If you use webway infiltration on some rubric marines they can't arrive til turn 2 unless it's in your own deployment zone. If you bring them down in your own deployment zone at the end of your first movement phase can you then use the dark matter crystal to move them again anywhere on the battlefield 9" away from an enemy model? Essentially giving your rubrics a turn 1 deepstrike anywhere
ravenerioli wrote: If you use webway infiltration on some rubric marines they can't arrive til turn 2 unless it's in your own deployment zone. If you bring them down in your own deployment zone at the end of your first movement phase can you then use the dark matter crystal to move them again anywhere on the battlefield 9" away from an enemy model? Essentially giving your rubrics a turn 1 deepstrike anywhere
The restriction to arriving in your own deployment zone is for units placed in tactical reserves from the big faq.
Dark matter crystal, gate, da jump, etc are not being used on units that were deployed to tactical reserves so rules covering units arriving from tactical reserves(the big faq rule on your own deployment zone) does not apply to them.
blaktoof wrote: The restriction to arriving in your own deployment zone is for units placed in tactical reserves from the big faq.
Not true in the slightest. Firstly, there is no such thing as "placed in tactical reserves". Secondly, the rule applies to ANY units arriving as Reinforcements, which both RaW and by FAQ includes "teleport" effects.
The rule specifically states it modifies tactical reserves.
Units using the gate, dark matter crystal, etc do not go I to tactical reserves and then get placed back out of it. There are no actual rules or stating that they do.
The heading of the rule you are quoting is Tactical reserves. It's is a rulefor units deployed to tactical reserves. Is an unit that starts on the table in tactical reserves?
blaktoof wrote: The rule specifically states it modifies tactical reserves.
Units using the gate, dark matter crystal, etc do not go I to tactical reserves and then get placed back out of it. There are no actual rules or stating that they do.
The heading of the rule you are quoting is Tactical reserves. It's is a rulefor units deployed to tactical reserves. Is an unit that starts on the table in tactical reserves?
Please, show me any rule on a units datasheet that says they are "deployed to tactical reserves". Page number and Book title please.
The beta rule currently says "Furthermore, in matched play games, any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player’s first turn must be deployed wholly within the controlling player’s deployment zone (even if its ability would normally let it be set up anywhere)." Dark Matter crystal lets the unit "be set up anywhere", thus is restricted by the rule, because the unit is "arriv[ing] on the battlefield" as reinforcements as stated by RaW and FAQ.
Gw specifically stated that rules such as the Da Jump psychic power can be used to bypass the turn 1 deployment zone restriction. Not sure whose argument that helps.
It would help if you would post the rule in question in its entirety so that it can be interpreted better for those who do not know what it does exactly.
mhalko1 wrote: Gw specifically stated that rules such as the Da Jump psychic power can be used to bypass the turn 1 deployment zone restriction.
Can you please show me where in the Rulebooks, Codexes or FAQ/Errata for those books this "specific statement" is made? I have read them all and cannot seem to find it.
The beta rules you are quoting is under the title for what it is a rule for.
That title, from the big faq is...
Tactical reserves.
The big faq errated tactical reserves to that text instead of the text in the brb. The rule you are quoting are rules only found under tactical reserves.
Further from the same big faq if you read the errata before it specifically states tactical reserves:
"The ability to arrive on the battlefield mid-game has always been powerful, enabling units ..., and so during the first battle round, such units can only be set up within their own deployment
zone."
So I realize you are ignoring the actual title of the rules you are qouting, which is Tactical Reserves, to make your argument because then you can apply it to anything and make your invalid point valid.
Given the above actual verbatim from the same big faq, which you seem to not have read..., It applies to tactical reserves, tactical reserves allows units to arrive mid game(past deployment), and it affects units in tactical reserves.
If you read the BRB for matched play mission it will tell you how tactical reserves works- units that can be setup somewhere other than the battlefield/table. if you see on a datasheet an unit can be setup somewhere else during deployment, regardless of where that somewhere else is, according to the brb that is tactical reserves.
The big faq erratts for tactical reserves applies to tactical reserves.
For people who have a hard time with that there is a large block of text before that wherein the people writing the rules tell us it applies to those units in tactical reserves that arrive to the table mid game.
Did an unit of tzangors arrive to the table mid game or at deployment if it was deployed to the table?
If it arrived at deployment then it can use dark matter crystal turn 1 to go places outside of the deployment zone but with the limitations of dark matter crystal, because the big faq rules for tactical reserves do not apply to it.
If it did not arrive to the table during deployment it likely arrived midgame and is tactical reserves.
mhalko1 wrote: Gw specifically stated that rules such as the Da Jump psychic power can be used to bypass the turn 1 deployment zone restriction.
Can you please show me where in the Rulebooks, Codexes or FAQ/Errata for those books this "specific statement" is made? I have read them all and cannot seem to find it.
It's not in any formal rules source. The community team released it as a big picture with the comment "we spoke with the designers."
So, it does not exist in a formal rules capacity, but, in any tournament, it is the rule. GW really dropped the ball on releasing that specific errata.
mhalko1 wrote: Gw specifically stated that rules such as the Da Jump psychic power can be used to bypass the turn 1 deployment zone restriction.
Can you please show me where in the Rulebooks, Codexes or FAQ/Errata for those books this "specific statement" is made? I have read them all and cannot seem to find it.
It's not in any formal rules source. The community team released it as a big picture with the comment "we spoke with the designers."
So, it does not exist in a formal rules capacity, but, in any tournament, it is the rule. GW really dropped the ball on releasing that specific errata.
I see. If I am understanding you correctly, you're saying that things not in the rulebook are rules. If I made a gif saying "People with names beginning with B automatically win." would you consider that rules too? Also, saying "any tournament" is a misnomer because I am running a tournament right now and that is not the case, so you're provably wrong. Also, also, Tournament House rules have no bearing on what the actual rules are.
@blaktoof The name of a rule is irrelevant, what matters is what the rule says. I quoted what the rule says, so please stop trying to appeal to authority and instead argue in good faith.
@baconcatbug. I see ignoring written rules allows for your invalid rule to exist, therefore you will ignore the written rules and the officially published commentary on said written rule.
Shooting says I compare the weapons stength to the targets roughness and make a roll, obviously I can make that roll during deployment despite it being a rule for the shooting phase.
Show permission to apply rules for tactical reserves to units not in tactical reserves(deployed somewhere other than the table during deployment) or a rule stating that rules text under the title of the rule default apply to everything outside of the title or you have no valid point.
It comes down to GW having made it known so that if anybody wants to play it RAI then they can do so. To fix it by RAW they actually need to get around to FAQing their Big FAQ.
blaktoof wrote: @baconcatbug. I see ignoring written rules allows for your invalid rule to exist, therefore you will ignore the written rules and the officially published commentary on said written rule.
Shooting says I compare the weapons stength to the targets roughness and make a roll, obviously I can make that roll during deployment despite it being a rule for the shooting phase.
Show permission to apply rules for tactical reserves to units not in tactical reserves(deployed somewhere other than the table during deployment) or a rule stating that rules text under the title of the rule default apply to everything outside of the title or you have no valid point.
You need to first show that "in tactical reserves" is a thing.
blaktoof wrote: @baconcatbug. I see ignoring written rules allows for your invalid rule to exist, therefore you will ignore the written rules and the officially published commentary on said written rule.
Shooting says I compare the weapons stength to the targets roughness and make a roll, obviously I can make that roll during deployment despite it being a rule for the shooting phase.
Show permission to apply rules for tactical reserves to units not in tactical reserves(deployed somewhere other than the table during deployment) or a rule stating that rules text under the title of the rule default apply to everything outside of the title or you have no valid point.
You need to first show that "in tactical reserves" is a thing.
blaktoof wrote: @baconcatbug. I see ignoring written rules allows for your invalid rule to exist, therefore you will ignore the written rules and the officially published commentary on said written rule.
Shooting says I compare the weapons stength to the targets roughness and make a roll, obviously I can make that roll during deployment despite it being a rule for the shooting phase.
Show permission to apply rules for tactical reserves to units not in tactical reserves(deployed somewhere other than the table during deployment) or a rule stating that rules text under the title of the rule default apply to everything outside of the title or you have no valid point.
You need to first show that "in tactical reserves" is a thing.
Done above already.
Except you haven't. You have not shown there is a state, status or place called "Tactical Reserves" anywhere in the rulebooks, codexes or errata. You're literally making up rules where they don't exist.
So your argument is that p.215 that lists the "matched play rules" one of which is tactical reserves, and then as already pointed out is when units setup "somewhere other than the battlefield during deployment"
Ie any unit that has any rule that let's it setup to not the battlefield during deployment= tactical reserves from it's own stated rules.
Does not exist and are not rules.
Interesting.
Per the actual rules, units are either setup on the battlefield at deployment, or somewhere else. All somewhere else's are tactical reserves.
Units setup to the battlefield during deployment are not tactical reserves per the actual rules of the game on p.215.
The big faq errattas the tactical reserves rule, and is in effect solely for units not deployed to the battlefield during deployment-aka from the written rules tactical reserves.
Tactical reserves isn't not a specific place, it is all forms of being deployed to any place other than the battlefield during deployment.
blaktoof wrote: So your argument is that p.215 that lists the "matched play rules" one of which is tactical reserves, and then as already pointed out is when units setup "somewhere other than the battlefield during deployment"
Ie any unit that has any rule that let's it setup to not the battlefield during deployment= tactical reserves from it's own stated rules.
Does not exist and are not rules.
Interesting.
Units that "Deploy in a teleportarium" are not in "Tactical Reserves", they are in a teleportarium. GW could have kept a single word/place for reserves, but they didn't because 8th edition logic. So, no, there isn't a place called "Tactical Reserves" that a unit can be in. What you are claiming is never stated.
It's clear we differ in philosophy. I am a RaW purist, I follow the rules as written. You're an "intent" person, so you play the rules as however you want them to be. You're free to play like that, just don't expect the majority of people (those who follow the rules) to agree with you.
mhalko1 wrote: Gw specifically stated that rules such as the Da Jump psychic power can be used to bypass the turn 1 deployment zone restriction.
Can you please show me where in the Rulebooks, Codexes or FAQ/Errata for those books this "specific statement" is made? I have read them all and cannot seem to find it.
It's not in any formal rules source. The community team released it as a big picture with the comment "we spoke with the designers."
So, it does not exist in a formal rules capacity, but, in any tournament, it is the rule. GW really dropped the ball on releasing that specific errata.
I see. If I am understanding you correctly, you're saying that things not in the rulebook are rules. If I made a gif saying "People with names beginning with B automatically win." would you consider that rules too? Also, saying "any tournament" is a misnomer because I am running a tournament right now and that is not the case, so you're provably wrong. Also, also, Tournament House rules have no bearing on what the actual rules are.
True, if you host your own tournament you can make any rule you want. But, in major ITC events, it is allowed, which is why it has become the standard. Rule or not. We agree that it is not a formal rule. What i'm saying is that generally in practice, this kind of deep strike is allowed.
Marmatag wrote: True, if you host your own tournament you can make any rule you want. But, in major ITC events, it is allowed, which is why it has become the standard. Rule or not. We agree that it is not a formal rule. What i'm saying is that generally in practice, this kind of deep strike is allowed.
That's not how it works. That's not how any of this works. An ITC house rule is just that, a house rule.
blaktoof wrote: So your argument is that p.215 that lists the "matched play rules" one of which is tactical reserves, and then as already pointed out is when units setup "somewhere other than the battlefield during deployment"
Ie any unit that has any rule that let's it setup to not the battlefield during deployment= tactical reserves from it's own stated rules.
Does not exist and are not rules.
Interesting.
Units that "Deploy in a teleportarium" are not in "Tactical Reserves", they are in a teleportarium. GW could have kept a single word/place for reserves, but they didn't because 8th edition logic. So, no, there isn't a place called "Tactical Reserves" that a unit can be in. What you are claiming is never stated.
It's clear we differ in philosophy. I am a RaW purist, I follow the rules as written. You're an "intent" person, so you play the rules as however you want them to be. You're free to play like that, just don't expect the majority of people (those who follow the rules) to agree with you.
This is not an issue of RAW purism, you are ignoring that being deployed Ina teleportorium during deployment is being deployed somewhere other than the battlefield. The specific language used in tactical reserves.
Said units are deployed elsewhere than the battlefield to arrive midgame, the specific language used by tactical reserves in the big faq.
Any unit deployed somewhere else than the battlefield during deployment is invoking the rules for tactical reserves for that unit which from the BRBraw goverrns how many such units can be deployed not to the battlefield, and per the big faq where they can arrive on turn 1 if you choose to deploy them to the battlefield mid game.
The rules for tactical reserves do not affect units deployed to the battlefield during deployment per previously mentioned the text from the big faq.
You can claim you are a RAW purist, but you are not actually following the RAW for what rules are invoked for units deployed to somewhere other than the battlefield during deployment, and are instead trying g to claim that is a general rule that affects all units- which simy from the rules as weitten can only be the case if you ignore portions of the rules for tactical reserves to: firstly remove tactical reserves as a set of rules governing models not deployed to the battlefield during deployment, and secondly by removing the first blanketly applying it to all units.
blaktoof wrote: This is not an issue of RAW purism, you are ignoring that being deployed Ina teleportorium during deployment is being deployed somewhere other than the battlefield. The specific language used in tactical reserves.
Said units are deployed elsewhere than the battlefield to arrive midgame, the specific language used by tactical reserves in the big faq.
No, what you are ignoring is the fact the rule is broken into two distinct sections.
This is the rule
Furthermore, in matched play games, any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player’s first turn must be deployed wholly within the controlling player’s deployment zone (even if its ability would normally let it be set up anywhere).
If a unit is removed from the battlefield, to be set up again, it arrives on the battlefield. Or are you saying that when you remove a unit from the battlefield it stays on the battlefield?
Da Jump says:
Remove this unit from the battlefield, and then set it up anywhere on the battlefield more than 9" from any enemy models.
It literally says to remove the unit from the battlefield. If it doesn't arrive onto the battlefield when you set it up, then it can't be on the battlefield, can it?
The second section is not a separate rule, . The big faq it is even contained within the same box as the rest of the rules for Tactical reserves.
As pointed out your arguement is based solely on it being distinctly separate from tactical reserves so that you can apply it to units that are setup on the battlefield during deployment. However it is not a separate I dividual rule, it is a rule that applies to tactical reserves, pointed out as being within the some boxed region as the other tactical reserves rules, and pointed out in the written commentary proceeding the erratted tactical reserves rules in the big faq.
blaktoof wrote: The second section is not a separate rule, . The big faq it is even contained within the same box as the rest of the rules for Tactical reserves.
As pointed out your arguement is based solely on it being distinctly separate from tactical reserves so that you can apply it to units that are setup on the battlefield our bg deployment.
It is the same rule, but the rule itself applies to all instances of units arriving, not just those that deployed elsewhere. Again, if a rule tells you to literally remove the unit from a battlefield, how can it do anything unless it arrives back to the battlefield?
Anyway, I'm going to take the high road and leave it at that. You're free to make up whatever house rules you want, but the rules are crystal clear whether you like it or not.
blaktoof wrote: The second section is not a separate rule, . The big faq it is even contained within the same box as the rest of the rules for Tactical reserves.
As pointed out your arguement is based solely on it being distinctly separate from tactical reserves so that you can apply it to units that are setup on the battlefield our bg deployment.
It is the same rule, but the rule itself applies to all instances of units arriving, not just those that deployed elsewhere. Again, if a rule tells you to literally remove the unit from a battlefield, how can it do anything unless it arrives back to the battlefield?
Anyway, I'm going to take the high road and leave it at that. You're free to make up whatever house rules you want, but the rules are crystal clear whether you like it or not.
The rules are for tactical reserves, not arriving units.
The rules commentary in the big faq even states the rules are for units placed in tactical reserves, units which arrive mid game.
It has nothing to do with da jump, dark matter crystal, gate, unless said units arrived to the table during the turn said relic/power is bring used and that turn is turn 1.
GW even made a questionably official document with images referencing the actual rules as written for people who have a hard time with what it meant. They likely should have included it in the big faq, for people who had a hard time determine that rules for tactical reserves are applying to units using the tactical reserves rules.
I think it's great you are running an event for the hobby. I am sure many people are fine with your house rule that rules for tactical reserves apply to instances outside of tactical reserves however it is not my cup of early grey.
I wish you the best of luck, and I sincerely like your avatar.
mhalko1 wrote: Gw specifically stated that rules such as the Da Jump psychic power can be used to bypass the turn 1 deployment zone restriction.
Can you please show me where in the Rulebooks, Codexes or FAQ/Errata for those books this "specific statement" is made? I have read them all and cannot seem to find it.
It's not in any formal rules source. The community team released it as a big picture with the comment "we spoke with the designers."
So, it does not exist in a formal rules capacity, but, in any tournament, it is the rule. GW really dropped the ball on releasing that specific errata.
Except they then said there that IS official.
Like it or not GW has decided their FB IS official source for rules. Lousy policy typical for the amateur work that GW is but that's the way we play. GW puts rule clarification on FB=that IS now official. Don't like it? tough. Prepare to carry links for FB posts and even their comments.
Very annoying as now as I have found out on tournaments you can run into arqument and would take like half a minute for GW to do it properly but hey GW isn't professional game design company so no surprise they do it like the amateurs they are.
Here are the Big Faq tactical reserves beta rule followed by the GW facebook post. Now many people consider the facebook post unofficial however. Gw has chosen to use facebook as one of their mediums for various aspects. Therefore it must be taken as official. That then leads to the technically it is a beta rule so you and your opponent must agree on how to proceed with the beta rules.
And again, Facebook is not rules. Random pictures created by interns are not rules. You are free to pretend as such. I'll keep on playing by the rules.
BaconCatBug wrote: And again, Facebook is not rules. Random pictures created by interns are not rules. You are free to pretend as such. I'll keep on playing by the rules.
It certainly looks like a rules clarification, issued by Games Workshop. It's your prerogative to treat is as not rules, as it hasn't been published where they keep the FAQs, but it's enough for many people seeing it to accept what the intention of the new rule is.
What's interesting is that even if you use this FAQ, technically you couldn't use Webway Infiltration and then the Dark Matter Crystal. What was posted on Facebook says "but this rule doesn't apply to any units that are set up during deployment". It does NOT say "this rule doesn't apply to any units that have been set up". They did not give any examples of a unit that arrived from reinforcements during the first turn and then used an ability, psychic power, stratagem or whatever to be moved out of the deployment zone. According to what this says, you can only apply those to units that were set up during deployment. So, examples like da Jump are fine if the units involved started the game on the board, but it would not apply to units not set up during deployment but are having their (initial) set up during turn 1.
BaconCatBug wrote: And again, Facebook is not rules. Random pictures created by interns are not rules. You are free to pretend as such. I'll keep on playing by the rules.
It certainly looks like a rules clarification, issued by Games Workshop. It's your prerogative to treat is as not rules, as it hasn't been published where they keep the FAQs, but it's enough for many people seeing it to accept what the intention of the new rule is.
What's interesting is that even if you use this FAQ, technically you couldn't use Webway Infiltration and then the Dark Matter Crystal. What was posted on Facebook says "but this rule doesn't apply to any units that are set up during deployment". It does NOT say "this rule doesn't apply to any units that have been set up". They did not give any examples of a unit that arrived from reinforcements during the first turn and then used an ability, psychic power, stratagem or whatever to be moved out of the deployment zone. According to what this says, you can only apply those to units that were set up during deployment. So, examples like da Jump are fine if the units involved started the game on the board, but it would not apply to units not set up during deployment but are having their (initial) set up during turn 1.
Ok so by that logic if I make a facebook post saying "All people who have a name beginning with B automatically win" on it and slap the GW logo on it, that's rules? Call me old fashioned, but to me only the Rulebooks, Codexes and FAQ/Errata for them are rules.
BaconCatBug wrote: And again, Facebook is not rules. Random pictures created by interns are not rules. You are free to pretend as such. I'll keep on playing by the rules.
It certainly looks like a rules clarification, issued by Games Workshop. It's your prerogative to treat is as not rules, as it hasn't been published where they keep the FAQs, but it's enough for many people seeing it to accept what the intention of the new rule is.
What's interesting is that even if you use this FAQ, technically you couldn't use Webway Infiltration and then the Dark Matter Crystal. What was posted on Facebook says "but this rule doesn't apply to any units that are set up during deployment". It does NOT say "this rule doesn't apply to any units that have been set up". They did not give any examples of a unit that arrived from reinforcements during the first turn and then used an ability, psychic power, stratagem or whatever to be moved out of the deployment zone. According to what this says, you can only apply those to units that were set up during deployment. So, examples like da Jump are fine if the units involved started the game on the board, but it would not apply to units not set up during deployment but are having their (initial) set up during turn 1.
Ok so by that logic if I make a facebook post saying "All people who have a name beginning with B automatically win" on it and slap the GW logo on it, that's rules? Call me old fashioned, but to me only the Rulebooks, Codexes and FAQ/Errata for them are rules.
If you do it from GW's official facebook account. Yes. Coincidentally, just last week I started spelling my name with a silent 'B'. It's now bJoshua.
BaconCatBug wrote: And again, Facebook is not rules. Random pictures created by interns are not rules. You are free to pretend as such. I'll keep on playing by the rules.
It certainly looks like a rules clarification, issued by Games Workshop. It's your prerogative to treat is as not rules, as it hasn't been published where they keep the FAQs, but it's enough for many people seeing it to accept what the intention of the new rule is.
What's interesting is that even if you use this FAQ, technically you couldn't use Webway Infiltration and then the Dark Matter Crystal. What was posted on Facebook says "but this rule doesn't apply to any units that are set up during deployment". It does NOT say "this rule doesn't apply to any units that have been set up". They did not give any examples of a unit that arrived from reinforcements during the first turn and then used an ability, psychic power, stratagem or whatever to be moved out of the deployment zone. According to what this says, you can only apply those to units that were set up during deployment. So, examples like da Jump are fine if the units involved started the game on the board, but it would not apply to units not set up during deployment but are having their (initial) set up during turn 1.
Ok so by that logic if I make a facebook post saying "All people who have a name beginning with B automatically win" on it and slap the GW logo on it, that's rules? Call me old fashioned, but to me only the Rulebooks, Codexes and FAQ/Errata for them are rules.
It's rules if you get GW to post it on their Facebook page. though (as I said before) "unofficial" rules in that they're not posted in the FAQ section. Just making a random page? No. We're talking about pages that GW posts on their facebook site though, that's different from just a random person making up their own kaka.
EDIT: Has not read deviantduck's reply before posting - Ninja'd!
doctortom wrote: No. We're talking about pages that GW posts on their facebook site though, that's different from just a random person making up their own kaka.
And this is where we fundamentally disagree. Some random social media intern posting on Facebook/MySpace/Twitter/Instagram is not rules, any more than me making a picture in MS paint is rules.
Yes, we disagree. The people running the GW Facebook page aren't just "some random social media intern", they are representing the company when they post on Facebook. It's not just some yobbo at Billy Bob's 40K Emporium And Bait Shop putting up a post on their own website and trying to claim it's an official GW post.
doctortom wrote: Yes, we disagree. The people running the GW Facebook page aren't just "some random social media intern", they are representing the company when they post on Facebook. It's not just some yobbo at Billy Bob's 40K Emporium And Bait Shop putting up a post on their own website and trying to claim it's an official GW post.
Why bother playing by ANY of the rules if you're going to just ignore the ones you don't like? If you want free-form nonsense you have D&D for that. This is a board game with a set of rules to follow.
doctortom wrote: Yes, we disagree. The people running the GW Facebook page aren't just "some random social media intern", they are representing the company when they post on Facebook. It's not just some yobbo at Billy Bob's 40K Emporium And Bait Shop putting up a post on their own website and trying to claim it's an official GW post.
Why bother playing by ANY of the rules if you're going to just ignore the ones you don't like? If you want free-form nonsense you have D&D for that. This is a board game with a set of rules to follow.
You lost me on this one. What rule is Dr bTom ignoring? If anything you're ignoring the legitimate GWFB post that cites examples of how the new beta rules work.
doctortom wrote: Yes, we disagree. The people running the GW Facebook page aren't just "some random social media intern", they are representing the company when they post on Facebook. It's not just some yobbo at Billy Bob's 40K Emporium And Bait Shop putting up a post on their own website and trying to claim it's an official GW post.
Why bother playing by ANY of the rules if you're going to just ignore the ones you don't like? If you want free-form nonsense you have D&D for that. This is a board game with a set of rules to follow.
You lost me on this one. What rule is Dr bTom ignoring? If anything you're ignoring the legitimate GWFB post that cites examples of how the new beta rules work.
Again, Facebook is NOT RULES. I don't know how much clearer I can get on that. The Facebook page LITERALLY says it's not rules.
doctortom wrote: Yes, we disagree. The people running the GW Facebook page aren't just "some random social media intern", they are representing the company when they post on Facebook. It's not just some yobbo at Billy Bob's 40K Emporium And Bait Shop putting up a post on their own website and trying to claim it's an official GW post.
Why bother playing by ANY of the rules if you're going to just ignore the ones you don't like? If you want free-form nonsense you have D&D for that. This is a board game with a set of rules to follow.
That's a disingenuous statement. Accepting statements clarifying rules that the company who makes the game puts out on their own Facebook page is not suddenly ignoring the rules I don't like and wanting "free-form nonsense". You are not helping your argument one iota by making such comparisons. I am following rules, and I'm not the one putting his fingers in his ears going "Na na na na na I can't HEAR you!" when the company is telling us how one of its rules work. You might not like how the rule is disseminated (and quite frankly that is a flaw that GW has that they need to address, these things should be quickly put up on the FAQ page as well), but there are many people willing to take GW's statements about their rules as how they work, and play them that way. I doubt you'll see many, if any, major tournaments not following the rules as they clarified.
The issue with the Facebook post is some people think that the post is an additional errata, or clarification. It is just giving examples of results of the rules as written for the errata.
It is true that Facebook has not officially been called an official rules source, but it is disenginous to state that the Facebook post is an eratta of the big faq and is a new set of rules. The examples from the Facebook quote are all valid from the erratta without the Facebook post.
blaktoof wrote: The issue with the Facebook post is some people think that the post is an additional errata, or clarification. It is just giving examples of results of the rules as written for the errata
Which is funny because RaW Da Jump is affected, so the Facebook page is actually wrong. GW getting their own rules wrong when asked? Did I time travel to 1993 and asked the Roolz Boyz again?
blaktoof wrote: The issue with the Facebook post is some people think that the post is an additional errata, or clarification. It is just giving examples of results of the rules as written for the errata
Which is funny because RaW Da Jump is affected, so the Facebook page is actually wrong. GW getting their own rules wrong when asked? Did I time travel to 1993 and asked the Roolz Boyz again?
Everything you said is simply untrue unless you try to apply the tactical reserves rules to units that are not using tactical reserves.
blaktoof wrote: The issue with the Facebook post is some people think that the post is an additional errata, or clarification. It is just giving examples of results of the rules as written for the errata
Which is funny because RaW Da Jump is affected, so the Facebook page is actually wrong. GW getting their own rules wrong when asked? Did I time travel to 1993 and asked the Roolz Boyz again?
Everything you said is simply untrue unless you try to apply the tactical reserves rules to units that are not using tactical reserves.
Everything I said is true because the beta Tactical Reserves rule applies to ANY unit that arrives onto the battlefield, not just those that were deployed elsewhere.
blaktoof wrote: The issue with the Facebook post is some people think that the post is an additional errata, or clarification. It is just giving examples of results of the rules as written for the errata
Which is funny because RaW Da Jump is affected, so the Facebook page is actually wrong. GW getting their own rules wrong when asked? Did I time travel to 1993 and asked the Roolz Boyz again?
Everything you said is simply untrue unless you try to apply the tactical reserves rules to units that are not using tactical reserves.
Everything I said is true because the beta Tactical Reserves rule applies to ANY unit that arrives onto the battlefield, not just those that were deployed elsewhere.
Not according to the actual rules as written, or the comments about the rules by the people who write the rules preceeding it in the big faq, or the marketing piece on Facebook listing some types of units unaffected and affected by said rules.
The rule has always been clear things like Da Jump, GoI etc
As stated in the info graphic the tactical reserves beta rule effects units that have not yet deployed. Units that have already started on the table (ie - arrived) are not affected by the rule.
To answer Raven's question RAW yes you can place units elsewhere on the board as long as they have already arrived on the table.
As stated in the info graphic the tactical reserves beta rule effects units that have not yet deployed. Units that have already started on the table (ie - arrived) are not affected by the rule.
To answer Raven's question RAW yes you can place units elsewhere on the board as long as they have already arrived on the table.
That's RAW according to Facebook. Which I accept, but it's sill not good practice. They should do an actual FAQ.
blaktoof wrote: The issue with the Facebook post is some people think that the post is an additional errata, or clarification. It is just giving examples of results of the rules as written for the errata
Which is funny because RaW Da Jump is affected, so the Facebook page is actually wrong. GW getting their own rules wrong when asked? Did I time travel to 1993 and asked the Roolz Boyz again?
Everything you said is simply untrue unless you try to apply the tactical reserves rules to units that are not using tactical reserves.
Everything I said is true because the beta Tactical Reserves rule applies to ANY unit that arrives onto the battlefield, not just those that were deployed elsewhere.
Not according to the actual rules as written, or the comments about the rules by the people who write the rules preceeding it in the big faq, or the marketing piece on Facebook listing some types of units unaffected and affected by said rules.
Do you actually know what Rules as Written means? Because it's clear from your posting that you do not.
As stated in the info graphic the tactical reserves beta rule effects units that have not yet deployed. Units that have already started on the table (ie - arrived) are not affected by the rule.
To answer Raven's question RAW yes you can place units elsewhere on the board as long as they have already arrived on the table.
That's RAW according to Facebook. Which I accept, but it's sill not good practice. They should do an actual FAQ.
No it isn't.
All the Facebook info graphic does is explain the rule in no uncertain terms for those who cannot or do not follow the BRB, FAQs and beta rules.
It gives no new meaning or ruling if its own, it merely explains the existing rules and how that interact for those who were struggling.
The RAW of the beta rule affects Da Jump and all the rest.
It is entirely true. Completely, in fact.
RAW the beta rule does not effect Da Jump etc, see my first post in this thread, my many other posts on dakka regarding the topic or the GW info graphic top paragraph for why this is the case.
You are a perfect example of someone for whom the info graphic was made.
The RAW of the beta rule affects Da Jump and all the rest.
It is entirely true. Completely, in fact.
RAW the beta rule does not effect Da Jump etc, see my first post in this thread, my many other posts on dakka regarding the topic or the GW info graphic top paragraph for why this is the case.
You are a perfect example of someone for whom the info graphic was made.
E - spelling.
Firstly it's "affect" not "effect". Secondly, the RaW of the beta rule does affect Da Jump, because the rule says it does.
The RAW of the beta rule affects Da Jump and all the rest.
It is entirely true. Completely, in fact.
RAW the beta rule does not effect Da Jump etc, see my first post in this thread, my many other posts on dakka regarding the topic or the GW info graphic top paragraph for why this is the case.
You are a perfect example of someone for whom the info graphic was made.
E - spelling.
Firstly it's "affect" not "effect". Secondly, the RaW of the beta rule does affect Da Jump, because the rule says it does.
Firstly I'm on my.phone so you'll have to forgive the spelling mistakes.
Secondly you are entirely wrong, please show me where the beta rule says it affects Da Jump and not, as multiple posters on here and even GW through the info graphic have shown you, units that have not previously ARRIVED on the battlefield.
JNAProductions wrote: So, when Da Jump says to "Remove them from the battlefield", they are NOT set up on the battlefield mid-turn immediately after?
They are not ARRIVING as they have already arrived. Hence the rule does not apply. As the Facebook post clearly states.
No, you physically remove them from the table and place them somewhere new. Its instructive if anything. Irrelevant given the context of this discussion and particular beta rule though, as you can see above and on the previous page.
A unit that had already arrived is unaffected. A unit that starts on the table and is moved via stratagem or psychic power etc by definition has already arrived.
There is no more to say on this. I don't understand the confusion unless it's feigned ignorance because some people are unhappy these abilities are able to bypass the ruling.
We know the Designers’ intention (unless we’re playing ostrich head-in-the-sand). Ignoring the presence of this guidance, decrying it in multiple threads and continuously insisting direct information from the writers doesn’t apply, and is somehow the scribblings of an intern (when GW don’t use interns for their social media) is just a hiding to nothing.
You can literally type LITERALLY in caps as many times as you like and it won’t change the fact we have been told by GW that Da Jump works on turn one on units on the board. That’s just undeniable fact that we’ve got that information and know its source. You may not like the chosen communication vector, but we’ve been over this in at least two other threads. This is all pure repetition and serving no purpose.
JNAProductions wrote: Again, I said I listen to Facebook. I just also acknowledge that the rule, as written, does not function that way.
Where in the Beta Rule itself does it have an exception for units that were on the table and subsequently removed?
How does that even matter? RAW commisars kill 1 and unit passes moraletest. That's been overwritten. So whether beta rule RAW says one way or another is actually irrelevant. If RAW didn't say so then official facebook post rewrote it and now RAW says da jump etc are not affected. If RAW did not say then official facebook post clarified it. Either way current RAW is da jump etc aren't affected. What it was before official facebook post is now irrelevant so why arque about that? What matters is NOW.
Now another thing altogether is is it good idea that GW has official sources in multiple places including FB posts that are now hard to find? No. That leads to situations like I ran where tournament opponent and judges weren't aware and led to argument. Any professional game developer would put all official rule changes and clarifications on one place(let's call it FAQ&Errata section in web site for example!). But GW isn't professional game design company and everybody knows it so it's hardly surprise they do it like(worse than average) amateurs. No surprise there. Players just have suffer GW's incompetence.
As stated in the info graphic the tactical reserves beta rule effects units that have not yet deployed. Units that have already started on the table (ie - arrived) are not affected by the rule.
To answer Raven's question RAW yes you can place units elsewhere on the board as long as they have already arrived on the table.
Actually, not quite true. If you read the graphic, they emphasize that the rule doesn't apply to units that were set up on the board during deployment. They did not say that you could use them on a unit that sets up in its own deployment zone during turn 1 to be moved outside the deplyment zone. So, you wouldn't get to use Dark Matter Crystal on reinforcements initially arriving during Turn 1.
doctortom wrote: Yes, we disagree. The people running the GW Facebook page aren't just "some random social media intern", they are representing the company when they post on Facebook. It's not just some yobbo at Billy Bob's 40K Emporium And Bait Shop putting up a post on their own website and trying to claim it's an official GW post.
Why bother playing by ANY of the rules if you're going to just ignore the ones you don't like? If you want free-form nonsense you have D&D for that. This is a board game with a set of rules to follow.
You lost me on this one. What rule is Dr bTom ignoring? If anything you're ignoring the legitimate GWFB post that cites examples of how the new beta rules work.
Again, Facebook is NOT RULES. I don't know how much clearer I can get on that. The Facebook page LITERALLY says it's not rules.
Neither are FAQs if you really want to get pedantic. Errata are rules.
blaktoof wrote: The issue with the Facebook post is some people think that the post is an additional errata, or clarification. It is just giving examples of results of the rules as written for the errata
Which is funny because RaW Da Jump is affected, so the Facebook page is actually wrong. GW getting their own rules wrong when asked? Did I time travel to 1993 and asked the Roolz Boyz again?
Everything you said is simply untrue unless you try to apply the tactical reserves rules to units that are not using tactical reserves.
Everything I said is true because the beta Tactical Reserves rule applies to ANY unit that arrives onto the battlefield, not just those that were deployed elsewhere.
Not according to the actual rules as written, or the comments about the rules by the people who write the rules preceeding it in the big faq, or the marketing piece on Facebook listing some types of units unaffected and affected by said rules.
Do you actually know what Rules as Written means? Because it's clear from your posting that you do not.
I do.
The issue is you are take a faq answer for "do units that use gate da jump etc count as moving for the purpose of shooting- yes for the purpose of shooting they count as if arriving on the table."
You are then taking the for the purpose of shooting statement and saying they count as arriving for all purposes beyond shooting, despite it not actually saying that.
Then you are taking the second part of a rule for tactical reserves and apying it to all arriving units not just units that tactical reserves applies to, despite it not saying it applies to all units, and despite the commentary from the people who wrote the ruled actually stating it applies to only the units in tactical reserves from the text preceeding the tactical reserves errata.
Then you combine those two and come with your cherry picked outcome of units using gate are arriving to the table and cannot be placed beyond their own deployment zone turn 1.
I completely understand the rules as written as well how you are cherry picking to come up with an interaction that does not exist, even from the writers of the rules who state the Tactical reserves rule applies just to units set up mid game that were in some form of tactical reserves during deployment.(being deployed to some place other than the table).
With the arrival of 8th and the new more involved version of GW. They are going to put out information on facebook clarifying things and the old method of wait for an errata and only errata/faq count as official is going out the door. This is an outdated way of thinking especially if it comes from their official platform. Get used to it, this is how 8th is going to go regardless of the way you think the rules should or should not get updated.
On to the rules of the OP. I think that because they arrived from a form of reserves and then tried to redeploy they would have to redeploy into their deployment zone on turn 1. The dark matter crystal doesn't change the fact that they didnt start turn 1 on the board.
blaktoof wrote: The issue with the Facebook post is some people think that the post is an additional errata, or clarification. It is just giving examples of results of the rules as written for the errata
Which is funny because RaW Da Jump is affected, so the Facebook page is actually wrong. GW getting their own rules wrong when asked? Did I time travel to 1993 and asked the Roolz Boyz again?
Everything you said is simply untrue unless you try to apply the tactical reserves rules to units that are not using tactical reserves.
Everything I said is true because the beta Tactical Reserves rule applies to ANY unit that arrives onto the battlefield, not just those that were deployed elsewhere.
Not according to the actual rules as written, or the comments about the rules by the people who write the rules preceeding it in the big faq, or the marketing piece on Facebook listing some types of units unaffected and affected by said rules.
Do you actually know what Rules as Written means? Because it's clear from your posting that you do not.
I do.
The issue is you are take a faq answer for "do units that use gate da jump etc count as moving for the purpose of shooting- yes for the purpose of shooting they count as if arriving on the table."
You are then taking the for the purpose of shooting statement and saying they count as arriving for all purposes beyond shooting, despite it not actually saying that.
Then you are taking the second part of a rule for tactical reserves and apying it to all arriving units not just units that tactical reserves applies to, despite it not saying it applies to all units, and despite the commentary from the people who wrote the ruled actually stating it applies to only the units in tactical reserves from the text preceeding the tactical reserves errata.
Then you combine those two and come with your cherry picked outcome of units using gate are arriving to the table and cannot be placed beyond their own deployment zone turn 1.
I completely understand the rules as written as well how you are cherry picking to come up with an interaction that does not exist, even from the writers of the rules who state the Tactical reserves rule applies just to units set up mid game that were in some form of tactical reserves during deployment.(being deployed to some place other than the table).
Rules are nothing if not employed in practice, and in practice the prevailing interpretation is that this kind of deep strike is allowed.
I don't see that it's a consensus. As I pointed out earlier:
"What's interesting is that even if you use this FAQ, technically you couldn't use Webway Infiltration and then the Dark Matter Crystal. What was posted on Facebook says "but this rule doesn't apply to any units that are set up during deployment". It does NOT say "this rule doesn't apply to any units that have been set up". They did not give any examples of a unit that arrived from reinforcements during the first turn and then used an ability, psychic power, stratagem or whatever to be moved out of the deployment zone. According to what this says, you can only apply those to units that were set up during deployment. So, examples like da Jump are fine if the units involved started the game on the board, but it would not apply to units not set up during deployment but are having their (initial) set up during turn 1. "
An Actual Englishman, who said you could use Dark matter Crystal on units already deployed, hasn't responded to this when I pointed it out - the Facebook rule draws a distinction between units that are set up during deployment and units that are set up during turn one, with you not being able to do something during turn one to redeploy the latter (though the Facebook post lets you relocate units that are set up in your deployement zone during deployment). mhalko1 also made this point on it's own. Nobody else has specifically addressed or debated this part of the issue, because they're too busy focusing on BCB sucking the oxygen out of the air with his saying they aren't rules, the other people saying they are, but ignoring that the clarification itself hasn't changed anything for units that were not set up on the board during deployement. As the OP asked about deploying a unit in the deployment zone during turn one then using something the same turn to get them across the board, this is a very important point.
If people want to take the debate from this point, that's fine, but the "prevailing opinion" that you're mentioning isn't taking that into account and hasn't put forward anything to refute what I said. That doesn't make the prevailing opinion worth much unless the people espousing that opinion can come out and refute that (which is an entirely different argument from the BCB sideshow).
Because the unit was deployed to a place other than the table(tactical reserves) if they are deployed turn 1 to your deployment(mid game) they cannot use dark matter crystal to be setup outside of their deployment zone as the unit is still under the restriction of the errattad tactial reserves as it was deployed somewhere other than the table.
It likely got lost In the aide arguement which rapidly became the focus of the thread. Sorry.
Because the unit was deployed to a place other than the table(tactical reserves) if they are deployed turn 1 to your deployment(mid game) they cannot use dark matter crystal to be setup outside of their deployment zone as the unit is still under the restriction of the errattad tactial reserves as it was deployed somewhere other than the table.
It likely got lost In the aide arguement which rapidly became the focus of the thread. Sorry.
And again, you're making up rules. There is no such thing as being in "tactical reserves", nor does the rule require the unit to have been deployed somewhere other than the battlefield.
As stated in the info graphic the tactical reserves beta rule effects units that have not yet deployed. Units that have already started on the table (ie - arrived) are not affected by the rule.
To answer Raven's question RAW yes you can place units elsewhere on the board as long as they have already arrived on the table.
Actually, not quite true. If you read the graphic, they emphasize that the rule doesn't apply to units that were set up on the board during deployment. They did not say that you could use them on a unit that sets up in its own deployment zone during turn 1 to be moved outside the deplyment zone. So, you wouldn't get to use Dark Matter Crystal on reinforcements initially arriving during Turn 1.
The rule states that units that arrive on turn one must be placed within their deployment zone.
So you if you place them in your deployment zone they have arrived. If you now move the units with dark matter crystal etc it is a legal move to put them elsewhere on the board because they have already arrived.
As stated in the info graphic the tactical reserves beta rule effects units that have not yet deployed. Units that have already started on the table (ie - arrived) are not affected by the rule.
To answer Raven's question RAW yes you can place units elsewhere on the board as long as they have already arrived on the table.
Actually, not quite true. If you read the graphic, they emphasize that the rule doesn't apply to units that were set up on the board during deployment. They did not say that you could use them on a unit that sets up in its own deployment zone during turn 1 to be moved outside the deplyment zone. So, you wouldn't get to use Dark Matter Crystal on reinforcements initially arriving during Turn 1.
The rule states that units that arrive on turn one must be placed within their deployment zone.
So you if you place them in your deployment zone they have arrived. If you now move the units with dark matter crystal etc it is a legal move to put them elsewhere on the board because they have already arrived.
Again, I don't think it's particularly complex.
Can't respond too often, on holiday
Dark Matter Crystal and other effects "remove the unit from the battlefield". If they don't arrive on the battlefield, how can they do anything else during the game?
As stated in the info graphic the tactical reserves beta rule effects units that have not yet deployed. Units that have already started on the table (ie - arrived) are not affected by the rule.
To answer Raven's question RAW yes you can place units elsewhere on the board as long as they have already arrived on the table.
Actually, not quite true. If you read the graphic, they emphasize that the rule doesn't apply to units that were set up on the board during deployment. They did not say that you could use them on a unit that sets up in its own deployment zone during turn 1 to be moved outside the deplyment zone. So, you wouldn't get to use Dark Matter Crystal on reinforcements initially arriving during Turn 1.
The rule states that units that arrive on turn one must be placed within their deployment zone.
So you if you place them in your deployment zone they have arrived. If you now move the units with dark matter crystal etc it is a legal move to put them elsewhere on the board because they have already arrived.
Again, I don't think it's particularly complex.
Can't respond too often, on holiday
Dark Matter Crystal and other effects "remove the unit from the battlefield". If they don't arrive on the battlefield, how can they do anything else during the game?
As stated in the info graphic the tactical reserves beta rule effects units that have not yet deployed. Units that have already started on the table (ie - arrived) are not affected by the rule.
To answer Raven's question RAW yes you can place units elsewhere on the board as long as they have already arrived on the table.
Actually, not quite true. If you read the graphic, they emphasize that the rule doesn't apply to units that were set up on the board during deployment. They did not say that you could use them on a unit that sets up in its own deployment zone during turn 1 to be moved outside the deplyment zone. So, you wouldn't get to use Dark Matter Crystal on reinforcements initially arriving during Turn 1.
The rule states that units that arrive on turn one must be placed within their deployment zone.
So you if you place them in your deployment zone they have arrived. If you now move the units with dark matter crystal etc it is a legal move to put them elsewhere on the board because they have already arrived.
Again, I don't think it's particularly complex.
Can't respond too often, on holiday
Dark Matter Crystal and other effects "remove the unit from the battlefield". If they don't arrive on the battlefield, how can they do anything else during the game?
They 'return' to the battlefield.
They are 'replaced' on the battlefield.
Lots of ways.
Ok, so you can make the same argument for units that make a Manta Drop. They were on the battlefield, just really high up. Do you see the flaw in your reasoning now?
As stated in the info graphic the tactical reserves beta rule effects units that have not yet deployed. Units that have already started on the table (ie - arrived) are not affected by the rule.
To answer Raven's question RAW yes you can place units elsewhere on the board as long as they have already arrived on the table.
Actually, not quite true. If you read the graphic, they emphasize that the rule doesn't apply to units that were set up on the board during deployment. They did not say that you could use them on a unit that sets up in its own deployment zone during turn 1 to be moved outside the deplyment zone. So, you wouldn't get to use Dark Matter Crystal on reinforcements initially arriving during Turn 1.
The rule states that units that arrive on turn one must be placed within their deployment zone.
So you if you place them in your deployment zone they have arrived. If you now move the units with dark matter crystal etc it is a legal move to put them elsewhere on the board because they have already arrived.
Again, I don't think it's particularly complex.
Can't respond too often, on holiday
Dark Matter Crystal and other effects "remove the unit from the battlefield". If they don't arrive on the battlefield, how can they do anything else during the game?
They 'return' to the battlefield.
They are 'replaced' on the battlefield.
Lots of ways.
Ok, so you can make the same argument for units that make a Manta Drop. They were on the battlefield, just really high up. Do you see the flaw in your reasoning now?
Nope because those units literally aren't on the battlefield while units that, for the millionth time, HAVE ALREADY ARRIVED on the battlefield are.
An Actual Englishman wrote: Nope because those units literally aren't on the battlefield while units that, for the millionth time, HAVE ALREADY ARRIVED on the battlefield are.
Which, for the billionth time, ARE REMOVED FROM THE BATTLEFIELD by DMC and other such effects. They are no longer on the battlefield. The only way for them to come back to the battlefield is for them to arrive on the battlefield.
An Actual Englishman wrote: Nope because those units literally aren't on the battlefield while units that, for the millionth time, HAVE ALREADY ARRIVED on the battlefield are.
Which, for the billionth time, ARE REMOVED FROM THE BATTLEFIELD by DMC and other such effects. They are no longer on the battlefield. The only way for them to come back to the battlefield is for them to arrive on the battlefield.
I've just given you (twice) what I believe to be the appropriate pronoun for the units you've described. Arrived isn't it. I have given you multiple ways a unit can be considered to return to the battlefield through these means.
I'm not sure why your definition of 'arrived' is so wrong given the context of this game, but it clearly is and I can literally prove it because GW have confirmed as much.
Furthermore, as far as I know nothing in the rules says that if a unit is removed from the battlefield and redeployed/retuned/replaced they are 'arriving'. If there is please provide a source?
An Actual Englishman wrote: Nope because those units literally aren't on the battlefield while units that, for the millionth time, HAVE ALREADY ARRIVED on the battlefield are.
Which, for the billionth time, ARE REMOVED FROM THE BATTLEFIELD by DMC and other such effects. They are no longer on the battlefield. The only way for them to come back to the battlefield is for them to arrive on the battlefield.
I've just given you (twice) what I believe to be the appropriate pronoun for the units you've described. Arrived isn't it. I have given you multiple ways a unit can be considered to return to the battlefield through these means.
I'm not sure why your definition of 'arrived' is so wrong given the context of this game, but it clearly is and I can literally prove it because GW have confirmed as much.
Furthermore, as far as I know nothing in the rules says that if a unit is removed from the battlefield and redeployed/retuned/replaced they are 'arriving'. If there is please provide a source?
The English Language. The same reason we know what a "roll" or a "dice" is.
An Actual Englishman wrote: Nope because those units literally aren't on the battlefield while units that, for the millionth time, HAVE ALREADY ARRIVED on the battlefield are.
Which, for the billionth time, ARE REMOVED FROM THE BATTLEFIELD by DMC and other such effects. They are no longer on the battlefield. The only way for them to come back to the battlefield is for them to arrive on the battlefield.
I've just given you (twice) what I believe to be the appropriate pronoun for the units you've described. Arrived isn't it. I have given you multiple ways a unit can be considered to return to the battlefield through these means.
I'm not sure why your definition of 'arrived' is so wrong given the context of this game, but it clearly is and I can literally prove it because GW have confirmed as much.
Furthermore, as far as I know nothing in the rules says that if a unit is removed from the battlefield and redeployed/retuned/replaced they are 'arriving'. If there is please provide a source?
The English Language. The same reason we know what a "roll" or a "dice" is.
Wrong again.
As I've said repeatedly there are other descriptors for a unit that is moved via a stratagem or psychic power. Arrived is not it and hey look at that, GW rules writers seem to agree.
Enough of this. You have no basis for your argument and you're only arguing for the sake of it. Well, its been fun but I'm bored now so until you have an actual argument based on the rules as written rather than your bizarre interpretation of them where you create your own, please don't bother me with this anymore.
Indeed, despite bcb claiming the "high road" they can't resist using their literally and proven wrong interpretation of the rules as if it is somehow relevant to any single person
It isn't
GW have said bcb is wrong
Bcb doesn't like being told they're wrong, so attacks the source and creates hilariously bad slippery slope fallacies to "prove" they're right.
Reinforcement and Tactical reserve are two different rules.
Da jump deals with only Reinforcement, a rule in it's own in the BRB. While Tactical Reserves is itself another rule in the BRB
I'll even link them for you guys.
Reinforcements
Many units have the ability to be set up on the battlefield mid-turn, sometimes by using teleporters,grav chutes or other,more esoteric means. Typically, this happens at the end of the Movement phase, but it can also happen during other phases. Units that are set up in this manner cannot move or Advance further during the turn they arrive- their entire Movement phase is used in deploying to the battlefield-but they can otherwise act normally(shoot,charge,ect.) for the rest of the turn. Units that arrive as reinforcements count as having moved in their Movement phase for all rules purposes, such as shooting Heavy weapons (p180). Any units that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the battle counts as having been destroyed.
This is the BETA Tactical Reserves Rule
Notice something interesting about this?
They are two separate rules. They are not the same rule, so why are people making them out as one rule???
One is talking about deployment, while one is during a turn. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME RULE
Tactical reserves is a deployment specific rule, that is saying if you do not place this unit on the battlefield, this rule applies to it.
So then, you may ask. What rule does units use if they are actually deployed on the battlefield?
Why the Reinforcement Rule of course!
These rules are seperate. They may look the same and function the same but they are fundamentally TWO DIFFERENT RULES.
one is used in Deployment the other is used in a turn
Do not assume they are one rule.
Also P.S anyone who decides to quote this reply must use the full context otherwise you have just lost your argument. Context matters
As stated in the info graphic the tactical reserves beta rule effects units that have not yet deployed. Units that have already started on the table (ie - arrived) are not affected by the rule.
To answer Raven's question RAW yes you can place units elsewhere on the board as long as they have already arrived on the table.
Actually, not quite true. If you read the graphic, they emphasize that the rule doesn't apply to units that were set up on the board during deployment. They did not say that you could use them on a unit that sets up in its own deployment zone during turn 1 to be moved outside the deplyment zone. So, you wouldn't get to use Dark Matter Crystal on reinforcements initially arriving during Turn 1.
The rule states that units that arrive on turn one must be placed within their deployment zone.
So you if you place them in your deployment zone they have arrived. If you now move the units with dark matter crystal etc it is a legal move to put them elsewhere on the board because they have already arrived.
Again, I don't think it's particularly complex.
Can't respond too often, on holiday
If you are not playing by the Facebook post, then BCB would be correct for any unit that gets removed from the battlefield and comde on again, as they are described as being removed from the battlefield, then come on again, and units coming on mid-turn are desctibed as reinforcements. But, I velieve you are probably trying to play it by the Facebook post.
Unfortunately, the Facebook post also denies what you said. (mhalko1 has helpfully posted the page that GW put out on Facebook about this; it's the last post on page 1 of the thread if you wish to look at the entire thing.)
The Facebook post with the page clarifying the Tactical Reserves rul states "But this rule doesn't apply to any units that are set up on the battlefield during deployment; these units can still use abilities, Stratagems and psychic powers to put the pressure on opponents." You are ignoring the key two words that I underlined. It doesn't excuse everyone who has been set up on the battlefield, but only those who were set up during deployment. So, while you would be correct in saying you can use things like da Jump on units that start the game on the board, this isn't true for any units that arrive during turn on. We are given the exception only for units that are set up during deployment. The OP was giving us a situation where the unit arrived on the board during turn 1, so it has no permission to ignore the restriction keeping it from using a Stratagem to move outside the deployment zone during the same turn one.
Please, provide a rules quotation that backs up your saying that a unit that arrives on turn one can subsequently use a stratagem to move outside the deployment zone the same turn. I've given you the quotations to show why it doesn't.
As stated in the info graphic the tactical reserves beta rule effects units that have not yet deployed. Units that have already started on the table (ie - arrived) are not affected by the rule.
To answer Raven's question RAW yes you can place units elsewhere on the board as long as they have already arrived on the table.
Actually, not quite true. If you read the graphic, they emphasize that the rule doesn't apply to units that were set up on the board during deployment. They did not say that you could use them on a unit that sets up in its own deployment zone during turn 1 to be moved outside the deplyment zone. So, you wouldn't get to use Dark Matter Crystal on reinforcements initially arriving during Turn 1.
The rule states that units that arrive on turn one must be placed within their deployment zone.
So you if you place them in your deployment zone they have arrived. If you now move the units with dark matter crystal etc it is a legal move to put them elsewhere on the board because they have already arrived.
Again, I don't think it's particularly complex.
Can't respond too often, on holiday
If you are not playing by the Facebook post, then BCB would be correct for any unit that gets removed from the battlefield and comde on again, as they are described as being removed from the battlefield, then come on again, and units coming on mid-turn are desctibed as reinforcements. But, I velieve you are probably trying to play it by the Facebook post.
Unfortunately, the Facebook post also denies what you said. (mhalko1 has helpfully posted the page that GW put out on Facebook about this; it's the last post on page 1 of the thread if you wish to look at the entire thing.)
The Facebook post with the page clarifying the Tactical Reserves rul states "But this rule doesn't apply to any units that are set up on the battlefield during deployment; these units can still use abilities, Stratagems and psychic powers to put the pressure on opponents." You are ignoring the key two words that I underlined. It doesn't excuse everyone who has been set up on the battlefield, but only those who were set up during deployment. So, while you would be correct in saying you can use things like da Jump on units that start the game on the board, this isn't true for any units that arrive during turn on. We are given the exception only for units that are set up during deployment. The OP was giving us a situation where the unit arrived on the board during turn 1, so it has no permission to ignore the restriction keeping it from using a Stratagem to move outside the deployment zone during the same turn one.
Please, provide a rules quotation that backs up your saying that a unit that arrives on turn one can subsequently use a stratagem to move outside the deployment zone the same turn. I've given you the quotations to show why it doesn't.
I don't need to provide a quotation, you've already had it multiple times in this thread - its in the beta tactical reserves rule.
It states (as I have said multiple times now) units that ARRIVE. A unit that has already arrived via deployment or during set up has, incredibly, already ARRIVED so isn't bound by the rule.
I've already stated this in this very thread, you quoted it above. I've yet to see a reasonable argument against this that doesn't take a strange, new meaning for 'arrived' and replaces it with your own.
Also, as I've said multiple times - the facebook post is not a new rule post or a change of existing rules. It clarifies the same rule that has always existed since the beta tac res rules were released for those who seemingly don't understand what 'arrived' means.
My group has always interpreted DMC as being allowed to jump behind enemy lines. Just because on surface level it seems like they start out on the field, and then get redeployed (no keyword intended).
Deciever also can get behind enemy lines, whereas nurglings can't. Their rules specificy that restriction.
Doesn't seem super complicated to me unless you want to argue for a specific result.
As stated in the info graphic the tactical reserves beta rule effects units that have not yet deployed. Units that have already started on the table (ie - arrived) are not affected by the rule.
To answer Raven's question RAW yes you can place units elsewhere on the board as long as they have already arrived on the table.
Actually, not quite true. If you read the graphic, they emphasize that the rule doesn't apply to units that were set up on the board during deployment. They did not say that you could use them on a unit that sets up in its own deployment zone during turn 1 to be moved outside the deplyment zone. So, you wouldn't get to use Dark Matter Crystal on reinforcements initially arriving during Turn 1.
The rule states that units that arrive on turn one must be placed within their deployment zone.
So you if you place them in your deployment zone they have arrived. If you now move the units with dark matter crystal etc it is a legal move to put them elsewhere on the board because they have already arrived.
Again, I don't think it's particularly complex.
Can't respond too often, on holiday
If you are not playing by the Facebook post, then BCB would be correct for any unit that gets removed from the battlefield and comde on again, as they are described as being removed from the battlefield, then come on again, and units coming on mid-turn are desctibed as reinforcements. But, I velieve you are probably trying to play it by the Facebook post.
Unfortunately, the Facebook post also denies what you said. (mhalko1 has helpfully posted the page that GW put out on Facebook about this; it's the last post on page 1 of the thread if you wish to look at the entire thing.)
The Facebook post with the page clarifying the Tactical Reserves rul states "But this rule doesn't apply to any units that are set up on the battlefield during deployment; these units can still use abilities, Stratagems and psychic powers to put the pressure on opponents." You are ignoring the key two words that I underlined. It doesn't excuse everyone who has been set up on the battlefield, but only those who were set up during deployment. So, while you would be correct in saying you can use things like da Jump on units that start the game on the board, this isn't true for any units that arrive during turn on. We are given the exception only for units that are set up during deployment. The OP was giving us a situation where the unit arrived on the board during turn 1, so it has no permission to ignore the restriction keeping it from using a Stratagem to move outside the deployment zone during the same turn one.
Please, provide a rules quotation that backs up your saying that a unit that arrives on turn one can subsequently use a stratagem to move outside the deployment zone the same turn. I've given you the quotations to show why it doesn't.
I don't need to provide a quotation, you've already had it multiple times in this thread - its in the beta tactical reserves rule.
It states (as I have said multiple times now) units that ARRIVE. A unit that has already arrived via deployment or during set up has, incredibly, already ARRIVED so isn't bound by the rule.
I've already stated this in this very thread, you quoted it above. I've yet to see a reasonable argument against this that doesn't take a strange, new meaning for 'arrived' and replaces it with your own.
Also, as I've said multiple times - the facebook post is not a new rule post or a change of existing rules. It clarifies the same rule that has always existed since the beta tac res rules were released for those who seemingly don't understand what 'arrived' means.
As stated in the info graphic the tactical reserves beta rule effects units that have not yet deployed. Units that have already started on the table (ie - arrived) are not affected by the rule.
To answer Raven's question RAW yes you can place units elsewhere on the board as long as they have already arrived on the table.
Actually, not quite true. If you read the graphic, they emphasize that the rule doesn't apply to units that were set up on the board during deployment. They did not say that you could use them on a unit that sets up in its own deployment zone during turn 1 to be moved outside the deplyment zone. So, you wouldn't get to use Dark Matter Crystal on reinforcements initially arriving during Turn 1.
The rule states that units that arrive on turn one must be placed within their deployment zone.
So you if you place them in your deployment zone they have arrived. If you now move the units with dark matter crystal etc it is a legal move to put them elsewhere on the board because they have already arrived.
Again, I don't think it's particularly complex.
Can't respond too often, on holiday
If you are not playing by the Facebook post, then BCB would be correct for any unit that gets removed from the battlefield and comde on again, as they are described as being removed from the battlefield, then come on again, and units coming on mid-turn are desctibed as reinforcements. But, I velieve you are probably trying to play it by the Facebook post.
Unfortunately, the Facebook post also denies what you said. (mhalko1 has helpfully posted the page that GW put out on Facebook about this; it's the last post on page 1 of the thread if you wish to look at the entire thing.)
The Facebook post with the page clarifying the Tactical Reserves rul states "But this rule doesn't apply to any units that are set up on the battlefield during deployment; these units can still use abilities, Stratagems and psychic powers to put the pressure on opponents." You are ignoring the key two words that I underlined. It doesn't excuse everyone who has been set up on the battlefield, but only those who were set up during deployment. So, while you would be correct in saying you can use things like da Jump on units that start the game on the board, this isn't true for any units that arrive during turn on. We are given the exception only for units that are set up during deployment. The OP was giving us a situation where the unit arrived on the board during turn 1, so it has no permission to ignore the restriction keeping it from using a Stratagem to move outside the deployment zone during the same turn one.
Please, provide a rules quotation that backs up your saying that a unit that arrives on turn one can subsequently use a stratagem to move outside the deployment zone the same turn. I've given you the quotations to show why it doesn't.
I don't need to provide a quotation, you've already had it multiple times in this thread - its in the beta tactical reserves rule.
It states (as I have said multiple times now) units that ARRIVE. A unit that has already arrived via deployment or during set up has, incredibly, already ARRIVED so isn't bound by the rule.
I've already stated this in this very thread, you quoted it above. I've yet to see a reasonable argument against this that doesn't take a strange, new meaning for 'arrived' and replaces it with your own.
Also, as I've said multiple times - the facebook post is not a new rule post or a change of existing rules. It clarifies the same rule that has always existed since the beta tac res rules were released for those who seemingly don't understand what 'arrived' means.
As stated in the info graphic the tactical reserves beta rule effects units that have not yet deployed. Units that have already started on the table (ie - arrived) are not affected by the rule.
To answer Raven's question RAW yes you can place units elsewhere on the board as long as they have already arrived on the table.
Actually, not quite true. If you read the graphic, they emphasize that the rule doesn't apply to units that were set up on the board during deployment. They did not say that you could use them on a unit that sets up in its own deployment zone during turn 1 to be moved outside the deplyment zone. So, you wouldn't get to use Dark Matter Crystal on reinforcements initially arriving during Turn 1.
The rule states that units that arrive on turn one must be placed within their deployment zone.
So you if you place them in your deployment zone they have arrived. If you now move the units with dark matter crystal etc it is a legal move to put them elsewhere on the board because they have already arrived.
Again, I don't think it's particularly complex.
Can't respond too often, on holiday
If you are not playing by the Facebook post, then BCB would be correct for any unit that gets removed from the battlefield and comde on again, as they are described as being removed from the battlefield, then come on again, and units coming on mid-turn are desctibed as reinforcements. But, I velieve you are probably trying to play it by the Facebook post.
Unfortunately, the Facebook post also denies what you said. (mhalko1 has helpfully posted the page that GW put out on Facebook about this; it's the last post on page 1 of the thread if you wish to look at the entire thing.)
The Facebook post with the page clarifying the Tactical Reserves rul states "But this rule doesn't apply to any units that are set up on the battlefield during deployment; these units can still use abilities, Stratagems and psychic powers to put the pressure on opponents." You are ignoring the key two words that I underlined. It doesn't excuse everyone who has been set up on the battlefield, but only those who were set up during deployment. So, while you would be correct in saying you can use things like da Jump on units that start the game on the board, this isn't true for any units that arrive during turn on. We are given the exception only for units that are set up during deployment. The OP was giving us a situation where the unit arrived on the board during turn 1, so it has no permission to ignore the restriction keeping it from using a Stratagem to move outside the deployment zone during the same turn one.
Please, provide a rules quotation that backs up your saying that a unit that arrives on turn one can subsequently use a stratagem to move outside the deployment zone the same turn. I've given you the quotations to show why it doesn't.
I don't need to provide a quotation, you've already had it multiple times in this thread - its in the beta tactical reserves rule.
It states (as I have said multiple times now) units that ARRIVE. A unit that has already arrived via deployment or during set up has, incredibly, already ARRIVED so isn't bound by the rule.
I've already stated this in this very thread, you quoted it above. I've yet to see a reasonable argument against this that doesn't take a strange, new meaning for 'arrived' and replaces it with your own.
Also, as I've said multiple times - the facebook post is not a new rule post or a change of existing rules. It clarifies the same rule that has always existed since the beta tac res rules were released for those who seemingly don't understand what 'arrived' means.
Yes, it says "arrive", but then it gives the quotation that I provided. If we go with your interpretation, there would be no need for the quotation I provided, as anything that arrives, whether during deployment or on turn 1) would subsequently be able to use abilities, stratagems, etc. As they are explicitly making a distinction between units that are set up during deployment and units that set up during turn 1 by exempting those who deployed from the restrictions on subsequent abilities, etc., that means that it can't possibly mean that you can use the abilities after arriving in turn 1 to get outside the deployment zone. With them adding what I quoted, they have to be handling units that arrive in turn 1 different from those set up during deployment in relation to using abilities, stratagems, etc.
As stated in the info graphic the tactical reserves beta rule effects units that have not yet deployed. Units that have already started on the table (ie - arrived) are not affected by the rule.
To answer Raven's question RAW yes you can place units elsewhere on the board as long as they have already arrived on the table.
Actually, not quite true. If you read the graphic, they emphasize that the rule doesn't apply to units that were set up on the board during deployment. They did not say that you could use them on a unit that sets up in its own deployment zone during turn 1 to be moved outside the deplyment zone. So, you wouldn't get to use Dark Matter Crystal on reinforcements initially arriving during Turn 1.
The rule states that units that arrive on turn one must be placed within their deployment zone.
So you if you place them in your deployment zone they have arrived. If you now move the units with dark matter crystal etc it is a legal move to put them elsewhere on the board because they have already arrived.
Again, I don't think it's particularly complex.
Can't respond too often, on holiday
If you are not playing by the Facebook post, then BCB would be correct for any unit that gets removed from the battlefield and comde on again, as they are described as being removed from the battlefield, then come on again, and units coming on mid-turn are desctibed as reinforcements. But, I velieve you are probably trying to play it by the Facebook post.
Unfortunately, the Facebook post also denies what you said. (mhalko1 has helpfully posted the page that GW put out on Facebook about this; it's the last post on page 1 of the thread if you wish to look at the entire thing.)
The Facebook post with the page clarifying the Tactical Reserves rul states "But this rule doesn't apply to any units that are set up on the battlefield during deployment; these units can still use abilities, Stratagems and psychic powers to put the pressure on opponents." You are ignoring the key two words that I underlined. It doesn't excuse everyone who has been set up on the battlefield, but only those who were set up during deployment. So, while you would be correct in saying you can use things like da Jump on units that start the game on the board, this isn't true for any units that arrive during turn on. We are given the exception only for units that are set up during deployment. The OP was giving us a situation where the unit arrived on the board during turn 1, so it has no permission to ignore the restriction keeping it from using a Stratagem to move outside the deployment zone during the same turn one.
Please, provide a rules quotation that backs up your saying that a unit that arrives on turn one can subsequently use a stratagem to move outside the deployment zone the same turn. I've given you the quotations to show why it doesn't.
I don't need to provide a quotation, you've already had it multiple times in this thread - its in the beta tactical reserves rule.
It states (as I have said multiple times now) units that ARRIVE. A unit that has already arrived via deployment or during set up has, incredibly, already ARRIVED so isn't bound by the rule.
I've already stated this in this very thread, you quoted it above. I've yet to see a reasonable argument against this that doesn't take a strange, new meaning for 'arrived' and replaces it with your own.
Also, as I've said multiple times - the facebook post is not a new rule post or a change of existing rules. It clarifies the same rule that has always existed since the beta tac res rules were released for those who seemingly don't understand what 'arrived' means.
Yes, it says "arrive", but then it gives the quotation that I provided. If we go with your interpretation, there would be no need for the quotation I provided, as anything that arrives, whether during deployment or on turn 1) would subsequently be able to use abilities, stratagems, etc. As they are explicitly making a distinction between units that are set up during deployment and units that set up during turn 1 by exempting those who deployed from the restrictions on subsequent abilities, etc., that means that it can't possibly mean that you can use the abilities after arriving in turn 1 to get outside the deployment zone. With them adding what I quoted, they have to be handling units that arrive in turn 1 different from those set up during deployment in relation to using abilities, stratagems, etc.
GW have stated that their Facebook page should not be used as a rules source.
The beta rule states that it affects units that arrive. The quotation you have provided is completely moot because it is a clarification and not a new ruling. I'm sure whoever wrote it did not think that it would be used to define what happens for the edge cases such as this.
The reason the Facebook post was made in the first place was because of a massive argument on here and on Facebook iirc regarding what 'arrived' means. I remember multiple topics getting extremely heated with people stating that GoI, Da Jump etc would not work under the beta ruling turn 1. The Facebook post was to clear that up. Nothing more. You're making things more complicated and thus making mistakes with your idea of the rules.
1. Has the unit arrived or is it arriving?
2. If it has already arrived then it can be moved with a power. If it is arriving with a power or via reinforcements it is subject to the ruling.
I don't understand why you think this is difficult to understand given that the Facebook post is not rule source. I'm also struggling to understand why you think RAW pre Facebook post the beta rule is any different to what I've stated in this thread and months ago?
I didn't think that somebody would say that a unit arriving on the board during turn 1 and the player wanting to try to get them out of the deployement zone is an "edge case".
Yes, the Facebook post is a clarification. It clarifies that the rule doesn't apply to units that have set up during deployment. It doesn't clarify that units arriving during turn one are free to do what they want later in the turn to get out of the deployment zone; it reserved that for those that are deployed previous to turn one.
I'm sure whoever wrote it thought out what they were saying, given that there would be no need for half of what he said if your interpretation is correct but everything he said would be pertinent for my reading.
You're right that it isn't complicated. Was the unit set up on the board during deployment? Yes, it can use powers and abilities turn 1 to get out of the deployement zone. If it's being brought in turn 1, it can't.
The clarification says that units that were set up during deployment can use abilities, psychic powers, stratagems, etc that was being limited by the beta rule. If you arrive on the board turn 1, those retrictions still apply to you. If you deep strike by whatever method, you don't suddenly get immunity from the limitation of not getting to use a psychic power to take you half way across the board. That's the price you pay for keeping them in reserves until turn one.
But, if you want to insist like BCB that Facebook isn't a rules source, then you need to go with BCB's conclusion that you're not allowed to move anybody out with abilities or stratagems or psychic powers during turn 1 because units are moved off the board, and the rules say that when they combe back on the board turn 1 they are refinforcements. You want to the part of the clarification that you like but want to ignore the rest of what they say in the clarification.
doctortom wrote: I didn't think that somebody would say that a unit arriving on the board during turn 1 and the player wanting to try to get them out of the deployement zone is an "edge case".
Yes, the Facebook post is a clarification. It clarifies that the rule doesn't apply to units that have set up during deployment. It doesn't clarify that units arriving during turn one are free to do what they want later in the turn to get out of the deployment zone; it reserved that for those that are deployed previous to turn one.
I'm sure whoever wrote it thought out what they were saying, given that there would be no need for half of what he said if your interpretation is correct but everything he said would be pertinent for my reading.
You're right that it isn't complicated. Was the unit set up on the board during deployment? Yes, it can use powers and abilities turn 1 to get out of the deployement zone. If it's being brought in turn 1, it can't.
The clarification says that units that were set up during deployment can use abilities, psychic powers, stratagems, etc that was being limited by the beta rule. If you arrive on the board turn 1, those retrictions still apply to you. If you deep strike by whatever method, you don't suddenly get immunity from the limitation of not getting to use a psychic power to take you half way across the board. That's the price you pay for keeping them in reserves until turn one.
But, if you want to insist like BCB that Facebook isn't a rules source, then you need to go with BCB's conclusion that you're not allowed to move anybody out with abilities or stratagems or psychic powers during turn 1 because units are moved off the board, and the rules say that when they combe back on the board turn 1 they are refinforcements. You want to the part of the clarification that you like but want to ignore the rest of what they say in the clarification.
Show me where the rules say that a unit coming back on to the board are defined as 'reinforcements' and explain clearly why this would mean that the unit is 'arriving' on to the battlefield and hasn't already arrived?
No, I don't need to go with your or BCBs conclusion because they are both wrong.
I don't care about the clarification. It is exactly what you've described - a clarification. Nothing more, nothing less. It does not provide new rules or information, it merely clarifies what many of us already knew. Units on the board can be moved via psychic powers and the like, units not on the board can't drop in outside of their deployment turn 1.
Please don't make assumptions about what I want or don't want. There is no personal interest in what I'm saying, I'm merely trying to help clarify the rules for those of you who continually seem to misunderstand them.
Doctortom and An Actual Englishman, please use spoiler tags or stop hitting quote on huge text blocks over repeated posts, you're making the thread unreadable!
You can use quote tags but you need to edit them down to only quote the relevant section, or maybe a single full post or two, but not post after post after post!
Any questions, just PM me - thanks
And while I typed this, it happened again - this time, quoting the post directly above yours in full.
If there are no intervening posts, you don't need to hit "Quote". Just hit "Reply", rather than copying the full text of the post immediately preceding yours. This is basic forum etiquette - if it isn't clear, please just ask me anything via PM.
What the Facebook page actually says on the matter:
And a quick note on rules questions - we can’t give you official answers. We’re not the Games Designers, they’re locked up in the studio. We might be able to give you some general advice or point you in the right direction but better to try and work it out with your gaming buddies.
The Facebook guy can't give official answers, but they never say that the Game Designers can't use the Facebook page to post clarifications via infographics, etc.
RiTides - understood, on phone so editing difficult.
Ghaz - clarifications aren't rules sources and don't change the rules themselves. They merely give you ideas on how they operate, this case being a perfect example.
RiTides wrote: If there are no intervening posts, you don't need to hit "Quote". Just hit "Reply", rather than copying the full text of the post immediately preceding yours. This is basic forum etiquette - if it isn't clear, please just ask me anything via PM.
Off Topic: I actually prefer the quotes because it prevents (or at least deters) edit shenanigans.
@Ghaz: Exactly my point. "we can’t give you official answers. We’re not the Games Designers". If the FB page incorrectly said "Ultramarines have BS1+", it wouldn't be rules, this is no different to them posting an incorrect image about how a beta rule works.
RiTides wrote: If there are no intervening posts, you don't need to hit "Quote". Just hit "Reply", rather than copying the full text of the post immediately preceding yours. This is basic forum etiquette - if it isn't clear, please just ask me anything via PM.
Off Topic: I actually prefer the quotes because it prevents (or at least deters) edit shenanigans.
@Ghaz: Exactly my point. "we can’t give you official answers. We’re not the Games Designers". If the FB page incorrectly said "Ultramarines have BS1+", it wouldn't be rules, this is no different to them posting an incorrect image about how a beta rule works.
We heard you the other times you said this. ;-)
I kid, but let’s not go down the rabbit hole again on this one yet again. We know all the regulars‘ viewpoints by now, and repeatedly airing them will in no way align everyone.
RiTides wrote: If there are no intervening posts, you don't need to hit "Quote". Just hit "Reply", rather than copying the full text of the post immediately preceding yours. This is basic forum etiquette - if it isn't clear, please just ask me anything via PM.
Off Topic: I actually prefer the quotes because it prevents (or at least deters) edit shenanigans.
@Ghaz: Exactly my point. "we can’t give you official answers. We’re not the Games Designers". If the FB page incorrectly said "Ultramarines have BS1+", it wouldn't be rules, this is no different to them posting an incorrect image about how a beta rule works.
THEY didn't give the rules answer
They conveyed the rules answer given to the:
It's not a tricky distinction to make, its one you are entirely aware of, and your continued obtuseness in deliberately lying about both what they actually said, and what that means, demeans you.
If I made a gif saying "People with names beginning with B automatically win." would you consider that rules too? Also, saying "any tournament" is a misnomer because I am running a tournament right now and that is not the case, so you're provably wrong. Also, also, Tournament House rules have no bearing on what the actual rules are.
