FIrst off a little about me. I served in the Air force as security forces for 6 years, been deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan each once. So I know what it means to me about serving our country. I wish my brother(in law) would understand this. He served 2 weeks in Marine Corps Basic training(he gave up claiming his knee hurt), He got to his 2nd week and after receiving a letter from his fiance to come home, he now claims he is hurt and after 2 months of med hold, comes home. Only to start working as a tower climber. Doesn't seem right to me to fall out because of knee problems, only to go into a job that is physically stressful. and now he considers himself a marine corps Veteran. Marpat pants, semper fi brotherhood shirt, Marine corps bracelet, belt buckle, 8 point marpat cover. Devil Dogs stickers on vehicle. Everyday he wears at least 2 of the above items it seems. He wears his dog tags as "proof of service" and people eat it up, and give him discounts with no ID, just see the tags and assume. When people ask him about where he was stationed at during small talk, he says He was stationed in San Diego(Marines Boot camp training site) and doesn't say more. It irritates me because I feel that he is only telling half of the story. I have talked about it to him, yelled about it to him, explained in public when he tries to do it. Nothing works. He thinks he is better than me since I was "only Air Force". Being a marine trumps my service apparently, and brings it up every so often.
So my questions are
1) Should I care that he is posing
2) From a Marines standpoint, Is he a marine
3) What to do about it.
4) Am I being overly salty and blowing the situation out of proportion?
This is what I thought. Just wanted to hear others thoughts on the matter and whether I am being too salty on the matter. Not being a marine myself I wouldn't understand the brotherhood, according to him. I am hoping that he runs into a real marine and gets called out on it.
He didn't make it out of basic, he doesn't get any special considerations. He never wore that Eagle, Globe, and Anchor, so he has no right to call himself a Marine.
Dude's an asshat. Nothing you can do about it. Best to just ignore it, or at the most, just point out to people that he's lying, if he's trying to use it for material gain.
The fact he has a dd214 gives him the feeling I think. He is an Ass-hat and the fact he is my brother-in-law pisses me off since I gotta play nice at the wife and mom-in-laws request.
My wife has a DD-214. She went to Army basic twice. Didn't make it through either time. Has a total of 8 months Active Duty service. She never claims to have been a Soldier though.
Like I said though, if this dude is this hard up on it, nothing you can do is ever going to change his mind on it. All that is really likely to do it is a group of real Marines kicking his ass over it.
conker249 wrote: This is what I thought. Just wanted to hear others thoughts on the matter and whether I am being too salty on the matter. Not being a marine myself I wouldn't understand the brotherhood, according to him. I am hoping that he runs into a real marine and gets called out on it.
You not being a Marine doesn't mean you know nothing about brotherhood.... as djones pointed out... he hasn't earned the globe and anchor.
Specifically, as I have a number of friends who were marines I will say that they've told me: he didn't pass the Crucible, didn't earn his dress blues, didn't earn that golden globe/anchor on the collar.... He isn't a marine. He's just a soft, washed out scrub.
Umm if you do not graduate the boot camp and earn the symbols and such then your just a civilian who failed basic training.
Its like taking a class but not taking the exam. You are not tgat, you never passed and took the final exam.
Thus you never earned the title or qualification.
You a a college drop out... Not a graduate .... Basicaly.
Dreadwinter wrote: As a non-military person, I was under the impression that you had to complete basic training to get in to the armed forces.
Kinda like how you have to pass the bar(is that right?) to become a lawyer or pass a test in order to become an LPN or RN.
Just because you take the class(and fail out) doesn't mean you get the title.
You do. In the Air Force I was a trainee until they gave me my Airmens coin at graduation. In the marines you earn the Eagle, Globe, and Anchor much in the same way, just more bad ass. The Army gives out candy I think.
Reason I bring it up is because on Veterans day it bugs the hell out of me, and that is coming up so it is fresh on my mind. I wish I had local actual Marines to talk to him, in their own way.
Consensus shows just to ignore, bite my tongue, and move on. It is hard for me to because most of my family has served and this holiday means a lot to me. Having someone fake it, is just wrong.
I get what you guys are saying about making it through bootcamp. On the other hand though, he did swear his oath and was on active duty while in boot camp.
It's really just a matter of opinion if he's a marine or not.
sirlynchmob wrote: I get what you guys are saying about making it through bootcamp. On the other hand though, he did swear his oath and was on active duty while in boot camp.
It's really just a matter of opinion if he's a marine or not.
It really isn't. As someone stated earlier, if someone doesn't pass the Bar, they don't get to be called a lawyer. This is the same thing. I didn't earn the right to call myself an Airman until I passed Warrior Week in basic training, and received the Airman's coin. Until that point I was simply "Trainee Jones". After that day, I was "Airman Jones".
sirlynchmob wrote: I get what you guys are saying about making it through bootcamp. On the other hand though, he did swear his oath and was on active duty while in boot camp.
It's really just a matter of opinion if he's a marine or not.
It really isn't.... as others have mentioned.
On another note, IIRC, if a person fails out of their basic training, they still get a DD 214, but the block that indicates service should reflect that, ergo, no Veteran's benefits or anything.
sirlynchmob wrote: I get what you guys are saying about making it through bootcamp. On the other hand though, he did swear his oath and was on active duty while in boot camp.
It's really just a matter of opinion if he's a marine or not.
It really isn't.... as others have mentioned.
On another note, IIRC, if a person fails out of their basic training, they still get a DD 214, but the block that indicates service should reflect that, ergo, no Veteran's benefits or anything.
Bingo, my wife gets no benefits. This guy gets no benefits. If he was separated on a service related injury (his knee), and was a true Marine, he'd have benefits for it.
sirlynchmob wrote: I get what you guys are saying about making it through bootcamp. On the other hand though, he did swear his oath and was on active duty while in boot camp.
It's really just a matter of opinion if he's a marine or not.
It really isn't. As someone stated earlier, if someone doesn't pass the Bar, they don't get to be called a lawyer. This is the same thing. I didn't earn the right to call myself an Airman until I passed Warrior Week in basic training, and received the Airman's coin. Until that point I was simply "Trainee Jones". After that day, I was "Airman Jones".
LOL airmen, they really are their own little world. I can imagine warrior week, ok trainee's go ride your bikes.
Hell I never got the Sailors coin, so I guess after doing my 20 years I'm not a sailor. Once I stepped into boot camp I was recruit lynch, the day I left I was still recruit lynch.
There is no defined point in which you become a marine, other than swearing the oath.
I guess it comes down to: Do you care about your brother more than you care about being right?
People do stupid, stupid things. People we care about do them too. This one hits close to a nerve for you, but in the bigger picture, which bothers you more? Being correct, or letting him be an idiot, but an idiot in your life?
sirlynchmob wrote: I get what you guys are saying about making it through bootcamp. On the other hand though, he did swear his oath and was on active duty while in boot camp.
It's really just a matter of opinion if he's a marine or not.
It really isn't.... as others have mentioned.
On another note, IIRC, if a person fails out of their basic training, they still get a DD 214, but the block that indicates service should reflect that, ergo, no Veteran's benefits or anything.
Bingo, my wife gets no benefits. This guy gets no benefits. If he was separated on a service related injury (his knee), and was a true Marine, he'd have benefits for it.
And, as has been pointed out, if you don't graduate the course you don't get the title to which graduation entitles you. Failing Ranger School does not get you a tab. Failing Airborne school does not get you wings. Failing basic training does not make you a Marine/Soldier/Airman/Sailor. It makes you someone who tried and failed. Period.
sirlynchmob wrote: I get what you guys are saying about making it through bootcamp. On the other hand though, he did swear his oath and was on active duty while in boot camp.
It's really just a matter of opinion if he's a marine or not.
It really isn't.... as others have mentioned.
On another note, IIRC, if a person fails out of their basic training, they still get a DD 214, but the block that indicates service should reflect that, ergo, no Veteran's benefits or anything.
Bingo, my wife gets no benefits. This guy gets no benefits. If he was separated on a service related injury (his knee), and was a true Marine, he'd have benefits for it.
And, as has been pointed out, if you don't graduate the course you don't get the title to which graduation entitles you. Failing Ranger School does not get you a tab. Failing Airborne school does not get you wings. Failing basic training does not make you a Marine/Soldier/Airman/Sailor. It makes you someone who tried and failed. Period.
except boot camp is a different thing all together. But this is the military we're talking about, someone here must be in the marines, can you quote the regulations on when you become a marine. It's probably next to a code red.
sirlynchmob wrote: I get what you guys are saying about making it through bootcamp. On the other hand though, he did swear his oath and was on active duty while in boot camp.
It's really just a matter of opinion if he's a marine or not.
It really isn't. As someone stated earlier, if someone doesn't pass the Bar, they don't get to be called a lawyer. This is the same thing. I didn't earn the right to call myself an Airman until I passed Warrior Week in basic training, and received the Airman's coin. Until that point I was simply "Trainee Jones". After that day, I was "Airman Jones".
LOL airmen, they really are their own little world. I can imagine warrior week, ok trainee's go ride your bikes.
Hell I never got the Sailors coin, so I guess after doing my 20 years I'm not a sailor. Once I stepped into boot camp I was recruit lynch, the day I left I was still recruit lynch.
There is no defined point in which you become a marine, other than swearing the oath.
Oh cute. The squid's got jokes. Go ask a Marine at which point they become a Marine. It's the day they get to wear that insignia of theirs. Just like the ritual we go through to get to the point to be called Airmen. Soldier's get to call themselves Soldier's after completing Basic. And given the 18 year vet of the Navy that's I'm real good friends with, you started calling yourself Sailor after completing Battle Station's, so maybe you should cut the crap.
sirlynchmob wrote: I get what you guys are saying about making it through bootcamp. On the other hand though, he did swear his oath and was on active duty while in boot camp.
It's really just a matter of opinion if he's a marine or not.
It really isn't. As someone stated earlier, if someone doesn't pass the Bar, they don't get to be called a lawyer. This is the same thing. I didn't earn the right to call myself an Airman until I passed Warrior Week in basic training, and received the Airman's coin. Until that point I was simply "Trainee Jones". After that day, I was "Airman Jones".
LOL airmen, they really are their own little world. I can imagine warrior week, ok trainee's go ride your bikes.
Hell I never got the Sailors coin, so I guess after doing my 20 years I'm not a sailor. Once I stepped into boot camp I was recruit lynch, the day I left I was still recruit lynch.
There is no defined point in which you become a marine, other than swearing the oath.
Bull gak.
At the end of The Crucible, recruits march to the Emblem Ceremony where Drill Instructors present their platoons with the Marine Corps Emblem—the Eagle, Globe and Anchor—and address recruits as "Marine" for the first time.
Receiving the emblem signifies that the recruits have earned a place in the Marine Corps, and what's earned is theirs forever. They will now stand side by side with their instructors at graduation as part of the Few.
That ceremony, conducted AFTER The Crucible, is a clear point at which the recruit becomes a Marine. Any argument against that is silly. Failing the course but having enlisted does not make you a Marine.
sirlynchmob wrote: I get what you guys are saying about making it through bootcamp. On the other hand though, he did swear his oath and was on active duty while in boot camp.
It's really just a matter of opinion if he's a marine or not.
It really isn't. As someone stated earlier, if someone doesn't pass the Bar, they don't get to be called a lawyer. This is the same thing. I didn't earn the right to call myself an Airman until I passed Warrior Week in basic training, and received the Airman's coin. Until that point I was simply "Trainee Jones". After that day, I was "Airman Jones".
LOL airmen, they really are their own little world. I can imagine warrior week, ok trainee's go ride your bikes.
Hell I never got the Sailors coin, so I guess after doing my 20 years I'm not a sailor. Once I stepped into boot camp I was recruit lynch, the day I left I was still recruit lynch.
There is no defined point in which you become a marine, other than swearing the oath.
Oh cute. The squid's got jokes. Go ask a Marine at which point they become a Marine. It's the day they get to wear that insignia of theirs. Just like the ritual we go through to get to the point to be called Airmen. Soldier's get to call themselves Soldier's after completing Basic. And given the 18 year vet of the Navy that's I'm real good friends with, you started calling yourself Sailor after completing Battle Station's, so maybe you should cut the crap.
That's just their opinion, there is no defined point, unless someone can quote a regulation. I also never did battle stations, he probably went to boot camp in great lakes, I was chilling in orlando different places, different rituals, different opinions.
Automatically Appended Next Post: what I do recall is getting an ID card that identified me as a sailor very early in boot camp
d-usa wrote: Are people E-1s when they show up to basic?
We take care of plenty of people at the VA who never made it through basic, some with no real service connected injuries.
Curious - how does that work exactly? If you sign up for the military, and wash out of basic, how much right do you have to treatment from the VA? At what point does it start, how much time in or what have you do you need?
djones520 wrote: Your ID card said US Navy. It said Seaman Recruit, and E1, because that was your rank. It never said Sailor.
that's the point though, fun fact, marines also say deptartment of the navy
once you are in boot camp on day 1, you're a sailor/marine/airman/grunt. once you're in, you're in the club. I know every service loves their rituals and traditions that have been around so long, people accept them as facts. I actually feel bad for everyone still in the navy as they've just lost their rates. Now that was something to be proud of. when you get to call yourself a marine is just silly.
At what point you call yourself a marine is a matter of opinion, but what we do know, is the day you get to boot camp and swear in, you're in the club. Weather it be for just 10 mins or if you actually finish boot camp. If you were on active duty, you qualify.
djones520 wrote: Your ID card said US Navy. It said Seaman Recruit, and E1, because that was your rank. It never said Sailor.
that's the point though, fun fact, marines also say deptartment of the navy
once you are in boot camp on day 1, you're a sailor/marine/airman/grunt. once you're in, you're in the club. I know every service loves their rituals and traditions that have been around so long, people accept them as facts. I actually feel bad for everyone still in the navy as they've just lost their rates. Now that was something to be proud of. when you get to call yourself a marine is just silly.
At what point you call yourself a marine is a matter of opinion, but what we do know, is the day you get to boot camp and swear in, you're in the club. Weather it be for just 10 mins or if you actually finish boot camp. If you were on active duty, you qualify.
It isn't a 'matter of opinion' at all. You make it to the ceremony, or you are not entitled to call yourself marine.
It's not a matter of opinion. You don't earn the title of Marine until you receive your Eagle, Globe, and Anchor. Prior to that, you're either a Recruit or a Candidate (or a Midshipman, for Naval Academy students).
He can say he was a recruit in the Marine Corps or a Marine Corps recruit. He can't truthfully say he is or was a Marine.
It might be different in other branches, but you don't earn the title Marine just for showing up on day one.
The Crucible
The final challenge recruits face is a grueling, 54-hour exercise known as the Crucible. The recruits must apply everything they have developed throughout recruit training, including physical strength and endurance, mental fortitude and moral character. The recruits must work together to overcome the many challenges of the Crucible. The last portion of the test is a 9-mile hike from the training area to the Iwo Jima flag raising statue at Peatross Parade Deck, where those who have completed the challenge are awarded the Eagle, Globe and Anchorand officially claim the title of U.S. Marine.
djones520 wrote: Your ID card said US Navy. It said Seaman Recruit, and E1, because that was your rank. It never said Sailor.
that's the point though, fun fact, marines also say deptartment of the navy
once you are in boot camp on day 1, you're a sailor/marine/airman/grunt. once you're in, you're in the club. I know every service loves their rituals and traditions that have been around so long, people accept them as facts. I actually feel bad for everyone still in the navy as they've just lost their rates. Now that was something to be proud of. when you get to call yourself a marine is just silly.
At what point you call yourself a marine is a matter of opinion, but what we do know, is the day you get to boot camp and swear in, you're in the club. Weather it be for just 10 mins or if you actually finish boot camp. If you were on active duty, you qualify.
It isn't a 'matter of opinion' at all. You make it to the ceremony, or you are not entitled to call yourself marine.
Notice they are to address the letter to Recruit XXXXX. Not Marine or Private. There is a reason for this, even if you refuse to acknowledge it.
of course theirs a reason, they joined the navy, hense their recruits
also thinking back, I was entitled to wear my ETSA insignia while in school to become an ET. I joined to be an ET, so I was considered one the day I joined and my letters were addressed ETSR. Like I said, different opinions. In the navy no one gave a gak about being called a sailor, it was all about the rates.
It's a matter of your opinion, seemingly, but everyone else I've spoken to on the matter, it seems to be a fact that a 2nd week recruit was not called a Marine, and never earned the right to call themselves Marine.
I was not an Airman until I completed Warrior week (or whatever the equivalent is now, our basic has undergone massive changes since I enlisted), my many Army friends confirm that you are not a Soldier until you graduate Basic Trianing, and my Sailor friends also confirm the same for what I stated earlier.
We have multiple Veterans in here backing this up. You're the only one whose served who say's otherwise. So...
d-usa wrote: Are people E-1s when they show up to basic?
We take care of plenty of people at the VA who never made it through basic, some with no real service connected injuries.
Curious - how does that work exactly? If you sign up for the military, and wash out of basic, how much right do you have to treatment from the VA? At what point does it start, how much time in or what have you do you need?
I have nothing to do with eligibility, so I have no idea.
I always thought it was rather hard to just decide "I don't want to be a soldier/marine/whatever" anymore during boot camp, and that you had to have a legitimate reason to be let go from your service. Unless this guy has a bad discharge, he must have been able to produce a legitimate reason to separate.
djones520 wrote: Your ID card said US Navy. It said Seaman Recruit, and E1, because that was your rank. It never said Sailor.
that's the point though, fun fact, marines also say deptartment of the navy
once you are in boot camp on day 1, you're a sailor/marine/airman/grunt. once you're in, you're in the club. I know every service loves their rituals and traditions that have been around so long, people accept them as facts. I actually feel bad for everyone still in the navy as they've just lost their rates. Now that was something to be proud of. when you get to call yourself a marine is just silly.
At what point you call yourself a marine is a matter of opinion, but what we do know, is the day you get to boot camp and swear in, you're in the club. Weather it be for just 10 mins or if you actually finish boot camp. If you were on active duty, you qualify.
So, if I make it two weeks in to nursing school and drop out, I can go around telling people I am a nurse?
I mean, the pinning ceremony at the end of it is irrelevant, according to you.
djones520 wrote: Your ID card said US Navy. It said Seaman Recruit, and E1, because that was your rank. It never said Sailor.
that's the point though, fun fact, marines also say deptartment of the navy
once you are in boot camp on day 1, you're a sailor/marine/airman/grunt. once you're in, you're in the club. I know every service loves their rituals and traditions that have been around so long, people accept them as facts. I actually feel bad for everyone still in the navy as they've just lost their rates. Now that was something to be proud of. when you get to call yourself a marine is just silly.
At what point you call yourself a marine is a matter of opinion, but what we do know, is the day you get to boot camp and swear in, you're in the club. Weather it be for just 10 mins or if you actually finish boot camp. If you were on active duty, you qualify.
So, if I make it two weeks in to nursing school and drop out, I can go around telling people I am a nurse?
I mean, the pinning ceremony at the end of it is irrelevant, according to you.
I didn't swear my fancy nursing oath the first day, and I certainly didn't receive RN pay starting my first day in nursing school.
djones520 wrote: Your ID card said US Navy. It said Seaman Recruit, and E1, because that was your rank. It never said Sailor.
that's the point though, fun fact, marines also say deptartment of the navy
once you are in boot camp on day 1, you're a sailor/marine/airman/grunt. once you're in, you're in the club. I know every service loves their rituals and traditions that have been around so long, people accept them as facts. I actually feel bad for everyone still in the navy as they've just lost their rates. Now that was something to be proud of. when you get to call yourself a marine is just silly.
At what point you call yourself a marine is a matter of opinion, but what we do know, is the day you get to boot camp and swear in, you're in the club. Weather it be for just 10 mins or if you actually finish boot camp. If you were on active duty, you qualify.
So, if I make it two weeks in to nursing school and drop out, I can go around telling people I am a nurse?
I mean, the pinning ceremony at the end of it is irrelevant, according to you.
I didn't swear my fancy nursing oath the first day, and I certainly didn't receive RN pay starting my first day in nursing school.
They wont let you handle the fun drugs until the end either :(
Quick search just says that people who separated honorably can wear the uniforms of the rank they held, which should be E1 if he indeed separated honorably.
d-usa wrote: Quick search just says that people who separated honorably can wear the uniforms of the rank they held, which should be E1 if he indeed separated honorably.
People who seperate in Basic are highly unlikely to do so Honorably. Per my wife, who was discharged due to medical reasons, her discharge was "uncharacterized". There is also a General Discharge, Entry Level Discharge (which has to occur withing 180 days of entering service), etc...
I don't know of a single instance where someone who was discharged in Basic who got an Honorable.
d-usa wrote: Quick search just says that people who separated honorably can wear the uniforms of the rank they held, which should be E1 if he indeed separated honorably.
People who seperate in Basic are highly unlikely to do so Honorably. Per my wife, who was discharged due to medical reasons, her discharge was "uncharacterized". There is also a General Discharge, Entry Level Discharge (which has to occur withing 180 days of entering service), etc...
I don't know of a single instance where someone who was discharged in Basic who got an Honorable.
It would probably be limited to legitimate medical discharges I would imagine.
d-usa wrote: Quick search just says that people who separated honorably can wear the uniforms of the rank they held, which should be E1 if he indeed separated honorably.
People who seperate in Basic are highly unlikely to do so Honorably. Per my wife, who was discharged due to medical reasons, her discharge was "uncharacterized". There is also a General Discharge, Entry Level Discharge (which has to occur withing 180 days of entering service), etc...
I don't know of a single instance where someone who was discharged in Basic who got an Honorable.
It would probably be limited to legitimate medical discharges I would imagine.
An honorable discharge would require a record of positive service. There is no such record for Basic Training recruits. The vast majority who don't hack it get ELD's. No harm, no foul. You tried, didn't make the initial cut, thank's for trying.
( C ) Training. Recruit Training is comprised of 70 training days. Phase one focuses on building discipline, physical fitness, drill, water survival, and mastery of Marine common skills. Phase two of training covers Table 1 marksmanship qualification and small unit leadership. Phase three of training includes Table 2 marksmanship qualification, field training, and the Crucible. The Crucible emphasizes team work and endurance around Core
Values, Warrior Stations, Leadership Reaction Course (an evaluated event focusing on core values), and movement course, as well as other mentally and physically challenging events. A final foot march will conclude with the Emblem ceremony that defines a recruit's transition to a Marine. This ceremony is followed by a 'Warrior's" meal.
( C ) Training. Recruit Training is comprised of 70 training days. Phase one focuses on building discipline, physical fitness, drill, water survival, and mastery of Marine common skills. Phase two of training covers Table 1 marksmanship qualification and small unit leadership. Phase three of training includes Table 2 marksmanship qualification, field training, and the Crucible. The Crucible emphasizes team work and endurance around Core
Values, Warrior Stations, Leadership Reaction Course (an evaluated event focusing on core values), and movement course, as well as other mentally and physically challenging events. A final foot march will conclude with the Emblem ceremony that defines a recruit's transition to a Marine. This ceremony is followed by a 'Warrior's" meal.
Here you go OP. Just call him Recruit from here on out. Because that is all he is. He'll never know the feeling of leaving the Depot knowing he has accomplished something few people have.
It took jake 3 tries to find it. LOL quoting a web site as official, you might as well quote yahoo answers. The reg should have been the first thing he posted.
Glad it isn't just me feeling too uppity about it. It strikes a nerve when he parades around in the marine corps everything. I know Marines are very protective of their title that they earned(and deserve), and say what you want of the air force, I earned my right to be called an Airmen, regardless of whether you think it is cake or not.
I took him to the VA when he got back, in 2013(his full service was December 2012 getting on the plane, to February 2013 getting off the plane to come home) before he wore any of the marine corps anything, to get signed up since he swears his DI's told him that the medical part doesn't matter while he was in boot, and that the VA will sort it out. The guy read his papers, and told him to get out of his office. I was laughing on the inside. After that is when he really started wearing the Marine stuff. getting custom made leather bracelets and belt to top off even more stuff he wears.
Former Marine. Did five years. You aren't considered a Marine unless you made it through boot camp. If you didn't make it your title is wash out. The rest of the world can make up excuses to call you Marine, but to those that actually made it you will never be a Marine. The guy OP describes is a pathetic wannabe that wants credit for something he couldn't complete. Talk is cheap. The oath means nothing if you didn't make it through boot camp.
I have an uncle a little like this, only my uncle really did serve in the Army. He just never served in combat according to my family + extended family, he was in some sort of non-combat rear echelon support role which is itself worthy of respect, because you're still serving your country and giving up years of your life.
And yet... he likes to give the impression that he did serve in combat, but even my Grandmother who used to think the sun shines out of his arse, knows thats bs. He never got anywhere near a frontline. He talks and posts on Facebook (lots of motivational posters etc), about lots of British Army operations like the Falklands (when he was a child) or the first Gulf War, and then when questioned says "I don't like to talk about it".
He even likes to wear my late Grandfather's medals and doesn't bother to correct people when they assume he earned them. Or at least, he used to wear them...My Dad and my 2nd Uncle managed to retrieve the medals and return them to my Grandmother. They were worried he might sell them. The funny thing is, my Grandfather served in the Suez Crisis...before my Uncle was born...in the Royal Navy, not the army.
d-usa wrote: Do marines start their active duty the day they show up to boot camp, or are they different than other services?
They're the same, once in boot camp you are on active duty.
Just to clarify this note... AT least in the army (and at least when I went through it) until you are MOSQ you are in a "trainee" status. Yes, you are active duty, which counts towards GI Bill time, active service and IRR requirements, etc.
But this is not the same thing as earning a military title.... In the case of the OP, that title is Marine.
Don't care about what he is doing and saying if it's just posing. But if he "I am superior than you because i'm MARINE" well... he deserves hard beating
Well, Ironically he is in fact a veteran. If you serve a day in the Military you have officially become a veteran and are entitled to all the things that come with that, for instance if his knee is legitimately hurt he can go to the VA and set up an appointment to get checked out and eventually get to the Claims part and he could possibly earn disability for the rest of his life.
I retired from the USMC a few years ago and I can tell you from my perspective, and I think most if not all of my brother and sisters would agree, your brother in law is NOT a US Marine.
At Boot Camp you are a recruit, you don't even get to use your own name until after the Crucible. Once you finish that last training evolution you stand in a formation with your entire Recruit Company and covered in Blood, Sweat, Rain, Mud and all sort of other things you are handed individually a Eagle Globe and Anchor and are told that you are now a US Marine.
Since your brother in law washed out basically in the 1st week of training (Week 1 is indoc and administrative BS) he is nothing more then a failed recruit. I would suggest you take him to any place frequented by actual Marines on Veterans Day or the following day (November 10th) which is the USMC Birthday and watch as he tries his BS and get put in his place.
As far as you serving in the Air Force as Security forces, thank you for your service. Between you and the "Elite" Pararescue you provided hours of entertainment. Almost as much fun as stealing Army Rifles they kept leaving unguarded
Chute82 wrote: Lol...2 weeks in, did he even get his first set of shots? Did he receive a general discharge or entry level discharge?
At 2 weeks for a medical problem he most likely got an administrative separation, but he was on med hold for 2 months so possibly a med board (fastest one I have ever seen). Who knows though and it wouldn't honestly change the perception that he ISN'T a Marine.
Any chance you have any relatives or friends who are Marines who could set the guy straight? I imagine the local VFW or VA has a few guys who could explain to him how it works. It's cool he's proud of the Marines. Not so cool to be a washout pretending to be something he's not.
Mozzyfuzzy wrote: If he's claiming benefits off this, does it not count as stolen valour, or does that require medals and commendations?
Well, since the Supreme Court has stated that Stolen Valor is not a crime, doesn't really matter.
Could there still be general fraud charges at the local level if someone gets benefits via deception? If so it would probably be up to McDonalds to decide how much trouble it is worth to get the money back for their discounted coffee.
VA employee here who does deal with eligibility. It would depend on his separation. It would most likely be an entry level separation of uncharacterized, which for VA purposes is considered Honorable (technically, under conditions other than dishonorable). He would, in that case, be considered a veteran, again for VA purposes. If, however, he had a voided enlistment or induction, then an actual determination would need to take place (by the VA) before the service could be considered Honorable or not (again, technically under conditions other than dishonorable).
The VA's definition of a veteran is, "A Veteran is a person who served in the active military, naval, or air service and was discharged or released under conditions other than dishonorable."
conker249 wrote: He served 2 weeks in Marine Corps Basic training(he gave up claiming his knee hurt), He got to his 2nd week and after receiving a letter from his fiance to come home, he now claims he is hurt and after 2 months of med hold, comes home. Only to start working as a tower climber. Doesn't seem right to me to fall out because of knee problems, only to go into a job that is physically stressful.
While that certainly does sound dubious, I'm inclined to give people the benefit of the doubt. There are reams of fairly trivial medical problems which preclude people from being soldiers, things like acne and haemorrhoids (for example). Just because someone is able to do a physical job, doesn't necessarily mean they are fit for service in remote locations, or able to march long distances with heavy equipment.
To put an alternative perspective out there, It's possible that he really had his heart set on being a marine, and through no fault of his own, this injury prevented him. That happens sometimes: I went to school with a guy who had his heart set on joining the Navy, it was all he ever wanted to do. After we left school he applied, but for some reason he wasn't able to pass the medical, and that was that. He never told me exactly what was wrong, and obviously I didn't ask, but whatever it was, it didn't stop him from playing football, and being perfectly healthy (so far as I could see).
I'm not saying that makes him a marine, but just maybe it makes him not a poser. It might be something that's really important to the guy, which was taken away.
conker249 wrote: He served 2 weeks in Marine Corps Basic training(he gave up claiming his knee hurt), He got to his 2nd week and after receiving a letter from his fiance to come home, he now claims he is hurt and after 2 months of med hold, comes home. Only to start working as a tower climber. Doesn't seem right to me to fall out because of knee problems, only to go into a job that is physically stressful.
While that certainly does sound dubious, I'm inclined to give people the benefit of the doubt. There are reams of fairly trivial medical problems which preclude people from being soldiers, things like acne and haemorrhoids (for example). Just because someone is able to do a physical job, doesn't necessarily mean they are fit for service in remote locations, or able to march long distances with heavy equipment.
To put an alternative perspective out there, It's possible that he really had his heart set on being a marine, and through no fault of his own, this injury prevented him. That happens sometimes: I went to school with a guy who had his heart set on joining the Navy, it was all he ever wanted to do. After we left school he applied, but for some reason he wasn't able to pass the medical, and that was that. He never told me exactly what was wrong, and obviously I didn't ask, but whatever it was, it didn't stop him from playing football, and being perfectly healthy (so far as I could see).
I'm not saying that makes him a marine, but just maybe it makes him not a poser. It might be something that's really important to the guy, which was taken away.
If a man has to be obtuse about his service when asked about it, so he doesn't admit that he never made it through basic, then he is a poser.
conker249 wrote: He served 2 weeks in Marine Corps Basic training(he gave up claiming his knee hurt), He got to his 2nd week and after receiving a letter from his fiance to come home, he now claims he is hurt and after 2 months of med hold, comes home. Only to start working as a tower climber. Doesn't seem right to me to fall out because of knee problems, only to go into a job that is physically stressful.
While that certainly does sound dubious, I'm inclined to give people the benefit of the doubt. There are reams of fairly trivial medical problems which preclude people from being soldiers, things like acne and haemorrhoids (for example). Just because someone is able to do a physical job, doesn't necessarily mean they are fit for service in remote locations, or able to march long distances with heavy equipment.
To put an alternative perspective out there, It's possible that he really had his heart set on being a marine, and through no fault of his own, this injury prevented him. That happens sometimes: I went to school with a guy who had his heart set on joining the Navy, it was all he ever wanted to do. After we left school he applied, but for some reason he wasn't able to pass the medical, and that was that. He never told me exactly what was wrong, and obviously I didn't ask, but whatever it was, it didn't stop him from playing football, and being perfectly healthy (so far as I could see).
I'm not saying that makes him a marine, but just maybe it makes him not a poser. It might be something that's really important to the guy, which was taken away.
I would be inclined to agree if he was more upfront about his status. Something like saying, "I was a recruit at one time and didn't finish boot camp so I can't claim the title, but I still really like the Marine Corps and want to show my support." I personally wouldn't find anything wrong with that. Claiming the title when it's not earned is wrong though.
Hordini wrote: I would be inclined to agree if he was more upfront about his status. Something like saying, "I was a recruit at one time and didn't finish boot camp so I can't claim the title, but I still really like the Marine Corps and want to show my support." I personally wouldn't find anything wrong with that. Claiming the title when it's not earned is wrong though.
Hordini wrote: I would be inclined to agree if he was more upfront about his status. Something like saying, "I was a recruit at one time and didn't finish boot camp so I can't claim the title, but I still really like the Marine Corps and want to show my support." I personally wouldn't find anything wrong with that. Claiming the title when it's not earned is wrong though.
conker249 wrote: He served 2 weeks in Marine Corps Basic training(he gave up claiming his knee hurt), He got to his 2nd week and after receiving a letter from his fiance to come home, he now claims he is hurt and after 2 months of med hold, comes home. Only to start working as a tower climber. Doesn't seem right to me to fall out because of knee problems, only to go into a job that is physically stressful.
While that certainly does sound dubious, I'm inclined to give people the benefit of the doubt. There are reams of fairly trivial medical problems which preclude people from being soldiers, things like acne and haemorrhoids (for example). Just because someone is able to do a physical job, doesn't necessarily mean they are fit for service in remote locations, or able to march long distances with heavy equipment.
To put an alternative perspective out there, It's possible that he really had his heart set on being a marine, and through no fault of his own, this injury prevented him. That happens sometimes: I went to school with a guy who had his heart set on joining the Navy, it was all he ever wanted to do. After we left school he applied, but for some reason he wasn't able to pass the medical, and that was that. He never told me exactly what was wrong, and obviously I didn't ask, but whatever it was, it didn't stop him from playing football, and being perfectly healthy (so far as I could see).
I'm not saying that makes him a marine, but just maybe it makes him not a poser. It might be something that's really important to the guy, which was taken away.
If a man has to be obtuse about his service when asked about it, so he doesn't admit that he never made it through basic, then he is a poser.
While I am very hesitant to use the term "malingerer"... it does seem to fit the bill here... IF the OP is being completely honest (and really, we don't have any indications to not believe him) with the situation: leaving a physically destructive job like the military, for a job that is just as physically destructive (climbing cell towers) just screams of malingering.
conker249 wrote: He served 2 weeks in Marine Corps Basic training(he gave up claiming his knee hurt), He got to his 2nd week and after receiving a letter from his fiance to come home, he now claims he is hurt and after 2 months of med hold, comes home. Only to start working as a tower climber. Doesn't seem right to me to fall out because of knee problems, only to go into a job that is physically stressful.
While that certainly does sound dubious, I'm inclined to give people the benefit of the doubt. There are reams of fairly trivial medical problems which preclude people from being soldiers, things like acne and haemorrhoids (for example). Just because someone is able to do a physical job, doesn't necessarily mean they are fit for service in remote locations, or able to march long distances with heavy equipment.
To put an alternative perspective out there, It's possible that he really had his heart set on being a marine, and through no fault of his own, this injury prevented him. That happens sometimes: I went to school with a guy who had his heart set on joining the Navy, it was all he ever wanted to do. After we left school he applied, but for some reason he wasn't able to pass the medical, and that was that. He never told me exactly what was wrong, and obviously I didn't ask, but whatever it was, it didn't stop him from playing football, and being perfectly healthy (so far as I could see).
I'm not saying that makes him a marine, but just maybe it makes him not a poser. It might be something that's really important to the guy, which was taken away.
If a man has to be obtuse about his service when asked about it, so he doesn't admit that he never made it through basic, then he is a poser.
While I am very hesitant to use the term "malingerer"... it does seem to fit the bill here... IF the OP is being completely honest (and really, we don't have any indications to not believe him) with the situation: leaving a physically destructive job like the military, for a job that is just as physically destructive (climbing cell towers) just screams of malingering.
Eh, it's likely he rehabbed. My question though, why didn't he rejoin? If he's so gung ho about it, and he's phsyically capable, then it should have been a no brainer.
Eh, it's likely he rehabbed. My question though, why didn't he rejoin? If he's so gung ho about it, and he's phsyically capable, then it should have been a no brainer.
I suspect it may have something to do with the fiance.... probably a "me or the Corps" type ultimatum (had she known about the spouse benefits she may have changed her tune)
Eh, it's likely he rehabbed. My question though, why didn't he rejoin? If he's so gung ho about it, and he's phsyically capable, then it should have been a no brainer.
I suspect it may have something to do with the fiance.... probably a "me or the Corps" type ultimatum (had she known about the spouse benefits she may have changed her tune)
What are these 'spouse benefits' of which you speak?
Seeing as my wife is still active duty and I am not, I want to know what I am entitled to as a Dependa!
BAH, food allowance, (depending on branch as BAH I think is supposed to primarily cover that,) on base housing, Tricare, stuff like that. Ens is probably better explaining on that front however.
Screw on post housing. We had to have it when we were both stationed in Panama. That was the only time. Hated it. Especially since we both lost BAH, effectively paying double to get quarters that a family with one service member would have gotten with just his/her BAH.
Especially now, with the horses, on post housing don't cut it. I've never seen on post housing with its own 100 yard rifle range like I have on my property either...
The mischievous part of me would suggest taking him to an American Legion Post some time around Veteran's Day and letting him try to hoodwink actual veterans. I'm sure they would be able to set the record straight in short order.
Eh, it's likely he rehabbed. My question though, why didn't he rejoin? If he's so gung ho about it, and he's phsyically capable, then it should have been a no brainer.
I suspect it may have something to do with the fiance.... probably a "me or the Corps" type ultimatum (had she known about the spouse benefits she may have changed her tune)
What are these 'spouse benefits' of which you speak?
Seeing as my wife is still active duty and I am not, I want to know what I am entitled to as a Dependa!
Lol, as I am currently in your boat (soon to be not)... we used to be dual-military as well.
But yeah... for someone with no military experience, the free medical, cheap dental (it isn't free no more), I used to throw in housing... but it's a bit crap everywhere I've been. The PX/BX/ Navy Exchange, etc. and Commissary are decent enough, especially if you like certain regional brands, and don't live in that region (or international stuff).
And I'll echo CptJake... Worst time for the wife and I was when we were in Germany, we both lost BAH to live in cramped, tiny quarters that were definitely not big enough for our needs (what can I say, we both have a propensity for books, which take up space)
Lol, as I am currently in your boat (soon to be not)... we used to be dual-military as well.
But yeah... for someone with no military experience, the free medical, cheap dental (it isn't free no more), I used to throw in housing... but it's a bit crap everywhere I've been. The PX/BX/ Navy Exchange, etc. and Commissary are decent enough, especially if you like certain regional brands, and don't live in that region (or international stuff).
And I'll echo CptJake... Worst time for the wife and I was when we were in Germany, we both lost BAH to live in cramped, tiny quarters that were definitely not big enough for our needs (what can I say, we both have a propensity for books, which take up space)
Damn that must have sucked. Did they force you to live in base housing or did you choose to? I'd never choose to live on base.
I lived in japan while single for 2 years and lived in town in a nice 2bdr apt and was living it up like a king. I had enough BAH&BAS left over to eat out at the local shops every night. When I was married I was living in a 3 bdrm house in japan with it's own drive way. In japan parking is harder to get than a car and you have to prove you have a place to park a car before you can buy one.
So remember kids, Go Navy and skip all that silly nonsense on who is and is not a marine, and live better.
Mozzyfuzzy wrote: If he's claiming benefits off this, does it not count as stolen valour, or does that require medals and commendations?
As said there is no such crime. I know of no law that requires stores, coffee shops etc give soldiers (police, firefighters, security guards etc) discounts so if you for some reason are mistaken for a guy that gets a discount it's the provider's loss for being generous. But I agree that it is sleazy to take advantage of it.
Damn that must have sucked. Did they force you to live in base housing or did you choose to? I'd never choose to live on base.
Indeed it did... And not only because of the space issues I already mentioned. It's fething drama city seemingly at least half of the damn time. We got pretty lucky in that our stairwell was fairly drama free... we were either friends with the neighbors, or the other ones were pretty quiet.
And yeah... shortly before we got in country, the command group for our garrison put out the order that unless there were "special circumstances," no servicemember was to live "on the economy" as he felt there was too much room for soldiers to get shafted. The entire time I was there, there were 2 exemptions granted that I am aware of: one, a dude in my company's wife worked for a 3 letter agency, and said agency provided housing closer to work than the on-base accommodations. The other, a complete gakker-waffle gak-bag soldier (he also happened to come from the same unit I had left... needless to say, we had issues) arrived and "demanded" housing for his 9 huskies.... Yeah, seriously, this tool wanted to bring a literal sled team to the country.
Spetulhu wrote: As said there is no such crime. I know of no law that requires stores, coffee shops etc give soldiers (police, firefighters, security guards etc) discounts so if you for some reason are mistaken for a guy that gets a discount it's the provider's loss for being generous. But I agree that it is sleazy to take advantage of it.
That's not true, what fraud needs is a lie and a material benefit. It doesn't matter whether the other person was required to provide for you or not. If you go around lying to people to say you have cancer and taking donations, you have committed fraud. If you claim you are a marine and take a discount, you have committed fraud.
The sticking point in this case is whether the guy genuinely believes he is a marine or not. Because for it to be fraud he'd have to be deliberately lying, telling people he was a marine when he knew he wasn't really.
4 pages of mostly butt hurt replies amazing! I served 6 years in the Marine Corps infantry and was medically discharged for PTSD. Guess what, I don't care about what OPs Brother in Law did and neither should anyone else. You got the power to change his lame attitude? Time to apply Derek Weida's 3 foot circle rule. It's out of my 3 foot circle IDGAF.
DrNo172000 wrote: 4 pages of mostly butt hurt replies amazing! I served 6 years in the Marine Corps infantry and was medically discharged for PTSD. Guess what, I don't care about what OPs Brother in Law did and neither should anyone else. You got the power to change his lame attitude? Time to apply Derek Weida's 3 foot circle rule. It's out of my 3 foot circle IDGAF.
Well obviously you DGAF, otherwise you wouldn't be posting. So you can get off your high horse and come wallow in the mud with the rest of us.
DrNo172000 wrote: 4 pages of mostly butt hurt replies amazing! I served 6 years in the Marine Corps infantry and was medically discharged for PTSD. Guess what, I don't care about what OPs Brother in Law did and neither should anyone else. You got the power to change his lame attitude? Time to apply Derek Weida's 3 foot circle rule. It's out of my 3 foot circle IDGAF.
Well obviously you DGAF, otherwise you wouldn't be posting. So you can get off your high horse and come wallow in the mud with the rest of us.
I posted to make fun of all the people so worried about some dude wearing moto gear. Veteran butt hurt syndrome is hilarious "OMG bros stolen valor". So many of my fellow vets getting worked up over nothing. The key to the 3-foot rule is not being mad about it. I'm not mad, just laughing.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Reminds me of the time so many people got so upset over the under armor shirt that was basketball players raising a net like the Iwo flag.
DrNo172000 wrote: 4 pages of mostly butt hurt replies amazing! I served 6 years in the Marine Corps infantry and was medically discharged for PTSD. Guess what, I don't care about what OPs Brother in Law did and neither should anyone else. You got the power to change his lame attitude? Time to apply Derek Weida's 3 foot circle rule. It's out of my 3 foot circle IDGAF.
Well obviously you DGAF, otherwise you wouldn't be posting. So you can get off your high horse and come wallow in the mud with the rest of us.
I posted to make fun of all the people so worried about some dude wearing moto gear. Veteran butt hurt syndrome is hilarious "OMG bros stolen valor". So many of my fellow vets getting worked up over nothing. The key to the 3-foot rule is not being mad about it. I'm not mad, just laughing.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Reminds me of the time so many people got so upset over the under armor shirt that was basketball players raising a net like the Iwo flag.
So, do you consider a kid who failed out of boot camp in the first two weeks to be a Marine?
DrNo172000 wrote: 4 pages of mostly butt hurt replies amazing! I served 6 years in the Marine Corps infantry and was medically discharged for PTSD. Guess what, I don't care about what OPs Brother in Law did and neither should anyone else. You got the power to change his lame attitude? Time to apply Derek Weida's 3 foot circle rule. It's out of my 3 foot circle IDGAF.
Well obviously you DGAF, otherwise you wouldn't be posting. So you can get off your high horse and come wallow in the mud with the rest of us.
I posted to make fun of all the people so worried about some dude wearing moto gear. Veteran butt hurt syndrome is hilarious "OMG bros stolen valor". So many of my fellow vets getting worked up over nothing. The key to the 3-foot rule is not being mad about it. I'm not mad, just laughing.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Reminds me of the time so many people got so upset over the under armor shirt that was basketball players raising a net like the Iwo flag.
So, do you consider a kid who failed out of boot camp in the first two weeks to be a Marine?
I don't have an opinion either way tbh. I simply don't care about what he does, it has no immediate effect on my life.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ouze wrote: I definitely want to know more about how this 3 foot rule works, exactly.
(nm, I found the video)
If I can turn just one person onto the 3-Foot rule I have succeeded! On the real I love Derek Weida.
I don't have an opinion either way tbh. I simply don't care about what he does, it has no immediate effect on my life.
So...you went to a thread on a message board (a place literally designed to facilitate conversation about a subject) in order to share the amazing and immensely interesting revelation that you don't care at all about about the subject being discussed.
Best get cracking then mate, I'm sure there's literally thousands of threads on this forum where you could post that little tidbit of information and it would be equally as (ir)relevant.
I don't have an opinion either way tbh. I simply don't care about what he does, it has no immediate effect on my life.
So...you went to a thread on a message board (a place literally designed to facilitate conversation about a subject) in order to share the amazing and immensely interesting revelation that you don't care at all about about the subject being discussed.
Best get cracking then mate, I'm sure there's literally thousands of threads on this forum where you could post that little tidbit of information and it would be equally as (ir)relevant.
Sweet! Are the Mods actually starting to crack down on this sort of posting? Because that would be great. Especially in the N&R section.
Ouze wrote: I definitely want to know more about how this 3 foot rule works, exactly.
I also want to know more. Where does the 3 foot circle emanate from? I'm taller than 3 foot, if I injure an extremity am I allowed to GAF? What if I'm lying down? Also does it have vertical limits? Like if someone drops something on you from a hight, or you jump out of an aircraft, is it okay to start GAF right away? Or if your kid falls down a well that's deeper than 3 foot. What about driving, should I incorporate stopping distance into the 3 foot formula? Do phone calls count as being where the phone is or where the caller is? What about abstract ideas that don't have a physical location?
I can't help feeling distance might be an inadequate indicator of whether things are worth GAF about.
I don't have an opinion either way tbh. I simply don't care about what he does, it has no immediate effect on my life.
So...you went to a thread on a message board (a place literally designed to facilitate conversation about a subject) in order to share the amazing and immensely interesting revelation that you don't care at all about about the subject being discussed.
Best get cracking then mate, I'm sure there's literally thousands of threads on this forum where you could post that little tidbit of information and it would be equally as (ir)relevant.
No, what I'm saying is it doesn't matter if he calls himself a Marine or not. It wouldn't' matter if he attended zero days of recruit training. Just ignore the guy and move on about your day is my advice to the OP. You'll feel much better.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Stormwall wrote: I don't think it's butthurt. I think it is simply a "no he is not and here is why."
Honestly, it is what it is.
Naah man, I'm around fellow vets constantly. They get super worked up about this stuff, and for what? Oh no that guy called himself a Marine! He can call himself the Dali Lama who cares. I knew a guy who got separated at Boot Camp, never made it to the Crucible. Guess what he has his honorable discharge certificate proudly displayed. Good for him. He can call himself whatever he wants.
Ouze wrote: I definitely want to know more about how this 3 foot rule works, exactly.
I also want to know more. Where does the 3 foot circle emanate from? I'm taller than 3 foot, if I injure an extremity am I allowed to GAF? What if I'm lying down? Also does it have vertical limits? Like if someone drops something on you from a hight, or you jump out of an aircraft, is it okay to start GAF right away? Or if your kid falls down a well that's deeper than 3 foot. What about driving, should I incorporate stopping distance into the 3 foot formula? Do phone calls count as being where the phone is or where the caller is? What about abstract ideas that don't have a physical location?
I can't help feeling distance might be an inadequate indicator of whether things are worth GAF about.
It's more a metaphorical circle, as in don't get mad about stuff you can't change. Here's a example we can all understand, GW got rid of fantasy, some guy burned his army. For what? What good does being so angry about that do for you? What good does being even a little angry about it do? Some being mad about something they can't control is just silly.
Yeah, I'm sorry, I was being facetious (or whatever the inverse of facetious is). I do agree with you that getting angry about stuff often doesn't help. I've seen people do things like smash their controller when they lose at a game. It's a really dumb behaviour, because firstly games are supposed to be fun, and secondly, now you've busted your controller and made more problems for yourself. On the other hand, expressing an opinion doesn't necessarily mean people are angry and butthurt, I think most people just hang out here to be sociable.
Smacks wrote: Yeah, I'm sorry, I was being facetious (or whatever the inverse of facetious is). I do agree with you that getting angry about stuff often doesn't help. I've seen people do things like smash their controller when they lose at a game. It's a really dumb behaviour, because firstly games are supposed to be fun, and secondly, now you've busted your controller and made more problems for yourself. On the other hand, expressing an opinion doesn't necessarily mean people are angry and butthurt, I think most people just hang out here to be sociable.
True enough, it's just anecdotally speaking it seems when veterans are involved in what they view as "harming their honor" they get so worked up. Of course 95% of the veterans I know are former Infantry Marines, so perhaps there is a bit more bitterness amongst that particular group. My Question is why does the OP want to know what is and isn't considered a Marine? Does he want to put a stop to his brother in law's behavior? If so why? Really at the end of the day is his brother in law harming anyone? Let him be moto about however many weeks. It confounds me that my fellow vets rage out over these things and get into heated arguments over t-shirts and the like. All that internalized anger ain't helpful or healthy.
P.S. I knew what you were doing, I was just being pedantic .
IF he wont stop after repeatedly talking to him, then leave it alone.
What he does has not bearing on your status as a Veteran or the benefits you receive. Everyone on this board know how I feel about the Stolen Valor witch hunt, but I honestly think it is something people need to no get defensive over. He is your In-law, so you just gotta let it go.
Smacks wrote: Yeah, I'm sorry, I was being facetious (or whatever the inverse of facetious is). I do agree with you that getting angry about stuff often doesn't help. I've seen people do things like smash their controller when they lose at a game. It's a really dumb behaviour, because firstly games are supposed to be fun, and secondly, now you've busted your controller and made more problems for yourself. On the other hand, expressing an opinion doesn't necessarily mean people are angry and butthurt, I think most people just hang out here to be sociable.
True enough, it's just anecdotally speaking it seems when veterans are involved in what they view as "harming their honor" they get so worked up. Of course 95% of the veterans I know are former Infantry Marines, so perhaps there is a bit more bitterness amongst that particular group. My Question is why does the OP want to know what is and isn't considered a Marine? Does he want to put a stop to his brother in law's behavior? If so why? Really at the end of the day is his brother in law harming anyone? Let him be moto about however many weeks. It confounds me that my fellow vets rage out over these things and get into heated arguments over t-shirts and the like. All that internalized anger ain't helpful or healthy.
P.S. I knew what you were doing, I was just being pedantic .
Perhaps one reason would be that he, as a stated Air Force vet has been slighted by other family members because this "marine" attempted to serve in a more military branch?? I mean, you know as well as I do, that we tend to have a bit of banter and dick measuring contests between the branches. There could very well be familial discord or pressure put on him.
I know it's been mentioned in other, similar threads that getting a 10% discount for military service, when you did not actually serve (as in, you don't actually have veteran status according to the military and/or VA) has been, in some legal jurisdictions ruled to be considered fraud. So there is that.
And honestly, I aint mad or angry about this.... There's plenty other things related to being a veteran that is worthy of my anger than this.
Smacks wrote: Yeah, I'm sorry, I was being facetious (or whatever the inverse of facetious is). I do agree with you that getting angry about stuff often doesn't help. I've seen people do things like smash their controller when they lose at a game. It's a really dumb behaviour, because firstly games are supposed to be fun, and secondly, now you've busted your controller and made more problems for yourself. On the other hand, expressing an opinion doesn't necessarily mean people are angry and butthurt, I think most people just hang out here to be sociable.
True enough, it's just anecdotally speaking it seems when veterans are involved in what they view as "harming their honor" they get so worked up. Of course 95% of the veterans I know are former Infantry Marines, so perhaps there is a bit more bitterness amongst that particular group. My Question is why does the OP want to know what is and isn't considered a Marine? Does he want to put a stop to his brother in law's behavior? If so why? Really at the end of the day is his brother in law harming anyone? Let him be moto about however many weeks. It confounds me that my fellow vets rage out over these things and get into heated arguments over t-shirts and the like. All that internalized anger ain't helpful or healthy.
P.S. I knew what you were doing, I was just being pedantic .
Perhaps one reason would be that he, as a stated Air Force vet has been slighted by other family members because this "marine" attempted to serve in a more military branch?? I mean, you know as well as I do, that we tend to have a bit of banter and dick measuring contests between the branches. There could very well be familial discord or pressure put on him.
I know it's been mentioned in other, similar threads that getting a 10% discount for military service, when you did not actually serve (as in, you don't actually have veteran status according to the military and/or VA) has been, in some legal jurisdictions ruled to be considered fraud. So there is that.
And honestly, I aint mad or angry about this.... There's plenty other things related to being a veteran that is worthy of my anger than this.
He is being untruthful through omission.
He is trying to puff himself up where his "you are not a marine" but he had not got past bootcamp somehow trumps your active duty... unlike his inactive duty.
2) From a Marines standpoint, Is he a marine
Not getting past bootcamp I would figure no.
3) What to do about it.
I would say that if he likes the perks so much, how about he does something about earning them?
Failing that, you may have to refer to him as "bootcamp dropout" for a while until he gets the idea.
4) Am I being overly salty and blowing the situation out of proportion?
You participated in active duty, he didn't get his boots wet.
This farce he is doing is disrespecting the people who actually had done the service for their country, he is a leach.
The guy made every effort to NOT be a marine.
Now he lives, breaths and eats "looking like a marine"??
People earn "labels" for a reason.
You get belts for various levels of skill in martial arts.
Mechanical Engineers get an iron ring.
Anything requiring great skill, determination and practice has their symbols to identify those people.
Your brother-in-law is wearing those symbols and have not earned them.
He devalues other's achievements by falsely laying claim to them.
I am rather angry with him.
I have a deep respect for those able to put themselves in harm's way.
I play many a game of toy soldiers but make no illusions that I am some general or am some participant in military practice.
I think you should point him out to a "real" marine if the guy has the gall to show up to the cenotaph in uniform on Remembrance Day.
Something I take away from thinking about DrNo172000's posts is, if you are angry about X then own that it is YOU who are angry about X rather than trying to justify it by saying you are angry on someone else's behalf (e.g., all veterans or something). For me, it is easier to put into perspective what I am angry about once I look at it rationally as my problem, only to realize that sometimes I am actually angry about something that is not "my problem" in any real sense, or maybe to see what the real problem could be. I think Ensis Ferrae kind of brought this up, but perhaps the military aspect of this is just a surface layer to a dysfunctional personal relationship. So rather than being about people at large, this is really about two specific people who don't get along.
Manchu wrote: Something I take away from thinking about DrNo172000's posts is, if you are angry about X then own that it is YOU who are angry about X rather than trying to justify it by saying you are angry on someone else's behalf (e.g., all veterans or something). For me, it is easier to put into perspective what I am angry about once I look at it rationally as my problem, only to realize that sometimes I am actually angry about something that is not "my problem" in any real sense, or maybe to see what the real problem could be. I think Ensis Ferrae kind of brought this up, but perhaps the military aspect of this is just a surface layer to a dysfunctional personal relationship. So rather than being about people at large, this is really about two specific people who don't get along.
The phrase "You can pick your friends and you can pick your nose, but you can't pick your family", also extends to "You can't pick your wife's family." Her brother is an insecure d-bag and there is nothing at all you can do about it.
My advice is to let it go. You know he is a poser, and you get to plow his sister. You win.
Manchu wrote: Something I take away from thinking about DrNo172000's posts is, if you are angry about X then own that it is YOU who are angry about X rather than trying to justify it by saying you are angry on someone else's behalf (e.g., all veterans or something). For me, it is easier to put into perspective what I am angry about once I look at it rationally as my problem, only to realize that sometimes I am actually angry about something that is not "my problem" in any real sense, or maybe to see what the real problem could be. I think Ensis Ferrae kind of brought this up, but perhaps the military aspect of this is just a surface layer to a dysfunctional personal relationship. So rather than being about people at large, this is really about two specific people who don't get along.
The phrase "You can pick your friends and you can pick your nose, but you can't pick your family", also extends to "You can't pick your wife's family." Her brother is an insecure d-bag and there is nothing at all you can do about it.
My advice is to let it go. You know he is a poser, and you get to plow his sister. You win.
Manchu wrote: perhaps the military aspect of this is just a surface layer to a dysfunctional personal relationship. So rather than being about people at large, this is really about two specific people who don't get along.
You may be right that it may be a personal issue between two people so some anger may be there in the background.
To seek some "perspective" when feeling overly sensitive to this person possibly being a "poser" of a marine may be a legitimate question in their mind.
I have my own personal experiences with people who feel entitled to things they did not earn so can get all fired up on the topic so we each can find our own axe to grind in the topic.
The USA is about to elect a new president.
"President" is a fine name with great meaning.
Many people right now are wrestling with their thoughts of which candidate is to be president, no matter how inappropriate either may appear for the title.
Our symbols and ideals are precious to us.
It is painful to watch when an individual wraps themselves in the trappings of an ideal but fail to live by even one fundamental behavior associated with it.
Good luck OP, you may have to talk to the guy and have a heart to heart.
He may think pretending to be a marine is all he has for self-worth.
conker249 wrote: FIrst off a little about me. I served in the Air force as security forces for 6 years, been deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan each once. So I know what it means to me about serving our country. I wish my brother(in law) would understand this. He served 2 weeks in Marine Corps Basic training(he gave up claiming his knee hurt), He got to his 2nd week and after receiving a letter from his fiance to come home, he now claims he is hurt and after 2 months of med hold, comes home. Only to start working as a tower climber. Doesn't seem right to me to fall out because of knee problems, only to go into a job that is physically stressful. and now he considers himself a marine corps Veteran. Marpat pants, semper fi brotherhood shirt, Marine corps bracelet, belt buckle, 8 point marpat cover. Devil Dogs stickers on vehicle. Everyday he wears at least 2 of the above items it seems. He wears his dog tags as "proof of service" and people eat it up, and give him discounts with no ID, just see the tags and assume. When people ask him about where he was stationed at during small talk, he says He was stationed in San Diego(Marines Boot camp training site) and doesn't say more. It irritates me because I feel that he is only telling half of the story. I have talked about it to him, yelled about it to him, explained in public when he tries to do it. Nothing works. He thinks he is better than me since I was "only Air Force". Being a marine trumps my service apparently, and brings it up every so often.
So my questions are
1) Should I care that he is posing
2) From a Marines standpoint, Is he a marine
3) What to do about it.
4) Am I being overly salty and blowing the situation out of proportion?
I'm late to the party, but I have a very similar story.
My brother's dream was always to join the marines, even when he was a little kid.
Eventually, he got into basic for the marines, and he made it through about 2 months, but came down with some kind of major intestinal issue that caused him to be unable to continue, and he had to quit due to from what I understand to be a very significant medical issue.
Long story short, he never got back into basic. They said they'd give him another shot once he got better, but it never materialized for him. It was a great tragedy for him.
And he doesn't ham it up near as much as your BIL seems to, I don't think he gets any material gain, doesn't claim military veteran discounts at the movies or anything, but he definitely considers himself an ex-marine, and his friends have mentioned to me that, for example, he's a good shot 'because he was in the marines". (He is a good shot, btw).
Plus, he will sometimes introduce him as being former military / marine.
And........I don't think that's accurate. Being a marine was a big deal for him, and I am truly sad that he wasn't able to make it through basic, I'm sure not for lack of trying, but I still don't feel super-awesome about him claiming to be a former marine because I don't think he was, technically. But I guess I don't feel that it's a big enough deal to call him out on it.
Let me be clear about one thing as a prior service Marine since it has been alluded to as it always is alluded to in these conversations. Someone posing does not devalue my achievements or any other achievements by any veteran. That way of thinking has no basis in logic. Nobody can take away my achievements whether they be my GPA in school or my time in service by pretending they also achieved those same things, that's just insane. As far as honor goes, if it all it takes to mar your honor is an insult, or a image, or some guy posing as something he's not, well how strong is that honor really?
Manchu wrote: Something I take away from thinking about DrNo172000's posts is, if you are angry about X then own that it is YOU who are angry about X rather than trying to justify it by saying you are angry on someone else's behalf (e.g., all veterans or something). For me, it is easier to put into perspective what I am angry about once I look at it rationally as my problem, only to realize that sometimes I am actually angry about something that is not "my problem" in any real sense, or maybe to see what the real problem could be. I think Ensis Ferrae kind of brought this up, but perhaps the military aspect of this is just a surface layer to a dysfunctional personal relationship. So rather than being about people at large, this is really about two specific people who don't get along.
The phrase "You can pick your friends and you can pick your nose, but you can't pick your family", also extends to "You can't pick your wife's family." Her brother is an insecure d-bag and there is nothing at all you can do about it.
My advice is to let it go. You know he is a poser, and you get to plow his sister. You win.
As an aside, I am surprised the man who didn't make it to the crucible even got a Honorable Discharge certificate by the way.
I think that while there are a lot of things that aren't "honorable discharges", for benefit purposes it somewhat gets inverted to having to have a "not dishonorable" discharge vs a straight "honorable" discharge.
As an aside, I am surprised the man who didn't make it to the crucible even got a Honorable Discharge certificate by the way.
I think that while there are a lot of things that aren't "honorable discharges", for benefit purposes it somewhat gets inverted to having to have a "not dishonorable" discharge vs a straight "honorable" discharge.
Well, I was dropped on the day of stepping off for the Crucible for clarity's sake. My DD214 reads Honorable as the character of service. Same as my battle who had a stroke and was put in PEB and he also received an honorable discharge as well. We didn't get certificates, we had our surgeries and months of PT before being discharged and put in touch with the VA, even though my battle was full on PDRL and I was given severance pay.
I am fully aware of the classes of discharge. I was just making an offhanded comment as I was curious. Does that make sense now? (:
As an aside, I am surprised the man who didn't make it to the crucible even got a Honorable Discharge certificate by the way.
I think that while there are a lot of things that aren't "honorable discharges", for benefit purposes it somewhat gets inverted to having to have a "not dishonorable" discharge vs a straight "honorable" discharge.
I think he meant something along the lines of he was surprised it wasn't considered an administrative separation under other then honorable. Usually that type of discharge would be that type. I had a few fail out of Boot Camp who got that type of Discharge. Hell i knew a guy who hit the fleet who got an adsep because he couldn't hack it.
As an aside, I am surprised the man who didn't make it to the crucible even got a Honorable Discharge certificate by the way.
I think that while there are a lot of things that aren't "honorable discharges", for benefit purposes it somewhat gets inverted to having to have a "not dishonorable" discharge vs a straight "honorable" discharge.
I think he meant something along the lines of he was surprised it wasn't considered an administrative separation under other then honorable. Usually that type of discharge would be that type. I had a few fail out of Boot Camp who got that type of Discharge. Hell i knew a guy who hit the fleet who got an adsep because he couldn't hack it.
Other than honorable usually requires some kind of misconduct or significant deviation from meeting standards. Entry-level separations usually aren't characterized as other than honorable, as far as I know, unless there was some specific reason to do so.
As an aside, I am surprised the man who didn't make it to the crucible even got a Honorable Discharge certificate by the way.
I think that while there are a lot of things that aren't "honorable discharges", for benefit purposes it somewhat gets inverted to having to have a "not dishonorable" discharge vs a straight "honorable" discharge.
I think he meant something along the lines of he was surprised it wasn't considered an administrative separation under other then honorable. Usually that type of discharge would be that type. I had a few fail out of Boot Camp who got that type of Discharge. Hell i knew a guy who hit the fleet who got an adsep because he couldn't hack it.
Other than honorable usually requires some kind of misconduct or significant deviation from meeting standards. Entry-level separations usually aren't characterized as other than honorable, as far as I know, unless there was some specific reason to do so.
Usually, (this is my personal experience) those who get separated while in Boot Camp that aren't horrendously injured (IE Broken bodies) are usually considered non-hackers. Complaining about back pain or knee pain is fine and dandy but Corpsmen and DI's usually can tell which Recruits are legitimately hurt and those who are realizing they made a mistake by enlisting. Don't get me wrong they might try to force them through but there are always those that can't be fixed and because of that they give them other then honorable. But again that was just what i saw when I was at Parris Island.
conker249 wrote: FIrst off a little about me. I served in the Air force as security forces for 6 years, been deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan each once. So I know what it means to me about serving our country. I wish my brother(in law) would understand this. He served 2 weeks in Marine Corps Basic training(he gave up claiming his knee hurt), He got to his 2nd week and after receiving a letter from his fiance to come home, he now claims he is hurt and after 2 months of med hold, comes home. Only to start working as a tower climber. Doesn't seem right to me to fall out because of knee problems, only to go into a job that is physically stressful. and now he considers himself a marine corps Veteran. Marpat pants, semper fi brotherhood shirt, Marine corps bracelet, belt buckle, 8 point marpat cover. Devil Dogs stickers on vehicle. Everyday he wears at least 2 of the above items it seems. He wears his dog tags as "proof of service" and people eat it up, and give him discounts with no ID, just see the tags and assume. When people ask him about where he was stationed at during small talk, he says He was stationed in San Diego(Marines Boot camp training site) and doesn't say more. It irritates me because I feel that he is only telling half of the story. I have talked about it to him, yelled about it to him, explained in public when he tries to do it. Nothing works. He thinks he is better than me since I was "only Air Force". Being a marine trumps my service apparently, and brings it up every so often.
So my questions are
1) Should I care that he is posing
2) From a Marines standpoint, Is he a marine
3) What to do about it.
4) Am I being overly salty and blowing the situation out of proportion?
I'm late to the party, but I have a very similar story.
My brother's dream was always to join the marines, even when he was a little kid.
Eventually, he got into basic for the marines, and he made it through about 2 months, but came down with some kind of major intestinal issue that caused him to be unable to continue, and he had to quit due to from what I understand to be a very significant medical issue.
Long story short, he never got back into basic. They said they'd give him another shot once he got better, but it never materialized for him. It was a great tragedy for him.
And he doesn't ham it up near as much as your BIL seems to, I don't think he gets any material gain, doesn't claim military veteran discounts at the movies or anything, but he definitely considers himself an ex-marine, and his friends have mentioned to me that, for example, he's a good shot 'because he was in the marines". (He is a good shot, btw).
Plus, he will sometimes introduce him as being former military / marine.
And........I don't think that's accurate. Being a marine was a big deal for him, and I am truly sad that he wasn't able to make it through basic, I'm sure not for lack of trying, but I still don't feel super-awesome about him claiming to be a former marine because I don't think he was, technically. But I guess I don't feel that it's a big enough deal to call him out on it.
Well, at least he was medically discharged and didn't choose to quit the marines voluntarily like the op's brother in law did.
Is there a reason why he can't just join some other branch of the military with less rigorous fitness requirements like the army, or logistic/support regiments? Or does that same medical issue still preclude him for applying?
Peace time cutback, recruiter effort level vs time of investment.
A recruit can just sign a highschooler and be done. Why get the kid who failed?
I spent over half a year at P.I while having pending RA orders. I never was allowed to finish the crucible due to the sheer severity of injuries. Emergency surgery and sizeable rehab in P.I and through the VA. Did it all but the Crucible and Graduation. Still made it longer than any other branches boot camp. If I had gone any branch but the USMC or had my injuries been caught sooner Id have made it.
So "veteran," with full benefits and the treatment, if you can say that but, never a Marine.
I generally don't tell anyone. If people introduce me as a Veteran, it is what it is. My I.D for the VA and USPS states it. Do I consider myself one? No.
How could I? When measured to heroes like Chesty Puller, the Marines at Tarawa, Fallujah veterans, etc etc.
I was PEB'd via a med board. Honorable discharge against my will.
I have RE-3P for my re-enlistment code that is what keeps me out. Even having the chief VA ortho surgeon and two private doctors clear me "fit for full duty, re-enlistment and combat duties." No recruiter would want to mess with me. Even with the Army it can take years to get a RE-3P waiver pushed through.
Timeframe I am referring to is 2013-16 BTW. Manning is all times low, budget cuts, retension is too expensive.
Train up those high schoolers, screw waivers is the mindset.
Also to those trying to interpret what I said above.
I meant a certificate. Like an award that you get like a NAM (Navy achievement medal,) in a jacket/diploma style sleeve or a promotion styled award. I was only aware that you got the DD214 which displays character of service. Not a certificate or award on top of that/ a discharge certificate on top of that to display at work or your house. If that makes any sense.
I just got the DD214, being as I am somewhere between shower shoe and boot. Please forgive my ignorance.
Other than honorable would denote other things which is not what I was implying at all gents.
CptJake wrote: I've actually quoted official sources. It isn't a fething opinion at this point.
do marines have a milspermanual, I'm sure they have an equivalent? Let's see the regulation. without a regulation it's just an opinion.
Newsflash, unlike soldiers, airmen, sailors, coast guardsmen or otherwise. Marine is a title that is earned by some. The fact that you don't know this, proves you don't know anything about it.
To the OP. Your brother in law is a washout. If he is having issues with it, talk to the recruiter who signed him up and tell them he's walking around calling himself a Marine. They'll sort him out.
Yeah he ain't a Marine. It's earned, when you get your Eagle Globe and Anchor on Peatross Parade Deck, roughly around TD what, 64-65?
At the OP: While I was in PEB we were made to make and watch the RSP malingerers do work parties and go to their appointments so they would get Adsepped and kill time while waiting on the processing.
He is one of those. At the two week mark, he had just gotten his shots and wasn't even with his real Drill Instructors yet. Basically like getting fired on your first day in a civilian job He hadn't even got his nametapes sewn on yet. Not even a Phase 1 recruit. End of recieving drop.
CptJake wrote: I've actually quoted official sources. It isn't a fething opinion at this point.
do marines have a milspermanual, I'm sure they have an equivalent? Let's see the regulation. without a regulation it's just an opinion.
Newsflash, unlike soldiers, airmen, sailors, coast guardsmen or otherwise. Marine is a title that is earned by some. The fact that you don't know this, proves you don't know anything about it.
To the OP. Your brother in law is a washout. If he is having issues with it, talk to the recruiter who signed him up and tell them he's walking around calling himself a Marine. They'll sort him out.
The fact the marines make such a huge deal of finishing boot camp is hilarious to me. They take themselves so seriously they actually wrote it into the instruction, hilarious
I do know the marines, they're great guys, the butt of thousands of jokes and numerous pranks.
*mocking voice* It's a title to be earned */MV* LOL
The nerve of him thinking he's a marine, after swearing the oath and serving on active duty in the marine corpse during a time of war.
I'm honestly not sure why you feel the urge to mock and be condescending over this. Like many titles, it is earned not just given. Placing value on the earning means there is value to the title. Your inability to understand why folks value the title and do not like to see folks claim it without having earned it is really amazing.
CptJake wrote: I'm honestly not sure why you feel the urge to mock and be condescending over this. Like many titles, it is earned not just given. Placing value on the earning means there is value to the title. Your inability to understand why folks value the title and do not like to see folks claim it without having earned it is really amazing.
after 20 years of mocking marines, it's a hard habit to break
the "title" is the equivalent of a participation award handed out at little league.
CptJake wrote: I'm honestly not sure why you feel the urge to mock and be condescending over this. Like many titles, it is earned not just given. Placing value on the earning means there is value to the title. Your inability to understand why folks value the title and do not like to see folks claim it without having earned it is really amazing.
after 20 years of mocking marines, it's a hard habit to break
the "title" is the equivalent of a participation award handed out at little league.
That's ridiculously untrue. If it was true, everyone could/would be a Marine.
CptJake wrote: I'm honestly not sure why you feel the urge to mock and be condescending over this. Like many titles, it is earned not just given. Placing value on the earning means there is value to the title. Your inability to understand why folks value the title and do not like to see folks claim it without having earned it is really amazing.
after 20 years of mocking marines, it's a hard habit to break
the "title" is the equivalent of a participation award handed out at little league.
That's ridiculously untrue. If it was true, everyone could/would be a Marine.
It is true, everyone who played in little league and stayed for the whole game got a cool shiny medal. Then they made fun of the kid with asthma who had to leave early because he didn't get one.
CptJake wrote: I'm honestly not sure why you feel the urge to mock and be condescending over this. Like many titles, it is earned not just given. Placing value on the earning means there is value to the title. Your inability to understand why folks value the title and do not like to see folks claim it without having earned it is really amazing.
after 20 years of mocking marines, it's a hard habit to break
the "title" is the equivalent of a participation award handed out at little league.
That's ridiculously untrue. If it was true, everyone could/would be a Marine.
It is true, everyone who played in little league and stayed for the whole game got a cool shiny medal. Then they made fun of the kid with asthma who had to leave early because he didn't get one.
You have no idea what you're talking about. It's embarrassing. I would have thought a Navy veteran would know better.
Stormwall wrote: Ah, so my life threatening injury and emergency surgery was a participation trophy.
I guess my three screws were the prize.
USMC boot camp is no joke, there is a reason the title is earned and it is the toughest boot camp out of all the branches.
No, you were the kid with asthma who got sent home early, you didn't get the trophy.
After your pain and suffering while in the marines, I'd gladly call you a marine and thank you for your service.
Fortunately your calling anyone a Marine is worth absolutely nothing. I highly doubt with your attitude that you are anything more than the subject of the OP. Poser much? Troll much? Your a joke, welcome to the ignore button.
and it wouldn't honestly change the perception that he ISN'T a Marine.
.
