Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 NorseSig wrote:
Terminators with powerfist and storm bolter or twin lightning claws is 25 pts. For regular terminators reduce the cost of upgrades that replace the storm bolter by 5 pts. Cyclone reduced by 5 pts. 2 weapons per 5. TH/SS still +10pts. Add a TH/LC option that is +5pts. Nearly the same changes as a previous post by another. Plus I would reduce the cost of all Landraiders by 75 pts and increase their troop carrying abilities by 4 troops. Term HQ makes terminators troop choices in cad or grants objective secured otherwise.

Tacticals would gain an extra special or heavy weapon (grand total of 3 weapons at 10 men). Or maybe just allow all sergeants to take a heavy or special weapon that the rest of their squads have access to in all SM units. Assault marines should still get the extra weap choice with the sergeant option.

Dreadnoughts of all types would be about 30pts less and venerable upgrade would be 5pts more expensive and give eternal warrior.

If I were fixing IH specifically there would be a lot more I'd do, though they would lose some features like would never gain Term Troops. But those kinds of changes are for a different thread.

Comparison squashing moment here. You've made a model with a veteran statline, 2+/5++, Deep Strike, and a powerfist 25pts. How much are you proposing charging for a model with a veteran statline, 3+, a jump pack, and a power sword? Because he's 27pts under the current rules and it's pretty hard to argue he's better than the Terminator. And once the Vanguard vet is done where does that leave the Grey Knight with no jump pack, a third the number of melee attacks, and a dead-useless psychic power?

I would delete Centurion Devastators, delete Assault Centurion, and give the terminators special issue ammunitions (why do the veterans loose it when they wear a TDA ?!).
Obviously, I hate the centurion model, and fluff.

 godardc wrote:
I would delete Centurion Devastators, delete Assault Centurion, and give the terminators special issue ammunitions (why do the veterans loose it when they wear a TDA ?!).
Obviously, I hate the centurion model, and fluff.

What about chapters that don't have special ammo?

pm713 wrote:

 godardc wrote:
I would delete Centurion Devastators, delete Assault Centurion, and give the terminators special issue ammunitions (why do the veterans loose it when they wear a TDA ?!).
Obviously, I hate the centurion model, and fluff.

What about chapters that don't have special ammo?

And those Chapters would be.......

 Grimmor wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 godardc wrote:
I would delete Centurion Devastators, delete Assault Centurion, and give the terminators special issue ammunitions (why do the veterans loose it when they wear a TDA ?!).
Obviously, I hate the centurion model, and fluff.

What about chapters that don't have special ammo?

And those Chapters would be.......

Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Grey Knights and Blood Angels I'm pretty sure don't have it either.

Blood Angels have special issue ammunition, but I'm pretty sure Space Wolves and Grey Knight don't^^
I heard that Grey Knight termi were better than the SM's ones, though.
And I'm just fixing 1 codex, not the damn whole GW^^

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 NorseSig wrote:
Terminators with powerfist and storm bolter or twin lightning claws is 25 pts. For regular terminators reduce the cost of upgrades that replace the storm bolter by 5 pts. Cyclone reduced by 5 pts. 2 weapons per 5. TH/SS still +10pts. Add a TH/LC option that is +5pts. Nearly the same changes as a previous post by another. Plus I would reduce the cost of all Landraiders by 75 pts and increase their troop carrying abilities by 4 troops. Term HQ makes terminators troop choices in cad or grants objective secured otherwise.

Tacticals would gain an extra special or heavy weapon (grand total of 3 weapons at 10 men). Or maybe just allow all sergeants to take a heavy or special weapon that the rest of their squads have access to in all SM units. Assault marines should still get the extra weap choice with the sergeant option.

Dreadnoughts of all types would be about 30pts less and venerable upgrade would be 5pts more expensive and give eternal warrior.

If I were fixing IH specifically there would be a lot more I'd do, though they would lose some features like would never gain Term Troops. But those kinds of changes are for a different thread.

Comparison squashing moment here. You've made a model with a veteran statline, 2+/5++, Deep Strike, and a powerfist 25pts. How much are you proposing charging for a model with a veteran statline, 3+, a jump pack, and a power sword? Because he's 27pts under the current rules and it's pretty hard to argue he's better than the Terminator. And once the Vanguard vet is done where does that leave the Grey Knight with no jump pack, a third the number of melee attacks, and a dead-useless psychic power?

The mobility of the Jump pack counts for a lot but you are right i would drop the vanguard vets down to 21 or 22 ppm with packs. They are also a not very good, but nowhere near as bad as terminators as terminators can't get around very well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

pm713 wrote:
What do you mean you'd give Venerable Dreadnoughts eternal warrior? Eternal warrior doesn't apply to them.

Yeah, I got it in my head somehow that eternal warrior did more than it does due to my usually having a gorgon chain. I would have venerable give a 6+ invulnerable save instead of EW. Need more sleep I do.

 NorseSig wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 NorseSig wrote:
Terminators with powerfist and storm bolter or twin lightning claws is 25 pts. For regular terminators reduce the cost of upgrades that replace the storm bolter by 5 pts. Cyclone reduced by 5 pts. 2 weapons per 5. TH/SS still +10pts. Add a TH/LC option that is +5pts. Nearly the same changes as a previous post by another. Plus I would reduce the cost of all Landraiders by 75 pts and increase their troop carrying abilities by 4 troops. Term HQ makes terminators troop choices in cad or grants objective secured otherwise.

Tacticals would gain an extra special or heavy weapon (grand total of 3 weapons at 10 men). Or maybe just allow all sergeants to take a heavy or special weapon that the rest of their squads have access to in all SM units. Assault marines should still get the extra weap choice with the sergeant option.

Dreadnoughts of all types would be about 30pts less and venerable upgrade would be 5pts more expensive and give eternal warrior.

If I were fixing IH specifically there would be a lot more I'd do, though they would lose some features like would never gain Term Troops. But those kinds of changes are for a different thread.

Comparison squashing moment here. You've made a model with a veteran statline, 2+/5++, Deep Strike, and a powerfist 25pts. How much are you proposing charging for a model with a veteran statline, 3+, a jump pack, and a power sword? Because he's 27pts under the current rules and it's pretty hard to argue he's better than the Terminator. And once the Vanguard vet is done where does that leave the Grey Knight with no jump pack, a third the number of melee attacks, and a dead-useless psychic power?

The mobility of the Jump pack counts for a lot but you are right i would drop the vanguard vets down to 21 or 22 ppm with packs. They are also a not very good, but nowhere near as bad as terminators as terminators can't get around very well.

You may have skipped my point a bit. If Terminators need a ten-point drop what are you proposing doing to everything that's cheaper than that right now? What happens to GK Terminators (33pts at the moment), do they need to be 23ppm? What does that mean about Purifiers, why are they now a point more expensive than Terminators?

And it goes down the line and one day you're looking at making grots 1/2ppm and asking yourself where you went wrong.

 godardc wrote:
Blood Angels have special issue ammunition, but I'm pretty sure Space Wolves and Grey Knight don't^^
I heard that Grey Knight termi were better than the SM's ones, though.
And I'm just fixing 1 codex, not the damn whole GW^^

The only reason that the GK ones are good is because they have 2 Wounds. Space Wolves dont need Special Issue ammo cuz they wouldnt use it anyway. Theres a reason its called Codex Thunderwolf.

 Grimmor wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Blood Angels have special issue ammunition, but I'm pretty sure Space Wolves and Grey Knight don't^^
I heard that Grey Knight termi were better than the SM's ones, though.
And I'm just fixing 1 codex, not the damn whole GW^^

The only reason that the GK ones are good is because they have 2 Wounds. Space Wolves dont need Special Issue ammo cuz they wouldnt use it anyway. Theres a reason its called Codex Thunderwolf.

GK terminators only have 1 wound. Its the Paladins that have 2 wounds but they are like ~55 points each stock and those are rarely used due to them being extremely points heavy in an already high ppm army. GK Terminators have the benefit of being able to use Hammerhand and/or Force for their close combat needs plus all the extra psychic defense they (and all GK) have. Being able to use Psycannons (1 per 5) effectively because of relentless is the other benefit.

 godardc wrote:
Blood Angels have special issue ammunition, but I'm pretty sure Space Wolves and Grey Knight don't^^
I heard that Grey Knight termi were better than the SM's ones, though.
And I'm just fixing 1 codex, not the damn whole GW^^

You're making more problems though.

 Lance845 wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Tyranids.
Genestealers, Hermagaunts and Termagaunts.

1. Genestealers and all Gaunts unit type changes to Beasts.
2. Genestealers and Hermagaunts get Bounding Lope.

I'd love to add some actual saves as well but I think that's pushing it on melee units that can potentially cover 30' on the first turn.

These are not really feasible changes without some other wide spread changes. How are you going to keep these guys in synapse? (Not a problem for the genestealers but a major problem for the gaunts and gants).

Same way you keep gargoyles in synapse: Shrikes.

Also, part of my fixing 3 units is giving Shrikes official models, because otherwise in this theoretical new codex there won't be any Shrikes.
2. Give Pyrovores torrent and also beasts
3. feth it, everyone is beasts except MCs and bipedal units. In a codex of practically nothing but beasts, only 1 unit has the beast unit type. What's up with that?
4. Since models aren't actually fixing rules, I'd make Deathleaper unable to be overwatched. You aren't supposed to see him coming anyway. He can already only be snapped at to represent his fleetingness, so overwatch, being more hasty shooting in the face of a charging foe, shouldn't be possible against a thing you can't even see attacking you. An Invuln for him would be nice, too...actually, having more than 1 unit in the codex with an invuln would be nice in general.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 NorseSig wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 NorseSig wrote:
Terminators with powerfist and storm bolter or twin lightning claws is 25 pts. For regular terminators reduce the cost of upgrades that replace the storm bolter by 5 pts. Cyclone reduced by 5 pts. 2 weapons per 5. TH/SS still +10pts. Add a TH/LC option that is +5pts. Nearly the same changes as a previous post by another. Plus I would reduce the cost of all Landraiders by 75 pts and increase their troop carrying abilities by 4 troops. Term HQ makes terminators troop choices in cad or grants objective secured otherwise.

Tacticals would gain an extra special or heavy weapon (grand total of 3 weapons at 10 men). Or maybe just allow all sergeants to take a heavy or special weapon that the rest of their squads have access to in all SM units. Assault marines should still get the extra weap choice with the sergeant option.

Dreadnoughts of all types would be about 30pts less and venerable upgrade would be 5pts more expensive and give eternal warrior.

If I were fixing IH specifically there would be a lot more I'd do, though they would lose some features like would never gain Term Troops. But those kinds of changes are for a different thread.

Comparison squashing moment here. You've made a model with a veteran statline, 2+/5++, Deep Strike, and a powerfist 25pts. How much are you proposing charging for a model with a veteran statline, 3+, a jump pack, and a power sword? Because he's 27pts under the current rules and it's pretty hard to argue he's better than the Terminator. And once the Vanguard vet is done where does that leave the Grey Knight with no jump pack, a third the number of melee attacks, and a dead-useless psychic power?

The mobility of the Jump pack counts for a lot but you are right i would drop the vanguard vets down to 21 or 22 ppm with packs. They are also a not very good, but nowhere near as bad as terminators as terminators can't get around very well.

You may have skipped my point a bit. If Terminators need a ten-point drop what are you proposing doing to everything that's cheaper than that right now? What happens to GK Terminators (33pts at the moment), do they need to be 23ppm? What does that mean about Purifiers, why are they now a point more expensive than Terminators?

And it goes down the line and one day you're looking at making grots 1/2ppm and asking yourself where you went wrong.

This isn't a fix every unit in every codex thread/post. It is a pick the three you think are the worst and fix them as YOU think they should be fixed. I see it as more of a thought exercise than anything. I would say though that at 25ppm for terminators the gk variant would be 3 points more roughly. I find brotherhood of psykers to be a much better rule than most CT to be honest. I felt terminators, tacticals, and dreadnoughts were the three worst units in the SM codex, so I chose them to work on. Doesn't mean there aren't other units that need help. Just that I feel those three are the worst.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Rough Riders, Ratlings, and Commissars
Press "Delete" on the entries.
Fixed!

Bonus Round!:
Auto-Targeting System added back to Hydras(Cover Saves granted by Jink cannot be taken against shots from a Hydra Autocannon; additionally Flyers, Skimmers, and FMCs(and their Gargantuan/Super Heavy variants) cannot move Flat Out when a successful hit is made by a Hydra Autocannon) and Hydra Autocannon is granted the "Wall of Flak" rule(Each successful hit causes a small Blast with centered on the target, causing a S7 AP4 Wound).

Leman Russ variants regain "Lumbering Behemoth" allowing them to fire Ordnance and not have to snap fire Sponson, Hull mounted, or Pintle mounted weapons.

All Sentinel variants gain the "Auspex Tracking" rule:

Auspex Tracking: At the start of each Movement phase, the Sentinel pings its Auspex Trackers before moving. Any enemy unit within 12" of a Sentinel that has pinged its Auspex Trackers suffers a -1 to its Cover Save for the duration of the game turn.

what do you have against commissars? the rough riders could be interesting if THEY HAD MODELS!!

 Dr. Zoidbork wrote:

Wakshaani wrote:
Basic Boys:
Reduce cost to 5 pts/model.
option: Scrap Armor for +1 pt each, provides a SV of 5+
'Eavy Armor at +3 pts/model for 4+ save.
Add Skarboyz option for +1 pt/model in the unit

MEK
Add "May ride a Deffkopta" for + 25 pts.

Burnaboyz, Tankbustas, and Kommandos are all reduced in cost by 1 pt, gain the Scrap and 'Eavy armor options fo +1 pt and +3pts, respectively.

This sounds awfully familiar...

Oh nice! Seems that I'm on the same page as some smarties.
Also, I need to read that project.

ALSO also, I need to talk people into letting me use it. Like, you know ... the guys at GW.

 Grimmor wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Blood Angels have special issue ammunition, but I'm pretty sure Space Wolves and Grey Knight don't^^
I heard that Grey Knight termi were better than the SM's ones, though.
And I'm just fixing 1 codex, not the damn whole GW^^

The only reason that the GK ones are good is because they have 2 Wounds. Space Wolves dont need Special Issue ammo cuz they wouldnt use it anyway. Theres a reason its called Codex Thunderwolf.

The two-wound ones are terrible. The one-wound ones are good because they're cheap and can have Relentless psycannons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NorseSig wrote:
(TRUNCATED)

This isn't a fix every unit in every codex thread/post. It is a pick the three you think are the worst and fix them as YOU think they should be fixed. I see it as more of a thought exercise than anything. I would say though that at 25ppm for terminators the gk variant would be 3 points more roughly. I find brotherhood of psykers to be a much better rule than most CT to be honest. I felt terminators, tacticals, and dreadnoughts were the three worst units in the SM codex, so I chose them to work on. Doesn't mean there aren't other units that need help. Just that I feel those three are the worst.

I'm not suggesting that you fix everything. I'm trying to point out that 'fixing' things should have to take into account the environment. A fix should use some kind of middle point of the game as a goal rather than trying to make things competitive against the most powerful units in the game. Making Terminators a full 10ppm cheaper with no other changes is going overboard by a fair margin.

And as someone who's been playing GK for years and done a lot of work on trying to make them function Brotherhood of Psykers is a dramatically worse special rule than GW (and players) seem to think it is. Before the core-book-psychic-powers push when you had powers that weren't staggeringly useless (risk losing a 20+pt model to give my one attack +2S? Really?) the argument could be made, but right now it's a fairly dead-weight rule.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Grimmor wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Blood Angels have special issue ammunition, but I'm pretty sure Space Wolves and Grey Knight don't^^
I heard that Grey Knight termi were better than the SM's ones, though.
And I'm just fixing 1 codex, not the damn whole GW^^

The only reason that the GK ones are good is because they have 2 Wounds. Space Wolves dont need Special Issue ammo cuz they wouldnt use it anyway. Theres a reason its called Codex Thunderwolf.

The two-wound ones are terrible. The one-wound ones are good because they're cheap and can have Relentless psycannons.

Sorry was thinking last edition when they were great because of that second wound. Now its the psychic shenanigans.

 AnomanderRake wrote:


I'm not suggesting that you fix everything. I'm trying to point out that 'fixing' things should have to take into account the environment. A fix should use some kind of middle point of the game as a goal rather than trying to make things competitive against the most powerful units in the game. Making Terminators a full 10ppm cheaper with no other changes is going overboard by a fair margin.

And as someone who's been playing GK for years and done a lot of work on trying to make them function Brotherhood of Psykers is a dramatically worse special rule than GW (and players) seem to think it is. Before the core-book-psychic-powers push when you had powers that weren't staggeringly useless (risk losing a 20+pt model to give my one attack +2S? Really?) the argument could be made, but right now it's a fairly dead-weight rule.

A *censored* Men. I hate that rule as its the basis of ruining my Pink Horrors. The only units i think its even remotely good on is the Weirdvane Psykers and if GW ever made some Chaos Cultist Sorcerers

Necrons:

All C'tan variants have a 2+ armour save and 4+ FNP in addition to their 4++ invulnerable save (reason: too many gods die to light arms fire currently).

Monolith doesn't scatter when deep striking (reason: underused unit).

Living Metal rules means vehicles ignore any firing restrictions brought on by jinking (reason: doomsday ark and barges never used any more).

There are already some good ones for Orks above.

But I think letting Boyz take a painboy instead of a nob would improve their options. It would free up HQ slots allowing you to run either more of their decent HQs or run a cad instead of horde so you can have object secured. Maybe if your unit is 10+ you get an optional nob, 20+ a weirdboy and 30 you get a pain boy.

For like 650 points you could have 2 warbosses with powerklaws and 60 boyz with 5+ FNP letting you get loads of dakka in elite and heavy slots. Without grot tax for additional HQs or losing objective secured.

Aspects of Thom wrote:
There are already some good ones for Orks above.

But I think letting Boyz take a painboy instead of a nob would improve their options. It would free up HQ slots allowing you to run either more of their decent HQs or run a cad instead of horde so you can have object secured. Maybe if your unit is 10+ you get an optional nob, 20+ a weirdboy and 30 you get a pain boy.

For like 650 points you could have 2 warbosses with powerklaws and 60 boyz with 5+ FNP letting you get loads of dakka in elite and heavy slots. Without grot tax for additional HQs or losing objective secured.

Have a HQ choice for each oddboy type. warboss, big mek, boss dok, warphead. When using one of these as your warlord, it allows you to replace nob characters with the affiliated type for a cost . They all get access to bikes and jetpacks, which then makes the respective army entry a troops choice.

Ruststalkers
- T4 Base
- 3+ Armor

Infiltrators
- T4 Base
- Jump Pack Infantry (teleportation)

Seriously 35 ppm and being that paper thin is insane.

Terminators:

Insert hh variants, all of them, locked to chapters/legions

Land raiders: insert hh versions, standard raider gets heavy 2 Las, heavy 6 heavy bolter

Quad Las goes to 3 shots

Sisters of Battle:

Seraphim:
2 Hand Flamers +5 points
2 Inferno Pistols +10 points

Add Land Raider Redeemer to their motorpool and allow Repentia to take it.

Make AoF more then one use only. Either just pass leadership and go, or have an ability that gives them more during a game.

Imperial Guard:

Leman Russes can move and fire at 6" as if they hadn't moved at all.

Ratlings: Unit Leader of some sort just +1 BS and +1 LD would be nice

M. of Ord.: Can use Artillery Bombardment while in a vehicle and/or on the move.

Orgyn and Bullgryn: Become one unit. 28 points per model (normal orgryn stats and weapons as standard) any model may mix-and-match armor and equipement. If you want an Ogryn with 4+ armor, a slab shield, and ripper gun it's possible. Bonehead should have more options and abilities to have a power weapon.

Leman Russ and varients: Turret weapon doesn't count toward what weapons can fire

Sentinels: 5 points per model drop.

CSM:

Warp Talons:

- Assault from DS.

- Add in assault and defensive grenades that they can't throw, call it Preysight.

- Warp Flame strike should be changed to enemy units auto-blind

- Should add in a rule that they their wounds cause instant death to enemy warlord. Call it "Chosen Prey"

Possessed:

- Daemonic Influence: Gain +3 movement to moving, charging and running.

- Decrease to 15ppm.

Mutilators:

- Can assault from DS.

- Decrease points to 45ppm.

Orks:

- Mob Rule: Change to ignore pinning and Fear. Yes not a direct reversion to 4th ed. but still quite viable.

Boys:

- Change to I:3. I refuse to believe that Orks attack at the same time as a Tau or Necron.

Nobz:

- Big Chappas should get rending.

- Points Decrease to 15ppm.

Kommandos:

- Assault from from Outflank.

- Becomes I: 3.

Although I don't play Tyranids I thought this would be a fun fluffy rule that makes them playing horde different to Ork Horde:

- Endless swarm: if a unit is completely destroyed or fallen back, off the table; At the start of the Tyranid Turn roll a D6 for every unit removed from the board this way: on a 3+ that unit immediately comes back onto the board from the Tyranid players controlling edge as if it came on from ongoing reserves.

Obviously there are so much more you can do but I'm sticking to the restrictions of the OP.