AX3 Razorshark Strike Fighter - 165 pts -
BS4, Front 12, Side 11, Rear 10, HP 3, Type Flyer, Combat Role - Fighter, Pursuit 3, Agility 3
2 x Twin-Linked Quad Ion Turret (std) - 30" Str 7, Ap 2, Heavy 2 - The Turrets exists both top and bottom of the model so that they can achieve front firing arc by at least 1.
2 x Seeker Missile - 72" Str 8, Ap 3, Heavy 1, One Use Only
1 x Networked Markerlight
2 x Interceptor Drones - Equipped with Blacksun Filters, Velocity Trackers and EOW and Afterburners
2 x Long Barreled Cyclic Ion Blasters - 24" , Str 7 Ap 4 Assault 6

AX39 Sun Shark Bomber - 150 pts -
BS4, Front 12, Side 11, Rear 11, HP 3, Type Flyer, Combat Role - Bomber, Pursuit 2, Agility 2
1x Pulse Bomb Generator - Pulse Bomb - Unlimited use - No longer fails - Str 5 AP 5 Bomb 1 Large Blast,
2 x Seeker Missile - 72" Str 8, Ap 3, Heavy 1, One Use Only
1 x Twin Linked HYMP - 36" Str 7, Ap 4 Heavy 4
1 x Networked Markerlight
2 x Interceptor Drones - Equipped with Blacksun Filters, Velocity Trackers and EOW and Afterburners
2 x Long Barreled Cyclic Ion Blasters - 24" , Str 7 Ap 4 Assault 6
Can purchase upgrade to Bomb Generator to Make Gravitic Bombs + 50pts - Str D, Ap 2 Bomb 1 Massive Blast (7")

NEW

Vespid Stingwings - 40ppm
WS4, BS 3, S4, T4, W2, I6, A2, Ld8, Save 3+
Strain Leader - 50ppm
WS5, BS3, S4, T4, W2, I6, A3, Ld10, Save 3+

Rules
Fleet, Hit & Run, Move Through Cover, Stealth, Stubborn
Special Ability
Harmonic Distortion - Vespid can produce deafening song, see Terra cicadas x10, that they can modulate to various frequencies. Allows Vespid to strike at initiative when charging through terrain. When Vespid are being charged, the charging unit suffers d6" penalty to their charge. This is rolled after the charging unit rolls for a successful charge. The charging unit cannot use fleet to circumvent this rule.
Weapons
Neutron Blaster 18" Str 5, Ap3, Assault 3
Stinger - Melee Str *, Ap 5 *Poisoned - always wounds on a 3+, Neurotoxin Each wound roll of 6 causes 2 wounds
Defensive Grenades

Hellions:
Gain Jink
+1A
Hellglaives are AP4
Can use Jet Packs in both movement and assault
Stun Claw get's it's 5th ed rules back

Wyches:
+1A
WS5
Dodge works in the full Assault Phase

Voidraven:
40pts cheaper
Shatterfield Missiles as standard
Void Mine becomes Strength D

Rough Riders, Ratlings, and Commissars
Press "Delete" on the entries.
Fixed!

Bonus Round!:
Auto-Targeting System added back to Hydras(Cover Saves granted by Jink cannot be taken against shots from a Hydra Autocannon; additionally Flyers, Skimmers, and FMCs(and their Gargantuan/Super Heavy variants) cannot move Flat Out when a successful hit is made by a Hydra Autocannon) and Hydra Autocannon is granted the "Wall of Flak" rule(Each successful hit causes a small Blast with centered on the target, causing a S7 AP4 Wound).

Leman Russ variants regain "Lumbering Behemoth" allowing them to fire Ordnance and not have to snap fire Sponson, Hull mounted, or Pintle mounted weapons.

All Sentinel variants gain the "Auspex Tracking" rule:

Auspex Tracking: At the start of each Movement phase, the Sentinel pings its Auspex Trackers before moving. Any enemy unit within 12" of a Sentinel that has pinged its Auspex Trackers suffers a -1 to its Cover Save for the duration of the game turn.

Land Raiders: make them 175 pts, give them dozer blade

Tac terminators: remove them from inventory so no one accidentally ever uses them. Unsalvageable under current rules system. They are the ultimate trap unit.

Tycho: give him some real command benefits as he is on foot.

Daemons:

Fiends of Slaanesh now have 5 attacks and Str 5 (just like 5th ed).

Juggernauts grant a 3+ Armour save to Bloodcrusher and Heralds. It makes no sense that a giant metal Rhinoceros have less armour than a giant naked Wolf

Exalted Flamer has the Jet-pack unit type, so that is can keep up with normal Flamers and be able to actually shoot it weapons

-

 Kanluwen wrote:
Rough Riders, Ratlings, and Commissars
Press "Delete" on the entries.
Fixed!

I'm with you on Rough Riders, but not with Ratlings and Commissars.

To make Ratlings better, give them camo gear and snare mines for free, the option to buy a vox caster, and some sort of unit leader.

Commissars could stand to have more wounds (2) and maybe Aura of Discipline as standard (to make them a viable alternative to priests). Lord Commissars should have Voice Of Command as standard, and maybe a points decrease too.

Ordinary ogyrns need to be made cheaper and repurposed as a shooty unit. Increase the range of ripper guns to 24" and slash their cost down.

Commissars and Lord Commissars are being pushed heavily in Militarum Tempestus; leave them there. It's not like you cannot ally them in.

Ratlings are trash, have been trash, and will always be trash. There's no fixing them--especially not when they also hold back Guardsmen from getting dedicated sniper teams.

Funny, cause I'd delete the ratlings but keep the rough riders. I think rough riders just need to become generic IG bikers like other factions. That way you can model them as you please (exo-skeletons, segways, horses, bikes, you name it) but they'd all be faster versions of the basic guardsmen, exactly like how marines have their bikers, Eldar have their jetbikers, and so on.

Kan doesn't like the concept of Commissars, but whatever, they're not going away as they're pretty ingrained in IG fluff and much liked by most of the IG players I've met online and in real life. They could use a small buff, but are otherwise pretty fine for what they are. The issue is that the Priest does much the same thing with a few more benefits.

IG need a few fixes for a number of units. I like Kan's idea for Sentinels, I'd also be happy with making them permanently like they are in the one formation where you can designate a platoon commander who can issue orders.

Most of the needed buffs are obvious and just re-gaining rules IG have lost. As mentioned, Hydras with Auto-targeting, and Russes with LB. Hellhounds need a price drop and some kind of rule to make them a little more deadly, like Shred or causing multiple wounds against MCs. Ogryn need a price drop, a survivability buff, and a delivery method.

 Imateria wrote:
Hellions:
Gain Jink
+1A
Hellglaives are AP4
Can use Jet Packs in both movement and assault
Stun Claw get's it's 5th ed rules back

Wyches:
+1A
WS5
Dodge works in the full Assault Phase

Voidraven:
40pts cheaper
Shatterfield Missiles as standard
Void Mine becomes Strength D

I like these. My own approach might be something like this:

Wyches:
*Gain dodge against overwatch
*Fix the combat drug table to exclude bad options. No +1 PFP, +1 Initiative, or +1 Leadership. Either replace those with better options or simply make it a d3 chart.
*Give the hekatrix access to better wargear options. I miss my cheap venom blades, for instance, and a power lance (preferably at no more than 10 points) would fit this unit pretty well.
*Make wych weapons useful again. Shardnets should make the unit good at tarpitting (force enemies to reroll to-hit rolls? Reduce number of attacks?). Hydra gauntlets should be where those necessary bonus attacks come from. 5th edition razor flails were probably fine where they were at, though I feel they step on hydra gauntlets' toes in most situations.
Reasoning: Rather than simply bumping up their profile, this method makes existing-but-overlooked options useful again. Rather than WS5 and +1A, you just increase the likelihood of getting those things from the drug table and make wych weapons useful. This also indirectly helps bloodbrides. Making wych weapons better makes their increased number of wych weapons more useful.

You're spot on with the hellions. I can't really comment on the voidraven. I have a long list of things I'd like to change about various units, but most of them don't really qualify as our "worst" units, so I'll refrain.

 Blacksails wrote:
Funny, cause I'd delete the ratlings but keep the rough riders. I think rough riders just need to become generic IG bikers like other factions. That way you can model them as you please (exo-skeletons, segways, horses, bikes, you name it) but they'd all be faster versions of the basic guardsmen, exactly like how marines have their bikers, Eldar have their jetbikers, and so on.

Truthfully, Guard squads on bikes etc just don't work. It's the same issue I have with Infinity the game and bikers there: They feel jammed in when we're talking about the concepts being discussed.

I'd much rather see a kind of pseudo-skirmisher squad, infiltrators and counter-infiltrators rolled into one. Give them a big bag of dirty tricks like Snare Mines or the ability to trap up terrain and call it a day.

Kan doesn't like the concept of Commissars, but whatever, they're not going away as they're pretty ingrained in IG fluff and much liked by most of the IG players I've met online and in real life. They could use a small buff, but are otherwise pretty fine for what they are. The issue is that the Priest does much the same thing with a few more benefits.

The funny part is that as ingrained as they are in fluff, they've been making it exceedingly clear in fluff as well that Cadians(aka the flagship army at the moment) don't necessarily utilize them--with the actual Cadian officers being trained in the necessary disciplinary tactics.

I get that people like that, but it's not even the concept that I dislike. They just feel wildly out of place for the Cadians who GW seems to be pushing more and more. For Steel Legion, who have large numbers of volunteers/gangers pressed into service and the like?
Awesome, they fit great there. Same with Valhallans.

IG need a few fixes for a number of units. I like Kan's idea for Sentinels, I'd also be happy with making them permanently like they are in the one formation where you can designate a platoon commander who can issue orders.

Heh. I've been saying for awhile that Sentinels should get a character and/or a "Sentinel Ace" profile.

Sentinels could take over from rough riders as the Calvary units. Increase their speed by 6 inches somehow.

Shining Spears: Gain a close combat weapon,pistol, power sword. Pretty much anything to give an extra attack.
Add Hit and Run.
Possibly replace their move for cover rule with automatically pass Initiative tests or something similar.

Orks:

Killa Kanz:
-From Heavy to Elite
-From Kan klaw to DCCW

Dorkanaut:
-From Heavy to Superheavy
-Add Assault Transport USR
-Increase xport capacity to 10.

Any one of the 3:
Zagstrukk or Snikrot
-Allow assault from Reserves. No other ICs may join.

Flash Git Gun:
S=6+d3
AP= d3 (same roll)
Rapid Fire = 24"

These all seem reasonable ways to bring balance back tothe force.

Orks. Hmm....3 units?

OK.

Units with ST3, make ST4.

Characters with LD7 make LD8.

Units with Mob Rule: Make Fearless.

There. "3" units.

Bring back the option to buy USR's for CSM (and chosen) units

Make dreadnoughts T8 3+ save monstrous creatures. I wouldn't be against raising the cost of them for that

Make Thousand Sons 20ppm, allow them to take special weapons and have the starting cost of the unit at 120 points or something. I don't know how viable that would make them but it's a big improvement

 Snake Tortoise wrote:
Bring back the option to buy USR's for CSM (and chosen) units

Make dreadnoughts T8 3+ save monstrous creatures. I wouldn't be against raising the cost of them for that

Make Thousand Sons 20ppm, allow them to take special weapons and have the starting cost of the unit at 120 points or something. I don't know how viable that would make them but it's a big improvement

Why make Dreadnoughts specifically the MC?

What would be the 3 worst units in the Ork codex? I honestly don't know.....SO much of our codex is trash.

 JimOnMars wrote:
Orks. Hmm....3 units?

OK.

Units with ST3, make ST4.

Characters with LD7 make LD8.

Units with Mob Rule: Make Fearless.

There. "3" units.

I don't play Orks, but I can agree with all that. Mob rule is confusing and unnecessary, but if you change it to Fearless, what is the point of bumping LD on those characters?
What about this:
-Orks with ST3, make ST4.
-Characters with LD7 make LD8.
-Mob Rule goes back to the old "units consisting of 11+ models have Fearless"

-

@doktor_g, JimOnMars, SemperMortis, Galef

Just gonna throw this out here...

Grey Knights:

purgation squads - gain slow and purposeful as well as a unique psychic power that is like the old harlequin veil of tears.

paladins - price drop, simple, easy

all PAGKs get their old "true grit" special rule back. also all nemesis greatswords get the "smash" special rule.

 Renesco P. Blue wrote:
Grey Knights:

purgation squads - gain slow and purposeful as well as a unique psychic power that is like the old harlequin veil of tears.

paladins - price drop, simple, easy

all PAGKs get their old "true grit" special rule back. also all nemesis greatswords get the "smash" special rule.

-Purgation squad- I love the idea of SnP, but not sure the VoT power would be needed
-Paladins- only make them 5 ppm cheaper but have the Apothecary built into the base unit for free.
-Nemesis Greatsword- only available on the DK which already has 'smash', so I assume you mean the regular Nemesis sword in which that would be too strong

-

Nemesis greatsword should be Str D when charged with "force" psychic power. That makes a real choice between the weapon and the increased save.

 Dr. Zoidbork wrote:
@doktor_g, JimOnMars, SemperMortis, Galef

Just gonna throw this out here...

I love your enthusiasm and determination hahah.

Space Marines
Tac Terminators
- T6
- Storm Bolters upped to Assault 3

Assault Marines
- Chainswords upped to +1 Strength, AP5
- The Sergeant should have access to a Storm Shield.

Land Raider
- Gains the Venerable rule
- Auto-passes terrain tests (like Vindicator)
- Combine all the variants into one, with a 16 troop capacity and totally customizable weapon options

Martel732 wrote:
Nemesis greatsword should be Str D when charged with "force" psychic power. That makes a real choice between the weapon and the increased save.

In theme, I like this. But in practice it would thrust the DK into Riptide/WK territory of OP. I'd prefer the DK to stay under that radar.

Martel732 wrote:
Nemesis greatsword should be Str D when charged with "force" psychic power. That makes a real choice between the weapon and the increased save.

That might be a little too much, I love it but... just a little too much.


Anyway my fixes

PAGK: ALL gain +1 attack
Paladins: ML2, Eternal Warrior, 5ppm drop OR Eternal Warrior, Iron Halo, 5ppm drop
Brother-Captain: 25 point drop, upgrade into Grand Master is now 60 points: you gain Eternal Warrior +1 wound for a total of 4.

Relic Change: Relic Halberd becomes AP2 - 40 points total

 DanielBeaver wrote:
Space Marines
Tac Terminators
- T6
- Storm Bolters upped to Assault 3

Assault Marines
- Chainswords upped to +1 Strength, AP5
- The Sergeant should have access to a Storm Shield.

Land Raider
- Gains the Venerable rule
- Auto-passes terrain tests (like Vindicator)
- Combine all the variants into one, with a 16 troop capacity and totally customizable weapon options

I like these. Especially the land raider ideas.

Chaos:

Warp Talons:

Warpflame Strike becomes all units within 12" of the unit fire snapshots at them the turn they deepstrike, and immunity to Interceptor. Give them assault grenades/equivalent.

Land Raider: Either gain the Infernal Device rule, or drop the twin-linked lascannons and drop its price (leaving Godhammer and Infernal Device as optional upgrades.)

Mutilators: Where to start? Lose SnP, gain Rampage and an additional attack would go a long way.

General rule fix: any units with the Daemon USR that may also take a Mark of Chaos gain the Daemon of X rule where X is the Mark alignment.

Deathwing.
35pts per model
DW knights 50pts per model 2 wounds.
DW devs, all armed with cyclones, HF, plasma cannons, assault cannons or multi meltas, 35pts per model, upgrades cost usual.
DW fast attack unit, once per game may be removed from table and DS back on same turn.

Ork Boyz

Str 4 instead of 3
Still get furious charge
Can swap slugga/choppa for shoota for free.
Can take both slugga/choppa and shoota for 1ppm.
FNP 6+

This makes boyz a tiny bit more survivable with just the 6+ t-shirt save. It also makes them actually frightening in squads of 12 on the charge since they're hitting at S5. Gives more options as well.

Nobz
Changed to 15 ppm. Come with 4+ standard, as well as the FNP 6+.
Powerklaws in general reduced to 15 points.

Gorkanaut/Morkanaut
Become superheavy.

Tyranids

Pyrovores gain torrent

Delete skyslasher swarms and add the option to regular ripper swarms at 2ppm

Give Any synapse creature Psudo Eternal warrior: whenever they are hit by an attack that would cause instant death instead they take 2 wounds.

Reduce cost of Tyranid Prime by 20 pts and give a wing option (to make it a jump unit like shrikes) for 10 pts

Blood Angels:

Sanguinary guard: choose jet or jump at start of turn, 1d6 scatter, +1S to encarmine blades, fear included. Also offer sanguine jump pack as wargear option for IC's.

Baal Predator: if with flamer sponsons then sacrifice firing 1 for torrent 6" and 2 for Torrent 12" to the flamestorm cannon.

Furioso Librarian: starts Psy lavel 2, 1 per army can get lvl 3, force weapon gets specialist weapon, can take magna grapple and frag cannon, add 1 to list of archangels hq.

That's 3 unit's that we would maybe now consider taking.

 Galef wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Nemesis greatsword should be Str D when charged with "force" psychic power. That makes a real choice between the weapon and the increased save.

In theme, I like this. But in practice it would thrust the DK into Riptide/WK territory of OP. I'd prefer the DK to stay under that radar.

It's still melee, not ranged D. It would still take a while to chop through TWC or Wraiths. I think it fits fine in 7th ed. The Tau are still never going to be charged because they will shoot it off the table.

I don't understand the reasoning for higher wound/toughness terminators. I mean isn't that what a centurion is?

You can have your 2 wound toughness 6 terminator when my Meganobz get relentless instead of slow and purp., a 5+ invlun for free, deep strike, and more weapon options. Heck I'll even take stupid ork rules that kill my unit for some of those.

Killa Kanz
-remove cowardly grots rule
-DCCWs again please

Weirdboy
-5+ invuln save
-biomancy as an option seems fitting

Flash Gitz
-eavy armor base, as all nobs should
-36" range guns. Whats the point of gitfindas if you have a 24" range gun? you'll need a transport or be running every turn to get in range. Just bad design tbh.

 Quickjager wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Nemesis greatsword should be Str D when charged with "force" psychic power. That makes a real choice between the weapon and the increased save.

That might be a little too much, I love it but... just a little too much.


Anyway my fixes

PAGK: ALL gain +1 attack
Paladins: ML2, Eternal Warrior, 5ppm drop OR Eternal Warrior, Iron Halo, 5ppm drop
Brother-Captain: 25 point drop, upgrade into Grand Master is now 60 points: you gain Eternal Warrior +1 wound for a total of 4.

Relic Change: Relic Halberd becomes AP2 - 40 points total

Why too much? It's 7th ed. The Eldar gak out D like it's going out of style. But a D melee weapon? Stop the presses!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Terminators are mathematically hopeless as a T4 W1 model. However, they can't be justifiably anything else. So, they're hopeless. This problem plagues most of C:BA, as well. The game has moved on from T4 W1 3+ models.

Martel732 wrote:

 Quickjager wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Nemesis greatsword should be Str D when charged with "force" psychic power. That makes a real choice between the weapon and the increased save.

That might be a little too much, I love it but... just a little too much.


Anyway my fixes

PAGK: ALL gain +1 attack
Paladins: ML2, Eternal Warrior, 5ppm drop OR Eternal Warrior, Iron Halo, 5ppm drop
Brother-Captain: 25 point drop, upgrade into Grand Master is now 60 points: you gain Eternal Warrior +1 wound for a total of 4.

Relic Change: Relic Halberd becomes AP2 - 40 points total

Why too much? It's 7th ed. The Eldar gak out D like it's going out of style. But a D melee weapon? Stop the presses!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Terminators are mathematically hopeless as a T4 W1 model. However, they can't be justifiably anything else. So, they're hopeless. This problem plagues most of C:BA, as well. The game has moved on from T4 W1 3+ models.

I think 7th ed has completely lost it's mind is more correct. The game doesn't need to be scaled up to stupidity. It needs a fresh start with a normal usable baseline. Joining the team in charge of your army and going "feth it, you wanna get crazy! Lets get crazy!" Is just idiotic.n ids have 0 access to str d weapons. I wouldn't evwn request that the exocrine get its biolasmic canon get moved up to d. I would suggest the biotitan get it though. That seams like a reasonable baseline.

Martel732 wrote:

 Quickjager wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Nemesis greatsword should be Str D when charged with "force" psychic power. That makes a real choice between the weapon and the increased save.

That might be a little too much, I love it but... just a little too much.


Anyway my fixes

PAGK: ALL gain +1 attack
Paladins: ML2, Eternal Warrior, 5ppm drop OR Eternal Warrior, Iron Halo, 5ppm drop
Brother-Captain: 25 point drop, upgrade into Grand Master is now 60 points: you gain Eternal Warrior +1 wound for a total of 4.

Relic Change: Relic Halberd becomes AP2 - 40 points total

Why too much? It's 7th ed. The Eldar gak out D like it's going out of style. But a D melee weapon? Stop the presses!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Terminators are mathematically hopeless as a T4 W1 model. However, they can't be justifiably anything else. So, they're hopeless. This problem plagues most of C:BA, as well. The game has moved on from T4 W1 3+ models.

Because I have confidence that I can be a good player without a MC D-weapon crutch unlike some xenos armies. This IS a thread about the worst units in a codex not the best afterall.

You need D to engage some of the units in the game now. That's just the reality.

There's been dozens of terminator threads that have all been failures. I declare terminators the ultimate hopeless BA failure unit.

-Warbozz.
*Add ork storm shield to options

-MANZ
* add ork storm shield to options
* make them Ld8

-Loota's
*Back to elite
*Give the mek the Bosspole option
*Give them an option to buy a slotless debree (modeled as loot) fortification
*Looted wagons as dedicated transport


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or if you want to buff the unused units in the codex.

Burna's
*Give them a Nob option
*Allow them to buy 3 slotless promethium fuel drumms that have to be moved together with the unit the same was as the relic.


Skorcha's
Give them torrent

Pain bozz.
* Drop them to 25 points
* Make them IG style regimental advisors
* Allow them to take a power klaw ( The model is even modeled with a powr klaw :\ )

 Lance845 wrote:

 Dr. Zoidbork wrote:
@doktor_g, JimOnMars, SemperMortis, Galef

Just gonna throw this out here...

I love your enthusiasm and determination hahah.

Yeah, kind of a cheek to keep on advertising COR, but honestly it's better than any other answer I could give here (even if it's quite a lot more than 3 units), especially considering the utter failure that is the official Ork dex.

Martel732 wrote:
Land Raiders: make them 175 pts, give them dozer blade

Tac terminators: remove them from inventory so no one accidentally ever uses them. Unsalvageable under current rules system. They are the ultimate trap unit.

Tycho: give him some real command benefits as he is on foot.

Dozer blade sure, but 175pt LR is pushing it. And Tactical Terminators aren't unsalvageable, make upgrade guns 0-2 regardless of squad size and start them at 30ppm with a power weapon, option to upgrade to a power fist/chainfist.


It's not like the Eldar need the help, but there are some internal points I can dissect a bit:

Vyper: +1 jink (from a formation, if necessary). Right now there's no good reason to have one over a War Walker (40pts for one gun on a Fast Skimmer body that has to take Dangerous Terrain tests, versus 60pts for two guns on a Walker body that can move-shoot-move, has Scout, and has a 5++ isn't a hard decision), if you plan them around seeking better arcs on enemy vehicles and build their rules around surviving after a shot from an exposed position they'd have a role of their own.

Rangers: Either overhaul the Sniper rule or don't force them to take long rifles. Rangers with shuriken catapults and the option for a fusion gun are suddenly a forward threat people would care about.

Illic: Use his model to proxy as a Vindicare and keep him more than 12" from the rest of your troops and he's dramatically more durable and a better sniper to boot. If we're trying to make him something other than a copy-paste of the Vindicare rules I'd say give his rifle Fleshbane and Haywire over what it's got now. Other approach is to overhaul him and Rangers in general for better close-in fighting so Walker of the Hidden Path actually does something.

Dark Angels

Land Speeder Vengeance
-reduce cost to 100 pts from 125 pts
-allow it to Jink and still fire it's plasma blast template

Nephilim Jetfighter
- Make Blacksword missiles Str. 8 from Str. 7
- Make Avenger Gatling Cannon Str. 7 Ap.3 instead of Str. 6 Ap.4

Sammael
Reduce cost from 200 pts to 150 pts

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Dark Angels

Land Speeder Vengeance
-reduce cost to 100 pts from 125 pts
-allow it to Jink and still fire it's plasma blast template

Nephilim Jetfighter
- Make Blacksword missiles Str. 8 from Str. 7
- Make Avenger Gatling Cannon Str. 7 Ap.3 instead of Str. 6 Ap.4

Sammael
Reduce cost from 200 pts to 150 pts

I might suggest letting the Vengeance ignore or mitigate Gets Hot!, the problem of rolling a 1 and dropping half your hull points remains.

The Nephilim could probably stand a drop to 150-160pts on internal balance, too, but my practice of comparing it to models with a similar role unfortunately has me comparing it to the notoriously undercosted Fire Raptor.

In this thread, someone wants Sammael to be 150 points. NOW I've seen everything.

Sammael is very overcosted for what he provides, I don't even bother running him in my Ravenwing lists and he is now a 60 dollar paperweight.

He's got EW and an AP2 Master Crafted Sword. That's pretty damn good stuff and when you incorporate the other Ravenwing benefits there's no reason to use another Company Master over him.

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Sammael is very overcosted for what he provides, I don't even bother running him in my Ravenwing lists and he is now a 60 dollar paperweight.

Slightly, maybe. Very, not a chance. My guess based on the cost to give other characters the stuff he's got produces a range of 190-240pts for a 'fair cost', though I'm inclined to be generous on that front because if you were building a high-end bike character from the options presented you'd spring for the artificer armour and storm shield first thing.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
He's got EW and an AP2 Master Crafted Sword. That's pretty damn good stuff and when you incorporate the other Ravenwing benefits there's no reason to use another Company Master over him.

Sammael is really not worth it. The sword is bad and EW isn't amazing on T5. I agree the above price drop is over the top though.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
He's got EW and an AP2 Master Crafted Sword. That's pretty damn good stuff and when you incorporate the other Ravenwing benefits there's no reason to use another Company Master over him.

If you're running on a budget, want 2+/3++, or want to try for a more useful Warlord Trait. Not a lot of reasons, but they exist.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Land Raiders: make them 175 pts, give them dozer blade

Tac terminators: remove them from inventory so no one accidentally ever uses them. Unsalvageable under current rules system. They are the ultimate trap unit.

Tycho: give him some real command benefits as he is on foot.

Dozer blade sure, but 175pt LR is pushing it. And Tactical Terminators aren't unsalvageable, make upgrade guns 0-2 regardless of squad size and start them at 30ppm with a power weapon, option to upgrade to a power fist/chainfist.


It's not like the Eldar need the help, but there are some internal points I can dissect a bit:

Vyper: +1 jink (from a formation, if necessary). Right now there's no good reason to have one over a War Walker (40pts for one gun on a Fast Skimmer body that has to take Dangerous Terrain tests, versus 60pts for two guns on a Walker body that can move-shoot-move, has Scout, and has a 5++ isn't a hard decision), if you plan them around seeking better arcs on enemy vehicles and build their rules around surviving after a shot from an exposed position they'd have a role of their own.

Rangers: Either overhaul the Sniper rule or don't force them to take long rifles. Rangers with shuriken catapults and the option for a fusion gun are suddenly a forward threat people would care about.

Illic: Use his model to proxy as a Vindicare and keep him more than 12" from the rest of your troops and he's dramatically more durable and a better sniper to boot. If we're trying to make him something other than a copy-paste of the Vindicare rules I'd say give his rifle Fleshbane and Haywire over what it's got now. Other approach is to overhaul him and Rangers in general for better close-in fighting so Walker of the Hidden Path actually does something.

Note: I still wouldn't pay 175 for the LR. I still wouldn't take a tac terminator under your proposal. Their heavy weapon choices aren't worth the damn points, so giving them two is meaningless.

pm713 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
He's got EW and an AP2 Master Crafted Sword. That's pretty damn good stuff and when you incorporate the other Ravenwing benefits there's no reason to use another Company Master over him.

Sammael is really not worth it. The sword is bad and EW isn't amazing on T5. I agree the above price drop is over the top though.

If EW weren't amazing on T5, nobody would spam EW Chapter Masters on bikes and be content with the T5 + 6+++/IWND. He has:
1. EW with:
2. Rerolling Jink to tank shots
3. Hit And Run
4. 4 attacks at AP2 I5, which allows him to better hit squads while you throw someone else at possible challenges.

There's a TON of utility in what he brings. It's one of the only things I want from that codex.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
He's got EW and an AP2 Master Crafted Sword. That's pretty damn good stuff and when you incorporate the other Ravenwing benefits there's no reason to use another Company Master over him.

Sammael is really not worth it. The sword is bad and EW isn't amazing on T5. I agree the above price drop is over the top though.

If EW weren't amazing on T5, nobody would spam EW Chapter Masters on bikes and be content with the T5 + 6+++/IWND. He has:
1. EW with:
2. Rerolling Jink to tank shots
3. Hit And Run
4. 4 attacks at AP2 I5, which allows him to better hit squads while you throw someone else at possible challenges.

There's a TON of utility in what he brings. It's one of the only things I want from that codex.

1. I said it isn't amazing and it's not. This is different to not being good.
2. Jink kills your shooting and I could Jink without Sammael.
3. In a fast shooting army I'm not hugely concerned but it isn't bad.
4. With S4 so it isn't fabulous and any invuls shut it down completely.

I don't think he's worth 200 points really.

pm713 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
He's got EW and an AP2 Master Crafted Sword. That's pretty damn good stuff and when you incorporate the other Ravenwing benefits there's no reason to use another Company Master over him.

Sammael is really not worth it. The sword is bad and EW isn't amazing on T5. I agree the above price drop is over the top though.

If EW weren't amazing on T5, nobody would spam EW Chapter Masters on bikes and be content with the T5 + 6+++/IWND. He has:
1. EW with:
2. Rerolling Jink to tank shots
3. Hit And Run
4. 4 attacks at AP2 I5, which allows him to better hit squads while you throw someone else at possible challenges.

There's a TON of utility in what he brings. It's one of the only things I want from that codex.

1. I said it isn't amazing and it's not. This is different to not being good.
2. Jink kills your shooting and I could Jink without Sammael.
3. In a fast shooting army I'm not hugely concerned but it isn't bad.
4. With S4 so it isn't fabulous and any invuls shut it down completely.

I don't think he's worth 200 points really.

1. Fair enough.
2. You're hardly shooting. The Plasma Cannon is honestly just a bonus at that point when you're not.
3. I am very aggressive with Bikers in Vanilla Marines and I charge with them all the time. In a dedicated melee squad it is necessary.
4. Invulnerable Saves shut down any AP2. He's a character that you don't have challenge so he can go after other goobers effectively. Not that he's bad at challenges because of EW.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
He's got EW and an AP2 Master Crafted Sword. That's pretty damn good stuff and when you incorporate the other Ravenwing benefits there's no reason to use another Company Master over him.

Sammael is really not worth it. The sword is bad and EW isn't amazing on T5. I agree the above price drop is over the top though.

If EW weren't amazing on T5, nobody would spam EW Chapter Masters on bikes and be content with the T5 + 6+++/IWND. He has:
1. EW with:
2. Rerolling Jink to tank shots
3. Hit And Run
4. 4 attacks at AP2 I5, which allows him to better hit squads while you throw someone else at possible challenges.

There's a TON of utility in what he brings. It's one of the only things I want from that codex.

1. I said it isn't amazing and it's not. This is different to not being good.
2. Jink kills your shooting and I could Jink without Sammael.
3. In a fast shooting army I'm not hugely concerned but it isn't bad.
4. With S4 so it isn't fabulous and any invuls shut it down completely.

I don't think he's worth 200 points really.

1. Fair enough.
2. You're hardly shooting. The Plasma Cannon is honestly just a bonus at that point when you're not.
3. I am very aggressive with Bikers in Vanilla Marines and I charge with them all the time. In a dedicated melee squad it is necessary.
4. Invulnerable Saves shut down any AP2. He's a character that you don't have challenge so he can go after other goobers effectively. Not that he's bad at challenges because of EW.

1. I prefer having the plasma cannon shot to not having it.
2. That's you. I tend to shoot and only charge to tarpit or when I know I'll win.
3. Not really. A S8 AP2 weapon is better because it does more wounds and they matter more.

Storm bolters become salvo 2/4 or even 3/5
As well as additional armour plating terminator armour incorporates more powerful stimm injectors, coagulants etc which gives 4 or 5+ feel no pain
Give more heavy weapon choices, the multi melta could fit fluff wise especially if it ever gets blast back.
Ap3 on the heavy flamer?
That might sort tactical terminators?

Chainswords get ap4 plus an additional attack in combat, the chainsword is the main close combat weapon of the astartes, each of them has practised its use for decades, sometimes centuries, the skills learnt grant an additional attack
Assault Marines fixed? Add shred if not

Heavy bolters get upped to heavy 5, might then see them on the table in units that can take them, maybe a full on heavy bolter dev squad?

Tyranids.
Genestealers, Hermagaunts and Termagaunts.

1. Genestealers and all Gaunts unit type changes to Beasts.
2. Genestealers and Hermagaunts get Bounding Lope.

I'd love to add some actual saves as well but I think that's pushing it on melee units that can potentially cover 30' on the first turn.

Don't Hormagaunts already have the Bounding Lope rule?

Radu Lykan wrote:
Storm bolters become salvo 2/4 or even 3/5
As well as additional armour plating terminator armour incorporates more powerful stimm injectors, coagulants etc which gives 4 or 5+ feel no pain
Give more heavy weapon choices, the multi melta could fit fluff wise especially if it ever gets blast back.
Ap3 on the heavy flamer?
That might sort tactical terminators?

Chainswords get ap4 plus an additional attack in combat, the chainsword is the main close combat weapon of the astartes, each of them has practised its use for decades, sometimes centuries, the skills learnt grant an additional attack
Assault Marines fixed? Add shred if not

Heavy bolters get upped to heavy 5, might then see them on the table in units that can take them, maybe a full on heavy bolter dev squad?

It's its own thread.

pm713 wrote:
Don't Hormagaunts already have the Bounding Lope rule?

Hormagaunts, it's been so long since I bothered with the Tyranid codex I can't even remember how to spell their names...shameful...they have Bounding Leap - Gives them fleet which lets them re-roll runs and charges.
Bounding Lope is only found on Wulfen, lets them run and charge.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Don't Hormagaunts already have the Bounding Lope rule?

Hormagaunts, it's been so long since I bothered with the Tyranid codex I can't even remember how to spell their names...shameful...they have Bounding Leap - Gives them fleet which lets them re-roll runs and charges.
Bounding Lope is only found on Wulfen, lets them run and charge.

In my defence they're very similar names and I haven't looked at my Tyranid codex in months. There's something like three rules for run and charge now. Wulfen are such a mess for such a simple idea.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Tyranids.
Genestealers, Hermagaunts and Termagaunts.

1. Genestealers and all Gaunts unit type changes to Beasts.
2. Genestealers and Hermagaunts get Bounding Lope.

I'd love to add some actual saves as well but I think that's pushing it on melee units that can potentially cover 30' on the first turn.

These are not really feasible changes without some other wide spread changes. How are you going to keep these guys in synapse? (Not a problem for the genestealers but a major problem for the gaunts and gants).

pm713 wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Don't Hormagaunts already have the Bounding Lope rule?

Hormagaunts, it's been so long since I bothered with the Tyranid codex I can't even remember how to spell their names...shameful...they have Bounding Leap - Gives them fleet which lets them re-roll runs and charges.
Bounding Lope is only found on Wulfen, lets them run and charge.

In my defence they're very similar names and I haven't looked at my Tyranid codex in months. There's something like three rules for run and charge now. Wulfen are such a mess for such a simple idea.

I'm not judging, somehow I managed to convince myself that Cunning of the Wolf was Obj Sec for troops and choosing what comes in from reserves. Wulfen are actually pretty simple once you get some practice rounds in with them, non-Space Wolf opponents find them to be unholy and random like Chaos should be. Which sits just fine with me.

Lance845 wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Tyranids.
Genestealers, Hermagaunts and Termagaunts.

1. Genestealers and all Gaunts unit type changes to Beasts.
2. Genestealers and Hermagaunts get Bounding Lope.

I'd love to add some actual saves as well but I think that's pushing it on melee units that can potentially cover 30' on the first turn.

These are not really feasible changes without some other wide spread changes. How are you going to keep these guys in synapse? (Not a problem for the genestealers but a major problem for the gaunts and gants).

If I can keep TWC in 12' range of a foot slogging Wolf Lord to use 'For Glory For Russ!' and keep Wulfen within 6' boost range of my units surely a regular Tyranid Player can keep their 12' 18' and 24' Synapse critters in range. The only time they'd struggle is when they try to hide their Synapse creatures at the back...like a sook.

Orks

Gorkamaunt - Super heavy without stomp (its little booties can't raise up enough), 5+ invuln.
Morkanaut- Super heavy without stomp, 5+ invuln
Kommandos - 9ppm, Burna is a 5 point upgrade, can charge the turn they arrive via outflank.

Edit: Wow I completely blanked on remembering the horrible treatment Killa Kanz got in 7th. 40ppm, Grotzookas are a 10 point upgrade but increased to 21" range, remove cowardly grot rule because its a freaking vehicle so why is it scared? 5+ invuln (all ork vehicles imo should have 5+ invuln due to the ramshackle nature of their tech having a chance to just ignore the damage done to it).

Tau
Kroot - 2 attacks base, base weapon profile is assault, stealth (not just forests), furious charge, FNP with shaper.

The Tau Bomber (Sun Shark?) - Bomb becomes an Ion Bomb that is Str 7 AP3 large blast. Point defense system that can be activated against 1 unit's shooting attacks granting a 4+ invuln save against shots from that unit.

Vespids - Assault 2, At the beginning of the movement phase it can choose to act as Jump or Jet infantry for the remainder of the player turn.

Bonus: Darkstrider - 50 points

Eldar

Howling Banshee's - something to mess with enemy shooting like the Harley Veil of Tears if they move and run but don't shoot

Vypers - make double S-Cannon the stock loadout, give them a 6" move in the Assault phase, puts them more on par with the War Walker

Rangers, either fix Sniper or give them the option of S-Catapults or Lasblasters


Also knock about 50 or so points off each Phoenix Lord

Howling Banshees :
- Furious Charge as per standard (seriously for a unit that is all about a 'furious charge' the lack of it on their rules is upsetting to say the least)
- From turn 2 onward units comprising of all models with the Acrobatic rule can run and charge - doesn't slingshot other characters into combat (minus Mrs Zarr) and helps with the lack of any open topped transport.

Harlequins -
- Units equipped with flip belts ignore overwatch
- Models equipped with flip belts have a 4+ invulnerable save against shooting attacks

Wraithknight- Becomes a Gargantuan Creature rather than Jump Gargantuan
- Base cost of the Wraithknight increases to 350 points
- Ghostglaive and Scattershield becomes a 50 point upgrade (400 point total)
- (Skathach Wraithknight) Deathshroud become a 25 point upgrade per weapon
- (Skathach Wraithknight) Inferno Cannon becomes a 25 point upgrade per weapon
- (Skathach Wraithknight) Scattershield becomes a 25 point upgrade
- Heavy Wraithcannons become a 100 point upgrade (450 point total)
- Scattershield grants a 4+ invulnerable save
- Killing a Wraithknight grants one additional VP

Transcendant C'Tan - 325 pts (Lord of War, Unique)

WS5 BS5 S9 T8 I4 W5 A4 LD10 Sv 3+



Annihilation Barge - 100 pts

11/11/11, Vehicle, Heavy (remove open-topped)

Special rules: Same as current

Weapons: Same as current


Other C'tans - I dunno, literally anything could make them better. Probably +1 Toughness, or more wounds, or a better armor save. Or remove it all together (for purposes of grav). And make them slightly cheaper.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Torus wrote:

- Killing a Wraithknight grants one additional VP

Or we could go back to the Escalation rules and add them to the base game, since they added GCs to the base game and took away the downsides of running them.

Every 3 wounds/Hull points on a GC or SHV is an additional VP.

ORKS:

WALKERS: All walkers gain the Ere We Go special rule, All ork walkers can now move 12 inches AND shoot/assault as normal. All Ork walkers reduced in price by 35%ish. (Killa Kanz go from 50ppm to 35ppm) Grotzooka becomes a Range 36 weapon. Mork/Gorkanaut remain as walkers not super heavies, but they gain a 4+invul and double the current amount of dakka. IE Morkanaut gets 2 KMK shots, and can choose to replace the stupid KMB with a Skorcha for free. Both become assault vehicles and increase troop capacity to 10 models.

INFANTRY: All boyz units gain +1 strength, all Boyz units gain LD8 if they have a nob or mek. All Boyz units can purchase Eavy armor for 2ppm. All boyz units can purchase a slotless painboy for 50pts. ALL ork models gain a 6+ FNP which when teamed with a painboy increases it to a 4+ FNP. Elite/Heavy infantry models receive a points reduction based on usefulness. Burnaboyz drop in price by 4ppm and can upgrade to become Skorcha boyz for 2ppm. Tankbustas remain the same but can purchase Eavy armor for 2ppm. Lootas stay the same price but their weapon goes from D3 to D3+1 shots. They can also purchase Git findaz for 2ppm. (Git Finda now works regardless of if you move) Kommandos receive a 4ppm drop in price and gain Shrouded special rule, they also receive a special rule that allows them to assault out of reserve/outflank/deep strike. Burna upgrade is a 5ppm upgrade and the can take up to 2. Stormboyz receive a standardized 4+ Cover save, called Exhaust cloud. When using their jump packs twice in the same phase they roll dangerous terrain HOWEVER on any roll of a 1 you then roll a further D6, on a 4+ the model is fine but fails to use his jump pack and only goes 1/2 the distance as the rest of the squad, on a 1-3 the model is removed from play no saves of any kind allowed.

Nobz units reduce base price by 33%. Regular nobz become 12ppm and Meganobz become 28ppm. Nobz come standard with Eavy armor.

That makes orks good again

Martel732 wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Land Raiders: make them 175 pts, give them dozer blade

Tac terminators: remove them from inventory so no one accidentally ever uses them. Unsalvageable under current rules system. They are the ultimate trap unit.

Tycho: give him some real command benefits as he is on foot.

Dozer blade sure, but 175pt LR is pushing it. And Tactical Terminators aren't unsalvageable, make upgrade guns 0-2 regardless of squad size and start them at 30ppm with a power weapon, option to upgrade to a power fist/chainfist.

Note: I still wouldn't pay 175 for the LR. I still wouldn't take a tac terminator under your proposal. Their heavy weapon choices aren't worth the damn points, so giving them two is meaningless.

I do try to design to the middle, I agree, and in a competitive environment neither suggestion is going to be that much help. Both units exist on an edge of the bell curve (AV14 all round and 2+ armour) where they're impossible to deal with without specialized tools to do so and entirely too easy to deal with when you do have the tools; the result makes them useless in games where someone's got an easy answer to everything (Wraithguard, say).

D weapons straight up ignoring armor is "lol wut?" I don't know what price that makes the LR.

Astra Militarum:

Rough Riders get Toughness 4 for free.

Ratling Snipers get Camo Cloaks for free.

Death Strike get it's one shot missile upgraded to Strength D

Chaos Space Marines:

Bring back the special rules for the Warsmith, (Chaos Lord/Warpsmith combo?)

Heldrake should have more than 1 weapon. 2 minimum.

Chaos Cultists can be upgraded to Renegade Imperial Guard.

Tyranids:

Hormagaunts, get an extra 6" move, don't care how it's done.

Tervigon can choose to spawn Hormagaunts instead of Termigants no points change.

Lictors get their save changed to an invulerable save.

Eldar:

No changes needed.

SYKOJAK wrote:

Eldar:

No changes needed.

Because all the Eldar are so OP.

SYKOJAK wrote:

Eldar:

No changes needed.

There's an interpretation of 'worst' that lets you make suggestions for things that need nerfing.

Chaos Daemons:

Furies get Leadership 6.
Bloodcrushers have Warpforged Armor
Exalted Flamer has Jetpack Infantry type.

No other changes to them. *drops mic*

CHAOS SPACE MARINES

1) WARP TALONS
Give their lightning claws Rending.

2) HELBRUTE
Turn into a Monstrous Creature to further differentiate it from the loyalist Dreadnought, as well as differentiate it from the codex's Daemon Engines. Remove the Crazed special rule and give it Fleet and Rage instead. Furthermore, allow it to take a Mark of Chaos.
WS 4, BS 4, S 6, T 6, W 3, I 4, A 4, Ld 10, Sv 2+

3) MUTILATORS
Replace Slow and Purposeful with Relentless.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

SYKOJAK wrote:

Eldar:

No changes needed.

There's an interpretation of 'worst' that lets you make suggestions for things that need nerfing.

There's also units that could do with being better.

Imperial guard:

Storm troopers;
-Change the name back to Storm Troopers. No more Miliwhatsit
-Reduced down to 9 PPM
-Hotshot is renamed to Hellgun
-Hellgun becomes S4
-LD is base 8, 9 with sarge
-Hellgun becomes Assault 3
-Volleygun becomes Salvo 3/6, Relentless
-Sarge has a a Hellgun
-All models have a Pistol and CCW in addition to the Hellgun
-Gain Furious Charge and Counter Attack
-Gain Outflank and Infiltrate
-Gain Stealth on first turn if they Infiltrate
-Gain Pinning on the turn they arrive if they Outflank

Ogryns/Bullgryns;
-Base save of Ogryn's increased to 4+, Bullgryns to 3+
-Ogryns gain AP4 on their close combat attacks
-Ogryns and Bullgryns gain 4+ FNP
-Bullgryns can switch their Mauls for Grenadier gauntlets without changing the shields
-The big Bullgryn shield gives a 3++ invun save
-Power Mauls can be switched for Power Axes at no extra cost
-Ogryns and Bullgryns lose Vbulky
-A new transport for them, an Assault Transport

Rough Riders;
-Carapace Armour base
-Lance is AP 2 on the charge
-Gain Counter Charge
-Can take a Shield for a 5++ invun (5 PPM)
-Lance is no longer single use
-Lance gains Shred
-Lance grants Initiative 6 on the Charge
-Gain Outflank and Scout
-Gain Furious Charge
-Have 2 Attacks each
-Gain Hit and run
-Can run 2D6 and charge

Sisters:

1) Palatine (lower level HQ than Canoness) -40 points, war gear options, AoF improves units Shield of Faith to 4+ for the remainder of either players shooting or assault phase.

2) Sisters Command Squad - equip squad each with a rozarius for 25 points (for the squad) reduce the cost of wargear to vanguard veteren levels. Allow members to be detached to other Sisters units. Celestians/Hospitallers/Dialogus each convey a different available AoF to the unit they are attached too.

3) Celestian Squad - give the squad condemnor boltguns that always wound on a 4+ and cause perils of the warp when wounding psykers.

Orks:

Walkers: 30% point decrease, more shooty, can fit more into FOC. (either by moving them out of heavy support or letting them squad up more. Yes, even the orkonaunts.)

Trukks: Make them less explodey or really cheap. 15pt transport seems good, but when it vaporizes everyone inside it seems more balanced. Alternatively a formation that lets you have them free would at least let you use them like kan walls in 6e, which is probably more effective in terms of troop protection than actually letting someone inside them.

Flash gits: Reduce cost by three points, give them a decent dedicated transport w/ open-topped, make gitfindas buff BS when snapfiring. Gun Wagons from IA8 would work. Move to elites maybe?

The point decreases across the board represent Orks being thematically a horde army. They should be able to have lots of units to fulfill any role cheaply if they can't have units that are any good at fulfilling the role very well.

Terminators:

Reduce to 25 points per model.

If taken with a Terminator Captain, can be troops.

Squad can buy 2 Heavy Weapons per five.

Squad can buy Specialist Ammo for their Stormbolters

Assault Terminators:

Same deal as above - reduce to 25 ppm.

TH/SS still cost +10 points.

Dreadnoughts:

Reduce their cost by another 20 points.

God damnit there has to be a way that's not making them MCs.

I don't know if these are the worst units in their codices, but they are missing something, and I won't list anything that cannot be taken in to account with the current kits already.

Codex: Space Marines:
- Helbrecht gains Orbital Bombardment.
- All Servitors are considered a separate unit the IC is joined to when Deployment starts.

Codex: Necrons:
- Obelisk Gravity Pulse rules changed to read like Dangerous Terrain's rules, just not considered Dangerous Terrain. Kind of like how Zealot has Fearless' rules, without actually being Fearless. Maybe up the roll to a 1 or 2 as well.
- Add Ranged Weapons to the Destroyer Lord Options.
- Transcendant C'tan renamed to just C'tan Shard, with stats to reduced to closer match Nightbringer and Deceiver.
* Other additions not specific to a unit would be:
- Change Powers of the C'tan to Rolling the Power BEFORE Selecting a Target.
- Add Particle Caster to Ranged Weapons list. If they can get a Void Blade, they can get Particle Caster.
- Staff of Light gains the following profile: Rng: Melee, Str: +1, AP: 4, Melee.
- Warscythe gains the following profile: Rng: 12", Str: 4, AP: 5, Assault 1, Gauss.
- All versions of the C'tan gain a Transcendent form upgrade. This upgrades the C'tan to Gargantuan Creature unit type, Lord of War Role, changes profile to coincide with T C'tan Escalation profile, and uses the Transcendent profile for Powers of the C'tan.

Other things could use some work, of course but I think things like the Annihilation Barge needs a kit change to really make it useful.

 Crazyterran wrote:
Terminators:

Reduce to 25 points per model.

If taken with a Terminator Captain, can be troops.

Squad can buy 2 Heavy Weapons per five.

Squad can buy Specialist Ammo for their Stormbolters

Assault Terminators:

Same deal as above - reduce to 25 ppm.

TH/SS still cost +10 points.

Dreadnoughts:

Reduce their cost by another 20 points.

God damnit there has to be a way that's not making them MCs.

Just keep making them cheaper until they get used. The ideal place is around 33%-66% of marine lists have dreadnoughts.

Martel732 wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Terminators:

Reduce to 25 points per model.

If taken with a Terminator Captain, can be troops.

Squad can buy 2 Heavy Weapons per five.

Squad can buy Specialist Ammo for their Stormbolters

Assault Terminators:

Same deal as above - reduce to 25 ppm.

TH/SS still cost +10 points.

Dreadnoughts:

Reduce their cost by another 20 points.

God damnit there has to be a way that's not making them MCs.

Just keep making them cheaper until they get used. The ideal place is around 33%-66% of marine lists have dreadnoughts.

Yes, make them Front AV 13 (what is that, the Ironclad?) That one actually sees use.

Sisters of Battle
This isn't a unit fix but it has to happen: Make Acts of Faith usable more than once per fething game.

Celestians: Give them Artificer Armor (and let it be an upgrade for the Canoness) bump them up to Initiative and Strength 4. If anyone complains say its the armor doing it.

Repentia: Get them an Assault vehicle or let them charge after Running, bump their Shield of Faith to a 5+

Penitent Engines: Drop 10 points off them, give them a 5+ invuln. They are fairly killy as they sit, they just have this annoying tendency to explode.

Blood Angels:

Land raider, aforementioned, should have maximum capacity 16 models, have sponsors to carry 2 of any heavy weapon and/or dreadnought weapon. Pintle mounted MM stays the same. Front mounted gun should be, again, any heavy weapon. Drag assault launchers. Points cost at 275 for max OP Ness.

Death Company: all weapons cost reduced to 10 ppm, gain +1 S,T,W,A.

All vehicles except Land raiders have the Fast type.

"Land raider, aforementioned, should have maximum capacity 16 models, have sponsors to carry 2 of any heavy weapon and/or dreadnought weapon. Pintle mounted MM stays the same. Front mounted gun should be, again, any heavy weapon. Drag assault launchers. Points cost at 275 for max OP Ness. "


Still useless.

DC is not one of the worst units.

For my 3 armies:
Dark Angels:
1. Asmodai: Blades of Reason gain Rending and lose Specialist Weapon. At least players could think about taking him then.
2. Nephilim Jetfighter: Reduce cost to 160 per model. Change missiles from One Use only to a S7, AP3 Heavy 4 weapon.
3. Land Speeder Vengeance: Allow rerolls to Gets Hot on plasma weapon (or remove Gets Hot from the weapon entirely), alternatively replace current firing modes with S7, AP2, Barrage 3, Blast, Gets Hot! weapon.

Tau:
1. Vespid Stingwings: Weapon becomes Assault 2 and Rending.
2. Hammerhead Gunship: Railgun becomes Strength D on a To Hit roll of 6.
3. Broadside Battlesuit with HRR: Heavy Rail Rifle gains Armorbane on a To Hit roll of 6.

Khorne Daemonkin:
1. Defiler: Becomes Superheavy Walker with 6 HP, cost increased to 220, no other changes.
2. Chaos Land Raider: Gains some equivalent of PotMS, transport capacity increased to at least 12.
3. Warp Talons: Reduce cost to 30 ppm. When they Deep Strike, enemy models may only fire Snap Shots at them until the end of your opponent's next turn.
These would also apply to CSM versions of these units.

Well, I'm super-new to the Ork side of things, but I'll pitch in!

BIG CHANGE - Mob Rule
As now, but add, "For every all-Ork unit with 10+ wounds remaining that's within 6", this unit gains +1 Leadership. Units that are LD of 11+ due to this are Fearless."

Basic Boys:
Reduce cost to 5 pts/model.
option: Scrap Armor for +1 pt each, provides a SV of 5+
'Eavy Armor at +3 pts/model for 4+ save.
Add Skarboyz option for +1 [t/model in the unit (Skarboyz are Strength 4, but lose 'Ere We Go)
Add Flama as a weapon option along with Big Shootas and Rokkits (Flama is, well, a flamer. 5 pt, doesn't do Power Weapon attack)
Option to replace basic gun with Lasgun for free. (Lootin'! Or trading with 'oomies)
option for "Kunnin'" ... reduce WS to 3 and Attacks to 1, increase BS to 3 for +1 pt/model.

TRUKKS
Add, "That was a good 'un!" ... Transported models are only wounded on a 6, rather than a 4+, when this model is destroyed.

MEK
Add "May ride a Deffkopta" for + 25 pts.

Burnaboyz, Tankbustas, and Kommandos are all reduced in cost by 1 pt, gain the Scrap and 'Eavy armor options fo +1 pt and +3pts, respectively.


...

Really, there's a lot of little fixes here. Hrm.

Wakshaani wrote:
Basic Boys:
Reduce cost to 5 pts/model.
option: Scrap Armor for +1 pt each, provides a SV of 5+
'Eavy Armor at +3 pts/model for 4+ save.
Add Skarboyz option for +1 pt/model in the unit

MEK
Add "May ride a Deffkopta" for + 25 pts.

Burnaboyz, Tankbustas, and Kommandos are all reduced in cost by 1 pt, gain the Scrap and 'Eavy armor options fo +1 pt and +3pts, respectively.

This sounds awfully familiar...

 Charistoph wrote:

Codex: Necrons:
- Obelisk Gravity Pulse rules changed to read like Dangerous Terrain's rules, just not considered Dangerous Terrain. Kind of like how Zealot has Fearless' rules, without actually being Fearless. Maybe up the roll to a 1 or 2 as well.
- Add Ranged Weapons to the Destroyer Lord Options.
- Transcendant C'tan renamed to just C'tan Shard, with stats to reduced to closer match Nightbringer and Deceiver.
* Other additions not specific to a unit would be:
- Change Powers of the C'tan to Rolling the Power BEFORE Selecting a Target.
- Add Particle Caster to Ranged Weapons list. If they can get a Void Blade, they can get Particle Caster.
- Staff of Light gains the following profile: Rng: Melee, Str: +1, AP: 4, Melee.
- Warscythe gains the following profile: Rng: 12", Str: 4, AP: 5, Assault 1, Gauss.
- All versions of the C'tan gain a Transcendent form upgrade. This upgrades the C'tan to Gargantuan Creature unit type, Lord of War Role, changes profile to coincide with T C'tan Escalation profile, and uses the Transcendent profile for Powers of the C'tan.

Other things could use some work, of course but I think things like the Annihilation Barge needs a kit change to really make it useful.

Oh man, I would love if they gave the Staff of Light a melee profile, and the Warscythe a ranged profile. Brings me back to the good ole days of DoW.

Terminators with powerfist and storm bolter or twin lightning claws is 25 pts. For regular terminators reduce the cost of upgrades that replace the storm bolter by 5 pts. Cyclone reduced by 5 pts. 2 weapons per 5. TH/SS still +10pts. Add a TH/LC option that is +5pts. Nearly the same changes as a previous post by another. Plus I would reduce the cost of all Landraiders by 75 pts and increase their troop carrying abilities by 4 troops. Term HQ makes terminators troop choices in cad or grants objective secured otherwise.

Tacticals would gain an extra special or heavy weapon (grand total of 3 weapons at 10 men). Or maybe just allow all sergeants to take a heavy or special weapon that the rest of their squads have access to in all SM units. Assault marines should still get the extra weap choice with the sergeant option.

Dreadnoughts of all types would be about 30pts less and venerable upgrade would be 5pts more expensive and give eternal warrior.

If I were fixing IH specifically there would be a lot more I'd do, though they would lose some features like would never gain Term Troops. But those kinds of changes are for a different thread.

What do you mean you'd give Venerable Dreadnoughts eternal warrior? Eternal warrior doesn't apply to them.

 NorseSig wrote:
Terminators with powerfist and storm bolter or twin lightning claws is 25 pts. For regular terminators reduce the cost of upgrades that replace the storm bolter by 5 pts. Cyclone reduced by 5 pts. 2 weapons per 5. TH/SS still +10pts. Add a TH/LC option that is +5pts. Nearly the same changes as a previous post by another. Plus I would reduce the cost of all Landraiders by 75 pts and increase their troop carrying abilities by 4 troops. Term HQ makes terminators troop choices in cad or grants objective secured otherwise.

Tacticals would gain an extra special or heavy weapon (grand total of 3 weapons at 10 men). Or maybe just allow all sergeants to take a heavy or special weapon that the rest of their squads have access to in all SM units. Assault marines should still get the extra weap choice with the sergeant option.

Dreadnoughts of all types would be about 30pts less and venerable upgrade would be 5pts more expensive and give eternal warrior.

If I were fixing IH specifically there would be a lot more I'd do, though they would lose some features like would never gain Term Troops. But those kinds of changes are for a different thread.

Comparison squashing moment here. You've made a model with a veteran statline, 2+/5++, Deep Strike, and a powerfist 25pts. How much are you proposing charging for a model with a veteran statline, 3+, a jump pack, and a power sword? Because he's 27pts under the current rules and it's pretty hard to argue he's better than the Terminator. And once the Vanguard vet is done where does that leave the Grey Knight with no jump pack, a third the number of melee attacks, and a dead-useless psychic power?

I would delete Centurion Devastators, delete Assault Centurion, and give the terminators special issue ammunitions (why do the veterans loose it when they wear a TDA ?!).
Obviously, I hate the centurion model, and fluff.

 godardc wrote:
I would delete Centurion Devastators, delete Assault Centurion, and give the terminators special issue ammunitions (why do the veterans loose it when they wear a TDA ?!).
Obviously, I hate the centurion model, and fluff.

What about chapters that don't have special ammo?

pm713 wrote:

 godardc wrote:
I would delete Centurion Devastators, delete Assault Centurion, and give the terminators special issue ammunitions (why do the veterans loose it when they wear a TDA ?!).
Obviously, I hate the centurion model, and fluff.

What about chapters that don't have special ammo?

And those Chapters would be.......

 Grimmor wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 godardc wrote:
I would delete Centurion Devastators, delete Assault Centurion, and give the terminators special issue ammunitions (why do the veterans loose it when they wear a TDA ?!).
Obviously, I hate the centurion model, and fluff.

What about chapters that don't have special ammo?

And those Chapters would be.......

Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Grey Knights and Blood Angels I'm pretty sure don't have it either.

Blood Angels have special issue ammunition, but I'm pretty sure Space Wolves and Grey Knight don't^^
I heard that Grey Knight termi were better than the SM's ones, though.
And I'm just fixing 1 codex, not the damn whole GW^^

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 NorseSig wrote:
Terminators with powerfist and storm bolter or twin lightning claws is 25 pts. For regular terminators reduce the cost of upgrades that replace the storm bolter by 5 pts. Cyclone reduced by 5 pts. 2 weapons per 5. TH/SS still +10pts. Add a TH/LC option that is +5pts. Nearly the same changes as a previous post by another. Plus I would reduce the cost of all Landraiders by 75 pts and increase their troop carrying abilities by 4 troops. Term HQ makes terminators troop choices in cad or grants objective secured otherwise.

Tacticals would gain an extra special or heavy weapon (grand total of 3 weapons at 10 men). Or maybe just allow all sergeants to take a heavy or special weapon that the rest of their squads have access to in all SM units. Assault marines should still get the extra weap choice with the sergeant option.

Dreadnoughts of all types would be about 30pts less and venerable upgrade would be 5pts more expensive and give eternal warrior.

If I were fixing IH specifically there would be a lot more I'd do, though they would lose some features like would never gain Term Troops. But those kinds of changes are for a different thread.

Comparison squashing moment here. You've made a model with a veteran statline, 2+/5++, Deep Strike, and a powerfist 25pts. How much are you proposing charging for a model with a veteran statline, 3+, a jump pack, and a power sword? Because he's 27pts under the current rules and it's pretty hard to argue he's better than the Terminator. And once the Vanguard vet is done where does that leave the Grey Knight with no jump pack, a third the number of melee attacks, and a dead-useless psychic power?

The mobility of the Jump pack counts for a lot but you are right i would drop the vanguard vets down to 21 or 22 ppm with packs. They are also a not very good, but nowhere near as bad as terminators as terminators can't get around very well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

pm713 wrote:
What do you mean you'd give Venerable Dreadnoughts eternal warrior? Eternal warrior doesn't apply to them.

Yeah, I got it in my head somehow that eternal warrior did more than it does due to my usually having a gorgon chain. I would have venerable give a 6+ invulnerable save instead of EW. Need more sleep I do.

 NorseSig wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 NorseSig wrote:
Terminators with powerfist and storm bolter or twin lightning claws is 25 pts. For regular terminators reduce the cost of upgrades that replace the storm bolter by 5 pts. Cyclone reduced by 5 pts. 2 weapons per 5. TH/SS still +10pts. Add a TH/LC option that is +5pts. Nearly the same changes as a previous post by another. Plus I would reduce the cost of all Landraiders by 75 pts and increase their troop carrying abilities by 4 troops. Term HQ makes terminators troop choices in cad or grants objective secured otherwise.

Tacticals would gain an extra special or heavy weapon (grand total of 3 weapons at 10 men). Or maybe just allow all sergeants to take a heavy or special weapon that the rest of their squads have access to in all SM units. Assault marines should still get the extra weap choice with the sergeant option.

Dreadnoughts of all types would be about 30pts less and venerable upgrade would be 5pts more expensive and give eternal warrior.

If I were fixing IH specifically there would be a lot more I'd do, though they would lose some features like would never gain Term Troops. But those kinds of changes are for a different thread.

Comparison squashing moment here. You've made a model with a veteran statline, 2+/5++, Deep Strike, and a powerfist 25pts. How much are you proposing charging for a model with a veteran statline, 3+, a jump pack, and a power sword? Because he's 27pts under the current rules and it's pretty hard to argue he's better than the Terminator. And once the Vanguard vet is done where does that leave the Grey Knight with no jump pack, a third the number of melee attacks, and a dead-useless psychic power?

The mobility of the Jump pack counts for a lot but you are right i would drop the vanguard vets down to 21 or 22 ppm with packs. They are also a not very good, but nowhere near as bad as terminators as terminators can't get around very well.

You may have skipped my point a bit. If Terminators need a ten-point drop what are you proposing doing to everything that's cheaper than that right now? What happens to GK Terminators (33pts at the moment), do they need to be 23ppm? What does that mean about Purifiers, why are they now a point more expensive than Terminators?

And it goes down the line and one day you're looking at making grots 1/2ppm and asking yourself where you went wrong.

 godardc wrote:
Blood Angels have special issue ammunition, but I'm pretty sure Space Wolves and Grey Knight don't^^
I heard that Grey Knight termi were better than the SM's ones, though.
And I'm just fixing 1 codex, not the damn whole GW^^

The only reason that the GK ones are good is because they have 2 Wounds. Space Wolves dont need Special Issue ammo cuz they wouldnt use it anyway. Theres a reason its called Codex Thunderwolf.

 Grimmor wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Blood Angels have special issue ammunition, but I'm pretty sure Space Wolves and Grey Knight don't^^
I heard that Grey Knight termi were better than the SM's ones, though.
And I'm just fixing 1 codex, not the damn whole GW^^

The only reason that the GK ones are good is because they have 2 Wounds. Space Wolves dont need Special Issue ammo cuz they wouldnt use it anyway. Theres a reason its called Codex Thunderwolf.

GK terminators only have 1 wound. Its the Paladins that have 2 wounds but they are like ~55 points each stock and those are rarely used due to them being extremely points heavy in an already high ppm army. GK Terminators have the benefit of being able to use Hammerhand and/or Force for their close combat needs plus all the extra psychic defense they (and all GK) have. Being able to use Psycannons (1 per 5) effectively because of relentless is the other benefit.

 godardc wrote:
Blood Angels have special issue ammunition, but I'm pretty sure Space Wolves and Grey Knight don't^^
I heard that Grey Knight termi were better than the SM's ones, though.
And I'm just fixing 1 codex, not the damn whole GW^^

You're making more problems though.

 Lance845 wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Tyranids.
Genestealers, Hermagaunts and Termagaunts.

1. Genestealers and all Gaunts unit type changes to Beasts.
2. Genestealers and Hermagaunts get Bounding Lope.

I'd love to add some actual saves as well but I think that's pushing it on melee units that can potentially cover 30' on the first turn.

These are not really feasible changes without some other wide spread changes. How are you going to keep these guys in synapse? (Not a problem for the genestealers but a major problem for the gaunts and gants).

Same way you keep gargoyles in synapse: Shrikes.

Also, part of my fixing 3 units is giving Shrikes official models, because otherwise in this theoretical new codex there won't be any Shrikes.
2. Give Pyrovores torrent and also beasts
3. feth it, everyone is beasts except MCs and bipedal units. In a codex of practically nothing but beasts, only 1 unit has the beast unit type. What's up with that?
4. Since models aren't actually fixing rules, I'd make Deathleaper unable to be overwatched. You aren't supposed to see him coming anyway. He can already only be snapped at to represent his fleetingness, so overwatch, being more hasty shooting in the face of a charging foe, shouldn't be possible against a thing you can't even see attacking you. An Invuln for him would be nice, too...actually, having more than 1 unit in the codex with an invuln would be nice in general.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 NorseSig wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 NorseSig wrote:
Terminators with powerfist and storm bolter or twin lightning claws is 25 pts. For regular terminators reduce the cost of upgrades that replace the storm bolter by 5 pts. Cyclone reduced by 5 pts. 2 weapons per 5. TH/SS still +10pts. Add a TH/LC option that is +5pts. Nearly the same changes as a previous post by another. Plus I would reduce the cost of all Landraiders by 75 pts and increase their troop carrying abilities by 4 troops. Term HQ makes terminators troop choices in cad or grants objective secured otherwise.

Tacticals would gain an extra special or heavy weapon (grand total of 3 weapons at 10 men). Or maybe just allow all sergeants to take a heavy or special weapon that the rest of their squads have access to in all SM units. Assault marines should still get the extra weap choice with the sergeant option.

Dreadnoughts of all types would be about 30pts less and venerable upgrade would be 5pts more expensive and give eternal warrior.

If I were fixing IH specifically there would be a lot more I'd do, though they would lose some features like would never gain Term Troops. But those kinds of changes are for a different thread.

Comparison squashing moment here. You've made a model with a veteran statline, 2+/5++, Deep Strike, and a powerfist 25pts. How much are you proposing charging for a model with a veteran statline, 3+, a jump pack, and a power sword? Because he's 27pts under the current rules and it's pretty hard to argue he's better than the Terminator. And once the Vanguard vet is done where does that leave the Grey Knight with no jump pack, a third the number of melee attacks, and a dead-useless psychic power?

The mobility of the Jump pack counts for a lot but you are right i would drop the vanguard vets down to 21 or 22 ppm with packs. They are also a not very good, but nowhere near as bad as terminators as terminators can't get around very well.

You may have skipped my point a bit. If Terminators need a ten-point drop what are you proposing doing to everything that's cheaper than that right now? What happens to GK Terminators (33pts at the moment), do they need to be 23ppm? What does that mean about Purifiers, why are they now a point more expensive than Terminators?

And it goes down the line and one day you're looking at making grots 1/2ppm and asking yourself where you went wrong.

This isn't a fix every unit in every codex thread/post. It is a pick the three you think are the worst and fix them as YOU think they should be fixed. I see it as more of a thought exercise than anything. I would say though that at 25ppm for terminators the gk variant would be 3 points more roughly. I find brotherhood of psykers to be a much better rule than most CT to be honest. I felt terminators, tacticals, and dreadnoughts were the three worst units in the SM codex, so I chose them to work on. Doesn't mean there aren't other units that need help. Just that I feel those three are the worst.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Rough Riders, Ratlings, and Commissars
Press "Delete" on the entries.
Fixed!

Bonus Round!:
Auto-Targeting System added back to Hydras(Cover Saves granted by Jink cannot be taken against shots from a Hydra Autocannon; additionally Flyers, Skimmers, and FMCs(and their Gargantuan/Super Heavy variants) cannot move Flat Out when a successful hit is made by a Hydra Autocannon) and Hydra Autocannon is granted the "Wall of Flak" rule(Each successful hit causes a small Blast with centered on the target, causing a S7 AP4 Wound).

Leman Russ variants regain "Lumbering Behemoth" allowing them to fire Ordnance and not have to snap fire Sponson, Hull mounted, or Pintle mounted weapons.

All Sentinel variants gain the "Auspex Tracking" rule:

Auspex Tracking: At the start of each Movement phase, the Sentinel pings its Auspex Trackers before moving. Any enemy unit within 12" of a Sentinel that has pinged its Auspex Trackers suffers a -1 to its Cover Save for the duration of the game turn.

what do you have against commissars? the rough riders could be interesting if THEY HAD MODELS!!

 Dr. Zoidbork wrote:

Wakshaani wrote:
Basic Boys:
Reduce cost to 5 pts/model.
option: Scrap Armor for +1 pt each, provides a SV of 5+
'Eavy Armor at +3 pts/model for 4+ save.
Add Skarboyz option for +1 pt/model in the unit

MEK
Add "May ride a Deffkopta" for + 25 pts.

Burnaboyz, Tankbustas, and Kommandos are all reduced in cost by 1 pt, gain the Scrap and 'Eavy armor options fo +1 pt and +3pts, respectively.

This sounds awfully familiar...

Oh nice! Seems that I'm on the same page as some smarties.
Also, I need to read that project.

ALSO also, I need to talk people into letting me use it. Like, you know ... the guys at GW.

 Grimmor wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Blood Angels have special issue ammunition, but I'm pretty sure Space Wolves and Grey Knight don't^^
I heard that Grey Knight termi were better than the SM's ones, though.
And I'm just fixing 1 codex, not the damn whole GW^^

The only reason that the GK ones are good is because they have 2 Wounds. Space Wolves dont need Special Issue ammo cuz they wouldnt use it anyway. Theres a reason its called Codex Thunderwolf.

The two-wound ones are terrible. The one-wound ones are good because they're cheap and can have Relentless psycannons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NorseSig wrote:
(TRUNCATED)

This isn't a fix every unit in every codex thread/post. It is a pick the three you think are the worst and fix them as YOU think they should be fixed. I see it as more of a thought exercise than anything. I would say though that at 25ppm for terminators the gk variant would be 3 points more roughly. I find brotherhood of psykers to be a much better rule than most CT to be honest. I felt terminators, tacticals, and dreadnoughts were the three worst units in the SM codex, so I chose them to work on. Doesn't mean there aren't other units that need help. Just that I feel those three are the worst.

I'm not suggesting that you fix everything. I'm trying to point out that 'fixing' things should have to take into account the environment. A fix should use some kind of middle point of the game as a goal rather than trying to make things competitive against the most powerful units in the game. Making Terminators a full 10ppm cheaper with no other changes is going overboard by a fair margin.

And as someone who's been playing GK for years and done a lot of work on trying to make them function Brotherhood of Psykers is a dramatically worse special rule than GW (and players) seem to think it is. Before the core-book-psychic-powers push when you had powers that weren't staggeringly useless (risk losing a 20+pt model to give my one attack +2S? Really?) the argument could be made, but right now it's a fairly dead-weight rule.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Grimmor wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Blood Angels have special issue ammunition, but I'm pretty sure Space Wolves and Grey Knight don't^^
I heard that Grey Knight termi were better than the SM's ones, though.
And I'm just fixing 1 codex, not the damn whole GW^^

The only reason that the GK ones are good is because they have 2 Wounds. Space Wolves dont need Special Issue ammo cuz they wouldnt use it anyway. Theres a reason its called Codex Thunderwolf.

The two-wound ones are terrible. The one-wound ones are good because they're cheap and can have Relentless psycannons.

Sorry was thinking last edition when they were great because of that second wound. Now its the psychic shenanigans.

 AnomanderRake wrote:


I'm not suggesting that you fix everything. I'm trying to point out that 'fixing' things should have to take into account the environment. A fix should use some kind of middle point of the game as a goal rather than trying to make things competitive against the most powerful units in the game. Making Terminators a full 10ppm cheaper with no other changes is going overboard by a fair margin.

And as someone who's been playing GK for years and done a lot of work on trying to make them function Brotherhood of Psykers is a dramatically worse special rule than GW (and players) seem to think it is. Before the core-book-psychic-powers push when you had powers that weren't staggeringly useless (risk losing a 20+pt model to give my one attack +2S? Really?) the argument could be made, but right now it's a fairly dead-weight rule.

A *censored* Men. I hate that rule as its the basis of ruining my Pink Horrors. The only units i think its even remotely good on is the Weirdvane Psykers and if GW ever made some Chaos Cultist Sorcerers

Necrons:

All C'tan variants have a 2+ armour save and 4+ FNP in addition to their 4++ invulnerable save (reason: too many gods die to light arms fire currently).

Monolith doesn't scatter when deep striking (reason: underused unit).

Living Metal rules means vehicles ignore any firing restrictions brought on by jinking (reason: doomsday ark and barges never used any more).

There are already some good ones for Orks above.

But I think letting Boyz take a painboy instead of a nob would improve their options. It would free up HQ slots allowing you to run either more of their decent HQs or run a cad instead of horde so you can have object secured. Maybe if your unit is 10+ you get an optional nob, 20+ a weirdboy and 30 you get a pain boy.

For like 650 points you could have 2 warbosses with powerklaws and 60 boyz with 5+ FNP letting you get loads of dakka in elite and heavy slots. Without grot tax for additional HQs or losing objective secured.

Aspects of Thom wrote:
There are already some good ones for Orks above.

But I think letting Boyz take a painboy instead of a nob would improve their options. It would free up HQ slots allowing you to run either more of their decent HQs or run a cad instead of horde so you can have object secured. Maybe if your unit is 10+ you get an optional nob, 20+ a weirdboy and 30 you get a pain boy.

For like 650 points you could have 2 warbosses with powerklaws and 60 boyz with 5+ FNP letting you get loads of dakka in elite and heavy slots. Without grot tax for additional HQs or losing objective secured.

Have a HQ choice for each oddboy type. warboss, big mek, boss dok, warphead. When using one of these as your warlord, it allows you to replace nob characters with the affiliated type for a cost . They all get access to bikes and jetpacks, which then makes the respective army entry a troops choice.

Ruststalkers
- T4 Base
- 3+ Armor

Infiltrators
- T4 Base
- Jump Pack Infantry (teleportation)

Seriously 35 ppm and being that paper thin is insane.

Terminators:

Insert hh variants, all of them, locked to chapters/legions

Land raiders: insert hh versions, standard raider gets heavy 2 Las, heavy 6 heavy bolter

Quad Las goes to 3 shots

Sisters of Battle:

Seraphim:
2 Hand Flamers +5 points
2 Inferno Pistols +10 points

Add Land Raider Redeemer to their motorpool and allow Repentia to take it.

Make AoF more then one use only. Either just pass leadership and go, or have an ability that gives them more during a game.

Imperial Guard:

Leman Russes can move and fire at 6" as if they hadn't moved at all.

Ratlings: Unit Leader of some sort just +1 BS and +1 LD would be nice

M. of Ord.: Can use Artillery Bombardment while in a vehicle and/or on the move.

Orgyn and Bullgryn: Become one unit. 28 points per model (normal orgryn stats and weapons as standard) any model may mix-and-match armor and equipement. If you want an Ogryn with 4+ armor, a slab shield, and ripper gun it's possible. Bonehead should have more options and abilities to have a power weapon.

Leman Russ and varients: Turret weapon doesn't count toward what weapons can fire

Sentinels: 5 points per model drop.

CSM:

Warp Talons:

- Assault from DS.

- Add in assault and defensive grenades that they can't throw, call it Preysight.

- Warp Flame strike should be changed to enemy units auto-blind

- Should add in a rule that they their wounds cause instant death to enemy warlord. Call it "Chosen Prey"

Possessed:

- Daemonic Influence: Gain +3 movement to moving, charging and running.

- Decrease to 15ppm.

Mutilators:

- Can assault from DS.

- Decrease points to 45ppm.

Orks:

- Mob Rule: Change to ignore pinning and Fear. Yes not a direct reversion to 4th ed. but still quite viable.

Boys:

- Change to I:3. I refuse to believe that Orks attack at the same time as a Tau or Necron.

Nobz:

- Big Chappas should get rending.

- Points Decrease to 15ppm.

Kommandos:

- Assault from from Outflank.

- Becomes I: 3.

Although I don't play Tyranids I thought this would be a fun fluffy rule that makes them playing horde different to Ork Horde:

- Endless swarm: if a unit is completely destroyed or fallen back, off the table; At the start of the Tyranid Turn roll a D6 for every unit removed from the board this way: on a 3+ that unit immediately comes back onto the board from the Tyranid players controlling edge as if it came on from ongoing reserves.

Obviously there are so much more you can do but I'm sticking to the restrictions of the OP.