Hello all, figured I'd start a thread specifically for the Inquisition portion of the new Codex: Imperial Agents coming out.
Well I'll start with my thoughts: We've lost our Servo Skulls and Psykers, which saddens me greatly. Moving on from the bad news, now Inquisitors can take other units with them depending on their type. This seems like an incredibly cool, and very fluffy way to add a little punch to an Inquisitor's retinue, this is one of the new things I like.
One more piece of bad news though, the Henchman squads don't look like they'll be nearly as powerful, or flexible as they used to be.
Losing Servo Skulls was a big hit, at a lot of people would bring in an cheap Inquisitor for the option of taking three skulls. The loss does remove the ability to lay down an immediate counter for a few oppositions, but it's not the end of the world. As a Guard player, I still intend on using Coteaz as a counter for deep striking units targeting my artillery and tank rears.
On the plus side, I think some of the formations attend to the fluffier desires of some players, myself included. I haven't seen anything beyond the book index and a rundown of what's in it, so I can't make a fully educated remark beyond that.
slowclinic wrote: Losing Servo Skulls was a big hit, at a lot of people would bring in an cheap Inquisitor for the option of taking three skulls.
This was a blessing in disguise for the game. Even Eldar players did this to ensure you couldn't get close enough to their Bikers and in other instances Warp Spiders.
Man, no Skulls?! that's kinda weird. they are really prevalent in the fluff too, and now they are not anywhere in the game. I think they should have at least re-worked it to be something like the Cyber-Occularus upgrade in HH. (Draw LOS for barrage weapons, no scatter, interceptor and -1 cover within 12" of the skull)
But, anyways, I like this book's idea a lot. I may pick myself up a copy to play that enginseer with an onager squad so they could splitfire with POTMS, and take some servitors for meatshields I guess.
slowclinic wrote: Losing Servo Skulls was a big hit, at a lot of people would bring in an cheap Inquisitor for the option of taking three skulls.
This was a blessing in disguise for the game. Even Eldar players did this to ensure you couldn't get close enough to their Bikers and in other instances Warp Spiders.
Yeah, this is true. There are some ups to it when you look at it that way. I've never played against anyone doing that, and now I never will!
Tiger9gamer wrote: Man, no Skulls?! that's kinda weird. they are really prevalent in the fluff too, and now they are not anywhere in the game. I think they should have at least re-worked it to be something like the Cyber-Occularus upgrade in HH. (Draw LOS for barrage weapons, no scatter, interceptor and -1 cover within 12" of the skull)
But, anyways, I like this book's idea a lot. I may pick myself up a copy to play that enginseer with an onager squad so they could splitfire with POTMS, and take some servitors for meatshields I guess.
Servo Skulls still exist, they are all over the Skitarii and Cult Mechanicus books as infoslave and scryer skulls. Plus theres tons of models that have them in game but do not have rules to acoompany, like Scions and Guard Commanders
gummyofallbears wrote: I think that Inquisition can benefit very easily from the best parts of the armies that are added.
I don't have the book yet, and I didn't know it was leaked, but dreadknights and kill teams seem amazing.
Also, there is still the Astra Telepathica, yeah? That's a gak ton of psychers available?
From some of the leaked pictures I've seen it looks like the Astra Telepathica will be essentially composed of the Imperial Guard's "Psykana Division" detachment. It's expensive, but useful.
It's really a shame with the Servo Skulls not being an official unit... I literally just built three of them for use on the tabletop.
On the plus side, I think some of the formations attend to the fluffier desires of some players, myself included. I haven't seen anything beyond the book index and a rundown of what's in it, so I can't make a fully educated remark beyond that.
Yeah, this is one of the definite plus sides for me.
Also, I found this one the interwebs, a rough approximation of what's in the new codex:
I just finished painting my 6 Inquisition Psychers. It's a real bummer to me that this book changed the makeup of the henchmen squad to make it less flexible. Sisters and Inquistion got the Tyranid / Ork / Dark Eldar treatment it would seem.
I'm still interesting in finding a way to make use of my 3 Ordo Malleus inquisitors in Termie armor, my 6 Inquisition Chimeras, and my 20 or so Acolytes of various persuasion, and all of my other built but not painted inquisition stuff.
The original thought was to combo them with my Militarum Tempestus and run this:
Spoiler:
Militarum Tempestus CAD:
Scion Command Squad (4 Plasmaguns) in a Taurox Prime (Taurox Missile Launcher)
Scion Squad (2 Plasmaguns) in a Taurox Prime (Taurox Missile Launcher)
Scion Squad (2 Plasmaguns) in a Taurox Prime (Taurox Missile Launcher)
Scion Squad (2 Plasmaguns) in a Taurox Prime (Taurox Missile Launcher)
2 Acolates w/ Melta Guns + psykers in a Chimera (2 Heavy bolters, Psybolt)
2 Acolates w/ Melta Guns + psykers in a Chimera (2 Heavy bolters, Psybolt)
2 Acolates w/ Melta Guns + psykers in a Chimera (2 Heavy bolters, Psybolt)
2 Acolates w/ Melta Guns + psykers in a Chimera (2 Heavy bolters, Psybolt)
2 Acolates w/ Melta Guns + psykers in a Chimera (2 Heavy bolters, Psybolt)
2 Acolates w/ Melta Guns + psykers in a Chimera (2 Heavy bolters, Psybolt)
Now that the psykers and servo skulls are gone, and it looks like I'm going to be capped to 1 Inquisitor per detachment, I'm thinking comboing with Militarum Tempestus might not be the best way to go.
Lots of MSU Psychic Shrieks is no longer something that Inquisition does well. What do they still do well? Deathstar up? Is there anything they gained?
It seems like some of the old combos may still work with new limitations as to how big you can go. An inquisitor could lead a unit of acolytes with plasma guns, a crusader, and a couple of jokaero in a tough little shooty unit. In a transport they could choose between plasma, melta, and flamers and scout with the liber which appears to have remained. The larger dca crusader combo is toast, though... I can't imagine that working on a small scale with just one of each. I can see the affiliated sisters squad being a source of cheap power armor and special weapons. Get a pile of melta shots between them and the acolytes, use the 3+ armor to tank shots, and hope for the old jokaero range enhancement.
I'm bummed about the skulls. I know they were being abused, but I used mine to guide units of seraphim down into perfect flamer range, with or without Celestine. The final motivation I needed to boost my White Scars into full production...
MacPhail wrote: It seems like some of the old combos may still work with new limitations as to how big you can go. An inquisitor could lead a unit of acolytes with plasma guns, a crusader, and a couple of jokaero in a tough little shooty unit. In a transport they could choose between plasma, melta, and flamers and scout with the liber which appears to have remained. The larger dca crusader combo is toast, though... I can't imagine that working on a small scale with just one of each. I can see the affiliated sisters squad being a source of cheap power armor and special weapons. Get a pile of melta shots between them and the acolytes, use the 3+ armor to tank shots, and hope for the old jokaero range enhancement.
I'm bummed about the skulls. I know they were being abused, but I used mine to guide units of seraphim down into perfect flamer range, with or without Celestine. The final motivation I needed to boost my White Scars into full production...
The DCA / Crusader combo is still there, in fact you can have up to 10 of each in one unit if you really wanted, which is more than you could do before.
tag8833 wrote: It doesn't read to me that the Sisters / DW / GK join the same unit as the Acolytes, and the other Henchmen in that formation. Am I wrong?
As I see it, you get 3 units.
- Inquisitor
- Acolytes and other henchmen
- Sisters / DW / GK
As I reread it, I think the inquisitor, acolytes, and assorted henchmen are a single unit, and the requisitioned chambers militant squad another within the formation.
Also, my reading is that you can have multiple daemonhosts and jokaero, but just one of each other henchman type, although there's a healthy discussion about that in the rumors thread. I don't know how the sisters list handles dca and crusader combos... Haven't seen those pages yet.
For now. But when he forgets it on the battlefield, he is going to be pissed as hell when he finds out that the rest of the Inquisition pawned the entire supply of servo skulls to pay for hookers and blow.
If you are taking coteaz, you could always take either three minimum acolytes or three daemonhosts for some cheap obscene to hide out of line of sight.
I mean, coteaz + 3 Daemonhosts is 130, which isn't bad considering coteaz is already underpriced for what he provides.
I'm confused about the detachment and unit stuff.... let me see if I understand correctly..
- You cannot take more than 1 inquisitorial warband per detachment - Jokero, death cult assassins, crusaders, etc, are all their own units. Meaning the only way to include them in a single unit as before would be use the warband, which you only get one of.
Why would they do this? Aren't jokero meant to upgrade units, not just be a unit on their own? And what about the warband? Why destroy the ability to create a full army of various hybrid units that are servants of the inquisitor?
I guess you can, but you need to take, like 6 detachments. Not possible for events with set rules. Great.
Found this info on the main Codex: Imperial Agents thread:
Spoiler:
GoonBandito wrote: Codex in hand, ask away. Things I can quickly confirm:
Canonness Veridyan has a dataslate with rules. She gives out a Precision Shot/Precision Strike bubble to Adepta Sororitas units within 12". Otherwise same as a regular Canoness, but comes with a Power Sword, and she costs 85pts. My first thought - sit her near a unit of Retributors for pseudo-Snipers (ie Rending Heavy Bolters with Precision Shots). Incidentally, the cast on my model looks good - only a very minor bubble on the back of the cloak where you'll never see it. It's also got a 2016 copyright for those interested.
All the armies in the book are their own Factions, with all the implications that carries. The Valkyrie in particular is listed as-is from the Astra Militarum codex (with Faction: Aeronautica Imperialis instead). BUT, Acolytes *can* take a Valkyrie as a Dedicated Transport (as well as Battle Sister Rhinos and Grey Knight Land Raiders). Games Workshop just borked their own FAQ as far as I can tell :s
The Canoness still has the Eviscerator and Inferno Pistols as a wargear option on her dataslate for those who were worried.
The Exorcist Missile Launcher is specifically ruled as a Turret Mounted weapon with 360-degree arc of sight.
Condemnor Boltguns and Immolators have the modified FAQ rulings (ie Condemnor Boltguns only need to hit a unit with a Psyker in it to cause Perils, and Immolators have a Fire Point).
Warlord Traits/Relics are unchanged for both Sororitas and Inquisition
Grey Knights Formation (Demonhunter Strike Force) is 1 Troop, 1 Fast Attack, 1 optional Heavy Support and all units can start making Deep Strike reserve rolls from turn 1 as well as Running and Shooting the turn they Deep Strike. Basically its a slightly different Nemesis Strike Force
Acolytes are 3-9 Acolytes with same statline and upgrade options as before (though Carapace and Power Armour got cut in cost by half). Additionally, any Acolyte can be upgraded to a Mystic with the same No Deep Strike Scatter rule as before. The unit can take Chimeras, Soroitas Rhinos, Land Raiders of all 3 types and Valkyries as Dedicated Transports.
Demonhosts are a unit of 1 - and now have the actual Demon rule too! - but are otherwise unchanged.
Edit2: So after looking through the Adepta Sororitas and Inquisition lists, here are the changes I can see from the e-dexs. If I didn't mention it, it didn't change as far as I can see.
Sororitas Command Squad moved to the Elites section
New unit: Arco-flagellants (Elite). 3 Arco-Flagellants for 30pts, can buy up to 7 more. Rhino or Immolator as DT.
New unit: Crusaders (Elite). 2 Crusaders for 30pts, can buy up to 8 more. Rhino or Immolator as DT
New unit: Death Cult Assassins (Elite). 2 DCA's for 30pts, can buy up to 8 more. Rhino or immolator.
New detachment: Ministorum Delegation. 1 HQ (must be a Ministorum Priest) and 1 optional Elite, all units in the detachment gain Shield of Faith.
New detachment: Vestal Task Force. 1 HQ, 2 Troops, 1 Elite, optional 1 HQ, 4 Troops, 2 Elites, 3 Fast Attack, 3 Heavy Support. Once per game all units can re-roll saving throws of 1 until the end of the turn. Warlord can re-roll Walord Trait if Primary Detachment.
New formation: Ecclisarchy Battle Conclave. 1 Ministorum Priest or Uriah Jacobus. 3-10 units in any combination of Arco-flagellants, Crusaders or Death Cult Assassins. All models in the Formation form a single unit, and all models get the Shield of Faith rule.
Immolator: Gained a Fire Point on the top hatch (as per the draft FAQ).
Condemnor Boltgun: Only requires you to hit an enemy unit with a Psyker to cause Perils, rather than having to cause an Unsaved Wound (as per the draft FAQ)
Acts of Faith: They all now last until the End of the Turn, rather than the End of the Phase. This means some slight buffs, eg Battle Sister Squads can now carry their Preferred Enemy Act of Faith from the Shooting Phase into the Assault Phase of the same turn.
Exorcist: Exorcist Missile Launcher clarified to be a turret mounted weapon with a 360-degree arc of sight.
New Tactical Objectives:
* Slay the Heretic: Score 1 VP at the end of your turn if you killed any enemy characters during the turn
* Armour of Contempt: The next time one of your Adepta Sororitas makes a successful Shield of Faith save or Deny the Witch roll, immediately score 1 VP.
* Reclaim Lost Relic: Roll a D6 - Score 1 VP at the end of your turn if you control the objective that corresponds to the D6 result.
* Trust in the Emperor: Score 1 VP at the end of your turn if a unit with the Act of Faith rule destroys an enemy unit. If the unit was under the effects of an Act of Faith, score D3 VPs instead.
* The Blood of Martyrs: Next time one of your Adepta Sororitas characters is slain, score 1 VP. If the model as the Martyrdom rule, score D3 VPs instead.
* A Leap of Faith: Score 1 VP at the end of your turn if you pass at least 1 Act of Faith test during the turn. If you pass 3, score D3 VPs instead. If you pass 6 or more, score D3+3 VPs instead.
Inquisition:
Inquisitors - lost the cheaper power weapon, power fist and plasma pistol options which are now standard price (with the exception of the Ordo Xenos Inquisitor, who can still take 10pt Power Swords but still can't take Power Fists or other Power Weapons).
Inquisitors - Power Armour upgrade reduced to 3pts from 8pts
Inquisitors - lost Servo Skulls
Inquisitors - can now only take the Inquisitorial Relic associated with their Ordos.
Inquisitors - Psyk-Out grenade rules changed to match the updated Grey Knight rules
Ordo Malleus Inquisitors - Can generate from Demonology (Malefic). Does not extend to Coteaz.... (heresy).
Inquisitor Coteaz - Gained the Lord of Formosa special rule. All units in the same detachment as Coteaz are Objective Secured.
Dedicated Transports - Lost Razorbacks and Rhinos, but gained Sororitas Rhinos. Chimeras are still only 55pts, but lost the 5 Fire Points (now work the same as Codex: Astra Militarum ie 2 Fire Points and the Lasgun Arrays rule). Lost the ability to give Inquisitorial Vehicle Upgrades to anything but the Chimera - this means no more Psybolt Land Raider Crusaders. This is because Land Raiders, Sororitas Rhinos and Valkyries come from the Grey Knight, Adepta Sororitas and Aeronautica Imperalis lists respectively, and can only take the Vehicle Upgrades listed in those sections.
Inquisitorial Henchman Warband unit removed.
Psykers Removed (ie no longer an option as a Henchman. Effectively moved to the Adepta Astra Telepathica section, where you can grab Primaris Psykers, Astropaths and Wyrdvane Psykers). Astropaths btw are 25pts for ML1 (Divination and Telepathy), same statline as the Astra Militarum Regimental Advisor. However you can upgrade this one to ML2 for 25pts, give him a Refractor Field for 10pts and also gets a rule where if he manifests a Psychic Power you can re-roll Reserve Rolls in your next turn. Basically a mini Primaris Psyker
Servitors Removed (moved to the Cult Mechanicus section of the book. Plasma Cannon option increased to 15pts from 10pts)
New Unit: Acolytes (Elite). 3 Acolytes for 12pts and can buy up to 9 more for 4pts/model. Same statline and wargear options as previous codex, however the cost of Carapace/Power armour upgrades are cut in half (2 and 5pts respectively). Any Acolyte can be upgraded to a Mystic for 6pts, and gain the same Psychic Beacon rule. Can take Chimeras, Sororitas Rhinos, all 3 Land Raider types or Valkyries as transports.
New Unit: Demonhost (Elite). 1 Demonhost for 10pts. Gains the Demon rule, otherwise identical to previous codex.
New Unit: Jokaero Weaponsmith (Elite). 1 Jokareo Weaponsmith for 35pts. Identical to previous codex.
New Unit: Chimera (Heavy Support). Also lost the 5 fire points, and now works the same as the Astra Militarum one.
New Detachment: Inquisitorial Representative. 1 HQ, optional 3 Elites. One Inquisitor from the formation (including Unique models) can generate a Warlord Trait even if they are not the Warlord.
New Formation: Inquisitorial Henchman Warband. 1 Inquisitor (including Unique models), 1 Unit of Acolytes, 0-1 Ministorum Priests, 0-1 Crusaders, 0-6 Demonhosts, 0-1 Arco-flagellents, 0-1 Death Cult Assassins, 0-1 Tech-Priest Enginseer, 0-6 Jokearo Weaponsmiths, 0-1 Astropaths. All units except the Inquisitor must form a single Unit. Inquisitor can generate a Warlord Trait even if they are not the Warlord. Can include either a Battle Sister Squad, Grey Knight Terminator Squad or Deathwatch Veteran squad in the formation as per your Inquisitors Ordo.
One thing I noticed was that the Acolyte Carapace Armor cost has been cut in half, this might just make properly equipped "Inquisition Storm Troopers" viable. As it currently stands (if I remember correctly, it's been a little while), an Inquisition Storm Trooper with Carapace and Hotshot Lasgun costs 12 points, only two points less than a Scion but without the advantages of BS 4 and deepstrike. The cheaper Acolyte body armor will bring the cost down to around 10 points a model, which is actually very appealing. Finally, I can field proper Inquisitional Storm Troopers!
(Aight I'll admit, still expensive, but definitely more viable for casual games.)
Cothonian wrote: One thing I noticed was that the Acolyte Carapace Armor cost has been cut in half, this might just make properly equipped "Inquisition Storm Troopers" viable. As it currently stands (if I remember correctly, it's been a little while), an Inquisition Storm Trooper with Carapace and Hotshot Lasgun costs 12 points, only two points less than a Scion but without the advantages of BS 4 and deepstrike. The cheaper Acolyte body armor will bring the cost down to around 10 points a model, which is actually very appealing. Finally, I can field proper Inquisitional Storm Troopers!
(Aight I'll admit, still expensive, but definitely more viable for casual games.)
The old ISTs came with Hellguns, which were just AP5 lasguns, not Hot Shot Lasguns, and the only time you saw them was as min squad Troops choices or Plasma-carriers. If you want to recreate them, I reckon Carapace Armour, three Plasma Guns, two Boltguns and a transport would be the way to go.
Okay, probably-not-competetive-but-still-fun-tactic:
The Mace of Valaan is normally a pretty specialized tool. It gives a Master-Crafter Power Maul, which is kinda meh, but when you're within 6" of a model with the Daemon Special Rule you get Fleshbane and Armorbane. So, it's usually just good if you're facing Daemons.
HOWEVER...
Daemonhosts now have the Daemon Special Rule.
See where I'm going with this?
Take a single priest. Attach him to a unit of Daemonhosts, or an Inquisitorial Conclave that includes a Daemonhost, whichever you prefer. Run around, laughing.
Also, speaking of fighting Daemons, does the -1 invuln Warlord Trait for Inquisition stack? Because taking four or five Malleus inquisitors in order to get that Warlord Trait is not a bad idea at all if you know what army you're going to be facing.
slowclinic wrote: Losing Servo Skulls was a big hit, at a lot of people would bring in an cheap Inquisitor for the option of taking three skulls. The loss does remove the ability to lay down an immediate counter for a few oppositions, but it's not the end of the world. As a Guard player, I still intend on using Coteaz as a counter for deep striking units targeting my artillery and tank rears.
On the plus side, I think some of the formations attend to the fluffier desires of some players, myself included. I haven't seen anything beyond the book index and a rundown of what's in it, so I can't make a fully educated remark beyond that.
Yeah that's unfortunate but does this actually replace the Codex: Inquisition? My understanding, LIKE with the Orks, is that you can use the Thrakka codex just fine along with the newer stuff. So I havent seen it yet but... i definitely used the Servo Skulls thing at the BAO.
Also, unrelated: This would mean Kroot now have a place in my force again. An inexpensive Infiltrating unit is very useful for holding back the White Scars battle companies of the world, although not AS well as the Servo Skulls did. It still is something to consider now. The other alternative is Stealthsuits which are more expensive, and less numerous but ultimately make up for it in raw killing power and 2+ saves in cover. So there is something to be said for that solution as well, though bad luck goes a lot further unfortunately when it comes to Stealthsuits. Anywho, fun to think about.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Waaaghpower wrote: Okay, probably-not-competetive-but-still-fun-tactic:
The Mace of Valaan is normally a pretty specialized tool. It gives a Master-Crafter Power Maul, which is kinda meh, but when you're within 6" of a model with the Daemon Special Rule you get Fleshbane and Armorbane. So, it's usually just good if you're facing Daemons.
HOWEVER...
Daemonhosts now have the Daemon Special Rule.
See where I'm going with this?
Take a single priest. Attach him to a unit of Daemonhosts, or an Inquisitorial Conclave that includes a Daemonhost, whichever you prefer. Run around, laughing.
Also, speaking of fighting Daemons, does the -1 invuln Warlord Trait for Inquisition stack? Because taking four or five Malleus inquisitors in order to get that Warlord Trait is not a bad idea at all if you know what army you're going to be facing.
Waaaghpower wrote: Take a single priest. Attach him to a unit of Daemonhosts, or an Inquisitorial Conclave that includes a Daemonhost, whichever you prefer. Run around, laughing.
The Daemon Priest of Fleet Street. I like it. I dunno if it'd be any good, but I would like to see someone deploy it on the table.
The Mace is AP4, isn't it? You could kill a Hive Tyrant or a Patriarch with this unit. That would be funny.
Waaaghpower wrote: Take a single priest. Attach him to a unit of Daemonhosts, or an Inquisitorial Conclave that includes a Daemonhost, whichever you prefer. Run around, laughing.
The Daemon Priest of Fleet Street. I like it. I dunno if it'd be any good, but I would like to see someone deploy it on the table.
The Mace is AP4, isn't it? You could kill a Hive Tyrant or a Patriarch with this unit. That would be funny.
Waaaghpower wrote: Okay, probably-not-competetive-but-still-fun-tactic:
The Mace of Valaan is normally a pretty specialized tool. It gives a Master-Crafter Power Maul, which is kinda meh, but when you're within 6" of a model with the Daemon Special Rule you get Fleshbane and Armorbane. So, it's usually just good if you're facing Daemons.
HOWEVER...
Daemonhosts now have the Daemon Special Rule.
See where I'm going with this?
Take a single priest. Attach him to a unit of Daemonhosts, or an Inquisitorial Conclave that includes a Daemonhost, whichever you prefer. Run around, laughing.
I like where you are coming from with this idea. Definitely worth trying it. You can always use your war hymn for smash to make it an AP2 fleshbane power maul.
Waaaghpower wrote: Also, speaking of fighting Daemons, does the -1 invuln Warlord Trait for Inquisition stack? Because taking four or five Malleus inquisitors in order to get that Warlord Trait is not a bad idea at all if you know what army you're going to be facing.
Since we've all just been through the infernal tetrad release where this argument came up a bunch, I think the majority came down on the side of Warlord traits not stacking like that, though there is some disagreement.
The spamming warlord traits thing is quite interesting. I want to see what trait options there are in the new book. Hoping for something new.
So Fleshbane, Armourbane and Smash, and you only need one Daemonhost to power the Mace. I can't remember how the new Inquisitorial Warbands work now - is there a way to get Storm Shields in there, plus another IC to accept Challenges so the Priest doesn't have to? If so you have yourself a delivery system for the Demon Priest.
Seems like a trick that would work the first time and then never again, but the idea of a cubby, baldy little Priest smacking a Thunderwolf around with his Mace is pretty funny.
So Fleshbane, Armourbane and Smash, and you only need one Daemonhost to power the Mace. I can't remember how the new Inquisitorial Warbands work now - is there a way to get Storm Shields in there, plus another IC to accept Challenges so the Priest doesn't have to? If so you have yourself a delivery system for the Demon Priest.
Seems like a trick that would work the first time and then never again, but the idea of a cubby, baldy little Priest smacking a Thunderwolf around with his Mace is pretty funny.
The inquisitorial warband can take a single Storm Shield, but no more. Kinda sucks, but oh well. (You can also have twelve Acolytes as bodyshields, an Assassin, etc.)
Waaaghpower wrote: The inquisitorial warband can take a single Storm Shield, but no more. Kinda sucks, but oh well. (You can also have twelve Acolytes as bodyshields, an Assassin, etc.)
Just one SS - is that right? I haven't seen the "Crusaders" page but the Inquisitorial Warband Formation says "0-1 Crusaders", which I believe means "0-1 units of Crusaders" rather than "0-1 single dude". I could be wrong, though. Also the Acolytes can take Storm Shields, can they not? I'm not sure the meatshields would work - Priests don't get many attacks so you need to keep him hidden for as long as possible, and the bare Acolytes are just going to get eaten in the first assault phase which leaves him open to gribbling during the next.
Cothonian wrote: I'm liking this mace + daemonhost tactic more than I should
Seems trollish beyond belief, I love it!
You're not alone. I know it won't be "competitive" but I want to see a Priest wrecking face all the same.
Crazyterran wrote: Coteaz and cheap Acolytes to hide in the backfield and hold objectives?
Definitely that.
I think they are a good source of limited Ob Sec now too, thanks to Coteaz getting a boost.
Coteaz + 3 psybolt chimeras with 3 acolytes a piece is 7 ob sec units, and for around 400 points, you aren't going to do much better than that for most armies.
I was thinking the Henchmen formation would lend itself to better deathstars, but there are serious limitations.
1) The Liber Heresius is no longer available to the Xenos Inquisitor, so now you need a 2nd detachment to get a Hereticus inquisitor to get the land raider scout. How is that going to work with BB starting in transports?
2) Without psybolt, the Land Raiders won't be as good, and you are still going to need a land raider to get you there.
3) The requirement to take 3 acolytes mean you have 3 less damage dealers in your deathstar.
4) The fact that most organized play had caps on detachments is going to make it awful hard to justify spending 2 of them on inquisition to get a substandard deathstar.
Coteaz and cheap Acolytes to hide in the backfield and hold objectives?
If you run guard I could imagine it being a little more useful to attach Coteaz to a 20 or 30 man blob with heavy weapons. More bodies, +may the Emperor have mercy on whatever deepstrikes within range of Coteaz's "I've been expecting you..."
Waaaghpower wrote: The inquisitorial warband can take a single Storm Shield, but no more. Kinda sucks, but oh well. (You can also have twelve Acolytes as bodyshields, an Assassin, etc.)
This looks like its the canoptek harvest 'one tomb Spyder' all over again. Personally, as long as the unit entry for the crusaders is titled 'crusaders' then would say it is one unit.
Assuming this is the case what are everyone's thoughts on an inquisitorial henchmen blob? 10 death cults, 10 crusaders, 9 power armoured acolytes, a few daemonhosts/jokearos/ppriests, 1 techpriest, half a dozen Arco flagellants. With an inquisitor with rad grenades. throw in some other imperial characters and that seems to be the workings of a pretty powerful deathstar. It definitely suffers from being slow but can string accross the board...
It's an expensive WS3 S3 T3 I3 5+ blob that can't really kill anything worth talking about and can be shot to death by lasguns. I don't think it would be very good at all. The Demon-Priest thing would be funny, but that's about it.
I'm wondering if there is a Henchman build that justifies either a Land Raider or a Valkyrie to deliver them. They are available via the Acolytes that are the core of the unit... is there a choppy build worth delivering, or are all the best options still shooty?
MacPhail wrote: I'm wondering if there is a Henchman build that justifies either a Land Raider or a Valkyrie to deliver them. They are available via the Acolytes that are the core of the unit... is there a choppy build worth delivering, or are all the best options still shooty?
A Crusader might be viable for delivering a horde of assassins with a priest and some Arco-flagellants for horde whackin'. The problem is that the unit is going to cost upwards of 300 points, the Land Raider is going to cost another 250, and you're not going to be in the range of other deathstars at that level.
New Formation: Inquisitorial Henchman Warband. 1 Inquisitor (including Unique models), 1 Unit of Acolytes, 0-1 Ministorum Priests, 0-1 Crusaders, 0-6 Demonhosts, 0-1 Arco-flagellents, 0-1 Death Cult Assassins, 0-1 Tech-Priest Enginseer, 0-6 Jokearo Weaponsmiths, 0-1 Astropaths. All units except the Inquisitor must form a single Unit. Inquisitor can generate a Warlord Trait even if they are not the Warlord. Can include either a Battle Sister Squad, Grey Knight Terminator Squad or Deathwatch Veteran squad in the formation as per your Inquisitors Ordo.
Do they form a single squad with termies/sororitas/vets?
MacPhail wrote: I'm wondering if there is a Henchman build that justifies either a Land Raider or a Valkyrie to deliver them. They are available via the Acolytes that are the core of the unit... is there a choppy build worth delivering, or are all the best options still shooty?
Inq deathstar with GK Libby rolling for sanctuary and hammerhand might still be good, but sadly now you have taxolytes limiting your numbers.
Take a priest, a xenos grenade-caddie, a GK libby pumped up to max ML rolling on sanctic, three taxolytes (grab some storm shields so they can be gakky more expensive crusaders to save some transport slots) then say 5 DCAs and 4 Crusaders (then what the heck, throw in a daemonhost for the mace troll thing).
Now, if you get hammerhand you have S5 DCAs (and -1 enemy T), if you get sanctuary you have 2++ shield guys (rerollable if in melee with the hymns).
I think that's worth a land raider crusader. and the best part is? That LR Crusader, RAW, counts as having BOTH the Grey Knights AND inquisition factions, because you took it as a dedicated transport to your warband! So GW can just go FAQ themselves on that one.
Automatically Appended Next Post: My other idea for a "fluffy but fun" inquisitorial henchmen squad that might like having a Valk is a large henchmen squad with 3x monkeys and 7x bolter/power armor acolytes in a valk. You have extremely good odds of the whole squad rocking 2+ armor and rending boltguns, that's definitely going to be my "high-tech" Xenos inquisitor henchmen crew.
Slightly more boring, but the best chimera build is probably 2x plasma/power armor, 1x mystic for the option of "hop out for the deep strike" thing.
MacPhail wrote: I'm wondering if there is a Henchman build that justifies either a Land Raider or a Valkyrie to deliver them. They are available via the Acolytes that are the core of the unit... is there a choppy build worth delivering, or are all the best options still shooty?
Inq deathstar with GK Libby rolling for sanctuary and hammerhand might still be good, but sadly now you have taxolytes limiting your numbers.
Take a priest, a xenos grenade-caddie, a GK libby pumped up to max ML rolling on sanctic, three taxolytes (grab some storm shields so they can be gakky more expensive crusaders to save some transport slots) then say 5 DCAs and 4 Crusaders (then what the heck, throw in a daemonhost for the mace troll thing).
Now, if you get hammerhand you have S5 DCAs (and -1 enemy T), if you get sanctuary you have 2++ shield guys (rerollable if in melee with the hymns).
I think that's worth a land raider crusader. and the best part is? That LR Crusader, RAW, counts as having BOTH the Grey Knights AND inquisition factions, because you took it as a dedicated transport to your warband! So GW can just go FAQ themselves on that one.
Automatically Appended Next Post: My other idea for a "fluffy but fun" inquisitorial henchmen squad that might like having a Valk is a large henchmen squad with 3x monkeys and 7x bolter/power armor acolytes in a valk. You have extremely good odds of the whole squad rocking 2+ armor and rending boltguns, that's definitely going to be my "high-tech" Xenos inquisitor henchmen crew.
Slightly more boring, but the best chimera build is probably 2x plasma/power armor, 1x mystic for the option of "hop out for the deep strike" thing.
I like the concept with the Grey Knights Librarian.
the_scotsman wrote: Now, if you get hammerhand you have S5 DCAs (and -1 enemy T), if you get sanctuary you have 2++ shield guys (rerollable if in melee with the hymns).
Sacrilege! If you're doing the mace troll thing then you should have Smash every round on the Priest. Drop a DCA and take another Priest for rerolls. I know that wouldn't make the unit better, but do it anyway. PRIEST-SMASH!
That would actually stop the unit being able to use the land raider, because you'd have to take an Ecclesiarchy detachment from SOB for the extra priest (IIRC the warband is now 0-1 priest)
Plus, you only need smash in the edge case where more attacks with fleshbane isn't better (fighting a model you want to instant death who can't ablate the wound off to a lackey or fighting a vehicle, in which case why would you need re-rolls on saves...?)
For pure fluff purposes, you might consider swapping from Ordo Xenos to Ordo Hereticus to get the Heresy For Dummies relic book (Grants scout, and you can grant hatred to the squad if you want to smash stuff with your priest). Seeing as this looks like a much more Heretic-smashing warband than a techno xenos warband type of a thingy.
the_scotsman wrote: That would actually stop the unit being able to use the land raider, because you'd have to take an Ecclesiarchy detachment from SOB for the extra priest (IIRC the warband is now 0-1 priest)
So, another little conundrum (technically a GK tactics question but related to my death star from earlier)
Your GK libbie has access to 2 interesting relics relating to this death star.
First, you have the Liber Daemonica, which grants an additional power off sanctic. Useful for obvious reasons, you'll get 4/6 powers so super super likely to be rocking hammerhand and/or sanctuary.
However, the new daemonhost shenanigans offer up another option: The cheaper Bone Shard of Solor, which grants the user a 3++ save if within 6" of a daemon (go daemonhost, I choose you!)
The smart person in me says Liber Daemonica is still better and makes the whole 700pt investment more secure. But still, the whole idea of bringing a daemonhost just to ignite your faithful companions into a righteous rage is really, really hilarious.
Inquisitors still have the relic that severly nueters daemons and are an potential orbital barrage and cheap source of ld 10 stubborn that does not shoot his own men.....(And a psyker with divination to boot.)
Slightly more boring, but the best chimera build is probably 2x plasma/power armor, 1x mystic for the option of "hop out for the deep strike" thing.
Boring, maybe, but less work and fewer points at risk. I'm thinking of 2x plasma, 2x Jokaero, some extra bodies, and psybolt ammo on the Chimera. Scout with the Liber, maybe get a range boost from the monkeys, try to grab some cover when the tank gets shot out from under us. Maybe a psyker level for Divination? The points do creep up, though. This would run alongside three Scouting Melta Dominion squads, so hopefully it forces some tough choices for my opponent. What do y'all think?
Slightly more boring, but the best chimera build is probably 2x plasma/power armor, 1x mystic for the option of "hop out for the deep strike" thing.
Boring, maybe, but less work and fewer points at risk. I'm thinking of 2x plasma, 2x Jokaero, some extra bodies, and psybolt ammo on the Chimera. Scout with the Liber, maybe get a range boost from the monkeys, try to grab some cover when the tank gets shot out from under us. Maybe a psyker level for Divination? The points do creep up, though. This would run alongside three Scouting Melta Dominion squads, so hopefully it forces some tough choices for my opponent. What do y'all think?
That was my thought as well for an ordo xenos warband - you'd go bolters/power armor on the bodies for super cheap 10 point models who use all the monkey upgrades relatively well, 2 plasmas in case you get the extra range perk. It's actually a very inexpensive squad now that power armor is so cheap. The Coteaz crew I was envisioning made an effort to spread that obsec as far as it would go.
How are justifling the inquisition henchmen priest taking a sisters relic? He's clearly from inquisition faction. You could join a sisters priest and join him to your wabrand though.
Parchaeus wrote: How are justifling the inquisition henchmen priest taking a sisters relic? He's clearly from inquisition faction. You could join a sisters priest and join him to your wabrand though.
Parchaeus wrote: How are justifling the inquisition henchmen priest taking a sisters relic? He's clearly from inquisition faction. You could join a sisters priest and join him to your wabrand though.
I don't see which relic you're referring to.
There's a Sisters relic that guarantees Priests pass their hymn rolls.
That said, you can still take a Priest without it and just roll.
They are trying to use the Mace of Valan for the flesh bane and armour bane rules if within 6" of a daemon. But it's a sisters relic, and hence can't be taken with an inq faction priest.
Parchaeus wrote: They are trying to use the Mace of Valan for the flesh bane and armour bane rules if within 6" of a daemon. But it's a sisters relic, and hence can't be taken with an inq faction priest.
But the Priest is still a Sisters unit, taken from the Sisters "Codex". There's no listed loss of ability to take his relics, and in fact there's no point where he loses the Sisters faction. Even if he did, he can still take relics from his section of the codex.
Your telling me that this formation is made up of multiple factions? Where does it state that this priest is a sisters faction? You can't just assume he's a sisters priest. He could equally be a IG priest by your logic. He's built into the Inq faction of the book, he's Inq unless specifically stated otherwise.
Parchaeus wrote: Your telling me that this formation is made up of multiple factions? Where does it state that this priest is a sisters faction? You can't just assume he's a sisters priest. He could equally be a IG priest by your logic. He's built into the Inq faction of the book, he's Inq unless specifically stated otherwise.
It explicitly says to use the rules from page 61, which is a Sisters of Battle model, and whose rule page gives explicit access to the Sisters of Battle relics. There is no such thing as an Inquisition Priest by RAW.
Page 118 BRB, para 7 under FACTIONS, all units belong to one of the many factions...
This will often be represented in the unit's army list entry with a symbol, the key for which can be found to the right. (Show a list ilof pictograms of each faction, including the =I= symbol)
So according to this, every model on that page is Inq faction, including the arco, crusader, and DCA.
The only way your getting that Relic Mace, is by adding in a sisters priest from an Adepta Sororitas faction.
Parchaeus wrote: Page 118 BRB, para 7 under FACTIONS, all units belong to one of the many factions...
This will often be represented in the unit's army list entry with a symbol, the key for which can be found to the right. (Show a list ilof pictograms of each faction, including the =I= symbol)
So according to this, every model on that page is Inq faction, including the arco, crusader, and DCA.
The only way your getting that Relic Mace, is by adding in a sisters priest from an Adepta Sororitas faction.
Nnnnnope. The unit is the priest, and the unit's army list entry is on page 61. On page 61, its faction is Sisters of Battle. When taken in an Inquisitorial Warband, it uses the model from page 61.
Also: None of this matters, because the options for the Priest on page 61 also gives it explicit permission to take relics from the Adepta Sororitas list.
First of all, they band into 1 unit, plain and simple, so all models are inq faction. But, you are correct on the priest being able to take relics because he has explicit permission. That's the only reason he can, but it's sufficient. Nice catch.
Automatically Appended Next Post: That being said, the clear winner here is the Litany of Faith relic, not the Mace.
Parchaeus wrote: How are justifling the inquisition henchmen priest taking a sisters relic? He's clearly from inquisition faction. You could join a sisters priest and join him to your wabrand though.
I don't see which relic you're referring to.
There's a Sisters relic that guarantees Priests pass their hymn rolls.
That said, you can still take a Priest without it and just roll.
The entry for the priest in the Inquisition War band formation references the priest in the SoB section of the book, who has the sister's faction, and one of his options is to take sister's relics. It seems legal to me.
Edit: I should also point out you can make an Inquisition Deathstar like before without the acolyte tax. You take an Ecclesiarchy battle conclave with a priest, deathcults and crusaders and then attach a xeno inquisitor with nades. It has everything that made the Inq deathstar decent and more because the priest can take relics. You can also take a tone more deathcults/crusaders if you want to.
Parchaeus wrote: First of all, they band into 1 unit, plain and simple, so all models are inq faction. But, you are correct on the priest being able to take relics because he has explicit permission. That's the only reason he can, but it's sufficient. Nice catch.
Automatically Appended Next Post: That being said, the clear winner here is the Litany of Faith relic, not the Mace.
The reason he can take those relics is because he is from the Sister's faction as well as having permission. The fact that he bands into a multi faction unit does not negate his faction.
Are we not in agreeace that the formation makes a blob? Well the blob is a single unit, and hence subject to page 118 of the rulebook and can only ever be a single faction. I agree he can take a relic, but he is not adepta sororitas faction.
Automatically Appended Next Post: A model can't have two factions.
Parchaeus wrote: Are we not in agreeace that the formation makes a blob? Well the blob is a single unit, and hence subject to page 118 of the rulebook and can only ever be a single faction. I agree he can take a relic, but he is not adepta sororitas faction.
Automatically Appended Next Post: A model can't have two factions.
A model gets its faction from the descriptor next to his unit entry. In this case, the Priest's unit entry describes him as having the Sisters of Battle faction. The formation does NOT change his faction. There is no rule which says that all units in a formation must be the same faction, and the formation itself makes no note of changing the model's faction.
Specifically: The formation makes them all function as a single unit on the board, but each model in the unit still draws its rules (and therefore their faction) from their *Unit Entry*, which is seperate.
It just occurred to me, this is going to make any opponent trying to take advantage of the "Preferred Enemy" special rule have one heck of a time deciding what exactly to align that against.
After all, he only has like, 6 factions to choose from. (Not sure of the exact number, but wasn't in the mood to count. Don't burn me for Heresy!)
Any prefered enemy that I believe is vs the imperium is vs. Space marines specific, maybe something vs IG, but not sure. Otherwise theres enough generic prefered enemy instances out there.
So your telling me that even though this formation forms an single unit (plus the inquisitor ) and even though the rules under faction explicitly state a unit can only have 1 faction that your unit hence has two factions? Right...
Parchaeus wrote: Any prefered enemy that I believe is vs the imperium is vs. Space marines specific, maybe something vs IG, but not sure. Otherwise theres enough generic prefered enemy instances out there.
So your telling me that even though this formation forms an single unit (plus the inquisitor ) and even though the rules under faction explicitly state a unit can only have 1 faction that your unit hence has two factions? Right...
Yes the unit has multiple factions, this is even supported by the faq.
Are you refering to sub units within a unit? Yes, I agree about that. But your trying to tell me that this unit is SoB/Inq. That's not technically legal unless the FAQ states one unit (not sub units) can be multiple factions.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So has anyone ran this yet with Coteaz? I'm curious what you ran it with and/or how wieldly it felt on the table.
MacPhail wrote: I'm wondering if there is a Henchman build that justifies either a Land Raider or a Valkyrie to deliver them. They are available via the Acolytes that are the core of the unit... is there a choppy build worth delivering, or are all the best options still shooty?
Inq deathstar with GK Libby rolling for sanctuary and hammerhand might still be good, but sadly now you have taxolytes limiting your numbers.
Take a priest, a xenos grenade-caddie, a GK libby pumped up to max ML rolling on sanctic, three taxolytes (grab some storm shields so they can be gakky more expensive crusaders to save some transport slots) then say 5 DCAs and 4 Crusaders (then what the heck, throw in a daemonhost for the mace troll thing).
Now, if you get hammerhand you have S5 DCAs (and -1 enemy T), if you get sanctuary you have 2++ shield guys (rerollable if in melee with the hymns).
I think that's worth a land raider crusader. and the best part is? That LR Crusader, RAW, counts as having BOTH the Grey Knights AND inquisition factions, because you took it as a dedicated transport to your warband! So GW can just go FAQ themselves on that one.
Automatically Appended Next Post: My other idea for a "fluffy but fun" inquisitorial henchmen squad that might like having a Valk is a large henchmen squad with 3x monkeys and 7x bolter/power armor acolytes in a valk. You have extremely good odds of the whole squad rocking 2+ armor and rending boltguns, that's definitely going to be my "high-tech" Xenos inquisitor henchmen crew.
Slightly more boring, but the best chimera build is probably 2x plasma/power armor, 1x mystic for the option of "hop out for the deep strike" thing.
I like the concept with the Grey Knights Librarian.
Take brother-captain stern and get those powers everytime. Little more pricy, but more reliable, durable, and better in close combat.
Stern
Xenos inquisitor, rad grenades, psyker
10 crusaders
10 across flagellants
Priest
Astro path
Libby conclave w. Tiggy and thunder hammer libbys
3 tax guys, 1 with melta bomb
That's a scary group there. Puts out 80ish rerolling (50 str 7) attacks on the charge and the Libby's are swinging at str 10). 12 psykers charges more if you go full Libby conclave.
While I love the concept of super powered melee units, I just can't imagine running them over open ground (I'll admit that prior to not long ago I never really ran much in the way of psychic units though, so my thoughts are prone to change.)
Driving across the board at high speeds and depositing a melee horde into thine enemies is extraordinarily appealing though.
Funny thing is, at the place where I play locally, near to no one has seen the Inquisition units. I always throw them for a loop with the equipment I'm pulling out. (It was always fun showing people the rules page for the servo skulls in the previous addition, kind of a look of confusion and partial disbelief.)
Well they are still legal since GW back pedaled themselves on the SoB and Inq books. So now you can use either the "old" books, or this new book, or both, lol. Don't store those skulls on the shelf just yet.
Parchaeus wrote: Well they are still legal since GW back pedaled themselves on the SoB and Inq books. So now you can use either the "old" books, or this new book, or both, lol. Don't store those skulls on the shelf just yet.
You can keep repeating the same mantra and still be wrong. GW never backpedaled on anything.
Considering they press released the book didn't invalidate older books, they updated older ebooks, and they've printed in the imperial agents special character was valid in the older sororitas book. How in the world of tinfoil hat theories do you consider this backpedaling?
Because they first stated this book would replace SoB and GK, then they stated it didn't. How is this NOT back pedeling? And you can pump the brakes on the attitude.
Rightly so, that being said, I think you'll be seeing a full Henchmen Warband with Coteaz. That's gonna be a lot of obsec bodies (30~ strong). Though I'd also consider adding in GK to that since I believe they'd also gain obsec (feel free to correct me on this)
Parchaeus wrote: Because they first stated this book would replace SoB and GK, then they stated it didn't. How is this NOT back pedeling? And you can pump the brakes on the attitude.
"they" ius the operative word. Rumors seem to take on life of their own and heresay is just that, take heart.
Parchaeus wrote: emails via warhammer community page. Proof enough as far as I'm concerned.
I can show you a half dozen emails posted that have been proven to be both fabricated and false.
Remeber the guy who posted how the white dwarf team emailed him and said how the tau decorian allowed all buffs to share and a bunch of other nonesense. Everyone took it as gospel until like a month later when the rules team issued a draft FAQ stating that wasn't how it worked. And than that fuzzy email JPEG was written off as a photoshop. Emails are and have always been worthless.
The only proof I need is the actual rulebook I'm holding in my hand that directly states that he named canonneses can be taken in both the imperial agent and the sisters of battle codecs. Which 100% proves they always intended both books to be valid.
Back on topic Cortez is better.
Hector Rex is solid
The Inquistor warband is good
Demonhosts mixed with the relic mace is decent
Techpriest with canticles are great especially with rerolling plasma cannon blasts
Cheaper acolytes are good
Solomon lok still has a servo skull and is cheap for his upgrades
Mixed crusaders and deathcult assassins are great with hector Rex which grants ob secure and automatically has sanctuary and hammerhand
Can't wait for the new named inqusitor greyfax special abilities.
And we can finally put an inqusitor with greyknights, death watch and SoB.
This was never intended to be the replacement for the sisters dex since Saint Celestine has always been and continues to be valid.
How are you using Hector in regards to this book? Just an allied inquisitor from codex:inquisition? Also, what do you mean about mixed crusader / DCA units?
i would say put acolytes in power armor, which gives them a 2+ armor save, and then give them all bolt guns and make them rending?
or
2+ armor saves and +12'' to gun range. have 24'' melta guns, 36'' multi meltas, 60'' lascannons.
Squad could look like this...
5 power armor acolytes, ccw and laspistol
6 jokero
astropath lvl 1
seems like it would make a good back field obj holder for 280 points. 6x 60" lascannons shots with prescience isn't too bad. Then take the inquisitor and tool him up to go in another squad. The squad will have 6x heavy flamers for over watch as well if something does get too close. this unit is a better version of a devastator squad. is it game breaking? no. but it can be constant frustration and source of fire power that can touch most of the board the entire game.
SpacePuppy wrote: New Deathwatch player here, losing ervo Skulls probably takes away the biggest benefit for DW of taking an Inquisitor, no?
Are they even worth considering now?
It depends on what else they get. I haven't received my copy yet, and rumors/posts have not been that detailed, yet (that I've seen).
Just hang in there. Someone will find a use for them! I mean, I still take plasma pistols sometimes!
To be honest, Inquisitorial Mandate strikes me as awesome. Every Inquisitor gets a warlord trait, even if not your warlord...... being able to get half a dozen rolls of the strategic and tactical objectives tables for a few hundred points gives an enormous mission advantage to an army.
My main complaint is the legion of the damned rules: Aid unlooked for is an awesome command benefit for a deep striking army, but the designers note seems silly:
The Legion of the damned are primarily meant to act as allies to other armies of the imperium forces. However, if your army contains only legion of the damned detachments, we suggest agreeing with your opponent that your units can arrive from reserves on turn 1, rather than from turn 2 onwards
Seriously? I agree thats how I would like to play it, but for the niche case of people wanting a pure legion army, having already gone to the trouble of writing that paragraph out, would it have killed you to make it an actual rule? When codex Legion of the damned got announced, I bought a load because I wanted to do an army of them - and hey, you wouldn't have a codex you couldnt field an army from, right?
Smotejob wrote: i would say put acolytes in power armor, which gives them a 2+ armor save, and then give them all bolt guns and make them rending?
or
2+ armor saves and +12'' to gun range. have 24'' melta guns, 36'' multi meltas, 60'' lascannons.
Squad could look like this...
5 power armor acolytes, ccw and laspistol
6 jokero
astropath lvl 1
seems like it would make a good back field obj holder for 280 points. 6x 60" lascannons shots with prescience isn't too bad. Then take the inquisitor and tool him up to go in another squad. The squad will have 6x heavy flamers for over watch as well if something does get too close. this unit is a better version of a devastator squad. is it game breaking? no. but it can be constant frustration and source of fire power that can touch most of the board the entire game.
I used to run something like this back in the day cept to keep costs down I had them sitting on top of a bastion with the icarus lascannon and coteaz giving divination rerolls to hit which was really useful since the squad is mostly bs3. That reroll helps so damn much with all the points already dumped into them. The bastion was so they would have good LOS and a 4+ cover save on the top floor. Had to use coteaz's 2+ for alot of small arms stuff stuff and Look out sir for most ID or other things that actually got that far.
5 acolytes could go down to like 3 (since they are mostly there for ablative wounds anyway. Rending bolters really aren't going to cut it with so few shots at range) and 2 plasma cannon servators really made it painful for just about anything lol. The 6 lascannons from the monkies did not synch well with the bolters from the acolytes as they would perfer different targets. Tanks vs infantry. The plasma cannons gave them a bit more of a synergy with ability to hurt alot of light tanks and also great vs 2+ armor save things.
Out of curiousity but would a bunch of henchmen in cheap chimeras or razorbacks still work just holding objectives? I know they aren't OBJ sec but at least they'd be really cheap to sit on things. Alternatively I was thinking of just using like 1 man paladins for the same kind of thing. Probably easier to hide out of LOS but I figured that the vehicles could provide some support fire anyway.
Out of curiousity but would a bunch of henchmen in cheap chimeras or razorbacks still work just holding objectives? I know they aren't OBJ sec but at least they'd be really cheap to sit on things. Alternatively I was thinking of just using like 1 man paladins for the same kind of thing. Probably easier to hide out of LOS but I figured that the vehicles could provide some support fire anyway.
I have been doing this for a while with psykers (now astropaths, probably) and 2-5 acolytes, sometimes a mystic. They mount up in a Razorback with psybolted assault cannons (used some extra psycannon bits from the GKSS sprue). One unit of each of these on a flank, and they often pick up at least one quick objective before being wiped out (thus opponent wastes points on overkill) or ignored completely while plinking away with a psychic shriek or handful of bolter shots. Not bad for 80~100pts.
Too bad 1-man paladins aren't a thing anymore. But with this codex, Incinerator-toting 5-man Interceptors and shunting Dreadknights sure are! No HQ tax necessary! Even more of an impact than soladins ever had, IMO.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Remember Coteaz gives ObSec once again if that's something you really want. Though reading the rule, it seem like it would not get granted to the DT, as counter-intuitive as that seemed to me at first.
And while I'm on DTs, are Chimeras now the only vehicle that gets access to psybolt ammunition?
I faced this combination. He attempted to push it forward in a Land Raider. Unfortunately I immobilized it and the mace never got close.
I think one needs some movement shenanigans of some kind to get this to work and if you have to go that far, I'm not sure it will be worth it unless it is somehow used on the defensive side of the ball. such as guarding an objective or something. The Daemon hosts died before it got remotely close, but that was at games end and by then it was decided pretty much anyways.
His comment about it was that he didn't see it being worth the cost to try and make it happen, but he observed that certain Psyker powers might allow it to get into the fray and that at least might be worth looking into?
I was thinking Gate of Infinity perhaps though that seems pretty far from a guarantee. I think there is also a Deathwatch Relic that somehow might help but I have not untangled the rules for whether thats legal or not since I dont own the Deathwatch Codex.
I faced this combination. He attempted to push it forward in a Land Raider. Unfortunately I immobilized it and the mace never got close.
I think one needs some movement shenanigans of some kind to get this to work and if you have to go that far, I'm not sure it will be worth it unless it is somehow used on the defensive side of the ball. such as guarding an objective or something. The Daemon hosts died before it got remotely close, but that was at games end and by then it was decided pretty much anyways.
His comment about it was that he didn't see it being worth the cost to try and make it happen, but he observed that certain Psyker powers might allow it to get into the fray and that at least might be worth looking into?
I was thinking Gate of Infinity perhaps though that seems pretty far from a guarantee. I think there is also a Deathwatch Relic that somehow might help but I have not untangled the rules for whether thats legal or not since I dont own the Deathwatch Codex.
Anywho, reports from the front.
The movement trick that seems most useful is space marine powers from the eletromancy discipline. This disc gives two movement options, the 12 inch move and the "swap with a unit" movement. Make a killy close combat unit of henchmen and teleport them into charge range using electro displacement turn 1
Fragile wrote: That reads to me as the Xenos cannot take Melee weapons. In order to be exclusive, it would have to say either / or.
I mean, he can't take Melee, but I think that's just keeping him the same way as Codex: Inquisition since the melee list is just Power Weapons and Power Fists, which he couldn't take before I don't think.
Either / or would certainly be more explicit, but that doesn't mean this isn't exclusive.
Per the Dictionary:
conjunction
1.
(used to connect words, phrases, or clauses representing alternatives):
books or magazines; to be or not to be.
Strictly speaking, as an example, I could say you could have either a cookie or a beer, a cookie either/or a beer or I could say you can have a cookie or a beer. Under none of these would you be able to have a cookie and a beer. Same goes for the Xenos, the Ranged List and Relics.
I know colloquially people use it differently sometimes. "Welcome to my home, you may enter through the door or the garage" means you can freely use either, but what's telling here is the use of and/or for both the preceding entries and then it's omission from the Xenos. That seems to indicate a change in intent (or sloppy writing).
I chaulk it up to sloppy editing. Personally i cant remember the last time i worried about an inquisitor in melee actually. They have really just been divination and ld 10 batteries along with mindlock servator/ servoskull holders.
I tried a conversion beamer a few times for fun but i really rather just get a few more ablative wounds acolytes for that power sword cost anyway
Who's got the Inquisition EBook in a legit fashion? What all did they change with the Stealth Update? Servo Skulls are gone. Is the Inquisition Detachment gone or changed? Is Coteaz updated with his new ob sec rules?
I'd really like to figure out a way to take more than 1 inquisitors in a detachment.
Cothonian wrote: Found this info on the main Codex: Imperial Agents thread:
Spoiler:
GoonBandito wrote: Codex in hand, ask away. Things I can quickly confirm:
Canonness Veridyan has a dataslate with rules. She gives out a Precision Shot/Precision Strike bubble to Adepta Sororitas units within 12". Otherwise same as a regular Canoness, but comes with a Power Sword, and she costs 85pts. My first thought - sit her near a unit of Retributors for pseudo-Snipers (ie Rending Heavy Bolters with Precision Shots). Incidentally, the cast on my model looks good - only a very minor bubble on the back of the cloak where you'll never see it. It's also got a 2016 copyright for those interested.
All the armies in the book are their own Factions, with all the implications that carries. The Valkyrie in particular is listed as-is from the Astra Militarum codex (with Faction: Aeronautica Imperialis instead). BUT, Acolytes *can* take a Valkyrie as a Dedicated Transport (as well as Battle Sister Rhinos and Grey Knight Land Raiders). Games Workshop just borked their own FAQ as far as I can tell :s
The Canoness still has the Eviscerator and Inferno Pistols as a wargear option on her dataslate for those who were worried.
The Exorcist Missile Launcher is specifically ruled as a Turret Mounted weapon with 360-degree arc of sight.
Condemnor Boltguns and Immolators have the modified FAQ rulings (ie Condemnor Boltguns only need to hit a unit with a Psyker in it to cause Perils, and Immolators have a Fire Point).
Warlord Traits/Relics are unchanged for both Sororitas and Inquisition
Grey Knights Formation (Demonhunter Strike Force) is 1 Troop, 1 Fast Attack, 1 optional Heavy Support and all units can start making Deep Strike reserve rolls from turn 1 as well as Running and Shooting the turn they Deep Strike. Basically its a slightly different Nemesis Strike Force
Acolytes are 3-9 Acolytes with same statline and upgrade options as before (though Carapace and Power Armour got cut in cost by half). Additionally, any Acolyte can be upgraded to a Mystic with the same No Deep Strike Scatter rule as before. The unit can take Chimeras, Soroitas Rhinos, Land Raiders of all 3 types and Valkyries as Dedicated Transports.
Demonhosts are a unit of 1 - and now have the actual Demon rule too! - but are otherwise unchanged.
Edit2: So after looking through the Adepta Sororitas and Inquisition lists, here are the changes I can see from the e-dexs. If I didn't mention it, it didn't change as far as I can see.
Sororitas Command Squad moved to the Elites section
New unit: Arco-flagellants (Elite). 3 Arco-Flagellants for 30pts, can buy up to 7 more. Rhino or Immolator as DT.
New unit: Crusaders (Elite). 2 Crusaders for 30pts, can buy up to 8 more. Rhino or Immolator as DT
New unit: Death Cult Assassins (Elite). 2 DCA's for 30pts, can buy up to 8 more. Rhino or immolator.
New detachment: Ministorum Delegation. 1 HQ (must be a Ministorum Priest) and 1 optional Elite, all units in the detachment gain Shield of Faith.
New detachment: Vestal Task Force. 1 HQ, 2 Troops, 1 Elite, optional 1 HQ, 4 Troops, 2 Elites, 3 Fast Attack, 3 Heavy Support. Once per game all units can re-roll saving throws of 1 until the end of the turn. Warlord can re-roll Walord Trait if Primary Detachment.
New formation: Ecclisarchy Battle Conclave. 1 Ministorum Priest or Uriah Jacobus. 3-10 units in any combination of Arco-flagellants, Crusaders or Death Cult Assassins. All models in the Formation form a single unit, and all models get the Shield of Faith rule.
Immolator: Gained a Fire Point on the top hatch (as per the draft FAQ).
Condemnor Boltgun: Only requires you to hit an enemy unit with a Psyker to cause Perils, rather than having to cause an Unsaved Wound (as per the draft FAQ)
Acts of Faith: They all now last until the End of the Turn, rather than the End of the Phase. This means some slight buffs, eg Battle Sister Squads can now carry their Preferred Enemy Act of Faith from the Shooting Phase into the Assault Phase of the same turn.
Exorcist: Exorcist Missile Launcher clarified to be a turret mounted weapon with a 360-degree arc of sight.
New Tactical Objectives:
* Slay the Heretic: Score 1 VP at the end of your turn if you killed any enemy characters during the turn
* Armour of Contempt: The next time one of your Adepta Sororitas makes a successful Shield of Faith save or Deny the Witch roll, immediately score 1 VP.
* Reclaim Lost Relic: Roll a D6 - Score 1 VP at the end of your turn if you control the objective that corresponds to the D6 result.
* Trust in the Emperor: Score 1 VP at the end of your turn if a unit with the Act of Faith rule destroys an enemy unit. If the unit was under the effects of an Act of Faith, score D3 VPs instead.
* The Blood of Martyrs: Next time one of your Adepta Sororitas characters is slain, score 1 VP. If the model as the Martyrdom rule, score D3 VPs instead.
* A Leap of Faith: Score 1 VP at the end of your turn if you pass at least 1 Act of Faith test during the turn. If you pass 3, score D3 VPs instead. If you pass 6 or more, score D3+3 VPs instead.
Inquisition:
Inquisitors - lost the cheaper power weapon, power fist and plasma pistol options which are now standard price (with the exception of the Ordo Xenos Inquisitor, who can still take 10pt Power Swords but still can't take Power Fists or other Power Weapons).
Inquisitors - Power Armour upgrade reduced to 3pts from 8pts
Inquisitors - lost Servo Skulls
Inquisitors - can now only take the Inquisitorial Relic associated with their Ordos.
Inquisitors - Psyk-Out grenade rules changed to match the updated Grey Knight rules
Ordo Malleus Inquisitors - Can generate from Demonology (Malefic). Does not extend to Coteaz.... (heresy).
Inquisitor Coteaz - Gained the Lord of Formosa special rule. All units in the same detachment as Coteaz are Objective Secured.
Dedicated Transports - Lost Razorbacks and Rhinos, but gained Sororitas Rhinos. Chimeras are still only 55pts, but lost the 5 Fire Points (now work the same as Codex: Astra Militarum ie 2 Fire Points and the Lasgun Arrays rule). Lost the ability to give Inquisitorial Vehicle Upgrades to anything but the Chimera - this means no more Psybolt Land Raider Crusaders. This is because Land Raiders, Sororitas Rhinos and Valkyries come from the Grey Knight, Adepta Sororitas and Aeronautica Imperalis lists respectively, and can only take the Vehicle Upgrades listed in those sections.
Inquisitorial Henchman Warband unit removed.
Psykers Removed (ie no longer an option as a Henchman. Effectively moved to the Adepta Astra Telepathica section, where you can grab Primaris Psykers, Astropaths and Wyrdvane Psykers). Astropaths btw are 25pts for ML1 (Divination and Telepathy), same statline as the Astra Militarum Regimental Advisor. However you can upgrade this one to ML2 for 25pts, give him a Refractor Field for 10pts and also gets a rule where if he manifests a Psychic Power you can re-roll Reserve Rolls in your next turn. Basically a mini Primaris Psyker
Servitors Removed (moved to the Cult Mechanicus section of the book. Plasma Cannon option increased to 15pts from 10pts)
New Unit: Acolytes (Elite). 3 Acolytes for 12pts and can buy up to 9 more for 4pts/model. Same statline and wargear options as previous codex, however the cost of Carapace/Power armour upgrades are cut in half (2 and 5pts respectively). Any Acolyte can be upgraded to a Mystic for 6pts, and gain the same Psychic Beacon rule. Can take Chimeras, Sororitas Rhinos, all 3 Land Raider types or Valkyries as transports.
New Unit: Demonhost (Elite). 1 Demonhost for 10pts. Gains the Demon rule, otherwise identical to previous codex.
New Unit: Jokaero Weaponsmith (Elite). 1 Jokareo Weaponsmith for 35pts. Identical to previous codex.
New Unit: Chimera (Heavy Support). Also lost the 5 fire points, and now works the same as the Astra Militarum one.
New Detachment: Inquisitorial Representative. 1 HQ, optional 3 Elites. One Inquisitor from the formation (including Unique models) can generate a Warlord Trait even if they are not the Warlord.
New Formation: Inquisitorial Henchman Warband. 1 Inquisitor (including Unique models), 1 Unit of Acolytes, 0-1 Ministorum Priests, 0-1 Crusaders, 0-6 Demonhosts, 0-1 Arco-flagellents, 0-1 Death Cult Assassins, 0-1 Tech-Priest Enginseer, 0-6 Jokearo Weaponsmiths, 0-1 Astropaths. All units except the Inquisitor must form a single Unit. Inquisitor can generate a Warlord Trait even if they are not the Warlord. Can include either a Battle Sister Squad, Grey Knight Terminator Squad or Deathwatch Veteran squad in the formation as per your Inquisitors Ordo.
One thing I noticed was that the Acolyte Carapace Armor cost has been cut in half, this might just make properly equipped "Inquisition Storm Troopers" viable. As it currently stands (if I remember correctly, it's been a little while), an Inquisition Storm Trooper with Carapace and Hotshot Lasgun costs 12 points, only two points less than a Scion but without the advantages of BS 4 and deepstrike. The cheaper Acolyte body armor will bring the cost down to around 10 points a model, which is actually very appealing. Finally, I can field proper Inquisitional Storm Troopers!
(Aight I'll admit, still expensive, but definitely more viable for casual games.)
tag8833 wrote: Who's got the Inquisition EBook in a legit fashion? What all did they change with the Stealth Update? Servo Skulls are gone. Is the Inquisition Detachment gone or changed? Is Coteaz updated with his new ob sec rules?
I'd really like to figure out a way to take more than 1 inquisitors in a detachment.
I deleted and re-downloaded the Inquisition e-dex...
-Servo skulls present and unchanged
-Coteaz does not get ob-sec
-Inquisition detachment present and unchanged
tag8833 wrote: Who's got the Inquisition EBook in a legit fashion? What all did they change with the Stealth Update? Servo Skulls are gone. Is the Inquisition Detachment gone or changed? Is Coteaz updated with his new ob sec rules?
I'd really like to figure out a way to take more than 1 inquisitors in a detachment.
I deleted and re-downloaded the Inquisition e-dex...
-Servo skulls present and unchanged
-Coteaz does not get ob-sec
-Inquisition detachment present and unchanged
Thanks. Someone told me they got a stealth update. I guess they were wrong.
I've got an 1850 tourney with 3 max detachments in 10 days, and I was planning on using 2 of those detachments to take 4 inquisitors, and 6 squads of henchmen. I don't want to push it, so I guess I'm switching to 1 inquisitor per detachment to keep it legal which leaves me about 200 points light when it comes to painted models. If I had 6 laser monkeys I'd go that way, but I've only got 3 right now... I guess I could run an extra Scion Command Squad, and a handful of extra acolytes.
(Not sure of the exact number, but wasn't in the mood to count. Don't burn me for Heresy!)
