All event information here: https://www.frontlinegaming.org/community/wargamescon/

Hey everyone, Wargames Con is back!

We're helping to run the event this year and it is going to be a blast!

We've got Warhammer 40k Champtionships ITC style, 40k Doubles, and an awesome Narrative event!

Warhammer Fantasy!

Warmachine and Hordes events all weekend!

X-Wing!

Flames of War Nationals event!

Tons of fun in the awesome city that is Austin, TX!

This event is shaping up to be really fantastic, and we hope to see you all there.

Primer event for Wargames Con in San Antonio at the Top Deck Gaming Center! Win free tickets to the event!

https://www.facebook.com/events/1592768387671472/1592768391004805/

Primer comingup this weekend as well as 6/6

Nice, good luck with that Primer event!

can't wait!

Be awesome to have you there, buddy!

I am planning to attend this one as a tune up for ATC. Can't wait.

Always a pleasure to have you, buddy!

 Reecius wrote:
Nice, good luck with that Primer event!

It was awesome, huge turnout (38 people?) driving in from all over Texas. Tabletop is a great new store. Was happy that the Hexfleet was able to take Best General!

But I will add just as a gentle nudge that the event was significantly more fun and diverse thanks to being able to take more than 2 detachments, haha.

 Virules wrote:

 Reecius wrote:
Nice, good luck with that Primer event!

It was awesome, huge turnout (38 people?) driving in from all over Texas. Tabletop is a great new store. Was happy that the Hexfleet was able to take Best General!

But I will add just as a gentle nudge that the event was significantly more fun and diverse thanks to being able to take more than 2 detachments, haha.

Hey, we are flexible The local crowd wanted 3 detachments, they are the heart of the event, we are happy to oblige =)

Sounds like a killer event, tell them to please send in the results so we can log all your ITC points! We look forward to seeing you at the big event!

My concerns are more base in nature. Will there be a bar in the convention hall? Are we looking at cheap Shiner?

 themonk wrote:
My concerns are more base in nature. Will there be a bar in the convention hall? Are we looking at cheap Shiner?

I can relate, good sir!

$2 Beers at Wargames Con!

 Reecius wrote:

 themonk wrote:
My concerns are more base in nature. Will there be a bar in the convention hall? Are we looking at cheap Shiner?

I can relate, good sir!

$2 Beers at Wargames Con!

Tickets bought.

Haha, awesome!

I'm thinking about going, but I also want to visit a friend while down in Austin. Is it free to just be there and spectate or would he need to buy a badge just to get in and hang out?

Reecius, I don't see a list of vendors but be aware of a person who failed to deliver on a kickstarter and is from the Houston area. Robert Mims', "The Mini Box" is more than a year overdue. Robert admits to having the product in his possession and has promised to ship on multiple occasions but has only delivered to backers in the Houston area who met him personally. He also took additional funds from backers via paypal for "expedited" shipping but never mailed anything.

Numerous backers are currently investigating legal recourse in the matter.

I don't anticipate him trying to shop his wares at Wargames Con but thought it wise to cover our bases and make you aware.

I'll be registering for this and ATC this Friday !

@Requizen

We hope to see you there! There is a Con Badge to come in, which gets you access to vendors, $2 Beers, and lots of fun socializing!

@Agnosto

Thank you for the heads up. We will be aware of that.

@Dozer

See you there, buddy!

Reecius dont forget about the arm wrestling contest !

FNP Wargamers (Johnathan, Andrew and T.J.!) will be there!

Can't wait to see everyone there! Going to be a blast.

Reecius, if I buy a con ticket and you have open 40k tables available, will you allow open gaming on sat and sun?

 themonk wrote:
Reecius, if I buy a con ticket and you have open 40k tables available, will you allow open gaming on sat and sun?

Their were open 40k tables last year, dont know if that means anything for this year tho.
@Reecius... If your going to be attending, and there is some open time, could I challenge you to a game?

Hi Reecius !!! We can still use existing SM codex for GT right ?

Dozer Blades, Reece will have the official answer but it stands to reason that since the SM codex is being released a month before the tournament that the new SM codex will be used. We'll see though, they might do a 3 week release schedule like the Mechanicum and then the codex would be released a week before the tournament, lol.

That's cutting it really close. I spoke with Reecius I am attending so I'd have one last opportunity to play my BikeStar... And it's obviously less than a month.

Something makes me think you'll want to go with the new codex, BBF

We will allow both books to be used, as we always do in this type of scenario.

Just be SURE to notate on your list if you are using the new or old book, please.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And be sure to get your rooms, everyone! The group rate is going to expire, soon!

Can they ally is what I want to know now brother !

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Can they ally is what I want to know now brother !

That would be pretty darn silly if they allowed that lol.

@Dozer Blades

No, they cannot mix in any way at all.

I was just kidding.

For the narrative, there are no superheavies outside of the Saturday event, correct?

Can't wait! WIll be a blast!

In the past it was all old or all new. No mixing.

There is a new sheriff in town cow poke .

Yeah, no mixing. You can use either the old codex or new, but your army may not contain any elements of the other book.

Im trying to make this event. Is there a schedule? What time does the tourny wrap up sunday? I need to arange a flight home sunday night.

Which event will you be playing in?

 Reecius wrote:
Which event will you be playing in?

Could you post the schedule for the 40K championships? I couldn't find it on the website.

Also, will you allow open 40K gaming all weekend for those with just convention passes (if tables are available)?

40K Champs

Schedule
Saturday, 6-20-15
Registration: 9:00am
Round 1: 10:00am-12:45pm
Lunch: 12:45pm
Round 2: 1:30pm-4:15pm
Round 3: 4:30pm-7:15pm
Sunday, 6-21-15
Round 4: 10:00am-12:45pm
Lunch: 12:45pm
Round 5: 1:30pm-4:15pm
Awards: 4:45pm


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry, it somehow got hidden on the event info page, fixed it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@themonk

If there are open tables that is no issue, but it takes a backseat in priority to the scheduled events.

Five rounds is awesome !

Several questions arise with the arrival of the new sm codex:
The most relevant to wargamescon being: Is the new book in or was there a "new rules cutoff point" somewhere?

If the answer to that is "yes it's allowed," then there are several FAQ style questions that come up, like can you run a double Demi-company to make a full battle company even though that would sort of be two of the same formation (albeit inside a single mega-formation.) Can you upgrade a captain to a chapter master and still have him count as a captain for formations, and do iron hands vehicles get IWND, are just a few examples among them.

(I'm hoping the answer is "no there was a cutoff point so we wouldn't be blindsided by half-working rules a week before," so we won't run into several of those questions before they've been explored.)

This is my response to the same question in a previous thread on the double demi company problem. It fully depends on the wording.

 OverwatchCNC wrote:

General Hobbs wrote:


Suprised no one has asked it yet.

The formation with 2 demi companies and an auxiliary that allows free transports....

Will TO's allow this, since it essentially allows 400-600 free points to a list.

In its defense, the old Blood Angels book where you rolled for Death Company, you could get an extra 200 points in wargear.

Love to know opinions on the matter ( and so I know if I should start playing mine to get practice in).

While I disagree with it the ITC restriction on no duplicate formations COULD make the 2 demi company formation illegal based on the wording. If it is a single formation then it would be cool under ITC, if it is a benefit you gain from taking two formations, ie "If you take two demi-company formations you gain blah blah blah..." then the ITC ruling on duplicate formations would apply and it would be a no go in ITC formatted events.

Edit: I don't speak for ITC or Reece it's just what my reading of the ITC leads me to believe. I don't know the exact wording from the new SM codex yet.

I think he, Reece, already said the new book would be allowed.

 OverwatchCNC wrote:
This is my response to the same question in a previous thread on the double demi company problem. It fully depends on the wording.

 OverwatchCNC wrote:

General Hobbs wrote:


Suprised no one has asked it yet.

The formation with 2 demi companies and an auxiliary that allows free transports....

Will TO's allow this, since it essentially allows 400-600 free points to a list.

In its defense, the old Blood Angels book where you rolled for Death Company, you could get an extra 200 points in wargear.

Love to know opinions on the matter ( and so I know if I should start playing mine to get practice in).

While I disagree with it the ITC restriction on no duplicate formations COULD make the 2 demi company formation illegal based on the wording. If it is a single formation then it would be cool under ITC, if it is a benefit you gain from taking two formations, ie "If you take two demi-company formations you gain blah blah blah..." then the ITC ruling on duplicate formations would apply and it would be a no go in ITC formatted events.

Edit: I don't speak for ITC or Reece it's just what my reading of the ITC leads me to believe. I don't know the exact wording from the new SM codex yet.

I think he, Reece, already said the new book would be allowed.

It argue the ruling is already clear. Gladius Strike Force is a special detachment exactly like the Necron Decurion and the Eldar Craftworld detachments. Both of those are already allowed to take duplicate choices of subordinate formations (i.e. multiple Canoptek Harvests, Aspect Hosts, etc.) as the entire detachment counts as one of your two detachments. There is no reason the Gladius Strike Force wouldn't follow this precedent.

Makes sense to me Panzer.

@Panzer Leader

No, you CANNOT take multiple duplicate sub-formations in a Decurion detachment, please do not show up with a list that features that. You can only ever have 1 of any detachment, treat them all as 0-1.

You can take multiple auxiliary selections such as the Maulerfiend in a KDK army as they are not a detachment unto themselves, but a unit entry in the detachment.

I know building a list in 7th ed is confusing, we try to communicate it as clearly as possible.

@niv

We are debating the demi-company/battle company issue, now. I personally read it as a single detachment called the Battle Company that has a different name and rules and therefore does not violate the 0-1 detachment rule for the ITC. Some of the guys on the team are playing Devil's advocate and arguing the other side of it, though. We will have a decision once the book comes out.

As for the Chapter Master issue, I read it as no, as the Chapter Master is not a captain, and the formation itself does not allow you to take any named Chapter Masters which indicates intent, in my mind.

 Reecius wrote:
@Panzer Leader

No, you CANNOT take multiple duplicate sub-formations in a Decurion detachment, please do not show up with a list that features that. You can only ever have 1 of any detachment, treat them all as 0-1.

You can take multiple auxiliary selections such as the Maulerfiend in a KDK army as they are not a detachment unto themselves, but a unit entry in the detachment.

I know building a list in 7th ed is confusing, we try to communicate it as clearly as possible.

@niv

We are debating the demi-company/battle company issue, now. I personally read it as a single detachment called the Battle Company that has a different name and rules and therefore does not violate the 0-1 detachment rule for the ITC. Some of the guys on the team are playing Devil's advocate and arguing the other side of it, though. We will have a decision once the book comes out.

As for the Chapter Master issue, I read it as no, as the Chapter Master is not a captain, and the formation itself does not allow you to take any named Chapter Masters which indicates intent, in my mind.

Thanks for the responses, although the biggest question on my mind remains unanswered: does wargames con have a cutoff date for new rules, AKA can this marine 'dex legally show up since it's like...next week.

As for intent of chapter masters. It's a rough call. In the command sub formation you can take several of the named masters, including Calgar, but it once again only mentions a nameless captain and no nameless chapter master. This leads me to believe that you can take the captain unit selection to qualify, and upgrade him to a chapter master, much how a predator is still a predator even after you upgrade it to the annihilator variant. I can see the issue though, as I can't think of any unit where an entire 2nd statline is used to replace the first for the whole unit. It just strikes me as strange that nowhere in the gladius do they have "chapter master" available, even with the named ones, and that may be because there is no chapter master unit selection.

 Reecius wrote:
@Panzer Leader

No, you CANNOT take multiple duplicate sub-formations in a Decurion detachment, please do not show up with a list that features that. You can only ever have 1 of any detachment, treat them all as 0-1.

You can take multiple auxiliary selections such as the Maulerfiend in a KDK army as they are not a detachment unto themselves, but a unit entry in the detachment.

I know building a list in 7th ed is confusing, we try to communicate it as clearly as possible.

@niv

We are debating the demi-company/battle company issue, now. I personally read it as a single detachment called the Battle Company that has a different name and rules and therefore does not violate the 0-1 detachment rule for the ITC. Some of the guys on the team are playing Devil's advocate and arguing the other side of it, though. We will have a decision once the book comes out.

As for the Chapter Master issue, I read it as no, as the Chapter Master is not a captain, and the formation itself does not allow you to take any named Chapter Masters which indicates intent, in my mind.

Thanks. I always get that backwards.

No time limit, no. The new Marine dex will be good to go as will the 6th ed book, but if you take one book, no aspect of your army may be drawn from the other book. They are 100% mutually exclusive.

And yeah, typically ambiguous GW rules. The kicker for me, is that in the detachment description where it lists who can sub in for the Captain, it lists only named Captains and no Named Chapter masters. That was what convinced me that yes, they meant Captains and only Captains. YMMV, of course, and I am sure a lot of Space marine players WANT it to include Chapter masters for obvious reasons, haha, but the battle Company is already very powerful as is.

It's so fluffy !

@Dozer

It really is. Yes, you will typically get about 250-300pts of free transports, which will ruffle some feathers, but a lot of formations and detachments do that, now and have for a while. Obviously, GW does it to drive sales, but, I honestly don't think the Battle Company is OP at all, it looks very fun to play with and against, and will be very good at winning missions, but compared to a Deathstar list, I know what I'd rather play against any day of the week.

@Panzer Leader

Happy to help!

I had another Q bugging me about ITC scoring.
Your main faction is whatever your primary detachment is, (which is the one with your warlord in it,) regardless of points spent, correct?

It feels kind of lame that someone could say...be the best dark eldar player in the ITC because they have a dozen dark eldar and an archon/Haemon/succubus warlord next to 1600+ points of eldar.

Yes, that is a common complaint, but the bookkeeping involved with adding up everyone's detachments and determining which had the most points would be extremely unwieldy when you are dealing with thousands of players. Until we come up with a way to digitally check lists, it isn't a realistic goal.

Whose fired up for a fantastic weekend with Reecius, FLG and the BoLS crew ???

Can't wait !!!

Gonna be a blast!

Also, for those using the new Space Marine 7th ed codex, we are allowing the Space Marine Battle Company for those who have been asking.

SM FAQ question. Can you join ICs to the 1st turn assualt Skyforce Formation?

Massive traffic problems and road closing on 35 between mile marker 31 to 55 in OK. Avoid if possible

azazel70820 wrote:
SM FAQ question. Can you join ICs to the 1st turn assualt Skyforce Formation?

While I am not the TO, my answer here would be a No and this is why:

1. The IC does not have the special rule. Thus, he slows down the unit. Just like an IC with terminator armor in a unit prevents that unit from making sweeping advances.

2. It is the more conservative ruling, thus making an already very powerful rule/combo (don't forget, no Overwatch!) not brokenly powerful, like taking a 5-man Assault squad and putting 5 IC's in there to make a massive multi-assault.

Best of luck, everyone! Stay dry!

 jy2 wrote:

azazel70820 wrote:
SM FAQ question. Can you join ICs to the 1st turn assualt Skyforce Formation?

While I am not the TO, my answer here would be a No and this is why:

1. The IC does not have the special rule. Thus, he slows down the unit. Just like an IC with terminator armor in a unit prevents that unit from making sweeping advances.

2. It is the more conservative ruling, thus making an already very powerful rule/combo (don't forget, no Overwatch!) not brokenly powerful, like taking a 5-man Assault squad and putting 5 IC's in there to make a massive multi-assault.

Reece ruled on this in the BAO thread. The answer is no.

Do we know about iron hands non-dreadnought vehicles and whether they get IWND?

Good luck to everyone playing!

niv-mizzet wrote:
Do we know about iron hands non-dreadnought vehicles and whether they get IWND?

The codex is pretty clear. Vehicles don't have Chapter Tactics.

 OverwatchCNC wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:
Do we know about iron hands non-dreadnought vehicles and whether they get IWND?

The codex is pretty clear. Vehicles don't have Chapter Tactics.

The rulebook is very clear about unbound and rerollable 2+ saves being allowed. TO's and the rulebooks sometimes disagree.

No ICs with the Skyhammer Formation for Wargames Con.

We'll see you all here! Day 1 is already on and going.

Updates?

Who be winning??? Also is there a link for any live stream at the event?

I'm up 3-0 with my battle company ATM. I saw some knights up in the top tables with me. I haven't had much time to scout after games started.
There's a 10 year old girl competing as well. That in itself is awesome. Friend said she was playing chaos marines I think.

niv-mizzet wrote:
I'm up 3-0 with my battle company ATM. I saw some knights up in the top tables with me. I haven't had much time to scout after games started.
There's a 10 year old girl competing as well. That in itself is awesome. Friend said she was playing chaos marines I think.

Thanks for the update and best of luck to you.

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2015/06/21/wargames-con-day-3-update-40k-championships/

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2015/06/19/wargames-con-day-1/

Updates!

40k Champs has a great spread in the finals, only army represented twice is Eldar and Marines in the top 10.

 Reecius wrote:
https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2015/06/21/wargames-con-day-3-update-40k-championships/

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2015/06/19/wargames-con-day-1/

Updates!

40k Champs has a great spread in the finals, only army represented twice is Eldar and Marines in the top 10.

That's not what the internet said was supposed to happen. It was supposed to be all Eldar all the time. they're so OP they are supposed to beat everything else so easily that the game was just plain broken.

Well, to be fair, they are beating up on folks pretty badly and if you count the Dark Eldar with Eldar, they are the most represented army in the undefeted bracket. But, a lot of the most skilled players here are opting to do something different on purpose to prove a point.

Make no mistake, Eldar have the most pure power in the game without a doubt, but, they are not unbeatable. They have quite a vulnerability to reserve units such as pods or outflankers that can pack a big punch. Head to head though, even Crons just melt to them. You have to have a trick up your sleeve to deal with them.

All 3 Deldar players drew tough matches, though, so we'll see how many make it through to round 5.

 OverwatchCNC wrote:

 Reecius wrote:
https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2015/06/21/wargames-con-day-3-update-40k-championships/

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2015/06/19/wargames-con-day-1/

Updates!

40k Champs has a great spread in the finals, only army represented twice is Eldar and Marines in the top 10.

That's not what the internet said was supposed to happen. It was supposed to be all Eldar all the time. they're so OP they are supposed to beat everything else so easily that the game was just plain broken.

'

That is actually pretty on point. Eldar and now Space marines are the top two armies IMO. Dont forget that this is an ITC event so eldar are actually toned down and still doing well.

Yeah, we limit the number of Wraithknights, which is the big thing. Plus, D weapons get toned down a bit, too. All the Deldar players got knocked out in very close games, last round. Super close games.

Finals is:
1st: Darkwyn: Scouts, Grav Cents and a Culexus
2nd: Pajama Pants with Orks and Daemons
3rd: Ben Mohlie with a Necron Deathstar
4th: Mike McKinney with a Min/Maxed Battle Company, Culexus and some Blood Angels

Go Big Ben !!!

Are Ben Mohlie and Ben Cromwell the same person?

And if not are their necron deathstars essentially the same loadout? (orikan + wraiths + solar staff)?

What Necron Deathstar is Ben running? Is it my fave Orikanstar?

What is in the pj pants ork/demon list? Sounds interesting

Can someone post what list the top 2 or 3 players had? Its crazy that the new space marines formation took 4th.

Sounds like this tourney was super rocking !!!

Requizen wrote:
What Necron Deathstar is Ben running? Is it my fave Orikanstar?

He had rec legion with lyches and zandrekh, destroyer cult, canoptek harvest, and then allied Orikan + immortals, so yeah Orikan. He ended up beating me in the finals mainly by going 2nd. He was pretty flabbergasted at how many units he had to kill from my army though.

Breazeal wrote:
Are Ben Mohlie and Ben Cromwell the same person?

No they are not.

No chance in getting lists for the top 4 is there?

Great event! We had a blast, it ran smooth, everyone was enjoying themselves. Couldn't ask for too much more.

Congratz to Pajama Pants for for winning tournament champion, beating Darkwynn in the finals, and to Space Curves for beating niv-mizzet to win Renaissance Man.

Could we get a peek at the lists?

Who or what are pajama pants?

buckero0 wrote:
Who or what are pajama pants?

Alan Bajmoravic(sp?) He's a really great player from Chicago. He has won many GTs and placed high in many others. His nickname is pajama pants.

Great game 5 niv-mizzet, flabbergasted is the right word for the amount of units in the battle company. I got 28 KP and I still would have been in trouble if I didn't get second turn! It was a great event, I just wish there was a 6th round so Alan and I could duke it out, we both ended undefeated.

For those asking, here is the army I used:

Decurian Detatchment
Nemesor Zahndrekh
Lychguard: 8 lychguard with warscythes
5 immortals: gauss blasters
10 Warriors: gauss flayers
10 Warriors: gauss flayers
Tomb Blades: 3 tomb blades, gauss blasters, Nebuloscopes (ignore cover)

Canoptek Harvest
Wraiths: 6 wraiths with whip coils
Spyder
Scarabs: 3 scarabs

Destroyer Cult
Destroyer Lord: staff of light, The Veil of Darkness, Resurrection Orb
Destroyers: 3 destroyers
Destroyers: 3 destroyers
Destroyers: 3 destroyers

Allied Necron Detatchment
Orikan the diviner
Immortals: 5 immortals with tesla carbines

Spacecurves wrote:
Great game 5 niv-mizzet, flabbergasted is the right word for the amount of units in the battle company. I got 28 KP and I still would have been in trouble if I didn't get second turn! It was a great event, I just wish there was a 6th round so Alan and I could duke it out, we both ended undefeated.

For those asking, here is the army I used:

Decurian Detatchment
Nemesor Zahndrekh
Lychguard: 8 lychguard with warscythes
5 immortals: gauss blasters
10 Warriors: gauss flayers
10 Warriors: gauss flayers
Tomb Blades: 3 tomb blades, gauss blasters, Nebuloscopes (ignore cover)

Canoptek Harvest
Wraiths: 6 wraiths with whip coils
Spyder
Scarabs: 3 scarabs

Destroyer Cult
Destroyer Lord: staff of light, The Veil of Darkness, Resurrection Orb
Destroyers: 3 destroyers
Destroyers: 3 destroyers
Destroyers: 3 destroyers

Allied Necron Detatchment
Orikan the diviner
Immortals: 5 immortals with tesla carbines

Woah, that's really interesting. I often run an Orikanstar with Shield Lychguard, to take advantage of the insane durability they have. But I guess against armies that don't have a lot of AP2/AP3 weaponry, 3+ armor is just as good. Cheaper, too, and more killy, but I would be afraid of a lot of things shooting at them.

What were you using the DLord with? I dunno how I feel about him without a Warscythe. I guess you were just using him to teleport one of the units and then give PE/Res Orb out?

Also, how did you guys rule Orikan's interaction with Wraiths? RAW he doesn't give them rerolls to 1s on their save unless the Spyder popped RP, is that how Wargames Con ruled it?

 OverwatchCNC wrote:

buckero0 wrote:
Who or what are pajama pants?

Alan Bajmoravic(sp?) He's a really great player from Chicago. He has won many GTs and placed high in many others. His nickname is pajama pants.

Because of what he always wears... Felt I had to add that bit.

I heard a SOB player made 6th?

 pretre wrote:
I heard a SOB player made 6th?

Give it up Pretre... SoB are dead...

 Tomb King wrote:

 pretre wrote:
I heard a SOB player made 6th?

Give it up Pretre... SoB are dead...

According to who?

 Tomb King wrote:

 pretre wrote:
I heard a SOB player made 6th?

Give it up Pretre... SoB are dead...

Sisters are very much alive....unless you run into space curves Decurion in a KP mission.

Panzer leader speaks the truth , any other mission it would have been a different story.

@ Requizen: You don't need the shields on the lychguard, zandrehk stands in front for 2+ save vs. shooting, and D lord is with them to. They start in a ruin or out of LOS, then teleport up usually turn 1, ideally into another ruin as zandrehk turns on stealth ruins. D lord pops res orb and vs. most anything, every model has a 3+, 4+, 4+. Its ridiculous how hard they are to kill. Then they multicharge everything and murder it with a billion warscythe attacks.

Also orikan lets you reroll 1's on your saves, not RP rolls, so hes amazing with wraiths all the time.

End result is you have two units that hit super hard in CC and are almost impossible to kill with shooting.

Spacecurves wrote:
Panzer leader speaks the truth , any other mission it would have been a different story.

@ Requizen: You don't need the shields on the lychguard, zandrehk stands in front for 2+ save vs. shooting, and D lord is with them to. They start in a ruin or out of LOS, then teleport up usually turn 1, ideally into another ruin as zandrehk turns on stealth ruins. D lord pops res orb and vs. most anything, every model has a 3+, 4+, 4+. Its ridiculous how hard they are to kill. Then they multicharge everything and murder it with a billion warscythe attacks.

Neat, that's quite a cool way to do it. I generally use the Shieldguard star with Orikan as a brick, since people generally can't kill off 3++ rerolling 1s/4+++ rerolling 1s, occasinally with Res Orb. Power Swords are good, but obviously Warscythes are better.

Also orikan lets you reroll 1's on your saves, not RP rolls, so hes amazing with wraiths all the time.

The wording on Orikan's special rule states that the unit has to have Reanimation Protocols to get the rerolls to hit:
"Orikan and all models with the Reanimation Protocols special rule in his unit recive a +1 bonus to Reanimation Protocols rolls and can reroll saving throws of a 1."

Emphasis mine. So, Wraiths without Reanimation Protocols shouldn't get the rerolls of 1, RAW. Once you pop the Spyder in the formation to give them the rule, they can get the reroll. Not that the Wraiths are bad, they're still, you know, Wraiths.

End result is you have two units that hit super hard in CC and are almost impossible to kill with shooting.

So does Orikan always go with the Wraiths or does he jump back and forth depending on the game? 2+ rerollable armor on Zahndrekh is pretty sick.

Spacecurves wrote:
Panzer leader speaks the truth , any other mission it would have been a different story.

@ Requizen: You don't need the shields on the lychguard, zandrehk stands in front for 2+ save vs. shooting, and D lord is with them to. They start in a ruin or out of LOS, then teleport up usually turn 1, ideally into another ruin as zandrehk turns on stealth ruins. D lord pops res orb and vs. most anything, every model has a 3+, 4+, 4+. Its ridiculous how hard they are to kill. Then they multicharge everything and murder it with a billion warscythe attacks.

Also orikan lets you reroll 1's on your saves, not RP rolls, so hes amazing with wraiths all the time.

End result is you have two units that hit super hard in CC and are almost impossible to kill with shooting.

How does it teleport? I might have missed it.

Breazeal wrote:

Spacecurves wrote:
Panzer leader speaks the truth , any other mission it would have been a different story.

@ Requizen: You don't need the shields on the lychguard, zandrehk stands in front for 2+ save vs. shooting, and D lord is with them to. They start in a ruin or out of LOS, then teleport up usually turn 1, ideally into another ruin as zandrehk turns on stealth ruins. D lord pops res orb and vs. most anything, every model has a 3+, 4+, 4+. Its ridiculous how hard they are to kill. Then they multicharge everything and murder it with a billion warscythe attacks.

Also orikan lets you reroll 1's on your saves, not RP rolls, so hes amazing with wraiths all the time.

End result is you have two units that hit super hard in CC and are almost impossible to kill with shooting.

How does it teleport? I might have missed it.

DLord has the Veil of Darkness, one use teleport.

Anybody know what pajama pants was running? Im curious as to what orks bring to daemons. Tide+summoning? Cheap artillery?

Breazeal wrote:
What is in the pj pants ork/demon list? Sounds interesting

I walked by because I was interested in his list as well. Unfortunately, because he was summoning, and I'm not an expert on Demons, I'm not sure the full details, but the Ork portion looked to be Mogrok's Bossboyz featuring a Warboss and Big Mek on Bike, and 2 Big Meks with Shokk Attack guns. The Wierdboy was summoning. He appeared to have a Khorne Demonkin detachment (With a heldrake and a bloodthirster), and a Demon detachment with a KoS and Fateweaver.

Like I said he was summoning a bunch, so I'm not sure what started in the list and what was summoned into it later.

I'd wager the KoS was summoned. Doesnt find its way into lists very often, but it is the most attractive choice if arriving via possession

@ Requizen: Ooooh that's what you meant, yes sorry I misunderstood. It's pretty rare that the wraiths don't have RP up, I think the spyder only died in one game. Tournaments have pretty good LOS blocking terrain these days thank goodness, so the spyder can hide most of the time.

I don't always put Orikan with the wraiths, he sometimes goes with the lychguard if I know they are going to get lit up big time. For example vs. 40 scat bikes and sun cannon wraith lords I put him with the lychguard, ported up in front of them, and weathered the storm with alllll the rerolls. Only thing to remember is that at ITC 2+ saves are only rerolled on 4+, so I usually don't actually tank that much with zandrehk, and just let the lychguard take the hits.

Requizen wrote:

Breazeal wrote:

Spacecurves wrote:
Panzer leader speaks the truth , any other mission it would have been a different story.

@ Requizen: You don't need the shields on the lychguard, zandrehk stands in front for 2+ save vs. shooting, and D lord is with them to. They start in a ruin or out of LOS, then teleport up usually turn 1, ideally into another ruin as zandrehk turns on stealth ruins. D lord pops res orb and vs. most anything, every model has a 3+, 4+, 4+. Its ridiculous how hard they are to kill. Then they multicharge everything and murder it with a billion warscythe attacks.

Also orikan lets you reroll 1's on your saves, not RP rolls, so hes amazing with wraiths all the time.

End result is you have two units that hit super hard in CC and are almost impossible to kill with shooting.

How does it teleport? I might have missed it.

DLord has the Veil of Darkness, one use teleport.

I see it now! Veil and shroud run together for me for some reason.

For the wraiths teleporting around with the veil, wouldn't they lose both the orikan reroll and the spyder rp?

Were there games where you didn't teleport? Or ever a fear to mishap? They seem so fast naturally. Were they usually able to kill the things they double charged?

Was everything else reserved in games you went second or typically start on board?

Thanks to everyone for coming! It was a great event, had a ton of fun.

More accurate info on Alan's list? The "guess" posted earlier does not make any sense.

Tolp wrote:
More accurate info on Alan's list? The "guess" posted earlier does not make any sense.

Pretty sure the pyjama pants list is under fight club rules now, and you don't talk about fight club.

There's a write up half way down the wgc thread on frontlines page.

I'm still curious what he did on the khorne daemonkin side of things and whether the bloodthirster was purchased with points or a sacrifice from the khorne daemonkin wargear.

He didn't take Khorne Daemonkin.

He had an Ork formation- Mogrok's Bully Boys w/ Warboss on Bike, Wierdboy lvl 2, x2 Big Meks w/ Shok Atk Gunz, Big Mek on Bike

CAD of Daemons- Fatey, Bloodthirster, x3 Nurglings, x11 Horrors

CSM Allies- Belakor, x10 Cultists, Helldrake

SCP Yeeman wrote:
He didn't take Khorne Daemonkin.

He had an Ork formation- Mogrok's Bully Boys w/ Warboss on Bike, Wierdboy lvl 2, x2 Big Meks w/ Shok Atk Gunz, Big Mek on Bike

CAD of Daemons- Fatey, Bloodthirster, x3 Nurglings, x11 Horrors

CSM Allies- Belakor, x10 Cultists, Helldrake

That's right. I saw the Bloodthirster and assumed Demonkin, but he definitely had all of those things, and was probably summoning everything else.

Any word on what was in Darkwyn's list?

From Pajama Pants himself on frontline:
Formation: Mogrok’s Bossboyz (6#, 508 pts)
1 Mogrok’s Bossboyz, 0 pts
1 Big Mek Mogrok, 105 pts = (base cost 35 + Warbike 25 + Kombi Weapon with
Skorcha 10 + Power Klaw 25 + Da Finkin’ Kap 10)
1 Warboss, 135 pts = (base cost 60 + Warbike 25 + Power Klaw 25 + Da Lucky
Stikk 25)
1 Big Mek, 99 pts = (base cost 35 + Shokk Attack Gun 50 + Ammo Runt x3 9 + Big
Choppa 5)
1 Big Mek, 99 pts = (base cost 35 + Shokk Attack Gun 50 + Ammo Runt x3 9 + Big
Choppa 5)
1 Weirdboy, 70 pts = (base cost 45 + Upgrade to Pysker (Mastery Level 2) 25)
: Combined Arms Detachment (17#, 769 pts)
1 Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage (HQ) [cd], 325 pts = (base cost 275 + DR: Lesser
Rewards x1 10 + DR: Greater Rewards x2 40)
1 Kairos Fateweaver (HQ) [cd], 300 pts
11 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (Troops) [cd], 99 pts = 11 * 9
3 Nurglings (Troops) [cd], 45 pts = 3 * 15
: Allied Detachment (13#, 570 pts)
1 Be’Lakor (HQ) [Chaos], 350 pts
9 Chaos Cultists (Troops) [Chaos], 36 pts = 9 * 4
1 Cultist Champion [Chaos], 14 pts
1 Heldrake (Fast) [Chaos], 170 pts

Wasnt Darkwyn running Marines?

I am so confused!

The pajama pants list reply wasn't to you.

Very interesting and must have taken a good deal of skill to pilot to the top. Im guessing invisible BT most of the time going for D slaps, heldrake doing what heldrakes do, Belakor casting shrouding to give fatey a 2+ rerollable cover save. Another poster on flg was claiming that he was running the
Warboss as his warlord. Between that and the lack of the grimoire in his list this begs the question, why use Fatey at allm
all?

He boasts an impressive amount of powers, but the list only has 11 warp charges. After the near mandatory casting of invis that doesnt leave much at all for summoning or offense.

I have no idea how the orks work in this list. Im assuming they all ball up into some sort of deathstar? Would love to hear someone more experienced with orks comment on this

 pretre wrote:
The pajama pants list reply wasn't to you.

Whoops! Sorry about that.

The D Thirster is no joke with rewards, gifts and psychic buffs... Can be nigh unkillable.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
The D Thirster is no joke with rewards, gifts and psychic buffs... Can be nigh unkillable.

Don't think he gets D here taken in a demon cad.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spacecurves wrote:
Great game 5 niv-mizzet, flabbergasted is the right word for the amount of units in the battle company. I got 28 KP and I still would have been in trouble if I didn't get second turn! It was a great event, I just wish there was a 6th round so Alan and I could duke it out, we both ended undefeated.

For those asking, here is the army I used:

Decurian Detatchment
Nemesor Zahndrekh
Lychguard: 8 lychguard with warscythes
5 immortals: gauss blasters
10 Warriors: gauss flayers
10 Warriors: gauss flayers
Tomb Blades: 3 tomb blades, gauss blasters, Nebuloscopes (ignore cover)

Canoptek Harvest
Wraiths: 6 wraiths with whip coils
Spyder
Scarabs: 3 scarabs

Destroyer Cult
Destroyer Lord: staff of light, The Veil of Darkness, Resurrection Orb
Destroyers: 3 destroyers
Destroyers: 3 destroyers
Destroyers: 3 destroyers

Allied Necron Detatchment
Orikan the diviner
Immortals: 5 immortals with tesla carbines

Was there a solar staff in the list? Heard there was on flg podcast.

When the wraiths teleport do they retain re animation protocols until the beginning of the next turn? I know this was debated but don't know how it was ruled.

You can purchase any of the Bloodthirster variants in a Daemons CAD. Just before the Khorne Daemonkin book came out they released the thirsters as dataslates available in a Chaos Daemons army. They're actually better in the CD book because you can give them rewards.

 astro_nomicon wrote:
Very interesting and must have taken a good deal of skill to pilot to the top. Im guessing invisible BT most of the time going for D slaps, heldrake doing what heldrakes do, Belakor casting shrouding to give fatey a 2+ rerollable cover save. Another poster on flg was claiming that he was running the
Warboss as his warlord. Between that and the lack of the grimoire in his list this begs the question, why use Fatey at allm
all?

He boasts an impressive amount of powers, but the list only has 11 warp charges. After the near mandatory casting of invis that doesnt leave much at all for summoning or offense.

I have no idea how the orks work in this list. Im assuming they all ball up into some sort of deathstar? Would love to hear someone more experienced with orks comment on this

The weirdboy gets +1 warp charge if he has 10 orks by him
The big Mek on bike must be warlord because the formation says so he automatically gets reroll on failed saves
The warlord on bike also gets reroll saves and hits and wound cause lucky stik
The entire point of mogrok formation is garauteed d3 outflanking units with acute senses and +1 to seize
The warlord also has an extra warlord trait cause fink in cap probably strategic
You don't want to blob up these iorks
The shokk atk guns w reroll blasts are there to vorrex or high str blast
The weirdboy doesn't have a bike and is simply a demon summoning soloist
The two bikes can team up and be tough to kill don't forget turbo gives orks +1 jink
My guess he uses this formation to outflank and infiltrate the demons

Interesting, though I don't think he gets to make use of a lot of those rules.

I just looked up the formation and I'm pretty sure Mogrok can only allow Ork units to infiltrate.

There aren't 10 ork models in the whole army so Weirdboyz rule is useless.

I guess the whole point of this formation was an early game pressure unit in the form of the warboss, the two SAGs, a summoner and +1 to seize? Seems weird to me, I just can't wrap my head around the synergy. I guess you could use fateys reroll to make one SAG more reliable, but that hardly seems like a good use of Big Bird.

Breazeal wrote:

Spacecurves wrote:
Great game 5 niv-mizzet, flabbergasted is the right word for the amount of units in the battle company. I got 28 KP and I still would have been in trouble if I didn't get second turn! It was a great event, I just wish there was a 6th round so Alan and I could duke it out, we both ended undefeated.

For those asking, here is the army I used:

Decurian Detatchment
Nemesor Zahndrekh
Lychguard: 8 lychguard with warscythes
5 immortals: gauss blasters
10 Warriors: gauss flayers
10 Warriors: gauss flayers
Tomb Blades: 3 tomb blades, gauss blasters, Nebuloscopes (ignore cover)

Canoptek Harvest
Wraiths: 6 wraiths with whip coils
Spyder
Scarabs: 3 scarabs

Destroyer Cult
Destroyer Lord: staff of light, The Veil of Darkness, Resurrection Orb
Destroyers: 3 destroyers
Destroyers: 3 destroyers
Destroyers: 3 destroyers

Allied Necron Detatchment
Orikan the diviner
Immortals: 5 immortals with tesla carbines

Was there a solar staff in the list? Heard there was on flg podcast.

When the wraiths teleport do they retain re animation protocols until the beginning of the next turn? I know this was debated but don't know how it was ruled.

There can't be one in the list he posted, though it's not entirely needed with the big unit with Res Orbs in Cover.

It doesn't look like there's a FAQ ruling on it for ITC, but most people run it that they have it until the beginning of the owner's next turn. Also, I don't think he was teleporting the Wraiths as much as the Lychguard.

 astro_nomicon wrote:
Interesting, though I don't think he gets to make use of a lot of those rules.

I just looked up the formation and I'm pretty sure Mogrok can only allow Ork units to infiltrate.

There aren't 10 ork models in the whole army so Weirdboyz rule is useless.

I guess the whole point of this formation was an early game pressure unit in the form of the warboss, the two SAGs, a summoner and +1 to seize? Seems weird to me, I just can't wrap my head around the synergy. I guess you could use fateys reroll to make one SAG more reliable, but that hardly seems like a good use of Big Bird.

You are correct I thought it just said friendly unit but it specifically says friendly ork units making outflanking demons not possible.
However the finkin cap can still roll for infiltrate but it's not reliable on a single roll. Not like everything in strategic isn't rear anyway.
And I agree I can't see the synergy either and I play this formation a lot lol.
Also fatey reroll are useless on sags too since they each have 3 ammo runts granting a reroll already.

gungo wrote:

 astro_nomicon wrote:
Interesting, though I don't think he gets to make use of a lot of those rules.

I just looked up the formation and I'm pretty sure Mogrok can only allow Ork units to infiltrate.

There aren't 10 ork models in the whole army so Weirdboyz rule is useless.

I guess the whole point of this formation was an early game pressure unit in the form of the warboss, the two SAGs, a summoner and +1 to seize? Seems weird to me, I just can't wrap my head around the synergy. I guess you could use fateys reroll to make one SAG more reliable, but that hardly seems like a good use of Big Bird.

You are correct I thought it just said friendly unit but it specifically says friendly ork units making outflanking demons not possible.
And I agree I can't see the synergy either and I play this formation a lot lol.
Also fatey reroll are useless on sags too since they each have 3 ammo runts granting a reroll already.

The synergy is he gets to add another ITC event win with an Ork Primary Army, even though it was essentially a Daemon/CSM army.

What winter said. I did the same thing with the marine battle company and my 220 point blood angel CAD that had my warlord just so I was "technically" Blood Angels. It's kind of a cop-out, as it can lead to "best dark eldar" titles going to eldar players and "best orks" going to daemons etc.
I'm hoping they switch to "faction with most points = primary" after this year.

Well thats kind of silly.

That is a common complaint with the ITC format, and yes, gamer's game the system, to no one's surprise. However, keeping track of how many points each player has in each detachment gets extremely burdensome, extremely quickly. However, if we can come up with a good system for tracking it all, we can make the change.

 Reecius wrote:
That is a common complaint with the ITC format, and yes, gamer's game the system, to no one's surprise. However, keeping track of how many points each player has in each detachment gets extremely burdensome, extremely quickly. However, if we can come up with a good system for tracking it all, we can make the change.

Yeah it is pretty tough to do well, or deal with the corner cases. Not sure there's a great answer even if you do go point % based. Also in a wierd way it does promote list diversity and exploration, even if the end result chaffs the 'true' faction player.

It may be the best way is something a bit more categorical instead of pure faction based. Something like what Adepticon does but a bit more granular. Dunno what that would look like though.

Reece,

You could crowd source it. Make a entry on the ITC score sheet that says, What is your opponents primary army? Each player is require to furnish army lists anyway, so all they would have to do is glance at the list and fill out which detachment / formation has the highest points total. In case of a tie which one also has the warlord. For redundancy, you could ask the question on the first "X" missions (two, three, the first day).

It's quite easy to just ask the participant 'which faction contains the most points in your army' and enter that. All the major list builders have print points next to detachments, so at worst it's a quick glance of a list.

What was the turn out?

 Reecius wrote:
That is a common complaint with the ITC format, and yes, gamer's game the system, to no one's surprise. However, keeping track of how many points each player has in each detachment gets extremely burdensome, extremely quickly. However, if we can come up with a good system for tracking it all, we can make the change.

I agree that you may have to have the TOs reporting the scores do the work. More work for me but I wouldn't mind.

Requizen wrote:

There can't be one in the list he posted, though it's not entirely needed with the big unit with Res Orbs in Cover.

It doesn't look like there's a FAQ ruling on it for ITC, but most people run it that they have it until the beginning of the owner's next turn. Also, I don't think he was teleporting the Wraiths as much as the Lychguard.

Yeah if I could fit a solar staff in there too....ermagawd it would be broken. Honestly I think Necrons are the best codex right now because of the decurian.

Eldar are best at doing damage, but Necrons are best at actually winning games because of their insane durability. The only armies that are bad matchups are psychic deathstars, but those are falling out of favor because of Eldar's ability to deny so well, and culexus assassins in drop pods being so common. This means there is very little you have to worry about.

The only thing keeping it somewhat in check is it is tricky to fit in the characters you want. That's one of the main reasons why I took a destroyer cult actually, it gets you a D-Lord who can buy either the Veil or the Staff. The no characters in the decurian is why I had to bring an allied detatchment to fit in Orikan.

Spacecurves wrote:

Requizen wrote:

There can't be one in the list he posted, though it's not entirely needed with the big unit with Res Orbs in Cover.

It doesn't look like there's a FAQ ruling on it for ITC, but most people run it that they have it until the beginning of the owner's next turn. Also, I don't think he was teleporting the Wraiths as much as the Lychguard.

Yeah if I could fit a solar staff in there too....ermagawd it would be broken. Honestly I think Necrons are the best codex right now because of the decurian.

Eldar are best at doing damage, but Necrons are best at actually winning games because of their insane durability. The only armies that are bad matchups are psychic deathstars, but those are falling out of favor because of Eldar's ability to deny so well, and culexus assassins in drop pods being so common. This means there is very little you have to worry about.

The only thing keeping it somewhat in check is it is tricky to fit in the characters you want. That's one of the main reasons why I took a destroyer cult actually, it gets you a D-Lord who can buy either the Veil or the Staff. The no characters in the decurian is why I had to bring an allied detatchment to fit in Orikan.

Yeah, every time I put deathstars together, I'm stuck with either a CAD or Royal Court to grab Orikan. RC is pretty cool if you want the extra ICs... but it gets expensive, fast. Which sucks, because he and Zahndrekh are easily tied for two of the best characters in the Codex, if not the game.

So did you run up against Wraithknights at all at WGC? I'm putting together my list and I can't really think of a hard and fast counter to WKs or other Gargantuans in our book. Try to strip off wounds with DCult and then throw Wraiths into them to try and clean up? Scythe Lychguard don't feel too good, since if it picked up the D-Sword a decent number of them will go poof before they get a chance to swing, and they're too slow to catch one that doesn't want to be caught. Do you try to chip them down from a range or get up close and personal?

Venkarel wrote:
Reece,

You could crowd source it. Make a entry on the ITC score sheet that says, What is your opponents primary army? Each player is require to furnish army lists anyway, so all they would have to do is glance at the list and fill out which detachment / formation has the highest points total. In case of a tie which one also has the warlord. For redundancy, you could ask the question on the first "X" missions (two, three, the first day).

That's actually a really good idea, simple, and takes the burden of responsibility off of the TOs.

@mulletdude

That is assuming everyone is using army-builder or similar, which a lot of folks do not (myself included). However, I suppose it really isn't that crazy to simply have players write down which detachment has the most points as we go off that system for primary detachment now, using warlord.

But then, you could still have a situation where an army is mostly 1 type of faction but has the most points in a detachment that then count as. For example, 34% of your points in Orks, but 33% in KDK and 33% in Daemons. You technically are an Ork player, but have a majority Daemon army. Players would still feel that it wasn't fair.

If you actually had to have 51%+ points in a faction that gets really wonky, really fast for 3+ detachment armies. You could have a situation where you don't even have a "primary" detachment in regards to the ITC tracking.

Whatever solution is used, it has to be very simple.

 Reecius wrote:

Venkarel wrote:
Reece,

You could crowd source it. Make a entry on the ITC score sheet that says, What is your opponents primary army? Each player is require to furnish army lists anyway, so all they would have to do is glance at the list and fill out which detachment / formation has the highest points total. In case of a tie which one also has the warlord. For redundancy, you could ask the question on the first "X" missions (two, three, the first day).

That's actually a really good idea, simple, and takes the burden of responsibility off of the TOs.

@mulletdude

That is assuming everyone is using army-builder or similar, which a lot of folks do not (myself included). However, I suppose it really isn't that crazy to simply have players write down which detachment has the most points as we go off that system for primary detachment now, using warlord.

But then, you could still have a situation where an army is mostly 1 type of faction but has the most points in a detachment that then count as. For example, 34% of your points in Orks, but 33% in KDK and 33% in Daemons. You technically are an Ork player, but have a majority Daemon army. Players would still feel that it wasn't fair.

If you actually had to have 51%+ points in a faction that gets really wonky, really fast for 3+ detachment armies. You could have a situation where you don't even have a "primary" detachment in regards to the ITC tracking.

Whatever solution is used, it has to be very simple.

I really like the crowd sourcing idea, but I think you could go even simpler than percentage of points or warlord location. Simply have players answer the question: "The most units in my opponents army belong to which faction?" Removes the more complicated math and removes most of the gamesmanship.