There is no doubt in my mind that Space Marines could beat Superman. My question is how many of them would it take?

They cannot beat Superman, because he is essentially immune to physical damage.

That said, a single Librarian could probably just destroy his mind. He is not mentally prepared to resist Warp powers.

They can't. In any story which had Space Marines and Superman, the genetically modified killer machines would be the bad guys. And Bad guys ultimately can't beat Superman. Only another Superhero can't beat Superman.

Now Space Marines against a single Kryptonian. The SM probably lose a company or three before killing him. The rest of the Chapter dies when the Kryptonian's friends show up.

To give a factual scientific answer we need more details:

1) Do the Space Marines have access to plastic thunderhawk kits?
2) Is there any comp system?
3) Can the Space Marines take Forge World units?
4) Who wrote Codex: Kryptona Militarum?

.. think he might be a bit much for anything other than anything magical or a whole C'tan.

How well does Superman do when he’s not hanging out near a yellow sun?

Venue is a big deal for this fight.

 Nevelon wrote:
How well does Superman do when he’s not hanging out near a yellow sun?

Venue is a big deal for this fight.

He probably has enough residual energy from metabolizing yellow sun energy for so long to keep him going for a while, or just be in his special Superman suit that he uses against red sun radiation or kryptonite.

What if they are Chaos Space Marines? Superman is weak to magic...

Same as everything with Superman. If they have Kryptonite then one. If not none of them can.

Physically? Nope. The primarchs could probably give him a fight, but you can't damage him. Believe me, this has been discussed to hell and back between myself and my friends, along with marvel and star wars.

However, to my knowledge Supes is rather vulnerable to mental attacks/sorcery, yes? There is plenty of that in 40k.
If you insist of fighting him mano la mano, then you need kryptonite or some 40k equivalent, maybe those handy little anathame's or a tyranid toxin.

Mudrat wrote:

However, to my knowledge Supes is rather vulnerable to mental attacks/sorcery, yes? There is plenty of that in 40k.
If you insist of fighting him mano la mano, then you need kryptonite or some 40k equivalent, maybe those handy little anathame's or a tyranid toxin.

Superman no more vulnerable to magic than a human (and I'm pretty sure he can recover faster) but yes it affects him. However pure telekinesis doesn't do great again him and in some comics he's been trained against mental attacks (mind control etc) if I recall correctly.

A group of Librarians are the most likely to be capable of defeating him. Or him disregarding a grenade and it turns about to be a vortex grenade. Power weapons might actually be able to hurt him as they soften the bonds between molecules right?

Really though more information on the scenario is required. Which version of Superman (the scan posted was from Silver Age Superman so doesn't apply to current Superman), is he willing to kill, is he willing to destroy planets, does he care about civilian casualties? If he's completely bloodlusted he'd probably wipe out the Astartes single handedly. If he stops or slows too much in a battle he could get taken down.

Superman has withstood nuclear blasts and literally moved planets. As in, plural. As there is no kryptonite in 40k, he is essentially invulnerable to physical harm.

His main vulnerability has been magic, and even then, it depends on which incarnation of superman-- in his more experienced incarnations, he knows some small amounts of magic himself, and is capable of breaking mind control eventually.

Combat-wise, superman is as broke as broke gets.

Space Marine psycher smokes him with a primaris power.

"Brother Dudeman, what was that"?

"Just some mutant, very strong and resilient, so I just fragged his psyche, he will make an excellent servitor".

They wouldn't have to mind control him, they could do much..much worse.

But this is a DC hero, probably the worst writing and Mary Sueing in history. Matt Ward and Marneus Calgar even shake their heads at it.

They'd need Kryptonite to hurt him physically, since that's the only thing that can.

I do believe Supperman (no typo there) has a weak mind (in terms of magicy stuffs) so psykers could probably bring him down a notch. Any of the super tough SM guys could put up a fight (chapter masters/primarchs mainly) and might be able to weaken him but that's about it.

He actually has some pretty strong willpower, due to his experience of having fought against such things so many times. But no stronger than any other well-trained and combat-experienced human's mind. I'd compare his willpower and mental defenses to an Inquisitor's, for example-- minus the gadgets they have to block psychic power, they can put up a decent fight against psychic powers with their legendary iron will... but eventually they, like anyone else, will fall unless they defeat their opponent first.

I'm not sure y'all get just how ridiculously fast Superman is if he's not pulling his punches. No psyker is going to even be able to start thinking about using a power before they get wiped out by him.

Speed > Everything else, and Superman is orders of magnitude faster than everything in the 40k universe.

 Robin5t wrote:
I'm not sure y'all get just how ridiculously fast Superman is if he's not pulling his punches. No psyker is going to even be able to start thinking about using a power before they get wiped out by him.

Speed > Everything else, and Superman is orders of magnitude faster than everything in the 40k universe.

I dunno if I'd say all of 40k. Comicvine says Emps stomps him, for example:

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/superman-vs-god-emperor-398166/

That said, I think only Noise Marines and Librarians have a chance since Supes is vulnerable to magic and sound blasts effect him somewhat normally.

Superman is the original "OP Can-never-lose Mary Sue."

Has any power that you can imagine (many of which are only used once and are OP in their own right), and is nigh invincible. Even the "famous" kryptonite doesn't do anything sometimes!

He doesn't even die. Just kinda goes into a sort a coma and regenerates because OP.

I still question how he is a interesting character as he is so OP. But other people like him and that's fine.




The only feasible way a Space Marine could win... was if the writer was on the Space Marines side and therefore gave them Plot Armor (the strongest armor of all creation).

Although in theory Superman could be defeated easily through a little brain power but every single foe to go against him doesn't even bother.

'Ere there be Trolls!

I'm thinking that barring kryptonite, you're going to have to go with something more oddball. Like Stasis fields or a Vortex Grenade/Power.

Green flame wrote:
There is no doubt in my mind that Space Marines could beat Superman. My question is how many of them would it take?

Supeman can:

-Punch at the speed of light. The resulting collision has the energy of a nuclear bomb.
-Fly around the earth so fast that he can reverse time.
-Fly. Just.. Just... Flies.
-See through walls/armour/your underwear.
-Shoot layzors out of his eyes.
-Resist immense to unlimited physical damage.
-Throw buildings.
-Bench press the universe.


Space Marines can:

-Fall asleep really well.
-Take memories from their food.
-Spit Acid.
-Lift up to a few tons.
-Run like a Kenyan.
-Breathe underwater.
-Punch like a hydraulic press.
-Lose all their limbs without bleeding to death.
-Fire an RPG-machinegun.

I think Superman wins out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 reds8n wrote:

Spoiler:

.. think he might be a bit much for anything other than anything magical or a whole C'tan.

Yeah... About the only thing that is going to work (assuming the writer is not a biased fethtard in favour of marines) is a full C'tan. Being a reality-warper, it can just wish that Superman had never been born.

And so Superman found out that what is called Adamantium in the 40k universe is really Kryptonite.
Did you see that blue mutant heretic coming, brother Artius? Yeah i am still cleaning its gore of my armor.

 Selym wrote:

Green flame wrote:
There is no doubt in my mind that Space Marines could beat Superman. My question is how many of them would it take?

-Fly around the earth so fast that he can reverse time.

I don't get it... is this like that relativistic thing where the closer to speed of light you are the slower time is? So if he went faster than the speed of light time flows backwards for him Thanks for any clear up, I don't think I've watched any superman movies.

No, he reversed rhe Earth's rotation and undid a certain amount of time.

 Selym wrote:
No, he reversed rhe Earth's rotation and undid a certain amount of time.

Strange. But, I suppose if he was travelling 'back in time' around the world, then from his perspective the earth would turn backwards and he would end up at an earlier point in time (to the point where he 'undid a certain amount of time')?

Can't quite remember, but iirc the premise was that his speed didn't matter for the time travel, just his ability to reverse the earth's rotation...

Anyway, here's a look at some of his powers:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powers_and_abilities_of_Superman

 Selym wrote:
Can't quite remember, but iirc the premise was that his speed didn't matter for the time travel, just his ability to reverse the earth's rotation...

Anyway, here's a look at some of his powers:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powers_and_abilities_of_Superman

Hmmm. Well that's odd. Having the earth rotate backwards would be a nifty way to show Superman's perspective of time passing backwards... whereas the earth spinning backwards somehow making time flow backwards just doesn't make sense to me :S.

Movies/comics, eh?

Space marines vs Superman could be an interesting novel, as they try catch him in a stasis trap or something. Suffer not the xenos to live!

Vortex or statis grenades would likely be best bet. Especially vortex since he would be trapped in another realm with no way out. Even if he could survive there...best hope would be chaos gods deciding he creates enough chaos to send him back

Have to say I never really liked Superman for the very reason that fuels this thread, he's nigh on invincible and has only one weakness, it makes him very dull. Plus he's such a damn goodie goodie. It makes me want to throw up how much of a po faced Boy Scout he is, and his alter ego Clark Kent is even worse! Bleck!

The first group of space marines who are in contact with him will most likely all die. Superman can't move faster than the speed of light. So you don't need to beat him you just need to trap him on some backwater world.

Take your loses and move on the next time you will lose an other world will be in over 1000 years.

 oldzoggy wrote:
The first group of space marines who are in contact with him will most likely all die. Superman can't move faster than the speed of light.

He travels between star systems in the space of single comics... The closest star to us is over 4 light years away. Superman travels to various stars and returns to find the world as he left it - space travel for him is a daytrip.

One of the most blatant space marine fanboy topics I've seen in a long time. No they would get crushed. The end. Even the primarchs would.

 Gamgee wrote:
One of the most blatant space marine fanboy topics I've seen in a long time. No they would get crushed. The end. Even the primarchs would.

Psykers will fix it.

Nah he fights all sorts of magic users, psions, mutants, and world ending threats stronger than anything 40k could bring to bear barring the Emperor or deity levels which the whole Justice League would take on (and win). That's what makes them superheroes.

The Alpha Legion would know about him before he knows about them. Then they'd stealth psychic shriek him, stealth blast him with kryptonite (if he exists then so does his kryptonite) or more likely use him as a puppet for their own ends

He has never encountered the Warp before.

A Vortex of Doom will do it.

Or a SAG...

Pfft not likely he travels to alternate universes all the time to fight stuff and makes his way back in time for lunch. The only credibly threat to him I can think of is Goku and even then he could blow up the planet leaving Goku out of air and dying. Saitamaman is also able to defeat him (one punch man).

Space Marines stand no chance. The Emperor in his prime might. The chaos gods and the warp would be a cool one year long comic arc for the justice league to punt into irrelevancy.

 oldzoggy wrote:
The first group of space marines who are in contact with him will most likely all die. Superman can't move faster than the speed of light. So you don't need to beat him you just need to trap him on some backwater world.

Take your loses and move on the next time you will lose an other world will be in over 1000 years.

Depends on what version we are talking about:

His top speeds have ranged from nearly a hundred miles per hour when he was first created in the 1930s to speeds surpassing the speed of light

The thing is, even if he doesn't move at the speed of light, he definitely move "faster than thought", therefore he would kill a psyker before said psyker could even begin to use his powers. So he would have to be taken by surprise for the psyker brain deep fry trick to work.

Psykers can slow time.

 Ashiraya wrote:
They cannot beat Superman, because he is essentially immune to physical damage.

That said, a single Librarian could probably just destroy his mind. He is not mentally prepared to resist Warp powers.

Good point there about the Librarian, would not have thought about that.

Yeah, as straight forward combat goes Superman is just completely overpowered, literally invincible. But yeah, I could see a psyker using warp energy to take him down, possibly getting Superman to destroy himself.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Psykers can slow time.

The really powerful ones can do lots of weird gak. The average psyker (including most librarians, as there's no evidence librarians are any more powerful psychically than the average psyker) wouldn't really have that capability, and almost invariably in doing so they would be putting themselves at grave risk in trying.

 Melissia wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Psykers can slow time.

The really powerful ones can do lots of weird gak. The average psyker (including most librarians, as there's no evidence librarians are any more powerful psychically than the average psyker) wouldn't really have that capability, and almost invariably in doing so they would be putting themselves at grave risk in trying.

In DoW2, the Librarian can speed up the time for others (considerably improving them in battle) or speed up himself massively - or use both on himself at once!

Librarians have access to similar psychic powers in the miniatures game, such as the Veil of Time power.

And in this case, speeding up yourself or slowing down Superman yields much the same result. They only need a very brief burst of speed rather than the sustained effect they otherwise need to use more carefully.

 Ashiraya wrote:
In DoW2, the Librarian can speed up the time for others (considerably improving them in battle) or speed up himself massively - or use both on himself at once!

Let me introduce you to a little concept called "gameplay and story segregation".

 Melissia wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
In DoW2, the Librarian can speed up the time for others (considerably improving them in battle) or speed up himself massively - or use both on himself at once!

Let me introduce you to a little concept called "gameplay and story segregation".

He uses the same spells in 40k, though? Quickening, Veil of Time, they are still here and work similarly in their descriptions.

DoW2 is a support, not the foundation.

There were time manipulation powers for minor psykers in Necromunda (see the outlander supplement or 2nd edition of the game).

Engrenages wrote:
The thing is, even if he doesn't move at the speed of light, he definitely move "faster than thought", therefore he would kill a psyker before said psyker could even begin to use his powers. So he would have to be taken by surprise for the psyker brain deep fry trick to work.

This all doesn't really matter does it. Space is really big and superman is sort of a power stuck in slowspace. It will take hundreds if not thousands of years for superman to travel from one star system to an other one. I wonder if he would even be considered a real danger to humanity before a few thousands of years. Sure he is nasty, but I have the strangest idea that some dark power might influence a psyker to start a search for kryptonite. Tzeentch and other powers will not allow superman to kill off humanity since it is their main source of power, but space marines will be totally useless until then.

Assuming no FTL Superman, why couldn't (or wouldn't) Superman hijack something warp capable?

He isn't a Navigator. He'd get lost in the Warp.

A kryptonite power sword cares not how dense your skin is!

 Ashiraya wrote:
He isn't a Navigator. He'd get lost in the Warp.

True, though he could cajole one into working for him.

This does lead to the question of whether or not a Navigator's eye would kill him outright. Space Marines would have them on their ships right?

 oldzoggy wrote:

Engrenages wrote:
The thing is, even if he doesn't move at the speed of light, he definitely move "faster than thought", therefore he would kill a psyker before said psyker could even begin to use his powers. So he would have to be taken by surprise for the psyker brain deep fry trick to work.

This all doesn't really matter does it. Space is really big and superman is sort of a power stuck in slowspace. It will take hundreds if not thousands of years for superman to travel from one star system to an other one. I wonder if he would even be considered a real danger to humanity before a few thousands of years. Sure he is nasty, but I have the strangest idea that some dark power might influence a psyker to start a search for kryptonite. Tzeentch and other powers will not allow superman to kill off humanity since it is their main source of power, but space marines will be totally useless until then.

Since he can move to another solar system and back without earthlings missing him that indicates he can go pretty darn fast...Def not thousands of years. He can go FTL on his own. Swoosh and he's moving pretty darn fast. He would in a way be even more reliable space traveller than IOM since he doesn't need to use the unreliable and dangerous warp to do that!

 oldzoggy wrote:
It will take hundreds if not thousands of years for superman to travel from one star system to an other one.

More like at most five minutes to go from the star closest to the sun to end up on Earth.

Or, in other words, Supes can travel at or above 530,000 times the speed of light.

And I'm serious when I say that's not even the fastest that Superman has traveled. You think GW's writers have no sense of scale? You should see DC's writers.

 Ashiraya wrote:
He isn't a Navigator. He'd get lost in the Warp.

Obviously he'd hijack something good, something with a real Navigator in!

nareik wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
He isn't a Navigator. He'd get lost in the Warp.

Obviously he'd hijack something good, something with a real Navigator in!

He'd tie an indestructible material between himself and a retribution class battleship. Then, he would throw the Retty to his destination so hard that it would get there within about 5 minutes. The rope would pull him along.

Need to get from Terra to the Ghoul Stars? Take the SUPERRETRIBUTION EXPRESS!

 oldzoggy wrote:

Engrenages wrote:
The thing is, even if he doesn't move at the speed of light, he definitely move "faster than thought", therefore he would kill a psyker before said psyker could even begin to use his powers. So he would have to be taken by surprise for the psyker brain deep fry trick to work.

This all doesn't really matter does it. Space is really big and superman is sort of a power stuck in slowspace. It will take hundreds if not thousands of years for superman to travel from one star system to an other one. I wonder if he would even be considered a real danger to humanity before a few thousands of years. Sure he is nasty, but I have the strangest idea that some dark power might influence a psyker to start a search for kryptonite. Tzeentch and other powers will not allow superman to kill off humanity since it is their main source of power, but space marines will be totally useless until then.

He has been shown flying between star systems in a matter of minutes, which is decidedly faster than the speed of light.

Superman might go FTL on its own in his part of the universe but 40ks Terra is clearly situated in the slow zone where no FTL is possible by just going really fast. Let's at least use some basic rules for reality. Otherwise we could just end the story with draigo cutting his heart out because he needed his blood for a new ritual, or superman destroying the IoM with an unlucky sneeze.

 oldzoggy wrote:
Superman might go FTL on its own in his part of the universe but 40ks Terra is clearly situated in the slow zone where no FTL is possible by just going really fast. Let's at least use some basic rules for reality. Otherwise we could just end the story with draigo cutting his heart out because he needed his blood for a new ritual, or superman destroying the IoM with an unlucky sneeze.

Evidence that Superman cannot go FTL in 40k?

Evidence that the Space Marines aren't in a DC comic?

 oldzoggy wrote:
Superman might go FTL on its own in his part of the universe but 40ks Terra is clearly situated in the slow zone where no FTL is possible by just going really fast. Let's at least use some basic rules for reality. Otherwise we could just end the story with draigo cutting his heart out because he needed his blood for a new ritual, or superman destroying the IoM with an unlucky sneeze.

Obviously you can't compare if you don't assume one sides powers are in effect. Otherwise you can just arque superman isn't powerful in 40k because "reasons".

40k terra and superman's terra are same universum(both are working on idea it's THIS realm we exists) so superman's abilities are in play as described in his cannon. Otherwise there's no point even trying to compare because you would be basically rewriting one side to fit your own scenario.

edit: Also arqument goes both ways. Who says it's superman going to 40k's realm? Why not otherwise so now superman's realitys laws disable marines equipment, superhuman, vortex&static grenades and psychic powers. And since warp doesn't exists it's now SPACE MARINES who are slow as hell while SM is flying around faster than light...

Seeing space marines are generally the invaders and SM is defender of good it's more logical they would come into contact by space marines doing invasion to superman's realm than otherway around...

I like the approach of fire upon the deep look it up for f you haven't read it it makes perfect sense to limit the abilities of powers to a local reality. Importing 40k marines into supermans space probably somewhere in the beyond would not end well at all. Just try to imagine a librarian in fast time they would practically become friction less conduits for the warp powers.

But my approach was also an attempt too weed out all the unlikely / boosty crap some weaker writers have put in their stories. If we include that mess then the only thing that matters would be who would write the story.

This thread is silly.
The fact that I come in here to just say that this thread is silly is also silly.
Also, Superman really needs to do something about that horrible greasy hair of his. And someone tell him that that hairstyle went out of fashion about 50 years ago. And that Batman is just way cooler.

 oldzoggy wrote:
I like the approach of fire upon the deep look it up for f you haven't read it it makes perfect sense to limit the abilities of powers to a local reality. Importing 40k marines into supermans space probably somewhere in the beyond would not end well at all. Just try to imagine a librarian in fast time they would practically become friction less conduits for the warp powers.

But my approach was also an attempt too weed out all the unlikely / boosty crap some weaker writers have put in their stories. If we include that mess then the only thing that matters would be who would write the story.

So... let's nerf superman until the Space Marines have a hope at beating him?

In which case, they still can't beat Superman, because they needed us to place artificial restrictions on him to do so.

Space Marines cannot defeat Superman. So they call in the ULTRAMARINES!

Superman uses FTL Punch!

Ultramarine counters with Indestructible Plot Armour!

Unstopable Force has met Immovable Object!

K lets have it your way and include all the bat gak insane obscure stuff writers have ever written about them.

Superman a would be a power. He is invincible to all but kryptonite and faster than light. The moment super man starts to eradicate the vermin that is the IoM will spell the final doom for it. Space marines will fall, planets will crumble and in a few hours the entire IoM is thing if the past.

But wait things go both ways. The tzeentch will notice this tragedy and thus has from that moment always known of it. Giving him from before the beginning of time to plan ahead for it and prevent the fall of chaos. Preparing those space marines who are first to meet him with kryptonite armour and shells without them even knowing what it is good for.

Etc. Etc.
You see this include all the nonsense you can find is no fun at all

 oldzoggy wrote:
Space marines will fall, planets will crumble and in a few hours

Nope.

99.9999% of planets function just fine without Space Marines, and are defended just fine without Space Marines.

This all needs a little background, why are they fighting in the first place? What's the objective? etc.

For example: If Space Marines came to DC earth, and they're doing a little information gathering. . .

SM Commander: "So, you have an alien superpower defending your planet?"

Knowledgeable Citizen: "That's right. He's tough as balls and almost no weaknesses."

"Almost no weaknesses?"

"Well, except for Kryptonite."

"And where can I find this. . . 'Kryptonite?"

In that case they'd also have to deal with the other thousands of super-powerful beings defending Earth... and the ones beyond Earth, too, and the villains, and so on and so forth. It's kind of a wash really, and something which even dedicated writers would have a tough time handling.

 Melissia wrote:
In that case they'd also have to deal with the other thousands of super-powerful beings defending Earth... and the ones beyond Earth, too, and the villains, and so on and so forth. It's kind of a wash really, and something which even dedicated writers would have a tough time handling.

Well, the given scenario is Superman Vs. Space Marines, Not all the DC universe etc.vs. Space Marines.

If the objective is just to get superman, and there's kryptonite around, that's were things get interesting.

It doesn't get interesting even then. It's a VS matchup between two wildly different characters from two wildly different settings with wildly different outlooks.

Hell, the only reason they might even begin to stand a chance is that Superman wouldn't immediately try to kill. And even then, even IF they get kryptonite... Superman already has access to armor that protects him from its radiation-- created with technology far beyond the Imperium's, at that. If they're allowed to have time to find out Superman's weakness, then why wouldn't Supes have time to counter it?

It's just another boring "superman vs x" discussion that kind of defeats the purpose of Superman to begin with. Superman at his best is not about him punching things to death. Superman is about the struggle about what is the right thing to do, whether or not he is doing it correctly, and standing up for justice as an otherworldly protector of innocents and the defenseless. In fact, his best comic-book appearances often don't have him fighting at all.

Well, that's why context and circumstances matter. Look, if Gene Hackman can foil Superman by putting Kryptonite in a lead box, the Sup can be duped. Which is why Lex is a great foil for him in the first place. You don't fight Superman with strength.

But your last point is spot on. Focusing on "Superman is HUURR" is totally beside the point. His dilemmas are usually about morality.

However, that's also why it gets interesting. It's totally against his nature to start off the encounter with wanton slaughter.

But you also have to remember that in this kind of narrative, ultimately, Superman wins, while ultimately, within the 40k narrative the Astartes will fail and falter-- either falling to chaos, or fighting a futile battle against the ravages of time to defend an aging empire.

Even when superman dies (spoiler: it's happened a few times by now), he still wins in the end. And then comes back, usually better than before.

A more interesting DC vs 40K battle would be Batfamily vs Genestealers, heh.

 oldzoggy wrote:
I like the approach of fire upon the deep look it up for f you haven't read it it makes perfect sense to limit the abilities of powers to a local reality. Importing 40k marines into supermans space probably somewhere in the beyond would not end well at all. Just try to imagine a librarian in fast time they would practically become friction less conduits for the warp powers.

But my approach was also an attempt too weed out all the unlikely / boosty crap some weaker writers have put in their stories. If we include that mess then the only thing that matters would be who would write the story.

It's silly to start artificially decide on what abilities to remove from SM. That works both way. Fine you limit SM's abilities. Let's limit space marine abilities as well. No warp for them either then.

Okay so now we have space marines with no psychic powers and no FTL for them either.

There. Both were nerfed.

Are you space marine fan boy or what if you are limiting just super man and not space marines? Why space marines are given free pass of nerfbat while super man is nerfed? Tells just that you are desperate for space marines to win.

It isn't about nerfing or anything like that. Nor do I have a fetish for glorified space barbarians. Its about seeing the powers in the context of an environment. Sure a hawk is fast but will he be faster then a sea turtle in the depths of the sea. No of course not he will drown.

I like to apply the same mindset to issues like these. Superman is da bomb gak in a world that has no limiting laws of nature. The 40k universe does. The max speed of light is a constant and a limiting factor on anything in the universe. Noting can escape it without cheating reality by vanishing into an other dimension. He can still fire lazors with his eyes and evaporate any space marine in sight without ever having to fear regular weapons. The book "a fire upon the deep"goes into a similar situation and I really like their approach.

I just can't go for the alternative, and somehow make superman immune to all the laws of nature of the 40k universe. It opens up the nonsensical but my side can do X type of discussions that are incredibly boring.

But I will give an other go at it for your amusement.
Lets assume that SuperMan is the coolest guy that has ever existed and somehow immune to the laws of nature he will even be able to travel back in time as long as he isn't near his mythical kryptonite. This immediately opens up the time travel paradox for both sides have some control over the past and would eventually be forced to use this control.

We have 3 actors in this story.
The man himself, with a fixed birth date and the ability to travel back and forth in time.
Warp based powers who are beyond time and have no defined birth time anymore their birth rewrites history making them to have been always there.
And there are puny space marine pawns who will just die and are in over their heads.

From this moment on there are only 2 options as far as I see it.
Option 1: Superman behaves, some marines die but that's it. The powers don't mind and anything goes as planned.

Option 2: Superman doesn't behave and starts to seriously annoy some powers. The powers fight back starting an arms race. Superman will eventually use his time travel powers to undo some of the nasty stuff, and the powers will react by making sure that superman was never born. He can't do the same so depending on your favorite time travel paradox paradigm superman will never have been in the 40k universe or will not do any further damage.

When your premise is "Superman does not get most of his powers" it is not really Superman vs Space Marines.
Rather, it is "Nerfed Superman: Can Space Maribes beat that?"

 oldzoggy wrote:
It isn't about nerfing or anything like that. Nor do I have a fetish for glorified space barbarians. Its about seeing the powers in the context of an environment. Sure a hawk is fast but will he be faster then a sea turtle in the depths of the sea. No of course not he will drown.

I like to apply the same mindset to issues like these. Superman is da bomb gak in a world that has no limiting laws of nature. The 40k universe does. The max speed of light is a constant and a limiting factor on anything in the universe. Noting can escape it without cheating reality by vanishing into an other dimension. He can still fire lazors with his eyes and evaporate any space marine in sight without ever having to fear regular weapons. The book "a fire upon the deep"goes into a similar situation and I really like their approach.

Both Tyranids and Necrons have FTL that does not use the Warp. Potentially the Tau do as well.

I'd ignore the time travel myself. It's incredibly rare that Superman is described as being able to do it. Not sure if it's been done since the Silver Age actually. We really need to decide on a consistent Superman to use.

Do those drives work by just going really fast in real space or do they still use some sort of dimensional trickery ?


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As far as I know of do they use the folliwing methods.

Tau: Reverse engineered warp engines and do small navigator free semi warp jumps.

Tyranids: are supposed to have some sort of obscure fluff about bending space time and creating corridors in it to move from point a to point b.
I have no idea at all why they don't use this as a weapon if they would really be capable to do this, but hey.

Necrons: Are parasiteing on the web way, in a crude and risky way.

Non are just going really fast and violating the speed of light as far as I know of/

 oldzoggy wrote:
Do those drives work by just going really fast in real space or do they still use some sort of dimensional trickery ?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As far as I know of do they use the folliwing methods.

Tau: Reverse engineered warp engines and do small navigator free semi warp jumps.

Tyranids: are supposed to have some sort of obscure fluff about bending space time and creating corridors in it to move from point a to point b.
I have no idea at all why they don't use this as a weapon if they would really be capable to do this, but hey.

Necrons: Are parasiteing on the web way, in a crude and risky way.

Non are just going really fast and violating the speed of light as far as I know of/

The Slaugth are noted as having a method of interstellar travel that doesn't use the warp.

Yes but so do all the eldar races. Do the Slaugth just go very fast or do they also have a secret way of cheating realspace ?

Honestly, it's left rather vague, the only thing we know is that they can travel interstellar without using either of the other existing methods.

The Slaugth are a very high-tech race, though, it should be noted, possibly even better than the Eldar in certain fields.

 oldzoggy wrote:
Do those drives work by just going really fast in real space or do they still use some sort of dimensional trickery ?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As far as I know of do they use the folliwing methods.

Tau: Reverse engineered warp engines and do small navigator free semi warp jumps.

Tyranids: are supposed to have some sort of obscure fluff about bending space time and creating corridors in it to move from point a to point b.
I have no idea at all why they don't use this as a weapon if they would really be capable to do this, but hey.

Necrons: Are parasiteing on the web way, in a crude and risky way.

Non are just going really fast and violating the speed of light as far as I know of/

Warp travel for the Tau is not mentioned in the 6th Edition Codex if I recall correctly. Considering the Necrons apparently can't use Warp travel because they have no Psykers whether the Tau still use short dips is up for debate.

Tyranid Narvhals work by latching onto a planets gravity and drawing themselves (and the rest of the fleet) towards it somehow. This has a side effect of increasing the numbers of earthquakes, volcanic eruptions etc) on the planet they've connected to.

Necrons still have the Inertialess Drives. How they work wasn't elaborated on as far as I know but it's not Warp related.

Superman breaks the laws of physics just by being able to fly as far as I know. Unless you strip away almost all of his powers he's going to breaking the laws of physics. 40K does that a lot anyway so I don't really see the problem.

Is Matt Ward writing the fight?

 The_Grey_Knight wrote:
Is Matt Ward writing the fight?

If he is, Superman wins until the ULTRAMARINES consult their codex, and we learn that Girlyman foresaw this sort of encounter and has a perfect counter-strategyvthat nobidy else in the universe could have thought of. Long, terribly written, story short: Rawbutt returns to save everyone and makes the ULTRAMARINES even more perfect than before.

Superman dies from a single punch from Rowboat, who just so happens to have Kryptonite knuckle braces.

 Melissia wrote:
But you also have to remember that in this kind of narrative, ultimately, Superman wins, while ultimately, within the 40k narrative the Astartes will fail and falter-- either falling to chaos, or fighting a futile battle against the ravages of time to defend an aging empire.

Even when superman dies (spoiler: it's happened a few times by now), he still wins in the end. And then comes back, usually better than before. .

Truly, I don't understand the logic here. It sounds suspiciously like "Superman wins because Superman." Which isn't unlike "Ultramarines win because Ultramarines" or whatever.

If the reasoning is more that Superman wins in the DC universe because that's the narrative of the DC universe. . . that Superman HAS to triumph because of what he stands for. (is that what you're saying?) Then I suppose that could be the case for a battle in the DC universe.

But then the flipside is the 40K universe, which you could take in a couple of ways. (I disagree with the notion that Space Marines are ultimately destined to fail, btw.) But if we were to take 40K as the pessimistic lack of hope, where any individual is eventually overrun by the galaxy at large and the straining leviathan that is the Imperium, then Superman, as a beacon of hope, HAS to fail. His story turns into one of a nameless Chapters hard fought battle with a powerful xenos, who wasn't destroyed but trapped on a world with arcane technologies, and left in a backwater and quarantined corner of the galaxy. One of those quips in those 40K "timelines". Because of the 40K narrative, that's all he counts for, a footnote.

Another interpretation of 40K is that Space Marines, despite all their crude faults, are still a triumph of human ingenuity. The narrative is that they win because they are still an agent of science and reason, even if existing in an otherwise tremendously ignorant society at large. In the 40K verse, humanity can't look to aliens to be their savior, the have to struggle through it themselves the hard way.

 oldzoggy wrote:
The book "a fire upon the deep"goes into a similar situation and I really like their approach.

I read that one two years ago and it left a mark. One of my favorite reads of recent years, the 'Blight' was a great nemesis.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Truly, I don't understand the logic here.

Yes, I can tell.

Simply put: I was discussing the narratives of DCU vs 40k. One is one of rising heroics, the other one is of declining heroics. This is relevant because people keep bringing up more and more ways in which some Space Marine or other obtains kryptonite-- ignoring the fact that even when Superman's enemies DO obtain Kryptonite, even when they DO kill him, he comes back and wins anyway. Because that's the narrative of the DCU.

The heroes of the DCU are always struggling to be greater, and succeed time and again. Great feats of heroism push the world to greater heights, and only more and more deadly, clever, and/or unpredictable foes can upset the new status quo. Its list of heroes is growing, as is their deeds and accomplishments-- and when just one dies, it's a major event. Because they're not supposed to. They face unimaginable odds and succeed-- perhaps imperfectly, perhaps temporarily, perhaps only eventually, but they succeed nonetheless. When the villains win, it's a shocking and rare event-- and often gets overturned rather quickly, if not instantly.

By contrast, the Imperium of Man is in decline. Its heroes die by the billion, nameless and forgotten. Its legends fade away in to the annals of time as either corpses who fought against overwhelming odds and held off as long as they could... or as nefarious, corrupted criminals who seek to destroy all that is good about humanity. Even the Ultramarines suffer this, having lost so much in the Tyrannic wars that they're a pale shadow of what they used to be. Just comparing 30k to 40k shows this much. The villains usually win, which is why the Imperium is slowly, inevitably shrinking.

The thread has basically ended up being "well let's see how we can twist the situation to ensure Superman loses", and ultimately, that's pointless, a little bit mean-spirited, and does a disservice to both Superman and the Astartes.

How about Kryptonite, the deadliest venom known to man and cryostas- ah wait, think that's been done before...

Also since when did Superman vs. Space Marines need 3 pages of discussion?

What if the BLHUD RHEVERNS steal Superman's powers?

Even in the DC universe, that's gotta be an issue.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

Superman breaks the laws of physics just by being able to fly as far as I know. Unless you strip away almost all of his powers he's going to breaking the laws of physics. 40K does that a lot anyway so I don't really see the problem.

Breaking minor stuff such as flying heroes etc doesn't really matter in most settings.
Breaking the limiting factor of the speed of light does since it is a major theme of most good syfi and the 40k setting.
Space is very big, no empire can exist without intergalactic travel but no known force can escape the slowness of realspace thus all races have to go to great lengths in order to cheat it. Humans even travel trough hell in order to overcome it.
Being able to just go very fast isn't breaking some insignificant laws of nature it is breaking the setting.

Who do you think Roboute Gulliman actually is anyway?

 Llamahead wrote:
Who do you think Roboute Gulliman actually is anyway?

The most perfectest strategist ever. He is able to predict every move Superman makes before Superman makes them.

 Selym wrote:

 Llamahead wrote:
Who do you think Roboute Gulliman actually is anyway?

The most perfectest strategist ever. He is able to predict every move Superman makes before Superman makes them.

In fact he already has. It's one of the more obscure chapters of the Codex Astartes.

 Melissia wrote:
A more interesting DC vs 40K battle would be Batfamily vs Genestealers, heh.

I don't have that. But I have Batman - Dead End.


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 Happyjew wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 Llamahead wrote:
Who do you think Roboute Gulliman actually is anyway?

The most perfectest strategist ever. He is able to predict every move Superman makes before Superman makes them.

In fact he already has. It's one of the more obscure chapters of the Codex Astartes.

Are you talking about that guy that couldn't predict the whole Horus Heresy?
He sure has an eye for details .

Sternguard veterans with kryptonite bolter rounds. Marines win. Either Ultramarines or Imperial Fists, naturally.

Suffer not the alien to live!

 Traditio wrote:
Sternguard veterans with kryptonite bolter rounds. Marines win. Either Ultramarines or Imperial Fists, naturally.

Suffer not the alien to live!

And where are they getting these magical kryptonite bolter rounds?
How well would Kryptonite bolter rounds even work? Would Kryptonite function perfectly as a substitute material? Or would the stress be so high, that the Kryptonite is destroyed upon exiting the barrel?

For those saying Superman doesn't have any psychic powers, I have a question. We know he can fly, but how? How does Superman simply ignore the pull of gravity (when convenient) but in addition propel himself through space? There is no thrust, no need of air current (although he does stick his arms forward) and yet he can achieve light speed by sheer force of will. Super telekinesis? Bending reality by thought? Sounds like a pretty spectacularly gifted psyker to me.

 Happyjew wrote:
How well would Kryptonite bolter rounds even work? Would Kryptonite function perfectly as a substitute material? Or would the stress be so high, that the Kryptonite is destroyed upon exiting the barrel?

Evidently Kryptonite works even in gas form (see BvS) so making rounds from it should do just fine.

Once they make Superman no tougher than a normal man, the explosive bit does the rest.

Of course, getting them will be a bit tough. If we assume there is just Superman, and no Kryptonite, then obviously he wins until he meets a psyker.

 amanita wrote:
For those saying Superman doesn't have any psychic powers, I have a question. We know he can fly, but how? How does Superman simply ignore the pull of gravity (when convenient) but in addition propel himself through space? There is no thrust, no need of air current (although he does stick his arms forward) and yet he can achieve light speed by sheer force of will. Super telekinesis? Bending reality by thought? Sounds like a pretty spectacularly gifted psyker to me.

Because superman is a god.

He somehow is empowered by yellow suns, and weakened by red ones.

Despite the fact that our sun is white, and that 99% of superman's feats make no damn sense.

Ashiraya wrote:Evidently Kryptonite works even in gas form (see BvS) so making rounds from it should do just fine.

Once they make Superman no tougher than a normal man, the explosive bit does the rest.

All the more since Superman wouldn't even get an armor save. I'm pretty sure that wearing your underwear on the outside doesn't even confer a 6+.

 Traditio wrote:

Ashiraya wrote:Evidently Kryptonite works even in gas form (see BvS) so making rounds from it should do just fine.

Once they make Superman no tougher than a normal man, the explosive bit does the rest.

All the more since Superman wouldn't even get an armor save. I'm pretty sure that wearing your underwear on the outside doesn't even confer a 6+.

You rarely see his pajamas even get dirty much less torn. They are made of a material that makes adamantium look like tissue paper.

 Traditio wrote:


All the more since Superman wouldn't even get an armor save. I'm pretty sure that wearing your underwear on the outside doesn't even confer a 6+.

Nah, those rock hard muscles give him a 2+ abs save

I thought abs gave a 5+ save?

See Catachans.

Abs give a 2+, the flak jacket lowers it to 5+, the Catachan keep on wearing their jackets on basis of fair play, and for the challenge.

 Melissia wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Truly, I don't understand the logic here.

Yes, I can tell.

Simply put: I was discussing the narratives of DCU vs 40k. One is one of rising heroics, the other one is of declining heroics. This is relevant because people keep bringing up more and more ways in which some Space Marine or other obtains kryptonite-- ignoring the fact that even when Superman's enemies DO obtain Kryptonite, even when they DO kill him, he comes back and wins anyway. Because that's the narrative of the DCU.

The heroes of the DCU are always struggling to be greater, and succeed time and again. Great feats of heroism push the world to greater heights, and only more and more deadly, clever, and/or unpredictable foes can upset the new status quo. Its list of heroes is growing, as is their deeds and accomplishments-- and when just one dies, it's a major event. Because they're not supposed to. They face unimaginable odds and succeed-- perhaps imperfectly, perhaps temporarily, perhaps only eventually, but they succeed nonetheless. When the villains win, it's a shocking and rare event-- and often gets overturned rather quickly, if not instantly.

By contrast, the Imperium of Man is in decline. Its heroes die by the billion, nameless and forgotten. Its legends fade away in to the annals of time as either corpses who fought against overwhelming odds and held off as long as they could... or as nefarious, corrupted criminals who seek to destroy all that is good about humanity. Even the Ultramarines suffer this, having lost so much in the Tyrannic wars that they're a pale shadow of what they used to be. Just comparing 30k to 40k shows this much. The villains usually win, which is why the Imperium is slowly, inevitably shrinking.

The thread has basically ended up being "well let's see how we can twist the situation to ensure Superman loses", and ultimately, that's pointless, a little bit mean-spirited, and does a disservice to both Superman and the Astartes.

Hmm, I think I got it right the first time. I'll stand by my post. Hope in the 40K verse comes not from a godlike Xenos, but from brutish and amoral use of human technology and sacrifice. An 'artificially pure' symbol of hope like Superman would get rolled over "nameless and forgotten" to retain the narrative.

You're also relying on a debateable interpretation of the 40K verse, in which "Marines are bound to fail." (Since when were the Ultramarines a "pale shadow of what they used to be" post Tyrannic wars? How is that not a disservice to the Astartes?) Even if we go along with this interpretation, it can also easily be used to destroy Superman. Superman becomes a lost symbol of what could have been, and the 40K universe goes on in it's stagnant, ignorant cruelty.

Anyways I've said my peace, I don't have much hope for this thread.

"debatable interpretation"

To quote the standard blurb used to describe 40k:

It is the 41st Millennium. For more than a hundred centuries The Emperor has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Earth. He is the Master of Mankind by the will of the gods, and master of a million worlds by the might of his inexhaustible armies. He is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with power from the Dark Age of Technology. He is the Carrion Lord of the Imperium for whom a thousand souls are sacrificed every day, so that he may never truly die.

Yet even in his deathless state, the Emperor continues his eternal vigilance. Mighty battlefleets cross the daemon-infested miasma of the Warp, the only route between distant stars, their way lit by the Astronomican, the psychic manifestation of the Emperor's will. Vast armies give battle in his name on uncounted worlds. Greatest amongst his soldiers are the Adeptus Astartes, the Space Marines, bio-engineered super-warriors. Their comrades in arms are legion: the Imperial Guard and countless planetary defence forces, the ever vigilant Inquisition and the tech-priests of the Adeptus Mechanicus to name only a few. But for all their multitudes, they are barely enough to hold off the ever-present threat from aliens, heretics, mutants - and worse.

To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be re-learned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.

Emphasis mine.

To quote Betrayal at Calth:

The screams of the innocent, the pleas of the righteous resound to the cruel laughter of Dark Gods. Suffering and damnation await should the Emperor fail and the war be lost.

The age of knowledge and enlightenment has ended.
The Age of Darkness has begun.

You can claim my statement about 40k is "debatable", but I think it represents the official Games Workshop narrative.

Superman wins, marines die of laughter seeing his outfit. The humourless who survive (read: Ultramarines) die a while later after hearing that he's actualy called Superman.

 Melissia wrote:
"debatable interpretation"

To quote the standard blurb used to describe 40k:

But for all their multitudes, they are barely enough to hold off the ever-present threat from aliens, heretics, mutants - and worse.

Well there you have it. Barely enough also means "enough". AKA 51% of the vote, or the Millenium Falcon barely makes it out of the Death Star as it's exploding.

Depends on the version of Superman. Golden age? Silver? Bronze?

Superman isn't invulnerable. His atomic structure is incredibly dense (meaning he would be too heavy to actually stand on anything but solid ground). Power Weapons cleave between atoms (mono-molecular edge). Thus a power sword can cut through Superman. A phase weapon, even more so. Superman is also weak against electricity. So all the electrical charge from a power weapon would also stun him. He is weak against sonic attacks and high pressure. Batman bring him to his knees with a sonic weapon that's not even as powerful as Black Canarys scream.

Magic. Superman has almost nothing to protect himself against magic. Without Dr. Fate, Entrigan the Demon ect Superman stands no chance against any beta or higher psyker.

"I can lift a mountain!" - Supes

"I can make you into a mountain!" - Alpha level psyker.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Barely enough also means "enough"

But because the number of Marines are constantly dwindling while the enemies of the Imperium are growing, with the old heroes dying off, it's only "just barely enough" for now-- and no promise of that in the future. All that remains is for the Imperium's defenders to make a long series of glorious, bloody final stands, trying to wound its invaders as much as possible, before the end.

 Melissia wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Barely enough also means "enough"

But because the number of Marines are constantly dwindling while the enemies of the Imperium are growing, with the old heroes dying off, it's only "just barely enough" for now-- and no promise of that in the future. All that remains is for the Imperium's defenders to make a long series of glorious, bloody final stands, trying to wound its invaders as much as possible, before the end.

Sleep tight, kids, and remember: everything is doomed to fail eventually!

Yep. In fact, it's only through the Emperor's efforts in the Warp that the Imperium holds at all. And the Golden Throne is not going to last forever... it's malfunctioning, and the AdMech has no way of repairing it save for thorugh dark arts that they don't really understand.

Additional answer to the OP:

Clearly, this just isn't a fair match-up. Superman is literally intended to be a nigh-invincible superhuman that could, quite literally, beat the tar out of super saiyan [whatever blood number you want] Goku.

He's literally written as essentially invincible, all powerful Mary Sue of limitless power who can beat all odds.

Space marines are just genetically altered super soldiers. They have limits. They aren't all powerful. They don't even really have super powers.

Ultimately, this is what it comes down to:

Do the space marines have the one thing that can kill superman? No? Welp, there's another boring plot-line in which the invincible, all powerful Mary Sue wins...again.

The space marines have Kryptonite? Cool. Superman is dead in a heartbeat. Why? Because space marines aren't Marvel and DC supervillains who seem to love nothing more than making bad decisions and letting the hero win (incidentally, a reason why 2000 AD is far superior to Marvel and DC: the "heroes" and "villains," at least in the Judge Dredd universe, aren't constantly making stupid decision and forgetting their capabilities).

No. The space marines have kryptonite. Superman is within bolter range. Superman is dead.

And let's not even kid ourselves. In a match between Superman and the marines, neither wins. The orks win.

Because they believe that Superman is just another humie. Therefore, he would be. Because orks are the cleverest and the brightest.

 Traditio wrote:
The space marines have Kryptonite? Cool. Superman is dead in a heartbeat. Why? Because space marines aren't Marvel and DC supervillains who seem to love nothing more than making bad decisions and letting the hero win

No. The space marines have kryptonite. Superman is within bolter range. Superman is dead.

Except that the marines ain't able to trick Superman into Kryptonite like, say, Batman could. Marines have Kryptonite bolt? Well, Superman flies faster than a flying bolt anyway, remember.

The only real answer of “Who would win between Superman and Space Marines” is “Whoever the author decides” anyway.

 Traditio wrote:
And let's not even kid ourselves. In a match between Superman and the marines, neither wins. The orks win.

Because they believe that Superman is just another humie. Therefore, he would be. Because orks are the cleverest and the brightest.

Ahah no. Didn't work to stop the Emperor and Horus, and they didn't happen to fly around using Warlord Titans as club to beat the crap out of everyone, did they? It's hard to mistake Superman for a normal human.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

The only real answer of “Who would win between Superman and Space Marines” is “Whoever the author decides” anyway.

That's a cop-out argument, and you know it

If a mouse fought the entirety of the IOM's military power, the author has the power to make the mouse win. That's how written works work.

 Selym wrote:
If a mouse fought the entirety of the IOM's military power, the author has the power to make the mouse win.

Definitely. Then that mouse will get to be an extremely powerful character of whatever universe this author was writing in. And if the author finds a compelling way to make it win, certainly a cool character. If not, a stupid Mary-Sue, or maybe a boring non-character. I don't see a problem here. It's not like we are talking about real-life event where accurate prediction of “who would win” can have real, important influence on real, meaningful decision.

Yes, but it does point out that we cannot rely on arguments of "It's up to the author". Hypothetical arguments like "who would win" can only be discussed if we assume there is an alternate reality in which both characters/forces exist, have their powers, and decided to fight.

Huh, look at that, I started a war.

Green flame wrote:
Huh, look at that, I started a war.

The legions of Subparman will prevail!

 Selym wrote:
Hypothetical arguments like "who would win" can only be discussed if we assume there is an alternate reality in which both characters/forces exist, have their powers, and decided to fight.

Still 100% rely on the author of the story. There are just SO MANY things that matters in how the confrontation would go…
And remember: Squirrel Girl beat Doctor Doom, Deadpool and Wolverine (yeah I literally just googled that gak up).

Were those characters beaten up while they were the main protagonists?

That sounds like fanfiction.

 Selym wrote:
Were those characters beaten up while they were the main protagonists?

It was off screen, because that's where Squirrel Girl beats everyone, even Thanos.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
It was off screen, because that's where Squirrel Girl beats everyone, even Thanos.

Except for Doctor Doom and Deadpool, according to Wikipedia.

 Selym wrote:
Were those characters beaten up while they were the main protagonists?

Why would it matter? When two fictional beings clash, the winner is whoever the writer decide, by whatever means the writer thinks would make for a good story. So unless it is impossible for one side to win in a way that result in an interesting story (which is quite unlikely to happen), both side can reasonably win, depending on the choice of the author, and it is not a problem. The only question that matters is : is the story good?

So... Is this an instance of "we have X character. Ahe veat up Y Z and A, dontchaknow"?

Because then we don't really get to use that as an assesement of whether you can add in author sponsorship. That'd more be a case of "my character is just supposed to ve better".


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 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
It was off screen, because that's where Squirrel Girl beats everyone, even Thanos.

Except for Doctor Doom and Deadpool, according to Wikipedia.

 Selym wrote:
Were those characters beaten up while they were the main protagonists?

Why would it matter? When two fictional beings clash, the winner is whoever the writer decide, by whatever means the writer thinks would make for a good story. So unless it is impossible for one side to win in a way that result in an interesting story (which is quite unlikely to happen), both side can reasonably win, depending on the choice of the author, and it is not a problem. The only question that matters is : is the story good?

I bring it up because non-protagonists generally lose by default. In our "vs" reality, there is no protagonist and no plot, just power vs power.

I really have no clue what you are talking about. Anyway, just in case, I'll reiterate my point: “which one would be stronger” discussions are ultimately very, very meaningless. We shouldn't take them seriously. At all. They don't make sense. Not with the way fictional universes works.

It's okay guys, we should stop all "versus" discussions entirely for all time, because theyvare totally meaningless!

But not as meaningless as discussing the origins of Space Marinea, because that is objectivley mor meaningful than the things we want to talk about.

By the way, Vulkan burned up on re-entry to a blackened skeleton. Superman flew through having a punch up with someone and then fell straight through a building and still didn't even bleed.

Superman could just fly through any of the Imperiums greatest warships causing critical damage with his eyes on full burst and cause uncontrollable destruction.

It's basically down to kryptonite. If Marines have none. They lose.

 Selym wrote:
It's okay guys, we should stop all "versus" discussions entirely for all time, because theyvare totally meaningless!

No that fine. As long as you don't pretend that there is ONE answer and that the other answers are wrong.

None of us did. I even hopped around a little.

Kryptonite is not approved wargear for the codex astartes or militarium. The ordo xenos and inquisition would have you all excommunicated for heresy for even mentioning it.