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 d-usa wrote:
Do marines start their active duty the day they show up to boot camp, or are they different than other services?

They're the same, once in boot camp you are on active duty.

Guard, Reserves, etc... you're on Active Service while at Basic Training.

 djones520 wrote:
Your ID card said US Navy. It said Seaman Recruit, and E1, because that was your rank. It never said Sailor.

that's the point though, fun fact, marines also say deptartment of the navy

once you are in boot camp on day 1, you're a sailor/marine/airman/grunt. once you're in, you're in the club. I know every service loves their rituals and traditions that have been around so long, people accept them as facts. I actually feel bad for everyone still in the navy as they've just lost their rates. Now that was something to be proud of. when you get to call yourself a marine is just silly.

At what point you call yourself a marine is a matter of opinion, but what we do know, is the day you get to boot camp and swear in, you're in the club. Weather it be for just 10 mins or if you actually finish boot camp. If you were on active duty, you qualify.

sirlynchmob wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
Your ID card said US Navy. It said Seaman Recruit, and E1, because that was your rank. It never said Sailor.

that's the point though, fun fact, marines also say deptartment of the navy

once you are in boot camp on day 1, you're a sailor/marine/airman/grunt. once you're in, you're in the club. I know every service loves their rituals and traditions that have been around so long, people accept them as facts. I actually feel bad for everyone still in the navy as they've just lost their rates. Now that was something to be proud of. when you get to call yourself a marine is just silly.

At what point you call yourself a marine is a matter of opinion, but what we do know, is the day you get to boot camp and swear in, you're in the club. Weather it be for just 10 mins or if you actually finish boot camp. If you were on active duty, you qualify.

It isn't a 'matter of opinion' at all. You make it to the ceremony, or you are not entitled to call yourself marine.

Hell, look at guidance for parents to contact their kid in boot camp: http://www.mcrdpi.marines.mil/Recruit-Training/Contacting-A-Recruit/

Notice they are to address the letter to Recruit XXXXX. Not Marine or Private. There is a reason for this, even if you refuse to acknowledge it.

It's not a matter of opinion. You don't earn the title of Marine until you receive your Eagle, Globe, and Anchor. Prior to that, you're either a Recruit or a Candidate (or a Midshipman, for Naval Academy students).

He can say he was a recruit in the Marine Corps or a Marine Corps recruit. He can't truthfully say he is or was a Marine.

It might be different in other branches, but you don't earn the title Marine just for showing up on day one.

The Crucible
The final challenge recruits face is a grueling, 54-hour exercise known as the Crucible. The recruits must apply everything they have developed throughout recruit training, including physical strength and endurance, mental fortitude and moral character. The recruits must work together to overcome the many challenges of the Crucible. The last portion of the test is a 9-mile hike from the training area to the Iwo Jima flag raising statue at Peatross Parade Deck, where those who have completed the challenge are awarded the Eagle, Globe and Anchor and officially claim the title of U.S. Marine.

http://www.mcrdpi.marines.mil/Recruit-Training/Graduation-Requirements/




But yeah, just opinion....

 CptJake wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
Your ID card said US Navy. It said Seaman Recruit, and E1, because that was your rank. It never said Sailor.

that's the point though, fun fact, marines also say deptartment of the navy

once you are in boot camp on day 1, you're a sailor/marine/airman/grunt. once you're in, you're in the club. I know every service loves their rituals and traditions that have been around so long, people accept them as facts. I actually feel bad for everyone still in the navy as they've just lost their rates. Now that was something to be proud of. when you get to call yourself a marine is just silly.

At what point you call yourself a marine is a matter of opinion, but what we do know, is the day you get to boot camp and swear in, you're in the club. Weather it be for just 10 mins or if you actually finish boot camp. If you were on active duty, you qualify.

It isn't a 'matter of opinion' at all. You make it to the ceremony, or you are not entitled to call yourself marine.

Hell, look at guidance for parents to contact their kid in boot camp: http://www.mcrdpi.marines.mil/Recruit-Training/Contacting-A-Recruit/

Notice they are to address the letter to Recruit XXXXX. Not Marine or Private. There is a reason for this, even if you refuse to acknowledge it.

of course theirs a reason, they joined the navy, hense their recruits

also thinking back, I was entitled to wear my ETSA insignia while in school to become an ET. I joined to be an ET, so I was considered one the day I joined and my letters were addressed ETSR. Like I said, different opinions. In the navy no one gave a gak about being called a sailor, it was all about the rates.

It's a matter of your opinion, seemingly, but everyone else I've spoken to on the matter, it seems to be a fact that a 2nd week recruit was not called a Marine, and never earned the right to call themselves Marine.

I was not an Airman until I completed Warrior week (or whatever the equivalent is now, our basic has undergone massive changes since I enlisted), my many Army friends confirm that you are not a Soldier until you graduate Basic Trianing, and my Sailor friends also confirm the same for what I stated earlier.

We have multiple Veterans in here backing this up. You're the only one whose served who say's otherwise. So...

 Ouze wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Are people E-1s when they show up to basic?

We take care of plenty of people at the VA who never made it through basic, some with no real service connected injuries.

Curious - how does that work exactly? If you sign up for the military, and wash out of basic, how much right do you have to treatment from the VA? At what point does it start, how much time in or what have you do you need?

I have nothing to do with eligibility, so I have no idea.

I always thought it was rather hard to just decide "I don't want to be a soldier/marine/whatever" anymore during boot camp, and that you had to have a legitimate reason to be let go from your service. Unless this guy has a bad discharge, he must have been able to produce a legitimate reason to separate.

sirlynchmob wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
Your ID card said US Navy. It said Seaman Recruit, and E1, because that was your rank. It never said Sailor.

that's the point though, fun fact, marines also say deptartment of the navy

once you are in boot camp on day 1, you're a sailor/marine/airman/grunt. once you're in, you're in the club. I know every service loves their rituals and traditions that have been around so long, people accept them as facts. I actually feel bad for everyone still in the navy as they've just lost their rates. Now that was something to be proud of. when you get to call yourself a marine is just silly.

At what point you call yourself a marine is a matter of opinion, but what we do know, is the day you get to boot camp and swear in, you're in the club. Weather it be for just 10 mins or if you actually finish boot camp. If you were on active duty, you qualify.

So, if I make it two weeks in to nursing school and drop out, I can go around telling people I am a nurse?

I mean, the pinning ceremony at the end of it is irrelevant, according to you.

I've actually quoted official sources. It isn't a fething opinion at this point.

 Dreadwinter wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
Your ID card said US Navy. It said Seaman Recruit, and E1, because that was your rank. It never said Sailor.

that's the point though, fun fact, marines also say deptartment of the navy

once you are in boot camp on day 1, you're a sailor/marine/airman/grunt. once you're in, you're in the club. I know every service loves their rituals and traditions that have been around so long, people accept them as facts. I actually feel bad for everyone still in the navy as they've just lost their rates. Now that was something to be proud of. when you get to call yourself a marine is just silly.

At what point you call yourself a marine is a matter of opinion, but what we do know, is the day you get to boot camp and swear in, you're in the club. Weather it be for just 10 mins or if you actually finish boot camp. If you were on active duty, you qualify.

So, if I make it two weeks in to nursing school and drop out, I can go around telling people I am a nurse?

I mean, the pinning ceremony at the end of it is irrelevant, according to you.

I didn't swear my fancy nursing oath the first day, and I certainly didn't receive RN pay starting my first day in nursing school.

 CptJake wrote:
I've actually quoted official sources. It isn't a fething opinion at this point.

do marines have a milspermanual, I'm sure they have an equivalent? Let's see the regulation. without a regulation it's just an opinion.

 d-usa wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
Your ID card said US Navy. It said Seaman Recruit, and E1, because that was your rank. It never said Sailor.

that's the point though, fun fact, marines also say deptartment of the navy

once you are in boot camp on day 1, you're a sailor/marine/airman/grunt. once you're in, you're in the club. I know every service loves their rituals and traditions that have been around so long, people accept them as facts. I actually feel bad for everyone still in the navy as they've just lost their rates. Now that was something to be proud of. when you get to call yourself a marine is just silly.

At what point you call yourself a marine is a matter of opinion, but what we do know, is the day you get to boot camp and swear in, you're in the club. Weather it be for just 10 mins or if you actually finish boot camp. If you were on active duty, you qualify.

So, if I make it two weeks in to nursing school and drop out, I can go around telling people I am a nurse?

I mean, the pinning ceremony at the end of it is irrelevant, according to you.

I didn't swear my fancy nursing oath the first day, and I certainly didn't receive RN pay starting my first day in nursing school.

They wont let you handle the fun drugs until the end either :(

Quick search just says that people who separated honorably can wear the uniforms of the rank they held, which should be E1 if he indeed separated honorably.

 d-usa wrote:
Quick search just says that people who separated honorably can wear the uniforms of the rank they held, which should be E1 if he indeed separated honorably.

People who seperate in Basic are highly unlikely to do so Honorably. Per my wife, who was discharged due to medical reasons, her discharge was "uncharacterized". There is also a General Discharge, Entry Level Discharge (which has to occur withing 180 days of entering service), etc...

I don't know of a single instance where someone who was discharged in Basic who got an Honorable.

 djones520 wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Quick search just says that people who separated honorably can wear the uniforms of the rank they held, which should be E1 if he indeed separated honorably.

People who seperate in Basic are highly unlikely to do so Honorably. Per my wife, who was discharged due to medical reasons, her discharge was "uncharacterized". There is also a General Discharge, Entry Level Discharge (which has to occur withing 180 days of entering service), etc...

I don't know of a single instance where someone who was discharged in Basic who got an Honorable.

It would probably be limited to legitimate medical discharges I would imagine.

 d-usa wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Quick search just says that people who separated honorably can wear the uniforms of the rank they held, which should be E1 if he indeed separated honorably.

People who seperate in Basic are highly unlikely to do so Honorably. Per my wife, who was discharged due to medical reasons, her discharge was "uncharacterized". There is also a General Discharge, Entry Level Discharge (which has to occur withing 180 days of entering service), etc...

I don't know of a single instance where someone who was discharged in Basic who got an Honorable.

It would probably be limited to legitimate medical discharges I would imagine.

An honorable discharge would require a record of positive service. There is no such record for Basic Training recruits. The vast majority who don't hack it get ELD's. No harm, no foul. You tried, didn't make the initial cut, thank's for trying.

( C ) Training. Recruit Training is comprised of 70 training days. Phase one focuses on building discipline, physical fitness, drill, water survival, and mastery of Marine common skills. Phase two of training covers Table 1 marksmanship qualification and small unit leadership. Phase three of training includes Table 2 marksmanship qualification, field training, and the Crucible. The Crucible emphasizes team work and endurance around Core
Values, Warrior Stations, Leadership Reaction Course (an evaluated event focusing on core values), and movement course, as well as other mentally and physically challenging events. A final foot march will conclude with the Emblem ceremony that defines a recruit's transition to a Marine. This ceremony is followed by a 'Warrior's" meal.

http://www.marines.mil/Portals/59/MCO%201510.32F.pdf

So there is the reg.

Never tell a CGO to provide the reg.

Never.

sirlynchmob wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
I've actually quoted official sources. It isn't a fething opinion at this point.

do marines have a milspermanual, I'm sure they have an equivalent? Let's see the regulation. without a regulation it's just an opinion.

I've quoted official Marine sources multiple times. You can be deliberately obtuse, that is your right. It however does not make you right.

You're entitled to your 'opinion' even if facts prove you wrong.

 CptJake wrote:

( C ) Training. Recruit Training is comprised of 70 training days. Phase one focuses on building discipline, physical fitness, drill, water survival, and mastery of Marine common skills. Phase two of training covers Table 1 marksmanship qualification and small unit leadership. Phase three of training includes Table 2 marksmanship qualification, field training, and the Crucible. The Crucible emphasizes team work and endurance around Core
Values, Warrior Stations, Leadership Reaction Course (an evaluated event focusing on core values), and movement course, as well as other mentally and physically challenging events. A final foot march will conclude with the Emblem ceremony that defines a recruit's transition to a Marine. This ceremony is followed by a 'Warrior's" meal.

http://www.marines.mil/Portals/59/MCO%201510.32F.pdf

So there is the reg.

Here you go OP. Just call him Recruit from here on out. Because that is all he is. He'll never know the feeling of leaving the Depot knowing he has accomplished something few people have.

 djones520 wrote:
Never tell a CGO to provide the reg.

Never.

always ask for the regs, always.

It took jake 3 tries to find it. LOL quoting a web site as official, you might as well quote yahoo answers. The reg should have been the first thing he posted.

Glad it isn't just me feeling too uppity about it. It strikes a nerve when he parades around in the marine corps everything. I know Marines are very protective of their title that they earned(and deserve), and say what you want of the air force, I earned my right to be called an Airmen, regardless of whether you think it is cake or not.
I took him to the VA when he got back, in 2013(his full service was December 2012 getting on the plane, to February 2013 getting off the plane to come home) before he wore any of the marine corps anything, to get signed up since he swears his DI's told him that the medical part doesn't matter while he was in boot, and that the VA will sort it out. The guy read his papers, and told him to get out of his office. I was laughing on the inside. After that is when he really started wearing the Marine stuff. getting custom made leather bracelets and belt to top off even more stuff he wears.

I stepped on a ship once therefor I am now a Captain. Call me Captain Ahtman. Avast Ye.

sirlynchmob wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
Your ID card said US Navy. It said Seaman Recruit, and E1, because that was your rank. It never said Sailor.

that's the point though, fun fact, marines also say deptartment of the navy

That's because the Department of the Navy has two branches, the Navy, and the Marine Corps. The Marine Corps is a naval service.

Former Marine. Did five years. You aren't considered a Marine unless you made it through boot camp. If you didn't make it your title is wash out. The rest of the world can make up excuses to call you Marine, but to those that actually made it you will never be a Marine. The guy OP describes is a pathetic wannabe that wants credit for something he couldn't complete. Talk is cheap. The oath means nothing if you didn't make it through boot camp.

I have an uncle a little like this, only my uncle really did serve in the Army. He just never served in combat according to my family + extended family, he was in some sort of non-combat rear echelon support role which is itself worthy of respect, because you're still serving your country and giving up years of your life.

And yet... he likes to give the impression that he did serve in combat, but even my Grandmother who used to think the sun shines out of his arse, knows thats bs. He never got anywhere near a frontline. He talks and posts on Facebook (lots of motivational posters etc), about lots of British Army operations like the Falklands (when he was a child) or the first Gulf War, and then when questioned says "I don't like to talk about it".

He even likes to wear my late Grandfather's medals and doesn't bother to correct people when they assume he earned them. Or at least, he used to wear them...My Dad and my 2nd Uncle managed to retrieve the medals and return them to my Grandmother. They were worried he might sell them. The funny thing is, my Grandfather served in the Suez Crisis...before my Uncle was born...in the Royal Navy, not the army.

What would you call that..."Embellished Valour"?

sirlynchmob wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Do marines start their active duty the day they show up to boot camp, or are they different than other services?

They're the same, once in boot camp you are on active duty.

Just to clarify this note... AT least in the army (and at least when I went through it) until you are MOSQ you are in a "trainee" status. Yes, you are active duty, which counts towards GI Bill time, active service and IRR requirements, etc.

But this is not the same thing as earning a military title.... In the case of the OP, that title is Marine.

Looks like case closed boys. This has been another episode of Dakka Court.

Good night.