The Adepta Sororitas are one of the most prolific users of special weapons in 40K. They don't get them for FREE like certain War Convocations we won't mention (oops).

The Adepta Sororitas are also very good when they are all able to slap themselves in 8 or 9 Rhinos. Unfortunately not as free a rhino as certain Space Marines we won't mention (oops).

So if the Sisters of Battle gain a digital upgrade to their codex (best case scenario) or a new one with new Formations, which direction might GW go in giving the otherwise somewhat disadvantaged Sisters of Battle a boost?

Would you rather they got a Formation that gives you a Space Marine type armored corps, or would you like to see a "Free special weapons" thing happen instead?

In my games, in the CURRENT codex, the armored approach has been the better one because Sisters of Battle just won't stand up to concentrated fire and with Tau and such... So I lean more to the side of an armored formation.

This is purely guessing, but my money would be on a boost to faith powers, and possible their invul shield. I would prefer this over free stuff.

I suspect they will give them very toned-down and minor formations, like what the IG got.

This is of course under the wild assumption that they will get something at all.

I've always hated the idea of free stuff. It's straight up cheating no matter how you dress it up. Pull this kinda stunt 5 years ago and you'd have been thrown out the room by a bunch of pitchfork weilding screaming Gamers.

I wouldn't be surprised if he goes similar for the space marine route as I'm pretty sure they don't know what sisters are aside from another 3+ armour save.
Personally I'd like to see a massive boost to the faith poweers to be actually miraculous, as it is now is...underwhelming to put it nicely.

I could see the getting unlimited faith powers, or perhaps automatically passing tests.

Yeah i see the point on not liking free stuff being added. I myself dislike it immensely but now its a thing. The enormous difference this makes for a Space Marine force over an Adepta Sororitas force cannot even be put into words. It's such an unfair matchup to put a Battle company against that it's... I dunno. It tests ones ability as a General. Its especially messed up when its Space Wolves who have just become a bit much.

The Acts of Faith thing would be interesting. One difference for sure should be that they could do the powers o nthe enemies turn or just at any time they are in need. That would make a bigger difference than you'd think.

Their "preferred Enemy" prayer for example is only on their turn and so it substantially reduces its usefulness, as they are not often the ones charging for example.

So there are some things they can do on Faith to strengthen them. I should have added that to the list of possibilities.

I wonder what kind of coolness they could give to a Formation of Angels. That would be easy to imagine them doing. Three units of them with Celesting forming a Wing of Angels that gets... the ability to Fire and then spread out? That would help a lot. Perhaps the members of the Formation could have a 6" bubble of Fearless that comes from them like a Halo.

Another one I might imagine is a Formation of three Exorcists which can choose to fire Four missiles instead of rolling and gain the Melta Special Rule. That would be bad ass.

SoBs could have had a really interesting mechanic with Faith and could play differently from Space Marines by having unique relics like the AdMechs, while also having army-wide Zealot.

As for reworking Acts of Faith, it should be something more like a cross between the Blood Tithes and Power from Pain, where it grants you a number of points per turn, which scales with turns and the number of squads you have, and you can spend them on acts. It would have to be balanced out though so you can't spam MSUs to get more points than you should before the correct turn (getting points per model would solve this, as well as making Acts of Faith costing a lot of points).

I've been a fan of each unit's AOF being like the imperial guards orders in a way. Each unit rolls leadership at the start of X phase or player turn to see if they keep their faith going, but once that unit fails it it can't roll again unless something else gives the unit another chance.

I've never been a big fan of the AOF points game because that normally required a sisters player almost forced to take X amount of certain units, loosely like the old necrons phase out rule.

Guaranteed if gw brought out some kind of formation, its involve units no one in their right mind uses. Looking at you repentia and penitent engines. (Unless crons, always penitent engines against crons)

Repentia Sisters? Well... I dunno if i lump them in. Initiative is a BIG issue for Penitent Engines though. Not a death knell... but its not good. I have had three and rarely used them. Its sad.

They suffer from being walkers, and ones that need to get into assault.

I suspect we'll see more sensible changes to their rules (especially for vehicles) when the plastic releases and codex comes around.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
They suffer from being walkers, and ones that need to get into assault.

Space Marine Dreadnoughts (Lascannon plus Fist) are the new black though. Units of two can wreck just about anything they want to and play great as denial. The Penitent Engines old fluff was as tomb guardians, so kinda the same idea. But that Init 3 is just... It makes any other dread it wants to fight a foregone loss for the Penitent Engines. They have got to compensate for that somehow. i mean at least allow them to have grenades or something, I dunno.

Make them monstrous creatures? That'd solve a lot of problems I feel. Oh, give em FNP seeing as they're so hopped up on drugs and stims and all the other psychedelic fun stuff they suffer in those machines.
Heck if a dreadknight can do it, why not a pengine?

Penetint Engines as MC's would suit me fine.

I think changing the PE to the MC type would be a huge help for the unit, but it would also need a save of some sort aside from the 6+ invuln.

Back to the original question though, I'd rather see a few smaller formations and a special FOC that follows our own theme. If we're simply forced into a Battle Company or War Convocation I think that would feel worse than getting another digital-only release.

We need new models, that's a given.

We need a LoW, and Celestine would be a perfect one if she was given EW and maybe a couple other small buffs, such as her resurrection being available anytime she's dead, not just the first time.

I'd like to see another generic HQ choice. Maybe buff the Canoness a bit, increase the cost to match, and bring in the Palatine as a cheaper version. Like how Space Wolves have the Wolf Lord and the Wolf Guard Battle Leader.

We could use some bikes and a flyer, even just one. I could see Dominions on bikes being very powerful, but making assault squads from Celestians on bikes would be fun too, though that doesn't quite fit our army theme.

Celestians need a big change but I'm not sure what kind. They could become our version of Wolf Guard (I play against Wolves a lot) but I don't want to just copy another army for everything.

Repentia are just sad. I actually think if the cost was lowered per model and the squad size went up, then move them to Troops (or make the Mistress an HQ that does that for them) you'd be able to make a really fun themed army. An assault vehicle would really help them but honestly you could just give them a special rule where as long as the unit is comprised only of models with X rule, any vehicle becomes an assault vehicle when they disembark. Give X rule only to Repentia and the Mistress and it wouldn't be terribly powerful, but makes them usable. Their SoF could be adjusted too, make it a 5+ or something.

Our AoF system does need some work but in not sure which direction that needs to go. I see some good from all the suggestions that are usually brought up, but I don't want the system to get too complicated or powerful. I like having to work for my victories.

I know this was long but I honestly think our army doesn't need a complete overhaul, just minor tweaks on certain units and the addition of one or two new ones. Only a couple units actually need a complete makeover, such as Celestians.

Thorned_Lily wrote:
I think changing the PE to the MC type would be a huge help for the unit, but it would also need a save of some sort aside from the 6+ invuln.

Back to the original question though, I'd rather see a few smaller formations and a special FOC that follows our own theme. If we're simply forced into a Battle Company or War Convocation I think that would feel worse than getting another digital-only release.

We need new models, that's a given.

We need a LoW, and Celestine would be a perfect one if she was given EW and maybe a couple other small buffs, such as her resurrection being available anytime she's dead, not just the first time.

I'd like to see another generic HQ choice. Maybe buff the Canoness a bit, increase the cost to match, and bring in the Palatine as a cheaper version. Like how Space Wolves have the Wolf Lord and the Wolf Guard Battle Leader.

We could use some bikes and a flyer, even just one. I could see Dominions on bikes being very powerful, but making assault squads from Celestians on bikes would be fun too, though that doesn't quite fit our army theme.

Celestians need a big change but I'm not sure what kind. They could become our version of Wolf Guard (I play against Wolves a lot) but I don't want to just copy another army for everything.

Repentia are just sad. I actually think if the cost was lowered per model and the squad size went up, then move them to Troops (or make the Mistress an HQ that does that for them) you'd be able to make a really fun themed army. An assault vehicle would really help them but honestly you could just give them a special rule where as long as the unit is comprised only of models with X rule, any vehicle becomes an assault vehicle when they disembark. Give X rule only to Repentia and the Mistress and it wouldn't be terribly powerful, but makes them usable. Their SoF could be adjusted too, make it a 5+ or something.

Our AoF system does need some work but in not sure which direction that needs to go. I see some good from all the suggestions that are usually brought up, but I don't want the system to get too complicated or powerful. I like having to work for my victories.

I know this was long but I honestly think our army doesn't need a complete overhaul, just minor tweaks on certain units and the addition of one or two new ones. Only a couple units actually need a complete makeover, such as Celestians.

I doubt seriously that we would get nor need bikes. Celestians should just be a troops choice. No more trying to make them an elite. its just silly. Make them troops and it would be a pretty decent option.

We used to have another generic HQ: Palatine. and Inquisitiors! No idea why they changed all that. It was dumb. To be fair the Palatine wasn't any good but instead of fixing him, they dumped him. The Canoness is good enough as long as she doesnt have the stupid restriction on Relics.

I havent hated any of the Actso f Faith systems and Im not a fan of change for changes sake. But the Acts of Faith are such a part of the Codex that I think they have to shake it loose a little bit. Just being able to do it oin the enemies turns and little things like that would go a long way. Or make them last for a full round. I dunno. I just dont want another system just because. I want it to be APPRECIABLY better to help us compete with the newest codex's we've seen.


I like Repentia Sisters. I'm really not getting why people hate them. The number of attacks when charging would be good for any unit but their STR 6 Chainfists on top of that volume is quite notable. they go last and so you of course need to lead them with a character, but you're likely doing thatr anyways (plus the one they come with) so I mean, in 7-8 Sister units, they are small enough that they should be able to take out a hard to kill target before they die and soak enough resources to be worth it. Against armored corps, you're sitting pretty. They can truck up behind the Rhinos on their way in and then unleash on a couple rhinos or whatever is sparky enough to come at you.

They are not going to win "unit of the year" awards, but given that Sisters of Battle are going second QUITE often anyways, would you rather be going second on T3, or on T6 Chainfist? Just saying. The armor is the issue most people don't like but with a character and their built in one, you might live to profit from their inclusion. I have even placed Celestine in the unit right before it's time to party.

I agree that Celestians as troops would be fun, but really they don't seem to fill any role we lack. They're just regular sisters with an additional attack and higher LD in smaller (max-sized) squads.

I'm not saying we need bikes, but they wouldn't hurt. I'm not going to be sad when we don't get them, though.

I actually like the Canoness, I just want to see a few more options across the board.

My biggest complaint with Repentia isn't the lack of armor (though I will say I'd like to see something change here, even the SoF boost I mentioned), but the lack of delivery system. You're stuck running across the field or driving across then sitting (hopefully in cover) still because you can't charge. Sure that can be fixed with allies but I like armies without allies and getting a land raider for them makes for a very expensive investment for something that's very likely to die after killing one unit. That said, I regularly use both Repentia and Penitent Engines in my larger lists, and generally do acceptably well with both units.

I'm not saying the current AoF system is necessarily bad, but it could use an update. That could definitely be what brings our army into the 7.5 edition, if done properly. I'm just not sure how.

How about a Sisters of Battle specific Assault vehicle?

WHUUUUUUUUUUt. But yes!

Honestly that would solve more than half the problems with Repentia. I would absolutely love that.

well what if it was a combo kit? Perhaps a modified Rhino with a Land Raider door assembly in the front. Maybe it only fits like 8 non-bulky figs at a time or something, and is designed pretty specifically to deliver the assaulty units of the Sisters?

Such a vehicle could become popular enough that people start allying Sisters in just to get access.

Perhaps it would be a gift from the Adeptus Mechanicus in exchangefor (fill in the blank fluff we add to show them saving some kind of important machinery becasue Gawd knows it wouldnt be for saving any of their people cause they just dont care about people).

Would you pay 110 points for one? I probably would. Rhino Armor but assault? Sure.

I don't want inquisition back in the sisters book. Though the book needs a bit of work, decoupling an Inquisitor and warbands from any other tax units is something I've waited years for.

WHAT? Inquisition should absolutely be a part of the church. Its silly that its not!

I fail to see why, as a back ground they are not the same organization, they have separate leadership and structures. Sisters may be the chamber militant of one branch of the inquisition but they are a separate faction. They should be able to ally together of course, but I don't want to be forced to take ecclesiarchy unit's in an inquisitor army.

I'd like to see:

Some more actaul Sisters characters - there are several candidates in Shield of Baal.
Flyer - Valykrie or similar. They have their own starships so air transport is not unlikely
Drop pods - in the older fluff, bring it back - GW likes older stuff rediscovered
Superheavy - friends wife has a awesome Baneblade conversion
Novices
Female priests
Assault vehicle

I'd quite like something to represent who sorts out the repair and maintance of their vehicles etc

Side note: what gun would we strap on an assault vehicle if they did this? i suppose we could make it a fast vehicle at 110 points. Raiders are 80 and open topped. Same as an immolator?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I fail to see why, as a back ground they are not the same organization, they have separate leadership and structures. Sisters may be the chamber militant of one branch of the inquisition but they are a separate faction. They should be able to ally together of course, but I don't want to be forced to take ecclesiarchy unit's in an inquisitor army.

You werent "forced" to before. So nothing changes other than the stupid fluff separation.

Under the fifth edition greyknights yes I was. The only way to fill a proper force org was to use a special character. Even in the old paper sisters codex, to take an inquisitor as a stand alone you still needed to take units of storm troopers aka a tax unit. I'm not sure how they were before that but you could not take a lone inquisitor as an ally.

Only under the most recent codex can I take a lone inquisitor and if i choose a few war bands and transports.

No. Witch Hunters did not require an inquisitor. At all.

Eh? You never needed to take Inq. Stormtroopers to take an Inquisitor in the Witch Hunter book - you could take an Elites slot Inquisitor on his own with no warband or any other taxes.

Also, Jancoran - you realise that you can use the BSS' Preferred Enemy AoF in the shooting phase, right?

As for what I'd add, formation wise... to put the army on par with the Free Stuff formations?

Shared Acts of Faith - the entire detachment permanently has all Acts of Faith active if that Act of Faith is provided by a unit in the formation. So as long as there is at least one Dominion model in the detachment, all models have Ignores Cover. As long as there's at least one Seraphim in the detachment, all models have Shred. Etc.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Eh? You never needed to take Inq. Stormtroopers to take an Inquisitor in the Witch Hunter book - you could take an Elites slot Inquisitor on his own with no warband or any other taxes.

Also, Jancoran - you realise that you can use the BSS' Preferred Enemy AoF in the shooting phase, right?

As for what I'd add, formation wise... to put the army on par with the Free Stuff formations?

Shared Acts of Faith - the entire detachment permanently has all Acts of Faith active if that Act of Faith is provided by a unit in the formation. So as long as there is at least one Dominion model in the detachment, all models have Ignores Cover. As long as there's at least one Seraphim in the detachment, all models have Shred. Etc.

yes. I know you can. Did I say something that made you think otherwise? if so, disregard that snippet or whatever it was. Lol.

I think army-wide ignores cover while the Dominion are alive would be kinda crazy. I like that you can have access to Ignores Cover here and there but overall, I think its too prolific and certain armies suffer terribly if they have tyo run a tournament gauntlet of THREE armies that have copious access. I want the Sisters to compete, not piss people off. Lol.

Well, its not like it would last very long - Dominions are too vital to our early game to try and save them at the back just to keep the power alive.

The alternative is to limit it to "the whole detachment gains the ability on the turn it is activated", instead of just "always on while the unit's alive"

I think the best (and safest) method to update the Sisters would be through a campaign book. A selection of formations making our less useful units more viable, while avoiding wholesale changes to what I think is a very intuitive and uncluttered codex. I just don't trust GW's writers to not feth stuff up these days!

 the_Armyman wrote:
I think the best (and safest) method to update the Sisters would be through a campaign book. A selection of formations making our less useful units more viable, while avoiding wholesale changes to what I think is a very intuitive and uncluttered codex. I just don't trust GW's writers to not feth stuff up these days!

Exactly this! Something along the lines of the Kauyon treatment for Raven Guard would be great. In my opinion there are only the few sub par units in the Dex (PE's, Repentia, Celestians, Canoness) that just need a few small tweeks that formations could easily fix.

PE's and Repentia formation that allows them to get across the table quickly and get stuck in while allowing for a bit more durability while doing so. PE's with shrouded, Repentia with a specific allowance for them to assault from a non assault vehicle, its not like we want them to assault from deep strike on turn one. Throw in increased fnp or allow a +1 to their invuln.

Celestian formation that grants holy ammunition that ignores cover, armor bane/flesh bane and increases their invuln save by 1.

Canoness would benefit greatly from increased availability of relics ideally with a few new ones, use of a jump pack and a leadership position in a lot of the formations. Allowing the units within a formation to use their act of faith each turn while the attached canoness is alive fits with the fluff. Perhaps allowing different types of units in a formation to all use one of the units acts of faith. Retributors coupled with a few battle sister squads to allow the canoness to give them all the retributors rend would be lots of fun.

Allowing the Canoness within formations to modify the acts of faith rules would allow the current acts to remain as they are just with increased usage and customization.

It's bizarre there weren't formations for SoB it that Shield of Baal book.

I like the Rhino so I'd be ok with an assault version, but honestly I think just giving the Repentia a special rule to allow them to assault out of vehicles (maybe just ones from our codex to avoid turn 1 assault from allied drop pods, and limit it to only if no other characters join to avoid things pulling a beat stick from another codex in) would be preferable to getting a cheap assault vehicle of our own. I don't want to be the codex that people take minimum units from just for access to cheap assault vehicles.

I didn't play when we had Witch Hunters but I wouldn't mind too much if we went back to having the Inquisition units available without allies. At the same time though I feel like it would make it easier for GW to avoid ever putting more Sisters or Inquisition units into the individual books. So in the end I'd prefer to keep the two factions separate.

Basically I want our codex to be this book that's competitive in the right hands but also has flavor that lends itself to playing fun, fluffy games without crushing your opponent. Yeah that's a lot to ask, but I feel like that's what every codex should be.

If SoB get an assault rhino, and Chaos doesn't, there would be a riot

Gamers always riot so I am unconcerned with that element.

They need to sell SoB worse.

 Jancoran wrote:
The Adepta Sororitas are one of the most prolific users of special weapons in 40K. They don't get them for FREE like certain War Convocations we won't mention (oops).

The Adepta Sororitas are also very good when they are all able to slap themselves in 8 or 9 Rhinos. Unfortunately not as free a rhino as certain Space Marines we won't mention (oops).

So if the Sisters of Battle gain a digital upgrade to their codex (best case scenario) or a new one with new Formations, which direction might GW go in giving the otherwise somewhat disadvantaged Sisters of Battle a boost?

Would you rather they got a Formation that gives you a Space Marine type armored corps, or would you like to see a "Free special weapons" thing happen instead?

In my games, in the CURRENT codex, the armored approach has been the better one because Sisters of Battle just won't stand up to concentrated fire and with Tau and such... So I lean more to the side of an armored formation.

A universal 5 point drop would be where I would start but w/e
Firstly, make shield of faith work like reanimation protocols (keeping it on vehicles, no way to reduce it even strength D-6 rolls, get invul/cover/FNP on top), Then have the big decurion bonus be +1 to shield of faith, +6" range to melta weaponry, +1 strength to templates.
Then have a formation with basic sisters, a canoness, a sororitas command squad(New AOF is relentless), w/e else, and have it make multi-meltas Salvo1/3 also Obsec. So a sororitas command squad in an immolator would have 18 30" range melta shots, 3 of them twin linked, after moving 12 inches for the squad, 6 for the tank.
Another formation with celestine Seraphim and retirbutors gives all template weapons torrent.
Throw in Free Flakk Missiles on Exorcists and call it a day, for mech at least.

Also repentia should be on bikes.


For blob sisters you'd need a whole seperate set of crap but I only really play mech soo...

I'd like to see a formation that lets immolators, create witch burning pyres. One part hurt psyker casting, one part create dangerous terrain, one part score a victory point if you kill a psyker next to the pyre.

ERJAK wrote:

A universal 5 point drop would be where I would start but w/e

... You want Seven point models that are basically Space Marines, slightly more vulnerable to small arms, but much more resilient to heavy weapons?

You realise that a universal 5 point drop would make even Repentia cheaper per model than Guardsmen, right?

Like I said, a full-on assault Rhino would be a bit much but a special rule just for Repentia I think would be fair. CSM units that want to charge out of rhinos generally have a 3+ save, so they can usually weather a round of shooting before the charge.

I could see a point reduction across the board but 5 points less per model is too much. Torrent on certain models would be great too, and fit our theme, but not on everything. Immolators maybe, AoF for it on retributors or something, but not on regular Sisters or Seraphim. Hand flamers just wouldn't have that kind of power. Repentia on bikes doesn't make much sense, I think. Dominions could make it work but a squad that's designed specifically to be a suicide squad, where they won't even spend the resources to give them armor, certainly wouldn't be worth giving bikes.

What you're suggesting makes us as bad as Tau or Eldar. I want to win because I'm a better strategist, not because I have an army of scatter bikes with reanimation protocols.

Yoyoyo wrote:
It's bizarre there weren't formations for SoB it that Shield of Baal book.

Yep - it was - an great opportunity missed..............

The biggest obstacle to seeing any movement on rules for the Sisters is models. GW writes rules to move product, and there's no interest in writing rules for an all metal faction. Why write a formation for Immolators when they don't sell Immolators anymore?

 the_Armyman wrote:
The biggest obstacle to seeing any movement on rules for the Sisters is models. GW writes rules to move product, and there's no interest in writing rules for an all metal faction. Why write a formation for Immolators when they don't sell Immolators anymore?

Well they aren't going to sell any if they don't make any too. Of course if the rules were worth much maybe they would have sold more. Its a vicious cycle. I must own 11 of the things plus 5 Exorcists. How many more do I need to buy before we start getting new models. As a marine player I don't even own that many other rhino chassis vehicles.

 Jancoran wrote:
Gamers always riot so I am unconcerned with that element.

They need to sell SoB worse.

The answer is obvious: Give them mutilators!

They will be unstoppable.

You're so optimistic. Why would we get anything at all?

So... is this a discussion on what formation bonuses you'd give to the existing sisters army? Or are we venturing into another sororitas wish list thread?

Because I do like sororitas wish list threads, they're awesome when they aren't awful.

As for formations for the existing army though, there's a fundamental problem: formations are fairly transparent gimmicks to sell models, and Games Workshop has made it very clear they don't want to sell more sororitas models.

As it stands I'd presume none of these formations would feature the immolator, so the requisite mismatched vehicle formation can only really be exorcists that need to stay within close proximity of a penitent engine for some reason.

I could also see a terrifyingly squishy squad of 5 priests being a thing. Faith point battery?

I imagine you will get something like 'Vengeance squads', super-OP jump infantry with scatterless deep strike and Torrent flame weapons, but because they appear as miracles to avenge fallen SoB forces they can't appear unless the rest of your army is dead. And due to a RAW error (oddly reinforced by a FAQ) that means they can never arrive because by then you have already autolost via tabling.

It seems like just the kind of thing you would receive for your long wait.

 andrewm9 wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:
The biggest obstacle to seeing any movement on rules for the Sisters is models. GW writes rules to move product, and there's no interest in writing rules for an all metal faction. Why write a formation for Immolators when they don't sell Immolators anymore?

Well they aren't going to sell any if they don't make any too. Of course if the rules were worth much maybe they would have sold more. Its a vicious cycle. I must own 11 of the things plus 5 Exorcists. How many more do I need to buy before we start getting new models. As a marine player I don't even own that many other rhino chassis vehicles.

In GW's eyes, you don't matter. Unless you plan on buying MOAR!!

 Furyou Miko wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

A universal 5 point drop would be where I would start but w/e

... You want Seven point models that are basically Space Marines, slightly more vulnerable to small arms, but much more resilient to heavy weapons?

You realise that a universal 5 point drop would make even Repentia cheaper per model than Guardsmen, right?

I think he must be joking.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Captain Joystick wrote:
So... is this a discussion on what formation bonuses you'd give to the existing sisters army? Or are we venturing into another sororitas wish list thread?

Because I do like sororitas wish list threads, they're awesome when they aren't awful.

As for formations for the existing army though, there's a fundamental problem: formations are fairly transparent gimmicks to sell models, and Games Workshop has made it very clear they don't want to sell more sororitas models.

As it stands I'd presume none of these formations would feature the immolator, so the requisite mismatched vehicle formation can only really be exorcists that need to stay within close proximity of a penitent engine for some reason.

I could also see a terrifyingly squishy squad of 5 priests being a thing. Faith point battery?

Priests are really good. They help a lot when you want to put boots on the ground and play less armored corps.

 Jancoran wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

A universal 5 point drop would be where I would start but w/e

... You want Seven point models that are basically Space Marines, slightly more vulnerable to small arms, but much more resilient to heavy weapons?

You realise that a universal 5 point drop would make even Repentia cheaper per model than Guardsmen, right?

I think he must be joking.

I meant for the squad total, not per model i.e. Basic sisters go from 65 to 60, Celestine goes to 130, Seraphim to 70 etc, any changes like biker repentia would add points back on from that amount. I would drop most models added after the initial squad cost 2 points but that's only to get even numbers, sick of being at 1497 or w/e.

So I just want a special detachment that gives the following command benefits:

-Acts of Faith may be used every turn instead of once per game.

-Units in this detachment are treated as LD10 for purposes of passing Acts of Faith.

That would be awesome and GW could spike their sales by adding the silly taxes like all other Decurion-esque detachments. Other tweaks would be nice but not necessary.

 Jancoran wrote:

Priests are really good. They help a lot when you want to put boots on the ground and play less armored corps.

Yes. And burying them in a unit to soak up wounds contributes to that effectiveness. Ethereals benefit the same way, and GW opted to give them a formation that makes them a more important target while simultaneously making it easier to kill them.

 Captain Joystick wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

Priests are really good. They help a lot when you want to put boots on the ground and play less armored corps.

Yes. And burying them in a unit to soak up wounds contributes to that effectiveness. Ethereals benefit the same way, and GW opted to give them a formation that makes them a more important target while simultaneously making it easier to kill them.

Which is why I don't trust them to give us a good codex. I'd rather they just leave us alone than feth everything up.

I don't see how they can make anything worse. The current codex is kinda meh and model range needs a dark eldar style reboot.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I don't see how they can make anything worse. The current codex is kinda meh and model range needs a dark eldar style reboot.

Then you have never actually tried playing with the current codex. We're firmly middle tier.

By that definition, almost all are. I can't name more than three codex's that are "scary" in comparison. Sisters of Battle have won me more tournaments than any other army. True story. And in case you're wondering, that number is not low. =)

I meant Meh in the sense that I don't see much variety and uniqueness compared to what I envision a rebooted sisters codex can be.

I agree that the army is able to compete well these days but I feel that this army along with tyranids and chaos marines are a book that GW has never gotten right.

well... Variety is cool. I'm not sure its entirely necessary. But they had that variety as Witch Hunters.

I'd love to see more priest/ church units in the book, perhaps some sort of loyalist version of cultists that represent a mob of frateris militia

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I'd love to see more priest/ church units in the book, perhaps some sort of loyalist version of cultists that represent a mob of frateris militia

Return Redemptionists to us!

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I'd love to see more priest/ church units in the book, perhaps some sort of loyalist version of cultists that represent a mob of frateris militia

I suppose but how would you really make them different enough or with a different enough role?

Celestians are an assault type unit. They make sesne as an alternate choice in the troops slot. Once tyou have two troops choices, what does a third do for you? The Tau Empire have three now, but that variety added just a little not a lot.

The Sisters of Battle might benefit from having Inquisitorial Storm Troopers back. THAT is a different enough choice that I see it as worth it. I converted two Chimeras to be Sisters of Battle specific and was quite annoyed when they were dropped from Witch Hunters. I liked having them available. The Chimera itself was useful as mobile cover as well and AV 12 is a big deal. It changes the math significantly and slims the list of potential threats significantly. Its not the be all end all by for 55 points or whatever... Psh. Plus the IG are a natural fit for who else would the Sisters of Battle be most needed to bolster the onfield faith if not the hammer of the emperor as they face a ravening galaxy full of horrors?

a ton of codex's have two or less troops choices. Celestians would make that as complete as it needs to be probably. But Storm Troopers or IG would make sense too. I dunno. I really like their troops as they stand being Sisters of Battle. Pretty cool.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 pretre wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I'd love to see more priest/ church units in the book, perhaps some sort of loyalist version of cultists that represent a mob of frateris militia

Return Redemptionists to us!

As elite? or troops? Or a non slot?

Troops, like they were previously.

I don't know if I like celestians as troops with out massive changes to the squad. The bump up they have over sisters is a slightly better leadership and an extra attack. Neither really helps the squad much.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I don't know if I like celestians as troops with out massive changes to the squad. The bump up they have over sisters is a slightly better leadership and an extra attack. Neither really helps the squad much.

Celestians as troops is very 5th edition and not terribly helpful.

Redemptionists as troops and Celestians able to buy CC focused wargear on the other hand.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I don't know if I like celestians as troops with out massive changes to the squad. The bump up they have over sisters is a slightly better leadership and an extra attack. Neither really helps the squad much.

If you're going to have two troops, make them have different roles. In the case of Celestians, close combat that costs less than the amped up Battle Conclave and the Repentia, while being Obsec. I think thats not a terrible thing at all.

Give them a Pistol + CCW and they would get 4 on the charge. That would certainly be an interesting edition. No wierder than Scorpions getting the same thing (essentially, with Mandiblasters). Imagine a unit almost as good as Scorpions but with Obsec. pretty cool.

I'm still underwhelmed, especially since they don't have a cheap assault transport. 4 ap- attacks at strength three is meh. Scorpions have a better gun, better initiative, a better melee weapon, and access to a much better character.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I'm still underwhelmed, especially since they don't have a cheap assault transport. 4 ap- attacks at strength three is meh. Scorpions have a better gun, better initiative, a better melee weapon, and access to a much better character.

And, even though I love them, still don't see much play

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I'm still underwhelmed, especially since they don't have a cheap assault transport.

Yeah but we're positing that they DO!

So an assault vehicle and some Celestians? models sold! YES

What's weird is people try to point at Celestian statlines and claim that they're making Celestians in to a shootier unit than before. Which is laughable. The only stat that got increased was base number of attacks. It's not that GW doesn't want them to be an assault unit. It's that GW doesn't know what the hell they want with them to begin with. There's no coherent design decision involved.

I don't think they are idiots like some people here. Clearly they do this for a living and are thinking about more than JUST the on board stuff. But in the end someone is making the final decisions and I am guessing that a lot of good ideas have been thrown away via veto. In the case of the Sisters of Battle, they let Matt Ward have something to do withthem in the White Dwarf, mistake number one, and number two was that they then didn't have the resources to do a truly comprehensive treatment of Sisters of Battle. So I guess I give them a little bit of a pass because if sales justified it, they WOULD get a full treatment.

Its up to us to get the Sisters going and while they don't hawk this thread and a hundred like it, I am sure they aren't completely def. It can only help us to have the discussion.

I think SoB will be much more likely to happen if they were to be paired up with the ecclesiarchy in the same way Skitarii and Cult Mechanicus are... GW seems to have a fear of doing an all female army but there are enough appropriate elements from the Ecchlisiarchy to mitigate that concern. Redemptionists, like above, being a good example.

I still want to see SoB get super heavy tank mobile cathedrals.

 Jancoran wrote:
I don't think they are idiots like some people here. Clearly they do this for a living and are thinking about more than JUST the on board stuff. But in the end someone is making the final decisions and I am guessing that a lot of good ideas have been thrown away via veto. In the case of the Sisters of Battle, they let Matt Ward have something to do withthem in the White Dwarf, mistake number one, and number two was that they then didn't have the resources to do a truly comprehensive treatment of Sisters of Battle. So I guess I give them a little bit of a pass because if sales justified it, they WOULD get a full treatment.

Its up to us to get the Sisters going and while they don't hawk this thread and a hundred like it, I am sure they aren't completely def. It can only help us to have the discussion.

Seriously?
There is no reason to insult people. Especially people who are critical of GW for how certain armies/units get treated.
I might not often agree with Melissa, but she's certainly right in this instance. Even if she wasn't, you shouldn't insult other people like this. Every fan of 40k has at least one axe to grind when it comes to gw anyway

Akiasura wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
I don't think they are idiots like some people here. Clearly they do this for a living and are thinking about more than JUST the on board stuff. But in the end someone is making the final decisions and I am guessing that a lot of good ideas have been thrown away via veto. In the case of the Sisters of Battle, they let Matt Ward have something to do withthem in the White Dwarf, mistake number one, and number two was that they then didn't have the resources to do a truly comprehensive treatment of Sisters of Battle. So I guess I give them a little bit of a pass because if sales justified it, they WOULD get a full treatment.

Its up to us to get the Sisters going and while they don't hawk this thread and a hundred like it, I am sure they aren't completely def. It can only help us to have the discussion.

Seriously?
There is no reason to insult people. Especially people who are critical of GW for how certain armies/units get treated.
I might not often agree with Melissa, but she's certainly right in this instance. Even if she wasn't, you shouldn't insult other people like this. Every fan of 40k has at least one axe to grind when it comes to gw anyway

I think he was saying "I don't think they're idiots like some people think."

 MWHistorian wrote:

Akiasura wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
I don't think they are idiots like some people here. Clearly they do this for a living and are thinking about more than JUST the on board stuff. But in the end someone is making the final decisions and I am guessing that a lot of good ideas have been thrown away via veto. In the case of the Sisters of Battle, they let Matt Ward have something to do withthem in the White Dwarf, mistake number one, and number two was that they then didn't have the resources to do a truly comprehensive treatment of Sisters of Battle. So I guess I give them a little bit of a pass because if sales justified it, they WOULD get a full treatment.

Its up to us to get the Sisters going and while they don't hawk this thread and a hundred like it, I am sure they aren't completely def. It can only help us to have the discussion.

Seriously?
There is no reason to insult people. Especially people who are critical of GW for how certain armies/units get treated.
I might not often agree with Melissa, but she's certainly right in this instance. Even if she wasn't, you shouldn't insult other people like this. Every fan of 40k has at least one axe to grind when it comes to gw anyway

I think he was saying "I don't think they're idiots like some people think."

If that's the case I'll apologize for going off, but people on these forums are quick to insult others for holding an opinion they don't agree with way too much

Assuming no models (because lol.... ), I'd like to see the following.

Battle Sisters get a 1ppm reduction.

Celestians have the option to upgrade all models to cheap Power Weapons like Vanguard Veterans, or to grab special/heavy weapons on all models like CSM Havocs. Essentially they are the toolkit unit of the codex, representing their Elite nature. Their Act of Faith changes from Furious Charge to a "+1S on all shooting and melee attacks for this phase".

Penitent Engines get to move 12" in the movement phase, ignore the effects of Difficult Terrain (but at the cost of having to make Dangerous Terrain checks) and get +1 Initiative on the turn they charge.

Repentia get FNP back as standard, and their Act of Faith changes to make them act like Beasts for the movement phase (ie move 12" and get Move Through Cover rule).

Cannoness drops 15points to 50. Currently she's the same price as a Chaos Lord, with the same wargear and a worse stat line... She also gets 2+ armour and jump pack options and the ability to take multiple relics. Her Act of Faith changes from Hatred (which is already readily available from Priests) to something that gives an area buff. Maybe Fearless to units within 12" until the start of her next turn?

Repressors and Avenger Strike Fighters get added into the codex.

Give Celestians back their WS4/I4 and let them take power weapons

I'm ok with the WS 4, but not stock marine speed. Perhaps change their act of faith to be like the old school furious charge, plus one strength and Initiative for a round.

If you want to talk old school, they used to be able to be I6 for a phase.

I miss that old faith chart. The good ole days of charging that deathstar and pulling out the s5 ap1 attacks and 3++ out of nowhere. Or that bss veteran blowing up that monolith in one round of combat. That's kinda the level of faith shenanigans I'd like to see again. Truly miraculous spit take worthy faith.

Edit:

Come to think of it, adding in a miracle mechanic would be cool. Keep the faith to minor little buffs, but for each faith test passed, sisters army gain a miracle point/pool that can be used for the truly miraculous.

Then again, that would involve gw having to implement a new mechanic, that'd be work.

Ahhh, I can dream...

Giantwalkingchair wrote:
I miss that old faith chart. The good ole days of charging that deathstar and pulling out the s5 ap1 attacks and 3++ out of nowhere. Or that bss veteran blowing up that monolith in one round of combat. That's kinda the level of faith shenanigans I'd like to see again. Truly miraculous spit take worthy faith.

Reroll able 5++ and the other shenanigans means you can still do some crazy crap.

Rerollable 5++ saves are also kind of lazy and boring. The kind of thing you'd give to a variant Marine army instead of something you'd give to a full blown unique force.

 Melissia wrote:
Give Celestians back their WS4/I4 and let them take power weapons

Celestians are already WS4. But yes, they probably should get I4 - if Inquisitors and a Guard Sergeant can have I4, then the elite of the already elite Battle Sisters should too. Then again, if you take Power Axes (which are probably the superior option even if you are I4) then Initiative is somewhat meaningless.

Akiasura wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
I don't think they are idiots like some people here. Clearly they do this for a living and are thinking about more than JUST the on board stuff. But in the end someone is making the final decisions and I am guessing that a lot of good ideas have been thrown away via veto. In the case of the Sisters of Battle, they let Matt Ward have something to do withthem in the White Dwarf, mistake number one, and number two was that they then didn't have the resources to do a truly comprehensive treatment of Sisters of Battle. So I guess I give them a little bit of a pass because if sales justified it, they WOULD get a full treatment.

Its up to us to get the Sisters going and while they don't hawk this thread and a hundred like it, I am sure they aren't completely def. It can only help us to have the discussion.

Seriously?
There is no reason to insult people. Especially people who are critical of GW for how certain armies/units get treated.
I might not often agree with Melissa, but she's certainly right in this instance. Even if she wasn't, you shouldn't insult other people like this. Every fan of 40k has at least one axe to grind when it comes to gw anyway

Whose Melissa and what in the world are you talking about. I didn't insult anyone (except Matt Ward0

Take 3 squads of ten repentia and they all gain the fear USR.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Take 3 squads of ten repentia and they all gain the fear USR.

Who would the cash for 30 repentia?

Fear? Fear is...unimpressive. Not ueless but... I wouldnt take an entire 30 just for that.

SO any thought to exorcist in vehicle squadrons? I'd say just 1-2 and not the 1-3 norm.

Penitent Engine Talon...
(My idea for a Penitent Engine formation below)
1-3 Penitent Engine Talons

Formation Bonus
Venerable (applied to all)
If 2 or More Penitent Engines charge the same unit, they gain RAGE and HATRED (Everything) for that turn
If they destroy the unit in the first turn of an assault (including Sweeping Advance) They gain those rules for the rest of the game AND they get HoW (only the ones in the combat, not all of them)

TL flamer/melta bikes. Forward through a sea of burning promethium.

Also turn Acts of Faith back into a resource you can direct as needed instead of just giving each squad a minifeat that locks them harder into a single role.

A formation to give Penitent Engines Rage and HoW would be a completely wasted opportunity. They already have Rage, and as walkers they already have HoW. The Hatred change would be useful for when you charge big groups, but honestly I run a squad of 3 engines and even considering the fact that at least one gets immobilized/killed by the time I hit combat generally they kill anything they're aimed at. So Hatred doesn't feel as necessary as other changes to them, such as becoming MC type.

 Jancoran wrote:

Akiasura wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
I don't think they are idiots like some people here. Clearly they do this for a living and are thinking about more than JUST the on board stuff. But in the end someone is making the final decisions and I am guessing that a lot of good ideas have been thrown away via veto. In the case of the Sisters of Battle, they let Matt Ward have something to do withthem in the White Dwarf, mistake number one, and number two was that they then didn't have the resources to do a truly comprehensive treatment of Sisters of Battle. So I guess I give them a little bit of a pass because if sales justified it, they WOULD get a full treatment.

Its up to us to get the Sisters going and while they don't hawk this thread and a hundred like it, I am sure they aren't completely def. It can only help us to have the discussion.

Seriously?
There is no reason to insult people. Especially people who are critical of GW for how certain armies/units get treated.
I might not often agree with Melissa, but she's certainly right in this instance. Even if she wasn't, you shouldn't insult other people like this. Every fan of 40k has at least one axe to grind when it comes to gw anyway

Whose Melissa and what in the world are you talking about. I didn't insult anyone (except Matt Ward0

I misread what you wrote (see bolded) and apologize then.
Melissa is the person you are talking to?

Her name is Mellissia. He's being pedantic because you annoyed him.

would it be wrong if i just run a Sob army with a SM codex?

No. Do it.

Yes. Don't do it.

Oberron wrote:
SO any thought to exorcist in vehicle squadrons? I'd say just 1-2 and not the 1-3 norm.

Why not 1-3?

 LordRahl wrote:
would it be wrong if i just run a Sob army with a SM codex?

Not really. I'm a fan of count-as.

At this point I'd just say go with it, given how out of date the actual army basically is. Even when our "codex" was new, it was still old.

Who all has joined the Facebook to get the Sisters of Battle players mobilized to a major tournament?

 Jancoran wrote:
Who all has joined the Facebook to get the Sisters of Battle players mobilized to a major tournament?

For what purpose? GW is gonna ignore the army regardless.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Who all has joined the Facebook to get the Sisters of Battle players mobilized to a major tournament?

For what purpose? GW is gonna ignore the army regardless.

For the purpose of showing everyone that we're awesome, duh.

Don't be such a negative nancy. Not everything's about Games bloody Workshop.

I'm really not into the negativity that surrounds some peoples opinions of the game.

My basic philosophy that underlies a lot of what I say is this: If you don't like playing 40K, stop.

Adepta Sororitas are a ton of fun to play and I think a significant price drop and a plastic model would probably get a lot of people doing it. Many people have CLAIMED they would play if that happened.

In the meantime a stronger showing at events would ALSO encourage more. And that is something we CAN control.

So i say we control it and put up a good showing.

 Jancoran wrote:
I'm really not into the negativity that surrounds some peoples opinions of the game.

My basic philosophy that underlies a lot of what I say is this: If you don't like playing 40K, stop.

Not to stomp all over your preconceived notions, but some of us enjoy 40K but hate they way the company peddling it behaves. We're willing to forgive, but we won't let people forget that the game and hobby weren't always like they are now.

 the_Armyman wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
I'm really not into the negativity that surrounds some peoples opinions of the game.

My basic philosophy that underlies a lot of what I say is this: If you don't like playing 40K, stop.

Not to stomp all over your preconceived notions, but some of us enjoy 40K but hate they way the company peddling it behaves. We're willing to forgive, but we won't let people forget that the game and hobby weren't always like they are now.

And i on the other hand have tried not to preoccupy my mind with the company because frankly, i don't care.

I dont play this game because of them nor in spite of them. I play it because the models kick arse and the game is fun.

What they did with Fantasy was terribad but I can't undo it now. so right now is all I can worry about. They paid for their mistake a lot more than any of us in the grand scheme and as Kings of War and Pathfinder have shown, there's always someone ready to take the torch up if they die.

So for now: we want to gather the Sisters of Battle players and have some fun.

Sorry to get back on topic but I have to say after reading a number of the proposed improvements, I think you guys aren't really daring to dream big enough. I don't want the sisters of battle to be good, i want them to be HATED. I want a player to show up to an 1850 tournament with a netlisted screamerstar that's secretly 2k points total, with a special permission slip from Reece and Frankie themselves saying that he and he alone can use full invis and full 2++ rerollable, to see 1 Immolator, pack his gak and go home. So here is a proposed rule change to start it off.

Saint Celestine 200pts

WS 7 BS 7 S 7 T 7 W 7 I 7 A 7 LD 10 2+ 4+; USRs: Eternal Warrior, fear, Fearless, IC, H&R, FNP, IWND; Wargear: bolt pistol, grenades, The Argent Blade(STR+2 AP1 Master Crafted, STR6 AP4 Torrent Template Rending) JumpPack

Warlord Trait: You Cannot Hide From The Eyes of the Emperor!: Enemy units within 18" of Saint Celestine do not benefit from any modifiers to cover saves, I.E. Stealth, Shrouded, Gone to Ground, Camo Cloaks.

Special Rules:
Beacon Eternal: Reduce the strength of all shooting and melee attacks made against this model and her unit by 1. If targeted by a destroyer weapon, reduce the roll on the destroyer table by 2. Is immune to stomp attacks.
From the Heavens: Saint Celestine adds +6 to her Movement, Run, and Charge distances is immune to difficult and dangerous terrain.
These are The Emperor's Skies!: Celestine can charge flyers as if they were a land vehicle and can never be affected by a Crash and Burn! blast.
In Our Darkest Moment: If Saint Celestine is your warlord, her mere presence inspires even greater faith in the hearts of Adepta Sororitas, All models with the Adepta Sororitas Faction automatically pass AOF tests and may choose to benefit from a special rule granted by the AOF of a Sororitas unit in the army in addition to the one normally conferred by the AOF.
The Emperor Demands Retribution!: Victims of Saint Celestines Melee attacks suffer a -1 penalty to all saving throws and FNP.
Keeps Miraculous Intervention.



This is obviously for funsies but I doubt I'm as far off as I should be if we ever want to see SOB at a top table at LVO or adepticon.

Out of curiosity does anyone know the LVO Sisters list that finished 32nd?

Pretty good placing!

ERJAK wrote:
Sorry to get back on topic but I have to say after reading a number of the proposed improvements, I think you guys aren't really daring to dream big enough. I don't want the sisters of battle to be good, i want them to be HATED. I want a player to show up to an 1850 tournament with a netlisted screamerstar that's secretly 2k points total, with a special permission slip from Reece and Frankie themselves saying that he and he alone can use full invis and full 2++ rerollable, to see 1 Immolator, pack his gak and go home. So here is a proposed rule change to start it off.

Oh, hell no.