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Skaven so much so that it actually causes my physical pain every time I think at the missed business opportunity.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Argive wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

epronovost wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Dear god why? 40K is already ridiculously bloated and needs a severe trimming of all the factions present along with an excessive amount of work to provide even a semblance of balance? Why do you want to add to the complexity, further bloating the amount of stats that need be tweaking and increasing the time to playtest across factions? 40K doesn't need any more factions and if you want to field some obscure Xenos race that doesn't even have a significant presence in the Lore, just use Tau, Tyranid, or Necron rules and proxy models.

Reduce the Imperium and Chaos to a single, albeit large, faction each and expend on new xenos and you have solved your problem of bloat and made the galaxy a lot less empty.

No, because those units still exist even in one codex, only now you have to balance even more factions. We don't need any new factions. They add nothing to the story, they add nothing to game, and can be more or less represented by extant armies. Their inclusion does nothing but throw a wrench into everything from BS'ing them into somehow being a major player at all (which has already been poorly received with the Tau over the years) and shoving a whole new faction into the game. We don't need a constant, rampant of production of new toys simply because a minority are bored with the current ones. At most what could be added is more beastmen options - anything else is galactic non-factors with a fainter footprint than the Tau. It's also hard to give a new faction any kind of faction theme that isn't already covered by the plethora of current factions.

I agree, all the different marines + custodes should be rolled into one book to remove all of the bloat.

The bloat extends to any faction with multiple books. Likewise no new factions should be added (or units for that matter) because every single bloody thing you add to the came increases the data points which have to be balanced against each other - something GW already fails to do as they plainly don't even care about balancing a game. Anything added on top of what is already a crippled and decaying system void of any competent design will cause it to just come crumbling down from the bloat of a whole new fully fledged faction with all of the balancing needs that entails along with soup concerns. The only focus of GW should be trimming unit, wargear, and codices down so they have something that can actually be managed. Along with getting rid of sub-faction traits considering those have done nothing but thrown a further wrench into the system. You don't help 40K by throwing even more gak into the kitchen sink which is already putrescent and smelling of mold.

Which factions have multiple books? The only other one I can think of is eldar of which harlequins should be rolled into either DE or CWE because they have like 6 models...The two are two very distinct armies. I guess chaos and chaos demons maybe.

Sm is the only "faction" I.e. a species of dudes that has some 5 books(Vanilla SM,DW,SW,DA,BA, GK)... Sorry 6 books(8 if we count custodes and SOB) for very similar or exactly the same looking power armour dudes with repetitive aesthetics. Condense those into 2-3 books and make room for something new and original.

Men of iron could be fethin awesome if done righ. Literally the most bad ass things in the 40k universe after the old ones as they brought the golden age crashing down. You could have these dudes resurface and wreak havoc slaughtering all chaos imperium and xenos alike.

I would also like to see a RT type of mercenary army or any other denomination of random non humanoid gribblies.

 Argive wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Argive wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

epronovost wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Dear god why? 40K is already ridiculously bloated and needs a severe trimming of all the factions present along with an excessive amount of work to provide even a semblance of balance? Why do you want to add to the complexity, further bloating the amount of stats that need be tweaking and increasing the time to playtest across factions? 40K doesn't need any more factions and if you want to field some obscure Xenos race that doesn't even have a significant presence in the Lore, just use Tau, Tyranid, or Necron rules and proxy models.

Reduce the Imperium and Chaos to a single, albeit large, faction each and expend on new xenos and you have solved your problem of bloat and made the galaxy a lot less empty.

No, because those units still exist even in one codex, only now you have to balance even more factions. We don't need any new factions. They add nothing to the story, they add nothing to game, and can be more or less represented by extant armies. Their inclusion does nothing but throw a wrench into everything from BS'ing them into somehow being a major player at all (which has already been poorly received with the Tau over the years) and shoving a whole new faction into the game. We don't need a constant, rampant of production of new toys simply because a minority are bored with the current ones. At most what could be added is more beastmen options - anything else is galactic non-factors with a fainter footprint than the Tau. It's also hard to give a new faction any kind of faction theme that isn't already covered by the plethora of current factions.

I agree, all the different marines + custodes should be rolled into one book to remove all of the bloat.

The bloat extends to any faction with multiple books. Likewise no new factions should be added (or units for that matter) because every single bloody thing you add to the came increases the data points which have to be balanced against each other - something GW already fails to do as they plainly don't even care about balancing a game. Anything added on top of what is already a crippled and decaying system void of any competent design will cause it to just come crumbling down from the bloat of a whole new fully fledged faction with all of the balancing needs that entails along with soup concerns. The only focus of GW should be trimming unit, wargear, and codices down so they have something that can actually be managed. Along with getting rid of sub-faction traits considering those have done nothing but thrown a further wrench into the system. You don't help 40K by throwing even more gak into the kitchen sink which is already putrescent and smelling of mold.

Which factions have multiple books? The only other one I can think of is eldar of which harlequins should be rolled into either DE or CWE because they have like 6 models...The two are two very distinct armies. I guess chaos and chaos demons maybe.

Sm is the only "faction" I.e. a species of dudes that has some 5 books(Vanilla SM,DW,SW,DA,BA, GK)... Sorry 6 books(8 if we count custodes and SOB) for very similar or exactly the same looking power armour dudes.

Eldar: Craftworld, Corsairs, Harlequins (and probably more Ynnari nonsense later down the line)

Dark Eldar: Perfect

Chaos: Chaos Space Marines, Daemons, Death Guard, Gellerpox, Renegade Knights, Renegades and Heretics, Thousand Sons, Titanicus Traitoris, and some stragglers like Dark Mechanicus or Servants of the Abyss

Imperium: Sisters of Battle, Custodes, Admech, Adeptus Titanicus, Imperial Guard, Death Korps, Elysians, Imperial Knights, Inquisition, Assassins etc (Starstriders and other minor

Space Marines: Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Deathwatch, Grey Knights, Space Marines, and Space Wolves

Necrons: Perfect

Orks: Perfect

Tau: Perfect

Tyranids: Tyranids, Genestealer Cults

And wat. Custodes and Sisters have nothing in common with each other. If you think base toughness 3 and base toughness 5 with drastically different points are the same you need your eyes checked. Anyway, bloat's terrible, needs to be cut down drastically if any semblance of balance and good game design can be hoped for. GW already has a ridiculous amount of factions compared other wargames, anything further is just adding more cancerous tissue to what is already a chemotherapy patient. A new faction means probably around 10+ units with dozens of new equipments, rules, and stratagems that all have to be balanced against every single other faction there is along with soup balancing taken into account if allying is possible with them (which only makes things worse).

Nevermind, misunderstood.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Genestealer Cults aren't the same as tyranids though. That's a completely different army. That's like saying Imperial Guard are the same as Space Marines.

They can ally together which is why I group them together, as it doesn't make any sense from a lore perspective and just serves to provide Tyranids with the ability to ally in options their army structure normally doesn't support. Genestealer Cultists should be their own completely separate faction like the other xenos instead of having links to Codex Tyranids.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Genestealer Cults aren't the same as tyranids though. That's a completely different army. That's like saying Imperial Guard are the same as Space Marines.

They can ally together which is why I group them together, as it doesn't make any sense from a lore perspective and just serves to provide Tyranids with the ability to ally in options their army structure normally doesn't support. Genestealer Cultists should be their own completely separate faction like the other xenos instead of having links to Codex Tyranids.

Yeah I misunderstood.
They can ally? That's goofy. Don't the cultists just get eaten like everyone else when the nids arrive? I mean, this is what should really happen when Genestealer cultists are deployed with nids -

> Game starts
> Tyranids immediately charge the nearest cult unit
> Cult unit gets eaten, because that's what they literally are for
> Nids get victory points. Because nids.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Genestealer Cults aren't the same as tyranids though. That's a completely different army. That's like saying Imperial Guard are the same as Space Marines.

They can ally together which is why I group them together, as it doesn't make any sense from a lore perspective and just serves to provide Tyranids with the ability to ally in options their army structure normally doesn't support. Genestealer Cultists should be their own completely separate faction like the other xenos instead of having links to Codex Tyranids.

Yeah I misunderstood.
They can ally? That's goofy. Don't the cultists just get eaten like everyone else when the nids arrive? I mean, this is what should really happen when Genestealer cultists are deployed with nids -

> Game starts
> Tyranids immediately charge the nearest cult unit
> Cult unit gets eaten, because that's what they literally are for
> Nids get victory points. Because nids.

Yeah they share the keyword. And it is silly because when the fleet shows up, 99% of the time the cult is toast. I think only one Cult in the entire galaxy didn't get nommed and that's because they're mobile and act as a targeting laser for a homing missile that is the rest of the fleet. TBH 2e really had it down with the Genestealers being their own faction. It also frees up the codex as you no longer how to worry about external balance with Tyranid units which can clash with what kind of units Genestealers can get.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Argive wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Argive wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

epronovost wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Dear god why? 40K is already ridiculously bloated and needs a severe trimming of all the factions present along with an excessive amount of work to provide even a semblance of balance? Why do you want to add to the complexity, further bloating the amount of stats that need be tweaking and increasing the time to playtest across factions? 40K doesn't need any more factions and if you want to field some obscure Xenos race that doesn't even have a significant presence in the Lore, just use Tau, Tyranid, or Necron rules and proxy models.

Reduce the Imperium and Chaos to a single, albeit large, faction each and expend on new xenos and you have solved your problem of bloat and made the galaxy a lot less empty.

No, because those units still exist even in one codex, only now you have to balance even more factions. We don't need any new factions. They add nothing to the story, they add nothing to game, and can be more or less represented by extant armies. Their inclusion does nothing but throw a wrench into everything from BS'ing them into somehow being a major player at all (which has already been poorly received with the Tau over the years) and shoving a whole new faction into the game. We don't need a constant, rampant of production of new toys simply because a minority are bored with the current ones. At most what could be added is more beastmen options - anything else is galactic non-factors with a fainter footprint than the Tau. It's also hard to give a new faction any kind of faction theme that isn't already covered by the plethora of current factions.

I agree, all the different marines + custodes should be rolled into one book to remove all of the bloat.

The bloat extends to any faction with multiple books. Likewise no new factions should be added (or units for that matter) because every single bloody thing you add to the came increases the data points which have to be balanced against each other - something GW already fails to do as they plainly don't even care about balancing a game. Anything added on top of what is already a crippled and decaying system void of any competent design will cause it to just come crumbling down from the bloat of a whole new fully fledged faction with all of the balancing needs that entails along with soup concerns. The only focus of GW should be trimming unit, wargear, and codices down so they have something that can actually be managed. Along with getting rid of sub-faction traits considering those have done nothing but thrown a further wrench into the system. You don't help 40K by throwing even more gak into the kitchen sink which is already putrescent and smelling of mold.

Which factions have multiple books? The only other one I can think of is eldar of which harlequins should be rolled into either DE or CWE because they have like 6 models...The two are two very distinct armies. I guess chaos and chaos demons maybe.

Sm is the only "faction" I.e. a species of dudes that has some 5 books(Vanilla SM,DW,SW,DA,BA, GK)... Sorry 6 books(8 if we count custodes and SOB) for very similar or exactly the same looking power armour dudes.

Eldar: Craftworld, Corsairs, Harlequins (and probably more Ynnari nonsense later down the line)

Dark Eldar: Perfect

Chaos: Chaos Space Marines, Daemons, Death Guard, Gellerpox, Renegade Knights, Renegades and Heretics, Thousand Sons, Titanicus Traitoris, and some stragglers like Dark Mechanicus or Servants of the Abyss

Imperium: Sisters of Battle, Custodes, Admech, Adeptus Titanicus, Imperial Guard, Death Korps, Elysians, Imperial Knights, Inquisition, Assassins etc (Starstriders and other minor

Space Marines: Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Deathwatch, Grey Knights, Space Marines, and Space Wolves

Necrons: Perfect

Orks: Perfect

Tau: Perfect

Tyranids: Tyranids, Genestealer Cults

And wat. Custodes and Sisters have nothing in common with each other. If you think base toughness 3 and base toughness 5 with drastically different points are the same you need your eyes checked. Anyway, bloat's terrible, needs to be cut down drastically if any semblance of balance and good game design can be hoped for. GW already has a ridiculous amount of factions compared other wargames, anything further is just adding more cancerous tissue to what is already a chemotherapy patient. A new faction means probably around 10+ units with dozens of new equipments, rules, and stratagems that all have to be balanced against every single other faction there is along with soup balancing taken into account if allying is possible with them (which only makes things worse).

Oh yeah death guard and thousand sons forgot about those.

Corsairs - Don't have a book/no longer exists
Gellerpox - don't even know what that is, does it have a book?
Renegade Knights, Renegades and Heretics - don't have a "book"
Titanicus Traitoris - Again does it have a codex?
Dark Mechanicus or Servants of the Abyss - Didn't know these have their own "book"
Death Korps, Elysians, Imperial Knights, Inquisition, Assassins etc (Starstriders and other minor
- again "books"?
Ynnari - have been relegated to a WD inde

Anyway... Thank you I shall go see an optician immediately.. However in case your assessment is wrong because I was under the impression we were discussing condensing "books" by which I understood we meant WH 40k 8th edition codexes can we revist this line of thought?

If you are going to thrown around some legacy models/units which don't have models or rules just because they existed at some point we are not having an honest discussion are we. You are including titans in this discussion... realllllyyyyy dude? Yeah titan rules is adding so much bloat for a normal 40k game.

T5 and T3 models are not the same obviously. My codex has units ranging from T3 to T8 so not sure what your point is should these not exists in the same codex? Sisters/custodes/Space marines are pretty much the same power armourish thing to me. Custodes are basically fancy centurions/agressors who are more or less custodes sized power armour dudes.
Please see the images attached of the current GW website catalogue listing all the "factions" and things you can buy. Note a lot of these are duplicates multiboxes PDF&Physcial codex, start collecting boxes etc.

I agree bloat is terrible. I would argue that the Imperium roster is bloated beyond belief which prevents other cool stuff from emerging.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Genestealer Cults aren't the same as tyranids though. That's a completely different army. That's like saying Imperial Guard are the same as Space Marines.

They can ally together which is why I group them together, as it doesn't make any sense from a lore perspective and just serves to provide Tyranids with the ability to ally in options their army structure normally doesn't support. Genestealer Cultists should be their own completely separate faction like the other xenos instead of having links to Codex Tyranids.

It makes perfect sense. The cult think of the nids as gods and the hive mind isn't stupid and even the most recent fluff doesn't have them turning on the cult until after the planet invasion is well under way. During the initial assault it makes complete sense for them to fight together.

HoundsofDemos wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Genestealer Cults aren't the same as tyranids though. That's a completely different army. That's like saying Imperial Guard are the same as Space Marines.

They can ally together which is why I group them together, as it doesn't make any sense from a lore perspective and just serves to provide Tyranids with the ability to ally in options their army structure normally doesn't support. Genestealer Cultists should be their own completely separate faction like the other xenos instead of having links to Codex Tyranids.

It makes perfect sense. The cult think of the nids as gods and the hive mind isn't stupid and even the most recent fluff doesn't have them turning on the cult until after the planet invasion is well under way. During the initial assault it makes complete sense for them to fight together.

Time of the ascention is upon us. Glory to the many armed emperor ! *jumps into a biomass digestion pit*



I like the GSC fluff. I like to picture them all working for the nids as part of a crazy cult then rejoice as they are eaten. Because what cult doesn't end in ritual suicide and some sort of blissfull religious release?

Melissia wrote:The Tau Empire was listed as just one of many xenos empires struggling to survive and expand upon the fringes of the Imperium. If we're gonna add new factions, small xenos empires like the Tau are a great place to start.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
The Tau Empire was listed as just one of many xenos empires struggling to survive and expand upon the fringes of the Imperium. If we're gonna add new factions, small xenos empires like the Tau are a great place to start.

... ya know, that's a neat idea for a chapter approved article, "xenos creation rules"

Agreed. A bunch of new smaller xenos empires would definitely be nice. Especially if they have vassal/colonial/client races among their ranks like the Tau do.

Carnage43 wrote:I'd be interested in a high tech, non-imperium, non-chaos human army. Something that's been isolated for millennia and popped back onto the galactic stage.

Could play them as "Hey weren't not mutants, or chaos! Join us fellow humans and throw off the yoke of your imperial oppressors!"

I think there was a story from the heresy era about the Interex? Not sure how you would make it work, as I feel it would basically be Tau with different looking toys.....in fact I might have an idea for my next army....hmmmmmm.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Carnage43 wrote:
I'd be interested in a high tech, non-imperium, non-chaos human army. Something that's been isolated for millennia and popped back onto the galactic stage.

Could play them as "Hey weren't not mutants, or chaos! Join us fellow humans and throw off the yoke of your imperial oppressors!"

I think there was a story from the heresy era about the Interex? Not sure how you would make it work, as I feel it would basically be Tau with different looking toys.....in fact I might have an idea for my next army....hmmmmmm.

Yeah, the Interex used to exist. They were wiped out by the Imperium. Apparently the Interex never read De Re Militari (where "If you want peace, prepare for war" came from) and didn't invest in military tech, so when the Imperium came by they got outgunned despite their overall more advanced technology.

It would be nice to see an Interex spiritual successor though. Maybe a fringe Imperial world that got its hand on some xeno tech, started to reverse engineer it and somehow began to take neighboring fringe worlds. The idea being that they are so far away that by the time the Imperium found out that they exist, they already captured a few worlds and set up a strong series of defenses.

I too would like to see a spiritual successor to the Interex as well. Either that or a reformed Interex empire of some kind. I kind of imagine it being something like a United Federation of Planets/Starfleet of sorts that grew cynical, disillusioned, and more diplomatically cutthroat due to the harsh realities of living in the 41st millennium.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:You know, with the subfaction traits system they could probably just merge all of the Chapters in the same book and let the subfaction traits be the same as chapter traits.

The unique units available to each chapter could just use the keyword system.

BaconCatBug wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
You know, with the subfaction traits system they could probably just merge all of the Chapters in the same book and let the subfaction traits be the same as chapter traits.

The unique units available to each chapter could just use the keyword system.

I don't want to have to spend money on BA, DA and Codex rules when I only play Space Wolves.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
You know, with the subfaction traits system they could probably just merge all of the Chapters in the same book and let the subfaction traits be the same as chapter traits.

The unique units available to each chapter could just use the keyword system.

I don't want to have to spend money on BA, DA and Codex rules when I only play Space Wolves.

So? I don't use Sautekh units, but Imotekh is still in my codex.
I have no intention of using Goffs, but Thraka, the goff relic and the goff trait is still there. Everyone else has to pay for rules they don't use, I don't see why marines should be any different.

I agree with the notion of having all the Space Marine Chapters be combined into one Codex. I especially don't understand why certain chapters like the Dark Angels and the Blood Angels get their own codices while other chapters don't.

HoundsofDemos wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Genestealer Cults aren't the same as tyranids though. That's a completely different army. That's like saying Imperial Guard are the same as Space Marines.

They can ally together which is why I group them together, as it doesn't make any sense from a lore perspective and just serves to provide Tyranids with the ability to ally in options their army structure normally doesn't support. Genestealer Cultists should be their own completely separate faction like the other xenos instead of having links to Codex Tyranids.

It makes perfect sense. The cult think of the nids as gods and the hive mind isn't stupid and even the most recent fluff doesn't have them turning on the cult until after the planet invasion is well under way. During the initial assault it makes complete sense for them to fight together.

The "invasion well under way" is how the Tyranids conduct all warfare. Per codex once the fleet actually shows up the Cultists think they are 'saved' until they realize it was all a lie as their 'children' starts to eat them alive and the Nids touch down and begin killing anything that has a pulse.

 Argive wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Genestealer Cults aren't the same as tyranids though. That's a completely different army. That's like saying Imperial Guard are the same as Space Marines.

They can ally together which is why I group them together, as it doesn't make any sense from a lore perspective and just serves to provide Tyranids with the ability to ally in options their army structure normally doesn't support. Genestealer Cultists should be their own completely separate faction like the other xenos instead of having links to Codex Tyranids.

It makes perfect sense. The cult think of the nids as gods and the hive mind isn't stupid and even the most recent fluff doesn't have them turning on the cult until after the planet invasion is well under way. During the initial assault it makes complete sense for them to fight together.

Time of the ascention is upon us. Glory to the many armed emperor ! *jumps into a biomass digestion pit*



I like the GSC fluff. I like to picture them all working for the nids as part of a crazy cult then rejoice as they are eaten. Because what cult doesn't end in ritual suicide and some sort of blissfull religious release?

They don't do that anymore. According to the new fluff once the fleet arrives the Genestealer Cultists come to the shocking realization that the man-armed god isn't their savior and run screaming in terror from the Purestrains which chase after and kill them.

 K9ofChaos wrote:
I agree with the notion of having all the Space Marine Chapters be combined into one Codex. I especially don't understand why certain chapters like the Dark Angels and the Blood Angels get their own codices while other chapters don't.

Because they differ from the standard "codex" organisation. Granted, Iron Hands and Salamanders are also meant to but GW don't care about them.

An Imperial Guard Cavalry regiment with a minicodex that is harlequin sized With a about as many kits as harlequins.

 Wyzilla wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

They don't do that anymore. According to the new fluff once the fleet arrives the Genestealer Cultists come to the shocking realization that the man-armed god isn't their savior and run screaming in terror from the Purestrains which chase after and kill them.

haha silly cult people

Aren't they getting captured rather then eaten and being sent to build the big space weapon/artefact thing ?

 Argive wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

They don't do that anymore. According to the new fluff once the fleet arrives the Genestealer Cultists come to the shocking realization that the man-armed god isn't their savior and run screaming in terror from the Purestrains which chase after and kill them.

haha silly cult people

Aren't they getting captured rather then eaten and being sent to build the big space weapon/artefact thing ?

Everything is digested and destroyed by the Tyranids upon consuming a world, including the biomorphs they deployed onto it. The only Tyranid strains with any kind of longevity are purestrain genestealers (who iirc are sometimes deployed elsewhere as the vanguard to start another cult) and Hive Tyrants/Queens. Otherwise it's all just cells in the greater macro-organism to be recycled so the biomass can be applied to other needs.

Good as it should be. My first army the Nids.
Total trash fire when I played. Lost every game but cool models . Granted probably lost because lacking money to buy the good models and being to young to understand the game properly.

Squats, Exodites, Feral Orks, and Arbites would all be great.

In the case of Exodites and Feral orks they could probably recycle some of the plastic models from the AoS/ Fantasy range with some upgrade sprues. Add in units from the parent faction and a couple unique characters and the job is done.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Squats, Exodites, Feral Orks, and Arbites would all be great.

In the case of Exodites and Feral orks they could probably recycle some of the plastic models from the AoS/ Fantasy range with some upgrade sprues. Add in units from the parent faction and a couple unique characters and the job is done.

How would feral orks work exactly in 40k? If they are feral they wouldint have acess to spaceships no ?
theres already an ork Kulture that all about "fightin proppa with choppas"

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
You know, with the subfaction traits system they could probably just merge all of the Chapters in the same book and let the subfaction traits be the same as chapter traits.

The unique units available to each chapter could just use the keyword system.

I don't want to have to spend money on BA, DA and Codex rules when I only play Space Wolves.

So? I don't use Sautekh units, but Imotekh is still in my codex.
I have no intention of using Goffs, but Thraka, the goff relic and the goff trait is still there. Everyone else has to pay for rules they don't use, I don't see why marines should be any different.

It's a bit of a dishonest argument to compare the amount of distinctive unit entries available to either of those sub-factions (I don't own either book, but from what you've said above we're talking one character, a trait, and a relic or two) to the amount of stuff accrued by the BA/DA/SW over time.

When it comes to the original 18 Legions, I'd much rather see them each get their own book, with proper development, than I would have them merged into "Good" SM and "Spikey" SM books.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Squats, Exodites, Feral Orks, and Arbites would all be great.

In the case of Exodites and Feral orks they could probably recycle some of the plastic models from the AoS/ Fantasy range with some upgrade sprues. Add in units from the parent faction and a couple unique characters and the job is done.

There was a feral Ork army list back in 3rd. It included boar- and madboyz.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
You know, with the subfaction traits system they could probably just merge all of the Chapters in the same book and let the subfaction traits be the same as chapter traits.

Let's not devolve this thread in to that argument please? Every time it comes up it's like twenty pages or more.

 Strg Alt wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
Squats, Exodites, Feral Orks, and Arbites would all be great.

In the case of Exodites and Feral orks they could probably recycle some of the plastic models from the AoS/ Fantasy range with some upgrade sprues. Add in units from the parent faction and a couple unique characters and the job is done.

There was a feral Ork army list back in 3rd. It included boar- and madboyz.

Better BS in view of their increased need to hunt game, so BS4. Wonder why they were popular?

Wild Boyz still do-able, just run Slugga Boyz, but don't shoot Pistols. For Boar Boyz run Nobz - boars ain't quick. Mad Boyz had random effects, so play them as a different Kulture each game.

Only problem is Feral Orks lack a 'Clan', with their 'Kultur' yet to emerge.

Well, snakebites are supposed to be Feral Orks, but the codex doesn't really do a good job of representing that.

BaconCatBug wrote:

 K9ofChaos wrote:
I agree with the notion of having all the Space Marine Chapters be combined into one Codex. I especially don't understand why certain chapters like the Dark Angels and the Blood Angels get their own codices while other chapters don't.

Because they differ from the standard "codex" organisation. Granted, Iron Hands and Salamanders are also meant to but GW don't care about them.

Oh, okay. So they're so structurally different from the average Space Marine chapter that they require their own codex to function properly in the game? Makes sense. Kind of like how more elite units within a given IRL armed force (Such as Green Berets or Navy SEALs, for example) could be structurally different from other units depending on how good they areor what their purpose is, right?

Argive wrote:Good as it should be. My first army the Nids.
Total trash fire when I played. Lost every game but cool models . Granted probably lost because lacking money to buy the good models and being to young to understand the game properly.

Don't we all. Hopefully once I start playing the game I'll have a better time grasping it better then my teenage self though.

cuda1179 wrote:Squats, Exodites, Feral Orks, and Arbites would all be great.

In the case of Exodites and Feral orks they could probably recycle some of the plastic models from the AoS/ Fantasy range with some upgrade sprues. Add in units from the parent faction and a couple unique characters and the job is done.

First time I've heard about the concept of Feral Orks.

You can easily make a Feral Orks army as-is. Just take a bunch of Choppas and restrict ranged weapons heavily. It's going to suck of course (unless the weirdboy gets really lucky) and get tabled.... but that's the point. Feral Orks are a threat to the local PDF on a good day and aren't supposed to be this galactic threat bouncing around the galaxy. From a lore perspective it wouldn't even make sense.

I always had simple reasoning for any feral ork encounter. The other army was on the planet for some other reason and all of a sudden they are just randomly attacked by these crazy primitive orks.

This is the way any ork group starts. They start growing on a planet(either from a failed invasion or just spores flying through space) and they end up being able to get in space themselves by killing the people on the planet or taking out alien visitors.

I LOVE the concept of feral orks and fully plan on converting up a whole army from AoS orks and large beasts.

I don't want to invalidate anyone's opinions, but every time I see people advocating for fewer factions, fewer models, fewer units- I feel like many of you would be happier playing chess.

I mean, if you want a perfectly balanced, tactically rich lean ruled game, there it is.

I have always felt that 40k is not really a game; it is an immersive hobby based on a game that allows us to tell and create stories. I die inside every time they hit the reset button and burn everything down with a new edition.

They've release the same stuff eight times!

If we were still on second ed rules, EVERY faction would be able to soup like the imperium can soup. Than none of the Xeno players would be getting steamrolled Every army would have access to all battlefield roles within their own faction PLUS soup capacity.

People do have a point when they say fix issues with existing factions first. I agree. And I think they'll use kill team and blackstone releases to do that; some particularly egregious codices could get a make-over without re-releasing the whole freakin game. But once that's done, bring on the new.

See, the thing about more options is if you don't like them, you just don't play them. The thing about fewer options is you take choices away from people who want them, and all for nothing because you don't have to actually do that in order to play the game the way you want to.

I've been waiting 30 years for GW to figure out how to move this hobby forward, and I think it may have finally happened. With 40k + Kill Team + Blackstone + Epic, there have never been more ways to grow the universe and tell more stories.

In much the same way that Kill Team has an Arena expansion for ultracompetitive tournament types, maybe they could come up with one of those for 40k, allowing them to please both demographics.As I understand, most tournaments already impose their own limitations in the name of balance, but if you need them to take that further, go ahead.

Just don't insist they do it at the expense of content junkies. There are ways everyone can get what they want, and I think the GW is finally starting to figure that out.

The amount of people talking Cult lore in this thread and getting it wrong is astounding. Pick up the codex and give it a good read, it has variations of the past fates of cults throughout, even new ways for the Cult to find use to the Hive Mind via the Pilgrimage to Ziaphoria.

Anyway, I'd like to see new Xenos factions, lesser Empires that see the chaos and weakness of the Imperiums holdings, and strikes.
I don't particularly care for consolidation of Codexes, but I would like there to be less focus on giving the imperium an answer/tool for everything. They have nearly as many factions as there are opposing factions to them. It's pretty nuts.

As much as I'd like Men of Iron, I feel they would conflict far to heavily with Necrons.