They didn't ship everything to everybody... Some of us (including me) won't get out out of date stuff for who knows how long after folks get their 2nd Edition delivered.
This ended up in my emails earlier today, Source Link
Announcing AvP The Hunt Begins Second Edition and AVP Unleashed
Spoiler:
Improved and upgraded AvP is available for preoder
After 2 years since initial "Alien versus Predator The Hunt Begins" release, we are happy to announce Second Edition of our game. We have improved many aspects of the game and components itself.
REDESIGNED MINIATURES
All models have received fresh design and looks. Characters are more dynamic now and we are introducing built-in terrain bases as well.
IMPROVED RULESET
Second Edition of AVP contains all the patches and erratas we have collected over last year of testing and collecting feedback.
THE LAST STAND MODE
You can play with your fiends in cooperative way using The Last Stand Mode from First Edition. Aim of the game is simple - destroy Spawning Points of Xenomorphs, while Horde of Aliens is trying to do what they do best. Horde is controlled by The Game, while your brave Marines Squad or Predator Pack are controlled by players.
PACKAGING
AVP Second Edition is now in different box, in a square shape, instead of rectangular one. It will fit stacks of your favorite board games perfectly and it's much easier to handle now.
MINIATURES ARE UNICAST NOW
Biggest improvement has been done with models - you can place them on board straight from the box! No assembling required, no gluing, no cutters - just open a game and play!
After you finish playing, you can assembly the game and put models back into the box without any risk of damaging them. All this thanks to protective foam we have used for miniatures.
REVAMPED ARTWORK
We have spent a lot of time improving our assets, which results in new design of tiles, we are using for a game. Take a look.
PRE-ORDERS START NOW
AVP The Hunt Begins Second Edition “The Hunt Begins” Is a fast-paced, claustrophobic, “express elevator to hell” Miniature game of combat between three of the most dangerous races in the galaxy.
59.99 USD 48.99 GBP 56.99 EUR
AVP Unleashed Rulebook Based on the Wargame Adaptive Ruleset (WAR), AVP:Unleashed is a fast-paced, tactical game that pits the forces of two or more players against each other. From small skirmish fights of a squad or two to large-scale battles, AVP:Unleashed can be played in an endless number of ways.
35.00 USD 25.00 GBP 29.99 EUR
AVP Second Edition Upgrade Pack With this Upgrade Kit you can update your First Edition to second one. Pack consists of new A5 manual, updated cards and tokens.
21.00 USD 15.00 GBP 17.99 EUR
Great, 2nd Edition is out. Yet to recieve my stuff from the Kickstarter. So do we receive the original KS edition of the Out of Date game, or do we receive the 2nd Edition Game?
Looks like the 2nd edition has a smaller content count, but I'd need my first edition that was ordered 3 half years ago to do a comparision!
CURNOW wrote: Yep still waiting for over half my pledge about £150 worth . Now £150 worth of obsolete stuff .
Look on the bright side... now that Jarek has literally no one else he can reasonably ship it too except at firesale clearance prices, you might actually get it sooner!
CURNOW wrote: Yep still waiting for over half my pledge about £150 worth . Now £150 worth of obsolete stuff .
Look on the bright side... now that Jarek has literally no one else he can reasonably ship it too except at firesale clearance prices, you might actually get it sooner!
I wish, but since new sales, even at firesale clearance price, are still new money coming it, it's more profitable for the thieves at prodos to do that than to ship to backers.
They already have our money.
TLDR version.. they were gonna make my minis.. they made some samples, I funded the campaign, then they went dark, then after asking 27 times they finally said something like "Sorry, we could maybe do it in like a year or so..." key word being maybe.
Needless to say I'm sticking to good old fashioned metal.
For what it's worth, their unicast minis are seriously awesome. But I guess they just want to focus on bigger projects for more well know guys... I've moved on
TheSecretSquig wrote: Seems like PRODOS are now involved in another Kickstarter. Sodapop's Relic Knight models are all being produced by our favourite company in Poland.
This isn't new though. Prodos has exclusively been making all of Relic Knights miniatures for multiple years since they switched to resin.
Ninja Division are Prodos and Archons US distributor they will be given priority plus as above they already make the RK resins anyway.
Wasn't the issue with Mantic that they commission Prodos to do a test run of the KoW Blaine to see how things went they agreed a set amount but needed more than that and Prodos hadn't the capacity free to exceed the original order? Or am I mis remembering? The bendy legs was a problem though but AVP minis suffer from a similar issue hopefully unicast is better in this regard. I'm loath to defend them as I only have a partial delivery on AVP (and had to order more to get that shipped) but they seem to be fairly OK if your dealing with them through a third party.
Yes, I'd heard that they were more reliable in fulfilling 3rd party KS obligations (more dangerous to screw someone over in that kind of commercial contract rather than this unprotected 'pledge/reward' relationship).
However White Dragon Minis, who were originally using Prodos for the resins on their 2016 Shattered Void Kickstarter have instead taken the printing in-house. I won't repeat all the details here as it was a backers-only update and obviously only one side of the story, but yeah doesn't seem like Prodos have been covering themselves in glory.
Shinnentai wrote: Yes, I'd heard that they were more reliable in fulfilling 3rd party KS obligations (more dangerous to screw someone over in that kind of commercial contract rather than this unprotected 'pledge/reward' relationship).
However White Dragon Minis, who were originally using Prodos for the resins on their 2016 Shattered Void Kickstarter have instead taken the printing in-house. I won't repeat all the details here as it was a backers-only update and obviously only one side of the story, but yeah doesn't seem like Prodos have been covering themselves in glory.
Just because they chose to make it backer only doesn't mean you or anyone else has to keep it that way; it's not in any kickstarter TOS to my knowledge. It's public and news worthy and, FWIW, this is where plenty of folks go to get the real story on Prodos in one (albeit lengthy) source. I know I'd appreciate it if you posted the text here as Prodos being magically better on the business to business end of things is a traditional fallback for white knights. Dark Severance and Necros iirc have already releated their unsatisfactory business to business experiences and a third from another source (remember that Prodos called dakka a hive of scum and villainy or some crap) would be welcome and further proof.
Hysterical Games had to step in to take over the casting of another KS, can't remember which one, because Prodos weren't able to complete their obligations. Anyone know more about that?
Joyboozer wrote: Age of tyrants switched from Prodos to a company run by Rob Alderman? Wasn't he a part of Prodos? Wtfs the story there? They're competition now?
Well...
Rob was a part of Prodos, he said he was a Director at prodos in interviews and his Link'din profile said he was a Director.
But when he was running a KS for his new company I posted about him of being a Director at Prodos, and thus part to blame for the unfulfilled Pledges, he called the Police!
He told the police I was harassing him online.
Joyboozer wrote: Age of tyrants switched from Prodos to a company run by Rob Alderman? Wasn't he a part of Prodos? Wtfs the story there? They're competition now?
Well...
Rob was a part of Prodos, he said he was a Director at prodos in interviews and his Link'din profile said he was a Director.
But when he was running a KS for his new company I posted about him of being a Director at Prodos, and thus part to blame for the unfulfilled Pledges, he called the Police!
He told the police I was harassing him online.
Panic...
That was you, huh?
Yeah, I'd heard about that.
Rob and Mark both left Prodos at different times to pursue their own projects although their departure was motivated by.. internal matters. Mark's main area of responsibility had been writing for Warzone, and Rob's job seemed to vary from week to week but he was mostly responsible for maintaining contact with retail stores in the UK and getting them to stock Warzone etc. The director thing is mostly BS. You have to remember that this is largely Polish company that needed to be 'based' in the UK, yet it really only had two employees in the UK, neither of whom were responsible for running the show. However, as and when required, they were apparently given the grand poobah hat to wear.. and then they left. It isn't too taxing to read between the lines there.
Right now Mark is doing well with his Devil's Run game, and Rob went to help a friend resurrect Panzerfaust under the company "Hysterical Games". Since Rob is basically doing the casting for the Panzerfaust and has some capacity for additional casting, he also took over the job of casting for Age of Tyrants when Prodos had* to shed** some of it's production obligations, ostensibly to prioritise AvP. Age of Tyrants and Shattered Void are two examples, but let's be honest, there may be others. However, when it comes to their bigger contracts like Relic Knights and Kings of War, there is no denying that those products exist; Relic Knights have been using Prodos for years and for people who jumped in on the RK KS, the consensus has been that the (Prodos) resin minis have been a huge step up from the restic that was originally used.. and there is absolutely no reason to think that the partnership won't continue to be successful. The only problem I could see is if RK 2.0 does really, really well and Prodos can't meet the demand (which is supposedly*** what happened to the KoW casts they did). If there have been problems on either side, all parties involved have had the sense to keep their mouths shut about it and to move on.
So yeah, if you are lucky enough to be a big company working with Prodos - or you are invested in that company's game - I don't think you have anything to worry about. If you swap "big company" for "small company going to KS" then I think you'd have reason to be concerned. The trick is figuring out where that line is. As for the former Prodos peeps, I'm sure both Rob and Mark can count the handling of the KS as one of the reasons they left (Mark said as much in this thread, I think) and they currently have nothing to do with Prodos. I wish them both well and if I am ever in the market for a 15mm Mad Max type game, or Fantasy WW2, I'd have no reservations about buying into the product or supporting the respective companies. You don't get pissed at Sabé because Amidala banned flip-flops on Naboo.
Or.. something.
warboss wrote: (remember that Prodos called dakka a hive of scum and villainy or some crap)
Hahahha, wait, you're refuting that? This place is a wretched hive of scum and villainy. That doesn't mean there isn't anything of value here, but the s**t to gold ratio is pretty unfavourable.
I'd have no reservations about buying into the product or supporting the respective companies. You don't get pissed at Sabé because Amidala banned flip-flops on Naboo.
Or.. something.
warboss wrote: (remember that Prodos called dakka a hive of scum and villainy or some crap)
Hahahha, wait, you're refuting that? This place is a wretched hive of scum and villainy. That doesn't mean there isn't anything of value here, but the s**t to gold ratio is pretty unfavourable.
I disagree with both parts above. The guy who claimed to kickstarter backers that he was "just an employee" at prodos while simultaneously claiming to future employers/business partners (and probably the british government) that he was both part OWNER and MANAGEMENT at prodos was clearly dishonest in one of the two claims as they're mutually exclusive. I assume brits are no more entitled to "alternative facts" than we are over on this side of the pond. If the former was actually true, it still speaks to his character that he CHOSE to inaccurately claim the latter for probably years without adjusting it once he found out the truth... and that is the best case scenario for evaluating his veracity. Just like his former co-owner/boss/partner/whatever Jarek, he tried to play both sides of the same coin and got caught.
I fully understand that employees leave companies and that they're not responsbile in most cases for the bad decisions of that prior company. But.. if their first action upon leaving said dishonest company is to be dishonest themselves while asking for an effectively low to no risk handout then they don't deserve the benefit of the doubt let alone they coddling they desire. This is especially true with crowdfunding companies as bad as Prodos and Palladium.
As for the second part, every forum has good and bad things and the ratio here when factoring in the open door policy and number of users is higher than expected (in terms of news/rumors/painting/tactics). In the prodos case, Jarek was just pissed that people here were able to clearly dismantle his misleading posts elsewhere with actual proof and that there was nothing he could do to erase it unlike on kickstarter and facebook. That's admirable IMO and I'm glad that folks here on dakka discern the truth from the spin.
Edit: oops, I'm late. Will try to dig up the email...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Update - Important Production Information
Posted by White Dragon Miniatures (Creator)
Backer3x For backers only
...
The not so good news...
We at WDM have decided to step away from our casting partner, Prodos Games Ltd for production of our ships. A great deal of thought has been put into the decision and it isn't something we have taken lightly.
This has come about due to us experiencing multiple production delays in both 3D printing and casting, a lack of clear communication to our questions and as such these issues raised concerns between us about production delays for future projects and miniatures.
The silver lining!
Our main priority is getting you guys your awesome spaceships and materials to play games in our expanding universe of Shattered Void and we also need to ensure that the company's future health is also secure to allow us to grow.
White Dragon Miniatures originally began life as a successful resin casting service, (1/54 scale Fiddler and also casting for a variety of other companies) this means we already have the materials, tools and skills required to produce our range.
We originally outsourced the Shattered Void kickstarter to Prodos Games in the unforeseen event that the Kickstarter was more successful than we could cope with in production terms. This is not the case and therefore we will be bringing the casting back in house of, not only our Kickstarter items, but our 15mm range too.
Where do we go from here?
We are currently awaiting the delivery of the 3D Master Prints from Prodos Games and what casting has been done. We will be wasting no time producing the outstanding ships when we have the masters to cast from.
This means we will sadly be missing our December fulfilment goal which we can do little else but apologise for. We are deeply disappointed that this situation has arisen as we were thoroughly looking forward to getting all of your miniatures to you guys before Christmas and then hitting 2017 with a full range of miniatures and supporting game system.
It would be incredibly unwise of us to give an exact date at this present moment until Prodos have sent us the 3D Master Prints so we can take stock of the situation and launch plan B into action. We'll hopefully be able to update you all with some better news within the next week or two!
What we would also like to do for you guys, our backers is offer a miniature. Not just any miniature but a completely new model... Therefore we need your help.
What do you guys want to see made in the Shattered Void universe? Some crazy Astivar strike craft? Something punchy for the EEF? Let us know, any and all ideas are welcome!
Yes, we could just make a new miniature for you guys but due to it's creation being in part due to the circumstances that have arisen we want you guys to pour your creative ideas into something -you- would love to see!
All backers that have pledges which require postage will get this miniature thrown in the box when we begin fulfillment!
So, on that note if you guys have any questions, comments of queries please hit us up in the comments section, private message or email.
Thank you all for your support and once more, please accept our most sincere apologies over the slight delay.
...
3D Master Models
Now last update we broke the news that we would be bringing the production back in house and also getting a 3D printer to take charge of what needs doing. Now this has proved to be a very wise choice, as you will read onto.
2 boxes of master 3D prints had arrived with us, including; The Drone carrier ship, Talos Suits, and a number of the alien ships. There were also some of the ships that had been cast prior to the Kickstarter. Now looking over them, they were really poorly cleaned up, and clearly rushed. The carrier hadn’t even printed correctly, as part of it was cut off at the top. These prints have been sent back to Prodos and no money has been paid for them. However, there is no news for the remaining prints that are in their possession. This includes a major number of the models that were cast before the Kickstarter had even launched, and the entire catalogue of 15mm models that we offer on the webstore.
Disappointing and frustrating yes, but not the end of the world (now atleast). Yesterday the 3D printer was ordered, and should have it with us in the next 2 weeks (3 at the latest). We can then just focus on getting Master Models printed and set ready for casting. An advantage of having the printer is that we can also print multiple Master Models, which will enable us to significantly speed up the mould making time for the ships.
It also means that we will not be waiting around for Prodos to send the 3D prints out, which will be, well who knows. But that’s now for us to sort out, and will have no further impact on you, the backers.
We will get more information on the printer front when it arrives (expect an excited update at that point).
I'd have no reservations about buying into the product or supporting the respective companies. You don't get pissed at Sabé because Amidala banned flip-flops on Naboo.
Or.. something.
warboss wrote: (remember that Prodos called dakka a hive of scum and villainy or some crap)
Hahahha, wait, you're refuting that? This place is a wretched hive of scum and villainy. That doesn't mean there isn't anything of value here, but the s**t to gold ratio is pretty unfavourable.
I disagree with both parts above. The guy who claimed to kickstarter backers that he was "just an employee" at prodos while simultaneously claiming to future employers/business partners (and probably the british government) that he was both part OWNER and MANAGEMENT at prodos was clearly dishonest in one of the two claims as they're mutually exclusive. I assume brits are no more entitled to "alternative facts" than we are over on this side of the pond. If the former was actually true, it still speaks to his character that he CHOSE to inaccurately claim the latter for probably years without adjusting it once he found out the truth... and that is the best case scenario for evaluating his veracity. Just like his former co-owner/boss/partner/whatever Jarek, he tried to play both sides of the same coin and got caught.
I fully understand that employees leave companies and that they're not responsbile in most cases for the bad decisions of that prior company. But.. if their first action upon leaving said dishonest company is to be dishonest themselves while asking for an effectively low to no risk handout then they don't deserve the benefit of the doubt let alone they coddling they desire. This is especially true with crowdfunding companies as bad as Prodos and Palladium.
As for the second part, every forum has good and bad things and the ratio here when factoring in the open door policy and number of users is higher than expected (in terms of news/rumors/painting/tactics). In the prodos case, Jarek was just pissed that people here were able to clearly dismantle his misleading posts elsewhere with actual proof and that there was nothing he could do to erase it unlike on kickstarter and facebook. That's admirable IMO and I'm glad that folks here on dakka discern the truth from the spin.
I disagree with your... er.. disagreement. On the first topic, I have a pretty good idea about what happened but since I can't state it as fact, I'm not going to post it here although I would be more than happy to continue that part of the discussion with you via PM.
..and the reason I don't feel comfortable posting things that are not certifiable facts when it comes to Prodos Shennanigans (and there is no denying there have been some shennaningans. I have no problem with such things being called out) is the very reason I agree with the whole scum and villainy thing. There are a lot of people here who would take a piece of information which is second or third hand and consider it fact if it supports their particular view on something, especially if it is negative, without any desire to do exactly what you just said and discern the truth from community spin. That doesn't mean those people are always wrong in their claims (a broken clock is right twice a day), and it doesn't apply to everyone of course, but it happens here more than the other places I frequent. *
Really, as Alpharius demonstrated, the biggest looser here is the community of players who want AvP to be a thing - be that in board game form or the upcoming wargame (which is nearly, nearly there, I promise). What ever Prodos do tomorrow will do nothing to shed the baggage of yesterday, and that baggage is ultimately what is handicapping interest and trust in their games. I fear AvP and also Warzone will always be a game that struggles to take off in a club or store because of what has happened and for those people who really want to see something good to come of those licenses, it really sucks.
* although that includes BoW, so, maybe not a good example
Hey, I'll take the hive of scum and villainy over the empire that is BoW.
How many comments does it take from Jarek to make Prodos disreputable? I notice he never had any of his rants on BoW? I wonder why.
Because Warren would loudly proclaim from the mountain tops how much he loves the Official DPRK Miniatures GameTM and how it's creator, the great general, was a genius game designer as long as Kim Jong Un bought a week's worth of sponsored content. He's the Oxy Clean guy of miniatures gaming.
Please pm me if you want to sell the objective markers, female pred, alternate marines and aliens, and any other stuff from very last exclusive batch that some people are getting
Raoh76 wrote: Please pm me if you want to sell the objective markers, female pred, alternate marines and aliens, and any other stuff from very last exclusive batch that some people are getting
Thanks
The only thing which was supposed to be exclusive to the KS was the Berserker Predator. All the rest will likely be available form Jarek and fellow crap bags via retail at some point.
And, has anyone actually got the alternative marines yet? That is one of the several items I'm still owed and I have yet to hear someone has gotten them.
Raoh76 wrote: Please pm me if you want to sell the objective markers, female pred, alternate marines and aliens, and any other stuff from very last exclusive batch that some people are getting
Thanks
The only thing which was supposed to be exclusive to the KS was the Berserker Predator. All the rest will likely be available form Jarek and fellow crap bags via retail at some point.
And, has anyone actually got the alternative marines yet? That is one of the several items I'm still owed and I have yet to hear someone has gotten them.
The alternate marines, marine sergeant and clear predators are all stuck in "Wave 3" right now (Probably some other items I am forgetting too - to be honest I thought the female predator was in Wave 3 but it seems some people have her so she must have been Wave 2). As far as I understand the current situation, if you are lucky, you got shipped (or picked up) your Wave 1 stuff when it was available, and maybe got your Wave 2 stuff (or you Wave 1 and 2 stuff together if that is all you were waiting for). If you don't have your Wave 1 stuff yet, or you do but you don't have your Wave 2 stuff, you won't be getting anything until Wave 3 is complete (at which point everything will be shipped at once) unless you place an order through the Prodos web store for something and ask them to include your outstanding Wave 1 + 2 (or just Wave 2) items.
HELLO LADIES AND GENTLEMEN!
10th of April 2017
We got some news for our Kickstarter backers!
Salute 2017 Collection
Later this month, in Excel, London, is Salute 2017 tradeshow. http://www.salute.co.uk Prodos Games is attending it and we are located at booth TD30. If you are visiting the show, you can collect your AvP Pledge there! All you have to to is send us an e-mail with your order and bring some form of ID with you with your ks pledge detail. And that's it. You will be able to pick up part of your pledge there! To collect your pledge please send us an e-mail: salute2017@prodosgames.com so we know what stock to bring with us.
Cloaked Predators are coming!
These are now in production and on their way to us from China. By the end of the May we are expecting them to arrive and right after that we will be shipping them to our backers. You can see picture of actual components below:
[snip - see previous post]
Exchange Program
We know that some of you have been waiting a while for pieces and we don't yet have a timeframe in place for some of the outstanding parts so we have put in place an Exchange program,so you can exchange any of outstanding items (the ones we don't have yet in stock: Alternative Marines, Heads and pieces, Resin terrain, Clear preds of all variants) for any other items in stock of the same value. If you wish to participate in Exchange Program, please send us an e-mail: exchange@prodosgames.com
I wish they would offer a refund for what they cannot produce. An 'exchange' is worthless to me. I ordered what I wanted and didn't order what I didn't want.
Well I e-mailed them about an exchange. I don't have faith in them producing the stuff that doesn't have a timeline so I may as well get product that they do have. I'll let you all know how it goes.
Crud. The alternate marines were part of my pledge. I am highly sceptical that they'll even bother making these since they're so out of scale with the marines from the 2nd edition.
There clearly is nothing stopping them from putting the alternate marines into production other than the fact that they've given them the lowest possible priority. I really hope they don't start blaming slow Fox approvals again - didn't seem to be a problem for the 2nd edition miniatures!
I never thought I'd get to April 2017 and still have nothing of my KS pledge.
At this point, wouldn't it be wise to just cut your losses and get something in stock rather than waiting another four years if you're missing a significant portion of your pledge? At least with AVP, you have a reasonable chance of selling the items (albeit at a moderate loss).
If I were in that situation, I'd "upgrade" to 2nd edition and have them send me that. YMMV I wish that were the case/an option in the equally deplorable kickstarter I went in on (Robotech) but they haven't released anything in years and I have no interest in their crappy rpg rules straight out of and stuck in the 80s. I'd jump at the chance to convert my remaining retail pledge value into Savage Worlds Rifts stock of my choice but that's a license given to a separate company so no chance of that.
Pacific wrote: I would have just loved that female predator miniature... oh well.. :(
To be honest I am surprised the female pred isn't available at retail yet - all of the other wave 2 stuff can be purchased online, and the people who have her were those lucky enough to get their Wave 2 stuff shipped to them.
YMMV but I wasn't aware of that and it doesn't bother me now that I am. If you play it like a minis game then the minis should be painted so no problem there and if you don't prefer to actually paint your minis (like most board gamers I've known) then you probably won't care about the plastic color either as long as it is consistent within the same box. Is the issue that they were a different color before? I thought they were whatever color resin Prodos had on hand with the 1st edition (iirc warzone changed color multiple times but I'm not sure if AVP did).
Or you're just morally opposed to pink xenomorphs?
JohnHwangDD wrote:It's a board game, so the pieces should be molded in color.
Did blue, green, and pink get demoted ala Pluto and aren't colors anymore? Or are you saying they primed those colors and the actual resin is just blah grey like 1st ed? Do you just not like the colors they chose specifically? I'm still not sure what you're trying to say.
JohnHwangDD wrote:Colonial Marines are blue instead of green... Predators are green instead of tan... Aliens are pink instead of charcoal...
Jarek and crew have fethed up use of colors for components before. Remember when they ran out of the black plastic stands for doors and sent out all kinds of bright colors?
More troublesome is the Marines in 2nd Edition being WAY out of scale with 1st edition, making it hard to expand your army if you so choose (since only the 1st edition ones are available as expansions).
Can't wait to see which scale the Alternate Marines end up being (if they ever actually produce them). 1st edition scale? 2nd edition scale? Or something completely new?
CptJake wrote:Jarek and crew have fethed up use of colors for components before. Remember when they ran out of the black plastic stands for doors and sent out all kinds of bright colors?
More troublesome is the Marines in 2nd Edition being WAY out of scale with 1st edition, making it hard to expand your army if you so choose (since only the 1st edition ones are available as expansions).
Can't wait to see which scale the Alternate Marines end up being (if they ever actually produce them). 1st edition scale? 2nd edition scale? Or something completely new?
Something similar happened with warzone, didn't it? I recall there being a scale change there as well (even sooner iirc) with some retail models being out of scale with their shipped out kickstarter versions.
JohnHwangDD wrote:I'm saying that those pieces should have been molded in more appropriate colors, that the selected colors were poorly chosen.
So it was the pink xenomorphs! I knew it! Perfectly reasonable to not like the colors as it's a preference.
CptJake wrote: More troublesome is the Marines in 2nd Edition being WAY out of scale with 1st edition, making it hard to expand your army if you so choose (since only the 1st edition ones are available as expansions).
Can't wait to see which scale the Alternate Marines end up being (if they ever actually produce them). 1st edition scale? 2nd edition scale? Or something completely new?
The newer marines are definately smaller, though it's not quite so bad as I thought from looking at the comparison shot between smartgunners. Here's a bunch more comparison shots :
In all honesty I doubt we'll ever see the alternate sculpt marines. Why would Prodos bother producing more 1st edition stuff? Seems like at the moment they're putting their resources into Warzone. After that I'd expect 2nd edition AvP add-on packs.
In all honesty I doubt we'll ever see the alternate sculpt marines. Why would Prodos bother producing more 1st edition stuff? Seems like at the moment they're putting their resources into Warzone. After that I'd expect 2nd edition AvP add-on packs.
If they are not going to produce what they sold, they need to be honest (novel concept for them) and tell us and give us a refund.
Jarek Ewertowski
13 April at 12:37
Hi there, the exchange program will be expanded for : Resin terrain for a Dropship (no certificate or wooden packaging) - more info post Salute. Resin terrain will be in production in June/July, thus, you will have time until then to decide. Thanks.
I avoided the Prodos stand like the plague... even though I have items still to be sent to me... just couldn't face speaking to them
Some Facebook comments though;
Ok, so I finally picked up the rest of my pledge from Salute. From what I could see there were quite a few guys who didn't get replies and we're disappointed their stuff wasn't there, my mate included.
To be fair to the chap who was running the collections he was having a miserable time but handled it well the best he could. I didn't envy him one bit.
There's lessons to be learned here for everybody including myself and how I see KS as a whole. It's a shame the situation turned sour which forced me to sell this and the rest of my stuff on ebay.
Good luck to everyone who are still out of pocket I hope you get sorted soon. But I'm happy my journey has come to an end.
Oh and ps the rule book is a lot smaller than expected. Kind of graphic novel thickness but smaller in size.
No Jarek that I could see. Guy running it had lost the will to live.
He actually told my mate he hated this job.
Oh well.
To be honest....the stall was busy selling. One guy running the collections, while one Prodos was next door buying spectre and one sat down on the floor chilling. That was an hour of the place opening.
The AvP unleashed book they had at Salute is equivalent to the Warzone "Core Protocols" book - the small A5 format mini rulebook.. basically the rules and the factions without much (or any) fluff.
Siygess wrote: The AvP unleashed book they had at Salute is equivalent to the Warzone "Core Protocols" book - the small A5 format mini rulebook.. basically the rules and the factions without much (or any) fluff.
So well worth the 25 GBP I paid for a hard back rule book...
Don't worry, won't stick around. Just wanted to share a little thing:
Hi,
This items will be shipped to you this week:
Facehuggers x9 1,
M Sentry guns x2 1,
Half synthetic (Obj. Marker) x4 1,
M Sergeant x1 2, P Female Predator x1 1, P Young Blood x3 2, Hardback Rulebook 1, Lieutenant Linn Kurosawa 1, Major Dutch Schaefer 1,
Facehuggers x7 1
M Sentry guns x2 1,
A Facehuggers x5 5,
M Sentry guns x2 1,
P Spear (Obj. Marker) x4 1,
Last items that we didnt yet produce and cant send to you are:
M Colonial Marines x5 (Add-on)( 3 ) - 15 £
Extra bits (3heads, 4 guns)( 1 ) - 5 £
Do you wish to swap them for anything in value of 20GBP?
We stated many times that we will fulfil all the kickstarter items.
Best Regards
Michal
W dniu 19.04.2017 o 22:21, "René Ulmer" pisze:
I've got a fairly easy question for you and your company of scammers. Actually it's two:
a) WILL YOU EVER SHIP OUT THE STUFF YOU OWE PEOPLE?
b) WILL YOU EVER PRODUCE THE MISSING THINGS BACKERS PAID YEARS AGO, LIKE THE ALTERNATE MARINES; THE MISSING OBJECTIVE MARKERS AND MORE STUFF?
You still owe me goods worth about 250GBP and I'm among the luckier ones who actually received part of what they backed.
For what it's worth to anybody still in the pipes and waiting
michal.pawlaczyk@prodos.co.uk Sad one has to resort to that kind of tone to get any direct answer ...
I'll see, if stuff will actually arrive within the next three weeks.
Siygess wrote: The AvP unleashed book they had at Salute is equivalent to the Warzone "Core Protocols" book - the small A5 format mini rulebook.. basically the rules and the factions without much (or any) fluff.
So well worth the 25 GBP I paid for a hard back rule book...
Well, it IS a hardback book. Er, that's about all I can say lol.
Siygess wrote: The AvP unleashed book they had at Salute is equivalent to the Warzone "Core Protocols" book - the small A5 format mini rulebook.. basically the rules and the factions without much (or any) fluff.
So well worth the 25 GBP I paid for a hard back rule book...
Well, it IS a hardback book. Er, that's about all I can say lol.
I'm really pleased the retail price is cheaper than what I paid for it a few years ago. Combined with the fact that if you ordered one now, you would actually get it (unlike myself), I'm not so sure my investment has panned out.
All the disappointment on the KS aside for those involved -- how is the AvP 2nd ed gameplay as a whole? My FLGS has one sitting on the shelf for like 40$ and was curious
ncshooter426 wrote: All the disappointment on the KS aside for those involved -- how is the AvP 2nd ed gameplay as a whole? My FLGS has one sitting on the shelf for like 40$ and was curious
Haven't bought anything past the 1st version but keep looking online at the expansion kits. Hope the do some more marine kits as the 5 guys really aren't enough and would like to make a gaming force based on the usmc.
Loath to give prodos any cash being as how they've treated the guys that funded the game but the sculpts really are nice.
Moses Bad wrote: Don't worry, won't stick around. Just wanted to share a little thing:
Hi,
This items will be shipped to you this week:
Facehuggers x9 1,
M Sentry guns x2 1,
Half synthetic (Obj. Marker) x4 1,
M Sergeant x1 2, P Female Predator x1 1, P Young Blood x3 2, Hardback Rulebook 1, Lieutenant Linn Kurosawa 1, Major Dutch Schaefer 1,
Facehuggers x7 1
M Sentry guns x2 1,
A Facehuggers x5 5,
M Sentry guns x2 1,
P Spear (Obj. Marker) x4 1,
Last items that we didnt yet produce and cant send to you are:
M Colonial Marines x5 (Add-on)( 3 ) - 15 £
Extra bits (3heads, 4 guns)( 1 ) - 5 £
Do you wish to swap them for anything in value of 20GBP?
We stated many times that we will fulfil all the kickstarter items.
Best Regards
Michal
W dniu 19.04.2017 o 22:21, "René Ulmer" pisze:
I've got a fairly easy question for you and your company of scammers. Actually it's two:
a) WILL YOU EVER SHIP OUT THE STUFF YOU OWE PEOPLE?
b) WILL YOU EVER PRODUCE THE MISSING THINGS BACKERS PAID YEARS AGO, LIKE THE ALTERNATE MARINES; THE MISSING OBJECTIVE MARKERS AND MORE STUFF?
You still owe me goods worth about 250GBP and I'm among the luckier ones who actually received part of what they backed.
For what it's worth to anybody still in the pipes and waiting
michal.pawlaczyk@prodos.co.uk Sad one has to resort to that kind of tone to get any direct answer ...
I'll see, if stuff will actually arrive within the next three weeks.
Good luck on this - let us know if / when you receive this little lot. Crazy isn't it that we have to chase them so much
I need to check what's left of my pledge, think it's the facehuggers, clear pred (x1) and multi part marines (I'm not optimistic of getting them despite Michals' assurance to you...)
As requested, an update. The stuff actually arrived without adding any funds in forms of buying more from their store.
All that's missing now are the bits and the second type print of marines.
Just wondering ... exactly how did Prodos imagine the player to swap those heads, if they're always part of the mold ...
So after roughly 4 years they "only" still owe us (wifey and me) 51 GBP.
No reaction from Michael regarding my rants (wanna call it an outbreak?) concerning the hardback being sold 10 bucks cheaer than what we paid for or that those conversion kits should be included for free for all backers since the original rules are not really any good.
The 2nd edition conversion should at least be given to folks still waiting for all their paid for product, especially when we paid over current MSRP for the hard back rule book and for other things as well, not to mention years of waiting.
CptJake wrote: The 2nd edition conversion should at least be given to folks still waiting for all their paid for product, especially when we paid over current MSRP for the hard back rule book and for other things as well, not to mention years of waiting.
Agreed. If you didn't even have the first edition in your hands before the second edition went up for sale, you really ought to get the upgrade kit included in your pledge when you finally get it.
Will that actually happen? Well, something's gotta go right eventually..
Guys am making some enquiries will let you know what result I get.
Couple of questions don't know if anyone knows the answers
- How does the new 2nd ed. stuff scale with the original sets?
- Has anyone had a chance to play the tabletop game yet, and if so how is it?
Boardgame is fine but I don't think it really captures 'Aliens', of having marines moving about in an installation to rescue colonists, and crapping themselves with the thought of Alien warriors suddenly coming out of the god-damn walls.
At this point I'm thinking of a couple of ways to bring in the authentic feel of the 2nd film. Either try and get hold of the old Aliens RPG and introduce some miniature elements, or perhaps some kind of basic Infinity re-working (using some of the mechanics of hiding/camo, writing down the position of Aliens on a map before hand etc.)
With the aliens it is hard to judge. They may be taller, but because of the varied poses I think you could get away with it. The most important thing (IMHO) is that the heads and tails are the same size. The Predators are pretty good. Maybe the 1.0 ones are.. 5% taller? But I don't think you'd have any problem mixing them on the table. The marines are harder to explain away because the 1.0 models are about a head taller, and noticeably (15%?) chunkier, especially in the torso and head sizes. I think if it bugged me, I wouldn't use the 5 marines that came in the 2.0 box and would instead just play with the marines from 1.0 (plus the alternate marines that aren't done yet, assuming they are the same size as the other 1.0 marines lol)
Of course when you look at the smartgunners, and then you look at the height difference between - say - Drake and Vasquez - maybe it isn't too bad..
Siygess wrote: With the aliens it is hard to judge. They may be taller, but because of the varied poses I think you could get away with it. The most important thing (IMHO) is that the heads and tails are the same size. The Predators are pretty good. Maybe the 1.0 ones are.. 5% taller? But I don't think you'd have any problem mixing them on the table. The marines are harder to explain away because the 1.0 models are about a head taller, and noticeably (15%?) chunkier, especially in the torso and head sizes. I think if it bugged me, I wouldn't use the 5 marines that came in the 2.0 box and would instead just play with the marines from 1.0 (plus the alternate marines that aren't done yet, assuming they are the same size as the other 1.0 marines lol)
Spoiler:
*snip*
Of course when you look at the smartgunners, and then you look at the height difference between - say - Drake and Vasquez - maybe it isn't too bad..
Spoiler:
I was going to post that WW1 lineup of differing height soldiers but your last in movie pic does the job quicte well. I'd say the marines are the easier to explain as people come in vastly different sizes in the military with rare exception (like pre-war Nazi SS). The issue for me is though that it doesn't translate well to the table top IMO. On the tabletop, difference of 50+ percentile in body type just ends up looking like you're mismatching different lines of figures and hoping folks won't notice instead of showcasing potential diversity in human body types.
Yeah, that's pretty damning and not accidental. IIRC, they changed the Warzone figure scale after the kickstarter as well (although in that case people actually got their figs in a relatively timely fashion before the change).
Hmm.. So as I have already put together mk1 marines, now becomes an issue finding some others of those (and some conversion work I guess, as I don't think those alternative pose guys ever saw the light of day..)
Buddy got to play 2nd edition this weekend. I caught the tail end of it. Really great figures and tiles. He mentioned you can play a wargame version of this (no tiles needed and models have points). Is that correct?
Eitherway, 3 of us now bought 2nd edition.
With the scale being really off, hesitant to buy any addon booster packs of guys until they bring it in to the new scale...if ever
CptJake wrote: Alien add ons should work, the scaling own those wouldn't be as much of an issue. You want the Queen to be BIG for example...
Well each of us would like one of the three races. I like the preds, buddy likes aliens and the other would like the marines. Yea, id guess the alien scale wouldn't matter but marines and preds would a lot I imagine.
Moses Bad wrote: Don't worry, won't stick around. Just wanted to share a little thing:
Hi,
This items will be shipped to you this week:
Facehuggers x9 1,
M Sentry guns x2 1,
Half synthetic (Obj. Marker) x4 1,
M Sergeant x1 2, P Female Predator x1 1, P Young Blood x3 2, Hardback Rulebook 1, Lieutenant Linn Kurosawa 1, Major Dutch Schaefer 1,
Facehuggers x7 1
M Sentry guns x2 1,
A Facehuggers x5 5,
M Sentry guns x2 1,
P Spear (Obj. Marker) x4 1,
Last items that we didnt yet produce and cant send to you are:
M Colonial Marines x5 (Add-on)( 3 ) - 15 £
Extra bits (3heads, 4 guns)( 1 ) - 5 £
Do you wish to swap them for anything in value of 20GBP?
We stated many times that we will fulfil all the kickstarter items.
Best Regards
Michal
W dniu 19.04.2017 o 22:21, "René Ulmer" pisze:
I've got a fairly easy question for you and your company of scammers. Actually it's two:
a) WILL YOU EVER SHIP OUT THE STUFF YOU OWE PEOPLE?
b) WILL YOU EVER PRODUCE THE MISSING THINGS BACKERS PAID YEARS AGO, LIKE THE ALTERNATE MARINES; THE MISSING OBJECTIVE MARKERS AND MORE STUFF?
You still owe me goods worth about 250GBP and I'm among the luckier ones who actually received part of what they backed.
For what it's worth to anybody still in the pipes and waiting
michal.pawlaczyk@prodos.co.uk Sad one has to resort to that kind of tone to get any direct answer ...
I'll see, if stuff will actually arrive within the next three weeks.
I sent an email to the address you provided and the guy got back to me saying that they would send me the rest of my stuff this week. A short while later I got another email confirming that my order is now being shipped.
CptJake wrote: Alien add ons should work, the scaling own those wouldn't be as much of an issue. You want the Queen to be BIG for example...
Well each of us would like one of the three races. I like the preds, buddy likes aliens and the other would like the marines. Yea, id guess the alien scale wouldn't matter but marines and preds would a lot I imagine.
I think the Preds will be okay too (see my picture above) but the Marines are where the difference will be noticeable.
Played a two-player (xenomorphs against marines) session of 2E this evening with my buddy judgedoug. We had a ton of fun, It's worth noting that 2E comes witha flyer advertising the expansion packs and ot doesn't seem like they have been repackaged. I wonder if this means all expansion products will remain at the 1E scale.
Just a little heads up I happened to see by accident:
Now they're having an APC up on pre-order. Being the disgruntled customer I am I immediately wrote a mail asking if they're proud of themselves ... having dished out a second ed, the dropship and now this while neither having produced all the promised stuff from before nor having shipped to everybody.
I know that some folks have started to receive the android objective markers, but haven't seen anything else past that...(if anyone reads this and wants to sell their KS exclusives please PM me- thanks in advance)
Raoh76 wrote: I know that some folks have started to receive the android objective markers, but haven't seen anything else past that...(if anyone reads this and wants to sell their KS exclusives please PM me- thanks in advance)
The only 'KS Exclusive' was supposed to be the Berserker Pred. Everything else should eventually by for sale on the Prodos Website. Chances are if you wait for what you want and order it direct you'll get it before those who ordered it via the KS.
I've finally given in and decided enough is enough. I can no longer be bothered to wait it out for the 'unapproved' multi-part marines, so have emailed Prodos about exchanging them for the 2nd Edition Upgrade (both are listed as £15). Hopefully, 'if' my email is read / acknowledged, then I'll get the remainder of my pledge and be able to call it a day with Prodos once and for all. Let's see what happens...
Ruglud wrote: I've finally given in and decided enough is enough. I can no longer be bothered to wait it out for the 'unapproved' multi-part marines, so have emailed Prodos about exchanging them for the 2nd Edition Upgrade (both are listed as £15). Hopefully, 'if' my email is read / acknowledged, then I'll get the remainder of my pledge and be able to call it a day with Prodos once and for all. Let's see what happens...
Tried it several times myself and have been ignored.
Ruglud wrote: I've finally given in and decided enough is enough. I can no longer be bothered to wait it out for the 'unapproved' multi-part marines, so have emailed Prodos about exchanging them for the 2nd Edition Upgrade (both are listed as £15). Hopefully, 'if' my email is read / acknowledged, then I'll get the remainder of my pledge and be able to call it a day with Prodos once and for all. Let's see what happens...
Tried it several times myself and have been ignored.
Yeah... Would be nice though to get closure although I'm not overly optimistic on this working either...
Im pretty sure this is going to die. Company may keep in but AvP is pretty much over as far as I can tell. I was hopeful for what was mentioned on BGG from one of the creators/contractors of updating old stat cards etc but...
Went to Gencon and went to their booth. Had two small pillars of product. Nothing new besides the APC (which isn't really useable in the board game) All stock was 20% off and had very limited amounts. Mostly just marines, basic aliens, face huggers, and pred youngbloods. that was really about it. They were only accepting cash also. Been in the gaming industry long enough to know when your having a sale and only taking cash, its not a good thing.
Warzone was a bit rocky, but ended up largely fine (late, but about as much as I would have expected and ended up getting everything, even if some stuff got pushed to later waves).
When they announced AvP I was leery at best. It was a high profile licensed product, a brand new company that was still finding its feet, and it just felt like entirely the wrong move.
My hope at this point in time is that Prodos goes under, Modiphius grabs the rights to Warzone (not a stretch as they already do Mutant Chronicles and have a couple of small-skirmish games under their belt). It would be nice if AvP got grabbed, but in all honesty the miniature wargaming industry is usually not a great place to do expensive licenses unless you go all-in on it. Spartan couldn't hack Halo, Prodos couldn't hack AvP. You need to be ready to put the kind of work in to your license that, say, FFG did with Star Wars. This isn't the kind of thing a tiny company should attempt.
When they first announced the WZ KS I was excited to see my favourite game come back. But Prodos's complete -ing up of everything they have touched since that KS ended has made me not want to give them another dime. Their handling of AvP, the gobsmacking stupidity of Space Crusade, and their rather terrible attempts at PR (note: if you have a temper, hire someone to do PR for you!) has all been crap. The sooner they fade away and hand off to a company that I don't mind giving my money to the better.
So I have the biggest bad news for us my dear fellows (excuse my bad english I'm french and this vocabulary is a bit difficult for me) :
I was told few hours ago by a friend of mine that his friend, early backer like us, still hadn't received NOTHING (no starter box, no queen alien, no predalien... nothing !) tryed to buy the starter box V2 to get his pledge, using the promo code. He goes to the official website, try to login... "access denied". Try one more time : "access denied".
He send a mail and the answered is awesome : "Hello, we have re-buy prodos but not the debts. So all the ancient logins had been erased. You can't get your pledge from us, your promo-code is invalided and we invite you to fix your problem with the previous boss (jarek of course). Sorry etc etc etc..."
So no need to hope anything... As Hudson said it : "Game over, man,game over..."
Thank you jarek for all this Really, you're the best I've ever seen...
So, if I understood you correctly, Morikun, Prodos tanked.
Not only did they not send everything, they also scammed (I think it's save to call it that) everybody who was not a nagging pain in the ass.
Doesn't astonish me, this went from bad to worse to a scam, still sad.
I wonder if the remaining people can somehow join to sue Jarek for his last pair of used underwear and (may sound tough, but I think it's legit) send him to the streets begging for money.
Moses Bad wrote: So, if I understood you correctly, Morikun, Prodos tanked.
Not only did they not send everything, they also scammed (I think it's save to call it that) everybody who was not a nagging pain in the ass.
Doesn't astonish me, this went from bad to worse to a scam, still sad.
I wonder if the remaining people can somehow join to sue Jarek for his last pair of used underwear and (may sound tough, but I think it's legit) send him to the streets begging for money.
Unfortunately, It seems to be. I've ask for a copy of the mail sent to the friend (in France). I'll post here when I get it.
Prodos seems to be lead by another boss who is not obliged to fix the AVP KS project... So long cloaked pred, alien ship...
If that is true, I wonder if the "new owner" is another family member like when Archon was set up under Jarek's father's name and assets were transferred (but not debts) last time.
Well that sounds odd as just today I got an email back from 'Izabela' of Prodos Games, letting me know that my reqeust for exchanging the unapproved multi-part marines for a 2nd ed. Upgrade kit has been processed and i'll be getting this, plus my remaining pledge items (7x facehuggers, cloaked pred, weyland yutani commandos)...
I've checked the Prodos AvP Facebook groups i'm on, but no hints as to anything. Be interested to see the email your friend received Morikun
I had to drop my pledge, looking to get back in and buy one. What was all released so far from the kickstarter, editions, etc? I couldnt even find the kiclstarter page anymore to remember what was available, exclusive, etc. What kickstarter only items were made? We're the cloaked predaters exclusive?
Game sounds good besides all the drama from prodos.
455_PWR wrote: I had to drop my pledge, looking to get back in and buy one. What was all released so far from the kickstarter, editions, etc? I couldnt even find the kiclstarter page anymore to remember what was available, exclusive, etc. What kickstarter only items were made? We're the cloaked predaters exclusive?
Game sounds good besides all the drama from prodos.
I heard some stuff was released, but not everything. I would not know since I received exactly nothing from my pledge. So my review of the game is that the rules are impossible to read because the paper is way too thin, and the miniature are made in some weird massless material.
Also, the Prodos are thieves and you should not reward their thieving with money.
I rarely post but thought i should wade in on this. i backed the kickstarter like many on here and went in for around £250-300 pledge.
changed all items in pledge manager to manufactured items roughly 18 months ago..heard nothing.on the 23rd of sept had an email confirming my pledge was being partially sent,didnt get my hopes up but a package arrived last thursday with everything i pledged for except the clear beserker pred..there was even extra parts and some extra facehuggers.In the whole time i have never sent a single email or any corrospondance to prodos so thought i would be at the back of the list.
maybe there is some hope for others on here.
455_PWR wrote: I had to drop my pledge, looking to get back in and buy one. What was all released so far from the kickstarter, editions, etc? I couldnt even find the kiclstarter page anymore to remember what was available, exclusive, etc. What kickstarter only items were made? We're the cloaked predaters exclusive?
Game sounds good besides all the drama from prodos.
To be honest the AvP 2.0 boxed retail game is pretty decent, and in many areas a marked improvement over what came in the KS (particularly the game tiles). If you want to play it, I'd get that and any of the extras that you fancy (Powerloader, Alien Queen etc) and forget the KS even existed.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Morikun wrote: So I have the biggest bad news for us my dear fellows (excuse my bad english I'm french and this vocabulary is a bit difficult for me) :
I was told few hours ago by a friend of mine that his friend, early backer like us, still hadn't received NOTHING (no starter box, no queen alien, no predalien... nothing !) tryed to buy the starter box V2 to get his pledge, using the promo code. He goes to the official website, try to login... "access denied". Try one more time : "access denied".
He send a mail and the answered is awesome : "Hello, we have re-buy prodos but not the debts. So all the ancient logins had been erased. You can't get your pledge from us, your promo-code is invalided and we invite you to fix your problem with the previous boss (jarek of course). Sorry etc etc etc..."
So no need to hope anything... As Hudson said it : "Game over, man,game over..."
Thank you jarek for all this Really, you're the best I've ever seen...
Time to think about other things...
Sorry for the bad news...
Serviteur,
Morikun
That.. doesnt make a whole lot of sense. The only login the friend of a friend would have had is for the pledge manager (calc.prodos or something). The prodos store accounts are not linked to pledges and you have to do something as low tech as putting the request for your pledge in the comments of the order, so even if he had a store account and somehow it is closed, there is nothing stopping the friend of a friend from creating a new account on their store and doing it. I guess he would just need the details from his pledge manager confirmation email. For reference my prodos store account was created in early 2015 and is still working fine.
The promo code thing is also odd because the only code I am aware of is the appology code that came with the earlier waves of AvP shipment that gave you a discount on their webstore.. but sure, it's possible there is some code I am not aware of.
Got a 'tracking number' email today - tells me that my stuff is in Warsaw at the moment. Hopefully not long till it's in my grubby hands (finally)
For reference, I emailed these addresses:
exchange@prodosgames.com (no response from this one)
service@prodos.co.uk (auto reply from this to say: 'Thank you for submitting your request. Depending on the type of request, please allow at least 72 hours to 5 days for a response')
michal.pawlaczyk@prodos.co.uk (no response)
isabelle@prodosgames.com (responded within 2 hours of my email - and has been the one to confirm exchange of multi-part marines for 2nd Ed. Upgrade set, dispatch and tracking reference)
it's from the beasts of war AvP thread (which is almost as angry and fed up as this one)
warzan9360p [Warren head of BoW]:
CALL FOR INPUT
Hi Guys
A Few weeks ago I said I would reach out to Prodos to try and get some clarity on the situation surrounding outstanding pledges etc for AVP.
I contacted them on the 24th Aug (it’s taken a little while due to conventions and commitments for both them and us to be fair), and have had a chance to get a quick chat with them about the confusion we have been seeing. (They have said they are still slowly but surely working through the process)
Anyway they have agreed to try and give as much clarity as they can on the different situations backers might find themselves in, and what specifically backers have to do or not do at this stage. (They explained quite a number of parcels get returned due to out of date addresses etc)
So here is my plan.
I’m putting out a call to you guys for any related questions you may have (especially if you are a backer and want to know your next steps etc)
I hope to gather these questions up over the course of the next two weeks or so, and the team over at prodos have said they’ll work with us to get an article or something together for the 20th Oct.
Obviously, I’m hoping we can get some clarity to the situation and help backers see what options if any they have and take the right next steps.
Some questions I picked out of this thread before I will include are…
1) What is currently ready to go? 2) What is in the approval pipeline? And any timeframes to flow through the pipe. 3) What’s left go into approval pipeline? any timeframes before it goes over and reasons it’s not yet gone for approval. 4) Progress with those backers who went in for the exchange program. (How do people join that program) 5) What’s happening with backers who haven’t received their 1st edition game now 2nd edition is out.
Feel free to reach out to others you know who may be missing a pledge and let them chime in here.
it may well do no good, but at least is seems is willing to talk which might, at least, give an idea of where things might be (and whether its worth waiting for certain as yet unproduced items)
responding there if you are missing things might also show quite how many backers are still waiting for stuff which will help deny or confirm whatever Prodos says
I've been trying to keep up with this thread - what IS still outstanding from this KS? I think last I heard it was the clear preds and alternate sculpt marines?
Be interesting to see what BoW can get from Prodos... Not holding my breath though for a detailed response, but you never know...
Stormonu wrote: I've been trying to keep up with this thread - what IS still outstanding from this KS? I think last I heard it was the clear preds and alternate sculpt marines?
Did the 3D terrain ever materialize?
AFAIK... Alternate multi-part marines; cloaked young bloods, cloaked beserker; cloaked fempred; Marine Sergeant; extra weapon / heads sprue; Resin terrain. I think that's it - but the total lack of comms means it's difficult to know for sure
I'm pleased to say though that I've finally reached the end of this saga and have all of my pledge in hand as of today... The exchange worked and I have the v2.0 upgrade in place of the multi-part marines. So that's it, it's been a crazy ride and I'm glad it's over for me. I hope everyone else waiting gets what they pledged for though, I can only offer the advice to consider the exchange program if you are waiting on unapproved items, but get that not everyone wants to do that (especially those waiting on the expensive resin terrain...)
Cloaked preds - looks like I've got all three here although ridiculous amount of parts and I'm thinking it'll be difficult to glue these without fogging the 'clear' plastic !! Disappointing considering what the prototypes looked like, but hey ho...
Facehuggers, I quite like these even though they are incorparted into the base. Oh and note that the delivery note is from 'Archon' and not Prodos...
Ruglud wrote: AFAIK... Alternate multi-part marines; cloaked young bloods, cloaked beserker; cloaked fempred; Marine Sergeant; extra weapon / heads sprue; Resin terrain. I think that's it - but the total lack of comms means it's difficult to know for sure
I'm glad that the war is over for yet another person, although I guess for most people, the difference between the actual fulfilment of the KS and the intent they imagine Prodos have is not something they really care about at this point. By that, I mean, in each backer's head they have a fulfilment timeline in their head, and if it delivers by date X, a KS is on time. If it delivers by date Y, it is late, and if it has not delivered by date Y, the project creator is a thieving scumbag and has run off with my money. X and Y are going to be different for everyone but 99% of the people who are still waiting on something, I imagine they are well past the date Y threshold and won't believe there is ever going to be a date Z (the day it does actually arrive) until that actually happens.. and when it DOES happen, they will only believe it was because they shouted and screamed and threatened.. when in reality, it is a matter of waiting (even longer!), solving a problem, or trying to opt out (e.g. the exchange program) and then get REALLY lucky and have someone actually process your request (which seems like a D100 roll right now..)
It's no way to run a business. It wasn't any way to run a business when fulfilling Warzone, either, yet here we are doing exactly the same thing again only with a few extra ingredients to spice things up a bit.
As for what we are still waiting on, you are correct Ruglud. I believe that the cloaked single figure preds were going to be done in clear resin, in-house, but we have no news on that. Multi part marines were expected for the UKGE but they were a no-show but I'm not too worried about either of those because there is at least a plan for them, even if it takes another 6-12 months and a whole lot of hair loss for them to finally appear. If the multi part marines ever pop into existence I am sure the weapons and heads will too, because they will almost certainly be the same components from the multi-part marine kit only without the bodies and legs. I suspect the Marine Sgt will still happen (even though we heard nothing about it) because Prodos have already created one and supplied it with the APC. Worse case scenario, we get that model with a slightly different pose. What we have heard nothing about, and what I suspect could.. maybe.. very possibly never happen is the 3D terrain. They have the capability to do it (certainly Prodos have been churning out a lot of Warzone vehicles lately and a corridor section would probably have about the same footprint as one of those vehicles and would use only a little more resin) but I think the logistics of actually making them all and shipping them.. well, that's the trick.
..but who knows? Maybe they will surprise us all and produce those 3D terrain pieces someday, too!
BoW has been such an apologist for Prodos I can't see them tackling the issues objectively, especially with their "we love everything all the time because we want your ad money" approach to the industry.
Nostromodamus wrote: BoW has been such an apologist for Prodos I can't see them tackling the issues objectively, especially with their "we love everything all the time because we want your ad money" approach to the industry.
Heh. Just last night I finished watching season 2 of the Expanse, and now whenever I see the topic of Prodos come up I am going to have a hard time picturing the anti-Prodos brigade as anything other than the angry Belter mob. Sure, there's a community spirit there but they don't achieve anything but lynch a few people and start a few fires while they align people into very simple "For us or against us" camps. People may not care for BoW's "Give Peace a Chance!" approach to the industry, appeasement instead of the knife, but if the sorry history of this thread proves anything is that persistence, actual facts and co-operation even when you know it isn't really deserved is the only way to get gak done when it comes to Prodos. It isn't guaranteed, but a 20% chance of something is a whole lot better than a 100% chance of nothing.
I can tell you this. It has been... 8 months since we have had an official update on AvP? BoW will, at the very least, get a statement and an update out of Prodos, even if you chose not to believe what they write.. even if the promised "meat" of the update is further delayed..
Siygess wrote: BoW will, at the very least, get a statement and an update out of Prodos
I'd be very surprised if it's anything more than the "we're working on it, it's as much a hassle for us as it is for the backers, we're waiting on approvals, blah blah blah" we've been hearing for years already.
Thing is, they're getting items outside of the parameters of the KS (dropship, APC, 2nd edition) designed, approved and manufactured with no issues, so why is it so hard to fulfill the KS orders?
From what I've garnered from other KSs, the new stuff gets fast-tracked because it bring in a new influx of money (despite the fact you have to pay to have it manufactured in the first place...). The KS stuff, they already got the money, won't get any more, and thus there's no rush to get it out the door.
Stormonu wrote: From what I've garnered from other KSs, the new stuff gets fast-tracked because it bring in a new influx of money (despite the fact you have to pay to have it manufactured in the first place...). The KS stuff, they already got the money, won't get any more, and thus there's no rush to get it out the door.
That doesn't make sense, they could (and would) sell all items from the KS with the exception of a single KS exclusive figure. Hell, they've sold KS items to folks who did not participate in the KS before the KS folks got theirs. It would seem a low overhead way to get $$$ since the design and manufacture costs are already covered by the KS.
Stormonu wrote: From what I've garnered from other KSs, the new stuff gets fast-tracked because it bring in a new influx of money (despite the fact you have to pay to have it manufactured in the first place...). The KS stuff, they already got the money, won't get any more, and thus there's no rush to get it out the door.
Sort of. What happened is they spent all the KS money, due to mismanagement, not enough experience, and other complications.
To ensure this doesn't happen with "newer" Kickstarters, they only spend that KS money on those KS. In terms of Prodos, only AvP sales/profit of products related to AvP are funding the distribution of missing/remaining KS pledges and rewards. In other words, they could make a $1M profit on another KS (they aren't, but if they would) it still wouldn't help AvP. Only AvP sales/profit is going towards AvP stuff at the moment. It might have something to do with their contract as well, there was some re-arrangement of management which might have segregated some of the accounts for this particular contract.
Other KS (not Prodos) have previously done something similar, where new Kickstarters end up paying for older KS. This has lead to other issues so it isn't smart businesswise and is only short term. There was a shift where some companies, as they got better experience with handling things dealt with 'newer' KS better while still falling behind on older ones. Either way it is bad business and usually ends to loss for the company as well as becoming a KS that just stops and doesn't deliver at all. MegaCon Games and Artistic Justice Games is an example that sort of fell into this. Mantic almost did for a bit, but I think have gotten better at their KS management of it.
Never thought I'd be posting this - but here we are.
My AVP KS journey is complete! Following the advice upthread to contact Izabela at Prodos I did, and asked if I could swap the still MIA alternate marines for some Aliens. She replied very quickly, said yes, and a few days later they have arrived in the UK.
Painful KS experience all round, but now complete, and I do have lots of lovely minis to show fro it at least.
1°) On september 26th, I sent her a demand about the very last minis I still missing (I never got any answers from jarek, michal, the official prodos email, even the official webstore email).
Personnally, I'm lucky enough to still miss only the cloaked predators, tokens predators, and the predette but I know that many backers aren't so lucky.
Wow !!! So fast after many years of... of nothing indeed ?! In about a week, Izabela fixed a situation where this jarek never been capable to do so months after months...
Thank you so much my Dear Izabela. Really. Thank you so so much !!
JohnHwangDD wrote: So it only took 4 years (to the day) from when the campaign started? Niiice...
Yeah, and for some of us it isn't over yet....the very polite Izabela has informed me that I will be getting my last £100 worth of minis but most of that is alt/add-on marines. Which haven't been produced yet. And when I asked what scale these marines are I was told 1st ed and 2nd ed marines were the same scale. WTF. I can't help but think I am going to get shafted. Again.
At long last, after 3 years and 11 months, they got my final shipment to me. It is wrong, and they know it is wrong, but it is the same monetary value as my pledge so I am going to take what they have sent me and never deal with the most dishonest, disreputable and disappointing gaming company I have ever had the misfortune to give money to. Bunch of utter [MOD EDIT - Please do NOT use workarounds for the Expletive Filter - Alpharius]
PRODOS stand got robbed of €7k cash at Essen. Drop in the ocean compared to how much they've robbed from their KS backers. See their FB page for details.
Still waiting for my stuff from the KS I backed 4 years ago............
I'm not going to be glad about theft, but I'm not exactly going to be sympathetic either to that situation given all of the shady crap Prodos has done.
I rate my AVP experience against the Battle Systems terrain I got interested in to play it on.
So while we wait for the outstanding AVP shipments, Battle Systems have launched their *fifth*
It's Cyberpunk Terrain. It can be purchased separately from the Core Space Game that's the focus of the Kickstarter, and will add to the very AVP friendly terrain they've already done.
I'm planning on combining it with their Urban set (an add on in the Kickstarter) to build a Predator II setting.
There was also that Alien 3 script about the Aliens let loose in a populated area, and it will work really well for that too.
As you people might've heard, there are talks of Fox selling all their not-TV-stuff to Disney.
In worst case scenario, big D will revoke Prodos' license and everybody still waiting for their stuff or holding out for the still unproduced stuff may get shafted even more ...
Guess I'll bite the bullet and have my outstanding stuff replaced with items that are actually existing.
Moses Bad wrote: As you people might've heard, there are talks of Fox selling all their not-TV-stuff to Disney.
In worst case scenario, big D will revoke Prodos' license and everybody still waiting for their stuff or holding out for the still unproduced stuff may get shafted even more ...
Guess I'll bite the bullet and have my outstanding stuff replaced with items that are actually existing.
Good luck. I’ve tried contacting them several times to do that and have yet to receive a reply.
Regardless of the potential buyout, I’ve written this off already.
I don’t know how I feel the idea of the House of Mouse acquiring the likes of Alien, but considering how practically nothing changed (outwardly) for FFG’s X-wing when Disney acquired Lucasfilm, I’m doubtful much will change with this KS (or Prodos - I’ve not seen Disney turn down money on anything, though they may ask for more).
Disney will honor the existing contract. But that's as far as it'll go. Disney won't likely extend the contract, or offer new ones.
As for what Prodos owes, that is still outstanding and a change in the licensing doesn't affect what the agreement was. It might mean that Prodos could be compelled to refund instead of deliver.
Looks like Prodos is still messing up their shipping, etc. etc. From the Vanguard comments:
"Cherise Cobert Superbacker 2 days ago: It's incredibly disappointing that even after all this time, the "Buffalo, WY" issue still hasn't been resolved.I do have good news for anyone whose packages get routed there, however! Apparently, the issue is that addresses are formatted incorrectly on the labels. The correct address IS there, but so is info that causes packages to ultimately be sent to the USPS facility in Buffalo, WY. Thankfully (for us, at least), USPS has received SO MANY of these packages that they've just begun marking them correctly, then sending them off where they're supposed to go. No more issues with the packages being sent all the way back to Poland! On the other hand, I'm sure it's a huge hassle for USPS and certainly causes delays for us. No idea why Archon hasn't fixed this after 1+ months."
"Scott Michelson 2 days ago: Well the tracking number said delivered. I got some cards and a few tokens in a small package no expansion or stretch goal stuff. It’s all I’m missing at the moment. Strange."
"Rob Superbacker on December 18 : @CREATOR THIS IS SERIOUSLY GETTING ME ANGRY ABOVE ANYTHING!!! WE PLEDGED A HECK OF MONEY FOR OUR PAINTED PLEDGES OF LOAD AND WE ACCEPTED DELAYS AND QUITE A FEW OF THEM! BUT NO COMMENTS NO SIGN AT ALL NOTHING FOR ANOTHER TWO MONTHS THIS IS INSANE!!! LAUNCHING PROJECT AFTER PROJECT NOT FINISHING ANYTHING YOU PROMISED!!! THIS REALLY SUXX !!! YOU TOLD US TO DELIVER BY FEBRUARY 2017 !!! WE HAVE NOW 10 MONTHS LATER AND NOTHING IS DELIVERED !!! YOU SEEM TO MAKE IT 12 MONTHS AND MORE OR WHAT??? **** IT !!!
Lukas \[T]/ on December 18 : Hi! It does not look like we will get answers here :( Maybe someone of you guys know the card size for gear, character and forest cards? Thank you!
Amarice on December 15: I guess because planning and management are not their forte. They have so much going on, but they can't stop the KS train.
Missing avatar: Stylianos K. Superbacker on December 15: Why sending two Games one Week apart and Not combined shipping?
Brian Pittman LoGiudice Superbacker on December 15: Repeatedly I have asked for help. You messaged me back about a problem from the original Load campaign that has long since been solved. What is going on? Why cant I get help about my current issue? I am trying and have been trying so hard to complete my pledge but no one has ever answered my questions about the load essentials pledge.
Missing avatar: Andrew on December 15 : Morning, I logged in checking to make sure everything is okay with my pledge. IT says I don't have access to it anymore?
Missing avatar: Nathan on December 13 : I have been trying to get some help from them for a while now because on their website they have 0 information for me. I have back load, vow and re-load but according to their new website my account has no information. I tried contacting them to get this cleared up and they took a full month just to tell me what I already told them in my first email to them. This is ridiculous because they claim that vow has begun shipping but I have almost no confidence that I will ever actually see either my vow pledge or my re-load pledge. I just want confirmation on what they will be sending me to make sure that I will be getting what I paid for and I know that I filled out all pledge managers the day after getting the email that they were up so I do t understand how my account has no information to it. If anyone else is having anything as close to as hard of a time as me then no wonder they have 500 incomplete pledges.
Philoctetes Superbacker on December 13: Still waiting for a response.......
Florian Kolhammer Superbacker on December 11: I sent you a message 3 days ago, can you please answer?
Riccardo on December 11: I wrote to request a refund for two months but I never received an answer
Gary Quek Superbacker on December 10: @Archon, sent plenty of message using ks pm and fb message but didn’t receive any help to complete my pledge manage, please kindly assist
Andy Superbacker on December 8: @ Archon, I've sent you guys messages through your website and through KS and have yet to get any kind of response yet. I was wondering how I can upgrade my $1 pledge to the Epic Upgrade pledge. I was a late backer to LOAD pledge so I'm assuming that's why the Epic upgrade doesn't pop up. Some kind of response would be appreciated it, thanks.
probus11p said 1 day, 23 hours ago: Afternoon all, just wanted to join discussion.
I am the guy from Prodos Games.
English is my 2nd (in fact 3rd) language so sorry for any grammatical mistakes.
I scrolled back a few pages, to check comments and I think I could answer some of your questions.
I’ll be adding some jpg’s to back out my statements, I hope it will work (a new account limitations? )
1. PLEDGES: see screenshot Pledges .What ‘s left from AvP Kikstarter shipping ,this pledge manager was reset last year as we have found a serious issues with it and we needed to go pledge by pledge to re-do it) However the data in now, 95% correct: - Partially sent: 1389 this is a number of KS backers that received 2nd or 3rd wave of their KS (and still awaiting on some remaining items like heads or others) - Shipment: 457 this is the number of fully closed customers (all items delivered, closed ) - Awaiting 341 (here we have backers have not yet received anything or they had wave 1 only (just a game) (including backers that have closed the pledge manager but some data was/is missing for shipping) - Activated and unactivated (105 this number represent backers that have not completed the pledge manager at all)
2. They need to take ownership of their mistake – Thanks for this comment, let me bring a bit inside what we are doing, in my opinion, to take/keep the ownership :
- We are still delivering/shipping pledges to the backers, no one is hiding, “going out of the business”, selling business or is doing anything else to avoid the responsibility. Prodos is delivering and it will deliver it, regardless of the costs associated with it. Apart of that I am not sure what else we can do to take the ownership for our mistakes.
2. They need to apologise for lying.
I am more than happy to apologise for miscommunication. Please bear in mind, we had a marketing person in the team back in 2014, Mark Rapson (now Word Forged Games), and the issues really was more complex. I was the point of contact with FOX for approvals, Mark was doing marketing communication ( along with Rob iifc). When my frustration, due to lack of the contact gone through the roof Mark was stepping in. Anyhow bits of Information, if i was fortunate enough to reach anyone at FOX or got an email reply… was passed to Mark/Rob write an update. An really, we were giving in the updates information we had back then from fox. Unfortunately the information I was getting was in most of the cases wrong, like for instance: I was told that core game will be approved in June 2014, we got excited, announced shipping and all of that… than we got 7 months silence from Fox… in the end the game ,if i remember it correctly, was finally approved in September 2015. I counted 354 emails to fox and 4 (Four) back to us from them. Attached in an emial from us dated : 25.02.2015, all materials in there.
3 reputation – I personally agree with this, it’s clear, Prodos reputation is bad and regardless of our actions it will stay bad, this is how it works. It needs to factors to change it 1. finish delivering avp, 2 stay in the business another 5-6 years after competition of the AvP KS. Here I have to add my personal feelings about all of this. I think we’re victims of our own success, Prodos lack of experience in dealing with corporation got us into this issues we are now. It’s really only down to experience. In fact I was always wondering why the hell no one wanted AvP license before prodos from Fox, it’s clear that big boys can only work with big boys.. small developers with complex license products vs corporation are dead in the water.
4. communication – true, this one I have to say is one of the issue, the problem with it is whatever we say it will be labelled as a lie, thus, we are just making it happen by sending the pledges out.
5. Approved/ not approved – this is the main topic i wanted to really explain. Approval process for any item was really time consuming, I mean to get a product approved it takes, per product, not as complex like the board game, about 3 months (packaging, models, and tokens). in may cases we had so called Revise (44 of them) every revise made process to start from the beginning. In general, after sending all docs and product pictures, 1 step was to get a prototype approval based on style guide (3 weeks in average) then a physical prototype (4 weeks in average) and a manufacturing sample (5 weeks in average). as everything was going through a team of people in UK and USA… about 12 people in total, we almost always had some small changed (product was approved with changes, repeat process manufacturing sample, 5 weeks). Revised that was a nightmare, as it needed re-doing a model or packaging ect.
6. Financials – every not approved product was generating additional costs (design and development) , not to mention that the contractual request was to release a product to retail within 14 days of approval. So financially it was a shot in a foot for us. We needed to release the product, however out of 5-10 products sent for approval only 1 was approved. Fox request was to send it to retail and pay royalties, in the same time we needed to serve backers… impossible dual-task as we would need to ship every single approved item to backers in a separate parcel… in the end we divided and covered from Prodos pocket shipping multiply waves, math is simple here: each wave is 2300 backers * 28 GBP a parcel (average) = 64400 GBP a wave x3 waves = 193200 shipping alone, and we charged each backer for a single shipping 10 GBP (that was another issue) nowadays, we are able to ship for much lower cost that back in 2014 or 15 due to quantities of parcels shipped, however what was spend on it it will never be regained.
7. and a final word: WE COULD NOT talk bad about FOX, under any circumstances, otherwise they would just take the license away immediately , so we, me, Prodos, for taking responsibility for delivering this project took all the heat. Big fish ate the small one, the small fish is to blame.
Any questions, drop a line here and I’ll try to answer.
please, if I may ask. stay civil, the information I am giving you here is as much accurate as can be. Thanks.
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
probus11p said 1 day, 22 hours ago: I am scrolling through emails and I found this one: The day, that page was closed It was a right mess for us, Mark in a panic mode, made an update stating that it was us closing the page by mistake, if fact it was myself sending copy of prodos-fox emial conversation to KS to close it, they did that overnight. To be honest, to this day I don’t know what was the issues with the page, once they said because there was no Copyrights on pictures, then that we only should share pictures of the final product and on a face to face meeting that pressure was from the top as they have seen Kickstarter (by mistake) as an investors tool with profit share (that would mean that backers were getting some % of their IP…). Regardless, as you see we have been pushing as much as possible with really stupid statements to get approval(like we will have it in huge retail stores meaning a lot of money for you from royalties … )
Now I am talking a bit more freely about all of this, I got more to share, however I’ll wait for Fox Disney deal.
What I can add is that Prodos is not the only small developer that was put in a deep S. We have been in touch with tree other companies, 2 of them (small digital games developers) went bankrupt, that had licenses from FOX (simsons or something) and never got an approval on their materials and they have been forced to pay so called Minimum Guarantee (around 60k GBP). I think Prodos was lucky, thanks to KS (after all some online pressure on FOX was there, until we have been forced to close the page down). To back my statement I can say that license for Alien 2 is in hands of USA baased company for last 3 years and until now their product is not approved or released. There is one more game that meant to be released by French based company, Nostromo, i had a pleasure to play it this year at Essen, yes, approval again, well, they have been working on it 2 years with promises of release this Xmas.
Spoiler:
probus11p said 1 day, 7 hours ago: @bigfatfred Hi Simon,
Let me explain the story behind AvP 2nd ed.
At the end of 2015 our contract with Fox was ending, post that date we would not be able to get anything from FOX in terms of approvals. As a lot of the items were still not approved, keeping in mind you we got the license in 2013 and it was now 2015, we came to fox to discuss this issue. The consensus was that, we would get an extension on the license, with another Minimum Guarantee, however we would need a new product in stores to a. Keep AvP bringing profits to fulfil pledges once we get stuff approved b.) to make profit and pay for license extension fees.
Back in 2015, financially, Prodos only really existed from services it provided to other companies, the cost of idle design staff etc lead to ongoing costs and retail sales on AvP have not been as high as hoped. Then we had to pay an additional licence extension cost to FOX with hopes that at some point we would get approval on the final items. The alternative option was to not extend the licence and fail to continue to deliver pledges.
A team was put together to make the new game happen which would a. allow us to deliver pledges, b) get the money in that we needed to keep the company running as there were commitments made to staff and backers.
Development of this game took almost a year and in December 2016, I had a phone call from fox letting me know that they were pulling the plug on the new game. Consider that we had a team set up for this developing and designing the game and a full year “wasted”. The blow to the team and the company was significant. We have tried re-kitting models and reusing some of the content from this unreleased game so that not everything was lost however the company was in serous financial difficulty and facing possible bankruptcy due to the additional costs and bill from FOX.
As evidence that Prodos wasn’t sitting on its hands, see below a link to the unreleased rulebook for the game.
Well you’re probably wondering as to the reason as to why FOX pulled the game, to be honest, so was I and my team. Indeed many of us were wondering as to what was next. The reason given by FOX was that they were running(ruining depending on your view of the last few movies) a new strategy with AvP canon. I have nothing in writing from Fox as they ignored any written correspondence and I was only advised verbally.
Just to put some context on this, we now had 1. huge development cost for third new game 2. nothing approved from old items, and 3. a cancelled project.
I called a meeting with Fox, and we agreed, verbally, that we would get approval on 2nd edition as a compensation for this cancelled project. While this approval came through, it didn’t cover the losses. However we had no choice at all.
You mentioned WFG, this topic is really interesting as this company was created by all of directors of prodos, initially as a window for prodos to go back on Kikcstarter (Cerberum Games).
Usually I never mention Mark Rapson in my comments as we have had several disagreements over the years including several claims made by Mark which are untrue, however, he was playing an important role in prodos at the time which is the reason I mention him above. My intent here is not to blame Mark, but to point out that Prodos is not a one man company and while I as owner take ultimate responsibility now, Mark was also a director during the AVP KS.
In relation to Archon, in 2016 it delivered VoW on time and the same applies to our reprint of LOAD. Despite what Mr. Rapson and others claim, in an attempt to destroy this company through posts on KS, this company continues to grow and will continue putting out high quality games and miniatures. Back on to approval :
1. We have sent the terrain for approval 5 times now but it keeps coming back. We will have a final shot at this, following which, we will have to exchange this for other items. I’m hopeful that we have fixed the problems with the terrain however I’ve said this before about other items which haven’t been approved by FOX. 2. On the other items, I know that a number of these are in production however I’ll need to get an update from my team on Tuesday, today being a Sunday and New Years eve.
Even if 100% of what Jarek wrote is true (unlikely given his previously documented posting veracity), it doesn't explain or excuse his actions towards customers such as ignoring messages, blocking them on facebook, and insulting them in various posts over the years.
warboss wrote: Even if 100% of what Jarek wrote is true (unlikely given his previously documented posting veracity), it doesn't explain or excuse his actions towards customers such as ignoring messages, blocking them on facebook, and insulting them in various posts over the years.
probus11p said 1 hour, 58 minutes ago: Afternoon all, the team is telling me that “message” Kickstarter button is not active anymore on AvP KS page. The update will be out to your KS emails on Monday. Thanks.
From an earlier comment regarding clear Preds, it doesn't sound hopeful if you pledged for any non core game clear Preds...
probus11p said 1 day, 17 hours ago: Sorry I have been away few days due to sickness.
Thanks, the team is working on an update.
There is a question regarding clear predators. See attached picture of the clear predators stock. They are being shipped, however, according to pledge manager, there were only 350 backers with clear predators (core game ones).
We had them approved (tools and model) from HIPS back in 2015.
However, the company that gave us an initial quote back in 2013 for HIPS models, change it dramatically. IIRC, it was from 1 USD a sprue (board game needed around 10 sprues for all models) to 3 USD a sprue. On top of that tooling was increased for another 40k USD. We ended up with just 1 tool for predators. Financially it was no go for remaining items, so we ended up making it all from resin, in-house.
Prodos has been changing over the last 12 months resulting in part to the reduced communications as the company has changed its strategic direction with new management and shareholders. Some of you will be aware of the changes and other difficulties the company had in 2017, which I’ll go into later. We can only apologize for this.Well, where are we? First things first.
AVP backer parcels are still being sent out.
According to the data on our pledge manager we have: 459 backers have already received their full pledge. 1391 backers are waiting for their last shipment: these are mainly elements like alternative heads or multipose marines. 337 are still waiting for 2nd or 3rd shipping, and we have a group of more than 100 backers who have not yet completed the pledge manager or we’re missing their full shipping data.
We are holding parcels until all elements for that parcel are available to be shipped as one shipment.
Pobierz obrazki
Onto approval
Bad News
Resin terrain is the only element, that after six attempts, that we have not managed to get approval on. This means that 120 backers will receive an email and code for the value of the pledge for the resin terrain. This can be used for anything in our online store. We are disappointed with not getting the approval for this but we’re looking to complete this KS as soon as possible.
Good News
Multipose marines are in production as well as other elements like alternative heads.
Mixed News
While some clear Predators have been produced and posted, we’re still having issues with these between the long curing process, damaged shipments and EU restrictions on the type of resin we can use. We’re currently looking at outsourcing this but we are afraid we don’t have a timeframe for you. We hope to issue an update in the near future on these.
In 2017, many changes took place in Prodos, starting with new management, and a new CEO. There has also been a slight change of strategic direction for Prodos who are now aimed at practical special effects for the film industry, mainly utilizing silicone products. This will not affect the AVP KS and management understand the need to complete this KS as soon as possible. A separate company is now working exclusively on boardgames.
So, what does this mean for you?
Following a rocky 2017, the financial liquidity of Prodos has improved and the funds are there for the completion of AvP. Thanks to the contacts and network of the new owners, we have also managed to speed up the approval process with FOX.
Extension of Kickstarter exclusive We value our backers and understand that many of you are rightly angry and frustrated at us as a company. No amount of apologies will fix this. What we do want to try do is increase the value of your pledges for supporting us through the last 3 years. We have noted the high prices that some models have been sold for on various bidding sites.
The items listed below are now not going to be released to retail. This means that the items below will be recategorised as KS Exclusives thus increasing the value of your pledge. We hope that this will compensate you for the delays and as thanks for backing us.
- Lin Kurosava- Clear predators (main box) - Dutch - AlienEggs - Female Predator - Alternative heads - Sergeant - all mission objectives - Predator ship tiles - custom dice
We would like to emphasize that Prodos will continue to publish products for AvP and WZR as long as the license owners allow.
Pledge manager needs your help
As a reminder, we recently received a large number of returns. Please check your addresses in the pledge manager.
big gaps are from some heading in the email being done in images that dakka isn't letting me copy across
Automatically Appended Next Post: and from the beasts of war thread
probus11p said 13 minutes ago:
1st batch of emails (for resin terrain backers store credit) will roll out tomorrow. It’s manual operation as we have to go through every pledge, however, I think 16 working hours should be more than enough to fix that.
warboss wrote: Such rookies... Palladium's Kevin Siembieda is keeping more than double that number waiting for about the same length of time with no end in sight! :(
Hah, I think you jinxed it. End is now, er, in sight.
Stormonu wrote: Aliens day is April 26 (4/26), perhaps the Aliens boardgame will be released around then?
Gale Force Nine are not the fastest of companies. Based on how long there releases usually take and how little we have seen so far I wouldn’t expect preorders to ship until the end of the year at the earliest.
So after a few messenger chats with Prodos Games, rather than me pick the items up from SALUTE, they've offerred to send them out to me instead. I'm outstanding £200 of items, unfortunately, £45 of those will never be produced. So they put a £45 credit in my store account, and I've bought an M577 for £15.
Paid £5 P&P, and all my items will be sent with the M577. Hopefully, this saga should come to a close for me soon. Yes I've had to pay £5 P&P and spend another £15 with Prodos, but, my SALUTE ticket would have been £10 and another £50 on train fare to get to the venue. So it was cheaper to pay the £££ than go and pick it up.
Was all done very politely, professionally, quickly Prodos now just need to deliver the stuff. I'll keep you posted!
Automatically Appended Next Post: So after a few messenger chats with Prodos Games, rather than me pick the items up from SALUTE, they've offerred to send them out to me instead. I'm outstanding £200 of items, unfortunately, £45 of those will never be produced. So they put a £45 credit in my store account, and I've bought an M577 for £15.
Paid £5 P&P, and all my items will be sent with the M577. Hopefully, this saga should come to a close for me soon. Yes I've had to pay £5 P&P and spend another £15 with Prodos, but, my SALUTE ticket would have been £10 and another £50 on train fare to get to the venue. So it was cheaper to pay the £££ than go and pick it up.
Was all done very politely, professionally, quickly Prodos now just need to deliver the stuff. I'll keep you posted!
There was an update about it a few months ago. Other than the 3 Predators in the core box, any other 'cloaked' Pred model will not be produced. Includes, Female, Beserker, Young Blood Preds. Terrain isn't going to be produced.
Then there's a list of stuff that has been produced, but won't be released to anyone other than the KS backers who paid for it, e.g., Dutch & Linn Marines, Pred Ship tiles, Alien Eggs.....
So guys this may seem a stupid one but which version are the multi part marine aimed at, 1st ed or the second one.
Only ask because aren’t the two editions out of scale with each other.
Well despite not wanting to give prodos much money in the past some of these minis look very cool so am thinking of grabbing a couple boxes of the new stuff to expand on the 1st edition game I have.
The new officer looks very cool. Kind of like the new queen mini too, figure you will either love that one or hate it. I like the cartoon look it has.
Ps now can i keep forcing myself to turn away from the dropship, damn I’ve always wanted a model of that bad boy .
So, this terrible affair has finally come to a close for me. I've recieved everything from PRODOS. After quite a friendly FB Chat with them, I've swapped out my items that are not going to be produced for items in stock. I traded models for Pred Tiles, AVP 2nd Ed upgrade, and the M577. I've recieved all my outstanding items, multi-part marines, Sentry Guns, Dutch & Lin, Youngbloods, Female Pred, Coaked Pred's. Also threw in some freebies.
All in all, I get the impression that if you contact them, they will get you your outstanding stuff providing you tell them what you want to swap out. If you don't contact them, they'll leave you waiting.
Well received my order today and am pretty happy with the new multi part marines. The detail on the officer is unreal, can’t wait to get some paint on that bad boy.
Does anyone know whether the newly released USCM Multipart marines are in the same scale as the 1.0 AVP THB marine minis or in the scale of the 2.0 marine minis?
I recently bought some multipart marines from a third party. Still waiting on my pledge and didn't want to give Prodos any more money but couldn't wait as I'm working on another diorama, so I bought from MiniatureMarket. The figures themselves are well sculpted and detailed as always. They are in scale with the First Edition Marines. Personally, I was only somewhat satisfied with the poses. These aren't movie accurate colonial marines. Only two of five of the legs have the groin protector. The smart gunner has shin guards ( so you can't kit bash Vasquez) A lot of the arms have long sleeves and there are no forward firing pulse rifles with short sleeves ( so you can't kit bash Hudson or Hicks). The flamethrower arms are short sleeve but don't have shoulder pads ( No Deitrich). The figures are salvageable but be prepared to do some heavy customization if you're trying to make characters from the movie or just want the real Colonial Marine vibe.
In regards to my pledge, I have been in contact with an employee who assured me they were about to send it to me....in April
After following up, I was assured it was just about to be shipped out...in May
Another email said, "don't worry, we were just held up with a lot of orders, we'll get it out in June"
Finally I emailed them and asked what orders could possibly be prioritized before mine. I had been waiting for FIVE years. When were they going to send the order?
I received a tracking number yesterday but no mention of what parcel service I can track it on.
Received the rest of my order last week and Prodos managed to disappoint me one last time. I had been anticipating 2x5 original marines and 1x multipart marines (as per my order), but instead received 2x multipart marines and only one of the original marine sets which I already mentioned have more of that "Aliens Movie Vibe" while the multipart marines do not. To add insult to injury, Prodos never made the extra heads and bits. So what do they send me? The same arms(from multipart marine sets) with long sleeves that I hate so much from my last post. It's almost like it was one last F*** You. The extra bits didn't have the short sleeve flamethrower arms or short sleeve pulse rifle arms either (but did come with multipart marine heads). I'm glad I'm finally done with that company. If I ever have to buy any original marines or decide to get the APC, I'm going to make sure to buy it from a third party on Ebay or an online store. I'll post some side by side pictures of original marines and multipart marines as soon as I can. As I said before, the figures do look good.
Here are some side by side comparisons of Version 1 Marines and Multipart Marines. About the same size but they are a bit chunkier. The groin protector with green stuff isn't a finished work. Still brainstorming a way to fix it. The flamethrower guy is missing his shoulder pads, so I'm going to cut them off all the long sleeve arms I know I'm not going to use( and also haven't pictured here.) Good looking figures that just need some converting, assembly and paint.
I was wondering if people wash prodos resin in warm water (as might be done with forgeworld resin)? My first batch seems to take paint fine whereas superglue seems to take a bit longer to dry, I wondered if this was due to a release agent.
Also, has anyone found a source for in scale pulse rifles or helmets? There are plenty of pulse rifles on shapeways but they are typically listed as 28mm and no mention is made of if they are non-heroic scale or not.
Clearance sale – This is also a last month of AvP product line, after April 2019 AvP will be unavailable to buy. All add-ons are 40% off!
“AvP The Hunt Begins as a retail product is coming to an end on the 30th of April 2019. We will cease sales of all AvP product by the end of the April. Kickstarter fulfilment will work as usual, and shipments will be commenced until all backers receive their packages. Please make sure your pledge manager is closed. Closing Pledge manager means providing us with you up-to-date postage address.”
AvP The Hunt Begins as a retail product is coming to an end on the 30th of April 2019. We will cease sales of all AvP product by the end of the April. Kickstarter fulfilment will work as usual, and shipments will be commenced until all backers receive their packages. Please make sure your pledge manager is closed. Closing Pledge manager means providing us with you up-to-date postage address.
Prodos losing the licence isn't something to lay entirely on Disney's doorstep.
Commercial licences for this sort of thing include a "minimum payable per year " to the rights holder to keep the licence going, in addition to the initial licence fee.
If they couldn't pay that year's fee, then the contract usually gets rendered void.
Fox likes their monies paid on time, and the licence fee for the ALIEN IP is not a cheap one (an acquaintance wrote a book on the collectible ALIEN(s) figure toys (3 3/4 and 12" lines) and Fox dithered for 3 years about it.
Apologies for the slight post necromancy, but this is important.
Prodos sent an email out this morning with an announcement of a last chance for backers of the AvP kickstarter who still don't have some or all of their pledge, to act to receive their items.
I appreciate the blame for the mess should be laid entirely at Prodos' door, but this is YOUR LAST CHANCE - CONTACT THEM NOW !!!
Kind of a necro post but I just had the postman delivering me the last bits I was missing, multi-part USMC, and an AVP rulebook.
I can finally call it done and over.
warboss wrote: Was shipping delayed due to the pandemic or did they just recently send it out?
Yes.
It's a bit of a convoluted story, the last package was sent back because the local post office fethed up a bit, and PRODOS had to re-send it, which was delayed with COVID. Given the delays, I had assumed this one was gone, and since it was pretty small, I had made my peace with it.
It arrived this morning though, so credits should be given where credits are due. The AVP rulebook is actually hardcover, with a nice varnish.
All in all, I'm happy with what I got, slight delays notwithstanding.
When Palladium AND HG waded in on that one, I knew, deep down, that it was only going to end in tears.
Palladium have the excremental touch (it's like the Midas touch, only whatever they touch doesn't turn to GOLD) and it was never going to turn out the way all of the wishlisting fanbois dreamed it would.
warboss wrote: I'm glad you finally got your stuff though. Maybe there is hope for Robotech wave 2 then?
Ahahah ! The thing is, while you won't hear me defend PRODOS, they're not in the same league as Palladium by miles.
Not only did they release what they were expected to release, it's also pretty gorgeous when you have it in your hands, so call me a happy camper there. I understand not everyone was this fortunate...
Pacific wrote: The one I missed, and really wished I could have got hold of, was the female Predator.
Do we know if that one ever actually got made?
They made two for the game. One walking for the kickstarter (sometimes on Ebay for >50$) and the leaping one in UniCast (often seen on Ebay). In addition, there was one carrying beer made for the Essen Spiel 2017.
)
-ing up of everything they have touched since that 
Drop in the ocean compared to how much they've robbed from their 
