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 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Tyranids.
Genestealers, Hermagaunts and Termagaunts.

1. Genestealers and all Gaunts unit type changes to Beasts.
2. Genestealers and Hermagaunts get Bounding Lope.

I'd love to add some actual saves as well but I think that's pushing it on melee units that can potentially cover 30' on the first turn.

These are not really feasible changes without some other wide spread changes. How are you going to keep these guys in synapse? (Not a problem for the genestealers but a major problem for the gaunts and gants).

pm713 wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Don't Hormagaunts already have the Bounding Lope rule?

Hormagaunts, it's been so long since I bothered with the Tyranid codex I can't even remember how to spell their names...shameful...they have Bounding Leap - Gives them fleet which lets them re-roll runs and charges.
Bounding Lope is only found on Wulfen, lets them run and charge.

In my defence they're very similar names and I haven't looked at my Tyranid codex in months. There's something like three rules for run and charge now. Wulfen are such a mess for such a simple idea.

I'm not judging, somehow I managed to convince myself that Cunning of the Wolf was Obj Sec for troops and choosing what comes in from reserves. Wulfen are actually pretty simple once you get some practice rounds in with them, non-Space Wolf opponents find them to be unholy and random like Chaos should be. Which sits just fine with me.

Lance845 wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Tyranids.
Genestealers, Hermagaunts and Termagaunts.

1. Genestealers and all Gaunts unit type changes to Beasts.
2. Genestealers and Hermagaunts get Bounding Lope.

I'd love to add some actual saves as well but I think that's pushing it on melee units that can potentially cover 30' on the first turn.

These are not really feasible changes without some other wide spread changes. How are you going to keep these guys in synapse? (Not a problem for the genestealers but a major problem for the gaunts and gants).

If I can keep TWC in 12' range of a foot slogging Wolf Lord to use 'For Glory For Russ!' and keep Wulfen within 6' boost range of my units surely a regular Tyranid Player can keep their 12' 18' and 24' Synapse critters in range. The only time they'd struggle is when they try to hide their Synapse creatures at the back...like a sook.

Orks

Gorkamaunt - Super heavy without stomp (its little booties can't raise up enough), 5+ invuln.
Morkanaut- Super heavy without stomp, 5+ invuln
Kommandos - 9ppm, Burna is a 5 point upgrade, can charge the turn they arrive via outflank.

Edit: Wow I completely blanked on remembering the horrible treatment Killa Kanz got in 7th. 40ppm, Grotzookas are a 10 point upgrade but increased to 21" range, remove cowardly grot rule because its a freaking vehicle so why is it scared? 5+ invuln (all ork vehicles imo should have 5+ invuln due to the ramshackle nature of their tech having a chance to just ignore the damage done to it).

Tau
Kroot - 2 attacks base, base weapon profile is assault, stealth (not just forests), furious charge, FNP with shaper.

The Tau Bomber (Sun Shark?) - Bomb becomes an Ion Bomb that is Str 7 AP3 large blast. Point defense system that can be activated against 1 unit's shooting attacks granting a 4+ invuln save against shots from that unit.

Vespids - Assault 2, At the beginning of the movement phase it can choose to act as Jump or Jet infantry for the remainder of the player turn.

Bonus: Darkstrider - 50 points

Eldar

Howling Banshee's - something to mess with enemy shooting like the Harley Veil of Tears if they move and run but don't shoot

Vypers - make double S-Cannon the stock loadout, give them a 6" move in the Assault phase, puts them more on par with the War Walker

Rangers, either fix Sniper or give them the option of S-Catapults or Lasblasters


Also knock about 50 or so points off each Phoenix Lord

Howling Banshees :
- Furious Charge as per standard (seriously for a unit that is all about a 'furious charge' the lack of it on their rules is upsetting to say the least)
- From turn 2 onward units comprising of all models with the Acrobatic rule can run and charge - doesn't slingshot other characters into combat (minus Mrs Zarr) and helps with the lack of any open topped transport.

Harlequins -
- Units equipped with flip belts ignore overwatch
- Models equipped with flip belts have a 4+ invulnerable save against shooting attacks

Wraithknight- Becomes a Gargantuan Creature rather than Jump Gargantuan
- Base cost of the Wraithknight increases to 350 points
- Ghostglaive and Scattershield becomes a 50 point upgrade (400 point total)
- (Skathach Wraithknight) Deathshroud become a 25 point upgrade per weapon
- (Skathach Wraithknight) Inferno Cannon becomes a 25 point upgrade per weapon
- (Skathach Wraithknight) Scattershield becomes a 25 point upgrade
- Heavy Wraithcannons become a 100 point upgrade (450 point total)
- Scattershield grants a 4+ invulnerable save
- Killing a Wraithknight grants one additional VP

Transcendant C'Tan - 325 pts (Lord of War, Unique)

WS5 BS5 S9 T8 I4 W5 A4 LD10 Sv 3+



Annihilation Barge - 100 pts

11/11/11, Vehicle, Heavy (remove open-topped)

Special rules: Same as current

Weapons: Same as current


Other C'tans - I dunno, literally anything could make them better. Probably +1 Toughness, or more wounds, or a better armor save. Or remove it all together (for purposes of grav). And make them slightly cheaper.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Torus wrote:

- Killing a Wraithknight grants one additional VP

Or we could go back to the Escalation rules and add them to the base game, since they added GCs to the base game and took away the downsides of running them.

Every 3 wounds/Hull points on a GC or SHV is an additional VP.

ORKS:

WALKERS: All walkers gain the Ere We Go special rule, All ork walkers can now move 12 inches AND shoot/assault as normal. All Ork walkers reduced in price by 35%ish. (Killa Kanz go from 50ppm to 35ppm) Grotzooka becomes a Range 36 weapon. Mork/Gorkanaut remain as walkers not super heavies, but they gain a 4+invul and double the current amount of dakka. IE Morkanaut gets 2 KMK shots, and can choose to replace the stupid KMB with a Skorcha for free. Both become assault vehicles and increase troop capacity to 10 models.

INFANTRY: All boyz units gain +1 strength, all Boyz units gain LD8 if they have a nob or mek. All Boyz units can purchase Eavy armor for 2ppm. All boyz units can purchase a slotless painboy for 50pts. ALL ork models gain a 6+ FNP which when teamed with a painboy increases it to a 4+ FNP. Elite/Heavy infantry models receive a points reduction based on usefulness. Burnaboyz drop in price by 4ppm and can upgrade to become Skorcha boyz for 2ppm. Tankbustas remain the same but can purchase Eavy armor for 2ppm. Lootas stay the same price but their weapon goes from D3 to D3+1 shots. They can also purchase Git findaz for 2ppm. (Git Finda now works regardless of if you move) Kommandos receive a 4ppm drop in price and gain Shrouded special rule, they also receive a special rule that allows them to assault out of reserve/outflank/deep strike. Burna upgrade is a 5ppm upgrade and the can take up to 2. Stormboyz receive a standardized 4+ Cover save, called Exhaust cloud. When using their jump packs twice in the same phase they roll dangerous terrain HOWEVER on any roll of a 1 you then roll a further D6, on a 4+ the model is fine but fails to use his jump pack and only goes 1/2 the distance as the rest of the squad, on a 1-3 the model is removed from play no saves of any kind allowed.

Nobz units reduce base price by 33%. Regular nobz become 12ppm and Meganobz become 28ppm. Nobz come standard with Eavy armor.

That makes orks good again

Martel732 wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Land Raiders: make them 175 pts, give them dozer blade

Tac terminators: remove them from inventory so no one accidentally ever uses them. Unsalvageable under current rules system. They are the ultimate trap unit.

Tycho: give him some real command benefits as he is on foot.

Dozer blade sure, but 175pt LR is pushing it. And Tactical Terminators aren't unsalvageable, make upgrade guns 0-2 regardless of squad size and start them at 30ppm with a power weapon, option to upgrade to a power fist/chainfist.

Note: I still wouldn't pay 175 for the LR. I still wouldn't take a tac terminator under your proposal. Their heavy weapon choices aren't worth the damn points, so giving them two is meaningless.

I do try to design to the middle, I agree, and in a competitive environment neither suggestion is going to be that much help. Both units exist on an edge of the bell curve (AV14 all round and 2+ armour) where they're impossible to deal with without specialized tools to do so and entirely too easy to deal with when you do have the tools; the result makes them useless in games where someone's got an easy answer to everything (Wraithguard, say).

D weapons straight up ignoring armor is "lol wut?" I don't know what price that makes the LR.

Astra Militarum:

Rough Riders get Toughness 4 for free.

Ratling Snipers get Camo Cloaks for free.

Death Strike get it's one shot missile upgraded to Strength D

Chaos Space Marines:

Bring back the special rules for the Warsmith, (Chaos Lord/Warpsmith combo?)

Heldrake should have more than 1 weapon. 2 minimum.

Chaos Cultists can be upgraded to Renegade Imperial Guard.

Tyranids:

Hormagaunts, get an extra 6" move, don't care how it's done.

Tervigon can choose to spawn Hormagaunts instead of Termigants no points change.

Lictors get their save changed to an invulerable save.

Eldar:

No changes needed.

SYKOJAK wrote:

Eldar:

No changes needed.

Because all the Eldar are so OP.

SYKOJAK wrote:

Eldar:

No changes needed.

There's an interpretation of 'worst' that lets you make suggestions for things that need nerfing.

Chaos Daemons:

Furies get Leadership 6.
Bloodcrushers have Warpforged Armor
Exalted Flamer has Jetpack Infantry type.

No other changes to them. *drops mic*

CHAOS SPACE MARINES

1) WARP TALONS
Give their lightning claws Rending.

2) HELBRUTE
Turn into a Monstrous Creature to further differentiate it from the loyalist Dreadnought, as well as differentiate it from the codex's Daemon Engines. Remove the Crazed special rule and give it Fleet and Rage instead. Furthermore, allow it to take a Mark of Chaos.
WS 4, BS 4, S 6, T 6, W 3, I 4, A 4, Ld 10, Sv 2+

3) MUTILATORS
Replace Slow and Purposeful with Relentless.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

SYKOJAK wrote:

Eldar:

No changes needed.

There's an interpretation of 'worst' that lets you make suggestions for things that need nerfing.

There's also units that could do with being better.

Imperial guard:

Storm troopers;
-Change the name back to Storm Troopers. No more Miliwhatsit
-Reduced down to 9 PPM
-Hotshot is renamed to Hellgun
-Hellgun becomes S4
-LD is base 8, 9 with sarge
-Hellgun becomes Assault 3
-Volleygun becomes Salvo 3/6, Relentless
-Sarge has a a Hellgun
-All models have a Pistol and CCW in addition to the Hellgun
-Gain Furious Charge and Counter Attack
-Gain Outflank and Infiltrate
-Gain Stealth on first turn if they Infiltrate
-Gain Pinning on the turn they arrive if they Outflank

Ogryns/Bullgryns;
-Base save of Ogryn's increased to 4+, Bullgryns to 3+
-Ogryns gain AP4 on their close combat attacks
-Ogryns and Bullgryns gain 4+ FNP
-Bullgryns can switch their Mauls for Grenadier gauntlets without changing the shields
-The big Bullgryn shield gives a 3++ invun save
-Power Mauls can be switched for Power Axes at no extra cost
-Ogryns and Bullgryns lose Vbulky
-A new transport for them, an Assault Transport

Rough Riders;
-Carapace Armour base
-Lance is AP 2 on the charge
-Gain Counter Charge
-Can take a Shield for a 5++ invun (5 PPM)
-Lance is no longer single use
-Lance gains Shred
-Lance grants Initiative 6 on the Charge
-Gain Outflank and Scout
-Gain Furious Charge
-Have 2 Attacks each
-Gain Hit and run
-Can run 2D6 and charge

Sisters:

1) Palatine (lower level HQ than Canoness) -40 points, war gear options, AoF improves units Shield of Faith to 4+ for the remainder of either players shooting or assault phase.

2) Sisters Command Squad - equip squad each with a rozarius for 25 points (for the squad) reduce the cost of wargear to vanguard veteren levels. Allow members to be detached to other Sisters units. Celestians/Hospitallers/Dialogus each convey a different available AoF to the unit they are attached too.

3) Celestian Squad - give the squad condemnor boltguns that always wound on a 4+ and cause perils of the warp when wounding psykers.

Orks:

Walkers: 30% point decrease, more shooty, can fit more into FOC. (either by moving them out of heavy support or letting them squad up more. Yes, even the orkonaunts.)

Trukks: Make them less explodey or really cheap. 15pt transport seems good, but when it vaporizes everyone inside it seems more balanced. Alternatively a formation that lets you have them free would at least let you use them like kan walls in 6e, which is probably more effective in terms of troop protection than actually letting someone inside them.

Flash gits: Reduce cost by three points, give them a decent dedicated transport w/ open-topped, make gitfindas buff BS when snapfiring. Gun Wagons from IA8 would work. Move to elites maybe?

The point decreases across the board represent Orks being thematically a horde army. They should be able to have lots of units to fulfill any role cheaply if they can't have units that are any good at fulfilling the role very well.

Terminators:

Reduce to 25 points per model.

If taken with a Terminator Captain, can be troops.

Squad can buy 2 Heavy Weapons per five.

Squad can buy Specialist Ammo for their Stormbolters

Assault Terminators:

Same deal as above - reduce to 25 ppm.

TH/SS still cost +10 points.

Dreadnoughts:

Reduce their cost by another 20 points.

God damnit there has to be a way that's not making them MCs.

I don't know if these are the worst units in their codices, but they are missing something, and I won't list anything that cannot be taken in to account with the current kits already.

Codex: Space Marines:
- Helbrecht gains Orbital Bombardment.
- All Servitors are considered a separate unit the IC is joined to when Deployment starts.

Codex: Necrons:
- Obelisk Gravity Pulse rules changed to read like Dangerous Terrain's rules, just not considered Dangerous Terrain. Kind of like how Zealot has Fearless' rules, without actually being Fearless. Maybe up the roll to a 1 or 2 as well.
- Add Ranged Weapons to the Destroyer Lord Options.
- Transcendant C'tan renamed to just C'tan Shard, with stats to reduced to closer match Nightbringer and Deceiver.
* Other additions not specific to a unit would be:
- Change Powers of the C'tan to Rolling the Power BEFORE Selecting a Target.
- Add Particle Caster to Ranged Weapons list. If they can get a Void Blade, they can get Particle Caster.
- Staff of Light gains the following profile: Rng: Melee, Str: +1, AP: 4, Melee.
- Warscythe gains the following profile: Rng: 12", Str: 4, AP: 5, Assault 1, Gauss.
- All versions of the C'tan gain a Transcendent form upgrade. This upgrades the C'tan to Gargantuan Creature unit type, Lord of War Role, changes profile to coincide with T C'tan Escalation profile, and uses the Transcendent profile for Powers of the C'tan.

Other things could use some work, of course but I think things like the Annihilation Barge needs a kit change to really make it useful.

 Crazyterran wrote:
Terminators:

Reduce to 25 points per model.

If taken with a Terminator Captain, can be troops.

Squad can buy 2 Heavy Weapons per five.

Squad can buy Specialist Ammo for their Stormbolters

Assault Terminators:

Same deal as above - reduce to 25 ppm.

TH/SS still cost +10 points.

Dreadnoughts:

Reduce their cost by another 20 points.

God damnit there has to be a way that's not making them MCs.

Just keep making them cheaper until they get used. The ideal place is around 33%-66% of marine lists have dreadnoughts.

Martel732 wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Terminators:

Reduce to 25 points per model.

If taken with a Terminator Captain, can be troops.

Squad can buy 2 Heavy Weapons per five.

Squad can buy Specialist Ammo for their Stormbolters

Assault Terminators:

Same deal as above - reduce to 25 ppm.

TH/SS still cost +10 points.

Dreadnoughts:

Reduce their cost by another 20 points.

God damnit there has to be a way that's not making them MCs.

Just keep making them cheaper until they get used. The ideal place is around 33%-66% of marine lists have dreadnoughts.

Yes, make them Front AV 13 (what is that, the Ironclad?) That one actually sees use.

Sisters of Battle
This isn't a unit fix but it has to happen: Make Acts of Faith usable more than once per fething game.

Celestians: Give them Artificer Armor (and let it be an upgrade for the Canoness) bump them up to Initiative and Strength 4. If anyone complains say its the armor doing it.

Repentia: Get them an Assault vehicle or let them charge after Running, bump their Shield of Faith to a 5+

Penitent Engines: Drop 10 points off them, give them a 5+ invuln. They are fairly killy as they sit, they just have this annoying tendency to explode.

Blood Angels:

Land raider, aforementioned, should have maximum capacity 16 models, have sponsors to carry 2 of any heavy weapon and/or dreadnought weapon. Pintle mounted MM stays the same. Front mounted gun should be, again, any heavy weapon. Drag assault launchers. Points cost at 275 for max OP Ness.

Death Company: all weapons cost reduced to 10 ppm, gain +1 S,T,W,A.

All vehicles except Land raiders have the Fast type.

"Land raider, aforementioned, should have maximum capacity 16 models, have sponsors to carry 2 of any heavy weapon and/or dreadnought weapon. Pintle mounted MM stays the same. Front mounted gun should be, again, any heavy weapon. Drag assault launchers. Points cost at 275 for max OP Ness. "


Still useless.

DC is not one of the worst units.

For my 3 armies:
Dark Angels:
1. Asmodai: Blades of Reason gain Rending and lose Specialist Weapon. At least players could think about taking him then.
2. Nephilim Jetfighter: Reduce cost to 160 per model. Change missiles from One Use only to a S7, AP3 Heavy 4 weapon.
3. Land Speeder Vengeance: Allow rerolls to Gets Hot on plasma weapon (or remove Gets Hot from the weapon entirely), alternatively replace current firing modes with S7, AP2, Barrage 3, Blast, Gets Hot! weapon.

Tau:
1. Vespid Stingwings: Weapon becomes Assault 2 and Rending.
2. Hammerhead Gunship: Railgun becomes Strength D on a To Hit roll of 6.
3. Broadside Battlesuit with HRR: Heavy Rail Rifle gains Armorbane on a To Hit roll of 6.

Khorne Daemonkin:
1. Defiler: Becomes Superheavy Walker with 6 HP, cost increased to 220, no other changes.
2. Chaos Land Raider: Gains some equivalent of PotMS, transport capacity increased to at least 12.
3. Warp Talons: Reduce cost to 30 ppm. When they Deep Strike, enemy models may only fire Snap Shots at them until the end of your opponent's next turn.
These would also apply to CSM versions of these units.

Well, I'm super-new to the Ork side of things, but I'll pitch in!

BIG CHANGE - Mob Rule
As now, but add, "For every all-Ork unit with 10+ wounds remaining that's within 6", this unit gains +1 Leadership. Units that are LD of 11+ due to this are Fearless."

Basic Boys:
Reduce cost to 5 pts/model.
option: Scrap Armor for +1 pt each, provides a SV of 5+
'Eavy Armor at +3 pts/model for 4+ save.
Add Skarboyz option for +1 [t/model in the unit (Skarboyz are Strength 4, but lose 'Ere We Go)
Add Flama as a weapon option along with Big Shootas and Rokkits (Flama is, well, a flamer. 5 pt, doesn't do Power Weapon attack)
Option to replace basic gun with Lasgun for free. (Lootin'! Or trading with 'oomies)
option for "Kunnin'" ... reduce WS to 3 and Attacks to 1, increase BS to 3 for +1 pt/model.

TRUKKS
Add, "That was a good 'un!" ... Transported models are only wounded on a 6, rather than a 4+, when this model is destroyed.

MEK
Add "May ride a Deffkopta" for + 25 pts.

Burnaboyz, Tankbustas, and Kommandos are all reduced in cost by 1 pt, gain the Scrap and 'Eavy armor options fo +1 pt and +3pts, respectively.


...

Really, there's a lot of little fixes here. Hrm.

Wakshaani wrote:
Basic Boys:
Reduce cost to 5 pts/model.
option: Scrap Armor for +1 pt each, provides a SV of 5+
'Eavy Armor at +3 pts/model for 4+ save.
Add Skarboyz option for +1 pt/model in the unit

MEK
Add "May ride a Deffkopta" for + 25 pts.

Burnaboyz, Tankbustas, and Kommandos are all reduced in cost by 1 pt, gain the Scrap and 'Eavy armor options fo +1 pt and +3pts, respectively.

This sounds awfully familiar...

 Charistoph wrote:

Codex: Necrons:
- Obelisk Gravity Pulse rules changed to read like Dangerous Terrain's rules, just not considered Dangerous Terrain. Kind of like how Zealot has Fearless' rules, without actually being Fearless. Maybe up the roll to a 1 or 2 as well.
- Add Ranged Weapons to the Destroyer Lord Options.
- Transcendant C'tan renamed to just C'tan Shard, with stats to reduced to closer match Nightbringer and Deceiver.
* Other additions not specific to a unit would be:
- Change Powers of the C'tan to Rolling the Power BEFORE Selecting a Target.
- Add Particle Caster to Ranged Weapons list. If they can get a Void Blade, they can get Particle Caster.
- Staff of Light gains the following profile: Rng: Melee, Str: +1, AP: 4, Melee.
- Warscythe gains the following profile: Rng: 12", Str: 4, AP: 5, Assault 1, Gauss.
- All versions of the C'tan gain a Transcendent form upgrade. This upgrades the C'tan to Gargantuan Creature unit type, Lord of War Role, changes profile to coincide with T C'tan Escalation profile, and uses the Transcendent profile for Powers of the C'tan.

Other things could use some work, of course but I think things like the Annihilation Barge needs a kit change to really make it useful.

Oh man, I would love if they gave the Staff of Light a melee profile, and the Warscythe a ranged profile. Brings me back to the good ole days of DoW.

Terminators with powerfist and storm bolter or twin lightning claws is 25 pts. For regular terminators reduce the cost of upgrades that replace the storm bolter by 5 pts. Cyclone reduced by 5 pts. 2 weapons per 5. TH/SS still +10pts. Add a TH/LC option that is +5pts. Nearly the same changes as a previous post by another. Plus I would reduce the cost of all Landraiders by 75 pts and increase their troop carrying abilities by 4 troops. Term HQ makes terminators troop choices in cad or grants objective secured otherwise.

Tacticals would gain an extra special or heavy weapon (grand total of 3 weapons at 10 men). Or maybe just allow all sergeants to take a heavy or special weapon that the rest of their squads have access to in all SM units. Assault marines should still get the extra weap choice with the sergeant option.

Dreadnoughts of all types would be about 30pts less and venerable upgrade would be 5pts more expensive and give eternal warrior.

If I were fixing IH specifically there would be a lot more I'd do, though they would lose some features like would never gain Term Troops. But those kinds of changes are for a different thread.

What do you mean you'd give Venerable Dreadnoughts eternal warrior? Eternal warrior doesn't apply to them.