Now that everything's out, how do you guys think this army will fare against the current competitive armies?

Which book: Cult or Skitarii?

I'm thinking mainly them combined. Also, potentially the WD formation that combines them with the imperial knight.

Where do I find the information about that formation?

White dwarf 69

From what I have seen the War Convocation appears to be at least upper mid tier using only it. With drop pods its tier 1 for sure and it counters general eldar pretty hard, basically an auto win if the Ad Mech go first since. Having an entire army with a near 2+ cover save(maybe 1-2 units will be 3+) for your first turn with all of the infantry having FnP, many with multiwounds, is incredibly durable even at T3. I think the literal 600 extra points makes the army incredibly good on already excellent units, but its really the canticles that put it over the top as they are essentially unstoppable psychic powers that auto-pass with no deny, affect the entire army vs a single unit, and are just extra free points since its a formation bonus specific to the War Convocation non-Ad Mech units. The downside to the canticles is they get "worse" the less units you have (8+ for the best), but its not really much worse for the next tier (4-7 units). For some canticles, like the twin-link one, its almost entirely irrelevant to your army as it reverts to re-rolling 1 and 2's....on an army that is almost entire BS4+, so essentially twin-linking the army still.

Strong without the formation. Over the top ridic right alongside eldar with the formation. Even stronger after abusing allies for some taxi pods.

niv-mizzet wrote:
Strong without the formation. Over the top ridic right alongside eldar with the formation. Even stronger after abusing allies for some taxi pods.

You think the WD formation puts them along side elder in power?

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:
Strong without the formation. Over the top ridic right alongside eldar with the formation. Even stronger after abusing allies for some taxi pods.

You think the WD formation puts them along side elder in power?

The one where you get to have an army 500+ points bigger than your opponent? Absolutely. FLG used it in a batrep against a hard tourney eldar list, and outright tabled them, even while making dumb tactical mistakes like dogpiling 3 units together right before the wwp d-scythe squad dropped in.

By themselves, they are a formidable opponent. With drop pods, they are probably the most powerful take-all-comers army, at least until some creative types dream of good counter strategies.

In our games, AdMech + pod has a very high win ratio against untailored TAC Necron and Eldar armies, and like, an almost perfect win ratio against IG, Tyranid, Orks.

However, we don't play a ton, so a lot of it is just that we haven't adjusted strategy and tactics (nevermind units) to fight them yet. These guys are definitely meta-disrupting.

niv-mizzet wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:
Strong without the formation. Over the top ridic right alongside eldar with the formation. Even stronger after abusing allies for some taxi pods.

You think the WD formation puts them along side elder in power?

The one where you get to have an army 500+ points bigger than your opponent? Absolutely. FLG used it in a batrep against a hard tourney eldar list, and outright tabled them, even while making dumb tactical mistakes like dogpiling 3 units together right before the wwp d-scythe squad dropped in.

Where is the batrep? I'd love to have a look at it.

I for one am happy to hear this. If an army has to be super powerful, and on top, if it's not eldar, it's ok in my books. I'd face it any day, unlike how I'd walk away from eldar players.

SilverSaint wrote:
From what I have seen the War Convocation appears to be at least upper mid tier using only it. With drop pods its tier 1 for sure and it counters general eldar pretty hard, basically an auto win if the Ad Mech go first since. Having an entire army with a near 2+ cover save(maybe 1-2 units will be 3+) for your first turn with all of the infantry having FnP, many with multiwounds, is incredibly durable even at T3.

Vanguard and Rangers are FNP of 6+ while Infiltrators and Ruststalkers are the 'standard' 5+.
That T3 hurts on those units. It really does.

And while yeah, Sicarian stuff has 2 Wounds each--it's T3 with a 4+/6++ and a FNP 5+. Things cancel out that 4+ very easily, and the FNP of 5+ or a 6++ are not very reliable.

I think the literal 600 extra points

Which is mostly going to be Relics or Plasma Calivers for the Rangers/Vanguard--as most of the units have major upgrade options(such as Ruststalkers going from Chordclaws/Transonic Razors to 2x Transonic Blades is a free upgrade) for free since they radically shift the unit's actual setup.

makes the army incredibly good on already excellent units, but its really the canticles that put it over the top as they are essentially unstoppable psychic powers that auto-pass with no deny, affect the entire army vs a single unit, and are just extra free points since its a formation bonus specific to the War Convocation non-Ad Mech units.

Skitarii have no access to Canticles outside of this formation as well. "Ad Mech" is the name of the overall faction; Cult Mechanicus is the specific name.
You would have a much better point if Doctrina Imperatives spread to the whole army as well, but they don't.

More on that in a moment!

The downside to the canticles is they get "worse" the less units you have (8+ for the best), but its not really much worse for the next tier (4-7 units). For some canticles, like the twin-link one, its almost entirely irrelevant to your army as it reverts to re-rolling 1 and 2's....on an army that is almost entire BS4+, so essentially twin-linking the army still.

BS4 on Skitarii, BS3 on Kataphron Battle Servitors and Kastelan Robots.
So, you have BS4 Skitarii(Onagers, Rangers, Vanguards, Ballistarii/Dragoons with Phosphor Serpenta and/or Radium Jezzails, and Sicarian Infiltrators) that can be boosted up to 7/6/5 for a single turn of Shooting(Imperatives stay in effect during the enemy's turn--which doesn't exactly do much for your Shooting since you don't Overwatch at your standard BS) and WS 7/6/5, once per game via Doctrina Imperatives.

Canticles are much less "here and now", instead allowing rerolls of CC or Shooting attacks with rolls of 1/2/anything that didn't hit or allowing buffs like Shrouded+Stealth or Fearless/Stubborn or attacks done to models in B2B. These can be done TWICE per game because of the Detachment special rule allowing for it.

Also the other "downside" to Canticles is you do not start the game with them on. You activate them during "the start of YOUR turn". So if you don't Seize and the Eldar player has the first turn--whatever you have to start with is whatever you have to start with.

Is the formation powerful? Sure. Does it give you free upgrades to your units? Sure! But it doesn't give you more models or recycling ability for the models.
Is it as powerful as an Eldar force built using their Warhost FOC? Potentially.

Personally, I wish the Oathsworn Knight Detachment was optional. I have everything to field the Convocation without the Knight, and would like the option to do so.

You can use each canticle once per game in this formation.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
You can use each canticle once per game in this formation.

Where did you see that? Because the Cult Mechanicus Battle Congregation says different.

Cult Mechanicus Battle Congregation Detachment wrote:
Command Benefits
Tech-Adept: If this Detachment is your Primary Detachment, you can re-roll the result when rolling on the Warlord Traits table in Codex: Cult Mechanicus.
Divine Chorus: If your army includes one or more Detachments with this special rule, you can, once per game, choose to re-use a Canticle of the Omnissiah(pg 73) that your army has already used earlier in the game.

The detachment in the book, let's you reroll. Does this count if you're using the WD formation?

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
The detachment in the book, let's you reroll. Does this count if you're using the WD formation?

Divine Chorus: If your army includes one or more Detachments with this special rule, you can, once per game, choose to re-use a Canticle of the Omnissiah(pg 73) that your army has already used earlier in the game.

Does the WD formation include a Cult Mechanicus Battle Congregation Detachment?
Yes.

So yeah, you do get to use each twice.

Its only fluffy that the army which holds the IoMs greatest technological secrets be so very capable of tabling the eldar.

Well I'm going to be the first to say...

Its OVER 9000

Unfortunately in my local store, I haven't had the privilege of playing against Skitarii, but someone IS making an army of them. The same cant be said for the cult mechanicus. Everyone has agreed that an army of baymax, that guy from mortal kombat and tanklings is frankly stupid.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
The detachment in the book, let's you reroll. Does this count if you're using the WD formation?

Divine Chorus: If your army includes one or more Detachments with this special rule, you can, once per game, choose to re-use a Canticle of the Omnissiah(pg 73) that your army has already used earlier in the game.

Does the WD formation include a Cult Mechanicus Battle Congregation Detachment?
Yes.

So yeah, you do get to use each twice.

No, you get to use ONE an extra time. 'Re-use A Canticle that was used earlier'.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
The detachment in the book, let's you reroll. Does this count if you're using the WD formation?

Divine Chorus: If your army includes one or more Detachments with this special rule, you can, once per game, choose to re-use a Canticle of the Omnissiah(pg 73) that your army has already used earlier in the game.

Does the WD formation include a Cult Mechanicus Battle Congregation Detachment?
Yes.

So yeah, you do get to use each twice.

No, you get to use ONE an extra time. 'Re-use A Canticle that was used earlier'.

Either way, it's not "one per game" now is it?

But it's also not 'use each twice'.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 SharkoutofWata wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
The detachment in the book, let's you reroll. Does this count if you're using the WD formation?

Divine Chorus: If your army includes one or more Detachments with this special rule, you can, once per game, choose to re-use a Canticle of the Omnissiah(pg 73) that your army has already used earlier in the game.

Does the WD formation include a Cult Mechanicus Battle Congregation Detachment?
Yes.

So yeah, you do get to use each twice.

No, you get to use ONE an extra time. 'Re-use A Canticle that was used earlier'.

Either way, it's not "one per game" now is it?

The wording, RAW, is that you can, once a game, choose the option to re-use a Canticle. I don't see how that's not clear.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
But it's also not 'use each twice'.

Did I dispute that in my reply to you?

No?

So fine. You're right, I'm wrong. However seeing the wording--you could actually make an argument for being able to use each twice.

 Enigwolf wrote:

The wording, RAW, is that you can, once a game, choose the option to re-use a Canticle. I don't see how that's not clear.

If you REALLY wanted to get into RAW--you could make the argument that since it does not say:
"You can, once per game, choose to re-use a single Canticle of the Omnissiah", you could use each twice.

You're the one that said 'use each twice', which is incorrect. It's not an 'either way' thing. There is a single correct answer. If you're getting defensive about it, there's no need.

And there is no argument about RAW. Once per game you can reuse a Canticle. Try to do that again and it's no longer 'once per game'. That would be reusing a Canticle twice per game.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Enigwolf wrote:

The wording, RAW, is that you can, once a game, choose the option to re-use a Canticle. I don't see how that's not clear.

If you REALLY wanted to get into RAW--you could make the argument that since it does not say:
"You can, once per game, choose to re-use a single Canticle of the Omnissiah", you could use each twice.

I don't need to, because of this little one letter:

"You can, once per game, choose to re-use a Canticle of the Omnissiah"

"a" is, by default, referencing the singular.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
You're the one that said 'use each twice', which is incorrect. It's not an 'either way' thing. There is a single correct answer. If you're getting defensive about it, there's no need.

I'm not the one getting defensive about it. I was more than happy to admit I was wrong--except now that I read it in closer detail, I'm starting to think you are in the wrong here not me.

And there is no argument about RAW. Once per game you can reuse a Canticle. Try to do that again and it's no longer 'once per game'. That would be reusing a Canticle twice per game.

Cult Mechanicus p72 wrote:
Canticles of the Omnissiah
At the start of each of your turns, you can choose one Canticle of the Omnissiah from the list opposite. The effects of each Canticle last until the start of your next turn. Unless otherwise stated, each Canticle can only be used once during the game.

So with that wording, it establishes that each Canticle can be used once during the game, right? The key word there being "each".

Cult Mechanicus p56 wrote:
Command Benefits:
Divine Chorus: If your army includes one or more Detachments with this special rule, you can, once per game, choose to re-use a Canticle of the Omnissiah(pg 73) that your army has already used earlier in the game.

So while yes, it certainly does say "once per game", it does NOT say that it is restricted to a single Canticle of the Omnissiah.

For the record? The Skitarii book has the exact same wording for Doctrina Imperatives, and I have yet to see anyone dispute Skitarii popping Doctrina Imperatives twice in a game when fielding the War Cohort formation.

 Kanluwen wrote:

For the record? The Skitarii book has the exact same wording for Doctrina Imperatives, and I have yet to see anyone dispute Skitarii popping Doctrina Imperatives twice in a game when fielding the War Cohort formation.

Probably because I don't think any notable games have been played with, or enough people have played with, a War Cohort yet. Mind, it's 3 Battle Maniples.

How are you making the connection that it can be used again and again for each power that you have previously used? I'm not following that train of thought. There's no wording there that indicates plural. Everything is singular. And like I said, if you try to reuse a different Canticle, that isn't using this Special Rule once per game. That would be using it twice.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
How are you making the connection that it can be used again and again for each power that you have previously used? I'm not following that train of thought. There's no wording there that indicates plural. Everything is singular. And like I said, if you try to reuse a different Canticle, that isn't using this Special Rule once per game. That would be using it twice.

You use each Canticle once per game, correct?

Since it does not state 'a single Canticle of the Omnissiah', it's very easy to make the connection that the "once per game" simply is not allowing you to reuse each Canticle more than once.

Basic sentence structure has the 'once per game' modifying the full rule, limiting how many times the entire power is used. If the 'once per game' was at the end of the sentence that would be feasible, albeit not very sensible but I could see the argument for it. With the way the sentence is now, there is no question about what it does.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
How are you making the connection that it can be used again and again for each power that you have previously used? I'm not following that train of thought. There's no wording there that indicates plural. Everything is singular. And like I said, if you try to reuse a different Canticle, that isn't using this Special Rule once per game. That would be using it twice.

You use each Canticle once per game, correct?

Since it does not state 'a single Canticle of the Omnissiah', it's very easy to make the connection that the "once per game" simply is not allowing you to reuse each Canticle more than once.

No it isn't. How are you not registering the difference between "once per game" and "at the start of each turn."
How can you possibly read "once per game" as anything other than once per game?

The RAW is often not entirely clear, but this isn't one of those times. You're trying really hard to make it obtuse, but it actually isn't. It's absolutely crystal clear if you just read the sentence the way it is written.

 Purifier wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
How are you making the connection that it can be used again and again for each power that you have previously used? I'm not following that train of thought. There's no wording there that indicates plural. Everything is singular. And like I said, if you try to reuse a different Canticle, that isn't using this Special Rule once per game. That would be using it twice.

You use each Canticle once per game, correct?

Since it does not state 'a single Canticle of the Omnissiah', it's very easy to make the connection that the "once per game" simply is not allowing you to reuse each Canticle more than once.

No it isn't. How are you not registering the difference between "once per game" and "at the start of each turn."

How are you thinking that is the issue here?

Seeing as how it specifically states every other location in the book where you get "a single" of something, I feel like it is not as cut and dry as you're acting. You're looking at the "once per game" part and assuming that it is specific to the ability to reuse a Canticle without looking at the rest of the sentence. Why did they bother to add in the part about you having used it earlier in the game?

How can you possibly read "once per game" as anything other than once per game?

You use each Canticle "once per game". Does that mean you can only use Canticles in general once per game, or a single Canticle once per game?

The RAW is often not entirely clear, but this isn't one of those times. You're trying really hard to make it obtuse, but it actually isn't. It's absolutely crystal clear if you just read the sentence the way it is written.

And yet, it's the only place in the book where "a single" is not used as a qualifier.

S please, pardon me if you dislike my reading--but that is very much how it comes across to me at this point.

Also, wrong section of the forum for YMDC arguments?

Why did they bother to add in the part about you having used it earlier in the game?

Because why would you use this rule to throw out a canticle you haven't already used? You can do that without this rule.
You already have a rule saying you can use all canticles once each. This one is for making one of those canticles able to be used twice.
Why would you EVER use it on a canticle you haven't already used? It makes no sense!

 Kanluwen wrote:
S please, pardon me if you dislike my reading--but that is very much how it comes across to me at this point.

once per game you can use a canticle that you have already used.

It' is stating that it is a single. The word "single" isn't needed, since it's already defined as a canticle. And this rule can be used only once per game. You cannot in any way shape or form use "a" of something "once per game" and use more than one. It is directly contradictory. Your explanations make no sense. You're citing things that are refuting your claims. But whatever. I don't have to play against you, thank God.

 Purifier wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
S please, pardon me if you dislike my reading--but that is very much how it comes across to me at this point.

once per game you can use a canticle that you have already used.

It' is stating that it is a single. The word "single" isn't needed, since it's already defined as a canticle. And this rule can be used only once per game. You cannot in any way shape or form use "a" of something "once per game" and use more than one. It is directly contradictory. Your explanations make no sense. You're citing things that are refuting your claims. But whatever. I don't have to play against you, thank God.

Apologies if you think I'm being some kind of rules lawyering dick; but that's the way it reads to me. I don't hang around in YMDC or usually argue rules--but in this case I'm digging my heels in.

You can play it how you want; but seeing as how everywhere else in the book when referring to a singular it actually says "a single"--the fact that this is the ONE PLACE where it does not specifically call out "a single" supports my argument.

Feel free to make a thread in YMDC though and we can continue this.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Feel free to make a thread in YMDC though and we can continue this.

I'd rather just slam my head against a real brick wall, thank you very much.

Can we get back on track regarding peoples' thoughts on the power level of the new admech books and the white dwarf formation?

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Can we get back on track regarding peoples' thoughts on the power level of the new admech books and the white dwarf formation?

They is powerful. They is awesome. They beat eldar. Which is even awesome-er.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
I for one am happy to hear this. If an army has to be super powerful, and on top, if it's not eldar, it's ok in my books. I'd face it any day, unlike how I'd walk away from eldar players.

Somebody's bitter!

I for one intend to avoid the Skitarii taxi service unless I'm playing in a tournament. I'll gladly play against the free upgrades and relics formation...if I get 500 extra points. And I can bring a Wraithknight. Sounds like the setup for the ages!

 TheNewBlood wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
I for one am happy to hear this. If an army has to be super powerful, and on top, if it's not eldar, it's ok in my books. I'd face it any day, unlike how I'd walk away from eldar players.

Somebody's bitter!

I for one intend to avoid the Skitarii taxi service unless I'm playing in a tournament. I'll gladly play against the free upgrades and relics formation...if I get 500 extra points. And I can bring a Wraithknight. Sounds like the setup for the ages!

Why would you request more points? It's not like the skitarii players get more points than you do...

All hail our new admech overlords, which, being new, is a lot more fun to face down than eldar, that just have a bunch of already-existing models that picked up a Mario super mushroom.

Also the super formation inherently stops the army from spamming something boring, instead forcing the admech player to have a lot of unique units including a mix of vehicles and infantry. I love facing lists with lots of moving parts rather than say...6th's "wave serpents A thru G" style lists.

 TheNewBlood wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
I for one am happy to hear this. If an army has to be super powerful, and on top, if it's not eldar, it's ok in my books. I'd face it any day, unlike how I'd walk away from eldar players.

Somebody's bitter!

I for one intend to avoid the Skitarii taxi service unless I'm playing in a tournament. I'll gladly play against the free upgrades and relics formation...if I get 500 extra points. And I can bring a Wraithknight. Sounds like the setup for the ages!

Not bitter. I don't face eldar. We don't have "them" in our group, nor allow it. And I would never conform to that. I don't make eldar players let me have 1000 pt extra to make up for d cannon bs. That's pretty scrappy of you to want. And shows the fear they put in you. I'm just happy eldar have been knocked off the pedistal of top dog.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 TheNewBlood wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
I for one am happy to hear this. If an army has to be super powerful, and on top, if it's not eldar, it's ok in my books. I'd face it any day, unlike how I'd walk away from eldar players.

Somebody's bitter!

I for one intend to avoid the Skitarii taxi service unless I'm playing in a tournament. I'll gladly play against the free upgrades and relics formation...if I get 500 extra points. And I can bring a Wraithknight. Sounds like the setup for the ages!

Why would you request more points? It's not like the skitarii players get more points than you do...

Simple: the Skitarii/Admech/Knight WD formation lets you get unit upgrades and relics for free. I don't have a problem with this in principle, so long as the other player has an equvalent points amout compensated to them for the cost the upgrades and relics would create.

 TheNewBlood wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 TheNewBlood wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
I for one am happy to hear this. If an army has to be super powerful, and on top, if it's not eldar, it's ok in my books. I'd face it any day, unlike how I'd walk away from eldar players.

Somebody's bitter!

I for one intend to avoid the Skitarii taxi service unless I'm playing in a tournament. I'll gladly play against the free upgrades and relics formation...if I get 500 extra points. And I can bring a Wraithknight. Sounds like the setup for the ages!

Why would you request more points? It's not like the skitarii players get more points than you do...

Simple: the Skitarii/Admech/Knight WD formation lets you get unit upgrades and relics for free. I don't have a problem with this in principle, so long as the other player has an equvalent points amout compensated to them for the cost the upgrades and relics would create.

Playing eldar, you don't deserve them. I'd never play a player tha requested that. It's not a rule. Sounds like eldar players are bitter, not being top dog.

 TheNewBlood wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 TheNewBlood wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
I for one am happy to hear this. If an army has to be super powerful, and on top, if it's not eldar, it's ok in my books. I'd face it any day, unlike how I'd walk away from eldar players.

Somebody's bitter!

I for one intend to avoid the Skitarii taxi service unless I'm playing in a tournament. I'll gladly play against the free upgrades and relics formation...if I get 500 extra points. And I can bring a Wraithknight. Sounds like the setup for the ages!

Why would you request more points? It's not like the skitarii players get more points than you do...

Simple: the Skitarii/Admech/Knight WD formation lets you get unit upgrades and relics for free. I don't have a problem with this in principle, so long as the other player has an equvalent points amount compensated to them for the cost the upgrades and relics would create.

Most of the Relics and Wargear/Special Issue items for Skitarii and Cult Mechanicus aren't exactly game-breaking--even at the cost of "Free".

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 TheNewBlood wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 TheNewBlood wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
I for one am happy to hear this. If an army has to be super powerful, and on top, if it's not eldar, it's ok in my books. I'd face it any day, unlike how I'd walk away from eldar players.

Somebody's bitter!

I for one intend to avoid the Skitarii taxi service unless I'm playing in a tournament. I'll gladly play against the free upgrades and relics formation...if I get 500 extra points. And I can bring a Wraithknight. Sounds like the setup for the ages!

Why would you request more points? It's not like the skitarii players get more points than you do...

Simple: the Skitarii/Admech/Knight WD formation lets you get unit upgrades and relics for free. I don't have a problem with this in principle, so long as the other player has an equvalent points amout compensated to them for the cost the upgrades and relics would create.

Playing eldar, you don't deserve them. I'd never play a player tha requested that. It's not a rule. Sounds like eldar players are bitter, not being top dog.

To be fair, eldar don't have that much experience with NOT being the top army.

Especially for anyone who started them in the past 2+ years!

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 TheNewBlood wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
I for one am happy to hear this. If an army has to be super powerful, and on top, if it's not eldar, it's ok in my books. I'd face it any day, unlike how I'd walk away from eldar players.

Somebody's bitter!

I for one intend to avoid the Skitarii taxi service unless I'm playing in a tournament. I'll gladly play against the free upgrades and relics formation...if I get 500 extra points. And I can bring a Wraithknight. Sounds like the setup for the ages!

Not bitter. I don't face eldar. We don't have "them" in our group, nor allow it. And I would never conform to that. I don't make eldar players let me have 1000 pt extra to make up for d cannon bs. That's pretty scrappy of you to want. And shows the fear they put in you. I'm just happy eldar have been knocked off the pedistal of top dog.

Ooooh, so edgy! Careful there, you should be careful with sharp objects! You might just get hurt.

Seriously, banning an entire faction is taking things a little too far, don't you think? What's next, you'll ban Necrons? Tau? Skitarii/Admech?

I'm not afraid of any faction, so long as the armies are on a similar level of power and on an even playing field. As I explained earlier, I would want to be given compensation for the free relics and unit upgrades that specific formation provides. For example, they get 1500 points, I get 1850. They get 1850, I get 2000. It's the same standard I would apply to the Daemon factory list. Outside of that formation and the Skitarii taxi service, I don't have any problems with Skitarii/Admech.

I'm actually glad that GW has decided to release a new faction to the game. But I wouldn't be hopeful about any other armies being at the same power level, if the rumors are anything to go by.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Most of the Relics and Wargear/Special Issue items for Skitarii and Cult Mechanicus aren't exactly game-breaking--even at the cost of "Free".

Yes, yes I know, but it's the principle of the thing, darn it!

 TheNewBlood wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 TheNewBlood wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
I for one am happy to hear this. If an army has to be super powerful, and on top, if it's not eldar, it's ok in my books. I'd face it any day, unlike how I'd walk away from eldar players.

Somebody's bitter!

I for one intend to avoid the Skitarii taxi service unless I'm playing in a tournament. I'll gladly play against the free upgrades and relics formation...if I get 500 extra points. And I can bring a Wraithknight. Sounds like the setup for the ages!

Why would you request more points? It's not like the skitarii players get more points than you do...

Simple: the Skitarii/Admech/Knight WD formation lets you get unit upgrades and relics for free. I don't have a problem with this in principle, so long as the other player has an equvalent points amout compensated to them for the cost the upgrades and relics would create.

This is not logical.

The AdMech player enters a 1850 point game using the War Convocation formation. They have a 1850 point army, via using the formatin special rule that allows a uniue method of wargear selection.
The (Insert Your Faction Here) player enters a 1850 point game against the AdMech player. They have an 1850 point army also, to fit the constraints of the points limit set by the game.

Taking 500 extra points, in absence of an official rule that allows this, is breaking the rules by going over the points limit, as you are taking a 2350 point list to an 1850 point game.

 Verviedi wrote:
This is not logical.

The AdMech player enters a 1850 point game using the War Convocation formation. They have a 1850 point army, via using the formatin special rule that allows a uniue method of wargear selection.
The (Insert Your Faction Here) player enters a 1850 point game against the AdMech player. They have an 1850 point army also, to fit the constraints of the points limit set by the game.

Taking 500 extra points, in absence of an official rule that allows this, is breaking the rules by going over the points limit, as you are taking a 2350 point list to an 1850 point game.

You, sir, have made an even greater logical error: taking my post seriously!

Like I said, I don't have a problem with Skitarii or Admech. The new WD formation is fine as far as balance goes. I just might err on the side of bringing a Wraithknight (within the agree upon points limit of course) when facing down that formation, as I don't consider it particularly "friendly". But that's just my opinion. YMMV.

There's no reason to ask for more points based on 'free upgrades'. I wouldn't ask for 250pts if someone used the Blood Angel Vanguard Formation and I wouldn't do that here. I'd be surprised if I didn't laugh in their face if someone was asking for something like that.

Banning an entire faction is also ridiculous. People too scared to play a game? That's just sad.. Certainly wouldn't be a place I spend my time even though I still haven't gotten a game with the new Eldar in. Been having way too much fun with CSM...

But, both of these viewpoints will say loads about the AdMech. It will soon become endless hate when a player DARES to play AdMech, never mind that they might have been waiting for it to become a faction (or two...) since they got into 40k in general. And because you have dared to play a powerful army, you must gimp yourself ALWAYS. It is ABSOLUTELY the fault of the player that the troops choices can have kinda-D weapons.

Why can't we buck up and just play the game? Use tactics and strategy against these powerful armies and if it doesn't work, take the loss like an adult. And/or don't play for money. Losing a game isn't the worst thing in the world. And it's not like these two armies have been out long enough to get genuinely frustrated at losing against them.

having played the formation a few times now, I would have to say what makes that formation really good is not the free upgrades. Those dont have the biggest impact on the game and only gain you marginal utility. In general, this gives your onagers IWND and either the icarus or neutron gun; you get triple plasma on your vanguard and triple arquebus on your rangers; your sgts get a 4++ invuln; and your unit of kataphrons get BS 2 for snapshooting (considering your dominus is with them); and you pass out +1 leadership when relevant.

Thats the relevant stuff. Yeah you can take an arc maul and arc pistol on your vanguard alpha along with the pater radium... but this will matter how often? Thats the majority of the free points, they just dont matter.


The REAL power of that formation is having your knight and skitarii be affected and count towards canticles. Thats the real strength of the formation: Popping the +3 BS while giving your entire army stealth/shrouded for two turns in a row is pretty damn good.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
There's no reason to ask for more points based on 'free upgrades'. I wouldn't ask for 250pts if someone used the Blood Angel Vanguard Formation and I wouldn't do that here. I'd be surprised if I didn't laugh in their face if someone was asking for something like that.

Banning an entire faction is also ridiculous. People too scared to play a game? That's just sad.. Certainly wouldn't be a place I spend my time even though I still haven't gotten a game with the new Eldar in. Been having way too much fun with CSM...

But, both of these viewpoints will say loads about the AdMech. It will soon become endless hate when a player DARES to play AdMech, never mind that they might have been waiting for it to become a faction (or two...) since they got into 40k in general. And because you have dared to play a powerful army, you must gimp yourself ALWAYS. It is ABSOLUTELY the fault of the player that the troops choices can have kinda-D weapons.

Why can't we buck up and just play the game? Use tactics and strategy against these powerful armies and if it doesn't work, take the loss like an adult. And/or don't play for money. Losing a game isn't the worst thing in the world. And it's not like these two armies have been out long enough to get genuinely frustrated at losing against them.

I did admit that my "extra points allowance" was a non-serious comment taken a bit too far. Still, your point holds. There's no reason why one player should have extra points over the other simply because of one player's army setup.

I think that the internet's collective attention has finally shifted to Skitarii/Admech. First it was Necrons, then Eldar, and now that the new formation has caught everyone's attention, Skitarii/Admech.

Every army has less-than-friendly or even overpowered builds. Eldar D-weapons, Scatbikers, and the Wraithknight; Necron Canoptek Harvest, Centstar, Pentatyrant, the list goes on. Outside of abusing the allies matrix for drop pod shenanigans, I don't think Skitarii/Admech/Imperial Knights are overpowered. You could make the argument, however, that some units/army builds are not suited for friendly/casual play, just like with any army.

Again, like you said, people simply haven't played against the new armies enough to develop effective tactics and strategies to counter them.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
It will soon become endless hate when a player DARES to play AdMech, never mind that they might have been waiting for it to become a faction (or two...) since they got into 40k in general. And because you have dared to play a powerful army, you must gimp yourself ALWAYS. It is ABSOLUTELY the fault of the player that the troops choices can have kinda-D weapons.

I really hope that won't be the case as I fall into that category of having waited for Admech to be a playable faction for... over a decade? *counts on his fingers and toes* Yeah over a decade. I dont want to feel ashamed *Not that I will* for my love of cyberized religious nutters who have to bust out their hymn book whenever they want to microwave a space burrito.

Are Admech as a "Faction" strong? Yeah but they have their weaknesses. Is the formation strong? Ehhh yeah, but its not autowin, I'd say. That people are not focusing on what actually makes it strong *see canticles across the board* and just seeing "FREE UPGRADES" and freaking out with "ERMAH GAWD FREEH POINHTZ OP". I will give that it is intimidating, there no two ways about that.

I think in time as people become familiar with them that the shock value will die out because it just that, shock value. Not just a new codex but a entirely new playable race, people generally don't like new, it unfamiliar and therefore scary. I for one will continue my praising of the Omnissiah.

I feel like certain Admech units are just a bit too expensive for what they do.

- Take Electro-priests, bad units in everyway.
- Infiltrators and Ruststalkers... I want to like them but their cost...
- Breachers which will never have torsion cannons on because of their cost. Arc rifles are the weapon of choice, but why take them when ya can get cheaper Vanguard.
- Dunecrawlers I feel torn about, on one hand more of them make them better. But I don't want three... especially in a squad where they can't splitfire.

And I can't help but feel that Skit/Mech formation with free upgrades is GW's way of making these overcosted units worth it.... by giving you free upgrades on your good ones.

 TheNewBlood wrote:

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
There's no reason to ask for more points based on 'free upgrades'. I wouldn't ask for 250pts if someone used the Blood Angel Vanguard Formation and I wouldn't do that here. I'd be surprised if I didn't laugh in their face if someone was asking for something like that.

Banning an entire faction is also ridiculous. People too scared to play a game? That's just sad.. Certainly wouldn't be a place I spend my time even though I still haven't gotten a game with the new Eldar in. Been having way too much fun with CSM...

But, both of these viewpoints will say loads about the AdMech. It will soon become endless hate when a player DARES to play AdMech, never mind that they might have been waiting for it to become a faction (or two...) since they got into 40k in general. And because you have dared to play a powerful army, you must gimp yourself ALWAYS. It is ABSOLUTELY the fault of the player that the troops choices can have kinda-D weapons.

Why can't we buck up and just play the game? Use tactics and strategy against these powerful armies and if it doesn't work, take the loss like an adult. And/or don't play for money. Losing a game isn't the worst thing in the world. And it's not like these two armies have been out long enough to get genuinely frustrated at losing against them.

I did admit that my "extra points allowance" was a non-serious comment taken a bit too far. Still, your point holds. There's no reason why one player should have extra points over the other simply because of one player's army setup.

By that logic there is no reason why an army should have a better resurrection protocols just because of one player's army setup.

So if you face me with a Decurion Necron, I get a 6+ RP to all my units too. Fair?

I'm curious to see how the War Convocation pans out the moment people get used to the new rules. The 2 batreps by FLG, Reece's opponents had no clue about the army's abilities.

My gaming group has banned the use of both Ad Mech armies so they are in the 'ridiculous tier' along with Eldar and Space Marines

SGTPozy wrote:
My gaming group has banned the use of both Ad Mech armies so they are in the 'ridiculous tier' along with Eldar and Space Marines

So your gaming group has banned AdMech, Eldar, and Space Marines? Sheesh, wow.

SGTPozy wrote:
My gaming group has banned the use of both Ad Mech armies so they are in the 'ridiculous tier' along with Eldar and Space Marines

Your group has banned Space Marines, but not Necron? Feels like someone with some influence there is a Necron player.

And why not just say Admech can't ally with anyone that can give them a drop pod? There is really nothing that strong about Ad Mech, except when they get taxi'ed. I can understand the outrage about that, but the army itself? Jeebus. What's next? Orks banned? "Alright guys, we've decided that everyone gets to play only Sisters. We sure are good at balance!"

 Purifier wrote:


Where is the batrep? I'd love to have a look at it.

http://www.twitch.tv/frontlinegaming_tv/v/5819645

 Ir0njack wrote:

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
That people are not focusing on what actually makes it strong *see canticles across the board* and just seeing "FREE UPGRADES" ...

Edit: Apologies for the misquote, website is not that friendly with this mobile phone.

If I buy my Sternguard the way they should be bought, I pay top dollar for their items, but if I call it a formation I suddenly get all upgrades for free. That doesn't make sense! Why do we have point values if they mean nothing?

Can't wait for the Tau codex and the Riptide formation. Buy three Riptides, get a fourth for free. It's all okay because I paid tax by having to take the Riptides in the first place.

Looks like GW stopped trying to assign point values to units and items. Unbound didn't catch wind, I'm sure they now succeeded.

Would you have been happier if they got something else for the formation instead? Something more like what others are getting? Maybe an army wide permanent +1T?

I would be happier with that while playing them.

It's not that this formation is giving more points and no one else is getting anything. Everyone is getting something with their formations that is buffing their whole army. AdMech are getting kitted out units, which, let's be honest, isn't as good. +1 to your Reanimation Protocols is universally good. There is no situation where that isn't going to help you.

Getting alternative weapons for free is in most cases good and in some cases it's just not going to have any impact at all.

I get that it's a good bonus, but it's not as ridiculous as you're all making it out to be. What's ridiculous is Skitarii in nearly free drop pods. That's just broken.

Personally, I feel that the Convocation is one of the few times that Plasma Calivers become a competitive option.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Personally, I feel that the Convocation is one of the few times that Plasma Calivers become a competitive option.

No kidding, the Plasma doubles their cost. W/ the formation you actually can take it and some other units.

I think the formation is no way more broken than the decurion...

If that's allowed there shouldn't be any problems with the war convocation. It's nice seeing an army of the imperium on top.

SGTPozy wrote:
My gaming group has banned the use of both Ad Mech armies so they are in the 'ridiculous tier' along with Eldar and Space Marines

Note to self: never game with SGTPozy and friends.

 Quickjager wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Personally, I feel that the Convocation is one of the few times that Plasma Calivers become a competitive option.

No kidding, the Plasma doubles their cost. W/ the formation you actually can take it and some other units.

yeah the things that you start seeing in the Convocation are things that really are costed terribly.

So you start seeing Calivers, that might have been worth it at 20ppm but cost 30 ppm.
You see a ton of relics, most of them are kinda golly gee this might be worth 10-15 points but costs 45 points

So the Convocation gets 500 free points, it really 250 points or so.
And you have to take Ruststalkers and infiltrators, both of which are overprices, netting really 0 free upgrades.


Now if you could take a formation that had a knight, Skitarri force org, and a Cult Mech force org, just Knight, 2 skitarri troops, and 2 Cult Mech troops+1cult HQ and whatever else you wanted and all that got the bonus of Canticles; but no free upgrades. That would be a far more powerful formation.

 Exergy wrote:

 Quickjager wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Personally, I feel that the Convocation is one of the few times that Plasma Calivers become a competitive option.

No kidding, the Plasma doubles their cost. W/ the formation you actually can take it and some other units.

yeah the things that you start seeing in the Convocation are things that really are costed terribly.

So you start seeing Calivers, that might have been worth it at 20ppm but cost 30 ppm.
You see a ton of relics, most of them are kinda golly gee this might be worth 10-15 points but costs 45 points

So the Convocation gets 500 free points, it really 250 points or so.
And you have to take Ruststalkers and infiltrators, both of which are overprices, netting really 0 free upgrades.


Now if you could take a formation that had a knight, Skitarri force org, and a Cult Mech force org, just Knight, 2 skitarri troops, and 2 Cult Mech troops+1cult HQ and whatever else you wanted and all that got the bonus of Canticles; but no free upgrades. That would be a far more powerful
formation.

For The record... What makes this formation is army wide canticles... Not the free upgrades.

 j31c3n wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
My gaming group has banned the use of both Ad Mech armies so they are in the 'ridiculous tier' along with Eldar and Space Marines

Note to self: never game with SGTPozy and friends.

I think they all play guard conscript squads,

I've seen him complain about marines, ad mech, eldar, grey knights, daemons etc.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

For The record... What makes this formation is army wide canticles... Not the free upgrades.

exactly the point of my above post, far better worded.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
For The record... What makes this formation is army wide canticles... Not the free upgrades.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I though that Canticles are based on the number of units that have them, with the more units increasing the power.

Sounds fine to me. From what I understand, there are plenty of nice and squishy units in Skitarii/Mechanicus.

 TheNewBlood wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
For The record... What makes this formation is army wide canticles... Not the free upgrades.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I though that Canticles are based on the number of units that have them, with the more units increasing the power.

Sounds fine to me. From what I understand, there are plenty of nice and squishy units in Skitarii/Mechanicus.

Knights aren't squishy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, 2++ Cover with FNP6+ and sometimes IWND is nothing to scoff at...

 TheNewBlood wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
For The record... What makes this formation is army wide canticles... Not the free upgrades.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I though that Canticles are based on the number of units that have them, with the more units increasing the power.

Sounds fine to me. From what I understand, there are plenty of nice and squishy units in Skitarii/Mechanicus.

but Skitarii do not have the rule "Canticles" unless you take the formation. THAT is what makes the formation so powerful

In this formation, you're pretty much Gauranteed the 8+ result on ALL UNITS in the Army. It's pretty awesome.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
In this formation, you're pretty much Gauranteed the 8+ result on ALL UNITS in the Army. It's pretty awesome.

For the first turn, at least.

Wait... Allies can use each others' drop pods? What did I miss?

 Quarterdime wrote:
Wait... Allies can use each others' drop pods? What did I miss?

If it's a fast attack drop pod, they can.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 Quarterdime wrote:
Wait... Allies can use each others' drop pods? What did I miss?

If it's a fast attack drop pod, they can.

That's... kinda scary. But it does make sense I guess.

 Quarterdime wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 Quarterdime wrote:
Wait... Allies can use each others' drop pods? What did I miss?

If it's a fast attack drop pod, they can.

That's... kinda scary. But it does make sense I guess.

From a sales perspective it sure does.

 Purifier wrote:

 Quarterdime wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 Quarterdime wrote:
Wait... Allies can use each others' drop pods? What did I miss?

If it's a fast attack drop pod, they can.

That's... kinda scary. But it does make sense I guess.

From a sales perspective it sure does.

Nothing wrong with GW selling more models. I want them to stay in business. And I love the direction they're headed in. It's a niche expensive hobby. Not everyone is able to be involved, but those that are should root for the company to be successful so they may still indulge in their products.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

 Quarterdime wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 Quarterdime wrote:
Wait... Allies can use each others' drop pods? What did I miss?

If it's a fast attack drop pod, they can.

That's... kinda scary. But it does make sense I guess.

From a sales perspective it sure does.

Nothing wrong with GW selling more models. I want them to stay in business. And I love the direction they're headed in. It's a niche expensive hobby. Not everyone is able to be involved, but those that are should root for the company to be successful so they may still indulge in their products.

I disagree.
I think the rules aren't going to be good until GW fails, so while I love their models, I think the game would get better if the company collapsed.

 Purifier wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

 Quarterdime wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 Quarterdime wrote:
Wait... Allies can use each others' drop pods? What did I miss?

If it's a fast attack drop pod, they can.

That's... kinda scary. But it does make sense I guess.

From a sales perspective it sure does.

Nothing wrong with GW selling more models. I want them to stay in business. And I love the direction they're headed in. It's a niche expensive hobby. Not everyone is able to be involved, but those that are should root for the company to be successful so they may still indulge in their products.

I disagree.
I think the rules aren't going to be good until GW fails, so while I love their models, I think the game would get better if the company collapsed.

The game is actually in a pretty awesome state right now.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
The game is actually in a pretty awesome state right now.

I couldn't disagree more. It's in a tragic state.

The models are in a fantastic state.

 Purifier wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
The game is actually in a pretty awesome state right now.

I couldn't disagree more. It's in a tragic state.

The models are in a fantastic state.

Formations are exciting, GT TOs have collectively agreed for the most part on a decent tourney format, there's great army diversity, new players have more options than ever on how to construct their armies, modified maelstrom missions keep things exciting etc.

I'm loving 40k and I know the majority of tourney goers and casual people in my area, feel the same.

Was over 9000! already said?
I have a game against Skitarii/Cult next week, I will have my own impression then I heard they are good.

Formations are getting ridiculous, there is no decent tourney format, there are so many rulebooks and no overview on them that no one has any idea where to find dataslates, FW rules, White Dwarf rules and more. New players have a higher entry fee than ever and Maelstrom missions are bland and poorly thought out compared to any other game system.

The only thing balancing out 40k at the moment is that everyone is so thuroughly confused about what's what that they don't have time to settle into a new overpowered build before a new codex comes and blindsides them.

 Purifier wrote:
Formations are getting ridiculous, there is no decent tourney format, there are so many rulebooks and no overview on them that no one has any idea where to find dataslates, FW rules, White Dwarf rules and more. New players have a higher entry fee than ever and Maelstrom missions are bland and poorly thought out compared to any other game system.

The only thing balancing out 40k at the moment is that everyone is so thuroughly confused about what's what that they don't have time to settle into a new overpowered build before a new codex comes and blindsides them.

From everyone I speak with, you seem to be in the minority man.

I'm LOVING the direction of 40k.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 Purifier wrote:
Formations are getting ridiculous, there is no decent tourney format, there are so many rulebooks and no overview on them that no one has any idea where to find dataslates, FW rules, White Dwarf rules and more. New players have a higher entry fee than ever and Maelstrom missions are bland and poorly thought out compared to any other game system.

The only thing balancing out 40k at the moment is that everyone is so thuroughly confused about what's what that they don't have time to settle into a new overpowered build before a new codex comes and blindsides them.

From everyone I speak with, you seem to be in the minority man.

I'm LOVING the direction of 40k.

Hi, Welcome to Dakkadakka.
The only thing we're arguing here is how the game is broken. Not if it is.
You're the first person I've seen that actually just think the game is doing great.

From the looks of things we joined falls around the same time.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
From the looks of things we joined falls around the same time.

Which is why your comments baffle me. It's like you haven't read anything on here.

 Purifier wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
From the looks of things we joined falls around the same time.

Which is why your comments baffle me. It's like you haven't read anything on here.

I hear a lot of good things about this edition. It's just negative people speak louder than positive ones. If people like the game, great play it! Of people don't... Don't play it!

It's a game after all... I only play games when they're fun to me. When games stop being fun, I stop playing them. It's almost as if people don't value their spare time.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 Quarterdime wrote:
Wait... Allies can use each others' drop pods? What did I miss?

If it's a fast attack drop pod, they can.

For the uninformed can you point me to the rule that says this. Learn something everyday!

Hi, Welcome to Dakkadakka.
The only thing we're arguing here is how the game is broken. Not if it is.
You're the first person I've seen that actually just think the game is doing great.

Well I agree with what both of you said: the game is currently broken = true, I love the direction of 40k = i do also. In my humble opinion, the only reason why it seem broken is because you have to wait for your codex to be updated. Don't get me wrong, it will still be unbalance. But once everybody receive their codex, it won't be as much. Of course then, they will just start a new cycle to mess with our feelings lol.

After thinking a bit about what I wrote, I feel like i need to add more precision to my though. I said i like the direction 40k is taken. Well that's half true. there is a lot of thing I dislike about how GW is doing business lately, like releasing new stuff at the speed of light, or having trouble balancing it out at the end of the day because they are there to sell mini and not the game. But some other thing I like. I like formation. Not the current formation we have, but the concept of formation. I can imagine a world where I have the choice of bringing Sammael and make my bike troops choice, so I can make a CAd with ObjSec on my bikes, OR choose to bring Sammael and some other restriction to bring my Ravenwing as a formation, which wouldn't have ObjSec but other bonuse like we see in formation. That would give more choice, and that's awesome.

that's my 2cent, and keep in mind that I didn't start playing a long long time ago (I started Day 1 of 6th edition)

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:


I hear a lot of good things about this edition. It's just negative people speak louder than positive ones. If people like the game, great play it! Of people don't... Don't play it!

It's a game after all... I only play games when they're fun to me. When games stop being fun, I stop playing them. It's almost as if people don't value their spare time.

I make the game enjoyable for me by fixing the glaring holes in the mess GW is calling a rulebook. That doesn't excuse their terrible rules writing. And my group are puritans. I ally Skitarii with Cult Mechanicus, but that's the most allying being done. People in my group don't use dataslates, FW, super heavies or white dwarf rules.

When we end up (as we do several times every game) in a situation that the rules don't cover we just shrug and try to make something up, because "the rules won't have anything on that" has become a motto for us.

We are creating a fun game out of the trainwreck. This also makes us completely unable to play against anyone else, like visiting a club or the likes.

The whole "negative people speak louder" is being thrown around like it invalidates everything being said. It doesn't.

 PandaHero wrote:
it will still be unbalance. But once everybody receive their codex, it won't be as much.

As a person that has been playing through a lot of cycles, that's wishful thinking. We have always been saying that since the early 90s, and it has never happened yet.

PandaHero wrote:
it will still be unbalance. But once everybody receive their codex, it won't be as much.


As a person that has been playing through a lot of cycles, that's wishful thinking. We have always been saying that since the early 90s, and it has never happened yet.

But once everybody receive their codex, it won't be as much. Of course then, they will just start a new cycle to mess with our feelings lol.
Must feel good to quote only a portion of someone post to prove a point.

and just in case I misunderstand you/you misunderstood me, I'm saying that it won't be balance at the end of the cycle, just more balance that only after 3-4 codex. More team update has a good chance of making at least 1 more team viable lol.

 PandaHero wrote:

PandaHero wrote:
it will still be unbalance. But once everybody receive their codex, it won't be as much.


As a person that has been playing through a lot of cycles, that's wishful thinking. We have always been saying that since the early 90s, and it has never happened yet.

But once everybody receive their codex, it won't be as much. Of course then, they will just start a new cycle to mess with our feelings lol.
Must feel good to quote only a portion of someone post to prove a point.

and just in case I misunderstand you/you misunderstood me, I'm saying that it won't be balance at the end of the cycle, just more balance that only after 3-4 codex. More team update has a good chance of making at least 1 more team viable lol.

I saw what you said and I wasn't commenting on the end of the cycle. I was commenting on the cycle.
GW has never kept their current direction through a whole cycle

They have always decided to go in some random different direction and messed it up again mid-cycle.

 PandaHero wrote:

PandaHero wrote:
it will still be unbalance. But once everybody receive their codex, it won't be as much.


As a person that has been playing through a lot of cycles, that's wishful thinking. We have always been saying that since the early 90s, and it has never happened yet.

But once everybody receive their codex, it won't be as much. Of course then, they will just start a new cycle to mess with our feelings lol.
Must feel good to quote only a portion of someone post to prove a point.

and just in case I misunderstand you/you misunderstood me, I'm saying that it won't be balance at the end of the cycle, just more balance that only after 3-4 codex. More team update has a good chance of making at least 1 more team viable lol.

Purifier just seems jaded man. I mean he's altered the game to the point where he's unable to play in different stores. To me that's not 40k. You have two types of people I'm 40k... Those that are jaded and won't accept change in the game. They typically do whatever they can to sully GW.

Then you have those who are excited about the change, they embrace it, see the good in it and have fun with it. They also adapt to it, learn to play in that meta and don't let it get them down.

Actually, yes, negative people speak louder, because contented people don't feel the urge to say anything. I've been playing 40k since the end of 2nd Ed/start of 3rd Ed. Yeah, back when Khorne Berzerkers were OP and made your Terminator armour invalid, and could consolidate from combat to combat so you never got a chance to fight them. Look at the old release cycle, you had people bitching about how slow it was, and now people are bitching about the fast release cycle.

If you don't like it, don't play it. Or find a bunch of friends who are like-minded (since every naysayer seems to think that they're in the majority) to play an old edition with. I don't see how that's so difficult.

Personally, no edition was perfect, and no point in time was perfect either. I'm loving the variety in games now, and while yes, there's a crap-ton of sources for stuff, I don't think that that's a bad thing (unless you're a TO, then my hat goes off to you for all your hard work). Everyone back in the day had a copy of EVERY 'dex read and memorized before going to a GT, which made the game hyper-competitive in certain FLGS and groups. War is never predictable. War is hardly ever fair either. This is a wargame. You should be used to sometimes not knowing what's going to show up, or being outmatched. I'm for one, glad that it's prohibitively expensive to own every 'dex, dataslate, formation, supplement, FW book, etc. so there's still some element of surprise to games.

Again, if you don't like it, no one's asking you to play it. Nor is anyone asking you to spoil the mood for everyone else who likes the state of the game as it is. Everyone's been saying that GW is going to tank for the last half a decade to a decade. It hasn't tanked yet, not even under Kirby's leadership, and their annual financials are fine.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Purifier just seems jaded man. I mean he's altered the game to the point where he's unable to play in different stores. To me that's not 40k. You have two types of people I'm 40k... Those that are jaded and won't accept change in the game. They typically do whatever they can to sully GW.

Then you have those who are excited about the change, they embrace it, see the good in it and have fun with it. They also adapt to it, learn to play in that meta and don't let it get them down.

Wow, that's starting to become pretty personal.
I could say there are two types of people in 40k. People that try to fix what's given to them and people that will swallow any piece of trash GW decides to feed them and refuses to question it in their glazed view think GW can do no wrong.

 Purifier wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Purifier just seems jaded man. I mean he's altered the game to the point where he's unable to play in different stores. To me that's not 40k. You have two types of people I'm 40k... Those that are jaded and won't accept change in the game. They typically do whatever they can to sully GW.

Then you have those who are excited about the change, they embrace it, see the good in it and have fun with it. They also adapt to it, learn to play in that meta and don't let it get them down.

Wow, that's starting to become pretty personal.
I could say there are two types of people in 40k. People that try to fix what's given to them and people that will swallow any piece of trash GW decides to feed them and refuses to question it in their glazed view think GW can do no wrong.

Not a personal attack on you man. But with the amount of negativity you seem to have on GW why don't you choose a different game system or a different hobby?

If I disliked a company the way it sounds like you do, I wouldn't be supporting them. That's for sure.

Hell if I got this distraught over a game I wouldn't be playing it.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Purifier just seems jaded man. I mean he's altered the game to the point where he's unable to play in different stores. To me that's not 40k. You have two types of people I'm 40k... Those that are jaded and won't accept change in the game. They typically do whatever they can to sully GW.

Then you have those who are excited about the change, they embrace it, see the good in it and have fun with it. They also adapt to it, learn to play in that meta and don't let it get them down.

Wow, that's starting to become pretty personal.
I could say there are two types of people in 40k. People that try to fix what's given to them and people that will swallow any piece of trash GW decides to feed them and refuses to question it in their glazed view think GW can do no wrong.

Not a personal attack on you man. But with the amount of negativity you seem to have on GW why don't you choose a different game system or a different hobby?

If I disliked a company the way it sounds like you do, I wouldn't be supporting them. That's for sure.

Hell if I got this distraught over a game I wouldn't be playing it.

HAHAHA are you kidding? I tell you that I like the game so much that I have taken the time to solve the biggest most glaring problems with the expensive books I bought, and that I actually enjoy the game this way, and you're telling me not only that I'm "jaded" but that I'm enjoying the game the wrong way and shouldn't be playing it. And that's not a personal attack? Wow, here I thought since you mentioned me by name it was about me. Guess I use English in a different way than you do.

 Purifier wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Purifier just seems jaded man. I mean he's altered the game to the point where he's unable to play in different stores. To me that's not 40k. You have two types of people I'm 40k... Those that are jaded and won't accept change in the game. They typically do whatever they can to sully GW.

Then you have those who are excited about the change, they embrace it, see the good in it and have fun with it. They also adapt to it, learn to play in that meta and don't let it get them down.

Wow, that's starting to become pretty personal.
I could say there are two types of people in 40k. People that try to fix what's given to them and people that will swallow any piece of trash GW decides to feed them and refuses to question it in their glazed view think GW can do no wrong.

Not a personal attack on you man. But with the amount of negativity you seem to have on GW why don't you choose a different game system or a different hobby?

If I disliked a company the way it sounds like you do, I wouldn't be supporting them. That's for sure.

Hell if I got this distraught over a game I wouldn't be playing it.

HAHAHA are you kidding? I tell you that I like the game so much that I have taken the time to solve the biggest most glaring problems with the expensive books I bought, and that I actually enjoy the game this way, and you're telling me not only that I'm "jaded" but that I'm enjoying the game the wrong way and shouldn't be playing it. And that's not a personal attack? Wow, here I thought since you mentioned me by name it was about me. Guess I use English in a different way than you do.

I suppose you do amigo.

Happy war gaming!

Don't even argue with DMB.

Just take a quick gander through DMB's post history.

Not worth it man.

They have always decided to go in some random different direction and messed it up again mid-cycle.

Ah ok I get what you mean. Yeah I guess I'm a bit naive that the cycle will help the balancing, but so far they stick to it (affter reading Space Marine rumor) and I'm happy that way. Only time will tell, and while waiting, I'm going to enjoy a couple game Playing my DA Ravenwing against Orks tonight, I can't wait to see how it turn out ^.^

Hey, if they managed to go through a whole cycle of Codex updates counting the start as the Necron codex in the current vein, it's actually looking quite good on the Codex-end of the whole thing.

Some things are a bit messy. Like Adeptus Mechanicus getting their good Formation in a White Dwarf... which means if I played with super heavies I would have to carry that with me too.

And if everyone is getting the kind of buffs that Eldar got, super heavies are going to be needed to keep up with everyone else's. I can see my group changing stance on that if the current releases are anything to go by. I can see myself changing my stance on it too.

But in general, yeah if all codex are updated to match this power creep, I think it could be a good edition. But the BRB is still terribly written.