Does the standard SM Land Speeder box come with the Typhoon MLs and Assault cannon, or are they separate. If separate, how do you get all the necessary sprues for all the options?

Side question: Aside from Ravenwing and maybe White Scars, is there a Chapter that is famous for using Land Speeders?

Thanx

You get the MLs and one of each heavy weapon option.

The weapons are all included with the basic kit.

While all chapters make use of the Land Speeder, its a pretty mainstay vehicle, if you're looking for an SM force that would have a greater emphasis on them I'd probably suggest White Scars as the first one to come to mind.

Just make sure you buy a new or current kit - the Land Speeder kit has come in a bunch of different load-outs over the years. Some exceptionally basic, others with all the latest toys. Don't settle for new-in-box unless you know which it is. I'd assume they've had different box art.

What the kit does not come with, are the double heavy Weston options from the index.

Speeders outside of the DA talon master are pretty meh right now competitively, but any chapter can/will use them.

Thanx for the quick replies!
You may have just talked me out of buying an Attack Bike in favor of a Land Speeder. Bigger model and more dakka.

I ask about what Chapter as I will be painting it to match my current project of painting iconic Marines units with their "traditional" units. So I have an Iron Hands Dreadnought, BA Assault Marine, Salamanders with flamers, an UM Rhino chassis Tank (magnetized to also be Razorback or Predator) etc.
Since I already 2 bikes, White Scar and Ravenwing, I kinda want to avoid reusing that scheme, but I make have to if nothing else stands out.

Thanx for the tip about getting a more recent box. I'll likely be ordering from my LGS, so it should be the most recent iteration.
This will also be for my games at home, so competitiveness is less a factor

-

Attack bikes are WAY cheaper, though.

Martel732 wrote:
Attack bikes are WAY cheaper, though.

$27 for 1 Attack Bike or $30 for 1 Land Speeder. I'm I on the wrong GW site?
And in-game, 2 Attack bikes don't have the dakka that 1 Land Speeder gets. I'll also be using Power levels, so it's all good.

-

True, but two attack bikes are harder to kill than one speeder for sure. Truly, all I use them for is to fill out brigades anyway. They're not there to DO anything. Just give CP.

Related question: Would Salamanders make heavy use of Land Speeders? If I remember correctly Nocturne had some sort of shifting-gravity thing going on, which I could see making skimmers a really bad idea. The impression I get from reading about Salamanders is that they tend to be the slow and steady type, and don't tend to use a lot of really fast vehicles.

Because of trading I've ended up with a bunch of Land Speeders, Whirlwinds and dreadnoughts. I was thinking either Salamanders or Iron Hands would be a fluffy army for such a force.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
Related question: Would Salamanders make heavy use of Land Speeders? If I remember correctly Nocturne had some sort of shifting-gravity thing going on, which I could see making skimmers a really bad idea. The impression I get from reading about Salamanders is that they tend to be the slow and steady type, and don't tend to use a lot of really fast vehicles.

Because of trading I've ended up with a bunch of Land Speeders, Whirlwinds and dreadnoughts. I was thinking either Salamanders or Iron Hands would be a fluffy army for such a force.

Funny you should mention Salamanders as they as I may end up painting it that way.

My exist marine collection included 1 Tactical Marine for all 10 legion/chapters that have current rules, plus 1 "special" for each
So I have:
UM tank
IH dread
WS & RW bike
DW & GK termies
BA & RG assault marines

But for Salamanders, I only have a Heavy Flamer/Multi-melta Dev (plus a Tac with flamer) So my Salamander "special" is small compared to the above.
But the same goes for my Imperial & Crimson Fists and Black Templar. The later 2 acting as specials for the former
My Space Wolf special is a Lone Wolf/Wolf Guard on 40mm base with a Fenris wolf

So to fit into my existing project, I can potentially go with Salamanders, Imperial Fists, Templars or Wolves
I rule out wolves since it would require a lot of wolfy add-ons.
I like the Salamander paint scheme the most, so that's probably going to be the winner

BTW, this is the collection so far:


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I've got 75 bucks in real life bets as to how broken the Wolves are gonna be.

Martel732 wrote:
I've got 75 bucks in real life bets as to how broken the Wolves are gonna be.

Agreed. Cuz you just know Russ is gonna get rules

Wolves might cause a hiatus from 8th, even. I can't stand them.

Martel732 wrote:
Wolves might cause a hiatus from 8th, even. I can't stand them.

Are you admitting to discrimination against space furries.
Space furries are marines too, except wolfen and direwolfs and santa sledge and frost weapons.
I really hope that Codex furries isn't OP as it's going to resume the marines are fine arguments all over again.

I hate them and want them squatted. If that's discrimination, then so be it. They are everything wrong with 40K squeezed into one codex.

Martel732 wrote:
I hate them and want them squatted. If that's discrimination, then so be it. They are everything wrong with 40K squeezed into one codex.

WOW. I am well aware of your general hatred of Eldar, but they haven't made you quit yet. So the sheer loathing you have for Wolves must be immense.

-

Martel732 wrote:
Wolves might cause a hiatus from 8th, even. I can't stand them.

But they're such good boys!

Martel732 wrote:
I hate them and want them squatted. If that's discrimination, then so be it. They are everything wrong with 40K squeezed into one codex.

FINALLY something you and I can agree on.

As a 3rd ed SW player who returned for 8th, it’s pretty funny how much Wolfier things got since then.

Martel732 wrote:
I hate them and want them squatted. If that's discrimination, then so be it. They are everything wrong with 40K squeezed into one codex.

Kind of Harsh coming from the bishōnen vampire faction

Getting back on topic: Can a Land Speeder have both Typhoon MLs and Assault cannon, or it is a "pick one of the following".
I'm using the Index and am not sure if the Codex entry is worded differently. But it appear that you get 2 options:
1) Trade the HB for MM
2) Any model may take an AC, TML, HB, HF, or MM

It is the "or" in option 2 that makes me think you can't take 2 of those options at one time.
But I could also see you being able to take any of those options if "or" is written to mean "and/or", which is possible in a series of items

-

It's a "one of the following" thing. Two weapons total. One is the big gun option, the other is a Heavy Bolter you can swap for a MM.

meleti wrote:
It's a "one of the following" thing. Two weapons total. One is the big gun option, the other is a Heavy Bolter you can swap for a MM.

Well that sucks, but makes sense. I was looking forward to having TML, AC and MM. Guess I'll be getting more magnets as my supply is looking a bit low for this project

I may still run a 3 weapon loadout for my games at home. Whoever plays the Marines usually has a uphill battle, which is sad because they have the most vehicles (1 Ven Dread, 1 Razorback/Pred, and soon 1 Land Speeder). But alas, Chaos, Necrons and Eldar are just better, even without army traits and stratagems (which we don't play at home to keep things super simple)

-

In one thread:

SM sux0r coz need BobbyG FTW.

This thread:

Popping wood about the possibility of Wuss Wuss.


Hate to be the bearer of bad news but Russ is not the next Primarch to release.

 Primark G wrote:

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but Russ is not the next Primarch to release.

I really hope that for once you're right!

 Crimson wrote:

 Primark G wrote:

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but Russ is not the next Primarch to release.

I really hope that for once you're right!

Hopefully it's the Lion instead!

 ZergSmasher wrote:

Hopefully it's the Lion instead!

Hopefully there will be no more loyalist Primarchs and they have good sense to shove Guilliman back in the stasis too.

 Primark G wrote:
In one thread:

SM sux0r coz need BobbyG FTW.

This thread:

Popping wood about the possibility of Wuss Wuss.


Hate to be the bearer of bad news but Russ is not the next Primarch to release.

and whats your source on that? that sounds like a pretty strong statement, got an inside source that says otherwise?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
I hate them and want them squatted. If that's discrimination, then so be it. They are everything wrong with 40K squeezed into one codex.

I dislike this so screw all the thousands of people who like it!

 Crimson wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:

Hopefully it's the Lion instead!

Hopefully there will be no more loyalist Primarchs and they have good sense to shove Guilliman back in the stasis too.

They started the arms race by putting Chaos primarchs on the tabletop, though.

Historically the Chaos Primarchs being playable is old news, as they were playable in Epic 40,000 way back in the day. They also made appearances in the lore long after the heresy. The 1st war for Armageddon comes to mind.

What is this heresy? Space Woofs are the bestest!

FWIW they have pruned some of the options like Wolfy Talisman of Wolfiness and some other Fangs of the Wolfy McWolfins. But is it the silly naming and a couple of silly kits that make people dislike or even hate Space Wolves or is it something more implicit? I've played SW since the 2nd and the space viking theme really spoke to me then, silly chapter name notwithstanding...

Anyway, I have two speeders and I'm thinking of turning them into wrecks for terrain. That is how viable they feel at their current state...

A unit of three landspeeders with twin heavy flamers on each model is pretty good at deleting hordes. They have move 20" which makes it easy to get within 8". They can fallback and still autohit.

 Weazel wrote:
What is this heresy? Space Woofs are the bestest!

FWIW they have pruned some of the options like Wolfy Talisman of Wolfiness and some other Fangs of the Wolfy McWolfins. But is it the silly naming and a couple of silly kits that make people dislike or even hate Space Wolves or is it something more implicit? I've played SW since the 2nd and the space viking theme really spoke to me then, silly chapter name notwithstanding...

Anyway, I have two speeders and I'm thinking of turning them into wrecks for terrain. That is how viable they feel at their current state...

Personally for me when they brought out 13th company a nuber of editions back that was the breaking point they went from space Vikings to full space furries. Since then like most bespoke marine codex it's just been marine's with extra rules or better wargear.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Primark G wrote:

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but Russ is not the next Primarch to release.

I really hope that for once you're right!

Hopefully it's the Lion instead!

The Dark Angels Codex is already out isn't it? I wasn't aware the Lion had been released with it.
Point being, the "logical" next Primarch should be Russ as the Wolves Codex has yet to drop. It would make sense to release the next Primarch in the Codex of their Chapter. DAs missed their chance, so Wolves are the next best guess.
If the Wolves Dex drops without Russ, then the Lion has a better chance to be next. Time will tell.

 p5freak wrote:
A unit of three landspeeders with twin heavy flamers on each model is pretty good at deleting hordes. They have move 20" which makes it easy to get within 8". They can fallback and still autohit.

 Weazel wrote:
Anyway, I have two speeders and I'm thinking of turning them into wrecks for terrain. That is how viable they feel at their current state...

Thanx for the heads up. I'm getting the Speeder mostly to further my collection of Marines from all Chapters. I'll only be getting 1 because of this and only play Marines under 50 Power Level against CSM and Necrons in similar Highlander style lists (only 1 of any given unit allowed).

I'm still teaching my kids to play, so our games are already simplified. We don't use WL/army traits and the only Strat we use is to re-roll dice. We also have a house rule that MEQs are 2Ws to beef up the feel of the games.
For the Speeder, it will pretty much just be a gunboat distraction to take fire away from the Razorback and Ven Dread. It's probably not going to hurt our games to allow the Speeder to have 3 weapons, especially since it's likely to only see 1-2 turns of action.
Nevertheless, magnets will be involved.

-

BrianDavion wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
In one thread:

SM sux0r coz need BobbyG FTW.

This thread:

Popping wood about the possibility of Wuss Wuss.


Hate to be the bearer of bad news but Russ is not the next Primarch to release.

and whats your source on that? that sounds like a pretty strong statement, got an inside source that says otherwise?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
I hate them and want them squatted. If that's discrimination, then so be it. They are everything wrong with 40K squeezed into one codex.

I dislike this so screw all the thousands of people who like it!

In this case, I'm willing to throw them under the bus.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Weazel wrote:
What is this heresy? Space Woofs are the bestest!

FWIW they have pruned some of the options like Wolfy Talisman of Wolfiness and some other Fangs of the Wolfy McWolfins. But is it the silly naming and a couple of silly kits that make people dislike or even hate Space Wolves or is it something more implicit? I've played SW since the 2nd and the space viking theme really spoke to me then, silly chapter name notwithstanding...

Anyway, I have two speeders and I'm thinking of turning them into wrecks for terrain. That is how viable they feel at their current state...

SW and all their materials can burn.

 Weazel wrote:
What is this heresy? Space Woofs are the bestest!

FWIW they have pruned some of the options like Wolfy Talisman of Wolfiness and some other Fangs of the Wolfy McWolfins. But is it the silly naming and a couple of silly kits that make people dislike or even hate Space Wolves or is it something more implicit? I've played SW since the 2nd and the space viking theme really spoke to me then, silly chapter name notwithstanding...

Viking theme is OK. Hell, even Wolf theme would be OK if applied in limited quantities. Sadly, SW also get super-speshul ice meltaguns and ice swords (that both sound/look stupid and have OP rules) they refuse to share with anyone else, lots of really stupid units (like that crazy dreadnought that bites enemies to death instead of being put out of its misery and used for proper hero, or santa sleigh), plus one of the greatest, dumbest Mary Sues in 40K, Logan Grimnar.

And that is saying something, because most things people call MS are just plain wrong and slang for "I don't like him", but Logan definitely qualifies - winning war with both Inquisition and Grey Knights at once, somehow surprising and killing GK equivalent of Chapter Master, despite the fact guy was a psyker surrounded by his retinue (also psykers), none of them even twitching before Logan Sue killed their boss with an axe (hilariously enough, that was written when axe was I1 and most of GK weapons described were I6...), and for all of that, he wasn't even punished in any way, despite his reasons to start the war were idiotic to begin with ("protecting" soldiers already corrupted by Khorne) and he destroying his and his chapter's honor in the process...

The only thing worse than Space Wolves are Grey Knights.

What about Grey Wolf Space Knights?

Wolf Knight Space Greys?

I'm getting the Speeder mostly to further my collection of Marines from all Chapters.

Hawk Lords would probably be a speeder, unless you were going to do a entire purple thunder hawk. That doesn’t seem to be what you were looking for, though.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
What about Grey Wolf Space Knights?

Grey Wolf Space Sisters of Ultramarr

There. That should offend everyone.

Toss in Slaanesh and you're good to go.

So I got the kit and am pleasantly surprised at all the options in the kit and just how well it has held up over time. All the chassis pieces fit together perfectly.
So perfectly in fact that I haven't completely glued it together and the sides and top are holding on by themselves with zero gaps.

I'm waiting to glue them until I figure out how to magnetize the Typhoons.
I've seen several tutorials on magnetizing the doors, but I really don't want extra parts lying around and taking up extra magnets.
I think what I will do is glue large magnets behind the main doors (the ones that don't have the holes for the TMLs) and a large magnet on the TMLs with a small pin at the top to fit into a small hole at the handle of the door (to hide the hole). These pins will be to prevent the TMLs from rotating from gravity.

That way I can just glue the main doors in place and the TMLs can just pop on or off. No need to swap with the doors.
The doors intended for the TMLs can then be used as basing wreckage or something.

Is there any reason to magnetize the front gunner? Since I'm using Power level, I don't really see a need to ever take a HB over a MM.
I'll probably still do it in case rules change in the future (Rapid fire 3 HB anyone?)

-

Multi-meltas are mega trash in 8th.

Martel732 wrote:
Multi-meltas are mega trash in 8th.

Only because they cost too much and only have 1 shot (seriously it has 2 friggin barrels, why it is not 2 shots?).
But when using Power Levels, a MM costs the same as a HB. Arguably a MM is far better against its intended targets (large multi-wound models with good armour) than a HB is against its intended targets (1W infantry)

But I agree when using points in Matched play. They really need a points drop AND extra shot. Otherwise 2 regular Meltas are better in every situation.
Add the appropriate salt when you realize 2 Plasmas are better than 2 Meltas in most situations anyway.

-

 Galef wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I hate them and want them squatted. If that's discrimination, then so be it. They are everything wrong with 40K squeezed into one codex.

WOW. I am well aware of your general hatred of Eldar, but they haven't made you quit yet. So the sheer loathing you have for Wolves must be immense.

-

I too loathe space wolves.

Not only because they are just space marines +1 in every edition. They kill the setting IMO. We really didn't need vikings in space.

 Xenomancers wrote:
We really didn't need vikings in space.

But you have to admit, they'd at least be tolerable as Vikings in space as opposed to the Space furries they actually are.

-

 Galef wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
We really didn't need vikings in space.

But you have to admit, they'd at least be tolerable as Vikings in space as opposed to the Space furries they actually are.

-

The Vikings in space thing I love and is brought me into Space Wolves. GW flanderising them into space furries drove me out of them.

 Galef wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
We really didn't need vikings in space.

But you have to admit, they'd at least be tolerable as Vikings in space as opposed to the Space furries they actually are.

-

I'd agree to that. If they lost the super uber duper for-no-reason gear.

Martel732 wrote:

 Galef wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
We really didn't need vikings in space.

But you have to admit, they'd at least be tolerable as Vikings in space as opposed to the Space furries they actually are.

-

I'd agree to that. If they lost the super uber duper for-no-reason gear.

While we're at it we can get rid of BA's uber duper units and DA's better stuff too. Blandness for all!

False equivalence. And for BA, that's removing the captain HQ. That's it. They're already super bland.

How? Apart from having Death Company. And special tanks for some reason. And super special veterans. And the best Chapter Master ever.

pm713 wrote:
How? Apart from having Death Company. And special tanks for some reason. And super special veterans. And the best Chapter Master ever.

Might as well take all that crap out now. It sucks. All of it. But SW stuff will magically be amazing and frag knights in two hits!

BA also have better Assault Marines, better Veterans, better Apothecaries, a unique Predator, and better Dreadnoughts (two of them). Plus unique wargear like hand flamers and better power swords. Those are the BA equivalents to unique SW units.

BA, SW, and DA are all Marines++. That’s just the faction design. BT used to be the same thing, too.

I disagree with a lot of that. The most playable dreads are leviathans and ven dreads. BA don't get ven dreads. The unique predator is unplayable garbage, inferior to a razorback. BA do not have better veterans to my knowledge.

Martel732 wrote:

pm713 wrote:
How? Apart from having Death Company. And special tanks for some reason. And super special veterans. And the best Chapter Master ever.

Might as well take all that crap out now. It sucks. All of it. But SW stuff will magically be amazing and frag knights in two hits!

Oh I forgot. You're mindset is that if it's not OP it essentially doesn't exist. That's a huge chip on your shoulder too.

Martel732 wrote:
I disagree with a lot of that. The most playable dreads are leviathans and ven dreads. BA don't get ven dreads. The unique predator is unplayable garbage, inferior to a razorback. BA do not have better veterans to my knowledge.

You’re missing the point entirely. We’re talking unique units that are improvements from vanilla units, not “OPs”. The better veterans are both jump pack veterans, plus Sanguinary Guard.

I don't care that SW get unique units. I mind that they are almost always the most obnoxious power armor army in the game for arbitrary reasons.

As we can see, unique units that don't function are never used, and so might as well not exist.

Martel732 wrote:
I'd agree to that. If they lost the super uber duper for-no-reason gear.

But I'm sure frost blades will cost a pack of skittles and two-shot Imperial knights. Because Wolf.

 Galef wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
We really didn't need vikings in space.

But you have to admit, they'd at least be tolerable as Vikings in space as opposed to the Space furries they actually are.

-

IDK...Maybe.

It's confusing for me because I actually love wolves. One of my favorite animals. The idea of space marines riding wolves just makes me throw up in my mouth a little bit. I actually like vikings - a very interesting culture that molded Europe into what it is today. Probably the first European culture to colonize the Americas. Still. UGH!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
But I'm sure frost blades will cost a pack of skittles and two-shot Imperial knights. Because Wolf.

It will be something like this.

Relic blade (21 points) WTF? +2 Str -3 AP D3 damage.
Frost blade (17 points) +3 str ap-3 d6 damage (every-time you attack with this weapon you get an additional attack)

 Xenomancers wrote:


It's confusing for me because I actually love wolves. One of my favorite animals. The idea of space marines riding wolves just makes me throw up in my mouth a little bit. I actually like vikings - a very interesting culture that molded Europe into what it is today. Probably the first European culture to colonize the Americas. Still. UGH!

In the days of space ships and tanks, riding any animal feel silly to me. But then everyone in my force wears a helmet, cause they are in a warzone ya know..

Reemule wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:


It's confusing for me because I actually love wolves. One of my favorite animals. The idea of space marines riding wolves just makes me throw up in my mouth a little bit. I actually like vikings - a very interesting culture that molded Europe into what it is today. Probably the first European culture to colonize the Americas. Still. UGH!

In the days of space ships and tanks, riding any animal feel silly to me. But then everyone in my force wears a helmet, cause they are in a warzone ya know..

Same - Even my Gman wears a helmet. I have actually avoided buying armies because their guys don't have helmets.

Martel732 wrote:
I don't care that SW get unique units. I mind that they are almost always the most obnoxious power armor army in the game for arbitrary reasons.

As we can see, unique units that don't function are never used, and so might as well not exist.

That's just incorrect outside your weird bubble.

pm713 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I don't care that SW get unique units. I mind that they are almost always the most obnoxious power armor army in the game for arbitrary reasons.

As we can see, unique units that don't function are never used, and so might as well not exist.

That's just incorrect outside your weird bubble.

No, it really isn't. BA might as well not have SG or DC right now. Because they don't help. In fact, the make your army worse vs just taking more soup.

What was this discussion about

Land Speeders. But someone brought up SW. Way more polarizing than land speeders.

Martel732 wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I don't care that SW get unique units. I mind that they are almost always the most obnoxious power armor army in the game for arbitrary reasons.

As we can see, unique units that don't function are never used, and so might as well not exist.

That's just incorrect outside your weird bubble.

No, it really isn't. BA might as well not have SG or DC right now. Because they don't help. In fact, the make your army worse vs just taking more soup.

Well last I checked some people play this game for fun. So they take things like SG and DC for fun. So they're used. Hence you're wrong.

Martel732 wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I don't care that SW get unique units. I mind that they are almost always the most obnoxious power armor army in the game for arbitrary reasons.

As we can see, unique units that don't function are never used, and so might as well not exist.

That's just incorrect outside your weird bubble.

No, it really isn't. BA might as well not have SG or DC right now. Because they don't help. In fact, the make your army worse vs just taking more soup.

My local BA friend who has spend literally thousands of dollars having his BAs pro-painted and consistently uses SG and DC in his lists every single week would vehemently disagree with you.

I get that you are speaking from a purely competitive standpoint based on your local experience and big tourney results, but you have to see that as only a small portion of ACTUAL players. The majority of 40K players play what they like regardless of "meta"
From this viewpoint, BAs and DAs have far more flavor than regular Marines, as those special units absolutely exist and 100% matter.

 p5freak wrote:
What was this discussion about

Martel732 wrote:
Land Speeders. But someone brought up SW. Way more polarizing than land speeders.

Yeah. My thread got high jacked. But It's ok, this is a fun topic too.

-

Point is that they are unique but bad, instead of unique and obnoxious.

I would disagree strongly that sg and dc matter at all. They were marginal before the faq and now are straight trash.

From what I can tell there seems to be three different (off-topic) arguments being made.
1. Some chapters get special things and others don't.
2. Some of those special things are far too silly.
3. Some of those special things are overpowered.

Of course all three of those are related, so sometimes it can be hard to tell what specifically people are grumbling about.

Martel732 wrote:
Point is that they are unique but bad, instead of unique and obnoxious.

Could you at least wait till the Wolf codex is released before whining about them being OP?

I don't know what else to add about Land Speeders. They're pretty bad, but then again many different SM units are pretty bad.

 Crimson wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Point is that they are unique but bad, instead of unique and obnoxious.

Could you at least wait till the Wolf codex is released before whining about them being OP?

It's never too soon, and they've always been op. So i'm just playing the odds.

Martel732 wrote:
Point is that they are unique but bad, instead of unique and obnoxious.

Fair enough.
Another thing I have personally witnessed far too many times is Space wolf players outright not using their rules properly, often to their advantage.
This may be more of a 7E issue, but for some weird reason, I've seen far more Wolves players basically cheat, albeit not on purpose, than other players.
I attribute this to too many snowflake rules causing confusion, but obnoxious nonetheless.

meleti wrote:
I don't know what else to add about Land Speeders. They're pretty bad, but then again many different SM units are pretty bad.

However, it's a cool model and if using Power Level in small games, I expect 1 could be really fun.
Especially using the Hurricane Pattern LS

-

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
From what I can tell there seems to be three different (off-topic) arguments being made.
1. Some chapters get special things and others don't.
2. Some of those special things are far too silly.
3. Some of those special things are overpowered.

Of course all three of those are related, so sometimes it can be hard to tell what specifically people are grumbling about.

Fair assessment. Silly is fine until you get murdered by it for 20 years lol.

Martel732 wrote:
Point is that they are unique but bad, instead of unique and obnoxious.

I would disagree strongly that sg and dc matter at all. They were marginal before the faq and now are straight trash.

Well you can't spout your opinion about Wolves being obnoxious then turn around and pretend your units don't exist because you don't use them.

They exist, they just don't matter. Remember this thread when the SW RAEG happens.

So BA's special stuff doesn't matter because they're bad but SW's special stuff is wrong and needs to go despite the fact that they're also bad. In fact I know at least one BA unit was flat out better than the SW version. Logic.

The 8th ed SW codex has not lost a single game to BAs since 8th ed started!

That's true, but really hard to say with a straight face.

Ok people - can we move the Martel baiting to another thread? I know it's tradition but we are waaay off topic unless you want to compare SW land speeders versus BA land speeders.

I prefer more tactical seating in my landspeeders. The wolfpelts are impossible to clean in between missions on the battlefield. So I'd rather have a BA Landspeeder. Blood milkshakes disgust me, but you can just hose the spills off the faux-leather.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
Ok people - can we move the Martel baiting to another thread? I know it's tradition but we are waaay off topic unless you want to compare SW land speeders versus BA land speeders.

On that topic, I'm disappointed that SW Land Speeders don't have a 4+ BS just to continue the tradition of all shooty SW fast attack units being pointless.

Do units of Land Speeders stay together or get treated as separate units after deployment? I can't remember.

If they stay together they would be one of the few things that Blitza-Bommers would be effective against. I find Bommers dropping bombs on other flyers hilarious, but too weird so I probably wouldn't do it in a friendly game. Of course there's not a high chance of running into Blitza-Bommers or Land Speeders in a competitive game right now.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
Do units of Land Speeders stay together or get treated as separate units after deployment? I can't remember.

If they stay together they would be one of the few things that Blitza-Bommers would be effective against. I find Bommers dropping bombs on other flyers hilarious, but too weird so I probably wouldn't do it in a friendly game. Of course there's not a high chance of running into Blitza-Bommers or Land Speeders in a competitive game right now.

They stay together.

 Galef wrote:
So I got the kit and am pleasantly surprised at all the options in the kit and just how well it has held up over time. All the chassis pieces fit together perfectly.
So perfectly in fact that I haven't completely glued it together and the sides and top are holding on by themselves with zero gaps.

I just remembered assembling this kit years ago (I've done a lot of commission work over the years) and really don't remember all the options being in the older box, despite being the same model. I also do not remember it being easy to assemble.

Did GW remold Land speeders in the last 5 years?
If so, they did a good job, at least with the box I bought

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Yeah, the missiles are a later addition.

(I'm pretty sure)

The missiles used to be metal, as dud the assault cannon and heavy flamer. They're all integrated into the plastic kit now.

Not great on the table though. Used them once this edition against a guy who told me to take a fun list rather than competetive. I included Land Speeders and Land Raiders, he took two Custodes Telemon dreds. Next time I'll go in with a bit more skepticism.

Love that model Land Speeder model though, old school iconic unit. Bummed that they've removed the double Heavy Flamer and double Heavy Bolter options.

That seems weird. The only reason I can think of for that is that they couldn't be made out of the box...

Back in about 2000’ I had a tornado with typhoon launchers, could be used either or but not both

I currently have both the 2nd ed tornado and a 3rd ed with metal AC and cargo for balance

What edition allowed double of one weapon option?

One reason to take the Heavy Bolter is to pair it with the Typhoon Missile Launcher. That gives the Land Speeder two long range weapons, so it's better at hanging out in the backfield, benefiting from buff auras and trying to not get shot. Speeders are rather fragile, but operating as a unit works to their advantage when to comes to utilizing the command abilities of Captains and Lieutenants, as you only have to keep one Speeder within range of the character.

If you want to magnetize the weapons it's easy enough to do (except for the missile launcher).

 Rybrook wrote:
Back in about 2000’ I had a tornado with typhoon launchers, could be used either or but not both

I currently have both the 2nd ed tornado and a 3rd ed with metal AC and cargo for balance

What edition allowed double of one weapon option?

6th, 7th and Index 8th afaik. Possibly 5th but I don't recall. At some point you could do double Multi-melta, which was neat.

So I was wrong earlier, I didn't think about the index options for a Land Speeder. In 8th edition that leaves you with:

Weapon 1: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Flamer, Multi-Melta
Weapon 2: HB, HF, MM, Assault Cannon, Typhoon Missiles

So you can still take two flamers, or two meltas if you really want.

This post is now by far the most thought I've put into a Land Speeder this edition.

If they could still deep strike I would consider them much more favorable.

 Insectum7 wrote:
If they could still deep strike I would consider them much more favorable.

They also could have had some rule that make them ignore the -1 to hit for moving with heavy weapons. I know that shouldn't be handed out too much (especially since Eldar, the masters of anti-grav tech do not have it) but it just seems lame for a unit that is clearly meant to move has to pretty much act like a Dread and sit still to shoot.

That could have been their "Grav Up-wash" rule instead of the 20" move. 3 LS moving around without to hit penalties for that movement might have been appealing.
Oh well.

I think mine will do fine as it's in a small list with 1 Razorback, 1 Ven Dread, some Marines and a Capt on bike, vs similarly simplified Highlander style lists.
The LS might either be ignored while the enemy list guns for the RB and/or Dread, or it could take some firepower off those 2. Plus it rounds out my "classic" Marine units collection. Win-win!

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 Galef wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
If they could still deep strike I would consider them much more favorable.

They also could have had some rule that make them ignore the -1 to hit for moving with heavy weapons. I know that shouldn't be handed out too much (especially since Eldar, the masters of anti-grav tech do not have it) but it just seems lame for a unit that is clearly meant to move has to pretty much act like a Dread and sit still to shoot.

That could have been their "Grav Up-wash" rule instead of the +4" move. 3 LS moving around without to hit penalties for that movement might have been appealing.

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Yeah this is true. Though moving and shooting from a vehicle seems like something that shouldn't require eldar tech. The eldar should just be able to move much faster and still be accurate.

Kinda feel like all vehicles should all ignore this penalty for moving and shooting. Maybe they should loss the ability to split fire when they do this though. Unless they have a special ability (that things like POTMS and Eldar type techs should allow)

Even though it doesn't always make sense, I do appreciate the simplicity of 90% of units being able to move and shoot with Heavy weapons at -1 to hit.
It is better than prior editions in which Infantry couldn't move at all, and vehicles were never affected by moving.
Having it work the same for everything, minus a few snowflakes here and there, is nice.

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It's really nice to read that Space Wolves are some how magically very powerful!

I have obviously been doing something wrong with my Space Wolves.... because it certaintly doesn't feel like that. Especially the absolutely useless frost weapons.

TWC are a joke, our ven dread is OK but nothing super special. Our characters pretty much are all mediocre/not special.

 Galef wrote:
Even though it doesn't always make sense, I do appreciate the simplicity of 90% of units being able to move and shoot with Heavy weapons at -1 to hit.
It is better than prior editions in which Infantry couldn't move at all, and vehicles were never affected by moving.
Having it work the same for everything, minus a few snowflakes here and there, is nice.

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I don't mind it either. I do think that there are some that if it is going to be that way, the points cost should reflect that. Like Landspeeders with double Multi Melta. You have 2 shots with a 50/50 to hit when you move. They shouldn't be 124 points. I'd place them in the 80 point range for effectiveness. And I would think some might feel I'm being generous there.

Reemule wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Even though it doesn't always make sense, I do appreciate the simplicity of 90% of units being able to move and shoot with Heavy weapons at -1 to hit.
It is better than prior editions in which Infantry couldn't move at all, and vehicles were never affected by moving.
Having it work the same for everything, minus a few snowflakes here and there, is nice.

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I don't mind it either. I do think that there are some that if it is going to be that way, the points cost should reflect that. Like Landspeeders with double Multi Melta. You have 2 shots with a 50/50 to hit when you move. They shouldn't be 124 points. I'd place them in the 80 point range for effectiveness. And I would think some might feel I'm being generous there.

I also kinda feel part of the problem with that particular setup is that MMs are just not worth their points. They should either be half the cost, or double the shots. Either option would make a 2MM LS a better option. I very much would prefer MMs have 2 shots each since the model has 2 barrels.
4 shots, even with 50/50 to hit, is still pretty decent, especially since a LS can easily get within Melta range.

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I feel changing the stats on the MM are a much bigger issue than fixing the models cost in re-pointing stuff in the CA at end of year.

If you go though and change the cost of MM on stuff like Devestators, and Land speeders, it avoids the need to try to change it on a few places it does work, like the Land Raider Crusader. (IMHO)

Reemule wrote:
I feel changing the stats on the MM are a much bigger issue than fixing the models cost in re-pointing stuff in the CA at end of year.

If you go though and change the cost of MM on stuff like Devestators, and Land speeders, it avoids the need to try to change it on a few places it does work, like the Land Raider Crusader. (IMHO)

The Land Raider doesn't work in the first place...so why would the Multi Melta work on it?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

The Land Raider doesn't work in the first place...so why would the Multi Melta work on it?

It might not be perfect, but it is probably one of the better places to take a MM these days. Them and the Stormraven. They have PotMS, so can move to get into range without the -1. A cargo capacity filled with things that want to move close, and with the LRC/LRR, other close range guns.

Might not be the min/max choice, but if you want to field a MM, on top of a LR is probably your best bet.

Attack bikes can get a Chapter Tactic while a Landspeeder cannot. That sells the attack bikes IMO.

 Nevelon wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

The Land Raider doesn't work in the first place...so why would the Multi Melta work on it?

It might not be perfect, but it is probably one of the better places to take a MM these days. Them and the Stormraven. They have PotMS, so can move to get into range without the -1. A cargo capacity filled with things that want to move close, and with the LRC/LRR, other close range guns.

Might not be the min/max choice, but if you want to field a MM, on top of a LR is probably your best bet.

Not when you get more of them for less on other platforms. Ignoring the -1 to hit cannot fix the ghastly price on them AND the Land Raider platform.

If I built a land speeder, I would most defenetly build a twin heavy flamer one. It's sole purpose would be to harrass units like genestealers. With fast movement it could likely shoot both in my turn and in overwatch. In case of miraculous survival, keword fly allows it to disengage and flame again. Seems good enough to me. since flamers auto hit, heavy penalty is not a problem. The other weapon options for it seems less appealing.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Attack bikes can get a Chapter Tactic while a Landspeeder cannot. That sells the attack bikes IMO.

Fair enough. And Attack bikes can be part of regular bike units, essentially giving then more protection.

But for my purposes, Chapter Tactics and other army Traits will not be used. The scale of the games I play with my kids is very small both in points/power level and in pared down rules.
And from a monetary stand point, a LS is a far better "deal" than an Attack bike. $3 more for extra wounds and far more weapon choices. It's also a decent distraction unit to take fire away from the Razorback/Dread it will be accompanying.

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