Figure I can't be the only one with general or faction specific questions with everything new in 8th so wanted a thread to address that. Please post yours as well as we learn this new edition.
General:
1) Is jink indeed gone?
2) For matched play missions, where does it say who/what can score? Or is everything "scoring"?
3) Do flyers just start on the board now?
4) For warlord traits, are the three listed still used for matched play?
6) There's no "instant death" anymore is there?
Chaos Space Marines:
1) due to the restricted DG list making many of my models not usable (not the place to disucss this), can I just make up a renegade faction to satisfy the <LEGION> keyword requirement?
All this info at the moment leads me to believe that a unit can fire overwatch each and every time it is charged, up to the point at which it is engaged in combat.
However the Tau leak says that if a unit fires overwatch in support of another unit it can not fire overwatch again that turn. So is it supporting fire overwatch or overwatch in general?.
1. How exactly does power work? Is there a way we can describe it easily like a 2 hour game is 100 power or something like that?
2. Just to clarify, allies I can have a guardsmen commissar leading my marines and some grey knights for the kicks if I wanted?
Those are 2 I can think of right now..
1) you pick up power level, army constructed to that level. Don't think standard level has been decided but since 1 power=about 20 points 75-100 powers looks about right.
2) since both have imperium keyword yes.
2) For matched play missions, where does it say who/what can score? Or is everything "scoring"?
1) due to the restricted DG list making many of my models not usable (not the place to disucss this), can I just make up a renegade faction to satisfy the <LEGION> keyword requirement?
Thanks!
2) Scoring is based on number of models near an objective. Nothing seems to restrict which models count so it looks like Scoring units are no more.
1) Yes, make up your own <LEGION> name and take any models you want in the same detachment as your Death Guard because they will share Heretic Astartes and Chaos as Keywords.
1) Is jink indeed gone? Jink does still exist for Dark Angels on page 107 of the Imperial I book. It says if you advance you get a 5+ invulnerable save.
2) For matched play missions, where does it say who/what can score? Or is everything "scoring"? As per Tactical Objectives in the main book. The only requirement to control an objectives is to have more models within 3" of the objective then your opponent. So, a Rhino vs 2 Dire Avengers within 3" of a marker means the Eldar player controls the objective.
3) Do flyers just start on the board now? Yes, unless it specifically has a rule that says it may be placed off the board.
4) For warlord traits, are the three listed still used for matched play? Yes
6) There's no "instant death" anymore is there? Correct
Chaos Space Marines:
1) due to the restricted DG list making many of my models not usable (not the place to disucss this), can I just make up a renegade faction to satisfy the <LEGION> keyword requirement?
Yes, but you would use the Heritic Astartes librarian powers.
IIRC, to overwatch you have to target a unit that is charging you that your weapons can reach at the taime of the charge. Moreover, you can't target a character if he isn't the nearest target. So if I start a charge with a character that is slightly behind my main troops, do I prevent my oponent from overwatching?
I do not get the general idea of this thread. The books are leaked and all over the internet. I get it if you do not want to use leaks. However what is the point of asking somebody else to look for you ?
oldzoggy wrote: I do not get the general idea of this thread. The books are leaked and all over the internet. I get it if you do not want to use leaks. However what is the point of asking somebody else to look for you ?
It's not a matter of looking for someone else but there isn't a thread to clarify what you are reading. It's a whole new game so I'm sure many others have confusion on the new rules.
1. does the rule of one still exists, IE dice rolls of 1 always fail, if not, scarab occult terminators can not be wounded by bolters or anything that fires a single shot with no rend.
2. If you have a mechanic that allows you to reroll misses, and you use super chaged plasma, get a 1, are you allowed to reroll it and not deal with gets hot like twin linked used to be.
oldzoggy wrote: I do not get the general idea of this thread. The books are leaked and all over the internet. I get it if you do not want to use leaks. However what is the point of asking somebody else to look for you ?
It's not a matter of looking for someone else but there isn't a thread to clarify what you are reading. It's a whole new game so I'm sure many others have confusion on the new rules.
tneva82 wrote: No because for that we need codex which if we are lucky we get within year(well depending on faction. Thought for a while this was the AM thread).
Ok, so unless I'm missing something obvious, the only benefit for sticking to a subfaction (instead of something wide like the "imperium" or "Aeldari" factions), is the buffs that characters can give to some units and which transports they can board?
I'm just trying to figure out how to fit my miniatures collection into coherent armies...
tneva82 wrote: No because for that we need codex which if we are lucky we get within year(well depending on faction. Thought for a while this was the AM thread).
Ok, so unless I'm missing something obvious, the only benefit for sticking to a subfaction (instead of something wide like the "imperium" or "Aeldari" factions), is the buffs that characters can give to some units and which transports they can board?
I'm just trying to figure out how to fit my miniatures collection into coherent armies...
For now it seems so. Like AoS, as they make new codexes which will reward staying with sub factions (as opposed to the larger faction keywords) you'll see some granulation I imagine.
For your collection just make sure they all match a single faction keyword and then fit them into a detachment or two and you'll be all set.
Backspacehacker wrote: 1. does the rule of one still exists, IE dice rolls of 1 always fail, if not, scarab occult terminators can not be wounded by bolters or anything that fires a single shot with no rend.
2. If you have a mechanic that allows you to reroll misses, and you use super chaged plasma, get a 1, are you allowed to reroll it and not deal with gets hot like twin linked used to be.
1) Yes, likewise 6 seems to always succeed...
2) Yes, inverse would be true as well, if you rolled a 2 and missed, rerolled and rolled a 1, you get the only instance of Instant Death I see in the game.
1) Summoning in matched play: Roll up to 3d6 to determine the power of the unit you're able to summon, the select a unit using your reinforcement points that fits under that power level? Eg, you roll 11 and decide to summon 20 Daemonnettes (10 power), so you summon the unit and subtract 180 points from your reinforcement pool.
Is that about right?
2) The description of allocating wounds seems really slow for multiwound weapons (which are now common). For each wound you nominate someone to take it, then roll their save, then roll damage, and then roll your FNP against each point of damage. You then repeat this for each additional wound scored? Is that right? And there's no real way of speeding this up because the order in which the damage is rolled is important. eg against a 3 wound unit, rolling 6-2-1-1 kills 2 models, whereas 2-6-1-1 kills only 1 model. Is this correct?
Can all models shoot 360 degrees now? I can move my heldrake 30 inches, over an enemy and shoot his cannon at what I just flew over? From my reading of the rules this is true. There are not facings or arcs anymore, except for dogfights.
Asura Varuna wrote: 1) Summoning in matched play: Roll up to 3d6 to determine the power of the unit you're able to summon, the select a unit using your reinforcement points that fits under that power level? Eg, you roll 11 and decide to summon 20 Daemonnettes (10 power), so you summon the unit and subtract 180 points from your reinforcement pool.
Is that about right?
2) The description of allocating wounds seems really slow for multiwound weapons (which are now common). For each wound you nominate someone to take it, then roll their save, then roll damage, and then roll your FNP against each point of damage. You then repeat this for each additional wound scored? Is that right? And there's no real way of speeding this up because the order in which the damage is rolled is important. eg against a 3 wound unit, rolling 6-2-1-1 kills 2 models, whereas 2-6-1-1 kills only 1 model. Is this correct?
For your #2: Sometimes you can speed this up, depending on what you're shooting at. Remember that it works like this - X shots, roll To Hit -> Hits, roll To Wound -> Wounds, Defender allocates (damaged models first) -> roll To Save -> unsaved wounds, roll Damage -> apply damage reduction, FNP-like things (usually there won't be any) -> apply damage, remove model if destroyed, allocate next wound. So, multi-damage weapons against a unit of W1 models, your damage rolls don't matter if they don't have any kind of damage reduction mechanic - if they fail their save, they take at least 1 damage and die. The order does matter against units of multi-wound models, however, because they might survive 1 damage but die to 2 damage, say. This is pretty much how D weapons work now, in fact (except that there's no FNP right now).
That'll be kinda pokey the first time you do it, and it may bog down if you have a unit of multi-wound guys taking lots of fire from variable-damage weapons, like say a Nob Squad taking fire from some Broadsides with HYMPs. However, folks should get that down to an art pretty quick. Most times, there won't be any FNP mechanic (and read the ones that exist closely. Some negate wounds, others negate damage; that matters! I wish they'd been consistent about that, frankly), and most guys still have W1, and most weapons still do 1 damage, so often you can simplify all that out. Don't care how much damage that battle cannon wound did, it's on a Guardsman, he dies. That bolter does 1 damage, so, no damage rolls needed, and so on.
Bodacious2182 wrote: Can all models shoot 360 degrees now? I can move my heldrake 30 inches, over an enemy and shoot his cannon at what I just flew over? From my reading of the rules this is true. There are not facings or arcs anymore, except for dogfights.
You are very correct, good ser. In addition you do not need to draw LoS or distance from the guns you're shooting, just the vehicle's hull.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I just need confirmation that this is correct or not.
Let's begin with the assumption that I want to make a Battleforged Dark Angels List.
From what I can gather nothing is stopping me from using non-traditional DA units such as Sternguard as they share a Faction with the rest of the Army (be it Imperium or Adeptus Astartes). They will just have to be of a different chapter as Dark Angels can't have Sternguard.
However, this means that they will not be able to enter a Dark Angels Chapter Rhino (that, let's say I purchase as a dedicated Transport for a Dark Angels Tactical Squad) as the Transport rules on the Rhino say that "This model can transport 10 <Chapter> Infantry models." and in this case <Chapter> refers to the Dark Angels?
With this in mind we can then assume that at the same time a Dark Angels Company Veteran and Dreadnought (for example) will never be able to board a Stormraven for the exact same reason
Looking at the Aegis Defense Line stats, it seems that the Quad Gun has a BS of 5+, does anyone know if this changes depending on the model operating the weapon? It doesn't say anything like that, so I'm assuming not, but BS of 5+ is... meh, I'm hoping there's a rule somewhere I haven't seen to say otherwise.
sorry I posted this in another thread but this seems the correct place????
deep strike:
as I have not played in a long time with current rules.
In 8th edition when you deep strike you must stay 9" from enemy models......so if you have a horde army you could potentially block the enemy from coming inside your deployment zone?
Deployment zones:
2nd .....some versions ago there use to be 1st turn immunity to attack if you remained in your deployment zone. Is that still a thing or has it been gone for a while now and as well as 8th?
I ask as there is a lot of chatter about 1st turn moves that get in the alpha strike assault.
Has anyone seen any info for wargear options in 8th? I've seen points values for things like storm shields & scout cloaks, but nothing for things like:
-jump packs
-auspex
-pistols that all marines have for cc
Can you shoot out of transports, I've seen the bit about shooting pistols when the transport is assaulted, but that's it. There aren't any open topped vehicles anymore, so one rule would have to apply to them all, from trucks to land raiders.
Grimgold wrote: Can you shoot out of transports, I've seen the bit about shooting pistols when the transport is assaulted, but that's it. There aren't any open topped vehicles anymore, so one rule would have to apply to them all, from trucks to land raiders.
From what I've seen, yes and no. No, if you're thinking of Rhinos. Yes, if it's a Land Speeder Storm. Other than that, I'm not sure.
Grimgold wrote: Can you shoot out of transports, I've seen the bit about shooting pistols when the transport is assaulted, but that's it. There aren't any open topped vehicles anymore, so one rule would have to apply to them all, from trucks to land raiders.
Yes, you can shoot out of open topped transports. If the thing moved, and you are firing a heavy weapon, for the most part, you will take a -1 to hit.
This is covered in the rules for the specific transports;
Examples:
Tau devilfish has no rules about shooting from it.
DE Raider has rule called: "open topped" you can shoot out of it (a bit more than that, but you get the idea).
SM Land Speeder storm has rule called "Open topped" - you can shoot out of it too - looks very similar to the rule listed on the DE raider.
SM Rhino however, has no rule like this.
IG Chimera - has no mention of hatches...BUT, has a "lasgun array" which can be fired if there is a unit embarked in it.
My main question is: what army am I going to come back to 40k with? Reading over all the leaks, they all seem quite fun now. I just can't decide! (More to answer for myself)
Onto a more relevant question, and also part of a worry:
Are infantry going to dominate now? They've become a hell of a lot cheaper for almost every army. Me and my brother were doing some numbers and in an average 1,500pt game, you can have 450 conscripts rushing across the table, dishing out unruly numbers of shots, buffed by orders to sometimes quadroople that number, and sit a couple of commissars in the middle of it all making them all but fearless. Snipers take them out? Have fun anyway getting rid of 450 models that can kill anything on 6's. And with the amount of shots they dish out, they can in fact kill the big things. If not, 450 bodies sitting on objectives cannot be moved.
Most people will probably not do this (as amazingly awesome it would be to have a Russian themed conscript army), as that's an insane model count and shot count, causing that game to be excruciating to play. Could you imagine moving that many figures and rolling that many dice? However, I just wanted to bring to attention that, vehicles and other more elite choices now mostly being upped in price, and infantry being made cheaper and can now technically hurt anything, could cause infantry to dominate games, with people taking little to nothing else in some cases.
If a transport is destroyed we disembark, roll for ones and remove vehicle, and THEN roll for explodes hitting the unit that just disembarked?
From my understanding, when it gets destroyed, you roll the d6 and dish mortal wounds where applicable (including on the unit inside) and then you roll for 1's on the unit inside. Or perhaps it's either or. Good question
Youn wrote: The purpose is to push infantry to the forefront by making vehicles more expensive. We won't see until we play if it succeeds in doing that.
Yeah I think it's a cool idea in concept, and I'm totally going to be throwing in a mix a Units. Finally a heap of stuff seems worth taking the more I look at everything, you just can't take as much which is totally fair. I'm just worried that infantry have become a bit too cheap and competitive games will become spammed infantry. But yeah, we'll have to wait and see. Hopefully I'm wrong
I'm going to assume that a similar thing will happen with this as AoS. When your army book comes out, it'll come with a list of additional spells that your spellcasters can take
Grimgold wrote: Can you shoot out of transports, I've seen the bit about shooting pistols when the transport is assaulted, but that's it. There aren't any open topped vehicles anymore, so one rule would have to apply to them all, from trucks to land raiders.
Yes, you can shoot out of open topped transports. If the thing moved, and you are firing a heavy weapon, for the most part, you will take a -1 to hit.
This is covered in the rules for the specific transports;
Examples:
Tau devilfish has no rules about shooting from it.
DE Raider has rule called: "open topped" you can shoot out of it (a bit more than that, but you get the idea).
SM Land Speeder storm has rule called "Open topped" - you can shoot out of it too - looks very similar to the rule listed on the DE raider.
SM Rhino however, has no rule like this.
IG Chimera - has no mention of hatches...BUT, has a "lasgun array" which can be fired if there is a unit embarked in it.
Chimera has just lost that. No longer can you shoot melta or Plasma out the back. Now you just got the Lasgun arrays. They are also 15 pts more Im afraid as well.
It should be noted that you cannot set up a unit in reserves unless it says it can be set up in reserves. So, as my above army is designed. I must start with those Stormravens on the table to start.
The teleporters on the dreadknights do allow them to teleport in during the fight.
Now that an individual tank in a squadron of Leeman Russes count as an individual unit after deployment, will calling an order on one go to the whole squadron or no? Seems like a lot of stuff is weakening the effectiveness of orders?
We arent really told much about moving through terrain, unless I'm missing something. So no longer slowed, no more dangerous terrain tests. I'm cool with that.
As long as bikes and vehicles end their move on the ground floor, can they move through the walls as well?
Now that an individual tank in a squadron of Leeman Russes count as an individual unit after deployment, will calling an order on one go to the whole squadron or no? Seems like a lot of stuff is weakening the effectiveness of orders?
It says once deployed on the table and the game begins, each vehicle counts as a separate unit, so orders will apply only to one vehicle. It's rough, but also means you can fit more tanks in without them all being able to be blown up by the same unit targeting them. So it's a win and a loss at the same time. Same as guard blobs being gone. Can't merge squads of 10 anymore into blobs of 30+. So Guard have a couple of nerfs but for the most part they've been buffed.
Now that an individual tank in a squadron of Leeman Russes count as an individual unit after deployment, will calling an order on one go to the whole squadron or no? Seems like a lot of stuff is weakening the effectiveness of orders?
It says once deployed on the table and the game begins, each vehicle counts as a separate unit, so orders will apply only to one vehicle. It's rough, but also means you can fit more tanks in without them all being able to be blown up by the same unit targeting them. So it's a win and a loss at the same time. Same as guard blobs being gone. Can't merge squads of 10 anymore into blobs of 30+. So Guard have a couple of nerfs but for the most part they've been buffed.
Nightlord1987 wrote: We arent really told much about moving through terrain, unless I'm missing something. So no longer slowed, no more dangerous terrain tests. I'm cool with that.
As long as bikes and vehicles end their move on the ground floor, can they move through the walls as well?
The battle terrain section gives rules for terrain.
Woods: INFANTRY get cover if base in terrain area. Models subtract 2" when charging through woods.
Ruins: VEHICLES, MONSTERS and BIKES can only go on ground floor unless they have FLY. INFANTRY get cover if at least 50% of model obscured.
Craters: Infantry get cover within craters. Charging subtracts 2" if you cross a crater.
Barricades: INFANTRY within 1" of barricade, and behind it from the point of view of the firing units get cover. If fighting across a barricade melee distance is 2" instead of 1".
Obstacles: VEHICLES and MONSTERS half movement over obstacles. TITANIC not slowed.
Imperial Statue: Models within 3" of status get cover if 25% obscured. IMPERIAL units in 3" get leadership +1.
Fuel pipes: Make save needing 6 on dice vs shooting. On 1, pipe ruptures and causing 1 mortal wound.
Battlescape: On a 1 moving through area receive 1 mortal wound from mines.
Hills: Can give cover if your behind them.
admironheart wrote: 2nd .....some versions ago there use to be 1st turn immunity to attack if you remained in your deployment zone. Is that still a thing or has it been gone for a while now and as well as 8th?
I ask as there is a lot of chatter about 1st turn moves that get in the alpha strike assault.
thanks
That was because there wasn't any ability to do it fast enough. Now there is so yeah T1 assaults will be quite common.
admironheart wrote: 2nd .....some versions ago there use to be 1st turn immunity to attack if you remained in your deployment zone. Is that still a thing or has it been gone for a while now and as well as 8th?
I ask as there is a lot of chatter about 1st turn moves that get in the alpha strike assault.
thanks
That was because there wasn't any ability to do it fast enough. Now there is so yeah T1 assaults will be quite common.
And you can even start inside a transport for additional protection and (ironically) movement.
Ratius wrote: Do unit aura buffs ala OOOs +1 to hit for nearby carnifexes also affect the host unit i.e. OOO himself?
Depends on specific rules wording. This one boosts all Carnifex units. That Carnifex doesn't seem to be keyword(not bolded) so I would say no in this case.
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Pedroig wrote: Yes, as long as the aura xreator shares the same keyword as the aura effect
Problem here there seems to be two specifiers. Keyword <Hive fleet> and then carnifex unit. Is that carnifex keyword or not? I thought keywords are bolded which this is not.
Now that an individual tank in a squadron of Leeman Russes count as an individual unit after deployment, will calling an order on one go to the whole squadron or no? Seems like a lot of stuff is weakening the effectiveness of orders?
It says once deployed on the table and the game begins, each vehicle counts as a separate unit, so orders will apply only to one vehicle. It's rough, but also means you can fit more tanks in without them all being able to be blown up by the same unit targeting them. So it's a win and a loss at the same time. Same as guard blobs being gone. Can't merge squads of 10 anymore into blobs of 30+. So Guard have a couple of nerfs but for the most part they've been buffed.
Buffed how?
Bullgryns are good now; Sentenals look tough enough to be worth it now; heavy weapon teams can be in a squad and now shoot at different targets to the squad; rough riders look good now with some epic charge damage; while being a bit disappointing damage wise, tanks are really tough now; the taurox prime looks amazing now; troops have been made cheaper and can now technically hurt anything in the game, so the humble lasgun has been given a massive buff; orders have been rebalanced and all look useful now, etc. there's a pretty big list of things that make Guard good now
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Ratius wrote: If a debuff makes you -1 to hit in shooting and you overwatch is it an automatic fail 6-1 =7?
I could be wrong, but didn't they say overwatch was a flat 6, no matter what? I'm pretty sure it isn't affected by modifiers. Don't quote me on that though
What was the deal with those Command Dice we saw leaked a while ago? They had Go To Ground, and I've seen others about GTG in the rule book.
Were these for SW:A or something I'm missing?
i'm not sure on jump units as you'll be out of range when you land, but on regular units why ever take a flamer over a combo-flamer now. 2 more points and the ability to fire both, flamer auto hits anyway, so may as well fire both in close.
also, does anyone know if the abilities of a Captain to affect 'friendly' units within 6'' would affect him as well?
In 8th edition when you deep strike you must stay 9" from enemy models......so if you have a horde army you could potentially block the enemy from coming inside your deployment zone?
2nd .....some versions ago there used to be 1st turn immunity to attack if you remained in your deployment zone. Is that still a thing or has it been gone for a while now and as well as 8th?
You must stay GREATER than 9" thus a charge distance of 8 will not get you 1" away. Thus only a 28% chance to successfully charge.
If you conga line your deployment zone, I suppose.
No first turn immunity. GW has unsuccessfully tried to deal with Alpha Strike for several editions. Night fighting rules, no charging from transports, or when first deployed, etc.
This edition does it by assigning high point values to methods used to alpha strike. There is also a subtle thing they have done. You deploy by alternating units and whoever finishes first gets to choose to go first or not.
So if you MSU and hold lots of units in reserve (only up to half) to drop in close to the enemy, you will likely be going second.
If a transport is destroyed we disembark, roll for ones and remove vehicle, and THEN roll for explodes hitting the unit that just disembarked?
No, a rule says that things that happen at the same time are performed at the discretion of the active player. Kill your dudes if you like, but you can blow up the vehicle to hurt units around you, then place the occupants and roll for ones.
The death of the vehicle is what hurts people so I see no reason why the occupants have to take it twice.
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Youn wrote: The purpose is to push infantry to the forefront by making vehicles more expensive. We won't see until we play if it succeeds in doing that.
My army I am trying tomorrow evening at my FLGS is:
Spoiler:
Stormraven Gunship I [309]
Castellan Crowe [125]
Purifier Squad I (5 man) [177]
Purifier Squad II (5 man) [177}
Stormraven Gunship II [309]
Purifier Squad III (5 man) [177}
Inquisitor Livris (Hereticus) [79]
Nemesis Dreadknight I [245]
Nemesis Dreadknight II [245]
-- 1843 --
So, we will see how using a vehicle heavy army works against a mob force.
I played last night with eldar with Wave Serpent and Falcon, vs several combat squaded marines with melta and plasma plus a jump pack unit.
The transports acted like tanks. ie they tanked for my dudes very nicely and got them where they needed to be.
I think vehicles will find their place. They have lots of weapons and wounds and saves. You have to deal with them. That takes pressure off your troops.
If you are all troops, my seprents will sit in terrain with a 2+ save and pour shots into you.
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Youn wrote: It should be noted that you cannot set up a unit in reserves unless it says it can be set up in reserves. So, as my above army is designed. I must start with those Stormravens on the table to start.
The teleporters on the dreadknights do allow them to teleport in during the fight.
Seriously? There is no walking onto the board from reserve now?
So I have a unit inside a chimera. They move and then fire the tanks's lasguns. The chimera then charges and dies from overwatch.
Now the unit inside survives and is placed legally 3" away.
CAN I NOW CHARGE with the surviving unit?
thanks
I thought no, reread and can't find any wording that stops you, but I think it will be FAQ'd because it would allow the unit to benefit from the vehicle's movement which the disembark rule is specifically designed to not allow.
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I could be wrong, but didn't they say overwatch was a flat 6, no matter what? I'm pretty sure it isn't affected by modifiers.
Overwatch is a normal shooting attack except during the charge phase where all rules apply except a 6 is always required to hit irrespective of BS or modifiers.
Has anyone figured out what the various "make three hit rolls for each attack with this weapon, instead of one" actually do? Is it:
1. Make three attacks for each one you would normally make
2. Roll the die three times and add them together to see if you hit
3. Roll three times and if any of them succeed you hit
It's worded so awkwardly I'm not sure. The first feels right from the wording, but also weirdly powerful for what seem to be default melee attacks on giant units.
admironheart wrote: what about flamers or other weapons that hit automatically ...on overwatch?
Do those weapons auto hit on overwatch???
Yep, basically just rolling a d6 for overwatch hits, instead of the d3 you did last edition. A rather brutal buff for a weapon people already were fond of.
SilverAlien wrote: Has anyone figured out what the various "make three hit rolls for each attack with this weapon, instead of one" actually do? Is it:
1. Make three attacks for each one you would normally make
2. Roll the die three times and add them together to see if you hit
3. Roll three times and if any of them succeed you hit
It's worded so awkwardly I'm not sure. The first feels right from the wording, but also weirdly powerful for what seem to be default melee attacks on giant units.
admironheart wrote: what about flamers or other weapons that hit automatically ...on overwatch?
Do those weapons auto hit on overwatch???
Yep, basically just rolling a d6 for overwatch hits, instead of the d3 you did last edition. A rather brutal buff for a weapon people already were fond of.
Hm, I would interpret it as option 1, but I could see some people making a case for it being option 3 too. What unit is that?? lol. That's intense.
edit*
Can anyone please tell me if when utilizing detachments the 2 HQ slots used for the 'Battalion' Detachment can be used again (with 3 Heavy Support units) to fill the 'Spearhead' Detachment?
A detachment needs to include units from the same faction.
What's the definition of a faction?
Is it a codex like Harlequins or is it a keyword like aeldari?
If it's the latter can I freely mix all eldar factions and keep all the special rules like battle focus and power from pain?
SilverAlien wrote: Has anyone figured out what the various "make three hit rolls for each attack with this weapon, instead of one" actually do? Is it:
1. Make three attacks for each one you would normally make
2. Roll the die three times and add them together to see if you hit
3. Roll three times and if any of them succeed you hit
It's worded so awkwardly I'm not sure. The first feels right from the wording, but also weirdly powerful for what seem to be default melee attacks on giant units.
admironheart wrote: what about flamers or other weapons that hit automatically ...on overwatch?
Do those weapons auto hit on overwatch???
Yep, basically just rolling a d6 for overwatch hits, instead of the d3 you did last edition. A rather brutal buff for a weapon people already were fond of.
Hm, I would interpret it as option 1, but I could see some people making a case for it being option 3 too. What unit is that?? lol. That's intense.
edit*
Can anyone please tell me if when utilizing detachments the 2 HQ slots used for the 'Battalion' Detachment can be used again (with 3 Heavy Support units) to fill the 'Spearhead' Detachment?
I'd go with 1, it is for either "special rules" for ranged weapons, or a way to illustrate a melee weapon gets multiple uses out of a single Atk use.
A unit uses up A detachment slot. That means singular, exclusive. In otherwords, no, if you want a battalion and a spearhead that's 3 HQ minimum. Else you could call your Battalion, a Batlaion, Spearhead, Vanguard, etc. and just stack up command points, which is rather silly don't you think?
Similiar to "6s always succeed?" question, can saves be reduced to nothing(aka 7+ 8+..) or will a save roll (if allowed) always succeed on a 6(and fail on 1)?
Kremling wrote: Similiar to "6s always succeed?" question, can saves be reduced to nothing(aka 7+ 8+..) or will a save roll (if allowed) always succeed on a 6(and fail on 1)?
6 does not always succeed. All rolls are either greater than (number) or equal to or greater than (number)
Armour saves are not 7+ or 8+, AP modifiers are subtracted from the die roll. So if one of my Boyz with its 6+ armour save is hit by a AP-3 weapon, I cannot make the save, not even if I have cover. I roll a 6 and subtract 3, means I have a result of 3, that is not equal to or greater than 6, so the Boy takes a wound.
Mayk01, only need one Faction keyword to match up... So yes, just note most aura powers effect more specific keywords.
It says world eaters khorne berserkers are troop choices. Do all my <legion> keywords have to be the same in my detachment? Or can I have world eaters berserkers and death guard plague marines both as troop choices in the same list? Or does world eaters berserkers mean zerkers taken by a full world eaters army?
I mean, if they can be troop choices 100% of the time, why are they elites? just for the keyword buffs? I'm so confused.
Depends, if you are playing a Chaos army, then yep, they are just elite choices. If you are playing a World Eater army, Berserkers are Troop choices while Plague Marines, Rubric Marines, etc. are elite choices.
There are buffs that only go into effect if the entire detachment has a certain keyword.
Basically if you want to play a single Legion, you can and you get their standard Marine as a troop. If you want to play just a mixed Chaos army you can and still get them as troops, RAW. Just like a Space Marine detachment can have Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, etc. along with Onagars, Imperial Knights, SoB, Assassins, Commissars all in it as well, course it would be called an Imperium detachment...
Quite silly if you ask me, but powergamers going to powergame
Friend sent me the answer to my question.
Faction indeed refers to "Faction keywords" meaning Aeldari can mix between DE/E/H without having to go Ynnari.
SilverAlien wrote: Has anyone figured out what the various "make three hit rolls for each attack with this weapon, instead of one" actually do? Is it:
1. Make three attacks for each one you would normally make
2. Roll the die three times and add them together to see if you hit
3. Roll three times and if any of them succeed you hit
It's worded so awkwardly I'm not sure. The first feels right from the wording, but also weirdly powerful for what seem to be default melee attacks on giant units.
admironheart wrote: what about flamers or other weapons that hit automatically ...on overwatch?
Do those weapons auto hit on overwatch???
Yep, basically just rolling a d6 for overwatch hits, instead of the d3 you did last edition. A rather brutal buff for a weapon people already were fond of.
Hm, I would interpret it as option 1, but I could see some people making a case for it being option 3 too. What unit is that?? lol. That's intense.
edit*
Can anyone please tell me if when utilizing detachments the 2 HQ slots used for the 'Battalion' Detachment can be used again (with 3 Heavy Support units) to fill the 'Spearhead' Detachment?
I'd go with 1, it is for either "special rules" for ranged weapons, or a way to illustrate a melee weapon gets multiple uses out of a single Atk use.
A unit uses up A detachment slot. That means singular, exclusive. In otherwords, no, if you want a battalion and a spearhead that's 3 HQ minimum. Else you could call your Battalion, a Batlaion, Spearhead, Vanguard, etc. and just stack up command points, which is rather silly don't you think?
Ah, thank you. Yeah, I'm glad it's not like that. I'm assuming most people will be running a Battalion size? Brigade seems pretty huge unless you're doing a massive game.
Yep, basically just rolling a d6 for overwatch hits, instead of the d3 you did last edition. A rather brutal buff for a weapon people already were fond of.
Yes but it appears the range limit still applies for flamers on overwatch. Cognis Flamers are even supposed to get to roll 2d6 and discard the lowest for number of overwatch hits, yet do nothing if the enemy starts charging through the entire range of the weapon from outside the range of the weapon.
Really the only thing in the new edition that has my knickers in a knot.
Yep, basically just rolling a d6 for overwatch hits, instead of the d3 you did last edition. A rather brutal buff for a weapon people already were fond of.
Yes but it appears the range limit still applies for flamers on overwatch. Cognis Flamers are even supposed to get to roll 2d6 and discard the lowest for number of overwatch hits, yet do nothing if the enemy starts charging through the entire range of the weapon from outside the range of the weapon.
Really the only thing in the new edition that has my knickers in a knot.
Whatt.. that's lame. It's not like they wouldn't be moving in closer as you're shooting. Charging from 8+ inches is difficult, but still. Might have to house rule that one away.
What does everyone think the new tournament standard points level is going to be in the new edition? In 7th it seems that 1850 is the most common point level, so about how many points will that be in 8th? I'm thinking it might be somewhere between 2000 and 2500, but what do more knowledgeable people think?
ZergSmasher wrote: What does everyone think the new tournament standard points level is going to be in the new edition? In 7th it seems that 1850 is the most common point level, so about how many points will that be in 8th? I'm thinking it might be somewhere between 2000 and 2500, but what do more knowledgeable people think?
I think we are going to see 2000 points be the start point for now. 2000 points seem to be around 1650-1750 pts of 7th edition lists. In some cases even less (free Gladius SM vehicals...im looking at you).
Tournaments have been struggling over the past couple of years to reduce the amount of time games were taking and many had moved to the 1650 point level. I think it will take a little time to see how things will level out. I think the point level will reflect 2-2.5 hour games that finish naturally.
So I have a unit inside a chimera. They move and then fire the tanks's lasguns. The chimera then charges and dies from overwatch.
Now the unit inside survives and is placed legally 3" away.
CAN I NOW CHARGE with the surviving unit?
thanks
Nothing that I have read stops this from happening.
Actually it doesn't work, it's an order of operations thing that isn't intuitive if you're used to 7th.
Charge and Fight are two distinct phases.
In the charge phase you may charge units more than 1" away from your models.
In the Fight phase you DO get a 3" pile in, but ONLY if one of the unit's models is within 1" of an enemy model (which can't be possible if you legally disembarked.)
condon wrote: In the Fight phase you DO get a 3" pile in, but ONLY if one of the unit's models is within 1" of an enemy model (which can't be possible if you legally disembarked.)
So you are saying that units can be too good at combat now? If a unit kills all enemy models within an inch of the unit's models, then it breaks combat? Can people choose not to swing in this edition?
I feel like I'm missing a few pages. Like the ones that explain what the Vehicle keyword means (I see Transports as a sidebar entry though).
Or "Terminator" (shared across both regular termi's and their cataphractii brethren).
I ask this because barring something I've missed in the book, terminators and dreads cannot assault after firing rapidfire or heavy weapons right? Which seems silly for an edition that's about getting on in there and doing cool stuff faster.
PoorGravitasHandling wrote: I feel like I'm missing a few pages. Like the ones that explain what the Vehicle keyword means (I see Transports as a sidebar entry though).
Or "Terminator" (shared across both regular termi's and their cataphractii brethren).
I ask this because barring something I've missed in the book, terminators and dreads cannot assault after firing rapidfire or heavy weapons right? Which seems silly for an edition that's about getting on in there and doing cool stuff faster.
Did you read the rules for weapons? They don't prevent charging anymore, At All. And those keywords are for other rules interactions, they don't confer anything.
So I have a unit inside a chimera. They move and then fire the tanks's lasguns. The chimera then charges and dies from overwatch.
Now the unit inside survives and is placed legally 3" away.
CAN I NOW CHARGE with the surviving unit?
thanks
Nothing that I have read stops this from happening.
Actually it doesn't work, it's an order of operations thing that isn't intuitive if you're used to 7th.
Charge and Fight are two distinct phases.
In the charge phase you may charge units more than 1" away from your models.
In the Fight phase you DO get a 3" pile in, but ONLY if one of the unit's models is within 1" of an enemy model (which can't be possible if you legally disembarked.)
What you said as a reason is basically irrelevant.
Transport Vehicle with Boyz Charge during the Charge Phase
Overwatch happens, Destroying the Vehicle, Disembarking the Boyz
Boyz that just been forcibly disembarked Charge
*REDACTED*
Kremling wrote: Similiar to "6s always succeed?" question, can saves be reduced to nothing(aka 7+ 8+..) or will a save roll (if allowed) always succeed on a 6(and fail on 1)?
Only Strength, Toughness, and Leadership can't be reduced to below 1. You can reduce everything else.
condon wrote: In the Fight phase you DO get a 3" pile in, but ONLY if one of the unit's models is within 1" of an enemy model (which can't be possible if you legally disembarked.)
So you are saying that units can be too good at combat now? If a unit kills all enemy models within an inch of the unit's models, then it breaks combat? Can people choose not to swing in this edition?
You choose which units attack in which order, but as in Sigmar, you and your opponent take turns. The only variations are
1) All charging units go first, then the active player selects one non charging unit and alternation begins.
2) The reactive player may spend 2CP to attack after ANY charging unit has attacked, ignoring the normal order.
So in your scenario, you might choose to have your dubiously connected unit attack earlier, and leave the one who is really 'stuck in' and won't be torn out of combat go later.
So I have a unit inside a chimera. They move and then fire the tanks's lasguns. The chimera then charges and dies from overwatch.
Now the unit inside survives and is placed legally 3" away.
CAN I NOW CHARGE with the surviving unit?
thanks
Nothing that I have read stops this from happening.
Actually it doesn't work, it's an order of operations thing that isn't intuitive if you're used to 7th.
Charge and Fight are two distinct phases.
In the charge phase you may charge units more than 1" away from your models.
In the Fight phase you DO get a 3" pile in, but ONLY if one of the unit's models is within 1" of an enemy model (which can't be possible if you legally disembarked.)
What you said as a reason is basically irrelevant.
Transport Vehicle with Boyz Charge during the Charge Phase
Overwatch happens, Destroying the Vehicle, Disembarking the Boyz
Boyz that just been forcibly disembarked Charge
Also, someone asked about Transports and the Double Whammy Explosion.
Technically, you would Disembark suffer the 1s, then suffer an Explosion. Since Disembarking says IMMEDIATELY, Explosion does not.
If that was not design intention, then another FAQ is needed.
Also, it would make some sense that someone inside a Vehicle that exploded would probably suffer more negative effects than someone who was outside of it.
You're right, I overlooked the word 'overwatch' in that scenario. I suppose it would be possible.
Also, someone asked about Transports and the Double Whammy Explosion.
Technically, you would Disembark suffer the 1s, then suffer an Explosion. Since Disembarking says IMMEDIATELY, Explosion does not.
If that was not design intention, then another FAQ is needed.
Also, it would make some sense that someone inside a Vehicle that exploded would probably suffer more negative effects than someone who was outside of it.
In the explosion rules on the datasheet(s) it specifically states that the explosion happens "before removing the model and before any embarked models disembark"
Also, someone asked about Transports and the Double Whammy Explosion.
Technically, you would Disembark suffer the 1s, then suffer an Explosion. Since Disembarking says IMMEDIATELY, Explosion does not.
If that was not design intention, then another FAQ is needed.
Also, it would make some sense that someone inside a Vehicle that exploded would probably suffer more negative effects than someone who was outside of it.
In the explosion rules on the datasheet(s) it specifically states that the explosion happens "before removing the model and before any embarked models disembark"
My mistake came in because I didn't read the Explodes on a transport. I just read it on any tank. Opps
Not happy with codex lay out. Points in back and not on data sheets.
Points question
for example the helbrute is armed with a multimelta and helbrute fist. do we have to add the cost for those weapons to the helbrute point cost or are they included?
Ineedvc2500 wrote: Not happy with codex lay out. Points in back and not on data sheets.
Points question
for example the helbrute is armed with a multimelta and helbrute fist. do we have to add the cost for those weapons to the helbrute point cost or are they included?
You have to add ALL gear, regardless of it being automatically included. I thought it was a bit stupid at first, but it really makes it easier to unify and streamline gear cost. You write down your model, all the fixins (default and extras together, any changes etc) and then flip to the last page and add up the shopping list.
Ineedvc2500 wrote: Not happy with codex lay out. Points in back and not on data sheets.
Points question
for example the helbrute is armed with a multimelta and helbrute fist. do we have to add the cost for those weapons to the helbrute point cost or are they included?
On the point sheet, at the top it states whether or not Wargear is included.
For general units its not included, for most characters it is included.
Yep, basically just rolling a d6 for overwatch hits, instead of the d3 you did last edition. A rather brutal buff for a weapon people already were fond of.
Yes but it appears the range limit still applies for flamers on overwatch. Cognis Flamers are even supposed to get to roll 2d6 and discard the lowest for number of overwatch hits, yet do nothing if the enemy starts charging through the entire range of the weapon from outside the range of the weapon.
Really the only thing in the new edition that has my knickers in a knot.
Whatt.. that's lame. It's not like they wouldn't be moving in closer as you're shooting. Charging from 8+ inches is difficult, but still. Might have to house rule that one away.
Well the 40k clearly doesn't work on assumption things are simultaneous. It's quite literally how they are played on the table.
Yep, basically just rolling a d6 for overwatch hits, instead of the d3 you did last edition. A rather brutal buff for a weapon people already were fond of.
Yes but it appears the range limit still applies for flamers on overwatch. Cognis Flamers are even supposed to get to roll 2d6 and discard the lowest for number of overwatch hits, yet do nothing if the enemy starts charging through the entire range of the weapon from outside the range of the weapon.
Really the only thing in the new edition that has my knickers in a knot.
Whatt.. that's lame. It's not like they wouldn't be moving in closer as you're shooting. Charging from 8+ inches is difficult, but still. Might have to house rule that one away.
Well the 40k clearly doesn't work on assumption things are simultaneous. It's quite literally how they are played on the table.
It's literally why there was a rule needed for Wall of Fire.
Models with Fly can move over enemy models because they ignore models for movement right? Even though you can't move within 1" of enemy models?
Falling back has no restrictions in direction, so long as you don't end up within 1" of enemy models, right?
So if you have a unit with Fly, you can "fall back" directly over the enemy and deeper into their lines, correct? And then immediately shoot and/or charge what you want past any screens?
PoorGravitasHandling wrote: I feel like I'm missing a few pages. Like the ones that explain what the Vehicle keyword means (I see Transports as a sidebar entry though).
Or "Terminator" (shared across both regular termi's and their cataphractii brethren).
I ask this because barring something I've missed in the book, terminators and dreads cannot assault after firing rapidfire or heavy weapons right? Which seems silly for an edition that's about getting on in there and doing cool stuff faster.
Vehicle does nothing in itself. It's only for what OTHER things to like haywire that gets bonus against vehicles. Vehicles themselves work 100% like tactical marine does.
Terminator likewise just in case somebody buffs or debuffs terminators. For example rhino prevents terminators.
And you can assault at will regardless of what you have shot at what. You can shoot everything at enemy squad A and then charge enemy squad B. Terminators need no special rule for that since that's how it works for all.
Models with Fly can move over enemy models because they ignore models for movement right? Even though you can't move within 1" of enemy models?
Falling back has no restrictions in direction, so long as you don't end up within 1" of enemy models, right?
So if you have a unit with Fly, you can "fall back" directly over the enemy and deeper into their lines, correct? And then immediately shoot and/or charge what you want past any screens?
In matched play, can you refuse to buy wargear for units that do not include it into the unit cost? Like can I just have a unit of assault marines charging up field with no chainsword, no bolter, no bolt pistol, no grenades? I know these are free but lets just say they cost 1pt a piece. Is there somewhere in the rules that tell me I have to buy this equipment no matter what?
Didn't see any specification saying "inly rule related questions", so here we go;
After just seeing the Repulsor video and this being the only thing I really know about the 8th edition besides the index system and the new box, are there any leaks about more coming models?
It seems Papa Smurf wants to re-realease some 30k technology n' stuff, so I thought about main battle tanks for space marines and more admech stuff, since that's the factions on his side...
For example I always would've liked a Legion Glaive in 40k and similar stuff (although a lot of people seem to be thinking bad about new SM tanks :( )
Anything leaked yet or will we have to see (I heard about Thunderhawks for Priamris SM somewhere, but I can't really remember).
Doubt they would start releasing much of plastic versions of FW models rather than inventing new units alltogether.
FW model in plastic=people who have resin version aren't big target to sell to.
New unit=every marine player is potential customer. Even every IG player is potential customer!
Backspacehacker wrote: 1. does the rule of one still exists, IE dice rolls of 1 always fail, if not, scarab occult terminators can not be wounded by bolters or anything that fires a single shot with no rend.
2. If you have a mechanic that allows you to reroll misses, and you use super chaged plasma, get a 1, are you allowed to reroll it and not deal with gets hot like twin linked used to be.
1) Yes, likewise 6 seems to always succeed...
2) Yes, inverse would be true as well, if you rolled a 2 and missed, rerolled and rolled a 1, you get the only instance of Instant Death I see in the game.
I have a Yannari question.
I just got the xenos book. And if I understand correctly, I can take a Falcon as dedicated transport for my incubi or wytches?
And start the game with the units inside the falcon?
I heard tell that you can only overwatch as far as weapon range permits meaning a charge out of a Drop Pod is actually outside a Flamer's 8" range, that true?
Dakka Wolf wrote: I heard tell that you can only overwatch as far as weapon range permits meaning a charge out of a Drop Pod is actually outside a Flamer's 8" range, that true?
Dakka Wolf wrote: I heard tell that you can only overwatch as far as weapon range permits meaning a charge out of a Drop Pod is actually outside a Flamer's 8" range, that true?
The rules just say "uses all the normal rules"
All normal rules - I'm guessing that means normal rules for shooting, meaning range is a thing.
Gotta love the vague GW writing.
Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote: I am unsure if this was asked already and it's a pretty dumb question as it probably has an answer and I didn't read it in the leaks.
Does the shooting Heavy Weapons on the move penalty affect vehicles too?
It does but several vehicles have rules letting you ignore it, varies from vehicle to vehicle.
Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote: I am unsure if this was asked already and it's a pretty dumb question as it probably has an answer and I didn't read it in the leaks.
Does the shooting Heavy Weapons on the move penalty affect vehicles too?
It does but several vehicles have rules letting you ignore it, varies from vehicle to vehicle.
Thanks.
I am not going mad then. I read the rules twice when on saturday when I was doing a 40 PL test match vs tau.
More likely there aren't any players who can answer your question online.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
admironheart wrote: If the enemy is 9" away after you deep strike and you assault/charge and you roll a 7.
do you:
1. not move
2 move 7" anywhere you want
3 move 7" toward the target unit
thanks
Doesn't actually say specifically but it does say if the charge fails because you can't get at your target due to having to move within an inch of an enemy model they don't move so my guess is 1. not move.
I have a question, it might be silly or simple, but do I need scatter dice? I'm trying to get set up and I know the templates are gone, just can't seem to find any info on scatter dice.
steam wrote: I have a Yannari question.
I just got the xenos book. And if I understand correctly, I can take a Falcon as dedicated transport for my incubi or wytches?
And start the game with the units inside the falcon?
You can start units inside a dedicated transport. Counts as a single unit (transport plus unit inside) for deployment purposes.
Have no idea on what you can take for dedicated transports on those skinny models...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Genesaika wrote: I have a question, it might be silly or simple, but do I need scatter dice? I'm trying to get set up and I know the templates are gone, just can't seem to find any info on scatter dice.
Nope, scatter is gone for everything.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
jamopower wrote: Is there a requirement that the casualties must be removed so that the unit coherency is not broken?
Not that I see, it only states that an unit must finish any type of move as a group. So Move, Advance, Charge, Consolidate, and Fall Back would all require to for all models to finish within 2" horizontally and 6" vertically. If anything causes an unit to be split up, it must re-establish coherency the next time it moves.
Doesn't say what happens if you do not reestablish though...
steam wrote: I have a Yannari question.
I just got the xenos book. And if I understand correctly, I can take a Falcon as dedicated transport for my incubi or wytches?
And start the game with the units inside the falcon?
It doesn't appear so. The ability to embark on other eldar transportation is tied to the specific Ynnead's Will ability, which is not conferred on all members of a Ynnari army. So while the unique characters can embark on anyone's transport, everyone else is stuck with their faction ones.
However, I do think you could take a Falcon using a dedicated transport slot even if you army was purely incubi and wyches. That seems allowed in case you wanna grab a falcon for the Ynnari HQs (or just for the guns or something) but aren't taking craftworld infantry. Not positive though.
It doesn't appear so. The ability to embark on other eldar transportation is tied to the specific Ynnead's Will ability, which is not conferred on all members of a Ynnari army. So while the unique characters can embark on anyone's transport, everyone else is stuck with their faction ones.
However, I do think you could take a Falcon using a dedicated transport slot even if you army was purely incubi and wyches. That seems allowed in case you wanna grab a falcon for the Ynnari HQs (or just for the guns or something) but aren't taking craftworld infantry. Not positive though.
Thank you! English is not my first language. So some times I dont understand what GW means.
As it states in the book, all models that you take for the ynnari army, get the ynnari key word. And I assumed if they all get the Ynnary key word, it means that I can start the game with an dark eldar units and an eldar transport.
It doesn't appear so. The ability to embark on other eldar transportation is tied to the specific Ynnead's Will ability, which is not conferred on all members of a Ynnari army. So while the unique characters can embark on anyone's transport, everyone else is stuck with their faction ones.
However, I do think you could take a Falcon using a dedicated transport slot even if you army was purely incubi and wyches. That seems allowed in case you wanna grab a falcon for the Ynnari HQs (or just for the guns or something) but aren't taking craftworld infantry. Not positive though.
Thank you! English is not my first language. So some times I dont understand what GW means.
As it states in the book, all models that you take for the ynnari army, get the ynnari key word. And I assumed if they all get the Ynnary key word, it means that I can start the game with an dark eldar units and an eldar transport.
They gain the "Ynnari" Keyword, but they require the ability "Ynnead Will" to be able to enter Transports
The only 2 models with the Ynnead Will ability are the Yvraine and Visarch. Nothing else.
It doesn't appear so. The ability to embark on other eldar transportation is tied to the specific Ynnead's Will ability, which is not conferred on all members of a Ynnari army. So while the unique characters can embark on anyone's transport, everyone else is stuck with their faction ones.
However, I do think you could take a Falcon using a dedicated transport slot even if you army was purely incubi and wyches. That seems allowed in case you wanna grab a falcon for the Ynnari HQs (or just for the guns or something) but aren't taking craftworld infantry. Not positive though.
Thank you! English is not my first language. So some times I dont understand what GW means.
As it states in the book, all models that you take for the ynnari army, get the ynnari key word. And I assumed if they all get the Ynnary key word, it means that I can start the game with an dark eldar units and an eldar transport.
The part you are missing is that there are no restrictions whatsoever in the core rules about who can get on what transport. If the Transport had a rule saying "Can transport 12 models" it would be able to transport 12 Imperial Knights just as easily as 12 Grots.
However, each transport has it's own restrictions and those are usually restricted specifically to their faction. For example, Wave Serpents don't say Aeldari Infantry, they say <Craftworld > Infantry. Which means if you were doing an alliance of Biel Tan and Iyanden for fluffy reasons, and you had units that had declared their Craftworld keyword as each, you Biel Tan Wave Serpent would not be able to transport their Iyanden Wraithguard. As near as I can tell, every single transport is faction keyword restricted, be it by Space Marine Chapter, Guard Regiment or Eldar Craftworld.
Ynnead's Will rule specifically overrides that - much like the Inquisitors have a rule allowing them to hitch a ride in any Imperial Transport. A lot of the general rules are now included in the specific models, so you have to be careful to read each model now to find all the rules.
*EDIT* Also someone mentioned something about having to buy a dedicated transport for a unit for them to start the game embarked. That rule does not exist either. You don't buy them for specific units, you have a choice of buying one per other unit you buy in the battleforged armies. You can buy a transport with a transport capacity of 10 and have ten separate character models hanging out in it - presuming there aren't restrictions on the transport itself.
If a chainsword has "each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon" and a model has 2 chainswords, would they get 2 additional attacks?
The way I'm reading it they would get 2 additional attacks as I can choose both swords to attack and thus receive the bobus, but would like to know what others think.
Kindsir wrote: Where are the looted wagon stats? Why must you do this to ork players GW. I'm a blood axe player, I actually need them to play a fluffy army.
I could find not reference to looked wagons in the ork index. They may come out later.
benlac wrote: If a chainsword has "each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon" and a model has 2 chainswords, would they get 2 additional attacks?
The way I'm reading it they would get 2 additional attacks as I can choose both swords to attack and thus receive the bobus, but would like to know what others think.
Considering it's a bit unusual to be able to nab two chainswords I'd go with yes.
Where does it state you pay for weapons and equipment? Because in that dark eldar fraction focus, they showed a point list including Raiders and their point cost did NOT show additional points paid for the dark lance ... so that is where I'm getting confused for units that say included wargear.
benlac wrote: If a chainsword has "each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon" and a model has 2 chainswords, would they get 2 additional attacks?
The way I'm reading it they would get 2 additional attacks as I can choose both swords to attack and thus receive the bobus, but would like to know what others think.
Considering it's a bit unusual to be able to nab two chainswords I'd go with yes.
Alright, but what about if a model has a plasma pistol & a chainsword. In melee I can opt to shoot the pistol, but can I also attack with the chainsword? So I would get one shot with the pistol, and 3 attacks with a chainsword (if my unit has 2atcks, and +1 for chainsword)?
benlac wrote: Alright, but what about if a model has a plasma pistol & a chainsword. In melee I can opt to shoot the pistol, but can I also attack with the chainsword? So I would get one shot with the pistol, and 3 attacks with a chainsword (if my unit has 2atcks, and +1 for chainsword)?
You make a shooting attack with the model's pistol(s) in the Shooting Phase. It would not affect the Assault Phase like it used to.
So if a model has 2 Attacks base, and is equipped with a Chainsword and Plasma Pistol, while in melee, it would get
- a plasma shot in the Shooting Phase against the unit it is engaged with, and
- 3 attacks in the Assault Phase at its WS and S values (2 attacks base, 1 extra for Chainsword.
benlac wrote: Alright, but what about if a model has a plasma pistol & a chainsword. In melee I can opt to shoot the pistol, but can I also attack with the chainsword? So I would get one shot with the pistol, and 3 attacks with a chainsword (if my unit has 2atcks, and +1 for chainsword)?
You make a shooting attack with the model's pistol(s) in the Shooting Phase. It would not affect the Assault Phase like it used to.
So if a model has 2 Attacks base, and is equipped with a Chainsword and Plasma Pistol, while in melee, it would get
- a plasma shot in the Shooting Phase against the unit it is engaged with, and
- 3 attacks in the Assault Phase at its WS and S values (2 attacks base, 1 extra for Chainsword.
Does that help?
Definitely, thanks. I might try this with a unit, seems like a solid option. Maybe accompanied by a captain to re-roll 1's too.
Colonel Cross wrote: Where does it state you pay for weapons and equipment? Because in that dark eldar fraction focus, they showed a point list including Raiders and their point cost did NOT show additional points paid for the dark lance ... so that is where I'm getting confused for units that say included wargear.
On page 214 of the rulebook: Add up all the points of your models and weapons and make sure it is lower than the agreed upon points total.
I cannot see where it says the model is armed with a Combat Shield, but has it in the abilities section. My question is whether the Combat Shield is built into his points cost or not.
And, the indexes are meant to be a stop gap, how much do we think the points values in them will change when the codexes get released?
What is the new "target" power level for a 45-90min game? I know points are still a thing, but for quick pew pew and list building, I wasn't sure what was considered the norm now. 50ish?
What is the new "target" power level for a 45-90min game? I know points are still a thing, but for quick pew pew and list building, I wasn't sure what was considered the norm now. 50ish?
Power levels are (roughly and with exceptions) points divided by 20. So going the reverse just means multiplying by 20.
Thus, power level of 50 is roughly a 100 points, 75 equals 1500, and 100 is 2000.
That said, due to massive point increases across the board, and the matched play suggestions, 2k (or a 100 power levels) will be a pretty standard game.
Forgive me, I haven't kept up with all of the 8th stuff (other than that my Sisters/DE are now...good)
The concept of Faction keywords. For DE, we get both Drukari and Aeldari. So... does that imply that I can run a mostly DE list, but pick one eldar piece for a particular role? Granted it wouldn't benefit from the buffs (power from pain, etc) but it could be at least fielded.
In the charge phase, you can charge any legal target. But it seems like you may pile in to nearby units without having charged them - thus locking them in combat. My understanding is you don't get to swing against these incidental targets, as you may only choose targets that you charged, but do these incidental targets get to fight in the combat? Am I understanding these aspects of Charge and Pile In correctly?
Desubot wrote: Hmm just noticed what does swarms and beast keywords do?
As of right now nothing which is true of most keywords at the moment. As codexes get released you'll probably see more aura and interactions between the various keywords.
Desubot wrote: Hmm just noticed what does swarms and beast keywords do?
As of right now nothing which is true of most keywords at the moment. As codexes get released you'll probably see more aura and interactions between the various keywords.
Lame. though just realized as necron scarabs are swarms and not infantry, they dont gain the benefit of ruin area terrain and cannot skitter up ruins.
Can vehicles also advance and then fire Assault weapons?
To my knowledge, yes. Vehicles are simply models with the <Vehicle> Keyword, and the restriction on firing assault weapons specifically applies to models.
On another note, I have a more complex question: how does consolidation work in 8th? It's probably obvious, but I'm still grappling with the rules changes so some of this doesn't seem to make sense to me from a 7th edition mindset. I checked over the new Dev Commentary and I couldn't find the answer to my question, so I'll pose it thus:
Do units always consolidate at the end of the Fight Phase? And can units consolidate in such a way as to be within 1" of enemy models?
BRB, p182: No models in the charging unit can move within 1" of an enemy units that was not a target of its charge
This would seem to preclude models moving to get within 1" of enemy units that were not charge targets, at least in the Fight Phase.
However, the 2nd step in the Fight Sequence (Pile In) is worded as such:
BRB, p182: You may move each model in the unit up to 3" - this move can be in any direction so long as the model ends the move closer to the nearest enemy model.
This would appear to prevent a unit that charged that turn from consolidating into combat with a unit that was not a target of its charge. But am I reading this correctly in that this rule would not prevent a unit that had not charged that turn from moving within 1" of an enemy model?
Furthermore, there is the matter of the 6th step of the Fight Phase (Consolidate) which is worded
BRB p183: You may move each model in the unit up to 3" - this move can be in any direction so long as the model ends the move closer to the nearest enemy model.
This rule would most likely not apply to models already engaged in close combat with an enemy model, as they would only be able to move up to B2B contact. But what if the unit is large, and for a model the nearest enemy unit may be one that was not the target of previous CC attacks or even a unit that was not charged this turn? Can you really consolidate into and out of combat in 8th edition?
Would really appreciate an answer to this, as it is confusing me.
First, keep in mind the general restriction to moving within 1" of an enemy model only applies in the movement phase. [This restriction is on page 3 on the core rules pdf, the freely available one]
Do units always consolidate at the end of the Fight Phase? And can units consolidate in such a way as to be within 1" of enemy models?
BRB, p182: No models in the charging unit can move within 1" of an enemy units that was not a target of its charge
This would seem to preclude models moving to get within 1" of enemy units that were not charge targets, at least in the Fight Phase.
Nope, this is happening in the Charge phase. Basically, all this does is prevent you from charging any unit that you haven't declared on. This is a separate restriction from the general movement phase rule, which does not apply.
But this 1" restriction only applies to the Charge phase, when piling in kicks is after you select the unit in the Fight phase, at that point neither 1" restriction applies.
However, the 2nd step in the Fight Sequence (Pile In) is worded as such:
BRB, p182: You may move each model in the unit up to 3" - this move can be in any direction so long as the model ends the move closer to the nearest enemy model.
This would appear to prevent a unit that charged that turn from consolidating into combat with a unit that was not a target of its charge. But am I reading this correctly in that this rule would not prevent a unit that had not charged that turn from moving within 1" of an enemy model?
First- they aren't consolidating at this step. This is piling in.
Everyone, even units that charge, get to pile in when they are chosen to fight (the example of play makes this clearer). The only limitation is nearest enemy model. There are cases where a model in another unit will be more than 1" from a charging unit's final position in the Charge phase, but still be the nearest enemy model in the pile in step of the Fight phase [even, in extreme cases, if the 3" pile in move can't actually reach that nearest model.
In the Fight phase, neither Chargers nor non-Chargers are prevented from engaging more enemy units at this step, but only if it would be the nearest enemy model (to one of your models in the unit you currently have selected). But this is a 'may move' situation, so you don't have to add more units to the scrum (if you stay more than 1" away from an unengaged unit, they don't get to join in- so you don't have to trigger an unengaged berserker unit standing next to cultists unless you really, really want to.
Furthermore, there is the matter of the 6th step of the Fight Phase (Consolidate) which is worded
BRB p183: You may move each model in the unit up to 3" - this move can be in any direction so long as the model ends the move closer to the nearest enemy model.
This rule would most likely not apply to models already engaged in close combat with an enemy model, as they would only be able to move up to B2B contact. But what if the unit is large, and for a model the nearest enemy unit may be one that was not the target of previous CC attacks or even a unit that was not charged this turn? Can you really consolidate into and out of combat in 8th edition?
Well, you can't consolidate out, as that would be further from the nearest enemy model rather than closer. You could end up with no one within an inch of your 3" consolidate move (or more likely, no one within the 1" engagement range), however. Also you can move less than 3", so you don't actually engage anyone (this is 'may move' again, so you don't actually have to move, but if you do move it has to be closer, but you aren't required to engage). But if you are engaged, you can't really consolidate out.
Edit: Actually, I suspect it is theoretically possible, but it involves two enemy models from two different units and in consolidating closer to the nearest one, so your model's base ends up more than an inch away from the other enemy. It could happen, but very unlikely to happen with units. Individual models could have an easier time to cheese it a little, thanks to the 'Designer's Commentary' (the last question on page 2- there is no real restriction on consolidation movement as long as it is up to 3" and it ends closer to the enemy than where it began). So you can actually walk 'past' a model to move the full 3", as long as your base is closer than it was when you started.
So for example, if your Jump Chaplain multicharged a unit of Gretchin and the Warboss standing next to them and ended up .8" inches from the warboss and .6" from the nearest gretchin, after attacking the warboss he could consolidate 3" along the front of the gretchin as long as his base ended up .59" or closer to that gretchin, leaving the warboss completely unengaged and unable to fight.
But yes, you can move closer to a unit that wasn't involved, and so consolidate into more combat. This would actually allow them to fight in the current fight phase though, so it may not be a good idea. (On the other hand, it allows you to tie another unit up, so that have to fall back next round or fight). But keep in mind, it has to be nearest enemy.
Voss wrote: First, keep in mind the general restriction to moving within 1" of an enemy model only applies in the movement phase. [This restriction is on page 3 on the core rules pdf, the freely available one]
Do units always consolidate at the end of the Fight Phase? And can units consolidate in such a way as to be within 1" of enemy models?
BRB, p182: No models in the charging unit can move within 1" of an enemy units that was not a target of its charge
This would seem to preclude models moving to get within 1" of enemy units that were not charge targets, at least in the Fight Phase.
Nope, this is happening in the Charge phase. Basically, all this does is prevent you from charging any unit that you haven't declared on. This is a separate restriction from the general movement phase rule, which does not apply.
But this 1" restriction only applies to the Charge phase, when piling in kicks in when you select the unit in the Fight phase, neither 1" restriction applies.
However, the 2nd step in the Fight Sequence (Pile In) is worded as such:
BRB, p182: You may move each model in the unit up to 3" - this move can be in any direction so long as the model ends the move closer to the nearest enemy model.
This would appear to prevent a unit that charged that turn from consolidating into combat with a unit that was not a target of its charge. But am I reading this correctly in that this rule would not prevent a unit that had not charged that turn from moving within 1" of an enemy model?
First- they aren't consolidating at this step. This is piling in.
Everyone, even units that charge, get to pile in when they are chosen to fight (the example of play makes this clearer). The only limitation is nearest enemy model. There are cases where a model in another unit will be more than 1" from a charging unit's final position in the Charge phase, but still be the nearest enemy model in the pile in step of the Fight phase [even, in extreme cases, if the 3" pile in move can't actually reach that nearest model.
In the Fight phase, neither Chargers nor non-Chargers are prevented from engaging more enemy units at this step, but only if it would be the nearest enemy model (to one of your models in the unit you currently have selected). But this is a 'may move' situation, so you don't have to add more units to the scrum (if you stay more than 1" away from an unengaged unit, they don't get to join in- so you don't have to trigger an unengaged berserker unit standing next to cultists unless you really, really want to.
Furthermore, there is the matter of the 6th step of the Fight Phase (Consolidate) which is worded
BRB p183: You may move each model in the unit up to 3" - this move can be in any direction so long as the model ends the move closer to the nearest enemy model.
This rule would most likely not apply to models already engaged in close combat with an enemy model, as they would only be able to move up to B2B contact. But what if the unit is large, and for a model the nearest enemy unit may be one that was not the target of previous CC attacks or even a unit that was not charged this turn? Can you really consolidate into and out of combat in 8th edition?
Well, you can't consolidate out, as that would be further from the nearest enemy model rather than closer. You could end up with no one within an inch of your 3" consolidate move (or more likely, no one within the 1" engagement range), however. Also you can move less than 3", so you don't actually engage anyone (this is 'may move' again, so you don't actually have to move, but if you do move it has to be closer, but you aren't required to engage). But if you are engaged, you can't really consolidate out.
Edit: Actually, I suspect it is theoretically possible, but it involves two enemy models from two different units and in consolidating closer to the nearest one, so your model's base ends up more than an inch away from the other enemy. It could happen, but very unlikely to happen with units. Individual models could have an easier time to cheese it a little, thanks to the 'Designer's Commentary' (the last question on page 2- there is no real restriction on consolidation movement as long as it is 3" and it ends closer to than where it began). So you can actually walk 'past' a model to move the full 3", as long as your base is closer than it was when you started.
So for example, if your Jump Chaplain multicharged a unit of Gretchin and the Warboss standing next to them and ended up .8" inches from the warboss and .6" from the nearest gretchin, after attacking the warboss he could consolidate 3" along the front of the gretchin as long as his base ended up .59" or closer to that gretchin, leaving the warboss completely unengaged and unable to fight.
But yes, you can move closer to a unit that wasn't involved, and so consolidate into more combat. This would actually allow them to fight in the current fight phase though, so it may not be a good idea. (On the other hand, it allows you to tie another unit up, so that have to fall back next round or fight). But keep in mind, it has to be nearest enemy.
Thanks for answering my question. You cleared up my confusion.
Am I reading it wrong, or is it impossible for infantry to engage raiders, falcons etc. in to close combat if they have over 1" flying stands as all ranges are measured from bases and the rules of falcons and such state that the the base is ignored for those and you measure from hull instead, which is over 1" up in the air? (By RAW, not that I would ever try to pull that out)
Hey Guys, I'm a CSM player and just got my index yesterday, I was reading and was confused by the <Legion> tag:
My problem is if I am using abbadon and using Black legion <legion>, if I run a khorne lord on a jugg, will I still receive the rerolling 1s for units or am I able to specify what mark a unit has and they will receive the proximity bonus
Forgot to mention the Khorne lord gives rerolling 1s to hit for KHORNE <legion>, wondering what this means essentially.
What is the new "target" power level for a 45-90min game? I know points are still a thing, but for quick pew pew and list building, I wasn't sure what was considered the norm now. 50ish?
Power levels are (roughly and with exceptions) points divided by 20. So going the reverse just means multiplying by 20.
Thus, power level of 50 is roughly a 100 points, 75 equals 1500, and 100 is 2000.
That said, due to massive point increases across the board, and the matched play suggestions, 2k (or a 100 power levels) will be a pretty standard game.
so am i correct in assuming that 25 power equals 500 points?
but what would 750p be? by your math it is 37,5 but it just sounds wrong to say to my freind, hey lets play a 37,5 power game..
This one might be easy as RAW there doesn't seem to be any issue. More like a Wtf fluff moment:
Is the Apothecary allowed to try and revive the same model in subsequent turns if it failed to do so?
The rule says he cannot perform any other actions as he is retrieving geneseed. Seems strange for him to remove the guys organs and then bring him back... But RAW, it works.
