I'm relatively new to the 40k universe and my question is very fluff related.
I've started collecting Space Wolves since I like the look of them and the lore I've read so far.
The question I have is how will the SW react to the reinforcements of the Primaris marines?
How will they fit into their packs? As far as I understand, every SW must start their career as a Blood Claw then earn the ranks of Grey Hunter, Long Fang, Scout and so on.
For example. According to the Dark Imperium box, a Primaris Intercessor marine has the same type of pack markings(a black mark over a red field) as a Grey Hunter, a seasoned warrior.
I have a hard time seeing the Grey Hunters or any other SW accepting that these fresh out of the pod marines will have any other rank in their packs other than Blood Claw(if they are even accepted as SW).
I pre-ordered a Dark Imperium box since I think the box itself and all the models look awesome. I'm thinking of painting the Primaris marines as their own "reinforcement chapter" and not accepting them into my SW packs.
I'm asking the more seasoned SW commanders here, what are your thoughts on this? How will you handle these new marines?
As a SW general I would make the call to have the Primaris operate as a separate unit within the chapter, determining their own breakdown of ranking within their own self-contained packs. I imagine the wolves to be wary, but nonetheless respectful of the Primaris should they prove their worth in battle. I imagine that the Primaris will not mingle with the other marines in terms of squad composition for the purposes of ranking though.
I would think that Space Wolves would think of the Primarii(?) as fresh fish, at the best. Maybe after several battles they'd earn their honor, but only then.
My personal Space Wolves refuse to accept them for the time being, but they are an extremely special case. I'm using a force built out of the 13th Company combo-kits back during the Eye of Terror campaign, so my justification is either A: I may just use them as 13th Company, as in-universe the EoT campaign 'just ended', or B: that they are a standard Great Company trapped on the other side of the Warp Rift with no support- so no Primarii, and damaged armor replaced with captured Chaos wargear- effectively a M41-era 13th Company.
At least the former idea has great support from the Horus Heresy boardgame plastics to reinforce that they are Horus Heresy-era marines- especially a few Wolf Guard in vintage Cataphractii armor, and maybe a single Contemptor with some converted Chaos armor plate replacements, even though that violates the 'no vehicles' fluff of the original 13th co.
Aetare wrote: As a SW general I would make the call to have the Primaris operate as a separate unit within the chapter, determining their own breakdown of ranking within their own self-contained packs. I imagine the wolves to be wary, but nonetheless respectful of the Primaris should they prove their worth in battle. I imagine that the Primaris will not mingle with the other marines in terms of squad composition for the purposes of ranking though.
How would you handle their ranks? Would it be like the other packs, everyone starts from the bottom and work their way up. From an Intercessor to a Hellblaster? Or can an SW Primaris marine start their career as a Hellblaster?
And let's say they prove themselves in battle, would they eventually be accepted to the rank of Blood Claw? Or will a Primaris marine always be separated from the original SW ranks?
Some intreasting Primaris Marine Lore from Dark Imperium.
the Ultima Founding was split in half, half the Primaris Marines formed new chapters. the other half formed a group that was basicly a Legion called the unnumbered sons, that where deployed in every form imaginationable, sometimes in strike groups of 5, sometimes in multiple chapter sized groups etc. the unnumbered sons (also known as Grey Shields) where the ones gifted to various active chapters.
this means by time gulliman gifted Primaris Marines to say... space wolves, the Marines would have proven themselves in battle.
Instead of including outsiders just have any primeris be wolves that took the upgrade.
The lore is frankly way to thin but any new recruits would be treated like blood claws and thrown in the deep end, if they survive they'll find their place.
BrianDavion wrote: Some intreasting Primaris Marine Lore from Dark Imperium.
the Ultima Founding was split in half, half the Primaris Marines formed new chapters. the other half formed a group that was basicly a Legion called the unnumbered sons, that where deployed in every form imaginationable, sometimes in strike groups of 5, sometimes in multiple chapter sized groups etc. the unnumbered sons (also known as Grey Shields) where the ones gifted to various active chapters.
this means by time gulliman gifted Primaris Marines to say... space wolves, the Marines would have proven themselves in battle.
Interesting!
Still, I'm having a hard time figuring out how they would be incorporated into the SW chapter.
hobojebus wrote: Instead of including outsiders just have any primeris be wolves that took the upgrade.
The lore is frankly way to thin but any new recruits would be treated like blood claws and thrown in the deep end, if they survive they'll find their place.
Well, maybe. I agree that they would have to start off as Blood Claws if they ever would be accepted as SW. But they would basically only be bigger Grey Hunters or bigger Blood Claws for example. They wouldn't be Intercessors or Hellblasters.
I don't have a hard time figuring out how to reinforce SW with fresh super marines, that's not the problem. The problem is how to(or if its even possible) include specific ranks of Primaris marines into the SW chapter, e.g Intercessors or Hellblasters.
thats my feeling too, Gulliman also could hedge his bets by quietly bringing in instructors from the various chapters to teach them of their linnage, the real weird chapters are gonna be the ones who are descended from a partiuclar legion but have diverged CONSIDERABLY from their original herritage
Galas wrote: If Space Wolves accept Wulfen, they are gonna accept Primaris Marines.
Wasnt Wulfen the long lost 13th great company? In other words already Space Wolves.
sure but they where massivly mutated etc. which is seen as a abd thing. almost any other chapter would have been horrified and screamed "purge them all" the space wolves reckongized and accepted their common ancestory
Galas wrote: If Space Wolves accept Wulfen, they are gonna accept Primaris Marines.
Wulfen were wolves before they changed they share the same gene father and heritage, even separated by 10 millennium they are still one and the same.
These new guys are not fenrisians so far as we know, they don't share their experience fighting trolls, kraken and wyrms on the ice Fields so they can't ever be true wolves.
Aetare wrote: As a SW general I would make the call to have the Primaris operate as a separate unit within the chapter, determining their own breakdown of ranking within their own self-contained packs. I imagine the wolves to be wary, but nonetheless respectful of the Primaris should they prove their worth in battle. I imagine that the Primaris will not mingle with the other marines in terms of squad composition for the purposes of ranking though.
How would you handle their ranks? Would it be like the other packs, everyone starts from the bottom and work their way up. From an Intercessor to a Hellblaster? Or can an SW Primaris marine start their career as a Hellblaster?
And let's say they prove themselves in battle, would they eventually be accepted to the rank of Blood Claw? Or will a Primaris marine always be separated from the original SW ranks?
Separate ranking system, starting with intercessor but never leading into the ranks of the blood claws. Separate command structure still at the disposal of Grimnar.
Galas wrote: If Space Wolves accept Wulfen, they are gonna accept Primaris Marines.
Wasnt Wulfen the long lost 13th great company? In other words already Space Wolves.
sure but they where massivly mutated etc. which is seen as a abd thing. almost any other chapter would have been horrified and screamed "purge them all" the space wolves reckongized and accepted their common ancestory
True. Maybe one could justify the Primaris marines as the 14th Company or maybe just The/1st Reinforcement Company?
hobojebus wrote: Another thing is they can't use the gene seed from dead new marines as it lacks the canis helix, there'd never be more than one generation.
Galas wrote: If Space Wolves accept Wulfen, they are gonna accept Primaris Marines.
Wulfen were wolves before they changed they share the same gene father and heritage, even separated by 10 millennium they are still one and the same.
These new guys are not fenrisians so far as we know, they don't share their experience fighting trolls, kraken and wyrms on the ice Fields so they can't ever be true wolves.
I don't think they were wolves, But marines with the curse of the Wulfen.
From warhammer40k.wiki
"The Wulfen are Space Marines of the Space Wolves Chapter who have succumbed to the Curse of the Wulfen and transformed into savage, malformed lupine mutants. Within every Space Wolf's gene-seed is the specific genetic sequence known as the Canis Helix which invests the Space Wolves with the acute predatory senses of the Fenrisian Wolves native to their homeworld of Fenris. When Aspirants undergo the beginning of the physical changes that will transform them into superhuman Astartes during the brutal trial known as The Blooding, not every candidate is able to overcome the feral Curse that the activation of the Canis Helix unleashes within them, and they suffer the horrible fate of transforming into one of these fell creatures."
Galas wrote: If Space Wolves accept Wulfen, they are gonna accept Primaris Marines.
Wasnt Wulfen the long lost 13th great company? In other words already Space Wolves.
sure but they where massivly mutated etc. which is seen as a bad thing. almost any other chapter would have been horrified and screamed "purge them all" the space wolves reckongized and accepted their common ancestory
The 13th company were Wulfen before they chased the Sons into the warp, on top of that one of the Wolves' current Wolf Lords is a Wulfen himself, Bran Redmaw the Curs'd Lord. Still, not all Space Wolves actually accepted their return.
Amusing that Harold Deathwolf was the one to reject the hairy sodds considering his moniker is Lord of Wolfkin.
hobojebus wrote: Another thing is they can't use the gene seed from dead new marines as it lacks the canis helix, there'd never be more than one generation.
what makes you think it lacks the Canis Helix?
Well if they are made using smurf gene seed they'll lack it, do we have confirmation they used actual space wolf gene seed?
hobojebus wrote: Another thing is they can't use the gene seed from dead new marines as it lacks the canis helix, there'd never be more than one generation.
what makes you think it lacks the Canis Helix?
Well if they are made using smurf gene seed they'll lack it, do we have confirmation they used actual space wolf gene seed?
yes. the gene seed of all 9 loyalist legions was used.
hobojebus wrote: Another thing is they can't use the gene seed from dead new marines as it lacks the canis helix, there'd never be more than one generation.
what makes you think it lacks the Canis Helix?
Well if they are made using smurf gene seed they'll lack it, do we have confirmation they used actual space wolf gene seed?
I think I read somewhere that Cawl used gene seed from all founding chapters. Can not confirm it though.
Galas wrote: If Space Wolves accept Wulfen, they are gonna accept Primaris Marines.
Wasnt Wulfen the long lost 13th great company? In other words already Space Wolves.
sure but they where massivly mutated etc. which is seen as a bad thing. almost any other chapter would have been horrified and screamed "purge them all" the space wolves reckongized and accepted their common ancestory
The 13th company were Wulfen before they chased the Sons into the warp, on top of that one of the Wolves' current Wolf Lords is a Wulfen himself, Bran Redmaw the Curs'd Lord. Still, not all Space Wolves actually accepted their return.
Amusing that Harold Deathwolf was the one to reject the hairy sodds considering his moniker is Lord of Wolfkin.
Yes okay, still. They were already Space Wolves, they had/have the canis helix like every other SW.
I think we have gone a bit off topic. The thread is about how you would incorporate let's say for example a squad of Primaris Hellblaster into the SW ranks. I can't figure out how it would be possible w/o dropping the rank of Hellblaster and start as a Blood Claw.
But then they wouldn't be Hellblasters anymore.
Galas wrote: If Space Wolves accept Wulfen, they are gonna accept Primaris Marines.
Wasnt Wulfen the long lost 13th great company? In other words already Space Wolves.
sure but they where massivly mutated etc. which is seen as a bad thing. almost any other chapter would have been horrified and screamed "purge them all" the space wolves reckongized and accepted their common ancestory
The 13th company were Wulfen before they chased the Sons into the warp, on top of that one of the Wolves' current Wolf Lords is a Wulfen himself, Bran Redmaw the Curs'd Lord. Still, not all Space Wolves actually accepted their return.
Amusing that Harold Deathwolf was the one to reject the hairy sodds considering his moniker is Lord of Wolfkin.
Yes okay, still. They were already Space Wolves, they had/have the canis helix like every other SW.
I think we have gone a bit off topic. The thread is about how you would incorporate let's say for example a squad of Primaris Hellblaster into the SW ranks. I can't figure out how it would be possible w/o dropping the rank of Hellblaster and start as a Blood Claw.
But then they wouldn't be Hellblasters anymore.
My point was that the Wolves' reaction to the Primaris Marines will be mixed, same as their reaction to just about everything, they'll argue long and hard then something will demand their attention and they'll forget the argument. The Primaris Marines will join them in the situation and the Wolves will act as if they've always been part of the chapter.
The Space Wolves already have a Blood Claw with skills beyond most Wolf Guard, they have no issue forcing units and individuals to start in the Blood Claws and earn their way out.
I could also see the space wolves also creating new names for ranks, given the Leuitenant is a thing (and over all a good idea) I wonder what the Space Wolves will name theirs? Wolfcarls maybe?
hobojebus wrote: Even if they have the right gene seed they still won't be fenrisians and we know how the wolf brothers turned out.
Am I reading this new background differently? Everyone seems to be thinking that the Primaris Marines were all created by Cawl and Guilliman then sent, trained and equipped, out to the various Chapters. To me, it looks like the earliest Primaris were indeed created centrally, but then the new gene seed and techniques were distributed to the Chapters to begin enhancing their existing brethren and recruiting new initiates using the Primaris process. The Space Wolves' New Primaris gene seed contains their unique traits, and some or all Fenrisians recruited by the Space Wolves are implanted with the Primaris geneseed. Of course, after Magnus' efforts, the Wolves have other issues with recruitment, but that's a different story.
Game-wise, you're going to be stuck using the same Primaris squads as everyone else, but I bet the 8th edition Codex Space Wolves will have their own unique Primaris units.
the leaks for 8th edition Space Wolves did not include Primaris Marines on the list. Blood Angels and Dark Angles had them on the list, but not Space Wolves.
Galas wrote: If Space Wolves accept Wulfen, they are gonna accept Primaris Marines.
Wasnt Wulfen the long lost 13th great company? In other words already Space Wolves.
sure but they where massivly mutated etc. which is seen as a bad thing. almost any other chapter would have been horrified and screamed "purge them all" the space wolves reckongized and accepted their common ancestory
The 13th company were Wulfen before they chased the Sons into the warp, on top of that one of the Wolves' current Wolf Lords is a Wulfen himself, Bran Redmaw the Curs'd Lord. Still, not all Space Wolves actually accepted their return.
Amusing that Harold Deathwolf was the one to reject the hairy sodds considering his moniker is Lord of Wolfkin.
Yes okay, still. They were already Space Wolves, they had/have the canis helix like every other SW.
I think we have gone a bit off topic. The thread is about how you would incorporate let's say for example a squad of Primaris Hellblaster into the SW ranks. I can't figure out how it would be possible w/o dropping the rank of Hellblaster and start as a Blood Claw.
But then they wouldn't be Hellblasters anymore.
My point was that the Wolves' reaction to the Primaris Marines will be mixed, same as their reaction to just about everything, they'll argue long and hard then something will demand their attention and they'll forget the argument. The Primaris Marines will join them in the situation and the Wolves will act as if they've always been part of the chapter.
The Space Wolves already have a Blood Claw with skills beyond most Wolf Guard, they have no issue forcing units and individuals to start in the Blood Claws and earn their way out.
Ye i get all that.
But to become a Space Wolf you need, like you say, start as a blood claw and earn your way out.
The problem I have is how I'm gonna incorporate these new ranks of marines into my SW Chapter. Guilliman is sending not just fresh marines but marines with the ranks of Intercessors, Inceptors, Hellblasters for example to reinforce the SW. I don't see Space Wolves just accepting those new ranks just because Guilliman say "here you go, these are your new toys". They will have to start as BCs, hence rendering the new ranks irrelevant to the Space Wolves and in my eyes impossible to incorporate in the chapter.
Or am I over thinking it?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ravingbantha wrote: the leaks for 8th edition Space Wolves did not include Primaris Marines on the list. Blood Angels and Dark Angles had them on the list, but not Space Wolves.
They do. All the Primaris marines are listed in the Space Wolves Chapter in the Index: Imperial 1.
Galas wrote: If Space Wolves accept Wulfen, they are gonna accept Primaris Marines.
Wasnt Wulfen the long lost 13th great company? In other words already Space Wolves.
sure but they where massivly mutated etc. which is seen as a bad thing. almost any other chapter would have been horrified and screamed "purge them all" the space wolves reckongized and accepted their common ancestory
The 13th company were Wulfen before they chased the Sons into the warp, on top of that one of the Wolves' current Wolf Lords is a Wulfen himself, Bran Redmaw the Curs'd Lord. Still, not all Space Wolves actually accepted their return.
Amusing that Harold Deathwolf was the one to reject the hairy sodds considering his moniker is Lord of Wolfkin.
Yes okay, still. They were already Space Wolves, they had/have the canis helix like every other SW.
I think we have gone a bit off topic. The thread is about how you would incorporate let's say for example a squad of Primaris Hellblaster into the SW ranks. I can't figure out how it would be possible w/o dropping the rank of Hellblaster and start as a Blood Claw.
But then they wouldn't be Hellblasters anymore.
My point was that the Wolves' reaction to the Primaris Marines will be mixed, same as their reaction to just about everything, they'll argue long and hard then something will demand their attention and they'll forget the argument. The Primaris Marines will join them in the situation and the Wolves will act as if they've always been part of the chapter.
The Space Wolves already have a Blood Claw with skills beyond most Wolf Guard, they have no issue forcing units and individuals to start in the Blood Claws and earn their way out.
Ye i get all that.
But to become a Space Wolf you need, like you say, start as a blood claw and earn your way out.
The problem I have is how I'm gonna incorporate these new ranks of marines into my SW Chapter. Guilliman is sending not just fresh marines but marines with the ranks of Intercessors, Inceptors, Hellblasters for example to reinforce the SW. I don't see Space Wolves just accepting those new ranks just because Guilliman say "here you go, these are your new toys". They will have to start as BCs, hence rendering the new ranks irrelevant to the Space Wolves and in my eyes impossible to incorporate in the chapter.
Or am I over thinking it?
Not really, the whole point of any Warhammer game is to overthink it - AKA Forge the Narritive. Consider each battle to be amongst their first with the Space Wolves. The Wolves still haven't decided what to do with them or even if they truly accept them and the Primaris Marines are still trying to prove their worth.
hobojebus wrote: Even if they have the right gene seed they still won't be fenrisians and we know how the wolf brothers turned out.
Am I reading this new background differently? Everyone seems to be thinking that the Primaris Marines were all created by Cawl and Guilliman then sent, trained and equipped, out to the various Chapters. To me, it looks like the earliest Primaris were indeed created centrally, but then the new gene seed and techniques were distributed to the Chapters to begin enhancing their existing brethren and recruiting new initiates using the Primaris process. The Space Wolves' New Primaris gene seed contains their unique traits, and some or all Fenrisians recruited by the Space Wolves are implanted with the Primaris geneseed. Of course, after Magnus' efforts, the Wolves have other issues with recruitment, but that's a different story.
Game-wise, you're going to be stuck using the same Primaris squads as everyone else, but I bet the 8th edition Codex Space Wolves will have their own unique Primaris units.
or at the very least space wolves will be revealed to have renamed the squad types to be I dunnmo, timber wolf packs, dire wolf packs, air wolf packs.
hobojebus wrote: Even if they have the right gene seed they still won't be fenrisians and we know how the wolf brothers turned out.
Am I reading this new background differently? Everyone seems to be thinking that the Primaris Marines were all created by Cawl and Guilliman then sent, trained and equipped, out to the various Chapters. To me, it looks like the earliest Primaris were indeed created centrally, but then the new gene seed and techniques were distributed to the Chapters to begin enhancing their existing brethren and recruiting new initiates using the Primaris process. The Space Wolves' New Primaris gene seed contains their unique traits, and some or all Fenrisians recruited by the Space Wolves are implanted with the Primaris geneseed. Of course, after Magnus' efforts, the Wolves have other issues with recruitment, but that's a different story.
Game-wise, you're going to be stuck using the same Primaris squads as everyone else, but I bet the 8th edition Codex Space Wolves will have their own unique Primaris units.
or at the very least space wolves will be revealed to have renamed the squad types to be I dunnmo, timber wolf packs, dire wolf packs, air wolf packs.
You just ruined my mood.
I'd rather they be called Claws or Fangs - Hell, I'd rather they be called "Dirty Arses" than another "Wolf" unit.
hobojebus wrote: Even if they have the right gene seed they still won't be fenrisians and we know how the wolf brothers turned out.
Am I reading this new background differently? Everyone seems to be thinking that the Primaris Marines were all created by Cawl and Guilliman then sent, trained and equipped, out to the various Chapters. To me, it looks like the earliest Primaris were indeed created centrally, but then the new gene seed and techniques were distributed to the Chapters to begin enhancing their existing brethren and recruiting new initiates using the Primaris process. The Space Wolves' New Primaris gene seed contains their unique traits, and some or all Fenrisians recruited by the Space Wolves are implanted with the Primaris geneseed. Of course, after Magnus' efforts, the Wolves have other issues with recruitment, but that's a different story.
Game-wise, you're going to be stuck using the same Primaris squads as everyone else, but I bet the 8th edition Codex Space Wolves will have their own unique Primaris units.
or at the very least space wolves will be revealed to have renamed the squad types to be I dunnmo, timber wolf packs, dire wolf packs, air wolf packs.
Even if they rename the ranks, due to the strict SW rank hierarchy it will take a long time before any of the primaris marines will reach them i guess.
Galas wrote: If Space Wolves accept Wulfen, they are gonna accept Primaris Marines.
Wasnt Wulfen the long lost 13th great company? In other words already Space Wolves.
sure but they where massivly mutated etc. which is seen as a bad thing. almost any other chapter would have been horrified and screamed "purge them all" the space wolves reckongized and accepted their common ancestory
The 13th company were Wulfen before they chased the Sons into the warp, on top of that one of the Wolves' current Wolf Lords is a Wulfen himself, Bran Redmaw the Curs'd Lord. Still, not all Space Wolves actually accepted their return.
Amusing that Harold Deathwolf was the one to reject the hairy sodds considering his moniker is Lord of Wolfkin.
Yes okay, still. They were already Space Wolves, they had/have the canis helix like every other SW.
I think we have gone a bit off topic. The thread is about how you would incorporate let's say for example a squad of Primaris Hellblaster into the SW ranks. I can't figure out how it would be possible w/o dropping the rank of Hellblaster and start as a Blood Claw.
But then they wouldn't be Hellblasters anymore.
My point was that the Wolves' reaction to the Primaris Marines will be mixed, same as their reaction to just about everything, they'll argue long and hard then something will demand their attention and they'll forget the argument. The Primaris Marines will join them in the situation and the Wolves will act as if they've always been part of the chapter.
The Space Wolves already have a Blood Claw with skills beyond most Wolf Guard, they have no issue forcing units and individuals to start in the Blood Claws and earn their way out.
Ye i get all that.
But to become a Space Wolf you need, like you say, start as a blood claw and earn your way out.
The problem I have is how I'm gonna incorporate these new ranks of marines into my SW Chapter. Guilliman is sending not just fresh marines but marines with the ranks of Intercessors, Inceptors, Hellblasters for example to reinforce the SW. I don't see Space Wolves just accepting those new ranks just because Guilliman say "here you go, these are your new toys". They will have to start as BCs, hence rendering the new ranks irrelevant to the Space Wolves and in my eyes impossible to incorporate in the chapter.
Or am I over thinking it?
Not really, the whole point of any Warhammer game is to overthink it - AKA Forge the Narritive. Consider each battle to be amongst their first with the Space Wolves. The Wolves still haven't decided what to do with them or even if they truly accept them and the Primaris Marines are still trying to prove their worth.
I guess I will just keep them outside my chapter untill the codex drops.
hobojebus wrote: Even if they have the right gene seed they still won't be fenrisians and we know how the wolf brothers turned out.
Am I reading this new background differently? Everyone seems to be thinking that the Primaris Marines were all created by Cawl and Guilliman then sent, trained and equipped, out to the various Chapters. To me, it looks like the earliest Primaris were indeed created centrally, but then the new gene seed and techniques were distributed to the Chapters to begin enhancing their existing brethren and recruiting new initiates using the Primaris process. The Space Wolves' New Primaris gene seed contains their unique traits, and some or all Fenrisians recruited by the Space Wolves are implanted with the Primaris geneseed. Of course, after Magnus' efforts, the Wolves have other issues with recruitment, but that's a different story.
Game-wise, you're going to be stuck using the same Primaris squads as everyone else, but I bet the 8th edition Codex Space Wolves will have their own unique Primaris units.
or at the very least space wolves will be revealed to have renamed the squad types to be I dunnmo, timber wolf packs, dire wolf packs, air wolf packs.
Even if they rename the ranks, due to the strict SW rank hierarchy it will take a long time before any of the primaris marines will reach them i guess.
not if they create a parallel heirarchy with Primaris Marines.
at the end of the day we won't know until GW gets around to fleshing it out.
BTW we do know primaris Marines have been made with spacewolves geneseed, one gets mentioned in Dark Imperium.
it's also possiable that the space wolves didn't take any of the existing ones, took the tech and folded the tech in. and now all wolf guard are Primaris. and only wolf guard can be.
Well I'd of thought it'd be a personal choice each pack deciding amongst themselves if they want upgrading, don't see long fangs choosing to do it though too long in the tooth to be arsed with that kind of thing.
From squinting at the unboxing video, the Space Wolves unit markings for Primaris Marines have the red-on-yellow Blood Claws markings labelled "Close Support", the black-on-white Long Fang markings as "Fire Support" and the black-on-yellow Wolf Guard markings as "Veteran". I couldn't see what the red-on-black Grey Hunter markings were labelled as.
Before you get all agitated (too late ... ), this is a single image on a page of colour schemes; the full background will no doubt name them more appropriately.
AndrewGPaul wrote: From squinting at the unboxing video, the Space Wolves unit markings for Primaris Marines have the red-on-yellow Blood Claws markings labelled "Close Support", the black-on-white Long Fang markings as "Fire Support" and the black-on-yellow Wolf Guard markings as "Veteran". I couldn't see what the red-on-black Grey Hunter markings were labelled as.
Before you get all agitated (too late ... ), this is a single image on a page of colour schemes; the full background will no doubt name them more appropriately.
Ye, I did see that and I feel its bs to just use already existing pack markings for new ranks. I think that the primaris marines will be in a separate company(maybe the 14th company?) if they are to be included in the Space Wolves chapter. Heard at a Q/A they said "some chapters will welcome the primaris marines into their ranks, some won't. Some will create entirely new companies for the primaris marines." And if that's the case I think it's super lazy of GW to do it that way.
But we'll have to wait and see.
Edit: The black on red(Grey Hunter) pack marking for the primaris marines say Battle line.
AndrewGPaul wrote: From squinting at the unboxing video, the Space Wolves unit markings for Primaris Marines have the red-on-yellow Blood Claws markings labelled "Close Support", the black-on-white Long Fang markings as "Fire Support" and the black-on-yellow Wolf Guard markings as "Veteran". I couldn't see what the red-on-black Grey Hunter markings were labelled as.
Before you get all agitated (too late ... ), this is a single image on a page of colour schemes; the full background will no doubt name them more appropriately.
Ye, I did see that and I feel its bs to just use already existing pack markings for new ranks. I think that the primaris marines will be in a separate company(maybe the 14th company?) if they are to be included in the Space Wolves chapter. Heard at a Q/A they said "some chapters will welcome the primaris marines into their ranks, some won't. Some will create entirely new companies for the primaris marines." And if that's the case I think it's super lazy of GW to do it that way.
But we'll have to wait and see.
Edit: The black on red(Grey Hunter) pack marking for the primaris marines say Battle line.
Personally I've been modding Blood Angels and Dark Angels shoulder pads, getting me some winged claws, winged wolf skulls and blood drops with viking runes.
The claws are the worst.
jhe90 wrote: Likely a separate command structure. The primus under own captains and Lt.
However if they wanted a space wolf rank. Then everyone even the captain is a blood claw till you earn your ranks.
No cross promotion. You learn to be a propper space wolf the old way. The Russ way.
Damn right you want food you go hunt a six legged stag with antlers 12 feet across using your bare hands, every meal must be accompanied by three times your weight in ale, each loaf must be lathered in a stick of butter and wrapped around a whole chicken.
To train you must go fishing for kraken with nought but a wooden spear and yourself as bait, to exercise there are several options like running alongside thunder wolves as they hunt, controlling the local troll populations or descending into the depths to cull night kin.
Gun drills are fine for weaker chapters but the vlka frenryka only accept heroes worthy of the sagas.
jhe90 wrote: Likely a separate command structure. The primus under own captains and Lt.
However if they wanted a space wolf rank. Then everyone even the captain is a blood claw till you earn your ranks.
No cross promotion. You learn to be a propper space wolf the old way. The Russ way.
Damn right you want food you go hunt a six legged stag with antlers 12 feet across using your bare hands, every meal must be accompanied by three times your weight in ale, each loaf must be lathered in a stick of butter and wrapped around a whole chicken.
To train you must go fishing for kraken with nought but a wooden spear and yourself as bait, to exercise there are several options like running alongside thunder wolves as they hunt, controlling the local troll populations or descending into the depths to cull night kin.
Gun drills are fine for weaker chapters but the vlka frenryka only accept heroes worthy of the sagas.
You gotta remember, if you don't open with over the top boasts nobody is going to listen to you.
Mleander wrote: Does anyone have any more info on this new Wolfspear Chapter?
A LITTLE it's not much though, I'll give what I can.
The Wolf Spear are a new chapter made up of the remains of the Primaris Space Wolves from the Grey Shields, based on Raukos (the world where Gulliman ended the Indomatus Crusade) their job is to Guard "The Pit" which is, as I understand it a part of the great rift. Raukos is one of several guard station worlds that the Imperium is eistablishing along it until they can figure out how to close the bloody thing.
Makes me wonder if the Space Wolf chapter has, for the moment rejected Primaris Marines. or at least the ones they've not created themselves.
Mleander wrote: Does anyone have any more info on this new Wolfspear Chapter?
A LITTLE it's not much though, I'll give what I can.
The Wolf Spear are a new chapter made up of the remains of the Primaris Space Wolves from the Grey Shields, based on Raukos (the world where Gulliman ended the Indomatus Crusade) their job is to Guard "The Pit" which is, as I understand it a part of the great rift. Raukos is one of several guard station worlds that the Imperium is eistablishing along it until they can figure out how to close the bloody thing.
Makes me wonder if the Space Wolf chapter has, for the moment rejected Primaris Marines. or at least the ones they've not created themselves.
I remember reading Sanguinius wasn't overly fond of the first Terran Blood Angels, maybe Russ held similar views.
One thing I know is Russ wanted Space Wolves' successors encircling the Eye of Terror, this might not be a rejection so much as a beginning to that desire, then again it could be both.
Grimnar has led the Space Wolves for centuries and is a smart cookie. He won't reject the Primaris Marines out of hand and certainly not once he has fought alongside them in battle.
The question isn't whether they will be accepted but how they will be integrated. Since we don't have a definitive answer yet, that means players are free to choose how they use their models.
Mleander wrote: Does anyone have any more info on this new Wolfspear Chapter?
A LITTLE it's not much though, I'll give what I can.
The Wolf Spear are a new chapter made up of the remains of the Primaris Space Wolves from the Grey Shields, based on Raukos (the world where Gulliman ended the Indomatus Crusade) their job is to Guard "The Pit" which is, as I understand it a part of the great rift. Raukos is one of several guard station worlds that the Imperium is eistablishing along it until they can figure out how to close the bloody thing.
Makes me wonder if the Space Wolf chapter has, for the moment rejected Primaris Marines. or at least the ones they've not created themselves.
I remember reading Sanguinius wasn't overly fond of the first Terran Blood Angels, maybe Russ held similar views.
One thing I know is Russ wanted Space Wolves' successors encircling the Eye of Terror, this might not be a rejection so much as a beginning to that desire, then again it could be both.
it could simply be something as simple as the space wolves couldn't handle the sheer number of Space Wolf Primaris Marines produced. given they;re limited to only 1 chapter right now if Gulliman had produced say a modest 2000 Primaris Space Wolves that'd be WAAAY more then the space wolves could take in without impacting their chapter
Mleander wrote: Does anyone have any more info on this new Wolfspear Chapter?
A LITTLE it's not much though, I'll give what I can.
The Wolf Spear are a new chapter made up of the remains of the Primaris Space Wolves from the Grey Shields, based on Raukos (the world where Gulliman ended the Indomatus Crusade) their job is to Guard "The Pit" which is, as I understand it a part of the great rift. Raukos is one of several guard station worlds that the Imperium is eistablishing along it until they can figure out how to close the bloody thing.
Makes me wonder if the Space Wolf chapter has, for the moment rejected Primaris Marines. or at least the ones they've not created themselves.
I remember reading Sanguinius wasn't overly fond of the first Terran Blood Angels, maybe Russ held similar views.
One thing I know is Russ wanted Space Wolves' successors encircling the Eye of Terror, this might not be a rejection so much as a beginning to that desire, then again it could be both.
it could simply be something as simple as the space wolves couldn't handle the sheer number of Space Wolf Primaris Marines produced. given they;re limited to only 1 chapter right now if Gulliman had produced say a modest 2000 Primaris Space Wolves that'd be WAAAY more then the space wolves could take in without impacting their chapter
You jest right? The Space Wolves have the capacity to have a solid ten thousand Marines, currently they'd be lucky to have six hundred including the Wulfen.
More likely Guiliman negotiated 2000 Primaris Marines for some Codex compliance.
Mleander wrote: Does anyone have any more info on this new Wolfspear Chapter?
A LITTLE it's not much though, I'll give what I can.
The Wolf Spear are a new chapter made up of the remains of the Primaris Space Wolves from the Grey Shields, based on Raukos (the world where Gulliman ended the Indomatus Crusade) their job is to Guard "The Pit" which is, as I understand it a part of the great rift. Raukos is one of several guard station worlds that the Imperium is eistablishing along it until they can figure out how to close the bloody thing.
Makes me wonder if the Space Wolf chapter has, for the moment rejected Primaris Marines. or at least the ones they've not created themselves.
I remember reading Sanguinius wasn't overly fond of the first Terran Blood Angels, maybe Russ held similar views.
One thing I know is Russ wanted Space Wolves' successors encircling the Eye of Terror, this might not be a rejection so much as a beginning to that desire, then again it could be both.
No Russ took his new legion into orc territory and over five years killed every last green skin and emerged with a fully unified force, wolves respect their elders they would of welcomed the experience of the terrans.
Mleander wrote: Does anyone have any more info on this new Wolfspear Chapter?
A LITTLE it's not much though, I'll give what I can.
The Wolf Spear are a new chapter made up of the remains of the Primaris Space Wolves from the Grey Shields, based on Raukos (the world where Gulliman ended the Indomatus Crusade) their job is to Guard "The Pit" which is, as I understand it a part of the great rift. Raukos is one of several guard station worlds that the Imperium is eistablishing along it until they can figure out how to close the bloody thing.
Makes me wonder if the Space Wolf chapter has, for the moment rejected Primaris Marines. or at least the ones they've not created themselves.
I remember reading Sanguinius wasn't overly fond of the first Terran Blood Angels, maybe Russ held similar views.
One thing I know is Russ wanted Space Wolves' successors encircling the Eye of Terror, this might not be a rejection so much as a beginning to that desire, then again it could be both.
No Russ took his new legion into orc territory and over five years killed every last green skin and emerged with a fully unified force, wolves respect their elders they would of welcomed the experience of the terrans.
Galas wrote: If Space Wolves accept Wulfen, they are gonna accept Primaris Marines.
Wulfen were wolves before they changed they share the same gene father and heritage, even separated by 10 millennium they are still one and the same.
These new guys are not fenrisians so far as we know, they don't share their experience fighting trolls, kraken and wyrms on the ice Fields so they can't ever be true wolves.
I don't think they were wolves, But marines with the curse of the Wulfen.
From warhammer40k.wiki
"The Wulfen are Space Marines of the Space Wolves Chapter who have succumbed to the Curse of the Wulfen and transformed into savage, malformed lupine mutants. Within every Space Wolf's gene-seed is the specific genetic sequence known as the Canis Helix which invests the Space Wolves with the acute predatory senses of the Fenrisian Wolves native to their homeworld of Fenris. When Aspirants undergo the beginning of the physical changes that will transform them into superhuman Astartes during the brutal trial known as The Blooding, not every candidate is able to overcome the feral Curse that the activation of the Canis Helix unleashes within them, and they suffer the horrible fate of transforming into one of these fell creatures."
"Wolves" there is shorthand for Space Wolves. He didn't literally mean wolves. I hope.
Galas wrote: If Space Wolves accept Wulfen, they are gonna accept Primaris Marines.
Wulfen were wolves before they changed they share the same gene father and heritage, even separated by 10 millennium they are still one and the same.
These new guys are not fenrisians so far as we know, they don't share their experience fighting trolls, kraken and wyrms on the ice Fields so they can't ever be true wolves.
I don't think they were wolves, But marines with the curse of the Wulfen.
From warhammer40k.wiki
"The Wulfen are Space Marines of the Space Wolves Chapter who have succumbed to the Curse of the Wulfen and transformed into savage, malformed lupine mutants. Within every Space Wolf's gene-seed is the specific genetic sequence known as the Canis Helix which invests the Space Wolves with the acute predatory senses of the Fenrisian Wolves native to their homeworld of Fenris. When Aspirants undergo the beginning of the physical changes that will transform them into superhuman Astartes during the brutal trial known as The Blooding, not every candidate is able to overcome the feral Curse that the activation of the Canis Helix unleashes within them, and they suffer the horrible fate of transforming into one of these fell creatures."
"Wolves" there is shorthand for Space Wolves. He didn't literally mean wolves. I hope.
Mleander wrote: Does anyone have any more info on this new Wolfspear Chapter?
A LITTLE it's not much though, I'll give what I can.
The Wolf Spear are a new chapter made up of the remains of the Primaris Space Wolves from the Grey Shields, based on Raukos (the world where Gulliman ended the Indomatus Crusade) their job is to Guard "The Pit" which is, as I understand it a part of the great rift. Raukos is one of several guard station worlds that the Imperium is eistablishing along it until they can figure out how to close the bloody thing.
Makes me wonder if the Space Wolf chapter has, for the moment rejected Primaris Marines. or at least the ones they've not created themselves.
I remember reading Sanguinius wasn't overly fond of the first Terran Blood Angels, maybe Russ held similar views.
One thing I know is Russ wanted Space Wolves' successors encircling the Eye of Terror, this might not be a rejection so much as a beginning to that desire, then again it could be both.
it could simply be something as simple as the space wolves couldn't handle the sheer number of Space Wolf Primaris Marines produced. given they;re limited to only 1 chapter right now if Gulliman had produced say a modest 2000 Primaris Space Wolves that'd be WAAAY more then the space wolves could take in without impacting their chapter
You jest right? The Space Wolves have the capacity to have a solid ten thousand Marines, currently they'd be lucky to have six hundred including the Wulfen.
More likely Guiliman negotiated 2000 Primaris Marines for some Codex compliance.
I don't jest at all. you'll notice I said "impact their chapter" not "break the codex" it's an assimilation thing, take in too many Primaris Marines and it could swamp the chapter, impacting the chatper's culture.
Mleander wrote: Does anyone have any more info on this new Wolfspear Chapter?
A LITTLE it's not much though, I'll give what I can.
The Wolf Spear are a new chapter made up of the remains of the Primaris Space Wolves from the Grey Shields, based on Raukos (the world where Gulliman ended the Indomatus Crusade) their job is to Guard "The Pit" which is, as I understand it a part of the great rift. Raukos is one of several guard station worlds that the Imperium is eistablishing along it until they can figure out how to close the bloody thing.
Makes me wonder if the Space Wolf chapter has, for the moment rejected Primaris Marines. or at least the ones they've not created themselves.
I remember reading Sanguinius wasn't overly fond of the first Terran Blood Angels, maybe Russ held similar views.
One thing I know is Russ wanted Space Wolves' successors encircling the Eye of Terror, this might not be a rejection so much as a beginning to that desire, then again it could be both.
it could simply be something as simple as the space wolves couldn't handle the sheer number of Space Wolf Primaris Marines produced. given they;re limited to only 1 chapter right now if Gulliman had produced say a modest 2000 Primaris Space Wolves that'd be WAAAY more then the space wolves could take in without impacting their chapter
You jest right? The Space Wolves have the capacity to have a solid ten thousand Marines, currently they'd be lucky to have six hundred including the Wulfen.
More likely Guiliman negotiated 2000 Primaris Marines for some Codex compliance.
I don't jest at all. you'll notice I said "impact their chapter" not "break the codex" it's an assimilation thing, take in too many Primaris Marines and it could swamp the chapter, impacting the chatper's culture.
Ahh, my bad - I thought you meant the Fang couldn't host that many Marines.
Galas wrote: If Space Wolves accept Wulfen, they are gonna accept Primaris Marines.
Wasnt Wulfen the long lost 13th great company? In other words already Space Wolves.
sure but they where massivly mutated etc. which is seen as a abd thing. almost any other chapter would have been horrified and screamed "purge them all" the space wolves reckongized and accepted their common ancestory
True. Maybe one could justify the Primaris marines as the 14th Company or maybe just The/1st Reinforcement Company?
dont muse about such, the 12 companies represent sw heritage. the 13th represents the fallen sw, the ones who continued their pursuit of chaos into the warpway. Primaris are as welcome to fight along side us as any of our rivals are, however they are not true sw until they have bled our enemies with us and once this has been done much like during the founding they will be accepted as sw. I would be open to an intensified ritual to initiate them though. For Russ and the Allfather!
Sales > lore to GW. GW wants to push a new line of SM, making all SM players eventually replace their old collection for huge profits.
Wulfen are accepted by SW since they are normal marines mutated by the canix helix. The geneseed is absolutely vital to SW identity. That is why primaris cannot replace SW marines, unless current SW lore is discarded.
What i think we will see is new lore for SW being that SW primaris marines will somehow have the canix helix, so that primaris can ultimately also replace the old SM, without a loss of what makes SWSW. I think we will see unique SW primaris units together with the release of the codex, which is why the SW codex is last in line.
Automatically Appended Next Post: ... and since old marines can supposedly be “upgraded” to primaris (talk about deus ex machina), charcters and wolf guard might simply be upgraded as a step up in hierachy. As a badge of honour.
Northern85Star wrote: Sales > lore to GW. GW wants to push a new line of SM, making all SM players eventually replace their old collection for huge profits.
Wulfen are accepted by SW since they are normal marines mutated by the canix helix. The geneseed is absolutely vital to SW identity. That is why primaris cannot replace SW marines, unless current SW lore is discarded.
What i think we will see is new lore for SW being that SW primaris marines will somehow have the canix helix, so that primaris can ultimately also replace the old SM, without a loss of what makes SWSW. I think we will see unique SW primaris units together with the release of the codex, which is why the SW codex is last in line.
Automatically Appended Next Post: ... and since old marines can supposedly be “upgraded” to primaris (talk about deus ex machina), charcters and wolf guard might simply be upgraded as a step up in hierachy. As a badge of honour.
.. why wouldn't Primaris Marines have the Canis Helix? Te Lore suggests that the Primaris Marines are CLOSER to their primarch (geneticly speaking)0 then old marines
Northern85Star wrote: Sales > lore to GW. GW wants to push a new line of SM, making all SM players eventually replace their old collection for huge profits.
Wulfen are accepted by SW since they are normal marines mutated by the canix helix. The geneseed is absolutely vital to SW identity. That is why primaris cannot replace SW marines, unless current SW lore is discarded.
What i think we will see is new lore for SW being that SW primaris marines will somehow have the canix helix, so that primaris can ultimately also replace the old SM, without a loss of what makes SWSW. I think we will see unique SW primaris units together with the release of the codex, which is why the SW codex is last in line.
Automatically Appended Next Post: ... and since old marines can supposedly be “upgraded” to primaris (talk about deus ex machina), charcters and wolf guard might simply be upgraded as a step up in hierachy. As a badge of honour.
.. why wouldn't Primaris Marines have the Canis Helix? Te Lore suggests that the Primaris Marines are CLOSER to their primarch (geneticly speaking)0 then old marines
Cawl fekked around with it to make it more stable, but given he's not the allfather who's to say his meddling hasn't made things worse.
Book clearly suggests grimnar is worried about that, I would imagine they'll be used as cannon fodder until real fenrisians can be elevated to sky warrior status and then their threads so will be cut.
Why are people still behaving like the Primaris are brand new? It has been over a century since Gathering Storm, and chapters have had the tech to make their own Primaris Marines for a century. At this point all marines who are about hundred years old or younger are Primaris. There has been plenty of time for the first Primaris marines to make into the higher ranks.
If the Wolves retain their old training practices, one could imagine that the new recruits first become some sort of assault type marines, so 'Blood Claws' are probably Reivers, while more experienced marines will become 'Grey Hunter' Intercessors. Hellblasters are the Long Fang equivalent. I am not to sure about Inceptors and Aggressors.
pm713 wrote: The Chapters could also not make everyone new into Primaris and stick with what they had before with a few Primaris hanging around.
Sure, if they want to be stupid (which in 40K is of course perfectly possible.) But it makes no sense to keep producing the inferior model when the upgrade is available.
If the Wolves retain their old training practices, one could imagine that the new recruits first become some sort of assault type marines, so 'Blood Claws' are probably Reivers, while more experienced marines will become 'Grey Hunter' Intercessors. Hellblasters are the Long Fang equivalent. I am not to sure about Inceptors and Aggressors.
I will now be calling SW Primaris marines Blood Reivers, Huntercessors, and Fangblasters, respectively! Inceptors could be a Skyclaw equivalent, so maybe Skyceptors or Clawceptors for them? Closest non Primaris equivalent to an Aggressor is a Terminator in my opinion, so would be Wolf Guard associated. Perhaps Wolfgressors or Agguard?
pm713 wrote: The Chapters could also not make everyone new into Primaris and stick with what they had before with a few Primaris hanging around.
Sure, if they want to be stupid (which in 40K is of course perfectly possible.) But it makes no sense to keep producing the inferior model when the upgrade is available.
Alternatively they could just be suspicious of them and want more trusted soldiers.
Alternatively they could just be suspicious of them and want more trusted soldiers.
But they would be recruiting and training the Primaris themselves, just like they'd recruit and thrain the non-primartis aspirants. Why would the Primaris be any less trustworthy than the non-primaris? I understand if some chapters would not want Cawl's Mars-trained creations, but once they get the tech to recruit the Primaris themselves, I really don't see much of an issue.
Alternatively they could just be suspicious of them and want more trusted soldiers.
But they would be recruiting and training the Primaris themselves, just like they'd recruit and thrain the non-primartis aspirants. Why would the Primaris be any less trustworthy than the non-primaris? I understand if some chapters would not want Cawl's Mars-trained creations, but once they get the tech to recruit the Primaris themselves, I really don't see much of an issue.
Because they're different to the norm. The Imperiums incredibly superstitious plus some things are genuinely tainted from the start. Cawl could easily be one of those considering his appearance.
Crimson wrote: Why are people still behaving like the Primaris are brand new? It has been over a century since Gathering Storm, and chapters have had the tech to make their own Primaris Marines for a century. At this point all marines who are about hundred years old or younger are Primaris. There has been plenty of time for the first Primaris marines to make into the higher ranks.
If the Wolves retain their old training practices, one could imagine that the new recruits first become some sort of assault type marines, so 'Blood Claws' are probably Reivers, while more experienced marines will become 'Grey Hunter' Intercessors. Hellblasters are the Long Fang equivalent. I am not to sure about Inceptors and Aggressors.
Exactly. It may be a recent change to all of us, but Primaris were gifted to the chapters a century ago along with the knowledge of how to alter the creation process to create new marines. Each chapter already has numerous Primaris veterans and heroes and I'm sure a century is enough time for even the most stubborn old wolf to accept them.
hobojebus wrote: They didn't all get numarines at the same time though for some it's still recent.
I can only tell you what's in the book which is cannon, the wolves don't trust them or the changes made to the gene seed.
And when they go to Prospero there are no numarines even though they are taking wounded wolves not yet healed from their last campaign.
which might just imply the NuMarines are all still in the field. it's not a lack of trust. the doubts about the Primaris Marines are hardly a "WE DON'T TRUST THEM AT ALL" it's more "these guys are even more removed from humanity then normal marines, I hope it doesn't lead to some chapters becoming problematic" There's certainly no suggestion the space wolves are just going to throw them away. although it seems likely to me they'll adopt primaris Marines slowly. with geneseed being the way it is it may be more efficant for some chapters to keep producing standard marines for some time to come. And it means if primaris marines DO turn out to have a flaw they're not completely fethed. But don't confuse doubts with outright hatred
Even if a chapter has the ability to create new Primaris marines, they still require different armour, weapons, equipment and even vehicles from those the chapter has been using for millennia. If a chapter can't get enough suits of Mk.X armour to equip all its new recruits, for example, then it makes sense to keep making some non-Primaris marines and keep using their existing stockpile of older power armour.
Cawl fekked around with it to make it more stable, but given he's not the allfather who's to say his meddling hasn't made things worse.
Book clearly suggests grimnar is worried about that, I would imagine they'll be used as cannon fodder until real fenrisians can be elevated to sky warrior status and then their threads so will be cut.
Indeed, Cawl is extraordinarily arrogant. Just because he believes he has done what he set out to do does not make it so.
‘What of those gene-lines with more deeply ingrained flaws?’ asked Guilliman. ‘The Blood Angels and the Space Wolves?’
Cawl’s research, and his own reading, had uncovered dangerous faults that the sons of both gene-lines in question had done their best to hide.
‘The corrected flaws in the new gene-stocks show no signs of regression to previous unstable states, whether in successor Chapters composed entirely of the new Primaris Space Marine type, or in already established Chapters. Elimination entirely of the more idiosyncratic traits of some gene-lines is, however, not to be recommended. They form part of the Emperor’s original vision, and are, in any case, crucial to their proper function. The improved gene-seed of Ninth and Sixth Legion stock is operating within acceptable parameters.
However the fluff in the Blood Angels codex has a contingent of Primaris Marines losing their cool during a battle with the Alpha Legion and going all-out psycho on them. Whether this was just an extreme version of the Red Thirst or some the beginnings of the Black Rage is unknown at this point but Corbulo hurried back to Baal to inform Dante.
Bottom line is that Cawl's tinkering may not be as perfect as he thinks it is. By giving an assessment of the Primaris Marines from Cawl's PoV rather than a 3rd person perspective, they have left the door open to future problems or to old ones like the Black rage and Wulfen curse resurfacing.
The Space Wolves have had stories about Wolf Priests coming close to untying the Canis Helix, would any of them suggest sending the Primaris Marines they actually recieved out to see if Terran Space Wolves can find new populations that they aren't bound to the way the Space Wolves are leashed to Fenris?
Mleander wrote: I'm relatively new to the 40k universe and my question is very fluff related.
I've started collecting Space Wolves since I like the look of them and the lore I've read so far.
The question I have is how will the SW react to the reinforcements of the Primaris marines?
How will they fit into their packs? As far as I understand, every SW must start their career as a Blood Claw then earn the ranks of Grey Hunter, Long Fang, Scout and so on.
For example. According to the Dark Imperium box, a Primaris Intercessor marine has the same type of pack markings(a black mark over a red field) as a Grey Hunter, a seasoned warrior.
I have a hard time seeing the Grey Hunters or any other SW accepting that these fresh out of the pod marines will have any other rank in their packs other than Blood Claw(if they are even accepted as SW).
I pre-ordered a Dark Imperium box since I think the box itself and all the models look awesome. I'm thinking of painting the Primaris marines as their own "reinforcement chapter" and not accepting them into my SW packs.
I'm asking the more seasoned SW commanders here, what are your thoughts on this? How will you handle these new marines?
I use Primaris as true scale marines, converted all the models I need.
Dakka Wolf wrote: The Space Wolves have had stories about Wolf Priests coming close to untying the Canis Helix, would any of them suggest sending the Primaris Marines they actually recieved out to see if Terran Space Wolves can find new populations that they aren't bound to the way the Space Wolves are leashed to Fenris?
That was 9000 years ago none have tried since and only Bjorn still lives from that time.
This is Emperor level tech. It can definitely be made to work. All chapters must Gene Tithe, so the IoM has a copy of the Canis Helix on file. I think the real issue is would the SWs accept them. Unless Bobby G bent over backwards diplomatically to make it happen I doubt. I could see it one way. Big Bobby shows up with a couple hundred genetically certified Space wolves and says take them or orphan them. Cutting them loose without wolf priest training to deal with the curse of the wulfen would be like driving your illegitimate sons from your house into the snow. Which is also a very Fenrisian thing to do. So...id say it's more likely they would take them than not, but by slim margins. And I'd say yeah, The Great Wolf would definitively bust them down to blood claws.
Primaris, "I'm a lieutenant. Uncle Bobby said it was ok"
Logan Grimnar, "Gimme her fancy crap. That stuff goes to Grey hunter that's proved himself. You get a bolt pistol and a jump pack. If you really are bad @$$ you'll get your shiny toys back when Padre Ulric says so."
I think they could easily spin it so that at first (since this was a while ago in the current timeline) the little wolves were distrustful of the plus sized "wolves" and sent them on a series of difficult to impossible missions that they managed to survive through due to their enemies not having any weapons with 2 damage.
The primaris marines that survived this initiation process were slowly included by the other wolves, and as the older wolves started going through the primaris process, the lines blurred and everything normalized.
My issue is going to be more with how good they are on the tabletop, since the typical primaris units are about as unwolfy in the way they play as you get.
Dakka Wolf wrote: The Space Wolves have had stories about Wolf Priests coming close to untying the Canis Helix, would any of them suggest sending the Primaris Marines they actually recieved out to see if Terran Space Wolves can find new populations that they aren't bound to the way the Space Wolves are leashed to Fenris?
That was 9000 years ago none have tried since and only Bjorn still lives from that time.
There's also the bigger issue of all the equipment got smashed up, there isn't any more and Bjorn was against the idea. Know who'll argue with Bjorn? Nobody because he's a giant Dreadnought.
Crimson wrote: Why are people still behaving like the Primaris are brand new? It has been over a century since Gathering Storm, and chapters have had the tech to make their own Primaris Marines for a century. At this point all marines who are about hundred years old or younger are Primaris. There has been plenty of time for the first Primaris marines to make into the higher ranks.
If the Wolves retain their old training practices, one could imagine that the new recruits first become some sort of assault type marines, so 'Blood Claws' are probably Reivers, while more experienced marines will become 'Grey Hunter' Intercessors. Hellblasters are the Long Fang equivalent. I am not to sure about Inceptors and Aggressors.
Here's my take:
Primaris Space Wolves start off at Reivers. They are a Troops choice, have a 4+ BS & WS, and no access to Grave Chutes or Grapnel Launchers.
They then graduate to Primaris Hunters. These are standard Intercessors, so their Troops also, but with a Wolfy twist. For every 10 models in the unit, one may be equipped with a Plasma Incinerator. Also, the squad my be lead by a Primaris Wolf Guard (read that Primaris Aggressor). This will make Primaris Hunters an interesting mixed unit, and the solid core
From there Space Wolf Primaris Marines can "gaduate" to either Heavy Support Primaris Fangs (Hellblasters who only have access to Heavy Plasma Incinerators) or Fast Attack Primaris Claws (Inceptors).
Veteran Space Wolf Primaris marines will be an Elite choice, standard Agresors, and have the option of being Loan Wolves.
I'd like to see another option as an Elites choice, like standard Intercessors with Grav Chutes. Or better yet Infiltrate.
Dakka Wolf wrote: The Space Wolves have had stories about Wolf Priests coming close to untying the Canis Helix, would any of them suggest sending the Primaris Marines they actually recieved out to see if Terran Space Wolves can find new populations that they aren't bound to the way the Space Wolves are leashed to Fenris?
That was 9000 years ago none have tried since and only Bjorn still lives from that time.
There's also the bigger issue of all the equipment got smashed up, there isn't any more and Bjorn was against the idea. Know who'll argue with Bjorn? Nobody because he's a giant Dreadnought.
Bjorn was against stuffing with the Helix itself, Bjorn knows Russ wanted Space Wolves on more worlds than just Fenris.
The kids nowadays apparently can't paint pack markings with 2 colors so GW included lots of pics with mono-colored pads. But BrianDavion is correct, it should be 2 colors. Wulfen are red and white. Scouts I can't really remember, maybe armor color + black.
Sky and Swift Claws are just Blood Claws with gear.
Dakka Wolf wrote: The Space Wolves have had stories about Wolf Priests coming close to untying the Canis Helix, would any of them suggest sending the Primaris Marines they actually recieved out to see if Terran Space Wolves can find new populations that they aren't bound to the way the Space Wolves are leashed to Fenris?
That was 9000 years ago none have tried since and only Bjorn still lives from that time.
There's also the bigger issue of all the equipment got smashed up, there isn't any more and Bjorn was against the idea. Know who'll argue with Bjorn? Nobody because he's a giant Dreadnought.
Bjorn was against stuffing with the Helix itself, Bjorn knows Russ wanted Space Wolves on more worlds than just Fenris.
That's a bit moot seeing as you have to fiddle with the Helix to get the more worlds part.
phydaux wrote: Skyclaws? Or do they count as Bloodclaws?
Skyclaws are blood claws given jump packs so presumably
Does anyone else think it's weird that Grey Hunters shoulder pads are red while Bloodclaws shoulder pads are yellow? Shouldn't Bloodclaws shoulder pads be red?
Would people be pissed if I painted my Bloodclaws with red pads and my Hunters with yellow pads just because I think it makes more sense?
'Cause i'm doing that.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I bought the Space Marines figures out of the Dark Imperium box set. I plan to paint them up as Space Wolves and give them a go the more I'm convinced I will have an utterly uncompetitive army.
I'm making my shopping list now from the classic Marines line to make my REAL Space Wolves army.
phydaux wrote: Skyclaws? Or do they count as Bloodclaws?
Skyclaws are blood claws given jump packs so presumably
Does anyone else think it's weird that Grey Hunters shoulder pads are red while Bloodclaws shoulder pads are yellow? Shouldn't Bloodclaws shoulder pads be red?
Would people be pissed if I painted my Bloodclaws with red pads and my Hunters with yellow pads just because I think it makes more sense?
'Cause i'm doing that.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I bought the Space Marines figures out of the Dark Imperium box set. I plan to paint them up as Space Wolves and give them a go the more I'm convinced I will have an utterly uncompetitive army.
I'm making my shopping list now from the classic Marines line to make my REAL Space Wolves army.
paint the shoulders how you want. the codex says those are just examples. you could do em pink with green polkadots.
just make sure people can tell the diff at a galance
I use the heads to distinguish between units. Blood Claws have bare heads and orange hair, Grey Hunters wear helmets, Wolf Guard go bare headed with grey or brown hear and other units are shown by their weaponry.
Dakka Wolf wrote: The Space Wolves have had stories about Wolf Priests coming close to untying the Canis Helix, would any of them suggest sending the Primaris Marines they actually recieved out to see if Terran Space Wolves can find new populations that they aren't bound to the way the Space Wolves are leashed to Fenris?
That was 9000 years ago none have tried since and only Bjorn still lives from that time.
There's also the bigger issue of all the equipment got smashed up, there isn't any more and Bjorn was against the idea. Know who'll argue with Bjorn? Nobody because he's a giant Dreadnought.
Bjorn was against stuffing with the Helix itself, Bjorn knows Russ wanted Space Wolves on more worlds than just Fenris.
That's a bit moot seeing as you have to fiddle with the Helix to get the more worlds part.
Cawl has already done it.
The Primaris Marines are Space Wolves with no connection to Fenris.
Dakka Wolf wrote: The Space Wolves have had stories about Wolf Priests coming close to untying the Canis Helix, would any of them suggest sending the Primaris Marines they actually recieved out to see if Terran Space Wolves can find new populations that they aren't bound to the way the Space Wolves are leashed to Fenris?
That was 9000 years ago none have tried since and only Bjorn still lives from that time.
There's also the bigger issue of all the equipment got smashed up, there isn't any more and Bjorn was against the idea. Know who'll argue with Bjorn? Nobody because he's a giant Dreadnought.
Bjorn was against stuffing with the Helix itself, Bjorn knows Russ wanted Space Wolves on more worlds than just Fenris.
That's a bit moot seeing as you have to fiddle with the Helix to get the more worlds part.
Cawl has already done it.
The Primaris Marines are Space Wolves with no connection to Fenris.
not quite, the space wolf priamris Marines are all from Fenris. (aspirants shuffled to the Primaris Project.. which begs the question, did the other Primarchs know about the Primaris project? It'd be a VERY intreasting development if it turns out the project was initated by all the surviving loyalist primarchs) we've not yet seen a specific example of a space wolf primaris whom ISN'T from Fenris.
Dakka Wolf wrote: The Space Wolves have had stories about Wolf Priests coming close to untying the Canis Helix, would any of them suggest sending the Primaris Marines they actually recieved out to see if Terran Space Wolves can find new populations that they aren't bound to the way the Space Wolves are leashed to Fenris?
That was 9000 years ago none have tried since and only Bjorn still lives from that time.
There's also the bigger issue of all the equipment got smashed up, there isn't any more and Bjorn was against the idea. Know who'll argue with Bjorn? Nobody because he's a giant Dreadnought.
Bjorn was against stuffing with the Helix itself, Bjorn knows Russ wanted Space Wolves on more worlds than just Fenris.
That's a bit moot seeing as you have to fiddle with the Helix to get the more worlds part.
Cawl has already done it.
The Primaris Marines are Space Wolves with no connection to Fenris.
not quite, the space wolf priamris Marines are all from Fenris. (aspirants shuffled to the Primaris Project.. which begs the question, did the other Primarchs know about the Primaris project? It'd be a VERY intreasting development if it turns out the project was initated by all the surviving loyalist primarchs) we've not yet seen a specific example of a space wolf primaris whom ISN'T from Fenris.
How are they all from Fenris? If you're right about that either Cawl has a breeding supply of Fenrisians or they've retconned how gene-seeds are farmed because farming gene-seeds involves sacrificing people, nine thousand years of gene-seed farming used to mean a pyramid scheme of sacrificed humans.
Dakka Wolf wrote: The Space Wolves have had stories about Wolf Priests coming close to untying the Canis Helix, would any of them suggest sending the Primaris Marines they actually recieved out to see if Terran Space Wolves can find new populations that they aren't bound to the way the Space Wolves are leashed to Fenris?
That was 9000 years ago none have tried since and only Bjorn still lives from that time.
There's also the bigger issue of all the equipment got smashed up, there isn't any more and Bjorn was against the idea. Know who'll argue with Bjorn? Nobody because he's a giant Dreadnought.
Bjorn was against stuffing with the Helix itself, Bjorn knows Russ wanted Space Wolves on more worlds than just Fenris.
That's a bit moot seeing as you have to fiddle with the Helix to get the more worlds part.
Cawl has already done it.
The Primaris Marines are Space Wolves with no connection to Fenris.
not quite, the space wolf priamris Marines are all from Fenris. (aspirants shuffled to the Primaris Project.. which begs the question, did the other Primarchs know about the Primaris project? It'd be a VERY intreasting development if it turns out the project was initated by all the surviving loyalist primarchs) we've not yet seen a specific example of a space wolf primaris whom ISN'T from Fenris.
How are they all from Fenris? If you're right about that either Cawl has a breeding supply of Fenrisians or they've retconned how gene-seeds are farmed because farming gene-seeds involves sacrificing people, nine thousand years of gene-seed farming used to mean a pyramid scheme of sacrificed humans.
the Primaris Marines have spent most of their time in stasis, most date back from around the Heresy era.
Somehow I doubt the Wolves and Blood Angels would be in that majority, those inheritance flaws that Cawl claims to have stabilised would require some serious work.
Maybe I'm just over-thinking it.
phydaux wrote: Skyclaws? Or do they count as Bloodclaws?
Skyclaws are blood claws given jump packs so presumably
Does anyone else think it's weird that Grey Hunters shoulder pads are red while Bloodclaws shoulder pads are yellow? Shouldn't Bloodclaws shoulder pads be red?
Would people be pissed if I painted my Bloodclaws with red pads and my Hunters with yellow pads just because I think it makes more sense?
'Cause i'm doing that.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I bought the Space Marines figures out of the Dark Imperium box set. I plan to paint them up as Space Wolves and give them a go the more I'm convinced I will have an utterly uncompetitive army.
I'm making my shopping list now from the classic Marines line to make my REAL Space Wolves army.
As already posted a bit above, the shoulderpads are actually supposed bi-colored. Yellow-red for Bloodclaws. red-black for Grey Hunters. The single-colored versions are GWs bone to the painting-challenged
Dakka Wolf wrote: The Space Wolves have had stories about Wolf Priests coming close to untying the Canis Helix, would any of them suggest sending the Primaris Marines they actually recieved out to see if Terran Space Wolves can find new populations that they aren't bound to the way the Space Wolves are leashed to Fenris?
That was 9000 years ago none have tried since and only Bjorn still lives from that time.
There's also the bigger issue of all the equipment got smashed up, there isn't any more and Bjorn was against the idea. Know who'll argue with Bjorn? Nobody because he's a giant Dreadnought.
Bjorn was against stuffing with the Helix itself, Bjorn knows Russ wanted Space Wolves on more worlds than just Fenris.
That's a bit moot seeing as you have to fiddle with the Helix to get the more worlds part.
Cawl has already done it.
The Primaris Marines are Space Wolves with no connection to Fenris.
not quite, the space wolf priamris Marines are all from Fenris. (aspirants shuffled to the Primaris Project.. which begs the question, did the other Primarchs know about the Primaris project? It'd be a VERY intreasting development if it turns out the project was initated by all the surviving loyalist primarchs) we've not yet seen a specific example of a space wolf primaris whom ISN'T from Fenris.
How are they all from Fenris? If you're right about that either Cawl has a breeding supply of Fenrisians or they've retconned how gene-seeds are farmed because farming gene-seeds involves sacrificing people, nine thousand years of gene-seed farming used to mean a pyramid scheme of sacrificed humans.
You don't need to sacrifice anyone to get gene-seed though. You take it from existing Marines or pinch it from the Mechanicum stockpiles.
You can take the one from the throat once it's matured but the other needs to stay until death.
But as you can't make wolves out of anything but fenrisians there's no need to take as much as you would for other chapters because you can't use them in a new founding.
You'd take seed for purity tests and store enough to perhaps reconstitute them if wiped out but the majority would stay in the fangs vaults.
phydaux wrote: Skyclaws? Or do they count as Bloodclaws?
Skyclaws are blood claws given jump packs so presumably
Does anyone else think it's weird that Grey Hunters shoulder pads are red while Bloodclaws shoulder pads are yellow? Shouldn't Bloodclaws shoulder pads be red?
Would people be pissed if I painted my Bloodclaws with red pads and my Hunters with yellow pads just because I think it makes more sense?
'Cause i'm doing that.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I bought the Space Marines figures out of the Dark Imperium box set. I plan to paint them up as Space Wolves and give them a go the more I'm convinced I will have an utterly uncompetitive army.
I'm making my shopping list now from the classic Marines line to make my REAL Space Wolves army.
As already posted a bit above, the shoulderpads are actually supposed bi-colored. Yellow-red for Bloodclaws. red-black for Grey Hunters. The single-colored versions are GWs bone to the painting-challenged
Yellow with red piping? Red with black piping? What about 'Fangs & 'Guard?
hobojebus wrote: Yeah not everyone will feel confident about doing a free hand design that has to match nine or so other models and may prefer using transfers.
But I feel it's worth the effort to do it on my guys.
I'm proably on mine going to do a simple rune set up, it should be erasy to free hand
phydaux wrote: Skyclaws? Or do they count as Bloodclaws?
Skyclaws are blood claws given jump packs so presumably
Does anyone else think it's weird that Grey Hunters shoulder pads are red while Bloodclaws shoulder pads are yellow? Shouldn't Bloodclaws shoulder pads be red?
Would people be pissed if I painted my Bloodclaws with red pads and my Hunters with yellow pads just because I think it makes more sense?
'Cause i'm doing that.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I bought the Space Marines figures out of the Dark Imperium box set. I plan to paint them up as Space Wolves and give them a go the more I'm convinced I will have an utterly uncompetitive army.
I'm making my shopping list now from the classic Marines line to make my REAL Space Wolves army.
As already posted a bit above, the shoulderpads are actually supposed bi-colored. Yellow-red for Bloodclaws. red-black for Grey Hunters. The single-colored versions are GWs bone to the painting-challenged
Yellow with red piping? Red with black piping? What about 'Fangs & 'Guard?
hobojebus wrote: Fyi they recovered the 13th from Prospero in a recent book along with their heresy era vehicles.
Really which book? Why was all their gear there?
Crimson wrote: Sure, if they want to be stupid (which in 40K is of course perfectly possible.) But it makes no sense to keep producing the inferior model when the upgrade is available.
The equipment point is a good one. As primaris have fixed spines and can't bend to get into Land Raiders they are a remarkably static force useless for anything but drops or garrisons. They also explode if forced to pick up a flamer or missile launcher. Until this is resolved they will have to be a secondary unit.
AndrewGPaul wrote: Of course, after Magnus' efforts, the Wolves have other issues with recruitment, but that's a different story.
Really? What happened?
Mleander wrote: I don't see Space Wolves just accepting those new ranks just because Guilliman say "here you go, these are your new toys". They will have to start as BCs, hence rendering the new ranks irrelevant to the Space Wolves and in my eyes impossible to incorporate in the chapter.
Or am I over thinking it?
True - as a non codex chapter why would they accept the latest attempt by Lord Smurf to make them compliant? I get why they wouldn't add them to existing packs - you come up with the same pack you joined when you were a blood claw. But the Primaris would have been used and re-organised multiple times in line with codex practices, so they wouldn't have that pack team work from creation.
hobojebus wrote: You can take the one from the throat once it's matured but the other needs to stay until death.
But as you can't make wolves out of anything but fenrisians there's no need to take as much as you would for other chapters because you can't use them in a new founding.
You'd take seed for purity tests and store enough to perhaps reconstitute them if wiped out but the majority would stay in the fangs vaults.
Well can't you have a captive breeding/cloning programme for Fenrisians?
Ashes of Prospero was the book, they had storm birds, spartans, masterdons and sicaren venerators everything they had during the hh.
As for cloning sure they could but they won't then know the culture, and without the death world conditions and raiding culture would not have the skills and hardiness of a fenrisian.
There's a reason space marines don't recruit from hive world's very often, to survive the transformation you need to be able to handle extreme adversity.
hobojebus wrote: Ashes of Prospero was the book, they had storm birds, spartans, masterdons and sicaren venerators everything they had during the hh.
As for cloning sure they could but they won't then know the culture, and without the death world conditions and raiding culture would not have the skills and hardiness of a fenrisian.
There's a reason space marines don't recruit from hive world's very often, to survive the transformation you need to be able to handle extreme adversity.
Ta - so the gear was abandoned on the surface and had been preserved?
Thought hive world gangers would be fine Actually recruits seem to come from all over - from the Ultramar Olympics to the mutants of Baal.
Did I misread something in the Gathering Storm books?
From what I recall the Primaris Program was similar to how the Deathwatch are now. Didn't Cawl draw normal Marines (or at least the geneseed) from all 18 Legions, upgrade them to Primaris and put them in stasis until Roboute returned. Granted some were thawed every once in a while to further train/check their status. And he supposedly still has a stash of the 9 Traitor Legions that Roboute forbids Cawl from releasing.
Even in the novel fluff, the one Primaris SW laments the fact that he isn't returning to Fenris when he is chosen to start the Wolfspear Chapter.
hobojebus wrote: Ashes of Prospero was the book, they had storm birds, spartans, masterdons and sicaren venerators everything they had during the hh.
As for cloning sure they could but they won't then know the culture, and without the death world conditions and raiding culture would not have the skills and hardiness of a fenrisian.
There's a reason space marines don't recruit from hive world's very often, to survive the transformation you need to be able to handle extreme adversity.
Ta - so the gear was abandoned on the surface and had been preserved?
Thought hive world gangers would be fine Actually recruits seem to come from all over - from the Ultramar Olympics to the mutants of Baal.
hobojebus wrote: Ashes of Prospero was the book, they had storm birds, spartans, masterdons and sicaren venerators everything they had during the hh.
As for cloning sure they could but they won't then know the culture, and without the death world conditions and raiding culture would not have the skills and hardiness of a fenrisian.
There's a reason space marines don't recruit from hive world's very often, to survive the transformation you need to be able to handle extreme adversity.
Ta - so the gear was abandoned on the surface and had been preserved?
Thought hive world gangers would be fine Actually recruits seem to come from all over - from the Ultramar Olympics to the mutants of Baal.
No the 13th Company was still using it.
Yeah they were still inside Prospero's portal system for them very little time had passed, when njal finds them they are under attack from silver towers on a bridge.
After that they travel to find the yarl of Dec Tra in a Spartan which really impresses the modern wolves, one of the heresy vlka jokes that if they think this is good wait till they see the masterdon.
So with the wulfen and the 13th returned the wolves emerge one of the bigger chapters unless the codex says different, given great armies back then were several thousand strong.
hobojebus wrote: Ashes of Prospero was the book, they had storm birds, spartans, masterdons and sicaren venerators everything they had during the hh.
As for cloning sure they could but they won't then know the culture, and without the death world conditions and raiding culture would not have the skills and hardiness of a fenrisian.
There's a reason space marines don't recruit from hive world's very often, to survive the transformation you need to be able to handle extreme adversity.
Ta - so the gear was abandoned on the surface and had been preserved?
Thought hive world gangers would be fine Actually recruits seem to come from all over - from the Ultramar Olympics to the mutants of Baal.
No the 13th Company was still using it.
Yeah they were still inside Prospero's portal system for them very little time had passed, when njal finds them they are under attack from silver towers on a bridge.
After that they travel to find the yarl of Dec Tra in a Spartan which really impresses the modern wolves, one of the heresy vlka jokes that if they think this is good wait till they see the masterdon.
So with the wulfen and the 13th returned the wolves emerge one of the bigger chapters unless the codex says different, given great armies back then were several thousand strong.
except that the 13th company they found was just a fraction. of the sizeI expect if the 13th great company is mentioned in the codex it'll be maybe 200 odd strong.
Space Wolves are typically 1500-2000 strong, and I expect them to still be struggling to replenish their post fenris ranks, and all too ready to plug the holes with Primaris Marines.
fun thought, what if the primaris are the sub chapter we have always wanted, and NEVER tried before in a way that went really terribly. Also what if Russ is the one leading them from behind the warp way?
), this is a single image on a page of colour schemes; the full background will no doubt name them more appropriately.
