Public Service Announcement

Hello friends!

This missive is to let you know that for the time being, my 5 P&M blogs (Mantis Warriors, Bad Moon Orks, AdMech, Halloween themed Chaos and 30k EC) will have all their updates appearing on a single blog (my “Rebuilding the Mantis Warriors” blog… which will get a new name). Why? With my interests so scattered across multiple armies and terrain & the fact that I’m just not painting at the hundreds of figures a year rate that I used to… I’m not making enough quality posts to keep 5 different blogs going. I’ve got a few die-hard friends and supporters that still post… but not enough to build or maintain the community that has always been the strongpoint of my threads in the past.

If my circumstances change and I start painting enough to warrant re-opening one of the specialist threads, I’ll do so... they aren’t closed, just inactive. In the meantime, as of today (Feb 11th, 2017) I’ll be making all of my P&M posts (for all armies) on what has always been my “home” on DakkaDakka, my Mantis Warrior thread. I hope you’ll join me there for the latest updates!
Here’s the link: Gitsplitta's Unified Painting Theory

Thanks!
Gits

Just launching a new P&M blog to follow my exploits making an EC 30k army.



The army will start simply, getting ready for a 30k Zone Mortalis game at Adepticon. My son (Thing 1) will be the one playing this army so I want to make it both pretty and reasonably competitive (at least good enough that he can enjoy himself). I must admit that I'm struggling with the list a bit. Not that I have a lot of options at 500 pts, add to that the fact that I've never played either ZM or 30k and I find myself even less confident about my build than usual.

Here's what I'm looking at... very simple list.

HQ: Centurion -
TP: 10 Tacticals - vexillum, Sgt w/ power sword, artificer armor, MB
EL: 5 Terminators - heavy plasma, power fist, axe, maul & TH, Sgt - not sure... P-sword? Can he take a phoenix spear?

Once I have the war gear nailed down on the two squads, I'll sort out the centurion. I was going to make him an apothecary for the FNP, but I don't think that'll give me enough points left over to kit him out for the inevitable challenges. I'm really struggling with how to equip the characters. Normally I'd just give them the best weapon... PFs or THs... but in challenges I think they're +1 initiative, which would be wasted with a slow weapon.

Any advice from knowledgeable 30k players would be most welcome.


Beyond this I currently have a Siccaran and a number of outriders, a flyer (not the good one) and some random Heresy characters. I have a unit of Palatine Blades, an EC Contemptor Dread and Fulgrim on order. Of course I'm going to have to get more troops to field a legal list... but I thought ordering some really wiz-bang units from the get-go might help get me motivated. I also have a number of original MK-1 vehicles (rhino variants and a land raider) that I can press into service if need be.


Other than list building, I went through all the terminators and marines last night, clipped them off their sprues and sorted them out to see what I could actually make. I'll start the process tonight of cleaning them up and getting the assembled. I'll probably start with the tactical marines as they're pretty straight forward.

Thanks for stopping by. I hope this will be a fun and interesting project for all of us!


As of 3/27/2016, this is what I've finished... tactical support squad, tactical squad and centurion.

And so it begins again


I'll have my eye on the thread- Can only turn out great.
Looking forward to seeing how you do the ECs! How are you planning to do the purple? I remember you were pitching a number of different ideas a few months back.

Unfortunately I cant offer any support ruleswise- I just paint these days! Haha.

Gits ?
Purple ?

Ok.
I have to follow this.

* grabs a seat *

EC are one of my favourite Legions aesthetically, so consider me subbed.

For the Centurion, have you looked at a Paragon blade? It's pretty pricey (25 points, I think), but you get at-initiative AP2 which, with the fact pretty much every 30k squad can and probably will have Artificer armour on the sarge is pretty big. I'd prioritise that over a Consul upgrade to be honest.

Thanks guys, appreciate the support. I am very much looking forward to painting a new color on marines with a very unique style.

@Paradigm: I'm still trying to sort out the rules between the black book and the red one. I had originally planned on giving him the Paragon blade, but from the rules in the (black) book, I wasn't sure he could have one. I think that would be ideal and very fluffy. Then again... I might just be stupid. Thanks for the suggestion, I'll take anything I can get.

Looking forward to this, EC always being my favourite Traitor Legion. Good luck!

P.S Sicarians are absolute monsters

I have no idea about mechanics of 30k and/or zone moralis, but I do know I enjoy watching you paint.

<pulls up a seat>

My bad, Paragon Blades are not available to Consuls, I was thinking of Charnabal Sabres which just give +1 init and Rending.

Almost wonder if it might be worth finding the points to take a Praetor. You're looking at 100 base, 25 for the blade and 10 for the Arty armour, even more if you want an Iron Halo for the invuln, but at 500 and in ZM he'd be something of a wrecking ball. 5-man squads would be toast against him, even larger ones he could handily take on... All depends on whether you can fit that in and still get some other fun stuff, and how many points you want to put into HQs.

Do you want me to throw together a few different lists for you? Let me know if that would help, and if there's any 'must have' units you want me to fit in.

Subbed! Looking forward to this.

@Paradigm : please do. I must have 1 troop and 1 HQ with no named characters.

I'm curious to see your approach to EC!

So it begins!!!

(Yay.) Looking forward to this Gits. You could always do a Praetor or go with a weaker HQ but, perhaps squeeze a Contemptor in?

i was tempted to an EC army myself because the colours are beautiful, but i decided for Death Guard instead because Fulgrim is such a massive ponse.

 Polonius wrote:
I'm curious to see your approach to EC!

Me 2

LOL!

Love Death Guard too. Tough choice.

Very soon my entire front page of "Threads subscribed to" will be Gits.

But I really like purple cus it goes so nice with green, so lets be having you then!

Ok, here's a selection of lists, I've tried to come up with as many different styles as possible so some are a bit skewed towards one type of unit or another, others are more mixed (though TAC at 500 with HH is practically impossible.

1: Heavy Armour:

Praetor, Artificer Armour, Iron Halo, Paragon Blade
Master of the Legion: Pride of the Legion (allows Termies and Vets as troops)

Cataphractii Terminator Squad, Heavy Flamer, 2 Power Fists, 1 Lightning Claw (on the Sarge)

Legion Dreadnought, Flamestorm Cannon, Heavy Flamer in Power Fist

This list is 100% built with Zone Mortalis in mind, they can take punishement and dish it out at close range. all those Flamers will become Rending and the 2+ armour/Armour Value will be worth its weight in gold as there's not going to be a lot of high-volume shooting or expensive, good AP stuff. It'll also be dead quick to paint, if there's a deadline to work to.



2: Fight and Flight:
Centurion, Plasma Pistol, Artificier Armour, Consul: Moriat (functionally loses Independent Character, gains the ability to keep making additional pistol shots until he misses on BS5)

Legion Tactical Squad, Legion Vexilla, Sergeant with Artifcier Armour, Heavy Chainsword

Legion Seeker Squad, 3x combi-weapons

Basically the opposite of the last list, this one wants to stay out of combat, use the Moriat and Seekers (who get special issue ammo) to take out isolated units while the Tacs take objectives, support the other units and take some hits.


3: Many Men:
Centurion, Power Weapon, Artificer armour

Legion Tactical Squad, Sergeant with Artificer armour, Power Weapon

Legion Tactical Squad, Sergeant with Artificer armour, Heavy Chainsword

Apothecarian Detachment, 2 Apothecaries

This is one of the more skewed lists. You lose out on any real anti-tank, but put down a respectable 23 bodies, and can give both Tactical Squads FNP. Basically, your task with this list is just to tough it out until the end of the game, holding objectives and pushing the enemy back. This does however give you a good starting point for a larger force, you have your Troops choices sorted from the off.

4: Cut Off the Head

Praetor, Artificer Armour, Power Weapon, Melta Bombs
Master of the Legion: Pride of the Legion

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad, 7 men, Flamer, Sarge with Power Weapon and Artificer Armour, Veteran Tactics: Furious Charge

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad, 7 men, Flamer, Sarge with Power Weapon and Artificer Armour, Veteran Tactics: Furious Charge

Basically, you just have 3 'sharp' close combat units here, get in close, slice and burn. Again a small force, easily paintable, nice if you prefer PA to TDA and Vet Tac Squads are ace in a full list as well.



Hopefully there's a range of play styles there, something you can get on with. If you like any particular list, I'm happy to work on altering it to better suit you.

Another day another blog? Really? Well if it is the quality I have come to thoroughly enjoy from all your other work I am definitely in all the way. Bring on the Emperors Children and all their creepy perfection.

Looking forward to watching your adventures in 30k Git's.

@Paradigm: I've cut and pasted the restrictions for the ZM game below. The FOC chart didn't copy, but basically it's 1 HQ and 1 Troop compulsory, with 1 HQ, 2 EL, 2 TP, 2 FA and 1 HV being optional. Do all the lists below fit that?

From the Adepticon website:

Forces:
Each participant will bring two army lists, you’ll be using one list in each game, depending on the
Zone Mortalis location. No named characters or Dark Age Relics may be chosen. As this is a 500
point list, no Warlord Traits will be rolled for.

List 1: A single boarding team of 500 pts consisting of a single primary detachment using the
“Combatant” Force Organiza- tion Chart found in Book 1, page 168.

List 2: A single assault team of 500 pts to tackle possibly tricky surface operations (i.e. jump
packs etc.) on Istvaan V itself. Use the “Combatant” Force Organization Chart found in Book 1, page
168

Stratagems:
You may choose 2 pts worth of stratagems from the following list: Breacher Charges, Spearhead
Sentry Gun, Lascutter, Fire- wasp, Traps, Void Hardened Armor, Shock & Awe, Devastation Drone.
Details for these stratagems can be found in Book 1

Yep, they all conform to that. They are, in order:

1 HQ, 1 Troops, 1 Elite

1 HQ, 1 Troops, 1 FA

1 HQ, Troops, Troops, Elite

1 HQ, 2 Troops


Lists 1 and 4 probably best suit the first list type, 2 and 3 the second kind.

Great!

Two questions...

1) What is the advantage of a Cataphractii terminator vs another type?

2) Is a "legion dreadnought" a normal dreadnought, or a contemptor?

Cataphractii grants you Slow and Purposeful in exchange for a 4++ (which since Storm Shields aren't a thing for most Legions, is as tough as you can get in 30k). Legion Dread is just a regular one, to get a Contemptor in there you'd need to find around 50 points from somewhere, so in practice the Iron Halo and Termie upgrades would pretty much have to go (you'd get the HF back on the termies if you downgrade the Paragon Blade to a Power Weapon).

@Paradigm thanks for posting those lists. I have been thinking about getting into 30K but did not know where to start.

These are all very interesting and exciting lists Paradigm, thanks for taking the time to put them together. If I may, I'll give you my thoughts one at a time.

 Paradigm wrote:
Ok, here's a selection of lists, I've tried to come up with as many different styles as possible so some are a bit skewed towards one type of unit or another, others are more mixed (though TAC at 500 with HH is practically impossible.

1: Heavy Armour:

Praetor, Artificer Armour, Iron Halo, Paragon Blade
Master of the Legion: Pride of the Legion (allows Termies and Vets as troops)

Cataphractii Terminator Squad, Heavy Flamer, 2 Power Fists, 1 Lightning Claw (on the Sarge)

Legion Dreadnought, Flamestorm Cannon, Heavy Flamer in Power Fist

This list is 100% built with Zone Mortalis in mind, they can take punishement and dish it out at close range. all those Flamers will become Rending and the 2+ armour/Armour Value will be worth its weight in gold as there's not going to be a lot of high-volume shooting or expensive, good AP stuff. It'll also be dead quick to paint, if there's a deadline to work to.

This list just makes me giggle manically. My only issue with it is being limited to a single, slow-and-purposeful squad for scoring objectives. That could be a real problem depending on the scenarios and whatever ship-board disasters might happen that would interfere with already achingly slow movement.

2: Fight and Flight:
Centurion, Plasma Pistol, Artificier Armour, Consul: Moriat (functionally loses Independent Character, gains the ability to keep making additional pistol shots until he misses on BS5)

Legion Tactical Squad, Legion Vexilla, Sergeant with Artifcier Armour, Heavy Chainsword

Legion Seeker Squad, 3x combi-weapons

Basically the opposite of the last list, this one wants to stay out of combat, use the Moriat and Seekers (who get special issue ammo) to take out isolated units while the Tacs take objectives, support the other units and take some hits.

Same concern as above. The Moriat/Seeker combo seems like it could be pretty darn potent... but it's not a very EC like list. (that's OK at this point)

3: Many Men:
Centurion, Power Weapon, Artificer armour

Legion Tactical Squad, Sergeant with Artificer armour, Power Weapon

Legion Tactical Squad, Sergeant with Artificer armour, Heavy Chainsword

Apothecarian Detachment, 2 Apothecaries

This is one of the more skewed lists. You lose out on any real anti-tank, but put down a respectable 23 bodies, and can give both Tactical Squads FNP. Basically, your task with this list is just to tough it out until the end of the game, holding objectives and pushing the enemy back. This does however give you a good starting point for a larger force, you have your Troops choices sorted from the off.

I like this list just for it's simplicity and ease of use. I think it would be easy for my son to run successfully. But I'm curious... how do they get through locked bulkhead doors? Don't you need MB or something at the least? However, without any real punch it might not be all that fun for him to play. I *do* however, have two legion Apothecaries that I'm just dying to paint.

4: Cut Off the Head

Praetor, Artificer Armour, Power Weapon, Melta Bombs
Master of the Legion: Pride of the Legion

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad, 7 men, Flamer, Sarge with Power Weapon and Artificer Armour, Veteran Tactics: Furious Charge

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad, 7 men, Flamer, Sarge with Power Weapon and Artificer Armour, Veteran Tactics: Furious Charge

Basically, you just have 3 'sharp' close combat units here, get in close, slice and burn. Again a small force, easily paintable, nice if you prefer PA to TDA and Vet Tac Squads are ace in a full list as well.

I'm torn on this list. I like it... should be easy to run and is the fluffiest of the four. I'm worried though that 2 squads of 7 marines just won't have the oomph to enforce their will on the battlefield. Also there's the closed bulkhead issue (if there is an issue).

Hopefully there's a range of play styles there, something you can get on with. If you like any particular list, I'm happy to work on altering it to better suit you.

They're a fantastic starting point. I'd be very interested in any thoughts you might have on my comments.

Yorkright wrote:
@Paradigm thanks for posting those lists. I have been thinking about getting into 30K but did not know where to start.

No problem! I have the books handy and a lot of spare time, so feel free to PM me if you want some pointers or advice on starting or lists (for a certain Legion or just generally) and I'll help you out.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Gits:

Glad they were of some help.

The Bulkheads issue on lists 3 and 4 is one I must admit I didn't consider, it's been a while since I've played/looked at the specifics for Zone Mortalis... For 4, if you can find 10 points somewhere you could either swap the Flamers for Meltas, or keep the Flamers and take Melta Bombs on each Sarge. 3 could similarly take Meltabombs by losing the Heavy Chainsword and 5 points from somewhere else. If you like the idea of the FNP squads, but want a bit more punch, the second Tac squad could be swapped for some veterans, Seekers or maybe even a Tactical Support Squad (all Specials) depending on points.

Mobility would be a problem with the first list, yeah, (though remember, SnP these days just means you can't run/overwatch, rather than always counting as in difficult terrain). Are you not playing 7th rules, so everything would be scoring? Not sure how HH and 7th interact in that regard, I've been playing it as per 7th as I've been facing 40k forces. Best check that one with the organisers or see if they've FAQed it.

That any help?

Yes, tremendously. I'll fiddle with things again tonight and see if I can't come up with a couple of options for you to consider.

Thanks again!

Cool. If you haven't already, download the HH database for Battlescribe, it's much easier than flicking back and forth through the massive books, and it has all the updates in that the earlier books don't.

I'll have to try that. I've tried using Army Builder but their HH files are all screwed up.

Can't help with list advice I'm afraid, but very much looking forward to seeing the models !

Gits + 30k? Colour me purple and add me as a subscriber!

That said though, I'm not sure if you can take a Praetor in a 500pt Zone Mortalis game as they have the Master of the Legion special rule which says "A Space Marine Legion army may only include a single model with this rule as part of their HQ choice per 1000 points in the force."

That said I don't have the ZM rules on hand, so they could possibly remove this restriction.

If ZM doesn't change it and you can't take a Praetor, then I'd recommend a Phoenix Spear for the Centurion. It's an EC-only weapon that costs the same as a power fist and is basically a two-handed power sword that is +1 Str & AP2 on the charge.

That's a good point, I'd read that rule to mean you couldn't take 2 under 1000 points, rather than needing 1000 points to take one. Is there a consensus on it the other way, then?

Given the wording of the Delagatus Consul's Rite of Command special rule I'd say that it's definitely '1000 for 1' not 'can't take 2 under 1000'. "This Consul has the Master of the Legion special rule [...] A Legion Delegatus may be taken in armies below the normal 1,000 points threshold for taking models with the Master of the Legion special rule."

That said, the first time I read the rule I thought the same as you until I re-read it a few times and realised it wasn't saying what I thought.

Fair enough then. In that case the Vet and Termie lists will need a Centurion Delegatus for Pride of the Legion. On the bright side, that will easily get you the points for some meltas or bombs or possibly upgrading the Dread to a Contemptor.

The most recent FAQ removed slow and purposeful from cataphratii and just stated in addition to other restrictions imposed by terminator armour they cannot run or overwatch.

For the HQ situation, maybe a Champion Consul with Phoenix Spear? The Spear is obviously very EC, and if you end up expanding into larger game sizes the Champion is a compulsory choice for the Maru Skara, the Emperor's Children Rite of War. The Champion also gets buffs to his WS from a regular Centurion, and in 500 points would be probably one of the nastiest beatsticks you could find. If not that, then I agree with Para about the Delegatus, which is by all means an excellent 'cut-price' HQ as it gives access to Rites of War below 1000 points

Not a single pic and already at 2 pages.

Looking forward to this.

What pattern of power armor are you using? Maximus from Calth box?

Nice thing about EC is that you can use a lot of 40k bitz with the aquilas.

This should be good. *grabs popcorn*.

EDC

No model. Two pages already.

Well, a very frustrating night of pouring over books, rules and lists. Spoke with Solar_lion about HIS list for the event and of course had all the cool lists that Paradigm created as great sources for ideas.

What I come down to is two main issues....

1) A lot of the more creative lists that either Paradigm or I came up with definitely have an element of risk to them. Potentially big payoffs if you can get the right match-up unit-to-unit, but potentially disastrous if you don't. I don't mind taking risks and rolling the dice like that, but then again I've been playing 40k for over 20 years so I've got a certain perspective on things that my son won't have. I want him to have fun and at least have a chance to succeed in each of his games.

2) I am fairly limited in the models I've got available. I could order more from FW or get the Betrayal of Calth box locally, but if I could make something serviceable with what I've got on-hand I think that would be a better way to go. Here's what I've got...

10 tac marines I mooched from SL's Betrayal of Calth boxed set
5 more marines (probably) that I could cobble together from other sources (the guard for that red scorpion libby + one extra from somewhere)
10 non-cataphractii terminators with upgrades
2 apothecaries
1 centurion/praetorian
2 commanders of some sort (FW)
10 outriders
10 Heresy era jump packs

SL has the neat idea of putting a TL HB Rapier in for a measly 40 pts. As our game will require both subterranean and surface actions... that does double-duty for holding a long hallway or having good range in the open. The outriders would be excellent for the surface action, but I even toyed with them for the underground fight. Upgrading their bolters is prohibitively expensive, but flying around the hallways 24" per turn might be really useful, even considering every move is a dangerous terrain test (on average I'd only lose one bike every three turns assuming they're turbo-boosting every turn).

The only spare dreads I have are a Deredeo and a Chaplain... neither of which really fits the bill.


I have a bit less than 8 weeks. So ordering things is still on the table... and of course I could get the Calth box for the basics if necessary. I was hoping not to spend a ton of money on this, but if something is really needed it'd be worth it so see that my son enjoys his experience.

I thought this would be so much easier.... *grumble*

Are you looking to build a separate list for each type of mission, interior and exterior, or do you want as much crossover between the two as possible to save on painting/cost?

The Rapier is a really cool addition, I hadn't thought about those but yeah, they are dead cheap for their potential. I'd kind of ruled out the Outriders in the ZM list, didn't seem particularly fluffy to have bikes zipping round corridors and the constant DT war a worry.

I would recommend a buying the Calth set to be honest, if you want to expand this force to a full army then it's the cheapest way to get started there, and if not then it's still a good-value box full of lovely models for other projects. If the full box is a little pricey for you, though, it might be worth looking on ebay for the individual parts if you need any; over here at least, the Tacs, Termies and Dread are all selling individually slightly cheaper than their 40k counterparts, so it wouldn't break the bank to pick some up.

Gimme a mo, I'll see about a couple more lists using what you have there and what your thoughts on the last ones....

If you are building this for your son, have you asked him what he wants? Obviously, that’s a secondary consideration, but could tip the scales.

If not details on a specific list, you could propose themes, or how much risk/reward he’s in the mood for.

Here's a quick list, kind of a mashup of the two you liked the look of before:

Centurion, Phoenix Spear, Arty armour, Melta Bombs

Legion Tactical Squad, Vexilla, Sergeant with Meltabombs, Extra CCW for all

Veteran Tactical Squad, Sarge with power weapon and AA, 3x Vets with Power Weapon, 1x Vet with Meltagun

Rapier Weapons Battery, 1 HB Rapier

So all you'd need to order is the Rapier, you've got 10-man unit that's pretty much all-round decent, a sharp and pointy CC unit with melta for blasting down doors, and the Centurion with the Spear of Awesome (why don't my Salamanders/Iron Hands/Raven Guard get anything that cool? )


Got to dash now, but I also have a couple of other ideas based on your suggestions, I'll write them up when I get back.

@Nev: I will, but he has less experience than I do so I don't know that his decisions will be that informed. What I'd hoped to do is present him with a few lists that are decent, and let him select what he wants to play.

@Paradigm: I don't have any problems painting up two different lists since this will develop into a full army.


I *like* that new list! We'll keep that one.

For any more you come up with, assume I have access to the Calth set.

Cool. I'm now trying to put together a list specifically for the outside games, but I'm having trouble getting JPs or the bikes into 500 with any room to spare (Assault squads starting at 250 for 10 is not helpful! )

In the mean time, here's a refined version of the 2xTactical Squad list from yesterday, the aim is again simplicity and hardiness but you get a bit more punch from a Laser Destroyer Rapier:

Centurion, Arty Armour, Spear

Tactical Squad, extra CCW for all, Arty Armour and MB on the Sarge
Tactical Squad, as above, minus Meltabombs

Rapier with HB swapped for Laser Destroyer Array in case you run up against a Dread or similar (more for the outside maps really)


Alternatively, swap the second Tactical Squad and Rapier for MBs on the Centurion, an Apothecary and a 5x Meltagun Support Squad for short-range annihilation on Zone Mortalis maps.

 Paradigm wrote:
Cool. I'm now trying to put together a list specifically for the outside games, but I'm having trouble getting JPs or the bikes into 500 with any room to spare (Assault squads starting at 250 for 10 is not helpful! )

I guess I'd lean towards the bikes... just because they look awesome (I actually bought them to use with my Mantis Warriors).

In the mean time, here's a refined version of the 2xTactical Squad list from yesterday, the aim is again simplicity and hardiness but you get a bit more punch from a Laser Destroyer Rapier:

Centurion, Arty Armour, Spear
Tactical Squad, extra CCW for all, Arty Armour and MB on the Sarge
Tactical Squad, as above, minus Meltabombs
Rapier with HB swapped for Laser Destroyer Array in case you run up against a Dread or similar (more for the outside maps really)

The only issue here is that either the centurion or the second tactical squad needs something to get through a bulkhead (assuming he's going to be running with them). The other issue (ok, so there's two) is that the sergeant of the first tac squad doesn't have a power weapon... so even though he HAS to accept and issue challenges... he's really not equipped to win them.

Alternatively, swap the second Tactical Squad and Rapier for MBs on the Centurion, an Apothecary and a 5x Meltagun Support Squad for short-range annihilation on Zone Mortalis maps.

HQ: Centurion - AA, Phx Spear, MB
TP: Tactical Squad - +CCWs, SG w/AA & MB
TP: Tactical Support Squad - 5x melta guns
EL: Apothecary

Q1: Isn't it 10 points cheaper to make the Centurion a consul apothecary, which points could then be used to buy a vexillus for the tactical squad? Or did we determine that you can't have a consul at this point level?

Q2: Given the above, I'm not sure the sergeant needs AA as he's not kitted out for combat... unless it's to tank AP3 shots. Would those 10 points be of more use elsewhere?

Good call on the Centurion Apothecary, hadn't thought of that. Do that and give the Tacs a Vexilla. I'd still take AA on the Sarge, it's primarily for sticking up front and tanking on the 2+.

Bear in mind the primus medicae cannot be taken as a compulsory HQ.

He can't? Forget I said anything, then!

Yeah, changed when the 7th FAQ dropped a while back.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Horus_Heresy/Horus_Heresy_7th_Edition.pdf

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Horus_Heresy/Betrayal_FAQ_Errata_V2.pdf

 Paradigm wrote:
Good call on the Centurion Apothecary, hadn't thought of that. Do that and give the Tacs a Vexilla. I'd still take AA on the Sarge, it's primarily for sticking up front and tanking on the 2+.

How much 3+ shooting is their actually likely to be? Plasma, melta, LCs are all AP2. Bolters, heavy bolters, auto cannons & assault cannons aren't AP3. Are their popular legion shooting weapons that I'm not accounting for that are AP3?

@Zuul: Thanks for those links. Very helpful!

 Gitsplitta wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
Good call on the Centurion Apothecary, hadn't thought of that. Do that and give the Tacs a Vexilla. I'd still take AA on the Sarge, it's primarily for sticking up front and tanking on the 2+.

How much 3+ shooting is their actually likely to be? Plasma, melta, LCs are all AP2. Bolters, heavy bolters, auto cannons & assault cannons aren't AP3. Are their popular legion shooting weapons that I'm not accounting for that are AP3?

It's not so much about AP3 specifically, I've just found having a 2+ up front helps keep the squad at full strength a while longer, any 2s you roll are saved rather than losing a Marine; it might not seem like much, but in practice I've always found it worth it. Without any other gear, the sergeant is basically a sacrifice, but I still think it's worthwhile for the added durability.

Ah, got it. Makes sense.


OH, the terminator armor I have is Tartarus pattern... which apparently allows sweeping advance. (according to Zuul's link).

Not only do i love Git's threads, I too have a BaC box set and have been meaning to find a decent entry list for starting into 30k

Can;t wait to see you put some purple paint down gits!

boring rules talk...

I was led to understand there would be purple punch and pie.

Sorry Moonpie, at 500 points, list building is a very high-stakes affair. Worth spending time on.


Picked up Betrayal after work yesterday so I have a wider variety of models to work with now.

I note that no one ever mentions or uses Tartaros pattern terminator armor, it's always the Cataphractii variant I see. Leave it to me to fall in love with something useless. I really don't like the look of the romanesque terminator armor... but it's definitely the "hot" variant. I laugh that in book 1 they claim that Tartaros is the "most advanced terminator armor of the time"... so advanced, no one ever uses it. Way to hit the mark GW.

Got Battlescribe downloaded and functioning. Have put together two lists for Thing 1 to choose from. I'd like to give him at least one more. I'll pour over Paradigm's suggestions again and see what I can put together & offer them to him tonight so I can finally get rolling on the figures.

To be fair, the Sweeping Advance on Tartaros pattern armour (that's what it does, isn't it? Haven't checked the FAQ in a while) is pretty damn potent; there's no ATSKNF in 30k so sweeping is a huge threat to large or expensive units. It gets around arguably the biggest weakness of Terminators, the 4++ is just more popular I think as with no Storm Shields available, that's pretty much the best defence you can get on expensive TDA units. With Tartaros, you need to be a little more careful in how you play them, but there's potentially a much bigger pay-off.

I prefer the Tartaros armour as well, it also allows your unit to run which can be useful, don't EC get a bonus to run moves or something?
Also in the new update cataphracii terms can't overwatch.

Besides if you are playing ZM that ability to get in to combat quickly and wipe out an opponent can be useful since you are not as likely to come up against long ranged ap2, your main worry would be plasmagun support squads, dreadnoughts or other terminators, all of which are expensive pointswise. A better invulnerable save wont help against anything that makes you roll lots of dice like massed bolter fire.

To be fair, the FAQ with the new rule for the tartaros terminators came out very recently. Until then cataphratii was preferable over terminator in many cases due to its better invul save. I imagine as time goes on a diversification of terminator armour armour will now occur.

Well, I presented Thing 1 with 4 different lists. None exactly like the ones Paradigm and I were kicking around, but all had elements and lessons learned from those lists.

List 1: "Rapier & Meltas"
HQ: Praetor - AArmor, Power Spear
EL: Rapier - 4x HB
TP: LTS (10) - AArmor, MB
TP: LTSS (5) - 4x MG

List #2: "Contemptor"
HQ: Centurion - AArmor, Power Spear, Refractor Field, MB
EL: Contemptor - Havoc Launcher, H Flmr, Kheres Assault Cannon
TP: LTS (10) - AArmor, MB, Power Spear (srg), Vexilla

List #3: "Cataphractii"
HQ: Centurion - AArmor, Power Spear, Refractor Field, MB
EL: Cataphractii Terminators (5) - chainfist, thunder hammer, power spear (srg), plasma blaster
TP: LTS (10) - AArmor, MB, Power Spear (srg), Vexilla

List #4: "Chaplain & Fast Terminators"
HQ: Centurion - AArmor, Power Spear, Chaplain
EL: Terminators (5) - Power Spear (srg), Grenade Harness (srg), Power Fist, Thunder Hammer
TP: LTS (10) - AArmor, Heavy Chainsword, MB, Vexilla


Thing 1 chose...



These were all intended to be "underground" lists... I'll try and cook something semi-intelligent for above ground.

Just so you know Gits, you have 50 points to spare with that first list as you can't take a Praetor at 500 points (Master of the Legion requires 1000 points) and so will have to take a Centurion.

Maybe it could be used to make a Centurion with the Champion Consul upgrade, Refractor Field, AArmour, Melta Bombs and Phoenix Spear, which would make him basically a Praetor with -1 W and -1 A and being forced to Challenge with the bonus of being able to Master-craft a weapon, having a 5++ and having melta bombs, just in case.

And that above build is probably among the most dangerous single minis you'll find at 500 points.

Seems like that's the best list, plenty of firepower and a decent number of bodies.

Awesome.

Yeah I would have gone with the first list as well.

Unfortunately that particular combination is 10 points too expensive. 130 points rather than 120. I could drop the melta bomb easily enough, but there's nowhere else to get the last 5 points. The only solution I can see is dropping the artificer armor on the tactical sergeant.

If the Cent is going to run with the Tacs, and you don't mind having your HQ pull Tank duty, you could drop the Sarge's AA? You're relying on LoS/a 5++ for AP2/1 weapons then, but that's probably the best way to get that particular Cent build in. OR you could keep the Sarge's AA and drop the Refractor Field; against shooting you'll be using LoS rather than chancing on the 5++. and with Praetors (and thus Paragon Blades) out of the picture, any CC AP2 is going to be hitting at I1 anyway, so you've a good chance of dealing with it before it swings.

At 500, I think making sacrifices in list-building is part of the game, really. If I were to lose something from the list, though, I'd drop the Refractor Field for the above reasons.

What worried me is that this list has no way of dealing with terminators (other than getting lucky). Assuming the centurion assaults cataphractii (the most commonly used terminators that I've seen), he should kill, on average... 1, maybe two on the outside. The termies respond with PFs or some such killing a bunch of normal marines, and the squad and HQ are fleeing. Same scenario for the meltas as they have to move into easy charge range to shoot, but should only actually kill 1.5 cataphractii, after which they get charged and wiped out.

So, what am I not taking into account? This seems one of the weakest lists available, not the strongest.

Well, Termies do die to buckets of dice, in ZM setting up a short-range Fury of the Legion for 4 shots per Tactical at 12" shouldn't be too hard, that should cripple a Termie squad, I'd think (though I haven't run the numbers)

The other thing to bear in mind is that with the Cataphractii being unable to Run, you're probably able to avoid them in the tight terrain easily enough (if they're coming for one of your units, it'll be telegraphed at least a turn beforehand) so long as you're not in a dead end. A list with Termies is going to have at most 2 other units, more likely 1 and a HQ. Shouldn't be too hard to deal with, if you can play the objective game, kite the Termies, set a trap if need be, don't take them head on.

It's a risk, but other than swapping the Melta squad for Plasma (meaning you lose effectiveness somewhere else because of the points increase) I don't see a way around it...

Oh, by the way, the Support Squad has 5 specials, not 4 (the Sarge gets one as well)

OK, that makes sense.


So, here's what I came up with for the "above ground" list...

HQ: Centurion - AA, PSpear, RField, Legion Champion
EL: Rapier (Laser Destroyer)
TP: LTS - sgt w/ AA, PSpear, MB
FA: Outriders (4) - plasma pistol, sgt w/PSpear, MB

So basically a straight swap of the Support Squad for the Outriders? Seems decent, and you've not got many other options for Troops at this level (I keep trying to come up with something for the Assault Marines, but they're half the list on their own, by the time you add a decent HQ you've got maybe 100 points to play with).

Yeah, I figure a solid list is a solid list... so you mess with it as little as possible in order to get where you're going.

The other thing you have to consider is that all these cuts you're having to make to fit everything in, anyone you go up against is going to have gone through the same process. So a big part of it once the plastic hits the table is going to be figuring out where the opponent has made the biggest sacrifices and pressing those weak spots if you can. With so few units and options in the list-building, and just the nature of ZM games, in-game tactics are going to be as important as any plan going in.

Anyway, when can we have pics of shiny EC Marines?

I'll get to work on them today, but I'm still going through the process or ordering parts & units. All the mucking about is done though. Unfortunately I have to wait 10-14 days for key components to come in from the UK. But... in the nonce I'll build what I can.

Accept it. You are a legend gits. We wants purple!

This... was a lot less fun than I thought it would be.

Hopefully the next part will be better.

 Gitsplitta wrote:
This... was a lot less fun than I thought it would be.

Hopefully the next part will be better.

As long as we get to see paint soon, it was worth it!

Don't be like that Gits, you'll soon be loving it off all the superglue/paint fumes!

And now that you've settled on a list, they've gone and changed the EC rules!

???!

Don't fret. The updated rules won't be out terribly soon. At open day they said they had just gone to the printers.

Thanks Zuul... almost had a brown-trouser moment there.


OK gang, so I want to batch paint all (well... most) of the EC at once so they have a uniform look about them. That means you won't see paint for another 2 weeks probably as I have to wait for a number of things to come in from Forge World. However... I'll make amends by painting a few extra things for you. Possibilities are... more tac marines, siccaran, contemptor & a group of terminators of some kind.

In the mean time I won't tease the blog unless I've got something concrete to show for it. Builds should start soon. They'd start tomorrow except that I'm involved in an Apoc campaign starting in a month or so and all the ork players have decided to fight it out amongst ourselves to see who gets to be warlord. My first fight is Tuesday night. 1500 pts, no named characters, 1 CAD, no SH. Boss Gitsplitta has been frothing at the mouth and has whipped the boyz into a real frenzy.

Sounds good guys list looks solid

@Bama.... I saw a post, and almost soiled my self with glee... And it wasn't Gits... :(

Sorry to disappoint. But I am curious to see him tackle the purple

Forge World order arrived today. I'm out of excuses now...

Excellent.. whats in the stash?

Not much. A HB Rapier and some appropriate melta guns. I'll make my own las set-up for the rapier so they can be switched out. I also ordered the EC decal sheet, but they didn't bother sending that along.

yessssssss.... What goodies did you get!

The Forge World decal sheets are amazing Gits, just so much stuff on them. Yes they are expensive but they are well worth it just because of the variety of markings you get (and also for those likeme that find freehand and consistency a chore) I have barely scratched the surface on my Heresy Alpha decals.

I this army based around a Betrayal At Calth set or purely resin?

It's pretty much a mix.

Well, the decals came in today. I will begin work this weekend. With luck (and a bit of work), I'll get everything I need assembled and ready for the airbrushing!

Looking forward to another 500 page blog! 496 to go !

Finally... some progress. First squad built!

Great Start Gits!

You got resin guns but not pads?

No. I ordered a full sheet of EC transfers, so those will have to do.

Working on the rapier now. Have to figure out how to change the guns out (it's not really made for that).

First squad is looking great Git's.

Oooh another project to watch with envy!

The first of the eye-candy has arrived!

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
The first of the eye-candy has arrived!

He hasn't even started painting and it's getting exciting!

Exactly how I feel. Not even painted but stoked! I love the heresy models so much!

And round two... added the rapier. The gun itself is magnetized in as I'll have to scratch-build a quad lascannon option for it.

How easy was it to align the resin meltas with the plastic arms? It looks like the meltas are almost too long or too big to fit the non trigger hand.

I am now concerned about the resin weapons I have for my plastic Cataphracti.

Not easy. I had to pin the meltas to the right arm and the jigger both arms around to try and find a place where it all fit together more or less. Lots of messy glue involved.

Those meltas do look like they were a complete nightmare. Makes me wary of trying to do the same.

Good Start. Love the rapier.

I'm working on the outriders (bikes) now. They're proving to be a bit tricky and slow to build. Hopefully more pics & progress tonight.

To echo Solar_Lion; excellent work on converting the rapier!

I'm desperately trying to avoid picking up BaC and starting yet another project. You're doing me no favours and you've not even put paint to model yet!

Thanks endtrans... but no conversion needed on the rapier, that's straight out of the bag!

Gits, can't wait to see some paint on these bad boys!

I can't either... I'm getting antsy for painting!

Ah, I'm misremembering, I thought you said you'd needed to fiddle with it.

Ah, I know what you're thinking of. I need one of the las cannon versions too and I was too cheap to buy a second one... so I need to scratch-build a las cannon gun mount for this frame.

Gits, I think I have the TL Lascannons that come with the Ven Dread set lying around. Let me check when I get home

Looking good Gits! Look forward to seeing them with some paint.

Ahhhh that sounds more like it! I knew there was a conversion in there somewhere.

I got an Old RT one I'll send your way. On the small side but it's something you won;t have to build!

I figure I owe you guys a better pic of the rapier...



... as well as something new... the Outriders.




I hope to finish up the build on the tactical squad today, which should get me ready to paint ASAP.

Love the look of those bikes. Nice lance, looks like it’s just waiting to snap off though. Is there a point of contact on the front of the bike?

Yes, it's touching the side of the bolter mount. I could put a touch of glue there to hold it in place. Good call Nev.

Where is that awesome Phoenix Spear from? I need one... and then I need to find a model worth putting it on, but that's a secondary concern!

I do love those bikes. Good call on strengthening the lance with the contact point

The phoenix spears, for the terminators at least, are horribly fragile. I think three of mine have snapped already.

That spear is super cool. Where is that arm from?

The arm was modified in order to hold the spear.

Tac Squad is built! Now all I need to do is the Centurion. I'd like to do something special rather than just another normal marine figure... Not sure if I have anything suitable though. Spear had to be slightly shortened and the arms dissected and reassembled... but I got it to work.



I think I'll take a slight break while I'll think about the Centurion and put the dreadnought together from the Calth set. It'll be a nice diversion that shouldn't delay me more than a day.

The chaplain from BaC would make a great donor model and is a reasonable price.

Looking forward to your take on the Dreadnought if this is from a full Calth box, as it is a sweet model to convert.

The BaC Chaplain, a converted Mk2 Marine/a mixed armor marks marine, or the FW Praetor are all pretty sweet stand in models for a Centurion.

Looking good so far Gits. Lots of nice little conversions .

EDC

If the centurion is to be armed with a Phoenix spear I think a suitably dynamic pose of him mid javelin style throw whilst atop a small mound of rubble is suitably emperors children pose.

Thanks for the support gang. I really do appreciate everyone hanging with me from the weeks I started this blog until now when I'm actually making progress. I really did *think* I was going to start work on this army right away... things just went awry a bit. I am however, very excited about it now that I'm finally progressing.

I must say that the casting of the Calth figures is amazing. I'm been with GW for around 25 years & seen it all... and it's hard to find the mold lines on some of these figure elements. That's a pretty impressive technological feat. Hard to imagine that a company capable of producing casts like this also produces the failcast models.


I'll do the contemptor tonight... then probably the Centurion the night after that. I'm a bit torn about when to start painting... I'd kind of like to build one more tactical squad... just so when I'm done I'd have a legal army... but I don't want to put off painting too long so that I get myself in a time-crunch before Adepticon. But... 10 normal guys (without a p-spear conversion) is probably just one night's building... so I don't know if it would really make all that much difference.

I appreciate the ideas for the Centurion. Yes, he'll have a p-spear too. I'll have to do it with the models I have on hand. I'll take a look through my bits tonight as I'm working on the dread and see what I have to work with.

Looking great Git. Very Natural stance with the spear.

The sculpts are really amazing, I've been gaming for 20 years. I was very impressed too. It was very slow going for me too, the 30 Tacticals I thought would be quick, just so much detail and you feel the urge and the must to do them right as in all the details etc. It took me about a week.

Your work always inspires Git. Be excited to see the Contemptor and what you do with it. Are you going to add icons or transfers or no idea yet?

Pity you don't have more time, the MKII, III or IV command would make great conversions. What about a Palatine blade, you have those already, yes?

I may jump in with the next HH set if they include plastic Assault troops. I want to do Raven Guard, but don't want to mess with resin jetpacks.

Question Gits, how do you like marines on the 32mm bases?

Gits, did you order a squad of the Pheonix Terminators for the arms? Or did you snag them elsewhere?

@Spacewolverine: I've got the Forge World transfer sheet for the EC. It's one heck of a lot cheaper than ordering all the custom parts... even though that would be cool. Also they're a lot faster way of getting insignia on the models, and time is a factor here.

@WM: I don't have any of the specialty troops yet (palatine blades or p-terminators), otherwise that would be an easy solution.

@Anpu: As a big basing fan... I love the 32mm bases. I'm not looking forward to upgrading my old 25mm bases, but am really enjoying the new size on the new models.

@MAzalle: I got them as bits off of e-bay I think. The resin color makes me think they aren't re-casts. Perhaps a broken up group of palatine blades?

Ah gits, prolific as ever I see! Less buildy more painty though, let's see a test scheme!

Tom.... really? You're going to make to do a test figure rather than just going off a half-arsed hunch like usual??! I think I've only done a test scheme once in my entire painting career! In the end I didn't even use it!!

Oh the agony! Oh the pain!! OH THE HUMANITY!! OH.... Oh heck... sure, I'll throw something together.

Hopefully you will thank me lol! Pretty much just want to see some purple lol, no other reason

 Gitsplitta wrote:


@WM: I don't have any of the specialty troops yet (palatine blades or p-terminators), otherwise that would be an easy solution.

Crap, if I had known last weekend I could have sent you one. I don't think it'll get there fast enough though now, as I wouldn't be able to sent til Monday. Happy to do so though, if you want. I got the set to use as RS Sgts with power swords, so no pressing need.

That would solve a lot of problems WM. I'll PM you and we can work out the details. Thanks!


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Contemptor done. Decided I needed some fire support... note the carefully drilled out barrels and smoke stacks.

Well, when you add everything up that I've built (including the HQ as a Praetorian) it's nearly 1000 points. I think I'll throw 5 extra marines together just so I can comfortably top that mark and have an actual army. Won't be a good army... but at least it'll be legal.

Damn gits but you know ho to get things done! All looking very exciting of course! Special points for the contenptor smoke stacks looking forward to seeing them in colour!

On the assault cannon it looks like a little bit of a mold line is still on the front. Also, are you going to drill the lower barrel?

He looks fine, but Frank over in your Halloween army set an awfully high bar. Hope this guy can match it.

Thanks San. I've decided the build pics look better in black & white... at least I thought I'd give it a go.


I think I've found a figure for my Centurion. It's a Forge World special character. I can't remember his exact name but he's a bare-headed fool in what looks to be a leaping or stepping up pose. A Praetor Council of some sort. The body and backpack work fine. I haven't opened the blister so I'm not sure about the arms, but they can be cobbled together from other bits. I might try actually milling my own phoenix spear shaft out of brass rod (old jeweler's trick) which should prevent it from having snapping issues, especially if I opt for a more dynamic pose.

@Nev: Thanks for pointing those out. I'll fix them.

I'm proud of this one... the spear haft is milled brass rod.

Are you absolutely certain that's brass? It looks more like aluminum or pewter, maybe zinc or something. Or, you know, steel.

The pic has been greyscaled, Anvil

Loving the Centurion, biker and Tac squad. Can't believe I somehow missed the updates you posted those last 2 in

Gits, now you owe Tom a test figure and Dakka a milling tutorial.

I have so much brass rod for the rhinos as the plastic rails break. I could totally make some staves now with that method.

He came out really well for something you did so quickly.

Cool. The milled brass rod is awesome.

EDC

That brass rod looks absolutely fantastic!

The charging pose is also really nicely done, but to me, the arm and hand grip look a bit awkward. It may look better if the hand was a bit further down the haft of the spear as, at the moment, it looks like he's got a sword with a reeeeeaaaaallly long hilt. With the blade that close to his hand it looks like he should have a reverse grip on it as if he's about to throw it

Just my opinion though

That Cent is so cool. Someone is going to get very badly stabbed, you can just tell!

Actually he IS supposed to be throwing it. I just screwed up. Unfortunately I don't think its fixable at this point. :/

Ah, I see it now. If you do plan to redo it (and I wouldn't, it looks brilliant, even if it's not what you had in mind), I think the grip would need to be reversed and the arm tilted back, the palm of the hand facing outwards and the forward/downward lines of the mini suggest a downward stabbing motion, rather than a javelin-throwing action.

Personally, I think it looks so good as it is, I wouldn't change it. The spear doesn't actually strike me as a weapon you'd throw except as a last resort, given the single-edged blade, more one you'd use for thrusting and parrying, one or two-handed. It's almost more of a glaive than a spear in weapony terms.

Sorry, went on a bit of a tangent there! Short version, he looks epic, get painting!

He looks Fantastic. Only question I have is his backpack glued on, because I think he'd look great if it was magnetized to swap out with a jet pack.

No, I appreciate the comments Paradigm. It'll have to stay the way it is... for time considerations if nothing else. I can say that I've actually used a spear in this fashion quite effectively (from my medieval re-creationist days). It's either because your opponent has closed on you and you basically turn the spear into a very long-hafted dagger... or you need to do something very unexpected to get through your opponent's defenses. I agree though... it's much more glaive-like than a true spear.

@Theo: It is at the moment, but it can be easily popped off & magnetized. Good idea.

....or because, like me, you have only Hollywood style training in how to use the weapon and it looks cool. Plus when you are a superstrong human the weighting of the weapon is a lot less important than getting the pointy end in their face .

Good Idea only came from brilliant execution and dynamic posing.

Ooh, spears and jump packs. One of these days I’ll convince someone with more skills then I to make the assault marine with a spear in mid-stab, held up in the air with it, based with his victim.

I think he look great, good and dynamic. The practical side of me says “that guy is not going to fit into a case well for transit” but I’m sure you can work something out.

Love his pose, so much action. Like everyone else has said, well done with the brass rod.

 Gitsplitta wrote:
No, I appreciate the comments Paradigm. It'll have to stay the way it is... for time considerations if nothing else. I can say that I've actually used a spear in this fashion quite effectively (from my medieval re-creationist days). It's either because your opponent has closed on you and you basically turn the spear into a very long-hafted dagger... or you need to do something very unexpected to get through your opponent's defenses. I agree though... it's much more glaive-like than a true spear.

I can see stabby grip working well at close range. I guess the spears we've been playing with in our sword group were more pike like in haft thickness/length so you'd just break your wrist trying that move.

paradigm wrote:The spear doesn't actually strike me as a weapon you'd throw except as a last resort

Quite true, though you can thrust and let go, to catch hold further down the haft to extend your reach somewhat. Quite a sneaky tactic that confuses people no end. also one you can use with zweihanders

Sorry. Completely off topic!

Either way, still a cool model and pose

I should have clarified... I've never lifted the haft up in the air like this... physics & biology you know... just choked up on it and used it like a dagger with the haft dragging on the ground. I think marine in power armor could do it though. My main issue was being limited by the phoenix spear model that I had available. The hands are molded into the spear (see tac sergeant) so if I wanted to save either hand, I was very limited in my posing options. I could have replaced the entire spear shaft... but I wasn't confident I could securely attach the shaft to the blade.

Dear mother of the God Emperor himself... that... that is just beautiful Gits...

I have to agree with the above comments, the only... Only thing that looks off is that the grip should palm up on the spear... but maybe he is about to drive spike it into a Loyalist (or Traitor) scum!

Sorry to be late to the party. But truly, you are now Gitsplitta, king of spears.

Thank you my long suffering peeps, I am humbled. Painting will commence on Sunday. One more night of building and a tournament tomorrow.


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I think this is the last addition before painting... though I reserve the right to squeeze in a couple of extra tac marines.

As Ramos calls it... The Dorito Dreadnought!

Yesssss.... Dorito Duel, coming this year only at Adepticon



Excited to see the paint start to fly!

You going to drybrush a little neon orange around the edges? Or is he Cool Ranch?

Needs moar Dakka! You going to carve out the head and put a grot gunner in there? That thing has crazed mekboy levels of firepower.

Looking forward to paint, and good luck in the tournament!

Good luck with the tournament.

Like always cannot wait for paint on them!

Is it wrong to wish someone crushed in the first 5 minutes of their game just sooooooo bad that they give up on the rest of their day and go home and start painting tiny soldiers purple

Totally rhetorical, I just know theres a lot of visitors here in this blog and I didn't know where to post this question. Probably best over in the Dakka discussions or tournament threads......Ah but I'm lazy and started typing here and I don't wander over there often.

Anyway, COMPLETELY RHETORICAL and has no bearing on situations that may or may not be happening today......




















Oh yeah, good luck in your tournament Win Big, get store credit, buy B@C, expand the luscious purple horde













Or go home and start painting.......always an option.

Is that nickname because it resembles the Mech created by a certain Angry Green Dorito?

The insane amount of dakka on that turns a fairly static build into something completely terrifying. It's very battletech in its overall look - I demand you name this beast Mad Cat! (with Salsa, of course)

I promised that the painting would start today, and so it has. Unfortunately the color in the photo is all wrong. The base is actually a deep bluish purple. I'm going to let them dry overnight before doing the next step tomorrow.




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Here's a quick light box shot of one of the marines. Color of this pic is much better.

Lovely rich colour there. Exciting stuff Mr!

The base color you used is indigo my friend. It does look drastically different in the group shot compared to the single, the joys of photography lol...

Looking good gits! Do you have a whole paint scheme in mind ?

Ooo that purple is lush!

EDC

Used a similar color when i was doing up those AdMech a while back- Promising start, Gits

PAINT! Lovely purple to work from, throw in the white and gold and you should have something epic!

One of my favorite shades. Looking forward to details!

Thanks gang, I like this as a starting point. We'll see where I can take it from here.

Very exciting to see some paint, looking forward to see how it turns out.

Good start. Nice color choice.

Agreed with the above, great color choice Git!

Looking fantastic gits. What color system are you using with your air brush?

Progressing nicely Gits, they look bloody good even just assembled and base coated! :-) you can just stop now so I don't get another hair brained idea to start something I'll never finish :-(....... don't know anyone after a GK army do you?......

I bought Blackhand's old GK army, so I'm out. whalemusic360 will probably buy it... he buys everything!

Not this time, warhams money going to Titan fund for the near future.

Come now Paul, throw off the tyranny of 'or' and embrace the beauty of 'and'!

^ Hear, hear, I concur :-)

First upshade. Big thanks to MajorTom11 for helping me sort out how to handle the purple. One upshade left to go!

Push it up even more, but the blend is going nicely, you transitioned nicely from cool to warm!

2 more steps, redder violet top down zenithal with AB then magenta brush edging should do it!

Will do!


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Next shade.



Perhaps not the best figure to show as there's an awfully lot of top highlight on this one because of the pose....

Looking great so far Gits, this is very exciting.

By far my favorite way of shading purple. Nice rich and warm magenta

Looking spectacular, Gits!

Blue marine, blue marine, same blue marine...I hate purple.

Looks good I imagine..

OK, I think the airbrushing is done. It's really annoying because this really isn't what the army looks like... there's too much red in these colors... I just cant get my camera to process the colors correctly. Also from this angle... some of the figures just look magenta (like the bikes). That's a camera angle issue. They aren't just magenta.


It's also worth mentioning that when I finished the final highlight, I only had about 15 seconds of paint left in the bowl. That's cutting it a little close. I can do close-ups of specific figures if people want. With reasonable upgrades, this army comes out to 1150 points.... and it's legal. The next installment (whenever that comes) will be two more bikes, 5-10 more tactical marines and a sicaran. OH, and I'll be adding another rapier as soon as it comes in the mail.

Mate, I think they are looking really good. I totally hear your frustration with the white balance, I get that all time. I've taken to including a piece of white paper in one corner to adjust the balance to on the computer, if that's helpful?

What a great canvas? Can't wait to see some of the other colors appearing.

Looks pretty perfect for EC to me from here! If you want better color representation, zoom in on a single model, the camera is trying to balance the white based on a focus zone, but from that far away you won't get a good reading.

Irrespective of colour balance, they still look damn tasty.

That purple looks magnificent. So smooth and deep. It will work so well as a base for the detail work.

Yeah, I'm liking. Even if the camera is playing up it's looking cool.

EDC

Thanks guys, I'm really happy with the way they turned out. Special thanks again to MajorTom for guiding through the process and reminding me of the lessons learned from his color theory class.

I just want to caution you guys about not expecting too much from these on the first go-round. I have two weeks to make the models table worthy... What that means is I will be doing my best at the elements I paint on them, but they'll just be getting the basics. Ferrous metals (steel), gold, decals & basing. Anything beyond that will have to wait (unless I get things done ahead of time of course). It's tricky because I have a lot of mundane commitments between now and then.

So... ferrous metals next.

And you know... they look a lot less red on my screen here than they did at home. It might not be my camera but the way the color is set on my home monitor. Hmmmm....

I'm sure they will look great man, and besides you've put together a whole force and well, quantity had a quality of its own!

A tight deadline could explain the red-shift. It’s coming so fast you are getting the doppler effect.

That’s a big lot to get done in two weeks, best of luck.

They look good on my monitor. Now I need to figure out How I get a personal coaching session from MT as well.

Damn those look so nice! I need to find the motivation you have to work on my HH army.

I'd be happy to share the information and guidance I got from Tom with anyone. PM me your e-mail address (not you SL, obviously) and I'll send it along.

@EC: Desperation born out of running out of time is a wonderful motivator. That and the fact that this is the army my son will be playing at Adepticon and I want him to have something nice to put on the table.

 Gitsplitta wrote:
I'd be happy to share the information and guidance I got from Tom with anyone. PM me your e-mail address (not you SL, obviously) and I'll send it along.

@EC: Desperation born out of running out of time is a wonderful motivator. That and the fact that this is the army my son will be playing at Adepticon and I want him to have something nice to put on the table.

Hmm...I I see, that too would make me want to finish it! But...I need to make a child first. I don't think my wife would like the reason though haha. You are an awesome dad though!

I'm sure there have been less reasons to have a child.

How would this play out.

Man: Honey, we need to have a child.
Wife: Why? Don't you have miniatures to paint?
Man: Exactly. I like to paint my HH army but what's the point if I can't give it to my child so when they get old enough to play at Adeptiocon they look awesome.
Wife: good point.. Come get some!

Ok.. I need help!

 Solar_lion wrote:
Wife: good point.. Come get some!

Are you suggesting that EC is married to Bruce Campbell?

 Gitsplitta wrote:
I'd be happy to share the information and guidance I got from Tom with anyone. PM me your e-mail address (not you SL, obviously) and I'll send it along.

@EC: Desperation born out of running out of time is a wonderful motivator. That and the fact that this is the army my son will be playing at Adepticon and I want him to have something nice to put on the table.

Oy! My IP! lol

Sorry Tom! I thought I was saving you some trouble!


OK, for anyone interested... PM MajorTom11 and maybe... JUST MAYBE... if you ask REEEEEELY nicely... he'll help you too!

Congrats Tom on now becoming a Brand!

Action figures and Music videos to follow!

Guess we better just make him a Mod again and send him to OT.

Lol, no need for that, I don't miss OT one bit lol -

Here is the stuff, should have put it up a long time ago but better late than never -

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/683829.page

OH, you'll need this too...

Omg Gits, how'd you find that

He didn't

Cars are a great way to examine highlights and shading for high saturation armor colors. They teach you not to use white much at all, which is key.

I learn from the best!

Nice. Howerer that sends the 'Tom' Brand too far in the past..

Mantis Mobile is a little more Brand exciting and modern.

6.2 Ltr Hemi Hellcat engine = 700HP. MSRP 59,999.


Back on topic. My bad!

 Gitsplitta wrote:
OH, you'll need this too...

Why do you have a picture of my neighbors car???

 MajorTom11 wrote:
He didn't

Cars are a great way to examine highlights and shading for high saturation armor colors. They teach you not to use white much at all, which is key.

Disagree. Everywhere the light hits that whatever color car pops to white.

But what do I know? I can't afford an airbrish.

You are confusing specular reflections on a gloss surface for the objects color. If you want to paint specular reflections you can, but that is a nmm'ish style which locks the lighting. As you point out, it is a sharp 'popping' transition, which means that the white would be directly applied with a sharpish edge. This means that you would not add white to the color for everything else, all the non specular stuff would remain extremely saturated. I.e, you don't highlight red with white, that makes it pink. If you put a red ferrari under bright lights, it doesn't turn pink does it? It turns an even more vibrant red, with more of the sharp white specular reflections. Likewise, for other high saturation colors like green, if you want to keep a green looking lime, you don't add white to highlight, otherwise you fundamentally change the green to mint or lima bean green. This is because you modified the brightness, but in doing so, you killed the saturation. If you want to highlight a lime-y green, and keep it vibrant and lime looking, you add yellow. A lighter color, adjacent on the spectrum, of equal saturation. That way you effect the brightness but not the saturation. White is a no no most of the time, especially if you don't know what specular reflections are, or the difference between additive and subtractive color systems.

Specular can be done, Ben Komets does it amazingly, integrating it into his NMM technique, so does Bohun. If you are however doing standard metallics and pseudo zenithal lighting with edge highlights (as most of us do), you don't put the white specular reflections. It's physics based, if you want to learn about why it works that way, hit the link above

Too many sciences in my space mans game!

Color is absolutely science based, literally! Don't be afraid!

How you feel about what you see is up to you, but how the color comes to be and why is not, that's physics.

I love me some physics!

Great job Gits', lovely colour.

and Thanks MajorTom, I shall read through that when I get the chance.

I solve my problems by just painting pink to begin with.

I'm sure it's looking good, Gits. Wish I had the cones to appreciate it.

Thanks everyone for your kind words. There will be a brief interruption as an old college roommate and his son come and visit us for a few days for some gaming amongst other things. On the docket: WH fantasy (not Sigmar), WH 40k & some kind of space game. Perhaps even dragging out some of the old 15mm titans. It's also forcing me to clean my game room / painting studio... which is a very good thing.

Hopefully we get a Young Guns vs Old Farts battle report.

Perhaps...

That would be funny.

Do you have a fantasy army Git's?

 GiraffeX wrote:
That would be funny.

Do you have a fantasy army Git's?

No but give him a week and a space for a 50 page blog and he'll have one, and we will all be entertained while he knocks it out.

@Theo: Cold man... very cold.


Nope, no fantasy. I have too much 40k stuff to paint to get into another game. Had a wonderful time catching up with my friend, our boys were thick as thieves all night (his 11 year old and my 12). I did a quick repaint on a badly banged up slaan Buddha dude in a floating chair. Turned out nicely I think. Tomorrow we do fantasy. Skaven vs. orks. Should be fun!

Excellent work on the purple, this has all the hallmarks of potential greatness.

I am a firm believer that you can never have enough to paint

Sounds like great fun. I miss my old 40k buddies from IA.

Fantastic looking purples there Gits and thanks for the tips Tom!

Excuse me saying Gits, but I am pretty certain you could counts as your way through a fantasy army with your halloween specials!

Like purple, goes well with green.

Thanks guys, really appreciate the support! Makes it so much easier to stay motivated.

@Cam: Funny you should say that. My friend (the WH Fantasy player) thought they were a fantasy army.


I should be back to painting very soon, either later tonight or tomorrow. Having played a game of WH Fantasy, I now understand fully why it was Sigmarized.


I set up a really cool battlefield for our 40k game tonight. I'll be GMing & running the NPCs while the three boys and my friend play. I also came up with an interesting way of handling the buildings... if it works out it'll be something I do frequently, at least in my home games. I'll take pictures to share.

Plenty of time .. two Weekends to go !

Hopefully you took a few pictures of the weeks events.

Test figure. All it's missing are the shoulder transfers. This scheme is an amalgam of the pictures of EC out of Book One. Elements you see here are common to every figure pictured. Sergeants & commanders will get more gold, less silver.

Gitsy, if I could offer come advice, replace almost all the silver with gold on the armor and some parts of the bolter. Not only is this the more traditional EC scheme, you will upping the contrast interaction by miles. These guys are blinged to the 9's, 2nd only to BA after all!

As an example, just that gold hilt on the dagger, look how active it is and how it draws the eye to it like a target because compared to the other metals the contrast vs the purple is in a different league -

All imho of course! You may of course disagree!

The armour looks great Gits but I gotta agree with MajorTom on this one, more gold would be the best way to go, and if you need to bling them up more for sarge's and special marines just add more bits! :-)

Yup, bitz, red, even more gold (complete kneecaps for example) markings etc... but honestly, replacing all the silver (well almost, not the bolter barrel or magazine etc) for gold on your example is kinda bare minimum for traditional EC.

I agree with you both, I was just going off the pictures in the book, which have far more silver than gold. Not having a "background" in EC myself, I didn't have anything else to go on.

No need to justify your work Gits :-) what you've done is still great it's just that more silver usually speaks to hobbyists as Alpha Legion at a glance.

Looks like I need t touch up the purple by his brow...

Let's just say that Forge World sometimes messes around with things with no real reason to. It doesn't mean that their schemes aren't sometimes cooler too (Alpha Legion metallic green/blue is pretty cool compared to the lavender and neon green). But for EC, gotta say, the silver doesn't blow up my skirt at all. White is a great color to call out officers etc for them, in addition to bits and more gold -

For me, this kinda stuff is the epitome of pre-chaos EC schemes -















Automatically Appended Next Post:
ninja'd! Lookin good now, nice!

New version is king of bling. Very nice indeed, though I did like the silver edge trim on the pads.

Definitely like the gold better . Plus where is that version of the primarch from?

I prefer the gold too. I think the gold you've used is a bit too rich and coppery. I think a gold moving towards a slightly more silvery colour would be better. However, the gold is definitely best, plus it matches the transfers better by the look of it. It might look better with some almost-silver highlights?

I prefer the gold, looks very nice Git's.

Liking it!

Awesome reference material from major tom there, almost makes me want to do EC!

EDC

Very nice, Gits.
For what it's worth, I like both the silver and gold schemes!

Gold looks a million times better Git. He is very sharp!

I prefer the gold. Really shows the depth of the purple. Going to be a very pretty army.

Might be nice to see some swirls (like Damo does) on the gun casing. Maybe other places on the Sgt and other important folk.

That looks great, Gits.

Just a reminder... I'm really up against it time-wise. I want to get these guys to a fundamental state of decent painting before Adepticon. Details and frippary can come later.

All I'm hearing is excuses when you could be painting!

Friperry... he went there...

Everyone step back, give the man some room!

Are they still Emperors Children if they are lacking in frippery?

I'm Roger, Roger the Fripper

 nerdfest09 wrote:
I'm Roger, Roger the Fripper

Indeed, you are Nerdfest. Indeed, you are.

Nice work, Gits. Love the purples.

The purple looks great.
Also love the added warmth given by the gold.

That purple is so luscious and deep.

Will these be for Adeptacon?

Very nice, but expected from a guy whom wins every painting prize at local tourneys!

I like the silver tbh, the gold does make them contrast more, so decide and get to it .. you have 9 days!

 deadmeat85 wrote:

LOL!!! . Thank You, audible chuckles were had.


Gits to painting or we'll get the hose out

I have been painting... every night. It's just going incredibly slowly. I hope to have the tactical squad tonight... hopefully.

Keep going, Gits. You're almost there.

If you could bang out that halloween army in a month, a few tactical squads should be nothing! You can do it, hold fast!

If you get burnt out by painting the same basic power armor guys, you could liven it up with a little frippery.

Thanks guys. It's been a lot of mundane schedule interruptions compounded by a bad cold that just won't go away. Has made it very difficult to sustain prolonged painting sessions. Tonight I have the decals left to do, which will probably take all night as it's really difficult to get the decals to conform to the curved surfaces of the shoulder pads.

Sounds like Nurgle is saying you should have done Death Guard instead of Emperor's Prancy little Gits . Get better, chicken soup and vodka

 Theophony wrote:
Sounds like Nurgle is saying you should have done Death Guard instead of Emperor's Prancy little Gits . Get better, chicken soup and vodka

Vodka? Not heard of that as a cold remedy. Gin works well though. A friend of mine swears by warm bourbon and honey for coughs, but that’s more focused. The major problem with alcohol for health is that it impacts your painting.

Subbed!! Love that purple!

Hey Styro, nice to see you! Hopefully I'll have something interesting for you to look at very soon.

I have no doubt!

Hopefully you'll be healed up in a week, Remember there is no painting score in these games so tabletop is good for now. Hope you feel better.

Same Gits, I'm going through the same struggle. Deathwatch and colds aren't a good combo I have to say. I'll keep trucking through it with ya!

Gits, are you using decal softening and then fixing solution?

Keep up the momentum Gits! The ECs are coming along nicely and I'm sure will look fantastic once complete. Decals are a pain to apply so much sure you do the normal stuff like laying down a layer of gloss, using proper solution and precutting them at appropriate places to aid in their conformation.

Well, progress tonight. I taught Thing1 how to do the decals (yes, have the appropriate solutions on-hand). He placed all the diving eagle decals on the left shoulders. The third legion pads are next & those are much tougher to get sitting right due to their size and relatively square shape. I've started work on the melta unit & centurion. When the tac squad is finally done, I'll post a pic. Really hoping that tomorrow will be it.

Looking forward to it!

So, the tactical squad will definitely be done this evening. Have about six decals to go and some shrubbery on the bases... that won't take long.

I'm ready to start the gold on the melta gunners. I must admit that I'm not entirely happy with the gold on the tac squad, so I'm going to try a different paint. It's an oil-base and gives an amazing metallic color... but it's not a treat to work with. Worth experimenting with though & it's only 5 figures to have to work with.

Cool.. good job on using child labor of your making! I need to borrow one or Adopt Ramos... ( probably couldn't afford the food bill )

Tactical squad finished with the exception of the vexilla which will be added at a later date... hopefully...

They look outstanding Git, that gold just makes them pop that extra mile. I'm a sucker for command frills, your sergeant looks great!

Thanks Spacewolverine. They're all pretty basic, but they'll do. Still a long way to go.

That dark purple really makes the gold pop.

Very nice work Gits!

Very rich. They look excellent, amigo!

The gold's nice, but it looks kind of...flat. Could use a little washing and maybe mix some with some bright silver for a highlight?

 Kepora wrote:
The gold's nice, but it looks kind of...flat. Could use a little washing and maybe mix some with some bright silver for a highlight?

Later.. Stay on target. I'm sure he'll get to these again, right now he needs a complete army to play!

Looking good! Excellent contrast between the gold and the purple!

Good call on the black bolter casings, purple was a bit much. I think adding the swirls or vexilla (aren't those musical notes or something?) will tie the purple and gold together more, but like SL said, that is for later.

@Kepora: I agree, the gold is a bit lack-luster.... it IS however... washed and highlighted. No silver through... I'm a bit leery of that after the "silver backlash" ignited after I posted the first test pic. The purple gradient shows up very nicely in the pic though, I'm happy about that.

@WM: Yeah, still work to do on these to make them "right", but for the nonce at least they're recognizable and neatly painted. Good base for whatever comes next.

With a bit of luck, I might be able to get the melta squad done tonight. I'll start the gold right when I get home. I'm hoping that with only 5 figures it'll go quite a bit faster than before.

No no, you highlight gold with silver/gold mix, don't be afraid! And don't be afraid to shade down significantly too... you could on a gold undercoat blend from black to sanguine base to gold to gold silver right up to pure silver if you really want to. Don't be afraid of contrast!

Have you given GW's Retributor Armour gold paint a try? It is wonderful stuff that gives a beautiful, consistent coverage.

And kudos for using the word "nonce" in its original way, although that may be a UK/US thing.

The squad looks fantastic. I am out of my league with painting compared to you lot. But I would. E more than happy to call it a day on that tactical squad. They look brilliant.