used than Mercenaries do with legal profiles.
This goes a bit beyond Ko Dali. This removed 4 whole units, with multiple profiles each, and one of the most expensive models they sell, which people paid good money for. it's understandable that people are bitter. I don't think some non-ITS legal rules is asking too much as a good will gesture. Saying 'we'll totally explain why we removed them from the game' doesn't do much to make it easier to swallow.
-Loki- wrote: That's quite a leap. The points values would be balanced for second edition still, as well as needing to work together potentially on rules interpretations. Particularly the Exrah rule which won't exist anymore. Also, casual pick up games that aren't ITS prep don't necessarily mean the opponent is prepared to 'homebrew' anything.
A legal set of non-ITS valid rules means there will be zero interpretation required of old rules, they will be balanced for the new ruleset including points values, and zero reason to refuse their use unless it's specifically agreed to use ITS rules. It just removes any ambiguity.
A set of profiles that 'wouldn't cost them money or goodwill' by definition wouldn't have been playtested for N3. There are severe game balance issues for the Vector and Caskuda that would need to be looked at from from scratch, which I'm pretty sure is a contributing factor to Exrah getting dropped, on top of the slow model sales.
I said exactly this last page. And why it probably won't ever happen.
Saying people should just use N2's rules misses the point - a lot of people play pick up games, and N2 profiles that both players need to agree on not only on use, but rules interpretations, is going to have less chance of getting used than Mercenaries do with legal profiles.
This goes a bit beyond Ko Dali. This removed 4 whole units, with multiple profiles each, and one of the most expensive models they sell, which people paid good money for. it's understandable that people are bitter. I don't think some non-ITS legal rules is asking too much as a good will gesture. Saying 'we'll totally explain why we removed them from the game' doesn't do much to make it easier to swallow.
I think you're pretending that the reaction to "We're removing the Exrah from the game, but here are the profiles you would have been able to use if we hadn't removed them" would have been better somehow.
That would change the shouting to "If you spent all of the effort on these new profiles, why don't we get to use them in ITS?" and "If you spent all of this effort, why did you discontinue the models? Why do you hate new Combined players enough to put them at a disadvantage?" or "Why do you hate veteran players so much?" if the profiles weren't as good as they used to be. Or worse, if the "unofficial" profile ended up overpowered, and became an object lesson in "And that's why you should never play with unofficial models..."
The situation for CB with the discontinued models is: Damned if you do and damned if you don't. And I know I'm doing my small share of cursing over the matter, out of inertia if nothing else. Striking the models from the game is the brutal, but clean way to deal with the situation.
Casey's Law wrote:We should do another Dakka Painting Contest in it's honour.
Exrah, Exrah, Squat All About It!
Too soon?
No, not at all!
I love it!
We should absolutely do this, even on an unofficial level, right here in River City the INFINITY forum if we have to!
Hmmm, I was joking but it actually would be a nice send off. I think we'd definitely have to go unofficial but I'd be happy to run it like the previous Dakka challenges but on a small scale. Do we even need a prize if it's just a bit of fun? Well, colour me interested. Pm me if you'd rather.
I think the paint comp/ vow thing would be a good idea and it would give me an excuse to finish painting my remaining Exrah (some of them haven't even been on the table yet ).
Casey's Law wrote: Well I have added a Caskuda to the insidious order I am placing with Shae.
Hell yeah!
Fight the power!
I am looking forward to the FAREWELL TO EXRAH (EXRAH STAGE LEFT!) Painting Bootleg Unofficial Competiton/Vow!
Glad to see its already got a catchy title!
You're right that is far too catchy. How about:
Exrah, Exrah, farewell to Exrah! A.K.A. Exrah Stage Left! OR Exrah Vision - Seeing the End of the Road [A Painting, Modelling, Corvus Belli, Infinity the Game, Bootleg, Miniature, Unofficial, Just For Fun, Competition, Challenge, Vow on Dakka Dakka] #savethecaskuda #emotional #theymightevenbecomingback
So how serious are we about doing a wee comp/vow thing for a laugh? Do we wana just bash this out with everyone involved or should we just knock it about via pm for a while? Public sounds good to me for the big stuff, particularly since it's for fun. I'm more than happy to put some organisation behind it if you don't want to, Alph?
Casey's Law wrote: So how serious are we about doing a wee comp/vow thing for a laugh? Do we wana just bash this out with everyone involved or should we just knock it about via pm for a while? Public sounds good to me for the big stuff, particularly since it's for fun. I'm more than happy to put some organisation behind it if you don't want to, Alph?
Reasonably serious? How about starting a separate sign up thread and can put more details in there? Obviously there won't be many people doing it because no-one ever bought the models!
Casey's Law wrote: So how serious are we about doing a wee comp/vow thing for a laugh? Do we wana just bash this out with everyone involved or should we just knock it about via pm for a while? Public sounds good to me for the big stuff, particularly since it's for fun. I'm more than happy to put some organisation behind it if you don't want to, Alph?
Reasonably serious? How about starting a separate sign up thread and can put more details in there? Obviously there won't be many people doing it because no-one ever bought the models!
Hah! Yep that sounds like a plan. I'll get right on it!
Yeh it definitely doesn't look like we are winning, haha. It's not even much of a send off at this point. I can't decide whether my Cassie should be a heap of scrap metal, a massive roach or(stealing an idea that IJW mentioned) a Nomad refit.
Honestly, the Caskuda has the exact same stats as the Raicho, so that's what it will be. Saves me the cost of buying a model.
I doubt my area will see any official tournaments, and if anyone gives me trouble, I will slap them.
You start giving people crap for using a model they paid for, you go down the dark rabbit hole of GW's discontinuation policies. This policy is already a step over that line, no matter how much some fanboys across multiple forums try to spin it.
Vertrucio wrote: Honestly, the Caskuda has the exact same stats as the Raicho, so that's what it will be. Saves me the cost of buying a model.
I doubt my area will see any official tournaments, and if anyone gives me trouble, I will slap them.
You start giving people crap for using a model they paid for, you go down the dark rabbit hole of GW's discontinuation policies. This policy is already a step over that line, no matter how much some fanboys across multiple forums try to spin it.
Don't slap them lol, throw the Caskuda at their face, he doubles as an effective projectile
Haha, well that's good. I'm totally up for it I'm just a bit stumped and not feeling very creative these days. I'll definitely come around to it, lets not worry about the finish date.
Starting list:
2 assembled Void Operators
2 assembled Iskallers (transparencies to be added after painting)
1 assembled and primed Vector Operator
1 half-assembled Caskuda
1 unassembled Caskuda in box
4 unassembled Void Operators
The computer I'm using decided to stop talking to the camera after getting this image, doesn't want to acknowledge the picture showing the half re-assembled Caskuda.
Disclaimer: This is much more a "Assembly and painting motivation" thread than anything else for me, at the moment.
Won't count as two Caskuda's until the second one's assembled, though. And I'll have to fight the urge to try doing a standing conversion. And, to be honest, I bought the second one so I could build one normal (crouched) and then try to build one standing....
And there's nothing like a bit of blackmail for getting some games! 
