I'm personally of the mind that if the end times came, the tau would, realistically, be very much probably wiped out, though I suspect their sales numbers might prompt GW to give an explanation as to why they somehow avoided annihilation. Now, this isn't a thread about if 40k will get AOSed, but I'm simply trying to ask what do you think would happen to the little corner of the galaxy that tau have carved out for themselves, and what would happen with them after the end times if they survive?

Orks kill them.

They wouldn't survive.... maybe become the first accepted xenos in the imperium? As slaves though.....

I don't know much about the fluff, but I think I read somewhere that the ethereal might have been created by the eldar.
If that's the case, I could see the eldar reveal that they indeed created the ethereal. Say that they did it for the greater good, and that the true greater good is to join them in the battle during the end times.

The tau are all about following an ideal. If you steer that ideal towards a new direction (which could be done in many ways fluff wise), the tau will follow.
They could also come to the conclusion that fighting chaos alongside the IoM or whatever would be the only way to protect the empire, and would therefore be for the greater good.
So basically, I see them as forming an alliance with a bigger faction.

They'd be wiped out by one faction or the other. Eldar absolutely pants them in FTL travel.

 Baldeagle91 wrote:
They wouldn't survive.... maybe become the first accepted xenos in the imperium? As slaves though.....

I'm very much under the impression that if 40k got AOSed they'd find a reason not to kill off tau, even if it would be a stretch to pull off in the lore.

The Tau wouldnt stand a chance if any of the big powers out any real strength against them. The Tau Empire was able to fight a couple dozen IG regiments with a few SM chapter elements in support, and eventually held them, but could not push them out. Given that there are *billions* of IG regiments, the Tau wouldnt stand a chance, they'd be roadkill against a real Imperial force, a large Waaaagh or a primary Tyranid invasion tendril. What has saved them thus far is being just too small and out of the way for anyone to care about.


In a general "End Times" scenario they'd likely just end up collateral damage of wars they dont have the faintest clue about.

Maybe they'll be overlooked and they keep doing what they do? If they're so small, why would bigger forces care about them?

I don't think End Times would or will happen in 40k. It's too big.

I don’t see anything big happening to them. They are after all, small fry in a big pond.

If GW wants to include them in the action, I’d guess at them being a catspaw to the Eldar, who toss them at some foe, probably nids/chaos.

The problem with Tau is that they just work on such a different scale then the rest of the factions. They might be kings of their own little corner, but that’s it.

The Tau will win, that is as grimdark as it can get. The galaxy becomes NobleBright verse and then the chaos gods, the emperor, the ctan, and all the deity level beings will die with the universe so happy and at peace. So they all work to make a new universe.

The Tau manage to science their way out of being destroyed because you know they all go and get degrees while every other warp user is basically an uneducated poetry writer.

Thus the new universe is born of NobleBright where the Tau are the most grimdark thing there is left all the deities and gods having failed to realize GW doesn't accept digital feedback. They only accept postal service. So their version of the new GrimDark gets scrapped because it never arrived.

All the 40k fans who can't survive without all GrimDark 25/7 retire to go play Overwatch as Reaper. Oddly enough he's the perfect age for the fans of the universe.

About the only way a small empire like that could survive the coming storm is the same way they escaped the notice of the Imperium long enough to develop their current technology:

A massive warp storm created by the 13th (14th?) Black Crusade engulfs the Tau Empire, thus shielding them from the slaughter outside. Due to the more fluid nature of time in warp, when the storm is over, the Tau emerge even more advanced than before.

Depends on how they are getting AOSed

If Chaos.. maybe just maybe they will be ignored.

If Orks or Nids they will get 100% curb stomped.

 Desubot wrote:
Depends on how they are getting AOSed

If Chaos.. maybe just maybe they will be ignored.

If Orks or Nids they will get 100% curb stomped.

Except we destroyed a hive fleet. It was curb stomp. We made a virus that destroyed them. Hardly lost any resources doing it too and that was Farsight and his band of merry men. Not even the full Tau Empire. I keep saying this but people got to respect the Tau science.

 Gamgee wrote:
The Tau will win, that is as grimdark as it can get. The galaxy becomes NobleBright verse and then the chaos gods, the emperor, the ctan, and all the deity level beings will die with the universe so happy and at peace. So they all work to make a new universe.

The Tau manage to science their way out of being destroyed because you know they all go and get degrees while every other warp user is basically an uneducated poetry writer.

Thus the new universe is born of NobleBright where the Tau are the most grimdark thing there is left all the deities and gods having failed to realize GW doesn't accept digital feedback. They only accept postal service. So their version of the new GrimDark gets scrapped because it never arrived.

All the 40k fans who can't survive without all GrimDark 25/7 retire to go play Overwatch as Reaper. Oddly enough he's the perfect age for the fans of the universe.

But Ultramarines are the Mary Sue of 40k. Sure.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
The Tau will win, that is as grimdark as it can get. The galaxy becomes NobleBright verse and then the chaos gods, the emperor, the ctan, and all the deity level beings will die with the universe so happy and at peace. So they all work to make a new universe.

The Tau manage to science their way out of being destroyed because you know they all go and get degrees while every other warp user is basically an uneducated poetry writer.

Thus the new universe is born of NobleBright where the Tau are the most grimdark thing there is left all the deities and gods having failed to realize GW doesn't accept digital feedback. They only accept postal service. So their version of the new GrimDark gets scrapped because it never arrived.

All the 40k fans who can't survive without all GrimDark 25/7 retire to go play Overwatch as Reaper. Oddly enough he's the perfect age for the fans of the universe.

But Ultramarines are the Mary Sue of 40k. Sure.

What happens when an immovable the race of blue mary stu meets the other blue unstoppable mary sue's? Hahah.

 Gamgee wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Depends on how they are getting AOSed

If Chaos.. maybe just maybe they will be ignored.

If Orks or Nids they will get 100% curb stomped.

Except we destroyed a hive fleet. It was curb stomp. We made a virus that destroyed them. Hardly lost any resources doing it too and that was Farsight and his band of merry men. Not even the full Tau Empire. I keep saying this but people got to respect the Tau science.

Spoiler:

What a full hive fleet or a scout tendril. also source.

 Gamgee wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Depends on how they are getting AOSed

If Chaos.. maybe just maybe they will be ignored.

If Orks or Nids they will get 100% curb stomped.

Except we destroyed a hive fleet. It was curb stomp. We made a virus that destroyed them. Hardly lost any resources doing it too and that was Farsight and his band of merry men. Not even the full Tau Empire. I keep saying this but people got to respect the Tau science.

Spoiler:

Hive Fleet Gorgon? AFAIK, that was because the Imperium bailed the Tau out, or the suicidal bravery of the Tau commander. Not because of a biological plague.

If such a plague existed, it would not work again, as the Tyranids would adapt to it, and possibly even create it themselves.

 Desubot wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Depends on how they are getting AOSed

If Chaos.. maybe just maybe they will be ignored.

If Orks or Nids they will get 100% curb stomped.

Except we destroyed a hive fleet. It was curb stomp. We made a virus that destroyed them. Hardly lost any resources doing it too and that was Farsight and his band of merry men. Not even the full Tau Empire. I keep saying this but people got to respect the Tau science.

Spoiler:

What a full hive fleet or a scout tendril. also source.

Farsight Enclaves supplement. Splinter fleet, but vast. No small scouting fleet though. Actually they destroyed the Tyranid hive fleet so thoroughly nothing was left to adapt to. It's gone completely.

Mmmmm i have that book at home. will check out.

Ultimately though as much as you can hand wave all the grim dark writing, in a AOS situation it will probably be a LOT more grave than just 1 splinter fleet.

and just saying the Tau can Science something up to win is a bit of a cop out it self.

 Desubot wrote:
Mmmmm i have that book at home. will check out.

Ultimately though as much as you can hand wave all the grim dark writing, in a AOS situation it will probably be a LOT more grave than just 1 splinter fleet.

and just saying the Tau can Science something up to win is a bit of a cop out it self.

If other factions can hand wavium stuff with warp we can mind wavium stuff with science.

 Gamgee wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Mmmmm i have that book at home. will check out.

Ultimately though as much as you can hand wave all the grim dark writing, in a AOS situation it will probably be a LOT more grave than just 1 splinter fleet.

and just saying the Tau can Science something up to win is a bit of a cop out it self.

If other factions can hand wavium stuff with warp we can mind wavium stuff with science.

Two wrong dont make a right.

 Desubot wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Mmmmm i have that book at home. will check out.

Ultimately though as much as you can hand wave all the grim dark writing, in a AOS situation it will probably be a LOT more grave than just 1 splinter fleet.

and just saying the Tau can Science something up to win is a bit of a cop out it self.

If other factions can hand wavium stuff with warp we can mind wavium stuff with science.

Two wrong dont make a right.

That's not the point. This topic isn't to discuss the qualities of GW writing it's to discuss the Tau in end times. I simply brought up some lore some people might not know about. It's quality is not the point.

From a fluff perspective, the Tau would be wiped out short of some serious deus ex machina.

Realistically though? Fluff won't actually be as important as marketing. Tau are big sellers. If GW used AoSing the 40k franchise to clean house and remove a few things I would fully expect them to squat under-performing factions (not that I would personally want any faction removed). SoB would be a likely candidate, maybe even DE.

If I had to make a prediction, Tau will be left pretty much untouched by the end times, leaving them to expand and develop technology. They invent some more powerful weapons, ships and general military tech but more importantly a superior form of FTL they always lacked and in a strange twist use it to show up near the EoT to side with the forces of order (presumably IoM and Eldar) and help turn the tables in the "goodish" guys favour.

Mars just opens up the vault, bombs everyone into nothingness on the whims of the Omnissiah, thus the Age of the Emperor is born.

But really, I expect them to team up with the Ultramarines/Imperial Guard/Eldar in the area, and Team Blue + Elves curbstomps whatever Tyranid/Chaos invasion that comes their way.

If it is a Chaos end times that causes the universe to break, I expect Lorgar and Angron to come over and bitch smack all of them into submission.

Warp storms close over the Ultima Segmentum, isolating Ultramar and the Tau Empire, preventing the Ultramarines from aiding the Imperium in its final time of need, and protecting the Tau Empire from destruction at the hands of Hive Fleet Abhoth, the new hive fleet hitting the galaxy from above the galactic plane.
Two hundred years pass, as the 13th Black Crusade smashes through Imperial space, destroying countless Space Marine chapters, and the battle in the Octarius sector begins to reach critical mass. An Ork WAAAAGH larger than any seen before surges into the Black Crusade's path, the Orks within larger than any other Orks on record, and wielding incredibly destructive weapons.
Exactly 210 years after the warp storms first appeared and isolated the Ultima Segmentum, a strange calm corridor appears. Tau ships, of a type unheard of before, begin colonizing new worlds and beating back the elements of the 13th Black Crusade on the Eastern side of the galaxy. Ultramar is unshrouded, as well, but they are not unaltered. New marks of power armor utilizing traded Tau technology, railgun-armed Predators, and advanced electronic systems are all seen as the Ultramarines join the fight, bolstered by the limited trade they made with the Tau.
Of course, the temporary peace between Ultramar and the Tau empire cannot remain long, and the galaxy is beginning to notice the new power for the first time. After all, in the grim darkness of the far future... there is only war.

Or maybe just they would get handwaved as escaping into some pocket dimension or another.

 Verviedi wrote:
Warp storms close over the Ultima Segmentum, isolating Ultramar and the Tau Empire, preventing the Ultramarines from aiding the Imperium in its final time of need, and protecting the Tau Empire from destruction at the hands of Hive Fleet Abhoth, the new hive fleet hitting the galaxy from above the galactic plane.
Two hundred years pass, as the 13th Black Crusade smashes through Imperial space, destroying countless Space Marine chapters, and the battle in the Octarius sector begins to reach critical mass. An Ork WAAAAGH larger than any seen before surges into the Black Crusade's path, the Orks within larger than any other Orks on record, and wielding incredibly destructive weapons.
Exactly 210 years after the warp storms first appeared and isolated the Ultima Segmentum, a strange calm corridor appears. Tau ships, of a type unheard of before, begin colonizing new worlds and beating back the elements of the 13th Black Crusade on the Eastern side of the galaxy. Ultramar is unshrouded, as well, but they are not unaltered. New marks of power armor utilizing traded Tau technology, railgun-armed Predators, and advanced electronic systems are all seen as the Ultramarines join the fight, bolstered by the limited trade they made with the Tau.
Of course, the temporary peace between Ultramar and the Tau empire cannot remain long, and the galaxy is beginning to notice the new power for the first time. After all, in the grim darkness of the far future... there is only war.

Or maybe just they would get handwaved as escaping into some pocket dimension or another.

Hell to the fething yes! Or maybe the Ultramarines get corrupted for the first time by a reasonable Empire. Maybe they think there is a path forward for mankind with science and reason instead of superstition and sorcery. Perhaps after all that time some see a Humans and Tau coalition as better than the IoM and there is a schism. Space Marine Auxiliaries/Shock Force. Bolters with Tau plasma rounds. XV.UM power armor. It provides the same protection as regular power armor and integrates recharging energy weapons for indefinite field time, advanced heads up display with ML uplink, integrated jetpacks, and cloaking system. Space Marines armed with plasma bolters, lightsabers, and space marine sized pulse blasters. The Space Marines/Humans who leave the IoM are allowed to rule themselves semi-autonomously and even have dignitaries reporting directly to the Ethereals (if they even exist in future Tau fluff).

The Tau would gain access to gravity weapon and improve upon them as well as some of the more high end Imperial technology. More importantly it would revolutionize the Tau fleet. You would have their agility with the brute firepower and staying power of the IoM ships.

Edit
Every Imperial Guardsman will have a Pulse Rifle in their hands by the end of the year! I could make that my whole election game plan and get in. Vote Gamgee now for super sweet hybrid tech. As a bonus we anger both traditional Tau fans and IoM fans. Join the coalition today! Upgrading all the Imperial Titans under our control to have the barrier shield system so highly resistant to D Shots and making them gargantuans instead of super heavy.

Nah, I think Cassius, Tigurius, Calgar, Sicarius, and Agemman would all consider a one time team up with the Tyranids before they would join the Tau Empire.

I think they would be willing to work with them, maybe help them find their own Psykers (since all that warp energy flying around could cause the Tau to produce their own) for the good of both of them, but would never join up.

Actually, I could kind of see that working - a alliance of convenience during the Warp Storm, where the Ultramarines find and eliminate dangerous psykers, help the Tau fend off Daemons, while the Tau give (not top of the line, of course, your current ally can still be a future enemy) technologies to assist the Ultramarines.

...Or even better, the Farsight Enclaves team up with the Ultramarines, since the Enclaves don't represent the dangerous expansionist Tau Empire, and are the actual badasses that have come out of it. The Ultramarines help Farsight take control of the Empire, and the two afterwards have an uneasy truce while they deal with the bigger threats together.

I think it would be cool if some space marines did decide to join the Tau. It might not be a whole chapter, but maybe a few dozen from each chapter until there is a very large force within the Tau. It would also be yet another grimdrark by showing that yes space marines can be corrupted by chaos, but so too can Xenos ideology get to at least some.

Tau gets new cool gak. Space Marine fans definitely get some cool new gak a bit with a Tau slant.

If it's just a light team up I can see giving them some cheap stuff but they would also want something out of the deal and most of the basic IoM gear is kinda crappy compared to Tau standards.

If they are shown how to control their own psykers, I imagine that is more than a fair trade.

And there is a huge difference between the insidious whispers of Chaos and consciously joining the enemy without. Especially for the mental conditioned warrior monks that are space marines.

If other factions can hand wavium stuff with warp we can mind wavium stuff with science.

To be fair, both the Necrons and the Adeptus Mechanicus have also done just as silly handwaves with the Awesome Power of Science (TM). The Celestial Orrerry is one of the most ridiculous ones I can think of.

And the "tailor a virus to wipe out a splinter fleet" is something the Imperium of Man has managed as well - during the battle for Tarsis Ultra (Warriors of Ultramar) by a Magos of the Adeptus Mechanicus. It's just that any bioweapon tailored enough to a splinter fleet to not be adaptable to by that fleet, apparently doesn't work on another.

One thing to bear in mind about the Tau - Tau science is better than 'common' Imperial science (from most, but not all, perspectives), but 'high end' Imperial science is still "Physics can go **** itself" - there are relatively few mechanicus archmagi who understand the stuff, but there have been a few of them, across a lot of forge worlds, for a very, very long time. The latest Imperial Armour book is a case in point - the Tau decide to 'test out' their latest creations in a surprise assault on a minor forge world. It does not end well.

 Gamgee wrote:

Farsight Enclaves supplement. Splinter fleet, but vast. No small scouting fleet though. Actually they destroyed the Tyranid hive fleet so thoroughly nothing was left to adapt to. It's gone completely.

Hive mind isn't gone though...

Jeez, I didn't even consider the new Admech Imperial Armour is going to have Ordinatus in it.

Yeah, the Tau are boned.

locarno24 wrote:
The latest Imperial Armour book is a case in point - the Tau decide to 'test out' their latest creations in a surprise assault on a minor forge world. It does not end well.

That Imperial Armour isn't released yet. How do you know the results of it, if you don't mind my asking? Besides, Imperial Armour campaigns never end well. There's always a lot of back and forth, a few surprises and the winner's victory is almost always terribly costly.

If the end of times had to fall upon WH40K, I think the Taus' days would be numered. That's a very small empire and by now, it's only survived because nobody's paid attention to them. So I see very well orks wiping them, as a first Waaagh has already obtained several victories.

Ohterwise, if Chaos succeeded in his 13th Dark Crusade, they'd just be annihilated by Abaddon as well.

Third solution, if the nids are to have the galaxy bending, then they'll act as meatshield for the Imperium who'd let them desesperatly strive to save their little empire while rounding up his armies.

The fact that no one fields anything close to as good as the troopers from the novel Starship Troopers is the only reason the Tyranids are a thing. Y-rack tac nukes for the win!

Crushed by an Imperial Crusade.

 Generalstoner wrote:
Crushed by an Imperial Crusade.

I wouldn't trust the Imperium to crush an apple. They so stupid. It's frankly embarrassing to play an Imperial faction.

Martel732 wrote:

 Generalstoner wrote:
Crushed by an Imperial Crusade.

I wouldn't trust the Imperium to crush an apple. They so stupid. It's frankly embarrassing to play an Imperial faction.

My favorite part was 'they so stupid' when calling out the faction for being stupid... :p

That was intentional, chief.

The Blood Angels should clearly swoop Ina mad show everyone on the Easetern Fringe how it's done, and kill off the Tau. Dante will solo a trio of Stormsurges, while Mephiston puts a pair of Titan knock off so to a headlock.

At the same time.

Edit: while at the same time finding a way to make Blood Angels worse on the table top, of course.

Emperor dies and resurrects at the head of the tau, (discovering that he was the one who made the ethereal's talk to the tau) in another attempt by the emperor to bring a scientifically based peace to the galaxy. Most space marine factions join him after the surviving primarchs come back to lead them back to the emperor. All other IoM factions are split, some joining tau, some fighting for independence but only finding death, some joining the forces of Chaos. (reducing space marine factions and IoM factions in the game) Combined Tau and IoM deal with massize Tyranid invasion (surviving the main invasion but continued hive fleet invasions still happening). Orks raise a massize Waaaagh led by a new leader and attempt to destroy Chaos and anyone who gets in there way. Chaos triples their converts after the emperor moves to Tau, and engage in pitched battle against the massive Ork waaaagh.

Well, thats roughly what i'd like to happen, you never know lol.

 chalkobob wrote:

That Imperial Armour isn't released yet. How do you know the results of it, if you don't mind my asking? Besides, Imperial Armour campaigns never end well. There's always a lot of back and forth, a few surprises and the winner's victory is almost always terribly costly.

Quite a few friends of mine were at the last Forgeworld do in Nottingham. Unlike 'GW Proper' they tend to be fairly happy to talk about near-term upcoming stuff as long as you're talking general terms about background not rules or release schedule

I wouldn't trust the Imperium to crush an apple. They so stupid. It's frankly embarrassing to play an Imperial faction.

Most of them aren't - they just often don't have a choice in their actions because having enough resources to handle every crisis at once is a luxury.

locarno24 wrote:


Quite a few friends of mine were at the last Forgeworld do in Nottingham. Unlike 'GW Proper' they tend to be fairly happy to talk about near-term upcoming stuff as long as you're talking general terms about background not rules or release schedule

Would you please give me specific detail of what type of questions were asked and what the specific answers were? I don't doubt you, but Imperial Armour campaigns are my favourite fluff pieces in the entire setting. Just curious.

Bear in mind this is 'third party' so I don't know the specific details and specific answers for the most part. Supposedly the background is a development of that big "Tau Versus Mechanicus" diorama in the Warhammer World galleries:



The Tau attack a mechanicus base to 'field test' their new heavy and superheavy units. This doesn't go as well as they hoped because the Mechanicus forge (which isn't huge but is a very old one) responds by digging out heresy-era automata and similar weapons to buy time to commit titan forces.

Also, whilst the Tau have encountered titans before (hence the development of the Ta'Unar), they've never met true battle titans (warlord class). The forge in question is apparently being used as a staging ground to try and retake Gryphonne (the one the orks overran), and with murphy's law apparently dictating the timing the Tau manage to launch their attack whilst there's the bulk of a titan order and its associated knight households on the planet that's just completed its refits and overhaul (a bridge too far, much?).

I don't know any more other than the phrase "does not end well" which you can probably figure out without further explanation.

I'm not sure what the Tau phrase for "what the **** is that and why is it moving?!?!?!?!?!!?" is, but I suspect it may be translated in the footnotes somewhere.

Depends upon the direction, from which the ET's would come. Tau could very well bunker up and soak up the damage from an opponent, who already exhausted itself, killing other factions.

Of course the Tau are Xenos, so in all probability they will go first, when GW decides to commit suicide and make the 40K End Times.

locarno24 wrote:
Bear in mind this is 'third party' so I don't know the specific details and specific answers for the most part. Supposedly the background is a development of that big "Tau Versus Mechanicus" diorama in the Warhammer World galleries:



The Tau attack a mechanicus base to 'field test' their new heavy and superheavy units. This doesn't go as well as they hoped because the Mechanicus forge (which isn't huge but is a very old one) responds by digging out heresy-era automata and similar weapons to buy time to commit titan forces.

Also, whilst the Tau have encountered titans before (hence the development of the Ta'Unar), they've never met true battle titans (warlord class). The forge in question is apparently being used as a staging ground to try and retake Gryphonne (the one the orks overran), and with murphy's law apparently dictating the timing the Tau manage to launch their attack whilst there's the bulk of a titan order and its associated knight households on the planet that's just completed its refits and overhaul (a bridge too far, much?).

I don't know any more other than the phrase "does not end well" which you can probably figure out without further explanation.

I'm not sure what the Tau phrase for "what the **** is that and why is it moving?!?!?!?!?!!?" is, but I suspect it may be translated in the footnotes somewhere.

Fair enough. To be honest I expected Tau to lose this one since they won Taros. Even so, like the Eldar in Doom of Mymeara, despite losing there was a silver lining (Phoenix lord in that case). Maybe the Tau will escape with some useful technology or some such.

It seems very out of character for the Tau not to recon the area first with stealth missions. Especially given the fact that they have sensor technology good enough to detect an Imperial Assassin. The people they send to knock out the rogue Arch Magos and other people who are thought impossible.

Edit
Calling it. Tau are going to develop a Warlord killer armor of their own. Next campaign book after this. Also a super heavy tank with titan scale weaponry to bolster their titan legions on the cheap.

 Gamgee wrote:



Calling it. Tau are going to develop a Warlord killer armor of their own. Next campaign book.

I don't think we will see another Imperial armour campaign book featuring Tau for a long while after this one assuming we get a 3rd at all. Considering this will be the 2nd Imperial Armour featuring Tau, which is more than most xenos can say. Unless of course you mean a basic 40k one like mont'ka or kauyon in which I don't see the main GW studio releasing a Tau Warlord equivalent for those.

They still have to remake Kastrel Novem, Badab, maybe another Necron book, their Horus Heresy stuff, and I'm sure I forgot some stuff!

I wish they had taken Tau more along the lines of Hammerheads and Skyrays than Crisis Suits++.

But we have crossed that bridge.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I wish they had taken Tau more along the lines of Hammerheads and Skyrays than Crisis Suits++.

But we have crossed that bridge.

That said, Tau are a piece in the game, not the player. Their fate decides on what moves either Cegorath or Tzeech deside to make.

(My money is on Cegorath - what would Tzeech want with an Incorruptible Swarm?)

Someone mentioned that the Eldar may have made the Ethereals. I've also read that it's possible that the Warp Storm that originally shielded the Tau homeworld from Imperial Exterminatus, was created by Eldrad himself.
"It's an older fluff, sir, but it checks out"

There has been no reveal as to why the Eldar wanted to Tau to prosper and become a force in the galaxy. I suspect that Eldar are trying to groom the Tau to be their successors to the galaxy. Since Tau are all but immune to the taint of Chaos, Eldar probably see them as the last hope for defeating Chaos.

If the Ends times come, Eldar would probably Allie with Tau

-

With the exception of Biel-Tan, there is no guarantee the endgame of the CWE is Eldar superiority, or even existence.

In my head cannon, one of my Farseers (Lokus) saw a friend die in the Shadow of the Warp, and didn't see Slanesh consume the friend. This has made him believe the Tyranids would stop Slanesh. He now works to ensure Tyranids consume the galaxy (Eldar last, of course).

Some Eldar faction could be trying something similar. By replacing Mankind's ubiquity with the Incorruptible Swarm, Spanish would be at least weakened, and possibly defeatable. It might require a target date of 80k or later to pull off, though.

Well if a "ends times" did happen in 40k either tau would be left standing there going WTF mate? Because i dont even think the Chaos gods know about them other then what gets reported to them since they have no presence in the warp.

Two they agree to join the IoM because we need more cannon fodder.

But that said, an end times will never happen in 40k because of 2 reasons.

1) The models are still selling, this was the largest reason for the end times in fantasy, the models were not selling so they needed to reboot it.

2)We have already had 13 consecutive failed end times because abadon is a worthless piece of gak who can never seem to make it off the first hole on the galactic golf course that is the IoM with out sending the ball right into the drink.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Well if a "ends times" did happen in 40k either tau would be left standing there going WTF mate? Because i dont even think the Chaos gods know about them other then what gets reported to them since they have no presence in the warp.

Two they agree to join the IoM because we need more cannon fodder.

But that said, an end times will never happen in 40k because of 2 reasons.

1) The models are still selling, this was the largest reason for the end times in fantasy, the models were not selling so they needed to reboot it.

2)We have already had 13 consecutive failed end times because abadon is a worthless piece of gak who can never seem to make it off the first hole on the galactic golf course that is the IoM with out sending the ball right into the drink.

Nah mate, they retconned Abby so who's he totally a good general and succeeded on all his objectives now

Tau are a tiny blip in the Warp, not entirely without Warp presence.

I think GW could do an end times storyline without completely AoSing 40K. They'd just need to apply logical consequences to the outcome. Supposing Abaddon can punch his way through to Terra and kill the Emperor, he'd have his hands pretty full consolidating his gains. The galaxy is a big place, so there'd be quite a bit of IoM out there still, and they're not going to just roll over for Abaddon. They'd probably consolidate, rallied by the leadership of the returned Primarchs, who come back not to try and ward off Abaddon from killing the Emperor, but to protect the reborn Emperor until he can mature.

Meantime, the power vacuum would be good for the Orks, Tyranids, and Necrons, but at the same time their increased freedom to move around without resistance from the IoM means they're going to run into each other more often. So, no one xenos faction would be able to run completely rampant, because it'd be checked by the others.

As for the Tau, they'd probably escape notice. The bulk of the forces of Chaos wouldn't bother trying to get all the way out to their little backwater empire, and IoM forces would be too busy staving off Chaos and the aforementioned other xenos to commit the resources necessary to annihilating them. I don't see the IoM remnants suddenly becoming buddy-buddy with the Tau, but when the reborn Emperor can resume rulership over mankind, he'd probably at least establish nonaggression pacts with them and the Eldar, in the interest of mutual survival. I don't know about a Tau-Mankind technological exchange. I'd expect under the Emperor, the human race would renew its own technological advancement.

If the Emperor dies the Imperium dies with him. They might not want to roll over but they have no choice.

 Gamgee wrote:
It seems very out of character for the Tau not to recon the area first with stealth missions. Especially given the fact that they have sensor technology good enough to detect an Imperial Assassin. The people they send to knock out the rogue Arch Magos and other people who are thought impossible.

Edit
Calling it. Tau are going to develop a Warlord killer armor of their own. Next campaign book after this. Also a super heavy tank with titan scale weaponry to bolster their titan legions on the cheap.

Meh! The AdMec would just dig up some old Imperator Titans and play a game of "What Does This Button Do?" until no more Tau were left to destroy.

Speaking of various shades of ad mech

its also possible the Tau can fall from within due to their AI use.

its possible they can go full men of iron.

if there is any hope for them, it may be the eldar pushing them to do a thing. but i dont trust knife ears.

 Desubot wrote:
Speaking of various shades of ad mech

its also possible the Tau can fall from within due to their AI use.

its possible they can go full men of iron.

if there is any hope for them, it may be the eldar pushing them to do a thing. but i dont trust knife ears.

I don't know. From what I've seen the tau have certain level of ethicacy when dealing with their AIs. I doubt you'd ever see them uprise.

 Jaxler wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Speaking of various shades of ad mech

its also possible the Tau can fall from within due to their AI use.

its possible they can go full men of iron.

if there is any hope for them, it may be the eldar pushing them to do a thing. but i dont trust knife ears.

I don't know. From what I've seen the tau have certain level of ethicacy when dealing with their AIs. I doubt you'd ever see them uprise.

Its the nature of AI in SciFi settings.

(handwaviuming intensified)

 EnTyme wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
It seems very out of character for the Tau not to recon the area first with stealth missions. Especially given the fact that they have sensor technology good enough to detect an Imperial Assassin. The people they send to knock out the rogue Arch Magos and other people who are thought impossible.

Edit
Calling it. Tau are going to develop a Warlord killer armor of their own. Next campaign book after this. Also a super heavy tank with titan scale weaponry to bolster their titan legions on the cheap.

Meh! The AdMec would just dig up some old Imperator Titans and play a game of "What Does This Button Do?" until no more Tau were left to destroy.

And when we have built a suit that surpasses even metal gear... I mean the emperor class of titans? What will you do then? Most people don't realize this but the Tau engineer who designed the supremacy armor knew it would be their first level project since the Ethereals specifically asked him to design a series of titan class platforms. Official FW lore with the ta'unar supremacy armor. It is inevitable. Also the sales were crazy insane on Ta'unar to the point that there were was a month long delay making them for people before more people could get them.

I think you are over estimating the Tau in that regard. They've been fighting the Imperium for Centuries, and are only now rolling out things equivalent to Imperial Knights and Warhounds. They don't even have a Reaver equivalent yet, nevermind a Warlord.

 Crazyterran wrote:
I think you are over estimating the Tau in that regard. They've been fighting the Imperium for Centuries, and are only now rolling out things equivalent to Imperial Knights and Warhounds. They don't even have a Reaver equivalent yet, nevermind a Warlord.

I think your underestimating sales power. Our greatest trump card except for like a few other factions who can trump even us.

 Gamgee wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
I think you are over estimating the Tau in that regard. They've been fighting the Imperium for Centuries, and are only now rolling out things equivalent to Imperial Knights and Warhounds. They don't even have a Reaver equivalent yet, nevermind a Warlord.

I think your underestimating sales power. Our greatest trump card except for like a few other factions who can trump even us.

Wait, so why are they selling well if the ITC nerfed them so hard? Shouldn't people be dumping them left and right? Oh wait....

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
I think you are over estimating the Tau in that regard. They've been fighting the Imperium for Centuries, and are only now rolling out things equivalent to Imperial Knights and Warhounds. They don't even have a Reaver equivalent yet, nevermind a Warlord.

I think your underestimating sales power. Our greatest trump card except for like a few other factions who can trump even us.

Wait, so why are they selling well if the ITC nerfed them so hard? Shouldn't people be dumping them left and right? Oh wait....

Because the vast minority of players use ITC rules?

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
I think you are over estimating the Tau in that regard. They've been fighting the Imperium for Centuries, and are only now rolling out things equivalent to Imperial Knights and Warhounds. They don't even have a Reaver equivalent yet, nevermind a Warlord.

I think your underestimating sales power. Our greatest trump card except for like a few other factions who can trump even us.

Wait, so why are they selling well if the ITC nerfed them so hard? Shouldn't people be dumping them left and right? Oh wait....

How is this relevant to the conversation? Is say your poking a bee hive here. Frankly, bringing up ITC tau nerfs when they're not even part of the topic is more pr less you provoking drama even if it's not intentional. I'd rather this not derail. If you want to talk about the Itc and tau please just go read one of the old threads, necro one, or start a new one.

 Gamgee wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
I think you are over estimating the Tau in that regard. They've been fighting the Imperium for Centuries, and are only now rolling out things equivalent to Imperial Knights and Warhounds. They don't even have a Reaver equivalent yet, nevermind a Warlord.

I think your underestimating sales power. Our greatest trump card except for like a few other factions who can trump even us.

I think you're overestimated their access to the sheer resources and manpower needed to build a true titan, and forgetting that the AdMech have entire planets devoted to building them. I don't doubt the Tau's ability to develop technology, I doubt their ability to produce it in the quantities it would take to actual matter to an empire of trillions.

 EnTyme wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
I think you are over estimating the Tau in that regard. They've been fighting the Imperium for Centuries, and are only now rolling out things equivalent to Imperial Knights and Warhounds. They don't even have a Reaver equivalent yet, nevermind a Warlord.

I think your underestimating sales power. Our greatest trump card except for like a few other factions who can trump even us.

I think you're overestimated their access to the sheer resources and manpower needed to build a true titan, and forgetting that the AdMech have entire planets devoted to building them. I don't doubt the Tau's ability to develop technology, I doubt their ability to produce it in the quantities it would take to actual matter to an empire of trillions.

If only the Imperium could remember how anything worked...

Aren't Emperor class titans usually built on site and are generally not transported?.

though regardless, 2-3 full chapters coming in would and could woop tau really hard. especially if they went full extermnautus. (aka nuke it from orbit)

they dont need titans.

but that would never happen as they dont consider tau enough of a threat.

especially if they are getting AOSed by some one else.

 Desubot wrote:
Aren't Emperor class titans usually built on site and are generally not transported?.

though regardless, 2-3 full chapters coming in would and could woop tau really hard. especially if they went full extermnautus. (aka nuke it from orbit)

they dont need titans.

but that would never happen as they dont consider tau enough of a threat.

especially if they are getting AOSed by some one else.

They tried the nuking from orbit. It doesn't work so well when we have planetary shields. Once those go down though they can nuke the area not shielded, but being Tau we have multiple redundant shield systems. Also they did send some chapters after us in the Damocles books and they lost twice. And a huge crusade and probably a 100 IK's as well, company of super heavy tanks. 4 assassins, and a partridge in a pear tree.

 Gamgee wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Aren't Emperor class titans usually built on site and are generally not transported?.

though regardless, 2-3 full chapters coming in would and could woop tau really hard. especially if they went full extermnautus. (aka nuke it from orbit)

they dont need titans.

but that would never happen as they dont consider tau enough of a threat.

especially if they are getting AOSed by some one else.

They tried the nuking from orbit. It doesn't work so well when we have planetary shields. Once those go down though they can nuke the area not shielded, but being Tau we have multiple redundant shield systems. Also they did send some chapters after us in the Damocles books and they lost twice. And a huge crusade and probably a 100 IK's as well, company of super heavy tanks. 4 assassins, and a partridge in a pear tree.

Do the shields work against physical objects?

 Jaxler wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
I think you are over estimating the Tau in that regard. They've been fighting the Imperium for Centuries, and are only now rolling out things equivalent to Imperial Knights and Warhounds. They don't even have a Reaver equivalent yet, nevermind a Warlord.

I think your underestimating sales power. Our greatest trump card except for like a few other factions who can trump even us.

Wait, so why are they selling well if the ITC nerfed them so hard? Shouldn't people be dumping them left and right? Oh wait....

How is this relevant to the conversation? Is say your poking a bee hive here. Frankly, bringing up ITC tau nerfs when they're not even part of the topic is more pr less you provoking drama even if it's not intentional. I'd rather this not derail. If you want to talk about the Itc and tau please just go read one of the old threads, necro one, or start a new one.

I think it's totally relevant. Gamgee says that Tau are selling like crazy, which is at odds with his and others' claims that ITC nerfed them into the ground. Seeing that ITC is one of the largest rulesets used at tournaments, this is at odds with his claims.

 Gamgee wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Aren't Emperor class titans usually built on site and are generally not transported?.

though regardless, 2-3 full chapters coming in would and could woop tau really hard. especially if they went full extermnautus. (aka nuke it from orbit)

they dont need titans.

but that would never happen as they dont consider tau enough of a threat.

especially if they are getting AOSed by some one else.

They tried the nuking from orbit. It doesn't work so well when we have planetary shields. Once those go down though they can nuke the area not shielded, but being Tau we have multiple redundant shield systems. Also they did send some chapters after us in the Damocles books and they lost twice. And a huge crusade and probably a 100 IK's as well, company of super heavy tanks. 4 assassins, and a partridge in a pear tree.

Well obviously they are not going to just straight nuke a shield.
and is why i said 2-3 chapters. the smurfs clearly failed by them selves. and i dont recall was it the whole chapter or a few companies. (honestly dont recall never got the damocles book)
also since IIRC smurfs also was dealing with nids too.

pm713 wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Aren't Emperor class titans usually built on site and are generally not transported?.

though regardless, 2-3 full chapters coming in would and could woop tau really hard. especially if they went full extermnautus. (aka nuke it from orbit)

they dont need titans.

but that would never happen as they dont consider tau enough of a threat.

especially if they are getting AOSed by some one else.

They tried the nuking from orbit. It doesn't work so well when we have planetary shields. Once those go down though they can nuke the area not shielded, but being Tau we have multiple redundant shield systems. Also they did send some chapters after us in the Damocles books and they lost twice. And a huge crusade and probably a 100 IK's as well, company of super heavy tanks. 4 assassins, and a partridge in a pear tree.

Do the shields work against physical objects?

No, but I'm assuming that starships do, and anything that could simply avoid being blown up by star ships probably would be so big and time intensive and expensive to properly make mobile that I question if it would be worth it. You'd essentially be killing a planet by throwing a planet at them. Where is the gain in this?

 jreilly89 wrote:

I think it's totally relevant. Gamgee says that Tau are selling like crazy, which is at odds with his and others' claims that ITC nerfed them into the ground. Seeing that ITC is one of the largest rulesets used at tournaments, this is at odds with his claims.

Only if the majority of players use ITC rules.

They don't. Move on.

 Desubot wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Aren't Emperor class titans usually built on site and are generally not transported?.

though regardless, 2-3 full chapters coming in would and could woop tau really hard. especially if they went full extermnautus. (aka nuke it from orbit)

they dont need titans.

but that would never happen as they dont consider tau enough of a threat.

especially if they are getting AOSed by some one else.

They tried the nuking from orbit. It doesn't work so well when we have planetary shields. Once those go down though they can nuke the area not shielded, but being Tau we have multiple redundant shield systems. Also they did send some chapters after us in the Damocles books and they lost twice. And a huge crusade and probably a 100 IK's as well, company of super heavy tanks. 4 assassins, and a partridge in a pear tree.

Well obviously they are not going to just straight nuke a shield.
and is why i said 2-3 chapters. the smurfs clearly failed by them selves. and i dont recall was it the whole chapter or a few companies. (honestly dont recall never got the damocles book)
also since IIRC smurfs also was dealing with nids too.

The smurfs didn't lose in Damocles, they fought to a standstill and then decided the 'Nids were a bigger threat and just kind of left.

 EnTyme wrote:


The smurfs didn't lose in Damocles, they fought to a standstill and then decided the 'Nids were a bigger threat and just kind of left.

Mk thanks

 Jaxler wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Aren't Emperor class titans usually built on site and are generally not transported?.

though regardless, 2-3 full chapters coming in would and could woop tau really hard. especially if they went full extermnautus. (aka nuke it from orbit)

they dont need titans.

but that would never happen as they dont consider tau enough of a threat.

especially if they are getting AOSed by some one else.

They tried the nuking from orbit. It doesn't work so well when we have planetary shields. Once those go down though they can nuke the area not shielded, but being Tau we have multiple redundant shield systems. Also they did send some chapters after us in the Damocles books and they lost twice. And a huge crusade and probably a 100 IK's as well, company of super heavy tanks. 4 assassins, and a partridge in a pear tree.

Do the shields work against physical objects?

No, but I'm assuming that starships do, and anything that could simply avoid being blown up by star ships probably would be so big and time intensive and expensive to properly make mobile that I question if it would be worth it. You'd essentially be killing a planet by throwing a planet at them. Where is the gain in this?

I was thinking of Cyclonic Torpedo's.

 insaniak wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

I think it's totally relevant. Gamgee says that Tau are selling like crazy, which is at odds with his and others' claims that ITC nerfed them into the ground. Seeing that ITC is one of the largest rulesets used at tournaments, this is at odds with his claims.

Only if the majority of players use ITC rules.

They don't. Move on.

It's not a majority, but the Las Vegas Open, the Bay Area Open, parts of Canada and Europe all use the ITC rules. It's at least a 1/3, I'd argue.

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/community/frontline-gamings-independent-tournament-circuit/

I'm not talking Damocles Mk1 I'm talking Damocles Mk2 the campaign books from last year. They used something more powerful than a cyclonic torpedo. Something so powerful it nuked an entire region of space, but there was one planetary shield left on the planet and the Tau base/city/region under it survived as did the Tau.

The Ravenguard and White Scars were deployed mostly in full and at the same time they had hundreds of billions of guardsmen and weaponry. Super heavy tanks, skitarri war cohorts, gigantic fleets, hundreds of IK's, the 4 assassins, tank regiments, and a super heavy tank company. The strange exterminatus device which is the strongest ever used only managed to draw the front to a stale mate. However as of the conclusion of the two tooks the Tau took 4 planets and partially lost one. The IoM is now in full defense mode because they expended such high casualties they can't afford to launch any more crusades at the Tau. Which means they fethed up bad and only through tech priest heresy did they manage to stall the Tau.

The high lords of terra created this massive crusade. One of the largest in recent history and the Tau defeated it at a high cost. They lost probably 40% of the entire Tau Empire/Farsight Enclaves military, but they broke the IoM. If it wasn't for deus ex machina they would have pursued them. IoM is setting up every planet to be a heavily defended fortress world in the region because they know its only a matter of time until the Tau return and they lack the regional resources to attack.

They lost hardcore to one Tau planet and half of the Tau army/navy.

Edit
Did it ever occur to you they sell because they look cool? No one even plays me anymore and I bought my Taunar just to have. I mean if someone wants to have a challenge game sure but mostly because its awesome looking. Also the Taunar isn't banned, but all gargantuan and SHV that have a D blast over a certain size are. So if it were to get a new weapon that fires multiple d shots not in a blast over that size it would not be banned. Which it is because we seen the new heavy rail gun array and meteor missile system variants.

Sounds like fanfic to me...

So Tau lost almost half their fighting power to a great deal less than that? Doesn't sound so great to me.

pm713 wrote:
Sounds like fanfic to me...

So Tau lost almost half their fighting power to a great deal less than that? Doesn't sound so great to me.

Nah Tau were vastly vastly vastly outnumbered. Would have lost if Farsight didn't show up and Mont'ka the IoM back to the stone ages. Oh we lost our one Ethereal character. Oh no. That was sarcasm.

 Gamgee wrote:
I'm not talking Damocles Mk1 I'm talking Damocles Mk2 the campaign books from last year. They used something more powerful than a cyclonic torpedo. Something so powerful it nuked an entire region of space, but there was one planetary shield left on the planet and the Tau base/city/region under it survived as did the Tau.

The Ravenguard and White Scars were deployed mostly in full and at the same time they had hundreds of billions of guardsmen and weaponry. Super heavy tanks, skitarri war cohorts, gigantic fleets, hundreds of IK's, the 4 assassins, tank regiments, and a super heavy tank company. The strange exterminatus device which is the strongest ever used only managed to draw the front to a stale mate. However as of the conclusion of the two tooks the Tau took 4 planets and partially lost one. The IoM is now in full defense mode because they expended such high casualties they can't afford to launch any more crusades at the Tau. Which means they fethed up bad and only through tech priest heresy did they manage to stall the Tau.

The high lords of terra created this massive crusade. One of the largest in recent history and the Tau defeated it at a high cost. They lost probably 40% of the entire Tau Empire/Farsight Enclaves military, but they broke the IoM. If it wasn't for deus ex machina they would have pursued them. IoM is setting up every planet to be a heavily defended fortress world in the region because they know its only a matter of time until the Tau return and they lack the regional resources to attack.

They lost hardcore to one Tau planet and half of the Tau army/navy.

So a couple fringe elements of two (not even full strength) legions were defeated by the Tau? I'd hardly say they broke the IoM. They've done squat compared to Horus. When the Tau come to Terra and actually step foot near the Golden Throne, then they'll have done something. As of now, the Tau are fly compared to the IoM.

Oh we also killed the Ravenguard chapter master. We'll get the others in time and the others they send at us.

You are right if the Imperium ever sent like a quarter of its manpower it would wipe us out, but it can't. And its manpower in the Damocles Gulf is exhausted leaving them open to attacks from other forces and future attacks from us meaning the region has more or less been destabilized to the point they might lose it. I have a feeling in the future of 40k the next warzone between Tau and IoM will be Ultramar. At some point the Tau will reach a size where they will be all but unstoppable since no crusade could kill them barring one by the Emperor himself.

 Gamgee wrote:
Oh we also killed the Ravenguard chapter master. We'll get the others in time and the others they send at us.

You are right if the Imperium ever sent like a quarter of its manpower it would wipe us out, but it can't. And its manpower in the Damocles Gulf is exhausted leaving them open to attacks from other forces and future attacks from us meaning the region has more or less been destabilized to the point they might lose it. I have a feeling in the future of 40k the next warzone between Tau and IoM will be Ultramar. At some point the Tau will reach a size where they will be all but unstoppable since no crusade could kill them barring one by the Emperor himself.

Yeah, sure. As soon as the Lion or Guilliman or Khan or any of the Primarchs come back, take the seat, and unite the IoM, they're gonna stomp all over the Xenos. Besides, Tyranids, Orks, and Necrons are bigger threats than Tau. Tau are just hiding in a corner of the universe.

 Gamgee wrote:
Oh we also killed the Ravenguard chapter master. We'll get the others in time and the others they send at us.

You are right if the Imperium ever sent like a quarter of its manpower it would wipe us out, but it can't. And its manpower in the Damocles Gulf is exhausted leaving them open to attacks from other forces and future attacks from us meaning the region has more or less been destabilized to the point they might lose it. I have a feeling in the future of 40k the next warzone between Tau and IoM will be Ultramar. At some point the Tau will reach a size where they will be all but unstoppable since no crusade could kill them barring one by the Emperor himself.

Congratulations you killed a largely insignificant Chapter Master and lost your species leader in return. Very well done.

The "no crusade except one by the Emperor" is a bit rubbish. You aren't going to reach a point where you're that strong. That's like saying Eldar would be the single most powerful force in the galaxy if they united.

 Gamgee wrote:
Did it ever occur to you they sell because they look cool? No one even plays me anymore and I bought my Taunar just to have. I mean if someone wants to have a challenge game sure but mostly because its awesome looking. Also the Taunar isn't banned, but all gargantuan and SHV that have a D blast over a certain size are. So if it were to get a new weapon that fires multiple d shots not in a blast over that size it would not be banned. Which it is because we seen the new heavy rail gun array and meteor missile system variants.

ITC ban all Titan class units, which the Ta'unar is (shares a similar statline to the Tyranid Hierophant). Under current rules, it's never going to be allowed in an ITC event.

As for what I think will happen, they'll give them plot armour that allows their fledgling empire to develop while Chaos and the Imperium go to war. Possibly with relentless interference from the Orks, Ghaz in particular.

 Gamgee wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Sounds like fanfic to me...

So Tau lost almost half their fighting power to a great deal less than that? Doesn't sound so great to me.

Nah Tau were vastly vastly vastly outnumbered. Would have lost if Farsight didn't show up and Mont'ka the IoM back to the stone ages. Oh we lost our one Ethereal character. Oh no. That was sarcasm.

first of all stop refering to Tau as "we" you're a human being playing a war game with plastic soldiers. secondly I don't think you understand how unwinnable the situation is for the Tau. the IoM could literally destroy every Tau held or Tau contested world, and not even feel it. (they don't because the Tau are seen as an irriatant that can be handled conventionally as soon as time and resources permit) losing a world for the Tau is a problem. losing a world for the IoM is an ACCOUNTING error. whats the kill ratio of a Tau Firewarrior vs a guardsman? unless every firewarrior can kill hundreds of thousands of guardsmen before he bites it? it's a losing battle. furthermore on a strategic level the Tau are outmatched. the Imperial Navy has faster ships then the Tau and more of them. even if we assume the latest Tau Cruiser is better then it's IN contemporaries. they don't have eneugh of them. to defeat the Tau all the IoM would have to do is send it's fleets ranging hitting and destroying worlds inside the Tau empire. they'd be unable to respond in a timely fashion.

Yes, you killed a Chapter Master we'd NEVER heard of before. Sounds rather like a case of Redshirt Death, if you ask me.

But Aun'Va? Supreme Ethereal, holding the actual Empire together? That's a big issue, and shows that not even the Ethereals are safe from the Imperial's wrath.

Tau are insignificant as they are. There are plenty worse races that threaten the Imperium - Orks, Eldar, Hrud, Loxatl, Slaugth, Barghesi. Hell, the Slaugth even occupy an area of space similar to the Tau. And the Barghesi are so deadly, they have an entire Chapter dedicated to guarding against them - can the Tau say likewise?

40K was originally founded on the premise that it was the last days of mankind - it was only a matter of time before the rotting carcass of the Imperium was going to collapse.

Whatever is strong enough to take out the Empire when that day comes the Tau would be hard-pressed to survive.

However, I think the appropriate story line would be: Eldar are wiped out, mankind becomes a dying race like the Eldar and the ascending Tau empire teeters on the brink as the circle of Necrons, Tyranids, Orks and Chaos press inwards on its borders, slowly eating at the Tau's heart.

And a new race emerges at the fringes of the Tau empire, its noble and shining star burning bright against the festering, rotting corpse of the Tau empire...

Eldar lore seem to be going for a "glory and redemption is coming" feel recently. It's possible they'll just get stronger.

 Frozocrone wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
Did it ever occur to you they sell because they look cool? No one even plays me anymore and I bought my Taunar just to have. I mean if someone wants to have a challenge game sure but mostly because its awesome looking. Also the Taunar isn't banned, but all gargantuan and SHV that have a D blast over a certain size are. So if it were to get a new weapon that fires multiple d shots not in a blast over that size it would not be banned. Which it is because we seen the new heavy rail gun array and meteor missile system variants.

ITC ban all Titan class units, which the Ta'unar is (shares a similar statline to the Tyranid Hierophant). Under current rules, it's never going to be allowed in an ITC event.

As for what I think will happen, they'll give them plot armour that allows their fledgling empire to develop while Chaos and the Imperium go to war. Possibly with relentless interference from the Orks, Ghaz in particular.

In that case that aids my point. People are only buying it because it's cool and fun to model/paint. With maybe some brave opponents who try fight it for fun.

pm713 wrote:
Eldar lore seem to be going for a "glory and redemption is coming" feel recently. It's possible they'll just get stronger.

The original tone has definately changed. Before the creation of the Tau I think it was clear that things were not going to end well for anyone. However, the "bright, shining stars" of the initial Tau release I think has changed GW's approach to the world. It seems like they've begun to consider there might be a way for the various "good" races to pull through and the likes of the Necrons, Chaos, Tyranids and Chaos could be blunted. For example, examine the closing images the Eldar see in the end of the 3rd(?) edition Necron codex vs. the 5th edition. In the 3rd edition its clear the universe's fate is to end up as sacrifices in the Necron's foul machines. In the 5th, the Necrons are instead destined to awaken to battle the Tyranids. There's many other subtle shifts that have been made since 5th edition to suggest that while the end is coming, it may not all end in the death of the universe - a changed one, but not a lost one.

 Stormonu wrote:
40K was originally founded on the premise that it was the last days of mankind - it was only a matter of time before the rotting carcass of the Imperium was going to collapse.

This.

End times is part of the 40k deal already, it won't "come"....

End times as "blowing a world to bits" isn't a challenge for WH 40k, lots of WMD , many factions able to use such weapons.

The only "end times" Tau are going to be a part of is: an end to sitting on the sidelines. Whoever followed the Background development from 3rd Edition to 7th should have seen the Tau meet the rest of the "players" step by step.
WH 40k is a wargame, everybody is involved and fighting all out wars on multiple fronts is common practice.

Picking a faction and making the false assumption of "my guys can pick and choose, they fihgt just 1 opponent at their terms" is silly.

Would Tyranids aim for all the biomass they can get ?
Would Orks refuse to fight ?
Would Chaos go for anything but the ruin and corruption of everyone?
Would Necrons leave any world in somebody elses hands?
Would Eldar stop beeing space elves ?
Would "Humans in space" just give up and leave the emperors galaxy in the hands of the vile xeno , the traitor and the mutant?

So what happens to Tau is they are going to get sandwiched between the fighting major powers and have no escape route beyond weird deus ex machina plot armor nonsense. Not a good place to be IMHO.

Tau may have found a place as a "campaign force" , but never as part of the core of the game. The difference of scale of the major forces and the Tau is just too big. Maybe GW had a chance to run with the dual-concept of Kroot and Tau, a xeno coalition, but they wanted
a purist empire instead and blocked the path to a "federation" or "alliance" of xenos on an equal footing.
Seems like a nice expansion to have more participants in 40k, if some don't have to be everywhere and all the time active. But thats not the concept of GW , isn't it?

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Yes, you killed a Chapter Master we'd NEVER heard of before. Sounds rather like a case of Redshirt Death, if you ask me.

But Aun'Va? Supreme Ethereal, holding the actual Empire together? That's a big issue, and shows that not even the Ethereals are safe from the Imperial's wrath.

Tau are insignificant as they are. There are plenty worse races that threaten the Imperium - Orks, Eldar, Hrud, Loxatl, Slaugth, Barghesi. Hell, the Slaugth even occupy an area of space similar to the Tau. And the Barghesi are so deadly, they have an entire Chapter dedicated to guarding against them - can the Tau say likewise?

The Supreme Ethereal dying isn't that big of a deal. The Tau upper class successfully covered it up. It's possible that Aun'va (My Tau is a bit rusty, but that's a rank, I believe) was just a title, and many different Ethereals have held that title (judging by how easily Shadowsun covered his death up).
IMO, Farsight or Shadowsun dying would be a much worse event for the Tau than the death of Aun'va. It's easy to replace a governor like Aun'va (if Aun'va was truly an absolute leader, judging by the mention of Ethereal Councils, he probably wasn't), but losing a military leader of Farsight caliber (Or, despite how much I hate her, even Shadowsun level) would severely hurt the entire Tau military.

Correct answer to the OP: the Tau will BE the end times for 40k. Tau technology will continue to develop to a point where none of the other factions can hope to win, and the end times will be the story of the Imperium's final stand against the inevitable galaxy-spanning Tau Empire.

 Peregrine wrote:
Correct answer to the OP: the Tau will BE the end times for 40k. Tau technology will continue to develop to a point where none of the other factions can hope to win, and the end times will be the story of the Imperium's final stand against the inevitable galaxy-spanning Tau Empire.

Then next time we get to be the bloated corrupt Empire some young guns are fighting off.

The Tau already got to use the Warp for some hand wavium so that they could advance from a primitive state to a space faring race without getting wiped out by the Imperium. I imagine more of that will be needed for Tau to survive.

Barring that I'd say they become a very temporary source of the highest quality bovine products served fresh for the Tyranids. Or an on going source of poorly fed and raised bovine products for Orks. Or they become a highly managed economic source of industry standard bovine products for the Imperium.

 Gamgee wrote:
I'm not talking Damocles Mk1 I'm talking Damocles Mk2 the campaign books from last year. They used something more powerful than a cyclonic torpedo. Something so powerful it nuked an entire region of space, but there was one planetary shield left on the planet and the Tau base/city/region under it survived as did the Tau.

The Ravenguard and White Scars were deployed mostly in full and at the same time they had hundreds of billions of guardsmen and weaponry. Super heavy tanks, skitarri war cohorts, gigantic fleets, hundreds of IK's, the 4 assassins, tank regiments, and a super heavy tank company. The strange exterminatus device which is the strongest ever used only managed to draw the front to a stale mate. However as of the conclusion of the two tooks the Tau took 4 planets and partially lost one. The IoM is now in full defense mode because they expended such high casualties they can't afford to launch any more crusades at the Tau. Which means they fethed up bad and only through tech priest heresy did they manage to stall the Tau.

The high lords of terra created this massive crusade. One of the largest in recent history and the Tau defeated it at a high cost. They lost probably 40% of the entire Tau Empire/Farsight Enclaves military, but they broke the IoM. If it wasn't for deus ex machina they would have pursued them. IoM is setting up every planet to be a heavily defended fortress world in the region because they know its only a matter of time until the Tau return and they lack the regional resources to attack.

They lost hardcore to one Tau planet and half of the Tau army/navy.

Edit
Did it ever occur to you they sell because they look cool? No one even plays me anymore and I bought my Taunar just to have. I mean if someone wants to have a challenge game sure but mostly because its awesome looking. Also the Taunar isn't banned, but all gargantuan and SHV that have a D blast over a certain size are. So if it were to get a new weapon that fires multiple d shots not in a blast over that size it would not be banned. Which it is because we seen the new heavy rail gun array and meteor missile system variants.

The Raven Guard had a Company + Chapter Master, and the White Scars had the Khan's 4th Company.

There was only House Terryn and the Obsidian Knight, and it wasn't all of House Terryn.

And the Tau didn't break the Imperium. It broke a Cadian battlegroup, two Companies of Marines, and part of a Knightly House. And I guess some Skitarii, but do robot people really count as people? It was undoubtedly the biggest Crusade they've launched in the Eastern Fringe in a long time.

And for the record, the Imperium calls any offensive action a Crusade. It's defensive actions get called 'status quo'.

Agrellan was rendered worthless, the Tau lost half of their strength, the Empire has lost their will to expand (for the moment, at least), the Tau were reminded once again their naval power means diddly in comparison to the Imperiums (all of their ships fethed off when they saw the Imperium ride in), and their great leaders, Farsight and Shadowsun were wounded. One of them is stuck in a Ghostkeel now.

Oh, and an entire Nebula is now on fire as a giant middle finger, from the Admech with love.

EDIT: And Damocles Mark 1 ended when Sicarius chipped a nail, realized there wasn't going to be any glorious hand to hand combat moment for him to take all the credit for the war for, and he went home to go stab some Tyranids.

No one is stuck in a ghostkeel. You might be referring to the AI piloted broadside who will just get fixed.

Didn't Shadowsun get crippled and now is put in a Ghostkeel turned life support?

She's a Taunaught. Dreadtau?

Not even close. Your thinking of Oblotai who is one of Farsights merry men. He is an AI recreation of his fire instructor put into a Broadside chassis. He was destroyed by one of the assassins, but he is just an AI he can be rebuilt. Not like it got his memory cores and his backups in the labs back in the enclaves.

Edit
There is also another of Farsights men who is entombed in it with advanced life support nanites keeping him alive, but I can't recall his name off the top of my head. This happened ages before Damocles MK2.

Edit3
Shadowsun made copies of her XV22 (signature suit) to bait the raven guard chapter master. They only had chosen Tau willing to sacrifice themselves. Then she was hiding off the battlefield and when the fake Shadowsun died she struck and killed the chapter master. She was in the Ghostkeel when she did this, but then switched back to her XV22. This is Damocles Kauyon so book 1.

I remember she got wounded in the first book after Voltoris, when she gets browbeat by Aun'va immediately afterwards (at least in the anthology).

For some reason I remember something bad happening to her. Maybe I'm confusing her with Torchstar somehow?

Though, after refreshing myself with the 1d4chan page, it seems the only one who won was the Mechanicus, because they got to steal Tau tech, and watch a big explosion.

I mean, unless you count the Tau losing half their forces, the Damocles Gulf being cut off and the Taus expansion being put on hold for the foreseeable future, and pretty much reversing all of their gains up to Agrellan as a win. I mean, I guess they technically held the planet, but it is unusable.

You must be thinking of someone else since it wasn't Shadowsun that happened too. She was wounded on Voltoris but escaped and her small force she took suffered damage then prefecta happens gets conquered, then Agrellan pt 2 which is the end of Mont'ka. Not true in the book there is a map that shows us acquiring 4 new planets on the cut off side than Agrellan got mostly burned except the safe zone. So if Agrellan had not been lost 5, but it mostly is so 4.

So it is a net gain for the Tau as long as they can build back up. Considering your having problems remembering all this it's a wonder there's a lot of people out there who think the tau are just some dusty backwater with a few fancy guns. The whole point of the Tau is they expand and show a new way of doing things. Which is what makes them so threatening. Which is why I can't see them doing anything but expanding. Oh they suffer defeats here and there but they learn from them. Which is what makes them dangerous. However I do think they'll turn their attention to another direction to expand in at least until they are ready to go at the gulf again.

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Damocles_Crusade

The Tau are a dusty backwater. They aren't even the largest Xenos empire in the 40k universe. They are a blip on the galaxy map, a galaxy that the Imperium controls. The threat they are is often overstated, and the Imperium has devoted more resources to watching non-game races such as the Hrud and the Slaugth than they do the Tau.

Let's look at the map of the Tau Empire.

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/6/67/Tau_Empire_Galactic_Map.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130416021456

(This map also handily shows us all of the Tau stuff that is now completely boned due to the firestorm that is the Damocles gulf)

17 septs, average of five worlds each, let's say. 85. Let's add another 20 for their recent conquests and random worlds that might not be part of a sept, and another 20 for the random Xenos and such that are part of team Tau.

125 worlds. not bad for a small fry, not bad at all.

And then the fire wall happened.

The firewall that blocks off the Damocles gulf is one that will block any further Tau expansion (at least into Imperial space) for a long time. Sure, they are in the process of developing something, of course they are, but it is unreliable and expensive. Any Tau colony on the other side, or within the firestorm is completely cut off, capable of being rolled up by any passing Imperium patrol if they are so inclined, since the Imperium literally doesn't care about the fire wall with their ability to travel through the warp.

Farsight lost a decent amount of forces holding Agrellan, and now has to fight alone against Leviathan. He is in no position to strike against the Imperium even if he wanted to.

I mean, before Montka, the Tau didn't even realize the scope of the bear they were poking. They thought Severax was the king of all Space Marines. And now that the Imperium, for the first time, has sent a meaningful force against them, and they lost half of their armies and their high leader.

Is that something that would happen to a player that is a serious contender at a galactic scale? Are those thoughts of a race that have any idea of the Galaxy they are stepping into?

They'll get there.

If the Galaxy survives what is coming, yes, yes they will. I'm sure in five thousand years or so they will have most of the Eastern Fringe and the southern part of the Galaxy. A lot hinges on how the battle for Ultramar goes, that will really determine how much they gain.

 Crazyterran wrote:
*snip*

Okay. Now what's your fething point? Am I supposed to quit the hobby because my chosen faction is tiny, insignificant, inconsequential, etc.? Because it sure as feth doesn't feel like I'm "allowed" to enjoy the hobby like you lot are.

Tau are small and smart.

Yes high end impirium tech and war ships make them look like toy weapons but there going to survive by brains, not the imperial brawn and mass scale.

Tau are smart, adapt and evolve. They have own way to survive.

 Sidstyler wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
*snip*

Okay. Now what's your fething point? Am I supposed to quit the hobby because my chosen faction is tiny, insignificant, inconsequential, etc.? Because it sure as feth doesn't feel like I'm "allowed" to enjoy the hobby like you lot are.

I think his point is that it doesn't really matter what happens to the Tau when the end times comes because they're one of many minor xenos races.

They really aren't a major galactic power like the Imperium or like the Eldar and Necrons used to be. Neither are they a major galactic threat like Chaos or Tyranids.

So, either they'll take the opportunity to thrive or they'll get wiped out but they aren't going to significantly change things on a galactic scale.

 Scott-S6 wrote:
So, either they'll take the opportunity to thrive or they'll get wiped out but they aren't going to significantly change things on a galactic scale.

Do they need to? That's one thing I don't understand when people constantly harp on about how "insignificant" the Tau are, how the Imperium could "easily" destroy them (I guess they just haven't wanted it badly enough, since they already tried and failed multiple times), how GW could easily Squat them and the game wouldn't suffer for it (which is bullgak, this game is a hard sell as it is without GW cutting support for factions for stupid reasons and wasting people's time and money)...why can't the Tau just fething be, like what's so hard about that? Why does every playable faction have to be a major galactic player in order to be considered valid? The Hrud and all these other "minor" xenos races apparently exist and no one seems at all bothered by them, it's only the Tau.

I'm perfectly okay with Tau not significantly changing things on a galactic scale and being the kings of their gakky little backwater, I literally couldn't care less. I bought the army because I liked the models and because I wanted to play the game, the background means almost nothing to me because it's all made-up bullgak to sell toys, and most of it's trash anyway (especially "modern" 40k fluff). All its there for is to provide some context for the battles with your miniature dudemanz, because some people feel better having a "reason" for their dudemanz to be fighting. You realize that GW could have just as easily retconned 40k fluff and made it so that the Tau owned half the galaxy and were the Imperium's biggest rival second only to the forces of Chaos, if they really wanted to, right? When you look at what GW did to WHF and all the other stupid gak they've been adding or changing in 40k for years, it sure as hell doesn't look like they care if they piss fans off or not, so it's not like such a massive and sudden change would be completely out of the realm of possibility. If anything they did everyone a favor by putting them in a relatively small and inconsequential part of space, so that us Tau players could have our armies and participate in the game still, without stepping on too many toes or really mucking gak up too much for everyone else, like what I just described. People won't accept Tau as it is, and I have no doubt that scenario would have been enough to make a lot of people rage quit.

Personally I would love to see some of those other minor xenos races get models, or to become playable factions of their own like Tau are (and no, not "replacing" Tau, either). In any case you can bet your ass that if there ever is an End Times event for 40k Tau won't be going anywhere. If it's anything like AoS GW will still be selling all the same kits, maybe phasing out the Finecast ones, and just renaming them all "Tayau" or something just as silly.

 Sidstyler wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
*snip*

Okay. Now what's your fething point? Am I supposed to quit the hobby because my chosen faction is tiny, insignificant, inconsequential, etc.? Because it sure as feth doesn't feel like I'm "allowed" to enjoy the hobby like you lot are.

Clearly that was what I was saying. I mean, you clearly read the whole thread and somehow didn't see that it got sidetracked by current 40K galactic politics rather than the original topic.

The Tau are the little fish with sharp teeth in a galaxy filled with big fish with even bigger teeth. They are the under dogs, the up and coming, the in game example of one of the smaller players trying to make their way in a galaxy that is harsh and unforgiving.

Hell, I own a Tau army. Haven't played with it in ages, but it's not like I hate them or anything.

Edit: if there's a for real end times, I expect the entire Ultima Sgmentum to be pulled into an alternate dimension by Necron douchery, allowing them to have an example of every fsction ready for the reboot. Meanwhile, all the crazy events of the end times happens in the Segmentum Solar and Segmentum Obscuras.

 Peregrine wrote:
Correct answer to the OP: the Tau will BE the end times for 40k. Tau technology will continue to develop to a point where none of the other factions can hope to win, and the end times will be the story of the Imperium's final stand against the inevitable galaxy-spanning Tau Empire.

Ever read Rise of the Tau?

 Gamgee wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Correct answer to the OP: the Tau will BE the end times for 40k. Tau technology will continue to develop to a point where none of the other factions can hope to win, and the end times will be the story of the Imperium's final stand against the inevitable galaxy-spanning Tau Empire.

Then next time we get to be the bloated corrupt Empire some young guns are fighting off.

NO. They are NOT going to turn Warhammer 40k into Red Dawn in Space. BAD!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jhe90 wrote:
Tau are small and smart.

Yes high end impirium tech and war ships make them look like toy weapons but there going to survive by brains, not the imperial brawn and mass scale.

Tau are smart, adapt and evolve. They have own way to survive.

I just want to point out that the only reason humans are as dominant on Earth in real life as we are is because of our brains. We are not particularly strong or fast. We don't have sharp claws or teeth, we don't have natural venoms or poisons to ward off predators. Our skin is laughable as protection. We can be taken out in a fistfight with our pet dogs and the only reason housecats don't kill and eat us is because we're too big.

We started wiping out the species that preyed on us at a time when our most advanced technology was a sharpened rock tied to a long stick. We invented writing (probably) because we found a very vulnerable spot on a prey animal and wanted to be able to communicate that knowledge to everyone. That's not really that related, but it's still cool as hell.

Without our smarts and technology, we would be utterly pathetic as a species.

 Sidstyler wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:
So, either they'll take the opportunity to thrive or they'll get wiped out but they aren't going to significantly change things on a galactic scale.

why can't the Tau just fething be, like what's so hard about that? Why does every playable faction have to be a major galactic player in order to be considered valid?

Who said they need to be a galactic player?

 Sidstyler wrote:

The Hrud and all these other "minor" xenos races apparently exist and no one seems at all bothered by them, it's only the Tau.

The Hrud, etc. don't have a fanbase that likes to make them out to be way more important than they actually are. In many ways the worse thing about the Tau and the cause of much of the Tau hate isn't actually anything about the Tau themselves - it's a certain vocal portion of their fan base (same is true of Star Trek...)

 Scott-S6 wrote:
The Hrud, etc. don't have a fanbase that likes to make them out to be way more important than they actually are. In many ways the worse thing about the Tau and the cause of much of the Tau hate isn't actually anything about the Tau themselves - it's a certain vocal portion of their fan base (same is true of Star Trek...)

Yeah, how dare the Tau players make their faction out to be more than some random NPC faction that got a one-sentence mention somewhere in a book from 1985. It's just so unreasonable for them to think that their army matters. Clearly they should all submit to the divine glory of the space marines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Scott-S6 wrote:
So, either they'll take the opportunity to thrive or they'll get wiped out but they aren't going to significantly change things on a galactic scale.

They aren't going to change things on a galactic scale yet. However, in the long run, the galaxy will be owned by the Tau. They are the only faction that is capable of improving their technology, and eventually they will reach a point where a single gun drone is capable of floating up to the Emperor's golden toilet, titan shots bouncing harmlessly off its paint (after all, why bother turning the shields on against such weak opposition), and turning the corpse-god into a smoking crater. Not that it will really matter of course, with the Imperium's military forces already so thoroughly doomed, which is why such a trivial task would be assigned to a barely-sentient weapon platform instead of actual Tau soldiers.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 Sidstyler wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:
So, either they'll take the opportunity to thrive or they'll get wiped out but they aren't going to significantly change things on a galactic scale.

why can't the Tau just fething be, like what's so hard about that? Why does every playable faction have to be a major galactic player in order to be considered valid?

Who said they need to be a galactic player?

I'm pretty sure there have been countless people who have explicitly said that the fact that Tau aren't a major galactic player is one of the many reasons why they shouldn't exist. I don't have time to go trolling through all the previous Tau hate threads that we've had every other week in order to start naming names, but it's not an uncommon sentiment and is most likely what inspired this thread in the first place.

Like I said, Tau don't have to be a galactic player for me to like them or want to play them, but too often other people seem to use that as a factor to determine whether their existence is "justified" or not. The 40k universe is big enough for the Tau and probably dozens of other races, and even if you couldn't justify making each and every one a full, playable faction, there's a lot of opportunities to make some really awesome models in there. Apparently some people just want more Space Marines and can't stand the thought that Tau or anyone else would take that away from them.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 Sidstyler wrote:

The Hrud and all these other "minor" xenos races apparently exist and no one seems at all bothered by them, it's only the Tau.

The Hrud, etc. don't have a fanbase that likes to make them out to be way more important than they actually are. In many ways the worse thing about the Tau and the cause of much of the Tau hate isn't actually anything about the Tau themselves - it's a certain vocal portion of their fan base (same is true of Star Trek...)

Probably because the Hrud, etc. don't have a fanbase. That's why you never see anyone talk about them, because no one has hundreds/thousands of dollars or hours invested in a Hrud, Barghesi, etc. army. There aren't even any Hrud, etc. models for people to buy, they're literally a sentence or two in a paragraph in some part of the core rulebook fluff that no one ever read because it didn't have anything to do with Space Marines. They might as well not exist, and I'd wager that most people probably don't even know that they do anyway, as they just don't read the background that closely, or haven't been into 40k as long as some of the "vets" have to know about them. Hell, there were people out there who didn't even know who Dark Eldar were before 2010, just because no one ever played them, and they were a hell of a lot easier to find in the fluff than the fething Hrud are.

People defend Tau because they're a full-fledged faction with a large model range and 15 years of support, there's a hell of a lot more there than there ever was for the Hrud or the others. Dropping one of the other "minor" xenos factions from the game wouldn't have any real impact on anything, almost literally no one would care, unlike dropping Tau which would invalidate hundreds of expensive collections and alienate all those people. Also, I'm personally not seeing how the Tau fanbase is any worse than it is for Marines or Eldar. It's the same thing in my eyes; gamers are sometimes eccentric or excitable and they get really into a faction or the lore for a game, and they want to talk about it. And naturally everyone is going to think their favorite is "the best"...if anything I'd say Marine fanboys are the absolute worst, in that regard, because their terrible Mary Sue background helps fuel that kinda crap and you get into situations where you literally can't win an argument with a Marine fan because they're truly convinced that Marines are practically invincible, and that one of their guys should be able to take out your entire army with ease, which is made even worse when they start arguing that this should be reflected in the rules and it's not "fair" for the Marine player that you have a chance of winning against them at all. Eldar players are about as bad, displaying the same kind of arrogance and entitlement you see in the Eldar fluff itself and acting like Eldar superiority is just the natural order of things. So many other fans tend to get "in character" it seems like, and people just kinda groan and shrug it off because that's just how gamers are, they get "weird" sometimes, but most of the time it's not really that harmful, and if anything people being enthusiastic about the game is generally good for the game in the long run. Shows there are people invested in it and they actually care. When Tau players do it, though? Apparently it's wrong, it's gone too far.

Which is why I said before, we're not "allowed" to enjoy our hobby because we like Tau, apparently, because if we show the same exact love or passion for our army that the others do we get mocked or insulted for it, and held up as an example as to why everyone hates us so much.

I have question for you. How would you design a new race to make a model range? It has to be an alien race with no connection to existing ones. So no Eldar Exodites or sub factions ect.

How would you go about doing that if there is no fanbase in place? I'm just curious since if your only metric for deciding what should exist is it has models than nothing new would get made.

Probably get their warpstorm happening again for Plot Armour Storm 2: Shas'O Boogie and emerge even more advanced to compensate.

Tau would likely continue to exist behind some convenient plot armor. Probably would build Craftworld equivalents with Kroot ships as a basis.

Anything else would be to divisive with Tau fanatics being a bit touchy.

"Fanatic", that's funny. If I played any other army I'd just be a "fan".

That said, please don't let me stop you, if you want to say something then go ahead. Unless it wasn't worth saying in the first place, then probably for the best.

Na, I've called Ork players fanatics before as well. There was a guy who did nothing but talk like one for an entire game. He failed a charge and told him if he could somehow speak loud enough to waaaaagh!!! he could reroll even though he already used it. That guy didn't have a voice by the end.

Bought him a drink. He was a fun fanatic.

 Quickjager wrote:
Na, I've called Ork players fanatics before as well. There was a guy who did nothing but talk like one for an entire game. He failed a charge and told him if he could somehow speak loud enough to waaaaagh!!! he could reroll even though he already used it.

Suddenly Age of Sigmar.

 Quickjager wrote:
Na, I've called Ork players fanatics before as well. There was a guy who did nothing but talk like one for an entire game. He failed a charge and told him if he could somehow speak loud enough to waaaaagh!!! he could reroll even though he already used it. That guy didn't have a voice by the end.

Bought him a drink. He was a fun fanatic.

Yeah, because playing the entire game in-character is definitely comparable in fanatic level to "would not be happy if the army they spent tons of time and money on was removed from the game".

Well I guess you kinda have to be a little bit of a fanatic in order to play an army that actively punishes you for playing it, like Orks.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Quickjager wrote:
Na, I've called Ork players fanatics before as well. There was a guy who did nothing but talk like one for an entire game. He failed a charge and told him if he could somehow speak loud enough to waaaaagh!!! he could reroll even though he already used it. That guy didn't have a voice by the end.

Bought him a drink. He was a fun fanatic.

Yeah, because playing the entire game in-character is definitely comparable in fanatic level to "would not be happy if the army they spent tons of time and money on was removed from the game".

I've never said (beyond the occasional IA-Interceptor rage) Tau should be removed, I think they should be reworked. a AoS like end-times would provide a perfect excuse if we followed my idea. Forced to live on ships their entire lives Tau grew to learn CC skills as Tyranids, Orks, and Chaos seek to penetrate to their inner cores and destroy their engines. I've said before (check the history a couple years back) a unit needs to be introduced to Tau that acts as a melee unit, A.K.A. a new model.

Such a model would probably be a subservient xenos.

I also say grav should be removed from the game, which would cause grav models to become uselss. Most people agree however.

You wouldn't have to remove it from the game, just change it or tone it down. It wouldn't make grav models "useless" unless the new grav rules sucked so much no one wanted to use them.

Worst case scenario it's just a weird-looking melta gun.

Will somebody care to explain this Tau-are-terrible crap to me? I see it all the time. "I'm new and I lost to CSM 4 times by 5 points and Tau by 2 points one time. Nerf Tau." "Remove Tau from the game." Calling Tau fans fanatics for doing things less intensively than other army's fans.
I see so much Tau hate, and it's all "They're Communists" or "They're yellow", without any justification whatsoever.

I think the big problem for most people is that they are a negative play experience to play against a lot of the time, especially for new people.

Orks and often Chaos armies rely on getting into close combat, and the JSJ experience is often quite frustrating for them. Armies like Dark Eldar that live or die off cover saves just get noped off the board.

For some people, it feels like you need a competitive list to play against a fluffier tau list (barring auxiliaries, lol).

 Verviedi wrote:
Will somebody care to explain this Tau-are-terrible crap to me? I see it all the time. "I'm new and I lost to CSM 4 times by 5 points and Tau by 2 points one time. Nerf Tau." "Remove Tau from the game." Calling Tau fans fanatics for doing things less intensively than other army's fans.
I see so much Tau hate, and it's all "They're Communists" or "They're yellow", without any justification whatsoever.

I think the Tau hate comes from one of three(?) lines of thought
1. Tau are incredibly single focused in their combat style so in gameplay they basically only shoot and given their long range and supporting fire rule they want to clump together into a gunline and just shoot you off the board. There is little incentive for most of their army to actually move up the field.

2. Tau in the fluff get associated with this idea of "lets all be friends and join the greater good" and that just isn't grim dark enough for people. Its also that the Tau are the new kids on the block with a relatively small empire so it seems improbable to some how the Tau can even survive for 50 years in the shadow of such forces as the IoM, Orks, Chaos, Nids, etc.

3. Tau favor using mech suits and have some more Asian inspired designs so that means they are automatically the Anime faction.

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1. Honestly is a somewhat valid issue with the Tau. By being one of if not the best shooting army in the game it tends to encourage lazy gameplay and downplays the importance of movement and deciding on when to charge in (majority of the time the Tau never want to charge anything that isn't a vehicle that can't punch back). There are playstyles and tactics that get the Tau in close and even can be punchy but they truly are the worst faction at melee in the game.

2. Personally I think people are missing the whole "too perfect society dystopia" and Nineteen Eighty-Four like theme that makes them have a more grey or even darker morality. Their social structure is definitely more akin to Fascism than Communism given their caste system, focus on racial superiority, and manifest destiny belief. Their whole willingness to take allies is basically "join or die" and those that do join aren't treated at the same level as true Tau. But honestly there aren't enough Tau narrative books to really give a properly fleshed out insight into Tau society and how they interact with other races outside of the battlefield.

3. Some like their visual design and others don't. Personally I think that if Eldar are some of the worst offenders of design with their conehead helmets but to each their own (the smaller wraith units look cool imo).

Honestly, the "Tau living as a migrant fleet on tree-ships" concept is stirring my imagination.

Anyone read Dan Simmons INCREDIBLE Hyperion Cantos? That's exactly what I am picturing, and I love it. Tau as insanely tech-advanced, guerilla-tactics fighters would be cool.

Plus a migrant fleet of mech pilots calls to mind all sorts of fun Robotech, anime inspired concepts which likewise could be fun to satirize.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Honestly, the "Tau living as a migrant fleet on tree-ships" concept is stirring my imagination.

Anyone read Dan Simmons INCREDIBLE Hyperion Cantos? That's exactly what I am picturing, and I love it. Tau as insanely tech-advanced, guerilla-tactics fighters would be cool.

Plus a migrant fleet of mech pilots calls to mind all sorts of fun Robotech, anime inspired concepts which likewise could be fun to satirize.

Hum, we already have eldars for that, that would seem repetitive wouldn't it?

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Honestly, the "Tau living as a migrant fleet on tree-ships" concept is stirring my imagination.

Anyone read Dan Simmons INCREDIBLE Hyperion Cantos? That's exactly what I am picturing, and I love it. Tau as insanely tech-advanced, guerilla-tactics fighters would be cool.

Plus a migrant fleet of mech pilots calls to mind all sorts of fun Robotech, anime inspired concepts which likewise could be fun to satirize.

Hum, we already have eldars for that, that would seem repetitive wouldn't it?

Fair enough. :-p Reading it back I realize how right you are. :-p

Space is so vast and big we could have tens of thousands of alien races that are just migrant fleets. The Demiurge who sometimes get mentioned with the Tau are semi migratory miners who harvest asteroids and developed ion weapons for mining and traded it to the Tau.

I wouldn't mind seeing some auxiliary vehicles of theirs since it doesn't sound like they would be their style to do foot combat or suits. I hope the next new Tau update sees us get new auxiliary. That or update and expand upon the two existing ones to give them a new unit each and maybe update their models.

Yes, the Tau are a small, insignificant race - like the Imperium was a few 10-20K years ago. The dying Eldar didn't wipe humanity out then, and the Necron were all too asleep to deal with humanity's sweep into the stars.

The Tau are just starting out, they're advancing rapidly and if they manage to avoid the mistakes of the last 3-4 races (and their battling over the corpse of the human empire), they might make it to the prominence of the master race of the milky way in a few millennium. But, at best it will take that - a few millennium.

BUT 40K is about humanity and its final end. We won't ever see things get that far. If an end time ever comes at best we'd see either the Tau being one of the races fighting over the scraps of the former empire and *coming* into their own glory, or as an ally to those humans hoping to build a better universe and getting away from the rotten remains of the fallen Terran empire.

 Stormonu wrote:
Yes, the Tau are a small, insignificant race - like the Imperium was a few 10-20K years ago. The dying Eldar didn't wipe humanity out then, and the Necron were all too asleep to deal with humanity's sweep into the stars.

The Tau are just starting out, they're advancing rapidly and if they manage to avoid the mistakes of the last 3-4 races (and their battling over the corpse of the human empire), they might make it to the prominence of the master race of the milky way in a few millennium. But, at best it will take that - a few millennium.

BUT 40K is about humanity and its final end. We won't ever see things get that far. If an end time ever comes at best we'd see either the Tau being one of the races fighting over the scraps of the former empire and *coming* into their own glory, or as an ally to those humans hoping to build a better universe and getting away from the rotten remains of the fallen Terran empire.

Really like your post, that's very accurate. I agree we wouldn't see Tau empire great anyway as it would make something as Warhammer 50k, where Humanity fights a merciless galactic conflict for total domination against Tau Empire's forces... Damn, sounds good

They started to get a presence on inmaterium because increase in number, so appears the firsts psi on tau race

And those psi guys adore Chaos, making that eventually all tau follow the Gods.


That will be perfect and a nice surprise xD

I imagine the Tau would either survive behind poorly written, poorly thought out plot armor or fish tacos for all.

Incidedntly I'm one of those people who thinks, and has said the Tau in their CURRENT FORM don't fully fit the game. and my concern is for a fairly signficigent flaw.

every other race has the advantage that they can be anywhere. Tau are limited in area. this DOES make it harder for GW to do big events etc. as to ensure they Tau are involved they HAVE to put it in a small area.

that said I don't think Tau should be removed. but if there was an end times/time jump I'd give the Tau faster warp drives and sprinkle colonies throughout the galaxy

 NorseSig wrote:
I imagine the Tau would either survive behind poorly written, poorly thought out plot armor or fish tacos for all.

According to current GW Policy that's quite likely.

BrianDavion wrote:
this DOES make it harder for GW to do big events etc. as to ensure they Tau are involved they HAVE to put it in a small area.

This isn't a problem because those big events suck from a fluff point of view. It's always a really awkward mess of trying to explain how everyone in the galaxy is interested in some random planet chosen for the battlefield, because omitting factions doesn't sell enough model kits or something. Get rid of the idea of doing all-factions events, focus on story-based events that only include the factions that make sense, and the small territory size of the Tau is not a problem. If there's a story concept where it makes sense for the Tau to be involved it can be near Tau territory. If there's an event that makes sense elsewhere in the galaxy then omitting the Tau (along with several other factions) is not a problem.

Indeed. I understand why people want to have their army represented in a big organised campaign like Armageddon, but sometimes "this doesn't concern you, move along" is the only answer that makes any sense.

I think Medusa V wasn't a bad attempt at having "every faction involved" but it still felt like a bit of a train-wreck.

The 13th Black Crusade was explicitely a galaxy-wide thing which essentially had regions for the Tau and Tyranids to go "quick! whilst everyone else is busy, nick everything not nailed down!"

Anyone read Dan Simmons INCREDIBLE Hyperion Cantos?

....And the shrike kills you.

Edit
Calling it. Tau are going to develop a Warlord killer armor of their own. Next campaign book after this. Also a super heavy tank with titan scale weaponry to bolster their titan legions on the cheap.

In a 40k campaign book? Maybe not. But whilst the 'coming soon' Adeptus Titanicus is supposed to be Horus Heresy set, I can imagine if successful that they'd produce a Stygies sourcebook (Eldar) Armageddon II sourcebook (Orks), Damocles sourcebook (Tau), etc, etc.

I'm not a massive fan of anything bigger than the Ta'Unar. Personally I liked the idea of the Manta, and could definitely see a smaller Manta equivalent - if you're actually looking for military effect and not just trying to compensate for something, giant walkers are cool but stupid. In the original Epic: Armageddon Tau list, there was an intermediate combat superheavy - the Scorpionfish Missile Gunship.

From the description in the epic army list, essentially take an Orca dropship chassis (more or less), and replace the transport capacity with what can be broadly defined as All The Missiles - it had a seeker missile/markerlight array more or less the same as a skyray on a dorsal turret, multiple missile pods in a nose mount, smart missile broadsides, and a belly full of 'tracer missiles' - essentially the big-ass seeker missiles the stormsurge carries, but loads of them fired out of big rotary launchers.

I'll take super heavy fliers and titans and tanks of all kinds for Tau. I think they all have their place.

The problem with the Manta is it is really lacking in the firepower department these days with the insane power creep setting in. It was designed in a more conservative 40k era so it's not very cost effective. Great model though and if I was ever rich I would grab it.

I would like to see it recast with updated Tau army in the hold and to add a little crisp detail to it, but I doubt that will happen. Has FW ever recast any of its titans? I haven't been around long enough to know.