Switch Theme:

Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit  [RSS] 

GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 06:38:00


Post by: aracersss


... so not sure if someone already posted this but founded this hours ago
https://www.miniwars.eu/2019/07/subida-de-precios-games-workshop.html#disqus_thread
... credit too miniwars


Spoiler:









GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 06:47:14


Post by: H.B.M.C.


I can't imagine this will stay limited to North America.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 06:51:11


Post by: Thargrim


Why are the BB teams listed at 35 bucks if they are already 35 usd? If BB teams are going up in price I need to know asap cause I was going to get a couple anyways.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 07:02:29


Post by: Chopstick


 Thargrim wrote:
Why are the BB teams listed at 35 bucks if they are already 35 usd? If BB teams are going up in price I need to know asap cause I was going to get a couple anyways.


Probably mean the price is unchanged. That is not the full list, they probably sent a full list of all their store product and people try to snap part of the price that was changed.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 07:34:36


Post by: WhiteDog


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I can't imagine this will stay limited to North America.

I need to know because if it happens, I will insta buy mortarion and put it in a corner because one day or another I will want to paint this amazing mini, but not for 150 euros.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 07:49:11


Post by: BrianDavion


seems odd they're hiking the space marine tac squad pack but not the space wolf pack pack


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 08:01:32


Post by: terry


BrianDavion wrote:
seems odd they're hiking the space marine tac squad pack but not the space wolf pack pack

the same goes for the deamons, bloodletters and plaguebearers are on the list, but deamonettes and pink horrors aren't


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 08:21:59


Post by: MongooseMatt


UK retailers have just been hit with the price rises too...


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 08:23:21


Post by: Gir Spirit Bane


I must confess, the price increase bothers me as a consumer.

As a business man I can understand WHY in these times the increase was thought warranted, but it doesn't mean I have to like it.

I'll stick to my usual, if I like it enough I'll buy it. If I like it but deem it to expensive, I won't and will get creative modelling.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 08:27:51


Post by: BrianDavion


terry wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
seems odd they're hiking the space marine tac squad pack but not the space wolf pack pack

the same goes for the deamons, bloodletters and plaguebearers are on the list, but deamonettes and pink horrors aren't


iirc demonettes and pink horrors are newish, but the space wolf pack is already cheaper then a tactical marine squad. and arguably better if you don't mind the wolf iconography.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 08:34:57


Post by: Chikout


The problem for us as consumers is that demand has been consistently outstripping supply recently. From the business point of view, the logical thing to do is to put prices up until those things balance out. That sucks for those of us who are already unwilling to pay the current prices for some things.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 08:42:33


Post by: Lord Kragan


MongooseMatt wrote:
UK retailers have just been hit with the price rises too...


So its been confirmed it's actually happening?


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 08:54:38


Post by: Theophony


If this is only a partial list, I wonder if the Warhammer Underworlds stuff is going up? Didn’t see any on there, but that would suck.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 09:13:13


Post by: MongooseMatt


Lord Kragan wrote:
MongooseMatt wrote:
UK retailers have just been hit with the price rises too...


So its been confirmed it's actually happening?


It is happening. Got the full list. This is the last week we can order at the old prices.

Some of it makes sense from a retail perspective. Some will annoy gamers. Nothing amazingly huge in terms of jump (though if greater daemons are your thing, buy them this week...).


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 09:15:52


Post by: terry


BrianDavion wrote:
terry wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
seems odd they're hiking the space marine tac squad pack but not the space wolf pack pack

the same goes for the deamons, bloodletters and plaguebearers are on the list, but deamonettes and pink horrors aren't


iirc demonettes and pink horrors are newish, but the space wolf pack is already cheaper then a tactical marine squad. and arguably better if you don't mind the wolf iconography.


deamonettes and pink horrors are almost the same age as bloodletters and plaguebearers(1 year between deamonettes and bloodletters)


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 09:16:09


Post by: Davor


The more things change, the more they stay the same.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 09:34:05


Post by: SleeperAgent


Do things like The Lord of Change suddenly come with more plastic? What justifies raising the retail price $25? Stuff like this is why it's impossible to convince people to start in this game.

I'm out fellas.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 09:38:03


Post by: Overread


Me yesterday "Eh Warcry is coming later this month and I've got loads of unbuilt Tyranids already, I don't "need" the apoc swarm set"

Me today "Pricerise panic - even though its only the hive tyrant going up - but still panic gah"


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 09:39:46


Post by: Just Tony


And so it continues until we get to the point that people stop spending this much on these kits. I've already given up on GW at retail, I have to wonder how many more price hikes it'll take the rest of you.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 09:48:09


Post by: Overread


 Just Tony wrote:
And so it continues until we get to the point that people stop spending this much on these kits. I've already given up on GW at retail, I have to wonder how many more price hikes it'll take the rest of you.


Considering that their sales are currently exceeding their production capacity and they are "just" keeping up at present I'd figure GW has some wriggle room yet. The real issue is conversion abroad. Places like Australia and NewZealand have very high markups on the prices. This is on top of GW having restricted 3rd party sales blocks, which you would think would let them price more fairly to local exchange rates without the risk that everyone buys from a cheaper region and abuses exchange rates.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 09:55:31


Post by: Geifer


 Just Tony wrote:
And so it continues until we get to the point that people stop spending this much on these kits. I've already given up on GW at retail, I have to wonder how many more price hikes it'll take the rest of you.


The problem is that "people" don't stop. Some do. Others don't. When enough people didn't bother with GW anymore, they released bundles with savings to become more attractive again. Now that so many people are buying that they can't satisfy demand, they're raising prices to profit from it. So it'll keep going. It's a slow process and allows GW ample time to counteract should things not go so well anymore.

I reckon the realistic thing to say is "and so it continues" without any qualifier.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 09:59:54


Post by: WhiteDog


 Geifer wrote:
 Just Tony wrote:
And so it continues until we get to the point that people stop spending this much on these kits. I've already given up on GW at retail, I have to wonder how many more price hikes it'll take the rest of you.


The problem is that "people" don't stop. Some do. Others don't. When enough people didn't bother with GW anymore, they released bundles with savings to become more attractive again. Now that so many people are buying that they can't satisfy demand, they're raising prices to profit from it. So it'll keep going. It's a slow process and allows GW ample time to counteract should things not go so well anymore.

I reckon the realistic thing to say is "and so it continues" without any qualifier.

Yeah then release more and more attractives bundles, some limited in time, which is very pernicious because you have enough unit to start an army, but if you want to expand on the bundle you pay the hard price.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 10:11:06


Post by: Aexcaliber


I was thinking about another Helbrute last month. I saw the price and it's Mailorder only, so i did passed. This will affect more products in the future, as i see now.

And this decision will cost GW many customers. Wrong decision in any way.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 10:12:38


Post by: Binabik15


MongooseMatt wrote:
Lord Kragan wrote:
MongooseMatt wrote:
UK retailers have just been hit with the price rises too...


So its been confirmed it's actually happening?


It is happening. Got the full list. This is the last week we can order at the old prices.

Some of it makes sense from a retail perspective. Some will annoy gamers. Nothing amazingly huge in terms of jump (though if greater daemons are your thing, buy them this week...).


How bad is it?

I have xmas money left that is dedicated hobby money. I was going to spend those 100€ on a APOC bundle or a Baneblade...but if GW forces me to buy a GUO before I really needed one and spend less overall, they can be my guest.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 10:16:28


Post by: MongooseMatt


 Binabik15 wrote:

How bad is it?

I have xmas money left that is dedicated hobby money. I was going to spend those 100€ on a APOC bundle or a Baneblade...but if GW forces me to buy a GUO before I really needed one and spend less overall, they can be my guest.


I would not overly worry about it (and the Apoc sets seem very good value - we are using a handful of them to pump up our store armies). As I say, some of these rises do make a degree of sense in the wider scheme of things. The greater daemons caught my eye is all (and it was only the Bloodthirster and Lord of Change - serves them right for not following the one true power).



GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 10:20:51


Post by: Hanskrampf


 Binabik15 wrote:
MongooseMatt wrote:
Lord Kragan wrote:
MongooseMatt wrote:
UK retailers have just been hit with the price rises too...


So its been confirmed it's actually happening?


It is happening. Got the full list. This is the last week we can order at the old prices.

Some of it makes sense from a retail perspective. Some will annoy gamers. Nothing amazingly huge in terms of jump (though if greater daemons are your thing, buy them this week...).


How bad is it?

I have xmas money left that is dedicated hobby money. I was going to spend those 100€ on a APOC bundle or a Baneblade...but if GW forces me to buy a GUO before I really needed one and spend less overall, they can be my guest.

The US list shows the Bloodthirster and LoC brought in line with the GUO and KoS. So 90€->110€ can be expected.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 11:11:58


Post by: Binabik15


Looks like I'll only pick up Warcry then and if a Codex: World Eaters hits I'll never have them field a tiny 'thirster.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 11:15:20


Post by: lord_blackfang


Oh, no, if only we could have forseen this.

 lord_blackfang on january 4th wrote:
Raising the price of SC! is an obvious prelude to raising the price of kits that SC! include, because then you can reframe the second raise as "this makes SC! boxes even better value!"

Then another 6 months later you bring the rest of the kits "into line" and ergo presto, an across the board hike with minimal negative publicity.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 11:22:39


Post by: Not Online!!!



Well now i am officially outpriced. .....
And i really wanted a chaos knight....

Meh, i'll wait for anvil for the new boilersuit renegade platoon and make myself some Irregulars instead.


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Oh, no, if only we could have forseen this.

 lord_blackfang on january 4th wrote:
Raising the price of SC! is an obvious prelude to raising the price of kits that SC! include, because then you can reframe the second raise as "this makes SC! boxes even better value!"

Then another 6 months later you bring the rest of the kits "into line" and ergo presto, an across the board hike with minimal negative publicity.


I'd pat your back if i could but it was obvious. So congratz?


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 13:26:52


Post by: Sersi


terry wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
terry wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
seems odd they're hiking the space marine tac squad pack but not the space wolf pack pack

the same goes for the deamons, bloodletters and plaguebearers are on the list, but deamonettes and pink horrors aren't


iirc demonettes and pink horrors are newish, but the space wolf pack is already cheaper then a tactical marine squad. and arguably better if you don't mind the wolf iconography.


deamonettes and pink horrors are almost the same age as bloodletters and plaguebearers(1 year between deamonettes and bloodletters)


Daemonettes and Bloodletters were released at the same time; along with the 4th Ed Chaos Codex. I'd assume that Daemonettes are on the list somewhere as well, just not in the clipped images. Pink Horror are already $35, as are Blue Horrors which are listed here for $35 so who knows. It should be shocking that a basic 10X troop box that cost $20 10 years ago now costs $35. I guess I've already reached the acceptance phase.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I still can't believe they're selling Khorne Berserkers for $40. They must be pricing them for their rules alone.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 13:33:52


Post by: Stus67


This is why 3D printing is becoming so much more prevalent. I already have a friend with 3 printed Leviathans, and now that Russes are going up I think I might be downloading those files tonight.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 13:39:28


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


Happy Freedom Day America!

Sigh. I was in a GW store and noticed the Chaos Rhino, a 15+ year old model is $39...



GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 14:07:33


Post by: oni


This is unfortunate news.

At first glance I noticed that the list was all of their Made in China products and chalked it up to tariffs, but the further I got down the list I see now that it's a nearly across the board increase.

I think these price increases are a combination of China tariffs and high demand. So, while unfortunate, it's understandable. I don't like it, but there's nothing any of us can do about it. An individual can "vote with your wallet", but at this point your personal protest only hurts your LGS.

Personally, their release schedule has been so rapid that I've stopped buying new models anyway.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 14:19:33


Post by: zend


Sucks that eBay stopped doing the monthly 15% off, would’ve relieved some of the sting of these unnecessary markups.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 15:55:01


Post by: timetowaste85


terry wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
terry wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
seems odd they're hiking the space marine tac squad pack but not the space wolf pack pack

the same goes for the deamons, bloodletters and plaguebearers are on the list, but deamonettes and pink horrors aren't


iirc demonettes and pink horrors are newish, but the space wolf pack is already cheaper then a tactical marine squad. and arguably better if you don't mind the wolf iconography.


deamonettes and pink horrors are almost the same age as bloodletters and plaguebearers(1 year between deamonettes and bloodletters)


This is untrue. Plastic Daemonettes and Bloodletters marked the beginning of the plastic Daemon range together with 4th ed 40k and 7th Ed fantasy. They came out on the same day.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 16:00:22


Post by: axisofentropy


Did those China tariffs on gaming products actually happen or were they just talk?


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 16:16:18


Post by: oni


They happened as far as I'm aware.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 16:28:20


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


Apparently they were 'suspended'. The article is from Xinhua (state-owned media) but the news is legit.

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-07/02/c_138192483.htm


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 16:41:09


Post by: skrulnik


Seems about par for the course with GW.

They are surging in their popularity with all the great new games, KillTeam, BloodBowl, Shadespire, so the number of players has been increasing, and lots of supply issues.

Makes perfect sense to take the air out of that balloon by raising prices.
Then they won't have supply issues, because players will stop buying new stuff and simply play with what they have, or get out while there is still a seller's market.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 16:45:29


Post by: Shaelinith


In the 2019 survey i told them that the prices were too high. Guess they didn't take into account my feedback


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 17:02:54


Post by: Nurglitch


From the looks of things they're raising prices on stuff that sells well.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 17:37:02


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


And the kits are becoming less useful. It's nice to have extras but these days you end up with 10 finished models and a dozen sets of useless heads and arms.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 17:43:44


Post by: Geifer


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
And the kits are becoming less useful. It's nice to have extras but these days you end up with 10 finished models and a dozen sets of useless heads and arms.


If you just assembled your Space Marines with three heads and five arms that wouldn't be an issue. Stop being so conservative!


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 18:49:19


Post by: Boss Salvage


 SleeperAgent wrote:
Do things like The Lord of Change suddenly come with more plastic? What justifies raising the retail price $25?
Annnnnnnd in response to this news I just ordered three LoC from my FLGS

Gods dammit GeeDub


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 18:56:28


Post by: kurhanik


Some of these price hikes make no sense to me. From the perspective of a Guard player, the base Cadian kit is going up 6$, the Command Squad is going up 10$, and the Heavy Weapon Teams are going up 50 cents? I'd say they are looking for round numbers, but from the list several items are still listed with 25 cents etc.

Also man, the Guard Infantry and Sentinels are now around 1 dollar per point. Same goes for the new Termagant price...

I'm probably gonna do one last order to round out stuff I want before the price hikes and then cease purchases for a good long while. All this means to me is that in the long term I save money by not buying.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 19:07:08


Post by: Dread Master


Yeah. Warcry is the last stop for me as a core product. I will keep an eye out for AoS WHQ in the future, but that’s it for me.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 19:09:43


Post by: Obispudkenobi


 Stus67 wrote:
This is why 3D printing is becoming so much more prevalent. I already have a friend with 3 printed Leviathans, and now that Russes are going up I think I might be downloading those files tonight.


Hmm ever considered that 3D printing is the cause and not the solution....
People want to play, people love the fluff,people love the models, people love the hobby...just not enough to hand over the money to keep all that good stuff flowing.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 19:14:20


Post by: VictorVonTzeentch


Obispudkenobi wrote:
 Stus67 wrote:
This is why 3D printing is becoming so much more prevalent. I already have a friend with 3 printed Leviathans, and now that Russes are going up I think I might be downloading those files tonight.


Hmm ever considered that 3D printing is the cause and not the solution....
People want to play, people love the fluff,people love the models, people love the hobby...just not enough to hand over the money to keep all that good stuff flowing.


More likely its a circle; Prices are high, people 3d print, people are 3d printing, prices go up, prices go up... ect


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 19:22:02


Post by: CoreCommander


Nah, it's funny to me to think that 3d printing is even a factor. GW's been very pleased with their finances as of late so people are definitely buying a lot. Probably there are a lot of reasons why the price hike is happening but IMO it is simply because GW can(all finances factored in) and are willing to (more profit) rather than they have to due to rising costs of development, production, logistics distribution etc (which may also be factored in).


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 21:09:10


Post by: silent25


Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? Sad to see this returning, but after SC boxes getting adjusted, figure these were returning.

What this sadly means that the Roundtree expansion is over and GW is returning to it's old methods to increase sales. It was what, about a decade of price hikes before things were about to fall apart? Worried this may be worse than the post-LotR bubble. Even though sales might not drop as much as the LotR crash, they got a lot more attention in the stock market now. They may be punished worse for not delivering continued growth.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 21:17:59


Post by: Azreal13


Lord Kragan wrote:
MongooseMatt wrote:
UK retailers have just been hit with the price rises too...


So its been confirmed it's actually happening?


If a rumour is concerning GW increasing prices, simpmy take it as gospel, it just saves time. Even if that rumour is wrong now it'll probably be right eventually.

Still, there's a wonderful world outside of the GW ecosystem, and if a few people explore that because of this, then that's a decent silver lining.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 21:18:05


Post by: Danny76


I thought I’d read that these price rises are to 3rd party stores.
So not affecting GW stores themselves.
Is that not the case?


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 21:18:32


Post by: Albino Squirrel


Well, how do you think they are going to pay for all these painting videos, web comics, teaser trailers, how to play videos, global events, plastic sisters models, etc? All that community engagement that everyone loves costs money. Developing all those new model lines and paint lines costs money. It has to come from somewhere. And if they're selling out some of their new stuff as fast as their factory can make it...


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 21:20:10


Post by: Azreal13


Obispudkenobi wrote:
 Stus67 wrote:
This is why 3D printing is becoming so much more prevalent. I already have a friend with 3 printed Leviathans, and now that Russes are going up I think I might be downloading those files tonight.


Hmm ever considered that 3D printing is the cause and not the solution....



What, because it wasn't recasting, and it wasn't scratch building, and it wasn't unofficial models and third party bits, maybe it's 3D printing?


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 22:45:57


Post by: Kirasu


 Azreal13 wrote:
Obispudkenobi wrote:
 Stus67 wrote:
This is why 3D printing is becoming so much more prevalent. I already have a friend with 3 printed Leviathans, and now that Russes are going up I think I might be downloading those files tonight.


Hmm ever considered that 3D printing is the cause and not the solution....



What, because it wasn't recasting, and it wasn't scratch building, and it wasn't unofficial models and third party bits, maybe it's 3D printing?


They're all getting to be high quality and cheaper.. so yes. Forgeworld resin is so bad that buying an average 3D printer can get you comparable models these days.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 22:52:55


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


 Azreal13 wrote:
Lord Kragan wrote:
MongooseMatt wrote:
UK retailers have just been hit with the price rises too...


So its been confirmed it's actually happening?


If a rumour is concerning GW increasing prices, simpmy take it as gospel, it just saves time. Even if that rumour is wrong now it'll probably be right eventually.

Still, there's a wonderful world outside of the GW ecosystem, and if a few people explore that because of this, then that's a decent silver lining.


Maybe. Unfortunately, a lot of that outside ecosystem died off recently.

In addition, the organisms that survived tend to be the ones that raise prices themselves to fill the room below GW's new prices. GW is not the only miniature company worth quitting on.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 22:54:26


Post by: Azreal13


 Kirasu wrote:
Spoiler:
 Azreal13 wrote:
Obispudkenobi wrote:
 Stus67 wrote:
This is why 3D printing is becoming so much more prevalent. I already have a friend with 3 printed Leviathans, and now that Russes are going up I think I might be downloading those files tonight.


Hmm ever considered that 3D printing is the cause and not the solution....



What, because it wasn't recasting, and it wasn't scratch building, and it wasn't unofficial models and third party bits, maybe it's 3D printing?


They're all getting to be high quality and cheaper.. so yes. Forgeworld resin is so bad that buying an average 3D printer can get you comparable models these days.


Nah. It's just another in the laundry list of big bads people blame when trying to apologise for GW acting like a company that likes money and knows they have a substantial part of their customer over a barrel.

The drawbacks inherent to FDM technology haven't gone anywhere, and while they're getting cheaper, they're still firmly in the hobbyist/enthusiast category when it comes to usability Nobody with any standards is going to enjoy 32mm scale infantry models unless they're specifically sculpted to work around the limitations, and for a community that gets irritated by mold lines, a SM shoulder pad with about 40 visible layer lines won't pass muster.

Now SLA/DLP works around that to an acceptable degree, but then you encounter much smaller build volumes for the money, making them inappropriate for larger things like tanks etc, as well as accounting for the time, power and raw material costs making it less appealing than just buying a kit off the shelf.

Don't get me wrong, my FDM is an asset to my hobbying, but there's a looong way to go before they're any significant threat to the people who think 40K is a hobby. .


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 23:05:10


Post by: stratigo


Obispudkenobi wrote:
 Stus67 wrote:
This is why 3D printing is becoming so much more prevalent. I already have a friend with 3 printed Leviathans, and now that Russes are going up I think I might be downloading those files tonight.


Hmm ever considered that 3D printing is the cause and not the solution....
People want to play, people love the fluff,people love the models, people love the hobby...just not enough to hand over the money to keep all that good stuff flowing.


GW has been posting record revenue for the past couple years. They are not hurting for revenue


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/02 23:06:22


Post by: Azreal13


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Spoiler:
 Azreal13 wrote:
Lord Kragan wrote:
MongooseMatt wrote:
UK retailers have just been hit with the price rises too...


So its been confirmed it's actually happening?


If a rumour is concerning GW increasing prices, simpmy take it as gospel, it just saves time. Even if that rumour is wrong now it'll probably be right eventually.

Still, there's a wonderful world outside of the GW ecosystem, and if a few people explore that because of this, then that's a decent silver lining.


Maybe. Unfortunately, a lot of that outside ecosystem died off recently.

In addition, the organisms that survived tend to be the ones that raise prices themselves to fill the room below GW's new prices. GW is not the only miniature company worth quitting on.


Depends where you're looking I guess, I've a long list of non GW games I want to explore should the current non GW games I enjoy either cease to cut it or fail to provide me opponents. Even before I canned 40K I was thoroughly enjoying the choice offered by third party manufacturers, and there's still no shortage of those.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 00:00:16


Post by: gungo


Are any of the new sector imperialis buildings in the list.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 00:23:55


Post by: barboggo


Wow. Those are... pretty significant increases. Jeez...


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 01:02:11


Post by: angel of death 007


Obispudkenobi wrote:
 Stus67 wrote:
This is why 3D printing is becoming so much more prevalent. I already have a friend with 3 printed Leviathans, and now that Russes are going up I think I might be downloading those files tonight.


Hmm ever considered that 3D printing is the cause and not the solution....
People want to play, people love the fluff,people love the models, people love the hobby...just not enough to hand over the money to keep all that good stuff flowing.


If they are having an issue with 3D printing being a problem they wouldn't be selling out all the time. Plus GW was raising prices way before 3d printers were available to the average consumer. Hard to blame a 3D printer for what a company was and has been doing for decades.

Hopefully GW will get a good kick in the wallet, especially with great games out there like Star Wars Legion and A song of ice and fire, they got competition in both the sci fi and fantasy realms. Especially if you look at the start up costs nowadays for someone just getting into AoS or 40k. It is a hard sell considering wages in the US haven't gone up in forever.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 01:06:49


Post by: Irkjoe


The prices are high but I imagine everybody is buying gw at least 20% off.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 01:09:33


Post by: Theophony


Shipping costs keep rising, GW has to make up for that somewhere and people would groan if they had to pay actual shipping costs.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 01:31:08


Post by: Yodhrin


 Theophony wrote:
Shipping costs keep rising, GW has to make up for that somewhere and people would groan if they had to pay actual shipping costs.


Would they though? In the UK at least, GW's shipping rate is pretty much what you pay the Post Office as a pleb to send a package, and that's exactly how they do it except you imagine they get a pretty hefty volume discount - if anything the shipping cost now is a bit shonky since people paying the flat rate for small parcels are likely subsidizing the folk doing bigger orders that would cost more to ship. Besides which, third parties typically charge you the actual shipping, which is about the same as GW's price for smaller orders, and jumps up to 2 or 3 times that for bigger ones that have to go via courier.

This isn't about necessity, it's about optics - if they allow older kits to remain at their previous prices for too long, the modern kits start to look unreasonably expensive by comparison.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 02:43:31


Post by: Daedalus81


 Irkjoe wrote:
The prices are high but I imagine everybody is buying gw at least 20% off.


As gakky as it is this is the force behind it. GW is selling like gangbusters, so to slow it down they need to raise prices.

And let's be honest - with the regular eBay discounts PLUS coupons there were some stupid good deals.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 02:57:33


Post by: Midnightdeathblade


The whole, "Well people buy GW at 20% off" excuse/point is meaningless. You still end up paying more, and at this point you probably are paying retail price for a box you purchased years ago at 20% off.

Recasting and 3D printing would be squashed if GW handled their production and actually lowered pricing. No easy tasks for them, especially the later.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 03:00:34


Post by: FabricatorGeneralMike



Wow to all the people who are surprised that GW would raise prices.... are you new here? June/July has been the target date for the 'annual GW product Pound/Dollar synergy/ sku re-organization' since forever. The 2nd quarter ends in june, so hopefully a mid year 'product Pound/Dollar synergy' will give the stock price a little shot in the arm for years ends when they do their holy dividend that MUST be paid ( even so far as going to take out bank loans to pay it).

If you are new around here or think since Nu-GW and Mr Roundtree took ever that things will change, the more things change the more they stay the same.

Thank the God Emperor for 'other markets'


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 03:11:19


Post by: ZergSmasher


With that kind of hikes to the Greater Daemons, 3rd party companies like Creature Caster will probably make bank. Some of the price increases made me laugh though, like raising the cost of the completely neglected Tactical Squad, or Khorne Berzerkers.

Of course, all the recasters in China and Russia and other places will probably end up with new customers too. But that's a discussion for another site because the Dakka mods are kind of touchy about such talk (for good reason!).


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 03:20:58


Post by: Hulksmash


I don't love it. And the percentage is higher than I'd prefer. It did get me to put in an order for some daemonettes I was planning on getting.

GW doesn't have to bump pricing currently. But it's not unreasonable to bump it. And it's better to bump now than when they are suffering.

Also if you think this is going to hurt them you're dreaming. They'll be able to slow down while they get their factory online and in a year or two no one will remember the price bump when they have all their new manufacturing capacity up and running.

Christ, you guys are taking what used to be a yearly increase on all products and losing your minds over a price increase over part of the range that spanned 2 years after what, 4 years of no increases outside of new product, and getting all grumped out.

TLR - Meh, I don't like it but I get it. And $6 here or there isn't going to stop me or most people from buying product.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 05:25:55


Post by: Chopstick


Everyone is buying 20% off, therefore 10-15% price increase is ok.

Guess consumers never win, meanwhile there are people who isn't "everyone" just have to suck it up I guess.

I reckon GW hitting the new all time record high in stock this year also.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 08:10:01


Post by: Rolsheen


As long as we don't get hit with the same percentage increase down here I'm fine


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 08:21:00


Post by: Shas O Ores


is the list on the first page complete? Or are all products going up?


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 08:33:17


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Rolsheen wrote:
As long as we don't get hit with the same percentage increase down here I'm fine
We will eventually. We never escape this crap.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 08:37:16


Post by: Not Online!!!


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Rolsheen wrote:
As long as we don't get hit with the same percentage increase down here I'm fine
We will eventually. We never escape this crap.


actually couldn't it be that you down there are basically the first ones to get hit?

In a way you are allready had that last year right?


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 08:40:28


Post by: Fan67



I can't remember last time I bought warhammer at retail price, usually pay wholesale around -25% off UK retail price, and recent value-kits (like Apocalypse detachments) allow to pay less than half than for individual squads.

So in my book GW initiatives compensate each other out. I pay MUCH less for large boxes, but much higher for individual kits, which are less numerous.

Brexit and pound/$ exchange rate drop might help, but I can't recall last time GW dropped prices. In 2004-2006 buying at US GW Store was cheaper than at UK, like 20% cheaper or so, nowadays it's been reversed.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 08:45:24


Post by: CragHack


I'm more concerned about Forge World, whether we will see a secret price increase, given their expert PR skills.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 09:06:11


Post by: Not Online!!!


 CragHack wrote:
I'm more concerned about Forge World, whether we will see a secret price increase, given their expert PR skills.


At this point , the prices know only one way.
But then again i could care less about forgeworld, beeing priced out there along time ago and no more production of the units i wanted.

Also the new admech thingy costs more then a similarly sized LR variant. I recon there will be a price increase.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 09:17:30


Post by: kurhanik


 Hulksmash wrote:


TLR - Meh, I don't like it but I get it. And $6 here or there isn't going to stop me or most people from buying product.


Just a note, a lot of basic building block units are going up in cost - Ork Boyz, Termagants, and Guardsmen are all going up 6 dollars each. That is a 17% increase to units that are for the most part large blocks of models. That to me is more tedious than individual units going up in price - you only need so many Leman Russ, or Hive Tyrants, but for some builds, 100 infantrymen is average, sometimes bordering on light.

Lucky me I have enough Guardsmen until such a point as the game scale bumps up to 5,000 points and they are 1ppm, but I for the most part nixed any plans of collecting a small Tyranid force with this news.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 10:15:14


Post by: Jacob29


Anyone got the UK prices?

Are Wriathknights going to 80 or 85?

edit: seems like 85 judging by baneblade and Mortarion pricing on 140$ = £85


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 10:44:49


Post by: stonehorse


A more cynical view is that this hike comes a few weeks after the release of Apocalypse... which will no doubt have players wanting to increase their collection.

A sneaky way to increase their profits.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 11:34:42


Post by: SeanDrake


 stonehorse wrote:
A more cynical view is that this hike comes a few weeks after the release of Apocalypse... which will no doubt have players wanting to increase their collection.

A sneaky way to increase their profits.


Ding ding ding we have a winner, there trying to pad the figures so there is no drop compaired to last year's increased financials. Because the problem of record profits is that shareholders etc expect the same the following year. I will predict now if there reports show another record year then these massive price hikes will become a regular occurrence alongside massive amounts of "Ltd" release boxes and a slew of new armies and products.

Because to keep profits up you need increased volume or increased margins and historically GW always chased the margins over volume. New GW went after volume with a slew of new armies and boxed game etc which worked out very well for them. However now it looks like there going for both or at least have a plan B incase volumes stagnate/drop by increasing margins as well.

As for people who say no worries lots of new armies are great I would point you towards AoS a game in which almost no released armies outside of Sigmarines and chaos have had a 2nd release of models and most of the original armies have not even had that. I would hate 40k to end up as Primaris v Chaos getting the lions share with the rest getting scraps every now and again.

A side effect of this is likely to be that the long awaited SoB release is an absolutely eye wateringly expensive army to start if your not fortunate enough to get a couple of the ltd release box sets that will inevitably mark there release.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 11:36:05


Post by: Kirasu


 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
The whole, "Well people buy GW at 20% off" excuse/point is meaningless. You still end up paying more, and at this point you probably are paying retail price for a box you purchased years ago at 20% off.

Recasting and 3D printing would be squashed if GW handled their production and actually lowered pricing. No easy tasks for them, especially the later.


Agreed, it's always one of the most absurd arguments. It doesn't matter if you get 20% off, it's still the SAME PRICE INCREASE.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 11:41:36


Post by: Geifer


SeanDrake wrote:
A side effect of this is likely to be that the long awaited SoB release is an absolutely eye wateringly expensive army to start if your not fortunate enough to get a couple of the ltd release box sets that will inevitably mark there release.


That was going to happen anyway. They're entirely new, and will be priced accordingly, regardless of what happens to old kits.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 11:44:22


Post by: Not Online!!!


God i fear that if the 3rd rumored dex is indeed r&h / lost and the damned / traitor guard.

A horde army with those prices.


Big oooooffffffff


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 11:46:46


Post by: Kanluwen


 stonehorse wrote:
A more cynical view is that this hike comes a few weeks after the release of Apocalypse... which will no doubt have players wanting to increase their collection.

A sneaky way to increase their profits.

If they just wanted to increase their profits, they would release kits they've had sitting on the backburner.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 11:48:01


Post by: Arbitrator


Not Online!!! wrote:
God i fear that if the 3rd rumored dex is indeed r&h / lost and the damned / traitor guard.

A horde army with those prices.


Big oooooffffffff

They'll probably be on par with Genestealer Cults; horde army with 'new model prices'.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 11:54:46


Post by: Not Online!!!


 Arbitrator wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
God i fear that if the 3rd rumored dex is indeed r&h / lost and the damned / traitor guard.

A horde army with those prices.


Big oooooffffffff

They'll probably be on par with Genestealer Cults; horde army with 'new model prices'.


Yay, oh wait not yay.
Screw GW in this case:

I'll wait for anvil to finish their renegade line which allready looks better and is shaping up to look better then the new traitor guards.
AND CHEAPER


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 11:59:22


Post by: SeanDrake


 Kanluwen wrote:
 stonehorse wrote:
A more cynical view is that this hike comes a few weeks after the release of Apocalypse... which will no doubt have players wanting to increase their collection.

A sneaky way to increase their profits.

If they just wanted to increase their profits, they would release kits they've had sitting on the backburner.


Not really new kits have upfront costs and other oppertunity costs baked in that mean GW will make more money per sale on 5,10,15 or even 20 year old kits that paid off there moulds before most of the current player base was born/old enough to play. The old kits are at this stage all profit outside the couple of pence worth of plastic and the cardboard box in fact technically the box is probably worth more than the sprue.

The challange comes in increasing sales of the older often inferior quality plastic kits, if only there had been a way to do that recently


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 12:00:03


Post by: Kirasu


Not Online!!! wrote:
 Arbitrator wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
God i fear that if the 3rd rumored dex is indeed r&h / lost and the damned / traitor guard.

A horde army with those prices.


Big oooooffffffff

They'll probably be on par with Genestealer Cults; horde army with 'new model prices'.


Yay, oh wait not yay.
Screw GW in this case:



I'll wait for anvil to finish their renegade line which allready looks better and is shaping up to look better then the new traitor guards.
AND CHEAPER


No one should buy GW guard over anvil anyway. I cringe at cadian models when you could have so much higher quality minis for the same price.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 12:03:22


Post by: Kanluwen


SeanDrake wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 stonehorse wrote:
A more cynical view is that this hike comes a few weeks after the release of Apocalypse... which will no doubt have players wanting to increase their collection.

A sneaky way to increase their profits.

If they just wanted to increase their profits, they would release kits they've had sitting on the backburner.


Not really new kits have upfront costs and other oppertunity costs baked in that mean GW will make more money per sale on 5,10,15 or even 20 year old kits that paid off there moulds before most of the current player base was born/old enough to play. The old kits are at this stage all profit outside the couple of pence worth of plastic and the cardboard box in fact technically the box is probably worth more than the sprue.

And increased prices on old kits that are floating around on the secondary market result in very little profit while new kits that people don't own or can't easily convert/proxy can offset their investment costs far better.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 12:06:46


Post by: SeanDrake


 Kirasu wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
 Arbitrator wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
God i fear that if the 3rd rumored dex is indeed r&h / lost and the damned / traitor guard.

A horde army with those prices.


Big oooooffffffff

They'll probably be on par with Genestealer Cults; horde army with 'new model prices'.


Yay, oh wait not yay.
Screw GW in this case:



I'll wait for anvil to finish their renegade line which allready looks better and is shaping up to look better then the new traitor guards.
AND CHEAPER


No one should buy GW guard over anvil anyway. I cringe at cadian models when you could have so much higher quality minis for the same price.


There are now a really large amount of guard proxies to suit pretty much any personal taste from gw style ww1 to morden tacticool and everything inbetween from dozens of companies all of which are pretty high quality. There is no excuse for any sales of catachens at all but to be fair there never was but I guess someone somewhere is buying them.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 12:41:50


Post by: Polonius


I'm amused that at this point, you can buy long OOP IG models off ebay for roughly the same price as new plastics. I suppose in the current meta which favors pure rifle squads, the plastics are convenient, but still.

Oh, and steel legion metal squads are still $35. Pity about the grenade launcher and missile launcher though.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 14:16:02


Post by: Gallahad


I'm glad that GW is raising their prices. They could easily crush a huge swath of other businesses in the industry by utilizing their scale to sell their sprues for prices similar to historical kits and setting high minimum unit sizes for their main games.
It would be dirt cheap to start in on their skirmish games, people would buy kits just for the conversion bits, and you could keep the price to get a whole army slightly higher than it is today, but with double the number of models on the table or something.
Basically they could take the Amazon approach and compete in price and service nuking the competition from orbit.
When GW acts like their variable costs to produce plastic sprues is somehow similar to the price of metal or resin models, it creates a ton of breathing room for businesses whose creative vision I find much more compelling than GW's.
Even their last couple of good years with popular releases and some community engagement has put a lot of pressure on other players in the industry.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 14:38:33


Post by: Kirasu


 Gallahad wrote:
I'm glad that GW is raising their prices. They could easily crush a huge swath of other businesses in the industry by utilizing their scale to sell their sprues for prices similar to historical kits and setting high minimum unit sizes for their main games.
It would be dirt cheap to start in on their skirmish games, people would buy kits just for the conversion bits, and you could keep the price to get a whole army slightly higher than it is today, but with double the number of models on the table or something.
Basically they could take the Amazon approach and compete in price and service nuking the competition from orbit.
When GW acts like their variable costs to produce plastic sprues is somehow similar to the price of metal or resin models, it creates a ton of breathing room for businesses whose creative vision I find much more compelling than GW's.
Even their last couple of good years with popular releases and some community engagement has put a lot of pressure on other players in the industry.


What in the world are you talking about? No one is buying Space Marines to play Infinity or Malifaux. People who want skirmish games with good rules instead of rushed games that are basically glorifies sales pitches aren't moving to GW games if they somehow reduced prices.

The Amazon model doesn't make any sense because GW isn't selling the same product like multiple stores on Amazon do.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 15:43:18


Post by: Gallahad


 Kirasu wrote:
 Gallahad wrote:
I'm glad that GW is raising their prices. They could easily crush a huge swath of other businesses in the industry by utilizing their scale to sell their sprues for prices similar to historical kits and setting high minimum unit sizes for their main games.
It would be dirt cheap to start in on their skirmish games, people would buy kits just for the conversion bits, and you could keep the price to get a whole army slightly higher than it is today, but with double the number of models on the table or something.
Basically they could take the Amazon approach and compete in price and service nuking the competition from orbit.
When GW acts like their variable costs to produce plastic sprues is somehow similar to the price of metal or resin models, it creates a ton of breathing room for businesses whose creative vision I find much more compelling than GW's.
Even their last couple of good years with popular releases and some community engagement has put a lot of pressure on other players in the industry.


What in the world are you talking about? No one is buying Space Marines to play Infinity or Malifaux. People who want skirmish games with good rules instead of rushed games that are basically glorifies sales pitches aren't moving to GW games if they somehow reduced prices.

The Amazon model doesn't make any sense because GW isn't selling the same product like multiple stores on Amazon do.

I'm suggesting that people evaluate games along several different vectors, including price, aesthetics, ease of finding opponents, quality of rules, and price.
GW has been dominant in the industry for decades despite rules that are, as you say, just glorified sales pitches. Malifaux and Infinity only exist because GW allowed them to compete on both rules quality and price. I don't think it is coincidence that the current recognizable alternative games in the industry all grew leaps and bounds while GW was busy trying to saw off their own legs.

GW isn't selling the exact same product, but they are certainly selling a substitute. Basic Econ says when the relative price rises, people buy more substitutes. If Malifaux and Infinity got much more expensive to play relative to Kill Team or Necromunda or Bloodbowl, etc. I guarantee that fewer people would be playing them. Which makes them less attractive on the ease of finding an opponent vector which makes fewer people play them....


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 16:01:39


Post by: Kirasu


 Gallahad wrote:
 Kirasu wrote:
 Gallahad wrote:
I'm glad that GW is raising their prices. They could easily crush a huge swath of other businesses in the industry by utilizing their scale to sell their sprues for prices similar to historical kits and setting high minimum unit sizes for their main games.
It would be dirt cheap to start in on their skirmish games, people would buy kits just for the conversion bits, and you could keep the price to get a whole army slightly higher than it is today, but with double the number of models on the table or something.
Basically they could take the Amazon approach and compete in price and service nuking the competition from orbit.
When GW acts like their variable costs to produce plastic sprues is somehow similar to the price of metal or resin models, it creates a ton of breathing room for businesses whose creative vision I find much more compelling than GW's.
Even their last couple of good years with popular releases and some community engagement has put a lot of pressure on other players in the industry.


What in the world are you talking about? No one is buying Space Marines to play Infinity or Malifaux. People who want skirmish games with good rules instead of rushed games that are basically glorifies sales pitches aren't moving to GW games if they somehow reduced prices.

The Amazon model doesn't make any sense because GW isn't selling the same product like multiple stores on Amazon do.

I'm suggesting that people evaluate games along several different vectors, including price, aesthetics, ease of finding opponents, quality of rules, and price.
GW has been dominant in the industry for decades despite rules that are, as you say, just glorified sales pitches. Malifaux and Infinity only exist because GW allowed them to compete on both rules quality and price. I don't think it is coincidence that the current recognizable alternative games in the industry all grew leaps and bounds while GW was busy trying to saw off their own legs.

GW isn't selling the exact same product, but they are certainly selling a substitute. Basic Econ says when the relative price rises, people buy more substitutes. If Malifaux and Infinity got much more expensive to play relative to Kill Team or Necromunda or Bloodbowl, etc. I guarantee that fewer people would be playing them. Which makes them less attractive on the ease of finding an opponent vector which makes fewer people play them....


GW allowed companies to compete based on rules quality and price? Again, what in the world are you talking about? I've played GW games for 25 years and the quality of rules leaves them very low on the quality scale, it's not much of a competition.

Also, technology I would imagine "allowed" companies to start producing more models. Do you also think that GW has allowed miniature games and miniature based board games to thrive on Kickstarter? The drastically lower entry point allowed companies to enter the market.. not some bizarre act or incompetence of GW.

GW isn't a substitute for anything except other GW games because the product is not the same except in the most lazy (and pro-gw ways). If youre in the market to buy a 4 wheel drive truck is a sportscar really a substitute? Sure both are vehicles but that's not what you want to buy.

GW hobbyists, in my experience, tend to be quite insulated from the outside world and don't even consider other games which means the competition aspect is fairly moot. Even when they quit GW games they don't go look for better ones.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 16:02:36


Post by: Boss Salvage


 Gallahad wrote:
I'm suggesting that people evaluate games along several different vectors, including price, aesthetics, ease of finding opponents, quality of rules, and price.
I appreciate that you have price on there twice To that list I'd add "quality of material" and "ongoing support" as important for whether a player both adopts and stays with a game. GeeDub obviously doesn't do all of those well, but its plastic quality is unrivaled, to the point of setting an enormous standard for the industry at large, and it is really hard to fight against its ubiquity. One of the reasons I'm still fething playing GW stuff at all is that I know I can get games in for their flagships ...
If Malifaux and Infinity got much more expensive to play relative to Kill Team or Necromunda or Bloodbowl, etc. I guarantee that fewer people would be playing them. Which makes them less attractive on the ease of finding an opponent vector which makes fewer people play them....
I'm mostly quoting this to say:
a) Malifaux, at least prior to 3E, is a deceptively expensive game, which is also not played as much as it once was, for reasons.
b) I've played Kill Team on the weekly for like a year now and it is easily the most fun, balanced experience I've had playing 40k. It's also extremely cheap to get into as well as increasingly unsupported by the Dub. It drives me crazy that I can't point my new players towards the the starter set with AdMech & GSC, or the terrain + boards that we started with, or any boards at all apart from eBay or the junky new one. Plenty of people pointed out that KT was a cash grab / way to dump terrain and a path to get people to play Bighammer, sucks that I guess they're right? But at least we've still got the books and whatever KT stuff is floating around LGSs? Ignoring that you can direct order some stuff from GW for the moment.

Anyway, angst on liking Kill Team a lot and seeing it get less and less support.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 16:36:25


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


 Kirasu wrote:


No one should buy GW guard over anvil anyway. I cringe at cadian models when you could have so much higher quality minis for the same price.



Heck, even if you're buying from GW, the Necromunda Orlocks, Van Saar and Enforcers will do the job better.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 16:42:59


Post by: Gallahad


 Kirasu wrote:
.

GW allowed companies to compete based on rules quality and price? Again, what in the world are you talking about? I've played GW games for 25 years and the quality of rules leaves them very low on the quality scale, it's not much of a competition.

Also, technology I would imagine "allowed" companies to start producing more models. Do you also think that GW has allowed miniature games and miniature based board games to thrive on Kickstarter? The drastically lower entry point allowed companies to enter the market.. not some bizarre act or incompetence of GW.

GW isn't a substitute for anything except other GW games because the product is not the same except in the most lazy (and pro-gw ways). If youre in the market to buy a 4 wheel drive truck is a sportscar really a substitute? Sure both are vehicles but that's not what you want to buy.

GW hobbyists, in my experience, tend to be quite insulated from the outside world and don't even consider other games which means the competition aspect is fairly moot. Even when they quit GW games they don't go look for better ones.


I don't know if you are intentionally being obtuse or we really are having trouble communicating so I'll try again. GW can't control whether other people put out good rules. Other manufacturers have always been able to compete on the rules vector.
GW can pick (to a large degree) what prices they sell at. Imagine a world where GW sold their plastics at prices similar to historical plastic kit makers. (Please note that historical kit makers are still in business, many selling fairly obscure/specialized plastic kits like Polish Napoleonic Lancers) Do you think that would make it easier or harder for smaller manufacturers to compete on price? I'm honesty a little bit baffled at your confusion on this point.

To claim that GW games aren't really substitutes for or with anything is absurd. Take your example of trucks and sports cars, if trucks suddenly got more expensive relative to sports cars I'd bet that people would buy fewer trucks and more sports cars. Do you disagree? If so, you probably have a good start on a new theory of economics.

Re technology and Kickstarter: Again, imagine you can buy a big ol box of GW plastic for $1 a model and walk out the door with it that day. Does CMON do better or worse than they are doing right now in that scenario?


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 16:50:55


Post by: stratigo


 Gallahad wrote:
 Kirasu wrote:
.

GW allowed companies to compete based on rules quality and price? Again, what in the world are you talking about? I've played GW games for 25 years and the quality of rules leaves them very low on the quality scale, it's not much of a competition.

Also, technology I would imagine "allowed" companies to start producing more models. Do you also think that GW has allowed miniature games and miniature based board games to thrive on Kickstarter? The drastically lower entry point allowed companies to enter the market.. not some bizarre act or incompetence of GW.

GW isn't a substitute for anything except other GW games because the product is not the same except in the most lazy (and pro-gw ways). If youre in the market to buy a 4 wheel drive truck is a sportscar really a substitute? Sure both are vehicles but that's not what you want to buy.

GW hobbyists, in my experience, tend to be quite insulated from the outside world and don't even consider other games which means the competition aspect is fairly moot. Even when they quit GW games they don't go look for better ones.


I don't know if you are intentionally being obtuse or we really are having trouble communicating so I'll try again. GW can't control whether other people put out good rules. Other manufacturers have always been able to compete on the rules vector.
GW can pick (to a large degree) what prices they sell at. Imagine a world where GW sold their plastics at prices similar to historical plastic kit makers. (Please note that historical kit makers are still in business, many selling fairly obscure/specialized plastic kits like Polish Napoleonic Lancers) Do you think that would make it easier or harder for smaller manufacturers to compete on price? I'm honesty a little bit baffled at your confusion on this point.

To claim that GW games aren't really substitutes for or with anything is absurd. Take your example of trucks and sports cars, if trucks suddenly got more expensive relative to sports cars I'd bet that people would buy fewer trucks and more sports cars. Do you disagree? If so, you probably have a good start on a new theory of economics.

Re technology and Kickstarter: Again, imagine you can buy a big ol box of GW plastic for $1 a model and walk out the door with it that day. Does CMON do better or worse than they are doing right now in that scenario?


It's just the standard internet "You have to be wrong about something so I can win" nonsense.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 18:51:54


Post by: Obispudkenobi


 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
The whole, "Well people buy GW at 20% off" excuse/point is meaningless. You still end up paying more, and at this point you probably are paying retail price for a box you purchased years ago at 20% off.

Recasting and 3D printing would be squashed if GW handled their production and actually lowered pricing. No easy tasks for them, especially the later.


No, it wouldn't, people will still use these methods , the simple facts are a certain proportion of the community will always try to scam GW out of money, simply can't be avoided, it's like people who download pdf codex and stream pirated movies, it's nothing to do with price ,it's just some people are parasites. Part of it is an entitlement culture and part of it is easy access to less than savory supply chains.
Doesn't help when you have things like Spikey BITZ promoting IP thieves to the masses just clicks and likes


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 19:03:26


Post by: ScarletRose


Obispudkenobi wrote:
 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
The whole, "Well people buy GW at 20% off" excuse/point is meaningless. You still end up paying more, and at this point you probably are paying retail price for a box you purchased years ago at 20% off.

Recasting and 3D printing would be squashed if GW handled their production and actually lowered pricing. No easy tasks for them, especially the later.


No, it wouldn't, people will still use these methods , the simple facts are a certain proportion of the community will always try to scam GW out of money, simply can't be avoided, it's like people who download pdf codex and stream pirated movies, it's nothing to do with price ,it's just some people are parasites. Part of it is an entitlement culture and part of it is easy access to less than savory supply chains.
Doesn't help when you have things like Spikey BITZ promoting IP thieves to the masses just clicks and likes


Given that music piracy greatly declined once music started being available cheaply I'd have to disagree with the Randian characterization of the unwashed masses,

Also care to point out where Spikey Bitz does this? Note that "28mm miniature" is not GW exclusive IP.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 20:33:27


Post by: Shas O Ores


Does anyone have a price list for europe in euro?


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 20:41:29


Post by: EnTyme


 ScarletRose wrote:
Obispudkenobi wrote:
 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
The whole, "Well people buy GW at 20% off" excuse/point is meaningless. You still end up paying more, and at this point you probably are paying retail price for a box you purchased years ago at 20% off.

Recasting and 3D printing would be squashed if GW handled their production and actually lowered pricing. No easy tasks for them, especially the later.


No, it wouldn't, people will still use these methods , the simple facts are a certain proportion of the community will always try to scam GW out of money, simply can't be avoided, it's like people who download pdf codex and stream pirated movies, it's nothing to do with price ,it's just some people are parasites. Part of it is an entitlement culture and part of it is easy access to less than savory supply chains.
Doesn't help when you have things like Spikey BITZ promoting IP thieves to the masses just clicks and likes


Given that music piracy greatly declined once music started being available cheaply I'd have to disagree with the Randian characterization of the unwashed masses,

Also care to point out where Spikey Bitz does this? Note that "28mm miniature" is not GW exclusive IP.


It declined. It didn't disappear. As Obispudkenobi said, there is a certain percentage of the population that will steal a product no matter what. I disagree with the "entitlement culture" portion of his post, though. Some of that base piracy level is a combination of economics (can't afford it, but still want it) and contrarianism (I'm not going to pay for it because that's what The Man wants me to do!). The largest part of it is and always will be convenience. As Gabe Newell put it (paraphrasing), piracy is a service issue. If you make your product easier to purchase than it is to steal, most people will purchase it.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 20:44:40


Post by: Grot 6


BOHICA, with a touch of FUBAR!!!!

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this news.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 20:52:36


Post by: Not Online!!!


Obispudkenobi wrote:
 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
The whole, "Well people buy GW at 20% off" excuse/point is meaningless. You still end up paying more, and at this point you probably are paying retail price for a box you purchased years ago at 20% off.

Recasting and 3D printing would be squashed if GW handled their production and actually lowered pricing. No easy tasks for them, especially the later.


No, it wouldn't, people will still use these methods , the simple facts are a certain proportion of the community will always try to scam GW out of money, simply can't be avoided, it's like people who download pdf codex and stream pirated movies, it's nothing to do with price ,it's just some people are parasites. Part of it is an entitlement culture and part of it is easy access to less than savory supply chains.
Doesn't help when you have things like Spikey BITZ promoting IP thieves to the masses just clicks and likes


Ironically piracy has two causes.

9/10 times the Service provided is inadequate. (gabe Newell)

1/10 times it's the pricing.

You can regard the living ruleset of 8th as Service.
Guess what, it sucks, is badly done and questionable often. GW literally forces matched play players to buy balance Patches. 1/year. Yeah bad Service.

Then gw however also messes up the pricing.
Take the new Chaos havocs f.e. 53 chf for 5 models.
That is excessive.
Gsc, a rather hordy army, 46 chf / 10 dudes that are about 60 ppm fully equipped.

GW gives people therefore double the reason to get pirated.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Grot 6 wrote:
BOHICA, with a touch of FUBAR!!!!

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this news.


Cry if you are one of the armies not having good 3rd Party support.
Laugh because gw in essence is back at square 1.

And as my grandma always told me: Schadenfreude isch E schöni Freud "
Or Schadenfreude is a beautiful happiness.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 21:18:06


Post by: Polonius


 Gallahad wrote:
 Kirasu wrote:
.

GW allowed companies to compete based on rules quality and price? Again, what in the world are you talking about? I've played GW games for 25 years and the quality of rules leaves them very low on the quality scale, it's not much of a competition.

Also, technology I would imagine "allowed" companies to start producing more models. Do you also think that GW has allowed miniature games and miniature based board games to thrive on Kickstarter? The drastically lower entry point allowed companies to enter the market.. not some bizarre act or incompetence of GW.

GW isn't a substitute for anything except other GW games because the product is not the same except in the most lazy (and pro-gw ways). If youre in the market to buy a 4 wheel drive truck is a sportscar really a substitute? Sure both are vehicles but that's not what you want to buy.

GW hobbyists, in my experience, tend to be quite insulated from the outside world and don't even consider other games which means the competition aspect is fairly moot. Even when they quit GW games they don't go look for better ones.


I don't know if you are intentionally being obtuse or we really are having trouble communicating so I'll try again. GW can't control whether other people put out good rules. Other manufacturers have always been able to compete on the rules vector.
GW can pick (to a large degree) what prices they sell at. Imagine a world where GW sold their plastics at prices similar to historical plastic kit makers. (Please note that historical kit makers are still in business, many selling fairly obscure/specialized plastic kits like Polish Napoleonic Lancers) Do you think that would make it easier or harder for smaller manufacturers to compete on price? I'm honesty a little bit baffled at your confusion on this point.

To claim that GW games aren't really substitutes for or with anything is absurd. Take your example of trucks and sports cars, if trucks suddenly got more expensive relative to sports cars I'd bet that people would buy fewer trucks and more sports cars. Do you disagree? If so, you probably have a good start on a new theory of economics.

Re technology and Kickstarter: Again, imagine you can buy a big ol box of GW plastic for $1 a model and walk out the door with it that day. Does CMON do better or worse than they are doing right now in that scenario?


I think you're overstating how elastic the demand for GW products is, and the extent to which GW players see other hobby plastics as substitute goods.

I'm a pretty plugged in hobbyist, and I'm still not likely to move money from GW into historical or skirmish games. Why? Because miniatures aren't just goods used by me, they allow me to interact with other owners. Sure, if GW raises prices, that makes Warlord Pike and Shotte models look a ton cheaper, but they will still have less value, because nobody I know plays Pike and Shotte. At best, it will goose the sales of the largest competitors, which at this point is mostly FFG. Maybe the ASOIAF game takes off, or PP makes a return, but the odds are people aren't going to turn from a game they can play in nearly any hobby shop to something that's played by only small pockets of players.

On the flip side, this same inelasticity means that GW will likely not lose all that many sales. I think people will keep buying.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/03 23:28:35


Post by: totalfailure


 Polonius wrote:

On the flip side, this same inelasticity means that GW will likely not lose all that many sales. I think people will keep buying.


This, x1000000. We go through this every price increase. Does anyone like them? Of course not. But the bean counters at GW have far more info than we do, and they feel any customers lost will be more than offset by the higher prices. And, they have been right this countless times in the past, and I doubt this price increase will be any different. History is very much on GWs side here.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/04 00:37:18


Post by: Azreal13


Yeah, I've long since given up on the idea that it'll make any difference. For a while there, while Kirby had driven things so low, I did, somewhat optimistically, think that they may cook their goose.

But anyone who witnessed some of the most venomous GW critics hitch up their skirts, load their money cannons and point them at Nottingham as soon as they started a Facebook page will realise, there is not much they can do that won't be forgotten once the new shiny rolls out.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/04 00:47:36


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Wonder when we'll see results from their big survey...


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/04 00:56:04


Post by: Azreal13


Perhaps we have? Perhaps the overriding feedback was "your stuff doesn't cost enough money?"


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/04 01:22:59


Post by: FabricatorGeneralMike


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Wonder when we'll see results from their big survey...



Hopefully I win the Sisters army...even though I told them I bought a few Horus Heresy armies but didn't give a penny to Forgeworld other then books (man I hate pdf's nothing like the real book in your hand).... Man that Sisters army would be awesome to win


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/04 01:46:48


Post by: Ghaz


 FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Wonder when we'll see results from their big survey...



Hopefully I win the Sisters army...even though I told them I bought a few Horus Heresy armies but didn't give a penny to Forgeworld other then books (man I hate pdf's nothing like the real book in your hand).... Man that Sisters army would be awesome to win

You do know they announced the winners back in May?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/05/27/battle-sister-bulletin-part-8-retributors-first-lookgw-homepage-post-4/


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/04 06:07:44


Post by: DaveC


Looks like € prices will be affected as well

via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
it seems GW will be increasing their prices in the € zone. Prices seem to be going up from 0.75-5.5€ on things.
I only compared about 10 things and the lowest was measuring tape at 0.75€ more and highest was Fenrisian wolves at 5.5€ more.
There are probably things with lower increases and higher increases, it doesn't seem to be % based and I've seen one thing even go down in price.
Stormboyz on GW Netherlands costs €23 but on German page 22.5€ and the new price is 22.5€ so price reduction/correction on some things?


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/04 06:42:11


Post by: smurfORnot


I love being parasite and leech ....mmmm...sooo good...


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/04 11:20:02


Post by: Geifer


Fenrisian woofies go up by that much? Awesome. I always thought that kit was good value for money. Not anymore, I guess.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Wonder when we'll see results from their big survey...


Not sure we will. For the 2017 survey they specifically said they'd give us a rundown on the top items (and then didn't). I don't recall any such statement about the 2019 survey.

I expect we'll get "you told, we listened" kind of remarks occasionally when they announce anything, but that's it.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/04 13:39:39


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Geifer wrote:
I expect we'll get "you told, we listened" kind of remarks occasionally when they announce anything, but that's it.
'In our last survey you guys talked a lot about our prices... and we listened! Our new and improved prices are even better than last year's prices. We're only rolling them out to some of our range right now, but don't worry; we'll get around to improving the rest of our prices soon enough!!!'



GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/04 14:05:19


Post by: Geifer


Sounds good to me. GW should hire you.

On that note, remember January?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/01/04/a-quick-heads-up/

In the spirit of openness, we’ve got a quick bit of news for you today: as of the 4th of February this year, the price of paints and some of the Start Collecting! sets will change.


Aren't we missing that spirit of openness a little this time around? Guess they couldn't think of a way to sugarcoat this one.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/04 15:59:47


Post by: SamusDrake


Shaelinith wrote:
In the 2019 survey i told them that the prices were too high. Guess they didn't take into account my feedback


Same.

That said, I also mentioned the lack of local events; I really do not want the journey'n'hotel hassle for an event in Sheffield or Nottingham. They could be increasing the price to accomodate the other things we would like changed.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/04 16:14:09


Post by: stratigo


 totalfailure wrote:
 Polonius wrote:

On the flip side, this same inelasticity means that GW will likely not lose all that many sales. I think people will keep buying.


This, x1000000. We go through this every price increase. Does anyone like them? Of course not. But the bean counters at GW have far more info than we do, and they feel any customers lost will be more than offset by the higher prices. And, they have been right this countless times in the past, and I doubt this price increase will be any different. History is very much on GWs side here.


And since they are important CORPORATE PEOPLE, they of course know best. That is why GW has never ever run into financial issues and declining sales. Ever.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/04 16:27:07


Post by: SickSix


How they keep raising prices on some of their oldest kits is something only GW doesn't see as ludicrous.

By the time my son is old enough to play a basic troop kit is going to be close to $100.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/04 16:45:19


Post by: SeanDrake


In the uk they made the price rise retroactive in that anything ordered by a flgs after the announcement was at the higher price even if stuff in store was not going up yet.

I guess they learned there lesson after the start collecting issues.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/04 17:02:24


Post by: Fajita Fan


LOL I pulled the trigger last night and ordered my Custodes army I've been wanting for a year because of this and now reading the list they're not on there. LMAO


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/04 18:40:36


Post by: SamusDrake


 Fajita Fan wrote:
LOL I pulled the trigger last night and ordered my Custodes army I've been wanting for a year because of this and now reading the list they're not on there. LMAO


Tsk-tsk. And you still haven't got around to those Reavers! Not having a good day, are you?


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/04 22:43:40


Post by: Arbitrator


 Fajita Fan wrote:
LOL I pulled the trigger last night and ordered my Custodes army I've been wanting for a year because of this and now reading the list they're not on there. LMAO

Eh, look at it this way. If these price rises 'work' everything else will jump up before too long.

SamusDrake wrote:

That said, I also mentioned the lack of local events; I really do not want the journey'n'hotel hassle for an event in Sheffield or Nottingham. They could be increasing the price to accomodate the other things we would like changed.

I remember when they opened that 'Gaming Centre' just across the road from Meadowhall a long time ago (must be over a decade now)? If I remember right, it was meant to be their way of expanding their big event hubs outside of just Nottingham. It didn't last too long unfortunately. That being said, now I think about it, it was almost identical to their design of the Citadel Cafe with the expanded stock, casual lounging area and such. Maybe we'll see a return to that some day, particularly Darn Sarf.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/05 08:23:51


Post by: SamusDrake


Lets hope so, Arbitrator!



GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/05 10:21:23


Post by: kendoka


I have no problem with high(er) GW prices.

The quality of their (newer) minis are second to none and IMHO the inflated pricing is a price I gladly pay for them having their own physical stores - which none of the ”competition” has.
Among other things this (although costly compared to internet-only) provides is a guarantee of ongoing support and higher probabilities of finding other players.

I will never forget GW for blowing up the Old World and replacing it with a high fantasy mess (fluff wise) - and I find some of their rules lacking (not to mention nonexistant proof reading/QA for Necromunda) - but prices on minis, games and books are still totallt worth it.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/05 10:45:47


Post by: SeanDrake


 kendoka wrote:
I have no problem with high(er) GW prices.

The quality of their (newer) minis are second to none and IMHO the inflated pricing is a price I gladly pay for them having their own physical stores - which none of the ”competition” has.
Among other things this (although costly compared to internet-only) provides is a guarantee of ongoing support and higher probabilities of finding other players.

I will never forget GW for blowing up the Old World and replacing it with a high fantasy mess (fluff wise) - and I find some of their rules lacking (not to mention nonexistant proof reading/QA for Necromunda) - but prices on minis, games and books are still totallt worth it.


LoL maybe Kirby and Merrit were right after all, I always find the forums after a price hike 7x times higher than inflation pretty depressing.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/05 11:07:50


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


 SickSix wrote:
How they keep raising prices on some of their oldest kits is something only GW doesn't see as ludicrous.

By the time my son is old enough to play a basic troop kit is going to be close to $100.


Does kind of make sense, after a fashion.

Production costs go up over time. So the cost of making new kits increases. And being a sensible business, you need to set the unit price to reflect that if you want some profit.

If you only tied your price to the original production cost, you end up with a strange pricing model. Older kits are far cheaper than new kits. Net result? You risk nobody buying your new kits, in preference of the older and cheaper ones.

Raise them all roughly in-line, and you avoid that.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/05 11:45:10


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


which they did used to do with their annual everything goes up (above inflation) day which certainly upset everybody,

id rather the more occasional price rise on some of the older kits (every 3-4 years I think that's how long its been except for the paints and SC boxes) even if it does come as a shock when it happens

(I would like to have seen the new price list released generally rather than just to retailers though since I've still not seen a complete on, just various bits often selected to show the highest rises and it would make it easier do decide what you should buy first if you want to make the most of your money)


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/05 11:57:32


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


I know this isn't going to be a popular opinion by any stretch, but (until this one) they've been far more restrained of late - and have even explored various different price points within the wider hobby (Skirmish games etc).

One does wonder if this might be an attempt to safeguard themselves in case the political situation in the UK goes full on Ploin Shaped? If the pound is at risk of tanking, I think higher international prices insulates them somewhat, leading to a more predictable income for the foreseeable (I may be completely wrong on this!)


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/05 12:26:54


Post by: Azreal13


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I know this isn't going to be a popular opinion by any stretch, but (until this one) they've been far more restrained of late - and have even explored various different price points within the wider hobby (Skirmish games etc).

One does wonder if this might be an attempt to safeguard themselves in case the political situation in the UK goes full on Ploin Shaped? If the pound is at risk of tanking, I think higher international prices insulates them somewhat, leading to a more predictable income for the foreseeable (I may be completely wrong on this!)


Yes, practically every word.

If the pound tanks, that US$50 kit suddenly becomes worth far more £ than it was previously. Ditto the € and every other currency. Considering their total non domestic sales are greater than their domestic sales, this would only potentially be bad news in some weird reality where the of raw materials is somehow independently and disproportionately affected from their retail sales, which is a near economic impossibility.

Also..this?

they've been far more restrained of late


Is objectively false, they've just pursued their stated policy of imposing price rises on new releases. So they've essentially raised prices on an almost weekly basis, you just have to pay attention to notice because they're not technically price rises if the product is new. This is the first retrospective rise in a bit, but they've never stopped cranking the handle.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/05 12:34:23


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


You cannot raise a price on a new product though?

That's been their approach for a while, and this is the first time in a while they've upped the sticker on an existing product, no?

And I thought I got the other bit wrong. However, it does provide some insulation from higher import tariffs for the plastic etc, as they'll have more cash on hand.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/05 12:58:23


Post by: Albertorius


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
You cannot raise a price on a new product though?

No. You just set it higher to begin with, so you don't need to. Which they have done, almost every time.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/05 13:03:57


Post by: Azreal13


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
You cannot raise a price on a new product though?

That's been their approach for a while, and this is the first time in a while they've upped the sticker on an existing product, no?

And I thought I got the other bit wrong. However, it does provide some insulation from higher import tariffs for the plastic etc, as they'll have more cash on hand.


I hope you warmed up first, stretching that hard from a standing start could cause a serious injury.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/05 17:49:52


Post by: Grot 6


 SickSix wrote:
How they keep raising prices on some of their oldest kits is something only GW doesn't see as ludicrous.

By the time my son is old enough to play a basic troop kit is going to be close to $100.


Locally, basic boxes of a squad are wavering around 55 dollars... vehicles are going for 80.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/05 20:58:03


Post by: Obispudkenobi


 Albertorius wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
You cannot raise a price on a new product though?

No. You just set it higher to begin with, so you don't need to. Which they have done, almost every time.


Nope, the price is the price, if on release something is £50 ,it's price is £50, the community can't just assume it was actually £40 but GW increased it for gaks and giggles.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/05 21:20:58


Post by: Overread


Obispudkenobi wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
You cannot raise a price on a new product though?

No. You just set it higher to begin with, so you don't need to. Which they have done, almost every time.


Nope, the price is the price, if on release something is £50 ,it's price is £50, the community can't just assume it was actually £40 but GW increased it for gaks and giggles.


I believe his point is that whilst the model is new and thus the price is the first price it will ever have. The price is raised compared to the price that models of a similar nature have been in the past.
So the price for a "troop" has raised, for example.

This assumes comparing like for like - so a hero to a hero of similar scale and dimensions. Clearly things like the new Greater Demons compared to their old counterparts are very different because the new models are a different material and many times the size of the originals, even though they sit in roughly the same segment of the army (heroes)




Of cousre this can be a bit muddy to read esp for something like Age of Sigmar where a lot of models changed roles. Eg Daughters of Khaine Witch Aelves were once an elite unit pack designed to be bought perhaps a few times and that was it; now they are a core troop to be used multiple times. Yet their price never lowered so they appear very overpriced compared to other regular troop choices for other armies.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/05 21:29:43


Post by: Polonius


stratigo wrote:
 totalfailure wrote:
 Polonius wrote:

On the flip side, this same inelasticity means that GW will likely not lose all that many sales. I think people will keep buying.


This, x1000000. We go through this every price increase. Does anyone like them? Of course not. But the bean counters at GW have far more info than we do, and they feel any customers lost will be more than offset by the higher prices. And, they have been right this countless times in the past, and I doubt this price increase will be any different. History is very much on GWs side here.


And since they are important CORPORATE PEOPLE, they of course know best. That is why GW has never ever run into financial issues and declining sales. Ever.


It's not a question of infallibility, but simply access to the information that only GW would have internally.

Here's a speculative example: maybe they have data which shows that people buying single unit kits at retail fall into three camps:
1) People buying at release
2) people buying to complete a specific army, possibly for tournament play
3) or buy units without much concern for price.

Then, they find that the people buying bundles are people that are big collectors, but are price conscious.

So, you have two large profit centers: people that buy small amounts regularly because they want it now, and people that buy larger kits because it's a deal.

If I had that data, I would advise the company to increase the prices of kits, while also rolling out more, and often time limited, bundles. This way, you can capture two large profit centers.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/05 21:44:53


Post by: stratigo


 Polonius wrote:
stratigo wrote:
 totalfailure wrote:
 Polonius wrote:

On the flip side, this same inelasticity means that GW will likely not lose all that many sales. I think people will keep buying.


This, x1000000. We go through this every price increase. Does anyone like them? Of course not. But the bean counters at GW have far more info than we do, and they feel any customers lost will be more than offset by the higher prices. And, they have been right this countless times in the past, and I doubt this price increase will be any different. History is very much on GWs side here.


And since they are important CORPORATE PEOPLE, they of course know best. That is why GW has never ever run into financial issues and declining sales. Ever.


It's not a question of infallibility, but simply access to the information that only GW would have internally.

Here's a speculative example: maybe they have data which shows that people buying single unit kits at retail fall into three camps:
1) People buying at release
2) people buying to complete a specific army, possibly for tournament play
3) or buy units without much concern for price.

Then, they find that the people buying bundles are people that are big collectors, but are price conscious.

So, you have two large profit centers: people that buy small amounts regularly because they want it now, and people that buy larger kits because it's a deal.

If I had that data, I would advise the company to increase the prices of kits, while also rolling out more, and often time limited, bundles. This way, you can capture two large profit centers.


You are literally just making gak up though.

GW has fethed up basic 101 level economics before, and corporations have literally driven the world economy into the ground over self defeating fast profit schemes before. What is driving any price rise is not usually based on long term market analysis, but an eye on short term margins that pad immediate profit that strokes the wallets of disconnected share holders and can justify the bonus of the executives. The sustainability of such practices is never the point because there's no real consequence for failure for the people who implement these policies.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/05 21:47:03


Post by: Not Online!!!


Ayy, short term their little scheme may work out.
Long and Midterm, recasters and 3D printer owners will have a field day.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/05 22:25:15


Post by: Albertorius


Obispudkenobi wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
You cannot raise a price on a new product though?

No. You just set it higher to begin with, so you don't need to. Which they have done, almost every time.


Nope, the price is the price, if on release something is £50 ,it's price is £50, the community can't just assume it was actually £40 but GW increased it for gaks and giggles.

"It" can just assume that's the price GW wants that type of unit to be from now on. Which, it is the same type and has the same amount of sprues/etc. as many others, well... guess what, it has gone up.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/05 22:40:45


Post by: Galas


Wait so back then GW said they weren't gonna raise prices but keep making new kits more expensive to compensate.

They have done the second but they are also gonna raise prices of old kits?

Ok.

Is not like those products are worth more. Quite the contrary with how cheap in points everything is now and how new models are much better than older ones.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/05 23:26:03


Post by: Polonius


stratigo wrote:


You are literally just making gak up though.

GW has fethed up basic 101 level economics before, and corporations have literally driven the world economy into the ground over self defeating fast profit schemes before. What is driving any price rise is not usually based on long term market analysis, but an eye on short term margins that pad immediate profit that strokes the wallets of disconnected share holders and can justify the bonus of the executives. The sustainability of such practices is never the point because there's no real consequence for failure for the people who implement these policies.


Well, I was speculating on the sort of data and strategy that could be driving their decision making, which while admittedly involves making stuff up, I feel like my guess has a good chance of being accurate. I think there are large cohorts of both price insensitive consumers as well as value conscious consumers in the market. I think it’s prudent to entice both to buy your products.

As for second point, yes, experts have been wrong with catastrophic results. That doesn’t mean they are always wrong. You can get all freakanomics and talk about the cases when experts have been shown to be wrong, but that’s usually by other, better experts. Pricing consumer goods is not an unknowable mystery, and GW is a publicly traded company with professional management. They could be making a mistake, but they probably aren’t.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/05 23:27:09


Post by: Hulksmash


Meh, it's really not that big of a deal. It does feel like a realignment to their new pricing or to make similar stuff within armies cost the same (i.e. bumping all but the tzeentch demon troops to match the tzeentch number). Over all it is what it is. The hobby is booming and this wont slowing down.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/05 23:29:25


Post by: Polonius


Not Online!!! wrote:
Ayy, short term their little scheme may work out.
Long and Midterm, recasters and 3D printer owners will have a field day.


I don’t think an extra few bucks is what’s going to drive people to recasters. GW prices are on the high end for minis already, I think the impact will be marginal.

Also, 3D printing simply isn’t viable yet for most GW stuff, and the recasters struggle with plastic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Hulksmash wrote:
Meh, it's really not that big of a deal. It does feel like a realignment to their new pricing or to make similar stuff within armies cost the same (i.e. bumping all but the tzeentch demon troops to match the tzeentch number). Over all it is what it is. The hobby is booming and this wont slowing down.


Yeah, the price hikes during the dark days of 6th/7th had a real air of squeezing some quick cash out of the whales and die hards. This is during a time of growth, and notably this decision was made after seeing the results of bumping up Start Collecting boxes.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/06 00:42:46


Post by: Tokhuah


Since I am done buying GW products but own a bunch this is great news. I just made a potential killing without spending any money. I hope GW continues to hike prices across the board because I would love to sell a Monoliths at a Tesseract amount. Let's get there lads!


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/06 01:18:04


Post by: tneva82


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
You cannot raise a price on a new product though?

That's been their approach for a while, and this is the first time in a while they've upped the sticker on an existing product, no?

And I thought I got the other bit wrong. However, it does provide some insulation from higher import tariffs for the plastic etc, as they'll have more cash on hand.


But if new kit costs more than previous totally comparable kit...and next one...soon we have unit boxes costing 100 when same kind of kit used to be 50. Different poses sure cost much!


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/06 01:39:50


Post by: Azreal13


GW have previously stated in their annual report that their preferred strategy was to increase prices as new product was released, rather than an annual across the board increase.

If people are prepared to do the mental gymnastics necessary to try and frame that as "not a price rise" are clearly desperate to defend GW rather than have a reasonable conversation and beyond redemption.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/06 03:24:28


Post by: H.B.M.C.


tneva82 wrote:
But if new kit costs more than previous totally comparable kit...and next one...soon we have unit boxes costing 100 when same kind of kit used to be 50. Different poses sure cost much!
It's worse than that. Cadians used to come in boxes of 20. They're about to go up in price again, and there's half as many models in there.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/06 03:43:04


Post by: Chopstick


And people tried to justify price hike like GW is some indie company struggling financially when the reality is their profit skyrocket in every recent report. They would survive fine with the old price. But I figure the investors wouldn't be very happy to see the profit have a slight drop.

The reality for the consumer is if you don't like the price, just walk, or wait for those bundle box and ebay/split them.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/06 05:06:36


Post by: stratigo


 Polonius wrote:
stratigo wrote:


You are literally just making gak up though.

GW has fethed up basic 101 level economics before, and corporations have literally driven the world economy into the ground over self defeating fast profit schemes before. What is driving any price rise is not usually based on long term market analysis, but an eye on short term margins that pad immediate profit that strokes the wallets of disconnected share holders and can justify the bonus of the executives. The sustainability of such practices is never the point because there's no real consequence for failure for the people who implement these policies.


Well, I was speculating on the sort of data and strategy that could be driving their decision making, which while admittedly involves making stuff up, I feel like my guess has a good chance of being accurate. I think there are large cohorts of both price insensitive consumers as well as value conscious consumers in the market. I think it’s prudent to entice both to buy your products.

As for second point, yes, experts have been wrong with catastrophic results. That doesn’t mean they are always wrong. You can get all freakanomics and talk about the cases when experts have been shown to be wrong, but that’s usually by other, better experts. Pricing consumer goods is not an unknowable mystery, and GW is a publicly traded company with professional management. They could be making a mistake, but they probably aren’t.


The problem is that you think the experts are incentivized to make sustainable smart long term decisions. And they are not. Nor are they incentivized to make decisions in the best interests of their consumers. All the incentives are about making profit NOW. As much as you can, always more than last year. If you have to burn the future for a few dollars more today, you will, because the experts don't suffer many ill effects, but get large bonuses for doing such things. Corporations are not, as you seem to thing, run by randian super men just better than everyone else. People will do what benefits them the most in the short term.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/06 11:06:56


Post by: Geifer


 Overread wrote:
Of cousre this can be a bit muddy to read esp for something like Age of Sigmar where a lot of models changed roles. Eg Daughters of Khaine Witch Aelves were once an elite unit pack designed to be bought perhaps a few times and that was it; now they are a core troop to be used multiple times. Yet their price never lowered so they appear very overpriced compared to other regular troop choices for other armies.


For the record, in the Dark Elves army book released alongside the plastic Witch Elves, Witch Elves were a Core and Sisters of Slaughter a Rare choice. GW just went with a ludicrous price as if they were only ever going to sell any single Dark Elf player two boxes for Sisters of Slaughter. That was in 8th ed where there was every incentive to have multiple blocks of forty or fifty Witch Elves.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/06 12:28:23


Post by: stratigo


I don't play fyreslayers because of price as a note. I would spend way more money if my money went farther.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/06 12:37:38


Post by: Albertorius


stratigo wrote:
I don't play fyreslayers because of price as a note. I would spend way more money if my money went farther.

Basically this. The higher the cost, the more careful I'm gonna be with my spenditures.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/06 16:41:14


Post by: Volkmair


While not exactly connected to the NA price rises, does anyone know what's going on with the UK prices as some of the third party sellers seem to have implemented a price rise before GW themselves with a higher RRP on some items then GWs own website. For example Element Games has the RRP of a Riptide as £65 but the GW site still has it as £50.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/06 16:47:04


Post by: stratigo


This whole price rise thing is a bit of a snafu and we really need gw to say something about it


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/06 16:53:35


Post by: Just Tony


stratigo wrote:
This whole price rise thing is a bit of a snafu and we really need gw to say something about it


Overpricing isn't a bug as far as GW's plan, it's a feature. They will push prices as high as they can as long as people are willing to spend it.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/06 17:02:48


Post by: SeanDrake


Volkmair wrote:
While not exactly connected to the NA price rises, does anyone know what's going on with the UK prices as some of the third party sellers seem to have implemented a price rise before GW themselves with a higher RRP on some items then GWs own website. For example Element Games has the RRP of a Riptide as £65 but the GW site still has it as £50.



The price rises in the UK were retroactive on anything ordered after the announcement, so basically if store A has it in stock they can sell it at the lower price but if store B has to order it in then it’s at the new extortionate price.
GW are terrified of repeating the SC box fiasco so we will not be getting any warning about price hikes in future.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/06 17:11:58


Post by: Volkmair


SeanDrake wrote:
Volkmair wrote:
While not exactly connected to the NA price rises, does anyone know what's going on with the UK prices as some of the third party sellers seem to have implemented a price rise before GW themselves with a higher RRP on some items then GWs own website. For example Element Games has the RRP of a Riptide as £65 but the GW site still has it as £50.



The price rises in the UK were retroactive on anything ordered after the announcement, so basically if store A has it in stock they can sell it at the lower price but if store B has to order it in then it’s at the new extortionate price.
GW are terrified of repeating the SC box fiasco so we will not be getting any warning about price hikes in future.


Man that's confusing as prices are all over the place until every store has used up all their old price stock.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/06 17:38:59


Post by: ReconDetachment


This strikes me as the tipping point before 3d printing becomes mass adopted. We've just about hit the point where high quality SLA 3d printers are almost at a trivial price point when placed into the perspective of this hobby. In fact, the sale that Elegoo was running on their mars 3d printer, 249 freedom bucks off of Amazon, a few days ago strikes me as being the point where mass adoption becomes feasible.

After all, there are many kits that provide a downright terrible value, and it strikes me that most people would be very hard pressed to justify buying multiple kits that have gone up in price but have not been updated in a decade or longer. Especially, when we could instead buy a 10$ set of 3d models from an independent modeler, and print a customized and highly detailed alternative sculpt.

Overall, I suspect that the market is going to face a decent amount of disruption in the near future, and it will be interesting to see how the current players in this sphere react to these developments.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/06 19:03:34


Post by: EnTyme


I've seen that comment probably 2-3 times per year for the last four years. Why is this any different?


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/06 19:13:28


Post by: barboggo


It's different because good quality 3d printers are approaching impulse-buy prices.

Yes people have been talking about them for years, but despite the tech being available, the price to quality ratio wasn't there yet. That is no longer the case.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/06 19:22:04


Post by: John Prins


 EnTyme wrote:
I've seen that comment probably 2-3 times per year for the last four years. Why is this any different?


It isn't any different. Everyone touting 3D printing casually dismisses any post-processing work or printer failures or the cost of resins (because the good printers are resin, not filament), or any of a number of other issues involved. If you want to make 3D printing stuff part of your hobby, that's great, but it's not a care-free experience and you're still not getting the same level of quality unless you're using a really high end rig (in the thousands, not hundreds).


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/06 20:03:09


Post by: EnTyme


 barboggo wrote:
It's different because good quality 3d printers are approaching impulse-buy prices.

Yes people have been talking about them for years, but despite the tech being available, the price to quality ratio wasn't there yet. That is no longer the case.


Hey! That's the same reply I got the last 6 times I asked that question!


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/06 20:21:43


Post by: Chopstick


If by 3d printing you mean actually buy a 3d printer and print it yourself then I can inform you that it would be unlikely to "take over" GW business.

The moment GW ditch the old "too complicated" rule and replace it with simplified rule that even simpleton could play with their profit skyrocket and players start pouring in. And you expect that same players would do something like print their own models? These players have money, they aren't stupid, they're just really lazy.

Also not to mention the waiting, the sanding and knifework after. printing....hmmm nope too complicated and time consuming.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/06 20:41:52


Post by: Albertorius


 EnTyme wrote:
I've seen that comment probably 2-3 times per year for the last four years. Why is this any different?

Well, in my particular case this time is different because I actually have a resin printer now.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/06 20:57:28


Post by: Azreal13


 barboggo wrote:
It's different because good quality 3d printers are approaching impulse-buy prices.


But they're nowhere near plug and play useability.

I'd been printing with my i3 for a week before I realized it was horribly calibrated. Then there's learning how to use slicer software and how best to slice the model for minimum trouble/max quality. I'm still not done with the list of things I need to calibrate/measure to ensure I've got everything dialed in almost two months on.

Then there's the build times...

Also the cost of STLs if purchased from a professional, while not huge in most cases, can often be high enough to make just buying a similar kit a consideration. Thingiverse and similar are an excellent resource, but the lack of gatekeeping means any spod can upload any old crap without so much as test printing it themselves. This is fairly easy to spot, but requires some knowledge which circles back to my point about needing to learn stuff.

People seem to have this idea they're somehow like the replicators from the Enterprise, it in reality they're more like a tool such as an airbrush, an excellent method of achieving certain things, but I'm pretty sure my local art store still has racks of hairy brushes.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/06 21:27:30


Post by: Monkeysloth


I have lots of printers (4) and I still buy minis.

Terrain however I've pretty much stopped buying as is just so much cheaper to print your own and some amazing designs out there for a good price. And if you're a big terrain person you're use to tinkering with things to make it so 3d printing is a natural evolution of that.

As for them becoming a replacement for cast minis. Eventually they will. SLA (resin) style printers are probable the type that can be made mostly "plug and play" based off of how the tech works (only one moving part and just needs to be cleaned with iso) but I don't see a large market for that right now so it will be a slow build up as manufactures compete as there's really not much difference between a $400 and a $600 SLA printer. They're easy to keep going too as you just swap out a LCD screen once it's burned out.

FDM printers probable never will be as there's too many moving parts, too many fail points and need regular maintenance even if the consumables are much cheaper.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/06 21:37:52


Post by: Azreal13


Agreed on all points.

One of the main things I've developed since getting an FDM printer is the desire to get an SLA one too!



GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/07 08:36:47


Post by: SeanDrake


Seems a good place to ask but is there a good budget SLA printer?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Seems a good place to ask but is there a good budget SLA printer?


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/07 09:05:09


Post by: slave.entity


The first barrier was cost-to-quality ratio which we're starting to hit. The next will be ease of use. Hobbyists are already starting to own 3d printers exclusively for 40k. My neighbor does. Spent under $200 for an Ender 3 and we've already printed a ton of terrain with it. It's fantastic.

They're still a pain to calibrate and yeah, the comparison to airbrushes is a pretty good one. Hopefully they will get more plug and play in the next couple of years. But currently they are already completely accessible for roughly the amount of money and effort it takes to use a mid-range airbrush setup.

That sounds like a tipping point to me.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/07 09:19:46


Post by: Munster


SeanDrake wrote:
Seems a good place to ask but is there a good budget SLA printer?

.

It depends... I'm having fun with an Anycubic Photon S and it does very high quality prints, but many prefer the original Photon due to the better community support (and you can almost modify it to S structure)

The Epax X1 is considered the correct version of the Photon S (shares the operating system with the Photon)

The Mars is ok but has a small community.

Not much out there about the proposed Prusa, but that will likely be the most expensive of them all


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/07 09:44:36


Post by: SeanDrake


Munster wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:
Seems a good place to ask but is there a good budget SLA printer?

.

It depends... I'm having fun with an Anycubic Photon S and it does very high quality prints, but many prefer the original Photon due to the better community support (and you can almost modify it to S structure)

The Epax X1 is considered the correct version of the Photon S (shares the operating system with the Photon)

The Mars is ok but has a small community.

Not much out there about the proposed Prusa, but that will likely be the most expensive of them all


Thanks for the advice, so the Mars is ok is it? Because at £220 it is way cheaper than the others and is like 1 months hobby money so I could give it a try.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/07 12:11:56


Post by: Shas O Ores


on Facebook some people say also items like the Riptide go up 15 Pound, does anyone have a more complete list? I would buy lots of stuff if more items than the ones on the list would go up in price tomorrow...


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/07 12:31:12


Post by: Coenus Scaldingus


SeanDrake wrote:
GW are terrified of repeating the SC box fiasco so we will not be getting any warning about price hikes in future.

Could anybody fill me in on what happened? I see a few references to it in this thread, but haven't a clue what exactly occurred.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/07 13:20:23


Post by: Kanluwen


 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:
GW are terrified of repeating the SC box fiasco so we will not be getting any warning about price hikes in future.

Could anybody fill me in on what happened? I see a few references to it in this thread, but haven't a clue what exactly occurred.

The Start Collecting sets went up in price, anywhere from $5USD to $10USD.

Not sure how it's a "fiasco" but basically it was in response to the fact that some items were effectively 'free' for some of those sets.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/07 13:39:08


Post by: Overread


I wasn't a fiasco - GW just got lots of orders in before raising the price on the boxed sets when they announced the rise approaching. If anything it likely did their sales a really good turn in generating a load of extra sales even if it put production under increased load stress (which honestly until their new factory comes online appears to be pretty normal for GW at present).


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/07 13:39:33


Post by: stratigo


 Kanluwen wrote:
 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:
GW are terrified of repeating the SC box fiasco so we will not be getting any warning about price hikes in future.

Could anybody fill me in on what happened? I see a few references to it in this thread, but haven't a clue what exactly occurred.

The Start Collecting sets went up in price, anywhere from $5USD to $10USD.

Not sure how it's a "fiasco" but basically it was in response to the fact that some items were effectively 'free' for some of those sets.


You need more quotation marks on free. Cause they're only free if you consider that GW doesn't already overcharge all their gak.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/07 13:43:34


Post by: Kanluwen


stratigo wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:
GW are terrified of repeating the SC box fiasco so we will not be getting any warning about price hikes in future.

Could anybody fill me in on what happened? I see a few references to it in this thread, but haven't a clue what exactly occurred.

The Start Collecting sets went up in price, anywhere from $5USD to $10USD.

Not sure how it's a "fiasco" but basically it was in response to the fact that some items were effectively 'free' for some of those sets.


You need more quotation marks on free. Cause they're only free if you consider that GW doesn't already overcharge all their gak.

An $85 Carnosaur set came with Saurus Warriors and Knights in the SC.

You can whine about the prices all you like, but an $85 Carnosaur plus extra items equals free.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/07 14:37:11


Post by: stratigo


 Kanluwen wrote:
stratigo wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:
GW are terrified of repeating the SC box fiasco so we will not be getting any warning about price hikes in future.

Could anybody fill me in on what happened? I see a few references to it in this thread, but haven't a clue what exactly occurred.

The Start Collecting sets went up in price, anywhere from $5USD to $10USD.

Not sure how it's a "fiasco" but basically it was in response to the fact that some items were effectively 'free' for some of those sets.


You need more quotation marks on free. Cause they're only free if you consider that GW doesn't already overcharge all their gak.

An $85 Carnosaur set came with Saurus Warriors and Knights in the SC.

You can whine about the prices all you like, but an $85 Carnosaur plus extra items equals free.


No it literally doesn’t. Like in the actual definition of free, it isn’t free. REMOVED - BrookM, but if you are paying money for something, eg the start collecting box, then you aren’t getting anything free. This is marketing. It is like a product on sale that is never not on sale, put the word sale is a positive psychological motivator to buy a product. Over charging for a product and then offering a bundle where something is offered “free” is an extremely common marketing tool because it manipulated a person’s comparative ability, and comparing gak is one of the biggest functions of the human brain.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/07 14:38:33


Post by: Kanluwen


Did you pay for the additional products?

No? Then they were free.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/07 14:47:25


Post by: timetowaste85


stratigo wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Did you pay for the additional products?

No? Then they were free.


“I said sumthin and I are smrt, so thing is right.”

Look up the definition of words. Also, like, do some research on marketing. This is 101 level gak here mate


He’s not wrong though. There was a time that GW just started sending the SC kit when people ordered a Carnosaur. People paid $85 for the Carnosaur, and GW gave them an upgrade to what they ordered, which included two additional units for no additional charge. This...they were free. And most people buying the SCs knew the value saved. ALL people had access to see the value. So yes...free is an appropriate term. So is “everything in the box discounted heavily”. But the insults because you don’t understand what Kan is saying don’t help your case. They make you look foolish. Technically you’re both right and neither is fully wrong.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/07 14:57:55


Post by: stratigo


 timetowaste85 wrote:
stratigo wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Did you pay for the additional products?

No? Then they were free.


“I said sumthin and I are smrt, so thing is right.”

Look up the definition of words. Also, like, do some research on marketing. This is 101 level gak here mate


He’s not wrong though. There was a time that GW just started sending the SC kit when people ordered a Carnosaur. People paid $85 for the Carnosaur, and GW gave them an upgrade to what they ordered, which included two additional units for no additional charge. This...they were free. And most people buying the SCs knew the value saved. ALL people had access to see the value. So yes...free is an appropriate term. So is “everything in the box discounted heavily”. But the insults because you don’t understand what Kan is saying don’t help your case. They make you look foolish. Technically you’re both right and neither is fully wrong.


That isn’t what free means. Start collecting boxes contain no free models. Not a one. You are buying a product. It contains more models than a different similar product. That doesn’t mean start collecting is free. It means that it is a better deal, but that doesn’t also mean it is a good deal. Savvy.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/07 15:08:06


Post by: angel of death 007


 Just Tony wrote:
stratigo wrote:
This whole price rise thing is a bit of a snafu and we really need gw to say something about it


Overpricing isn't a bug as far as GW's plan, it's a feature. They will push prices as high as they can as long as people are willing to spend it.


This is true, i wish the consumers of GW products in the USA, or Austrialia or typically both would do what normal consumers do when prices are too absurd and boycott the company until prices come down. I think the USA accounts for a large enough amount of sales, would be interesting to see how much, but if we boycotted purchasing GW products for a few months or one financial quarter, it would be great to see what came from this....

but this is but a dream as there are too many that would pay the price reguardless of what is costs... so the question I believe needs to be asked is.... What is cost that would make you stop buying GW product outright.


I have asked myself this many times. For a single model kit for me it is $100 USD. So all the kits that have come out that are over that amount I have bought second hand or have 3d printed or got recast. All FW stuff I have been getting recast for awhile because FW prices are rediculous and FW quality sucks recasters can do it just the same. In a way it is almost like buying generic products, i know certain people will not see it this way but at the end of the day why pay double for the same thing when you can get it for half and get the same product? GW themself have created recasters, as GW prices have enabled companies to produce the same product cheaper. If there was no profit to be had by recasters then they wouldn't exist. Between recasters and 3rd party suppilers a larger percentage of my money has been going toward them.

In the past a boycott would not be practical or could not be done large scale. With social media nowadays, a boycott could effectively be done. Would it hurt business yes, could it potentially cause GW to revamp their prices, with enough support yes. At the end of the financial quarter when stockholders would see a signifcant drop GW would need to have answers. Luckily 6th and 7th edition 40k sucked so horribly bad it allowed me to not purchase any GW products over this time and redirect my gaming budget toward other companies.

Will it ever happen, i would have better luck playing the lottery then to get people to quit the GW plastic crack addiction. I would be willing to support any boycott that anyone will post as I feel GW has been taking advantage of customers for years and something should be done.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/07 15:15:25


Post by: Overread


stratigo wrote:
 timetowaste85 wrote:
stratigo wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Did you pay for the additional products?

No? Then they were free.


“I said sumthin and I are smrt, so thing is right.”

Look up the definition of words. Also, like, do some research on marketing. This is 101 level gak here mate


He’s not wrong though. There was a time that GW just started sending the SC kit when people ordered a Carnosaur. People paid $85 for the Carnosaur, and GW gave them an upgrade to what they ordered, which included two additional units for no additional charge. This...they were free. And most people buying the SCs knew the value saved. ALL people had access to see the value. So yes...free is an appropriate term. So is “everything in the box discounted heavily”. But the insults because you don’t understand what Kan is saying don’t help your case. They make you look foolish. Technically you’re both right and neither is fully wrong.


That isn’t what free means. Start collecting boxes contain no free models. Not a one. You are buying a product. It contains more models than a different similar product. That doesn’t mean start collecting is free. It means that it is a better deal, but that doesn’t also mean it is a good deal. Savvy.


It both is and isn't free depending on your point of view.

Saurus Guard 35
Saurus Knights 55
Carnisaur - not sold individually

Start Collecting set 90


Those are the numbers, from the customers perspective the Carnisaur is free because the price of Guard and Knights without buying the start-collecting box, is the same as buying the start collecting box. Therefore if one were purchasing both knights and guard the better deal is the start collecting box because it does give you the better deal, it gives you a free model that you otherwise would not get if you bought the two boxes of troops on their own.


From the perspective of the company its not "free" its simply pricing the three kits as a group rather than on their own. Therefore resulting in the price of the troops outside of the start collecting set, being higher than they might otherwise be to cover for the fact that they are also paying for the cost of the carnisaurs' production and distribution as well.



The customer has no alternative (legal) source of those models. Therefore within their shopping window the carnisaur is "free" because there are other options (from GW) where they can buy the models in the SC without getting the carnisaur.



So yes its not "free" in the strictest of senses of the meaning, but so long as GW offers other purchase options for the other content then free is a perfectly fair casual way to describe getting the carnisaur in the start collecting set.

As for the "value of their gak" that's something we can debate until the end of days and in the end because GW is a luxury product they are free to charge whatever they want.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
angel of death 007 wrote:


Will it ever happen, i would have better luck playing the lottery then to get people to quit the GW plastic crack addiction. I would be willing to support any boycott that anyone will post as I feel GW has been taking advantage of customers for years and something should be done.


The problems with social media however can cause additional issues

1) It's VERY fickle. You might get everyone whipped up into a frenzy on a Friday and by Monday they have moved on. Ergo many internet campaigns fizzle out on their own and often as not the company doing nothing or taking a very "wait and see" approach to their communications during such a time can simply serve to let the thing burn out. What tends to cause it to burn for longer is when a company panics and starts doing anti-consumer daft stuff (or a hotblood staffer/CEO gets on twitter and makes a fool of themselves).

2) It's not unified. Yeah everyone is there, and everyone wants to be a chief. You can very easily wind up with a lot of chiefs, a lot of sub groups and a lot of alternate agendas all competing with each other.

3) Perception of value is not uniform.

4) Perception of value from a customer point of view does not take into account anything but a companies declared "profits" at a most basic level. Ergo they are not going to consider future investment finances; covering overheads; covering emergency savings; bonuses to staff etc... Heck many might even just look at a companies profit before expenses to make the number look bigger. Therefore you can very easily end up with a boycotte that fails to work because it demands the impossible of a company.

Heck lets not forget the record profits GW reported last year allowed them to spend over £9 million building a new factory to improve consumer support of product supply; that's something which had to come out of their profits.


In the end it can be complex and it can be hard to draw a line on where values should be. That isn't defending GW's practics and some of their choices on exchange rates are questionable - then again tey are not the only company making such odd translations of currancy. Ergo it might be hidden costs consumers are unaware of (eg commercial shipping costing more to supplement cheaper consumer shipping fees); taxes; import tarrifs etc.. and that's all before we've got to the amount of "excess profit" at the end of a year that people think is "fair".




GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/07 15:30:33


Post by: Azreal13


SeanDrake wrote:
Munster wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:
Seems a good place to ask but is there a good budget SLA printer?

.

It depends... I'm having fun with an Anycubic Photon S and it does very high quality prints, but many prefer the original Photon due to the better community support (and you can almost modify it to S structure)

The Epax X1 is considered the correct version of the Photon S (shares the operating system with the Photon)

The Mars is ok but has a small community.

Not much out there about the proposed Prusa, but that will likely be the most expensive of them all


Thanks for the advice, so the Mars is ok is it? Because at £220 it is way cheaper than the others and is like 1 months hobby money so I could give it a try.


I'm aiming for the Mars. The Photon is the no brainer answer, its been massively successful, there's a massive community, it isn't too expensive and it performs well. Without having spent a huge amount of time researching, I wrote off the S because apparently a lot of the structure is now plastic instead of metal. That's less of an issue with an SLA over an FDM printer, where flex of any kind can impact significantly on your prints, but nevertheless my instinct is that I'd rather have a steel frame than plastic.

But having seen a few test prints and watched a few videos, I'm sold that the Mars is at least good enough.

But I am looking at it from the perspective of already owning an FDM with a reasonable print volume (Anycubic I3 Mega) so the realtively small print volume of the typical hobbyist level SLAs isn't so much of an issue. If it is going to be your first/only printer, think carefully about what your use is going to be, anything other than minis and the odd bit of scatter is going to be a faff.

Similar money to the Mars will give access to several models of well regarded FDM, so if you're happy to spend the £200 ish it is worth taking a minute and looking at all the angles.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/07 15:52:06


Post by: BrookM


Okaaaaaaaaay people, dial down the hostility please. I've done some cleaning and warnings have been handed out, now stick to the topic and remain polite.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/07 17:51:11


Post by: SeanDrake


 Overread wrote:
I wasn't a fiasco - GW just got lots of orders in before raising the price on the boxed sets when they announced the rise approaching. If anything it likely did their sales a really good turn in generating a load of extra sales even if it put production under increased load stress (which honestly until their new factory comes online appears to be pretty normal for GW at present).


While all that is true it also had some other unintended issues the main one being that while yes it was a nice bump in sales it had the obvious downside of tanking SC sales to the point that there are just starting to increase again.

Turns out most SC’S were bought by existing players and giving them warning to panic buy was a bad idea this combined with some people deciding there not worth it for there army when you have the other army boxes coming out results in really low sales.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/07 18:08:02


Post by: Azreal13


I'm not sure you can exactly call it a "bump" either. Somebody buying something now at a lower price rather than in 3 months because they'd intended to buy it all along doesn't really represent an increase.

I mean, I guess a certain percentage might be purchases that were never intended until the news the price was going up landed, but I can't imagine it's a statistically significant number. Especially when you consider that only a relatively small number of the customer base will have been aware of an impending increase and taken action as a result.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/07 18:40:43


Post by: Overread


Yeah a short term sales bump followed by a short term sales drop that evens out to basically not much shift in volume by the end of the year. It would only have "failed" if they were hoping on making an increase in sales at the higher price point, which basically would never happen. Of course once sales settle down they will likely make increased revenue off those items because of the rise in the set cost - that is at least assuming that the rise isn't eaten up by rising costs elswhere in the company.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/07 21:35:56


Post by: Arbitrator


I think people claiming GW are 'too big to fail' on price hikes need only take a look to Fantasy. What happened there? Well when you end up pretty much requiring x4 Core boxes per unit at £20 each, most people are going to turn away pretty quick. Now with most AoS 5-model boxes costing around £25 that you generally want to maximise to at least 20 for some of the more elite factions, it's like history repeating itself.

Let's also not forget that GW's strategy for years has always been to suck up the pocket money of teenagers. Unless pocket money being given out to kids also rose with inflation, Lil Timmy can no longer put his £6 for a blister pack character or x3 metals a week, but he's looking at about £20 just to add that character.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/07 21:57:28


Post by: Overread


Honestly I think price was a lesser issue for Fantasy in general - it contributed but there were bigger issues considering that the price for armies in that was comparable to 40K.

The real issues were:

a) It didn't scale down well and got progressively worse as you kept scaling it down. A 500 point or less fight was very odd to see and didn't work very well for most armies. So there was less enjoyment potential as you were getting an army up and ready and progressing into the game.

b) GW didn't heavily market smaller scale versions of the game. Rather like how 40K had killteam in the back of the big rule book; what smaller scale battles there were, weren't heavily marketed by GW. So newbies might be unaware of them and it would rely heavily on established players being aware of and informing them and offering games. Fastforward and today Killteam is heavily marketed and its own thing - Skirmish has come and gone a bit (its in white dwarf right now) but AoS is in a different situation and is still getting itself sorted in terms of battletome support.

c) GW ignored it. Yeah model releases slowed, updates did, general market buzz and remembering these were the dark ages when GW didn't do social media, forums or even much advertising. It was White Dwarf or nothing really. With less enthusiasm and attention from GW itself it also started to erode its long term fans, which cuts down on recruitment potential for new gamers.

And there were other things too. Price was an issue, but more so because of the lack of smaller scale game options which put pressure on people having larger armies to really get into the fun stages of the game. So as a result things like burnout and cost got amplified.



AoS today has several smaller game modes (Shadspire, Skirmish and Warcry) and GW advertises them and promotes them. They just released 1K battle rework points to make 1K games better through their annual rules supplement and update document (Generals Handbook). And there is every likelihood that once AoS has most or all armies with Battletomes, we'll see an AoD Skirmish boxed set of releases like they've done with Killteam. That is unless Warcry fills that niche (we don't really know exactly what Warcry is yet).

So suffice to say that today you can do a lot and have a lot of fun with AoS if you've even only got your Shadspire Team.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 08:34:44


Post by: Shas O Ores


new prices are online. ... much more got increased than was on that list


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 08:49:47


Post by: Hanskrampf


Shas O Ores wrote:
new prices are online. ... much more got increased than was on that list

Oh come on...


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 09:01:14


Post by: Albertorius


Is there any kind of comprehensive list anywhere? Because it looks more like an "across the board" thing than anything else...


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 09:09:23


Post by: Chopstick


Yeah all Necromunda gangs and Ambot got a 2$ increase.

Because "yo dawg those basez aRe NoT FrEe!!!!!!111"


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 09:14:26


Post by: Albertorius


Blood Bowl Teams seem to have gone from 25 to 30 euros, too.

Well, that's a good way of reducing output I guess.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 09:37:36


Post by: Shas O Ores


Smaug 380 to 440 Euro... good that I don't play Hobbit/LotR
But it's crazy how expensive the flyers got. Also old character models went from 15 to 20.
And Forgeworld increased prices across the board :
There are even lots of mistakes/not yet implemented increases, e.g. Elder flyer cost as a single unit 50, as an apocalpyse detachment of 3 now 180


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 09:53:15


Post by: Albertorius


Well, that's just peachy. I needed to dial down my purchases anyway.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 09:54:04


Post by: SeanDrake


3 items in basket on FW last night £44 today it’s £50, talk about salt in the wound they even put the lctb stuff up.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 10:36:46


Post by: balmong7


 Arbitrator wrote:
I think people claiming GW are 'too big to fail' on price hikes need only take a look to Fantasy. What happened there? Well when you end up pretty much requiring x4 Core boxes per unit at £20 each, most people are going to turn away pretty quick. Now with most AoS 5-model boxes costing around £25 that you generally want to maximise to at least 20 for some of the more elite factions, it's like history repeating itself.

Let's also not forget that GW's strategy for years has always been to suck up the pocket money of teenagers. Unless pocket money being given out to kids also rose with inflation, Lil Timmy can no longer put his £6 for a blister pack character or x3 metals a week, but he's looking at about £20 just to add that character.


This one hits home for me. I just had to turn down joining an AOS escalation league because I can't afford to buy the models I need to get up to 2000 points by the end of it. Even considering that it's an escalation league.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 10:42:35


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


I'm not sure WHF is such a useful comparison.

I mean, you're absolutely right that it cost a bundle to get into, or to start a new army. Especially if you felt drawn to Gobbos or Skaven.

But, much of the issue there was, again, especially with Gobbos and Skaven, was that many of the models one was buying, building and painting just didn't do [/I]anything[/I] in the game. They were there to look pretty, and rarely got the chance to fight. Especially in 6-7th Ed.

8th did a bit more there, allowing additional ranks to fight. And it worked for stuff like Ogres. If I did a Horde of those, up to three ranks could fight - and that was pretty appealing. Spesh with Ironguts!

AoS and 40k? You're far more likely to actually use the models you've bought - barring a truly disastrous enemy shooting phase!

For clarity, this isn't any kind of 'shush and pay up' sentiment. I ain't gonna tell you how you should feel. But WHF was a unique beast, and the problems it had don't really exist in GW's other offerings.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 10:55:32


Post by: Albertorius


Honestly, I'm not sure that problem is not actually present in current 40k... how many units are there to just die in droves, or to fill requisites? I look at current 40k armies and they're kind of fething big, nowadays.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 11:00:47


Post by: Geifer


SeanDrake wrote:
3 items in basket on FW last night £44 today it’s £50, talk about salt in the wound they even put the lctb stuff up.


I love this.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I'm not sure WHF is such a useful comparison.

I mean, you're absolutely right that it cost a bundle to get into, or to start a new army. Especially if you felt drawn to Gobbos or Skaven.

But, much of the issue there was, again, especially with Gobbos and Skaven, was that many of the models one was buying, building and painting just didn't do [/I]anything[/I] in the game. They were there to look pretty, and rarely got the chance to fight. Especially in 6-7th Ed.

8th did a bit more there, allowing additional ranks to fight. And it worked for stuff like Ogres. If I did a Horde of those, up to three ranks could fight - and that was pretty appealing. Spesh with Ironguts!

AoS and 40k? You're far more likely to actually use the models you've bought - barring a truly disastrous enemy shooting phase!

For clarity, this isn't any kind of 'shush and pay up' sentiment. I ain't gonna tell you how you should feel. But WHF was a unique beast, and the problems it had don't really exist in GW's other offerings.


It's funny. I absolutely agree about the wound counter nature of most of a Fantasy army. I got that feeling a lot myself. Now, I think it actually looked cool to have the regiments decrease in size due to casualties (or increase again in some cases), so there's that. But I couldn't help but think that all the work that went into building and painting those back ranks was wasted because they didn't really do anything. It's why I always preferred the way 40k presented things, and why I like elite armies better than horde armies.

I will say though that modern 40k or Aos doesn't feel much better to me. GW upped the army size for 40k so you buy more models. To keep the game viable everything got deadlier so more stuff just dies. And "stuff just dies" is not my idea of fun and very reminiscent of Fantasy's back ranks to me.

So i have to disagree with the notion that old Fantasy is not a good comparison. The real difference now to back then is, as Overread mentioned, that GW isn't exclusively trying to get everyone to buy gigantic amounts of models for full sized games again and they additionally offer smaller and what they hope are gateway games now.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 11:14:01


Post by: Jidmah


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
AoS and 40k? You're far more likely to actually use the models you've bought - barring a truly disastrous enemy shooting phase!

Just yesterday I dropped 30 GBP on 30 models that do absolutely nothing but generate CP and get shot because my army doesn't function properly otherwise - gretchin, to be precise. They went up by 6 GBP today.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 11:26:42


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Yet they're still fulfilling a function - and can, in a pinch, sit on an objective, making your opponent work slightly harder for it (and ever so slightly harder).

But Night Gobbos Nos 21-60? Yeah. They literally played no point in any battle, ever. 11-20 (assuming one had armed them with Spears) only ever provided 2 pips of Combat Res, for maxing out your Rank Bonus.

So whilst similar wastes of pounds exist in 40k and AoS (there's always something there that just gets annihilated), they are least fulfil some function - even if it's Loyal 32esque CP Tax.

In summation? I think the problem is lesser in games other than WHFB. And how much of a bugbear it might be will depend largely on the Codex chosen, and the army chosen from within said Codex.

For instance, anyone complaining that Loyal 32 went up can probably just do one, as that's entirely self-inflicted


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 11:31:05


Post by: H.B.M.C.


So what else went up? Was it all Forge World?


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 11:33:24


Post by: Hanskrampf


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So what else went up? Was it all Forge World?

No. Ogre characters from 30 to 32,50 Euro, I think normal Ogres and Ironguts went up too, but not sure.
Haven't looked any further.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 11:50:11


Post by: CragHack


Up to 10 euros increase on older FW products, from what it seems.

Realm of Battle boards now 124, used to be 120.
Imperialis Landing Pad - 107, was 100.
Breacher Squad - 48, used to be 45...

LOLOL, it appears new models also got hit. Sanguinius now 105 euros... 105 euros for a single fething miniature, damn it.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 11:50:54


Post by: Theophony


Warhammer Underworlds warbands are all still $30 . Glad I went and bought six of the last 9 I needed yesterday though.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 11:55:40


Post by: Geifer


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Yet they're still fulfilling a function - and can, in a pinch, sit on an objective, making your opponent work slightly harder for it (and ever so slightly harder).

But Night Gobbos Nos 21-60? Yeah. They literally played no point in any battle, ever. 11-20 (assuming one had armed them with Spears) only ever provided 2 pips of Combat Res, for maxing out your Rank Bonus.

So whilst similar wastes of pounds exist in 40k and AoS (there's always something there that just gets annihilated), they are least fulfil some function - even if it's Loyal 32esque CP Tax.


That's just drawing an arbitrary line where use ends and uselessness begins. Those extra gobbos allow you to horde up and get more attacks. Those extra gobbos can provide extra combat resolution bonus. Those extra gobbos increase the size of the unit and thus board control. Those extra gobbos fight if flanked. In less exciting news, those extra gobbos help templates hit more and easier.

You are of course free to attribute more value to some uses than others. If that's how you feel, that's how you feel.

Me, I'm not seeing it. Loyal 32, to go with that example, are a resource generator and while you're bringing them you may as well sit them on an objective or screen something. But do you actually expect them to do anything amazing? Do you specifically buy them because you expect them do anything amazing? In a way I feel better about Fantasy regiments because you look at your models as a single unit, and adding more models adds to the group effort. Those gobbos will always be there when things work out for you. Well, the survivors anyway. Whereas the Loyal 32 exist apart from the units that benefit from the CP they generate. You could buy the Loyal 32 and not set them up and just enjoy the CP benefits on other units that you actually want to play just as much, whether those Guardsmen are there or not.

A better comparison in my mind is one of those few things where 8th ed is actually an improvement over the last edition. Previously you bought your Tactical Squad for the special or heavy weapon and oftentimes the Marines with bolters fulfilled the same role as extra wounds as their Fantasy counterparts. These days you may freely split fire. It's no longer actively detrimental to bring ten Marines in a squad over five (meta concerns aside). You buy an extra Marine, and he gets to fight. You buy two, they both get to fight. That's something 8th ed got right and I'd much rather spend money on those extra Marines than a resource generator. Yet the game is designed to immensely reward the latter, while the former plays very little role in practice.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 12:24:45


Post by: stratigo


Spoiler:

 Overread wrote:
stratigo wrote:
 timetowaste85 wrote:
stratigo wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Did you pay for the additional products?

No? Then they were free.


“I said sumthin and I are smrt, so thing is right.”

Look up the definition of words. Also, like, do some research on marketing. This is 101 level gak here mate


He’s not wrong though. There was a time that GW just started sending the SC kit when people ordered a Carnosaur. People paid $85 for the Carnosaur, and GW gave them an upgrade to what they ordered, which included two additional units for no additional charge. This...they were free. And most people buying the SCs knew the value saved. ALL people had access to see the value. So yes...free is an appropriate term. So is “everything in the box discounted heavily”. But the insults because you don’t understand what Kan is saying don’t help your case. They make you look foolish. Technically you’re both right and neither is fully wrong.


That isn’t what free means. Start collecting boxes contain no free models. Not a one. You are buying a product. It contains more models than a different similar product. That doesn’t mean start collecting is free. It means that it is a better deal, but that doesn’t also mean it is a good deal. Savvy.


It both is and isn't free depending on your point of view.

Saurus Guard 35
Saurus Knights 55
Carnisaur - not sold individually

Start Collecting set 90


Those are the numbers, from the customers perspective the Carnisaur is free because the price of Guard and Knights without buying the start-collecting box, is the same as buying the start collecting box. Therefore if one were purchasing both knights and guard the better deal is the start collecting box because it does give you the better deal, it gives you a free model that you otherwise would not get if you bought the two boxes of troops on their own.


From the perspective of the company its not "free" its simply pricing the three kits as a group rather than on their own. Therefore resulting in the price of the troops outside of the start collecting set, being higher than they might otherwise be to cover for the fact that they are also paying for the cost of the carnisaurs' production and distribution as well.



The customer has no alternative (legal) source of those models. Therefore within their shopping window the carnisaur is "free" because there are other options (from GW) where they can buy the models in the SC without getting the carnisaur.



So yes its not "free" in the strictest of senses of the meaning, but so long as GW offers other purchase options for the other content then free is a perfectly fair casual way to describe getting the carnisaur in the start collecting set.

As for the "value of their gak" that's something we can debate until the end of days and in the end because GW is a luxury product they are free to charge whatever they want.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
angel of death 007 wrote:


Will it ever happen, i would have better luck playing the lottery then to get people to quit the GW plastic crack addiction. I would be willing to support any boycott that anyone will post as I feel GW has been taking advantage of customers for years and something should be done.


The problems with social media however can cause additional issues

1) It's VERY fickle. You might get everyone whipped up into a frenzy on a Friday and by Monday they have moved on. Ergo many internet campaigns fizzle out on their own and often as not the company doing nothing or taking a very "wait and see" approach to their communications during such a time can simply serve to let the thing burn out. What tends to cause it to burn for longer is when a company panics and starts doing anti-consumer daft stuff (or a hotblood staffer/CEO gets on twitter and makes a fool of themselves).

2) It's not unified. Yeah everyone is there, and everyone wants to be a chief. You can very easily wind up with a lot of chiefs, a lot of sub groups and a lot of alternate agendas all competing with each other.

3) Perception of value is not uniform.

4) Perception of value from a customer point of view does not take into account anything but a companies declared "profits" at a most basic level. Ergo they are not going to consider future investment finances; covering overheads; covering emergency savings; bonuses to staff etc... Heck many might even just look at a companies profit before expenses to make the number look bigger. Therefore you can very easily end up with a boycotte that fails to work because it demands the impossible of a company.

Heck lets not forget the record profits GW reported last year allowed them to spend over £9 million building a new factory to improve consumer support of product supply; that's something which had to come out of their profits.


In the end it can be complex and it can be hard to draw a line on where values should be. That isn't defending GW's practics and some of their choices on exchange rates are questionable - then again tey are not the only company making such odd translations of currancy. Ergo it might be hidden costs consumers are unaware of (eg commercial shipping costing more to supplement cheaper consumer shipping fees); taxes; import tarrifs etc.. and that's all before we've got to the amount of "excess profit" at the end of a year that people think is "fair".




The main problem with this "oh its free" discussion is that it is a psychological trick. Pretending you are getting free product, when you are strictly not, is allowing the business to manipulate you into spending money. Yes the kits are all over priced, most people agree. But look at these ones, you get FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! models in it. It's a marketing ploy that doesn't actually mean you are getting a good deal. GW, and other companies that do this, are relying on you seeing the price tag for one product and going "wow that's so high" so that when you see something with a better deal you go "Oh that's so much better, let's buy that" even when you weren't considering buying into any models at all. And that is flat what happens, employees and even the website direct people to start collectings with the concept of you are getting such a good deal, it is essentially free models. But they aren't free, and the deal may or may not actually be good. What's the cost of a kit in development and production verse the profits of the sale verse the operating costs and marketing costs?

The main issue is that we don't actually know the profits GW makes off their kits, verse the expenses of the company. From there you could have a discussion of the ethical dimension of corporations and capitalism as a whole. And that will vary by person. Some people sigh nostalgically for the gilded age and are eagerly awaiting our return to such conditions. Some people want to eat the rich. But I can tell which people have any control of the way things are going.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 12:38:02


Post by: Astmeister


Lord of Change - 110 Euro
Trygon - 60 Euro (Yikes!)


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 13:35:43


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


 Geifer wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Yet they're still fulfilling a function - and can, in a pinch, sit on an objective, making your opponent work slightly harder for it (and ever so slightly harder).

But Night Gobbos Nos 21-60? Yeah. They literally played no point in any battle, ever. 11-20 (assuming one had armed them with Spears) only ever provided 2 pips of Combat Res, for maxing out your Rank Bonus.

So whilst similar wastes of pounds exist in 40k and AoS (there's always something there that just gets annihilated), they are least fulfil some function - even if it's Loyal 32esque CP Tax.


That's just drawing an arbitrary line where use ends and uselessness begins. Those extra gobbos allow you to horde up and get more attacks. Those extra gobbos can provide extra combat resolution bonus. Those extra gobbos increase the size of the unit and thus board control. Those extra gobbos fight if flanked. In less exciting news, those extra gobbos help templates hit more and easier.

You are of course free to attribute more value to some uses than others. If that's how you feel, that's how you feel.

Me, I'm not seeing it. Loyal 32, to go with that example, are a resource generator and while you're bringing them you may as well sit them on an objective or screen something. But do you actually expect them to do anything amazing? Do you specifically buy them because you expect them do anything amazing? In a way I feel better about Fantasy regiments because you look at your models as a single unit, and adding more models adds to the group effort. Those gobbos will always be there when things work out for you. Well, the survivors anyway. Whereas the Loyal 32 exist apart from the units that benefit from the CP they generate. You could buy the Loyal 32 and not set them up and just enjoy the CP benefits on other units that you actually want to play just as much, whether those Guardsmen are there or not.

A better comparison in my mind is one of those few things where 8th ed is actually an improvement over the last edition. Previously you bought your Tactical Squad for the special or heavy weapon and oftentimes the Marines with bolters fulfilled the same role as extra wounds as their Fantasy counterparts. These days you may freely split fire. It's no longer actively detrimental to bring ten Marines in a squad over five (meta concerns aside). You buy an extra Marine, and he gets to fight. You buy two, they both get to fight. That's something 8th ed got right and I'd much rather spend money on those extra Marines than a resource generator. Yet the game is designed to immensely reward the latter, while the former plays very little role in practice.


I think you've hit the point I was trying to make.

Extra ranks of Gobbos were necessary to keep a Mob functional beyond the first couple of turns. Other than that, you were paying money for literally nothing.

Loyal 32 or 30 Grots? They can at least objective camp, and bring lots of extra CPs to the table for the minimum points outlay. So whilst nobody is saying they're a bargain, they still fulfil a function over and beyond Additional Gobbos.

Same with Skaven and Skellingtons to a certain degree. Both needed larger than average units to Do What They Do in terms of not going splatted in a single combat (neither being much cop in a fight).

And that was a central flaw in WHFB, which they never successfully tackled. The first was to reduce the Panic Zone, especially due to the death of the General. Around 5th Ed (I think, may have been 6th?) the rule changed that it was an army wide panic test.

The other was to create the Unshakeable rule (or whatever it was called. Memory fades!) which said if I had more ranks, any break tests were taken without modifiers. But again, those extra models never got cheaper - and rarely properly partook in the battle.

So whilst yes, there are instances in 40k and AoS of 'tax' units and models, the problem is nowhere near as pronounced, or inherent, as it was in WHFB.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 14:01:12


Post by: Irbis


 Geifer wrote:
Me, I'm not seeing it. Loyal 32, to go with that example, are a resource generator and while you're bringing them you may as well sit them on an objective or screen something. But do you actually expect them to do anything amazing? Do you specifically buy them because you expect them do anything amazing? In a way I feel better about Fantasy regiments because you look at your models as a single unit, and adding more models adds to the group effort. Those gobbos will always be there when things work out for you. Well, the survivors anyway. Whereas the Loyal 32 exist apart from the units that benefit from the CP they generate. You could buy the Loyal 32 and not set them up and just enjoy the CP benefits on other units that you actually want to play just as much, whether those Guardsmen are there or not.

A better comparison in my mind is one of those few things where 8th ed is actually an improvement over the last edition. Previously you bought your Tactical Squad for the special or heavy weapon and oftentimes the Marines with bolters fulfilled the same role as extra wounds as their Fantasy counterparts. These days you may freely split fire. It's no longer actively detrimental to bring ten Marines in a squad over five (meta concerns aside). You buy an extra Marine, and he gets to fight. You buy two, they both get to fight. That's something 8th ed got right and I'd much rather spend money on those extra Marines than a resource generator. Yet the game is designed to immensely reward the latter, while the former plays very little role in practice.

You realize you can generate CPs with marines, too? Yes, yes, I know the mob will say there is only one, true way of generating them (and anyone who doesn't use it is a CAAC loser), but if you want to put more marines on table and generate CP (spoiler alert) the game will reward you too...


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 14:57:25


Post by: ArcaneHorror


Meanwhile, at Ebay headquarters:



GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 16:23:12


Post by: Da Boss


That is unfortunate. Some of these things were already very difficult to justify given the price and now they are pricier. Some stuff like the bundles is still good value, but I was going back and forth on getting the Greater Demons, and I think it is really hard to justify the cost. I could get a nintendo switch with Breath of the Wild for less money.

At least they are letting people know somewhat in advance I suppose. They don't have to do that.

The argument about GW price rises is as old as GW, and we have had a brief period of better value with certain kits that brought me back. If it goes back to the poor value of the end of the Kirby era, I will just move on to other stuff.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 16:32:22


Post by: Albertorius


 Da Boss wrote:
At least they are letting people know somewhat in advance I suppose. They don't have to do that.

As far as I know, this time they haven't. I haven't seen any kind of official statement regarding the price increases.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 16:35:42


Post by: Overread


Yeah we only got a heads up because some stores let slip the price rise details ahead of the rise. Otherwise this was totally out of the blue without any warning from GW themselves to the customers. Heck I'd wager the vast majority were taken fully unaware by this price rise and might not even notice until they next come to buy something.

Also as a good few were small increases, many might not spot them as increases for a while. £18 to £20 on Tyranid Gaunts is still significant, but you can easily forget the price if you've not bought any for a while - esp when it gets confusing if you buy from 3rd parties and thus pay under the "going rate".


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 16:45:11


Post by: totalfailure


Indeed, this only came out because retailers who got a heads up from GW spilled the details to the usual news/gossip sites. Otherwise, you just would have walked into the store or got onto the websites, and found prices higher today.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 16:49:03


Post by: Hulksmash


I did order some direct only stuff from them on friday. Waiting for it to finish processing...Since it was direct only it saved me $20 to order my 4 boxes of ungor now


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 17:01:16


Post by: Albertorius


Oh, fun. They have changed the prices of all the regular MESBG from €32,50 to €34. Because obviously those were oh so very old that they needed it.

FFS THEY JUST REISSUED THE FETHING BOXES


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 17:12:00


Post by: Talizvar


Yep, every once and a while you got to refresh the package art "bling".
In a very real sense, the boxes are getting more expensive than the product materials inside.
I am still pounding through my backlog of miniatures so I can weather the storm for a bit.
I wonder if they will be tracking any downturn to sales after the increase?


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 17:29:56


Post by: Dimrill


Dammit, I knew I should've ordered those Forgey Woild Night Lord transfers at the weekend. They've gone from £16 to £20. 25% more. That's... obscene.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 17:40:53


Post by: Da Boss


My bad, wow. This is a pretty big increase with no warning. Well, they don't have to and maybe they got a lot of backlash for publicising the last one. People never want this stuff to be pointed out.

Interesting. Seems like they are trying to find the price ceiling again. Well, I got plenty to paint.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 17:55:30


Post by: MechaEmperor7000


I've been silently following this since I heard about it a week ago (and have been generally trolling the forums for a bit).

Really saddens me this happened. GW was doing so good, and now this. Some of the price hikes actually priced my friend out of the game, who was on the fence before but the higher prices of some items made him decide it's not worth it to jump in. Also I've been defending Rountree lately but this is probably the last straw for me. We all know that regardless of any "price reports" GW puts out, the plastic minis ultimately do not cost anywhere near the price they're asking for, and even if the british pound took a dive, they likely could have swallowed the cost and then some.

Meh. Back into my rock I go.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 18:07:37


Post by: SeanDrake


Say what you will about recasters but they have a sense of humour. I just got an email saying "good news" were not putting out prices up and best of all we were 55% cheaper before now were 72% cheaper that's how much we love you.


Also I have said it before last time I interviewed at head office many years ago the sales manager told us that nothing is sold in a GW store that doesn't have at least a 75% margin and I doubt that policy has changed.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 19:35:09


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


The new prices certainly reaffirm my desire to stick to skirmish scale games rather than mass battles.

Hopefully Warcry strikes a fair balance between content, quantity, quality, and minimal need for multiple boxes.

Outside of a massive Seraphon upgrade or subfaction rollout, it's going to take something truly surprising otherwise to get more cash out of me going forward I'm afraid.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 19:50:42


Post by: Eldarsif


Unhappy to see that the Phoenix Lords went from 10.25 to 15 pounds overnight. That is a considerable increase. Wraithknight, a relatively newish kit, went up 15 pounds.

What I find most ridiculous is the 3 pound increase on the FW character series. They were already quite expensive to begin with.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 19:56:46


Post by: Oguhmek


This definitely puts a dampener on my enthusiasm for Apocalypse. Terrible timing.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 20:12:07


Post by: gorgon


 Oguhmek wrote:
This definitely puts a dampener on my enthusiasm for Apocalypse. Terrible timing.


Depends on your perspective. I hazard to guess that the unveiling of contrast paints, apocalypse release, and core unit price hikes are connected and will be very good for GW's bottom line.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 20:57:18


Post by: stratigo


 gorgon wrote:
 Oguhmek wrote:
This definitely puts a dampener on my enthusiasm for Apocalypse. Terrible timing.


Depends on your perspective. I hazard to guess that the unveiling of contrast paints, apocalypse release, and core unit price hikes are connected and will be very good for GW's bottom line.


This is the opposite of how things work.

There's a reason they offered a bunch of steep discount bundles along with apoc. It is because you make more money prodding people to buy it with offers of DEALS DEALS DEALS! compared to the price of the product without the deals. Upping the prices immediately after apoc is a very bad look for those kits, and only works in making bundles even more psychologically appealing, but i doubt that makes up the loss of sales a price hike entailed. It takes time for people to forget this sort of gak, you should raise prices between major releases, not just after one. And in the era of the internet, you aren't gonna get away with sneak hiking the prices either.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 21:36:06


Post by: totalfailure


 gorgon wrote:


This is the opposite of how things work.

There's a reason they offered a bunch of steep discount bundles along with apoc. It is because you make more money prodding people to buy it with offers of DEALS DEALS DEALS! compared to the price of the product without the deals. Upping the prices immediately after apoc is a very bad look for those kits, and only works in making bundles even more psychologically appealing, but i doubt that makes up the loss of sales a price hike entailed. It takes time for people to forget this sort of gak, you should raise prices between major releases, not just after one. And in the era of the internet, you aren't gonna get away with sneak hiking the prices either.


Disagree with just about everything you wrote. Every time GW raises prices, which has been FREQUENTLY, people get on and complain about them and tell us how they’re done and have been priced out. Yet somehow, despite all the internet blather, GW stays in business. Why? Because despite the complaining MOST PEOPLE KEEP BUYING ANYWAY! And GW knows this! Sure, they may lose some customers, but the higher prices paid by the vast majority of old and new customers who keep buying MORE than offsets it. History is greatly on my side if you don’t believe that. ‘Whales’ keep GW in business. Some guy complaining on the internet that hasn’t bought anything anyway since third edition 40K is irrelevant.

And in the modern era of gaming, which can be considered both a golden and dark age, there really is no such thing as ‘time in between major releases’. GW, and many other companies, it must be noted, are flooding the market with releases pretty much every week. Some weeks may be ‘bigger’ than others, but in the churn and burn game market of 2019, shoving out mountains of product is the business plan most places. When was the last week GW did not release SOMETHING? That doesn’t happen often. I bet you can’t name many weeks that has happened. And don’t say I’m some kind of GW defender based on this; their prices are too high in my opinion, even if the model quality is usually very high. The only way it will change is if people stop buying. And so far, the last 30 years, the score in this game prices are too high is GW - 80000000, internet complainers that this time they’ve gone too far - 0. And there is NO reason to believe this price increase will be any different from the many that have preceded it.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 22:15:11


Post by: SamusDrake


 Eldarsif wrote:
Unhappy to see that the Phoenix Lords went from 10.25 to 15 pounds overnight. That is a considerable increase.


Especially when they are model designs from as far back as 1998. For an £4.75 increase I think its time for a long, overdue updated plastic kit...


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 22:38:41


Post by: totalfailure


Wrong thread. Sorry.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 23:17:06


Post by: Eldarsif


SamusDrake wrote:
 Eldarsif wrote:
Unhappy to see that the Phoenix Lords went from 10.25 to 15 pounds overnight. That is a considerable increase.


Especially when they are model designs from as far back as 1998. For an £4.75 increase I think its time for a long, overdue updated plastic kit...


Yep, a 50% increase on a model that is close to the legal age of drinking and marrying.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/08 23:32:19


Post by: TBD


Blood Bowl teams went from €25 to €30.

That is pretty bad Imo.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/09 00:29:41


Post by: bullyboy


Phoenix Lords are antiques now, hence the price hike.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/09 01:52:05


Post by: Elbows


Not in finecast. They're antiques that no one wants That's like an antique Pontiac Aztek...


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/09 06:09:37


Post by: ArcaneHorror


Looks like the standalone Death Guard elite units got bumped five dollars.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/09 07:12:32


Post by: SeanDrake


 totalfailure wrote:
 gorgon wrote:


This is the opposite of how things work.

There's a reason they offered a bunch of steep discount bundles along with apoc. It is because you make more money prodding people to buy it with offers of DEALS DEALS DEALS! compared to the price of the product without the deals. Upping the prices immediately after apoc is a very bad look for those kits, and only works in making bundles even more psychologically appealing, but i doubt that makes up the loss of sales a price hike entailed. It takes time for people to forget this sort of gak, you should raise prices between major releases, not just after one. And in the era of the internet, you aren't gonna get away with sneak hiking the prices either.


Disagree with just about everything you wrote. Every time GW raises prices, which has been FREQUENTLY, people get on and complain about them and tell us how they’re done and have been priced out. Yet somehow, despite all the internet blather, GW stays in business. Why? Because despite the complaining MOST PEOPLE KEEP BUYING ANYWAY! And GW knows this! Sure, they may lose some customers, but the higher prices paid by the vast majority of old and new customers who keep buying MORE than offsets it. History is greatly on my side if you don’t believe that. ‘Whales’ keep GW in business. Some guy complaining on the internet that hasn’t bought anything anyway since third edition 40K is irrelevant.

And in the modern era of gaming, which can be considered both a golden and dark age, there really is no such thing as ‘time in between major releases’. GW, and many other companies, it must be noted, are flooding the market with releases pretty much every week. Some weeks may be ‘bigger’ than others, but in the churn and burn game market of 2019, shoving out mountains of product is the business plan most places. When was the last week GW did not release SOMETHING? That doesn’t happen often. I bet you can’t name many weeks that has happened. And don’t say I’m some kind of GW defender based on this; their prices are too high in my opinion, even if the model quality is usually very high. The only way it will change is if people stop buying. And so far, the last 30 years, the score in this game prices are too high is GW - 80000000, internet complainers that this time they’ve gone too far - 0. And there is NO reason to believe this price increase will be any different from the many that have preceded it.


Yeah but none if that is exactly right either, yes during the last period of big price hikes they did not go bust but they screwed they sales numbers into the ground because after a price hike people did leave and so to keep profits up/the same they increased prices which caused people to leave and for them to need to increase prices, that’s why a lot of Kirby’s critics said he had put GW into a death spiral.

However luckily for GW the dark lord got the boot before the problem became terminal and then GW got a FB page and cracked a few jokes and everyone flocked back to pay the same high prices. So now sales are at a record high and GW know exactly how many sales they lose from a price increase from experience so they must have decided that a 17% increase will make them more than they will lose in volume, if your cynical they could well have everything planned to attempt to take the prices right up to the tipping point they have calculated.

I would guess on another full range 17-20% rise next year and probably the year after as well by then they will have shed the cheapskates and free loaders and can get back to being luxury goods


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/09 07:49:02


Post by: Shas O Ores


 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Looks like the standalone Death Guard elite units got bumped five dollars.


Honestly 5 dollars appairs to be nice. I'm surpriced that they even increased the price for brand new products like STE Evocators from 40 to 45 Euro. Or this Fireslayer Dragon from 65 to 80. And the Tau got struck hard too, Riptide from 65 to 85 Euros, that's an 30% increase.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/09 07:51:36


Post by: TedNugent


Pricing me out of the hobby without a doubt.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/09 07:51:50


Post by: Jidmah


Death Guard elite units are single plague marines with fancy gear.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/09 08:00:18


Post by: Chopstick


Expect every new 2 sprue multi part kit in the coming year will be 60US$ from now on. If they keep this price I simply won't buy or won't be able to keep up buying more than 1 kit across multiple game lol, my budget allowance is only 80-100 monthly.

Also someone please inform GW that their blood bowl troll is a character on 2 sprue and is currently listing at TOO LOW price, pump it to 40$ please, lol.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/09 11:31:46


Post by: Cronch


Seems like honeymoon is over. They spent three years convincing everyone they aren't the bad guys anymore, and decided they can now reap benefits of it by going back to their old game of pricing.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/09 11:58:15


Post by: tneva82


Only thing that improved past years was theirpr department anyway.

It's simple. Either price is acceptable to you and you pay or not and you don't.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/09 12:35:39


Post by: Eldarsif


I am glad I have a ton of the stuff I already have with only a missing unit here and there. I'll probably end up buying less from now on after this price hike and just focus on painting what I already have.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/09 12:39:09


Post by: Overread


 Eldarsif wrote:
I am glad I have a ton of the stuff I already have with only a missing unit here and there. I'll probably end up buying less from now on after this price hike and just focus on painting what I already have.


In fairness this is the kind of reply I see a lot with regard to price rises. Ergo people who already have tonnes of models and stuff who basically find their buying eases off in the combo of the prices going up, but also in having a large backlog to finish already. Ergo there's already some pressure to "not buy" stuff and the price rise just tips it over. It's likely healthy for that segment of the market because it helps slow down their unfinished piles. that can remove a lot of inhibitions to playing and encourage more gaming which means more games for more customers and thus more chance to get new gamers buying more for GW.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/09 12:50:45


Post by: stratigo


 Overread wrote:
 Eldarsif wrote:
I am glad I have a ton of the stuff I already have with only a missing unit here and there. I'll probably end up buying less from now on after this price hike and just focus on painting what I already have.


In fairness this is the kind of reply I see a lot with regard to price rises. Ergo people who already have tonnes of models and stuff who basically find their buying eases off in the combo of the prices going up, but also in having a large backlog to finish already. Ergo there's already some pressure to "not buy" stuff and the price rise just tips it over. It's likely healthy for that segment of the market because it helps slow down their unfinished piles. that can remove a lot of inhibitions to playing and encourage more gaming which means more games for more customers and thus more chance to get new gamers buying more for GW.


New gamers aren't gonna be enticed by the pricing of models in the least.

The price raises are so sweeping and drastic that I'm convinced its a ploy to drive people away from single kits and into buying bundles


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/09 13:07:00


Post by: Eldarsif


New gamers aren't gonna be enticed by the pricing of models in the least.

The price raises are so sweeping and drastic that I'm convinced its a ploy to drive people away from single kits and into buying bundles


Yep, it is going to hard to get people invested in the game when the entry point has been increased. I know this will affect my local group as we've been trying to cross-pollinate between 40k and AoS and price increases are going to discourage people from going outside of their game.

I am also just going to focus on buying the bundles from now on unless I feel like I need some competitive edge all of a sudden in my existing stuff.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/09 13:37:46


Post by: Albino Squirrel


"if your cynical they could well have everything planned to attempt to take the prices right up to the tipping point they have calculated"

Why would that be cynical? That's how every business works. Of course they are going to attempt to set prices where they think they will maximize profit. That's what they are supposed to do.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/09 13:52:43


Post by: Overread


stratigo wrote:
 Overread wrote:
 Eldarsif wrote:
I am glad I have a ton of the stuff I already have with only a missing unit here and there. I'll probably end up buying less from now on after this price hike and just focus on painting what I already have.


In fairness this is the kind of reply I see a lot with regard to price rises. Ergo people who already have tonnes of models and stuff who basically find their buying eases off in the combo of the prices going up, but also in having a large backlog to finish already. Ergo there's already some pressure to "not buy" stuff and the price rise just tips it over. It's likely healthy for that segment of the market because it helps slow down their unfinished piles. that can remove a lot of inhibitions to playing and encourage more gaming which means more games for more customers and thus more chance to get new gamers buying more for GW.


New gamers aren't gonna be enticed by the pricing of models in the least.

The price raises are so sweeping and drastic that I'm convinced its a ploy to drive people away from single kits and into buying bundles


I never said prices were going to encourage customers directly, I said gamers gaming were more likely to attract new customers

Basically those who are in the door and building/growing armies will hate price rises but are more likely to soak the increase because they are still excited for the game, the social group and the sculpts. It's those at the other end, who already have 3K or so of models and who have bought more than they've built recently who are more likely to rein in their buying. Of course for GW that isn't totally a good thing as many of that segment can be big long term customers; but in general they are the ones more likely to fall out of buying. Ergo the were already limiting their buying and the price rise just tips them over the edge.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/09 13:59:17


Post by: gorgon


 totalfailure wrote:


This is the opposite of how things work.

There's a reason they offered a bunch of steep discount bundles along with apoc. It is because you make more money prodding people to buy it with offers of DEALS DEALS DEALS! compared to the price of the product without the deals. Upping the prices immediately after apoc is a very bad look for those kits, and only works in making bundles even more psychologically appealing, but i doubt that makes up the loss of sales a price hike entailed. It takes time for people to forget this sort of gak, you should raise prices between major releases, not just after one. And in the era of the internet, you aren't gonna get away with sneak hiking the prices either.


Disagree with just about everything you wrote. Every time GW raises prices, which has been FREQUENTLY, people get on and complain about them and tell us how they’re done and have been priced out. Yet somehow, despite all the internet blather, GW stays in business. Why? Because despite the complaining MOST PEOPLE KEEP BUYING ANYWAY! And GW knows this! Sure, they may lose some customers, but the higher prices paid by the vast majority of old and new customers who keep buying MORE than offsets it. History is greatly on my side if you don’t believe that. ‘Whales’ keep GW in business. Some guy complaining on the internet that hasn’t bought anything anyway since third edition 40K is irrelevant.

And in the modern era of gaming, which can be considered both a golden and dark age, there really is no such thing as ‘time in between major releases’. GW, and many other companies, it must be noted, are flooding the market with releases pretty much every week. Some weeks may be ‘bigger’ than others, but in the churn and burn game market of 2019, shoving out mountains of product is the business plan most places. When was the last week GW did not release SOMETHING? That doesn’t happen often. I bet you can’t name many weeks that has happened. And don’t say I’m some kind of GW defender based on this; their prices are too high in my opinion, even if the model quality is usually very high. The only way it will change is if people stop buying. And so far, the last 30 years, the score in this game prices are too high is GW - 80000000, internet complainers that this time they’ve gone too far - 0. And there is NO reason to believe this price increase will be any different from the many that have preceded it.


I agree -- note that the quote wasn't from me.

The reaction here could be straight out of rec.games.miniatures.warhammer during the mid-90s. Hell, I remember being surprised by an $8 price tag for a blister of Aspect Warriors around 1990. It was probably twice what I would have paid from any other manufacturer at the time. Their prices have always been high, but people always like to think that their experiences are unique and new.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/09 14:06:28


Post by: stratigo


 Albino Squirrel wrote:
"if your cynical they could well have everything planned to attempt to take the prices right up to the tipping point they have calculated"

Why would that be cynical? That's how every business works. Of course they are going to attempt to set prices where they think they will maximize profit. That's what they are supposed to do.


Is this okay though? I mean, companies can maximize profit by breaking laws and bribing officials to look the other way. Where do you draw the line of "Maximize every cent"

And, again, companies are self destructive because all the incentives are organized for short term profit now for maximum shareholder return that must increase every year. So companies don't invest in sustainable profit. They chase bubbles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 gorgon wrote:
 totalfailure wrote:


This is the opposite of how things work.

There's a reason they offered a bunch of steep discount bundles along with apoc. It is because you make more money prodding people to buy it with offers of DEALS DEALS DEALS! compared to the price of the product without the deals. Upping the prices immediately after apoc is a very bad look for those kits, and only works in making bundles even more psychologically appealing, but i doubt that makes up the loss of sales a price hike entailed. It takes time for people to forget this sort of gak, you should raise prices between major releases, not just after one. And in the era of the internet, you aren't gonna get away with sneak hiking the prices either.


Disagree with just about everything you wrote. Every time GW raises prices, which has been FREQUENTLY, people get on and complain about them and tell us how they’re done and have been priced out. Yet somehow, despite all the internet blather, GW stays in business. Why? Because despite the complaining MOST PEOPLE KEEP BUYING ANYWAY! And GW knows this! Sure, they may lose some customers, but the higher prices paid by the vast majority of old and new customers who keep buying MORE than offsets it. History is greatly on my side if you don’t believe that. ‘Whales’ keep GW in business. Some guy complaining on the internet that hasn’t bought anything anyway since third edition 40K is irrelevant.

And in the modern era of gaming, which can be considered both a golden and dark age, there really is no such thing as ‘time in between major releases’. GW, and many other companies, it must be noted, are flooding the market with releases pretty much every week. Some weeks may be ‘bigger’ than others, but in the churn and burn game market of 2019, shoving out mountains of product is the business plan most places. When was the last week GW did not release SOMETHING? That doesn’t happen often. I bet you can’t name many weeks that has happened. And don’t say I’m some kind of GW defender based on this; their prices are too high in my opinion, even if the model quality is usually very high. The only way it will change is if people stop buying. And so far, the last 30 years, the score in this game prices are too high is GW - 80000000, internet complainers that this time they’ve gone too far - 0. And there is NO reason to believe this price increase will be any different from the many that have preceded it.


I agree -- note that the quote wasn't from me.

The reaction here could be straight out of rec.games.miniatures.warhammer during the mid-90s. Hell, I remember being surprised by an $8 price tag for a blister of Aspect Warriors around 1990. It was probably twice what I would have paid from any other manufacturer at the time. Their prices have always been high, but people always like to think that their experiences are unique and new.


This is pretending that GW is immune to market trends and has always been on an upward incline. They aren't, and they have suffered as a company before. But, here's a thing, big companies, and GW is fairly big, It's not a small business, as those are actually legally defined, are quite resilient, and so they can eat a few bad years, and survive, often by farming out ownership and shares of the company (it is why we got kirby in the first place). There's a level of inertia in every corporation, it can take a decade or more of mismanagement to kill a company of any appreciable size. But GW suffered for a few years, it has not always had the glorious resurgence of the modern day. And it can suffer again in the future.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/09 14:20:59


Post by: Albino Squirrel


You're asking if it is okay for companies to choose what price they sell their products at? Uh, of course it is. That's how it works.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/09 14:31:15


Post by: stratigo


 Albino Squirrel wrote:
You're asking if it is okay for companies to choose what price they sell their products at? Uh, of course it is. That's how it works.


Are you sure? If GW suddenly decided every kit cost 1000 pounds or dollars or euros and the company quickly went out of business, would this have been an okay decision?


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/09 14:35:27


Post by: Overread


stratigo wrote:
 Albino Squirrel wrote:
You're asking if it is okay for companies to choose what price they sell their products at? Uh, of course it is. That's how it works.


Are you sure? If GW suddenly decided every kit cost 1000 pounds or dollars or euros and the company quickly went out of business, would this have been an okay decision?


It's ok in terms that GW is allowed to charge whatever they want for their kits; its a luxury product and thus not regulated/monitored by governments in that way. So yeah if they want to charge £1000 per box they can do so.

However its not ok in terms of consumer value; its not ok in terms of health of the company nor the game and such a choice would likely see their sales collapse. However one would hope that such a choice would see a loss of faith in the management and internal systems/major shareholders bring pressure to avoid such an outcome occurring.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/09 14:52:02


Post by: Eldarsif


Personally I like the hypothesis that GW would prefer to sell you bundles instead of standalone models. I know that for myself I have been buying more of the bundles for the past year than single models unless I am going for specific gaps in my collection.

Focusing more on bundles means GW can control their production to aim for those bundles instead of meeting a demand on single kits that have forced them to put some on DO.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/09 14:58:46


Post by: Azreal13


This is pretending that GW is immune to market trends and has always been on an upward incline.


In as much as any company can be, these days they are, and have been for some time.

They mishandled things for years and were still posting a profit. Their demand seems to be quite ineleastic.

Which is what makes all the "I'm out" posts so laughable, clearly the percentage of people who actually follow through is tiny, when even when the game was in the worst state I'd ever seen it they were still earning money. All the price rises actually mean in reality is that GW are going to have to spend less money on product to get their entire hobby budget each month.

If people want to make a difference, don't just not buy GW (which is daft anyway, they sometimes make the best, and often the most accessible, stuff on the market, don't cut your nose off to spite your face) but spend your hobby budget one month on a starter or two small factions for another, non-GW, game (so you can teach and recruit) and explore the hobby, rather than the hhhobby.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/09 16:06:24


Post by: VictorVonTzeentch


 Overread wrote:

its a luxury product .


Then they should be taxed as one, but they arent.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/09 16:14:47


Post by: Cronch



They mishandled things for years and were still posting a profit. Their demand seems to be quite ineleastic.

They booted the long-time CEO from the position because of this attitude, because it was hurting the company. Then they somewhat toned down the price gouging (see releasing 10-size Stormcast boxes soon after, at discounted prices compared to buying 2x5, no new kits being quite as insane as the price for Blood Knights or Witch Elves) and offered discounted entry point in shape of Start Collecting.

I can only speak for my locale of course, but at this point a SC! box is more than a new Switch game, which is just silly.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/09 16:39:56


Post by: Albertorius


Oh, I don't think I'm out, but this decision has soured me a bit. So I'll probably be more selective from now on, at least for a while and certainly over anything they might have made more expensive.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/09 17:01:26


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


Makes me wonder if we'll see more third party companies try to pick up any slack that GW puts out.

Prices go too high then more boutique stuff might seem more palatable.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/09 17:41:47


Post by: Azreal13


Cronch wrote:

They mishandled things for years and were still posting a profit. Their demand seems to be quite ineleastic.

They booted the long-time CEO from the position because of this attitude, because it was hurting the company.


No they didn't.

Kirby retired (he was in his 60s, so no real suspicion it was PR spin,) stayed on in a senior non-executive capacity and is still, afaik, a major private shareholder.

While there are certainly things that have happened under Rountree that have been positive, I don't think you can overlook the fact that he was a senior figure under Kirby, and also that the departure of Alan Merret was massively impactful as well.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/09 18:10:25


Post by: Kirasu


It is getting fairly difficult to convince new people to try 40k when there are other games out there with relatively free rules, better testing and their vision tends to be “make a good game for gamers” rather than a good game for their share price.

Right now the matched play rules have 29 pages of FAQ and something like 27 pages of actual rules. There are a large amount of rules either spread out between books like chapter approved or you cant even download or buy anymore (assassin book for example), and prices for models that are a decade old keep going up (when real adjusted for inflation income has actually gone down over decades for the average american). The army I play at events is getting close to 1000$ without factoring in time or money to paint or assemble.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/09 18:42:42


Post by: Da Boss


The disorganised nature of the game and the need to get so many books to play is a major reason why I have not gotten back into 8th edition despite having several fully painted armies.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/09 18:45:03


Post by: Saturmorn Carvilli


I cut a few things on my wish list such as a Harlequin Kill Team, a few more grots because gretchin are cool and a Riptide I just wanted to paint up. Things I thought would be kinda neat to have but wouldn't see a lot/any game time. But the things left on the list (mostly Kill Team Elites units) I do still want to pick up will probably still make GW more money overall with the price increase. So I guess well played GW.

I am mostly relieved that I completely most of the Kill Teams I wanted before in the price increase. And technically my new Primaris army was never affected and should be pretty much done after the Primaris Lieutenant Daily video which fits the SpecOps feel of my army. Like others have said, I got a big pile of stuff to paint anyways, so suspending my purchases only allows me to not be incredibly back logged. I still have like 4-5 Kill Teams I don't have painted to high enough quality that I am willing to field them.

Kill Team is still my go to miniatures game. I don't know if the prices are really going to affect brand new players. On the one had, kill teams can still be bought for $60 US or less. At the same time, Elites has put some pressure on players getting more than 1 or 2 boxes of models depending on the faction. I think some players (mostly teenagers/under drinking age) could barely afford the modest buy-in before which reality was a little out of their budget, but they really like 40k lore and Kill Team would be the only way to play a 40k tabletop game.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/09 18:48:49


Post by: Stormonu


All I can say is that not only have I made my last GW purchase, but others who ask me about GW product will be told to stay away because of expense and shoddy rule design.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/09 19:06:58


Post by: Cronch


 Stormonu wrote:
All I can say is that not only have I made my last GW purchase, but others who ask me about GW product will be told to stay away because of expense and shoddy rule design.

Did the shoddy design not bother you before this price rise?
I'm just curious, cause it'd seem to me like a much bigger gripe than price.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/09 20:31:00


Post by: Stormonu


Cronch wrote:
 Stormonu wrote:
All I can say is that not only have I made my last GW purchase, but others who ask me about GW product will be told to stay away because of expense and shoddy rule design.

Did the shoddy design not bother you before this price rise?
I'm just curious, cause it'd seem to me like a much bigger gripe than price.


It had, I had been working on my own version for some time, and I’ve been playing far more D&D and Destiny 2 than 40K. Overall, I’d been around to collect the models, the game (Because of the poor design) has only ever been something I do every so often to remind myself why I don’t play regularly.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/09 22:09:52


Post by: Not Online!!!


 Stormonu wrote:
Cronch wrote:
 Stormonu wrote:
All I can say is that not only have I made my last GW purchase, but others who ask me about GW product will be told to stay away because of expense and shoddy rule design.

Did the shoddy design not bother you before this price rise?
I'm just curious, cause it'd seem to me like a much bigger gripe than price.


It had, I had been working on my own version for some time, and I’ve been playing far more D&D and Destiny 2 than 40K. Overall, I’d been around to collect the models, the game (Because of the poor design) has only ever been something I do every so often to remind myself why I don’t play regularly.


House rules and a small group community help if propperly maintained.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/09 22:16:36


Post by: ArcaneHorror


Jidmah wrote:Death Guard elite units are single plague marines with fancy gear.


The champion and the icon bearer, yes, but units like the biologus putrifier, tallyman, and plague surgeon all have very unique abilities.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/10 00:23:23


Post by: Cothonian


 Stormonu wrote:
Cronch wrote:
 Stormonu wrote:
All I can say is that not only have I made my last GW purchase, but others who ask me about GW product will be told to stay away because of expense and shoddy rule design.

Did the shoddy design not bother you before this price rise?
I'm just curious, cause it'd seem to me like a much bigger gripe than price.


It had, I had been working on my own version for some time, and I’ve been playing far more D&D and Destiny 2 than 40K. Overall, I’d been around to collect the models, the game (Because of the poor design) has only ever been something I do every so often to remind myself why I don’t play regularly.


Same here honestly.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/10 00:59:25


Post by: stratigo


 Azreal13 wrote:
Cronch wrote:

They mishandled things for years and were still posting a profit. Their demand seems to be quite ineleastic.

They booted the long-time CEO from the position because of this attitude, because it was hurting the company.


No they didn't.

Kirby retired (he was in his 60s, so no real suspicion it was PR spin,) stayed on in a senior non-executive capacity and is still, afaik, a major private shareholder.

While there are certainly things that have happened under Rountree that have been positive, I don't think you can overlook the fact that he was a senior figure under Kirby, and also that the departure of Alan Merret was massively impactful as well.


GW almost went bankrupt a couple times mate under kirby. It isn't magical company immune to market shifts cause we nerds will pay whatever they demand and ask for more.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/10 01:17:05


Post by: Azreal13


Nope, they almost went bankrupt and Kirby led the management buyout that saved them.

Then they had another wobble post LOTR, which could perhaps be laid more at his feet, and then nothing else. The great financial crisis people seem to remember didn't even see them make a loss.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/10 01:20:42


Post by: totalfailure


stratigo wrote:


GW almost went bankrupt a couple times mate under kirby. It isn't magical company immune to market shifts cause we nerds will pay whatever they demand and ask for more.


Incorrect, and easily disproved by financial data readily available. GW was, and has been continuously profitable, and paying dividends. 2014 was the worst year since 2010, returning numbers similar the 2000s. The Kirby years were profitable - the only successful accusation one can make as an investor is that they could, and should have been MORE profitable. The idea that they were going under or losing money during the Kirby years is just wishful thinking.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/10 07:32:33


Post by: Tokhuah


At this point most of my models are in storage since I only play Kill Team. However, I am confident that GW will find a way to destroy KT with the next expansion. Introducing small 'vehicle' models like jet bikes and tomb blades would be a great start, or maybe KT soup? I did not check the prices of bikes, did they go up?


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/10 10:11:09


Post by: Irbis


 Tokhuah wrote:
At this point most of my models are in storage since I only play Kill Team. However, I am confident that GW will find a way to destroy KT with the next expansion. Introducing small 'vehicle' models like jet bikes and tomb blades would be a great start, or maybe KT soup? I did not check the prices of bikes, did they go up?

Funnily enough wolfwolfwolf riders were in the very first KT promo materials so cavalry might actually not be that far off...


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/10 12:15:54


Post by: SeanDrake


 totalfailure wrote:
stratigo wrote:


GW almost went bankrupt a couple times mate under kirby. It isn't magical company immune to market shifts cause we nerds will pay whatever they demand and ask for more.


Incorrect, and easily disproved by financial data readily available. GW was, and has been continuously profitable, and paying dividends. 2014 was the worst year since 2010, returning numbers similar the 2000s. The Kirby years were profitable - the only successful accusation one can make as an investor is that they could, and should have been MORE profitable. The idea that they were going under or losing money during the Kirby years is just wishful thinking.


Hell yeah they paid dividends even if they had to take out bank loans to do it oh and remind me who the biggest personal share holders were again? Ahhh the board who decide if dividends should be paid. So there was never any situation short of bankruptcy that was going to stop those divided payouts.

And there were a number of years where they only turned a profit due to there licensed products like total war and some creative write offs


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/10 12:24:59


Post by: Cronch


The idea that they were going under or losing money during the Kirby years is just wishful thinking.

If you make less money than previous years, surely it does mean you lost money in comparison? Your profits might have still been over your expenses, but you still earned less than previously.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/10 12:31:01


Post by: Overread


Cronch wrote:
The idea that they were going under or losing money during the Kirby years is just wishful thinking.

If you make less money than previous years, surely it does mean you lost money in comparison?



No, but many economists would like companies to think so. Continual profit rising every single year is basically unsustainable for any company to achieve within a single product line. Eventually you hit market saturation. Plus some years are going to be bigger than others for example I'd wager the 2018 sales for 40K are going to be hard to beat for a long while because that year reflected a huge number of old fans returning to the fold en-mass coupled to massive releases of codex (each one prompting fresh army sales). Attempting to maintain increasing profits every single year works ok for a while, but eventually markets saturate and then there is a steady decline in sales every year. The markets are still highly profitable, just not as much as they once were before because you've started to level out market growth. GW is working hard to grow their market right now so chances are we will see a lot of years with growing sales and growing profits before it levels out again.

Plus so long as you are in profit the company is in a good position, its when you've got shareholders wanting increasing returns on investment and managesr hunting for those increasing profits that companies start to undo their own good work and can scupper their long term plans because they wind up too focused on the short term annual profits.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/10 14:02:58


Post by: Azreal13



And there were a number of years where they only turned a profit due to there licensed products like total war and some creative write offs


So.. what? You're saying they made the wrong sort of profit?


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/10 14:09:37


Post by: stratigo


 totalfailure wrote:
stratigo wrote:


GW almost went bankrupt a couple times mate under kirby. It isn't magical company immune to market shifts cause we nerds will pay whatever they demand and ask for more.


Incorrect, and easily disproved by financial data readily available. GW was, and has been continuously profitable, and paying dividends. 2014 was the worst year since 2010, returning numbers similar the 2000s. The Kirby years were profitable - the only successful accusation one can make as an investor is that they could, and should have been MORE profitable. The idea that they were going under or losing money during the Kirby years is just wishful thinking.


Profits cratered under later kirby in a drastic downwards trend. That's not... signs of a healthy company.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/10 14:10:37


Post by: Overread


 Azreal13 wrote:

And there were a number of years where they only turned a profit due to there licensed products like total war and some creative write offs


So.. what? You're saying they made the wrong sort of profit?


In fairness that can be the wrong sort of profit. If your core product isn't actually making a profitable return on investment then that does show a big issue with the company, especially when the core product is supposed to be profitable rather than a franchise that you use to then generate income from licences.

Now licensed products making "more" profit in a year is perfectly fine, esp since for GW there's basically no cost so any return is basically pure profit for them; however if your core business can't cover its costs then that's a worrying sign. Why bother investing in more models if they are losing you money! Though thankfully GW didn't go down that path of thinking


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/10 14:11:28


Post by: stratigo


 Overread wrote:
Cronch wrote:
The idea that they were going under or losing money during the Kirby years is just wishful thinking.

If you make less money than previous years, surely it does mean you lost money in comparison?



No, but many economists would like companies to think so. Continual profit rising every single year is basically unsustainable for any company to achieve within a single product line. Eventually you hit market saturation. Plus some years are going to be bigger than others for example I'd wager the 2018 sales for 40K are going to be hard to beat for a long while because that year reflected a huge number of old fans returning to the fold en-mass coupled to massive releases of codex (each one prompting fresh army sales). Attempting to maintain increasing profits every single year works ok for a while, but eventually markets saturate and then there is a steady decline in sales every year. The markets are still highly profitable, just not as much as they once were before because you've started to level out market growth. GW is working hard to grow their market right now so chances are we will see a lot of years with growing sales and growing profits before it levels out again.

Plus so long as you are in profit the company is in a good position, its when you've got shareholders wanting increasing returns on investment and managesr hunting for those increasing profits that companies start to undo their own good work and can scupper their long term plans because they wind up too focused on the short term annual profits.


The later kirby years showed a downwards trend though, not an upwards one, which is bad for companies. In part because investors get skittish, in part because the entire system is reliant on continuous growth, which is why bubble chasing is the thing.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/10 14:22:53


Post by: Overread


True a downward trend isn't good, what's ideal is a general level of healthy stability with some years better than others. I think markets like GW can have downward trends for a while at times because you get a big generation push come through who all grow armies and then settle down at around the same time. The trick is being able to then upswing with recruiting a new generation which is basically what GW is pushing hard for.


It doesn't help that hands on toys have suffered over the years as the market has become far more bloated with competition and computer games making serious bids for peoples attention and money


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/10 16:06:34


Post by: Polonius


Kirasu wrote:It is getting fairly difficult to convince new people to try 40k when there are other games out there with relatively free rules, better testing and their vision tends to be “make a good game for gamers” rather than a good game for their share price.

Right now the matched play rules have 29 pages of FAQ and something like 27 pages of actual rules. There are a large amount of rules either spread out between books like chapter approved or you cant even download or buy anymore (assassin book for example), and prices for models that are a decade old keep going up (when real adjusted for inflation income has actually gone down over decades for the average american). The army I play at events is getting close to 1000$ without factoring in time or money to paint or assemble.


40k does very poorly against the field when it comes to competition. The theoretical alternatives simply crush it. the problem has always been finding an actual, concrete alternative. Warmachine had it's moments, but the models never really competed, while the prices were no lower. X-wing is just a bad a mess, rules wise, while also lacking the hobby element. Malifaux has very distinct aesthetic, isn't exactly cheap, and has spotty coverage. 40k, for all of it's many flaws, has a ton going for it.


gorgon wrote: The reaction here could be straight out of rec.games.miniatures.warhammer during the mid-90s. Hell, I remember being surprised by an $8 price tag for a blister of Aspect Warriors around 1990. It was probably twice what I would have paid from any other manufacturer at the time. Their prices have always been high, but people always like to think that their experiences are unique and new.


Maybe this is the time that the sky is truly falling, but it hasn't the last couple of dozen times prices went up.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/10 19:46:00


Post by: Azreal13


 Overread wrote:
 Azreal13 wrote:

And there were a number of years where they only turned a profit due to there licensed products like total war and some creative write offs


So.. what? You're saying they made the wrong sort of profit?


In fairness that can be the wrong sort of profit. If your core product isn't actually making a profitable return on investment then that does show a big issue with the company, especially when the core product is supposed to be profitable rather than a franchise that you use to then generate income from licences.

Now licensed products making "more" profit in a year is perfectly fine, esp since for GW there's basically no cost so any return is basically pure profit for them; however if your core business can't cover its costs then that's a worrying sign. Why bother investing in more models if they are losing you money! Though thankfully GW didn't go down that path of thinking


Your core business is what allows you to make money, it doesn't in and of itself have to be profitable. Neither does it have to remain the same over time.

Do you think a recording artist cares that they make more from merchandise than their music? Look at the history of Peugeot, they've manufactured many things before they started to make cars.

Besides, the discussion didn't start about how healthy GW were under Kirby, it was that they almost went bankrupt on multiple occasions, which is objectively and demonstrably false.



GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/10 21:14:01


Post by: dosiere


The fact for several years GW seemed to be intentionally driving people away and still maintained a dominant market position reveals just how powerful their brand a d products are. If the bad years between WFB dying and the release of AoS didn’t kill GW another price hike will not. As with all of these pice hikes, a small number of people will stop buying and current buyers will buy less, but they may very well make more money at the end of the day.

I never really understood why people wanted GW to die anyway. It would be nice if we had some real competition. The big turnaround by GW in many ways after AoS released was becuase they saw a real opportunity for competitiors to seize a big part of the market. It spurred some actual, realistic discussions at GW it seems, and led to some positive outcomes for its buyers and investors both.

The only real force that would keep GW prices lower would be a few competing products that GW saw as an actual threat to their core games. Aside from maybe X Wing I’ve just never seen any other game come close, and that game occupies a slightly different space anyway. Bolt Action seems to be doing exceptionally well for what it is, but again not quite the same. When gates of Antares and Kings of war never really took off the writing was on the wall.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/11 01:18:18


Post by: tneva82


stratigo wrote:
 Albino Squirrel wrote:
You're asking if it is okay for companies to choose what price they sell their products at? Uh, of course it is. That's how it works.


Are you sure? If GW suddenly decided every kit cost 1000 pounds or dollars or euros and the company quickly went out of business, would this have been an okay decision?


They are free to price them how they wish. Forum warriors have no right to tell gw what price is. What matters is what is price point gw gets most profit. Number of players etc is irrelevant. It's the final profit that counts. If 1000 pound gives more profit that is right price.

Gw and forum warriors disagree but question is will that hurt gw profit or not. Some quitting buying isn't it all. Gw being atm unable to keep up with supply actually indicates prices could very well be too cheap...

Welcome to the real world


Automatically Appended Next Post:
SeanDrake wrote:
 totalfailure wrote:
stratigo wrote:


GW almost went bankrupt a couple times mate under kirby. It isn't magical company immune to market shifts cause we nerds will pay whatever they demand and ask for more.


Incorrect, and easily disproved by financial data readily available. GW was, and has been continuously profitable, and paying dividends. 2014 was the worst year since 2010, returning numbers similar the 2000s. The Kirby years were profitable - the only successful accusation one can make as an investor is that they could, and should have been MORE profitable. The idea that they were going under or losing money during the Kirby years is just wishful thinking.


Hell yeah they paid dividends even if they had to take out bank loans to do it oh and remind me who the biggest personal share holders were again? Ahhh the board who decide if dividends should be paid. So there was never any situation short of bankruptcy that was going to stop those divided payouts.

And there were a number of years where they only turned a profit due to there licensed products like total war and some creative write offs


Uuuh you realize right numbers are public info? They didn't take loans. They had big profits. Not good idea to make claim that is easily proven deliberately constructed misinformation.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/11 01:43:38


Post by: Hulksmash


They did borrow one year to pay the dividend. If my memory is right it was only once but they did borrow at least once for a larger dividend payment.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/11 07:36:35


Post by: Lord Kragan


SeanDrake wrote:
 totalfailure wrote:
stratigo wrote:


GW almost went bankrupt a couple times mate under kirby. It isn't magical company immune to market shifts cause we nerds will pay whatever they demand and ask for more.


Incorrect, and easily disproved by financial data readily available. GW was, and has been continuously profitable, and paying dividends. 2014 was the worst year since 2010, returning numbers similar the 2000s. The Kirby years were profitable - the only successful accusation one can make as an investor is that they could, and should have been MORE profitable. The idea that they were going under or losing money during the Kirby years is just wishful thinking.


Hell yeah they paid dividends even if they had to take out bank loans to do it oh and remind me who the biggest personal share holders were again? Ahhh the board who decide if dividends should be paid. So there was never any situation short of bankruptcy that was going to stop those divided payouts.

And there were a number of years where they only turned a profit due to there licensed products like total war and some creative write offs


That is something patently false. The year they released TW:WH (2015-2016) they *still* 10 millions of profit on their own activity. B


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/11 12:23:02


Post by: Obispudkenobi


 Hulksmash wrote:
They did borrow one year to pay the dividend. If my memory is right it was only once but they did borrow at least once for a larger dividend payment.


Loaning money to pay a dividend is actually perfectly fine and is actually a positive thing in business, companies like GW don't work like personal finance, LTD companies with shareholders and investors don't work like sole traders either.

Accounting is done after the fact, way after in many cases, the profits from that period may be retained or used and invested by the time accounts are finalised, but that doesn't mean the investors shouldn't get paid, so it's okay for a company to loan money to pay the dividend , infact it's sometimes much better to do so as it shows the market that the company is confident in its ability to pay the credit and that cash flow is good ,that provides potential investors with proof that they will get a return on investment.

Borrowing money in business is alot different from consumer borrowing.

This type of thing is another reason why comparing GW and it's pricing to other companies in this industry is pointless, GW operations are apples to everyone else's oranges.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/11 13:19:44


Post by: stratigo


tneva82 wrote:
stratigo wrote:
 Albino Squirrel wrote:
You're asking if it is okay for companies to choose what price they sell their products at? Uh, of course it is. That's how it works.


Are you sure? If GW suddenly decided every kit cost 1000 pounds or dollars or euros and the company quickly went out of business, would this have been an okay decision?


They are free to price them how they wish. Forum warriors have no right to tell gw what price is. What matters is what is price point gw gets most profit. Number of players etc is irrelevant. It's the final profit that counts. If 1000 pound gives more profit that is right price.

Gw and forum warriors disagree but question is will that hurt gw profit or not. Some quitting buying isn't it all. Gw being atm unable to keep up with supply actually indicates prices could very well be too cheap...

Welcome to the real world


And on this level of reasoning, unless you are a gw shareholder, you shouldn't be okay with their price rises. YEs they can price as they wish (Except when they can't). But that's for THEIR benefit. Not the consumer's. So it behooves consumers to make as much of a scene and issue of the price raises as possible to disincentivize further price raises. But you seem to be the sort that goes "Anything a company does is good, any attempts to restrain it is bad".

The real word isn't "Corporations should have all the power, lay down and accept their dictates you parasites". That's Rand's pretend world.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/11 14:26:28


Post by: Albino Squirrel


You don't seem to know much about how the real world works at all, stratigo. Or how businesses operate. But go ahead and rage against the machine. i'm sure Games Workshop will lower thier prices if you complain enough on a message board.


GW-NA Price Hike Announcement @ 2019/07/11 16:54:40


Post by: axisofentropy


stratigo wrote:

The real word isn't "Corporations should have all the power, lay down and accept their dictates you parasites". That's Rand's pretend world.
how exactly is our world different?