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Are regular flamers worth it on jump/fly units anymore?

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Are regular flamers worth it on jump/fly units anymore?

This is not a rules question - this is a request for a subjective opinion about how "worth it" something is.

(however - I think it will depend on how good the flamer is, and what you are fighting).

Heres a question then,

If a transport is destroyed we disembark, roll for ones and remove vehicle, and THEN roll for explodes hitting the unit that just disembarked?

My main question is: what army am I going to come back to 40k with? Reading over all the leaks, they all seem quite fun now. I just can't decide! (More to answer for myself)

Onto a more relevant question, and also part of a worry:

Are infantry going to dominate now? They've become a hell of a lot cheaper for almost every army. Me and my brother were doing some numbers and in an average 1,500pt game, you can have 450 conscripts rushing across the table, dishing out unruly numbers of shots, buffed by orders to sometimes quadroople that number, and sit a couple of commissars in the middle of it all making them all but fearless. Snipers take them out? Have fun anyway getting rid of 450 models that can kill anything on 6's. And with the amount of shots they dish out, they can in fact kill the big things. If not, 450 bodies sitting on objectives cannot be moved.

Most people will probably not do this (as amazingly awesome it would be to have a Russian themed conscript army), as that's an insane model count and shot count, causing that game to be excruciating to play. Could you imagine moving that many figures and rolling that many dice? However, I just wanted to bring to attention that, vehicles and other more elite choices now mostly being upped in price, and infantry being made cheaper and can now technically hurt anything, could cause infantry to dominate games, with people taking little to nothing else in some cases.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Heres a question then,

If a transport is destroyed we disembark, roll for ones and remove vehicle, and THEN roll for explodes hitting the unit that just disembarked?

From my understanding, when it gets destroyed, you roll the d6 and dish mortal wounds where applicable (including on the unit inside) and then you roll for 1's on the unit inside. Or perhaps it's either or. Good question

The purpose is to push infantry to the forefront by making vehicles more expensive. We won't see until we play if it succeeds in doing that.

My army I am trying tomorrow evening at my FLGS is:



So, we will see how using a vehicle heavy army works against a mob force.

Magnus and Ahriman want to know where there fething spells are.

Youn wrote:
The purpose is to push infantry to the forefront by making vehicles more expensive. We won't see until we play if it succeeds in doing that.

Yeah I think it's a cool idea in concept, and I'm totally going to be throwing in a mix a Units. Finally a heap of stuff seems worth taking the more I look at everything, you just can't take as much which is totally fair. I'm just worried that infantry have become a bit too cheap and competitive games will become spammed infantry. But yeah, we'll have to wait and see. Hopefully I'm wrong

Also, nice army list! Looks really fun


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:
Magnus and Ahriman want to know where there fething spells are.

I'm going to assume that a similar thing will happen with this as AoS. When your army book comes out, it'll come with a list of additional spells that your spellcasters can take

davethepak wrote:

 Grimgold wrote:
Can you shoot out of transports, I've seen the bit about shooting pistols when the transport is assaulted, but that's it. There aren't any open topped vehicles anymore, so one rule would have to apply to them all, from trucks to land raiders.

Yes, you can shoot out of open topped transports. If the thing moved, and you are firing a heavy weapon, for the most part, you will take a -1 to hit.

This is covered in the rules for the specific transports;

Examples:
Tau devilfish has no rules about shooting from it.
DE Raider has rule called: "open topped" you can shoot out of it (a bit more than that, but you get the idea).
SM Land Speeder storm has rule called "Open topped" - you can shoot out of it too - looks very similar to the rule listed on the DE raider.
SM Rhino however, has no rule like this.
IG Chimera - has no mention of hatches...BUT, has a "lasgun array" which can be fired if there is a unit embarked in it.

Chimera has just lost that. No longer can you shoot melta or Plasma out the back. Now you just got the Lasgun arrays. They are also 15 pts more Im afraid as well.

It should be noted that you cannot set up a unit in reserves unless it says it can be set up in reserves. So, as my above army is designed. I must start with those Stormravens on the table to start.

The teleporters on the dreadknights do allow them to teleport in during the fight.

*Also Question*

Now that an individual tank in a squadron of Leeman Russes count as an individual unit after deployment, will calling an order on one go to the whole squadron or no? Seems like a lot of stuff is weakening the effectiveness of orders?

Pedroig wrote:


1) Yes, likewise 6 seems to always succeed...

Agreed on 1s always fail, but I haven't seen anything on the 6s - where does it say so?

We arent really told much about moving through terrain, unless I'm missing something. So no longer slowed, no more dangerous terrain tests. I'm cool with that.

As long as bikes and vehicles end their move on the ground floor, can they move through the walls as well?

 NenkotaMoon wrote:
*Also Question*

Now that an individual tank in a squadron of Leeman Russes count as an individual unit after deployment, will calling an order on one go to the whole squadron or no? Seems like a lot of stuff is weakening the effectiveness of orders?

It says once deployed on the table and the game begins, each vehicle counts as a separate unit, so orders will apply only to one vehicle. It's rough, but also means you can fit more tanks in without them all being able to be blown up by the same unit targeting them. So it's a win and a loss at the same time. Same as guard blobs being gone. Can't merge squads of 10 anymore into blobs of 30+. So Guard have a couple of nerfs but for the most part they've been buffed.

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 NenkotaMoon wrote:
*Also Question*

Now that an individual tank in a squadron of Leeman Russes count as an individual unit after deployment, will calling an order on one go to the whole squadron or no? Seems like a lot of stuff is weakening the effectiveness of orders?

It says once deployed on the table and the game begins, each vehicle counts as a separate unit, so orders will apply only to one vehicle. It's rough, but also means you can fit more tanks in without them all being able to be blown up by the same unit targeting them. So it's a win and a loss at the same time. Same as guard blobs being gone. Can't merge squads of 10 anymore into blobs of 30+. So Guard have a couple of nerfs but for the most part they've been buffed.

Buffed how?

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
We arent really told much about moving through terrain, unless I'm missing something. So no longer slowed, no more dangerous terrain tests. I'm cool with that.

As long as bikes and vehicles end their move on the ground floor, can they move through the walls as well?

The battle terrain section gives rules for terrain.

Woods: INFANTRY get cover if base in terrain area. Models subtract 2" when charging through woods.
Ruins: VEHICLES, MONSTERS and BIKES can only go on ground floor unless they have FLY. INFANTRY get cover if at least 50% of model obscured.
Craters: Infantry get cover within craters. Charging subtracts 2" if you cross a crater.
Barricades: INFANTRY within 1" of barricade, and behind it from the point of view of the firing units get cover. If fighting across a barricade melee distance is 2" instead of 1".
Obstacles: VEHICLES and MONSTERS half movement over obstacles. TITANIC not slowed.
Imperial Statue: Models within 3" of status get cover if 25% obscured. IMPERIAL units in 3" get leadership +1.
Fuel pipes: Make save needing 6 on dice vs shooting. On 1, pipe ruptures and causing 1 mortal wound.
Battlescape: On a 1 moving through area receive 1 mortal wound from mines.
Hills: Can give cover if your behind them.

question that I have not seen answered.

So I have a unit inside a chimera. They move and then fire the tanks's lasguns. The chimera then charges and dies from overwatch.

Now the unit inside survives and is placed legally 3" away.

CAN I NOW CHARGE with the surviving unit?

thanks

 admironheart wrote:
question that I have not seen answered.

So I have a unit inside a chimera. They move and then fire the tanks's lasguns. The chimera then charges and dies from overwatch.

Now the unit inside survives and is placed legally 3" away.

CAN I NOW CHARGE with the surviving unit?

thanks

Nothing that I have read stops this from happening.

 admironheart wrote:
2nd .....some versions ago there use to be 1st turn immunity to attack if you remained in your deployment zone. Is that still a thing or has it been gone for a while now and as well as 8th?

I ask as there is a lot of chatter about 1st turn moves that get in the alpha strike assault.

thanks

That was because there wasn't any ability to do it fast enough. Now there is so yeah T1 assaults will be quite common.

tneva82 wrote:

 admironheart wrote:
2nd .....some versions ago there use to be 1st turn immunity to attack if you remained in your deployment zone. Is that still a thing or has it been gone for a while now and as well as 8th?

I ask as there is a lot of chatter about 1st turn moves that get in the alpha strike assault.

thanks

That was because there wasn't any ability to do it fast enough. Now there is so yeah T1 assaults will be quite common.

And you can even start inside a transport for additional protection and (ironically) movement.

Do unit aura buffs ala OOOs +1 to hit for nearby carnifexes also affect the host unit i.e. OOO himself?

Yes, as long as the aura xreator shares the same keyword as the aura effect

 Ratius wrote:
Do unit aura buffs ala OOOs +1 to hit for nearby carnifexes also affect the host unit i.e. OOO himself?

Depends on specific rules wording. This one boosts all Carnifex units. That Carnifex doesn't seem to be keyword(not bolded) so I would say no in this case.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pedroig wrote:
Yes, as long as the aura xreator shares the same keyword as the aura effect

Problem here there seems to be two specifiers. Keyword <Hive fleet> and then carnifex unit. Is that carnifex keyword or not? I thought keywords are bolded which this is not.

Should St Celestine have the "you may only have one of this model in your army" ? (I think that's a yes)

If you are running multiple Craftworlds, should the same rule be removed for the Avatar of Khaine? (same answer)

If a debuff makes you -1 to hit in shooting and you overwatch is it an automatic fail 6-1 =7?

What is the new black?
Game-wise and army-wise.

Don't see anything that would indicate 6 is always success...Could be wrong though.

Looks like that is common in the entire Xenos 2 book of not bolding unit type like they do in the Imperium 1 book.

OOO is a Carnifex the power says all <Hive Fleet> Carnifex within 6" of model. OOO is a Carnifex and is naturally the same <Hive Fleet>

Broodlord is a Genestealer, hence it is effected by its aura as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:
Don't see anything that would indicate 6 is always success...Could be wrong though.

It's not, bad math on my part. Armour save 6+ get hit by a AP-2 means no save is possible....

Where are my Death Guard terminators?

 Rippy wrote:
Where are my Death Guard terminators?

Ask Trazyn

 NenkotaMoon wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 NenkotaMoon wrote:
*Also Question*

Now that an individual tank in a squadron of Leeman Russes count as an individual unit after deployment, will calling an order on one go to the whole squadron or no? Seems like a lot of stuff is weakening the effectiveness of orders?

It says once deployed on the table and the game begins, each vehicle counts as a separate unit, so orders will apply only to one vehicle. It's rough, but also means you can fit more tanks in without them all being able to be blown up by the same unit targeting them. So it's a win and a loss at the same time. Same as guard blobs being gone. Can't merge squads of 10 anymore into blobs of 30+. So Guard have a couple of nerfs but for the most part they've been buffed.

Buffed how?

Bullgryns are good now; Sentenals look tough enough to be worth it now; heavy weapon teams can be in a squad and now shoot at different targets to the squad; rough riders look good now with some epic charge damage; while being a bit disappointing damage wise, tanks are really tough now; the taurox prime looks amazing now; troops have been made cheaper and can now technically hurt anything in the game, so the humble lasgun has been given a massive buff; orders have been rebalanced and all look useful now, etc. there's a pretty big list of things that make Guard good now


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ratius wrote:
If a debuff makes you -1 to hit in shooting and you overwatch is it an automatic fail 6-1 =7?

I could be wrong, but didn't they say overwatch was a flat 6, no matter what? I'm pretty sure it isn't affected by modifiers. Don't quote me on that though