I'm reading through the DW codex and its alluding to an emerging threat from the Ghoul Stars. Fort Pykeman monitors the ghoul stars specifically. We also know a Tyranid hive fleet got turned around in there and confused. We know they sent in a crusade that seen entire chapters destroyed to contain the threat. So what could it be? It says the Barhghesi are an emergent threat. However there are also other stranger things in the Ghoul Stars. At the very end of the DW codex lore it says the xenos tides are rising. Is this all fluff or are GW laying the lore groundwork for more Xenos releases? The codex also references other Xenos we know stuff about that don't have codices such as Hrud, Jokero, an ork who made a device that disrupted Tyranid synapse, lacrymoles, and exodite eldar.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Barghesi
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Pale_Wasting

I mean the DW are cool, but we need some cool Xenos to fight. Of all these mentioned which do you think has the highest probability of seeing a release. Honestly I hope to see at least two of these cool things. Hrud and Barghesi.

I wouldn't hold your breath.

Barghesi never heard of them. They sure sound Grim dark enough, and might be fun. 'The question is if GW is willing to create a minor faction that doesn't ally well with existing armies.

Tyranids and Tau. Both don't ally well. I mean you would think the Tau would but they are cutting that our a lot lately from a mechanics point.

Edit
The thing is unless people keep talking and pestering them for a new alien race we'll only get more space marines. The cycle needs to be broken and we need to see a new interesting Xenos join the fray. The Ghoul Stars posses the most lore merit for something badass.

Na I would love them to be the next race. Its just that I can't see Gw taking the risk when they could do a race that a large part of the players might want to start with as an ally in.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just look at the previous releases.

- Death watch -> Imperial allies
- Eldrad -> Eldar.
- Choas knights -> Chaos
- Gene stealers -> Tyranids (controversy and thus lower sales)
- harlequins -> Eldar
- Knights -> chaos
- Admech ->imp
- skitarii -> imp
- Tempestus -> imp
- Legion of the Damned -> Imperial
- Inquisition -> Imperial
- Sisters -> Imperial

It was a long time ago when a "new army" wasn't build to double as a good small ally force. So the question might be who would ally those hyper agressive xenos species.

It's more likely than CSM getting a good codex and a model line rework this side of Age of Emprar.
It's less likely than Eldar recieving a buff somehow in 8E.

Unless GW decides that they are allyable with existing factions, bc Old Wunz do erryting. At which point we may as well declare 40k officially dead.

The last time might be tau but that was a long time ago.

And they didn't have all this mandatory allies and formations gak to work around...

They have been dropping hints of late. Would be a big boost with thw 8th release of the models and rules are good.

 Eldarain wrote:
They have been dropping hints of late. Would be a big boost with thw 8th release of the models and rules are good.

I know the build up in the lore is intense lately. It can't be a coincidence. Then again the last time this happened was the Eldrad and the resurrection of the god of death. We all know how that went. Let's hope if they do make a new Xenos its handled better than that.

The Ghoul Stars have been a go too for spooky unknowable aliens for sometime. Eisenhorn and prior. Heck they come up often enough in the background for the Legions and such in 30k. Sometimes there is such a thing as looking too far into things and I think this is one of them.

Though rules for a Build-a-Force of Unknowable Alien Horrors would be cool.

Meh, I'm still waiting on the Hrudd and Demiurg.

What necessitates the watch of an entire Watch Fortress and an entire chapter of space marines to guard the region. That's overkill for a region where the IoM don't have any inhabitable worlds. I think we'll see what is in those stars sooner rather than later.

 Gamgee wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
They have been dropping hints of late. Would be a big boost with thw 8th release of the models and rules are good.

I know the build up in the lore is intense lately. It can't be a coincidence. Then again the last time this happened was the Eldrad and the resurrection of the god of death. We all know how that went. Let's hope if they do make a new Xenos its handled better than that.

I think there are major developments in that storyline yet to come.

 Gamgee wrote:
What necessitates the watch of an entire Watch Fortress and an entire chapter of space marines to guard the region. That's overkill for a region where the IoM don't have any inhabitable worlds. I think we'll see what is in those stars sooner rather than later.

except a space marine chapter being there to guard has been there for awhile

 Eldarain wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
They have been dropping hints of late. Would be a big boost with thw 8th release of the models and rules are good.

I know the build up in the lore is intense lately. It can't be a coincidence. Then again the last time this happened was the Eldrad and the resurrection of the god of death. We all know how that went. Let's hope if they do make a new Xenos its handled better than that.

I think there are major developments in that storyline yet to come.

I make jokes, but even that is obvious to me. The storm is here.

Edit
I know it has been there for a long time and the Watchfortress as well. Yet the book clearly is alluding to something in that region that is stirring. My point is that something has to be very powerful. Is it the same thing that destroyed all those space marine chapters? There are also other xenos in the ghoul stars that are mysteriously disappearing. Yet it's clearly not the Tyranids since they can't navigate the area. There was a xenos species about to be annihilated in the final blow on their last planet (homeworld). When the space marine chapter in question arrived they found the aliens gone and yet it didn't show signs that the Tyranids did it since the planet was fine and the barren rock of Tyranid invasion is a dead give away.

The thing is, is that the Barghesi are basically werewolves, are GW really likely to add another wolf man army? They should absolutely do more aliens though.

I would love to see something out of the ghoul stars! Almost as much as I would love to see Slaugth or Hrud get a release... in those cases, my FLGS's would probably finally see sells of the nurgle rot technical paint.

I hope not. There are too many armies currently in the game that are desperately in need of an update.

 Gamgee wrote:
What necessitates the watch of an entire Watch Fortress and an entire chapter of space marines to guard the region. That's overkill for a region where the IoM don't have any inhabitable worlds. I think we'll see what is in those stars sooner rather than later.

Many dangerous things.

The Barghesi
Necron Flayed Ones (the most powerful of all the necrons who have succumbed to the Flayer Virus resides there with his numberous Flayed One followers)
Cythor Fiends
Trogan Bloodreeks

And many other unnamed xenos that are just described as being "unspeakable horrors".


From memory part of the Death Spectres fluff is that they are there not only to stop the denizens of the Ghoul Stars threatening the galaxy; they are also there to stop the Tyranids from absorbing their biomass.

The mysterious aliens in the Ghoul Stars are...



*suspenseful pause*



...Necrons. Now go buy some Necrons.

From the sounds of what I read the Necrons wouldn't necessitate a crusade of that size particularly back then when it happened since even more of them would be sleeping.

would be awesome to see the hrudd get models, but I ain't holding my breath. Theyre the most referenced and unique of the xenos other than the enslavers

a distinct new alien threat would require them putting out a LOT of models in a short time frame, or producing multi kits that put even grey knights to shame

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
The mysterious aliens in the Ghoul Stars are...

*suspenseful pause*

...Necrons. Now go buy some Necrons.

I was under the impression that Tyranids were entirely uninterested in consuming Necrons, considering their robotic nature. Correct me if I am wrong, but even necron "living metal" would not be considered biomass, so why keep the Tyranids out? Especially since the Tyranids likely have other vectors of encountering Necrons in other locations.

If you were being sarcastic though, please disregard me.

As for new xenos, yes, yes, and thrice yes. We need some love to counter all the IOM stuff that has been getting released lately. If given the choice, I would pick Hrud, not just because they are so obviously inspired by a mishmash of Lovecraftian things, but because their specific flavor of grim dark is really fun in my head. And they do not subscribe to the general 40k "violence first, questions later" machismo mentality.

Please no. There's too many factions for GW to support properly anyway. Last thing we need is another to reduce support for existing non-marine factions even further.

tneva82 wrote:
Please no. There's too many factions for GW to support properly anyway. Last thing we need is another to reduce support for existing non-marine factions even further.

It will be Marines who have been mind controlled by a tentacle-monster-god-planet.

They are my Tentacle Marines, and they shall know no xenos updates!

I doubt we'll see an entirely new faction. all the "new armies" we've seen have been basicly support forces for existing factions. this is proably cause it's easier as they can make less. a genunely new faction would require a LOT of units to launch.

bare minimum you'd need 1 HQ, 1 troop choice (and most armies have 2) and proably 2 FA, 2 HS and 2 elite choices each.

so you'd be looking at likely proably a dozen new kits when all was said and done. and they'd have to release it in a short time period.

BrianDavion wrote:
I doubt we'll see an entirely new faction. all the "new armies" we've seen have been basicly support forces for existing factions. this is proably cause it's easier as they can make less. a genunely new faction would require a LOT of units to launch.

bare minimum you'd need 1 HQ, 1 troop choice (and most armies have 2) and proably 2 FA, 2 HS and 2 elite choices each.

so you'd be looking at likely proably a dozen new kits when all was said and done. and they'd have to release it in a short time period.

That's what people said though before tau was released...That was completely new faction as well.

They could get with 1 clampack, 1 dual purpose troop kit, one dual purpose elite/HS kit and vechile as a start.

Or they could go for grey knight route where same kit can be used to build elite, troop, fa and hs choices...

It *could* be that they have been working on something for a couple of years, and we do not know GW's actual production capacity. But I don't think GW will do anything more adventurous than some more marine variants.

GW has been listening quite a lot to their fans. No one thought AdMech/Skitarri would see a release. People said DW was impossible. I'm real sick of hearing the word impossible. People don't seem to know how to use it anymore. They said Eldrad and Yennead was impossible. The end times was impossible. I'm real sick of hearing whats impossible at this point. Just keep asking folks and the people who say its "impossible" will be proven wrong again. As they always are.

Yes it's not impossible. But is it desirable? You want Tau to get less releases in return of new faction?

Did any of us call this impossible? The fact remains it is very unlikely. It is out of GW's pattern, even its new one, the release wouldn't make much sense, it would push back the updates that several factions are in dire need of, and the faction would likely involve some fluff rape.

I can live with that if it means more diversity in the range as a whole. The Tau just got a ton of new models last update. I would expect an AdMech + Half a Skitarii release to flesh this army out.

tneva82 wrote:
Yes it's not impossible. But is it desirable? You want Tau to get less releases in return of new faction?

Replace Tau with BA, IG, DE, Nids and CSM.

8th edition would be the most ideal time for them to do this. With the new rules they don't need to worry about making them compatible with older versions of the rules. Heck if the game is streamlined enough it might be easy to add them since the rules are far less complex. I realize the Chaos are up next on the update block and won't want to take that from them, but I do want to see a new Xenos army. Badly. I don't care what they make either as long as its Xenos and well made.

If I were a betting man, I would put money on 8E doing to 7E what 6E did to 5E.

As I have never played anything but 7th that analogy is lost on me.

It means, add in all supplements (such as death from the skies), add about a hundred unnecessary house rules, increase the size of the game again, double or triple the amount of random in the game, and revamp certain mechanics to be more long winded and broken.

Everything we've heard has said they are streamlining it.

Where are these rumours?

 Gamgee wrote:
I can live with that if it means more diversity in the range as a whole. The Tau just got a ton of new models last update. I would expect an AdMech + Half a Skitarii release to flesh this army out.

More diversity but with token support. Okay let's phrase another way. You happy with new faction if it means admech not getting fleshed out?

They don't support CURRENT non-marine factions properly. Any new faction would only eat from that already too spread out support. It's not "as now+new faction". It's "reduced now+new faction".

Just go look and find them. Far too numerous to list.

I can live with that for one more small dose of variety. Granted I also wish they would tone down marine production for a year to focus on all other factions.

 Gamgee wrote:
Just go look and find them. Far too numerous to list.

Burden of proof is yours. If there ate too many, it should be easy to give one or two examples.

I'm too tired of internet debates to provide proof right now (you would be too if you were almost never wrong). Just take my word on it that it's happening. I'm not always right. Just usually.

 Gamgee wrote:
I'm too tired of internet debates to provide proof right now (you would be too if you were almost never wrong). Just take my word on it that it's happening. I'm not always right. Just usually.

That is the dumbest argument I have ever heard.

"I know that I am never wrong, so you cannot ever be right"

 Selym wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
I'm too tired of internet debates to provide proof right now (you would be too if you were almost never wrong). Just take my word on it that it's happening. I'm not always right. Just usually.

That is the dumbest argument I have ever heard.

"I know that I am never wrong, so you cannot ever be right"

That is because it's not a debate. Your trying to make it one. When all I am doing is informing you. Your coming in all combat ready and I'm just passing on what I've heard.

 Gamgee wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
I'm too tired of internet debates to provide proof right now (you would be too if you were almost never wrong). Just take my word on it that it's happening. I'm not always right. Just usually.

That is the dumbest argument I have ever heard.

"I know that I am never wrong, so you cannot ever be right"

That is because it's not a debate. Your trying to make it one. When all I am doing is informing you. Your coming in all combat ready and I'm just passing on what I've heard.

So the contribution to the discussion you are making is just a statement of "you are wrong"?

Much helpful. So discursive.

A new race would be fun but what niche/gimmic would it have?

Anti-Warp cthulhu horror. Not simply being low warp sensitivity but warp eaters.

A mix of strange geometric lines and tentacle horror (no not the other kind. Go online for that). They need to look both horrifying and extremely ordered since they don't have any concept of chaos.

 Gamgee wrote:
Anti-Warp cthulhu horror. Not simply being low warp sensitivity but warp eaters.

A mix of strange geometric lines and tentacle horror (no not the other kind. Go online for that). They need to look both horrifying and extremely ordered since they don't have any concept of chaos.

...So...Necrons?

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
Anti-Warp cthulhu horror. Not simply being low warp sensitivity but warp eaters.

A mix of strange geometric lines and tentacle horror (no not the other kind. Go online for that). They need to look both horrifying and extremely ordered since they don't have any concept of chaos.

...So...Necrons?

I said gemoetric lines. Not friggen Egyptians in space. My poor poor old crons. :( Hmmm I think the most basic idea of this would look at the no mans sky crystal logo thing and then add in 40k grim dark and tentacle horrors. I would expect all their forces to levitate off the ground. The newcrons can keep the pyramids, but this faction would use a lot of geometric shapes. Another good example is in X3 there is the Khaak who's small ships form into larger ones by linking together (they do have a pyramid shape to their basic ship though). I think it would look neat to see them linking up into bigger and bigger things. They want to spread absolute order to the universe at the cost of all that is chaos. Their unique biology feeds of off chaos powers. Considering they are such an unusual species they don't get along well with others and find their thought processes strange. They are perhaps one of the most intelligent species int he universe but refuse to change unless their enemies begin to beat them or they lose ground. They tend to think their forms are so superior they should never change unless absolutely necessary.

 Gamgee wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
Anti-Warp cthulhu horror. Not simply being low warp sensitivity but warp eaters.

A mix of strange geometric lines and tentacle horror (no not the other kind. Go online for that). They need to look both horrifying and extremely ordered since they don't have any concept of chaos.

...So...Necrons?

I said gemoetric lines. Not friggen Egyptians in space. My poor poor old crons. :( Hmmm I think the most basic idea of this would look at the no mans sky crystal logo thing and then add in 40k grim dark and tentacle horrors. I would expect all their forces to levitate off the ground. The newcrons can keep the pyramids, but this faction would use a lot of geometric shapes. Another good example is in X3 there is the Khaak who's small ships form into larger ones by linking together (they do have a pyramid shape to their basic ship though). I think it would look neat to see them linking up into bigger and bigger things. They want to spread absolute order to the universe at the cost of all that is chaos. Their unique biology feeds of off chaos powers.

...So...Replicator (Stargate) Necrons.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
Anti-Warp cthulhu horror. Not simply being low warp sensitivity but warp eaters.

A mix of strange geometric lines and tentacle horror (no not the other kind. Go online for that). They need to look both horrifying and extremely ordered since they don't have any concept of chaos.

...So...Necrons?

I said gemoetric lines. Not friggen Egyptians in space. My poor poor old crons. :( Hmmm I think the most basic idea of this would look at the no mans sky crystal logo thing and then add in 40k grim dark and tentacle horrors. I would expect all their forces to levitate off the ground. The newcrons can keep the pyramids, but this faction would use a lot of geometric shapes. Another good example is in X3 there is the Khaak who's small ships form into larger ones by linking together (they do have a pyramid shape to their basic ship though). I think it would look neat to see them linking up into bigger and bigger things. They want to spread absolute order to the universe at the cost of all that is chaos. Their unique biology feeds of off chaos powers.

...So...Replicator (Stargate) Necrons.

Possibly personality wise, but visually no. Eldrazi are a good look for their biological side and then the geometric cubes would be their vehicles and fusions.

Gamgee wrote:As I have never played anything but 7th that analogy is lost on me.

Gamgee wrote:
My poor poor old crons. :(

If you've never played before 7th how are they "you poor old crons"?

Your initial point is that we're seeing something building up in the fluff, and this might be an indication of something new on the table top.

Do time frames match? That's an actual question, not a rhetorical one: how long does it take for GW to produce a new model line? Because I don't think they would really hint at a new release unless they're certain they're going to do it. So if the fluff is really building up for a new release (and isn't just a fluff thing), then I suppose GW would already be working on the models as we speak.

Before the DW release, we had a long time without any 40K release (we had many Start Collecting and stuff). Is it because they were actively working on DW? Or do they work on a model for many many month before they release it (I mean the sculpt and the mold production, not just the idea in the studio)?
I heard rumors that DW was released because of Overkill's huge success. If that's true, and they did decide to produce all these new DW models only after Overkill's success, then it means they can do the complete production cycle in just a few month. If it's that fast, and the fluff really hints at a new release, then this release would be in just a few month.

Most rumors converge to say that Chaos is the next big release (and they already get a few things next week). Would this new race be the next thing then? They might still have Genestealer Cult in the pipes (although it could be a small release, with mostly repacks of the Overkill models and a codex).

But maybe they have a much longer production cycle, and they could already be working on stuff that will get released in a very long time...

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

Gamgee wrote:As I have never played anything but 7th that analogy is lost on me.

Gamgee wrote:
My poor poor old crons. :(

If you've never played before 7th how are they "you poor old crons"?

When I was about to start the game I was looking into the Necrons instead of Tau and then the big shift happened only shortly before I started getting into the hobby. I was a fan of their lore and read a lot of the cool stories around the net about them. Then newcrons happened. I was a fan of Necrons as presented in DoW Dark Crusade (old crons).

Genstealer Cult is rumored to be coming, could your signs and protents be pointing towards them ?

So, my take on it would be something different from the Gamgee's Warp eater .
I don't like that there are so many "anti warp" races currently, so I don't want one more.

The rak'gol are really close to what I wishe:

they aren't similar to necrons, tyranids, etc...

they have an inferior / equal tech to the Imperium (I think this is an important point: the eldars , the necrons and the tau are famous for their super tech, we absolutely don't need another high tech army).

they merge bio and tech together. it is cool to feature this on a xenos race, and not only Chaos/admech.

They use the warp (I truly think the Warp is an important aspect of 40k and shouldn't be dismissed).

They are grimdark !

I like the look of the Collectors's ships in Mass Effect.
It can be a good idea to give their ships this visual.

I could get on board with Rak'gol as well. Any species really so long as its a new Xenos. There is only one I don't want. Squats. No squats GW. Demiurg are okay though.

 Selym wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Yes it's not impossible. But is it desirable? You want Tau to get less releases in return of new faction?

Replace Tau with BA, IG, DE, Nids and CSM.

Amen. I would love that.

 Gamgee wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

Gamgee wrote:As I have never played anything but 7th that analogy is lost on me.

Gamgee wrote:
My poor poor old crons. :(

If you've never played before 7th how are they "you poor old crons"?

When I was about to start the game I was looking into the Necrons instead of Tau and then the big shift happened only shortly before I started getting into the hobby. I was a fan of their lore and read a lot of the cool stories around the net about them. Then newcrons happened. I was a fan of Necrons as presented in DoW Dark Crusade (old crons).

The big shift happened in 5th Ed, but ok. Im just saying it seems odd to call something you never had yours.

I mean, of course the book about alien killers would mention the aliens they like to kill. The galaxy is a large place and they can't possibly make codexes/models for every race.

And as for it saying a xenos threat is coming.....uh....of course? I mean, what is the codex going to say "the deathwatch have been doing a good job and xenos reports are down this quarter by 45%". I mean all of 40k takes places in an 11th hour type scenario where war is always happening. They want Deathwatch to stay relevant. Not trying to sound condescending, but it doesn't seem like hinting at anything.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

Gamgee wrote:As I have never played anything but 7th that analogy is lost on me.

Gamgee wrote:
My poor poor old crons. :(

If you've never played before 7th how are they "you poor old crons"?

When I was about to start the game I was looking into the Necrons instead of Tau and then the big shift happened only shortly before I started getting into the hobby. I was a fan of their lore and read a lot of the cool stories around the net about them. Then newcrons happened. I was a fan of Necrons as presented in DoW Dark Crusade (old crons).

The big shift happened in 5th Ed, but ok. Im just saying it seems odd to call something you never had yours.

That is the most bizarre question I've ever been asked.

fresus wrote:
Before the DW release, we had a long time without any 40K release (we had many Start Collecting and stuff). Is it because they were actively working on DW? Or do they work on a model for many many month before they release it (I mean the sculpt and the mold production, not just the idea in the studio)?
I heard rumors that DW was released because of Overkill's huge success. If that's true, and they did decide to produce all these new DW models only after Overkill's success, then it means they can do the complete production cycle in just a few month. If it's that fast, and the fluff really hints at a new release, then this release would be in just a few month.

It's easily year or two minimum from "go" to product being shelves(nevermind really odd ones like eldar jetbikes that took like DECADE to be released from when they were designed...Albeit that was unusual so not that common occurance). So no the overkill did not settle the deathwatch codex.

Obviously going to vary between how important and big release it is but for comparison AOS design process started in 2012...And when sprues had year they were designed rather than year they were released you had easily 1-2 year earlier.

Fluff aside, what would set a new faction apart from all of the current armies to make them a viable choice?

What table-top play-mechanic and play-style is not yet available in any faction?

If there's no answer to this, then it pretty much points to "no new factions".

Another vote for Rak'Gol.

They just bring so much flavour and they have great backstory and weapons (ty FFG).

the problem with the Rakghoul being introduced is the question of ".. who owns them?"

GW obviously. They wholesale took large parts of the DW RPG lore and made it into the dex. That settles that question. They did add a lot of their own stuff, but by and large the bulk of the groundwork was all FFG.

 Gamgee wrote:
GW obviously. They wholesale took large parts of the DW RPG lore and made it into the dex. That settles that question. They did add a lot of their own stuff, but by and large the bulk of the groundwork was all FFG.

true, and the BFG:A game uses a ship from rogue trader. (the chaos light cruiser) still I could iamgine their legal team would be warning against it.

then there's also the fact that trying to trademark "rak'ghoul" could cause a legal fight with EA and Disney. (Rakghouls are also a alien in Knights of the Old Republic/SWTOR)

Rakka GulGhouls then. Not all all similar. More commonly known as Rak Ghouls.

well if they have to rename em Rakenguuls might work.

How about the Rankenguul Counts. Hahah.

Considering the species is Rak'Gol not Rak Ghouls... I'd seriously doubt they'd need a name change.

Different pronunciation, different spelling, different look, etc, etc.

One are corsair lizards with a bionic fetish (40k) and the other is a near-mindless mutated bundle of flesh (Star Wars).

The Rak Ghouls are also a force plague and its notoriously hard to cure. As soon as a cure is made it seems to adapt on its own accord and a new version of the cure is needed. Pretty big difference.

Just sharing random facts if people don't know their Star Wars lore.

It could be, but the studio nowadays seem to not be nearly as willing to take a risk like the one that brought us Tau and Necrons as a full codex.

Honestly the Ghoul Stars was always an interesting thing from what I've read about. There's not much out there but it's always spoken in hushed tones, so the vibe I got was from the bit of information, around the Cythor Fiends, Togoran Bloodreeks and Pale Wasting is something that's a mix of Chaos and Tyranid, basically Cthulhu-esque "stuff of nightmares" but the problem is that's pretty much the domain of Chaos already. It would be a little interesting, maybe, to have something like the Crimson Slaughter (because they have a lot of possession/haunting stuff) going off to the Ghoul Stars and coming back with Chaos allies in the form of these weird monsters that already look a bit Chaos-ish, so hey join the fun why not.

The problem is they never really have said what's there, the Barghesi aren't in the Ghoul Stars, and they just have a name to my knowledge there's no description (although Barghesi sounds a lot like "Barghest" so I'm guessing they would be some kind of hound-like monsters with lots of teeth, imagine the RT-era bloodthirster type of look with a snarling dog face). As to what is actually in the ghoul stars, there's nothing said.

The only mention is something called the Cythor Fiends that "had spindly limbs and vile faces, elongated and inhuman. They lived in the fortresses with the sheer walls of glimmering crystal and used some uncanny weapons." but mysteriously vanished without a trace on their homeworld after being beaten around by the Templars. The bit about the Pale Wasting does mention "a "star-spawned" plague that swept across world with "nightmare-engines" but again, that sounds Cthulhu-esque.

While I'd love another xenos faction, I don't think they'd have nearly enough design stuff to make them unique. I could possibly see a small, limited Codex type of thing that's meant to be allies to something else (but who knows what, since these things seem to be friends with nobody and far enough away that they can't influence anything). Of course, the same was said of Necrons in 2nd/early 3rd and look at them now.

We are getting a Chaos Codex expansion, Traitor's Hate. Also getting Heretic Astartes as the new name for all CSM.

Sauce?

 Selym wrote:
Sauce?

On second thought, honey mustard.

BossJakadakk wrote:

 Selym wrote:
Sauce?

On second thought, honey mustard.

A man of fine taste.


Selym, they are talking about all this chaos stuff in a N&R thread.

Personally, I would say the only thing that makes sence is a Genestealer Cult codex, to be used as allies for Tyranids. It would be like one of the other mini Codexes like Harlequins, Adeptus Mechanicus, ect, ect.

A Cthulhu-esque faction would be right in line with GWs modus operandi- steal ideas &/or take inspiration from the competition & cash in on the *in* thing. With miniatures boardgames like Cthulhu Wars & The Others: 7 Sins & the ol' standbys of boardgames like Arkham Horror, meaning Cthulhu is the rising tide of *What's Cool Now*.

Currently there's no real, direct entirely Cthulhu-esque representation in wargames. & there's a ton of *inspirational* public domain source material to steal from.

Or it could be a 40k version of the old WHFB Dogs Of War/Regiments Of Renown. GW could dip their toes into many of the fluffy but not fleshed out alien threats. Just one unit type of this, one of that. & if there's overwhelming demand for expounding on a popular unit, that works. An easy way of testing the market for a number of alien *threats*.

Maybe they're making a 40k Dungeon Crawler outta it. [Space Hulk doesn't rings count, really.] Trying to steal some sources of income from Shadows Of Brimstone & the like. A huge hive city type setting that's infested with all manner of threats could make for a great 40k dungeon crawler & also bring to life some of these fluffy but as yet untapped aliens. Plus, selling each *unit* of alien threat individually, after the big box game gets released, like they're doing with the contents of every other big box game, would fit right in to GW business model. Trying to *poach* some Star Wars: Imperial Assault sci-fi dungeon crawler monies wouldn't be a bad idea for GW!

Just my thoughts, off the top of my head. Not claiming any real insight or knowledge of the situation. Nor saying *Count on it, gonna happenď*. [So coming back at this with *efficacy* &/or logistics type nonsense will be nonsensical. ;-)]


Blaster was here...

Chaos IS supposedly "chtullu-esque".^^
I mean: old gods unintelligible by the Mortals,manipulating the men, releasing horrors and monsters upon their realms...

GW could rehearse Chaos this way. I'm very upset by what GW did with Chaos. They are supposed to be THE bad guy, they could do better.

Yeah, Chaos, warp & daemons is Cthulhu-esque in nature. & while Tzeentch is close to Cthulhu-esque, there's no obviously & entirely a sci-fi *Cthulhu* faction in 40k. [Edit->] I mean, not just humans/transhumans *touched* by Cthulhu-ness. & not just average daemons/demons/devils. I'm talking full on GW take on Elder Things, Void Hounds, Star Spawn, Shoggoths, etc. The Grimdark treatment of the Lovecraft Mythos.

With the Specialist Games coming back, GW is decidedly trying ti get back the market share they lost to skirmish & miniatures wargames they lost to Privateer Press, Mantic & FFG. There's no real previous SG that isn't a *challenge* to SW:IA. A fuller Deathwatch type 40k dungeon crawler would be that chllenger.

& yeah, the homogenization & such of the Chaos Gods is pretty disappointing. & Slaanesh... I mean, their Khorne & Nurgle fluff is very graphic. Khornes cruelty, cannibalism, wanton violence & Nurgles just plain ol' *grossness-osity* is pretty bad in a lot of ways. But when it comes to Slaaneshi *nekkidness*... *Nope. NO.Can't have that!*. Ridiculous.


Blaster was here...

 Gamgee wrote:
Anti-Warp cthulhu horror. Not simply being low warp sensitivity but warp eaters.

A mix of strange geometric lines and tentacle horror (no not the other kind. Go online for that). They need to look both horrifying and extremely ordered since they don't have any concept of chaos.

So nids?

Cthulhu has only recently gone pubic domain, so that's part of why its not been present previously.

However, I think there's a lot of work that need to be done on current factions before they drop a(nother) new one on us, and to be honest, there's already too many factions in the game as is.

 Stormonu wrote:
Cthulhu has only recently gone pubic domain, so that's part of why its not been present previously.

However, I think there's a lot of work that need to be done on current factions before they drop a(nother) new one on us, and to be honest, there's already too many factions in the game as is.

Lack of public dominionship has never stopped GW before. See: Everything.

one can't copyright taking the basic idea of something and adapting it.

Well, 40K's Chaos was based more so off Moorcock's vision of Chaos anyway. They even once had a Stormbringer game once (I have a copy I found for cheap yeeeears ago).

Overall, a lot of 40K was built on a melding of Geiger, Moorcock, Lovecraft and Herbert - so yeah, steal from the best when they can.

No idea is ever 100% truly fresh. Everything is inspired by something else.

 Gamgee wrote:
No idea is ever 100% truly fresh. Everything is inspired by something else.

False. That means that these things had no origin. Someone a long time ago invented something new. It may happen again.

One guy said let's draw a line! And people copied. Then another guy connected four of them, and people copied. Now, you draw millions of lines to for a miniature, and, guess what? People copy.

Cthulhu alien faction sounds like Genestealer cults always were, to me.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Cthulhu alien faction sounds like Genestealer cults always were, to me.

The Genestealer cults take some pretty obvious inspiration from The Shadow Over Innsmouth in particular.

Space Lizardmen. 40k was fantasy with a slight touch of sci-fi (originally). I want my dang Space Lizardmen already.

On a more serious note, I could see them adding a xenos *mercenary* list. That way they could work like all the other releases lately, but still offer some variety.

 Gamgee wrote:
Fort Pykeman

Intentional. The new race will be Pokemon.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
Fort Pykeman

Intentional. The new race will be Pokemon.

If you have ever read the pokedex entries the science is insane. There's one pokemon so hot its hotter than the sun.

lliu wrote:
One guy said let's draw a line! And people copied. Then another guy connected four of them, and people copied. Now, you draw millions of lines to for a miniature, and, guess what? People copy.

creativity is evolutionary not revolutionary

Personally I hope it's true we have way too many Imperial factions right now, especially Space Marines time to mix things up a bit more.

Still haven't seen an offering on what this new faction would play like...

Is it a horde army? You have Nids, Orks, and IG for that. All this would be is a model-swap or counts-as.

Is it a gunline army? You have Tau and IG for that. Again, these just became counts-as.

MSU? Space Marines in a dozen flavors do this already.

Assault? Orks, certain flavors of Marines, Nids... these are bases already covered.

Armor? IG and Tau both do this very well already.

Blitz/Raiding? DE and Eldar both have the speed-and-mobility angles covered.

So, again, an honest question: What would be the selling point of this new army? What do they bring to the gaming table that justifies the product line?

New rules so they make cute faces at people, and people don't shoot them, then they kill them with cuteness.

 Psienesis wrote:
Still haven't seen an offering on what this new faction would play like...

Is it a horde army? You have Nids, Orks, and IG for that. All this would be is a model-swap or counts-as.

Is it a gunline army? You have Tau and IG for that. Again, these just became counts-as.

MSU? Space Marines in a dozen flavors do this already.

Assault? Orks, certain flavors of Marines, Nids... these are bases already covered.

Armor? IG and Tau both do this very well already.

Blitz/Raiding? DE and Eldar both have the speed-and-mobility angles covered.

So, again, an honest question: What would be the selling point of this new army? What do they bring to the gaming table that justifies the product line?

To throw in some salt, C:SM can do all of those roles better than the armies that are built for them...

How about an army based around changing the conditions of the battle in some way?

 Selym wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Still haven't seen an offering on what this new faction would play like...

Is it a horde army? You have Nids, Orks, and IG for that. All this would be is a model-swap or counts-as.

Is it a gunline army? You have Tau and IG for that. Again, these just became counts-as.

MSU? Space Marines in a dozen flavors do this already.

Assault? Orks, certain flavors of Marines, Nids... these are bases already covered.

Armor? IG and Tau both do this very well already.

Blitz/Raiding? DE and Eldar both have the speed-and-mobility angles covered.

So, again, an honest question: What would be the selling point of this new army? What do they bring to the gaming table that justifies the product line?

To throw in some salt, C:SM can do all of those roles better than the armies that are built for them...

How about an army based around changing the conditions of the battle in some way?

you mean an army of "combat engineers" as it where? that could actually be a fun idea. basicly take the tech marine cover build up ability, the warpsmith cover destruction ability, and sort of build on those, where you have armies moving up, constructing fortifications and the like.. could be an intreasting way of setting an army up. one that takes a location, digs in and becomes REALLY hard to dislodge.

How about some sot of gestalt organism ? Squads start off powerful but their stats decline as they take casualties. Or army wide coordinated behavior.

Or an actual robot force, not Necrons. The automated servants mankind sent out to terraform the galaxy for them that eventually turned on them and lead to the dark ages, and the Imperiums distrust of AI.

 adamsouza wrote:
How about some sot of gestalt organism ? Squads start off powerful but their stats decline as they take casualties. Or army wide coordinated behavior.

I would actually do the opposite: an army of berserkers. When models in a unit die, the remaining models get stronger. That way, shooting at a unit and killing most of it does not remove most of the threat, so you have to use slightly different techniques against them.

From the top of my head:
- Sacrificial things: when you perform a specific attack (like use a special profile of a weapon), you loose 1W. Or you could have other stats: a robot that shoots with the suppa duppa gun has -2 Armor save for a turn (because the batteries are out of juice for the shield or whatnot). You can also have stuff that would lower other stats. So when you play, you must choose between a meh weapon, or a good one, but the 2nd option has a big drawback. In current 40K, jink is the closest thing I think, and choosing to jink or not often feels like a real tactical choice.
- Stuff that creates new stuff when dying (like the pink horrors in Silver tower, or is it the blue ones?)
- Models that can merge to make something else. Like the little toy robots that can be combine to make a big ass one. Or like the merging stuff in Dragon Ball. And GW gets to sell more models! Fluff wise it can psychic creatures, or robots
- An army with resources: you have power plants that generate power, and that power is needed by the other units to perform optimally. I think warmahorde is based on something like that (never played it so I don't know exactly). But maybe that's a far stretch for 40K.

BrianDavion wrote:
you mean an army of "combat engineers" as it where? that could actually be a fun idea. basicly take the tech marine cover build up ability, the warpsmith cover destruction ability, and sort of build on those, where you have armies moving up, constructing fortifications and the like.. could be an intreasting way of setting an army up. one that takes a location, digs in and becomes REALLY hard to dislodge.

I really like this idea. The number of times I have gotten screwed by random terrain and my opponent getting the roll to choose side... and then giving me the one with zero terrain... just *sigh*

Btw, has anyone any idea if this ghoul star xenos race is the genestealer cult that people are now saying is coming out? Makes not a lot of sense with the Tyranid stuff, but the odd things GW do are legion.

How about some sot of gestalt organism ? Squads start off powerful but their stats decline as they take casualties. Or army wide coordinated behavior.

Cult mechanicus/skitarii pretty much has this covered.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

The number of times I have gotten screwed by random terrain and my opponent getting the roll to choose side... and then giving me the one with zero terrain... just *sigh*

I've seen someone with two Combined Arms Detachments take an Imperial Strongpoint and a Void Relay Network as their fortification choices before. giving someone the 'empty' board half and watching them dunk down three aegis lines, three void shield generators, three bastions and a skyshield pad - not to mention more quad guns and ammo dumps than you can shake a stick at - was a disconcerting thing to see.

There's a few cool races from the hh books that I think would make good armies and models, the megarachnid Springs to mind

pax_imperialis wrote:
There's a few cool races from the hh books that I think would make good armies and models, the megarachnid Springs to mind

you'd need to make sure they stood out from Tyranids though

maybe take my earlier idea of combat engineers and mate them to that. so basicly "combat engineer battle spiders!"

locarno24 wrote:
I've seen someone with two Combined Arms Detachments take an Imperial Strongpoint and a Void Relay Network as their fortification choices before. giving someone the 'empty' board half and watching them dunk down three aegis lines, three void shield generators, three bastions and a skyshield pad - not to mention more quad guns and ammo dumps than you can shake a stick at - was a disconcerting thing to see.

Yikes...that would be pretty crazy. Until I can scratch build some counts as models though, I will probably still avoid fortifications. Yeah, I know they are awesome... but it does not make sense to me to have them if they are imperial models.

BrianDavion wrote:
maybe take my earlier idea of combat engineers and mate them to that. so basicly "combat engineer battle spiders!"

Yes! GW needs to make this now! I would throw so much money at it!

Building on fresus idea. How about canibalistic forces? When they devour their own they gain powerful battlefield effects depending on who they ate and how. It would offer some real risk reward play in terms of when you time feasting on your own units to buff up at critical moments. Get too greedy and you will cripple yourself.

From a modeling perspective the do it yourself folks would like my second suggestion. A force that is chimera like in nature. Beings who stick bits and pieces of everything else to create new ones of them. So it's not uncommon to see them with wildly differing forces from stitched together orks/CSM with bits of scrap metal to sew together rudimentary technology. As the bodies take damage the psychic force dissipates and whatever was holding it together is dead. From a pure modelling perspective bits of all types would go through the roof in value to create cool looking conversions and horrifying mockeries of the other factions.

 Gamgee wrote:
Building on fresus idea. How about canibalistic forces? When they devour their own they gain powerful battlefield effects depending on who they ate and how. It would offer some real risk reward play in terms of when you time feasting on your own units to buff up at critical moments. Get too greedy and you will cripple yourself.

From a modeling perspective the do it yourself folks would like my second suggestion. A force that is chimera like in nature. Beings who stick bits and pieces of everything else to create new ones of them. So it's not uncommon to see them with wildly differing forces from stitched together orks/CSM with bits of scrap metal to sew together rudimentary technology. As the bodies take damage the psychic force dissipates and whatever was holding it together is dead. From a pure modelling perspective bits of all types would go through the roof in value to create cool looking conversions and horrifying mockeries of the other factions.

that cannibal concept sounds neat. If someone came up with even a fandex of it, I would definitely be willing to play against it at the least.

 Stormonu wrote:
Cthulhu has only recently gone pubic domain, so that's part of why its not been present previously.

However, I think there's a lot of work that need to be done on current factions before they drop a(nother) new one on us, and to be honest, there's already too many factions in the game as is.

Parts of it are, parts of it aren't. Lovecraft ghost wrote a lot, which unfortunately puts some of his work in names of people who are not public domain.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

pax_imperialis wrote:
There's a few cool races from the hh books that I think would make good armies and models, the megarachnid Springs to mind

Didn't FW say they probably would do the great crusade at some point?

As much as I'd love them to release a whole new faction I think we're far more likely to get Xenos from a preexisting platform.

If Tau' weren't so ludicrously strong at the moment they would be a great candidate to explore things like the Slith or Kroot, just as the Harlies were expanded upon off the back of the Eldar.

Then again all these consecutive marine releases might prove to be primer to keep the imperium sweet when a new Xenos Dex finally does emerge?!

I'll be happy when the Genestealer Cult finally arrived either way!

It will be a long lost Space Marine chapter called the... Argent Strikers or something, who it turns out are 110% as important as the Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Grey Knights and Ultramarines, we just didn't know yet.

The threat in the Ghoul Stars will be a off-handed alien race something, something, in a board game that you use as fodder for the glory of the Emperor and this 'new', ancient and super important chapter.

What about a xenos faction from a planet that's half perpetual day and half perpetual night? And they fly around on a cloud of farts and are ready to be reviled!

Always wished that Nids and Necrons had stupidly high Deny the Witch rolls even against blessings for the Hive Mind being the Shadow in the Warp and the Necrons being something of a void in the warp...maybe for the Necrons an increase like a +1 in what the opponent needs to roll to harness.
Back to the topic of a new alien race I posted this before in another thread but I like the idea of body snatchers. Like the Yeerks from Animorphs.

I say go back to simple/classic creepy for a new xenos. HP Lovecraft said: “The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown”.

With that in mind, I'd like to see xenos that are terrifying yet simple. The lore would be fuzzy and left intentionally mysterious. Aesthetically, I think something like this would work:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/XbNI63RDLDA/hqdefault.jpg

They could bring back and update/flesh out some of the old Rogue Trader species, like the Saharduin.


I know 1d4chan is mostly a humor wiki, but there is plenty of serious (and obscure) information mixed in. Besides, it's the only wiki with any info on them:



https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Saharduin


Beware: Some material on 1d4chan might not be safe for work.

 kveldulf wrote:
I say go back to simple/classic creepy for a new xenos. HP Lovecraft said: “The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown”.

With that in mind, I'd like to see xenos that are terrifying yet simple. The lore would be fuzzy and left intentionally mysterious. Aesthetically, I think something like this would work:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/XbNI63RDLDA/hqdefault.jpg

That army existed once, they were called the Necrons.

GW rewrote their lore because certain segments of players whined that they couldn't name their ICs, paint their troops silly colors (even though the 4E necron codex even showed ~20 different color schemes), or relate to their motivations.

Jack Flask wrote:

 kveldulf wrote:
I say go back to simple/classic creepy for a new xenos. HP Lovecraft said: “The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown”.

With that in mind, I'd like to see xenos that are terrifying yet simple. The lore would be fuzzy and left intentionally mysterious. Aesthetically, I think something like this would work:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/XbNI63RDLDA/hqdefault.jpg

That army existed once, they were called the Necrons.

GW rewrote their lore because certain segments of players whined that they couldn't name their ICs, paint their troops silly colors (even though the 4E necron codex even showed ~20 different color schemes), or relate to their motivations.

I sense lament and cynicism - which I share.

I think Necrons were better when barely elaborated upon. Heck, I think xenos races in general would be more evocative if lore was better restrained... it would have made them more alien.

Jack Flask wrote:

 kveldulf wrote:
I say go back to simple/classic creepy for a new xenos. HP Lovecraft said: “The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown”.

With that in mind, I'd like to see xenos that are terrifying yet simple. The lore would be fuzzy and left intentionally mysterious. Aesthetically, I think something like this would work:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/XbNI63RDLDA/hqdefault.jpg

That army existed once, they were called the Necrons.

GW rewrote their lore because certain segments of players whined that they couldn't name their ICs, paint their troops silly colors (even though the 4E necron codex even showed ~20 different color schemes), or relate to their motivations.

That army exists now. It's a Tau without his fishbowl.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

Jack Flask wrote:

 kveldulf wrote:
I say go back to simple/classic creepy for a new xenos. HP Lovecraft said: “The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown”.

With that in mind, I'd like to see xenos that are terrifying yet simple. The lore would be fuzzy and left intentionally mysterious. Aesthetically, I think something like this would work:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/XbNI63RDLDA/hqdefault.jpg

That army existed once, they were called the Necrons.

GW rewrote their lore because certain segments of players whined that they couldn't name their ICs, paint their troops silly colors (even though the 4E necron codex even showed ~20 different color schemes), or relate to their motivations.

That army exists now. It's a Tau without his fishbowl.

Heheh yea. What about a mutated offshoot of tau (as the imperium is to chaos?)? Or perhaps some new origin story of the Tau - and how they once looked like our classic modern aliens (and these older versions are now back from an intergalactic voyage)

Or... we could just do space lizards with crazy looking Cthulhu overlords? I think there's even a cult like following of people that actually believe in the existence of reptilian aliens (no kidding). So there's fluff to bastardize with.

 kveldulf wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

Jack Flask wrote:

 kveldulf wrote:
I say go back to simple/classic creepy for a new xenos. HP Lovecraft said: “The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown”.

With that in mind, I'd like to see xenos that are terrifying yet simple. The lore would be fuzzy and left intentionally mysterious. Aesthetically, I think something like this would work:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/XbNI63RDLDA/hqdefault.jpg

That army existed once, they were called the Necrons.

GW rewrote their lore because certain segments of players whined that they couldn't name their ICs, paint their troops silly colors (even though the 4E necron codex even showed ~20 different color schemes), or relate to their motivations.

That army exists now. It's a Tau without his fishbowl.

Heheh yea. What about a mutated offshoot of tau (as the imperium is to chaos?)? Or perhaps some new origin story of the Tau - and how they once looked like our classic modern aliens (and these older versions are now back from an intergalactic voyage)

Or... we could just do space lizards with crazy looking Cthulhu overlords? I think there's even a cult like following of people that actually believe in the existence of reptilian aliens (no kidding). So there's fluff to bastardize with.

Lizards and squids...sounds tasty actually.

so going back to the "spider combat engineers" idea here's my idea...

I've not thought up a name, but apparently the Tau and farsight codxes mentions a race named the Archen's that seems to fit somewhat, could be intreasting to tie them in.

Basic racial premise: Shorter ranged, with powerful melee elites, and combat engineer functions.

HQ: I'm thinking it'd be a fairly basic HQ but also have some real super engineer powers, maybe it and any units in a group with it get a bonus to their cover save.

Troops: Drones: these are basic cheap troopers, I'm thinking IG level BS and WS, if not even lower, they'll be cheap and have a special "deploy cover" special rule that eaither improves their cover save or gives em a pretty solid one. by itself. give em a heavy 2 or 3 weapon, to enchourage a "dig in" mentality.

Fast Attack: 1st: Swarmers: these guys I'm thinking would be small and light and be a swarm like rippers, they'd be jump troops (fluffed as spitting parachutes to glide over the battle field) maybe give em a option to upgrade their weapons to rending.
2:
Elites: A few options, this is where the Codex should really come alive.
1st: your melee elite, 3+ armor, 2 wounds, multiple attacks, AP3 melee weapons, and a flamer style weapon for ranged work.
2: Dis-assemblers: a cheap unit that's little more then drone optimized for melee work and the special ability to reduce cover saves provided by a peice of terrain they're in contact with. use these guys as a disposable assault unit. rush em in as a first wave, and start making those aegis lines less effective.
3: your ranged specialists with some nice powerful ranged poison weapons.

Heavy Support: A Monsterous creature. I'm thinking more like a tailless scorpion then a spider. with the big pincers clearly designed for smash aside structures, tanks etc. give it a bonus on attacking buildings.


anyway thats just some random ideas

well I think we all now know the new xeno codex is genestealer cults now...