What follows is a new player guide for Epic 30K and 40K. For those wanting to give 30/40k at 6mm scale a go, or even collect and paint some miniatures. But where do you start?
Latest Update April 2025 Games Workshop released 5th Edition Epic Legions Imperialis in Autumn 2024. This is a currently active and supported game and can be bought direct from Games Workshop webstore https://www.warhammer.com/en-GB/shop/other-games/legions-imperialis
As player and buying guides for the new edition are commonly available that isn't covered here. Instead, this guide will continue to be updated and collate links for the other previous versions of the game. Legions Imperialis players, new to Epic, who want to use their marines against Xenos forces in previous versions of the game might find useful links below.
Most commonly asked question: "I want to use my Legions Imperialis collection in another version of the game, but am not sure which"
The unhelpful answer here is "all of them" as any previous ruleset can be adapted (after all, the very first game edition was marines vs. marines set during the Heresy), however if you want the closest 1:1 corollary then the following are suggested:
- For the largest active community & player base - 4th edition Epic Armageddon with Epic Heresy AU Community updates: ttps://web.archive.org/web/20201112013556/http://epicau.com/mw/index.php/Legion_Astartes - For the most granular and accurate representation of the current Horus Heresy miniature range - Imperius Dominatus https://imperiusdominatus.org/
The Community The important one! Obviously you already have Dakka (and hopefully this thread will help corral together some other interested folk), but there are some great other places around the web:
The Epic Wiki pagehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_(game) What is Epic? A very useful summary for the uninitiated.
. The EPIC SPACE MARINE Facebook grouphttps://www.facebook.com/groups/SMEPIC40K/ A great starting point, although there are other Epic/6mm groups. Very active community with 2000+ members, see lots of pics of armies and battle reports, artwork, event news and rules queries.
. The Tactical Command Forumhttps://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/index.php?sid=fee1775328d18df28d56019358ff35ed Find literally everything you need to here about any version of epic, and have any rules question answered from a cadre of very dedicated and friendly members. A great hub for events.
. Epic UKhttp://epic-uk.co.uk/wp/ A hub for the UK-based event and tournament scene, a great source for army lists and other info.
. Net Epic Armageddonhttp://www.net-armageddon.org/ A substantial rules and army list suppository for the Armageddon version of Epic.
. Epic Armageddon by Guildford Games Clubhttps://guildfordgamesclub.wordpress.com/tag/epic-armageddon/ A comprehensive collection of army/faction guides. Great place to start if you want to start with an army but are not sure where!
. Epic Heresy AUhttps://web.archive.org/web/20201112013556/http://epicau.com/mw/index.php/Legion_Astartes An attempt to re-create the Forgeworld Heresy 30k range and books for 6mm scale. Comprehensive army lists and advice for getting started. NOTE: Also available from the Epic Space Marine Middlehammer Facebook group (file section) if the Wayback machine link does not work).
. Imperius Dominatushttps://www.facebook.com/groups/389010114859638 New for October 2020 - 30k Heresy on a ruleset based on Space Marine/NetEpic Gold.
The Rules Firstly, it's important to mention that GW have been very, very nice about allowing old rule sets to remain in circulation. They're not officially hosted on a GW server anymore, but they are available to download for free from various sources depending on which version of the game you want to play. You do see a few of the 'old guard' (either ex or current GW developers) in amongst the online community from time to time, which gives the impression of fond feeling towards the game.
As there is no 'official' version of rules instead the community formed around the last (and in the eyes of some, ultimate) version, Epic Armageddon. However there are other epic groups centered around the older 'Epic Space Marine' and 'Epic 40,000' versions of the game. The great thing is, that as they use the same miniatures it's relatively easy to adapt a force to use in one system or another.
This very handy guide (courtesy of WargameTrader) helps show the different versions of the game that were released, with links below:
There is also a great Youtube video, courtesy of Snipe & Wib, which does a great run down on the history of the game:
Please also check out this great Website resource at https://zedmeister.co.uk/zms.php?ch=7. Not sure which version of the game you played or where you read a White Dwarf article? This site will definitely give you a hand!
Firstly, check out MiniWars for a really great reference for where to get hold of various miniatures for each of the unit choices for Epic armies. This covers both the GW historical ranges and also has a pretty comprehensive view of proxy miniatures from other manufacturers that fit the bill. +Update 2020+ This website has now had a functionality update that makes it even more useful than before.
https://miniwars.co.uk/
In summary, there has never been a better time to get into Epic (except perhaps back in 1995!) and there are three main choices here:
eBay - The obvious choice, there are masses of miniatures available. Expect to pay top $ for new, boxed or sealed miniatures from old ranges, however some prudent shopping and a bit of patience (especially if you enjoy treasure hunting, and are prepared to gamble a bit when zooming in and searching through clear-out miniature piles!) it's very easy to collect a substantial force for relatively little money. Ignore the 'buy-it-now, single 6mm miniature for £5' range - the chances are the same mini will show up again, at the fraction of the cost, as a part of a clear out or collection. As far as I know, counterfeiting is rare - it's not something I have experienced, and the usual tell-tale signs (resin copies of metal minis, suspiciously cheap collections from Russia or China) aren't present. So you should be safe with most purchases.
See also: Buying miniatures from the Epic facebook groups, trade sections of Tactical Command, very useful if you're after a rare miniature.
New 3rd-party miniature producers - A few of these have sprung up over recent years, basically since GW Legal stopped pursuing garage-casters and claiming legal rights to halberds, skulls and the like. These have had the double benefit of helping to push down eBay prices of official 2nd hand minis, but have also resulted in some fantastic new sculpts - arguably better than the older GW minis in a lot of cases, if you can put up with something looking slightly different to a Rhino. Here are a few of the more popular choices:
Vanguard Miniatures - http://vanguardminiatures.co.uk/ - Your one-stop shop, Vanguard have gobbled up a few other miniature ranges and now sell everything from Skinnerz (Orks), Novan Elite (marines), Grudd (Squats/Demiurg) and others. Constantly expanding range, very high quality and notably 'dynamically' posed infantry, rather than the static rank & file of the old GW plastics.
HLS Miniatures - https://hlsmodels.com/ - Sell the miniature range of the now sadly defunct Steel Crown miniatures - contains approximations of Necrons, human sci-fi armies amongst others, and some nice titans.
Onslaught Miniatureshttp://www.onslaughtmini.com/ - Great proxies for Tau, Dark Eldar, Cultists, Squats and others!
Bradley Miniatures - https://www.alternative-armies.com/collections/bradley-miniatures-6mm-range - Some proxies for Marines and Guard
Trolls under the bridge - https://www.trolls.cz/collections/6mm-warfare - Some conversion components (yes really!) for the GW miniature range.
Microworld Games - https://www.microworldgames.com/collections/6mm-scifi - These guys have their own game, but there are some good proxies for 'sci-fi humans', chaos beastmen and the like.
3D printed file miniatures for sale Mighty Minis UKhttps://www.mighty-minis-uk.com/ - Collection of 3D file prints from Lazy Forger, Bitz Blitz amongst others. Also UK distributor for Onslaught Games and sell some 2nd hand Epic.
Adeptus Titanicus- Last but not least, GW's re-imagining of the original game from 30 years ago. Immensely awesome game of Titan combat, an excellent game in its own right or use the new miniatures for Titans in Epic. You can keep up with the latest news in the N&R thread here on Dakka as well as the Specialist Games area of the forum https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/716640.page
Terrain Some links a-z below for finding terrain for your 6/8mm games - hopefully enough to get started, but if anyone knows of any more please drop a note! Also, on a general note searches on Ebay for "Epic terrain" or "6mm Terrain" will yield a variety of results from small garage sellers, 3D printed ruins amongst other useful things.
Painting and Modelling This area to be expanded. Guides to painting and modelling at 6-8mm scale.
Quick guide to painting Epic Infantry.https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/788741.page - A guide I have created showing simple methods to painting Infantry bases.
"Aren't 6mm models too small and fiddly to paint?"
"No. Just the opposite in fact, paint jobs that look great are easy - basecoat of 2 or 3 colours and metal for the weapons, quick wash and a few highlights, and done. As they are so cheap, best thing to do is buy a few and give them a try!"
Looks very comprehensive, well done!
I'd suggest you add a reference to onslaught. They're doing some very nice tau, dark eldar, cultist and what not stuff. Along the line of almost GW but not quite the same.
A blog and battle report that was just brought to my attention from an Italian website - well worth looking at!
This shows what absolutely mental (but in a good way!) fans and players you have playing Epic. Just the level of dedication involved - wow!
http://eatotalwar.forumfree.it/?t=73628951
I've written a - fairly comprehensive - set of break downs of the different armies currently in Epic Armageddon as well as a quick article on painting at 6mm
I can post a link to them if people would like to read through?
I can;t do it my first post, so if someone wants to see I can hopefully link in post number 2.
Until then here's the entry for Imperial Space Marines
[spoiler]The Imperial Space Marines
The Imperial Space Marines. Bioengineered warrior monks and crusading knight analogues in the sci-fantasy future! The razors edge on the blade of Imperial might. Keepers of dark secrets, wild ravaging nomads, crusading brethren and much more.
Link To Space Marine Codex
There are several chapters with their own lists as well as a basic Codex Marines list. Dark Angels, White Scars, Blood Angels, Space Wolves and Black Templars. The Codex Marines list may appear at first glance as a more ‘generic’ list but it focuses on an aerial assault playstyle so may not be the best pick for how you want to play.
IN GENERAL
Space marine lists tend towards having larger numbers of smaller formations. They tend to roll fewer dice but have better to hit values and armour values in return as well as the And They Shall Know No Fear special rule to overcome some of the weaknesses their smaller formation sizes can lead to. They also have good access to a lot of mobility options and ways of entering and leaving the table.
Space marines are a finesse force, requiring a firm grasp of how to get your models into positions to support one another, focusing their force in a small area of the table, destroying the opposition there and then often leaving the table again to rapidly shift the focus of attack to a different point. This makes them less beginner friendly than might be expected from Warhammer 40k but it does mean they play more like a group of special operative teams finding ways to overcome far larger numbers of opposition.
CODEX MARINES
The Codex Marine list generally favours use of aerial assets and scouting forces. Using landspeeders, scouts and warhounds to create space on the table and to control how your opponent can move around the board whilst also placing blast markers on the enemy. Then, once an opportunity presents itself (or has been engineered by your scouting forces) you land a hammer blow with your aerial assets and destroy a part of your opponent’s army. Then ideally you extract the hammer blow formations back from the table and repeat the process next turn.
This is mostly achieved through the use of a pair of Thunderhawks and a formation of Terminators. Terminators are extremely powerful and their weakness in mobility is overcome by using the Thunderhawks to land them on the table and then have the second (empty!) one land and pick them back up again to fly off the table. Cycling them on and off the table each turn.
The list also supports more traditional ‘marines in rhinos’ rushing about the place though this exposes your smaller numbers of models to greater risk than the aerial approach. Or use of spaceships for orbital drops – which plays similarly to the aerial circus approach but lands more powerful assets in a single strike in exchange for losing the ability to recycle them for later turns.
Codex marines also have many options and a very flexible army list allowing a great deal of freedom to make skew lists and play themes of your own devising. Taking nothing but Terminators or an armoured division with predators, vindicators and land raiders everywhere is…while not particularly advised from a competitive stand point probably a lot of fun to play.
However the Codex marines have a general lack of good anti-Titan tools and dealing with large numbers of, or particularly powerful forms of, War Engines will take care and the correct use of the support fire rules to get enough models to be involved in the fights to overcome them. You will also likely find that your shooting phases are not a game winner, the combination of smaller numbers of models and shorter ranges overall means you won’t be defeating your opponents hordes of Boyz with raw firepower, instead the shooting should be looked at as a way of setting up your decisive Engagements.
Playing successfully with the Codex Marines will likely require a good understanding of how to use the blast marker, Engagement and Supporting Fire rules so brushing up on those will probably help your play considerably!
DARK ANGELS
Very similar to the Codex Marine list in playstyle. It sacrifices access to the Titan Legion and Imperial Navy assets (because Dark Angels need to keep their secrets, can’t have some nosy guardsman stumbling across something…) to gain better Devastators, Nephilim and Ravenwing formations.
The advice for Codex Marines holds true here, scouting forces and aerial assets will be your bread and butter but the Devastators can make your orbital attacks more powerful (their better shooting is well worth the slow firing penalty because generally you’d want to shoot once and then be stuck in Engagements rather than standing off and firing multiple turns over) and the particular stand out is the Ravenwing formation. It mixes Bikes with Landspeeders and because of the Garrison rules allowing a formation that has at least half the models with the scout rule (the landspeeders have scout!) to Garrison that means you can have a strong combat formation on the half way line before the first turn even start!
Dark Angels are arguably an even better version of the Codex Marines list. Due to their cost and list skewing impacts the larger Titans are not a common sight so their loss here is not really felt and the Ravenwing compete for the same role the Warhound would have taken. Nephilim are better – but more expensive – substitutes for Thunderbolts too.
Incidentally the Ravenwing formations and other mobile assets of the list in general mean that they could make a different spin on the lightning warfare role the White Scars are famous for. If the sacrifices the White Scars list makes for its unique toys are too much for you perhaps consider the Dark Angels with a different paint job
Epic is a much better game system than 40k.
I'd still play it, if you know, there was anyone left in my area that did. Very dissapointed GW moved away from their excellent Specialist game rules towards the style for 40k.
It shows epic players are still playing the same GW Release a decade after it died, but can't have a 40k event without houseruling it to death.
I've added the Guilford Games Club link in the main article above.
Think those are really, really useful, especially to new players who want some kind of guidance when starting out a faction. I used it myself (or think I had read a copy elsewhere) when I first starte collecting Orks, and it was indispensable.
I just wanted to post to show my respect/support. In the US since there isn't much of a "gaming club" culture per se, we're often at the mercy of what a given shop supports. If a game is "dead" they see no revenue stream, and thus don't encourage the game's presence.
There's something to be said for the importance of a re-release. I have almost no interest in the upcoming Titanicus, but I sincerely hope it'll be a gateway for a return of Epic.
For anyone UK based there are a couple of really good army deals on the 'Bay at the moment (less £50, some auction time remaining) - I spotted Marines and IG, possibly others. There is a fair bit about at the moment, although it's been noted in the FB groups that prices are starting to rise.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: I just wanted to post to show my respect/support. In the US since there isn't much of a "gaming club" culture per se, we're often at the mercy of what a given shop supports. If a game is "dead" they see no revenue stream, and thus don't encourage the game's presence.
There's something to be said for the importance of a re-release. I have almost no interest in the upcoming Titanicus, but I sincerely hope it'll be a gateway for a return of Epic.
Yes I think so, definitely. It will being the game back into the gaming public's consciousness. Definitely will help that shops can put something on their shelves and then can be played in the store (we have a fair bit of gaming store/club setup in the UK too)
My thoughts are boxes of AT on the shelves plus supplements. I don't think it will go much beyond that, but it would be nice if some of the companies that make miniatures for Epic can grow a bit as a result of this and maybe even have some of their products on shop shelves. Which will grow the Epic community as a whole.
While i do have a inntrest in this game, what turns me off is the simple fact that GW dont make it anymore and thus no complete pruduct line is avalible.
I browsed true ebay this morning, found plenty of SM, orc and eldar infantry stuff some very cheap other very expensive(and half of them did not ship outside of u.s/germany) but very little vehicles or titans or flyers or other fun stuff.
and imperial guard was more or less non existant.
3rd party models while they look good, has only a small fraction of units up for sale.
As i see it, specialist range games today is for thouse who owned the models before specialist range was pulled of, not for us who has nothing and need everything.
Vanguard Miniatures has proxies for most of the Imperial (Space Marines and Imperial Guard) units, even the Titan Legions/Adeptus Mechanicus is more or less complete.
Their Ork proxies still need some expanding, but I wouldn't call it a 'small fraction'. The Tainted (Chaos proxies) are just getting started, with more stuff on its way.
However, their Eloi (Eldar proxies) are indeed a tiny fraction of a complete army, but it's a bit of a catch 22. Production of such a complete range is a big investment (and risk) which might not sell, but the current stuff might not sell well because it isn't a complete range.
There's also Onslaught Miniatures providing essentially a full range for Dark Eldar and Tau as well as various Imperial Knights and are well on their way with Squats.
I've been able to find local tournaments and events from Tactical Command forum - although guess that might be a bit more difficult in the States as its a much larger country!
Otherwise I've just got a mate to play who used to play Epic back in the day - there are a lot of veteran players of the game and most have fond memories of it, especially now that the new AT game has come along.
Let us know how you get along (and if you have any mini-scale projects on the go!)
Stormhammers are great aren't they! Very versatile for shorter range combat.
I like Space Marine too - I think it's probably the better game for really large scale epic games as the movement, shooting etc. is much swifter than Armageddon (although I think it loses a little with the detail of combat and tactics involved).
Hey folks - some time since I've had anything to add to this thread, but after working on an Epic/AT board for a while have come up with a few links for Terrain options - I've listed these a-z below, hopefully enough to get started, but if anyone knows of any more please drop a note!
Also, on a general note searches on Ebay for "Epic terrain" or "6mm Terrain" will yield a variety of results from small garage sellers, 3D printed ruins amongst other useful things.
Good luck with finding the gaming group Alpharius !
As an alternative, have you got any willing accomplices who could get roped in if you supply the minis? I'm in the process of building my own gaming group - having to build and paint a fair amount, but with it being 6mm its not too much of a chore
As a side note, what force are you going to start collecting first?
PS - the Tactical Command forum is a great place and really helpful, but I think the website tech probably predates Epic itself (or maybe even Adeptus Titanicus for that matter!)
Yes, but then you suffer the consequence of the rules & game being gak
I'm building up to use for Epic Armageddon as I love the breaking/assault rules and the way combined arms take a role (funnily enough think it's probably the most 'accurate' rules in terms of representation of warfare that GW have ever published) but I do like the Space Marine/Net Epic rules too - I definitely think they work better for larger points values.
1. Epic Space marine 1st edition. This wasn't a coherent rule set as rules were evolving and it grew out of the actual first ruleset Adeptus Titanicus 1st edition.
2. Epic space marine 2nd edition. The first coherent rules system with many expansions. Most commercially successful release. Represents the "golden age" of epic gaming. Currently supported by Netepic Gold.
3. Epic 40k (3rd edition). Short lived, coherent rules system, but poorly supported in minis releases by GW. Commercial failure. Last epic system to be a "core game".
4. Epic Armageddon (4th edition). Only epic version not to feature an initial boxed set. Several printed supplements. Suffered from poor minis support from GW, but what was released are probably the best epic minis made by GW. Lingered for about a decade before it was no longer officially available. Currently supported by the epic Armageddon community (several versions according to geography).
Space Marine 2nd Edition was amazing. Came with Buildings, land raiders and falcons. I seem to recall orks as well? Rules were decent too. Had a Warlord Titan, and he was rather awesome.
Oh the day will come, Alpharius, when Epic will return. And you and I shall meet in glorius battle...in the halls of Nottingham's finest locale! Titans shall be met with the sound of tank fire, and Knights harried by infantry!
I always think that they likelihood of it getting a re-release is so small just because of the number of lines of miniatures that would be needed (even a 'stripped down' version for Armageddon would need 30+), but.. who knows, never say never!
Good luck with the miniature building Alpharius and with getting hold of the group! I actually have a game this evening where I hope to make some converts - Great Crusade-era World Eaters vs. Orks will get some pics up if I get the opportunity!
Down for maintenance, then also extended the downtime for server upgrades.
This pushed the return date out from what's listed there now - but now even the placeholder page is down.
This is worrisome, as oftentimes when pages go down, people sometimes rethink the cost in terms of money and time and...the forum goes away.
I hope that's not the case here, as I literally just started getting back into "Epic" scale gaming.
I think they've got a Twitter page - but I can't seem to locate it/remember the name, etc.
Fingers crossed that this is just a minor blip and they're back up soon!
EDIT:
Update!
TacWarNet
@TacWarNet
·
13h
All data and software has now been backed up, and the server has been updated, including all core requirements such as PHP, etc. Next step will be to configure the server, then I will start restoring websites and forums. Thanks for your patience. CS
Hi guys , will be selling my epic collect soonish and was wondering if people generally prefer something like the 2nd edition box ( mostly ) complete , or would they sooner have all the orc bits chucked in with my other orc stuff , same with elder ,space marines ect
dalezzz wrote: Hi guys , will be selling my epic collect soonish and was wondering if people generally prefer something like the 2nd edition box ( mostly ) complete , or would they sooner have all the orc bits chucked in with my other orc stuff , same with elder ,space marines ect
If it is all old 2nd edition stuff I guess by army? The rules aren't of much interest to people and are freely available on ebay anyway.
Cheers , I figured as much but wasn’t sure . Is there any call for the contents of the first edition box? Buildings ,models obviously. I’m guessing the rest might as well go in the bin though? Maybe the order counters someone might want?
dalezzz wrote: Cheers , I figured as much but wasn’t sure . Is there any call for the contents of the first edition box? Buildings ,models obviously. I’m guessing the rest might as well go in the bin though? Maybe the order counters someone might want?
People might like the rule book for the fluff and stories in it?
Cheers guys , will get it all sorted soon , not touched any of it for 20 years ( except for moving house ) and its bringing back just how good a game it was!
Wow, I didn't realize people were still playing Epic! I have some old Khorne daemon engines as objective markers, but would love to paint them up proper instead of just gold trophies for objectives.
I'm pretty much done with regular 40k at this point. Haven't tried Apocalypse yet, but I haven't built a 40k sized Lord of Battles yet either
A quick note - I got caught out thinking the Tactical Command forum is still offline. It's not - I just needed to refresh the cache in my browser (doh!) But just in case anyone else has thought it has been down for the past month
The_Real_Chris wrote:
dalezzz wrote: Cheers , I figured as much but wasn’t sure . Is there any call for the contents of the first edition box? Buildings ,models obviously. I’m guessing the rest might as well go in the bin though? Maybe the order counters someone might want?
People might like the rule book for the fluff and stories in it?
And the artwork! Never throw away old books. For a non-officially supported game there will always be communities playing different versions of that game. I think even for 'current' games (40k etc.) someone will get some value from a book, even if its just for the stories, the artwork, the painted minis. I have often taken older codex books to charity shops, there will be people that can't afford the latest and greatest and you never know someone might think that would be interesting for their grandchild and a new gamer is born!
Malathrim wrote:Wow, I didn't realize people were still playing Epic! I have some old Khorne daemon engines as objective markers, but would love to paint them up proper instead of just gold trophies for objectives.
I'm pretty much done with regular 40k at this point. Haven't tried Apocalypse yet, but I haven't built a 40k sized Lord of Battles yet either
Yes there is still a pretty active community! Not so much as Blood Bowl or Necromunda had before their re-launches but I think still pretty sizable - as evident by the number of 3rd party and garage producers making proxy miniatures for the range. Adeptus Titanicus coming out has only helped to remind people of what an awesome scale it is for representing conflict at a mass battle level!
While this is a a bit of a self plug, its' I think useful. If new players want to see how epic battle goes, then I have a whole bunch of video battle report on my channel in youtube. Below is a link to playlists which have all my games in three series.
Out of curiosity, does anyone know if the EpicAU guys are still active? Their forum seems to be down while the wiki with Heresy lists is up, but I'm somewhat puzzled by a few entries there and cannot find a contact email.
primarch1 wrote: 4. Epic Armageddon (4th edition). Only epic version not to feature an initial boxed set. Several printed supplements. Suffered from poor minis support from GW, but what was released are probably the best epic minis made by GW.
I remember stuff like the Seige Masters of Baran with a bit of ambivalence. It was great to see alternative guard minis including that wacky Ragnarok tank (with hindsight, a 40K-ised Soviet army with that wacky KV-2 tank.) but was it really necessary compared to any of the regular 40K armies with no E:A release? By that time did they expect people were just using their old armies for everything else, so they might as well try something new?
I think that was probably partly it Vermis. I had also read that the Specialist Games area was used as a bit of a training area for some of the junior sculptors at GW. While most of the sculpts were great, there were a few releases that weren't quite up to the standards of their 40k/fantasy counterparts (not just for Epic, but the Necromunda, Blood Bowl releases around that time also).
Malika - those look awesome! I'm sure I checked a few days ago and they weren't on the site - have they gone on there and gone immediately out of stock? I know the news on the forum says about the difficulty of getting re-stocks at the moment.
Sherrypie wrote: Out of curiosity, does anyone know if the EpicAU guys are still active? Their forum seems to be down while the wiki with Heresy lists is up, but I'm somewhat puzzled by a few entries there and cannot find a contact email.
I'm not sure I'm afraid, I've only ever used the forum as a resource and not got involved in the forum. You could try asking on Tactical Command as I'm sure those guys will be more in the loop?
I think that was probably partly it Vermis. I had also read that the Specialist Games area was used as a bit of a training area for some of the junior sculptors at GW. While most of the sculpts were great, there were a few releases that weren't quite up to the standards of their 40k/fantasy counterparts (not just for Epic, but the Necromunda, Blood Bowl releases around that time also).
Malika - those look awesome! I'm sure I checked a few days ago and they weren't on the site - have they gone on there and gone immediately out of stock? I know the news on the forum says about the difficulty of getting re-stocks at the moment.
Sherrypie wrote: Out of curiosity, does anyone know if the EpicAU guys are still active? Their forum seems to be down while the wiki with Heresy lists is up, but I'm somewhat puzzled by a few entries there and cannot find a contact email.
I'm not sure I'm afraid, I've only ever used the forum as a resource and not got involved in the forum. You could try asking on Tactical Command as I'm sure those guys will be more in the loop?
Malika - those look awesome! I'm sure I checked a few days ago and they weren't on the site - have they gone on there and gone immediately out of stock? I know the news on the forum says about the difficulty of getting re-stocks at the moment.
The story is currently closed due to an overload of orders. John needs to process a chunk of his backlog of orders, here's a short statement:
ORDERING
Due to a large influx of orders I have had to take the drastic move to temporarily disable ordering on the site. This is the only way I can gain the time necessary to catch up and get everyone’s orders packed and shipped out.
At the moment I just cannot catch up, the current backlog keeps building up and it’s impossible for me to keep on top of it.
In a way yeah...I do hope that John doesn't work himself towards a burnout. I do hope that in the longer run he might be able to hire some peeps to take care of stuff like orders and what not so he can focus on other stuff as well. Personally I feel the marketing in the widest sense of the word (social media, website, but also stuff like background material, game rules, and trying to expand beyond the Epic market) also needs some good attention to truly make this endeavour grow.
I have added a guide to the Painting and Modelling section of the forum and updated the first post in this thread with a new Painting and Modelling section (this needs to be expanded - I will add some further links).
Hopefully this should be useful for anyone that is interested in painting infantry at this scale, but is put off by the small scale. Hopefully it goes some way to show that these fears are unfounded!
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/788741.page
Pacific wrote: I have added a guide to the Painting and Modelling section of the forum and updated the first post in this thread with a new Painting and Modelling section (this needs to be expanded - I will add some further links).
Hopefully this should be useful for anyone that is interested in painting infantry at this scale, but is put off by the small scale. Hopefully it goes some way to show that these fears are unfounded!
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/788741.page
I'm just about to jump head first into painting up armies for *every* Space Marine/Titan Legions faction - this is perfect timing and very helpful - thanks for putting in the work and posting this here - much appreciated!
Thanks mate! Was painting up the lovely new Vanguard minis and thought why not take some pics at the same time, so it wasn't too much bother.
Wow that sounds like an ambitious project! Are there any legions in particular that you're going to start with?
I'm just trying to go 'big' with the World Eaters and am just adding new units as I go. Sadly a few of the custom casters seem to have disappeared from eBay (there was a guy from Germany doing some really great Pre-Heresy super heavies) so at the moment I'm just sticking to Vanguard and the classic GW stuff that doesn't cost a million pounds.
I will definitely be picking up some of Vanguard's Eldar Infantry figures when they're available - along with the recently released fantastic Space Marine Infantry!
This is such a useful tool (I can't express that strongly enough!) for trying to find minis for whichever faction you are collecting for. You can click on each faction icon and it takes you through to units (these match up with entries in the army lists). You can then look at both the 'classic' miniatures (with ebay links) or whichever proxies have been made which are appropriate.
There is also a great section on the site for player submitted armies, which are really inspirational, and even links back to the Epic Armageddon rules which are downloadable.
IME, TTS only really sings when someone has spent the time to automate everything needed. For example, playing Star Wars Legion on TTS is quite easy. Currently, any version of Epic... not so much.
There are tables with a fair amount of stuff programmed in, including all the scenery and models, etc. Setting up your list in advance of the game is the only thing that's needed and an understanding of the rules. Everything else is just as easy as it would be on tabletop - Easier in many aspects.
Just giving this thread a bump as there are some ongoing discussion topics in the 40k section about Epic, and hopefully might be useful to someone!
Also thinking: 3D printing is now becoming pretty big and so much stuff you see in the community has been 3D printed.
Has anyone got a good knowledge of starting points with 3D files, where to find printing services and things like that? Not necessarily 'how to 3D print' or anything that complex, but just from a high level of which route to take, links etc.
If so and they'd be kind enough to put a post or PM together I will post it in the main first post.
Great new site for a few reasons; first of all they are small scale and epic focussed, so everything there is for Epic, AT or Warmaster. They also sell 3D prints from STL files (I have just made an order so will update on how that turns out!), are now a UK distributor for Onslaught Minis (great as Vanguard had stopped doing this) and finally are also selling reasonably priced 2nd hand minis. Very nice to see a cheaper alternative to hated eBay sellers, and enemies of epic players (and humanity), Goldfishblue and hygeinic porridge.
Updated OP with this really great Epic versions guide, courtesy of the WargamingTrader. I hadn't realised there were only a couple of years between 1st and 2nd editions, it felt a lot longer when I was a kid!
Just a quick update with a Epic-related Podcast I have discovered. It's called the 'Crown of Command' podcast - they have a really great series on various Epic releases with Jon Webb (who really knows his stuff about the game). They go through some of the original releases and also a synopsis of the expansion releases with a focus on each army, have to say they are an ideal Epic hobby time and painting companion!
Thanks for those Strg Alt I have updated the OP Some really videos actually! Very professionally done. I defy anyone to watch those and not want to play Epic (and 30k Horus Heresy for that matter! Some very cool terrain and minis).
Thanks, i already have my answer. the quistion was how manny missle launcher would be in a tactical unit space marines.
In the past i did moddeld them with 3 missle launcher per unit. but it seems to be 6 launchers per unit of tactical marines.
skeleton wrote: Thanks, i already have my answer. the quistion was how manny missle launcher would be in a tactical unit space marines.
In the past i did moddeld them with 3 missle launcher per unit. but it seems to be 6 launchers per unit of tactical marines.
In E:A, the modeling does not matter. You get a tactical marine formation, which in Codex Marines means six units (bases) of tacticals, that are most often modelled as five marines per unit. Many players like to put a single heavy weapon model per unit in there, but some have more and some have none. Ruleswise this makes no difference. Usually people put more heavy weapons per unit on bases that represent Devastators.
2 missile launchers per stand is a perfect amount for Devestators, in fact that was the 'standard' proposed by GW for many years in the first editions of the game, so you will see in all of the old White Dwarf battle reports etc.
Razorbacks are a tricky one. You don't see them for sale very often and when you do they are very expensive (£15 for 1 6mm tank? I don't think so!) I would first look at some of the proxy options available, there are a few. Miniwars is a really great site, you can search for any faction or unit type and it will display different proxy or 3rd-party options available: https://miniwars.co.uk/epic-40k/miniatures/space-marines/razorback/ In this case both Vanguard Miniatures and Trolls Under the Bridge do a really similar proxy that will be a lot cheaper.
If you really want the GW original you could try joining a few Epic Facebook groups - 'Epic Space Marine 40K Middlehammer' (which is the most popular Epic FB group) or 'Epic 30k 40k 6mm - Buy Swap and Sell - Also Titanicus & Aeronautica' - you can try your luck and ask for the mini on there, sometimes a kind soul will help you out.
For Epic Armageddon War Engines for Space Marines I don't think they have many to choose from. If you want an online resource for the original rule books check out the Net Armageddon rule resources https://www.net-armageddon.org/army-lists.html or the Epic UK resource http://epic-uk.co.uk/wp/ These are tournament-ready rulesets which have had some expansions (for example, many of the major Chapters now have their own lists) - they have all been heavily playtested so are well balanced are I think universally accepted by Epic groups.
Checking these though it only looks like there are the Titan options available (maybe someone with a bit more Armageddon knowledge than me can help out here and point out any others!)
Landing Craft, yes, which is essentially a bigger Thunderhawk if you want to put all of your eggs in one painful basket. No big tanks or other funky super heavies for the marines, who embody the mobile scalpel strike way of war.
skeleton wrote: Thanks, i already have my answer. the quistion was how manny missle launcher would be in a tactical unit space marines.
In the past i did moddeld them with 3 missle launcher per unit. but it seems to be 6 launchers per unit of tactical marines.
I model mine...
Tacticals
Battle company - Mk7 plastic marine, one stand missile luancher, one stand sarge.
Reserve comapny - MK6 plastic marine, 1 stand missile launcher, 1 stand sarge
Devestators
Battle company - Mk7 plastic marine, one stand 2 missile launchers, one stand 2 missile launchers & sarge.
Reserve comapny - MK6 plastic marine, one stand 2 missile launchers, one stand 2 missile launchers & sarge.
I have seen people done sarge + 4 missile launchers and one stand 5 normal marines to match 40k, but I think it doesn't look that hot. Likewise a for tacticals put the missile launcher and sarge on same stand but again not that good.
when do you use your ff?
You use you ff only if you do an assault move and if you get pulled into an assault.
And you dont use it when the enemy come's with in 15cm.
i have the old blastmarkers from epic 40k but they are beaten up and im searching for replacements, what do you use as blastmarkers.
dice i dont like because they to big i thingk.
FF values are used in Engagements (assaults) when you are within 15 cm but not in base contact with the enemy units. CC values are used when in base contact.
For blast markers, many use old GW markers from Epics or BFG, print or model little explosions, glass beads and what not. I have a bag of cardboard markers from the latest 40k Apocalypse box, but would like to someday make a pile of small explosions as well.
Updated with details of Zedmeister's extremely useful Epic resource, which gives full details of all the versions of Epic, their expansions and even individual White Dwarf content listings: https://zedmeister.co.uk/zms.php?ch=7
Any chanse this thread could get a sticky to the top of the page so it dont go to page 2 and basicly vanishes from time.
OP should prolly allso make a sentence or two about the main difference between this system and the official 30k epic, seeing that they will be two different systems but using the same game name.
FrozenDwarf wrote: Any chanse this thread could get a sticky to the top of the page so it dont go to page 2 and basicly vanishes from time.
OP should prolly allso make a sentence or two about the main difference between this system and the official 30k epic, seeing that they will be two different systems but using the same game name.
Er, there's already 4 Epic editions with different rules ^^. Legions Imperialis will simply be the fifth ^^
Hey guys - will wait to see how the dust settles with Imperialis Legionis (possibly as soon as the game goes on sale, or at least when we have something more concrete) before updating this guide.
Pacific wrote: Hey folks - does anyone have a new link for Heresy AU? The original looks to be down.
EpicAU basically dropped their development project at the end of 2020, which led to the server death of their wiki. The information is still accessible through the Wayback Machine:
So perhaps lost in the shufle, I was looking at the chart in the op and it mentions epic Armageddon having alternating activations, are the other editions turn based then?
In Epic 40k the movement phase is IGOUGO (one side moves, then the other moves), but the rest of the phases are alternating activation, starting by initiative.
Interestingly, Epic Space Marine 2nd edition and Titan Legions had IGOUGO for movement and then alternating fire during the combat phases.
But, the community version, NetEpic, introduced alternating movement as well.
I am kind of on the fence about it. The IGOUGO in Epic 2nd was such a massive advantage if you won the initiative and then moved second ("oh, you surrounded by titan with combat units? I'm just going to step through them now" or you could position things on advance to shoot down victorious melee units), but it also sped up the game a lot. So if you were playing mega battles of 6-8000pts or more, I probably still prefer the original rules just to try and get the game finished in a reasonable period of time, even though it does make the game more swingy.
Well AT is super swingy, a lot of it on account of a lot of things coming down to who has the initiative. You also get the tail end problem with alternating activation, being that it's not really alternating as the disparity in activations grow, you get a big tail of of consecutive activations on one side in AT. I could be wrong but I though some edition of epic had some sort of limit on overall activations per side/phase but i could be mistaken.
A mod we only playtested twice from E:A was inspired by the kill team 'overwatch' rule. It was meant to try and help out armies that were out activated as otherwise it drives a lot of army creation.
Had a load of discussion about different options, from a reactive move, to shooting to ultimately a very watered down idea about getting blast markers from units you were operating near. This was scaled back and back and ended up after one army has activated or passed with its last detachment:
In playtest 1, any enemy detachment that wanted to activate within effective range (i.e. in range of a weapon that can fire, so no used up one shot weapons or broken units, and had to have LOS) of the enemy that had activated its last formation received a blast marker and then tried to activate.
Through bad luck this had a surprising impact and also was thought to be another boost to the player that went first as even equal numbers of formations would result in a small unintended boost for them at the end of the round. Discussed moving the blast marker to after movement so it would only affect shooting/CC but still stung about after game 1, went with...
In playtest 2 this was modified to after a formation had activated. So it has moved, shot, etc. This gave a chance to ambush the enemy and wipe them out/break them, and not suffer ay problems. You also got a chance to clear the blast marker in the end phase.
This didn't make that much difference so ended up feeling symbolic. Sadly at that point EA games died off and I haven't played since!
I know the N&R thread is more active, but it tends to go astray and my question is more suited for here:
Although I’m excited about LI, I’m more interested in skewing it more toward the Epic 40k era. The tanks for LI are great, but I’m looking for Imperial Guard (or I guess not-IG or whatever faux Latin they go by now). I don’t have a 3D printer. I currently own nothing for Epic. LI will be my first purchase at that scale (but I’ve been around 40k since Rogue Trader).
I guess the key insight I’m looking for from all you Epic vets is this: with this new 8mm infantry scale, should someone like me wait for the 3rd party market to start cranking out not-Cadians? Or would the current 6mm not-cadians look good next to 8mm marines? Or are they just going to upscale their 6mm to 8mm?
Any guidance would be appreciated, even if it’s, “we’ll have to see, so wait for now.”
Fugazi wrote: I know the N&R thread is more active, but it tends to go astray and my question is more suited for here:
Although I’m excited about LI, I’m more interested in skewing it more toward the Epic 40k era. The tanks for LI are great, but I’m looking for Imperial Guard (or I guess not-IG or whatever faux Latin they go by now). I don’t have a 3D printer. I currently own nothing for Epic. LI will be my first purchase at that scale (but I’ve been around 40k since Rogue Trader).
I guess the key insight I’m looking for from all you Epic vets is this: with this new 8mm infantry scale, should someone like me wait for the 3rd party market to start cranking out not-Cadians? Or would the current 6mm not-cadians look good next to 8mm marines? Or are they just going to upscale their 6mm to 8mm?
Any guidance would be appreciated, even if it’s, “we’ll have to see, so wait for now.”
Vanguard Miniatures should have you covered here. Their 6mm range is closer to 7mm / 7.5mm.
Yes from what we have seen of the people calculating scale of the new miniatures (using known scales of titan bases in the photos and calculating using geometry based off of that, you've got to love the internet community sometimes!) I would say the Vanguard miniatures range will be closer to the new LI range than they are to classic GW Epic (at the risk of starting a war, closer to 8mm than 6mm).
The caveat to that is that metal often gives a finer detail and finer parts than plastic casting, so the new LI imperial army may be bulkier - this is mitigated a bit by them being Solar Auxiliaries wearing heavier armour, so you can explain it that way. And also as a more general point - and I say this after playing many years of Epic on the tabletop with lots of different official minis, 3d prints, 3rd party sculpts. Unless you have miniatures of different scale on the same base, a few mm in height is *not* noticeable at arms length on the tabletop. I say this as someone who has 20/20 vision, and got my eyes tested a few weeks ago
I would have a look at Vanguard as they do proxies of most of the Imperial Guard regiment types: Cadian, jungle fighters, nuclear waste, seige troops etc. I think the Urban troops are the ones which look like a generic sci-fi infantry guy (Cadians).
https://vanguardminiatures.co.uk/product-category/defeat-in-detail-6mm/novan-commonwealth/novan-regulars-troops/ Another thing to consider is that Vanguard tend to be very careful around GW copyright, so some of their stuff will look like a Rhino, a Leman Russ etc. but it won't look exactly like it. I know that is a deal breaker for some, personally I like it as it adds a bit of variety, and TBH most of the Imperial stuff looks like a toy version of 1920s/30s tanks anyway!
For 3D print minis, if you are buying them from Etsy or another printer, the scale can very much vary depending on the design and who is printing it. I have noticed a few have started pushing 10mm now as you can fit more detail on the prints that way (and some of the designs now are ridiculously detailed, probably too much for Epic) so you would need to find one that specifies that they can print at around 7-8mm for a standard height.
Pacific wrote: Yes from what we have seen of the people calculating scale of the new miniatures (using known scales of titan bases in the photos and calculating using geometry based off of that, you've got to love the internet community sometimes!) I would say the Vanguard miniatures range will be closer to the new LI range than they are to classic GW Epic (at the risk of starting a war, closer to 8mm than 6mm).
The caveat to that is that metal often gives a finer detail and finer parts than plastic casting, so the new LI imperial army may be bulkier - this is mitigated a bit by them being Solar Auxiliaries wearing heavier armour, so you can explain it that way. And also as a more general point - and I say this after playing many years of Epic on the tabletop with lots of different official minis, 3d prints, 3rd party sculpts. Unless you have miniatures of different scale on the same base, a few mm in height is *not* noticeable at arms length on the tabletop. I say this as someone who has 20/20 vision, and got my eyes tested a few weeks ago
I would have a look at Vanguard as they do proxies of most of the Imperial Guard regiment types: Cadian, jungle fighters, nuclear waste, seige troops etc. I think the Urban troops are the ones which look like a generic sci-fi infantry guy (Cadians).
https://vanguardminiatures.co.uk/product-category/defeat-in-detail-6mm/novan-commonwealth/novan-regulars-troops/ Another thing to consider is that Vanguard tend to be very careful around GW copyright, so some of their stuff will look like a Rhino, a Leman Russ etc. but it won't look exactly like it. I know that is a deal breaker for some, personally I like it as it adds a bit of variety, and TBH most of the Imperial stuff looks like a toy version of 1920s/30s tanks anyway!
Well, I have lots of Vanguards IG models (siege infantry, Cadian guns crews, etc), and they are tiny and skinny, same size as classic Epic (like the old plastic Valhallans/Catachans).
Interesting. Let me ask you this: is it worth tracking down old Epic minis from the 90s? Or is it better to go with the modern stuff from Vanguard and others? (Let’s assume nostalgia isn’t a factor.)
I guess my concern is the old 90s stuff is too soft in the details, but I haven’t held any in decades.
If nostalgia is not a factor then go for price and taste. The 3rd party sculpts are not rip offs so they look a bit different. The newer stuff is better quality but maybe you prefer how the gw looks or maybe you dont. It's all personal preference.
If nostalgia isn't a factor I would tend to go for either a modern proxy (Vanguard or Onslaught) or 3D prints. Unless you are collecting classic marines, Orks or Eldar (which sold in the 1000s and so are still common) the prices have gone through the roof over recent years. If you do want to go with classics I would recommend joining the Epic Middlehammer FB group, and buy from members of that forum, as you will get ripped off on eBay by a few eBay sharks that you will come to recognise.
Aside from price, I prefer the more dynamic style of the newer proxy infantry in most cases, but I know that's a subjective thing. You'll also be a bit closer in scale to the new LI stuff, if you decide to mix and match when the new game comes along.
There have been quite a few people asking on social media about alternative rulesets to use for their Epic minis, perhaps either to use their new Legions Imperialis collection (perhaps to fight against Alien forces) or they're curious about other rulesets, and it can be quite overwhelming so thought it would be worth giving this thread a bump.
Have also added some links to the first post for these very good 'How to play Epic Armageddon' videos which cover everything from start to finish. They are a little dry but are very comprehensive and would be very good to have on in the background while you are painting your Epic minis https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTNi50g9CUS_IV8XCQD-L0rHmKolu4XhX
Update April 25 - Now that Epic is in the wider gaming public consciousness again with Legions Imperialis I have cut down the far too wordy introduction to the guide and added a link to the new game.
Also added a quick question/responses (which I keep seeing on forums and social media) "I want to use my Legions Imperialis collection to fight Aliens, what should I do?" and added a couple of links for that.
Any more thoughts or suggestions for the guide, please let me know!
Thanks Albertorius, yes absolutely want this to be inclusive!
I have added the links above, also added a link for the Armageddon army list builder (currently not functioning, but was working a few days ago so assuming it is temporarily down).
Pacific wrote: Thanks Albertorius, yes absolutely want this to be inclusive!
I have added the links above, also added a link for the Armageddon army list builder (currently not functioning, but was working a few days ago so assuming it is temporarily down).
