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 astro_nomicon wrote:
Very interesting and must have taken a good deal of skill to pilot to the top. Im guessing invisible BT most of the time going for D slaps, heldrake doing what heldrakes do, Belakor casting shrouding to give fatey a 2+ rerollable cover save. Another poster on flg was claiming that he was running the
Warboss as his warlord. Between that and the lack of the grimoire in his list this begs the question, why use Fatey at allm
all?

He boasts an impressive amount of powers, but the list only has 11 warp charges. After the near mandatory casting of invis that doesnt leave much at all for summoning or offense.

I have no idea how the orks work in this list. Im assuming they all ball up into some sort of deathstar? Would love to hear someone more experienced with orks comment on this

The weirdboy gets +1 warp charge if he has 10 orks by him
The big Mek on bike must be warlord because the formation says so he automatically gets reroll on failed saves
The warlord on bike also gets reroll saves and hits and wound cause lucky stik
The entire point of mogrok formation is garauteed d3 outflanking units with acute senses and +1 to seize
The warlord also has an extra warlord trait cause fink in cap probably strategic
You don't want to blob up these iorks
The shokk atk guns w reroll blasts are there to vorrex or high str blast
The weirdboy doesn't have a bike and is simply a demon summoning soloist
The two bikes can team up and be tough to kill don't forget turbo gives orks +1 jink
My guess he uses this formation to outflank and infiltrate the demons

Interesting, though I don't think he gets to make use of a lot of those rules.

I just looked up the formation and I'm pretty sure Mogrok can only allow Ork units to infiltrate.

There aren't 10 ork models in the whole army so Weirdboyz rule is useless.

I guess the whole point of this formation was an early game pressure unit in the form of the warboss, the two SAGs, a summoner and +1 to seize? Seems weird to me, I just can't wrap my head around the synergy. I guess you could use fateys reroll to make one SAG more reliable, but that hardly seems like a good use of Big Bird.

Breazeal wrote:

Spacecurves wrote:
Great game 5 niv-mizzet, flabbergasted is the right word for the amount of units in the battle company. I got 28 KP and I still would have been in trouble if I didn't get second turn! It was a great event, I just wish there was a 6th round so Alan and I could duke it out, we both ended undefeated.

For those asking, here is the army I used:

Decurian Detatchment
Nemesor Zahndrekh
Lychguard: 8 lychguard with warscythes
5 immortals: gauss blasters
10 Warriors: gauss flayers
10 Warriors: gauss flayers
Tomb Blades: 3 tomb blades, gauss blasters, Nebuloscopes (ignore cover)

Canoptek Harvest
Wraiths: 6 wraiths with whip coils
Spyder
Scarabs: 3 scarabs

Destroyer Cult
Destroyer Lord: staff of light, The Veil of Darkness, Resurrection Orb
Destroyers: 3 destroyers
Destroyers: 3 destroyers
Destroyers: 3 destroyers

Allied Necron Detatchment
Orikan the diviner
Immortals: 5 immortals with tesla carbines

Was there a solar staff in the list? Heard there was on flg podcast.

When the wraiths teleport do they retain re animation protocols until the beginning of the next turn? I know this was debated but don't know how it was ruled.

There can't be one in the list he posted, though it's not entirely needed with the big unit with Res Orbs in Cover.

It doesn't look like there's a FAQ ruling on it for ITC, but most people run it that they have it until the beginning of the owner's next turn. Also, I don't think he was teleporting the Wraiths as much as the Lychguard.

 astro_nomicon wrote:
Interesting, though I don't think he gets to make use of a lot of those rules.

I just looked up the formation and I'm pretty sure Mogrok can only allow Ork units to infiltrate.

There aren't 10 ork models in the whole army so Weirdboyz rule is useless.

I guess the whole point of this formation was an early game pressure unit in the form of the warboss, the two SAGs, a summoner and +1 to seize? Seems weird to me, I just can't wrap my head around the synergy. I guess you could use fateys reroll to make one SAG more reliable, but that hardly seems like a good use of Big Bird.

You are correct I thought it just said friendly unit but it specifically says friendly ork units making outflanking demons not possible.
However the finkin cap can still roll for infiltrate but it's not reliable on a single roll. Not like everything in strategic isn't rear anyway.
And I agree I can't see the synergy either and I play this formation a lot lol.
Also fatey reroll are useless on sags too since they each have 3 ammo runts granting a reroll already.

gungo wrote:

 astro_nomicon wrote:
Interesting, though I don't think he gets to make use of a lot of those rules.

I just looked up the formation and I'm pretty sure Mogrok can only allow Ork units to infiltrate.

There aren't 10 ork models in the whole army so Weirdboyz rule is useless.

I guess the whole point of this formation was an early game pressure unit in the form of the warboss, the two SAGs, a summoner and +1 to seize? Seems weird to me, I just can't wrap my head around the synergy. I guess you could use fateys reroll to make one SAG more reliable, but that hardly seems like a good use of Big Bird.

You are correct I thought it just said friendly unit but it specifically says friendly ork units making outflanking demons not possible.
And I agree I can't see the synergy either and I play this formation a lot lol.
Also fatey reroll are useless on sags too since they each have 3 ammo runts granting a reroll already.

The synergy is he gets to add another ITC event win with an Ork Primary Army, even though it was essentially a Daemon/CSM army.

What winter said. I did the same thing with the marine battle company and my 220 point blood angel CAD that had my warlord just so I was "technically" Blood Angels. It's kind of a cop-out, as it can lead to "best dark eldar" titles going to eldar players and "best orks" going to daemons etc.
I'm hoping they switch to "faction with most points = primary" after this year.

Well thats kind of silly.

That is a common complaint with the ITC format, and yes, gamer's game the system, to no one's surprise. However, keeping track of how many points each player has in each detachment gets extremely burdensome, extremely quickly. However, if we can come up with a good system for tracking it all, we can make the change.

 Reecius wrote:
That is a common complaint with the ITC format, and yes, gamer's game the system, to no one's surprise. However, keeping track of how many points each player has in each detachment gets extremely burdensome, extremely quickly. However, if we can come up with a good system for tracking it all, we can make the change.

Yeah it is pretty tough to do well, or deal with the corner cases. Not sure there's a great answer even if you do go point % based. Also in a wierd way it does promote list diversity and exploration, even if the end result chaffs the 'true' faction player.

It may be the best way is something a bit more categorical instead of pure faction based. Something like what Adepticon does but a bit more granular. Dunno what that would look like though.

Reece,

You could crowd source it. Make a entry on the ITC score sheet that says, What is your opponents primary army? Each player is require to furnish army lists anyway, so all they would have to do is glance at the list and fill out which detachment / formation has the highest points total. In case of a tie which one also has the warlord. For redundancy, you could ask the question on the first "X" missions (two, three, the first day).

It's quite easy to just ask the participant 'which faction contains the most points in your army' and enter that. All the major list builders have print points next to detachments, so at worst it's a quick glance of a list.

What was the turn out?

 Reecius wrote:
That is a common complaint with the ITC format, and yes, gamer's game the system, to no one's surprise. However, keeping track of how many points each player has in each detachment gets extremely burdensome, extremely quickly. However, if we can come up with a good system for tracking it all, we can make the change.

I agree that you may have to have the TOs reporting the scores do the work. More work for me but I wouldn't mind.

Requizen wrote:

There can't be one in the list he posted, though it's not entirely needed with the big unit with Res Orbs in Cover.

It doesn't look like there's a FAQ ruling on it for ITC, but most people run it that they have it until the beginning of the owner's next turn. Also, I don't think he was teleporting the Wraiths as much as the Lychguard.

Yeah if I could fit a solar staff in there too....ermagawd it would be broken. Honestly I think Necrons are the best codex right now because of the decurian.

Eldar are best at doing damage, but Necrons are best at actually winning games because of their insane durability. The only armies that are bad matchups are psychic deathstars, but those are falling out of favor because of Eldar's ability to deny so well, and culexus assassins in drop pods being so common. This means there is very little you have to worry about.

The only thing keeping it somewhat in check is it is tricky to fit in the characters you want. That's one of the main reasons why I took a destroyer cult actually, it gets you a D-Lord who can buy either the Veil or the Staff. The no characters in the decurian is why I had to bring an allied detatchment to fit in Orikan.

Spacecurves wrote:

Requizen wrote:

There can't be one in the list he posted, though it's not entirely needed with the big unit with Res Orbs in Cover.

It doesn't look like there's a FAQ ruling on it for ITC, but most people run it that they have it until the beginning of the owner's next turn. Also, I don't think he was teleporting the Wraiths as much as the Lychguard.

Yeah if I could fit a solar staff in there too....ermagawd it would be broken. Honestly I think Necrons are the best codex right now because of the decurian.

Eldar are best at doing damage, but Necrons are best at actually winning games because of their insane durability. The only armies that are bad matchups are psychic deathstars, but those are falling out of favor because of Eldar's ability to deny so well, and culexus assassins in drop pods being so common. This means there is very little you have to worry about.

The only thing keeping it somewhat in check is it is tricky to fit in the characters you want. That's one of the main reasons why I took a destroyer cult actually, it gets you a D-Lord who can buy either the Veil or the Staff. The no characters in the decurian is why I had to bring an allied detatchment to fit in Orikan.

Yeah, every time I put deathstars together, I'm stuck with either a CAD or Royal Court to grab Orikan. RC is pretty cool if you want the extra ICs... but it gets expensive, fast. Which sucks, because he and Zahndrekh are easily tied for two of the best characters in the Codex, if not the game.

So did you run up against Wraithknights at all at WGC? I'm putting together my list and I can't really think of a hard and fast counter to WKs or other Gargantuans in our book. Try to strip off wounds with DCult and then throw Wraiths into them to try and clean up? Scythe Lychguard don't feel too good, since if it picked up the D-Sword a decent number of them will go poof before they get a chance to swing, and they're too slow to catch one that doesn't want to be caught. Do you try to chip them down from a range or get up close and personal?

Venkarel wrote:
Reece,

You could crowd source it. Make a entry on the ITC score sheet that says, What is your opponents primary army? Each player is require to furnish army lists anyway, so all they would have to do is glance at the list and fill out which detachment / formation has the highest points total. In case of a tie which one also has the warlord. For redundancy, you could ask the question on the first "X" missions (two, three, the first day).

That's actually a really good idea, simple, and takes the burden of responsibility off of the TOs.

@mulletdude

That is assuming everyone is using army-builder or similar, which a lot of folks do not (myself included). However, I suppose it really isn't that crazy to simply have players write down which detachment has the most points as we go off that system for primary detachment now, using warlord.

But then, you could still have a situation where an army is mostly 1 type of faction but has the most points in a detachment that then count as. For example, 34% of your points in Orks, but 33% in KDK and 33% in Daemons. You technically are an Ork player, but have a majority Daemon army. Players would still feel that it wasn't fair.

If you actually had to have 51%+ points in a faction that gets really wonky, really fast for 3+ detachment armies. You could have a situation where you don't even have a "primary" detachment in regards to the ITC tracking.

Whatever solution is used, it has to be very simple.

 Reecius wrote:

Venkarel wrote:
Reece,

You could crowd source it. Make a entry on the ITC score sheet that says, What is your opponents primary army? Each player is require to furnish army lists anyway, so all they would have to do is glance at the list and fill out which detachment / formation has the highest points total. In case of a tie which one also has the warlord. For redundancy, you could ask the question on the first "X" missions (two, three, the first day).

That's actually a really good idea, simple, and takes the burden of responsibility off of the TOs.

@mulletdude

That is assuming everyone is using army-builder or similar, which a lot of folks do not (myself included). However, I suppose it really isn't that crazy to simply have players write down which detachment has the most points as we go off that system for primary detachment now, using warlord.

But then, you could still have a situation where an army is mostly 1 type of faction but has the most points in a detachment that then count as. For example, 34% of your points in Orks, but 33% in KDK and 33% in Daemons. You technically are an Ork player, but have a majority Daemon army. Players would still feel that it wasn't fair.

If you actually had to have 51%+ points in a faction that gets really wonky, really fast for 3+ detachment armies. You could have a situation where you don't even have a "primary" detachment in regards to the ITC tracking.

Whatever solution is used, it has to be very simple.

I really like the crowd sourcing idea, but I think you could go even simpler than percentage of points or warlord location. Simply have players answer the question: "The most units in my opponents army belong to which faction?" Removes the more complicated math and removes most of the gamesmanship.