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Now that everything's out, how do you guys think this army will fare against the current competitive armies?

Which book: Cult or Skitarii?

I'm thinking mainly them combined. Also, potentially the WD formation that combines them with the imperial knight.

Where do I find the information about that formation?

White dwarf 69

From what I have seen the War Convocation appears to be at least upper mid tier using only it. With drop pods its tier 1 for sure and it counters general eldar pretty hard, basically an auto win if the Ad Mech go first since. Having an entire army with a near 2+ cover save(maybe 1-2 units will be 3+) for your first turn with all of the infantry having FnP, many with multiwounds, is incredibly durable even at T3. I think the literal 600 extra points makes the army incredibly good on already excellent units, but its really the canticles that put it over the top as they are essentially unstoppable psychic powers that auto-pass with no deny, affect the entire army vs a single unit, and are just extra free points since its a formation bonus specific to the War Convocation non-Ad Mech units. The downside to the canticles is they get "worse" the less units you have (8+ for the best), but its not really much worse for the next tier (4-7 units). For some canticles, like the twin-link one, its almost entirely irrelevant to your army as it reverts to re-rolling 1 and 2's....on an army that is almost entire BS4+, so essentially twin-linking the army still.

Strong without the formation. Over the top ridic right alongside eldar with the formation. Even stronger after abusing allies for some taxi pods.

niv-mizzet wrote:
Strong without the formation. Over the top ridic right alongside eldar with the formation. Even stronger after abusing allies for some taxi pods.

You think the WD formation puts them along side elder in power?

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:
Strong without the formation. Over the top ridic right alongside eldar with the formation. Even stronger after abusing allies for some taxi pods.

You think the WD formation puts them along side elder in power?

The one where you get to have an army 500+ points bigger than your opponent? Absolutely. FLG used it in a batrep against a hard tourney eldar list, and outright tabled them, even while making dumb tactical mistakes like dogpiling 3 units together right before the wwp d-scythe squad dropped in.

By themselves, they are a formidable opponent. With drop pods, they are probably the most powerful take-all-comers army, at least until some creative types dream of good counter strategies.

In our games, AdMech + pod has a very high win ratio against untailored TAC Necron and Eldar armies, and like, an almost perfect win ratio against IG, Tyranid, Orks.

However, we don't play a ton, so a lot of it is just that we haven't adjusted strategy and tactics (nevermind units) to fight them yet. These guys are definitely meta-disrupting.

niv-mizzet wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:
Strong without the formation. Over the top ridic right alongside eldar with the formation. Even stronger after abusing allies for some taxi pods.

You think the WD formation puts them along side elder in power?

The one where you get to have an army 500+ points bigger than your opponent? Absolutely. FLG used it in a batrep against a hard tourney eldar list, and outright tabled them, even while making dumb tactical mistakes like dogpiling 3 units together right before the wwp d-scythe squad dropped in.

Where is the batrep? I'd love to have a look at it.

I for one am happy to hear this. If an army has to be super powerful, and on top, if it's not eldar, it's ok in my books. I'd face it any day, unlike how I'd walk away from eldar players.

SilverSaint wrote:
From what I have seen the War Convocation appears to be at least upper mid tier using only it. With drop pods its tier 1 for sure and it counters general eldar pretty hard, basically an auto win if the Ad Mech go first since. Having an entire army with a near 2+ cover save(maybe 1-2 units will be 3+) for your first turn with all of the infantry having FnP, many with multiwounds, is incredibly durable even at T3.

Vanguard and Rangers are FNP of 6+ while Infiltrators and Ruststalkers are the 'standard' 5+.
That T3 hurts on those units. It really does.

And while yeah, Sicarian stuff has 2 Wounds each--it's T3 with a 4+/6++ and a FNP 5+. Things cancel out that 4+ very easily, and the FNP of 5+ or a 6++ are not very reliable.

I think the literal 600 extra points

Which is mostly going to be Relics or Plasma Calivers for the Rangers/Vanguard--as most of the units have major upgrade options(such as Ruststalkers going from Chordclaws/Transonic Razors to 2x Transonic Blades is a free upgrade) for free since they radically shift the unit's actual setup.

makes the army incredibly good on already excellent units, but its really the canticles that put it over the top as they are essentially unstoppable psychic powers that auto-pass with no deny, affect the entire army vs a single unit, and are just extra free points since its a formation bonus specific to the War Convocation non-Ad Mech units.

Skitarii have no access to Canticles outside of this formation as well. "Ad Mech" is the name of the overall faction; Cult Mechanicus is the specific name.
You would have a much better point if Doctrina Imperatives spread to the whole army as well, but they don't.

More on that in a moment!

The downside to the canticles is they get "worse" the less units you have (8+ for the best), but its not really much worse for the next tier (4-7 units). For some canticles, like the twin-link one, its almost entirely irrelevant to your army as it reverts to re-rolling 1 and 2's....on an army that is almost entire BS4+, so essentially twin-linking the army still.

BS4 on Skitarii, BS3 on Kataphron Battle Servitors and Kastelan Robots.
So, you have BS4 Skitarii(Onagers, Rangers, Vanguards, Ballistarii/Dragoons with Phosphor Serpenta and/or Radium Jezzails, and Sicarian Infiltrators) that can be boosted up to 7/6/5 for a single turn of Shooting(Imperatives stay in effect during the enemy's turn--which doesn't exactly do much for your Shooting since you don't Overwatch at your standard BS) and WS 7/6/5, once per game via Doctrina Imperatives.

Canticles are much less "here and now", instead allowing rerolls of CC or Shooting attacks with rolls of 1/2/anything that didn't hit or allowing buffs like Shrouded+Stealth or Fearless/Stubborn or attacks done to models in B2B. These can be done TWICE per game because of the Detachment special rule allowing for it.

Also the other "downside" to Canticles is you do not start the game with them on. You activate them during "the start of YOUR turn". So if you don't Seize and the Eldar player has the first turn--whatever you have to start with is whatever you have to start with.

Is the formation powerful? Sure. Does it give you free upgrades to your units? Sure! But it doesn't give you more models or recycling ability for the models.
Is it as powerful as an Eldar force built using their Warhost FOC? Potentially.

Personally, I wish the Oathsworn Knight Detachment was optional. I have everything to field the Convocation without the Knight, and would like the option to do so.

You can use each canticle once per game in this formation.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
You can use each canticle once per game in this formation.

Where did you see that? Because the Cult Mechanicus Battle Congregation says different.

Cult Mechanicus Battle Congregation Detachment wrote:
Command Benefits
Tech-Adept: If this Detachment is your Primary Detachment, you can re-roll the result when rolling on the Warlord Traits table in Codex: Cult Mechanicus.
Divine Chorus: If your army includes one or more Detachments with this special rule, you can, once per game, choose to re-use a Canticle of the Omnissiah(pg 73) that your army has already used earlier in the game.

The detachment in the book, let's you reroll. Does this count if you're using the WD formation?

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
The detachment in the book, let's you reroll. Does this count if you're using the WD formation?

Divine Chorus: If your army includes one or more Detachments with this special rule, you can, once per game, choose to re-use a Canticle of the Omnissiah(pg 73) that your army has already used earlier in the game.

Does the WD formation include a Cult Mechanicus Battle Congregation Detachment?
Yes.

So yeah, you do get to use each twice.

Its only fluffy that the army which holds the IoMs greatest technological secrets be so very capable of tabling the eldar.

Well I'm going to be the first to say...

Its OVER 9000

Unfortunately in my local store, I haven't had the privilege of playing against Skitarii, but someone IS making an army of them. The same cant be said for the cult mechanicus. Everyone has agreed that an army of baymax, that guy from mortal kombat and tanklings is frankly stupid.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
The detachment in the book, let's you reroll. Does this count if you're using the WD formation?

Divine Chorus: If your army includes one or more Detachments with this special rule, you can, once per game, choose to re-use a Canticle of the Omnissiah(pg 73) that your army has already used earlier in the game.

Does the WD formation include a Cult Mechanicus Battle Congregation Detachment?
Yes.

So yeah, you do get to use each twice.

No, you get to use ONE an extra time. 'Re-use A Canticle that was used earlier'.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
The detachment in the book, let's you reroll. Does this count if you're using the WD formation?

Divine Chorus: If your army includes one or more Detachments with this special rule, you can, once per game, choose to re-use a Canticle of the Omnissiah(pg 73) that your army has already used earlier in the game.

Does the WD formation include a Cult Mechanicus Battle Congregation Detachment?
Yes.

So yeah, you do get to use each twice.

No, you get to use ONE an extra time. 'Re-use A Canticle that was used earlier'.

Either way, it's not "one per game" now is it?

But it's also not 'use each twice'.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 SharkoutofWata wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
The detachment in the book, let's you reroll. Does this count if you're using the WD formation?

Divine Chorus: If your army includes one or more Detachments with this special rule, you can, once per game, choose to re-use a Canticle of the Omnissiah(pg 73) that your army has already used earlier in the game.

Does the WD formation include a Cult Mechanicus Battle Congregation Detachment?
Yes.

So yeah, you do get to use each twice.

No, you get to use ONE an extra time. 'Re-use A Canticle that was used earlier'.

Either way, it's not "one per game" now is it?

The wording, RAW, is that you can, once a game, choose the option to re-use a Canticle. I don't see how that's not clear.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
But it's also not 'use each twice'.

Did I dispute that in my reply to you?

No?

So fine. You're right, I'm wrong. However seeing the wording--you could actually make an argument for being able to use each twice.

 Enigwolf wrote:

The wording, RAW, is that you can, once a game, choose the option to re-use a Canticle. I don't see how that's not clear.

If you REALLY wanted to get into RAW--you could make the argument that since it does not say:
"You can, once per game, choose to re-use a single Canticle of the Omnissiah", you could use each twice.

You're the one that said 'use each twice', which is incorrect. It's not an 'either way' thing. There is a single correct answer. If you're getting defensive about it, there's no need.

And there is no argument about RAW. Once per game you can reuse a Canticle. Try to do that again and it's no longer 'once per game'. That would be reusing a Canticle twice per game.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Enigwolf wrote:

The wording, RAW, is that you can, once a game, choose the option to re-use a Canticle. I don't see how that's not clear.

If you REALLY wanted to get into RAW--you could make the argument that since it does not say:
"You can, once per game, choose to re-use a single Canticle of the Omnissiah", you could use each twice.

I don't need to, because of this little one letter:

"You can, once per game, choose to re-use a Canticle of the Omnissiah"

"a" is, by default, referencing the singular.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
You're the one that said 'use each twice', which is incorrect. It's not an 'either way' thing. There is a single correct answer. If you're getting defensive about it, there's no need.

I'm not the one getting defensive about it. I was more than happy to admit I was wrong--except now that I read it in closer detail, I'm starting to think you are in the wrong here not me.

And there is no argument about RAW. Once per game you can reuse a Canticle. Try to do that again and it's no longer 'once per game'. That would be reusing a Canticle twice per game.

Cult Mechanicus p72 wrote:
Canticles of the Omnissiah
At the start of each of your turns, you can choose one Canticle of the Omnissiah from the list opposite. The effects of each Canticle last until the start of your next turn. Unless otherwise stated, each Canticle can only be used once during the game.

So with that wording, it establishes that each Canticle can be used once during the game, right? The key word there being "each".

Cult Mechanicus p56 wrote:
Command Benefits:
Divine Chorus: If your army includes one or more Detachments with this special rule, you can, once per game, choose to re-use a Canticle of the Omnissiah(pg 73) that your army has already used earlier in the game.

So while yes, it certainly does say "once per game", it does NOT say that it is restricted to a single Canticle of the Omnissiah.

For the record? The Skitarii book has the exact same wording for Doctrina Imperatives, and I have yet to see anyone dispute Skitarii popping Doctrina Imperatives twice in a game when fielding the War Cohort formation.

 Kanluwen wrote:

For the record? The Skitarii book has the exact same wording for Doctrina Imperatives, and I have yet to see anyone dispute Skitarii popping Doctrina Imperatives twice in a game when fielding the War Cohort formation.

Probably because I don't think any notable games have been played with, or enough people have played with, a War Cohort yet. Mind, it's 3 Battle Maniples.

How are you making the connection that it can be used again and again for each power that you have previously used? I'm not following that train of thought. There's no wording there that indicates plural. Everything is singular. And like I said, if you try to reuse a different Canticle, that isn't using this Special Rule once per game. That would be using it twice.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
How are you making the connection that it can be used again and again for each power that you have previously used? I'm not following that train of thought. There's no wording there that indicates plural. Everything is singular. And like I said, if you try to reuse a different Canticle, that isn't using this Special Rule once per game. That would be using it twice.

You use each Canticle once per game, correct?

Since it does not state 'a single Canticle of the Omnissiah', it's very easy to make the connection that the "once per game" simply is not allowing you to reuse each Canticle more than once.