What is the most overpowered thing in the current 40k ruleset, and why?

I daresay grav and d weps are pretty top
Overall imbalance of shooting to cc

First cause it's mainly limited to certain factions
Second cause the rulset rly favors the shootas and cc became borderline effective, the first does influence it too.

 Selym wrote:
What is the most overpowered thing in the current 40k ruleset, and why?

I don't think you can point to a single "most OP" thing. There's a huge number of wildly overpowered possibilities that each offer their own, vastly different, versions of OPness, and the level of OPness can differ depending on what it's facing.

It doesn't have to be a single thing, it could be a combo, it could be a weapon type. You could scream "TAU IZ OP" and then spend several hours fighting off angry Tau players.

Chapter Master Smashf*cker with in a Bike Command Squad with lucky rolls on Warlord Traits and Psychic Powers. T5, IWND, 2+/2++/2+ FNP and 4 wounds make him literally immortal.

Wraithguard in a Raider. Or in a Wave Serpent with a WWP Archon. Throw in a Spiritseer for good measure and that's 5 Str D weapons rerolling 1s to miss, if you keep the cannons, EXACTLY where you need them. That will kill any single thing outright.

Invisibility is pretty broken, especially when you can cast it on a LoW... really needed errata to only affect infantry.

zerosignal wrote:
Invisibility is pretty broken, especially when you can cast it on a LoW... really needed errata to only affect infantry.

Damn. Never thought of that.

Creed should grant it to a LoW on T1 though

Invisibility is probably number one since it can be abused by so many units, ranging from Death Stars to LoW. It instantly makes a unit over the top.

Otherwise - Cheap ranged D.

I'm tempted to say Grav but it isn't powerful in general, just a hard-counter to the majority of things we consider tough in the first place. So while it may excel at taking out very valuable units - armies like Orks and IG are much less impacted.

Probably invisibility. Just because so much broken gak relies on it.

A Necron Decurion formation.

multi CAD, formations and ally. Three most OP things in w40k right now.

Eldar as they get access to most of the stuff listed as OP by the above posters

Grots and Lasguns. Crazy OP and need a serious nerf!

SOOOOOOUUUUUL BLAAAAAAAAAZE!

Stomp.

It's a close combat attack that can kill things a foot away from and not involved in any close combat and regardless of any defensive factors of the thing being killed.

It is the single stupidest rule in the game.

Five Imperial Knights in an 1850 pt army.

As a Guard player, I cast Invisibility on my Shadowsword in one friendly game.

That was pretty broken.

Pretty much the ability to cast Invisibility on anything.

Otherwise, Warlord titan...because it's supposed to be the most powerful thing right now. Also, it doesn't care about Invisibility as it can just target the ground instead.

Nomeny wrote:
SOOOOOOUUUUUL BLAAAAAAAAAZE!

This ability easily breaks the game the most.

the imbalance of shooting and assault and tau shot multipliers.

Wraiths
TWC
WG
Invis

Invisibility is probably the most OP thing. It pretty much wins games without effort

shyzo wrote:
Chapter Master Smashf*cker with in a Bike Command Squad with lucky rolls on Warlord Traits and Psychic Powers. T5, IWND, 2+/2++/2+ FNP and 4 wounds make him literally immortal.

Well not literally. 1 wraithcannon rolls a 6 to wound and its gone. D doesn't give a gak about eternal warrior, fnp or invuls.

High strength ranged AP2 weapons are undercosted across the board, and are the single most influential thing that's throwing off game balance. It's what makes Eldar so OP.

The herald of Tzeentch... an entire list full of them.
Prepare for infinite daemon!

 Ravenous D wrote:

shyzo wrote:
Chapter Master Smashf*cker with in a Bike Command Squad with lucky rolls on Warlord Traits and Psychic Powers. T5, IWND, 2+/2++/2+ FNP and 4 wounds make him literally immortal.

Well not literally. 1 wraithcannon rolls a 6 to wound and its gone. D doesn't give a gak about eternal warrior, fnp or invuls.

Thank God. Though I do love stomping them to death too.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Five Imperial Knights in an 1850 pt army.

Not as OP in practice ive seen.
Had a guy bring it to a hardcore event.
Got destroyed 2 out of his three rounds.
He only got one win via a buy.
He got wrecked by a greentide and by necrons pre decurion

 DanielBeaver wrote:
High strength ranged AP2 weapons are undercosted across the board, and are the single most influential thing that's throwing off game balance. It's what makes Eldar so OP.

They are really only undercosted on hornets and maybe to some extent on war walkers BUT much more so on hornets - I got no problem with war walkers.


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die toten hosen wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Five Imperial Knights in an 1850 pt army.

Not as OP in practice ive seen.
Had a guy bring it to a hardcore event.
Got destroyed 2 out of his three rounds.
He only got one win via a buy.
He got wrecked by a greentide and by necrons pre decurion

Well if you army can kill predators pretty well it can also kill IK.

Wraithknight.

Enough said.

 Xenomancers wrote:

die toten hosen wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Five Imperial Knights in an 1850 pt army.

Not as OP in practice ive seen.
Had a guy bring it to a hardcore event.
Got destroyed 2 out of his three rounds.
He only got one win via a buy.
He got wrecked by a greentide and by necrons pre decurion

Well if you army can kill predators pretty well it can also kill IK.

I have struggled to deal with predators since 5E. As Imperial Guard...

Yes I tried footspam. No I don't wanna talk about it :c

 Selym wrote:

zerosignal wrote:
Invisibility is pretty broken, especially when you can cast it on a LoW... really needed errata to only affect infantry.

Damn. Never thought of that.

Creed should grant it to a LoW on T1 though

An invisible revenant is pretty funny, though clearly not something someone should do outside of apoc.

Invisibility and scatterlasers.

A Seer Council with the right configuration and the right powers.

That formation in the SM codex that gives free transports to everything. YOU GET A RAZORBACK! YOU GET A RAZORBACK! EVERYONE GETS A RAZORBACK!

My Wallet

 Desubot wrote:
The Marketing department.


HEY OH!~

Hey i can use this again

One of my friends told me a single Baneblade could take out a 1000 point army. So that's kinda OP.

Brechard wrote:
One of my friends told me a single Baneblade could take out a 1000 point army. So that's kinda OP.

That seems to be an exaggeration from what I've heard.

shyzo wrote:
Chapter Master Smashf*cker with in a Bike Command Squad with lucky rolls on Warlord Traits and Psychic Powers. T5, IWND, 2+/2++/2+ FNP and 4 wounds make him literally immortal.

Well if we're banking on luck, how bout a Chaos lord high on gifts? With enough sorcerers you could spam that table for all kinds of crazy stuff along with the relics. And since your lucky, you won't become a spawn right?
Like a Lord on a jetbike with 6+D6 attacks base, AP3, EW, S5, I6, BS6, 4 Wounds, T5, Shrouded, 2+ re-rollable, 2++ re-rollable, FNP, IWND, Fleshbane, Poisened, Hatred, Fearless, Shred, Instant Death plus the odd other special effect and ranged attack. Who said tzeentch sucks

Scatterbikes with psychic support. Wraithknights. Invisibility. Necron wraiths with RP.

Those are all contenders, but the top is definitely stomp. Ive never been so frustrated at a game in my entire life before that rule was invented. Like really... It's ridiculous. The rule needs to be changed badly.

But I agree with stomp...at the very least it should mimic the thunderblitz table. Multiple S10 AP2 hits is bad enough, but stomp is broken imho. Especially on those new "cheap" super heavies.

The concept of battle bros. The ability to give uniys abilities they were never designed to have pretty much broke the game for me. So that's my definition of OP.

 Jayden63 wrote:
The concept of battle bros. The ability to give uniys abilities they were never designed to have pretty much broke the game for me. So that's my definition of OP.

Solo 2016!

 CrashGordon94 wrote:

Brechard wrote:
One of my friends told me a single Baneblade could take out a 1000 point army. So that's kinda OP.

That seems to be an exaggeration from what I've heard.

It is. I have a better variant of the Baneblade, the Hellhammer.

Not even close. Barely makes its points back when left alone.

Amazed nobody has listed ravenwings reroll on jink. Everyone i have played with it seems to think it is the most broken thing in the game...

 Jazzhands wrote:
Amazed nobody has listed ravenwings reroll on jink. Everyone i have played with it seems to think it is the most broken thing in the game...

No, because that requires jinking.

I used to think that calling something OP was just an excuse for the fact that the army you played couldn't deal with what that type of list. The idea that there was never, or hardly ever a way around a certain list or combo or unit, isn't ever true. Sometimes the game gets very rock-paper-scissory but usually there are armies that can dump on the OP lists everyone runs. I have seen dark eldar lists table spammy monstrous creature lists in 4 turns. Chaos Demons have a whole army meant to mess them up, and it only takes one successful charge to ruin that perfectly placed Tau gunline.

That being said, the fact that some of these formations now just dish out free stuff like t-shirts your freshman year of college, is the most broken thing that I have seen in 10 years of playing the game. An army with 200 more points in it could have 200 points of anything at all because at the end of the day it's still a list that's 200 points better. I don't hate it, because it pushes really fluffy lists to be better than they are. It forces a player to play the variety instead of pulling out 10 clones of one or two units, and that's a welcome change. But free points? Yeah that's crazy

 Xenomancers wrote:

 DanielBeaver wrote:
High strength ranged AP2 weapons are undercosted across the board, and are the single most influential thing that's throwing off game balance. It's what makes Eldar so OP.

They are really only undercosted on hornets and maybe to some extent on war walkers BUT much more so on hornets - I got no problem with war walkers.

I always pay 15points for each Pulse Lasers on my Hornets, because I'm totally convinced that the printed cost is a typo.

Martel732 wrote:

 Jazzhands wrote:
Amazed nobody has listed ravenwings reroll on jink. Everyone i have played with it seems to think it is the most broken thing in the game...

No, because that requires jinking.

RW can jink first turn and shoot normally the 2nd, also bikes are an assault army. Not a shooty one, if youre worried too much about shooting you have done something wrong. You should be shoot, assault, hit and run, repeat.

 Jazzhands wrote:
Amazed nobody has listed ravenwings reroll on jink. Everyone i have played with it seems to think it is the most broken thing in the game...

Stomp doesn't care, you don't even have to be near it.

Wraithknight with a toe in cover. Play some low (500-1000) point games with a wraithknight, and you will come to understand just how over the top they are. Comes complete with stomps!

And yet some people would tell you that you're a scrub if a wraightnight is giving you any trouble at 1000 points lol.

eldar in general

Good players. Why can't GW just ban them already?

invisibility and wraithknight


Automatically Appended Next Post:
this thread needs a poll

shyzo wrote:
Chapter Master Smashf*cker with in a Bike Command Squad with lucky rolls on Warlord Traits and Psychic Powers. T5, IWND, 2+/2++/2+ FNP and 4 wounds make him literally immortal.

He is a very tough beatstick. But what you are describing takes a little luck and 400 points. He can be tarpitted for the same sum quite easily. I have tried to run him often, and he's not really as good as an invisible LoW or D-weapons en masse.


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Brechard wrote:
One of my friends told me a single Baneblade could take out a 1000 point army. So that's kinda OP.

Not really. I have 3 baneblades, they rarely make their points back unless you only meet TAC lists.

Yeah, a basic Baneblade is pretty well balanced. A single Baneblade is going to be about as hard to kill and put out about as much hurt as 3 kitted Leman Russ tanks, and costs about the same.

If you're trying to footslog 1000pts of tactical marines across the board, in the open, against a Baneblade, yeah, it might kill 1000pts worth of stuff. Throw in cover, any sort of speed/deep striking/etc, or other units, and it'll be lucky to make its points back.

Not one thing in particular but the mere fact that some factions have abilities that other factions don't.

Right now giving a unit of space marine heavy weapon the ability to get relentless after moving and other special rules.

Also, giving some units the ability charge after deep striking.

Either allow it to happen across the board or removing it.

 namiel wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Jazzhands wrote:
Amazed nobody has listed ravenwings reroll on jink. Everyone i have played with it seems to think it is the most broken thing in the game...

No, because that requires jinking.

RW can jink first turn and shoot normally the 2nd, also bikes are an assault army. Not a shooty one, if youre worried too much about shooting you have done something wrong. You should be shoot, assault, hit and run, repeat.

RW is certainly not overpowered.

 Johnnytorrance wrote:
Not one thing in particular but the mere fact that some factions have abilities that other factions don't.

Right now giving a unit of space marine heavy weapon the ability to get relentless after moving and other special rules.

Also, giving some units the ability charge after deep striking.

Either allow it to happen across the board or removing it.

I actually like the idea of factions having abilities that other factions don't. Thats what needs to happen to keep armies unique and make people WANT to play more than one faction. I remember when Lance was a rule only on eldar weapons. It made their weaponry unique, now it gets spread around to other groups. When Tau came out, they were the only group with Jet Pack units, that was their unique trait. The problem is the lack of specilization in factions. Right now the only one that has any truly unique rules, that I can think of, is Mechanus has several new rules that are unique to their weapons in 40k, and a few new rules unique to some of their faction members.

What the problem is right now is the uniqueness of several factions is completly gone IMO.

Nocturus wrote:
I actually like the idea of factions having abilities that other factions don't. Thats what needs to happen to keep armies unique and make people WANT to play more than one faction. I remember when Lance was a rule only on eldar weapons. It made their weaponry unique, now it gets spread around to other groups. When Tau came out, they were the only group with Jet Pack units, that was their unique trait. The problem is the lack of specilization in factions. Right now the only one that has any truly unique rules, that I can think of, is Mechanus has several new rules that are unique to their weapons in 40k, and a few new rules unique to some of their faction members.

What the problem is right now is the uniqueness of several factions is completly gone IMO.

You DO realize that is why our faction gets so much gak? The Tau are unique in that they seem to rely almost exclusively on high quality shooting, all of our abilities revolve around that as well. Markerlight abilities like Ignore Cover only reinforce that, but it is the one thing that people are always on about removing.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
Wraithknight.

Enough said.

Grav weapons or lascannons work fine. Seriously people could kill 2 Wraithlords in a turn back in 3rd ed and the game is way heavier on guns now.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
Wraithknight.

Enough said.

Grav weapons or lascannons work fine. Seriously people could kill 2 Wraithlords in a turn back in 3rd ed and the game is way heavier on guns now.

Yes, because every army out there is Marines.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
Wraithknight.

Enough said.

Grav weapons or lascannons work fine. Seriously people could kill 2 Wraithlords in a turn back in 3rd ed and the game is way heavier on guns now.

Yes, because every army out there is Marines.

50% of the armies are. Plus there is allies, and really if you cant drop one you should probably reassess your army. Same goes with imperial knights. Most of my current armies can drop 2 a turn.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
Wraithknight.

Enough said.

Grav weapons or lascannons work fine. Seriously people could kill 2 Wraithlords in a turn back in 3rd ed and the game is way heavier on guns now.

Yes, because every army out there is Marines.

50% of the armies are. Plus there is allies, and really if you cant drop one you should probably reassess your army. Same goes with imperial knights. Most of my current armies can drop 2 a turn.

I have made many an attempt at tailoring to kill armour, and I barely manage a rhino per turn. How. The feth.

Warp dust my friend....warp dust

 Ravenous D wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
Wraithknight.

Enough said.

Grav weapons or lascannons work fine. Seriously people could kill 2 Wraithlords in a turn back in 3rd ed and the game is way heavier on guns now.

Yes, because every army out there is Marines.

50% of the armies are. Plus there is allies, and really if you cant drop one you should probably reassess your army. Same goes with imperial knights. Most of my current armies can drop 2 a turn.

And those 50% of the armies share most of their unit entries, give or take a few special rules. So they actually make up less than 25% of the number of unique units out there.

Necrons

Tau

Space marines

Eldar

Dark Angels

Rerollable Jink saves

Rerollable 2+/2++ saves

Formations

Invisibility

Invisibility

Invisibility

Psychic powers in general

Did I mention Invisibility?

 master of ordinance wrote:

Did I mention Invisibility?

Not nearly enough times.

 Selym wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

Did I mention Invisibility?

Not nearly enough times.

I have a personal hatred of it. My opponent once placed it on a squadron of Vindicators. I was snapshooting them but I couldnt target the Infantry behind them as they still blocked line of sight. Fortunately the Librarian Conclave suffered a terminal existence failure next turn courtesy of a Thunderer and a Leman Russ Battle Tank so al was well and all that.

Invisibility is bad enough but casting it on squadrons of vehicles is just evil...

I don't mind psychic defense too much. In casual games, no one dares use a good invis combo because they aren't jerks. In competitive, I ALWAYS have my culexus at hand.

 Johnnytorrance wrote:
Not one thing in particular but the mere fact that some factions have abilities that other factions don't.

[...]

Either allow it to happen across the board or removing it.

"Make everything the same." ... Yeah 'cause that wouldn't be dull and boring or anything.

13,000 points of Necron warriors is more than evil

Kharne the Befriender wrote:
13,000 points of Necron warriors is more than evil

id rather take 13000 points of death strike missiles.

 Desubot wrote:

Kharne the Befriender wrote:
13,000 points of Necron warriors is more than evil

id rather take 13000 points of death strike missiles.

I'd rather take 13000 points of tesseract vaults

 Selym wrote:


I have made many an attempt at tailoring to kill armour, and I barely manage a rhino per turn. How. The feth.

Meanwhile Tau broadsides with the buffmander can reliably drop 4 a turn.


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DaPino wrote:


And those 50% of the armies share most of their unit entries, give or take a few special rules. So they actually make up less than 25% of the number of unique units out there.

Plus there is cult mechanicus with their Centurion and Haywire troops so there isn't a lot of sympathy there.

And there is allies of convenience, there is no excuse why you cant kill a wraithknight easily other than your own self made, self imposed restrictions.

Reanimation protocol working on instant death and a possiblity of re-roll. It's like facing an army of Space Marine captains with Iron Halos.

Most of the guys at the club are struggling to even get a draw versus the necron player. I hear the same thing all the time. The army does not stay down. The guy usually finishes the games having lost less than 25% of his army.

I had to start resorting to D-Weapons (which I hate having to do) just to have a chance. It lead me to the following conclusion: Screw it....Screw it all. The gloves came off that day and I am not putting them back on. I will field Wraithknights, psykers, flyers with D-Weapons and stop feeling bad about it.

TLTR: I used to be a fluffy laid-back player. Necrons turned me into a remorseless vindinctive Eldar player.

"Meanwhile Tau broadsides with the buffmander can reliably drop 4 a turn."

How? They can kill a maximum of three...

SGTPozy wrote:
"Meanwhile Tau broadsides with the buffmander can reliably drop 4 a turn."

How? They can kill a maximum of three...

I'm guessing Commander with Drone Controller, ignores cover, Twin-linked and Tank hunter upgrades attached to a unit of 3 XV88s with target locks and 2 missile drones each.

So each XV88 shoots at a separate Rhino and the Missile Drones all shoot at the same one which is separate to the XV88 targets.

1 XV88 with missile pods = 4 shots = 3 hits.

S7 vs AV11 = 4+ (0.5 probability) to strip a hull point. With Vehicle Hunters they can re-roll a failed pen roll so the end probability of stripping a hull point is 0.75 per hit.
3 hits = 3*0.75 = 2.25 Hull Points.

SMS = 4 shots = 3 hits.
S5 vs AV11 = 6 to glance (1/6 probability). So 3 hits = 0.5 Hull point

2.25+0.5 = 2.75 Hull Points. That rounds up to 3 and a wrecked Rhino. So it is possible for a Missileside to wreck a Rhino.

The 6 drones will be BS5, twin-linked and tank hunters thanks to drone controller.
So 12 shots, hitting on 2+ and re-rolling misses. Initial rolls = 10 hits.
S7 vs AV11 again so that's 10*0.75 = 7.5 Hull Points (so, one very dead Rhino before we even take into account the 2 misses that can be re-rolled)

So a unit of XV88s with Missile Drones and buffmander can kill 4 Rhinos in one turn.

The Commander+Missileside unit also costs 417 points at the minimum (Commander has no Drones of their own or guns, just the upgrades which give the special rules) compared to the 4 Rhinos 140, so they should be able to do that kind of damage.

So that isn't just the Buffmander and Broadsides then, it's also drones

SGTPozy wrote:
So that isn't just the Buffmander and Broadsides then, it's also drones

The Missile Drones are part of the Broadside unit but yes.

SGTPozy wrote:
"Meanwhile Tau broadsides with the buffmander can reliably drop 4 a turn."

How? They can kill a maximum of three...

Missile drones, its pretty much auto take with broadsides.

 Erik_Morkai wrote:
Reanimation protocol working on instant death and a possiblity of re-roll. It's like facing an army of Space Marine captains with Iron Halos.

Most of the guys at the club are struggling to even get a draw versus the necron player. I hear the same thing all the time. The army does not stay down. The guy usually finishes the games having lost less than 25% of his army.

I had to start resorting to D-Weapons (which I hate having to do) just to have a chance. It lead me to the following conclusion: Screw it....Screw it all. The gloves came off that day and I am not putting them back on. I will field Wraithknights, psykers, flyers with D-Weapons and stop feeling bad about it.

TLTR: I used to be a fluffy laid-back player. Necrons turned me into a remorseless vindinctive Eldar player.

Just to be clear "Reanimation protocol working on instant death and a possibility of re-roll" is not the problem. If anything, it should be that way. What you're having trouble with is the Decurion. Tell him to not use it, and you're golden.

 Ravenous D wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

DaPino wrote:


And those 50% of the armies share most of their unit entries, give or take a few special rules. So they actually make up less than 25% of the number of unique units out there.

Plus there is cult mechanicus with their Centurion and Haywire troops so there isn't a lot of sympathy there.

And there is allies of convenience, there is no excuse why you cant kill a wraithknight easily other than your own self made, self imposed restrictions.

So your arguement boils down to: buy another army.

Well blimey, why didn't I think of that. Next time I crush someone with a highly competitive list, I'll just tell him to feth off because he should have bought a spass muhrine invisible centurion deathstar instead of CSM. That'll teach him for not buying a flavour of the month army every time it gets released.

Are you seriously implying that instead of playing the army they want, people should just buy other armies to have a reasonable chance at dealing with certain things? Give me a fething break. Wanting to play one army instead of multiple is not an unreasonable thing to ask. I would not want to buy daemons in order to not lose when I want to put CSM on the table. Same goes for DE and Eldar.
Sounds like you're more interested in WAAC if that is what you're suggesting.

Your arguement is as solid as helium. You claim that if 50% of the armies can easily deal with something, the thing isn't a problem in the grand scheme of things. well ALL those armies share 1 single trait, a weapon (2 in this instance) that other armies simply don't get. The only non IoM army that has a lascannon is CSM and they've got a grand total of 4 units that can reliably use it, all of which share the HS slot.

So, while lasscannons and grav guns are a decent way of dealing with wraithknights, that does not invalidate the fact that a lot of people genuinely have a hard time dealing with those things. Because those solutions are not open to everyone.

A Town Called Malus,
The Drone Controller does not work on Missile Drones.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Invisibility is probably the most OP thing. It pretty much wins games without effort

shyzo wrote:
Chapter Master Smashf*cker with in a Bike Command Squad with lucky rolls on Warlord Traits and Psychic Powers. T5, IWND, 2+/2++/2+ FNP and 4 wounds make him literally immortal.

Well not literally. 1 wraithcannon rolls a 6 to wound and its gone. D doesn't give a gak about eternal warrior, fnp or invuls.

That's actually why I occasionally take a squad of wraithguard, its the only real counter to high T high save armies. I fight thunderwolf/deathwing knight spam frequently and pre 7th it could easily take 2000+ points in shooting to bring down belial with 10 deathwing knights and a chaplain and it was even harder if I couldn't lower his armor save to 3+ with psychic powers. I wont say that eldar aren't op, but they got some much needed hard counters to obnoxious deathstars that people can tend to abuse.

JinxDragon wrote:
A Town Called Malus,
The Drone Controller does not work on Missile Drones.

Nope it does not. Oops

Never use a buffmander or Missile Drones myself so I forgot.

Well, that'll cut the damage by a bit but not enough to affect the outcome, I imagine.

Redseer wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Invisibility is probably the most OP thing. It pretty much wins games without effort

shyzo wrote:
Chapter Master Smashf*cker with in a Bike Command Squad with lucky rolls on Warlord Traits and Psychic Powers. T5, IWND, 2+/2++/2+ FNP and 4 wounds make him literally immortal.

Well not literally. 1 wraithcannon rolls a 6 to wound and its gone. D doesn't give a gak about eternal warrior, fnp or invuls.

That's actually why I occasionally take a squad of wraithguard, its the only real counter to high T high save armies. I fight thunderwolf/deathwing knight spam frequently and pre 7th it could easily take 2000+ points in shooting to bring down belial with 10 deathwing knights and a chaplain and it was even harder if I couldn't lower his armor save to 3+ with psychic powers. I wont say that eldar aren't op, but they got some much needed hard counters to obnoxious deathstars that people can tend to abuse.

But don't wraitghguard get a -1 so you're never able to get a result of 6 on the Destroyer table?

Only the flamer iteration.

Helps also that destroyer weapons ignore FNP regardless. The wraithcannons being s10 and knock off D3 on a 2-5 is just gravy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DaPino wrote:


So your arguement boils down to: buy another army.

Well blimey, why didn't I think of that. Next time I crush someone with a highly competitive list, I'll just tell him to feth off because he should have bought a spass muhrine invisible centurion deathstar instead of CSM. That'll teach him for not buying a flavour of the month army every time it gets released.

.

Or just turn down the suck, stop being bad a dice and stop bitching about things that counter your gak.

I recently fought a Warhost + regular cad which essentially had 2 wk and 15 wraith guard among compulsory troops n hq while I used my CSM.

I had 3x3 obliterators and a bunch of worthless units such as cultists and drakes.

Turn one I unload 9 lascannons into one wk and it survives with 3 wounds due to me missing a few shots and it making its invulnerability saves. He moves up and shoots stuffs and kills a few of my oblitz and cultists. Turn 2 my drakes comes in and fakls to do much of anything with their flamers since there is so much high toughness and invulnerability saves. I tried to shoot off my 7 assault cannons on my obliterators hoping for rending shots but failed. His turn 2 he charges with his wk and I snap shot off 5 twinlinked meltaguns from 2 squads of oblitz being charged and get a few hits but his darn shiny shield blinds everything within 6" as he makes all his invulnerability saves. His 2 knights had glaives n sun shields and proceeds to strike with 5 Str D attacks and stomp all my ws1 oblitz to death. My oblitz had to hit on 6s due to blind and essentially failed to land any wounds in combat and were out right killed or swept in combat. Only 1 pair of oblitz left being 12" away. All My cultists were sweept in combat. Fearing being tabled, I entered my drakes into hover so they dont go off the board into reserves due to 18" min movement a d 90°. It did not mattered as his remaining wraith guards and wraith lords shot my remaing ground forces of 2 oblitz to death and scatter lasers stripped the hull points off my drakes. It was game over.

So what am I trying to say is, even if you had lascannons, its still not good enough compared to the gladius and grav gun cheese.

Is anyone else shocked that about 70% of this thread lists things that the Eldar get in spades as OP?

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Is anyone else shocked that about 70% of this thread lists things that the Eldar get in spades as OP?

No.

I actually think the decurion isn't that OP, since your damage output is relatively low, and you lose obsec. Last game I played with them, I got thoroughly mauled by Grey Knights - I have no psychic defence, Force weapons get around RP, and a Dreadknight swept my lychguard/zahndrek unit (he got ID'd - Dreadknights are characters so they can challenge - and the rest of the unit ran away).

Eldar, OTOH, are bust in spades. Whoever thought the Wraithknight should be upgraded to a GMC, available in multiples, and cost at least 100pts less than it should do, is a fuckmuppet of the highest order.

zerosignal wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Is anyone else shocked that about 70% of this thread lists things that the Eldar get in spades as OP?

No.

I actually think the decurion isn't that OP, since your damage output is relatively low, and you lose obsec.

Damage output does not matter when you table the other guy because your army does not go down.

Mmm... unkillable footspam.

Reminds me of 5E Plague Marines...

zerosignal wrote:


I actually think the decurion isn't that OP, since your damage output is relatively low,

There really isn't anything wrong with a Decurion's damage output. Sure, it may not be tossing D weapons around, but neither are more other armies. A Decurion is going to be tossing around more than adequate firepower, particularly when it's not degraded at anything near the rate of other armies, and much of it can be put to both anti-personnel and anti-tank use.

and you lose obsec.

Which is a very situational bonus, and doesn't seem big enough to stop 99% of Necron players from running Decurion's exclusively, and there's a reason for that.

Speaking of ObSec. I've never had a game where it mattered in the slightest. I just stick down whatever I want, and get tabled by T3. Unless it's a small game, in which case, I get tabled by T4.

For me, 40k seems to rely a lot more on tabling than objectives.

I've absolutely noticed far more tablings and board wipes in this edition than any other, particularly since paradigm shift in codex design in January.

 Vaktathi wrote:

zerosignal wrote:


I actually think the decurion isn't that OP, since your damage output is relatively low,

There really isn't anything wrong with a Decurion's damage output. Sure, it may not be tossing D weapons around, but neither are more other armies. A Decurion is going to be tossing around more than adequate firepower, particularly when it's not degraded at anything near the rate of other armies, and much of it can be put to both anti-personnel and anti-tank use.

and you lose obsec.

Which is a very situational bonus, and doesn't seem big enough to stop 99% of Necron players from running Decurion's exclusively, and there's a reason for that.

The Decurion's damage output is almost all 24", though.

 Vaktathi wrote:

zerosignal wrote:


I actually think the decurion isn't that OP, since your damage output is relatively low,

There really isn't anything wrong with a Decurion's damage output. Sure, it may not be tossing D weapons around, but neither are more other armies. A Decurion is going to be tossing around more than adequate firepower, particularly when it's not degraded at anything near the rate of other armies, and much of it can be put to both anti-personnel and anti-tank use.

and you lose obsec.

Which is a very situational bonus, and doesn't seem big enough to stop 99% of Necron players from running Decurion's exclusively, and there's a reason for that.

Eh, lately I've started to think that the Decurion isn't really all that OP in the grand scheme of things. With the addition of Admech and friends, Eldar and Space Marines being updated for some reason, 2+ rerollable Jinks, and Imperial Knights running around everywhere, Decurion isn't that bad.

Plus, Sisters, Tau, and Orks still do rather well against Necrons. Even Dark Eldar, depending on the list.