Ok, I think this will be a fun exercise. This will also give the viewers insight to how certain armies would work. I will also give limited Tactics and tips with regards to each specific scenario. The more information you can give me, the more specific and accurate my tactics and predictions will be. Use the format:
Points:
Missions:
If there are any specific missions you are looking at. For example, ITC, Nova, ETC, book missions, etc. If no missions are specified, I will assume ITC as that is the prevalent Standard currently. If you have a custom mission, you can specify.
My Army:
You can post your list, or you can say something like this: War Convocation with Blood Angels drop pods and the Culexus. The more detail you can provide, the better.
Opponent's Army:
Either post the list or give a description of the opposing army if you don't know.
For example:
Points: 1850
Missions: ITC
My Army: Tyranids, 5 flyrants, 4 mawlocs, Mucolid troops
I will give you general tactics for Your Army (not for the Opponent's army) and my prediction on who will win in such a matchup.
To be fair, I will only do 1 request per person until all the current day's requests are completed. Then I will go back and do another request from the same person if there are no other requests on the queue from other people.
Also, once per week, if I see a matchup I like here, I may even do a Battle Report on it.
Mission
Primary-6 objectives 2 in each deployment zone and 2 in no mans land
Secondary- maelstrom the one where you draw up to three each round.
My army: Militarum Tempestus
Airborne Assault Formation
Valks all have multi rocket pods
Command squad has 4 plasma guns
3x5 man squads with 2 melta guns each
CAD Command squad with 4 hotshot volley guns
2x5 man squads with volley guns
2 tauroxes with missile launchers and twinlinked autocannons. One taurox has camo netting
Opponents list: Space marine Gladius Strike Force
10 razorbacks at least a few with lascannons and some with assault cannons
6 tactical
2 devastator with grav cannons
2 assault squads
3 scout squads
I don't know what else is required for gladius but that is probably also included.
Still fairly new to tempestus so really just looking for some tactical tips for against mechanized infantry.
So, this Saturday, my buddy and I are going to be running the first mission out of the Curse of the Wulfen campaign. If you're not familiar with it, Space Wolf player gets a standard Hammer and Anvil deployment setup, while the Daemon player gets the rest of the board to set up. The Daemon player has to deploy six objectives in his deployment zone. My Wulfen cannot be deployed until I "find" them, by having a model end their Movement phase within 3" of an Objective marker and "searching" it. I roll a D6, and on a 6, all of my Wulfen units deploy from that objective, and can resolve their Shooting and Assault Phases as normal. Additionally, all units on the battlefield gain Shrouded and Run 2d6 (drop the highest). This will be a 2k point game.
My list will be as follows, using a Wolf Claw Strike Force with 2 Ironwolves Greatpacks and a Wulfen Murderpack:
1x Wolf Lord w/ Runic Armour
1 x Wolf Guard Battle Leader (no upgrades)
2 x Long Fangs (3 models, 2 Missile Launchers) in Rhinos (all upgrades)
2 x Blood Claws (10 models, 1 Flamer) in Rhinos (all upgrades)
2 x Blood Claws (5 models, 1 Flamer) in Drop Pods (all upgrades)
2 x Grey Hunters (10 models, 1 Wolf Guard Terminator Pack Leader, 2 Meltaguns) in Drop Pods (all upgrades)
2 x Land Speeders with Assault Cannons and Multi-Meltas
2 x Land Speeders with Assault Cannons and Heavy Flamers
2 x Wulfen (5 models, 2 TH/SS, 2 Frost Claws, 1 Pack Leader, 1 Stormfrag Auto-Launcher)
My opponent will be bringing a pure Daemon force. I can't say for certain what he's going to be taking, except that he must take a Daemon Prince with the Daemon of Nurgle special rule to be his Warlord, per the mission outlines. I would also expect to see at least one winged Bloodthirster (probably packing the D), Flesh Hounds, and Skull Cannons. I would not be surprised to see more Daemon Princes or Greater Daemons. Bloodletters, Plaguebearers, Nurglings, and Pink Horrors might also make an appearance. I would not expect to see any Daemon-summoning unless my opponent brings Khorne Daemonkin for the Blood Tithe.
Personally, I think I'm going to have the advantage here, because I should be able to get to most of the objectives by turn 2 at the latest - and in my experience, the Wulfen are one of the nastiest melee units in the game right now. But if you have any extra insights, I'd be happy to hear them!
Mission
Primary-6 objectives 2 in each deployment zone and 2 in no mans land
Secondary- maelstrom the one where you draw up to three each round.
My army: Militarum Tempestus
Airborne Assault Formation
Valks all have multi rocket pods
Command squad has 4 plasma guns
3x5 man squads with 2 melta guns each
CAD Command squad with 4 hotshot volley guns
2x5 man squads with volley guns
2 tauroxes with missile launchers and twinlinked autocannons. One taurox has camo netting
Opponents list: Space marine Gladius Strike Force
10 razorbacks at least a few with lascannons and some with assault cannons
6 tactical
2 devastator with grav cannons
2 assault squads
3 scout squads
I don't know what else is required for gladius but that is probably also included.
Still fairly new to tempestus so really just looking for some tactical tips for against mechanized infantry.
This will be a tough matchup for your Tempestus. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe your Tempestus are ObSec, no? But even if they were, his ObSec units outnumber yours and you guys are playing objectives both for the Primary and the Secondary. Also, you are running flyers which won't really land to claim objectives, at least not until the end of the game. His mobile, metallic boxes protect his troops from the majority of your anti-infantry firepower and your anti-tank isn't very strong.
Tips/Tactics:
Try to go 2nd. You CANNOT let him have the final say on an Objectives-based mission. I would go with a Denial strategy. Hide your units initially and don't give him any easy targets. Then wait for your reserves to come in and then hit him hard (hope you have a way to control your reserves). Sacrifice your melta-squads to blow up his tanks if necessary. Heck, go all out on the turn your reserves come in and maximize on taking out his vehicles. Then, your anti-infantry weaponry will have plenty of targets.
Be prepared to lose on the Maelstrom mission. Gladius Battle Company is just too good in that. Try to beat him on the Primary (hence, going 2nd) and the Bonus objectives. If you can get First Blood, then you will have the advantage with the strategy and a chance to win. Otherwise, you are fighting an uphill battle.
So, this Saturday, my buddy and I are going to be running the first mission out of the Curse of the Wulfen campaign. If you're not familiar with it, Space Wolf player gets a standard Hammer and Anvil deployment setup, while the Daemon player gets the rest of the board to set up. The Daemon player has to deploy six objectives in his deployment zone. My Wulfen cannot be deployed until I "find" them, by having a model end their Movement phase within 3" of an Objective marker and "searching" it. I roll a D6, and on a 6, all of my Wulfen units deploy from that objective, and can resolve their Shooting and Assault Phases as normal. Additionally, all units on the battlefield gain Shrouded and Run 2d6 (drop the highest). This will be a 2k point game.
My list will be as follows, using a Wolf Claw Strike Force with 2 Ironwolves Greatpacks and a Wulfen Murderpack:
1x Wolf Lord w/ Runic Armour
1 x Wolf Guard Battle Leader (no upgrades)
2 x Long Fangs (3 models, 2 Missile Launchers) in Rhinos (all upgrades)
2 x Blood Claws (10 models, 1 Flamer) in Rhinos (all upgrades)
2 x Blood Claws (5 models, 1 Flamer) in Drop Pods (all upgrades)
2 x Grey Hunters (10 models, 1 Wolf Guard Terminator Pack Leader, 2 Meltaguns) in Drop Pods (all upgrades)
4 x Land Speeders with Assault Cannons and Missile Launchers
2 x Wulfen (5 models, 2 TH/SS, 2 Frost Claws, 1 Pack Leader, 1 Stormfrag Auto-Launcher)
My opponent will be bringing a pure Daemon force. I can't say for certain what he's going to be taking, except that he must take a Daemon Prince with the Daemon of Nurgle special rule to be his Warlord, per the mission outlines. I would also expect to see at least one winged Bloodthirster (probably packing the D), Flesh Hounds, and Skull Cannons. I would not be surprised to see more Daemon Princes or Greater Daemons. Bloodletters, Plaguebearers, Nurglings, and Pink Horrors might also make an appearance. I would not expect to see any Daemon-summoning unless my opponent brings Khorne Daemonkin for the Blood Tithe.
Personally, I think I'm going to have the advantage here, because I should be able to get to most of the objectives by turn 2 at the latest - and in my experience, the Wulfen are one of the nastiest melee units in the game right now. But if you have any extra insights, I'd be happy to hear them!
Edited for clarity.
So what is the win condition? How do you win? Do you need to have more objectives than your opponent at the end of the game, or do you just need to reveal the objectives by rolling 6's? Do Bonus Tertiary points count (i.e. First Blood, Warlord, Linebreaker)?
I can't predict who will win if I don't know the win conditions.
Also, does the Shrouded and Run-2D6"-pick-the-highest applies to Daemons as well or just to the Wolves?
Derp. Space Wolves win if the Wulfen are found and at least one of them (the Wulfen) lives to the end of the game. Any other result is a victory to the Daemons.
8 Plague Drones, rot proboscis (3+ poison)
8 Screamers of Tzeentch
8 Screamers of Tzeentch
In case it matters, my group plays with the nurgle dudes being able to roll twice on the new nurgle table (so fishing for +3 T on the plague drones is real)
Nice ya that sounds pretty likely. I can kill the vehicles but then the guys get killed off quick. Cool thread you got going here though. I'll have to think of another one lol.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also ya the formation comes in with one rerollable roll so I can probably get them in turn two. One out of 7 games they haven't so that's not too bad.
So, this Saturday, my buddy and I are going to be running the first mission out of the Curse of the Wulfen campaign. If you're not familiar with it, Space Wolf player gets a standard Hammer and Anvil deployment setup, while the Daemon player gets the rest of the board to set up. The Daemon player has to deploy six objectives in his deployment zone. My Wulfen cannot be deployed until I "find" them, by having a model end their Movement phase within 3" of an Objective marker and "searching" it. I roll a D6, and on a 6, all of my Wulfen units deploy from that objective, and can resolve their Shooting and Assault Phases as normal. Additionally, all units on the battlefield gain Shrouded and Run 2d6 (drop the highest). This will be a 2k point game.
My list will be as follows, using a Wolf Claw Strike Force with 2 Ironwolves Greatpacks and a Wulfen Murderpack:
1x Wolf Lord w/ Runic Armour
1 x Wolf Guard Battle Leader (no upgrades)
2 x Long Fangs (3 models, 2 Missile Launchers) in Rhinos (all upgrades)
2 x Blood Claws (10 models, 1 Flamer) in Rhinos (all upgrades)
2 x Blood Claws (5 models, 1 Flamer) in Drop Pods (all upgrades)
2 x Grey Hunters (10 models, 1 Wolf Guard Terminator Pack Leader, 2 Meltaguns) in Drop Pods (all upgrades)
2 x Land Speeders with Assault Cannons and Multi-Meltas
2 x Land Speeders with Assault Cannons and Heavy Flamers
2 x Wulfen (5 models, 2 TH/SS, 2 Frost Claws, 1 Pack Leader, 1 Stormfrag Auto-Launcher)
My opponent will be bringing a pure Daemon force. I can't say for certain what he's going to be taking, except that he must take a Daemon Prince with the Daemon of Nurgle special rule to be his Warlord, per the mission outlines. I would also expect to see at least one winged Bloodthirster (probably packing the D), Flesh Hounds, and Skull Cannons. I would not be surprised to see more Daemon Princes or Greater Daemons. Bloodletters, Plaguebearers, Nurglings, and Pink Horrors might also make an appearance. I would not expect to see any Daemon-summoning unless my opponent brings Khorne Daemonkin for the Blood Tithe.
Personally, I think I'm going to have the advantage here, because I should be able to get to most of the objectives by turn 2 at the latest - and in my experience, the Wulfen are one of the nastiest melee units in the game right now. But if you have any extra insights, I'd be happy to hear them!
Edited for clarity and to fix list derp.
PrinceOfMadness wrote: Derp. Space Wolves win if the Wulfen are found and at least one of them lives to the end of the game. Any other result is a victory to the Daemons.
Ok. Your army has great mobility, which is perhaps one of the most important factors in this game, at least for your army. Also, while your Assault is pretty good, nothing beats a Daemon Assault army with a Grimoired 2++/3++ unit (unless you are running a super-melee unit like the Wolfstar). If your opponent is savvy, he can make it very, very hard for you to win. Put all 6 objectives as close together to each other as possible and close to a table corner. Then bubble-wrap the entire thing with Daemons so that your drop pods cannot deepstrike in. In order to get to the objectives, you will have to go through layers of Daemons. It is basically a game of time management. The longer it takes for you to reach an objective, the greater the chances for a Daemon victory. However, I cannot say for sure whether your Daemon opponent will be savvy enough to do this.
Tips/Tactics:
Obviously, it doesn't hurt for you to go first. If you can go first, you will have a slight advantage in that you can hit his Daemons first with your alpha-strike. Don't be in too much of a rush to go after the objectives. Revealing them too early might get your Wulfen killed. Go after the objectives instead on Turn 2 or 3. Use at least 1 of your drop pods as a "bait" unit and drop them off on the periphery of the objectives. If he goes after it, then re-direct the rest of your units towards his "weaker" side. Attack him where his allocation of forces is weakest. You really don't want to fight his main force head-on. Watch out for the Bloodthirster when he is Grimoire'd up....he is just too strong.
After your initial firepower, advance your ENTIRE army, even the long fangs. Go flat-out if you have to. You need all the help that you can get in melee. You don't necessarily need to beat his Assault units in combat. You just need to feed him a steady stream of sacrificial units until you manage to "find" the wulfen. When you find them, if you have any transports left still running, embark at least 1 squad into the rhino and then get the heck out of Dodge. You stand a decent chance of winning, but only if you find a way to spread out his army and have all of your units near the action. A Daemon army is just too strong if they stay together and any units that you have away from the action (i.e. long fangs shooting from range) is a unit that he can ignore.
Prediction:
It will be a hard-fought battle and you won't have very much left at the end. However, with smart tactics and depending on when the Wulfen show up, your Space Wolves stand an above-average chance to win this battle.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
cranect wrote: Nice ya that sounds pretty likely. I can kill the vehicles but then the guys get killed off quick. Cool thread you got going here though. I'll have to think of another one lol.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also ya the formation comes in with one rerollable roll so I can probably get them in turn two. One out of 7 games they haven't so that's not too bad.
Excellent! Controlling your reserves is key to a Null-Deployment/Denial strategy.
Also since the primary is worth more do you think I should try to whittle the vehicles down some for 2-3 turns and then pile out and annihilate the infantry? So far I have been able to kill either the vehicles or the infantry but not both before they get deleted. The tauroxes should be able to get a 3+ cover fairly easily and can probably either kill or do serious damage to 2 razorbacks a turn.
cranect wrote: Also since the primary is worth more do you think I should try to whittle the vehicles down some for 2-3 turns and then pile out and annihilate the infantry? So far I have been able to kill either the vehicles or the infantry but not both before they get deleted. The tauroxes should be able to get a 3+ cover fairly easily and can probably either kill or do serious damage to 2 razorbacks a turn.
In a Gladius army, both the infantry unit and their rides are ObSec. So both needs to die equally. Kill off the vehicle with anything that can kill them - meltas, plasmas and the tauroxes (though don't risk your Warlord too early if you guys are playing Slay the Warlord bonus point). Save your Hot-shot volleys for the infantry. Unfortunately, I don't believe you have the firepower to annihilate both as you will be losing models as well from his firepower.
Here is the key strategy - KILL HIS MOBILITY! That'll prevent him from getting to the far objectives.
BTW, he may have a way to Ignore Cover if he is running a White Scars Gladius. Make sure to check with him if he has the Hunter's Eye Relic. If he does, then be careful for your tauroxes.
It's either ultras or I think imperial fists although I think he normally goes ultras. Ok ya ill try to blow some of them up with my vehicles for a turn or maybe two and get into position to drop out and blast them. Thanks for the tips.
8 Plague Drones, rot proboscis (3+ poison)
8 Screamers of Tzeentch
8 Screamers of Tzeentch
In case it matters, my group plays with the nurgle dudes being able to roll twice on the new nurgle table (so fishing for +3 T on the plague drones is real)
I see. So your Tyranids against Nick's Daemons? As you didn't mention the mission, I will assume ITC. I will also go with Tyranids as your army with respect to the tactics.
This matchup will be a tough one for the Tyranids. Daemons are just too damn resilient. Dronestar will have 2+ cover in ruins, plus FNP. Screamerstar will be nigh-unkillable if he gets the Grimoire going + Forewarning or Cursed Earth. That is basically 2 very fast and near-invincible units, at least for Tyranids.
Tips/Tactics:
You would want to go 2nd for the objectives. Forget about going 1st. You won't get any meaningful alpha-strikes as Fateweaver should either be hiding or in Reserves if unable to hide. Same with the Screamerstar if they cannot deploy out of LOS or range. Only the Dronestar will be deployed and with 2+ cover and 5+ FNP, you won't do much to them. Actually shooting them is a waste of time, as is targeting a buffed-up screamerstar.
Spread out the objectives. The last thing you want to do is to put them close together so that his Dronestar has easy access to guard them. Ideal placement would be to spread them to the 4 corners. Go after any vulnerable unit that is unbuffed. If Fateweaver presents himself (and he doesn't have a re-rollabe 2++), then you can go after him. Positioning is everything for your flyrants. Keep in mind that he will re-direct your flyrants one way and then turbo-boost the opposite direction, thus forcing your flyrants to fly off the table and lose 1 turn of shooting.
You have 2 main advantages. First of all, he doesn't have very much offense to deal with your flyrants. Secondly, you are running MSU so are slightly better in Objectives missions as long as you spread out your objectives (that is, until your lictors start dying and he starts summoning more and more units). Also, when the opportunity presents itself, lock up his Screamerstar with your Mawlocs. They are resilient enough to lock it in place for several turns. The problem is trying to catch them, but if you do manage to get them in assault, than that is a big advantage for you. If his Screamerstar isn't free to move around, then you've won half the battle.
Finally, you can feed his Dronestar a sacrificial unit to tie them up. If you can keep them from from moving around too much - even by sacrificing your own units to do so - then you will be in a good position. His army is a Board Control army. If you can control his Movement, then you would have achieved Positional Dominance and in doing so, you will be able to control the game much better.
Prediction:
This game is almost a toss-up. He's got 2 unkillable units with his 2 deathstars. You've got 4 with your flyrants. He does have a slight advantage with Summoning because as you are losing units, he is gaining units. I'd say this game is 55/45 in favor of Daemons but really, the winner of this game will be 1) the more experienced general and 2) if he is going 2nd.
LOL this has allready been posted. Well done Yoyoyo =)
It'd be interesting to hear your predictions on the match in batrep, if you haven't read it yet. Mutant Division vs Choppy marines. With this stuff:
As it's not clear, we currently play the way that you roll 4+ before deployment and than attached characters can also charge out of deepstrike (Calgar, yay), and re-roll charge range and don't loose attacks on multi-charge when they're with VV. It'd be interesting to see your predictions with both results.
I've actually played against that formation along with Skyhammer and Pinion Company. It's potentially a very brutal army. Unfortunately for my opponent, I went first and by Turn 2, he conceded.
I am... curious. Very well! Jy2 always gives good insight so I will allow this thought exercise to continue! I will even post myself, to see how Jy2s thoughts compare to my own on the matter.
Now I've tested this list (or similar ones to it) against most of the top armies of the current meta, with the exception of Crons for some reason. So, I've decided a good match up would be the top Cron list from LVO, what I think is a solid representation of a good Cron list.
I'll assume you're ignoring player skill in this case, as I'm very unlikely to meet the player of this list in South Florida, but I'd be curious to hear your thoughts. I'll offer my own once you have, but I don't want to give you my ideas.
Here's one for you, taken from game 2 of a recent tournament experience. I'm interested to hear what I could have done to turn this one into a win.
Points: 1850
Mission: Not sure if its an official mission type (ITC, etc.), but the primary objective is escalated killpoints (2 points per unit killed), and the secondary objective is progressive take and hold points that award 2 points per turn for controlling the one closer to you and 4 points per turn for controlling the one farther away from you. Half the points if you contest it.
My army:
Spoiler:
Dark Angels CAD HQ:
Librarian on foot with ML2
Troops:
Scout Squad with 4 Sniper Rifles and a Heavy Bolter, with Camo Cloaks
5 man Tactical Squad with Combiplasma and Plasmagun in a Razorback w/TL Lascannon
Fast Attack:
Drop Pod w/Deathwind Launcher
Heavy Support:
10 man Devastator Squad with 2 Lascannons and 2 Gravcannons and a Rhino (I combat squadded them of course!)
Ravenwing Strike Force:
HQ:
Librarian on a Bike with ML2 and an Auspex
Elites:
Ravenwing Command Squad (6 man) with Apothecary, Champion, RW banner, and 1 grenade launcher
Fast Attack:
Darkshroud
Ravenwing Bike Squad with 6 bikes and a MM attack bike, 2 gravguns, a Power Sword and Melta Bombs on the Sgt.
Ravenwing Bike Squad with 3 bikes, 2 gravguns, Melta Bombs, Lightning Claw and Veteran upgrade on the Sgt.
Ravenwing Land Speeder with TML
Ravenwing Land Speeder with Assault Cannon and MM Officio Assassinorum Detachment:
Culexus Assassin (in the pod)
Opponent's army: Ad Mech War Convocation with BA pods and Culexus. Can't remember what units/upgrades exactly.
You're in luck, jifel. I actually played against Alex Fennell's LVO Necron list and will be posting a battle report of it in my LVO reports. Part I will come out this week and Part II will be next week.
- Nemesis Strike Force
GK Librarian - ML3, Domina Liber Daemonica
GK Terminators - 1 Daemon Hammer, 1 Psycannon
Dreadknight - Personal Teleporter, Heavy Psycannon, Heavy Incinerator, Daemon Hammer
Kaldor Draigo (245pts)
I'll make the following assumptions:
1) ITC missions.
2) You're playing Draigostar
The CSM list has a few traits that will give the Draigostar some problems. It's got a number of units with no armor saves (Spawns, Daemons). It's also a MSU list, which is something that will potentially give your mini-Centstar problems.
Normally, I prefer a bigger Centstar unit if you're going to tack on all those characters, but in this case, 3 centurions is ok against MSU units of 1. You can reliably take down 2 Mutilators or Obliterators a turn with your mini-star. You've also got the advantage of multiple Banishments against his Daemon force.
Tips/Tactics:
You're going to want to go for Perfect Timing with Tigurius. You're also going to want to go 2nd because he is most likely going to Deepstrike his Oblits. Therefore, you don't need to worry about his Alpha-strike (and if he deploys them instead, just put Draigo in front to tank their shots, though I believe that will be a bad deployment strategy on his part). His army plays to the Objectives slightly better than yours due to all of his MSU units and his 2 fast and tough Spawn units. Target priority is key here. Don't worry too much about his Spawns initially (unless if he offers you no other targets). Go after the easier to kill MSU units first, starting with the Oblits. If your mini-star isn't getting about 2 kills a turn for the smaller 1-man units or 1-kill for the larger non-Spawn squads, then you are behind.
He doesn't have anything that can reliably hurt your star too badly so his best chances of winning is to kill off your "support" units. Be aware of that. In this game, whoever can kill more of the opponent's supporting units - thus affecting their chances to take/contest objectives - will have the advantage. Now if you really want to win, go with Daemon Summoning yourself. It isn't fluffy, but Tiggy can much, much more reliably summon Daemons than the Chaos list can.
Prediction:
Your mini-Centstar isn't terribly efficient. When you've got more characters in there than actual Centurions, it becomes too much support and not enough offense (my rule-of-thumb is no more characters in there than you have Centurions). You're actually going to have a tough time dealing with his Spawns. This is going to be a game of positioning and with his fast, resilient Spawn units and his MSU build, he's going to have an inherent advantage against you in that department. Dreadknight is a bonus for you, though I suspect a decent Chaos general will target him with the Oblits over your Centstar.
Overall, I think Chaos will take it here if you play nice. However, if you resort to Daemon Summoning as well (and if you do it every turn), then your army will be able to take it.
koooaei wrote: LOL this has allready been posted. Well done Yoyoyo =)
It'd be interesting to hear your predictions on the match in batrep, if you haven't read it yet. Mutant Division vs Choppy marines. With this stuff:
As it's not clear, we currently play the way that you roll 4+ before deployment and than attached characters can also charge out of deepstrike (Calgar, yay), and re-roll charge range and don't loose attacks on multi-charge when they're with VV. It'd be interesting to see your predictions with both results.
So I take it you are talking about the lists in your batrep. I'll re-post them here:
Mutant Division:
- Crymson Slaughter
Sorcerror [bike, ml3, baelstar, force axe, melta bombz, sigil, gift of mutation]
2*10 Cultists
2*5 Spawns [MoN]
- The Purge Detachment
Sorcerror [bike, ml3, spell familliar, force axe, melta bombz, sigil, gift of mutation]
6*1 Mutilators [MoN]
4*1 Obliterators [MoN]
-Daemons
Masque of Slaanesh
Herald of Tzeench [ml1]
10 Daemonettes [instrument, flag]
12 Horrors
VS Ultra-choppy Marines:
- Ultramarines
Calgar [termi armor]
Sarge Chronos in a Vindicator [storm bolter]
2*5 Space Marines [heavy bolters]
6 Honor Guards [maces, banner]
Stormraven [tl heavy bolter, tl assault cannon, tl hurricane bolter sponsons]
3 Devastator Centurions [grav, tl hurricane bolters]
Drop Pod [stormbolter]
- Charge-out-of-deepstrike UM vets - for those who's not familliar with this formation: vanguard vets can choose to pass or fail reserves, they don't scatter when within 12" from 2 squads of scouts and they can charge the turn they deepstrike and as it's not specified otherwise, attached characters also can charge out of deepstrike (Calgar, yay), also re-roll charge range and don't loose attacks on multi-charge.
5 Vanguard Veterans [axes]
5 Vanguard Veterans [maces]
2*5 Scouts [bolters] + Landspeeder Storm [tl heavy bolter]
Since you guys played pure Maelstroms, I will go with the same Mission scenario.
Just FYI, but I haven't read your battle report yet. I'll do it after my Analysis.
Tips/Tactics:
You're going to want to play a Denial-type strategy. Reserve all your MSU Oblits/Mutilators to Deepstrike them onto objectives later. Deepstrike your Daemon units as well, unless you decide to throw one out as a sacrificial unit. Throw out a sacrificial unit to bait his Vanguards, preferably away from any objectives (i.e. in one of the corner quadrants). Thus, if he goes for it, he will be out of position with regards to the majority of the objectives. He's not going to take the bait if it is a weak unit like the cultists, but if you put out one of your Spawn units (without characters attached), then there's a good chance he will go after them. Remember, deploy enough units such that if he assaults and kills one of them, you won't be tabled. Also, spread out those units so that there is no way for him to multi-assault.
Target Priority is also important. You won't be able to do much to the Stormraven until it lands, but take out those Land Speeder Storms AT ALL COSTS! If you can control the Movement Phase, then you can control the game but in order to do so, you need to take out his mobility.
Prediction:
Maelstrom is really a hard Mission type to predict. A lot of it is based off of the luck of the draw. If you draw 3 crap Maelstrom objectives and he draws 3 good ones, you are going to be in the hole from the get-go. But if we assume that you guys are drawing average cards where you both have about equal chances to achieve, I will give your Chaos the win in this matchup.
As Dark Eldar could I just ask for some general advice for beating Gladius? I have enough Dark Eldar to jiggery-pokery with my own list but his list at 1850 is Normal Gladius (6 Tacs, 2 Assault and 2 Devs) + a Stormraven and 2 Stormtalons, all Razorbacks are totting Heavy Bolters and all Tac squads house a Meltagun.
I like to run a variation on Jimsolo's freakshow list, Heroes Path + Dark Artisan formation plus A CAD Dark Eldar army. I use Raiders instead of Venoms because I am fond of the 3+ jink save but I could switch to Venoms if you believe it'll help against all his Obj.Sec.
It just seems like he can out score me, out shoot me and I can't out combat him or Psy-Shriek him to death or make him run off the board. Pain Engines are relatively survivable with their 4+-re-roll1's FNP but against Grav Gun Devastators they are living on borrowed time. Perhaps I should invest more heavily into Coven? Get a few more Talsoi and run a Corpse Thief Claw to punish him for MSU?
ALEXisAWESOME wrote: As Dark Eldar could I just ask for some general advice for beating Gladius? I have enough Dark Eldar to jiggery-pokery with my own list but his list at 1850 is Normal Gladius (6 Tacs, 2 Assault and 2 Devs) + a Stormraven and 2 Stormtalons, all Razorbacks are totting Heavy Bolters and all Tac squads house a Meltagun.
I like to run a variation on Jimsolo's freakshow list, Heroes Path + Dark Artisan formation plus A CAD Dark Eldar army. I use Raiders instead of Venoms because I am fond of the 3+ jink save but I could switch to Venoms if you believe it'll help against all his Obj.Sec.
It just seems like he can out score me, out shoot me and I can't out combat him or Psy-Shriek him to death or make him run off the board. Pain Engines are relatively survivable with their 4+-re-roll1's FNP but against Grav Gun Devastators they are living on borrowed time. Perhaps I should invest more heavily into Coven? Get a few more Talsoi and run a Corpse Thief Claw to punish him for MSU?
Sorry, Battle Company I know, but I am not an expert in the Dark Eldar army/formations nor am I really familiar with Jimsolo's Freakshow list. It'll help if you can be more specific with your DE army list composition.
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jifel wrote: I am... curious. Very well! Jy2 always gives good insight so I will allow this thought exercise to continue! I will even post myself, to see how Jy2s thoughts compare to my own on the matter.
Now I've tested this list (or similar ones to it) against most of the top armies of the current meta, with the exception of Crons for some reason. So, I've decided a good match up would be the top Cron list from LVO, what I think is a solid representation of a good Cron list.
I'll assume you're ignoring player skill in this case, as I'm very unlikely to meet the player of this list in South Florida, but I'd be curious to hear your thoughts. I'll offer my own once you have, but I don't want to give you my ideas.
The Void Shield Generator is good against Necrons. In most tournament formats, I believe it is ruled that Gauss cannot penetrate the Void Shields, thus basically rendering your army impervious to his shooting (unless he can get within 12" of the VSG).
Tips/Tactics:
Obviously, you'd want to go 2nd. There's no reason not to in an Objectives game, especially when you don't have to worry about his alpha-strike. Take out his Spider as early as possible with your flyrants. He's the reason why the wraithstar is near invincible. Keep in mind that Orikan's re-roll 1's on saves only affects units with RP. Thus, if you take out the Spider, the wraiths will lose both RP as well as the ability to re-roll 1's on saves.
After taking out his spider, then you can go after the other units. Flame his scarabs with the Hive Crone. They'll probably be hiding so it make take a couple of turns before you can do so. Take out his tomb blades as a high priority. They are the most mobile units in his army. Destroyers should be deepstriking in. When they come in, focus on 1 unit at a time til it dies. Basically, go after any mobile units as your priority - scarabs, destroyers and tomb blades. If you can immobilize his army (in other words, if you can control the Movement phase), then you will be in great shape.
As for the wraithstar, lock them up in combat with your Skytyrant. Try to hold them near the middle. It is a game of board control. Try to take out his scarabs early because they can really hurt your gargoyles with their Volume-of-Attacks (as a last resort, hit them with your Mawloc even if in close combat). If you can lock up his Wraithstar for most of the game, then you will be in good shape.
Your bugs do have the tools to fight the Necrons. The key to this game is proper target prioritization and whoever can control the Movement phase.
Prediction:
With the Void Shield Generator, I'd say you have a small advantage against the Necrons. It will be a super-close game and depending on whether you can take out his Spider and fast units in a timely manner (and whoever is going 2nd), you may actually be able to pull this one out. I'll give it to Tyranids in a tightly contested game.
Heroes Path formation:
Solitaire with Cegorarch's kiss
DeathJester
Shadowseer with Mask of Secrets Mastery level 2.
(Shadowseer throws all my dice at Shriek, which puts the opponent at -3 Leadership if within 12'' of both herself and the Pain Engines)
Dark Artisan formation:
Haemonculus with Scissorhands, Webway portal, Liquifier Gun and Sump.
Talosi with TL Liquifier + Heat Lance.
Chronus with Spirit Probe.
(Most durable Warlord I can buy, T7 4+ FNP re-rolling 1's. Good area denial. Deepstrike in and Flame a unit then act as area denial)
CAD Llhamaen in Venom with double cannons
2x10 Warriors with Splinter cannon's in Raiders with Dark lances, Night shields and Splinter racks
1 5 man warrior unit with Blaster inside doube cannon venom.
2x5 Scourges with 4 Haywire Blasters
1x3 Reavers with 1 Cluster Caltrops
2xDark Lance Ravager
(My Obj.Sec, everyone is mobile and has decent fire power. Has powerful AV but all that is tied to certain units and such is vulnerable to being counter striked)
I'm perhaps considering doing a switch about to include the Corpse theif Claw (5 Talosi, 1 unit, Scout, gains VP for every non-vehicle unit killed) by dropping the Dark Artisan and the Heroes Path formation but that unit is hard countered by D weapons and excess Grav. I have enough AV to knock out the first wave, but then when he fires his Heavy Bolters at my Ravagers they are forced to Jink or they just shred the Scourges, thus making me AV worth little and less.
Maelstrom is really a hard Mission type to predict. A lot of it is based off of the luck of the draw. If you draw 3 crap Maelstrom objectives and he draws 3 good ones, you are going to be in the hole from the get-go. But if we assume that you guys are drawing average cards where you both have about equal chances to achieve, I will give your Chaos the win in this matchup.
Great insight! I played a bit differently - leaving a landspeeder cause it was not ob-sec, though a very annoying one. But it was dictated with an unexpected 1-st turn luck in getting to assault and absolute misfortune in killing centurions. There were more important targets there for my limited board presence and mobility early on - as all of the spawns were locked in combat from turn 1-2. One squad was taking casualties against calgar + mace vets and the other couldn't finish off 3 centurions for half the game.
It was a fun game and yep, muties helped a lot. They weren't too killy but they controle the field well. I also like how masque performs. Seems, it'd be the only way to deal with deathstars for my orkses.
1004 points (I asked him to set a limit that I would match, he set 1004)
Space wolf CAD
Rune priest,
Grey hunters bolt guns and chains swords
Blood claws bolt guns and chain swords
Venerable dreadnaught with hell frost cannon and power fist
Venerable dreadnaught with storm shield and thunder axe?
Terminators with stuff
Potentially TWC with hammers and shields (doubt it though)
Not sure what else
I was half tempted to give some super trolly random matchup like fairly even 200 point kill teams using out of the book maelstrom missions, but I'm lazy, so just pretend I did that and laugh.
8 Plague Drones, rot proboscis (3+ poison)
8 Screamers of Tzeentch
8 Screamers of Tzeentch
In case it matters, my group plays with the nurgle dudes being able to roll twice on the new nurgle table (so fishing for +3 T on the plague drones is real)
I see. So your Tyranids against Nick's Daemons? As you didn't mention the mission, I will assume ITC. I will also go with Tyranids as your army with respect to the tactics.
This matchup will be a tough one for the Tyranids. Daemons are just too damn resilient. Dronestar will have 2+ cover in ruins, plus FNP. Screamerstar will be nigh-unkillable if he gets the Grimoire going + Forewarning or Cursed Earth. That is basically 2 very fast and near-invincible units, at least for Tyranids.
Tips/Tactics:
You would want to go 2nd for the objectives. Forget about going 1st. You won't get any meaningful alpha-strikes as Fateweaver should either be hiding or in Reserves if unable to hide. Same with the Screamerstar if they cannot deploy out of LOS or range. Only the Dronestar will be deployed and with 2+ cover and 5+ FNP, you won't do much to them. Actually shooting them is a waste of time, as is targeting a buffed-up screamerstar.
Spread out the objectives. The last thing you want to do is to put them close together so that his Dronestar has easy access to guard them. Ideal placement would be to spread them to the 4 corners. Go after any vulnerable unit that is unbuffed. If Fateweaver presents himself (and he doesn't have a re-rollabe 2++), then you can go after him. Positioning is everything for your flyrants. Keep in mind that he will re-direct your flyrants one way and then turbo-boost the opposite direction, thus forcing your flyrants to fly off the table and lose 1 turn of shooting.
You have 2 main advantages. First of all, he doesn't have very much offense to deal with your flyrants. Secondly, you are running MSU so are slightly better in Objectives missions as long as you spread out your objectives (that is, until your lictors start dying and he starts summoning more and more units). Also, when the opportunity presents itself, lock up his Screamerstar with your Mawlocs. They are resilient enough to lock it in place for several turns. The problem is trying to catch them, but if you do manage to get them in assault, than that is a big advantage for you. If his Screamerstar isn't free to move around, then you've won half the battle.
Finally, you can feed his Dronestar a sacrificial unit to tie them up. If you can keep them from from moving around too much - even by sacrificing your own units to do so - then you will be in a good position. His army is a Board Control army. If you can control his Movement, then you would have achieved Positional Dominance and in doing so, you will be able to control the game much better.
Prediction:
This game is almost a toss-up. He's got 2 unkillable units with his 2 deathstars. You've got 4 with your flyrants. He does have a slight advantage with Summoning because as you are losing units, he is gaining units. I'd say this game is 55/45 in favor of Daemons but really, the winner of this game will be 1) the more experienced general and 2) if he is going 2nd.
Haha great prediction. I played this game against him and it could have been a tie if I had thought to use my mawloc into combat on the last turn of the game. He made me go first and wouldn't even allow me to anti-sieze! (It's a fake mechanic that I came up with where you make the other person go first on a 1 lol)
Also FWIW they are also my Daemons now haha. It's the list I run, although I have been toying around with the D thirster and the khorne knight. All so solid.
ZergSmasher wrote: Here's one for you, taken from game 2 of a recent tournament experience. I'm interested to hear what I could have done to turn this one into a win.
Points: 1850
Mission: Not sure if its an official mission type (ITC, etc.), but the primary objective is escalated killpoints (2 points per unit killed), and the secondary objective is progressive take and hold points that award 2 points per turn for controlling the one closer to you and 4 points per turn for controlling the one farther away from you. Half the points if you contest it.
My army:
Spoiler:
Dark Angels CAD HQ:
Librarian on foot with ML2
Troops:
Scout Squad with 4 Sniper Rifles and a Heavy Bolter, with Camo Cloaks
5 man Tactical Squad with Combiplasma and Plasmagun in a Razorback w/TL Lascannon
Fast Attack:
Drop Pod w/Deathwind Launcher
Heavy Support:
10 man Devastator Squad with 2 Lascannons and 2 Gravcannons and a Rhino (I combat squadded them of course!)
Ravenwing Strike Force:
HQ:
Librarian on a Bike with ML2 and an Auspex
Elites:
Ravenwing Command Squad (6 man) with Apothecary, Champion, RW banner, and 1 grenade launcher
Fast Attack:
Darkshroud
Ravenwing Bike Squad with 6 bikes and a MM attack bike, 2 gravguns, a Power Sword and Melta Bombs on the Sgt.
Ravenwing Bike Squad with 3 bikes, 2 gravguns, Melta Bombs, Lightning Claw and Veteran upgrade on the Sgt.
Ravenwing Land Speeder with TML
Ravenwing Land Speeder with Assault Cannon and MM Officio Assassinorum Detachment:
Culexus Assassin (in the pod)
Opponent's army: Ad Mech War Convocation with BA pods and Culexus. Can't remember what units/upgrades exactly.
War Convocation is a top-tier build, especially if the general behind it is skilled. One of my teammates who is a Top 5 ITC player runs a very similar War Convo/BA/Culexus build as your opponent (some of you guys will know him as iNcontrol) and his army is really tough to play against. They've also got more special rules than I care to remember. Lol.
A few tricks of theirs that you should know.
1. They can get Stealth and Shrouding for 2 turns, so if you think you can get the alpha-strike against them, you are looking at shooting at units with 2+ cover for 2 turns.
2. Their alpha strike - 2 units of Grav kataphrons in drop pods - is super-nasty. Moreover, they have ways to cause -2 to your cover saves. Don't think your Ravenwing with its re-rollable cover saves is safe.
3. They've actually got some nasty assault units. I actually assaulted one of those units with my D-thirster before and got owned by them to my surprise.
4. His units are surprisingly fast. Dunestrider gives him +3" to move, +3" to run and +3" to assault. Keep a safe distance from his Skitarri assault guys if you don't want to get assaulted by them.
Tips/Tactics:
Going 1st or 2nd would depend on how the progressive objectives will be scored. If they are scored at the beginning of your next turn or at the end of each player turn, then go 1st. If they are scored at the end of each game turn, then consider going 2nd (you're not going to kill much of his army due to 2+ cover and he is still going to get the alpha-strike against your army). You're going to take your lumps from his alpha-strike no matter what. Just make sure to kill off those Kataphrons afterwards with both shooting and assault.
Knight will be a problem for your army as you just can't deal with it and all the other threats in his army at the same time. Same with his assault units. They might look scrawny, but they pack quite a punch. I've seen them (a unit of 5 only) kill bloodthirsters and wraithknights before so they're pretty deadly. Unfortunately, so is his shooting. Be careful of engaging them. You also don't want to engage the knight if he is armed with D weapon in CC. You know what they say, shoot the choppy ones and chop the shooty ones.
This is how he will play. Assault units and drop pod units will play aggressively and try to hold you in your deployment zone. His softer units and his Warlord will stay in his backfield and the Imperial Knight will play free safety in the middle. In case you go after his backfield, his Knight will go back to help out. He'll have a lot of units to contest your objective whereas you won't have much to contest his. Consider splitting up your army and put pressure on his backfield with your Ravenwing bike units. Use the melta squad to distract the Knight and clear out his backfield with your Command squad. It won't be easy, but it will be better than trying to fight his army while stuck in your deployment zone. Then, it'll be your game to lose as your objective will always be threatened while his remains safe from any of your threats.
Prediction:
War Convocation takes this one and they win big. There is a reason why War Convo is a top-tier build and you will find out soon enough why (barring really bad dice or a really crappy generalship by your opponent). They have so many dangerous units and their army is just full of tricks. If you had some form of Ignores Cover firepower or anti-deepstrike defense, you may stand a chance. But your army currently has a lot of units that won't really do too well against them. The Ravenwing part is good. I love their mobility. However, the more static CAD part of your army will be a liability in this game due to their lack of mobility.
Wow....I don't know if this will be much of a game. Pure Grey Knights are just gimped compared to all of the new stuff coming out today. I don't see him with much of a chance against your army. Grav is the bane to an elite GK army and they don't do too well against TH/SS terminators either. This is really going to be an uphill battle for the Knights.
I will assume that you are running Space Marines.
Tips/Tactics:
Going 1st or 2nd, it's not going to matter much to your Space Marines as you can choose to have Skyhammer come in on Turns 1 or 2. Either ways, when they do come in, they're pretty much going to f*ck up his army. But if you have the choice, choose to go 2nd.
However, watch out if he spreads out. Your army lacks the mobility to re-deploy rapidly once they come down. Now he isn't fast either, but the stormraven and dreadknight does have some mobility. You need to kill off his mobility. That means the dreadknight first and then the infantry. Don't worry too much about the Stormraven until it lands. Then you can try to take it out.
Prediction:
Unless he gets lucky with the Maelstrom objectives, this isn't going to end well for the Grey Knights. Space Marines take it. I wouldn't go so far as to call it a tabling, but the Stormraven may be the only thing still alive from his army by the end of the game.
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niv-mizzet wrote: I was half tempted to give some super trolly random matchup like fairly even 200 point kill teams using out of the book maelstrom missions, but I'm lazy, so just pretend I did that and laugh.
Would you like to join in as an Analyst? As you are a fairly astute player, perhaps you can give analysis of some of the matchups as well (in particular, the ones you specialize in such as Battle Company).
If anyone wants to try analyze and give predictions to any of the matchups here, feel free to give it a go.
Haha great prediction. I played this game against him and it could have been a tie if I had thought to use my mawloc into combat on the last turn of the game. He made me go first and wouldn't even allow me to anti-sieze! (It's a fake mechanic that I came up with where you make the other person go first on a 1 lol)
Also FWIW they are also my Daemons now haha. It's the list I run, although I have been toying around with the D thirster and the khorne knight. All so solid.
Thanks!
In my Daemon army, I am running the D-thirster and the Khorne Knight. They make for a very good combination. Took them to the LVO and they did quite well. You guys will read about my LVO experiences in the near future. The trend now is to go with Chaos Knights, especially in the ITC format where they are legal. Even Nick is running a Chaos Knight in his list currently.
I definitely like your thread here. I'm not the most competitive but reading some of these predictions of how things will play out may help me since I am starting to try to be more competitive with the tempestus anyway. I prefer footslogging orks and don't have a void shield so that hasnt worked very much because I can't reach combat. The tempestus require more thought though and so this is exactly the type of thread to read to get into the tactical mindset I think. So keep it up!
cranect wrote: I definitely like your thread here. I'm not the most competitive but reading some of these predictions of how things will play out may help me since I am starting to try to be more competitive with the tempestus anyway. I prefer footslogging orks and don't have a void shield so that hasnt worked very much because I can't reach combat. The tempestus require more thought though and so this is exactly the type of thread to read to get into the tactical mindset I think. So keep it up!
Thanks. It's fun to give these types of analysis and I hope it proves to be educational for those who want to learn to play a little more competitively also. But in the end, it's more about helping the community and to improving competitive play for those who want to.
Frozocrone wrote: 1500 pts, non-ITC. Either Eternal War or Maelstrom (rolled for before game)
IoM List 1 - Centurion + Thunderwolves
Spoiler:
White Scars CAD:
Librarian w/ Terminator Armour, Force Axe, Hunters Eye, ML 2 = 135
Librarian w/ Terminator Armour, Force Axe, ML2 = 115
I'm assuming you're the Space Marine+TWC player? I'll go from their perspective.
BTW, their tactic is illegal. Cannot put the Terminator Libbies with the GravCents in the Drop Pods. They take up 11 spaces and the Pod only has space for 10. You need to take off the Terminator armors from the Libbies. Also, give the other Libby an Auspex to reduce enemy cover saves by -1.
Tips/Tactics:
Take out his Spiders with your GravCents. They are always a priority target. It makes killing the rest of the army much, much easier. You can potentially kill 3 spiders in 1 turn depending on how he deploys. If you go 1st, they are dead because they won't have the chance to bring up Reanimation Protocols yet. If you go 2nd, well, you may or may not kill them. Once they go down, it becomes much, much easier to deal with his wraiths and scarabs.
While your Wolfstar can multi-charge, I'd recommend focusing on 1 unit of wraiths a turn because if you multi-assault, you might get stuck with his wraiths. If you focus on killing the unit by just assaulting 1 wraith unit at a time, you stand a better chance of not getting locked in combat. The last thing you'd want is to get tied up by 2-3 units of wraiths the entire game.
After you kill off his spiders, the next thing you'd want to do is to kill off his mobility. That means the 1) the tomb blades and 2) the scarabs. Even 1 unit of scarabs can tie up your much more expensive centurions for the entire game. Watch out for that. Best thing to do is to drop by an objective if possible. This way, at least you are contesting his objective even if your centurions get tarpitted.
Prediction:
If you guys play Maelstroms, the Marines are going to get clobbered pretty badly. Just too much MSU and too much mobility for the Marine list to handle. All he needs to do is to tie up your Wolfstar (wraiths) and the centurions (scarabs, perhaps spiders) and he'll have the advantage.
In Eternal War missions, I still favor the Necrons. His army plays to the Objectives much better than yours with his MSU units and his superior mobility.
ZergSmasher wrote: Here's one for you, taken from game 2 of a recent tournament experience. I'm interested to hear what I could have done to turn this one into a win.
Points: 1850
Mission: Not sure if its an official mission type (ITC, etc.), but the primary objective is escalated killpoints (2 points per unit killed), and the secondary objective is progressive take and hold points that award 2 points per turn for controlling the one closer to you and 4 points per turn for controlling the one farther away from you. Half the points if you contest it.
My army:
Spoiler:
Dark Angels CAD HQ:
Librarian on foot with ML2
Troops:
Scout Squad with 4 Sniper Rifles and a Heavy Bolter, with Camo Cloaks
5 man Tactical Squad with Combiplasma and Plasmagun in a Razorback w/TL Lascannon
Fast Attack:
Drop Pod w/Deathwind Launcher
Heavy Support:
10 man Devastator Squad with 2 Lascannons and 2 Gravcannons and a Rhino (I combat squadded them of course!)
Ravenwing Strike Force:
HQ:
Librarian on a Bike with ML2 and an Auspex
Elites:
Ravenwing Command Squad (6 man) with Apothecary, Champion, RW banner, and 1 grenade launcher
Fast Attack:
Darkshroud
Ravenwing Bike Squad with 6 bikes and a MM attack bike, 2 gravguns, a Power Sword and Melta Bombs on the Sgt.
Ravenwing Bike Squad with 3 bikes, 2 gravguns, Melta Bombs, Lightning Claw and Veteran upgrade on the Sgt.
Ravenwing Land Speeder with TML
Ravenwing Land Speeder with Assault Cannon and MM Officio Assassinorum Detachment:
Culexus Assassin (in the pod)
Opponent's army: Ad Mech War Convocation with BA pods and Culexus. Can't remember what units/upgrades exactly.
War Convocation is a top-tier build, especially if the general behind it is skilled. One of my teammates who is a Top 5 ITC player runs a very similar War Convo/BA/Culexus build as your opponent (some of you guys will know him as iNcontrol) and his army is really tough to play against. They've also got more special rules than I care to remember. Lol.
A few tricks of theirs that you should know.
1. They can get Stealth and Shrouding for 2 turns, so if you think you can get the alpha-strike against them, you are looking at shooting at units with 2+ cover for 2 turns.
2. Their alpha strike - 2 units of Grav kataphrons in drop pods - is super-nasty. Moreover, they have ways to cause -2 to your cover saves. Don't think your Ravenwing with its re-rollable cover saves is safe.
3. They've actually got some nasty assault units. I actually assaulted one of those units with my D-thirster before and got owned by them to my surprise.
4. His units are surprisingly fast. Dunestrider gives him +3" to move, +3" to run and +3" to assault. Keep a safe distance from his Skitarri assault guys if you don't want to get assaulted by them.
Tips/Tactics:
Going 1st or 2nd would depend on how the progressive objectives will be scored. If they are scored at the beginning of your next turn or at the end of each player turn, then go 1st. If they are scored at the end of each game turn, then consider going 2nd (you're not going to kill much of his army due to 2+ cover and he is still going to get the alpha-strike against your army). You're going to take your lumps from his alpha-strike no matter what. Just make sure to kill off those Kataphrons afterwards with both shooting and assault.
Knight will be a problem for your army as you just can't deal with it and all the other threats in his army at the same time. Same with his assault units. They might look scrawny, but they pack quite a punch. I've seen them (a unit of 5 only) kill bloodthirsters and wraithknights before so they're pretty deadly. Unfortunately, so is his shooting. Be careful of engaging them. You also don't want to engage the knight if he is armed with D weapon in CC. You know what they say, shoot the choppy ones and chop the shooty ones.
This is how he will play. Assault units and drop pod units will play aggressively and try to hold you in your deployment zone. His softer units and his Warlord will stay in his backfield and the Imperial Knight will play free safety in the middle. In case you go after his backfield, his Knight will go back to help out. He'll have a lot of units to contest your objective whereas you won't have much to contest his. Consider splitting up your army and put pressure on his backfield with your Ravenwing bike units. Use the melta squad to distract the Knight and clear out his backfield with your Command squad. It won't be easy, but it will be better than trying to fight his army while stuck in your deployment zone. Then, it'll be your game to lose as your objective will always be threatened while his remains safe from any of your threats.
Prediction:
War Convocation takes this one and they win big. There is a reason why War Convo is a top-tier build and you will find out soon enough why (barring really bad dice or a really crappy generalship by your opponent). They have so many dangerous units and their army is just full of tricks. If you had some form of Ignores Cover firepower or anti-deepstrike defense, you may stand a chance. But your army currently has a lot of units that won't really do too well against them. The Ravenwing part is good. I love their mobility. However, the more static CAD part of your army will be a liability in this game due to their lack of mobility.
As I said, this game was actually in the past, at my most recent tournament outing. What you said is very much what happened, except I didn't get a chance to really harass the Knight at all. He had it, a squad of Kataphron Breachers (with the arc weapons), and some Skitarii Rangers hiding in and behind some ruins for the whole game. From what you said, it was mainly a bad matchup for me, and that was definitely what happened. I might have more for you later on, although I'll wait and let others seek your wisdom first!
Mission:
Primary: 6 objectives two in each deployment zone and 2 in no mans land. Worth 3 points each at the end of the game. Winner gets 16, draw 12, loss 8
Secondary: Maelstrom Max of 8 points
Tertiary: Kill up to 4 enemy characters for up to 4 points
SLW and LB in effect
Total of 30 possible points
My Army
Militarum Tempestus
Ground Assault Formation
Commissar
Command Squad with 4 Volleyguns
5 man Scion Squad with 2 volleyguns
5 man Scion Squad with 2 volleyguns
5 man Scion Squad with 2 plasma guns
3 Taurox Primes with Missile Launchers, twin linked autocannons and camo netting
1 Taurox Prime with Battle Cannon, twin linked auto cannon, and camo netting
Airborne Assault Formation
Commissar
Command Squad with 4 Plasma Guns
3x 5 man Scion Squads with 2 melta Guns
4 Valkyries with Multi rocket pods
Opponents List
War Convocation with Librarious Conclave
There were 2 units of Kataphrons with the Grav
Other than that I dont really remember but it made the orks hurt a lot.
I think the tempestus could work well here but I am curious what you think would happen.
Tomorrow, my posts will slow down as I will be going out of town until Friday. I'll try to get to the matchups whenever I can get access to a computer.
Have a list, not sure what my opponent will have. Probably going to end up being 30k vs 40kBA. Either Straight Purge or a roll on the Eternal War table.
My Army:
30k Iron Warriors, 3000 points
Siege Breaker w/ Cataphractii Armor and a Chainfist
ML2 Librarian w/ Cataphractii Armor
2 15-man Legion Tactical Marines, Sarge w/ Artificer Armor
5 Recon Marines w/ Recon Armor, Sniper Rifles, Nuncio-vox
10 Legion Veterans w/ Sniper, two suspensor-web heavy bolters with Shrapnel Bolts (AP5 and pinning)
- in a Rhino w/ HB with Shrapnel Bolts and Dozer Blades
5 Legion Terminators w/ Heavy Flamer and 5x Power Fist
6 Tyrant Siege Terminators (Cataphractii Armor, 6x Cyclone Missle Launcher, Omni-scope on Sergeant.) w/ Combi Melta on Sergeant.
2x Legion Apothecaries w/ Artificer Armor, with the tacticals
Legion Dreadnaught w/ Multi Melta + Dreadnaught CC Weapon with underslung Melta gun. Has Ceramite Plating.
-In a Dreadnaught DropPod.
3 Legion Outriders w/ 3 Twin-Linked Melta Guns
5 Iron Havoc Support Marines (Tank Hunter, -1 to Cover Saves) w/5 Missile Launchers
The Primarch Perturabo w/ ForgeBreaker
Expected match-up- BA vehicle spam with a LR Redeemer and a ton of jump marines.
Dark Eldar/Eldar (dont know the exact compoisition) 2 Raiders with Aspect Fire Dragons + an archon w/webway portal 3 Ravagers 1 squad of aspect Warp Spiders (I think there is an Autarch here) Razorwing fighter w/dark lances and venom missiles 4 venoms w/ five warriors each 2 squads of three scatterbikes
I know he always starts a game with his four venoms on the field and everything else in reserve. He uses the raiders to deep strike without scatter next to a big vehicle threat and everything else comes on his board edge.
Haha great prediction. I played this game against him and it could have been a tie if I had thought to use my mawloc into combat on the last turn of the game. He made me go first and wouldn't even allow me to anti-sieze! (It's a fake mechanic that I came up with where you make the other person go first on a 1 lol)
Also FWIW they are also my Daemons now haha. It's the list I run, although I have been toying around with the D thirster and the khorne knight. All so solid.
Thanks!
In my Daemon army, I am running the D-thirster and the Khorne Knight. They make for a very good combination. Took them to the LVO and they did quite well. You guys will read about my LVO experiences in the near future. The trend now is to go with Chaos Knights, especially in the ITC format where they are legal. Even Nick is running a Chaos Knight in his list currently.
Yeah and the legacy of ruin on that baby...so hot. It warms my soul that Khorne is playable again. Definitely will be trying out more Fateweaver Be'Lakor and the D Thirster. Ironically, I initially strayed away from it because....it was too many points in the HQ slot
The CSM list has a few traits that will give the Draigostar some problems. It's got a number of units with no armor saves (Spawns, Daemons). It's also a MSU list, which is something that will potentially give your mini-Centstar problems....
Overall, I think Chaos will take it here if you play nice. However, if you resort to Daemon Summoning as well (and if you do it every turn), then your army will be able to take it.
Good post jy! Thank you for your analysis. Have an exalt!
Its a 2v2 1500 points a player, so 3000 a side. Teammates armies are considered allies of convenience with each other.
The mission is the maelstrom mission were you don't show your cards to your opponents. We use the vanilla GW decks for maelstrom missions. Hammer and anvil deployment.
My army eldar
pale court with an autarch with warp jump generator and melta, and three units of dire avengers.
Aspect shrine with 3*5 warpspiders
Aspect shrine 3*6 swooping hawks.
A night spinner
A skathach wraithknight with the hellstorm template guns and a single scatter laser
My allies army orks
warboss with lucky stick, and a weird boy.
3 trucks full of boys with nob and power klaw
a squigoth full of burna boys.
a battlewagon full of shoota boys
a gorkanuaght
Opponent one tau
some formation that gives twin linked when shooting at units on objectives. I think it is an etherial, 3 units of breachers, and a unit of pathfinders all in devilfish.
optimized stealth cadre with one unit of 3 ghost keels all with ion guns and two units of three stealth suits with burst cannons.
Opponent two space marines
Every unit is in a drop pod, except the assasin.
vulkan with a command squad. 4xflamers and an apothacary.
3 ten man tac squads with melta and combi melta.
librarian with auspex, and centurions.
An assassin. The one with a template attack, and can walk in from your opponents deployment edge.
I apologize, but due to being out of town (on vaca) and limited computer access, I won't be doing any matchup analysis until I get back on Friday.
However, if any of the more experienced players here want to take a shot at analyzing any of the matchups here, you have my blessings. Have fun and go for it!
This will be an interesting battle. You are bringing a more casual Tyranid list and he is bringing a more elite Space Wolf list. That's not necessarily a bad thing for you. In this battle, the tervigon is actually going to be very helpful. As an elitist army, the SW army is one of limited resources. He doesn't have very many objective holders other than his offensive units. You, on the other hand, can make it a challenging battle for him if your tervigon can spawn for multiple rounds. The more units he creates, the more trouble you opponent will have due to his limited resources.
Tips/Tactics:
He's got a few heavy hitters. Wolflord with TWC (or he may put him with the Fenrisian wolves), the Wulfen and the Imperial Knight can all do a lot of damage in Assault. Fortunately for you, have have quite a few tarpitting bodies. Here are the strategies you should employ:
1. Use your gribblies to screen out and/or tarpit his assault units. Preferably the Knight and either the TWC or the Wulfen (but don't try to tarpit both units at the same time with 1 unit of gribblies). Tie up 2 of his Assault units only. Leave either the TWC or Wulfen open so you can shoot them down. Keep at least a few models trailing and in range of your venomthrope to protect your gribblies.
2. Focus your shooting on 1 unit at a time. Between 2 flyrants (assuming they are dakka) and 2 dakkafexes, you've actually got a lot of anti-infantry firepower. Ignore the Knight. Your firepower can't kill him efficiently (for the Knight, just feed him the termagants if possible). Focus your firepower either on the TWC or the Wulfen, whichever is closer (most likely the TWC).
3. Advance with your units. DO NOT let him take control of the board. Meet him head on. Your gribblies should be in assault with his units no later than Turn 2. He would have a major advantage if he can control the board. Also, the sooner you can get your gribblies into combat to try to tarpit his units, the less pounding you will have to take from his quad mortars (they are nasty against hordes).
4. Quad-mortars are devastating against infantry/hordes. Try to get your gribblies into combat ASAP. Otherwise, you will be bleeding gribblies from his shooting. One tactic that he may employ is to hold back his assault units for a turn or so in order to try to thin out your hordes. Just keep that in mind. Ignore the mortars initially. They are not as big a threat to your army as his fast assault units are.
5. Sicaran Battle Tanks. Being AP4, they will shred your Shrikes and Crone (at least the Crone will be flying). Try to keep those units in area terrain or behind cover. You can ignore these units initially as well. They are not as big a threat to your army as his fast assault units are.
6. Stormwolf. Ignore. It is not as big a threat to your army as his fast assault units are.
7. Shrikes. Keep them in cover. Daisy-chain them back so that 1 model is in range of the venomthrope until they are ready to assault. They will die to whichever unit they assault. They can't hurt the Knight so only go after the Wulfen and TWC. Best-case scenario is to assault both your hormagants and the Shrikes into either the TWC or the Wulfen.
8. Carnifexes. Use them for their firepower. Then when his Knight gets close enough, assault it with both of your carnifexes. This is your best solution to the IK. Even their Hammer of Wrath will hurt the knight. Just make sure you screen them out so that his assault units cannot assault your fexes first.
9. FMC's (Flyrants + Crone) - assuming you are running dakkaflyrants, best to keep them in the air as harassment units. DO NOT land them unless its for objectives at the end of the game.
10. Tervigon. Keep spawning units. Use those units for screening purposes and to go after objectives. Screen out your tervigon until he stops spawning. Then, he becomes as expendable as any of the other units in your army.
11. Mawloc. You can use it to threaten his Wulfen or to threaten his backfield, depending on which you feel is more necessary.
12. Go 2nd. Your army has the resiliency to survive his initial firepower. Besides the last turn objective-grab for going 2nd, it is also better for him to advance first. That ways, your dakkafexes will almost certainly be in shooting range and you can potentially get the charge off with your hormagants and Shrikes against his TWC unit.
Prediction:
This matchup is almost a coin flip. Both armies are somewhat evenly matched. Your Tyranids can potentially win this if 1) you go 2nd and 2) if your tervigon doesn't crap out early. However, if either of those 2 conditions does not go your way, then I am calling this a Space Wolf victory.
ALEXisAWESOME wrote: As Dark Eldar could I just ask for some general advice for beating Gladius? I have enough Dark Eldar to jiggery-pokery with my own list but his list at 1850 is Normal Gladius (6 Tacs, 2 Assault and 2 Devs) + a Stormraven and 2 Stormtalons, all Razorbacks are totting Heavy Bolters and all Tac squads house a Meltagun.
I like to run a variation on Jimsolo's freakshow list, Heroes Path + Dark Artisan formation plus A CAD Dark Eldar army. I use Raiders instead of Venoms because I am fond of the 3+ jink save but I could switch to Venoms if you believe it'll help against all his Obj.Sec.
It just seems like he can out score me, out shoot me and I can't out combat him or Psy-Shriek him to death or make him run off the board. Pain Engines are relatively survivable with their 4+-re-roll1's FNP but against Grav Gun Devastators they are living on borrowed time. Perhaps I should invest more heavily into Coven? Get a few more Talsoi and run a Corpse Thief Claw to punish him for MSU?
Heroes Path formation:
Solitaire with Cegorarch's kiss
DeathJester
Shadowseer with Mask of Secrets Mastery level 2.
(Shadowseer throws all my dice at Shriek, which puts the opponent at -3 Leadership if within 12'' of both herself and the Pain Engines)
Dark Artisan formation:
Haemonculus with Scissorhands, Webway portal, Liquifier Gun and Sump.
Talosi with TL Liquifier + Heat Lance.
Chronus with Spirit Probe.
(Most durable Warlord I can buy, T7 4+ FNP re-rolling 1's. Good area denial. Deepstrike in and Flame a unit then act as area denial)
CAD Llhamaen in Venom with double cannons
2x10 Warriors with Splinter cannon's in Raiders with Dark lances, Night shields and Splinter racks
1 5 man warrior unit with Blaster inside doube cannon venom.
2x5 Scourges with 4 Haywire Blasters
1x3 Reavers with 1 Cluster Caltrops
2xDark Lance Ravager
(My Obj.Sec, everyone is mobile and has decent fire power. Has powerful AV but all that is tied to certain units and such is vulnerable to being counter striked)
I'm perhaps considering doing a switch about to include the Corpse theif Claw (5 Talosi, 1 unit, Scout, gains VP for every non-vehicle unit killed) by dropping the Dark Artisan and the Heroes Path formation but that unit is hard countered by D weapons and excess Grav. I have enough AV to knock out the first wave, but then when he fires his Heavy Bolters at my Ravagers they are forced to Jink or they just shred the Scourges, thus making me AV worth little and less.
I am just going to look at the battle from the perspective of your current list. If you want a simulation with another potential list (i.e. with the Corpsethief formation), then submit the new list to me again. Sorry, but I don't look at what-if scenarios, particularly if the army is not in my area of expertise. Here, I am looking at specific scenarios.
Your current list looks as if it has a lot of tricks. I have actually gone up against the Heroe's Path formation, but I don't have any experience with the Dark Artisan formation. I'm not sure how familiar your opponent is with your army, but if he's not, he's going to make some target priority mistakes and that could be the difference-maker here.
As I don't know what missions you normally play there in the UK, I am going to assume BRB Eternal War missions.
Tips/Tactics:
How you will play against his list depends on whether razorbacks or drop pods. If he plays primarily drop pods and a Denial strategy, then you'd want to go 2nd for the last turn objective-grab. In this case, you're going to get alpha-struck anyways so might as well get a chance to retaliate after his forces come in.
If he's playing mostly razorbacks, then I'd still attempt to go 2nd (in non-Kill Point missions) but only if there is enough BLOS (blocking-LOS) terrain for me to hide my units behind. Going 1st against Battle Company in an objectives mission is almost a guaranteed loss unless you are running an extreme-firepower army.
As with any mech army, the first priority is to de-mech them. Take out the transports first. This way, you can then use your anti-infantry and LD-based attacks. If he's running drop pods, you can ignore the drop pods initially and just go after the disembarked infantry.
Ignore his flyers. You can't kill them efficiently so don't bother. Rather, use your AT on all ground units first.
You've got plenty of infantry-killing firepower. Between Warriors with splinter racks, venoms, the reavers, the Webway Haemy, the Solitaire, LD-hijinks, and your MC's, he's going to lose any infantry unit that is not outside of your LOS.
Prediction:
While I have confidence in your ability to deal with infantry, I am not as confident in your AT, at least not when dealing with mech-spam. It appears that your scourges is your best source of AT. However, any knowledgeable general will know to try to take them out first. Once they are gone, you are going to have a much tougher time against his razors.
Moreover, while you are trying to take out his mobility, he will also be trying to do the same to you. For each of his transports that you destroy, he loses mainly mobility. For each of your transport that he destroys, not only do you lose mobility, but you also lose critical AT or anti-infantry firepower. That tends to hurt your army more than it hurts his. And while TL-heavy bolters aren't exactly great as AT, his flyers will tear apart your transports when they come in.
If the Space Marine player is familiar with your army (i.e. he's played against it before) and goes 2nd (unless Kill Points, in which case if he goes 1st), then the chances for a Space Marines victory is 75%. If he is unfamiliar with your army but is going 2nd (or 1st in KP missions), then his chances for a victory is only 55% due to mistakes on his part in target priority. If he is not familiar with your army and is going 1st, then the chances for a Deldar victory is 55%. In any case, he will have an inherent advantage against your army in any missions other than Kill Points.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Klowny wrote: First game between friends, both fairly new to the hobby
1000 points, kill team mission, half board with minimal terrain
1004 points (I asked him to set a limit that I would match, he set 1004)
Space wolf CAD
Rune priest,
Grey hunters bolt guns and chains swords
Blood claws bolt guns and chain swords
Venerable dreadnaught with hell frost cannon and power fist
Venerable dreadnaught with storm shield and thunder axe?
Terminators with stuff
Potentially TWC with hammers and shields (doubt it though)
Not sure what else
Go
I don't know what a Kill Team mission is. Please expand. How does it play? What are the win conditions?
Mission:
Primary: 6 objectives two in each deployment zone and 2 in no mans land. Worth 3 points each at the end of the game. Winner gets 16, draw 12, loss 8
Secondary: Maelstrom Max of 8 points
Tertiary: Kill up to 4 enemy characters for up to 4 points
SLW and LB in effect
Total of 30 possible points
My Army
Militarum Tempestus
Ground Assault Formation
Commissar
Command Squad with 4 Volleyguns
5 man Scion Squad with 2 volleyguns
5 man Scion Squad with 2 volleyguns
5 man Scion Squad with 2 plasma guns
3 Taurox Primes with Missile Launchers, twin linked autocannons and camo netting
1 Taurox Prime with Battle Cannon, twin linked auto cannon, and camo netting
Airborne Assault Formation
Commissar
Command Squad with 4 Plasma Guns
3x 5 man Scion Squads with 2 melta Guns
4 Valkyries with Multi rocket pods
Opponents List
War Convocation with Librarious Conclave
There were 2 units of Kataphrons with the Grav
Other than that I dont really remember but it made the orks hurt a lot.
I think the tempestus could work well here but I am curious what you think would happen.
Keep in mind that War Convo has about 700+ pts of free wargear. So it is essentially an 1850 army (yours) against a 2550+ army (War Convo). In order to beat it, you've got to have something extraordinary about your list. Sorry, but I just don't see it.
He can get Stealth/Shroud for 2 turns. That means he can have a 2+ cover in ruins against your alpha and beta-strikes. You need a way to Ignore Cover. Perhaps you can make 1 unit re-roll successful cover saves but that is not enough.
His shooting is pretty deadly. He can increase his BS by 1, 2 or 3 or he can twin-link certain units. In addition, many of his units can reduce your cover saves by -1. As soon as your units deepstrike in, they are going to die to his shooting.
His assault is often under-estimated but can be quite deadly. You take out the shooty unit and his assault will kill you. You take out the assault unit and his shooting will kill you. His units are also more resilient than yours, meaning he will kill off your units much faster than you will his.
There is a good chance that his Conclave will be White Scars for 1) Ignores Cover Relic and 2) Hit-&-Run for any unit they are attached to.
This will be a tough battle for your army.
Tips/Tactics:
You are running a mainly Null-deployment, Denial list. Make sure you keep at least one unit on the table, preferably hidden somewhere behind BLOS terrain.
Try to place objectives outside of terrain (especially ruins) to deny him 2+ cover. This may hurt you army as well, but let's face it, with -1 to your cover, your units will die in cover just as easily as out in the open.
Try to draw his assault units out in the open. Make them assault you out in the open. Then when they finish off your unit, you can shoot down his assault unit in the open.
Have your Tauroxes nearby objectives if possible. Thus, when his Kataphrons immobilize your transports with Grav (and they will), at least you will still be claiming the objective.
Ignore the Knight. He is just too tough to kill for your army. You can potentially kill him if you focus enough units against him, but then those units will most likely die the following turn and there's no guarantee that they knight will even die.
Your flyers may give him problems as his anti-air (AA) firepower isn't exactly great. However, he does have a few tools against flyers. Most likely his Warlord will have a way to control the outcome of Mysterious objectives (either by re-rolling it or by being able to just pick 1, I forget exactly). One of his units has Skyfire. Grav Kataphrons with Prescience from a Libby is actually pretty good against flyers. Imperial Knight may have limited Skyfire (it has the option for a Skyfire secondary gun and he gets it for free). Basically, you flyers aren't 100% safe but at least they will live longer than your troops on the ground.
Try to focus down on 1 unit at a time. Don't spread out your firepower too much. For example, if 3 of your anti-infantry unit comes in, don't fire at 3 different targets. Instead, focus on 1 target until it is killed or basically rendered impotent.
Prediction:
This will be a tough, tough battle for your army. Your chances for a victory is slim. He's got excellent resiliency compared to yours. He will win the war of attrition against your army (with an extra 700+ pts of free wargear, that's only natural). He's got much, much better board control than your army. As you will be playing a Denial-strategy, he should get the early lead on the Maelstrom objectives and from there, it's going to be really hard for you to come back. Barring extreme luck or really bad play from your opponent, I really can't see your Tempestus beating his War Convo.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Swampmist wrote: Have a list, not sure what my opponent will have. Probably going to end up being 30k vs 40kBA. Either Straight Purge or a roll on the Eternal War table.
My Army:
30k Iron Warriors, 3000 points
Siege Breaker w/ Cataphractii Armor and a Chainfist
ML2 Librarian w/ Cataphractii Armor
2 15-man Legion Tactical Marines, Sarge w/ Artificer Armor
5 Recon Marines w/ Recon Armor, Sniper Rifles, Nuncio-vox
10 Legion Veterans w/ Sniper, two suspensor-web heavy bolters with Shrapnel Bolts (AP5 and pinning)
- in a Rhino w/ HB with Shrapnel Bolts and Dozer Blades
5 Legion Terminators w/ Heavy Flamer and 5x Power Fist
6 Tyrant Siege Terminators (Cataphractii Armor, 6x Cyclone Missle Launcher, Omni-scope on Sergeant.) w/ Combi Melta on Sergeant.
2x Legion Apothecaries w/ Artificer Armor, with the tacticals
Legion Dreadnaught w/ Multi Melta + Dreadnaught CC Weapon with underslung Melta gun. Has Ceramite Plating.
-In a Dreadnaught DropPod.
3 Legion Outriders w/ 3 Twin-Linked Melta Guns
5 Iron Havoc Support Marines (Tank Hunter, -1 to Cover Saves) w/5 Missile Launchers
The Primarch Perturabo w/ ForgeBreaker
Expected match-up- BA vehicle spam with a LR Redeemer and a ton of jump marines.
Sorry, but I don't know enough about how 30K units work. Also, your opponent's list is too general. I need more information with regards to it to make a prediction.
Ya I would probably lose to the war convocation. I did beat a drop pod and knight list today though. The tauroxes annihilated the imperial knight in two turns with 2 tauroxes and one melta squad. The knight crusader did a grand total of zero damage.
ok so....
murder horde demonic incursion
K herald less reward, juggernaut, exalted locus
7 bloodcrushers champion with lesser reward
6x5 hounds
8 hounds
D thirster 2 greater rewards
karanak
opponent list
monobikes white scars with korsarro kan and GM about 6/7x5 bikes with meltas and GM on bike with EW save4+ power fist
the scenario is dawn of war emperor will.
Tau Hunter Contingent Hunter Cadre: HQ: Commander: 2x Missile Pod, Drone Controller, Target Lock, Iridium Suit, 2x Marker Drone Cadre Fireblade Elites: Crisis Suit Team: 1 suit, 2x Fusion Blaster Crisis Suit Team: 2 suits, 2x Plasma Rifle and Target Lock on each, 3x Gun Drone Troops: Breacher Team: 10 men, Shas'ui upgrade, Guardian Drone, dedicated Devilfish w/Sensor Spines Kroot Carnivore Squad: 12 men, Sniper Rounds Strike Team: 19 men, DS8 Tactical Turret w/SMS Fast Attack: Drone Squadron: 4 Marker Drones Pathfinder Team: 4 men, 3x Rail Rifle Pathfinder Team: 6 men Heavy Support: KV128 Stormsurge: Pulse Driver Cannon, TL Frag Projector, Shield Generator, Early Warning Override, Advanced Targeting System Optimized Stealth Cadre: XV95 Ghostkeel: 1 suit, Cyclic Ion Raker, TL Fusion Blaster, Early Warning Override, Velocity Tracker Stealth Team: 3 suits, Shas'vre upgrade, Fusion on Shas'vre, Markerlight and Target Lock on Shas'vre Stealth Team: 3 suits, Shas'vre upgrade, Fusion on Shas'vre, Markerlight and Target Lock on Shas'vre
Opponent's list:
Spoiler:
Eldar Combined Arms Detachment HQ: Farseer w/several upgrades, including the one that lets you reroll psychic tests, on foot (my opponent usually rolls on Runes of Fate) Elites: 5 man unit of Fire Dragons in Wave Serpent Troops: Guardian Defenders: 20 men, 2 or 3 Bright Lances 2 or 3 3-man units of Scatbikes Fast Attack: 2 8-man units of Warp Spiders 3-vehicle squadron of Hornets with S8 cannons Heavy Support: 2-vehicle squadron of Fire Prisms Lord of War: Wraithknight with D-cannons and Scatter Laser
Mission: Another mission that I am not sure where it comes from or whether it is unique to us. Primary objectives are two Meat Grinder objectives near the center of the board (Hammer and Anvil deployment), each worth 2 VP at the beginning of a player's turn if they control it. Other objectives are two Crusader objectives in each player's deployment zone (4 total), near the corners of the board, that are worth 2 or 3 points to the player that controls them at the end of the game. Secondary objectives are the usual First Blood, Slay the Warlord, and Linebreaker. I faced this list in a tournament a couple of months ago, but with my Daemonkin instead of Tau, and I got absolutely crushed. We have more than one Eldar player in my local meta, so I thought I would seek your sage advice on how my Tau might prevail against them.
Orks vs Necrons, 2000 points maelstrom (the mission where the number of objectives held = how many you draw). This battle happened so I want to see how close you are at predicting the outcome and what occurred.
Orks 2000 points
Spoiler:
CAD Lucky Stikk Mega Armored Warboss (Warlord, rolled night fighting trait)
19 Shoota boyz + PK Nob
17 Slugga boyz + PK Nob (Warboss in this unit)
5 Meganobz, one has killsaws
10 Flash Gitz
11 Tankbustas + Busta Nob, 2 bomb squigs
Dakkajet with 3x supa shootas
Dakkajet with 3x supa shootas
Blitz Brigade (all have rams)
Battlewagon with rokkit launcha (boyz)
Battlewagon with rokkit launcha (boyz)
Battlewagon with killkannon (gitz)
Battlewagon with killkannon (meganobz)
Battlewagon with killkannon (bustas)
Necrons 2000 points
Spoiler:
CAD Catacomb Command Barge (Warlord)
Catacomb Command Barge
Triarch Stalker
3 Tomb Blades with Gauss
10 Warriors in Ghost Ark
10 Warriors in Ghost Ark
10 Warriors in Ghost Ark
Night Scythe
Night Scythe
3 Tomb Blades with Gauss
Doomsday Ark
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge
Ill even give you an assist with the Necrons winning the roll off and going 1st, Orks did not sieze, Dawn of War deployment, lots of terrain (50% covered), fair amount of LoS blocking.
Warpflame host
2x16 horrors, one iridescent in the same unit the herald joins
2x12 horrors, one with icon only, one with icon+instrument
Unit of 5 exalted flamers (the target of endurance)
Herald of tzeentch, oracular dais, lvl 3, Locus of conjuration
Dp of tzeentch, lvl 3, wings + armour, 2 greater rewards, one lesser, paradox (rolling on biomancy for endurance)
Lord of change, lvl3, 2 greater rewards one lesser, impossible robes
Forgehost:
3 soul grinders of tzeentch, one with torrent two with warp gaze
Opponents list:
Wraith knight with ghost glaive, scattersheild
2×3 scatterbikes
Eldrad
Fire dragons+ exarch with firepike, falcon
Wraith guard, scythes, serpent
Rangers
Dark reapers, str8 missiles
Dire avengers x 10, exarch, footslogging
Vyper
Hemlock wraith fighter (the one with a heavy d scythe)
I believe I missed a few upgrades in my opponents list but that's the gist anyways. Non ITC, standard maelstrom mission (both players get max 3 objectives each turn) both lists are 2000 I believe.
I should mention that my list isn't optimal, I'm trying to see how feasible it will be to use exalted flamers. The plan is to use the dais to autopass a unit of horrors with instrument and icon in, deep striking off the other icon accurately and using the instrument to chain in the flamers within range of endurance and an enemy unit. My biggest worry is by far, that wraith knight. I don't know if my list can handle him alone, even without all the shooting the list has.
I'll probably be using the LOC as my warlord, and using him as a gunboat unless he rolls the D power straight away and precognition, then he'll be short range shooting+ charging units. The daemon prince will be babysitting the exalted flamers and trying to survive while taking some shots if he gets line of sight. Will probably keep him gliding after turn 1 to allow him to countercharge if my squishy units get in trouble.
The soul grinders seem like just a points sink really, but you'll let me know I'm sure!
Orks with trukks, 3 squads of 6 tankbustas some bikes battlewagons and bullyboyz and 5 kustom mega kannonz with bikerboss with stikk and painboy on bike(2k) 's necrons with at least 12 wraiths, the necron bikes, their jump troops, 2 transport flyers with cryptek and 2 squads of immortals, 20 flayed ones and a ctan.
So the Marines have 2 main hammer units - the mini-Centstar and the Smashf*cker Command Squad. One shoots you to death. The other assaults. He's also got a 3rd threat that's much easier to kill (compared to the other 2) - his Dreadknight. What he doesn't have, however, is a way to ignore cover reliably unless he gets lucky with his psykers. It's a tough army to play against, but it isn't impossible to beat. IMO, your Necrons have the tools to do so.
Tips/Tactics:
Focus on killing off his Support units and his mobility. It takes too much firepower to deal with Centstar or the Command Squad so ignore those initially (unless you've got no other targets). Focus on the following units: scout bikers, Dreadknight, scouts, strikers (and in that order if possible). When you've dealt with those units, then you can deal with his 2 stars. Rule of thumb with regards to Target Priority: 1) kill off the mobile non-star units first (scout bikers and dreadknight) and then 2) kill off the easier-to-kill units (strikers, scouts).
Spread out your army. Don't bunch them up to give his Command squad multiple units to assault. Turbo-boost your tomb blades to the 2 opposite corners from your deployment zones. Infiltrate (or Outflank) your flayed ones separately. Deepstrike the deathmarks in different quadrants. The trick is to make his Command squad have to travel in order to assault your units. His army has limited resources. Your goal with positioning is to make him waste some of those resources by having to travel further than normal. It's all about positioning.
Unless your opponent gets Perfect Timing, position your vulnerable units in terrain (ruins). When you can, use Zandrekh to give you Stealth/Move Through Cover (Ruins). This will make your units highly survivable to his shooting. Also, if possible, place the objectives near or in ruins so you can take advantage of cover.
Your army is very resilient. Do not be overly concerned about his assault. If you need to, feed his Command squad a unit to assault if they get too close. If your Warlord is in that unit, then switch to the Fearless Warlord Trait. You can tie them up pretty good if you keep feeding his star units to assault. Then when possible, counter-assault his Command squad with your Flayed Ones or Lychguards. They can and will do a number on his Command squad. After you've killed his Support units, then target the Command squad next. They are easier to kill than the Centstar, but it is actually their mobility that makes them slightly more dangerous than the Centstar.
Prediction:
In Kill Points, Marines have the advantage. They have fewer VP's and 2 tough to kill mini-stars.
In Tactical Objectives, your Necrons have the advantage with more units and ultra-high resiliency.
In the Maelstrom objectives, assuming they are about even for both parties, I'd give the nod to your Necrons because, once again, I think your army plays to the objectives slightly better than your opponents.
Bottom line, I think Necrons have the resiliency to outlast Marine offense. Winner winner of the chicken dinner - Necrons. Bonne chance!
Dark Eldar/Eldar
(dont know the exact compoisition)
2 Raiders with Aspect Fire Dragons + an archon w/webway portal
3 Ravagers
1 squad of aspect Warp Spiders (I think there is an Autarch here)
Razorwing fighter w/dark lances and venom missiles
4 venoms w/ five warriors each
2 squads of three scatterbikes
I know he always starts a game with his four venoms on the field and everything else in reserve. He uses the raiders to deep strike without scatter next to a big vehicle threat and everything else comes on his board edge.
Day of the Necrons. More Necrons and more Dark Eldar as well! Let's get too it.
Interesting choice for a Warlord, the Overlord. Most competitive Necron players take Zandrekh, and he would have been very helpful to your army in this case. Stealth in Ruins would have benefitted your army immensely.
Tips/Tactics:
Your opponent has the better chance for First Blood in this army with his deepstriking Fire Dragons in raiders. Not much you can really do about that. You really want to go 2nd in this matchup if it is an Objectives game.
This is going to be a game of board control. You don't have the range to engage him in a ranged firefight. However, you do have the resiliency to outlast his units in survivability. Position your units near the objectives, especially the ghost ark (as it will most definitely die on the turn his Fire Dragon comes in, but at least the troops in there will spill out onto the objectives).
Here's a nasty, nasty trick for when your opponent does that. Have your ghost ark and your Triarch Stalkers near the center of your forces. After your opponent lands and takes out your ghost ark and potentially the Triarch Stalkers, what you want to do next turn is to surround those 2 raiders. Turbo-boost your tomb blades around them if you have to. Then glance them to death. As long as the raiders do not explode (and they won't if they get glanced to death), then the fire dragons and archons inside will die as well due to being unable to disembark. So now he's traded 2 of your units for 6 of his!
You don't have much to deal with his Razorwing, but who cares. It is really only dangerous against your vehicles or if your elite guys are out in the open. 1) I don't expect your vehicles to live past the Fire Dragons and 2) keep your elite units (like the Triarch Praetorians) in or around cover.
Go after his highly-mobile scoring units first (the Jetbikes and venoms). They should be your target priorities.
If he is smart, he will go after your tomb blades first. Make sure you hide them behind BLOS if there is any but DO NOT reserve them. Otherwise, you won't be able to do the trick above.
Prediction:
Whoever goes 1st in an Objectives mission will most likely take this game. DE/Eldar has good firepower and range, but IMO your resiliency is good enough for your units to survive his firepower. It is almost a wash in this regards, though I give your Necrons the slight edge here. Bottom line, if he goes 2nd, he has enough speed to contest all your objectives. I'd say Eldar has a 75% chance for a victory if he goes 2nd and your Necrons have a 66% chance for a victory if you go 2nd.
Cieged wrote: I like seeing this kind of positive community interaction. Thanks for opening it up and for the battle reports both!
cranect wrote: Ya I would probably lose to the war convocation. I did beat a drop pod and knight list today though. The tauroxes annihilated the imperial knight in two turns with 2 tauroxes and one melta squad. The knight crusader did a grand total of zero damage.
One of the major differences between War Convo and a drop pod/Knight list is that the War Convo has highly distributed threats. Now what does that mean? Well, a drop pod comes in and the tact squad inside shoots at a unit. They maybe kill a couple of models or hurt a tank but overall, their threat level really isn't very high. Basically, you can almost ignore them to go after more dangerous units like the Knight. However, with War Convo, each unit is a very real and dangerous threat. Many of their units have the potential to wipe out a basic enemy unit. So while you go after the Knight in a War Convo list, the rest of the army can still seriously hurt your army. That's what makes War Convo so hard to play against. Most armies have maybe a couple of dangerous units and the rest is medium to low threats. In War Convo, it is the opposite. There is a couple of medium to low threats but the rest of the army is highly dangerous. The distribution of the threats in a War Convo list is much, much higher than in regular lists.
godardc wrote: jY2, that's a nice thread, you are doing a lot pof happy guys here^^
You should hire other people and start you firm, there is so much demand !
Haha....haven't you heard? Things on the interwebz need to be free or you've got to be highly attractive. Well, I don't think I'd look good in a bikini so I'll just offer up free advice.
Other people are welcome to give advice and tactical analysis on matchups here if they want to try their hands out on this.
Are other people welcome to try and look good in a bikini? I know it's not my strong suit, but since it's international women's day and all, I just feel like it's something we should encourage
Missions: Maelstorm + Eternal war combined. 3 cards each turn flat, can only score 2 cards each turn. (Eternal war give extra points, for example emperor's will is wroth pointsx2) Impossible cards are redrawn
My Army:
Clan Raukaan - CAD Captain, bike, fist, gorgons chain (3+fnp), artificer, lightning claw
Chaplain, bike
3 bikes
3 bikes
5 Command Squad, bikes, 4 stormshield, apothecary, powerfist (apoth and BA priest so deathstar can split)
Quad Mortar x2 (the str8 tank hunter and str5 blast thingy)
Quad Mortar
Quad Mortar
Land Speeder Storm, multimelta (BA scouts go in this and outflank)
BA Allied
Sanguinary Priest, bike, fist, claw
5 Scouts, close combat
Ravenwing Strike Force
Sammael
Darkshroud (Give Deathstar 2+ jink or/and attack bikes)
Attack bike MM (will often outflank)
Attack bike MM (will often outflank)
Attack bike MM (will often outflank)
Inquisition
Inqusitor, rad grenades, 2 servo skulls 46 (goes in deathstar if playing vs close combat armies)
Psyker, henchman 18 (Prescience the mortars)
Psyker, henchman 18 (Prescience the mortars)
1648 points
Opponent's Army:
Standard White Scar gladius with hunters eye, rhino spam. Grav cannon devs and some tacticals (7 grav-cannon total)
Worried white scar will outflank whole army + obsec spam
Its a 2v2 1500 points a player, so 3000 a side. Teammates armies are considered allies of convenience with each other.
The mission is the maelstrom mission were you don't show your cards to your opponents. We use the vanilla GW decks for maelstrom missions. Hammer and anvil deployment.
My army eldar
pale court with an autarch with warp jump generator and melta, and three units of dire avengers.
Aspect shrine with 3*5 warpspiders
Aspect shrine 3*6 swooping hawks.
A night spinner
A skathach wraithknight with the hellstorm template guns and a single scatter laser
My allies army orks
warboss with lucky stick, and a weird boy.
3 trucks full of boys with nob and power klaw
a squigoth full of burna boys.
a battlewagon full of shoota boys
a gorkanuaght
Opponent one tau
some formation that gives twin linked when shooting at units on objectives. I think it is an etherial, 3 units of breachers, and a unit of pathfinders all in devilfish.
optimized stealth cadre with one unit of 3 ghost keels all with ion guns and two units of three stealth suits with burst cannons.
Opponent two space marines
Every unit is in a drop pod, except the assasin.
vulkan with a command squad. 4xflamers and an apothacary.
3 ten man tac squads with melta and combi melta.
librarian with auspex, and centurions.
An assassin. The one with a template attack, and can walk in from your opponents deployment edge.
Pure Maelstrom, hmmm. Your team has a good combination of shootiness (Eldar) and board control (Orks, Wraithknight). You also have good mobility, which is one of the most important aspects of a pure Maelstrom game.
Btw, when I refer to you or your, I mean you and your partner or your team.
Tips/Tactics:
Taking out those AV12 Devilfish will be troublesome for your army but not impossible. Kill off those marines when they come in. Your army will be great at that, especially with the Forgeworld Wraithknight. Then deal with the Tau later. Your main goal here is board control and to do that, you're going to have to clear the marines off of the objectives. Don't worry too much about the Tau initially. They will stay away due to your Ork allies. Keep the pressure on your opponents by playing aggressively against them.
Centurions are going to hurt your Wraithknight. There's just no getting around that, unless you go 2nd and deepstrike in your WK instead (and he happens to come in after the Centurions). Just make sure you have enough to take out his centurions afterwards. Otherwise, they are going to start immobilizing your Ork transports.
Spread out your guys against his Assassins template. Bait him into targeting 1 of your units of spiders by bunching them up. Then flickerjump away if he falls for it. Same goes for the flamer Command squad. However, this will only work if your opponents are not too familiar with warp spiders, but you don't really lose anything by trying.
Overall, play aggressively. You want to make it hard for your opponent to advance towards the objectives.
Prediction:
You will clear off his Marines on the objectives. Your opponents will take out your Ork partner because in their eyes, he will be the bigger "threat". So both Marines and Orks will get deleted first. Sorry, but they will be the sacrificial goats. It will end up to being a matchup between Eldar and Tau and with your superior mobility and better board control, your Space Elves will have the advantage.
cranect wrote: Ya I would probably lose to the war convocation. I did beat a drop pod and knight list today though. The tauroxes annihilated the imperial knight in two turns with 2 tauroxes and one melta squad. The knight crusader did a grand total of zero damage.
One of the major differences between War Convo and a drop pod/Knight list is that the War Convo has highly distributed threats. Now what does that mean? Well, a drop pod comes in and the tact squad inside shoots at a unit. They maybe kill a couple of models or hurt a tank but overall, their threat level really isn't very high. Basically, you can almost ignore them to go after more dangerous units like the Knight. However, with War Convo, each unit is a very real and dangerous threat. Many of their units have the potential to wipe out a basic enemy unit. So while you go after the Knight in a War Convo list, the rest of the army can still seriously hurt your army. That's what makes War Convo so hard to play against. Most armies have maybe a couple of dangerous units and the rest is medium to low threats. In War Convo, it is the opposite. There is a couple of medium to low threats but the rest of the army is highly dangerous. The distribution of the threats in a War Convo list is much, much higher than in regular lists.
Ya I expect I would lose very handily I was just commenting on how the tauroxes did a lot more damage than I would have thought. Even against 3 demon armies they did pretty well. The unit surprised me greatly. Ya with shrouded 2 turns I'd have to find a way to not be shot up which would be difficult to say the least. The list is normally used in the tournaments as well as a gladius so I'm just brainstorming how to play against them. After seeing the tauroxes do their thing I can safely say I am not as worried about the gladius since the tauroxes can kill/greatly injure one each every turn they survive. Ya I played the war convocation once and it obliterated the dread mob. He didn't need to use shrouded twice or whatever because there wasn't much shooting and so he focused on damage... The grab hurt a lot. Managed to kill the knight and a few other units though surprisingly.
I don't know what a Kill Team mission is. Please expand. How does it play? What are the win conditions?
Sorry, purge the alien, dawn of war setup.
Necrons sure are popular here. Either that or they are one of the armies most people have trouble with.
In any case, they are notorious for their durability and you are playing a Purge game.
Tips/Tactics:
Your opponent has 1 main threat - his TWC. The other wolves aren't bad themselves, but they won't inflict nearly as much damage as the TWC will. In this case, you will have to deal with them with a combination of firepower (and you have a lot!) and then assault by your wraiths + D-lord.
I'm not sure whether his troops and dread will be in drop pods but if they are, then you will have to deal with them as well. Glance his dread to death and then focus on 1 unit of infantry at a time with shooting, followed by assault to finish them off. If they (troops + walker) are walking, then you can ignore them initially in order to deal with his TWC. That makes it much easier for your army to deal with. Otherwise, it becomes much tougher if you've got to deal with the majority of his army all at the same time.
Alternatively, you can tarpit his troops with your scarabs after building them (the scarabs) up. This allows you to focus on his TWC (or dread if it was in a drop pod).
Naturally, it goes without saying, protect your spider. DO NOT let your opponent get off the easy assault against it with the TWC or the dreadnought. However, use your spider (and scarabs) to threaten any Space Wolf infantry within the vicinity.
Terminators can be killed with massed firepower. However, between the terminators and the TWC, focus on the TWC first and just move away from the termies. Do not feed his Terminators with your scarabs as their Powerfists will insta-kill your scarabs.
Your mini-wraithstar is your counter-attack deterrent. It is probably the most dangerous unit to your opponent. However, be careful not to get them stuck and tarpitted in combat against the troops. Use the scarabs for those. What you want your wraithstar in combat with is his more elite units. Do not assault his troops with your wraithstar unless you stand a good chance of taking them out in no more than 2 units of combat.
Target priority should be: TWC, dreadnought or terminators, then troops. Focus on his biggest threats early. If you don't then they will rampage across your army and then you won't have the firepower to do so later. Focus on 1 unit at a time if possible.
Prediction:
This game is almost a coin-flip. How well you do will depend on how fast you can take out his TWC. Take them out early and you've got the game. Don't and you may well end up losing. Since you didn't specify that your opponent will be running drop pods, I am going to assume that he isn't (makes sense if he wants to spam the troops). In which case, you will have time to focus on his TWC. In doing so, your Necrons will also win the game, but it will be a close one.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
nachai-l wrote: Really nice review an prediction XD
I am interested, can you do mine too?
=======================
900 points Malestorm
My army: Ravengaurds
Spoiler:
My opponent
Spoiler:
Ultramarines: CAD
Chapter Master (The Burning Blade, The Shield Eternal, Artificer Armor, Jump Pack)
Assault Squad (Jumpacks)
Tactical Squad 1
Tactical Squad 2 (Flamer)
Droppods
----------------------------------------
Ultramarines: Firespear Strike Force
Honestly, I don't really get your list. The Conclave isn't really that great in a non-deathstar build and if you attach your librarians to any of the Ravenguard units, both of their Chapter Tactics won't be usable due to being different Chapters. I suppose you can put the Lvl 2 Libby with the Devastators for Prescience.
Tips/Tactics:
Go for Prescience for your Lvl 2 Librarian. For the other 2 libbies, go for Telepathy and either Shroud or Invisibility with Psychic Shriek. You need to start heading towards the objectives early as you don't have very good mobility (compared to your opponent's). Advance your units together, leaving your devastators on your home objective. Otherwise, he can just pick off your isolated units without fear of a counter-offensive. Keep 1 unit near your devastators as "bodyguards" (probably your Scouts).
Try to focus on 1 unit at a time. That unit will probably be his assault marines w/Chapter Master as he needs to get close to your guys to use his Burning Blade.
Prediction:
In Maelstrom missions, mobility is paramount. Unfortunately, your opponent has the advantage here. He's got better mobility with more jump pack units (assault squad and Chapter Master) than you. He's also got drop pods which can deliver him faster to the objectives than yours.
Your predictions where pretty spot on. The wraith knight died to centurions. I had hoped that the autarch would have helped keep him off the board but alas it did not. We never killed a single devilish. The orks and space marines died in droves. Our opponents surrendered when they drew there 4th turn objectives and realized the score was 15-5.
Some things nobody saw coming though.
Such as the tau player just moving everything flat out towards us first turn killing nothing, and leaving all the objectives on there side untouched. Then we pulled the hold every objective card on the turn all 3 of my swooping hawks came in so that was like 5 points right there.
The assassin walking on flaming just enough boys to have the war bosses squad take morale. Which it failed, but it got a reroll from his warlord trait. Which it failed. Good thing for Mob rule. He rolled a one. Good thing for boss poles. He rolls another one. He then gets a good solid 10 inch run right off the table. This is the third game in a row I've played with this guy where his war boss runs away before he ever gets into combat. I think this warboss is actually three grots riding on each others shoulders in a suit.
6 Points based Objectives (1 1 2 2 3 3)
BRB mix (Eternal War, Maelstrom of War, 3 Tactical Objective cards each turn with 2 scoring maximum, may discard 1 card each turn)
Kill points
Tau Empire (me)
Heavy Retribution Cadre (Monsoon of Destruction, Optimum Fire Position) Stormsurge [Early Warning Override, Pulse Blastcannon, Shield Generator, Twin-linked Airbursting Fragmentation Projector, Warlord]
Stormsurge [Early Warning Override, Pulse Blastcannon, Shield Generator, Twin-linked Airbursting Fragmentation Projector]
Ghostkeel [Cyclic Ion Raker, Twin-linked Fusion Blaster] (Fire Team, EWS, Supporting Fire) Ghostkeel [Cyclic Ion Raker, Early Warning Override, Target Lock, Twin-linked Fusion Blaster] (Fire Team, EWS, Supporting Fire) Ghostkeel [Cyclic Ion Raker, Early Warning Override, Target Lock, Twin-linked Fusion Blaster] (Fire Team, EWS, Supporting Fire)
blackmage wrote: ok so....
murder horde demonic incursion
K herald less reward, juggernaut, exalted locus
7 bloodcrushers champion with lesser reward
6x5 hounds
8 hounds
D thirster 2 greater rewards
karanak
opponent list
monobikes white scars with korsarro kan and GM about 6/7x5 bikes with meltas and GM on bike with EW save4+ power fist
the scenario is dawn of war emperor will.
Ah, I've been playing the Murderhorde lately. So much blood and so much fun!
This looks like it would be a fun match. Is the GM a Chapter Master with the 2+ and Shield Eternal? I'm not sure what GM is so I will assume he is (though the 4+ confuses me).
Tips/Tactics:
It's going to be hard to catch these guys. What they will be doing is to be playing the keep-away game, at least from your Thirster and your deathstar. You need to trap them, but be careful. They will shoot and then assault your MSU dog units and then Hit-&-Run away.
Whatever you do, you NEED to go 2nd in this game, especially since his army is ObSec and yours is not.
When placing objectives, if he places first, then place yours directly across from his. This makes it much easier for you to threaten both objectives and to keep him away.
You'll be chasing his bikers all game, but when it comes down to Turn 4, make sure your Thirster or deathstar are near the objectives. On Turn 5, he will have to turbo-boost towards the objective and then you can take him out there (assuming you went 2nd).
On Turn 4, screen out the objectives so that he cannot turbo-boost to claim/contest.
Take advantage of the short range of his meltas. He will focus on 1 unit at a time so stagger your guys back instead of forming a wall when you go after him. What you want to do is this. 1st unit of bikers shoot and kills 1-2 dogs. Now the 2nd unit of bikes, when they shoot, their meltaguns will be out of range due to you removing the closest models from the previous unit's shooting.
Either send all your forces at his guys or play the denial game. Do not just send 1 or 2 units towards his guys at a time. This just gives him time to shoot down the units you send and then redo it all over again.
Prediction:
It's as simple as this. You've both got good mobility. In that case, it's a matter of whoever goes 2nd will win in a straight-up Emperor's Will mission.
Tau Hunter Contingent
Hunter Cadre:
HQ:
Commander: 2x Missile Pod, Drone Controller, Target Lock, Iridium Suit, 2x Marker Drone
Cadre Fireblade
Elites:
Crisis Suit Team: 1 suit, 2x Fusion Blaster
Crisis Suit Team: 2 suits, 2x Plasma Rifle and Target Lock on each, 3x Gun Drone
Troops:
Breacher Team: 10 men, Shas'ui upgrade, Guardian Drone, dedicated Devilfish w/Sensor Spines
Kroot Carnivore Squad: 12 men, Sniper Rounds
Strike Team: 19 men, DS8 Tactical Turret w/SMS Fast Attack:
Drone Squadron: 4 Marker Drones
Pathfinder Team: 4 men, 3x Rail Rifle
Pathfinder Team: 6 men
Heavy Support:
KV128 Stormsurge: Pulse Driver Cannon, TL Frag Projector, Shield Generator, Early Warning Override, Advanced Targeting System
Optimized Stealth Cadre:
XV95 Ghostkeel: 1 suit, Cyclic Ion Raker, TL Fusion Blaster, Early Warning Override, Velocity Tracker
Stealth Team: 3 suits, Shas'vre upgrade, Fusion on Shas'vre, Markerlight and Target Lock on Shas'vre
Stealth Team: 3 suits, Shas'vre upgrade, Fusion on Shas'vre, Markerlight and Target Lock on Shas'vre
Opponent's list:
Spoiler:
Eldar Combined Arms Detachment
HQ:
Farseer w/several upgrades, including the one that lets you reroll psychic tests, on foot (my opponent usually rolls on Runes of Fate)
Elites:
5 man unit of Fire Dragons in Wave Serpent
Troops:
Guardian Defenders: 20 men, 2 or 3 Bright Lances
2 or 3 3-man units of Scatbikes
Fast Attack:
2 8-man units of Warp Spiders
3-vehicle squadron of Hornets with S8 cannons
Heavy Support:
2-vehicle squadron of Fire Prisms
Lord of War:
Wraithknight with D-cannons and Scatter Laser
Mission: Another mission that I am not sure where it comes from or whether it is unique to us. Primary objectives are two Meat Grinder objectives near the center of the board (Hammer and Anvil deployment), each worth 2 VP at the beginning of a player's turn if they control it. Other objectives are two Crusader objectives in each player's deployment zone (4 total), near the corners of the board, that are worth 2 or 3 points to the player that controls them at the end of the game. Secondary objectives are the usual First Blood, Slay the Warlord, and Linebreaker.
I faced this list in a tournament a couple of months ago, but with my Daemonkin instead of Tau, and I got absolutely crushed. We have more than one Eldar player in my local meta, so I thought I would seek your sage advice on how my Tau might prevail against them.
Tips/Tactics:
You absolutely must not let him go 2nd in this mission. Objectives + Eldar speed = Windar! Don't worry about your alpha-strike. With good deployment and decent terrain, an Eldar army can minimize the damage anyways. Rather, let him come to you and then shoot the crap out of him.
Target Priority goes like this. 1) Take out his mobility. 2) Take out the easier-to-kill units first. Thus, highest priorities are the units who are easy to kill and really fast. Go after the Scatbikes whenever you have the opportunity. That means deepstriking suits, both crisis and/or stealth teams. If his spiders are NOT near BLOS (blocking-LOS) terrain, then you can go after them as well. Otherwise, they'll just jump behind terrain (hopefully, you guys aren't playing the spiders with unlimited Flickerjumps).
Use your Ghostkeel to f*ck up....I mean, to deal with his Hornets or Wave Serpent (I'd prioritize the Hornets over the WS).
Don't worry too much about the WK, at least not initially. When he gets closer, then your Stormsurge and your Strike Team can deal with him.
IMO, the spiders will be the biggest pain-in-the-a$$. Just let them come closer to you and then light them up with your strikers and Stormsurge. You can also go after them with your Breachers, but they will most likely jump out of range of their (breacher's) most dangerous shooting.
One of the most important thing is this. DO NOT play like a gunline. If you do, then you are conceding 2/3 of the objectives to your opponent (his objectives and the middle objectives). You should be advancing while he is advancing. Do it on the flanks because his WK is most likely going to move towards the middle (or wherever your SS is, because his WK will go after your SS). Advance your devilfish on 1 flank and perhaps your SS on the other. Deepstrike your Ghostkell for better shots against his vehicles. DS your suits to take out his fast but weak jetbike troops. It's a good sacrifice if you can take them out.
BTW, once you take out his WK, start advancing your SS aggressively towards the objectives.
Prediction:
Eldar has a major advantage in this game. They are playing an objectives mission with a much faster army. Moreover, they have better board control due to the Wraithknight. If Eldar goes 2nd, then your chances of winning this game is low, perhaps only 25%. If your Tau goes 2nd, and you manage to kill off his mobile scatbikes, Hornets and warp spiders, then your chances for a victory is good, perhaps 66%.
Sorry for the lack of detail in the second army but I hope calling out the formations should help
Fortunately I also play Necrons and so am very familiar with them. That's all the info I need on the Crons to be able to come up with a gameplan for them.
So once again, it's Eldar fire vs Necron resiliency.
Tips/Tactics:
Absolutely MUST go 2nd and it becomes a rather easy game for you. Go 1st if you want a challenge.
Your army has got a lot of firepower and you outrange your opponent. Just keep on shooting with your bikes until something drops and then repeat. Go after his Spider first if it exposes itself.
He will deepstrike his Destroyers. When they come in, focus on 1 unit at a time until it dies. They can absorb a huge amount of firepower but eventually they will go down.
Spider is your 1st target priority (but only if you can see him). Then go for whatever mobility the Necrons have - Tomb Blades, Destroyers, Wraiths and Scarabs. If you don't take out his spiders, his Wraiths become so much harder to kill.
You do not need to play so aggressively with your Wraithguards. Have them near your main army and when his Destroyers drop, use them to take out the destroyers. You can also use them to deal with his advancing Wraiths, but they are more efficient at killing the Destroyers and your Scatbikes are more efficient at killing the Wraiths without Reanimation Protocols. In any case, you have enough WG's to deal with both Wraiths and Destroyers. Be careful of moving your serpents to close to his shooting though. Enough Gauss will glance them to death.
Prediction:
It's an easy win if your Eldar goes 2nd (perhaps a 75% chance of an Eldar victory). However, if Necrons go 2nd, then it becomes a much more challenging game. Believe it or not, but Necrons actually have the durability to survive all of your shooting. If Necrons go 2nd, then it will be a really close game. In that case, I'd say Necrons have a 55% chance to take it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok, last matchup from p.2. After this, I will be doing the matchups on p.3 of this thread.
Vankraken wrote: Orks vs Necrons, 2000 points maelstrom (the mission where the number of objectives held = how many you draw). This battle happened so I want to see how close you are at predicting the outcome and what occurred.
Orks 2000 points
Spoiler:
CAD Lucky Stikk Mega Armored Warboss (Warlord, rolled night fighting trait)
19 Shoota boyz + PK Nob
17 Slugga boyz + PK Nob (Warboss in this unit)
5 Meganobz, one has killsaws
10 Flash Gitz
11 Tankbustas + Busta Nob, 2 bomb squigs
Dakkajet with 3x supa shootas
Dakkajet with 3x supa shootas
Blitz Brigade (all have rams)
Battlewagon with rokkit launcha (boyz)
Battlewagon with rokkit launcha (boyz)
Battlewagon with killkannon (gitz)
Battlewagon with killkannon (meganobz)
Battlewagon with killkannon (bustas)
Necrons 2000 points
Spoiler:
CAD Catacomb Command Barge (Warlord)
Catacomb Command Barge
Triarch Stalker
3 Tomb Blades with Gauss
10 Warriors in Ghost Ark
10 Warriors in Ghost Ark
10 Warriors in Ghost Ark
Night Scythe
Night Scythe
3 Tomb Blades with Gauss
Doomsday Ark
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge
Ill even give you an assist with the Necrons winning the roll off and going 1st, Orks did not sieze, Dawn of War deployment, lots of terrain (50% covered), fair amount of LoS blocking.
It's hard to predict Maelstrom missions due to the randomness of the cards, but I will assume that the cards are fair to both armies. Otherwise, it becomes a case where tactics don't really matter and whoever had the better cards win.
Is it safe to assume that your Necron opponent had ObSec troops in those Night Scythes? I will assume so.
Both of you have good mobility in your armies. That's one of the most important traits of a good Maelstrom army. In terms of mobility, Necrons have a slight advantage due to his flyers and the Tomb Blades, but it isn't a huge advantage by any means.
Tips/Tactics:
Apply pressure on his units but always be close to the objectives. You never know when the Maelstrom objectives require you to after the objectives.
Going 2nd gives you a slight advantage, but only for the aerial combat. Whoever goes 2nd has the better chance to shoot down his opponent's flyer. It does not give any advantage to the Maelstrom missions.
As you've already played the game, I think I'll just skip down to my prediction.
Prediction:
Orks take this. Mobility is a slight advantage to the Crons, but you've got the better Board Control army. The lack of any counter-assault units in the Necron army means that they must stay away from your army, which also means that they will have trouble on the Secure Objective aspects of the Maelstrom missions. Also, Necrons don't have much of an answer for AV14, let alone massed AV14, other than to try to go for side shots and with lots of terrain, I imagine that you will be getting cover saves against the majority of his shooting. Finally, him going 1st means that you will probably shoot down his flyers and that there is no where for his tomb blades to hide.
blackmage wrote: ok so....
murder horde demonic incursion
K herald less reward, juggernaut, exalted locus
7 bloodcrushers champion with lesser reward
6x5 hounds
8 hounds
D thirster 2 greater rewards
karanak
opponent list
monobikes white scars with korsarro kan and GM about 6/7x5 bikes with meltas and GM on bike with EW save4+ power fist
the scenario is dawn of war emperor will.
Ah, I've been playing the Murderhorde lately. So much blood and so much fun!
This looks like it would be a fun match. Is the GM a Chapter Master with the 2+ and Shield Eternal? I'm not sure what GM is so I will assume he is (though the 4+ confuses me).
Tips/Tactics:
It's going to be hard to catch these guys. What they will be doing is to be playing the keep-away game, at least from your Thirster and your deathstar. You need to trap them, but be careful. They will shoot and then assault your MSU dog units and then Hit-&-Run away.
Whatever you do, you NEED to go 2nd in this game, especially since his army is ObSec and yours is not.
When placing objectives, if he places first, then place yours directly across from his. This makes it much easier for you to threaten both objectives and to keep him away.
You'll be chasing his bikers all game, but when it comes down to Turn 4, make sure your Thirster or deathstar are near the objectives. On Turn 5, he will have to turbo-boost towards the objective and then you can take him out there (assuming you went 2nd).
On Turn 4, screen out the objectives so that he cannot turbo-boost to claim/contest.
Take advantage of the short range of his meltas. He will focus on 1 unit at a time so stagger your guys back instead of forming a wall when you go after him. What you want to do is this. 1st unit of bikers shoot and kills 1-2 dogs. Now the 2nd unit of bikes, when they shoot, their meltaguns will be out of range due to you removing the closest models from the previous unit's shooting.
Either send all your forces at his guys or play the denial game. Do not just send 1 or 2 units towards his guys at a time. This just gives him time to shoot down the units you send and then redo it all over again.
Prediction:
It's as simple as this. You've both got good mobility. In that case, it's a matter of whoever goes 2nd will win in a straight-up Emperor's Will mission.
ty i tabled him anyway at recent tournament, he have mobility but me too i can fill the field with 30+dogs and crushers, he have nowhere to go and cant resist so much melee attacks, anyway the match up analisys is close, thanks doing this
ty i tabled him anyway at recent tournament, he have mobility but me too i can fill the field with 30+dogs and crushers, he have nowhere to go and cant resist so much melee attacks, anyway the match up analisys is close, thanks doing this
You're welcome.
I can definitely see that happening with your army. I've tabled or forced my opponent to concede in 3 of the 4 games I've had with my Murderhorde so far (though my list is far more nasty than yours). But a biker army run by a good general is a sneaky army indeed if you play it correctly. I actually lost to a White Scars army at the LVO 2014 before. I was running another board control army - Necrons with 18 wraiths - and with smart maneuvering and by forcing me to split up my wraiths, he managed to beat me. He then went on to finish the tournament 2nd place behind Alex Fennell's Seer Council Eldar.
Tau Hunter Contingent
Hunter Cadre:
HQ:
Commander: 2x Missile Pod, Drone Controller, Target Lock, Iridium Suit, 2x Marker Drone
Cadre Fireblade
Elites:
Crisis Suit Team: 1 suit, 2x Fusion Blaster
Crisis Suit Team: 2 suits, 2x Plasma Rifle and Target Lock on each, 3x Gun Drone
Troops:
Breacher Team: 10 men, Shas'ui upgrade, Guardian Drone, dedicated Devilfish w/Sensor Spines
Kroot Carnivore Squad: 12 men, Sniper Rounds
Strike Team: 19 men, DS8 Tactical Turret w/SMS Fast Attack:
Drone Squadron: 4 Marker Drones
Pathfinder Team: 4 men, 3x Rail Rifle
Pathfinder Team: 6 men
Heavy Support:
KV128 Stormsurge: Pulse Driver Cannon, TL Frag Projector, Shield Generator, Early Warning Override, Advanced Targeting System
Optimized Stealth Cadre:
XV95 Ghostkeel: 1 suit, Cyclic Ion Raker, TL Fusion Blaster, Early Warning Override, Velocity Tracker
Stealth Team: 3 suits, Shas'vre upgrade, Fusion on Shas'vre, Markerlight and Target Lock on Shas'vre
Stealth Team: 3 suits, Shas'vre upgrade, Fusion on Shas'vre, Markerlight and Target Lock on Shas'vre
Opponent's list:
Spoiler:
Eldar Combined Arms Detachment
HQ:
Farseer w/several upgrades, including the one that lets you reroll psychic tests, on foot (my opponent usually rolls on Runes of Fate)
Elites:
5 man unit of Fire Dragons in Wave Serpent
Troops:
Guardian Defenders: 20 men, 2 or 3 Bright Lances
2 or 3 3-man units of Scatbikes
Fast Attack:
2 8-man units of Warp Spiders
3-vehicle squadron of Hornets with S8 cannons
Heavy Support:
2-vehicle squadron of Fire Prisms
Lord of War:
Wraithknight with D-cannons and Scatter Laser
Mission: Another mission that I am not sure where it comes from or whether it is unique to us. Primary objectives are two Meat Grinder objectives near the center of the board (Hammer and Anvil deployment), each worth 2 VP at the beginning of a player's turn if they control it. Other objectives are two Crusader objectives in each player's deployment zone (4 total), near the corners of the board, that are worth 2 or 3 points to the player that controls them at the end of the game. Secondary objectives are the usual First Blood, Slay the Warlord, and Linebreaker.
I faced this list in a tournament a couple of months ago, but with my Daemonkin instead of Tau, and I got absolutely crushed. We have more than one Eldar player in my local meta, so I thought I would seek your sage advice on how my Tau might prevail against them.
Tips/Tactics:
You absolutely must not let him go 2nd in this mission. Objectives + Eldar speed = Windar! Don't worry about your alpha-strike. With good deployment and decent terrain, an Eldar army can minimize the damage anyways. Rather, let him come to you and then shoot the crap out of him.
Target Priority goes like this. 1) Take out his mobility. 2) Take out the easier-to-kill units first. Thus, highest priorities are the units who are easy to kill and really fast. Go after the Scatbikes whenever you have the opportunity. That means deepstriking suits, both crisis and/or stealth teams. If his spiders are NOT near BLOS (blocking-LOS) terrain, then you can go after them as well. Otherwise, they'll just jump behind terrain (hopefully, you guys aren't playing the spiders with unlimited Flickerjumps).
Use your Ghostkeel to f*ck up....I mean, to deal with his Hornets or Wave Serpent (I'd prioritize the Hornets over the WS).
Don't worry too much about the WK, at least not initially. When he gets closer, then your Stormsurge and your Strike Team can deal with him.
IMO, the spiders will be the biggest pain-in-the-a$$. Just let them come closer to you and then light them up with your strikers and Stormsurge. You can also go after them with your Breachers, but they will most likely jump out of range of their (breacher's) most dangerous shooting.
One of the most important thing is this. DO NOT play like a gunline. If you do, then you are conceding 2/3 of the objectives to your opponent (his objectives and the middle objectives). You should be advancing while he is advancing. Do it on the flanks because his WK is most likely going to move towards the middle (or wherever your SS is, because his WK will go after your SS). Advance your devilfish on 1 flank and perhaps your SS on the other. Deepstrike your Ghostkell for better shots against his vehicles. DS your suits to take out his fast but weak jetbike troops. It's a good sacrifice if you can take them out.
BTW, once you take out his WK, start advancing your SS aggressively towards the objectives.
Prediction:
Eldar has a major advantage in this game. They are playing an objectives mission with a much faster army. Moreover, they have better board control due to the Wraithknight. If Eldar goes 2nd, then your chances of winning this game is low, perhaps only 25%. If your Tau goes 2nd, and you manage to kill off his mobile scatbikes, Hornets and warp spiders, then your chances for a victory is good, perhaps 66%.
Thanks for the advice. I will consider it in all games against Eldar, as I've seen several similar lists (some with Vaul D-weapon batteries or Wraithguard in Wave Serpents instead of Hornets). I realized I made a small typo and listed my strike team as 19 men. It's only 9 men, you can't even take 19!
Warpflame host
2x16 horrors, one iridescent in the same unit the herald joins
2x12 horrors, one with icon only, one with icon+instrument
Unit of 5 exalted flamers (the target of endurance)
Herald of tzeentch, oracular dais, lvl 3, Locus of conjuration
Dp of tzeentch, lvl 3, wings + armour, 2 greater rewards, one lesser, paradox (rolling on biomancy for endurance)
Lord of change, lvl3, 2 greater rewards one lesser, impossible robes
Forgehost:
3 soul grinders of tzeentch, one with torrent two with warp gaze
Opponents list:
Wraith knight with ghost glaive, scattersheild
2×3 scatterbikes
Eldrad
Fire dragons+ exarch with firepike, falcon
Wraith guard, scythes, serpent
Rangers
Dark reapers, str8 missiles
Dire avengers x 10, exarch, footslogging
Vyper
Hemlock wraith fighter (the one with a heavy d scythe)
I believe I missed a few upgrades in my opponents list but that's the gist anyways. Non ITC, standard maelstrom mission (both players get max 3 objectives each turn) both lists are 2000 I believe.
I should mention that my list isn't optimal, I'm trying to see how feasible it will be to use exalted flamers. The plan is to use the dais to autopass a unit of horrors with instrument and icon in, deep striking off the other icon accurately and using the instrument to chain in the flamers within range of endurance and an enemy unit. My biggest worry is by far, that wraith knight. I don't know if my list can handle him alone, even without all the shooting the list has.
I'll probably be using the LOC as my warlord, and using him as a gunboat unless he rolls the D power straight away and precognition, then he'll be short range shooting+ charging units. The daemon prince will be babysitting the exalted flamers and trying to survive while taking some shots if he gets line of sight. Will probably keep him gliding after turn 1 to allow him to countercharge if my squishy units get in trouble.
The soul grinders seem like just a points sink really, but you'll let me know I'm sure!
Thanks for this thread!
I've been meaning to try the Tzeentch formations. I just don't have all of the models I need for it yet.
I really don't get the Exalted Flamers. While the concept is cool, the design and execution is really poor. Here you have a unit with a very short range - 18" only. He's toting a Heavy weapon yet he is just a regular infantry (6" move) without any form of Relentless. If he moves, he can only snapfire the S9 AP2 shot and can't fire his S5 AP3 Torrent at all! That means you can't deepstrike him off Icons and then flame your opponent's unit. Talk about craptastic.
Eldar are the Masters of Maelstroms. You don't have his mobility. However, you can make up for that with Summoning. Basically, the thing that your army does well is Summoning and massed S7 shooting.
Tips/Tactics:
Summoning is your great equalizer to Eldar mobility here. Summon a lot of units. Summon fast units like Screamers, Flesh Hounds, Plague Drones or even Seekers. The more you have, the harder it will be for your opponent to deal with your army. Tarpit his WK and then go after the rest of his army. Feed his WK units to keep him in combat if you have to. You don't need to kill the WK to beat Eldar. Immobilizing him, preferably away from an objective, is just as good.
How you will beat Eldar is with board control. If you can tie up his WK with your summoned units, then you can essentially control the board. You may lose units to his shooting, but he will have to stay away from the objectives as long as your fast assault units and soulgrinders are nearby.
Kill his Scatbikes as early as you can. Chase them down and either shoot them with psychic shooting of if you have Screamers, do the Flyby attacks. KILL his mobility.
Prediction:
This actually isn't a very good matchup for your Eldar opponent. His list is well rounded but it isn't particularly suited to dealing with massed infantry, especially the type with Invuln saves and 4+ cover (in ruins). And while Eldar has better mobility, your army actually has better board control with the help of Summoning.
This is one of the few games where I can see Eldar losing in the Maelstrom missions. Winner - Daemons.
Swampmist wrote: I think the point of rolling biomancy is to endurance the flamers so they have relentless
Good call. I forgot about that.
Still a 1-trick pony and not a very reliable one. Though as a tax unit, the Exalted Flamer is cheaper than the horrors, which is the main reason why I see them being taken.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Orock wrote: Orks with trukks, 3 squads of 6 tankbustas some bikes battlewagons and bullyboyz and 5 kustom mega kannonz with bikerboss with stikk and painboy on bike(2k) 's necrons with at least 12 wraiths, the necron bikes, their jump troops, 2 transport flyers with cryptek and 2 squads of immortals, 20 flayed ones and a ctan.
I will assume ITC and that you play Orks.
Tips/Tactics:
Play aggressive do what orks do best which is rush enemy and stomp them be careful of flayed ones they will clean your clock, Focus on 1 unit of wraiths at a time with your offense don't spread yourself too much by trying to assault multiple units.
But seriously, the Necrons are pretty deadly in assault. It doesn't look like your opponent is running the Reclamation Legion, which is a good thing for you. Makes them slightly easier to kill. But man, watch out for that unit of flayed ones. I've ran a unit of 20 FO's before and I easily massacred a unit of Nobs with them. They are pretty nasty, especially when assisted with 2 units of wraiths!
Prediction:
You both have mobility. You are both playing Assault-oriented armies. Forget about the objectives and just scrum in the middle, in which case the more resilient army (and also the army with the better board control) will take it. Or you could do the unorky thing by avoiding combat and playing for the objectives instead. Nah.... Either ways, Necrons take it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
arthorn wrote: Love the work man, some good ideas on how to play missions and what should be focussed on! Thanks for the insight
Thanks!
luke1705 wrote: Are other people welcome to try and look good in a bikini? I know it's not my strong suit, but since it's international women's day and all, I just feel like it's something we should encourage
Remember, it's not true until you post some pictures of the interwebz....
coblen wrote: Your predictions where pretty spot on. The wraith knight died to centurions. I had hoped that the autarch would have helped keep him off the board but alas it did not. We never killed a single devilish. The orks and space marines died in droves. Our opponents surrendered when they drew there 4th turn objectives and realized the score was 15-5.
Some things nobody saw coming though.
Such as the tau player just moving everything flat out towards us first turn killing nothing, and leaving all the objectives on there side untouched. Then we pulled the hold every objective card on the turn all 3 of my swooping hawks came in so that was like 5 points right there.
The assassin walking on flaming just enough boys to have the war bosses squad take morale. Which it failed, but it got a reroll from his warlord trait. Which it failed. Good thing for Mob rule. He rolled a one. Good thing for boss poles. He rolls another one. He then gets a good solid 10 inch run right off the table. This is the third game in a row I've played with this guy where his war boss runs away before he ever gets into combat. I think this warboss is actually three grots riding on each others shoulders in a suit.
Lol. Maybe the Warhammer Gods are sending him a sign....to find a new partner.
Thanks jy2! It's a good sign that you think I would win even though you forgot the exalted flamers can be given relentless by the list. That means if I can manage to get it off, I'll have a pretty heavy alpha strike vs. One enemy unit that doesn't require warp charge to help tip the scales even more in the early game.
I also want to point out that the exalted flamers also get +1 strength to shooting from being in a Warpflame host, so str10 ap2 solid shots and str6 ap3 torrents.
A big question of mine I would ask of you if you don't mind further discussion is what do you think my primary target should be for the exalted flamers if I can manage to endurance them? I've never had much deep striking high strength shooting and am worried about wasting it. They are actually probably the best target for endurance in the game aside from plague drones, T4 W3 heavy weapons with charge deterrence in the form of wall of death benefits greatly from fnp eternal warrior and relentless. They would be hard to remove yet impossible to ignore. That said I know I might not get endurance, lol. My first thought is the serpent, as it seems pointless to try and kill the WK as you said. I guess it might depend on how well he protects Eldrad.
AncientSkarbrand wrote: Thanks jy2! It's a good sign that you think I would win even though you forgot the exalted flamers can be given relentless by the list. That means if I can manage to get it off, I'll have a pretty heavy alpha strike vs. One enemy unit that doesn't require warp charge to help tip the scales even more in the early game.
I also want to point out that the exalted flamers also get +1 strength to shooting from being in a Warpflame host, so str10 ap2 solid shots and str6 ap3 torrents.
A big question of mine I would ask of you if you don't mind further discussion is what do you think my primary target should be for the exalted flamers if I can manage to endurance them? I've never had much deep striking high strength shooting and am worried about wasting it. They are actually probably the best target for endurance in the game aside from plague drones, T4 W3 heavy weapons with charge deterrence in the form of wall of death benefits greatly from fnp eternal warrior and relentless. They would be hard to remove yet impossible to ignore. That said I know I might not get endurance, lol. My first thought is the serpent, as it seems pointless to try and kill the WK as you said. I guess it might depend on how well he protects Eldrad.
Again, thank you for your time and consideration!
Even without Endurance or the Exalted Flamer "tricks", the list is strong enough on its own to win if you do Summoning. I'll consider any damage the Flamers to do to be a bonus. I wouldn't exactly call your alpha-strike heavy. For it to work, a few things need to go right. Assuming you are bringing in a unit of pink horrors with the Oracular Dias, you then need for the Flamers to actually come in. You need to have the right target to actually be in range, you need to hit with the S10 shot on BS4 and most importantly, you need to actually get Endurance as one of your psychic powers. On top of that, Wave Serpent will be getting 4+ jink and Serpent Shields can downgrade any Pen's to Glances. Then next turn, the unit gets assaulted by his WK. Overall, it's not a very reliable tactic at best and the outcome usually isn't worth the 250-pt sacrifice. Just too many hoops you have to jump through to get it to work properly. However, like I said, the value in the Exalted Flamers is that they make the Warpflame Host cheaper so that you can spend the points on other good units to round out your list. And while the "flamer-strike" is not exactly reliable, you could split them up and play the MSU game with them.
But assuming you do go with the flamer-strike tactic, I'd go after the Falcon first with them. Kill off all mobile units, including the Falc and the Wave Serpent. Against the WS, it's better to fire Flickerfire at it. This way, your S10 won't be wasted due to its Serpent Shields. As the Falcon lacks the Serpent Shields, you can potentially blow it up with your Flamers. Against the WK, just let him charge you and then tie him up in combat thereafter with your Flamers and with summoned units.
Missions: Maelstorm + Eternal war combined. 3 cards each turn flat, can only score 2 cards each turn. (Eternal war give extra points, for example emperor's will is wroth pointsx2) Impossible cards are redrawn
My Army:
Clan Raukaan - CAD Captain, bike, fist, gorgons chain (3+fnp), artificer, lightning claw
Chaplain, bike
3 bikes
3 bikes
5 Command Squad, bikes, 4 stormshield, apothecary, powerfist (apoth and BA priest so deathstar can split)
Quad Mortar x2 (the str8 tank hunter and str5 blast thingy)
Quad Mortar
Quad Mortar
Land Speeder Storm, multimelta (BA scouts go in this and outflank)
BA Allied
Sanguinary Priest, bike, fist, claw
5 Scouts, close combat
Ravenwing Strike Force
Sammael
Darkshroud (Give Deathstar 2+ jink or/and attack bikes)
Attack bike MM (will often outflank)
Attack bike MM (will often outflank)
Attack bike MM (will often outflank)
Inquisition
Inqusitor, rad grenades, 2 servo skulls 46 (goes in deathstar if playing vs close combat armies)
Psyker, henchman 18 (Prescience the mortars)
Psyker, henchman 18 (Prescience the mortars)
1648 points
Opponent's Army:
Standard White Scar gladius with hunters eye, rhino spam. Grav cannon devs and some tacticals (7 grav-cannon total)
Worried white scar will outflank whole army + obsec spam
You have better resiliency, but he's got a ton of units and a very strong alpha-strike.
This will be an interesting battle.
Tips/Tactics:
If he goes 1st, then he will Scout up and hit you with a very nasty alpha-strike. If he doesn't, he may still deploy his units due to your lack of a very strong alpha-strike yourself. Usually, White Scars BC don't normally Outflank unless 1) you have a very strong alpha-strike or 2) you have a very nasty deathstar. Your deathstar is good, but it isn't TWC-good. He'll survive.
One of the main reasons why Grav-BC doesn't like to Outflank is because of the Salvo nature of his main weapons, the Grav-Cannons. Move and he can only fire 12". This limits his army a lot, especially in Dawn of War or Vanguard Strike deployments. You can take advantage of that fact by staying more than 24" away from his Grav units until you get into a position you are comfortable with.
Go after his flanks. This will minimize the amount of return-fire against your army as his further units will be out of range. Preferably, go after the flank where his Hunter's Eye character isn't at.
Normally, I advocate going 2nd in an Eternal War mission. However, this is one army where going 1st may be more prudent. Why? Because of board control. If he goes 1st, he will Scout forwards and entrench his units near the objectives (at the same time, giving him the alpha-strike against you). Then he will have control of the board with lots of ObSec units. However, if you go first, then he won't Scout forwards and now you can take control of the board. It'll be easier for you to take objectives because he won't already be on them, and if he moves onto them, it reduces his capability to deal with your army as his Grav-range is essentially cut in half. That's a win-win situation for you.
You're going to have to use everything you've got to de-mech his infantry. If you go 1st, don't outflank. Bum rush him with your entire army and try to take out as many of his transports as possible. This makes it easier for your star to assault and eat only 1 turn of shooting instead of 2. The more vehicles you can destroy before your star gets into combat, the better. Otherwise, your star won't survive multiple turns of shooting from that many units. The quicker you can de-mech his guys, the better your chances are for victory.
Prediction:
If Battle Company goes 1st, his chances of winning is very good. If you can go 1st, you have a chance to make this a fight. No matter which, you will have to eat 1 or perhaps even 2 turns of BC firepower and if your shooting does not go above-average, it'll probably be 3 turns of firepower that you will have to eat. If your opponent goes 1st, I would say his chances of winning is 80%. If you go first, then I would say your chances of winning would be 45%. Either ways, you're going to be the underdog in this battle.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Otto Weston wrote: Alright, I'll bite... have a game on Thursday and I think I know how it'll go but I want to see your proposed tactics
DKOK versus Spore Cloud
Wow, what a crazy Tyanid list! He's only got 4 scoring units and 3 of them can't move!
While I don't know much about the DKoK army, I am going to assume that they play somewhat similar to guards.
Tips/Tactics:
No tactics necessary here. Just survive and you win.....unless you guys are playing Kill Points.
Prediction:
Without the ability to take/hold objectives effectively for Tyranids, DKoK wins as long as you guys aren't playing Kill Points. It won't be much of a game, but the carnage from all those spores would be a sight to behold indeed. I can just see guardsmen's limbs flying all over the place. Lol.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the queue for tomorrow:
1. iddy00711
2. Green is Best!
3. Aleinikov
4. X078
Otto Weston wrote: Alright, I'll bite... have a game on Thursday and I think I know how it'll go but I want to see your proposed tactics
DKOK versus Spore Cloud
Wow, what a crazy Tyanid list! He's only got 4 scoring units and 3 of them can't move!
While I don't know much about the DKoK army, I am going to assume that they play somewhat similar to guards.
Tips/Tactics:
No tactics necessary here. Just survive and you win.....unless you guys are playing Kill Points.
Prediction:
Without the ability to take/hold objectives effectively for Tyranids, DKoK wins as long as you guys aren't playing Kill Points. It won't be much of a game, but the carnage from all those spores would be a sight to behold indeed. I can just see guardsmen's limbs flying all over the place. Lol.
It was a bloody brilliant game - very interesting and didn't quite go as expected.
For the first 4 turns, DKOK held their deployment zone against wave after wave of Spores and clouds of spores dropping from the sky to land among their lines. Artillery focussed on thinning the horde and then primaried Old One Eye when he approached the DKOK lines. With the tide thinning, the DKOK attempted to push out turn 5+6 and then the game ended.
Casualties -
DKOK: 6 men (24 points)
Nids: 74 mines, 43 mucolids, 5 mieotic spores, Old One Eye (1,310 points)
Results (We were playing Maelstrom of War):
Game ended in a draw with 5 VP's a side
DKOK (First Blood, Slay the Warlord, 3 Captured Objectives)
Nids (5 Captured Objectives)
Automatically Appended Next Post: "In my Daemon army, I am running the D-thirster and the Khorne Knight. They make for a very good combination. Took them to the LVO and they did quite well"
and what you played at LVO?
jy2 wrote:
If he goes 1st, then he will Scout up and hit you with a very nasty alpha-strike. If he doesn't, he may still deploy his units due to your lack of a very strong alpha-strike yourself. Usually, White Scars BC don't normally Outflank unless 1) you have a very strong alpha-strike or 2) you have a very nasty deathstar. Your deathstar is good, but it isn't TWC-good. He'll survive.
I have servo skulls in the list, but thanks for the input!
I'll take a stab at this. A friend and I am prepping for an upcoming GT, 1850 modified ITC FAQ. Don't know specifics on the missions yet beyond that 4 have objectives as primary and 2 with kill points as primary all have maelstrom secondary.
My tau list
Spoiler:
CAD Commander
2 x MD, DC, 2 x MP,TL, Iridium
XV8 Crisis Battlesuits
BKR, 2 x FB
2 x 2 XV8 Crisis Battlesuits
BKR, 2 x Ion
2 x 2 XV8 Crisis Battlesuits
BKR ,2 x Plasma
4x MD
XV109 Y'vahra Battlesuit
Stims
2 x 1 Missileside
BKR, EWO
VSG
2x Projected Void Shields
Optimized Stealth Cadre
XV25 Stealth Battlesuits
1 x FB
XV25 Stealth Battlesuits
1 x FB
XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuits
BKR, 3 x ion, 3 x EWO, 2 x TL, 3 x FB, 1 x VT
jy2 wrote:
If he goes 1st, then he will Scout up and hit you with a very nasty alpha-strike. If he doesn't, he may still deploy his units due to your lack of a very strong alpha-strike yourself. Usually, White Scars BC don't normally Outflank unless 1) you have a very strong alpha-strike or 2) you have a very nasty deathstar. Your deathstar is good, but it isn't TWC-good. He'll survive.
I have servo skulls in the list, but thanks for the input!
Sorry I missed that.
That makes it easier for you. Going 2nd gives you a slight advantage with regards to the Eternal War mission. Just deploy out of his threat range and he'll lose one turn of Grav-shooting. The rest of the tactics remain the same. The faster you can de-mech him, the better your chances are for a victory.
iddy00711 wrote: Hey I've got this one to try out. 1850ish. ETC missions. Primary is crusade, secondary is cleanse and control.
Eldar ( with Doom of M.) - Me
1 Farseer
2x3 scat bikes
S. wraithknight - inferno lances, 2xscat lasers.
warp hunter
Aux.
3x 5 warpspiders + exarch
Aux
3x 5 warpspiders + exarch
Knight detachment
CERASTUS KNIGHT-ACHERON
1850
Versus
Curse of the wolfen daemons
Burning sky host
9x3 screamers
Herald on a disk
Baronial court
3 knight wardens
1870
This will be an interesting matchup. I plan to run the Burning Skyhost myself once I have enough Screamers.
Screamers from the Skyhost are one of the units that can potentially give Warp Spiders some problems as they have the ability to bypass the spider's Flickerjump defensive ability. His Daemons can match your Eldar in mobility. He's also got 3 Super-heavies compared to your 2. Lastly, you both are about even in the Kill Points department. It's going to come down to whoever can kill each other's supporting units faster with probably take this game.
Tips/Tactics:
You want to kill off his mobility. That means target the Screamers with the majority of your shooting.
You also can't ignore his Knights. They will gang up against your Super-heavies. Use the Warp Hunter and WK against them and when they get close enough, charge 1 Knight at a time with both of your Supers (unless it is already severely weakened from your shooting). Essentially, you need to gang up on his Knights one at a time. You can't afford to do a 2-vs-3 battle, especially since your WK doesn't sport D weapons in close-combat.
Opt to go 2nd. An experienced player can easily minimize your alpha-strike through clever deployment, so you might as well go 2nd for the last-turn Crusade objective-grab/contest. Besides, if you advance with your spiders, it just makes it easier for his Screamers to do their flyby attack against them.
Prediction:
This is a battle I would want to test out against my friend's Mymeara Eldar army had I the models, but I don't have all my Screamers yet. It's going to be a close battle, almost a coin flip, between 2 very good armies. However, I am going to give your Daemon opponent the Win here.
Crusade is going to come down to who goes 2nd. It's about a 50/50 here.
Kill Points is about even. Again, about 50/50 here as well.
With regards to the Maelstroms, IMO his mobility is slightly better than yours. Moreover, he's got 3 D-toting close combat Super-heavies compared to your 2 (of which only 1 his a D close-combat weapon). Thus, he's also got slightly better board control. He has the advantage and will take Maelstrom.
The X-factor here is that he can and will resort to Summoning to give him the edge that he needs against your army.
Finally, he is ignoring one of your best defenses, the Flickerjump. You don't have that advantage in this game like your normally do against other armies.
Obeliske, you have to give a list this is way to generic and just means what do you think of this match up. The op only wanted list, atleast all units described
iddy00711 wrote: Cheers for the write up mate, although I'd probably null deploy with a single bait unit and then deepstrike the rest of the spiders on.
Null deployment is a fine strategy if you don't mind giving your opponent the potential early lead in the Maelstrom department. Personally, I'd probably leave 2-3 units of Spiders on the table to start and then deepstrike the rest of the Spiders. Then just stay out of range of his Flyby attacks on Turn 1. You need some shooting to thin out his Screamers.
Green is Best! wrote: OK, I'm sold. And I will keep up the Necron theme as they are currently a pain in my .... well.... you know.
Looks like your Necron opponent is running the Reclamation Legion + Destroyer Cult. That is bad news for you. His army is super tough.
With the amount of Grav in your army, he'd probably deepstrike his Monolith. If he's experienced, he'd probably keep his Command Barge outside of your Grav range as well.
Tips/Tactics:
As you are playing the Relic, I would recommend going 1st in this game. Scout with your Scout bikes up onto the Relic if possible. Then on your Shooting phase, turbo-boost them back 6" towards your deployment table. If your Necron opponent went 1st, he'd probably do the same thing. (Note - the restriction on the Relic is that you cannot Run with it, but most tournament formats allow you to turbo-boost with it as long as you move no more than 6".)
Then kill off all of his mobility, starting with the Tomb Blades if you have the range and then the Destroyers.
As soon as his CCB (Command Barge) or Monolith gets within range, immobilize them with Grav. BTW, his infantry has the resiliency to withstand your Grav as long as they are in cover (4+/5+ cover followed by 4+ Reanimation Protocols).
Then block off his infantry from reaching the Relic with screening units.
Keep in cover. His Destroyers are brutally good against your army. You will have a hard time holding down the Relic because of them.
If you're going 2nd, keep those Scouts in Land Speeder Storms alive at all costs. You're going to need them to take away his Relic on the last turn, especially since your troops are ObSec and his are not. But remember, an experienced Necron general will likely do to you what you should be doing to him, and that is to take out your mobility. The ObSec LSS's will be a priority target for your Necron opponent.
Prediction:
Normally, the Necron Decurion will be a tough matchup for most Marine armies. I don't see any exception in this case. You will have problems trying to kill his army, even with all the Grav in your army. Fortunately for you, you don't necessarily need to kill off his army to win. You just need to kill off his mobility. With the mission being pure Relic, it's going to boil down to this....whoever is going 1st will have the advantage. But if going 1st is 50:50, I'm going to predict that the Necron resiliency will give your opponent 55:45 odds of taking this game.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Aleinikov wrote: This one is fun! So I would like to put up my upcoming match:
Holy crap! What a deathstar! Looks like your opponent went all in with his deathstar.
I am not too familiar with Renegades so I won't be too specific with your army. Instead, I will give you more general tactics.
Keep in mind the following "weaknesses" of Deathstar armies:
1. They have limited resources.
2. You can beat Deathstar armies not by killing the Deathstar itself but, rather, by killing his Support units.
Tips/Tactics:
You need mobility in your army. I only see 4 mobile units - the Chaos Spawns and your Heldrake. If you have any units that can Outflank or Deepstrike, then do so. The goal here is to force him to make decisions with regards to where his star needs to go. Otherwise, he'd just bum-rush your army in your deployment zone.
Do not deploy together. Deploy far away from each other - on opposite corners if you have to. Force him to go 1 direction or the other. Deepstrike/outflank guys behind him (if you have the capability). He can only be in 1 location at a time unless he splits off. If he splits off, then make that unit pay and focus your shooting on it.
Deploy your fast units (i.e. the Spawns) on the flanks as well and rush them forwards towards his deployment zone, especially if you have no deepstrikers/outflankers.
Use screening tactics. Impede his movement with your sacrificial infantry units. Just be careful in your positioning to minimize his chances for a multi-charge. The goal is to slow down his star and only lose 1 unit by doing so. However, with the large footprint of his deathstar, that may be hard to do.
If you have any Ignores Cover firepower, then take out his Darkshroud first. That is a high priority target, but keep in mind, he won't make it easy for you to do so.
Prediction:
This is really a hard game to predict. Pure Maelstrom is just so random. However, due to your lack of mobility, which is one of the most important characteristics of a good Maelstrom army, I am going to say that the Wolfstar takes this one. He's got Board Control and you just don't have the mobility to make it to the objectives without having to get through his star.
6 Points based Objectives (1 1 2 2 3 3)
BRB mix (Eternal War, Maelstrom of War, 3 Tactical Objective cards each turn with 2 scoring maximum, may discard 1 card each turn)
Kill points
Tau Empire (me)
Heavy Retribution Cadre (Monsoon of Destruction, Optimum Fire Position) Stormsurge [Early Warning Override, Pulse Blastcannon, Shield Generator, Twin-linked Airbursting Fragmentation Projector, Warlord]
Stormsurge [Early Warning Override, Pulse Blastcannon, Shield Generator, Twin-linked Airbursting Fragmentation Projector]
Ghostkeel [Cyclic Ion Raker, Twin-linked Fusion Blaster] (Fire Team, EWS, Supporting Fire) Ghostkeel [Cyclic Ion Raker, Early Warning Override, Target Lock, Twin-linked Fusion Blaster] (Fire Team, EWS, Supporting Fire) Ghostkeel [Cyclic Ion Raker, Early Warning Override, Target Lock, Twin-linked Fusion Blaster] (Fire Team, EWS, Supporting Fire)
This is going to be a tough battle for your DE opponent. IMO, he just does not have the firepower to deal with all of your MC's and all of your MC's are deadly to his transports.
Tips/Tactics:
Be aggressive. Advance with your MC's. Head towards the objectives, even with your Surges. When they are on (or near) an objective, then you can plant your Surges down or do Hailfire with your Iontides. Thus, it'll probably be T2 before you unleash your full firepower, and when you do, I don't see the game continuing for very much longer.
I probably don't need to tell you to take out those Trueborn venoms first.
Prediction:
Sorry, but not much tactics is necessary here. Get in position. Shoot. Profit.
Tau annihilates DE in this game. You won't table him because of his flyers....no, wait, let me rephrase that.....you won't table him because he'll concede before you get the chance to.
About this match
demon CAD LOC 3°lev. 1 exalted rew i greater rew impossible robe
(should switch for D thirster but unsure)
Kairos
2x11 horrors
chaos knight errat dirge caster mark of Korne
Chaos allied
Be'lakor
10 cuiltist
Orikan
D lord with voidblade
6+6+6 immortals
6+6 wraiths with wiph coils
7 lichguards shield+hyper sword
3+3 tomb guards nebuloscope
3 canoptek scarabs
canoptek spider
3 heavy destroyers
Scenario is pure maelstrom lost contact.
Alright jy, I'll give you one that was already played and we can see how accurately you predict the actual results 1850pts 2015 ITC scenarios and FAQ
Side A: GK Nemesis (Primary) PML3 Libby w/ DLD 5 man GKSS NDK with Teleport, Sword, Psycan, Incin NDK with Teleport, Sword, Psycan, Psilen Draigo SM Allied Tiggy 5 man Marine with Melta and combiMelta in Pod 3 Cents with Grav (no other upgrades) Hero's Path Formation PML2 Shadowseer w/ Mask Death Jester Solitare
FirePainter wrote: I'll take a stab at this. A friend and I am prepping for an upcoming GT, 1850 modified ITC FAQ. Don't know specifics on the missions yet beyond that 4 have objectives as primary and 2 with kill points as primary all have maelstrom secondary.
My tau list
Spoiler:
CAD Commander
2 x MD, DC, 2 x MP,TL, Iridium
XV8 Crisis Battlesuits
BKR, 2 x FB
2 x 2 XV8 Crisis Battlesuits
BKR, 2 x Ion
2 x 2 XV8 Crisis Battlesuits
BKR ,2 x Plasma
4x MD
XV109 Y'vahra Battlesuit
Stims
2 x 1 Missileside
BKR, EWO
VSG
2x Projected Void Shields
Optimized Stealth Cadre
XV25 Stealth Battlesuits
1 x FB
XV25 Stealth Battlesuits
1 x FB
XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuits
BKR, 3 x ion, 3 x EWO, 2 x TL, 3 x FB, 1 x VT
Shining Spears
4x Shining Spear
Shining Spear Exarch
Star Lance
Wraithknight
2x Scatter laser, d-cannons
Crimson Death
Crimson Hunter
Exarch, BL
Crimson Hunter
BL
Crimson Hunter
BL
It is strange that he is only running 1 dedicated transport but 2 units of wraithguards. If one of them is on foot, then that is good for you. Could it be that the WS is a Fast Attack? That would make more sense because then, he will have the flexibility to start either units of WG's in it depending on what the opponent brings.
As you are running the ITC FAQ, I am going to assume you guys will be playing ITC missions or something similar to it.
Tips/Tactics:
Your OSC is the best tool to deal with his vehicles, whether it be the WS or the flyers. Try to keep them alive until then.
Kill off his mobility. If you can, take out his Scatbikes if presented the opportunity with outflanking Stealth teams, deepstriking suits and even the Y'vahra. Just make sure to keep the Y'vahra out of the WK's threat range.
The VSG will only protect you against his initial volley. Don't expect it to last for very long, especially with that many scatter lasers coming your way. Don't rely too much on it.
Do not deploy everything in your deployment zone. You need different deployment tactics like deepstriking suits and perhaps outflanking or infiltrating Stealth suits.
Take advantage of cover for your stealthier units. Your Eldar opponent lacks cover-ignoring firepower.
Too me, the WK and the flyers are lower-priority targets. My target philosophy is mobility and efficiency-of-kill. What that means is kill the fastest, easiest-to-kill scoring units first. Save the slow or really tough-to-kill units for last.
Oh, and opt to go 2nd. Scatbikes + 2nd Turn in an Objectives mission = bad news.
Prediction:
I feel that the lack of Markerlights in your army will hurt you in this game. Just 1 source of Markerlights isn't enough, especially when you are going after MSU units. Your Eldar opponent will have a strong Board Control advantage, especially with his WK + Wraithguards, as well as a huge mobility advantage. To success of your army will depend on how quickly you can kill his Scatbike units but without a way to control your Reserves (and with only 1 source for Markerlights), I don't think you will be able to kill them fast enough. I will bet on Eldar in this matchup.
Alright I've got another. It was already played but we shall see if you think the result was a fluke.
I think it was 1850 but may have been 2000 points
Just maelstrom since it was a pick up game. We got the one where you need to hold objectives to draw more cards
My army Militarum tempestus
Airborne assault formation
2 valks with multi rocket pods and two with the hellstruke missiles
Command squad with 4 plasma guns
3 5 man squads with 2 meltas
Bare commissar
Ground assault formation
4 tauroxes with ML and autocannon. I think some had camo netting as well.
Command squad with 4 flamers
3 5 man squads with 2 hotshot volleyguns each
Bare commissar
Culexus assassin
His list
Infernal tetrad with one of each god
Belakor
A unit of nurglings (the swarm guys)
A unit of plaguebearers
Oh yes and I chose to go second and had the tauroxes on the table turn one deployed away from 3 of his 5 flying demons.
Who will win? Obviously the Eldar player will have some advantage, and if the WK gets into the infantry who knows what will stop it.
Tips/Tactics:
I am not too familiar with Renegades so forgive me if I get some of their army-specific rules wrong. As they are a little similar to Astra Militarum, I am using AM as a basis for your army rules-wise.
Be aggressive. Push your army forwards. Use your Scorpion to control the board but beware of Wall of Death Ovewatch from his Wraithguards. If the WG's are out in the open, then nuke them with the Scorpion's shooting and then charge the WG's with a Renegade squad first to eat Ovewatch.
I would recommend not blobbing your units up. Overwhelm him with more ObSec than he can handle.
You want to go 1st in this game. Eldar mobility and jetbikes means that on T1, if your Eldar opponent went 1st, he would just move his bikes on top of the Relic and then turbo-boost them back 6" in his Shooting phase. You won't be able to catch him then.
Prediction:
Eldar will win the Secondary Maelstrom. He's just got too much mobility and he can very easily kill your MSU troops in the VP objectives. Your only chance is to win Primary (and only if you went 1st) but then, you are almost certain to give up First Strike. Best-case scenario, you win Primary but lose by 1-pt due to First Strike in a very close game (at least point-wise). Worst-case scenario, you get slaughtered by the Mission. Either ways, Eldar takes it.
Hit them and hit them hard. Against Daemons, going 1st can potentially cripple him with your alpha-strike. Ignore the Tzeentch DP. He is just too hard to kill. Ignore the Nurgle DP initially as well unless you have some ways to ignore or reduce cover. He'll be sporting 2+ cover. Be'lakor will also be sporting 2+ cover. That leaves the Khorne and Slaanesh DP's that you could try to take out with your alpha-strikes. Try to land on or near objectives. After your initial alpha-strike, you'll have to weather the storm and the Summoning.
Against Space Wolves, naturally you'd want to go 2nd. The game is much easier if you get the alpha-strike on your opponent. If you are forced to go 1st and decide to alpha-strike his Knight, be careful not to drop too far away from the objectives. Otherwise, you will lose even if you do manage to take out his Knight. If you go 2nd, then kill off all his infantry first and ignore the Knight. The Knight will do its thing, however, what will beat you are his troops on objectives.
Prediction:
Daemons will be a rough matchup for your army. Even in the best-case scenario where you come in and take out 2 DP's, you will still struggle due to all the new units they can bring in via Summoning. The lack of Cover Ignoring (or even cover reducing) firepower means that you will struggle to take down DP's in range of Be'lakor's Shrouding bubble (from psychic powers). Even if you do manage to turn off Shrouding for a turn with your Culexus, you won't be able to turn off Be'lakor or the Nurgle Prince's natural Shrouding or the Tzeentch DP's natural 3++. When they get into combat, you don't have anything that can stand up to his DP's in combat. IMO, best-case scenario, your chances for a victory is 55%. Average scenario, your chances for a victory is 40%. As for worst-case scenario, your army gets slaughtered.
I think your army will fare much better against Space Wolves, especially if you go 2nd. Your army has the tools to devastate his infantry to the point where it could be a blow-out if you get 2nd turn. If you go 1st however, things get a little tricky. You'd want to bring your Skyhammer down on T2. However, you'll want to leave enough units on the ground so that you won't get tabled. Overall, I think that if your Space Wolf opponent went 2nd, I'd say he would be a slight favorite with a 55% chance for a victory. But if you went 2nd, then you are a heavy favorite to take this game, perhaps as high as a 75% chance for a victory. Overall, this matchup should favor your army.
I have a list I like you to compare vs your White scar bike list in the first post.
Your List copied from their.
Points: 1850
Missions: New ITC
My list. I will be rolling on the Santic or Biomance powers will depend on who I am facing. Will be using the drop pod for wolfen with the 3 storm shields turn one.
+++ Wolf Pounce (1850pts) +++
++ Space Wolves: Codex (2014) (SW Company of the Great Wolf Detachment) ++
Would love to see how this list woud far vs your Tyranids.. But I play Tyranids so I pretty sure how that game would go. I haven't played you since TSHFT in WA a couple years ago where I got lucky and Beat your Necrons with my Tyranids round 1. I am still playing Tyranids but thought I would try out Assault Space wolves for a change.
I've really been enjoying this thread. Fun and insightful. So I thought I'd throw in as well.
Mission: The Emperor's Will Deployment: Hammer and Anvil Dark Eldar Realspace Raiders vs Unbound Tau 1500pts. (Double blind pregame, so neither player knew what army he would face; although I suspect my opponent may have guessed that I might play my newly finished Dark Eldar LOL).
The table has plenty of ruins and some LOS blocking terrain. Good fire lanes down the flanks.
Dark Eldar
Archon w/ Blast Pistol, Power Sword, Shadow Field w/court Sslyth x2 Lhamaean Venom w/ 2x Splinter Cannons
Razorwing w/ 2 Dark Lance, Splinter Cannon, 2x monoscythe and 2x necrotoxin missiles
5 Scourges w/ 2x Haywire Blasters
3 Reavers w/ Blaster
4 Reavers w/ Heat Lance
Tau I might be a bit shakey on some details.
Darkstrider
10 Fire Warriors
10 Fire Warriors
5 Path Finders
5 Path Finders
5 Path Finders w/ 3x Rail Rifles
5 Path Finders w/ 3x Rail Rifles
Sunshark Bomber
6 Stealth Suits w/ 1x Fusion Blaster
6 Stealht Suits w/ 1x Fusion Blaster
Hammer Head Gunship w/ Ion Cannon
Hammer Head Gunship w/ Longstrike
Every unit that could took Black Sun Filters, and assorted goodies scattered around.
Since I played this game, I can tell you that he deployed a tank in each back corner of his deployment zone behind cover(still having good sight lines down the board), and castled his infantry together in a multi tiered ruin in the center close to his forward edge of his deployment zone. Stealth Suits infiltrated forward toward the center of the board into some craters.
I've only played my Dark Eldar twice, and am trying to get a handle on how to deploy them better. I'm keen to read your analysis. Thanks.
jy2 wrote:
If he goes 1st, then he will Scout up and hit you with a very nasty alpha-strike. If he doesn't, he may still deploy his units due to your lack of a very strong alpha-strike yourself. Usually, White Scars BC don't normally Outflank unless 1) you have a very strong alpha-strike or 2) you have a very nasty deathstar. Your deathstar is good, but it isn't TWC-good. He'll survive.
I have servo skulls in the list, but thanks for the input!
Sorry I missed that.
That makes it easier for you. Going 2nd gives you a slight advantage with regards to the Eternal War mission. Just deploy out of his threat range and he'll lose one turn of Grav-shooting. The rest of the tactics remain the same. The faster you can de-mech him, the better your chances are for a victory.
I got to test the match last night. The game was suprisingly easy for superfriends, with 4 mobile multi melta and 16 str 8 tank hunter/str5 barrage it was pretty easy taking out the hunters eye unit. Next turn more transports died to shooting and i spread my sammy star out for multi assaults. This was against a strong opponent, we talked about the game afterwards and concluded it would be tough for gladius due to the massive amount of anti tank combined with the super durable deathstar. 3+/4+ feel no pains and 3++ invuls on pretty much the whole unit.
If i really needed a maelstrom objective i could pretty much clear it with prescience barrage and use the darkshroud or 3man bike units to grab them.
blackmage wrote: About this match
demon CAD LOC 3°lev. 1 exalted rew i greater rew impossible robe
(should switch for D thirster but unsure)
Kairos
2x11 horrors
chaos knight errat dirge caster mark of Korne
Chaos allied
Be'lakor
10 cuiltist
Orikan
D lord with voidblade
6+6+6 immortals
6+6 wraiths with wiph coils
7 lichguards shield+hyper sword
3+3 tomb guards nebuloscope
3 canoptek scarabs
canoptek spider
3 heavy destroyers
Scenario is pure maelstrom lost contact.
BTW, the Daemon list is illegal. You cannot take both the an Exalted Gift (Grimoire) and the Impossible Robes. Only 1 Relic per unit.
Tips/Tactics:
I'd go with Summoning here. Summon fast units like Flesh Hounds to try to tie up some of his more mobile units. Screamers and Plague Drones would also be good. In pure Maelstrom missions, you want mobility.
Go after his mobile units with Fateweaver. Shoot down his tomb blades. It looks like he is running the Canoptek Harvest. If so, gun down his spider when possible.
He's got 3 assault and hard-to-kill unit that's going to be a problem, the wraiths and the lychstar. What you need to do is to tarpit his wraiths. They are a bigger threat due to their mobility. The Knight can take care of the Lychstar.
Prediction:
Fortunately for you, it doesn't appear that your opponent is running the Necron Decurion, which means his guys are a little easier to kill. However, he has arguably better board control than your Daemons. Lychstar or wraiths will tie up your Knight for the entire game. You LoC can tie up a unit of wraiths for the entire game. However, in a battle between Be'lakor and the wraiths, the wraiths will eventually win out. Then with regards to the supporting units, his army has much better mobility than yours. If you can Summon successfully, you can even out this discrepancy. Otherwise, he's got you on the mobility advantage as well. Better board control and better mobility, I'm going to give this battle to the Necrons unless you do better than normal with your summoning attempts.
Elric Greywolf wrote: Alright jy, I'll give you one that was already played and we can see how accurately you predict the actual results 1850pts
2015 ITC scenarios and FAQ
Side A:
GK Nemesis (Primary) PML3 Libby w/ DLD
5 man GKSS NDK with Teleport, Sword, Psycan, Incin
NDK with Teleport, Sword, Psycan, Psilen
Draigo
SM Allied Tiggy
5 man Marine with Melta and combiMelta in Pod
3 Cents with Grav (no other upgrades)
Hero's Path Formation PML2 Shadowseer w/ Mask
Death Jester
Solitare
I am going to assume you are playing GK+SM+Harlies (Side A).
I will also assume that when you say 4 gun Quad Mortar, you mean 1 Quad Mortar? Because the unit can only have 3 mortars max.
Tips/Tactics:
Honestly, I am not too familiar with the Hero's Path formation. I have, however, played against it once. To me, they are the X-factor in your list. Solitaire is a brute if he can get the charge off. With 3++ and I believe Eternal Warrior (?), he might actually survive to make it into combat.
Death Jester is potentially pretty nasty. I believe he forces the unit to take a Morale test at -2 if he causes an unsaved wound? That could help a lot against those Quad Mortars.
Other than being a psyker, I am not so sure what the Shadowseer brings. Perhaps some more Leadership shenanigans?
Due to his Skyhammer, you may be forced to reserve you dreadknights. I'm not sure how many gravcannons he's packing with his Sky-devastators, but if it's more than 1, then your Centstar and DK's are going to be in trouble.
I think the psychic power that you need to go for with Tiggy is Levitation. Otherwise, when you Gate, he's going to pound you with all of those Quad Mortars. Moreover, if you can Gate and somehow Levitate onto his Skyshield (assuming there is room), then it gives you some protection against his Grav.
Otherwise, go for Endurance. Lastly you can go for Divination for Perfect Timing/Forewarning. Forewarning will help you with Grav but it won't help you against the Quad Mortars.
While I would normally prefer to go 2nd in ITC objectives missions, in this game, I would probably choose to go 1st if possible. You want to get up your defensive buffs and your alpha-strike can really hurt your opponent's army as well.
Lastly, kill off his support units whenever possible. That means the Skyhammer units. The Quad Mortars, while dangerous, are static units that will most likely just sit on top of the Skyshield on top of 1 objective. At least you don't have to worry about them threatening the other objectives. If you kill off his support units, he will only control 1 objective while you control all of the other objectives.
Prediction:
I think that this is going to be a hard matchup for the Centstar. Your opponent has a lot of firepower and his alpha-strike (or beta-strike should you decide to reserve your star) can really hurt you. On the other hand, you play the objectives better with your superior mobility and your alpha-strike has the potential to hurt your opponent's army as well. If you get luck and get some good defensive powers, your Centstar can actually survive his grav as well. I am going to say that GK's+SM+Harlies take this game, but only by a hair.
jy2 wrote:
If he goes 1st, then he will Scout up and hit you with a very nasty alpha-strike. If he doesn't, he may still deploy his units due to your lack of a very strong alpha-strike yourself. Usually, White Scars BC don't normally Outflank unless 1) you have a very strong alpha-strike or 2) you have a very nasty deathstar. Your deathstar is good, but it isn't TWC-good. He'll survive.
I have servo skulls in the list, but thanks for the input!
Sorry I missed that.
That makes it easier for you. Going 2nd gives you a slight advantage with regards to the Eternal War mission. Just deploy out of his threat range and he'll lose one turn of Grav-shooting. The rest of the tactics remain the same. The faster you can de-mech him, the better your chances are for a victory.
I got to test the match last night. The game was suprisingly easy for superfriends, with 4 mobile multi melta and 16 str 8 tank hunter/str5 barrage it was pretty easy taking out the hunters eye unit. Next turn more transports died to shooting and i spread my sammy star out for multi assaults. This was against a strong opponent, we talked about the game afterwards and concluded it would be tough for gladius due to the massive amount of anti tank combined with the super durable deathstar. 3+/4+ feel no pains and 3++ invuls on pretty much the whole unit.
If i really needed a maelstrom objective i could pretty much clear it with prescience barrage and use the darkshroud or 3man bike units to grab them.
Excellent! Thanks for sharing.
I wasn't very familiar with Quad Mortars before, but now, I'm beginning to see how good they really are. Might have to toss 1 or 2 into my Marine list.
Elric Greywolf wrote: Alright jy, I'll give you one that was already played and we can see how accurately you predict the actual results 1850pts 2015 ITC scenarios and FAQ
Spoiler:
Side A: GK Nemesis (Primary) PML3 Libby w/ DLD 5 man GKSS NDK with Teleport, Sword, Psycan, Incin NDK with Teleport, Sword, Psycan, Psilen Draigo SM Allied Tiggy 5 man Marine with Melta and combiMelta in Pod 3 Cents with Grav (no other upgrades) Hero's Path Formation PML2 Shadowseer w/ Mask Death Jester Solitare
I am going to assume you are playing GK+SM+Harlies (Side A).
I will also assume that when you say 4 gun Quad Mortar, you mean 1 Quad Mortar? Because the unit can only have 3 mortars max.
Tips/Tactics:
Honestly, I am not too familiar with the Hero's Path formation. I have, however, played against it once. To me, they are the X-factor in your list. Solitaire is a brute if he can get the charge off. With 3++ and I believe Eternal Warrior (?), he might actually survive to make it into combat.
Death Jester is potentially pretty nasty. I believe he forces the unit to take a Morale test at -2 if he causes an unsaved wound? That could help a lot against those Quad Mortars.
Other than being a psyker, I am not so sure what the Shadowseer brings. Perhaps some more Leadership shenanigans?
Due to his Skyhammer, you may be forced to reserve you dreadknights. I'm not sure how many gravcannons he's packing with his Sky-devastators, but if it's more than 1, then your Centstar and DK's are going to be in trouble.
I think the psychic power that you need to go for with Tiggy is Levitation. Otherwise, when you Gate, he's going to pound you with all of those Quad Mortars. Moreover, if you can Gate and somehow Levitate onto his Skyshield (assuming there is room), then it gives you some protection against his Grav.
Otherwise, go for Endurance. Lastly you can go for Divination for Perfect Timing/Forewarning. Forewarning will help you with Grav but it won't help you against the Quad Mortars.
While I would normally prefer to go 2nd in ITC objectives missions, in this game, I would probably choose to go 1st if possible. You want to get up your defensive buffs and your alpha-strike can really hurt your opponent's army as well.
Lastly, kill off his support units whenever possible. That means the Skyhammer units. The Quad Mortars, while dangerous, are static units that will most likely just sit on top of the Skyshield on top of 1 objective. At least you don't have to worry about them threatening the other objectives. If you kill off his support units, he will only control 1 objective while you control all of the other objectives.
Prediction:
I think that this is going to be a hard matchup for the Centstar. Your opponent has a lot of firepower and his alpha-strike (or beta-strike should you decide to reserve your star) can really hurt you. On the other hand, you play the objectives better with your superior mobility and your alpha-strike has the potential to hurt your opponent's army as well. If you get luck and get some good defensive powers, your Centstar can actually survive his grav as well. I am going to say that GK's+SM+Harlies take this game, but only by a hair.
Well, thanks for that, it was fun to read
I did have a typo in my opponent's list. He had a total of TWELVE quad mortar guns, 4 units of 3 guns each. Three of the units fit onto the Skyshield, and the fourth White Scars unit was on another objective. I rolled to go first and placed everything on the table, but he seized! Ouch. And ofc the Skyhammer came in T1. He got around 80 hits on my Centstar from the mortars T1, which was a bit bunched up to be out of LoS at least against the mortars. Great saves and bad wounds resulted in two Cents dying. Draigo took two wounds, and Tiggy took one as well. The Grav skyhammer (with 4-5 grav cannons) killed a NDK. The melta skyhammer didn't do anything, fortunately for me.
I won't give the full report, but I will give some highlights. The Solitare whittled away the White Scars unit and eventually killed all of them, including the CM. Draigo killed 5 units by himself over the course of the game: the grav unit, the melta unit, a scout unit, and both assault marine units. (Yes, he did in the entire Skyhammer, not counting pods.) The surviving NDK, supported by all the Power Armour, cleaned up the mortars. The Shadowseer and DJ haven't been very useful in any of the games I've played. The Shadowseer's mask has a -2Ld bubble, and I had thought that, with Psychic Shriek and the DJ's gun, would really hurt a lot of units, but that hasn't seemed to be the case most of the time. (Maybe I just need to fight some Tau or Eldar with them, which I haven't.)
It WAS a close game models-wise, with each of us having less than 3 models on the board at game end. However, I got a massive victory, getting full points -1 (didn't get First Blood) to his...2 points, I think?
I did have a typo in my opponent's list. He had a total of TWELVE quad mortar guns, 4 units of 3 guns each. Three of the units fit onto the Skyshield, and the fourth White Scars unit was on another objective.
I rolled to go first and placed everything on the table, but he seized! Ouch. And ofc the Skyhammer came in T1.
He got around 80 hits on my Centstar from the mortars T1, which was a bit bunched up to be out of LoS at least against the mortars. Great saves and bad wounds resulted in two Cents dying. Draigo took two wounds, and Tiggy took one as well.
The Grav skyhammer (with 4-5 grav cannons) killed a NDK. The melta skyhammer didn't do anything, fortunately for me.
I won't give the full report, but I will give some highlights. The Solitare whittled away the White Scars unit and eventually killed all of them, including the CM. Draigo killed 5 units by himself over the course of the game: the grav unit, the melta unit, a scout unit, and both assault marine units. (Yes, he did in the entire Skyhammer, not counting pods.) The surviving NDK, supported by all the Power Armour, cleaned up the mortars.
The Shadowseer and DJ haven't been very useful in any of the games I've played. The Shadowseer's mask has a -2Ld bubble, and I had thought that, with Psychic Shriek and the DJ's gun, would really hurt a lot of units, but that hasn't seemed to be the case most of the time. (Maybe I just need to fight some Tau or Eldar with them, which I haven't.)
It WAS a close game models-wise, with each of us having less than 3 models on the board at game end. However, I got a massive victory, getting full points -1 (didn't get First Blood) to his...2 points, I think?
Yeah, that makes more sense with the mortars.
Seizing hurts, but fortunately for you, you managed to survive it. Though the score wasn't that close, the game was as I expected, very bloody and not a lot left on either sides afterwards.
Thanks for sharing.
cranect wrote: Alright I've got another. It was already played but we shall see if you think the result was a fluke.
I think it was 1850 but may have been 2000 points
Just maelstrom since it was a pick up game. We got the one where you need to hold objectives to draw more cards
My army Militarum tempestus
Airborne assault formation
2 valks with multi rocket pods and two with the hellstruke missiles
Command squad with 4 plasma guns
3 5 man squads with 2 meltas
Bare commissar
Ground assault formation
4 tauroxes with ML and autocannon. I think some had camo netting as well.
Command squad with 4 flamers
3 5 man squads with 2 hotshot volleyguns each
Bare commissar
Culexus assassin
His list
Infernal tetrad with one of each god
Belakor
A unit of nurglings (the swarm guys)
A unit of plaguebearers
Oh yes and I chose to go second and had the tauroxes on the table turn one deployed away from 3 of his 5 flying demons.
As you guys have already played this game, I will just go with an analysis and my prediction for your game.
Prediction:
He's going to have trouble against your flyers in this game. The Tetrad can't reliably deal with flyers other than to shoot them in the rear, but the Tetrad also does not have a lot of shooting.
On the other hand, the Daemon player isn't going to care too much for all of your AP1/2/3 shooting. He's going to have 2+ jink cover against them if his FMC's are near Be'lakor. You're not going to be able to hurt his FMC's very well.
The Culexus on foot can easily be ignored and that's what he'll probably do for most of the game. Hope you had him (Culexus) on an objective throughout the game. You should be able to score with him almost every time.
The problem here is that the Daemon list does not do Maelstrom objectives very well. It doesn't have a great ground presence and he has to keep most of his Daemons close together. If you spread out, you can potentially win the Maelstrom objectives without actually killing very much of his army.
Now he can resort to Summoning, but I don't expect him to Summon all that much. In a Tetrad list, most of the Warp Dice will be spent on buffing up his DP's and he actually does not have a whole lot of warp dice in the first place. His army might have done better had he gone with 2x11 Pink Horrors instead to give himself more Warp Dice.
Lastly, you've got a lot more ObSec here than your opponent.
I'm going to say that your Astra Militarum takes this one.
shadowfinder wrote: I have a list I like you to compare vs your White scar bike list in the first post.
Your List copied from their.
Points: 1850
Missions: New ITC
My list. I will be rolling on the Santic or Biomance powers will depend on who I am facing. Will be using the drop pod for wolfen with the 3 storm shields turn one.
+++ Wolf Pounce (1850pts) +++
Spoiler:
++ Space Wolves: Codex (2014) (SW Company of the Great Wolf Detachment) ++
Would love to see how this list woud far vs your Tyranids.. But I play Tyranids so I pretty sure how that game would go. I haven't played you since TSHFT in WA a couple years ago where I got lucky and Beat your Necrons with my Tyranids round 1. I am still playing Tyranids but thought I would try out Assault Space wolves for a change.
So I will stick to the 2 armies you posted above. Yeah, the new Space Wolves are really mean. It is one of the better board control armies currently and with all the 3++ storm shields in your army, you can pretty much survive all of his Grav.
Tips/Tactics:
There's really not much tactics involved in this game. For your army, it's just charge forwards and multi-assault if possible. Your opponent needs to Scout up in order to alpha-strike you (assuming he is going 1st). You should be able to easily survive his alpha-strike and then next turn, he's going to lose a lot of vehicles to your multi-assault. If you go 1st, you might actually make the charge on T1! Worst-case scenario is that he don't, he gets 1 turn of shooting and then next turn, you multi-assault.
Prediction:
Aside from you rolling poorly on your saves, I don't see you losing this matchup. Best-case scenario, you get the 1st turn charge, wreck a few transports and by Turn 3, he will concede if he hasn't already done so on T2. Worst case scenario, you lose your star maybe on T3, but by that time, the Wulfen and your backup TWC unit is in his "zone" and killing his units as well. Barring poor saves on your part, I see this as a very uphill battle for your Battle Company opponent. For him to have a chance, he's going to have to give up board control and to resort to deployment "tricks" like Outflanking. Otherwise, his army is just going to get eaten up by your very hungry wolves.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
SpookyRuben wrote: I've really been enjoying this thread. Fun and insightful. So I thought I'd throw in as well.
Mission: The Emperor's Will
Deployment: Hammer and Anvil
Dark Eldar Realspace Raiders vs Unbound Tau 1500pts. (Double blind pregame, so neither player knew what army he would face; although I suspect my opponent may have guessed that I might play my newly finished Dark Eldar LOL).
The table has plenty of ruins and some LOS blocking terrain. Good fire lanes down the flanks.
Dark Eldar
Spoiler:
Archon w/ Blast Pistol, Power Sword, Shadow Field w/court
Sslyth x2
Lhamaean
Venom w/ 2x Splinter Cannons
Razorwing w/ 2 Dark Lance, Splinter Cannon, 2x monoscythe and 2x necrotoxin missiles
5 Scourges w/ 2x Haywire Blasters
3 Reavers w/ Blaster
4 Reavers w/ Heat Lance
Tau I might be a bit shakey on some details.
Spoiler:
Darkstrider
10 Fire Warriors
10 Fire Warriors
5 Path Finders
5 Path Finders
5 Path Finders w/ 3x Rail Rifles
5 Path Finders w/ 3x Rail Rifles
Sunshark Bomber
6 Stealth Suits w/ 1x Fusion Blaster
6 Stealht Suits w/ 1x Fusion Blaster
Hammer Head Gunship w/ Ion Cannon
Hammer Head Gunship w/ Longstrike
Every unit that could took Black Sun Filters, and assorted goodies scattered around.
Since I played this game, I can tell you that he deployed a tank in each back corner of his deployment zone behind cover(still having good sight lines down the board), and castled his infantry together in a multi tiered ruin in the center close to his forward edge of his deployment zone. Stealth Suits infiltrated forward toward the center of the board into some craters.
I've only played my Dark Eldar twice, and am trying to get a handle on how to deploy them better. I'm keen to read your analysis. Thanks.
It's an interesting list that your Tau opponent runs. It's not the most competitive Tau list (far from it) but even still, it can give your glass boats some problems.
Tips/Tactics:
Target priority is paramount in this game. Take out the right units and you can easily win. Go after the wrong ones and your army is done for. Go after in this order:
1. Markerlights.
2. Stealth suits when they come in from reserves.
3. Any Tau infantry by his objective.
Don't worry too much about his 2 hammerheads. Just kill off all the infantry on his objective first. You can send your Reavers and Scourges after his hammerhands if you like, but your priority should be to clear off any unit by his objective. Then take out the stealth suits when they deepstrike in as they are the units that can truly threaten your objective.
Be careful not to get too close to his rapid-fire double-shot range. You out-range him. Don't get too close until his S5 shots is crippled.
You'd want to go first if possible.
Prediction:
DE takes this. His army isn't optimized and your shooting out-ranges his. If you can get the alpha-strike off against his army, your chances of winning is great (maybe 75%). If not, then I think your army will still be favored to win as long as your target priority is correct. If he goes first, I'd say your chances for a victory is about 55%.
I like the idea of this - keen to see what you think of this.
Points: 1500
Mission: Mission 4 from the pack linked below... Terrain is approx. 1/3 of the table coverage with a large LoS blocker in the middle of the table. 2 other LoS blockers (one in each deployment zone) plus 2 hills, 2 forests and a scatter of small walls around the table.
Objective #1: Eternal War: The Scouring – 6 Objectives (Modified Victory Points Each).
- Each player places 3 objectives, worth 1VP, 2VP and 3VP in secret (write down which is worth what). Before Seizing the
Initiative reveal the objective values to your opponent.
- In addition, at the end of the game, each player receives 1 Victory Point for each enemy Fast Attack unit that has been
completely destroyed. Units that are Falling Back at the end of the game, and units that are not on the board at the end
of the game, count as destroyed for the purposes of this mission.
Objective #2: Maelstrom of War: Tactical Escalation
- Each player generates or discards Tactical Objectives at the start of their turn to bring their number of Active Tactical
Objectives to current turn number, so 1 on Turn 1, 2 on Turn 2, etc.
Objective #3: Kill Points:
- At the end of the game each player counts the number of kill points they have achieved from their opponents force,
including units created during the game via mechanisms such as Conjuring, the Portaglyph, and others.
Secondary Objectives: Slay the Warlord, First Blood and Linebreaker.
Was not sure if you are still doing htis but I was wondering on your thoughts of this list VS White scars Gladius list with rinos and razor back spam.
My list.
Great wolf detachment
lvl 2 Libby on bike
Servitor
Servitor
3 drop pods
Lvl 1 Libby on bike
Servitor
Servitor
5x thunderwolves with 5 Storm shields, 2 Power Fist, 1 Wolf Claw
5x thunderwolves with 5 Storm shields, 2 Power Fist, 1 Wolf Claw
VSG with 3 shields.
Murderpack
Wulfen with 5 Thunder hammer and Storm Shield
Wulfen with 5 Thunder hammer and Storm Shield
Wulfen with 2 Thunder hammer and Storm Shield, 2 with great axe and auto gun, 1 Normal guy
shadowfinder wrote: Was not sure if you are still doing htis but I was wondering on your thoughts of this list VS White scars Gladius list with rinos and razor back spam.
My list.
Great wolf detachment
lvl 2 Libby on bike
Servitor
Servitor
3 drop pods
Lvl 1 Libby on bike
Servitor
Servitor
5x thunderwolves with 5 Storm shields, 2 Power Fist, 1 Wolf Claw
5x thunderwolves with 5 Storm shields, 2 Power Fist, 1 Wolf Claw
VSG with 3 shields.
Murderpack
Wulfen with 5 Thunder hammer and Storm Shield
Wulfen with 5 Thunder hammer and Storm Shield
Wulfen with 2 Thunder hammer and Storm Shield, 2 with great axe and auto gun, 1 Normal guy
Tips/Tactics:
I will assume ITC missions.
That is quite a scary Space Wolf army. Just a note, but I believe your SW unit has to be within 6" of a unit of Wulfen in order to benefit from its Curse of the Wulfen special rule. If your Wulfens are in drop pods, then that may be a little trickier to pull off. +3" to your Movement and then +3" to your Assault move may spell 1st Turn charge. Just something to think about.
Also, instead of 2x GW detachments, have you considered the Deathpack formation with Librarius Conclave? I think that may be a more deadly variation of your list.
In any case, you may want to start 1 unit of wulfens on the table to "buff" up your TWC's. If your opponent isn't suspecting, it could be really bad for him, especially if you can get the 1st turn charge with both of your TWC's. Also, if you attempt this tactic, join the Biker Rune Priests to the Wulfen instead. This way, your TWC won't lose their Fleet special rules.
Against Gladius BC, you would want to go first to try to minimize the amount of shooting your army has to take. This may put you at a disadvantage in regards to the Eternal War Primary objectives, but that is a tradeoff worth taking. Your army has the potential to try to table your opponent's army or to make him concede. That is your best chance for a victory. It also doesn't hurt to try to get First Blood/First Strike either because the game may boil down to the bonus Tertiary objectives.
However, if your opponent is going first, then leave your wulfen in the drop pods and deploy both units of TWC. Hide your TWC behind BLOS terrain if at all possible and let your opponent scout up.
Also, place your objectives near the center of the table just in case if your opponent decides to out-flank. Because if you go first, he just might do that rather than risk getting trapped by your army.
Lastly, keep in mind that Grav-cannons have limited range when moving. If the unit moves, its effective Grav threat range is 18". Take advantage of that knowledge.
Oh, one more thing. If your opponent opts to out-flank, you can really hurt him by lining up your TWC against 1 board edge (but only in DoW or Vanguard deployment). It's a gamble and tricky to do, but I'd like to see it just for the sheer LOL's of the tactic.
Prediction:
Your opponent will have the advantage in the Maelstrom objectives. Battle Company usually does. The Primary mission can go either ways depending on what it is. In this scenario, whoever goes 1st will have the advantage. So 1st Turn is 50/50. Primary mission is a 50/50. Maelstrom Secondary goes to Battle Company. Ordinarily, I would give Gladius Battle Company the win in this matchup, but I think your SW army does have the tools to pull off the upset here.
Deff Dread with
4 power klaws (6 attacks, 7 on the charge)
Versus
Hive Tyrant with
Lash Whip and Bonesword
Wings
I think the Deff Dread would win.
jy2--don't forget to do my matchup.
Yes, I predict the Deff Dread would take it.
MC's in this edition really aren't optimized to deal with walkers in Assault. Tyrant lets the Dread charge. He then eats 1.5HP due to Wall of Death Electrogrubs Overwatch (that's Haywire). Then the flyrant gets 1 Smash attack before most likely dying to 7 power klaw attacks on the charge. If the flyrant gets lucky and rolls a 6 on the Pen chart, then he wins. Otherwise, he loses.
Once again, I'd like to re-iterate the dangers of charging into a Tyrant with Electroshock Grubs. He could potentially do 3HP of damage and kill the Dread with Overwatch!
Here is my attempt at a competitive Renegades and Heretics list. I think my biggest threat would be against a White Scars Gladius. As fast mobile infantry has always given me more trouble than a death star or a few super heavies.
Heavy Support 292pt
Renegade Rapier Laser Destroyer Battery x3, extra crew, militia training
Renegade Rapier Laser Destroyer Battery x3, extra crew, militia training
Renegade Rapier Laser Destroyer Battery x3, extra crew, militia training
Renegade Wyvern
Deff Dread with
4 power klaws (6 attacks, 7 on the charge)
Versus
Hive Tyrant with
Lash Whip and Bonesword
Wings
I think the Deff Dread would win.
jy2--don't forget to do my matchup.
Yes, I predict the Deff Dread would take it.
MC's in this edition really aren't optimized to deal with walkers in Assault. Tyrant lets the Dread charge. He then eats 1.5HP due to Wall of Death Electrogrubs Overwatch (that's Haywire). Then the flyrant gets 1 Smash attack before most likely dying to 7 power klaw attacks on the charge. If the flyrant gets lucky and rolls a 6 on the Pen chart, then he wins. Otherwise, he loses.
Once again, I'd like to re-iterate the dangers of charging into a Tyrant with Electroshock Grubs. He could potentially do 3HP of damage and kill the Dread with Overwatch!
shadowfinder wrote: Was not sure if you are still doing htis but I was wondering on your thoughts of this list VS White scars Gladius list with rinos and razor back spam.
My list.
Great wolf detachment
lvl 2 Libby on bike
Servitor
Servitor
3 drop pods
Lvl 1 Libby on bike
Servitor
Servitor
5x thunderwolves with 5 Storm shields, 2 Power Fist, 1 Wolf Claw
5x thunderwolves with 5 Storm shields, 2 Power Fist, 1 Wolf Claw
VSG with 3 shields.
Murderpack
Wulfen with 5 Thunder hammer and Storm Shield
Wulfen with 5 Thunder hammer and Storm Shield
Wulfen with 2 Thunder hammer and Storm Shield, 2 with great axe and auto gun, 1 Normal guy
Tips/Tactics:
I will assume ITC missions.
That is quite a scary Space Wolf army. Just a note, but I believe your SW unit has to be within 6" of a unit of Wulfen in order to benefit from its Curse of the Wulfen special rule. If your Wulfens are in drop pods, then that may be a little trickier to pull off. +3" to your Movement and then +3" to your Assault move may spell 1st Turn charge. Just something to think about.
Also, instead of 2x GW detachments, have you considered the Deathpack formation with Librarius Conclave? I think that may be a more deadly variation of your list.
In any case, you may want to start 1 unit of wulfens on the table to "buff" up your TWC's. If your opponent isn't suspecting, it could be really bad for him, especially if you can get the 1st turn charge with both of your TWC's. Also, if you attempt this tactic, join the Biker Rune Priests to the Wulfen instead. This way, your TWC won't lose their Fleet special rules.
Against Gladius BC, you would want to go first to try to minimize the amount of shooting your army has to take. This may put you at a disadvantage in regards to the Eternal War Primary objectives, but that is a tradeoff worth taking. Your army has the potential to try to table your opponent's army or to make him concede. That is your best chance for a victory. It also doesn't hurt to try to get First Blood/First Strike either because the game may boil down to the bonus Tertiary objectives.
However, if your opponent is going first, then leave your wulfen in the drop pods and deploy both units of TWC. Hide your TWC behind BLOS terrain if at all possible and let your opponent scout up.
Also, place your objectives near the center of the table just in case if your opponent decides to out-flank. Because if you go first, he just might do that rather than risk getting trapped by your army.
Lastly, keep in mind that Grav-cannons have limited range when moving. If the unit moves, its effective Grav threat range is 18". Take advantage of that knowledge.
Oh, one more thing. If your opponent opts to out-flank, you can really hurt him by lining up your TWC against 1 board edge (but only in DoW or Vanguard deployment). It's a gamble and tricky to do, but I'd like to see it just for the sheer LOL's of the tactic.
Prediction:
Your opponent will have the advantage in the Maelstrom objectives. Battle Company usually does. The Primary mission can go either ways depending on what it is. In this scenario, whoever goes 1st will have the advantage. So 1st Turn is 50/50. Primary mission is a 50/50. Maelstrom Secondary goes to Battle Company. Ordinarily, I would give Gladius Battle Company the win in this matchup, but I think your SW army does have the tools to pull off the upset here.
Thanks for thoughts on the list and usage.
I should have gave you a little more back ground on the unit usage. I drop pod the two thunder hammer Wulfen units Normally to try and box my opponent in. The other wulfen unit stays in my back field to handle anything that drops near by and give the Thunder wolves a chance to get 1st charge with double movement.
This give me a 30% chance to get the Double movement or 60% to get some type of extra movement. getting me closer to my opponent. If I don't get double movement i make sure someone in the thunder wolves are in range of the VSG. it is cheesy but effective for now.
If the VSG gets nerfed as the GWFAQ suggest then I may drop it and add one more wulfen unit to give me a 50% chance of double movement for the thunder wolves. I would also be running the Deathpack to as it's charge range is can reach over 40+inches.
I have thought about the Conclave but to be honest I really hate it. it is really good. I decided to go Pure Space wolves for now. The mix of Wulfen, which are really scary good, and thunder wolves moving so fast with no powers is fun. I been running Two thunder wolf units because I have found one gets tied down if it doesn't have hit and run. But with two units running at them it is very hard to tie up both of them and the two wulfen units by turn 2.
As for the gladis I need to be in their face turn 1 making their targeting options an issues with the wulfen and thunder wolves saying hi..
I mean really who do you shoot all 4 of the units do massive damage the turn they charge.. But I do Like giving my opponent choices.
Excellent idea of a thread . Well done for the effort and also taking the time to write an analysis that helps inexperienced players like me.
I am tempted to give you my next match up lists .
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