This is a game I have been following for a while and they are launching the KS on October 14th at 12pm EST, so I figured I would share it here!
Deep Madness is a cooperative board game, depicting a sci-fi horror world inspired by Lovecraft and Alien series
Right up my alley!
Also has a bit of a The Thing, Event Horizon and Sphere vibe in my opinion.
Miniature manufacturing is "likely" (according to their FB posts) going to be Ludo Fact (yay!)
There will be timed EB's available in the first 24 hours.
$100 for core game and stretch goals, $90 EB.
There are lots of pics to be found on their Facebook page (https://m.facebook.com/deepmadnessgame/) and Board Game Geek, but here's a few to give you the idea:
The sculpts are great. I'll need confirmation of who's making the minis and with what material - i.e. more evidence of the final published quality - to consider backing it. I'd also like to know who's doing the proofreading, as the gamemakers appear to speak English as a second language, and I'm not fond of reading rules that are hard to follow due to grammar issues.
As for the vision informing the art and minis, bravo. Just what I've been hoping for. They'd have me in a second if I knew I could count on the final product looking as good as the resins they're displaying.
Aeneades wrote: If you like and share the top post on the Facebook page before launch you can claim add a free epic monster miniature to your core box pledge.
I don't understand quite how they'll manage that, but I did it and already got two people telling me they'll be backing it when it launches, so it is a pretty smart idea from them!
Aeneades wrote: If you like and share the top post on the Facebook page before launch you can claim add a free epic monster miniature to your core box pledge.
Good timing for the start date. Right between the other projects I'm watching and before it gets too crazy with all the new games that usually come out in Nov.
Aeneades wrote: If you like and share the top post on the Facebook page before launch you can claim add a free epic monster miniature to your core box pledge.
Nice! Thanks for the info Nostro, this thread is literally the first I've heard of this and from the BGG entry it seems like Dead Space Underwater with HP Lovecraft taking a hand.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Just remember you more than likely won't have to pay for this until November, so all you whining about having no money currently, you're in the clear!
At least that's what I'm telling myself...
I've already said that for several other projects, that cash is long gone
The board is built with room tiles. And other elements are placed on it, such as submerged marker, spawn marker, devoured effect tokens, and scenario cards.
The game takes place in a deep sea mining facility, so there will be submerged rooms, in which the drowning rules take effect. Investigators cannot stay too long in submerged area, or they will receive a lot of damage, even die instantly. A careful plan is needed.
The double sided tile represents the 2 states of a single room, with the normal side and the "devoured" side. After a room is devoured, a spawn marker is placed on one of its spaces, this room will spawn monsters from now on. For the other space(s) of this room, random effect tokens will be placed, which provide a variety of nasty negative effects that hinder the investigators. As the game progresses, more and more rooms will be devoured, at last, the whole place will turn into hell.
The order in which the room is devoured is random, which is determined by flipping the room deck, together with the random devoured effects, the game board will have plenty of dynamic. The core game comes with 30 room tiles, these are some of them.
Okay. This looks really really cool. But why is that all awesome kickstarters must come at the same time? I pledged, so I will have to see if I can scrounge some more money from somewhere.
From the Contact name and name of the image uploader on BGG, it looks like a China-based company. They've named names only of the artists, and the game designer has posted on BGG a few times about Deep Madness.
Ludo Fact is manufacturing the mini's, but that doesn't tell us how the rest of the project will be managed.
Deep Madness is made by Diemension Games, a board game designing and publishing company based in California, US. We have offices in Los Angeles and Beijing. Our LA office mainly focuses on designing and publishing, while the Beijing office manages manufacturing and production.
Did a quick search for their CA office and found this:
They have a email contact at diemensiongames.com but no active website at that url atm.
So far, I've tentatively backed. Things I like:
- positive render vs art ratio
- rules provided from day 1. Not that I'm an expert, but I know the fine folk at BGG will go thru this with a fine tooth comb
- overall polish and level of thought put into the game and the KS presentation seems high (so far)
Things pinging my KS alarm bells:
- relatively unknown KS company -> hopefully I learn more about them before the campaign ends
- who are the rule designers and what are their backgrounds? -> again hopefully get to know these before campaign ends, since they've shared the names of their artists and sculptors already
- too many stretch goals -> I hate extra stuff because 90% of the time it means wave shipping months if not years after the core product is delivered (in itself 1 year out from today). The more stretch goals pile up the more I tune them out and instead concentrate on what I think I'll be getting Wave 1 for my pledge dollar. Dropfleet KS is currently getting flak for delays but you could tell their stretch goals were carefully considered during the campaign, and as a result I'm getting EVERYTHING I pledged for this month, in one big box, and not split up month / years down the road.
The artwork is damn impressive. The tiles look very cool (love the double-sided normal/corrupted nature), the monster minis are simply fantastic. I'm in for the game, the two optional big dudes and the expansion (I'm a completionist).
The unlocked stretch goals, are they additional buy ins or included add-ons?
My only concern is what you're going to make the models out of. I've been burned heavily by this a few times (the Mike McVey game being the best/worst example of that, and the Mantic not-Necromunda game as well).
H.B.M.C. wrote: The artwork is damn impressive. The tiles look very cool (love the double-sided normal/corrupted nature), the monster minis are simply fantastic. I'm in for the game, the two optional big dudes and the expansion (I'm a completionist).
The unlocked stretch goals, are they additional buy ins or included add-ons?
My only concern is what you're going to make the models out of. I've been burned heavily by this a few times (the Mike McVey game being the best/worst example of that, and the Mantic not-Necromunda game as well).
The things listed as stretch goals are included I think, the pledge level mentions it includes all unlocked stretch goals.
The things listed as optional buys must be bought in addition.
I am much more careful about backing these days after being burned by dust, robotech, and wrath of demons; however I backed this.
The theme was great (love underwater stuff), the mini renders look great (Vin diesel anyone?), and the game looks like a mix between zombicide and the others.
Cool stuff so far. Hopefully we see more characters and maybe some resin or plastic minis.
That's the 'however' part in my sentence. It looks like a great game and great minis, so I'm willing to take a calculated risk here.
I've backed several games from unknown manufacturers (the first zombicide from cmon/guillotine games... cmon hadn't made much before that and GG hadn't made any other games to my knowledge before that). I also backed relicblade, that was one of the best kickstarters I ever backed. Sometimes the risk is worth it.
However, I am more careful. I pass over many kickstarters these days that peak my interest.
A little over one day in and I'm already feeling like even if the rules are complete gak at the very least I will end up with a seriously large pile of swanky monsters to use.
Hopefully the actual rules aren't complete gak.
Considering how much stuff is already included and the speed at which it is growing, I wonder if this will enter CMON/ Conan levels of funding and massive piles of figures.
I asked for more info about the project managers / KS Contacts and Collaborator on their FB page and got this response:
Deep Madness Yichuan Wang and 李倩(Cherry Li) are both our team members indeed, working in LA and Beijing seperatly. They are in charge of the operational jobs, not as famous as the artists and sculptors. So there is few information about them. BTW Ludo Fact will be our producing partner for this project. And our Beijing Office is keeping up closely.
That's not very much, so I'm asking for more information. For all we know, the staff of Diemension Games have been producing games for other game companies for years -- or not.
I also have 200+ Cthulhu miniatures to paint from Cthulhu Wars, RAFM, and my old Grenadier miniatures. Not to mention all the Reaper and CMON stuff. Might be a good time to cut back.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: A little over one day in and I'm already feeling like even if the rules are complete gak at the very least I will end up with a seriously large pile of swanky monsters to use.
Hopefully the actual rules aren't complete gak.
There is a rulebook download link on the project page, and the rules received a thumbs up in Undead Viking's review.
Sammy reposted on BGG their answer about game experience.
have you guys worked on any other games before striking out on your own?
Any previous game design experience?
We haven't TBH. And we are learning from other experienced big companies, like CMON. We shared our creations with the extraordinary illustrators, sculptors, and designers all around the globe and received their enthusiastic feedback, and that is how Deep Madness is born. Now we have confirmed our manufacturer, Ludo Fact, they are great at miniature board game manufacture.
The designer of Deep Madness is Roger Ho, who has designed tabletop games since 2013. Deep Madness might be the first published work of his.
Although Diemension Games is a young company, we know what gamers want, because we are all gamers, backers, and dreamers. Please give us a chance to prove ourselves and make our dreams come true.
Thank you for all your support!
A week pound to dollar.
First time project for the company (game not just Kickstarter)
A victory of willpower over shiney syndrome
It's reminding me of sedition wars
From reading the rules it would appear that you only ever face 6 types of monster per scenario (1 per investigator), and that it is possible to have none of any time at certain types, giving investigators a (short) free reign to complete objectives, or perhaps the monster type that has spawned happens to be dead last in the order, giving the investigators lots of time to prepare.
Doesn't seem like the 'horde' game that Zombicide is.
My only real concern reading the rules is book keeping the monsters. Keeping track of your own character/s isn't an issue, but when you can have wounded creatures on the board, and some have more than 2 wounds, keeping track of all that through counters could get very confusing and bog down the game (a miniature game like 40K this is not!). I know they come with rings that have little slots for counters, but swapping in and out counters and keeping track of wounds as more and more things spawn could be a potential problem.
There's something to be said of Zombicide's very simplistic and elegant damage system (ie. weapons do X damage, most things can only take X damage, so anything that does that or above kills them, yet some take 'Y' damage, so if your weapon doesn't do Y or Z damage, and only does X damage then that weapon cannot hurt it).
My only real concern reading the rules is book keeping the monsters. Keeping track of your own character/s isn't an issue, but when you can have wounded creatures on the board, and some have more than 2 wounds, keeping track of all that through counters could get very confusing and bog down the game (a miniature game like 40K this is not!). I know they come with rings that have little slots for counters, but swapping in and out counters and keeping track of wounds as more and more things spawn could be a potential problem.
Games like Descent can have up to a dozen different monsters on the board, all with varying damages, and while it might not be quite as simple as the Zombicide-system, it's definitely no biggie.
At its most simple level that it's a sci fi miniatures board game with funky monsters
More than that its the (I might sound daft but bear with me) emotions it's bringing up.
I'm excited, as excited as I was when sedition war was going.
the sculpts wer seeing are really nice and interesting, there's lots and lots being offered all looking cooler and cooler. I can't wait to see the next mini.
Unfortunately/fortunately (will only tell in hindsight) some Kickstarter "fails" have made given me the resolve to say no to the shinies.
Are there any recent miniatures produced by Ludo Fact that I can google to give me an idea of potential quality? I'm pretty tempted, but my impression is that most miniatures for similar projects end up being of a quality lower than I care to own.
Gallahad wrote: Are there any recent miniatures produced by Ludo Fact that I can google to give me an idea of potential quality? I'm pretty tempted, but my impression is that most miniatures for similar projects end up being of a quality lower than I care to own.
Pretty sure they did the miniatures for Blood Rage and The Others: 7 Sins
Now, I'd like to know at what point Ludo Fact Asia takes over miniature production, and up to what point Diemensional Games is responsible for it.
Anyone remember Torn Armor? If Diemensional Games's project managers don't know how to vet their sculptor's renders, a sculptor may submit a render that cannot be made into a miniature. Of course, it's then in Ludo Fact's best interest to help the client understand what they can and cannot do with a render. If anyone remembers Torn Armor, their manufacturer, Defiance Games (or whatever their name was) said the renders submitted to them were unusable (and, yes, Defiance Games is no Ludo Fact).
As for quality, what do you mean by quality? If it's material used for the miniatures, anticipate boardgame plastic, like CMON uses. If it's how well the mini's are sculpted, I guess it depends on the sculptor, more than the manufacturer. Ludo Fact isn't the party I'm most concerned about.
I would just be concerned that this doesn't turn out like Limana Games' War of Wonders. Tons of communication during the Kickstarter and prior, with a reputable manufacturer handling production (Greebo games in their case), but then once the Kickstarter finishes, communications peters out and nothing is heard from them again. I suppose that risk is inherent though with all Kickstarters.
as you can see from these shot from their facebook
the renders are suitable for 3d printing since they've got resin masters for people to play with at conventions, so they'll be suitable for making the metal moulds
HOLY CRAP...
I'm only just now seeing this after seeing a bunch of people on Star Saga belly-aching about how big this has gotten.
WOW.. This is an example of the type of focus I was hoping to see Mantic bring and here we are seeing it out of a new company. Seemingly interesting gameplay (they have drowning.. who even does that!?!?) plus those miniatures..
I'm in now too. I was interested in Star Saga but that just feels kinda lackluster to me. This one seems to be a lot more polished and more up my alley.
Yeah, it's sweet as hell. I just wish I could get a second, maybe even third, batch of minis, but they're not interested in doing anything that won't be in retail packaging, I guess.
lord_blackfang wrote: Yeah, it's sweet as hell. I just wish I could get a second, maybe even third, batch of minis, but they're not interested in doing anything that won't be in retail packaging, I guess.
With Ludo Fact manufacturing the complete game for them it would be more time, money and hassle to offer the core minis seperately.
If they did, it probably wouldn't be for much less than just adding another core game (which then comes with another set of SG).
The True Ending has really piqued my interest. I love stories like this!
Even if I never play a minute of this, my D&D game is all about squiddly creatures and the stopping them from ruining the world. This has been nothing but a godsend.
And to be honest, I see myself playing this a lot!
str00dles1 wrote: Literally everything about this is 100 times better then that Star Saga crapo mantic is peddling.
I'd agree with that overall, but not quite everything is better here. Deep Madness isn't interested in doing alternate poses, so all monsters have one sculpt per type. That's not necessarily a deal killer for me, but it's not my preference, and Star Saga does have that going for it. Considering how much Diemension games have apparently been looking at CMON campaigns, it's too bad they can't emulate the varied poses / sculpts that CMON campaigns regularly give their zombies. Even just doing two different poses per monster type (at least for the horde types that will appear in large numbers) would make a huge visual difference.
str00dles1 wrote: Literally everything about this is 100 times better then that Star Saga crapo mantic is peddling.
I'd agree with that overall, but not quite everything is better here. Deep Madness isn't interested in doing alternate poses, so all monsters have one sculpt per type. That's not necessarily a deal killer for me, but it's not my preference, and Star Saga does have that going for it. Considering how much Diemension games have apparently been looking at CMON campaigns, it's too bad they can't emulate the varied poses / sculpts that CMON campaigns regularly give their zombies. Even just doing two different poses per monster type (at least for the horde types that will appear in large numbers) would make a huge visual difference.
Yea, but its more of a if there's a tooon of the same thing ,youd want to mix it up. It was a stretch goal unlock for a few alternate sculpts for Acradia Quest Inferno, and that's because they got a ton of money for it. (Granted this is getting a lot too)
Zombies did it cause your seeing the same enemy type over and over, their pirate game(which escapes me) had alternate sculpts because again, tons of the same thing.
For this type of game where there seems to be a large variety of enemies mixed up, I don't mind it so much seeing same sculpt. But just personal preference
I'd love alternate sculpts, but it's no where near a deal breaker. I think what's there is cool enough to stand on its own.
Looking at Star Saga I'm reminded it's Mantic and after Deadzone, no thanks. That said, the 3D terrain pieces could be very cool. I might pledge just to get those.
Alternate sculpts cost money for the molds. DG is doing a smart thing by using fewer molds and offering more mini's.
The usual caveat is that we don't know anything about DG's project management experience. In a BGG thread, they said they didn't have previous game publishing experience.
It's a First Created KS, so pledge full well knowing that *something* unwanted may happen that wouldn't happen retail.
Exploding Kittens made it on time, reaching most backers on the final day of the estimated month despite the fact that it was massively more popular then expected.
I like alt models but I'm fine with these being the same. New models get real expensive real fast. Not only are there mold costs but also sculpting costs. It looks like some of their sculpts are greenstuff, so 1 alt pose is 1 whole new sculpt, not like 3D where the sculptor can just change the position and export a new file to print. I'd rather see them stay on target and on budget, than start making tons of new promises
Nostromodamus wrote: I'm always bewildered by people dropping because they can't afford add-ons. You don't HAVE to buy them...
Heheh ... oh, I'm not dropping out. Just not buying all the add-ons. For an impatient completionist like me that goes against my normal instincts of getting it ALL and all at once.
I plan to get base plus expansions. As cool as doors would be tokens are well enough, and I can buy the doors later at some point im sure. If there is one thing ive learned with kickstarters is try to keep your order simple, as that usually means yours will ship sooner then the complicated ones.
Reaper will have Dagon in Bones plastic. They may have just closed the pledge manager, but see if you can be a late backer or wait for retail. Lower price, less waiting time, and you'll know it'll be released after you pay for it.
ced1106 wrote: Reaper will have Dagon in Bones plastic. They may have just closed the pledge manager, but see if you can be a late backer or wait for retail. Lower price, less waiting time, and you'll know it'll be released after you pay for it.
ced1106 wrote: Reaper will have Dagon in Bones plastic. They may have just closed the pledge manager, but see if you can be a late backer or wait for retail. Lower price, less waiting time, and you'll know it'll be released after you pay for it.
Thanks for the information. I think I may have pledged for Bones Dagon, already. I'll certainly end up with most of the Bones Mythos monsters in my collection. However, I intended to ask about this version of Dagon while lamenting that the bundle, like most KS add on bundles, includes a ton of chaff seemingly just to raise the price beyond what I'd be willing to pay for the gems.
ced1106 wrote: Reaper will have Dagon in Bones plastic. They may have just closed the pledge manager, but see if you can be a late backer or wait for retail. Lower price, less waiting time, and you'll know it'll be released after you pay for it.
Thanks for the information. I think I may have pledged for Bones Dagon, already. I'll certainly end up with most of the Bones Mythos monsters in my collection. However, I intended to ask about this version of Dagon while lamenting that the bundle, like most KS add on bundles, includes a ton of chaff seemingly just to raise the price beyond what I'd be willing to pay for the gems.
I rather like all of the content in the expansion. Different strokes and all that
Yay! They are definitely totally adorable. I want one as pet now.
And that new expansion... It is so awesome. But the costs are adding up. I am afraid completionist me is going to end up wasting his entire monthly wage on this. I really wish I had more self-control.
Game components and miniatures look incredible...my only apprehension is that I already own all of the Zombicide games...and if this plays like Zombicide, I've got that itch scratched a hundred-fold.
My initial thoughts with the cthulhu theme, the asymmetrically sized board tiles, and the 'investigator' hints were that it reminded me of Mansions of Madness..which I also already have. I really love the sci-fi twist and the underwater base theme...but other than the pretty models, which I'm drowning in already...I really need it to give me a really fresh and unique gaming experience to make it worth the time/cost investment (because Id have to paint it of course!)
Fango wrote: Game components and miniatures look incredible...my only apprehension is that I already own all of the Zombicide games...and if this plays like Zombicide, I've got that itch scratched a hundred-fold.
My initial thoughts with the cthulhu theme, the asymmetrically sized board tiles, and the 'investigator' hints were that it reminded me of Mansions of Madness..which I also already have. I really love the sci-fi twist and the underwater base theme...but other than the pretty models, which I'm drowning in already...I really need it to give me a really fresh and unique gaming experience to make it worth the time/cost investment (because Id have to paint it of course!)
While the core player mechanics remind me of Zombicide with the low # of player actions, using 1 per move, search, attack, and how weapons work, the game goes it's own way with how monsters spawn and interact. It is vastly different at that point and the tile corruption concept is very cool.
Nice. I wish it included the exclusive characters from the expansions and monsters. I want them, but spending the $300+ to get all of them is not a possibility for me right now.
We have reached $1,088k, so the Hunter cards are now unlocked.
New stretch goals added (not much as far as pictures go, so I'll just describe them to save those of you that do not want a bunch of pics):
$1,210k - new sculpts for the victim and collector monster models in the Oracle's Betrayal expansion and new sculpts for the Deep One monsters in the Rise of Dagon expansion.
$1,240k - new sculpts for the bloated, parasite, and grudge monsters
Are there any examples of rookie companies successfully delivering a +$1mil project like this? I really want to jump in, but the lack of experience/reputation is worrisome.
Clanan wrote: Are there any examples of rookie companies successfully delivering a +$1mil project like this? I really want to jump in, but the lack of experience/reputation is worrisome.
Petersen Game's Cthulhu Wars delivered. However Sandy Petersen has been in the video game and roleplaying business for decades, and taught a game design seminar. I felt Cthulhu Wars was a higher-than-average risk, and, if it wasn't for the Cthulhu miniatures, I would not have backed it. He and his sons were *very* communicative during the KS, including on BGG, although that's more like something reassuring when making a decision to back the project. (AFAIK, Diemensional Games is primarily Chinese, so I'd only expect an English-speaking person as a liason on their KS, rather than expect to interact with their primary staff.)
I don't know anything about Stonemaier Games before KS. I only backed their projects after they released two boardgames. Anyone have info?
Otherwise, I'm drawing blanks:
* Monolith: Staff had experience publishing boardgames before forming Monolith (eg. Bombyx).
* CMON: Sold miniatures long before KS. (Not sure if they made miniatures.)
* Flying Frog Productions: Published retail games before Shadows of Brimstone.
* Mantic: Published retail miniature wargames before KS.
* Cryptozoic: Published retail boardgames before KS.
* Reaper: Manufactured retail miniatures before KS.
* Greenbrier Games: Manufactured miniatures before KS (?) and made miniatures for other KS projects.
* MegaCon Games: Published a small scale metal miniatures retail game before KS.
* Dwarven Forge: Manufactured retail-level resin game tiles for over a decade before KS.
* Queen Games: Published retail boardgames before KS.
* Soda Pop Miniatures: Published retail boardgames before KS (?). Partnered with CMON before managing their own KS projects.
Others, which I did not back:
* Gamezone: Hasn't delivered. Probably ran out of money.
* Prodos: 3+ years to deliver AvP. Ran out of money.
* Palladium: 3+ years to deliver Robotech. Still has not delivered wave 2. Probably ran out of money.
Based on the example above, none of them are really similar to this company. It's brand new, has no one in the industry that seems to be recognised. The only thing is that we know who it's proposed manufacturing partner is.
The last time I backed a game by rookies from Asia was Journey. And that has been an utter kick in the pants for me. Delivered core game, NFI when any add-ons or so on will deliver. Dude goes silent for months at a time. Utter disappointment. Also had a lot of miniatures to show at the time of the KS but production apparently is not progressing. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1588487845/journey-wrath-of-demons
Did Kingdom Death: Monster have any experience before the first KS? They raised 2.5 million in their first, and from what I can tell, people are relatively happy with it?
They had experience with mini making and running a functional business (and had trialled the pvc material they had originally planned to use although they switched to HIPS post KS), but no experience in game design
I'd put this at a 8-9 so I'm not backing it I guess. I'm not really seeing how they'll be able to produce everything for the core pledge at 100 usd.
It's 161 minis at 100usd now? That's amazing since it'll cost even less per mini than a normal Zombicide KS. It's an even better deal than Bones III, which gave you 158 minis for a 100usd pledge but without cardboard box for a game or tiles or card printing etc etc etc etc.
Red_Ink_Cat wrote: So... on a scale of 1 (very little risk) to 10 (so much risk you probably are not getting anything)... this KS is a...?
for me it's about a 2 (ie a pretty low risk of getting nothing but it is there) to 5 (a moderate risk of getting something disappointing assuming you want a great game and great minis)
a bunch of work has been done on making the game (you can download the rough rules)
plenty of the minis have been sculpted both traditionally and digitally (and at least some of the renders have been successfully printed, a major potential problem if you were just using a 3d artist rather than one who knows about making stuff to be physically made at the end of the day)
a bunch of the digital art is done
they've got an established company as a manufacturer
yes it's loads of minis but there are a bunch of duplicates that won't cost a lot to produce (once you have the mould and are running it anyway)
shipping isn't included so they won't have to worry about price rises
but there are issues to be concerned about
it will be late, 6 months would be good, 12 months wouldn't surprise me
the minis won't be HIPS sharp, (i'd expect reaper bones quality, but it could be better, if they're CMON quality i'd be ecstatic)
the game itself could be rubbish (the basic idea seems ok, but depending on your player group and how much you expect it could end up a shelf queen)
shipping could be a lot in a years time, id put aside $60+
there's a chance they may have underestimated the costs or they manufacture suddenly asks for more which could kill things (on the other hand they look to have independent money available as they've got a lot done preKS), or if Trump really rolls back on free trade they could manufacture it and find the needed a lot more cash to import it into the US from China
As a counterpoint to how many minis they're "giving away" here versus other games, Mythic Battles is currently sitting at an extra 53 minis outside of their core game, some of quite significant size, plus there's still a good 20+ days for them to throw even more stuff in the box. For roughly the same price too.
MegaCon's Myth and Recon gave a fairly hefty amount of swag for their stretch goals as well.
If you notice, the goals have gotten some reasonable distance between them as well, so they seem to be somewhat fiscally observant in doling out all the freebies to us.
They also showed off how they plan on boxing up and packaging all these bonuses.
Plus Isaac just showed up to the party....
With a full day to go and another 200,000 to make, not sure if he'll get to be included. Hopefully...
Sining wrote: Double post? Also, 1 is the lowest risk Orlando, so yours would be more like 9 to 5?
Edit: whoops, looks like I'm a bit late to the party.
Looking into them more. I am prone to agree with the 2-5. I let the fear-mongering get to me a bit. Yes, the company has as of yet been unknown, but the amount of stuff I have seen on their FB page and KS page is pretty awesome. (The pics of the sculpts are particularly promising to me as well, especially since they appear to commission the sculpt far before the model is even unlocked. I also like that there are more than one place they seem to have sent produced models - Viking Games got some, and they appear to have premiered some at a number of conventions - and I find that even more promising.)
I would not at all be surprised if it took them longer to ship than anticipated with all of these models and unlocks, but they really seem to have their poop in a group, pardon the colloquialism.
No way it all ships on time. Wouldn't be surprised if they go the route of base game in one wave, all the extra stuff a few months later.
Glad I am not reading this thing horribly wrong.
I am entirely prepared for that and kind of expect it as well. But, as long as I get the core game, I will be quite happy (I would be a bit disappointed, but I expect the game to go for $100 anyway, so as long as I get a decent quality game, I'm all good. And as far as I am concerned, this game is going to be loads of fun. But my group pretty much only plays co-op and horror and sci-fi are pretty common.)
Sining wrote: I'd put this at a 8-9 so I'm not backing it I guess. I'm not really seeing how they'll be able to produce everything for the core pledge at 100 usd.
It's 161 minis at 100usd now? That's amazing since it'll cost even less per mini than a normal Zombicide KS. It's an even better deal than Bones III, which gave you 158 minis for a 100usd pledge but without cardboard box for a game or tiles or card printing etc etc etc etc.
fwiw, It's the number of unique sculpts, not the number of mini's that drives the price up. While I haven't been following the number of sculpts, I did notice many of the miniatures were multiples. With Reaper, almost every miniature was a unique sculpt, although many were based on existing metal miniatures. I'm too lazy -- if anyone can compare the number of sculpts in DM vs. Zombicide, I'd appreciate it.
I'll give this one a 9. I'm pretty suspicious of KS campaigns nowadays, after following various KS campaigns that have pretty much dried up and left backers waiting over three years. I posted a thread on BGG and wrote PMs to the game designer and "collaborator" (who, afaik, is one of the leads on the project) to post info about the company's game and project management experience three weeks ago, with no response. Another backer said Diemensional Games wasn't answering questions about their experience, either. Also, their California office is only four months old, which doesn't fit their claim that "Deep Madness is made by Diemension Games, a board game designing and publishing company based in California." Their early updates and KS comments were in less proficient English, while their FB contests weren't. Are they using a KS liason only through the duration of the KS campaign? I dunno. I finally don't have a sense of accountability with the project. That's a vague (and weak) statement, but what if the project starts failing and they disappear? At least with Sandy Petersen, we can find his home address and bring the torches and pitchforks.
I'd still say this company has a higher chance of delivering than some other KS I've followed, and some backers *can* pledge $100+ and walk away if things go south, including receiving miniatures that weren't as good as promised. Myself, I've been on KS for 3+ years, and in that "short" amount of time, am overflowing with miniatures, particularly Lovecraftian ones through Cthulhu Wars (that one was an 8 for me) and RAFM (made a mistake on underestimating the risk on that one). With Mythic Battles, Reaper, Rise of Moloch, Kingdom Death, Black Scorpion, and Steve Jackson Games (and Mythic Battles?) on the KS potential shopping list (plus two Mantic armies and Mech vs. Minions to paint), it's hard to add more projects to the painting queue, unless they really add something to my 10K miniature collection.
It'll be interesting to see the actual sculpts. Some of them, like the Eater of Worlds, are miniatures I would love. I'm not pre-ordering a year in advance without seeing a cast just for that miniature though.
For the core box, there are approximately 51 unique sculpts (counting the 3 sculpted counters and the sculpted closed hatches).
I wish I could say there were sculpt pics of all of their models, but it's a bit difficult to traverse the sheer amount of stuff on their FB page from my phone. Still, most of the models in the core game were already completed pre-KS or have been sculpted before the model was unlocked. One notable exception is the Unbound model, although I think that one is just getting finished up. I saw that the sculptor had posted an almost-complete WIP relatively recently.
I wonder how many man hours it would take to knock up a kickstarter that 'looked' just like a cmon kickstarter in every way possible. I bet if it took in 1million plus it would still be one heck of an hourly rate for the people involved.
There's a few figures I'm potentially interested in having, but this KS has me more worried than many other smaller less professional ones I've followed. Especially this promise of immortalising the top 3 KS commenters - filling the comments section with self important spammers - the type who do so on every KS they're involved with before moving on to the next.
Whilst I would have loved to stay in I just can't justify the package at the moment with the exchange rates how they currently are and with the amount of games I will be receiving within the next 12 months.
I will be giving up an early bird pledge in a few moments and I also can provide my facebook name if someone wanted to claim my free epic model (I shared a facebook post a few months ago to get a free model).
Aeneades wrote: Whilst I would have loved to stay in I just can't justify the package at the moment with the exchange rates how they currently are and with the amount of games I will be receiving within the next 12 months.
I will be giving up an early bird pledge in a few moments and I also can provide my facebook name if someone wanted to claim my free epic model (I shared a facebook post a few months ago to get a free model).
Sining wrote: I'd put this at a 8-9 so I'm not backing it I guess. I'm not really seeing how they'll be able to produce everything for the core pledge at 100 usd.
It's 161 minis at 100usd now? That's amazing since it'll cost even less per mini than a normal Zombicide KS. It's an even better deal than Bones III, which gave you 158 minis for a 100usd pledge but without cardboard box for a game or tiles or card printing etc etc etc etc.
fwiw, It's the number of unique sculpts, not the number of mini's that drives the price up. While I haven't been following the number of sculpts, I did notice many of the miniatures were multiples. With Reaper, almost every miniature was a unique sculpt, although many were based on existing metal miniatures. I'm too lazy -- if anyone can compare the number of sculpts in DM vs. Zombicide, I'd appreciate it.
Well, depends on how much miniatures cost per model to make? As what's the base cost of just making 1 PVC miniature? 0.30 usd? 040? Anyone have any idea?
Gimgamgoo wrote: I wonder how many man hours it would take to knock up a kickstarter that 'looked' just like a cmon kickstarter in every way possible. I bet if it took in 1million plus it would still be one heck of an hourly rate for the people involved.
H.B.M.C. wrote: And all the demo kits they sent out for review?
Hey! I'm trying to forget Rahdo and Project: ELITE!
Not seeing a scam here, either, but I think any discussion of a scam is a sidetrack. Most KS aren't scams, and, if a KS fails because of inadequate funds or poor project management, the result is the same.
Not saying that's what will happen with Deep Madness. "In the absence of information", and all that. It's just that Diemaster Games hasn't provided that information.
First Kickstarter I ever went into was the original Zombicide. Didn't know anything about the company making it, didn't know anything about Kickstarter - it just looked like a cool game.
And stuff was delayed, took longer than expected, and arrived piecemeal. And you know what? It taught me that some Kickstarters take forever, and I can live with that.
Sometimes I bug out (like the Soda Pop Relic Knights one where I got a refund), and other times I just forget about them until they arrive (like the first Raging Heroes).
So we're got a group of newbies who are about to launch a big game with lots of expansions. Something's going to go wrong. They're going to hit Chinese New Year and not realise how much of an impact it will cause. Things will be late, and some things might get shifted into different waves, or more waves might be added.
*shrugs*
Thems the breaks, and the cost of doing business, and [insert another cliche here]. It's just how KS operates. Not everyone can be the super-efficient short-KS-running hero that is Christopher West, but then again most game Kickstarters are bigger than what he does.
Personally I'm just happy that this campaign was filled with stretch goals and not add-ons. Yes, add-ons appeared, but compared to some others there weren't that many of them, and in most cases they made bundles that make things cheaper if you were getting all the items anyway. They also weren't essential add-ons either. Dice bags? More dice? Plastic counters? Plastic doors? An artbook? I don't need any of these things. I added enough for an extra set of dice as I think having another one will be handy (and so I can lose the monster die and not freak out!), but that's enough for me. And look at all the Investigators. Are any of them paid expansions like Zombicide? No. And I find that amazing. Every single Investigator was a free add-on, with the exception of the few bundled into the expansions, and even the expansions got free add-ons.
And if it all gets delayed 6-8 months? 12 months? Then it gets delayed. We'll find other things to do in the meantime.
Gimgamgoo wrote: I wonder how many man hours it would take to knock up a kickstarter that 'looked' just like a cmon kickstarter in every way possible. I bet if it took in 1million plus it would still be one heck of an hourly rate for the people involved.
And all the demo kits they sent out for review?
It's not really fear that it's a scam, it's a fear that like all new KS companies, there is a high chance this company could fail due to incorrect costing or whatever. A lot more people would be reassured if there was y'know actually anyone with experience running this thing and not just having a known manufacturer on standby. Someone asked what level of risk this would be and why, and people responded. Sorry if it wasn't positive enough.
Also, the demo kits didn't include all the stretch goals did they?
How could they. Not all of the components are made. But that wasn't my point. My point was who goes to the effort of making demo games and sending them out as part of a Kickstarter scam?
Anyway, enough'a that.
The last three:
We will probably reach this:
I doubt we will reach this, which is a shame as I would have liked this one quite a bit:
And as with the one above, this one seems unlikely, which is fine ultimately:
If anybody wants an EB, now is a good time, I watched already hald a dozen or so get available (nabbed one, too).
Obviously some people that were sitting on them got cold feet.
Which makes it highly unlikely to unlock the last character, unless Diemension feels generous (seen as almost 1k backers are in for a buck to spend money later).
We'll see ...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wow, already at 1.380k and two and a half hours to go.
27 minutes to go and we're at $1,425k! I doubted we were going to get him, but damn, that's so cool.
I keep missing the opportunity to grab someone's EB... it would be nice to switch that last $10 over to something silly and extra like a dice bag (or maybe pay $8 more in and pick up the KS exclusive epic Devourer of Worlds. He's so cool.).
Anyway, sorry if it frustrated people. I will admit that asking for a rating was my fault.
H.B.M.C. wrote: And all the demo kits they sent out for review?
I finally checked out the reviews on BGG and the only reviews are by Undead Viking and Beasts of War. BoW, as usual, was enthusiastic and more advertising than review.
Undead Viking (and Learn to Play) showed prototypes, with standees, and BoW's miniatures were test samples. So we still don't have an idea of how well DG will be able to fulfill this KS.
