This video got me thinking. What new playable factions/races would you like to see make their debut in say, 8th or 9th edition? Are there any other options lore wise besides the Interex, Men of Iron, Rak'gol and Squats mentioned in the above video? Got any other ideas for faction/race concepts that either you came up with or which haven't made an appearance in 40k lore wise? Feel free to discuss this topic to your hearts content. Thank you and have a good day. Take care now.
There isn't anything that's viable without new additions to the fluff. Tau Human Auxiliary can be done in Narrative play already. None of the other Tau client races are suitable for a 40k level battlefield.
BaconCatBug wrote: There isn't anything that's viable without new additions to the fluff. Tau Human Auxiliary can be done in Narrative play already. None of the other Tau client races are suitable for a 40k level battlefield.
Kroot and Vespid definitely can be expanded upon. Demiurg's are 100% suitable, and Human aux should be allowed in matched play. Also, plenty of Minor Xenos empire larger than the Tau exist. Hrud? Q'orl? A few others I think too.
Dear god why?40K is already ridiculously bloated and needs a severe trimming of all the factions present along with an excessive amount of work to provide even a semblance of balance? Why do you want to add to the complexity, further bloating the amount of stats that need be tweaking and increasing the time to playtest across factions? 40K doesn't need any more factions and if you want to field some obscure Xenos race that doesn't even have a significant presence in the Lore, just use Tau, Tyranid, or Necron rules and proxy models.
BaconCatBug wrote: There isn't anything that's viable without new additions to the fluff. Tau Human Auxiliary can be done in Narrative play already. None of the other Tau client races are suitable for a 40k level battlefield.
Kroot and Vespid definitely can be expanded upon. Demiurg's are 100% suitable, and Human aux should be allowed in matched play. Also, plenty of Minor Xenos empire larger than the Tau exist. Hrud? Q'orl? A few others I think too.
Demiurg are entirely spacebound. They are like the T'au Air Caste.
I not sure if I want to see the men of iron, but a empire ruled by one. Has potential for different alien races. Some dark, and some light themes.
Also chance to get some of those obscure races as mercenary forces under one banner.
And let them ally with other army’s, particular if this new faction sees the imperium as a threat for some reason.
But I think GW does need to focus a bit more on what they have, some of the current factions need some love. Outside of the current GW it’s new buy it and that’s the only thought we had when we designed the model.
Wyzilla wrote: Dear god why?40K is already ridiculously bloated and needs a severe trimming of all the factions present along with an excessive amount of work to provide even a semblance of balance? Why do you want to add to the complexity, further bloating the amount of stats that need be tweaking and increasing the time to playtest across factions? 40K doesn't need any more factions and if you want to field some obscure Xenos race that doesn't even have a significant presence in the Lore, just use Tau, Tyranid, or Necron rules and proxy models.
Reduce the Imperium and Chaos to a single, albeit large, faction each and expend on new xenos and you have solved your problem of bloat and made the galaxy a lot less empty.
Wyzilla wrote: Dear god why?40K is already ridiculously bloated and needs a severe trimming of all the factions present along with an excessive amount of work to provide even a semblance of balance? Why do you want to add to the complexity, further bloating the amount of stats that need be tweaking and increasing the time to playtest across factions? 40K doesn't need any more factions and if you want to field some obscure Xenos race that doesn't even have a significant presence in the Lore, just use Tau, Tyranid, or Necron rules and proxy models.
Reduce the Imperium and Chaos to a single, albeit large, faction each and expend on new xenos and you have solved your problem of bloat and made the galaxy a lot less empty.
1 large faction, the troop choices would be larger than some factions have in their other slots:
Wyzilla wrote: Dear god why?40K is already ridiculously bloated and needs a severe trimming of all the factions present along with an excessive amount of work to provide even a semblance of balance? Why do you want to add to the complexity, further bloating the amount of stats that need be tweaking and increasing the time to playtest across factions? 40K doesn't need any more factions and if you want to field some obscure Xenos race that doesn't even have a significant presence in the Lore, just use Tau, Tyranid, or Necron rules and proxy models.
Reduce the Imperium and Chaos to a single, albeit large, faction each and expend on new xenos and you have solved your problem of bloat and made the galaxy a lot less empty.
1 large faction, the troop choices would be larger than some factions have in their other slots:
I reduced it to Guard Platoon (which can now take sentinels in option), Skitarri Maniple (kind of like Guard Platoon but with skitarii and kataphron instead) and Sisters of Battle. Space Marines are an elite choice. Most of these units can be crammed in the same profile, but with options for different loadouts and doctrines.
Wyzilla wrote: Dear god why?40K is already ridiculously bloated and needs a severe trimming of all the factions present along with an excessive amount of work to provide even a semblance of balance? Why do you want to add to the complexity, further bloating the amount of stats that need be tweaking and increasing the time to playtest across factions? 40K doesn't need any more factions and if you want to field some obscure Xenos race that doesn't even have a significant presence in the Lore, just use Tau, Tyranid, or Necron rules and proxy models.
Reduce the Imperium and Chaos to a single, albeit large, faction each and expend on new xenos and you have solved your problem of bloat and made the galaxy a lot less empty.
No, because those units still exist even in one codex, only now you have to balance even more factions. We don't need any new factions. They add nothing to the story, they add nothing to game, and can be more or less represented by extant armies. Their inclusion does nothing but throw a wrench into everything from BS'ing them into somehow being a major player at all (which has already been poorly received with the Tau over the years) and shoving a whole new faction into the game. We don't need a constant, rampant of production of new toys simply because a minority are bored with the current ones. At most what could be added is more beastmen options - anything else is galactic non-factors with a fainter footprint than the Tau. It's also hard to give a new faction any kind of faction theme that isn't already covered by the plethora of current factions.
Yeah, because we all know that there's zero options for our 6x4 tables to represent portions of ships/space stations big enough to host a 40k scale battle....
Wyzilla wrote: Dear god why?40K is already ridiculously bloated and needs a severe trimming of all the factions present along with an excessive amount of work to provide even a semblance of balance? Why do you want to add to the complexity, further bloating the amount of stats that need be tweaking and increasing the time to playtest across factions? 40K doesn't need any more factions and if you want to field some obscure Xenos race that doesn't even have a significant presence in the Lore, just use Tau, Tyranid, or Necron rules and proxy models.
Reduce the Imperium and Chaos to a single, albeit large, faction each and expend on new xenos and you have solved your problem of bloat and made the galaxy a lot less empty.
No, because those units still exist even in one codex, only now you have to balance even more factions. We don't need any new factions. They add nothing to the story, they add nothing to game, and can be more or less represented by extant armies. Their inclusion does nothing but throw a wrench into everything from BS'ing them into somehow being a major player at all (which has already been poorly received with the Tau over the years) and shoving a whole new faction into the game. We don't need a constant, rampant of production of new toys simply because a minority are bored with the current ones. At most what could be added is more beastmen options - anything else is galactic non-factors with a fainter footprint than the Tau. It's also hard to give a new faction any kind of faction theme that isn't already covered by the plethora of current factions.
RnH could use an official GW line. Beastmen, Traitor Guardsmen, Berserker Ogryns, the whole thing.
No, because those units still exist even in one codex,
Several units would get on the chopping block and disapear in such a move. There is a lot units within the Imperium that suffer from a "starbuck" problem.
They add nothing to the story
Only if you don't give them a story or decide not to do anything interesting with them.
they add nothing to game
Only if you don't give them an interesting design for modelism purpose or an interesting game mechanic or at least one that could be exploited further.
and can be more or less represented by extant armies.
Which especially true with the 6 different flavor of marines. Just give them a different paint job and maybe a special rule/stratagem/gimmick and call it a day.
Their inclusion does nothing but throw a wrench into everything from BS'ing them into somehow being a major player at all (which has already been poorly received with the Tau over the years) and shoving a whole new faction into the game.
Taus are rather popular these days and have been essential for some very cool stories. Sure, the hardcore conservative fanbase will flip their guns at the idea that the lore of 40K being changed, perhapse even retconned to add a new major faction, but in the end it would be better. The galaxy 200 million stars with something like ten times more planets has only three large empires in it and one smaller, but growing.
Taus are rather popular these days and have been essential for some very cool stories. Sure, the hardcore conservative fanbase will flip their guns at the idea that the lore of 40K being changed, perhapse even retconned to add a new major faction, but in the end it would be better. The galaxy 200 million stars with something like ten times more planets has only three large empires in it and one smaller, but growing.
Agree here. I really wished they just retconned Tau into being bigger, its such an annoyance to keep them small and basically out of conflicts. Also would remove the comments about Tau not mattering.
Taus are rather popular these days and have been essential for some very cool stories. Sure, the hardcore conservative fanbase will flip their guns at the idea that the lore of 40K being changed, perhapse even retconned to add a new major faction, but in the end it would be better. The galaxy 200 million stars with something like ten times more planets has only three large empires in it and one smaller, but growing.
Agree here. I really wished they just retconned Tau into being bigger, its such an annoyance to keep them small and basically out of conflicts. Also would remove the comments about Tau not mattering.
Lost colonies for the Taus would have been a good excuse. Just say that colony ships got caught in a wierd space phenomenon and were stranted on the other side of the galaxy or hitched a ride on Kroot sphere which can travel far further then Tau ships.
I would like to see a 'Dogs of War' army in 40k like how WHFB back in 5th ed. You can have many mercs with reputation that allow themselves to be hired by certain faction keywords, positive and negative bonuses for and against as well.
Rak'gol could be really cool. They'd be very unique and fit their own niche. They have enough lore to work with, but not too much to where they can't be massively expanded on. It wouldn't be too hard to write them into the fluff either.
Dark Mechanicus could be really cool. Tons of opportunities to go wild with creativity.
I'd be up for Men-of-Iron getting a Custodes/Harlequins-style mini-dex.
AI insurgents! count me in! It be similar to Genestealer Cult, but for the machine side of things, and is an infinitely more interesting background, IMO option, for a robot army, than the dull plumbers/evil-plumbers of 40K, Mario/Wario fluff for Admech/DarkAdmech.
BaconCatBug wrote: Demiurg are entirely spacebound. They are like the T'au Air Caste.
You are confusing the Demiurg with the Nicassar, I'm afraid. And even with them, it probably wouldn't be too hard to generate a battlesuit which provides an in internal zero g environment in order to put Psykers on the ground.
Not saying I'm an advocate of that any more than having a Gue'la Psyker on the board, but I think that such a concept has possibilities.
I think there are already too many factions and subfactions. I'd condense the entire 40k universe into 10 codexes at most. We definitely don't need other stuff that become independent and stand alone. Completely new races maybe, but not more division.
I'd hate 3 different codexes for kabals, wych cults and covens even if they all get some new kits and units.
Chaos cults, which Blackstone has given me far too much optimism for.
Some range expansion for ad mech and genestealer cults (yeah, bikes, whatever, don't care)
New xenos with some classic xenos pets, like ambulls.
They can push out of the halo stars or whatever, but something that wants to assert themselves in a sane and coherent way in face of the warp scar and the imperium being cut in half.
Men of iron I'd rather not see outside that throw away model. AI revolts are boring, predictable and irrelevant to the 40k setting.
None. I'd say GW has slowly crept over "max capacity" in the past 5-6 years. They now have more factions than they can properly support with model releases, inclusion in content (i.e. campaigns etc.). I think business-wise, new factions are probably a huge earner for them, but all of the other factions suffer. I think we're overflowing at the moment.
GW's current method of "wave of models" followed by 3-4 years of radio silence for a single race or faction is hurting the consumer base --- assuming that consumer base doesn't move onto new and shiny factions (likely what GW wants).
I don't fault them for this as they've done all the metrics and nonsense to determine what method provides them the best return on investment...but as a player, more factions is actually worse in the long run. We're already at, what...25? And many armies are still pushing around metal from 20-25 years ago. That's a poor state of affairs - again, only from the consumer standpoint, not GW's wallet.
Honestly, I agree that there is too much going on right now. However, I would love to see a none humanoid army, something with a bit more character than tyranids.
Hrud, Squats, Dark Mechanicum, Men of Iron, Enslavers w/slave armies, Adeptus Arbites, The Return of Malice (5th chaos god), Exodites, Space Lizardmen/Slann, More fleshed out inquisition, Harlequins and sisters of silence....
I'm just gonna copy & paste some faction ideas I saw in the comment section of that video. Mainly because I really like these two ideas in particular.
"Something that the Traditional Gaming board of 4chan came up with was effectively Daemon Taming Space Tibetans. I believe it was called the 108 Pearls of Perfection, a collection of planets ruled and protected by psyker monks who, through intense self-discipline and control, could shape daemons into more usable servants and maintain their personalities when possessed. Tech level was on par with the Imperium if I recall when it came to non-psyker troops." - Quote #1
"I would like to see the Traders becoming their own factions, of course not all Traders but a group of very powerful and wealthy Traders deciding that a section of the Galaxy belongs to them at which point they carve out a piece and establish a free trade "city" kind of like Venice back in the day. Their army should have a mercenary feel and include aliens. Their attitude to others should be business like but guarded and their main traits should be greed and a strict hierarchy based on wealth and connections. The power should be split among the founding Trader clans as well as one or two newcomers that climbed up from below. They should not act as one but see it as a beneficial partnership most of the time although at times a few clans could work together but unless their civilization faces imminent destruction there would never be a situation where all their interests align. They are not interested in expanding their territory aside from striking out to set up temporary mining and other resource colonies." - Quote #2
"I would love to see some relics of the Old ones maybe sentient machine they created and that were reactivated accidentally by some explorer. Another of their "weapons" created to fight against the C'tan. Even a descendant species that have some of their technologies and want to reclaim their ancestors realm." - Quote #3
That's my two (or rather three, technically) cents on the matter. There were other comments with ideas I liked, but I left them out because of time constraints/laziness.
This, but a close second would be if they made some inquisition forces. I understand that they released some neat models in the past, and it would be really nice if they made some 8th edition rules to make them playable.
I want all my stuff that has models but no/non-functional rules (Corsairs, the Ordo Reductor, Grey Knights, the other 2/3rds of the Custodians book...).
Then I want plastics for everything currently stuck in metal/Finecast (Aspects, Sisters, half the Dark Eldar range...), and updates for all the twenty-year-old plastic kits that are grotesquely out of scale with the modern game but we're expected to use anyway (Guardians, Guardsmen, Orks, 3/4 of the tanks...).
In fact so many of these niche factions need to be combined into existing dexes so BALANCE is possible...
Sisters of Silence, Assassins, Astra Telepathica, Grey Knights should all be rolled into a codex.
Renegade Guard, Dark Mechanicus, Gellerpox, Servants of the Abyss etc etc etc should be combined with Chaos.
Eldar Corsairs recombined with Aeldari, Ynarri should be combined with Harlequins.
We need to cut out the bloat, not add to it.
The bloat and unbalance that comes with it isn't caused by the number of models and factions, but by its span. You can have a game with half a million different type of infantry and have a balanced game. It's the fact 40K has range that goes from gretchins to Imperial Knights and superheavy tanks passing by giant monsters that causes the most balance issues. Calling for rolling factions into one or against adding new factions isn't going to change anything.
Dark Mechancium is really the only faction I think I'd like to see added at this point. After that, I personally think the 40K factions are complete enough, and that all work should be used to extend the exiting ranges.
The problem with recombining is that we already have units in each codex that are almost never taken. Combining codexes just means there will be a substantially more of those dead weight units.
Now, there is another way of recombining. Recombine and then have sub-factions just like the Drukhari codex did. That way all the Aeldari units could in one big megatome even though they all play very differently with some of the units being somewhat agnostic(perhaps rangers and corsair like units, Harlequins, and Drukhari mercenaries).
The only problem people might have with that is the fact that this would cement faction soup as a thing.
Um, very few people have actually mentioned new factions. They've mentioned factions that exist in 40K, just maybe not in model form as yet.
Though, I do have to agree that some armies need to be adjusted. Do we really need a codex very every First Founding Chapter? Technically speaking, all of the Imperium should be in one book if we're going to stick all of Chaos in to one book.
Um, very few people have actually mentioned new factions. They've mentioned factions that exist in 40K, just maybe not in model form as yet.
Though, I do have to agree that some armies need to be adjusted. Do we really need a codex very every First Founding Chapter? Technically speaking, all of the Imperium should be in one book if we're going to stick all of Chaos in to one book.
Um, very few people have actually mentioned new factions. They've mentioned factions that exist in 40K, just maybe not in model form as yet.
Though, I do have to agree that some armies need to be adjusted. Do we really need a codex very every First Founding Chapter? Technically speaking, all of the Imperium should be in one book if we're going to stick all of Chaos in to one book.
Still have my Angels of Death Codex. Would not mind if Blood Angels and Dark Angels would be combined back again into such a codex.
Um, very few people have actually mentioned new factions. They've mentioned factions that exist in 40K, just maybe not in model form as yet.
Though, I do have to agree that some armies need to be adjusted. Do we really need a codex very every First Founding Chapter? Technically speaking, all of the Imperium should be in one book if we're going to stick all of Chaos in to one book.
This drives me crazy every time I see it suggested. If you put all the IOM stuff in one book it would be bigger than a text book and cost 200+ dollars. That ship sailed as early as 5th edition if not earlier and is not a viable idea at this point.
Um, very few people have actually mentioned new factions. They've mentioned factions that exist in 40K, just maybe not in model form as yet.
Though, I do have to agree that some armies need to be adjusted. Do we really need a codex very every First Founding Chapter? Technically speaking, all of the Imperium should be in one book if we're going to stick all of Chaos in to one book.
But Chaos isnt all in one book any more...
I was referencing a part I did not quote.
iGuy91 wrote:Renegade Guard, Dark Mechanicus, Gellerpox, Servants of the Abyss etc etc etc should be combined with Chaos.
That one, which was basically the same thing as combining all of the Imperium in to one book.
Um, very few people have actually mentioned new factions. They've mentioned factions that exist in 40K, just maybe not in model form as yet.
Though, I do have to agree that some armies need to be adjusted. Do we really need a codex very every First Founding Chapter? Technically speaking, all of the Imperium should be in one book if we're going to stick all of Chaos in to one book.
This drives me crazy every time I see it suggested. If you put all the IOM stuff in one book it would be bigger than a text book and cost 200+ dollars. That ship sailed as early as 5th edition if not earlier and is not a viable idea at this point.
Very true, that's one of the reasons I put in the "if" statment in to it. Now, a lot of the Imperium and Chaos should be quandranted, but some of it is very silly. Death Watch, Legion of the Damned, Inquisition, Custodes, Grey Knights, and Sisters should only be their own thing in Kill Team, while augments to the Imperial Guard or Marines outside it. The Knights would fit in to that category if they didn't cost more than a Kill Team and be completely inappropriate for the setting.
Chaos is largely the same, but I would stick them in to the Dedicated and the Renegades, myself.
As for new races bring in expansion on the Tau allied races. Demiurg, Gue´vesa and tarrelians. If a new faction and race I think the rakghoul would make a good codex with their primitive yet deadly weaponry or the Q'Orl since they are an established empire in the lore.
I would rather see them add things to Kill Team or Blackstone than more half assed mini codexes. The smaller scale games are a better venue for the more background races rather than trying to shoehorn them into full factions.
- Eldar Exodites (as the Dragon Riders always sounded cool)
- Space Dwarves (probably renaming the Squats to something a touch less daft, with some of the Kharadron aesthetic)
- Dark Ad Mech (if they can get some solid concepts for it)
- Kroot Mercs (if only so we can get an official Vultures kit - with a fez!)
I'd like to see an expansion wave for some of the smaller factions too, either adding new options (Ad Mech - Skitarii HQ, an in-Codex transport, some more armoured vehicles) or bringing back excised options (Dark Eldar, at a minimum, with characters/aliens).
Give me Dark Mechanicum and Lost and the Damned as full Citadel supported armies and I'll be happy as a clam. Did you see those models in Black Fortress?
Hatachi wrote: Give me Dark Mechanicum and Lost and the Damned as full Citadel supported armies and I'll be happy as a clam. Did you see those models in Black Fortress?
This. Idk why they aren't GW armies in the first place tbh.
DM would be much better on their own than a skin-cover.
Its been recorded in many recent books (such as the BL Trilogy) that Mechanicum units have survived since the Heresy. Who would love to see Warped-up Thallax Cohorts? I would deffo for one!
Agreed. I think gw needs to first focus on refreshing older kits then possibly expanding on some factions.
But id be interested in traitor guard/chaos cults.. Or some sort of giant space station of scum and villainy, all the freaks and outcasts of 40k under some sort of pirate like banner. Could get some pretty cool units out of that. All the stuff they might want to design but doesn't fit in any particular faction.
Sir Heckington wrote:I'd say a Tau Aux army, and probably the Hrud. Maybe the Q'orl, the bug people who have more personality than Tyranids while still being cool bugs?
Those are some good choices as well. Especially if the Hrud and Q'Orl where given their own client races to lord over like the Tau have the Kroot and Vespids.
Kroot and Vespid definitely can be expanded upon. Demiurg's are 100% suitable, and Human aux should be allowed in matched play. Also, plenty of Minor Xenos empire larger than the Tau exist. Hrud? Q'orl? A few others I think too.
Yeah, any client race of the Tau would be a good addition in my book. Especially if they can be labeled as sub-factions within the Tau Empire. Kind of like how the Imperium of Man and Chaos have a buttload of sub-factions within their ranks.
Racerguy180 wrote:SQUATS
I would love for Dark Mech to get some love.
Exodites would be rad, dino riders and all.
Aren't the Dark Mech already playable in Kill Team? Or was that not the case at the time of your post? I remember seeing someone play an Ad Mech Kill Team squad in my FLGS a while back.
Apple fox wrote:I not sure if I want to see the men of iron, but a empire ruled by one. Has potential for different alien races. Some dark, and some light themes.
Also chance to get some of those obscure races as mercenary forces under one banner.
And let them ally with other army’s, particular if this new faction sees the imperium as a threat for some reason.
But I think GW does need to focus a bit more on what they have, some of the current factions need some love. Outside of the current GW it’s new buy it and that’s the only thought we had when we designed the model.
Any new faction that can give us more options for vassal races is fine by me. Though I would honestly prefer if the Men of Iron became a full fledged faction because AI rebellions are pretty cool in my book.
epronovost wrote:
Wyzilla wrote: Dear god why?40K is already ridiculously bloated and needs a severe trimming of all the factions present along with an excessive amount of work to provide even a semblance of balance? Why do you want to add to the complexity, further bloating the amount of stats that need be tweaking and increasing the time to playtest across factions? 40K doesn't need any more factions and if you want to field some obscure Xenos race that doesn't even have a significant presence in the Lore, just use Tau, Tyranid, or Necron rules and proxy models.
Reduce the Imperium and Chaos to a single, albeit large, faction each and expend on new xenos and you have solved your problem of bloat and made the galaxy a lot less empty.
I wouldn't mind if the Imperium and Chaos where combined into one big codex. Whether or not that's a realistic goal, on the other hand, is a completely different matter altogether.
Techpriestsupport wrote:The old ones returned. Slann armies.
Yes. More obscure factions getting the spotlight would be great.
Voss wrote:Chaos cults, which Blackstone has given me far too much optimism for.
Some range expansion for ad mech and genestealer cults (yeah, bikes, whatever, don't care)
New xenos with some classic xenos pets, like ambulls.
They can push out of the halo stars or whatever, but something that wants to assert themselves in a sane and coherent way in face of the warp scar and the imperium being cut in half.
Men of iron I'd rather not see outside that throw away model. AI revolts are boring, predictable and irrelevant to the 40k setting.
Blackstone Fortress is a godsend to those who love to speculate about future 40k units appearing in the game.
Fair enough. I was just going by what those YouTube commenters where saying anyways.
Eldarsif wrote:The problem with recombining is that we already have units in each codex that are almost never taken. Combining codexes just means there will be a substantially more of those dead weight units.
Now, there is another way of recombining. Recombine and then have sub-factions just like the Drukhari codex did. That way all the Aeldari units could in one big megatome even though they all play very differently with some of the units being somewhat agnostic(perhaps rangers and corsair like units, Harlequins, and Drukhari mercenaries).
The only problem people might have with that is the fact that this would cement faction soup as a thing.
Someone on this thread also said that Combining Codexes would lead to the Imperium Codex being larger and more expensive. Though if we were to make the Imperium more equal to the other factions, perhaps they could add subfactions to Chaos, Orks, Necrons, Eldar, Tyranids, Tau and what have you. But again, I'm not sure how viable that would be as an option. I'm just spitballing some ideas here.
The Green one wrote:As for new races bring in expansion on the Tau allied races. Demiurg, Gue´vesa and tarrelians. If a new faction and race I think the rakghoul would make a good codex with their primitive yet deadly weaponry or the Q'Orl since they are an established empire in the lore.
Tarrelians would be a good auxiliary force to add to the Tau's ranks in terms of models. But aren't the Demiurg just rebooted Squats?
HoundsofDemos wrote:I would rather see them add things to Kill Team or Blackstone than more half assed mini codexes. The smaller scale games are a better venue for the more background races rather than trying to shoehorn them into full factions.
That's a good option as well.
Dysartes wrote:- Eldar Exodites (as the Dragon Riders always sounded cool)
- Space Dwarves (probably renaming the Squats to something a touch less daft, with some of the Kharadron aesthetic)
- Dark Ad Mech (if they can get some solid concepts for it)
- Kroot Mercs (if only so we can get an official Vultures kit - with a fez!)
I'd like to see an expansion wave for some of the smaller factions too, either adding new options (Ad Mech - Skitarii HQ, an in-Codex transport, some more armoured vehicles) or bringing back excised options (Dark Eldar, at a minimum, with characters/aliens).
I agree, 40k definitely needs some Space Dwarves of some kind within their canon.
Hatachi wrote:Give me Dark Mechanicum and Lost and the Damned as full Citadel supported armies and I'll be happy as a clam. Did you see those models in Black Fortress?
I'm with you there buddy. The Lost and the Damned need to make a comeback real badly.
Find the idea of allowing "primatives" in the game appealing, when I started all this mumbles years ago there was even rules for doing it - specifically taking WHFB armies and facing them off against 40k ones, which wasn't as unbalanced as you may expect.
would hope AoS and 40k eventually get back to where thats possible (by adding a bit more to AoS ideally, not stripping 40k down more)
would also like to see, but doubt I ever will, something akin to Mantics "Uncharted Empires" for 40k, i.e. generic rules for generic trope armies to allow other peoples models into the universe - most of the other models, not all but most, don't look anything like as good so I doubt GW have anything to actually fear here
but the idea of 40k allowing you to say see what a few squads of marines could have done at Waterloo, or something akin to Zulu is interesting.
in terms of GW property, would quite like to see Skaven in 40k, something lurking under hive worlds, stowaways on lower decks of transports, mix of low tech, stolen high tech and warp stuff
Hatachi wrote: Give me Dark Mechanicum and Lost and the Damned as full Citadel supported armies and I'll be happy as a clam. Did you see those models in Black Fortress?
This. Idk why they aren't GW armies in the first place tbh.
I mean they are the rules just are dogshite or cut away in the process.....
Sometimes i wish 7th back and my good old army of r&h dark magos shenanigans. Until i realize that 7th was even less usefull then the new FW indexes....
Wyzilla wrote: Dear god why?40K is already ridiculously bloated and needs a severe trimming of all the factions present along with an excessive amount of work to provide even a semblance of balance? Why do you want to add to the complexity, further bloating the amount of stats that need be tweaking and increasing the time to playtest across factions? 40K doesn't need any more factions and if you want to field some obscure Xenos race that doesn't even have a significant presence in the Lore, just use Tau, Tyranid, or Necron rules and proxy models.
Reduce the Imperium and Chaos to a single, albeit large, faction each and expend on new xenos and you have solved your problem of bloat and made the galaxy a lot less empty.
so drasticly trim down existing product line, some of which are your most popular ones, to introduce new armies with no garentee of popularity? yeah no.
As for armies to bring in, I'd like to see Tau Auxilleries. they could easily expand on this to produce several new armies. People seem to want more Xenos, but I think it's easier and safer to introduce new armies that can tie into soup with existing armies, and Tau are one of the easier Xenos races for this.
Wyzilla wrote: Dear god why?40K is already ridiculously bloated and needs a severe trimming of all the factions present along with an excessive amount of work to provide even a semblance of balance? Why do you want to add to the complexity, further bloating the amount of stats that need be tweaking and increasing the time to playtest across factions? 40K doesn't need any more factions and if you want to field some obscure Xenos race that doesn't even have a significant presence in the Lore, just use Tau, Tyranid, or Necron rules and proxy models.
Reduce the Imperium and Chaos to a single, albeit large, faction each and expend on new xenos and you have solved your problem of bloat and made the galaxy a lot less empty.
No, because those units still exist even in one codex, only now you have to balance even more factions. We don't need any new factions. They add nothing to the story, they add nothing to game, and can be more or less represented by extant armies. Their inclusion does nothing but throw a wrench into everything from BS'ing them into somehow being a major player at all (which has already been poorly received with the Tau over the years) and shoving a whole new faction into the game. We don't need a constant, rampant of production of new toys simply because a minority are bored with the current ones. At most what could be added is more beastmen options - anything else is galactic non-factors with a fainter footprint than the Tau. It's also hard to give a new faction any kind of faction theme that isn't already covered by the plethora of current factions.
I agree, all the different marines + custodes should be rolled into one book to remove all of the bloat.
New Faction? Rogue Trader, using space ship crew, mercenaries, and whatever to facilitate 'hostile take-overs'.
New Race? Squats, of course.
Though either of these would be do-able with the current rules and Codex crop.
I'd agree that the opportunity to add small factions through Kill Team is too good to pass up. Keep the interest in new models going, without the problems of a full support service from GW.
Men of Iron (not affiliated with the Imperium) - low count of insanely powerful but slow sentient machines. Think of Custodes/UR-025 level strong basic troops, or something similar to Geth from Mass Effect.
Non/Less-humanoid Xenos - Living goo, XCOM aliens, Reptilians and dragons, insectoids... Stellaris and other space games offer plenty of inspiration in this one.
Private Megacorporation / Rogue Trader's private system. - could be a conglomerate of different species or using Necromunda models.
Although the biggest issue for a new race is to make them unique, so it's not just some other army with different looks, which is unlikely we will see a new army, as most of the options are already present in some form.
+1 to no new races for me. We already have plenty and I'd like to see a reduction in some places. Dark Mechanicum is a good example of something that would just add to the bloat. Just use Ad Mech and convert some stuff. Is it perfect? No, but it's good enough. That's how people used to do a lot of these armies before GW produced models for them. I've seen Ad Mech armies made out of Guard or even using the old Eldar Codex in previous editions before they got their own book. I miss that kind of creativity that GW seems intent on completely stamping out.
If a new race was to be introduced the one question you'd have to answer would be "what makes them different on the tabletop". Any new army has to fill a niche that isn't currently occupied. Adding armies because they'd be cool is not a good reason to add to the bloat.
Slipspace wrote: I miss that kind of creativity that GW seems intent on completely stamping out.
How does GW stamp it out? I mean, they're all too happy to show off people's conversions on their social media and in White Dwarf. They're open about encouraging people to come up with their own house rules for things that aren't in the official rules.
I'd like for the various Tau client races to get more development. A couple of units and character types each would do, enough to do a Kill Team roster for all of them and to allow the possibility of them also fighting amongst themselves or allying with factions other than the Tau
I'd also like some new Adeptus Arbites, but I'm torn about those. They'd end up as a full army when all I really want is a unit or two to add to anImperial force. Like what happened with Grey Knights and Deathwatch.
Slipspace wrote: I miss that kind of creativity that GW seems intent on completely stamping out.
How does GW stamp it out? I mean, they're all too happy to show off people's conversions on their social media and in White Dwarf. They're open about encouraging people to come up with their own house rules for things that aren't in the official rules.
Their "no model no rules" policy and the release of new armies like Ad Mech is how they're stamping it out (or at least reducing exposure to it). It's not an official edict against anything, just a change in approach that's led to the same result. I'm not so sure I buy the idea that they're encouraging people to come up with their own house rules. Maybe it's just me, but I saw much more of that 20 years ago than I do now. GW like to pay lip service to their 3 ways to play but I don't see anywhere near the support for narrative and house rules as they had decades ago. Just my experience of it though, so YMMV.
If GW were to introduce any new factions they shoudl work on making sure each army has an ally.
Tau as mentioned should get a codex Tau allies or somethign as mentioned before, add a section for them to ally imperial guard and then an alien races fo rmroe kroot, vespid and maybe a new close combat more elite species so they have a good cc option. .
Orks should have some kind of ally as well and so should Necrons. Orks maybe expand grots and give them more guns to have mroe of a shooting option ally that is mroe reliable. (i would beg GW for no random shot or strength weapons in this codex so orks have a reliable gunfield as an ally). On the Necrons front maybe somehow work them in with men of Iron or something as newcrons seem moreopen to working with other species the remaining men of iron make contact and begin to grow with them? idk if that works but GW can figure somethign out.
Moriarty wrote:New Faction? Rogue Trader, using space ship crew, mercenaries, and whatever to facilitate 'hostile take-overs'.
New Race? Squats, of course.
Though either of these would be do-able with the current rules and Codex crop.
I'd agree that the opportunity to add small factions through Kill Team is too good to pass up. Keep the interest in new models going, without the problems of a full support service from GW.
Kill Team would definitely be an excellent way to introduce more factions, since such a small scale game would make the perfect testing ground for gauging the popularity of say, a potential Kroot or Vespid army. Also agree with you on the Rogue Trader front right there. If there's one Sci-Fi trope that's in dire need of tabletop representation, it's the MegaCorp trope.
Hawky wrote:What I'd like to see...
Men of Iron (not affiliated with the Imperium) - low count of insanely powerful but slow sentient machines. Think of Custodes/UR-025 level strong basic troops, or something similar to Geth from Mass Effect.
Non/Less-humanoid Xenos - Living goo, XCOM aliens, Reptilians and dragons, insectoids... Stellaris and other space games offer plenty of inspiration in this one.
Private Megacorporation / Rogue Trader's private system. - could be a conglomerate of different species or using Necromunda models.
Although the biggest issue for a new race is to make them unique, so it's not just some other army with different looks, which is unlikely we will see a new army, as most of the options are already present in some form.
Yes to Men of Iron and Rogue Traders. You could probably pull some less-humanoid race from the 40k lore as a faction if GW tried hard enough.
Dysartes wrote:
Slipspace wrote: Adding armies because they'd be cool is not a good reason to add to the bloat.
It's not a good reason? It's the best reason to add anything.
Agreed, rule of cool is one of the greatest reasons to add new armies to the game. You just have to justify that coolness with interesting ideas regarding mechanics and lore.
G00fySmiley wrote:If GW were to introduce any new factions they shoudl work on making sure each army has an ally.
Tau as mentioned should get a codex Tau allies or somethign as mentioned before, add a section for them to ally imperial guard and then an alien races fo rmroe kroot, vespid and maybe a new close combat more elite species so they have a good cc option. .
Orks should have some kind of ally as well and so should Necrons. Orks maybe expand grots and give them more guns to have mroe of a shooting option ally that is mroe reliable. (i would beg GW for no random shot or strength weapons in this codex so orks have a reliable gunfield as an ally). On the Necrons front maybe somehow work them in with men of Iron or something as newcrons seem moreopen to working with other species the remaining men of iron make contact and begin to grow with them? idk if that works but GW can figure somethign out.
I agree, the Imperium have a buttload of allies in the form of Space Marines, Imperial Guards, Sisters of Battle, and various other armies under the banner of the God-Emperor. The Tau obviously have a more easier potential to be given new allied armies since they have a bunch of vassal races at their disposal. Though I'm not too sure about the idea of giving Orks some allied armies since they're kind of a chaotic bunch that would probably have trouble maintaining foreign relations with friendly allies. On the other hand, I could totally see the Necrons and the Men of Iron working together since they're both robotic factions with possibly similar interests regarding fighting meatbags. Though I would rather have the Men of Iron be their own separate faction rather than a vassal of the Necrons.
The Tau Empire was listed as just one of many xenos empires struggling to survive and expand upon the fringes of the Imperium. If we're gonna add new factions, small xenos empires like the Tau are a great place to start.
Melissia wrote: The Tau Empire was listed as just one of many xenos empires struggling to survive and expand upon the fringes of the Imperium. If we're gonna add new factions, small xenos empires like the Tau are a great place to start.
... ya know, that's a neat idea for a chapter approved article, "xenos creation rules"
I'd be interested in a high tech, non-imperium, non-chaos human army. Something that's been isolated for millennia and popped back onto the galactic stage.
Could play them as "Hey weren't not mutants, or chaos! Join us fellow humans and throw off the yoke of your imperial oppressors!"
I think there was a story from the heresy era about the Interex? Not sure how you would make it work, as I feel it would basically be Tau with different looking toys.....in fact I might have an idea for my next army....hmmmmmm.
I know GW isn't likely to do it since outside of chaos they seem only interested in releasing new units not updating old units but I would rather them clean up the lingering fail cast/ metal models that remain for various factions.
Particularly for Eldar (an army I don't even play). Its ridiculous that a faction that is a cornerstone of the setting has half or more of it's range 15 plus years old.
Carnage43 wrote: I'd be interested in a high tech, non-imperium, non-chaos human army. Something that's been isolated for millennia and popped back onto the galactic stage.
Could play them as "Hey weren't not mutants, or chaos! Join us fellow humans and throw off the yoke of your imperial oppressors!"
I think there was a story from the heresy era about the Interex? Not sure how you would make it work, as I feel it would basically be Tau with different looking toys.....in fact I might have an idea for my next army....hmmmmmm.
Yeah, the Interex used to exist. They were wiped out by the Imperium. Apparently the Interex never read De Re Militari (where "If you want peace, prepare for war" came from) and didn't invest in military tech, so when the Imperium came by they got outgunned despite their overall more advanced technology.
It would be nice to see an Interex spiritual successor though. Maybe a fringe Imperial world that got its hand on some xeno tech, started to reverse engineer it and somehow began to take neighboring fringe worlds. The idea being that they are so far away that by the time the Imperium found out that they exist, they already captured a few worlds and set up a strong series of defenses.
Wyzilla wrote: Dear god why?40K is already ridiculously bloated and needs a severe trimming of all the factions present along with an excessive amount of work to provide even a semblance of balance? Why do you want to add to the complexity, further bloating the amount of stats that need be tweaking and increasing the time to playtest across factions? 40K doesn't need any more factions and if you want to field some obscure Xenos race that doesn't even have a significant presence in the Lore, just use Tau, Tyranid, or Necron rules and proxy models.
Reduce the Imperium and Chaos to a single, albeit large, faction each and expend on new xenos and you have solved your problem of bloat and made the galaxy a lot less empty.
No, because those units still exist even in one codex, only now you have to balance even more factions. We don't need any new factions. They add nothing to the story, they add nothing to game, and can be more or less represented by extant armies. Their inclusion does nothing but throw a wrench into everything from BS'ing them into somehow being a major player at all (which has already been poorly received with the Tau over the years) and shoving a whole new faction into the game. We don't need a constant, rampant of production of new toys simply because a minority are bored with the current ones. At most what could be added is more beastmen options - anything else is galactic non-factors with a fainter footprint than the Tau. It's also hard to give a new faction any kind of faction theme that isn't already covered by the plethora of current factions.
I agree, all the different marines + custodes should be rolled into one book to remove all of the bloat.
The bloat extends to any faction with multiple books. Likewise no new factions should be added (or units for that matter) because every single bloody thing you add to the came increases the data points which have to be balanced against each other - something GW already fails to do as they plainly don't even care about balancing a game. Anything added on top of what is already a crippled and decaying system void of any competent design will cause it to just come crumbling down from the bloat of a whole new fully fledged faction with all of the balancing needs that entails along with soup concerns. The only focus of GW should be trimming unit, wargear, and codices down so they have something that can actually be managed. Along with getting rid of sub-faction traits considering those have done nothing but thrown a further wrench into the system. You don't help 40K by throwing even more gak into the kitchen sink which is already putrescent and smelling of mold.
Slipspace wrote: Adding armies because they'd be cool is not a good reason to add to the bloat.
It's not a good reason? It's the best reason to add anything.
It's also subjective, though.
e.g. a lot of people think Primaris and Custodes are cool. I just see 'Slightly Bigger Marines' and 'Slightly Bigger Roman Marines'.Suffice to say, neither feels particularly cool or exciting to me.
You know, with the subfaction traits system they could probably just merge all of the Chapters in the same book and let the subfaction traits be the same as chapter traits.
The unique units available to each chapter could just use the keyword system.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: You know, with the subfaction traits system they could probably just merge all of the Chapters in the same book and let the subfaction traits be the same as chapter traits.
The unique units available to each chapter could just use the keyword system.
I don't want to have to spend money on BA, DA and Codex rules when I only play Space Wolves.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: You know, with the subfaction traits system they could probably just merge all of the Chapters in the same book and let the subfaction traits be the same as chapter traits.
The unique units available to each chapter could just use the keyword system.
I don't want to have to spend money on BA, DA and Codex rules when I only play Space Wolves.
So? I don't use Sautekh units, but Imotekh is still in my codex.
I have no intention of using Goffs, but Thraka, the goff relic and the goff trait is still there. Everyone else has to pay for rules they don't use, I don't see why marines should be any different.
Wyzilla wrote: Dear god why?40K is already ridiculously bloated and needs a severe trimming of all the factions present along with an excessive amount of work to provide even a semblance of balance? Why do you want to add to the complexity, further bloating the amount of stats that need be tweaking and increasing the time to playtest across factions? 40K doesn't need any more factions and if you want to field some obscure Xenos race that doesn't even have a significant presence in the Lore, just use Tau, Tyranid, or Necron rules and proxy models.
Reduce the Imperium and Chaos to a single, albeit large, faction each and expend on new xenos and you have solved your problem of bloat and made the galaxy a lot less empty.
No, because those units still exist even in one codex, only now you have to balance even more factions. We don't need any new factions. They add nothing to the story, they add nothing to game, and can be more or less represented by extant armies. Their inclusion does nothing but throw a wrench into everything from BS'ing them into somehow being a major player at all (which has already been poorly received with the Tau over the years) and shoving a whole new faction into the game. We don't need a constant, rampant of production of new toys simply because a minority are bored with the current ones. At most what could be added is more beastmen options - anything else is galactic non-factors with a fainter footprint than the Tau. It's also hard to give a new faction any kind of faction theme that isn't already covered by the plethora of current factions.
I agree, all the different marines + custodes should be rolled into one book to remove all of the bloat.
The bloat extends to any faction with multiple books. Likewise no new factions should be added (or units for that matter) because every single bloody thing you add to the came increases the data points which have to be balanced against each other - something GW already fails to do as they plainly don't even care about balancing a game. Anything added on top of what is already a crippled and decaying system void of any competent design will cause it to just come crumbling down from the bloat of a whole new fully fledged faction with all of the balancing needs that entails along with soup concerns. The only focus of GW should be trimming unit, wargear, and codices down so they have something that can actually be managed. Along with getting rid of sub-faction traits considering those have done nothing but thrown a further wrench into the system. You don't help 40K by throwing even more gak into the kitchen sink which is already putrescent and smelling of mold.
Which factions have multiple books? The only other one I can think of is eldar of which harlequins should be rolled into either DE or CWE because they have like 6 models...The two are two very distinct armies. I guess chaos and chaos demons maybe.
Sm is the only "faction" I.e. a species of dudes that has some 5 books(Vanilla SM,DW,SW,DA,BA, GK)... Sorry 6 books(8 if we count custodes and SOB) for very similar or exactly the same looking power armour dudes with repetitive aesthetics. Condense those into 2-3 books and make room for something new and original.
Men of iron could be fethin awesome if done righ. Literally the most bad ass things in the 40k universe after the old ones as they brought the golden age crashing down. You could have these dudes resurface and wreak havoc slaughtering all chaos imperium and xenos alike.
I would also like to see a RT type of mercenary army or any other denomination of random non humanoid gribblies.
Wyzilla wrote: Dear god why?40K is already ridiculously bloated and needs a severe trimming of all the factions present along with an excessive amount of work to provide even a semblance of balance? Why do you want to add to the complexity, further bloating the amount of stats that need be tweaking and increasing the time to playtest across factions? 40K doesn't need any more factions and if you want to field some obscure Xenos race that doesn't even have a significant presence in the Lore, just use Tau, Tyranid, or Necron rules and proxy models.
Reduce the Imperium and Chaos to a single, albeit large, faction each and expend on new xenos and you have solved your problem of bloat and made the galaxy a lot less empty.
No, because those units still exist even in one codex, only now you have to balance even more factions. We don't need any new factions. They add nothing to the story, they add nothing to game, and can be more or less represented by extant armies. Their inclusion does nothing but throw a wrench into everything from BS'ing them into somehow being a major player at all (which has already been poorly received with the Tau over the years) and shoving a whole new faction into the game. We don't need a constant, rampant of production of new toys simply because a minority are bored with the current ones. At most what could be added is more beastmen options - anything else is galactic non-factors with a fainter footprint than the Tau. It's also hard to give a new faction any kind of faction theme that isn't already covered by the plethora of current factions.
I agree, all the different marines + custodes should be rolled into one book to remove all of the bloat.
The bloat extends to any faction with multiple books. Likewise no new factions should be added (or units for that matter) because every single bloody thing you add to the came increases the data points which have to be balanced against each other - something GW already fails to do as they plainly don't even care about balancing a game. Anything added on top of what is already a crippled and decaying system void of any competent design will cause it to just come crumbling down from the bloat of a whole new fully fledged faction with all of the balancing needs that entails along with soup concerns. The only focus of GW should be trimming unit, wargear, and codices down so they have something that can actually be managed. Along with getting rid of sub-faction traits considering those have done nothing but thrown a further wrench into the system. You don't help 40K by throwing even more gak into the kitchen sink which is already putrescent and smelling of mold.
Which factions have multiple books? The only other one I can think of is eldar of which harlequins should be rolled into either DE or CWE because they have like 6 models...The two are two very distinct armies. I guess chaos and chaos demons maybe.
Sm is the only "faction" I.e. a species of dudes that has some 5 books(Vanilla SM,DW,SW,DA,BA, GK)... Sorry 6 books(8 if we count custodes and SOB) for very similar or exactly the same looking power armour dudes.
Eldar: Craftworld, Corsairs, Harlequins (and probably more Ynnari nonsense later down the line)
Dark Eldar: Perfect
Chaos: Chaos Space Marines, Daemons, Death Guard, Gellerpox, Renegade Knights, Renegades and Heretics, Thousand Sons, Titanicus Traitoris, and some stragglers like Dark Mechanicus or Servants of the Abyss
Imperium: Sisters of Battle, Custodes, Admech, Adeptus Titanicus, Imperial Guard, Death Korps, Elysians, Imperial Knights, Inquisition, Assassins etc (Starstriders and other minor
Space Marines: Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Deathwatch, Grey Knights, Space Marines, and Space Wolves
Necrons: Perfect
Orks: Perfect
Tau: Perfect
Tyranids: Tyranids, Genestealer Cults
And wat. Custodes and Sisters have nothing in common with each other. If you think base toughness 3 and base toughness 5 with drastically different points are the same you need your eyes checked. Anyway, bloat's terrible, needs to be cut down drastically if any semblance of balance and good game design can be hoped for. GW already has a ridiculous amount of factions compared other wargames, anything further is just adding more cancerous tissue to what is already a chemotherapy patient. A new faction means probably around 10+ units with dozens of new equipments, rules, and stratagems that all have to be balanced against every single other faction there is along with soup balancing taken into account if allying is possible with them (which only makes things worse).
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Genestealer Cults aren't the same as tyranids though. That's a completely different army. That's like saying Imperial Guard are the same as Space Marines.
They can ally together which is why I group them together, as it doesn't make any sense from a lore perspective and just serves to provide Tyranids with the ability to ally in options their army structure normally doesn't support. Genestealer Cultists should be their own completely separate faction like the other xenos instead of having links to Codex Tyranids.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Genestealer Cults aren't the same as tyranids though. That's a completely different army. That's like saying Imperial Guard are the same as Space Marines.
They can ally together which is why I group them together, as it doesn't make any sense from a lore perspective and just serves to provide Tyranids with the ability to ally in options their army structure normally doesn't support. Genestealer Cultists should be their own completely separate faction like the other xenos instead of having links to Codex Tyranids.
Yeah I misunderstood.
They can ally? That's goofy. Don't the cultists just get eaten like everyone else when the nids arrive? I mean, this is what should really happen when Genestealer cultists are deployed with nids -
> Game starts
> Tyranids immediately charge the nearest cult unit
> Cult unit gets eaten, because that's what they literally are for
> Nids get victory points. Because nids.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Genestealer Cults aren't the same as tyranids though. That's a completely different army. That's like saying Imperial Guard are the same as Space Marines.
They can ally together which is why I group them together, as it doesn't make any sense from a lore perspective and just serves to provide Tyranids with the ability to ally in options their army structure normally doesn't support. Genestealer Cultists should be their own completely separate faction like the other xenos instead of having links to Codex Tyranids.
Yeah I misunderstood.
They can ally? That's goofy. Don't the cultists just get eaten like everyone else when the nids arrive? I mean, this is what should really happen when Genestealer cultists are deployed with nids -
> Game starts
> Tyranids immediately charge the nearest cult unit
> Cult unit gets eaten, because that's what they literally are for
> Nids get victory points. Because nids.
Yeah they share the keyword. And it is silly because when the fleet shows up, 99% of the time the cult is toast. I think only one Cult in the entire galaxy didn't get nommed and that's because they're mobile and act as a targeting laser for a homing missile that is the rest of the fleet. TBH 2e really had it down with the Genestealers being their own faction. It also frees up the codex as you no longer how to worry about external balance with Tyranid units which can clash with what kind of units Genestealers can get.
Wyzilla wrote: Dear god why?40K is already ridiculously bloated and needs a severe trimming of all the factions present along with an excessive amount of work to provide even a semblance of balance? Why do you want to add to the complexity, further bloating the amount of stats that need be tweaking and increasing the time to playtest across factions? 40K doesn't need any more factions and if you want to field some obscure Xenos race that doesn't even have a significant presence in the Lore, just use Tau, Tyranid, or Necron rules and proxy models.
Reduce the Imperium and Chaos to a single, albeit large, faction each and expend on new xenos and you have solved your problem of bloat and made the galaxy a lot less empty.
No, because those units still exist even in one codex, only now you have to balance even more factions. We don't need any new factions. They add nothing to the story, they add nothing to game, and can be more or less represented by extant armies. Their inclusion does nothing but throw a wrench into everything from BS'ing them into somehow being a major player at all (which has already been poorly received with the Tau over the years) and shoving a whole new faction into the game. We don't need a constant, rampant of production of new toys simply because a minority are bored with the current ones. At most what could be added is more beastmen options - anything else is galactic non-factors with a fainter footprint than the Tau. It's also hard to give a new faction any kind of faction theme that isn't already covered by the plethora of current factions.
I agree, all the different marines + custodes should be rolled into one book to remove all of the bloat.
The bloat extends to any faction with multiple books. Likewise no new factions should be added (or units for that matter) because every single bloody thing you add to the came increases the data points which have to be balanced against each other - something GW already fails to do as they plainly don't even care about balancing a game. Anything added on top of what is already a crippled and decaying system void of any competent design will cause it to just come crumbling down from the bloat of a whole new fully fledged faction with all of the balancing needs that entails along with soup concerns. The only focus of GW should be trimming unit, wargear, and codices down so they have something that can actually be managed. Along with getting rid of sub-faction traits considering those have done nothing but thrown a further wrench into the system. You don't help 40K by throwing even more gak into the kitchen sink which is already putrescent and smelling of mold.
Which factions have multiple books? The only other one I can think of is eldar of which harlequins should be rolled into either DE or CWE because they have like 6 models...The two are two very distinct armies. I guess chaos and chaos demons maybe.
Sm is the only "faction" I.e. a species of dudes that has some 5 books(Vanilla SM,DW,SW,DA,BA, GK)... Sorry 6 books(8 if we count custodes and SOB) for very similar or exactly the same looking power armour dudes.
Eldar: Craftworld, Corsairs, Harlequins (and probably more Ynnari nonsense later down the line)
Dark Eldar: Perfect
Chaos: Chaos Space Marines, Daemons, Death Guard, Gellerpox, Renegade Knights, Renegades and Heretics, Thousand Sons, Titanicus Traitoris, and some stragglers like Dark Mechanicus or Servants of the Abyss
Imperium: Sisters of Battle, Custodes, Admech, Adeptus Titanicus, Imperial Guard, Death Korps, Elysians, Imperial Knights, Inquisition, Assassins etc (Starstriders and other minor
Space Marines: Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Deathwatch, Grey Knights, Space Marines, and Space Wolves
Necrons: Perfect
Orks: Perfect
Tau: Perfect
Tyranids: Tyranids, Genestealer Cults
And wat. Custodes and Sisters have nothing in common with each other. If you think base toughness 3 and base toughness 5 with drastically different points are the same you need your eyes checked. Anyway, bloat's terrible, needs to be cut down drastically if any semblance of balance and good game design can be hoped for. GW already has a ridiculous amount of factions compared other wargames, anything further is just adding more cancerous tissue to what is already a chemotherapy patient. A new faction means probably around 10+ units with dozens of new equipments, rules, and stratagems that all have to be balanced against every single other faction there is along with soup balancing taken into account if allying is possible with them (which only makes things worse).
Oh yeah death guard and thousand sons forgot about those.
Corsairs - Don't have a book/no longer exists
Gellerpox - don't even know what that is, does it have a book?
Renegade Knights, Renegades and Heretics - don't have a "book"
Titanicus Traitoris - Again does it have a codex?
Dark Mechanicus or Servants of the Abyss - Didn't know these have their own "book"
Death Korps, Elysians, Imperial Knights, Inquisition, Assassins etc (Starstriders and other minor
- again "books"?
Ynnari - have been relegated to a WD inde
Anyway... Thank you I shall go see an optician immediately.. However in case your assessment is wrong because I was under the impression we were discussing condensing "books" by which I understood we meant WH40k 8th edition codexes can we revist this line of thought?
If you are going to thrown around some legacy models/units which don't have models or rules just because they existed at some point we are not having an honest discussion are we. You are including titans in this discussion... realllllyyyyy dude? Yeah titan rules is adding so much bloat for a normal 40k game.
T5 and T3 models are not the same obviously. My codex has units ranging from T3 to T8 so not sure what your point is should these not exists in the same codex? Sisters/custodes/Space marines are pretty much the same power armourish thing to me. Custodes are basically fancy centurions/agressors who are more or less custodes sized power armour dudes.
Please see the images attached of the current GW website catalogue listing all the "factions" and things you can buy. Note a lot of these are duplicates multiboxes PDF&Physcial codex, start collecting boxes etc.
I agree bloat is terrible. I would argue that the Imperium roster is bloated beyond belief which prevents other cool stuff from emerging.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Genestealer Cults aren't the same as tyranids though. That's a completely different army. That's like saying Imperial Guard are the same as Space Marines.
They can ally together which is why I group them together, as it doesn't make any sense from a lore perspective and just serves to provide Tyranids with the ability to ally in options their army structure normally doesn't support. Genestealer Cultists should be their own completely separate faction like the other xenos instead of having links to Codex Tyranids.
It makes perfect sense. The cult think of the nids as gods and the hive mind isn't stupid and even the most recent fluff doesn't have them turning on the cult until after the planet invasion is well under way. During the initial assault it makes complete sense for them to fight together.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Genestealer Cults aren't the same as tyranids though. That's a completely different army. That's like saying Imperial Guard are the same as Space Marines.
They can ally together which is why I group them together, as it doesn't make any sense from a lore perspective and just serves to provide Tyranids with the ability to ally in options their army structure normally doesn't support. Genestealer Cultists should be their own completely separate faction like the other xenos instead of having links to Codex Tyranids.
It makes perfect sense. The cult think of the nids as gods and the hive mind isn't stupid and even the most recent fluff doesn't have them turning on the cult until after the planet invasion is well under way. During the initial assault it makes complete sense for them to fight together.
Time of the ascention is upon us. Glory to the many armed emperor ! *jumps into a biomass digestion pit*
I like the GSC fluff. I like to picture them all working for the nids as part of a crazy cult then rejoice as they are eaten. Because what cult doesn't end in ritual suicide and some sort of blissfull religious release?
Melissia wrote:The Tau Empire was listed as just one of many xenos empires struggling to survive and expand upon the fringes of the Imperium. If we're gonna add new factions, small xenos empires like the Tau are a great place to start.
BrianDavion wrote:
Melissia wrote: The Tau Empire was listed as just one of many xenos empires struggling to survive and expand upon the fringes of the Imperium. If we're gonna add new factions, small xenos empires like the Tau are a great place to start.
... ya know, that's a neat idea for a chapter approved article, "xenos creation rules"
Agreed. A bunch of new smaller xenos empires would definitely be nice. Especially if they have vassal/colonial/client races among their ranks like the Tau do.
Carnage43 wrote:I'd be interested in a high tech, non-imperium, non-chaos human army. Something that's been isolated for millennia and popped back onto the galactic stage.
Could play them as "Hey weren't not mutants, or chaos! Join us fellow humans and throw off the yoke of your imperial oppressors!"
I think there was a story from the heresy era about the Interex? Not sure how you would make it work, as I feel it would basically be Tau with different looking toys.....in fact I might have an idea for my next army....hmmmmmm.
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Carnage43 wrote: I'd be interested in a high tech, non-imperium, non-chaos human army. Something that's been isolated for millennia and popped back onto the galactic stage.
Could play them as "Hey weren't not mutants, or chaos! Join us fellow humans and throw off the yoke of your imperial oppressors!"
I think there was a story from the heresy era about the Interex? Not sure how you would make it work, as I feel it would basically be Tau with different looking toys.....in fact I might have an idea for my next army....hmmmmmm.
Yeah, the Interex used to exist. They were wiped out by the Imperium. Apparently the Interex never read De Re Militari (where "If you want peace, prepare for war" came from) and didn't invest in military tech, so when the Imperium came by they got outgunned despite their overall more advanced technology.
It would be nice to see an Interex spiritual successor though. Maybe a fringe Imperial world that got its hand on some xeno tech, started to reverse engineer it and somehow began to take neighboring fringe worlds. The idea being that they are so far away that by the time the Imperium found out that they exist, they already captured a few worlds and set up a strong series of defenses.
I too would like to see a spiritual successor to the Interex as well. Either that or a reformed Interex empire of some kind. I kind of imagine it being something like a United Federation of Planets/Starfleet of sorts that grew cynical, disillusioned, and more diplomatically cutthroat due to the harsh realities of living in the 41st millennium.
CthuluIsSpy wrote:You know, with the subfaction traits system they could probably just merge all of the Chapters in the same book and let the subfaction traits be the same as chapter traits.
The unique units available to each chapter could just use the keyword system.
BaconCatBug wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote: You know, with the subfaction traits system they could probably just merge all of the Chapters in the same book and let the subfaction traits be the same as chapter traits.
The unique units available to each chapter could just use the keyword system.
I don't want to have to spend money on BA, DA and Codex rules when I only play Space Wolves.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: You know, with the subfaction traits system they could probably just merge all of the Chapters in the same book and let the subfaction traits be the same as chapter traits.
The unique units available to each chapter could just use the keyword system.
I don't want to have to spend money on BA, DA and Codex rules when I only play Space Wolves.
So? I don't use Sautekh units, but Imotekh is still in my codex.
I have no intention of using Goffs, but Thraka, the goff relic and the goff trait is still there. Everyone else has to pay for rules they don't use, I don't see why marines should be any different.
I agree with the notion of having all the Space Marine Chapters be combined into one Codex. I especially don't understand why certain chapters like the Dark Angels and the Blood Angels get their own codices while other chapters don't.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Genestealer Cults aren't the same as tyranids though. That's a completely different army. That's like saying Imperial Guard are the same as Space Marines.
They can ally together which is why I group them together, as it doesn't make any sense from a lore perspective and just serves to provide Tyranids with the ability to ally in options their army structure normally doesn't support. Genestealer Cultists should be their own completely separate faction like the other xenos instead of having links to Codex Tyranids.
It makes perfect sense. The cult think of the nids as gods and the hive mind isn't stupid and even the most recent fluff doesn't have them turning on the cult until after the planet invasion is well under way. During the initial assault it makes complete sense for them to fight together.
The "invasion well under way" is how the Tyranids conduct all warfare. Per codex once the fleet actually shows up the Cultists think they are 'saved' until they realize it was all a lie as their 'children' starts to eat them alive and the Nids touch down and begin killing anything that has a pulse.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Genestealer Cults aren't the same as tyranids though. That's a completely different army. That's like saying Imperial Guard are the same as Space Marines.
They can ally together which is why I group them together, as it doesn't make any sense from a lore perspective and just serves to provide Tyranids with the ability to ally in options their army structure normally doesn't support. Genestealer Cultists should be their own completely separate faction like the other xenos instead of having links to Codex Tyranids.
It makes perfect sense. The cult think of the nids as gods and the hive mind isn't stupid and even the most recent fluff doesn't have them turning on the cult until after the planet invasion is well under way. During the initial assault it makes complete sense for them to fight together.
Time of the ascention is upon us. Glory to the many armed emperor ! *jumps into a biomass digestion pit*
I like the GSC fluff. I like to picture them all working for the nids as part of a crazy cult then rejoice as they are eaten. Because what cult doesn't end in ritual suicide and some sort of blissfull religious release?
They don't do that anymore. According to the new fluff once the fleet arrives the Genestealer Cultists come to the shocking realization that the man-armed god isn't their savior and run screaming in terror from the Purestrains which chase after and kill them.
K9ofChaos wrote: I agree with the notion of having all the Space Marine Chapters be combined into one Codex. I especially don't understand why certain chapters like the Dark Angels and the Blood Angels get their own codices while other chapters don't.
Because they differ from the standard "codex" organisation. Granted, Iron Hands and Salamanders are also meant to but GW don't care about them.
They don't do that anymore. According to the new fluff once the fleet arrives the Genestealer Cultists come to the shocking realization that the man-armed god isn't their savior and run screaming in terror from the Purestrains which chase after and kill them.
haha silly cult people
Aren't they getting captured rather then eaten and being sent to build the big space weapon/artefact thing ?
They don't do that anymore. According to the new fluff once the fleet arrives the Genestealer Cultists come to the shocking realization that the man-armed god isn't their savior and run screaming in terror from the Purestrains which chase after and kill them.
haha silly cult people
Aren't they getting captured rather then eaten and being sent to build the big space weapon/artefact thing ?
Everything is digested and destroyed by the Tyranids upon consuming a world, including the biomorphs they deployed onto it. The only Tyranid strains with any kind of longevity are purestrain genestealers (who iirc are sometimes deployed elsewhere as the vanguard to start another cult) and Hive Tyrants/Queens. Otherwise it's all just cells in the greater macro-organism to be recycled so the biomass can be applied to other needs.
Good as it should be. My first army the Nids.
Total trash fire when I played. Lost every game but cool models . Granted probably lost because lacking money to buy the good models and being to young to understand the game properly.
Squats, Exodites, Feral Orks, and Arbites would all be great.
In the case of Exodites and Feral orks they could probably recycle some of the plastic models from the AoS/ Fantasy range with some upgrade sprues. Add in units from the parent faction and a couple unique characters and the job is done.
cuda1179 wrote: Squats, Exodites, Feral Orks, and Arbites would all be great.
In the case of Exodites and Feral orks they could probably recycle some of the plastic models from the AoS/ Fantasy range with some upgrade sprues. Add in units from the parent faction and a couple unique characters and the job is done.
How would feral orks work exactly in 40k? If they are feral they wouldint have acess to spaceships no ?
theres already an ork Kulture that all about "fightin proppa with choppas"
CthuluIsSpy wrote: You know, with the subfaction traits system they could probably just merge all of the Chapters in the same book and let the subfaction traits be the same as chapter traits.
The unique units available to each chapter could just use the keyword system.
I don't want to have to spend money on BA, DA and Codex rules when I only play Space Wolves.
So? I don't use Sautekh units, but Imotekh is still in my codex.
I have no intention of using Goffs, but Thraka, the goff relic and the goff trait is still there. Everyone else has to pay for rules they don't use, I don't see why marines should be any different.
It's a bit of a dishonest argument to compare the amount of distinctive unit entries available to either of those sub-factions (I don't own either book, but from what you've said above we're talking one character, a trait, and a relic or two) to the amount of stuff accrued by the BA/DA/SW over time.
When it comes to the original 18 Legions, I'd much rather see them each get their own book, with proper development, than I would have them merged into "Good" SM and "Spikey" SM books.
cuda1179 wrote: Squats, Exodites, Feral Orks, and Arbites would all be great.
In the case of Exodites and Feral orks they could probably recycle some of the plastic models from the AoS/ Fantasy range with some upgrade sprues. Add in units from the parent faction and a couple unique characters and the job is done.
There was a feral Ork army list back in 3rd. It included boar- and madboyz.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: You know, with the subfaction traits system they could probably just merge all of the Chapters in the same book and let the subfaction traits be the same as chapter traits.
Let's not devolve this thread in to that argument please? Every time it comes up it's like twenty pages or more.
cuda1179 wrote: Squats, Exodites, Feral Orks, and Arbites would all be great.
In the case of Exodites and Feral orks they could probably recycle some of the plastic models from the AoS/ Fantasy range with some upgrade sprues. Add in units from the parent faction and a couple unique characters and the job is done.
There was a feral Ork army list back in 3rd. It included boar- and madboyz.
Better BS in view of their increased need to hunt game, so BS4. Wonder why they were popular?
Wild Boyz still do-able, just run Slugga Boyz, but don't shoot Pistols. For Boar Boyz run Nobz - boars ain't quick. Mad Boyz had random effects, so play them as a different Kulture each game.
Only problem is Feral Orks lack a 'Clan', with their 'Kultur' yet to emerge.
K9ofChaos wrote: I agree with the notion of having all the Space Marine Chapters be combined into one Codex. I especially don't understand why certain chapters like the Dark Angels and the Blood Angels get their own codices while other chapters don't.
Because they differ from the standard "codex" organisation. Granted, Iron Hands and Salamanders are also meant to but GW don't care about them.
Oh, okay. So they're so structurally different from the average Space Marine chapter that they require their own codex to function properly in the game? Makes sense. Kind of like how more elite units within a given IRL armed force (Such as Green Berets or Navy SEALs, for example) could be structurally different from other units depending on how good they areor what their purpose is, right?
Argive wrote:Good as it should be. My first army the Nids.
Total trash fire when I played. Lost every game but cool models . Granted probably lost because lacking money to buy the good models and being to young to understand the game properly.
Don't we all. Hopefully once I start playing the game I'll have a better time grasping it better then my teenage self though.
cuda1179 wrote:Squats, Exodites, Feral Orks, and Arbites would all be great.
In the case of Exodites and Feral orks they could probably recycle some of the plastic models from the AoS/ Fantasy range with some upgrade sprues. Add in units from the parent faction and a couple unique characters and the job is done.
First time I've heard about the concept of Feral Orks.
You can easily make a Feral Orks army as-is. Just take a bunch of Choppas and restrict ranged weapons heavily. It's going to suck of course (unless the weirdboy gets really lucky) and get tabled.... but that's the point. Feral Orks are a threat to the local PDF on a good day and aren't supposed to be this galactic threat bouncing around the galaxy. From a lore perspective it wouldn't even make sense.
I always had simple reasoning for any feral ork encounter. The other army was on the planet for some other reason and all of a sudden they are just randomly attacked by these crazy primitive orks.
This is the way any ork group starts. They start growing on a planet(either from a failed invasion or just spores flying through space) and they end up being able to get in space themselves by killing the people on the planet or taking out alien visitors.
I LOVE the concept of feral orks and fully plan on converting up a whole army from AoS orks and large beasts.
I don't want to invalidate anyone's opinions, but every time I see people advocating for fewer factions, fewer models, fewer units- I feel like many of you would be happier playing chess.
I mean, if you want a perfectly balanced, tactically rich lean ruled game, there it is.
I have always felt that 40k is not really a game; it is an immersive hobby based on a game that allows us to tell and create stories. I die inside every time they hit the reset button and burn everything down with a new edition.
They've release the same stuff eight times!
If we were still on second ed rules, EVERY faction would be able to soup like the imperium can soup. Than none of the Xeno players would be getting steamrolled Every army would have access to all battlefield roles within their own faction PLUS soup capacity.
People do have a point when they say fix issues with existing factions first. I agree. And I think they'll use kill team and blackstone releases to do that; some particularly egregious codices could get a make-over without re-releasing the whole freakin game. But once that's done, bring on the new.
See, the thing about more options is if you don't like them, you just don't play them. The thing about fewer options is you take choices away from people who want them, and all for nothing because you don't have to actually do that in order to play the game the way you want to.
I've been waiting 30 years for GW to figure out how to move this hobby forward, and I think it may have finally happened. With 40k + Kill Team + Blackstone + Epic, there have never been more ways to grow the universe and tell more stories.
In much the same way that Kill Team has an Arena expansion for ultracompetitive tournament types, maybe they could come up with one of those for 40k, allowing them to please both demographics.As I understand, most tournaments already impose their own limitations in the name of balance, but if you need them to take that further, go ahead.
Just don't insist they do it at the expense of content junkies. There are ways everyone can get what they want, and I think the GW is finally starting to figure that out.
The amount of people talking Cult lore in this thread and getting it wrong is astounding. Pick up the codex and give it a good read, it has variations of the past fates of cults throughout, even new ways for the Cult to find use to the Hive Mind via the Pilgrimage to Ziaphoria.
Anyway, I'd like to see new Xenos factions, lesser Empires that see the chaos and weakness of the Imperiums holdings, and strikes.
I don't particularly care for consolidation of Codexes, but I would like there to be less focus on giving the imperium an answer/tool for everything. They have nearly as many factions as there are opposing factions to them. It's pretty nuts.
