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Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

GW have previously stated in their annual report that their preferred strategy was to increase prices as new product was released, rather than an annual across the board increase.

If people are prepared to do the mental gymnastics necessary to try and frame that as "not a price rise" are clearly desperate to defend GW rather than have a reasonable conversation and beyond redemption.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/06 01:40:16


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

tneva82 wrote:
But if new kit costs more than previous totally comparable kit...and next one...soon we have unit boxes costing 100 when same kind of kit used to be 50. Different poses sure cost much!
It's worse than that. Cadians used to come in boxes of 20. They're about to go up in price again, and there's half as many models in there.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




And people tried to justify price hike like GW is some indie company struggling financially when the reality is their profit skyrocket in every recent report. They would survive fine with the old price. But I figure the investors wouldn't be very happy to see the profit have a slight drop.

The reality for the consumer is if you don't like the price, just walk, or wait for those bundle box and ebay/split them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/06 03:44:07


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Polonius wrote:
stratigo wrote:


You are literally just making gak up though.

GW has fethed up basic 101 level economics before, and corporations have literally driven the world economy into the ground over self defeating fast profit schemes before. What is driving any price rise is not usually based on long term market analysis, but an eye on short term margins that pad immediate profit that strokes the wallets of disconnected share holders and can justify the bonus of the executives. The sustainability of such practices is never the point because there's no real consequence for failure for the people who implement these policies.


Well, I was speculating on the sort of data and strategy that could be driving their decision making, which while admittedly involves making stuff up, I feel like my guess has a good chance of being accurate. I think there are large cohorts of both price insensitive consumers as well as value conscious consumers in the market. I think it’s prudent to entice both to buy your products.

As for second point, yes, experts have been wrong with catastrophic results. That doesn’t mean they are always wrong. You can get all freakanomics and talk about the cases when experts have been shown to be wrong, but that’s usually by other, better experts. Pricing consumer goods is not an unknowable mystery, and GW is a publicly traded company with professional management. They could be making a mistake, but they probably aren’t.


The problem is that you think the experts are incentivized to make sustainable smart long term decisions. And they are not. Nor are they incentivized to make decisions in the best interests of their consumers. All the incentives are about making profit NOW. As much as you can, always more than last year. If you have to burn the future for a few dollars more today, you will, because the experts don't suffer many ill effects, but get large bonuses for doing such things. Corporations are not, as you seem to thing, run by randian super men just better than everyone else. People will do what benefits them the most in the short term.
   
Made in de
Huge Bone Giant






 Overread wrote:
Of cousre this can be a bit muddy to read esp for something like Age of Sigmar where a lot of models changed roles. Eg Daughters of Khaine Witch Aelves were once an elite unit pack designed to be bought perhaps a few times and that was it; now they are a core troop to be used multiple times. Yet their price never lowered so they appear very overpriced compared to other regular troop choices for other armies.


For the record, in the Dark Elves army book released alongside the plastic Witch Elves, Witch Elves were a Core and Sisters of Slaughter a Rare choice. GW just went with a ludicrous price as if they were only ever going to sell any single Dark Elf player two boxes for Sisters of Slaughter. That was in 8th ed where there was every incentive to have multiple blocks of forty or fifty Witch Elves.

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I don't play fyreslayers because of price as a note. I would spend way more money if my money went farther.
   
Made in es
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer






stratigo wrote:
I don't play fyreslayers because of price as a note. I would spend way more money if my money went farther.

Basically this. The higher the cost, the more careful I'm gonna be with my spenditures.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




While not exactly connected to the NA price rises, does anyone know what's going on with the UK prices as some of the third party sellers seem to have implemented a price rise before GW themselves with a higher RRP on some items then GWs own website. For example Element Games has the RRP of a Riptide as £65 but the GW site still has it as £50.
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




This whole price rise thing is a bit of a snafu and we really need gw to say something about it
   
Made in us
Keeper of the Flame





Monticello, IN

stratigo wrote:
This whole price rise thing is a bit of a snafu and we really need gw to say something about it


Overpricing isn't a bug as far as GW's plan, it's a feature. They will push prices as high as they can as long as people are willing to spend it.

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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its AoS, it doesn't have to make sense.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






Volkmair wrote:
While not exactly connected to the NA price rises, does anyone know what's going on with the UK prices as some of the third party sellers seem to have implemented a price rise before GW themselves with a higher RRP on some items then GWs own website. For example Element Games has the RRP of a Riptide as £65 but the GW site still has it as £50.



The price rises in the UK were retroactive on anything ordered after the announcement, so basically if store A has it in stock they can sell it at the lower price but if store B has to order it in then it’s at the new extortionate price.
GW are terrified of repeating the SC box fiasco so we will not be getting any warning about price hikes in future.

Your last point is especially laughable and comical, because not only the 7th ed Valkyrie shown dumber things (like being able to throw the troopers without parachutes out of its hatches, no harm done) - Irbis 
   
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SeanDrake wrote:
Volkmair wrote:
While not exactly connected to the NA price rises, does anyone know what's going on with the UK prices as some of the third party sellers seem to have implemented a price rise before GW themselves with a higher RRP on some items then GWs own website. For example Element Games has the RRP of a Riptide as £65 but the GW site still has it as £50.



The price rises in the UK were retroactive on anything ordered after the announcement, so basically if store A has it in stock they can sell it at the lower price but if store B has to order it in then it’s at the new extortionate price.
GW are terrified of repeating the SC box fiasco so we will not be getting any warning about price hikes in future.


Man that's confusing as prices are all over the place until every store has used up all their old price stock.
   
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This strikes me as the tipping point before 3d printing becomes mass adopted. We've just about hit the point where high quality SLA 3d printers are almost at a trivial price point when placed into the perspective of this hobby. In fact, the sale that Elegoo was running on their mars 3d printer, 249 freedom bucks off of Amazon, a few days ago strikes me as being the point where mass adoption becomes feasible.

After all, there are many kits that provide a downright terrible value, and it strikes me that most people would be very hard pressed to justify buying multiple kits that have gone up in price but have not been updated in a decade or longer. Especially, when we could instead buy a 10$ set of 3d models from an independent modeler, and print a customized and highly detailed alternative sculpt.

Overall, I suspect that the market is going to face a decent amount of disruption in the near future, and it will be interesting to see how the current players in this sphere react to these developments.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/06 17:41:47


 
   
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I've seen that comment probably 2-3 times per year for the last four years. Why is this any different?

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It's different because good quality 3d printers are approaching impulse-buy prices.

Yes people have been talking about them for years, but despite the tech being available, the price to quality ratio wasn't there yet. That is no longer the case.
   
Made in ca
Fireknife Shas'el






 EnTyme wrote:
I've seen that comment probably 2-3 times per year for the last four years. Why is this any different?


It isn't any different. Everyone touting 3D printing casually dismisses any post-processing work or printer failures or the cost of resins (because the good printers are resin, not filament), or any of a number of other issues involved. If you want to make 3D printing stuff part of your hobby, that's great, but it's not a care-free experience and you're still not getting the same level of quality unless you're using a really high end rig (in the thousands, not hundreds).

   
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 barboggo wrote:
It's different because good quality 3d printers are approaching impulse-buy prices.

Yes people have been talking about them for years, but despite the tech being available, the price to quality ratio wasn't there yet. That is no longer the case.


Hey! That's the same reply I got the last 6 times I asked that question!

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1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress
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Made in vn
Longtime Dakkanaut




If by 3d printing you mean actually buy a 3d printer and print it yourself then I can inform you that it would be unlikely to "take over" GW business.

The moment GW ditch the old "too complicated" rule and replace it with simplified rule that even simpleton could play with their profit skyrocket and players start pouring in. And you expect that same players would do something like print their own models? These players have money, they aren't stupid, they're just really lazy.

Also not to mention the waiting, the sanding and knifework after. printing....hmmm nope too complicated and time consuming.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/06 20:26:12


 
   
Made in es
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 EnTyme wrote:
I've seen that comment probably 2-3 times per year for the last four years. Why is this any different?

Well, in my particular case this time is different because I actually have a resin printer now.
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

 barboggo wrote:
It's different because good quality 3d printers are approaching impulse-buy prices.


But they're nowhere near plug and play useability.

I'd been printing with my i3 for a week before I realized it was horribly calibrated. Then there's learning how to use slicer software and how best to slice the model for minimum trouble/max quality. I'm still not done with the list of things I need to calibrate/measure to ensure I've got everything dialed in almost two months on.

Then there's the build times...

Also the cost of STLs if purchased from a professional, while not huge in most cases, can often be high enough to make just buying a similar kit a consideration. Thingiverse and similar are an excellent resource, but the lack of gatekeeping means any spod can upload any old crap without so much as test printing it themselves. This is fairly easy to spot, but requires some knowledge which circles back to my point about needing to learn stuff.

People seem to have this idea they're somehow like the replicators from the Enterprise, it in reality they're more like a tool such as an airbrush, an excellent method of achieving certain things, but I'm pretty sure my local art store still has racks of hairy brushes.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

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[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





I have lots of printers (4) and I still buy minis.

Terrain however I've pretty much stopped buying as is just so much cheaper to print your own and some amazing designs out there for a good price. And if you're a big terrain person you're use to tinkering with things to make it so 3d printing is a natural evolution of that.

As for them becoming a replacement for cast minis. Eventually they will. SLA (resin) style printers are probable the type that can be made mostly "plug and play" based off of how the tech works (only one moving part and just needs to be cleaned with iso) but I don't see a large market for that right now so it will be a slow build up as manufactures compete as there's really not much difference between a $400 and a $600 SLA printer. They're easy to keep going too as you just swap out a LCD screen once it's burned out.

FDM printers probable never will be as there's too many moving parts, too many fail points and need regular maintenance even if the consumables are much cheaper.
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

Agreed on all points.

One of the main things I've developed since getting an FDM printer is the desire to get an SLA one too!


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

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Made in gb
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Seems a good place to ask but is there a good budget SLA printer?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Seems a good place to ask but is there a good budget SLA printer?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/07 08:36:57


Your last point is especially laughable and comical, because not only the 7th ed Valkyrie shown dumber things (like being able to throw the troopers without parachutes out of its hatches, no harm done) - Irbis 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





The first barrier was cost-to-quality ratio which we're starting to hit. The next will be ease of use. Hobbyists are already starting to own 3d printers exclusively for 40k. My neighbor does. Spent under $200 for an Ender 3 and we've already printed a ton of terrain with it. It's fantastic.

They're still a pain to calibrate and yeah, the comparison to airbrushes is a pretty good one. Hopefully they will get more plug and play in the next couple of years. But currently they are already completely accessible for roughly the amount of money and effort it takes to use a mid-range airbrush setup.

That sounds like a tipping point to me.

--- 
   
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Fresh-Faced New User



Oz

SeanDrake wrote:
Seems a good place to ask but is there a good budget SLA printer?

.

It depends... I'm having fun with an Anycubic Photon S and it does very high quality prints, but many prefer the original Photon due to the better community support (and you can almost modify it to S structure)

The Epax X1 is considered the correct version of the Photon S (shares the operating system with the Photon)

The Mars is ok but has a small community.

Not much out there about the proposed Prusa, but that will likely be the most expensive of them all
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut






Munster wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:
Seems a good place to ask but is there a good budget SLA printer?

.

It depends... I'm having fun with an Anycubic Photon S and it does very high quality prints, but many prefer the original Photon due to the better community support (and you can almost modify it to S structure)

The Epax X1 is considered the correct version of the Photon S (shares the operating system with the Photon)

The Mars is ok but has a small community.

Not much out there about the proposed Prusa, but that will likely be the most expensive of them all


Thanks for the advice, so the Mars is ok is it? Because at £220 it is way cheaper than the others and is like 1 months hobby money so I could give it a try.

Your last point is especially laughable and comical, because not only the 7th ed Valkyrie shown dumber things (like being able to throw the troopers without parachutes out of its hatches, no harm done) - Irbis 
   
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on Facebook some people say also items like the Riptide go up 15 Pound, does anyone have a more complete list? I would buy lots of stuff if more items than the ones on the list would go up in price tomorrow...
   
Made in fi
Charging Wild Rider





SeanDrake wrote:
GW are terrified of repeating the SC box fiasco so we will not be getting any warning about price hikes in future.

Could anybody fill me in on what happened? I see a few references to it in this thread, but haven't a clue what exactly occurred.
   
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Gathering the Informations.

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:
GW are terrified of repeating the SC box fiasco so we will not be getting any warning about price hikes in future.

Could anybody fill me in on what happened? I see a few references to it in this thread, but haven't a clue what exactly occurred.

The Start Collecting sets went up in price, anywhere from $5USD to $10USD.

Not sure how it's a "fiasco" but basically it was in response to the fact that some items were effectively 'free' for some of those sets.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

I wasn't a fiasco - GW just got lots of orders in before raising the price on the boxed sets when they announced the rise approaching. If anything it likely did their sales a really good turn in generating a load of extra sales even if it put production under increased load stress (which honestly until their new factory comes online appears to be pretty normal for GW at present).

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