biggusdoggus wrote: an update regarding the drop ship ... background ... Prodos are taking heavy fire on Facebook for the design of the dropship, which many backers think is too far removed from the original.
....[snip] as for dropship, we will revisit it a bit, in general the movie one has no room for a APC to go inside... so we needed to bulk it a bit (5%) to fit APC in real scale. but as this had so much "prodos dad, gak and in general go F your self" we may just cancel the APC and keep closed ram drop ship with much "movie" scale and less rivets (that would not be there after 3d print anyway, but hey, this is what you get when you show just a half of the story.
So.. Wait, am I getting the wrong story here of did Prodos just hold the APC to ransome because of negative response?
Nah Prodos would never take people's money in advance and then delay and/or change things after the fact...
... oh wait
They still have it for up for preorder even though there is now doubt over the design and availability it should have been pulled straight away if there is any doubt.
No what prodos did was put up something for pre-order they have no intention of supplying and using public response as a reason not to. Good luck getting your money back.
JohnHwangDD wrote: What's odd is that they wasted so much effort Orkifying the Dropship.
I'm wondering if their resin doesn't hold up to being made in thin sheets as would be necessary to do the original dropship, and so they bulked it out - thicker hull and wings, but then it looks silly, so they adorned it with extra bits everywhere to hide the shape?
Either that or they gave it to a WZR sculptor who really really wants a job at Forgeworld and has never seen the movies.
Worryingly due to the number of photos, digital images and blue prints it should have been incredibly easy to design the model. Yet they managed to feth it up. This is kind of what makes me think it's deliberate.
biggusdoggus wrote: I'm wondering if their resin doesn't hold up to being made in thin sheets as would be necessary to do the original dropship, and so they bulked it out
OT: How successful are resin KS? I've had one I'm satisfied with (Impact Miniatures), one which didn't fulfill (Mythical Lairs), one that did but went out of business (Itar's Workshop), and I'm following GameZone (various problems). AvP sounds like it's had some problems (bendy tail or something).
Jeez, did they get it mixed up with the Betty or something?
If they had half a brain, maybe they should have touted it as a different model (as in, maybe as a Cherokee class dropship instead of a Cheyenne class).
Was this one of the KS models or something they were doing separately and were taking preorders for?
I have vague recollections of different looking dropships in the various Dark Horse comics, so if Prodos has access to all the AvP 'stuff' I guess it could be coming from one of those
as if really does seem odd for them to be so far off design wise, why take the real risk it won't be accepted by Fox
(and for all the suspicion that they never actually intend to deliver it that would be a pointless move, it won't bring in huge sums of money and their best financial move is to finish shipping the KS stuff and carry on selling as an active business rather than trying to run off with a pitiful few thousand at most a dogdgy dropship could bring in)
Some of these are now available as preorders at Toy R Us for $22..
T
timd wrote: Some potentially useful toys coming out in April. Diecast APC, Hadley’s Hope Daihotai Tractor and Space Jockey look like they might be close to 28mm scale.
Have been waiting for a model of the dropship for 28mm like everybody else so couldn't wait to see the pics, and what do we get instead of the killer space version of the Apache gunship? Something that looks like a giant jelly bean. Nice moves guys.
Ah bit small then . Ive seen the khurasan one but to be honest from the way I've seen them act online i would put them in the same category as prodos for my future non spending.
So this week will be the 6th week of the 6week delay due to them running out of door bases ...so everyone should have their pledges within a week or so yeah ? Lol
You may well have, without knowing. Jon/ Larry Dunn who runs Khurasan was exposed on TMP for sock puppeting to promote his own product (sleazy but I can shrug at that) and to slag off his competitor's product (massively oversteps the mark for me). I don't have every detail, but can point you to those who do. I've not heard any suggestions that he'll not deliver your stuff, but he's not a person I'd choose to support. Which is a shame as the models are nice, he's just a witch.
I ordered their APC a rew weeks ago & it arrived within 10 days along with some of the marines & the armadillos which I'd ordered.
I am very happy with the service I got from them TBH.
Still got nothing from Prodos.
I (in the UK) finally did receive my first Kickstarter package from Prodos, containing:
- The Kickstarter box, the Kickstarter tiles (including flame templates) and some fruity yellow door stands. Cards loose in rubber bands.
- The expected boxed game miniatures.
Add ons:
KS P Berserker
P Predator Hellhounds x2
A Royal Guard x1
A Facehuggers x7
A Warrior x5
A Eggs (Obj. Marker) x4
A Queen x1
A Predalien x1
M Power Loader x1
M Weyland-Yutani Commandos x5
Add-ons NOT included, still to follow:
M Colonial Marines x5 (Add-on) [supposedly the multi-pose ones)
M Sentry guns x2
M Major Dutch Schaefer
P Cloaked Young Blood x3
M/P Extra bits (3heads, 4 guns)
The packaging was, as reported, terrible. A 5KG boxed game in a cardboard box, fine. Sellotaping a thin cardboard box full of nominally £150+ of resin to the outside of said 5KG cardboard box, and then wrapping the entire thing in a thin bin bag...idiotic. It was squashed flat. I'll have to check for damage, but...why would they do this? They're a resin-centric mail order business!
My first shipment of AvP was packaged fairly decently. I got three copies of the base game each in a tightly fitting cardboard box and another box the same size that held the add-ons that were released. All four of those boxes were in another box which had been wrapped in black shrinkwrap, that I had thought originally was a garbage bag. There was a ding in the outside of the large box, but it didn't transfer inside at all. Over all, I guess I was lucky.
I think its just another sign of their inexperience showing. Its not hard to package things for international shipping, but you need the right materials and someone who knows what they're doing. If they would have hired people with a shipping background they likely wouldn't be having the types of damages that people have been reporting.
After I placed my order for the dropship, I got a notice the day after that my kickstarter pledge order partially shipped! Still haven't received it yet, but the pledge manager says it shipped.
I came across some pictures of a 28mm drop-ship released a few years back. It looks to be more-or-less to scale.
I still think the Prodos version will look better once they physically 3D print it. The digital rendered images looked overly foreshortened or warped by a mock camera lens. I wanted to lock in a price before they figure out what it will really cost to produce.
that (I think) is one of the 1/48 scale resin kits that was manufactured by Scale Model Technologies about a decade ago. Few were made, and the last one seen on Ebay sold for wll over $800 in 2014.
It came in at about 20.5" long. That's about 3" longer than needed to be in scale with the Prodos figures (1/54) and about 6" longer than the dropship Prodos are offering.
Well I got confirmation on salute pick up, apparently I just need to take a print out of my pledge. now to see if my stuff will actually be there and if/how much free stuff I can blag due to being inconvenienced and saving them shipping.
senbei wrote: Does anyone know if Wave 2 is done? I got the boxed game, but none of the add-ones I ordered, that have been released like the queen.
That's odd. Cause I got a bunch of Wave 2 stuff with mine. Queen, Bull, Praetorians.
Thats odd. Because i haven't even got wave 1 yet .......
I'm pretty sure most of the UK backers have got sod all so far. Considering I have a FLGS stocking AvsP about two miles from my house, why they couldn't just tag it into their stock delivery they will never say.
I'm not sure if that references group urination or a drunken brawl but both seem appropriate for the location.
It refers to someone's inability to organise something that should take no effort whatsoever. In this case, a group drinking session inside an establishment where such things can be effortlessly found.
A "piss up" is a drinking session. It has nothing to do with fighting in-and-of-itself (but violence is often an outside thing that happens anyway) or anger issues.
In English (and sometimes Australian) cultures, one can be "on the piss" leading to the condition of being "pissed" and it has nothing whatsoever to do with "being pissed" at someone (which we call "pissed off".).
More example of the UK and US being separated by a common language. :p
now if they'd explained this in this detail before I think people would have been far more understanding (if still annoyed and frustrated that they hadn't got the game)
now if they'd explained this in this detail before I think people would have been far more understanding (if still annoyed and frustrated that they hadn't got the game)
Big time, but didn't they have a community/ customer service "manager"?
He starts with stating 'obviously they had to take down the KS page' and that they provided explanations. He doesn't state they clearly lied with those explanations. The whole 'it was an accident' thing...
"Game was ready in Sep 2014'. Yeah, and even now in April 2016 the rules are a fething mess.
He also claims 'In order to ship we have to have the retail packaging approved', yet none of what KS backers are getting except the boxed game itself is showing up in retail packaging. I wonder if Fox approved shipping without this packaging.
I can't help but wonder if Fox approved the switch to different colored stands for the doors.
Sorry, even after listening to Jarek tap dance I have zero sympathy for them.
Bottom line, they made gakky choices, including the choice to lie to backers. Screw Jarek and Prodos.
So now they're claiming that it actually was an IP/contractual issue that would have invalidated their contract as the reason they had to take down the KS page after over a year of pretending that it wasn't an IP issue? As usual, the Beast of War infomercial team comes to Prodos' rescue to carry some water as well to put out the fires that the mean ignorant backers are starting. I enjoy watching their show (less so over the past year than in prior years) but they really are just shills for whoever wants to be on the show (and who can pay for the special attention). He actually points out backer ignorance to the whole process but gives Prodos a complete pass on their own complete ignorance which is what they're using as an excuse for everything. It wasn't backers' responsibility to lock down costs and processes PRIOR to engaging in thousands of individual contracts; it was Prodos'. I understand that unexpected things come up in kickstarters (whether truly unexpected or because of a lack of due diligence is another story) but the solution to the COMPANY breaking the kickstarter contract with backers is simply to offer FULL refunds. Of course, Wayne doesn't perceive that solution as his only response is that backers simply need to wait (as stores and new customers get their items years before they do).
warboss wrote: So now they're claiming that it wasn't an IP issue that would have invalidated their contract as the reason they had to take down the KS page after over a year of pretending that it wasn't an IP issue? As usual, the Beast of War infomercial team comes to Prodos' rescue to carry some water as well to put out the fires that the mean ignorant backers are starting. I enjoy watching their show (less so over the past year than in prior years) but they really are just shills for whoever wants to be on the show (and who can pay for the special attention).
Hum, this was rather obvious after their gloving review of Arena, including the rulebook which was missing several key rules.
The only thing BoW content I watch are their exclusive Infinity previews, and that's just because they are exclusive.
Yeah, I've been editing in comments and editing out typos but yeah it's been obvious for a while. Their glowing coverage of kickstarted games with tag words of "innovative" and "exciting" for one prominent episode that they never ever mention again even in passing made it obvious to me a while back. I do watch (or more accurately skim for the past year) because they do get interviews on upcoming products that I want to watch (including the Infinity stuff you mentioned).
Did the amount that Dream Pod 9 paid for their "Heavy Gear Week" ever come out? I remember it was mentioned vehemently as "do you know how much they paid?!?!?" by someone supposedly in the know on the forums but I don't recall exactly how much. I don't know if that is the case with all game lines (I suspect Infinity drives alot of traffic to them so they might get it for free).
warboss wrote: Yeah, I've been editing in comments and editing out typos but yeah it's been obvious for a while. Their glowing coverage of kickstarted games with tag words of "innovative" and "exciting" for one prominent episode that they never ever mention again even in passing made it obvious to me a while back. I do watch (or more accurately skim for the past year) because they do get interviews on upcoming products that I want to watch (including the Infinity stuff you mentioned).
Did the amount that Dream Pod 9 paid for their "Heavy Gear Week" ever come out? I remember it was mentioned vehemently as "do you know how much they paid?!?!?" by someone supposedly in the know on the forums but I don't recall exactly how much. I don't know if that is the case with all game lines (I suspect Infinity drives alot of traffic to them so they might get it for free).
I don't think I recall seeing how much DP9 paid, but that's about when I stopped going to DP9's forum and considering selling my stuff, so...
Damn. People still don't have their Kickstarter merchandise?
I mean, being short on cash flow and having to ship the retail copies earlier is one thing, but the game's been out for a whole now. That sucks.
For those who have actually played it, is the game at least any good? I've been a fan of the Aliens franchise for a long time, and the minis are gorgeous. But I honestly have no need for display figures, so the game has to be worth it to pick up.
I'm sickened by the number of Prodos apologists commenting in that Beasts of War interview infomercial - just how gullible do you need to be to keep believing the long line of excuses being spouted out by Prodos?
Even *if* all those excuses are true, at some point it becomes obvious that any competently run company would have had contingency plans in place instead of letting all of the fallout from their bad decisions land squarely onto the KS Backers.
Some of those muppets actually have the gall to say that none of this is Prodos' fault. I doubt they'd be saying that if they were still waiting for their backer pledge 8 months after it's been available at retail, or if they had an ounce of sense.
For those who have actually played it, is the game at least any good? I've been a fan of the Aliens franchise for a long time, and the minis are gorgeous. But I honestly have no need for display figures, so the game has to be worth it to pick up.
No, it's not. I mean, the potential is there but the rulebook is an utter mess and the game has absolutely no balance out the box. Predators are overpowered, marines are usable but tough to get the hang of and Aliens are woefully inferpowered
There is a points system for using the expansion pieces but again, the values may as well have been picked out with a random number generator. There's no play testing.
The only thing going for the game is the quality of the sculpts, which admittedly are superb.
TheWaspinator wrote: The delivery problem really seems insane at this point. How long has it been since delivery started and some people are still missing stuff?
I know that's probably a rhetorical question, but the answer is since May of last year - almost 12 months, and then don't forget that the original planned shipping date for the project was actually the previous May.
Which is that? The two years late (is that all?) or the product to be delivered?
Out of curiosity, does anyone know what the latestest kickstarter boardgame/minis project to actually deliver was? I was thinking that this has to be in the running for worst of all time, another feather in Prodos' cap...
Out of curiosity, does anyone know what the latestest kickstarter boardgame/minis project to actually deliver was? I was thinking that this has to be in the running for worst of all time, another feather in Prodos' cap...
Not sure - it isn't really their lateness which sets Prodos apart though; it's the fact that the KS pledge rewards are being sold at retail before they go to the backers.
Being almost a couple of years late isn't too unusual for gaming kickstarters (Kingdom Death for example, though for very different reasons!). Backers still not receiving anything 8 months after retail customers? That's special! Do you feel special? I know I sure do >__>
Well, I've been told I'm special... like the mentally handicapped that take the short bus... which given that I backed this ks as deeply as I did, kind of proves that point.
Grumpae wrote: Well, I've been told I'm special... like the mentally handicapped that take the short bus... which given that I backed this ks as deeply as I did, kind of proves that point.
Grumpae wrote: Well, I've been told I'm special... like the mentally handicapped that take the short bus... which given that I backed this ks as deeply as I did, kind of proves that point.
I must be special too then.
Come on over to the Robotech thread and feel the special sauce there.
I'm lucky I didn't go in on both KS's as I had planned. The Defiance Debacle, the Robotech Runaround and the Prodos P*ss-off have made me swear off KS's. And that's with even the wonderfully positive Zombicide 2 & 3 KS I went in on. I guess in the end I'm just risk-adverse, but these sort of KS's...
So for those lucky enough to be going along to Salute, these will be available in very stricktly limited numbers - ie they have about 50 sets or something. Once gone, they are gone. Show exclusive, never to be seen again anywhere else at a show or retail.
Yup - they really are selling better warriors than the official retail ones, but only if you happen to be first in queue at Salute.
No doubt they'll be up on Ebay at vastly inflated pricing within hours. What a great way to kick backers in the teeth - make one of the things they'd want the most (other than actually getting the rest of their stuff!) a show exclusive!
Grumpae wrote: The one in the second picture looks like how I feel about this game right now... Shoulders slumped, head down...
I have my stuff and I still feel like that about this game lol.
Me too, not all of it yet, but quite a bit of it anyways. When I first got it I painted all the boxgame minis and "tried" to play a round. I haven't touched any of it at all for weeks now. Last night I started again with some of the bigger ones. But truly I feel very appothetic about the game now. From the highs of the campaign, to the lows of the lies and deciet, to this place I'm in now where I just can't seem to give a gak about it anymore. I still want the rest of what I'm due, but honestly only for completion, not to actually use. I hope that someday I feel better about it, but it has been the biggest let down that I've ever recieved from any product. If only I would have known, I wouldn't have gone in as deep as I did (just over 2k by todays exchange rate). No one to blame but me on this one, I should only have pledged for the base game and a couple of extras. Lesson learned.
Well, I've had the core box for a while now, but none of the KS rewards, or the WeyYu Commandos I tacked on. Honestly half the time I forget I even funded this it been so long since I have heard anything about it. That and presently the box just sits in the closet.
PomWallaby wrote: Prodos can talk about the added expense of shipping in waves but I've still received zero waves. If prodos came out and said to only expect one parcel it'd sound fairly reasonable to me, all things considered. But don't stall and complain to me about how expensive wave shipping is if there isn't the intent to ship in waves.
As jarek said yesterday Kickstarter backers aren't his priority and he doesn't really care how long it takes to fulfil. only offered me 50% off something bought on the day by way of compensation, I declined as they are getting no more of my money.
There were AvP backers up the wazoo and that queue was still going strong at 2.30pm. Jarek was (on the 4 or 5 times I passed by) delving in boxes trying to fulfil pledges and shoppers were trying to buy the AvP stuff from the shelves (plus the very nice Space Crusade stuff and the newly repackaged Warzone) and with the two crowds meeting in the middle it was pretty chaotic.
When the queue had finally died down and I got a chance to talk to Jarek, it seems like things had gone pretty well from a retail point of view and I'm sure it was a big relief for him and dozens of backers that.. well, they didn't have to deal with each other any more. I gather they ran out of the boxed game in the afternoon though so some backers who showed up still left without it.. but my fingers are crossed that Jarek and co will be able to prioritise them when they get back in the office on Monday.
Siygess wrote: I gather they ran out of the boxed game in the afternoon though so some backers who showed up still left without it.. but my fingers are crossed that Jarek and co will be able to prioritise them when they get back in the office on Monday.
Able to prioritize them and willing to prioritize them are very different. If what Unclebadtouch said above is accurate, I suspect Jarek couldn't give two feths about prioritizing the remaining KS backers.
They didn't prioritise those who turned up at UK Expo last year but missed out (though they promised to do so). Quite why that would change now is anybody's guess.
Indeed they did not (I was one of them and I got my wave 1 stuff about 8 weeks ago). But with Prodos the AvP situation is.. fluid and there are no absolutes, even if there should be.
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: As jarek said yesterday Kickstarter backers aren't his priority and he doesn't really care how long it takes to fulfil. only offered me 50% off something bought on the day by way of compensation, I declined as they are getting no more of my money.
Sorry, not sure who you are, but putting words into my mouth is a bit week. I never did had such conversation with anyone, additionally as I was dealing with KSat the shkw only I never offered to anyone 50% discount neither anyone from our team. Not sure what was your goal to post such bs but definitely not cool.
While you are here Jarek, any chance of an update for those of us who still haven't received anything?
My pledge manager is correct and up to date (and has been for some time) but my order is still 'awaiting'. Could you give us a rough delivery date or a ball-park figure as to how many KS orders are still waiting to ship?
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: As jarek said yesterday Kickstarter backers aren't his priority and he doesn't really care how long it takes to fulfil. only offered me 50% off something bought on the day by way of compensation, I declined as they are getting no more of my money.
Sorry, not sure who you are, but putting words into my mouth is a bit week. I never did had such conversation with anyone, additionally as I was dealing with KSat the shkw only I never offered to anyone 50% discount neither anyone from our team. Not sure what was your goal to post such bs but definitely not cool.
The trouble is Jarek, that I'm really not sure you remember what you've said from one day to the next any more.
Back on 18th October, you stated that any backer who collected their pledge from any event would get, in their wave 2, a free extra model (or models) from your range, which would potentially include rare or unreleased models. In addition all backers should have a 25% discount code, and you also promised 5% off for life though never gave details of how on earth you'd make that work.
Out of interest, how many of those who have collected at events and now have their wave 2 have been given such a generous gift? How many of those who picked up at Salute walked away with that something extra? How many did you give a 25% discount code to?
it's a rhetorical question - we've already had plenty state they got no such things.
When you don't follow up on your promises, but choose not to mention such things, perhaps in the hope we will forget, it's hard to believe anything else you say. So with respect, I'm more inclined to believe that "random" guy who is so random that he found the time to post on the avp thread in Dakka and tell us what he heard you say, than you claiming you never said it. You have a history of saying things you probably regret (or don't even remember). That's quite likely why you had to bring the KS page down in the first place - you made promises that you couldn't keep.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
I didn't get a chance to speak to any of the AvP backers *after* they had collected their pledges from the stand, but I do know that (all?) pledges that were posted this year (mine included) had a 25% off card included. So backers ARE getting the aforementioned discount but I can't say if that was true of the people at Salute. But it's entirely feasible they were getting this code and / or extra minis on the day.
The problem is, anyone who picked up their pledge and got what they were expecting / owed is unlikely to have any reason to write about that online. I'm still trawling through the post-Salute blogs (even though I was there myself!) to see if anyone has anything to say on the matter.
Siygess wrote: I didn't get a chance to speak to any of the AvP backers *after* they had collected their pledges from the stand, but I do know that (all?) pledges that were posted this year (mine included) had a 25% off card included. So backers ARE getting the aforementioned discount but I can't say if that was true of the people at Salute. But it's entirely feasible they were getting this code and / or extra minis on the day.
The problem is, anyone who picked up their pledge and got what they were expecting / owed is unlikely to have any reason to write about that online. I'm still trawling through the post-Salute blogs (even though I was there myself!) to see if anyone has anything to say on the matter.
no, not all. I got my wave 2 in December. No discount code. I know of others, and I've read reports from Salute from people who say they got no such things.
I'm not saying they haven't handed it out at all, just that they are inconsistent in doing so. It ought to be a given - packing a wave 2 box, throw in a discount code.
I received a 25% off coupon in my AvP box along with a very nice letter, though I didn't pick mine up at an event, it was mailed.
Just waiting for the rest of my order now. Hope it's soon, we finally got around to having a game yesterday and after getting used to the rules it was very enjoyable.
I didn't get a 25% code with mine as i am yet to get a single figure from my pledge .
And jarek moaning that someone has put words in your mouth is abit rich when we haven't had a update about our pledges for months .....
CURNOW wrote: I didn't get a 25% code with mine as i am yet to get a single figure from my pledge .
And jarek moaning that someone has put words in your mouth is abit rich when we haven't had a update about our pledges for months .....
Damn, I should have picked your pledge up for you while I was at Salute :(
There was an update from Prodos on Facebook yesterday.
Hi all, first off all I would like to say thank you to all backers and customers that visited our stand on Salute. It was great to be able to put faces to names and I really enjoyed chatting to some of you about the future of the AvP line. There are some great ideas out there. I would like to apologize for long queues to our cash and Kickstarter collection point. We really underestimated how busy Salute would be in terms of customers, and to give you an idea, between Michal and I we served 274 individual customers and 68 backers! I think this year we were probably the busiest booth in the place and we weren’t quite prepared for it. To any of you that I didn’t get a chance to talk to, I look forward to chatting next year.
I want to apologise to those of you who travelled to Salute for not having Eggs and Dice at the show. The box with the die, eggs and discount codes were accidentally left in our warehouse, so these will be posted out to you with your next wave.
Customer Service
We recognise that our customer service isn’t where it should be and we’re working on this. Our current customer service department is just 2 people and they are currently dealing with normal day-to-day issues along with Kickstarter queries. We recognise that we can and will do better however the business cannot afford to expand that department at this moment and therefore we are going to streamline the process using the same number of staff using an email distribution software so that one person on their own isn’t handling every email that comes in.
Website and email
We are currently working on a new website with a new contact form which we hope will go live shortly and will help expedite customer queries. We are also in the process of changing servers as we have had our systems act up and identify legitimate emails as spam. The new servers should eliminate this by being more compatible with gmail etc. or so I’m told.
Kickstarter and New Approvals
Kickstarter: A few weeks ago, I was interviewed by the guys at Beasts of War. Here is a link to the interview regarding the current situation with AvP KS fulfillment and what is the plan going forward.
Interview starts at 1h mark, thanks:
http://www.beastsofwar.com/the-weekender/prodos-casts-and-firestorm-taskforce/ I can now confirm some excellent news. We have had approval on the following models and every parcel starting from the 1st May that we ship will include: Young Bloods, Sentry Guns, Predator Female, Sergeant, Linn and Dutch for those backers who ordered them.
Next Transmission
I hope that the next update will be on or around the 30th of April and I’ll update you again on a timescale for KS fulfilment. I know some backers are still awaiting their boxes and we’re working hard to try fulfil these orders as fast as possible.
Prodos out!
Sorry, not sure who you are, but putting words into my mouth is a bit week. I never did had such conversation with anyone, additionally as I was dealing with KSat the shkw only I never offered to anyone 50% discount neither anyone from our team. Not sure what was your goal to post such bs but definitely not cool.
I call BS on this statement.
Lets face it, it's not like we haven't caught you out before now is it? At best it's pure incompetence, at worst outright lies.
they were mentioned briefly in the comments. A backer asked if they were still happening and Jarek confirmed they were (but did not elaborate)
He also said in response to a question that the Wargame rulebook is expected in June (alongside a release of WZR 2.0 rules) He is yet to confirm/deny that that means that wave 3 shipping won't commence until June at the earliest.
When he says he hopes to update us again on the timescale for fulfilment, did I miss the part where he updated us before? Or is the plan still currently end of March?
Access to the AVP Facebook page has apparently now been closed. Queried this with Jarek as it seems to be the only place updates are posted and he has said they will be posted out by the Kickstarter mail system.
This was meant to happen yesterday - full transcript is below:
The more things change, the more they stay the same...
TUE 4:40PM
Jarek: Hi there, thanks for your request to access AvP:ThB FB page, however that page is locked and we are not accepting more requests. Sorry, nothing personal. You are more than welcome to join our official Prodos Forum @ forum.prodosgames.com. As for updates regarding KS, you would receive official update via Ks messenger. Thanks.
Me: Seeing as you've been putting updates out frequently without running them through the kickstarter messenger I sincerely doubt that.
Backers shouldn't have to trawl through dakka and other areas to find out what is going on with their pledges.
Jarek: The KS messenger is the source of all updates, the one which was post out yesterday on the FB will be as well on KS messenger later today, thanks{/quote]
Home from my honeymoon at the weekend, hadn't been online in over a month.
Check on avp status, quel surprise, no change. Getting on for almost 3 years now, and not a bean has arrived.
I am looking to buy a house in the autumn and that means a new address....
So I am pretty sure those of us who have no KS stuff delivered by now are actually never going to see anything.
It's pretty crap, and I realise it's a bit maudlin, but tbh, I just don't care anymore.
I played a game of it when my mates box turned up (2 months ago) and do be it a bit of a hot mess, marines were iffy and aliens were like paper and press just walked through everything.
Sculpts are great but as a game....just no.
Not angry or anything now, just fed up and feel I could have put £160 to better use.
Was going to play a few games of AVP later to celebrate, but then remembered that Prodos still haven't sent me a single piece of the Kickstarter that I paid for two and a half years ago, so I'm just going to look at the "awaiting" status on the pledge manager instead.
Was going to play a few games of AVP later to celebrate, but then remembered that Prodos still haven't sent me a single piece of the Kickstarter that I paid for two and a half years ago, so I'm just going to look at the "awaiting" status on the pledge manager instead.
Maybe you'll get lucky and have the added excitement of seeing your shipping address disappear and pledge manager mysteriously open live!
Oh cool, the Prodos site has the Youngbloods, sentry guns and facehuggers up
No female predator, sarge or other characters though. Glad I didn't bid on the ultra-expensive facehugger escapees during the past two months, I knew waiting would pay off!
Morikun wrote: On one side, a friend of mine at Salute took for me from Jarek himself :
- Pred Youngblood (awesome minis but the blades are too thin (one is broken)
- Sentry Guns (very good)
- Facehuggers (awesome too : I really love the new version !!)
On the other side Jarek has forgot :
- Pred tiles (one more time... despite lots of confirmation mails... like Crisis)
- Pred Berserker...
- Female pred
- Alien Eggs (but it seems to be that Jarek forgot the case in the prodos bunker)
I've emailed him... But no answer...
A this time, I don't received any notification for the left stuffs.
Nevertheless, I won't complaining when I see that soooooo much of bakers didn't received ever the box... -.-'
So, May 2016, officially 2 years late about the official shipping... What about the official wave 3 (and wave 2 and wave 1 for some of us) ?
Serviteur,
Morikun
I honestly wouldn't advise you to believe anything about him "forgetting" various things. The fact is that there have been multiple delays caused by mismanagement and financial issues, forcing Prodos to be very slow when producing new stock, especially stuff to be "given away" to the folks who funded all this ages back but are now considered liabilities because all the money they put forth was spent on hired Limosines and company party champagne a long, long time ago.
You'll only get the female Pred, eggs, etc at roughly the same time Prodos throw those things up for retail sale on their website; since that's the only way they can absorb the "losses" involved in handing out "free copies" to kickstarter backers. As for the extras that are planned to never be released at retail, you'll likely only get those right at the very end of this painfully long road :(
Prodos Games Ltd says:
Morning all
In past 2 weeks, we have not been unable to ship KS parcels out. The issue was with the courrier not taking responsibility for lost parcels which we can’t afford to be held responsible for. This has been addressed and parcels are again being shipped. We look forward to seeing comments on the Facebook page and Prodos forums confirming deleveries received over the next 2 weeks.
Shipping Changes!
Please note that there has been a change to our shipping partners due to the issue mentioned above and because of a significant increase in charges by UPS for international parcels.
Parcels to United States will be now handled by USPS instead of UPS
Canada by Canada Post and
Australia is Auspost,
Expediated shipping
We have had several emails from backers offering to cover additional shipping costs to speed up the shipping of miniatures. We really didn’t want to have this as an option however we are aware that some of you are still waiting for your KS wave 2. Therefore we have considered and are tabling the following OPTION. Note that this is not a requirement and we here at Prodos didn’t want to take this option as we understand that you have already been charged for shipping during KS campaign.
So here’s the detail: If you make a purchase from shop.prodosgames.com we will ensure that your remaining items from the AVP Kickstarter WHICH HAVE BEEN APPROVED, up to and including the Female predator, Dutch and Linn, will be in the post to you within a week (depending on demand).
Just so there’s no confusion, if you purchase a miniature from the online store, we will ensure that your KS items, up to and including the models mentioned above, along with the purchased model(s) will be in the post within 5 working days. If you purchase a pre-order item, your approved KS items will be sent initially with the pre-ordered item following once released.
The minimum purchase(including shipping) to cover your expediated shipping is as follow:
1. Europe – 10 GBP
2. USA – 15 GBP
3. Rest of the world – 20 GBP
For all our KS Backers be sure to use AVPKS code on check out. This will give you an additional 5% on checkout. Also can I ask that you please provide the same email address on the checkout screen that you used for Kickstarter / Pledge manager. If you have moved address, please include the new address but the old KS email address as this is how you can be located on our systems. Again I want to say that this is NOT mandatory however it will allow us to ship faster! Finally can I assure you that ALL Backers will receive their KS rewards, however it may take a bit longer due to current issues.i.e a 35% hike in the cost of shipping.
I just skimmed through the email, but the majority of it sounds like Jarek's usual drivel. This KS is literally the worst of the projects I've backed. Mantic have delivered about 4 Kickstarters in the amount of time it's taken Prodos to do 1.
So this is starting to do the rounds (my only edit is to crop the name of the person who screen shot it). Clock is ticking - will outstanding backers get their stuff before the licence expires?
richred_uk wrote: So this is starting to do the rounds (my only edit is to crop the name of the person who screen shot it). Clock is ticking - will outstanding backers get their stuff before the licence expires?
I like that he still think he's not already as unprofessional as possible.
And I give it, at best, a 50% chance that I will get anything before the licence expires.
The only reason I have not already tried to get them in court is that they have no assets or presence in Canada, so even a win would be pointless.
I've caved and just ordered a figure from the website in order to get the rest of my stuff. I went big on this KS and so only got Wave 1 (apologies to those with nothing) but for some reason totally missed one of the add-ons. So I knew I was going to order it for completeness anyway.
Therefore works out £5 for shipping on top to get everything else owed (well, all that's approved). All in all it felt like like a good compromise to get my stuff. I'll update everyone on how this pans out.
He wouldn't be daft enough to actually post that on Facebook would he........
So now Jarek is asking for a facilitation payment to get our stuff sooner, I didn't think they could get any more dodgy.
If your reading his prodos/Jarek this nonsense needs to stop
-Start working though your backers in a non random list. like I dont know maybe by backer number no one would need to pay you a bribe if they knew where they were in the queue.
-Say how many backers you have left to ship wave 2 too. And ship it to them you said you had the money to do this so just do it.
-Give an actual list of the things that are left to be fully approved and none of this nonsense about all the models are done and it's just packaging.
Next week we'll see a picture of a predator mini holding our other pledge minis hostage... to be released only when a ransom is paid!
I was going to say that Prodos would e-mail us the ransom notes or post small parts if we didn't pay, but that would indicate an ability to communicate or put things in the post.
I just orderd some more aliens i was going to get a set from troll trader anyway so the way i see it if the extra £7.50 ive just paid will put a end to all this bs its a worthy investment especially as ive yet to see a single thing from my pledge
richred_uk wrote: So this is starting to do the rounds (my only edit is to crop the name of the person who screen shot it). Clock is ticking - will outstanding backers get their stuff before the licence expires?
Wow it's almost funny to see him complaining about how terrible Fox have treated them, considering how he's treated KS backers. Pot, kettle much....?
Despite all this, Prodos have won some cred back via the recent update on Demigods Rising / Evolution. However all these things are easily said and not so easily done.
I now get the feeling if I don't hand out more cash, it's back of the queue I stay. Two pledges, Nothing recieved.
I now get the feeling if I don't hand out more cash, it's back of the queue I stay. Two pledges, Nothing recieved.
I suspect it is worse than that. I suspect it is 'If you don't buy more you don't even enter the queue'. Basically I am sure they are holding off shipping any KS stuff at all, with the exception being if you purchase more from them.
Pledge manager is up to date and correct, but still yet to receive anything. With Jarek rocking the licence boat, I really am beginning to wonder if I'll see anything at all.
To those folks taking Prodos up on their "give us mo' money and we'll send your stuff" 'promise', especially those that haven't received anything yet, would you mind letting us know if they do indeed send the rest of your (approved) pledge? I'm reluctant to give the circus any more of my money, but if I can get my (or even some of my) stuff for an extra fiver, then I'll consider that worth it just so I can draw a line under this whole sorry affair.
I have been following this thread since the beginning but I just created this account to finally post.
Late last month without any warning or notification I received a box from Prodos(Ohio, US). I received most of my second and first wave items but a shocking number of items were missing. I also randomly got some extra items.... but that is another story. The game box I received (singular, even though I ordered 2) was the "KS" one and had the silly yellow door bases.
I emailed them asking for replacement parts and models for the missing items. They replied right away saying that they would be sending me replacements asap. Today they sent me a notification that the items had been shipped and a link to a tracking page with a tracking number. Unfortunately the tracking page is clearly some kind polish shipping company and I can't make much out of it but I certainly appreciate the effort since the last package was completely unexpected.
I post this because for all of the negativity Prodos receives and well deserves I did receive most of my items. They are sending things and they are trying to fix some of their problems. Jarek, in his most recent update stated that he looked forward to seeing people post about receiving packages and I respect that. Credit where it is due. I did receive my items, granted nearly 3 years late.
You received some of your items. You seem to be happy with that. Had I only gotten one of 2 boxed games for example, I would not be singing their praises for a partial delivery of items that have been out for quite some time.
I'm glad you're happy with their service though. At least someone (other than Jarek) is.
Funnily enough, I've followed Dakka for years but only joined yesterday to make the post above! I will definately let people know if my website ordered miniature comes with everything else expected.
And I also urge others to post whenever they are getting stuff too. It helps everyone know what is going on.
I went to check their KS page to see when this one ended and when it was supposed to ship - but I forgot they took the page down due to an alleged "IP Dispute".
In other news, my facilitation payment/order is now listed as processing - something they apparently send out a separate email for; figures, that way at least some progress seems to be made.
Anyway, let's see how many weeks that 5 day promise turns into.
Alpharius wrote: I went to check their KS page to see when this one ended and when it was supposed to ship - but I forgot they took the page down due to an alleged "IP Dispute".
It ended 28th November 2013 to ship May 2014 - so 2 years late and despite being one of the very first to back (No. 6) I still have nothing to show for it - mostly I'd say because I ordered some of the wave 3 stuff but it would be nice to get wave 1 it annoys me to read Prodos post about wave 2 ignoring wave 1 when there are plenty that don't even have wave 1 yet.
I'm interested to see how people get on ordering from the store particularly to see if they will ship full boxsets with your order. I'm loath to give them anymore money but if £20 - £25 will get them to ship now I might consider it - I could always get some hounds I guess.
Ok so ordered some xeno included all my details in the order info box when paying . Got confirmation and a email to say my order is being processed but the digital invoice only lists the xenos i ordered and my pledge manager still says awaiting so lets see what happens . Especially as we now have it in writing that they will include all released pledge products so they must have stock and we are now covered buy proper consumer protection laws . I could actually take them to court if it doesn't show with in 28days
CptJake wrote: You received some of your items. You seem to be happy with that. Had I only gotten one of 2 boxed games for example, I would not be singing their praises for a partial delivery of items that have been out for quite some time.
I'm glad you're happy with their service though. At least someone (other than Jarek) is.
I am absolutely not singing their praises or defending anything they have done.
I burst out laughing when I saw the package and the almost completely random items I received. For a while I thought they might have gotten my order mixed up with someone else's and sent me the wrong one.
But like I said.... credit where it is due. They did send me something and they are trying to fix the order. They aren't just completely cheating us out of our money. They might be liars and incredibly incompetent but they *are* sending stuff out. If people don't post when they receive items it can be easy to get the impression that nothing will ever come. It's important to keep a balanced perspective.
Wow it's almost funny to see him complaining about how terrible Fox have treated them, considering how he's treated KS backers. Pot, kettle much....?
Uh, doesn't one beget the other?
No, of course not. Fox being a pain in the ass (assuming that Jarek is being honest, about something) really doesn't beget Prodos/Jarek lying repeatedly to backers and generally being utterly unprofessional in their conduct. At least, in my book anyway.
Will the Prodos kettles and pots get Fox approval? Will they charge over the odds for pre-order kettles and pots that don't really look like proper kettles and pots?
2 xtra squads of marines, one with a flamer, one with a chaingun
2 squads of Alien warriors
2 Pred Aliens
3 Pred Berserkers
1 royal guard
15 face hugger bases
4 eggs
As I said in another thread, I'm happy with the sculpts, but I don't see the reason , and am not happy for the delays. ( They are not that great of sculpts that would warrant this amount of issues.)
As much as I want to badmouth them, call them all sorts of names, etc... I can see the reason for the issues, delays, and the controversy.
From someone outside looking in, I can't point to conspiracy as the issue. It's just unfathomed missing of the glaring point of the shipping issues.
Prodos just at the end of the day does not have a very good shipping and organizational process for the beast that they unleashed with AVP.
Great game stuff, so far, but not really seeing the reason for the flagellation that the shipping issues and delays have inflicted.
YMMV, but badmouthing FOX, when they already have a reputation for donkey cave is unprofessional, and unnecessary. Worry about the issues you can control, and in this case- Its shipping and productions of the game equipment.
Please focus on that, and not on the negativity. You will go farther, and goodwill is catchy.
"Hey, yes we do have some issues, but here is what we can do for you now. we'll keep you informed, and let us know how you like the sculpts.."
Honestly to me- that 25% stuff goes a long way. Thank you for that, BTW.
Grot 6 wrote: rI can see the reason for the issues, delays, and the controversy.
From someone outside looking in, I can't point to conspiracy as the issue. It's just unfathomed missing of the glaring point of the shipping issues.
Prodos just at the end of the day does not have a very good shipping and organizational process for the beast that they unleashed with AVP.
Great game stuff, so far, but not really seeing the reason for the flagellation that the shipping issues and delays have inflicted.
You are sadly mistaken if you think the delays are the reason for the animosity. It is the dishonesty and unprofessionalism. They've lied to us backers, multiple times. And then they've (Jarek mainly) have been pricks towards us backers. Not many of us care too much about 'late'. We hate being treated like gak.
Mostly right.
TBH though, with this now over 2 full years beyond delivery (and having been in retail outlets for at least a year IIRC?) I'll be honest, I'd be pretty fething upset with them over the delay even if they were open, honest and polite as all get out.
Just a quick question guys, wasn't there supposed to be a rules book coming out that would let you play full battles away from the tiles. Thought I'd heard a while ago but then nothing more.
xKillGorex wrote: Just a quick question guys, wasn't there supposed to be a rules book coming out that would let you play full battles away from the tiles. Thought I'd heard a while ago but then nothing more.
Yup, there is still a wargaming rulebook to come. It's hard to be sure what it's status is at the moment as Jarek usually avoids answering questions about it, but he did respond to a recent request to suggest it would be available sometime around June*
So just got confirmation that my pledge is going out with my order should be everything except the extra weapons and head pack and the alt posed marines
CURNOW wrote: So just got confirmation that my pledge is going out with my order should be everything except the extra weapons and head pack and the alt posed marines
Did we hear anything on these ?
Let us know how you go on with your pledge rewards. Good luck!
CURNOW wrote: So just got confirmation that my pledge is going out with my order should be everything except the extra weapons and head pack and the alt posed marines
CURNOW wrote: So just got confirmation that my pledge is going out with my order should be everything except the extra weapons and head pack and the alt posed marines
Did we hear anything on these ?
I put an order and in the comments said I was a Kickstarter and wanted outstanding stuff too. So far I just had the sale confirmation with the item ordered on - how exactly did you get confirmation about the rest of your stuff coming with it? And when did you order? Cheers
CURNOW wrote: So just got confirmation that my pledge is going out with my order should be everything except the extra weapons and head pack and the alt posed marines
Did we hear anything on these ?
I put an order and in the comments said I was a Kickstarter and wanted outstanding stuff too. So far I just had the sale confirmation with the item ordered on - how exactly did you get confirmation about the rest of your stuff coming with it? And when did you order? Cheers
Ordered somewhere sunday evening, got that sale confirmation with the items ordered just then straight away.
Today got an e-mail titled Alien vs Predator Kickstarter Survey. Just lists what they're shipping out now, in this "Wave 1".
Also calc.prodos.co.uk now lists my pledge as "Partially Sent"
Hmmm...I ordered the day of the announcement, followed up with a request for confirmation the next day and still haven't had it confirmed I will get outstanding stuff. I'll chase again...
xKillGorex wrote: Just a quick question guys, wasn't there supposed to be a rules book coming out that would let you play full battles away from the tiles. Thought I'd heard a while ago but then nothing more.
Yup, there is still a wargaming rulebook to come. It's hard to be sure what it's status is at the moment as Jarek usually avoids answering questions about it, but he did respond to a recent request to suggest it would be available sometime around June*
*note - he didn't specify which June !!
Hmm Sod's law I guess, just another question are the eggs going up for retail too or was that just add on packs for funders.
xKillGorex wrote: Just a quick question guys, wasn't there supposed to be a rules book coming out that would let you play full battles away from the tiles. Thought I'd heard a while ago but then nothing more.
Yup, there is still a wargaming rulebook to come. It's hard to be sure what it's status is at the moment as Jarek usually avoids answering questions about it, but he did respond to a recent request to suggest it would be available sometime around June*
*note - he didn't specify which June !!
Hmm Sod's law I guess, just another question are the eggs going up for retail too or was that just add on packs for funders.
They will be eventually. The only model that should be KS exclusive is the Berserker. At present, Prodos have made a commitment not to release anything else to retail until the KS has been delivered. Whether they hold to that is questionable, but for now, they seem to be doing so.
xKillGorex wrote: Just a quick question guys, wasn't there supposed to be a rules book coming out that would let you play full battles away from the tiles. Thought I'd heard a while ago but then nothing more.
Yup, there is still a wargaming rulebook to come. It's hard to be sure what it's status is at the moment as Jarek usually avoids answering questions about it, but he did respond to a recent request to suggest it would be available sometime around June*
*note - he didn't specify which June !!
Hmm Sod's law I guess, just another question are the eggs going up for retail too or was that just add on packs for funders.
They will be eventually. The only model that should be KS exclusive is the Berserker. At present, Prodos have made a commitment not to release anything else to retail until the KS has been delivered. Whether they hold to that is questionable, but for now, they seem to be doing so.
Sentry guns and Young bloods are up for pre order for shipment end of May from firestorm.
xKillGorex wrote: Just a quick question guys, wasn't there supposed to be a rules book coming out that would let you play full battles away from the tiles. Thought I'd heard a while ago but then nothing more.
Yup, there is still a wargaming rulebook to come. It's hard to be sure what it's status is at the moment as Jarek usually avoids answering questions about it, but he did respond to a recent request to suggest it would be available sometime around June*
*note - he didn't specify which June !!
Hmm Sod's law I guess, just another question are the eggs going up for retail too or was that just add on packs for funders.
They will be eventually. The only model that should be KS exclusive is the Berserker. At present, Prodos have made a commitment not to release anything else to retail until the KS has been delivered. Whether they hold to that is questionable, but for now, they seem to be doing so.
Sentry guns and Young bloods are up for pre order for shipment end of May from firestorm.
So that lasted long.....
As indeed they are on Prodos' site (stated release date 29/04 but they are still listed as pre-order)
My bet is Firestorm have been lead to believe they'll be able to get stock by then. That would imply that Prodos think they'll have completed wave 2 shipping by then as well. 3 weeks to ship circa 500 parcels (probably less since that figure is from an earlier update). I don't for one second believe they'll meet the timescale since they've missed every single other self imposed timescale in the past 2 years, but that's how I read their intention right now.
What will be interesting to see is what happens when they get to the end of May and haven't completed wave 2 - will firestorm suddenly have stock, or will the pre-order be delayed (as it should be). Time will tell.
Wow it's almost funny to see him complaining about how terrible Fox have treated them, considering how he's treated KS backers. Pot, kettle much....?
Uh, doesn't one beget the other?
No, of course not. Fox being a pain in the ass (assuming that Jarek is being honest, about something) really doesn't beget Prodos/Jarek lying repeatedly to backers and generally being utterly unprofessional in their conduct. At least, in my book anyway.
Let me just give you a scenario.
A company (lets call them Brodos) sends production samples to a movie studio. Studio loves them, says they look great, can't wait to see the finished project, should have the okay in a month. Brodos begins producing items with an expected ship date in two months (give themselves a bit of wiggle room). A month goes by, and the studio still hasn't approved everything, but states that studio review-bots 1 and 2 saw no issues, so review-bot 3 shouldn't either. No worries, all is still happy.
Then review-bot 3 doesn't even bother to get his job done until well after the deadline. Brodos has to change their delivery date. Review-bot 3 decides that TMSTUDIOS2015LLCBBQWTF should be on all models, resin and plastic, despite the models having already been produced, packaged, and ready to go. Brodos is forced, by contract, to not only SHRED all product already produced and to change the ship dates (possibly several times), but they now have to take down the Kickstarter because every photo/model/page doesn't say TMSTUDIOS2015LLCBBQWTF. Brodos also, by contract, can't reveal any of this information, because they will be seen in 'bad standing' in their licensing agreement.
The owner of Brodos is frustrated, and lashes out at fans and backers when asked to provide an update for the 56th time/being told he is lying because he has to keep changing dates/delivery options/model details (all at the behest of the studio and/or production realities and money). Is this the right move? No, of course not. Is it understandable, surely. Does that make it acceptable? No, not in the least bit.
Does any of this make the wait for product easier or should it quell the backer anger? Doubtful, and it shouldn't. Just try to keep some perspective on the situation.
Wow it's almost funny to see him complaining about how terrible Fox have treated them, considering how he's treated KS backers. Pot, kettle much....?
Uh, doesn't one beget the other?
No, of course not. Fox being a pain in the ass (assuming that Jarek is being honest, about something) really doesn't beget Prodos/Jarek lying repeatedly to backers and generally being utterly unprofessional in their conduct. At least, in my book anyway.
Let me just give you a scenario.
A company (lets call them Brodos) sends production samples to a movie studio. Studio loves them, says they look great, can't wait to see the finished project, should have the okay in a month. Brodos begins producing items with an expected ship date in two months (give themselves a bit of wiggle room). A month goes by, and the studio still hasn't approved everything, but states that studio review-bots 1 and 2 saw no issues, so review-bot 3 shouldn't either. No worries, all is still happy.
Then review-bot 3 doesn't even bother to get his job done until well after the deadline. Brodos has to change their delivery date. Review-bot 3 decides that TMSTUDIOS2015LLCBBQWTF should be on all models, resin and plastic, despite the models having already been produced, packaged, and ready to go. Brodos is forced, by contract, to not only SHRED all product already produced and to change the ship dates (possibly several times), but they now have to take down the Kickstarter because every photo/model/page doesn't say TMSTUDIOS2015LLCBBQWTF. Brodos also, by contract, can't reveal any of this information, because they will be seen in 'bad standing' in their licensing agreement.
The owner of Brodos is frustrated, and lashes out at fans and backers when asked to provide an update for the 56th time/being told he is lying because he has to keep changing dates/delivery options/model details (all at the behest of the studio and/or production realities and money). Is this the right move? No, of course not. Is it understandable, surely. Does that make it acceptable? No, not in the least bit.
Does any of this make the wait for product easier or should it quell the backer anger? Doubtful, and it shouldn't. Just try to keep some perspective on the situation.
In that situation isn't it a poor business decision to proceed with production without having the final approvals?
Additionally, isn't it a poor business decision to run a crowdfunding campaign without having any products completed or approvals received?
Regardless of Fox's (possible) role in the actual delays this product has been mismanaged from the very beginning.
It almost seems like Prodos got the license from Fox and then were like "Let's get some money from crowdfunding and then make a game!", when they should have been like "Let's make a game and then crowdfund it!"
Wow it's almost funny to see him complaining about how terrible Fox have treated them, considering how he's treated KS backers. Pot, kettle much....?
Uh, doesn't one beget the other?
No, of course not. Fox being a pain in the ass (assuming that Jarek is being honest, about something) really doesn't beget Prodos/Jarek lying repeatedly to backers and generally being utterly unprofessional in their conduct. At least, in my book anyway.
Let me just give you a scenario.
A company (lets call them Brodos) sends production samples to a movie studio. Studio loves them, says they look great, can't wait to see the finished project, should have the okay in a month. Brodos begins producing items with an expected ship date in two months (give themselves a bit of wiggle room). A month goes by, and the studio still hasn't approved everything, but states that studio review-bots 1 and 2 saw no issues, so review-bot 3 shouldn't either. No worries, all is still happy.
Then review-bot 3 doesn't even bother to get his job done until well after the deadline. Brodos has to change their delivery date. Review-bot 3 decides that TMSTUDIOS2015LLCBBQWTF should be on all models, resin and plastic, despite the models having already been produced, packaged, and ready to go. Brodos is forced, by contract, to not only SHRED all product already produced and to change the ship dates (possibly several times), but they now have to take down the Kickstarter because every photo/model/page doesn't say TMSTUDIOS2015LLCBBQWTF. Brodos also, by contract, can't reveal any of this information, because they will be seen in 'bad standing' in their licensing agreement.
The owner of Brodos is frustrated, and lashes out at fans and backers when asked to provide an update for the 56th time/being told he is lying because he has to keep changing dates/delivery options/model details (all at the behest of the studio and/or production realities and money). Is this the right move? No, of course not. Is it understandable, surely. Does that make it acceptable? No, not in the least bit.
Does any of this make the wait for product easier or should it quell the backer anger? Doubtful, and it shouldn't. Just try to keep some perspective on the situation.
All of that I could understand, it's the "hey guys were totally sending your stuff out everything's fine, whoops we didn't send stuff out and there were actually a crap tonne of problems, but now we really did send your stuff, whoops no we didn't' ah well feth off" I'm tired of.
In that situation isn't it a poor business decision to proceed with production without having the final approvals?
Additionally, isn't it a poor business decision to run a crowdfunding campaign without having any products completed or approvals received?
Regardless of Fox's (possible) role in the actual delays this product has been mismanaged from the very beginning.
It almost seems like Prodos got the license from Fox and then were like "Let's get some money from crowdfunding and then make a game!", when they should have been like "Let's make a game and then crowdfund it!"
Proceeding without approval is a risk, surely. But poor business, I don't agree. If you consider how long most licensing agreements last, if you were to wait for all specific approvals (nevermind the fact that there are levels, such as pre-approval, primary approval, production approval etc), you would have sunk a lot of money into a property that you may only be able to sell for a year or two.
Your second point sounds like a glorified pre-order, but there were some models done before the kickstarter was made live. And again, levels of approval. Not every company has the money to totally create a game before it goes live on kickstarter.
The owner of Brodos is frustrated, and lashes out at fans and backers when asked to provide an update for the 56th time/being told he is lying because he has to keep changing dates/delivery options/model details (all at the behest of the studio and/or production realities and money). Is this the right move? No, of course not. Is it understandable, surely. Does that make it acceptable? No, not in the least bit.
Lets be clear. Jarek and other Prodos members have straight up lied to us. About things they did not have to lie about. Fox did not make them do so. Backers did not make them do so.
Wow it's almost funny to see him complaining about how terrible Fox have treated them, considering how he's treated KS backers. Pot, kettle much....?
Uh, doesn't one beget the other?
No, of course not. Fox being a pain in the ass (assuming that Jarek is being honest, about something) really doesn't beget Prodos/Jarek lying repeatedly to backers and generally being utterly unprofessional in their conduct. At least, in my book anyway.
Let me just give you a scenario.
A company (lets call them Brodos) sends production samples to a movie studio. Studio loves them, says they look great, can't wait to see the finished project, should have the okay in a month. Brodos begins producing items with an expected ship date in two months (give themselves a bit of wiggle room). A month goes by, and the studio still hasn't approved everything, but states that studio review-bots 1 and 2 saw no issues, so review-bot 3 shouldn't either. No worries, all is still happy.
Then review-bot 3 doesn't even bother to get his job done until well after the deadline. Brodos has to change their delivery date. Review-bot 3 decides that TMSTUDIOS2015LLCBBQWTF should be on all models, resin and plastic, despite the models having already been produced, packaged, and ready to go. Brodos is forced, by contract, to not only SHRED all product already produced and to change the ship dates (possibly several times), but they now have to take down the Kickstarter because every photo/model/page doesn't say TMSTUDIOS2015LLCBBQWTF. Brodos also, by contract, can't reveal any of this information, because they will be seen in 'bad standing' in their licensing agreement.
The owner of Brodos is frustrated, and lashes out at fans and backers when asked to provide an update for the 56th time/being told he is lying because he has to keep changing dates/delivery options/model details (all at the behest of the studio and/or production realities and money). Is this the right move? No, of course not. Is it understandable, surely. Does that make it acceptable? No, not in the least bit.
Does any of this make the wait for product easier or should it quell the backer anger? Doubtful, and it shouldn't. Just try to keep some perspective on the situation.
All of that I could understand, it's the "hey guys were totally sending your stuff out everything's fine, whoops we didn't send stuff out and there were actually a crap tonne of problems, but now we really did send your stuff, whoops no we didn't' ah well feth off" I'm tired of.
Occams razor .........im going with jareck telling porky pies to cover his bum
Quick question (asking for a reminder) - are the alien eggs a KS exclusive? I ask because if so that seems like a really daft decision, since eggs are one thing that people would really buy lots of in order to recreate hive scenes.
Casbyness wrote: Quick question (asking for a reminder) - are the alien eggs a KS exclusive? I ask because if so that seems like a really daft decision, since eggs are one thing that people would really buy lots of in order to recreate hive scenes.
No. The only exclusive was the Berserker Predator.
###Transmission starts###
Good morning all,
First off all, we, at Prodos, would like to say thank you for support over the last week. We have been working around the clock and have pulled family members and friends in to meet the deadline i set last week as part of the expedited shipping offer.
We are delighted to say that over the course of the week(between 9th and 13th of May)., a total of 215 backers participated in the offer. From that we have shipped 155 parcels out. Orders placed on Thursday and Friday are currently sitting in our warehouse floor to be shipped out Mondy and Tuesday morning so we are still on schedule to get these shipped out within the 5 day timeframe we set ourselves.
Additionally 41 parcels where sent out to backers that have not taken the part in the deal. This means that we had a total of 196 parcels leave our offices over the last week with another 60 being shipped out between Monday and Tuesday.
Each of you should receive a tracking number, one from us, followed by another one from the courier company in your country. USA/Canadian and Australian parcels are shipped by Poczta Polska and then transferred to your local courier company as per the previous update.
Shipping cost explained.
Based on feedback received ,we would like to explain the issue with the shipping costs a bit. AvP kickstarter ran in 2013 and at that time KS had no means to update shipping costs therefore we had to put in a flat rate. Basedon our calculations, at the time, for we estimated that the game would weigh in at a not inconsiderable, 2.3 kg in weight. The 10GBP we estimated wasn’t enough to cover that on it’s own but at the time we accepted that the cost of shipping would need to be subsidised from profits to a small degree. However as you know, the game ended up weighting in at a monstrous 4kg in weight (you who have carried these boxes any distance can attest to the weight) due to quality concerns in relation to the thinner box and components that time.
As you can see on attached screenshot, to ship a parcel to USA for example, using the cheapest track solution, costs 280 PLN which equates to roughly 71 USD, and this doubles for Australia.I know some of you won’t care in relation to this but we’re being as transparent as possible and taking on board your criticism and feedback.
With this in mind, we’re aware that some people have expressed annoyance at the THB page and we’re now looking to sort this out. We have decided to close down the current THB facebook page as of on the 29th May, and create 2 others. One for Kickstarter backers only,which will be used for KS updates and to give us feedback, and a second page for the community as a whole to discuss the game, rules, scenarios etc.
See here a link to the KS backers group : https://www.facebook.com/groups/1002238266528833/ This group is closed to the public, so if you’re looking to access it, i would ask that you use your real first and surname on FB for verification.
Separately, here is the link to new group, where you can share anything else AvP related. https://www.facebook.com/groups/1027030660685651/ Finally, for those of you who have not yet taken advantage of the expedited shipping to get your KS pledge up to and including the wave 2 releases, this offer remains open. To you who have purchased from our online store, we look forward to seeing these miniatures on the facebook pages soon.
####Transmission ends.#####
Hi there, a quick announcement to our German backers.
Prodos Games would like to announce, that our Kickstarter backers will be able to collect their AvP pledges at RPC Cologne 28th-29th May, 2016 at Ulisses Spiele GmbH stand.
If you will attend RPC convention and would like to pick up your AvP stuff, please email Prodos at
with a subject "RPC AvP pledge" until May 16th.
Please make sure your email will contain your KS pledge number or your email address, which was used while backing AvP stuff. Don't forget to have your IDs to confirm your identity!
Our Crusaders will be more than happy to hand over available AvP add-ons, base game and other KS items.
Ulisses Spiele GmbH will also have in sales at RCP a limited number of Alternative Alien Warriors (shows only models). Thanks.
Must be something wrong with Prodos - two messages / updates in two days !
Bolognesus wrote: I placed my order on Sunday the 8th. Order confirmed Mon 9. No tracking code received whatsoever.
IOW, Jarek is telling a porky again?
As someone who has ordered from Prodos several times, just butting in here to say that each time I've been sent something they give me a link to a Polish courier service after the item is dispatched, but the link never actually works until much later when the parcel has either arrived or is just about to. For some reason, that's when I get a further message stating that the order has been "dispatched" and a proper quoted tracking number that can be searched for appears in order to see the parcel's journey details.
No idea why they operate like this, but just mentioning it since lack of a real tracking number isn't anything to worry about.
Free items:
A Royal Guard x1 1, KS P Berserker 1, AVP Game (Box) 2, Facehuggers x8 2
So seems you won't be getting yours for a while longer.
(Then again, chances are neither am I; despite excuses being made for Prodos once again posting one lie after the other, still no tracking here either.)
Why do I get the feeling that the real purpose of the closed is Facebook group is to hide legitimate ongoing criticism from the public while simultaneously having a reason to delete "off topic" ks complaints about the same products from the general public page?
So, no surprise here: they've mostly confirmed they didn't actually ship to me anywhere near when, according to that last KS message, they should have.
Of course, even this 'shipping notification' still doesn't contain the promised tracking number.
CURNOW wrote: Quick question. Does anyone know how the warzone humans like the blood berrets scale up to the colonial marines ?
Not sure if it would help since I don't have the Blood Berrets, but I do have Mishima Crimson Devils, Brotherhood Valkyries and Troopers, and Cybertronic Armoured Chasseurs. I could get comparisons with any of those if you wanted.
For anyone wondering about the confusing shipping notices, I ordered some additional Aliens last year and asked to have my remaining KS items (at least what was approved at the time) shipped with them. The notice I received only mentioned the purchased items, but I did get everything when the parcel arrived.
Update - I took advantage of the offer to buy an item online & get the rest of your stuff posted. I did this on the first day of the announcement. I'm UK based and I got my stuff today.
It is all there, but crucially, they also included the Predalien that was missing from my Wave 1. So if you are missing anything be sure to mention in the comments section when you order something online. And for some reason I got yet another set of Predator ship tiles!
So basically, they made good on that promise at least and I'm up to date with all approved stuff. We all know the critisisms, so begrudgingly I do have to say that (as always) the miniatures themselves are lovely.
FYI I got my original shipping notice that listed everything I was getting very quickly. Then in the last 5/6 days I got almost daily tracking notices. Although the URL shows the English option they were always in Polish and I still have no clue what they were saying as they all seemed identical, nothing to show progress or anything. Just so people know what to expect!
Same boat as you mate ordered on the day they said about it and its just come through the door 10mins ago all of the stuff thats been released so far is there in plastic bags and the extra xenos i ordered to cover postage were in retail packaging.
The updates on the polish tracking looking the same were because they just said arived and scanned and left and scanned on the right hand column was the locations.
Also placed an order so I could get my wave 2 stuff and got a list of stuff that I will be getting in a separate email with the subject: "Alien vs Predator Kickstarter Survey". This is in addition to two other emails about the stuff I just ordered.
Wow, I actually was going to ask how that was progressing. This looks a lot closer to the movie, but the other wouldn't have been a bad model if they wanted something other than a Cheyanne.
Talking of progress, has anything been said about the cloaked versions of predators? I remember them saying about prototype problems a loooong time ago but have they been mentioned at all since?
Lol, am I the only one in the UK without anything now?
(Not even a sniff at Wave 1)
A lot of familiar faces here now seem to have recieved something. Sad state of affairs if I finally end up collecting "wave 1" from UK expo 12 months later. That's a record breaking queue.
PomWallaby wrote: Lol, am I the only one in the UK without anything now?
(Not even a sniff at Wave 1)
A lot of familiar faces here now seem to have recieved something. Sad state of affairs if I finally end up collecting "wave 1" from UK expo 12 months later. That's a record breaking queue.
It really does look like unless your willing to buy something to cover postage then you will be at the back of the que . I really wish they had been more honest 9mths ago when i offered to cover the additional costs for mine and was told it wasn't a issue .
Im still due 30 mulipart marines 2x sets of arms and heads and im hoping they are ok'd soon .
Did we ever hear anything about the tribute special character model ?
Not happening, which is really quite sad. IIRC there was some info related to it hidden in an update some time back that boiled down to Prodos not being allowed to make new characters, with that model being considered a "named" character.
Who can speak to the veracity of any of that, though.
PomWallaby wrote: Lol, am I the only one in the UK without anything now?
(Not even a sniff at Wave 1)
A lot of familiar faces here now seem to have recieved something. Sad state of affairs if I finally end up collecting "wave 1" from UK expo 12 months later. That's a record breaking queue.
I haven't received anything at all yet.
I'm seriously considering ordering something else, just to get my items sent out. For those of you that have received stuff this way, how did you let them know you were also a backer, or did it link the names automatically?
When you make an order online there is a comment box so I just put it there and said I was expecting all outstanding item to also be sent! To be safe add your backer number or backer email if different to the one you are ordering with. Good luck!
Im waiting it out. I dont mind placing an order to get my stuff, but I dont see the point in doing so when there are still a few outstanding items that would just need to be mailed out in a later wave. would rather have everything at once rather than have to wait an additional 6 months for them to ship wave 3 or 4 or whatever
CthulhuPunk_Mike wrote: When you make an order online there is a comment box so I just put it there and said I was expecting all outstanding item to also be sent! To be safe add your backer number or backer email if different to the one you are ordering with. Good luck!
From the May 8th message, there is a code to use during checkout:
"For all our KS Backers be sure to use AVPKS code on check out. This will give you an additional 5% on checkout. Also can I ask that you please provide the same email address on the checkout screen that you used for Kickstarter / Pledge manager. If you have moved address, please include the new address but the old KS email address as this is how you can be located on our systems. Again I want to say that this is NOT mandatory however it will allow us to ship faster! Finally can I assure you that ALL Backers will receive their KS rewards, however it may take a bit longer due to current issues.i.e a 35% hike in the cost of shipping."
CthulhuPunk_Mike wrote: When you make an order online there is a comment box so I just put it there and said I was expecting all outstanding item to also be sent! To be safe add your backer number or backer email if different to the one you are ordering with. Good luck!
From the May 8th message, there is a code to use during checkout:
"For all our KS Backers be sure to use AVPKS code on check out. This will give you an additional 5% on checkout. Also can I ask that you please provide the same email address on the checkout screen that you used for Kickstarter / Pledge manager. If you have moved address, please include the new address but the old KS email address as this is how you can be located on our systems. Again I want to say that this is NOT mandatory however it will allow us to ship faster! Finally can I assure you that ALL Backers will receive their KS rewards, however it may take a bit longer due to current issues.i.e a 35% hike in the cost of shipping."
Yikes! Yes, sorry, totally forgot about the code. I was overly concerned about the comments as it's a chance to ask for the stuff that wasn't posted as promised Wave 1, ask for replacements or missing parts etc. Thanks for reminding about the code :-)
The code isn't necessary I forgot it but I'd put In a comment and used the same email address so they were able to match it. I just paid 75p more than I needed to.
timd wrote: Also placed an order so I could get my wave 2 stuff and got a list of stuff that I will be getting in a separate email with the subject: "Alien vs Predator Kickstarter Survey". This is in addition to two other emails about the stuff I just ordered.
T
Looks like mine has shipped, although there is no tracking number.
"HI TIM ,
YOUR ORDER HAS BEEN SHIPPED
ORDER NRQBNFF - SHIPPED
Your order with the reference NRQBNFF has been shipped.
Thank you for shopping with Prodos Games!"
and today we learn that Prodos, having insisted during the AvP campaign that they would never run another KS, have gone back on that statement.
They've created a new company called Archon which is wholly owned by Prodos, transferred their Unicast technology to it (asset stripping the old company?) and launch LOAD on KS. They even pretended early on to have an NDA in place and tried not to admit who was behind the project! I wonder why they felt the need to do that?
biggusdoggus wrote: They've created a new company called Archon which is wholly owned by Prodos, transferred their Unicast technology to it (asset stripping the old company?) and launch LOAD on KS. They even pretended early on to have an NDA in place and tried not to admit who was behind the project! I wonder why they felt the need to do that?
Archon has always existed although I thought it was a different name, it is not a new company. This was miniature casting, sculpting, 3d printing side of Prodos. It was always separate and even brought up at some point when Prodos discussed cash flow issues 1-2 years back (can't remember when). One of the options was for Prodos to declare bankruptcy or dissolve, something along those lines but focus on their manufacturing. This is one of the reasons that side of the business has been handled differently.
biggusdoggus wrote: They've created a new company called Archon which is wholly owned by Prodos, transferred their Unicast technology to it (asset stripping the old company?) and launch LOAD on KS. They even pretended early on to have an NDA in place and tried not to admit who was behind the project! I wonder why they felt the need to do that?
They didn't pretend there was a NDA. They just said they would announce the manufacturer later. Backers assumed there was a NDA.
Bull crap. They clearly implied there was an NDA which prevented them from giving info.
Since Archon is based in Poland, we hired a company CritOnHitGames from United States, run by Mihajlo Vlaskovic, to provide PR services of being face of our company on KS, and signed NDA with it until LOAD project is complete. That NDA is now closed.
Unless you are stating that Archon is also in charge of CritOnHitGames, there was no NDA with Prodos or Archon. It was with the US PR company, which if you look at the comments is why this campaign at least PR wise has been handled decently.
Since Archon is based in Poland, we hired a company CritOnHitGames from United States, run by Mihajlo Vlaskovic, to provide PR services of being face of our company on KS, and signed NDA with it until LOAD project is complete. That NDA is now closed.
Unless you are stating that Archon is also in charge of CritOnHitGames, there was no NDA with Prodos or Archon. It was with the US PR company, which if you look at the comments is why this campaign at least PR wise has been handled decently.
PR was handled decently during the AVP campaign as well by Prodos... it's only when it comes to making good on those promises do the PR issues come up.
warboss wrote: PR was handled decently during the AVP campaign as well by Prodos... it's only when it comes to making good on those promises do the PR issues come up.
I would beg to differ on that both during and after the campaign, PR was not handled well. Hype was handled well and overextending was done well. When tough questions came up, emotions tend to flare up. Although they believe they are "explaining themselves" and thus communicating, it comes off more as excuses and finger pointing. They actually have needed and need someone not associated with them to deal with their public facing discussions instead of people are emotional vested as they easily get goaded into confrontations and cave into it. That has always been there even before it came time for delivering on their promises.
So it's an old company. It's still Prodos by another name, and that still means their claim that they would never ever run another KS was yet another lie.
This KS is definitely one to watch with a bucket of popcorn. They've already gone out of their way to not let backers know who they are and only fessed up when people yelled at them on BGG, and released a questionable ruleset that's had to be torn down again, and they aren't even half way through their KS, let alone moved on to production and fulfilment (which is unlikely to go well if past experience is anything to go by)
There's no doubt this company creates good models, but past that I wouldn't trust them to sit the right way on a lavatory.
There is a tangled web indeed of names associated with troubled Kickstarters. And to correct a BGG post there, Niles isn't 30 minutes away from Chicago but rather a *VERY* Polish suburb right on the city limits of Chicago.
Since Archon is based in Poland, we hired a company CritOnHitGames from United States, run by Mihajlo Vlaskovic, to provide PR services of being face of our company on KS, and signed NDA with it until LOAD project is complete. That NDA is now closed.
Unless you are stating that Archon is also in charge of CritOnHitGames, there was no NDA with Prodos or Archon. It was with the US PR company, which if you look at the comments is why this campaign at least PR wise has been handled decently.
From the KS comments:
Since things have escalated more than we expected, we made a decision to lift NDA today. In next update, you will see who is really behind LOAD. Thank you!
So yeah, they did imply the NDA was the reason they couldn't come clean.
I did make a mistake, which I apologize for. Archon is not just the manufacturing company (although it has been around)... I missed the first part of the update before the image, where they do state that the "creators of LOAD is Archon".
The rules and creators who weren't Archon/LOAD was who I was following initially from the game creation. They are referring to them as external contractors, so I'm not sure if they just bought the rules or if they were actually hired to create it specifically for LOAD/Archon.
Hopefully I can get some confirmation or clarity from fellow Dakka's. Sometime ago (could be as far back as 1.5yrs), I read somewhere on Dakka, that the Predator Ship Tiles would ot be sold at retail, despite them being produced. Later in the thread, it was mentioned that as an 'apology' for the lateness of the KS, all backers would receive a set of these tiles.
So convinced I was of this, I removed the tiles from my pledge and put the $$$$ onto some other model. Does anyone hear remember this, or can find the update or even quote from when this was written. I think it was something that someone from PRODOS posted here in the comments in this thread, but I can't find anything.
I do remember that. I had ordered the tiles and they were one of the items I did receive (and very much NOT worth what they cost). I don't remember where they made that statement though.
TheSecretSquig wrote: Hopefully I can get some confirmation or clarity from fellow Dakka's. Sometime ago (could be as far back as 1.5yrs), I read somewhere on Dakka, that the Predator Ship Tiles would ot be sold at retail, despite them being produced. Later in the thread, it was mentioned that as an 'apology' for the lateness of the KS, all backers would receive a set of these tiles.
So convinced I was of this, I removed the tiles from my pledge and put the $$$$ onto some other model. Does anyone hear remember this, or can find the update or even quote from when this was written. I think it was something that someone from PRODOS posted here in the comments in this thread, but I can't find anything.
I suspect that promise has gone the same way as the commitment to send every backer who collects their base games from a con, an extra model as thanks.
Jarek Ewertowski
28 mins
Hi there:
Prodos is well aware that the information we are about to share with you, in normal circumstances of business management would not normally be shared publicly however we have been put into a position where we must clarify some issues with the backers who believed in us so strongly that they put their hard earned cash on the line for a product we committed and still commit to deliver.
You might remember in the December update, we provided a screenshot of the funding that we had set aside for shipping. You may also remember our October update about Prodos seeing the licensor, and discussions being held about the future direction of the game for the next 2 years. We also spoke about potential releases of new models, rules etc. The plan and subsequent deal was agreed and secured with no additional payment required.
In March 2016 we were informed that we had reached “minimum guaranteed” scope and timeframe of our contract with licensor and that they were now looking to renegotiate the contract going forward. For us this raised serious alarm bells as we were in the process of shipping Wave 2 to many backers, with some Wave 2 and Wave 3 items still outstanding for approval.
To allow us to ensure that Kickstarter deliveries will be met, as there are still outstanding items for approval, and to support the future of this product, we had no choice but to sign a new agreement at significant cost. In short, had we not agreed with the terms of the new contract, the KickStarter would have died there and then with no further approvals being given. For us at Prodos, this was not an option. We have always promised that we would see this KS through to the end and this, despite the stress and financial strain, is what we will do.
Looking at silver linings however, it does mean that Prodos will be supporting this game until June 2018 at a minimum!
The cost of this contract, combined with the increased cost of postage previously mentioned, this has again depleted our funds and has again derailed our shipping targets. As a consequence of this we took action and offered expedited shipping as seen in the last updates, so that you could purchase a model and have it shipped with your approved Wave 2 products.
Shipping continues, and is funded by Prodos Games profits from sales, and the services it provides, and the additional purchases made by backers over the last number of weeks.
I am again assuring you that I and the rest of the Prodos team are doing everything possible to have your pledges reach your door step as fast as possible. Currently we have a number of wave 3 items with licensor awaiting approval including the ,much anticipated, dropship however we don’t have a timeframe on the approval of these items as of yet.
The previous Wave 2 shipping offer still stands and includes a 5% discount. Thank you to you who have availed of this offer to date.
I hope most of you have seen the efforts we have put into getting this product to you. To those still awaiting, all I can do is apologise (again) for the delays.
Our store link: store.prodosgames.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Controversy about LOAD the miniatures game.
As there is a few questions about Archon Kickstarters, we would like to make the following statement.
Archon is a company set up by Prodos in 2014 to provide manufacturing services to Prodos only.
Archon LTD and Prodos Games LTD are separate LTD entities and therefore have separate accounts, structures and teams in place.
Prodos Games is an investor in Archon's structure.
Archon, between 2014 and 2016 has grown is strength from mono-customer manufacturer of miniatures to well know and established entity, providing services to more than 20 customers from industry.
It also helped via Prodos connections to provide miniatures for 12 other Kickstarters as well as well know names as:
Ninja Division, Mantic Games, Warlords Gates of Antares, TitanForge, MicroArt Studio, White Dragon Miniatures, Riverhorse, Steamforged Games, Freebooter Minatures, Infamy Miniatures, Age of Tyrants, Rycerze pustkowi, Shadowrun, Demigods Evolution, Norsgard, Miniature 13, Perditions Mouth, Wargamer, Hysterical Games, Awaken Realms, Troll Trader, Armoured Syndicate, Fregged Empire, Collision, hint The Game, Modiphious, Dungeon Saga, Apollo, Broken Contract, Purgatory, Smog Con, Nova open…
Prodos uses about 10% of Archon's manufacturing capabilities to provide Prodos products to the market.{/quote]
In March 2016 we were informed that we had reached “minimum guaranteed” scope and timeframe of our contract with licensor and that they were now looking to renegotiate the contract going forward. For us this raised serious alarm bells as we were in the process of shipping Wave 2 to many backers, with some Wave 2 and Wave 3 items still outstanding for approval.
To allow us to ensure that Kickstarter deliveries will be met, as there are still outstanding items for approval, and to support the future of this product, we had no choice but to sign a new agreement at significant cost. In short, had we not agreed with the terms of the new contract, the KickStarter would have died there and then with no further approvals being given. For us at Prodos, this was not an option. We have always promised that we would see this KS through to the end and this, despite the stress and financial strain, is what we will do.
Maybe it wasn't a so fantastic idea to post on the personnal FB page that he can't wait until the end of the contract to insult " a certain "F" company"...
I would take their "We are sacrificing everything for you!!! Everything!!!!!!!" spiel more seriously if they offered refunds.
They have no problem altering the deal, as long as it's in their favour.
It's obvious the game is dead, and I already pledged for more than I would need just to paint.
In fact, I already paid an order of magnitude more than I would want to for those minis.
Yet, somehow, I don't get to alter the deal in my favour.
I can get what I paid for... if I pay more for things I don't want.
There's a very simple solution for Prodos. If they don't want to lose money on shipping due to their poor planning, they can refund.
They are already selling at retail anyway, so, unlike me, they would not be stuck with pile of useless miniatures.
They probably had no choice on renewing the contract because if they had not, they would have been stuck with a bunch of stock (owed to backers) that they could not then unload.
The shipping situation sounds like it just gives them more excuses to drag their feet and wheedle more money out of their customers. Expect a retail price hike on the boxed game/minis shortly - which you will have to buy at least one of to expidite your shipment (i.e., get what your owed).
Stormonu wrote: They probably had no choice on renewing the contract because if they had not, they would have been stuck with a bunch of stock (owed to backers) that they could not then unload.
The shipping situation sounds like it just gives them more excuses to drag their feet and wheedle more money out of their customers. Expect a retail price hike on the boxed game/minis shortly - which you will have to buy at least one of to expidite your shipment (i.e., get what your owed).
They should have been more than aware of the impending licence renegotiation, it will have been documented in their original licence.
and the price hikes have already started. Both facehuggers and young bloods - the last items to be put up I think, are £5 more than they were in KS. I don't have a problem with that myself, costs change, so why shouldn't prices rise? although if it happens across the board it will make rather a mockery of the 5% off and order a mini to get the rest of your pledge "deal".
Yeah, I don't see how the contract renewal date would be a shock since it's not much of a contract if it doesn't have one. The shock might be how long they've taken to make half the stuff they promised. I'm sure they didn't count on the massive string of failures (both their own and Fox's) that led to them making in essence no money for more than half the duration of the contract. The contract might have been a great deal assuming they got the stuff out on time and on budget with retail sales funnelling money back into the company... but now? Maybe not so much. Either way, they didn't renew the contract out of love for KS backers but rather probably out of lasagna layers of deals with retailers and distributors as well as sunk costs on new releases ready to bring in some needed cash immediately (to retailers obviously... not to backers). Backers are just a convienent "see how awesome we are and how much we love you!" PR excuse.
If backers were really the main priority and AVP was really such a drain on them financially with the higher new terms, they would have instead taken that likely 5-6 figure upfront license fee and shipped EVERYTHING owed to backers that they've already shipped to retail refunding the portions not made and then try to renegotiate with Fox.
Any other Australian or New Zealanders get theirs?
Got my wave 1 in September last year, got (most of) wave 2 in November by purchasing an item from the store and asking if my other stuff could be sent with it.
Any other Australian or New Zealanders get theirs?
My Kickstarter order arrived yesterday (Sydney).
Some notes:
* I did order the crusher from the webstore this month so that they would ship the rest of my items.
* I received an "order shipped" email on the 18th but never got a tracking number.
* The delivery had 2 game box sized cardboard boxes taped together (bottom box had the game box only, top box had the crusher + kickstarter extras).
* The predator ship tiles were on top of the game box along with a letter from prodos with a 25% off webstore voucher.
* Everything aside from the crusher was not in retail packaging.
* The marine sergent was included but while he had a token there was no game card. Not sure if this is intended or not.
Items I received were:
* Alien queen
* Predalien
* Royal guard
* Alien eggs
* Alien dice
* face huggers
* Berzerker predator
* Female predator
* Power loader
* Sentry guns
* Marine Sergent. <- Amazing model. cast in a single piece in a way i cant figure out how they managed it.
At this stage I think that is everything I originally ordered. I need to somehow find a copy of my original pledge to check through it all.
I've been mailed last week end that "my order has been sent"...
In a perfect world, I would receive (after sending 2 friends of mine picking my stuff in person from Jarek) :
- the forgotten predalien
- the forgotten alien eggs
- the forgotten KS exlusive berserker predator
- the predette
- the pred tiles promised
- ... with a little luck the other objectives tokens + the cloaked predators ?
How long will it takes to travel from Poland to France ? (hum, the french post is as rapid as a ill turtle indeed)
In the UK, my wave 2 was in the hands of a courier for less than a week when it finally left Prodos towers, so your wait shouldn't be too long. Did you get a tracking number ?
and I'm pretty sure the cloaked preds are still awaiting packaging approval.
Any other Australian or New Zealanders get theirs?
Got my wave 1 in September last year, got (most of) wave 2 in November by purchasing an item from the store and asking if my other stuff could be sent with it.
I haven't recieved a thing from these guys, except rage and frustration (free KS exclusive!)
Everytime they send me an email I always reply with a message asking where my stuff is. At first I was polite, but I've given up on that.
Last week I recieved this reply ( a first)
Out of curiosity, what changed your mind from this:
Spoiler:
Grot 6 wrote:As I said in another thread, I'm happy with the sculpts, but I don't see the reason , and am not happy for the delays. ( They are not that great of sculpts that would warrant this amount of issues.)
As much as I want to badmouth them, call them all sorts of names, etc... I can see the reason for the issues, delays, and the controversy.
From someone outside looking in, I can't point to conspiracy as the issue. It's just unfathomed missing of the glaring point of the shipping issues.
Prodos just at the end of the day does not have a very good shipping and organizational process for the beast that they unleashed with AVP.
Great game stuff, so far, but not really seeing the reason for the flagellation that the shipping issues and delays have inflicted.
YMMV, but badmouthing FOX, when they already have a reputation for donkey cave is unprofessional, and unnecessary. Worry about the issues you can control, and in this case- Its shipping and productions of the game equipment.
Please focus on that, and not on the negativity. You will go farther, and goodwill is catchy.
"Hey, yes we do have some issues, but here is what we can do for you now. we'll keep you informed, and let us know how you like the sculpts.."
Honestly to me- that 25% stuff goes a long way. Thank you for that, BTW.
to this?
Grot 6 wrote:Yeah....
The situation is bad. I changed my mind on the situation, and I'm not really a happy camper with the game at all.
How many people are waiting for wave 1?
How many people are waiting for wave 2?
...
How many people are waiting for wave X?
Why are Prodos talking about a new casting system and fishing for business here when they owe so many people a lot of stuff?
I think Dakka should close down all new Prodos threads to prevent more dakkanauts becoming victims of prodos...
i don't think a blind eye should be turned.
Prodos should have to clean up their failures before asking for more business.
In a weird backhanded kind of way, I am thankful for this debacle of a ks. It renewed my interest in and love of boardgames and painting miniatures. It introduced me to some amazing sites, such as Dakka, and BGG. It taught me a lot about ks and the true risk of backing a campaign. It taught me that no matter how much you may love an IP it's never worth spending more than you are comfortable. So even though I have lost complete faith in this game and Prodos in general, the wealth of things I've rediscovered and learned along the way have in some way made this worthwhile. The time spent using the paints, tools, and other materials I had originally bought to use for this project have been wonderful and provided hours and hours of enjoyment, truly making lemonade out of the lemon(s) Prodos have given me.
For a start, We're talking about a simple, make miniatures for a game. Then they make the game, send out to backers, get it to market....
NOW, after this gak I got the other day.... all in hindsight of the actions that Prodos conducted, now almost on a daily basis.
" Prodos Games Ltd says this to backers:
Hi there:
Prodos is well aware that the information we are about to share with you, in normal circumstances of business management would not normally be shared publicly however we have been put into a position where we must clarify some issues with the backers who believed in us so strongly that they put their hard earned cash on the line for a product we committed and still commit to deliver.
You might remember in the December update, we provided a screenshot of the funding that we had set aside for shipping. You may also remember our October update about Prodos seeing the licensor, and discussions being held about the future direction of the game for the next 2 years. We also spoke about potential releases of new models, rules etc. The plan and subsequent deal was agreed and secured with no additional payment required.
In March 2016 we were informed that we had reached “minimum guaranteed” scope and timeframe of our contract with licensor and that they were now looking to renegotiate the contract going forward. For us this raised serious alarm bells as we were in the process of shipping Wave 2 to many backers, with some Wave 2 and Wave 3 items still outstanding for approval.
To allow us to ensure that Kickstarter deliveries will be met, as there are still outstanding items for approval, and to support the future of this product, we had no choice but to sign a new agreement at significant cost. In short, had we not agreed with the terms of the new contract, the KickStarter would have died there and then with no further approvals being given. For us at Prodos, this was not an option. We have always promised that we would see this KS through to the end and this, despite the stress and financial strain, is what we will do.
Looking at silver linings however, it does mean that Prodos will be supporting this game until June 2018 at a minimum!
The cost of this contract, combined with the increased cost of postage previously mentioned, this has again depleted our funds and has again derailed our shipping targets. As a consequence of this we took action and offered expedited shipping as seen in the last updates, so that you could purchase a model and have it shipped with your approved Wave 2 products.
Shipping continues, and is funded by Prodos Games profits from sales, and the services it provides, and the additional purchases made by backers over the last number of weeks.
I am again assuring you that I and the rest of the Prodos team are doing everything possible to have your pledges reach your door step as fast as possible. Currently we have a number of wave 3 items with licensor awaiting approval including the ,much anticipated, dropship however we don’t have a timeframe on the approval of these items as of yet.
The previous Wave 2 shipping offer still stands and includes a 5% discount. Thank you to you who have availed of this offer to date.
I hope most of you have seen the efforts we have put into getting this product to you. To those still awaiting, all I can do is apologise (again) for the delays.
Our store link: store.prodosgames.com
Controversy about LOAD the miniatures game.
As there is a few questions about Archon Kickstarters, we would like to make the following statement.
Archon is a company set up by Prodos in 2014 to provide manufacturing services to Prodos only.
Archon LTD and Prodos Games LTD are separate LTD entities and therefore have separate accounts, structures and teams in place.
Prodos Games is an investor in Archon's structure.
Archon, between 2014 and 2016 has grown is strength from mono-customer manufacturer of miniatures to well know and established entity, providing services to more than 20 customers from industry.
It also helped via Prodos connections to provide miniatures for 12 other Kickstarters as well as well know names as:
Ninja Division, Mantic Games, Warlords Gates of Antares, TitanForge, MicroArt Studio, White Dragon Miniatures, Riverhorse, Steamforged Games, Freebooter Minatures, Infamy Miniatures, Age of Tyrants, Rycerze pustkowi, Shadowrun, Demigods Evolution, Norsgard, Miniature 13, Perditions Mouth, Wargamer, Hysterical Games, Awaken Realms, Troll Trader, Armoured Syndicate, Fregged Empire, Collision, hint The Game, Modiphious, Dungeon Saga, Apollo, Broken Contract, Purgatory, Smog Con, Nova open…
Prodos uses about 10% of Archon's manufacturing capabilities to provide Prodos products to the market.
After trying to give them the benefit of the doubt, I feel as if I am being taken for a ride.
Then they have the gull to sell the stuff we've already funded in other venues?
Prodos is pretty much out as far as my good will. This post, broken down can give me plenty to write about, but at the end of the day, I am out hard earned coin, and Prodos is playing fast and lose with the funding gained for a KS project without a responsibility to honor the agreement. Add this to some rather big talk from them a few back... yeah.
I'm cheated out of funding while they get to play in the "Game designers" playground while they continue to fleece other people for funding.
I'm already dealing with Mongoose and their gak service, but at least they honor their commitment. Prodos's comments, actions, and postings show me dishonest business practice. Lying, and using KS to fund other projects other then what they put the project to, in violation of the KS agreements, then they remove the project, so there is no recourse.
Anyone who does business with this company,Caveat emptor. They are liars and cheats who will promise, then do not deliver.
There may be some concerns when pledging on KS. As you may know Kickstarter is not taking any responsibility for delivering a project. Kickstarter is just a platform providing services and is linking project creators with customers.
But when pledging on LOAD you are fully protected!
How?
YOUR PRE-ORDER (pledge) is fully protected by Customer Protection Act.
Under Polish accounting law there is no definition of pledge, hence, your pledge must be accounted as sales or pre-sale, meaning that once Archon issue an invoice to you (generated from pledge manager) you are automatically gaining Customer Rights, as end customer, on your purchase.
This mean that your pledge (or better called a pre-order) is protected by Customer Protection Act in the full length of this project and beyond.
What are your rights?
In a nutshell, most important rights:
1. You have a right to cancel your pre-order within a full time of delivering this product to you, based on invoice that will be issued by Archon and generated by pledge manager.
2. You have right to return the product to us within 14 days upon receiving it if you are not happy with final product.
There is much more about your rights: there is a link to full document explaining your rights in full.
https://uokik.gov.pl/consumer_protection2.php The front page FAQ, also will also reflect this.
Of course, this being run by Prodos' "LoadBoardGame" shell company claimed to be in Chicago, USA rather than Archon of Poland, I'm not quite sure that this matters, given that US Consumer Protection Law should pre-empt, given that the backers are giving their money to the unnamed American shell company.
However, given this statement by Prodos, doesn't this mean that all AvP backers are equally protected by Polish Consumer Protection Law? Right? Can't everybody just get refunds of their pre-orders for undelvered product, given Prodos failure to deliver as promised, a material breach of the KS contract?
Some friends users on the french forum Warmania tried to spend some money on prodos official website to get all their pledge approved. Obviously ? It matched.
So :
- on May 21st, I ordered facehuggers + sentry guns for a friend
- on May 28th, I am said that my package is sent (no tracking number or anything else given)
- on June 1st, I have my parcel in France !!
And I even received very much more than pledged (even if, for the 3rd time, Jarek forgot to add my predalien, the female predator and the pred tiles)
I must admit it : maybe for the ONE time (except the perfect quality of the minis always encountered), Jarek told the truth. I admit too that I would certainly not erase 2 years of lying and cheating but "here are the facts".
Makes me excited for wave 2, though I think I'll be waiting for a while yet as I ordered 15 multipose Marines and they never seem to get a mention from Prodos, so I assume they're still awaiting approval...
It doesn't make it right. It shouldn't take a sideshow to get something in the mail, and honor a commitment.
Those of us who pledges were already promised the product after the project closed. All we have are clever E mails to the contrary, or some other stuff. Then we get to read about- other companies/ projects, etc....
I don't speak for others, but- Where's the stuff? We already should have it in hand.
The picture alone is enough to say that it is out. That means Prodos sold backers project "rewards" to others before Prodos took care of backers.
Want to bring a second, third or fourth company into it? great, get the product out to legal backers, and stop being cute
A pledger from little old New Zealand here, my pledge manager is sitting on awaiting status, I haven't seen a single product from Prodos and their second most recent announcement it seems like shipping costs to NZ or Australia means I'll likely be last on the list :(
Quote from their announcement;
"As you can see on attached screenshot, to ship a parcel to USA for example, using the cheapest track solution, costs 280 PLN which equates to roughly 71 USD, and this doubles for Australia."
I can only assume this cost is the same or worse for New Zealand, so I'm really not feeling confident at this stage.
To make matters worse I've been e-mailing them for updates, 90% of the time I get no reply, but the one time they did reply was simply to say they could not find my order, talk about a kick in the teeth! My anger has given way to sadness, I'm just sad every time I see talk about new products and such.
Maybe one day I can come back and say hey guys, I got it! But if nothing by 2018 I guess I got lumped into the too expensive to ship to catergory. The New Zealand dollar is pretty weak, ordering something from their webstore would cost me a small fortune, not really an option.
Sectiplave wrote: A pledger from little old New Zealand here, my pledge manager is sitting on awaiting status, I haven't seen a single product from Prodos and their second most recent announcement it seems like shipping costs to NZ or Australia means I'll likely be last on the list :(
Quote from their announcement;
"As you can see on attached screenshot, to ship a parcel to USA for example, using the cheapest track solution, costs 280 PLN which equates to roughly 71 USD, and this doubles for Australia."
I can only assume this cost is the same or worse for New Zealand, so I'm really not feeling confident at this stage.
To make matters worse I've been e-mailing them for updates, 90% of the time I get no reply, but the one time they did reply was simply to say they could not find my order, talk about a kick in the teeth! My anger has given way to sadness, I'm just sad every time I see talk about new products and such.
Maybe one day I can come back and say hey guys, I got it! But if nothing by 2018 I guess I got lumped into the too expensive to ship to catergory. The New Zealand dollar is pretty weak, ordering something from their webstore would cost me a small fortune, not really an option.
1 USD will let you share your history with the idiots pledging LOAD and the liars running it.
It doesn't make it right. It shouldn't take a sideshow to get something in the mail, and honor a commitment.
Those of us who pledges were already promised the product after the project closed. All we have are clever E mails to the contrary, or some other stuff. Then we get to read about- other companies/ projects, etc....
I don't speak for others, but- Where's the stuff? We already should have it in hand.
The picture alone is enough to say that it is out. That means Prodos sold backers project "rewards" to others before Prodos took care of backers.
Want to bring a second, third or fourth company into it? great, get the product out to legal backers, and stop being cute
My dear Grot 6,
Just for your information if you didn't know it : I'm a french AVP early backer. Not a simple customer. I even participated to the AVP french translation (for the french speakers only, certainly not for jarek as he never opened the french language option).
Like you, I know how the mess this project is. I only reached to get my stuffs by sending lots of mails and sending very kindful webfriends of mine to pick it directly from Jarek on the Crisis (Belgium) and Salute (UK). Without that, I would certainly still wait for my wave 1 box...
You're absolutely right : we, backers, already sould have all our entire pledges on our hand since long time ago...
The LOAD project is a shame due to the fact that Jarek promised us that "this year, no KS project for us"... Ok prodos is not archon... But only on the papers, not on the facts.
A pledger from little old New Zealand here, my pledge manager is sitting on awaiting status, I haven't seen a single product from Prodos and their second most recent announcement it seems like shipping costs to NZ or Australia means I'll likely be last on the list :(
Quote from their announcement;
"As you can see on attached screenshot, to ship a parcel to USA for example, using the cheapest track solution, costs 280 PLN which equates to roughly 71 USD, and this doubles for Australia."
I can only assume this cost is the same or worse for New Zealand, so I'm really not feeling confident at this stage.
To make matters worse I've been e-mailing them for updates, 90% of the time I get no reply, but the one time they did reply was simply to say they could not find my order, talk about a kick in the teeth! My anger has given way to sadness, I'm just sad every time I see talk about new products and such.
Maybe one day I can come back and say hey guys, I got it! But if nothing by 2018 I guess I got lumped into the too expensive to ship to catergory. The New Zealand dollar is pretty weak, ordering something from their webstore would cost me a small fortune, not really an option.
Hey mate,
Long time lurker, but thought I should make an account to say I'm another Kiwi in the same situation.
No sign of anything on my end either. If I see or hear anything I will PM you.
I'm also from NZ, got my wave 1 last year and I'm honestly kinda surprised that they didn't just send at least wave 1 to everybody here at the same time, surely they'd have saved money by doing so?
Oh and FYI - when it does show up, be prepared for customs to charge you $100-200 if your order was fairly large.
Ktulhut wrote: I'm also from NZ, got my wave 1 last year and I'm honestly kinda surprised that they didn't just send at least wave 1 to everybody here at the same time, surely they'd have saved money by doing so?
Oh and FYI - when it does show up, be prepared for customs to charge you $100-200 if your order was fairly large.
Looks like mine has shipped, although there is no tracking number.
"HI TIM ,
YOUR ORDER HAS BEEN SHIPPED
ORDER NRQBNFF - SHIPPED
Your order with the reference NRQBNFF has been shipped.
Thank you for shopping with Prodos Games!"
Package arrived today and almost everything looks good. There is a baggie for the Weyland-Yutani Commandos with cards, bases and tokens but NO FIGURES. I'm trying unsuccessfully to send and email to customer service through the web site and getting the following no matter what I do:
"There is 1 error
1. An error occurred while sending the message."
No idea what the problem is. Anyone have a customer service email address that actually works?
Your AvP Kickstarter order is now being partially sent
Shipment 1:
Free items:
A Royal Guard x1 1, KS P Berserker 1, AVP Game (Box) 1, Facehuggers x7 1,
100k:
M Sergeant x1 1,
155k:
M Sentry guns x2 1,
310k:
A Eggs (Obj. Marker) x4 1,
Addons:
Major Dutch Schaefer 1, Predator ship (Extra tiles) 1, P Predator Hellhounds x2 1, A Queen x1 1, A Predalien x1 1, A Warrior x5 1, Weyland-Yutani Commandos 1, M Power Loader x1 1, M Sentry guns x2 1, M Sergeant x1 1,
Shipment 2:
Shipment 3:
Prodos Games team"
I have not brought anything to fast track my pledge.
The pledge manager has also been moved to 'partially sent'.
The wait looks like it is over.
I also received an email in May but on the 25th. It has taken this long to get over the shock and amazement to post here....sorry about that.
I'll refrain from posting the contents of that email since it's practically a carbon copy of yours but will add that I also "have not brought anything to fast track my pledge."
No tracking number though.
Email sent. Got an immediate auto response: "Thank you for submitting your request. Depending on the type of request, please allow at least 72 hours to 5 days for a response.
I'll get some pics next to AvP minis when they arrive.
I have ordered this
