I'm on the verge of pulling the trigger for a bunch of the new Chaos space marine stuff to make up some EC. I have the codex and shadowspear stuff so far however, I'm a bit hesitant in the hopes that Emperors Children will soon see a thousand sons/death guard type of codex in the near future. Especially with all the recent Slaneesh updates.

Maybe its just me but it seems like there is a lack of EC information in the new CSM codex, besides a few pages of lore they have very little in references to anything much, even paint schemes in the book.

Anyway would I be a fool to continue to wait in hope of a dedicated codex before the year is up?

I've been waiting for over two years now, so...

I think it is pretty likely there will be an EC codex, I just have zero idea when.

There's a Slaanesh release coming for AoS soon, perhaps something will piggyback off that?

Normally I'd tell you you're proably safe buying basic troop choices and the like, but the noise marines are so.. dated it's a metal upgrade kit. I'd wait a few months and cross your fingers for plastic noise marines

How would you feel if you bought the Space Marine codex only for an Emperor's Children codex to come out next month?
How would you feel if you bought the Space Marine codex only for an Emperor's Children codex to come out next year?
How would you feel about waiting for two or three years, and playing with something else entirely?

If you're itching to start a CSM-project, I say do it. Play and have fun. When/IF EC get their own codex, just adapt and move on from there.

If you're not that into the current EC-rules, you can always use them as Flawless Host-renegades. They got some solid toys in VA.

As for EC getting a dedicated codex before the year is up? I think they will, but I wouldn't bet on it.

I don't THIIIINK an emperor's children codex is IMMINANT, but we do seem to lack any real images of noise marines, I think at the very least we're gonna get new noise marines pretty soon

The Noise Marine Sonic Weapons are 'Finecast' resin, FYI.

I never noticed this until today, but the Noise Marines Upgrade Pack doesn't specify what it's made of.

It's metal then, eh?

 Excommunicatus wrote:
The Noise Marine Sonic Weapons are 'Finecast' resin, FYI.

I never noticed this until today, but the Noise Marines Upgrade Pack doesn't specify what it's made of.

It's metal then, eh?

we really need plastic noise marines. I wanna hope against hope GW finally gives us them but the fact that they did a major Chaos release just now without them makes me a little leery.

I agree they're badly needed, I don't really agree that their lack of presence in the new release means much of anything.

I reckon we'll get them when the EC codex drops. Which will hopefully be soon.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
I agree they're badly needed, I don't really agree that their lack of presence in the new release means much of anything.

I reckon we'll get them when the EC codex drops. Which will hopefully be soon.

hard to say, death guard where notably not included in the 8th edition CSM 'dex so.. hard to say,

There won't be an Emperor's Children anytime soon... EC are the new Sisters of Battle, everytime someone asks for an EC codex they reset the clock.

GW said the Noise Marine upgrade pack was compatible with the new CSM. That's all you'll get for 2019.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
The Noise Marine Sonic Weapons are 'Finecast' resin, FYI.

I never noticed this until today, but the Noise Marines Upgrade Pack doesn't specify what it's made of.

It's metal then, eh?

Both Noise Marine sets are Finecast. Picked some up last week.

I've been debating this as well, but I bit the bullet on Blackstone Fortress so I can still get a hit of some Chaos, and if I make the renegade guardsmen a Slaaneshi cult, it lets me play with some themes and ideas I have.

I steered away from the new Chaos because I don't ever plan on buying more finecast just to make my guys noise marines.

So there's this new skin cloak teaser thing on Warhammer Community.
Possibly Fabius Bile?
These teasers are normally a few months ahead so maybe something from June onwards?

Probably from Warcry in AoS.

I don't think we'll see EC this year. Maybe next if we're lucky.

Do we know that Emperor's Children will come before World Eaters? What ever happened to the old rumor reliables like Sad Panda? We could use their input.

I don't think anyone is even sure there will be EC or WE books, let alone which will appear first.

I do have the same "problems" I woudl love to start an EC army, does anyone know about female minis to proxy some cultists?

 Ginjitzu wrote:
Do we know that Emperor's Children will come before World Eaters?.

We could get them at roughly the same time as a sort of 40k version and expansion to Wrath and Rapture.

Neither faction would need many kits at this stage just a couple of characters and a troops box or two.

Same boat myself. Decided to wait for release, would suck to buy and build a bunch of stuff just to see it become unplayable. I already have an army so no rush, I been putting money away each week and when it drops I’ll go big.

If you do want to start now though, surefire units are Daemon Prince of Slaanesh, Noise Marines, Rhinos, and most likely both Eidolon, Lucius and Sonic Dreads will get models in the new dex incase you wanted to convert your own ahead of schedule.

I think you could probably go for designing HQ units. For the Noise stuff though, it is tough to say when they'll get a new release.

 Ginjitzu wrote:
Do we know that Emperor's Children will come before World Eaters?.

 Alex Kolodotschko wrote:
We could get them at roughly the same time as a sort of 40k version and expansion to Wrath and Rapture.

That would be spectacular.

 Alex Kolodotschko wrote:
Neither faction would need many kits at this stage just a couple of characters and a troops box or two.

I disagree. I think they need the full Deathguard/Thousand Sons treatment: Berzerkers, Noise Marines, Characters, faction specific gribblies, faction specific terminators, etc.

I could tell you, 'Oh, wait, they'll be right around the corner!' and then the Codex won't come out for 2 years.

I could tell you, 'Nah, they won't come out for a long time...' and then the Codex will drop this Summer.

Do what you want. If you have other stuff on your 'to do' list, go do that first. If you want to get some things for Chaos Marines, do it and consider them as things you could ally with your Emperor's Children in the future.

I personally am not buying a single Noise Marine upgrade kit until they get a plastic kit. I've been waiting 12 years for them to get plastics. I'll wait longer if I have to.

 Ginjitzu wrote:
Do we know that Emperor's Children will come before World Eaters? What ever happened to the old rumor reliables like Sad Panda? We could use their input.

GW's advertising stragety changed. I've always been of the opinion that those leaks where all part of a gurellia advertising campaign to generate hype in advance of offical releases. the fact that the minute GW starts doing stuff like the warhammer community page etc that offically pushes this stuff up, and the leaks largely dry up has only reinforced this opinion of mine. Many of the more reliable leakers I suspect eaither worked for GW, or their source was working and deliberatly leaking bits knowing full well it would get out

BrianDavion wrote:

 Ginjitzu wrote:
Do we know that Emperor's Children will come before World Eaters? What ever happened to the old rumor reliables like Sad Panda? We could use their input.

GW's advertising stragety changed. I've always been of the opinion that those leaks where all part of a gurellia advertising campaign to generate hype in advance of offical releases. the fact that the minute GW starts doing stuff like the warhammer community page etc that offically pushes this stuff up, and the leaks largely dry up has only reinforced this opinion of mine. Many of the more reliable leakers I suspect eaither worked for GW, or their source was working and deliberatly leaking bits knowing full well it would get out

This may or may not be true, I'd like to point out that GW's schedule definitely changes. GSC dex was finished before the Ork dex was, for example.

CSM have just had a major release.

I think its very unlikely EC or WE get a release this year.

I find these conversations bizarre sometimes. Why do you EC/WE players think their faction HAS to have it's own codex with specific units?

Should I just expect a 'Kult of Speed' or Evil Sunz codex for my Orks with similar specific units? Should Eldar players expect a craftworld specific codex? Other factions too?

SM has a ton of bloat codexes from doing this very thing and I thought people hated it?

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
CSM have just had a major release.

I think its very unlikely EC or WE get a release this year.

I find these conversations bizarre sometimes. Why do you EC/WE players think their faction HAS to have it's own codex with specific units?

Should I just expect a 'Kult of Speed' or Evil Sunz codex for my Orks with similar specific units? Should Eldar players expect a craftworld specific codex? Other factions too?

SM has a ton of bloat codexes from doing this very thing and I thought people hated it?

I don't think anyone thinks they have to. I just think it's incredibly likely given:



- Multiple accounts of people saying Games Workshop employees advised them not to buy into old EC models right now.

- The regimental standard for Abaddon basically having the last 1/3rd oddly talk about Emperor's Children https://regimental-standard.com/2019/03/06/great-failures-of-the-despoiler/ Feels like foreshadowing

- Every traitor founding legion being shown in color scheme on the new CSM except for EC and WE, suggestion of new models

- Some of the most outdated models in the game, and GW is focusing on fixing that and seems to want to clean up the Chaos range this year

- Slaanesh release returning to AoS shows GW definitely wants to do something with the factions in general (many expressed that this was in doubt)

- Noise Marine sculpt being released last year, as well as being the most popular model of the entire year

- Two other godsworn CSM factions getting solo dexes

- Fulgrim being spotted in the lore

- The ONLY two Codex chapters missing from the new Codex transfer sheet, being EC and World Eaters

- Most recent rumor engine almost definitely being Fabius




Nothing's a given, GW doesn't have to do it, and it may never come.... but with GW saying they are going to iron out the rules of sub-factions and expand the universe further in that manner once they finish the main dexes (and with SoB inbound I believe we are there, unless you include the discontinued RnH line), I think if I had to bet on the next 40k releases, EC and WE are a strong guess. At the very least, there is probably new models inbound for existing units, and whether or not a dex comes with this is to be seen (I suspect it will), but it's still probably worth waiting for if you want to build the best looking, lore-accurate EC army.

EC are coming, that's for sure.

But there is no shred of clue as to WHEN.
Could be two years from now, could be the very next release after the slaanesh daemons.

What you CAN do, if you want to start an EC army-is start with the "safe" options, by looking at DG/TS to see the common themes.

You can assume the vehicles will stay, probably the daemon engines too.
Princes will stay, though you may want some of the fancy new AOS daemons for that.
Lords/sorcerers/etc are probably safe.
Noise boys are staying, but probably with new models. you can just the current upgrade kit ones, you can wait, or you can get FW Kakophoni (expensive, but looks good.) actually, getting HH era armor (cheap from ebay thanks to BaC and BoP) and then some "sonic weapons" is a good path to make your own noise boys, I did a similar thing for my rubrics.

 SHUPPET wrote:

I don't think anyone thinks they have to. I just think it's incredibly likely given:

I disagree. I think there is very much an expectation and this expectation has been there since the release of the DG codex.

- Multiple accounts of people saying Games Workshop employees advised them not to buy into old EC models right now.

- The regimental standard for Abaddon basically having the last 1/3rd oddly talk about Emperor's Children https://regimental-standard.com/2019/03/06/great-failures-of-the-despoiler/ Feels like foreshadowing

- Every traitor founding legion being shown in color scheme on the new CSM except for EC and WE, suggestion of new models

- Some of the most outdated models in the game, and GW is focusing on fixing that and seems to want to clean up the Chaos range this year

- Slaanesh release returning to AoS shows GW definitely wants to do something with the factions in general (many expressed that this was in doubt)

I think this is all reaching, personally. GW employees have no idea what's going on and if they miraculously do they certainly don't share it. Regimental standards are fluff pieces. Contrary to your colour scheme suggestion I remember GW doing an article on how to convert the new models into Noise Marines or Zerkers. The current models are also in Vigilus ablaze.

To me they would do all the chaos releases st one time then take a break and release other things. I'm surprised Slaanesh are the focus for the next fee months because 'Chaos' as a super faction has just had a huge release.

- Noise Marine sculpt being released last year, as well as being the most popular model of the entire year

What's your source on that?

- Two other godsworn CSM factions getting solo dexes

- Fulgrim being spotted in the lore

- The ONLY two Codex chapters missing from the new Codex transfer sheet, being EC and World Eaters

- Most recent rumor engine almost definitely being Fabius

Fulgrim has been spotted before.
Transfer sheets are interesting.
The new rumour engine could be a whole host of models, including AOS stuff.

Nothing's a given, GW doesn't have to do it, and it may never come.... but with GW saying they are going to iron out the rules of sub-factions and expand the universe further in that manner once they finish the main dexes (and with SoB inbound I believe we are there, unless you include the discontinued RnH line), I think if I had to bet on the next 40k releases, EC and WE are a strong guess. At the very least, there is probably new models inbound for existing units, and whether or not a dex comes with this is to be seen (I suspect it will), but it's still probably worth waiting for if you want to build the best looking, lore-accurate EC army.

I agree on the last bit but I'm just trying to help people manage their expectations here. EC probably won't get a release this year. I don't know this, its pure guesswork, but I would put money on it because GW generally focus on one subfaction within a faction then move on to other things. I could see EC getting something early next year or even at the end of this one. It will be either EC or WE too, I don't think there's any chance they release both at the same time and the other will have to wait another chaos release cycle before they get their dex.

If you want to play games now, then waiting is obviously a poor choice.

Personally I'd just collect an army now, and then if a dedicated Emperor's Children range comes out, add to it and amend it.

I'd predict early 2020, the pattern for the past chaos codex releases have been, a daemon or marine codex in Autumn with the remaining coming out early the next year. So would make sense for Slaanesh this autumn and EC early next year.

Nothing has come off the Khorne release for AoS either, so I do not see why EC would get a codex release anytime soon. It will probably come at the same time as a Fulgrim release, but only Slaanesh him/her/itself knows when that's going to happen, if it's going to happen at all.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

I don't think anyone thinks they have to. I just think it's incredibly likely given:

I disagree. I think there is very much an expectation and this expectation has been there since the release of the DG codex.

I think you're mistaking expectation of a likely outcome, with people demanding that GW have to provide the codex. I literally haven't seen that once.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I think this is all reaching, personally. GW employees have no idea what's going on and if they miraculously do they certainly don't share it.

I've only been told not to buy something once by a GW employee. A month or so later, they started the rumor engine reveals, which led up to Abaddon. I think common sense is telling you that GW employees get no inside info or it would have leaked, and I would agree, if my personal experiences and those of so many others didn't directly contest with it. But whatever, that's a single dot point.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Regimental standards are fluff pieces.

Yes, they are, and the fluff pieces that hinted at the Abaddon reveal were also fluff pieces. This fluff piece arrived with the Abaddon model, was to talk about Abaddon, and for some reason spent the last 3rd of the article talking about EC.

Don't get confused into thinking anyone is saying that this is "hard evidence confirmed proof of an upcoming release". It's just more weight to the suggestion of the likelihood of one. If they were hinting at EC, this is totally the kind of thing they would do.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Contrary to your colour scheme suggestion I remember GW doing an article on how to convert the new models into Noise Marines or Zerkers.

Okay, but this doesn't change that they released a color scheme panel recently with literally every codex Legion color scheme present, with the exception of EC and WE. And not because there wasn't room, those two spots were replaced with the Purge and Flawless Host for the 9 legions on display. The article the other day showcasing a converted squad from GW's modelling team, displaying literally every Legion including Death Guard who DO have their own codex AS WELL AS some renegade bands, as a way to try and sell the new kits, doesn't invalidate this one as a suggestive point.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

- Noise Marine sculpt being released last year, as well as being the most popular model of the entire year

What's your source on that?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/01/10/10th-jan-model-of-the-year-2018-the-top-3gw-homepage-post-3/

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Fulgrim has been spotted before.

We're probably referring to the same time. The point is that they've placed him back in the lore, and they obviously want to sell primarch kits, and he's one of the ones currently somewhat active, sooo.... it's another point.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
The new rumour engine could be a whole host of models, including AOS stuff.

It could be. But take a look at Fabius's design, bottom right. https://www.games-workshop.com/en-FI/Chaos-Space-Marines-Fabius-Bile if you can find me a single model that is more closer to the rumor engine, I'll be extremely surprised, let alone one as in desperate need of an update as Fabius.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Nothing's a given, GW doesn't have to do it, and it may never come.... but with GW saying they are going to iron out the rules of sub-factions and expand the universe further in that manner once they finish the main dexes (and with SoB inbound I believe we are there, unless you include the discontinued RnH line), I think if I had to bet on the next 40k releases, EC and WE are a strong guess. At the very least, there is probably new models inbound for existing units, and whether or not a dex comes with this is to be seen (I suspect it will), but it's still probably worth waiting for if you want to build the best looking, lore-accurate EC army.

I agree on the last bit but I'm just trying to help people manage their expectations here. EC probably won't get a release this year. I don't know this, its pure guesswork, but I would put money on it because GW generally focus on one subfaction within a faction then move on to other things. I could see EC getting something early next year or even at the end of this one. It will be either EC or WE too, I don't think there's any chance they release both at the same time and the other will have to wait another chaos release cycle before they get their dex.

SoB at the very least is splitting them up.

At the very least, there's much more supporting the likelihood of an EC release, than there is for some of the other random gak people talk about getting dexes. Kroot mercs? Primorks? Imperial Fist solo dex? I mean, what else are people even expecting here? EC and WE seem pretty likely in the overall scheme of things.

Babar_babar wrote:I do have the same "problems" I woudl love to start an EC army, does anyone know about female minis to proxy some cultists?

You might like to check out Manufaktura Miniatures 'Sub Series'. They have a thread in News and Rumours. https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/707514.page

I've used Escher heads with Cadian bodies/helmets with some success. Victoria Miniatures sells conversion parts to make female Cadians, too.

Then there's Anvil's Cultist range.



http://anvilindustry.co.uk/regiments-robed-cultists/female-robed-cultist-squad

 SHUPPET wrote:
At the very least, there's much more supporting the likelihood of an EC release, than there is for some of the other random gak people talk about getting dexes. Kroot mercs? Primorks? Imperial Fist solo dex? I mean, what else are people even expecting here? EC and WE seem pretty likely in the overall scheme of things.

While I don't disagree, and I did take a break from the game for a while, I feel like this sentiment has been going on since I started playing around 2008. I even started an EC army and even though I sold some of it, I still have my Rhinos with EC doors and metal Noise Marine bits. It's kind of the same way everyone said that SoB must be around the corner and it never was, well, until it suddenly was. There's no real necessity or contingency we can discern, I don't think. GW's process is too inscrutable for us to really know, in a meaningful way, what they are planning or why.

Good list Shuppet. I'd like to add to it: The new CSM box comes with a pretty tasty transfer sheet, which includes transfers for every main legion except World Eaters and Emperor's Children.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
CSM have just had a major release.

I think its very unlikely EC or WE get a release this year.

I find these conversations bizarre sometimes. Why do you EC/WE players think their faction HAS to have it's own codex with specific units?

Should I just expect a 'Kult of Speed' or Evil Sunz codex for my Orks with similar specific units? Should Eldar players expect a craftworld specific codex? Other factions too?

SM has a ton of bloat codexes from doing this very thing and I thought people hated it?

They both expect it because of how Death Guard and Thousand Sons were handled. Personally I like the layout of both the codices bar the inconsistencies that are in there.

Would I rather they had stayed in the main CSM codex? Absolutely. At least they have tons of unique units unlike Dark and Blood Angels.

 grouchoben wrote:
Good list Shuppet. I'd like to add to it: The new CSM box comes with a pretty tasty transfer sheet, which includes transfers for every main legion except World Eaters and Emperor's Children.

When I first saw the transfer sheet I thought it was a hint that EC and WE were coming. Then I saw Thousand Sons transfers... Why the hell would they include TS transfers for a unit that TS cannot use ? I think GW just messed up really. They forgot about WE and EC.

 Excommunicatus wrote:

Babar_babar wrote:I do have the same "problems" I woudl love to start an EC army, does anyone know about female minis to proxy some cultists?

You might like to check out Manufaktura Miniatures 'Sub Series'. They have a thread in News and Rumours. https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/707514.page

I've used Escher heads with Cadian bodies/helmets with some success. Victoria Miniatures sells conversion parts to make female Cadians, too.

Then there's Anvil's Cultist range.



http://anvilindustry.co.uk/regiments-robed-cultists/female-robed-cultist-squad

Honestly how can you tell they're even female?

Due to an unfortunate and accidental incident in my youth, I have a very strict ID policy.

Oh, you mean the Cultists. I mean, it seems obvious to me even in isolation. Compared to the male Cultists, it's even more obvious. To me, anyway.

 Nym wrote:

 grouchoben wrote:
Good list Shuppet. I'd like to add to it: The new CSM box comes with a pretty tasty transfer sheet, which includes transfers for every main legion except World Eaters and Emperor's Children.

When I first saw the transfer sheet I thought it was a hint that EC and WE were coming. Then I saw Thousand Sons transfers... Why the hell would they include TS transfers for a unit that TS cannot use ? I think GW just messed up really. They forgot about WE and EC.

Unlike Death Guard, TSons can use the transfers on their rubrics, in fact the ones displayed on store do exactly this, except they don't have a transfer sheet... so the fact that they got on the CSM transfer sheet before actual CSM dex legions like EC and WE is even more compelling that these dexes are coming.

Is there a special character you are after or something? You can do emperors children now. Just pick a chapter tactic you like and BOOM you are Emperors children.

Fulgrim is probably going to be coming out eventually. But his box with come with his rules. If emperors children get their own codex (they really shouldn't) the only real difference will be a chapter tactic. What is most likely is emperors children get the Crimson fists treatment. They will get a data sheet with some stratagems in a box set in the future. Just be happy you are getting that.

Ayuh.

Most likely, if you ignore all the evidence that says otherwise.

Rumors don't really qualify as evidence. It is possible they are going to get a codex. TS did get a codex. Real question is why would you want one?

It's exceptionally likely they will get a codex...but I wouldn't plan on it in any type of reasonable timeframe. It seems very likely GW is going for Nurgle/Tzeentch/Khorne/Slaanesh/Black Legion....as their five Chaos options. However that could be 18-36 months away, etc. Heck it may be longer. Until you see genuine consistent teasers, rumour-mill stuff popping up and it becomes obvious....it's not happening.

I agree. Rumours are not evidence. Rumours are also not the totality of what the expectation of EC/WE books is based on.

Circumstantial evidence is still evidence.

Naked assertions will always be naked assertions.

 Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote:
I'm on the verge of pulling the trigger for a bunch of the new Chaos space marine stuff to make up some EC. I have the codex and shadowspear stuff so far however, I'm a bit hesitant in the hopes that Emperors Children will soon see a thousand sons/death guard type of codex in the near future. Especially with all the recent Slaneesh updates.

Maybe its just me but it seems like there is a lack of EC information in the new CSM codex, besides a few pages of lore they have very little in references to anything much, even paint schemes in the book.

Anyway would I be a fool to continue to wait in hope of a dedicated codex before the year is up?

There is no EC codex coming, the only reason people think that is because they know Slaanesh is expected to come out round about now. I'm kit bashing/converting CSM into bezerkers, why not, Its not like I'll get rid when the WE's codex comes out. That's the brilliant thing about Chaos, 'oh one of my berzerkers has an eye of horus symbol on him' well he obviously replaced his broken armour with that out a BL marine.

 Alex Kolodotschko wrote:
So there's this new skin cloak teaser thing on Warhammer Community.
Possibly Fabius Bile?
These teasers are normally a few months ahead so maybe something from June onwards?

While one possibility, Dark Eldar could also be wearing fashionable human skin cloaks to their next parties.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Is there a special character you are after or something? You can do emperors children now. Just pick a chapter tactic you like and BOOM you are Emperors children.

Fulgrim is probably going to be coming out eventually. But his box with come with his rules. If emperors children get their own codex (they really shouldn't) the only real difference will be a chapter tactic. What is most likely is emperors children get the Crimson fists treatment. They will get a data sheet with some stratagems in a box set in the future. Just be happy you are getting that.

Why shouldn't they?

I think you can start on the generic choices. Havocs will be in the EC codex (if and when it drops). CSM squads as well. Hellbrutes and Rhinos as well. Purple Pimp Wagons (Land Raiders) are quite the safe bet as well. So you can start your ECs under the regular CSM dex and should you get an EC codex later on - so much the better.

To the OP: if you want to do actual Emperors Children: wait. They will get their own codex and model line sooner or later, and going by the precedents set by TS and DG you will have some trouble using the current line of models under a new codex. Especially the "line infantry" will most likely get a kit of its own, with the standard CSM not usable for EC.

What you can do with 100% safety is doing a Slaanesh-aligned Renegades force. Not sure if that is your thing, but it fits thematically, and with "Vigilus Ablaze" you get some background and actual rules for them. They can easily ally with codex-EC later on.

Another option is to do a codex-CSM force themed, converted and painted as EC now - and play them as the Renegades mentioned above later on when EC have a seperate codex of their own. You would have a visually coherent force, and would just need different detachments to play them as one army. Be prepared to not being able to port 100% of this army over to the new codex though...

 Kosake wrote:
I think you can start on the generic choices. Havocs will be in the EC codex (if and when it drops). CSM squads as well. Hellbrutes and Rhinos as well. Purple Pimp Wagons (Land Raiders) are quite the safe bet as well. So you can start your ECs under the regular CSM dex and should you get an EC codex later on - so much the better.

Eh. The vehicles are sort of safe, but I would not bet a single penny on the infantry. Neither Havocs nor regular CSM are in the TS or DG codex. I am sure that EC will get their own "heavy weapons guys" - they are part of the background already. If they can be built from the same set as "regular" EC, which would also replace the CSM in their army list... no idea.

If anything, CSM might still be usable in one way or another, with some of the weapon options becoming unavailable most likely.

Death Guard and Thousand sons created a precedent for the fanbase to hold on to.

I've heard it suggested (honest wargamer) podcast that GW have their release chedule planned out for the next 4 years in advance.

Personally I believe that both will get a codex but neither will in 8th edition. They don't need to push more chaos stuff out with vigilus re-stocking CSM. I think it will be wave after wave of Imperial (Primaris) stuff combined with xenos releases.

Slayer-Fan123 773667 10405108 wrote:
Honestly how can you tell they're even female?

Finger lenght to face lenght. Females have longer fingers. Other option would be males with testosteron deficiency.

I've decided to hold out for an actual codex. I have been wanting to start a DG army so maybe I'll occupy myself with that in the meantime.

I don't see many reasons why EC and WE wouldn't get their own codex's. It seems par for the course with traitor legions that have their own "flavor" of troop choice. Rubric marines, plague marines, noise marines and beserkers all unique to their respective legions.

Also with the heavy implications from Gathering Storm and the new lore, and even from a guardsman primer a few months back they mention Fulgrim multiple times.

And besides all the rumors, you really think GW is going to turn down the opportunity to sell more centerpiece primarch models when its one of their best sellers?

I hope they don't do Emperors Childern or the Khorn legion. All 4 mono god trator legions should be 3 or 4 pages each inside the chaos marine book. A troop choice a unique HQ and 1 or 2 other unique units. Thats its. Thats all thats needed if ypu want to play them.

Unique 'dexs are a customer punishing marketing strategy. It sucks having armies locked behind gates. You shouldn't need to "unlock" armies.

Headlss wrote:
I hope they don't do Emperors Childern or the Khorn legion. All 4 mono god trator legions should be 3 or 4 pages each inside the chaos marine book. A troop choice a unique HQ and 1 or 2 other unique units. Thats its. Thats all thats needed if ypu want to play them.

Unique 'dexs are a customer punishing marketing strategy. It sucks having armies locked behind gates. You shouldn't need to "unlock" armies.

Umm, no thanks? I'd like the Emperor's children to get the Thousand Sons and Death Guard treatment. Both of the codexes (codicies?) have a lot of fun units and rules and are solid books. Lots of unique units in both. The emperor's children have the potential for so many ....wonderous...and magnificent units!

Bring em on GW! I want them!

Heafstaag wrote:

Headlss wrote:
I hope they don't do Emperors Childern or the Khorn legion. All 4 mono god trator legions should be 3 or 4 pages each inside the chaos marine book. A troop choice a unique HQ and 1 or 2 other unique units. Thats its. Thats all thats needed if ypu want to play them.

Unique 'dexs are a customer punishing marketing strategy. It sucks having armies locked behind gates. You shouldn't need to "unlock" armies.

Umm, no thanks? I'd like the Emperor's children to get the Thousand Sons and Death Guard treatment. Both of the codexes (codicies?) have a lot of fun units and rules and are solid books. Lots of unique units in both. The emperor's children have the potential for so many ....wonderous...and magnificent units!

Bring em on GW! I want them!

Theres a terrible amount of inconsistencies within the Death Guard codex, but in terms of layout I'm a fan of both them and Thousand Sons. Granted I'm not talking about internal balance and how I would handle certain units (especially Rubric Marines).

I'd much prefer my own EC dex in my hands than 4 pages in CSM dex, and I'd happily pay the cost of a codex, and honestly more just to have this. Call me crazy but if this is "punishing me as a customer" well I damn well like the punishment.

Headlss wrote:
I hope they don't do Emperors Childern or the Khorn legion. All 4 mono god trator legions should be 3 or 4 pages each inside the chaos marine book. A troop choice a unique HQ and 1 or 2 other unique units. Thats its. Thats all thats needed if ypu want to play them.

Unique 'dexs are a customer punishing marketing strategy. It sucks having armies locked behind gates. You shouldn't need to "unlock" armies.

Tell you what, we'll consolidate all of the Space Marine Codexes back into one book, and then we'll put all the Chaos Marines back into one book. Sound fair?

More people are happier about having separate codexes than aren't.

drbored wrote:

Headlss wrote:
I hope they don't do Emperors Childern or the Khorn legion. All 4 mono god trator legions should be 3 or 4 pages each inside the chaos marine book. A troop choice a unique HQ and 1 or 2 other unique units. Thats its. Thats all thats needed if ypu want to play them.

Unique 'dexs are a customer punishing marketing strategy. It sucks having armies locked behind gates. You shouldn't need to "unlock" armies.

Tell you what, we'll consolidate all of the Space Marine Codexes back into one book, and then we'll put all the Chaos Marines back into one book. Sound fair?

More people are happier about having separate codexes than aren't.

That sounds great as well.

I'm gonna wait till Christmas to buy my chaos stuff, just to make sure that no world eaters or emps children are coming out.

Not that GW ever really care about fairness but it would balance out the range of SM dex's as well. DA, SW, and BA all have a separate codex, why shouldn't some of the traitor legions get the same love?

drbored wrote:

Headlss wrote:
I hope they don't do Emperors Childern or the Khorn legion. All 4 mono god trator legions should be 3 or 4 pages each inside the chaos marine book. A troop choice a unique HQ and 1 or 2 other unique units. Thats its. Thats all thats needed if ypu want to play them.

Unique 'dexs are a customer punishing marketing strategy. It sucks having armies locked behind gates. You shouldn't need to "unlock" armies.

More people are happier about having separate codexes than aren't.

Speak for yourself. Rules bloat and therefore bad balancing is not healthy for the game and consolidation helps alleviate the issue.

Getting rid of unique and fun options is worse for the game imo

 SHUPPET wrote:
Getting rid of unique and fun options is worse for the game imo

A new dex doesn't add unique and fun options. It locks your armies up behind gates. How many cool powers and ablities won't work with Death Guard or Thousand Sons because they are their own completely separate legion? I know there were a bunch of them listed in the Chaos Marines tatics thread.

I would love to see unique charcters for Slaanesh. A new heavy support. A herald riding a fiend (instead of a seeker). A keeper of secrets with a snakes tail would be cool as hell.

My point is we shouldn't need a new codex to get them.

We should because at certain point one Codex becomes just too big for is own good. Just look at the Vanilla Codex full of units that cover the same roles and overlaping. So many units that can't be their own thing because they have to addere to the same core rules.

If you have Rubrics, Plague Marines and CSM in the same Codex as troops then one will just be better than the others because they are three units that fulfill the same role nearly in the same way (And we saw this with how for many editions Rubrics being just worse Plague Marines). When you have different enough factions with different enough playstiles and their own amount of units, having them in different Codex allow for more sinergies, options, powers, etc... to make them work as they should.

If you don't want EC and WE books, I would advise that you don't buy EC and WE books.

Complaining about armies being locked behind gates, as if the Codex system is new, is delightfully dishonest.

Codex system is fine. And GeeDubs deliberately making their product hard to use isn't new either. Just try to pick a weapon for one of your sargent types.
You need to flip back and forth between 4 different pages.

The gates and pass keys come in the form of all the new key words. I worry a new codex coming out now will be locked. It will be exclusive, it will be rigid. It will be, "this is how Emperors Children are played and they cannot be played any other way."

Primaris don't cooperate with old Marines, vanguard primaris don't even buff other Primaris. I have heard Death Guard and Thousand Sons are severely limited in what benifits they can get from regular Chaos Marines becuase they can't share a <legion> with some key units.

I don't want that kind of rigidity for EC I would prefer the flexibility of having axcess to the full Chaos Marine Codex.

I want a gold-plated toilet, but it's just not on the cards.

Your worries seem, to me, to be completely overblown and lacking any sort of accord with reality. If you had a Tzeentch or Nurgle CSM force using C:CSM before, you still have one. As far as I can tell, Ahriman and Typhus are the only units lost and both can be run as something else. So, at worst, the evidence suggests that a Slaanesh or Khorne CSM force from C:CSM (8.5/9.0) would lose access to Lucius and Kharn.

True, none of the Codex <Legion> Detachments would interact with C:CSM Detachments all that much or all that well, but that's a different issue altogether.

That's you wanting new rules for free.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Getting rid of unique and fun options is worse for the game imo

How many of those Angels "unqiue" entries are actually unique in function? The answer is only about 3 or 4 of them for each.

It's honestly for their own benefit. Consolidation of the Legions would be a lot harder, but let's not pretend Loyalist Scum chapters are so unique they need a whole codex for each of them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galas wrote:
We should because at certain point one Codex becomes just too big for is own good. Just look at the Vanilla Codex full of units that cover the same roles and overlaping. So many units that can't be their own thing because they have to addere to the same core rules.

If you have Rubrics, Plague Marines and CSM in the same Codex as troops then one will just be better than the others because they are three units that fulfill the same role nearly in the same way (And we saw this with how for many editions Rubrics being just worse Plague Marines). When you have different enough factions with different enough playstiles and their own amount of units, having them in different Codex allow for more sinergies, options, powers, etc... to make them work as they should.

Which is because of GW's approach to the Sorcerer stuck in the Rubric squad.

Also basic Chaos Marines have always been bad since their inception since 5th maybe. I keep saying they need to be replaced with Chosen for a reason, and that's because the CSM trying to be a catch-all for Renegades is actively making it a worse codex.

Also yeah we could remove quite a few entries from the Vanilla codex. Do Assault and Tactical Terminators REALLY need their own entries? No. Do Centurions need to really be separate? No.

Headlss wrote:
Codex system is fine. And GeeDubs deliberately making their product hard to use isn't new either. Just try to pick a weapon for one of your sargent types.

Spoiler:

"This model may take a weapon from the very special list." Where is the very special list? Oh up at the front. What do they do? Way at the back. How much does it cost another table way at the back. Well that seems ok what else can I take, back to the first list, back to the weapons table, oh great, the very special list weapons aren't organized together, alphabetical it is. Back to the cost page. Does that ablity make sense with the stats and ablities on the base unit?

You need to flip back and forth between 4 different pages.

The gates and pass keys come in the form of all the new key words. I worry a new codex coming out now will be locked. It will be exclusive, it will be rigid. It will be, "this is how Emperors Children are played and they cannot be played any other way."

Primaris don't cooperate with old Marines, vanguard primaris don't even buff other Primaris. I have heard Death Guard and Thousand Sons are severely limited in what benifits they can get from regular Chaos Marines becuase they can't share a <legion> with some key units.

I don't want that kind of rigidity for EC I would prefer the flexibility of having axcess to the full Chaos Marine Codex.

You can't give TS, WE, EC and DG the full extend of the Chaos Marine Codex or they end up being CSM+++ just like for many editions Space Wolves where SM+++

 Galas wrote:

Headlss wrote:
Codex system is fine. And GeeDubs deliberately making their product hard to use isn't new either. Just try to pick a weapon for one of your sargent types.

Spoiler:

"This model may take a weapon from the very special list." Where is the very special list? Oh up at the front. What do they do? Way at the back. How much does it cost another table way at the back. Well that seems ok what else can I take, back to the first list, back to the weapons table, oh great, the very special list weapons aren't organized together, alphabetical it is. Back to the cost page. Does that ablity make sense with the stats and ablities on the base unit?

You need to flip back and forth between 4 different pages.

The gates and pass keys come in the form of all the new key words. I worry a new codex coming out now will be locked. It will be exclusive, it will be rigid. It will be, "this is how Emperors Children are played and they cannot be played any other way."

Primaris don't cooperate with old Marines, vanguard primaris don't even buff other Primaris. I have heard Death Guard and Thousand Sons are severely limited in what benifits they can get from regular Chaos Marines becuase they can't share a <legion> with some key units.

I don't want that kind of rigidity for EC I would prefer the flexibility of having axcess to the full Chaos Marine Codex.

You can't give TS, WE, EC and DG the full extend of the Chaos Marine Codex or they end up being CSM+++ just like for many editions Space Wolves where SM+++

That's not why Space Wolves have basically been Marines +1.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
I want a gold-plated toilet, but it's just not on the cards.

Your worries seem, to me, to be completely overblown and lacking any sort of accord with reality. If you had a Tzeentch or Nurgle CSM force using C:CSM before, you still have one. As far as I can tell, Ahriman and Typhus are the only units lost and both can be run as something else. So, at worst, the evidence suggests that a Slaanesh or Khorne CSM force from C:CSM (8.5/9.0) would lose access to Lucius and Kharn.

True, none of the Codex <Legion> Detachments would interact with C:CSM Detachments all that much or all that well, but that's a different issue altogether.

That's you wanting new rules for free.

I don't want them free. I already paid for them twice. I paid for them in the main rule book. I paid for them in the Chaos Marine book. I don't want to have to pay for it a third time.

If you have the Nurgle and Tzench books and you find that they have good and permissive synergies with Codex deamon, and codex choas Marines, you could just say that.

Headlss wrote:

drbored wrote:

Headlss wrote:
I hope they don't do Emperors Childern or the Khorn legion. All 4 mono god trator legions should be 3 or 4 pages each inside the chaos marine book. A troop choice a unique HQ and 1 or 2 other unique units. Thats its. Thats all thats needed if ypu want to play them.

Unique 'dexs are a customer punishing marketing strategy. It sucks having armies locked behind gates. You shouldn't need to "unlock" armies.

Tell you what, we'll consolidate all of the Space Marine Codexes back into one book, and then we'll put all the Chaos Marines back into one book. Sound fair?

More people are happier about having separate codexes than aren't.

That sounds great as well.

I'm curious what army you play, just out of curiosity

Headlss wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Getting rid of unique and fun options is worse for the game imo

A new dex doesn't add unique and fun options.

*Looks at Death Guard* No, totally. For sure. I totally see how having a new dex hasn't added anything unique or fun.

Headlss wrote:
It locks your armies up behind gates. How many cool powers and ablities won't work with Death Guard or Thousand Sons because they are their own completely separate legion? I know there were a bunch of them listed in the Chaos Marines tatics thread.

Those armies have their own tables... Thousand Sons have THREE lol... you aren't missing out on powers or abilities lol you are getting your own, tailor made for your army. So much cool stuff in the these dexes.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Getting rid of unique and fun options is worse for the game imo

How many of those Angels "unqiue" entries are actually unique in function? The answer is only about 3 or 4 of them for each.

It's honestly for their own benefit. Consolidation of the Legions would be a lot harder, but let's not pretend Loyalist Scum chapters are so unique they need a whole codex for each of them.

Are you talking about Blood Angels? Taking the worst example of it and picking a dex that was handled poorly isn't an accurate picture of what it can and should be. Take a look at other factions that have expanded out from their main faction into a dex of their own. Death Guard and TSons, Genestealer Cults, Harlequins, even Dark Angels, these dexes are great. You are conflating an example of bad balance with bad overall design and acting as though it means these dexes are bad, it's most definitely untrue to say that these dexes haven't added a ton of unique and fun options, even if sometimes they whiff, that's a GW balance thing and it's present for dexes that aren't expansions as well. Take a look at Necrons for example.

Headlss wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
I want a gold-plated toilet, but it's just not on the cards.

Your worries seem, to me, to be completely overblown and lacking any sort of accord with reality. If you had a Tzeentch or Nurgle CSM force using C:CSM before, you still have one. As far as I can tell, Ahriman and Typhus are the only units lost and both can be run as something else. So, at worst, the evidence suggests that a Slaanesh or Khorne CSM force from C:CSM (8.5/9.0) would lose access to Lucius and Kharn.

True, none of the Codex <Legion> Detachments would interact with C:CSM Detachments all that much or all that well, but that's a different issue altogether.

That's you wanting new rules for free.

I don't want them free. I already paid for them twice. I paid for them in the main rule book. I paid for them in the Chaos Marine book. I don't want to have to pay for it a third time.

If you have the Nurgle and Tzench books and you find that they have good and permissive synergies with Codex deamon, and codex choas Marines, you could just say that.

What absolute rot.

You paid for the rues in the Rulebok and you paid for the rules in C:CSM, both of which you can still use without restriction.

You haven't paid for any expanded EC/WE rules.

 SHUPPET wrote:

Headlss wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Getting rid of unique and fun options is worse for the game imo

A new dex doesn't add unique and fun options.

*Looks at Death Guard* No, totally. For sure. I totally see how having a new dex hasn't added anything unique or fun.

Headlss wrote:
It locks your armies up behind gates. How many cool powers and ablities won't work with Death Guard or Thousand Sons because they are their own completely separate legion? I know there were a bunch of them listed in the Chaos Marines tatics thread.

Those armies have their own tables... Thousand Sons have THREE lol... you aren't missing out on powers or abilities lol you are getting your own, tailor made for your army. So much cool stuff in the these dexes.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Getting rid of unique and fun options is worse for the game imo

How many of those Angels "unqiue" entries are actually unique in function? The answer is only about 3 or 4 of them for each.

It's honestly for their own benefit. Consolidation of the Legions would be a lot harder, but let's not pretend Loyalist Scum chapters are so unique they need a whole codex for each of them.

Are you talking about Blood Angels? Taking the worst example of it and picking a dex that was handled poorly isn't an accurate picture of what it can and should be. Take a look at other factions that have expanded out from their main faction into a dex of their own. Death Guard and TSons, Genestealer Cults, Harlequins, even Dark Angels, these dexes are great. You are conflating an example of bad balance with bad overall design and acting as though it means these dexes are bad, it's most definitely untrue to say that these dexes haven't added a ton of unique and fun options, even if sometimes they whiff, that's a GW balance thing and it's present for dexes that aren't expansions as well. Take a look at Necrons for example.

I'm talking about both Blood and Dark Angels.

With Genestealer Cults I get what you mean, but it would've been relatively easy to handle them with the Guard codex via switching of keywords. Now they get their cake and eat it too because they get the whole AM codex and a bunch of infiltrating units too. When it comes to Marines, the whole separation for no good reason is causing imbalances. They aren't super unique and special, sorry.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

I'm talking about both Blood and Dark Angels.

Pretty sure Dark Angels is strong as any other SM marine chapter not named Ultramarines, and has tons of DA flavor in it. Not sure that's a good example at all mate. Yeah, Deathwing suck. What's new, GW sucks at making Terminator's playable.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
With Genestealer Cults I get what you mean, but it would've been relatively easy to handle them with the Guard codex via switching of keywords. Now they get their cake and eat it too because they get the whole AM codex and a bunch of infiltrating units too.

.......... so completely removing one of the funnest most unique dexes from the game and turning them into literally a carbon copy of Guard except with a different keyword.... I literally couldn't think of anything that would better exemplify my statement of "Getting rid of unique and fun options is worse for the game imo"

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
When it comes to Marines, the whole separation for no good reason is causing imbalances. They aren't super unique and special, sorry.

Death Guard and TSons say you're wrong, sorry. Bad writing is causing imbalances. There's literally no reason that BA can't be balanced too, it just wasn't, just like Necrons wasn't, and just like Ad Mech wasn't, etc. It's a massive leap to act like Marines are some special snowflake, especially when evidence proves otherwise.

 SHUPPET wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

I'm talking about both Blood and Dark Angels.

Pretty sure Dark Angels is strong as any other SM marine chapter not named Ultramarines, and has tons of DA flavor in it. Not sure that's a good example at all mate. Yeah, Deathwing suck. What's new, GW sucks at making Terminator's playable.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
With Genestealer Cults I get what you mean, but it would've been relatively easy to handle them with the Guard codex via switching of keywords. Now they get their cake and eat it too because they get the whole AM codex and a bunch of infiltrating units too.

.......... so completely removing one of the funnest most unique dexes from the game and turning them into literally a carbon copy of Guard except with a different keyword.... I literally couldn't think of anything that would better exemplify my statement of "Getting rid of unique and fun options is worse for the game imo"

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
When it comes to Marines, the whole separation for no good reason is causing imbalances. They aren't super unique and special, sorry.

Death Guard and TSons say you're wrong, sorry. Bad writing is causing imbalances. There's literally no reason that BA can't be balanced too, it just wasn't, just like Necrons wasn't, and just like Ad Mech wasn't, etc. It's a massive leap to act like Marines are some special snowflake, especially when evidence proves otherwise.

No, AZRAEL is the only thing defining the army, and you admit there's very little strength in the army. Otherwise, what's different? Ravenwing Bikers are just Bikers with nothing worth noting. The fliers are functionally the same as the Talon and Hawk. Deathwing really are just Terminators without the specialization (which is gonna be done anyway, because nobody builds a squad of one Twin LC, TH/SS, Assault Cannon, Chainfist, and a Sarge with a Power Sword. Nobody).
Consolidation with just a few of the units (only the Knights, the Terminator Champ, and special Speeder) will fix bloat and major balancing issues that come from trying to separate everything as though it really needs an identity.
Same thing with the Blood Angels. The Baal Pred is literally just a Pred with an Assault Cannon option, for example. Consolidate them and the only units they need are Sanguine Priests and Guard and Death Company.

If the guys who are playing death guard and thousand sons say they are unique and interesting 'dexes all on their own. Different from Choas Marines and not artificially restricted.

Then I would be interested to see an emperors childern Codex.

I don't want to see a dark Angels treatment. (I have that book not interested, not different enough to justify its own codex in my opinion.) Blood angles, have 3 eleet selections all competing for the same spot, death watch, Vanguard Vets, and those guys with the wings. They all do the same thing slightly differently and I can't tell which to use where. Thats bloat that should be trimmed. Space wolves no one seems excited about, and as far as I can tell their unique trait is they've got wolves on their wolves (yo dawg, I hear you like wolves.)

Someone asked what army I play. I'm starting an Emperors childern army. I would prefer to play it out of the CSM codex, than to have a unique but lame and restrictive codex.

You keep saying the separation causes imbalances when it just doesn't (Not anymore than any other source of imbalance in the hands of GW rules writer, so basically, everything else), and you keep calling it bloat when it isnt because they are their separated Codex. If you don't want it just don't buy it. Bloat is when you need 6 books to play one army.

Vigilus is bloat. White Dwarfs with rules are bloat, having a Dark Angels and a SM Codex isn't.

Babar_babar wrote:
I do have the same "problems" I woudl love to start an EC army, does anyone know about female minis to proxy some cultists?

Victoria miniatures?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

I'm talking about both Blood and Dark Angels.

Pretty sure Dark Angels is strong as any other SM marine chapter not named Ultramarines, and has tons of DA flavor in it. Not sure that's a good example at all mate. Yeah, Deathwing suck. What's new, GW sucks at making Terminator's playable.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
With Genestealer Cults I get what you mean, but it would've been relatively easy to handle them with the Guard codex via switching of keywords. Now they get their cake and eat it too because they get the whole AM codex and a bunch of infiltrating units too.

.......... so completely removing one of the funnest most unique dexes from the game and turning them into literally a carbon copy of Guard except with a different keyword.... I literally couldn't think of anything that would better exemplify my statement of "Getting rid of unique and fun options is worse for the game imo"

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
When it comes to Marines, the whole separation for no good reason is causing imbalances. They aren't super unique and special, sorry.

Death Guard and TSons say you're wrong, sorry. Bad writing is causing imbalances. There's literally no reason that BA can't be balanced too, it just wasn't, just like Necrons wasn't, and just like Ad Mech wasn't, etc. It's a massive leap to act like Marines are some special snowflake, especially when evidence proves otherwise.

No, AZRAEL is the only thing defining the army, and you admit there's very little strength in the army. Otherwise, what's different? Ravenwing Bikers are just Bikers with nothing worth noting. The fliers are functionally the same as the Talon and Hawk. Deathwing really are just Terminators without the specialization (which is gonna be done anyway, because nobody builds a squad of one Twin LC, TH/SS, Assault Cannon, Chainfist, and a Sarge with a Power Sword. Nobody).
Consolidation with just a few of the units (only the Knights, the Terminator Champ, and special Speeder) will fix bloat and major balancing issues that come from trying to separate everything as though it really needs an identity.
Same thing with the Blood Angels. The Baal Pred is literally just a Pred with an Assault Cannon option, for example. Consolidate them and the only units they need are Sanguine Priests and Guard and Death Company.

yeah and death guard are just bloat, I mean plague marines could just be generic chaos marines! death guard termies? well why should they have differant rules.

ya know why? why bother with a space marine codex at all, let's just toss in rules for a tactical squad that can take up to 5 heavy weapons or swap their bolt guns for a chainsword and jump pack, toss it in codex imperial guard and call it a day!

Babar_babar wrote:
I do have the same "problems" I woudl love to start an EC army, does anyone know about female minis to proxy some cultists?

I've been thinking of picking up some a box of the necromunda escher gang, a box of dark eldar and/or daughters of khaine wychhes, witch elves and mixing em all together. Further I've wanted to get a couple boxes of beastmen and mixing them with neophyte hybrids and other 40k bits and having a crazy looking few units of cultists.

DA aren't a very unique army fluff wise, unsurprising that their rules while thematic, still feel like tangent-Marines - they probably are even less unique in combat style than a chapter like Iron Hands or something. For what it is, the dex is fine, captures what few unique stuff the army does have, and isn't a reflection at all on balance or design being impossible for Marine offshoots for actual vastly different forces like EC, Tsons, DGuard, etc.

Headlss wrote:
I hope they don't do Emperors Childern or the Khorn legion. All 4 mono god trator legions should be 3 or 4 pages each inside the chaos marine book. A troop choice a unique HQ and 1 or 2 other unique units. Thats its. Thats all thats needed if ypu want to play them.

Unique 'dexs are a customer punishing marketing strategy. It sucks having armies locked behind gates. You shouldn't need to "unlock" armies.

The OP didn't ask what you wanted. He asked whether or not he should wait, and nothing about your post attempts to answer that question. You've taken this thread wildly off topic by starting a debate that's already happened many times before in more appropriate threads. Shame on you.

^^ Thank you. Sick of seeing people start arguments about whether EC and WE "deserve" a codex, by jaded bitter fans upset that their own factions didn't pan out the way they dreamed, and anti-GW crusaders who see everything fun and new as "consumer unfriendly!". If you don't like it, jog on out of the thread, the discussion was about building an EC army going forward.

I wouldn't expect a third cult legion until the end of the year at the earliest, though that's almost entirely speculation. Remember that Adepta Sororitas are getting a huge slot somewhere between now and December so any speculation about what else is coming along needs to account for the space already filled by them.

I expect the other two cult legions will get their due at some point given how successful both the Thousand Sons and Death Guard releases were, but it's entirely possible it's something that's just "in the future" and isn't on an official calendar currently. Even if EC were to come soon, the only models that would likely be replaced entirely would be Noise Marines; you would lose access to certain other units that would be difficult to predict, of course.

 SHUPPET wrote:
^^ Thank you. Sick of seeing people start arguments about whether EC and WE "deserve" a codex, by jaded bitter fans upset that their own factions didn't pan out the way they dreamed, and anti-GW crusaders who see everything fun and new as "consumer unfriendly!". If you don't like it, jog on out of the thread, the discussion was about building an EC army going forward.

Bam mic drop! exalted!


I cant wait for the other 2 gods to get their pet legions codecies. I'm currently building a Flawless Host warband but as soon as the IIIrd get bespoke new models & demongrim, A full EC army for me it will be.

BrianDavion wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

I'm talking about both Blood and Dark Angels.

Pretty sure Dark Angels is strong as any other SM marine chapter not named Ultramarines, and has tons of DA flavor in it. Not sure that's a good example at all mate. Yeah, Deathwing suck. What's new, GW sucks at making Terminator's playable.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
With Genestealer Cults I get what you mean, but it would've been relatively easy to handle them with the Guard codex via switching of keywords. Now they get their cake and eat it too because they get the whole AM codex and a bunch of infiltrating units too.

.......... so completely removing one of the funnest most unique dexes from the game and turning them into literally a carbon copy of Guard except with a different keyword.... I literally couldn't think of anything that would better exemplify my statement of "Getting rid of unique and fun options is worse for the game imo"

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
When it comes to Marines, the whole separation for no good reason is causing imbalances. They aren't super unique and special, sorry.

Death Guard and TSons say you're wrong, sorry. Bad writing is causing imbalances. There's literally no reason that BA can't be balanced too, it just wasn't, just like Necrons wasn't, and just like Ad Mech wasn't, etc. It's a massive leap to act like Marines are some special snowflake, especially when evidence proves otherwise.

No, AZRAEL is the only thing defining the army, and you admit there's very little strength in the army. Otherwise, what's different? Ravenwing Bikers are just Bikers with nothing worth noting. The fliers are functionally the same as the Talon and Hawk. Deathwing really are just Terminators without the specialization (which is gonna be done anyway, because nobody builds a squad of one Twin LC, TH/SS, Assault Cannon, Chainfist, and a Sarge with a Power Sword. Nobody).
Consolidation with just a few of the units (only the Knights, the Terminator Champ, and special Speeder) will fix bloat and major balancing issues that come from trying to separate everything as though it really needs an identity.
Same thing with the Blood Angels. The Baal Pred is literally just a Pred with an Assault Cannon option, for example. Consolidate them and the only units they need are Sanguine Priests and Guard and Death Company.

yeah and death guard are just bloat, I mean plague marines could just be generic chaos marines! death guard termies? well why should they have differant rules.

ya know why? why bother with a space marine codex at all, let's just toss in rules for a tactical squad that can take up to 5 heavy weapons or swap their bolt guns for a chainsword and jump pack, toss it in codex imperial guard and call it a day!

Seeing as there didn't NEED to be two separate Terminator entries you're not that far off the mark, actually.
Also because of the way Death Guard had certain units treated, the codex does need to be looked at again or consolidated. I like the layout because it's actually a different codex compared to the Angels, but the inconsistencies are ridiculous. You can't deny that.


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 SHUPPET wrote:
DA aren't a very unique army fluff wise, unsurprising that their rules while thematic, still feel like tangent-Marines - they probably are even less unique in combat style than a chapter like Iron Hands or something. For what it is, the dex is fine, captures what few unique stuff the army does have, and isn't a reflection at all on balance or design being impossible for Marine offshoots for actual vastly different forces like EC, Tsons, DGuard, etc.

And you bring up the "unique" units, most of which aren't really that unique. For example, the Ravenwing Champ is no different to the basic Company Champ on a bike to be honest. That is why I'm only for keeping 4 units (the Knights, the Speeder, and the Deathwing Champ), and consolidation. Certain units and wargear not being available just because (Dark Angels not having TFCs and Centurions is silly). A simple 3-4 unique units for each Chapter is just for their own benefit.


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 Galas wrote:
You keep saying the separation causes imbalances when it just doesn't (Not anymore than any other source of imbalance in the hands of GW rules writer, so basically, everything else), and you keep calling it bloat when it isnt because they are their separated Codex. If you don't want it just don't buy it. Bloat is when you need 6 books to play one army.

Vigilus is bloat. White Dwarfs with rules are bloat, having a Dark Angels and a SM Codex isn't.

It is bloat, because it's all based around the same exact few units, and they're all balanced around being Ultramarines with Roboute when you look at the prices. Rules upon rules for the sake of rules is exactly what the Angels are and have been since the inception of Angels of Death.

except why arer dark angels etc bloat but devestator marines not bloat? why not just have tac marines, assault marines and devestators in one entry?

BrianDavion wrote:
except why arer dark angels etc bloat but devestator marines not bloat? why not just have tac marines, assault marines and devestators in one entry?

I'm pretty sure this logic is why Havocs are very different from base CSM now.

Although on the other hand, devs have cherubs so they are actually meaningfully distinct from tacticals beyond what wargear is legal for them.

While we are at it, isn't the tactical marine basically just an upgrade for a guardsman?

BrianDavion wrote:
except why arer dark angels etc bloat but devestator marines not bloat? why not just have tac marines, assault marines and devestators in one entry?

It's a difference of degree, and where you draw the line is fundamentally arbitrary. I find separate books more annoying than separate unit entries because it's used as a justification to deny fair/fluffy/sane options that used to exist (ex. melee Tacticals for people who weren't BT/Space Wolves).

The other problem is that there are eighteen Legions and any number of second founding/younger successors who you could give their "own book" that's 90% copy-pasted out of the central SM book, and you have to make some pretty arbitrary judgement calls to decide that the Dark Angels deserve a whole Codex all to themselves while the Iron Hands deserve a token Chapter Tactics rule, for instance.

BrianDavion wrote:
except why arer dark angels etc bloat but devestator marines not bloat? why not just have tac marines, assault marines and devestators in one entry?

And you're right there ARE units that are bloat for the sake of rules. Tactical and Assault Terminators could be consolidated into a single unit entry with all those options, for example. Hell, you could consolidate the Centurion variants into a single entry as well.

Also there's a hard difference between just those unit entries and a codex copying 90% of those entries and being called an actual codex with any thought put into it (yes, the Angels have little thought put into them, like it or not). There are differences then done for no apparent reason, like Salamanders Tactical Marines suddenly losing Heavy Flamers (hell the whole vanilla codex lost that for their Tacticals) but Blood Angels kept it because arbitrary reasons.


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 Arachnofiend wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
except why arer dark angels etc bloat but devestator marines not bloat? why not just have tac marines, assault marines and devestators in one entry?

I'm pretty sure this logic is why Havocs are very different from base CSM now.

Although on the other hand, devs have cherubs so they are actually meaningfully distinct from tacticals beyond what wargear is legal for them.

And that new Havoc entry is a good thing for keeping the CSM army distinct rather than a bad 90% copypasta.

You guys have a million threads for this stupid argument, that we've all seen a million times in every edition. We have one thread to discuss how best to safely buy into EC right now in the current edition. Can you guys please take this elsewhere? It's not what the OP wanted to discuss at all.


On topic :

I want to build some Noise Marines now, but using Kakophoni models. I'll be happy with keeping that aesthetic for them even into a new EC release, my question is this: their weapons will do for Sonic Blasters, but I need a big heavier weapon that is visually distinguishable to use as their Blastmaster on every one in 5.

Any suggestions? I'm thinking a heavier backpack, probably from the SM Devastator kit as a good start, but maybe a way to make the Kakophoni gun look bigger and heavier would be nice.


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Picture for reference!

I dunno, I think the gun already looks heavy as is.

Appreciate the folks who are trying to keep this on topic. Kudos and exalts for all of you!

Shuppet, if you don't want to spend a ton of money on forgeworld models I had planned on converting some of the new Chaos marines with these. http://www.spellcrow.com/mixed-sonic-guns-p-194.html

You can probably grab a box and slap those on them.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:I dunno, I think the gun already looks heavy as is.

You might be right - maybe I'll use them as the Blastmaster. Suggestions for a stand in for the rest then, to count as Sonic Blasters? A similar aesthetic but less heavy looking would be nice.

Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote:Appreciate the folks who are trying to keep this on topic. Kudos and exalts for all of you!

Shuppet, if you don't want to spend a ton of money on forgeworld models I had planned on converting some of the new Chaos marines with these. http://www.spellcrow.com/mixed-sonic-guns-p-194.html

You can probably grab a box and slap those on them.

Should have said - I'm trying to go for a less "chaosy" aesthetic. Also, I find the Spellcrow stuff to be a bit too cartoony.