Switch Theme:

GW-NA Price Hike Announcement  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut




 Albino Squirrel wrote:
You don't seem to know much about how the real world works at all, stratigo. Or how businesses operate. But go ahead and rage against the machine. i'm sure Games Workshop will lower thier prices if you complain enough on a message board.

Your interest as a customer is always opposed to the goal of the business, and you should always do everything you can to buy as cheap as possible (and legal of course!).
I'd also point out that they did lower prices a few times before, even if only via discounted bundle boxes, so clearly customer pressure works to some extent.
   
Made in gb
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Devon, UK

Sure, that's certainly one perfectly valid way to view it.

The other is that they had a bunch of kits that weren't really shifting after the first flush of sales at release, and by bundling those together they managed to shift a bunch of inventory much more quickly, freeing up warehouse space and liquidating dead money.

The truth is likely somewhere in the middle I suspect.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Steelcity

Im sure Brexit is one of the main culprits. With the pound in freefall they're protecting their sales (which is why I assume FW is gouging US customers)

Keeper of the DomBox
Warhammer Armies - Click to see galleries of fully painted armies
32,000, 19,000, Renegades - 10,000 , 7,500,  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Baltimore, MD

Cronch wrote:
Your interest as a customer is always opposed to the goal of the business, and you should always do everything you can to buy as cheap as possible (and legal of course!).
I'd also point out that they did lower prices a few times before, even if only via discounted bundle boxes, so clearly customer pressure works to some extent.


So, the goal of a specific negotiation, usually over price, has opposing parties. However, rarely are two parties completely opposed, if for no other reason than they both gain more benefit from the exchange than they put in. If one party stopped trading they would be worse off. Meaning, if GW goes out of business, while I can certainly buy 40k for cheap, it will have far less value.

I'm shockingly price immune. I have a huge collection, the vast majority of it purchased second hand. But, I play in tournaments, so when I need to buy something new, it doesn't really matter what it costs, I bought it. For example, when the new codex came out for IG, bullgryns actually became quite good, so I bought three boxes for a max unit. However, I already have more than enough Chimeras, so even if GW lowered the price on them to $20 a box, I probably wouldn't buy any.




My Painted Armies
: Co. B, 37th Praetorian IG: 11,000pts
Cygnar: 350pts
KOW Ogres: 4500 points
Loyalist Emperor's Children: 2500 points 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




 Kirasu wrote:
Im sure Brexit is one of the main culprits. With the pound in freefall they're protecting their sales (which is why I assume FW is gouging US customers)


They're not really protecting their sales though, because if I could buy in GBP, I'd be buying even more stuff as the pound drops. Indeed that's exactly what I used to do when I lived in Asia and the pound was weak.

What the switch to USD for Rest of World FW (and mainstream GW for all countries not already served by a webstore) does is allow GW to profit off their fictitious exchange rate without actually selling more product (they're hoping people won't stop buying, of course), and as the pound falls, their fictitious exchange rate protects their GBP-denominated headquarter profits even more. They're not protecting themselves from Brexit; they're taking advantage of Brexit to make more money without making more product.

By way of example: a box retailing for £100 in the UK includes 20% VAT so it's actually retailing for £83.33 plus 20% tax.
The same box retails in Canada for $200 exclusive of local sales taxes.
The fictitious exchange rate then is GBP1 = CAD2.4
The actual exchange rate last December was GBP1 = CAD1.72, so that $200 box netted GW £116.28
Today the pound continues to fall and it's now at GBP 1 = CAD 1.64. The $200 box sold in Canada gets GW's HQ £121.95.

Since GW reports their global income to the city in pounds, they'll look like superstars even though they're obliged to also show constant currency reporting.
   
Made in gb
Captain




London

Wonder how much a space marine will cost come no deal in Nov?
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Drag on Society





Armpit of NY

Of course, GW is under no obligation to follow whatever banks have decided the 'official' exchange rate is. They can make it whatever they like, and we can decide whether to buy or not. I'm largely 'out' these days other than Titanicus and my copy of Space Hulk, so I have some insulation against price increases. Others are likely a lot more exposed.
   
Made in jp
Boosting Black Templar Biker





Ishikawa Prefecture, Japan

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Wonder how much a space marine will cost come no deal in Nov?


about three bottles of clean drinking water, a sack of grain and half a cap of penicillin

   
Made in ie
Regular Dakkanaut




Ireland

 posermcbogus wrote:
 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Wonder how much a space marine will cost come no deal in Nov?


about three bottles of clean drinking water, a sack of grain and half a cap of penicillin


I'd wait till January, given the high obesity levels in the UK diabetes is just waiting to pounce. The UK has no insulin production facilities, it is made in the rest of Europe, and Trump is ready to buy up the NHS. Insulin will more than likely be traded as the new gold standard.

Back on topic.
Remember when GW slipped and announced their price increase as a their yearly increase... at least now they have a better PR team to avoid that level of slip up. ('nu' GW is your friend because it is self aware marketing) It is however business as usual, they'll keep ramping up the prices to sell fewer items with a higher mark up to a smaller group of people with disposal income.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/12 10:07:35


The objective of the game is to win. The point of the game is to have fun. The two should never be confused. 
   
Made in ca
Posts with Authority




I'm from the future. The future of space

The real reason for these price increases is that just having higher new release prices isn't hitting their margin goals. They out right stated this in their financial reports. Then the start collecting boxes went up. Now this.

For GW to only have price increases on their new releases of around 9-10% over the same sort of product from the previous year and still hit their margin and return on capital goals, they need a full third of their sales to be new releases.

Instead their broader product line of older releases is selling well. People are buying all sorts of stuff. So to maintain their margins, the price increases need to be across the board.

This is a good problem for GW to have.

Ork boys for $35 instead of $30? I'll live. If they came out today they'd be $50+ like the ork buggy kits that came out around speed freaks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
One of things that also makes prices more palatable for me is that I don't do tournament lists. So the contents of start collecting boxes, starter sets, the apocalypse detachment boxes, the similarly priced boxes at Christmas, the two army boxes, they all work for me. I don't care about the power level of the contents of those boxes, just whether or not I like the miniatures. So I simply have more options to get GW at lower prices than someone who is constrained to a small subset of their chosen army.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/12 10:11:05


Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better. 
   
Made in fi
Nimble Glade Rider





Suppose it was only a matter of time before the older sets went up in price again; as said the price difference between some older and newer kits can be quite striking. Disappointed by the lack of communication however, that's something they were supposed to be better at now. (Making it a very deliberate choice.)

The changes seem to be fairly random too. Back in February, I ordered a bunch of Empire/Freeguild kits, and looking at those now, we have:
Empire General: was 23€, still €23
Flagellants: were 23€, now 22.75€ (yes, a tiny reduction!)
State Troops: were 20€, now 22.50€
Archers: were 20€, still 20€

Looks pretty messy too, with differences of 0.25€.


You won't hear me say that I won't continue purchasing items from them at all, but I certainly can't see myself getting large kits like the Lord of Change at this pricepoint. 50 for a Treeman, but 110 for the Lord of Change? Almost the price level of a complete Blackstone Fortress box now.
   
Made in us
Veteran Inquisitor with Xenos Alliances






Kirasu wrote:Im sure Brexit is one of the main culprits. With the pound in freefall they're protecting their sales (which is why I assume FW is gouging US customers)
What they're doing is the opposite of that. The GBP is problematic, but the situation means UK domestic sales results in less money relative to global values and US sales without a price adjustment results in a greater global value than before. So if this is a "Brexit" thing it means they're passing on the potential loss from their domestic sales on to US customers, that US customers would be effectively subsidizing UK customers.

I don't believe its that sort of thing; the price increases are too specific and targeted. GW has been touted and written about in at least one British financial publication as "Brexit proof". GW has also been very profitable the last 2 years, if this were something less under their control it'd be more uniform.

Similarly if it was some factor that impacts manufacturing it'd be more evenly distributed. To me it pretty clear this is less responsive to external factors and more to do with meeting internal goals.

I think GW's price increases are indicative of a certain sort of accounting practice. I think on a product to product basis they're tracking the sales and comparing that to the projected revenue. So if they want $15k in revenue from Khorne Berzerkers, but last year it only made $14k, they don't care about the volume of product, just the volume of revenue, so they raise the price of Khorne Berzerkers to the next price bracket to realign to their desired revenue.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Steelcity

 aka_mythos wrote:
Kirasu wrote:Im sure Brexit is one of the main culprits. With the pound in freefall they're protecting their sales (which is why I assume FW is gouging US customers)
What they're doing is the opposite of that. The GBP is problematic, but the situation means UK domestic sales results in less money relative to global values and US sales without a price adjustment results in a greater global value than before. So if this is a "Brexit" thing it means they're passing on the potential loss from their domestic sales on to US customers, that US customers would be effectively subsidizing UK customers.

I don't believe its that sort of thing; the price increases are too specific and targeted. GW has been touted and written about in at least one British financial publication as "Brexit proof". GW has also been very profitable the last 2 years, if this were something less under their control it'd be more uniform.

Similarly if it was some factor that impacts manufacturing it'd be more evenly distributed. To me it pretty clear this is less responsive to external factors and more to do with meeting internal goals.

I think GW's price increases are indicative of a certain sort of accounting practice. I think on a product to product basis they're tracking the sales and comparing that to the projected revenue. So if they want $15k in revenue from Khorne Berzerkers, but last year it only made $14k, they don't care about the volume of product, just the volume of revenue, so they raise the price of Khorne Berzerkers to the next price bracket to realign to their desired revenue.


FW increases were certainly not targeted. They went from allowing us to pay in GBP to forcing us to pay in USD at a 15% inflated rate than the day before. Maybe GW is using accounting gimmicks but FW seemed specifically trying to protect themselves from the pound being lower and lower on a daily basis.

Keeper of the DomBox
Warhammer Armies - Click to see galleries of fully painted armies
32,000, 19,000, Renegades - 10,000 , 7,500,  
   
Made in gb
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Devon, UK

You do understand FW is just a brand name? Anything FW do is just GW in a different hat.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Carnifex






https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/cc993y/gws_price_hikes_an_attempt_to_explain_theyre_not/

This post makes a lot of sense:
Having been flicking through the various threads recently around the price increases, I've noticed there seems to be a tonne of people blaming this on corporate greed. I get that price increases suck, and there's nothing wrong with pointing that out. I just feel blaming those increases on greed is unfair, so I figured I'd attempt to refute this with knowledge and the like and maybe try and change some people's opinions with facts. Price increases are a lot more palatable if you've got a better idea of why they exist.



I work in the finance industry, specifically in asset finance. Basically my job is to take a look at a company asking for business equipment costing anywhere from a couple of grand to a lot more. I have to look at a company's finances and gamble that said company will be around for long enough to pay back the cost and then a bit more of the business equipment we buy for them. I've reviewed the accounts of all sorts of businesses going from local co-operative societies, small retailers and all the way up to enormous money-driven corporations.

GW's latest annual return is available here. While it's a year old due to the way UK company filing laws work, it's a detailed look at what GW are trying to achieve, where they want to be, how much money they make and how much it costs them to make that money. There are several interesting points of note here;



Firstly - GW have made some very substantial investments lately. £8.9 million on software and the design studios, and £3.1 million on tooling for new model moulds, as well as £2.1 million on just the LAND to expand their production facility. The vast majority of businesses will seek finance for projects like these - GW do not. This is all from their own cash reserves and cash flow. Effectively, what GW are doing here is saying "Well, currently things are going great. We have enough money to fund all this stuff safely, so we won't be in debt if things go downhill in a few years." GW fund everything they do from their own cash flow, which is a very sensible thing to do as a business if you can afford to do it. If GW were trying to get as much money as possible into the hands of shareholders, they'd be financing things to allow for a bigger surplus to pay dividends.



Secondly - 76% of GW's sales come from outside of the UK. That's (by 1%) more than 3/4 of their total sales. That's huge, especially considering the potential impact of Brexit. We're not talking about "A tonne of plastic might cost £50 more" here - It's entirely possible the UK economy could end up really badly suffering - It's not out of the realms of possibility that this political fethery could cost GW literal 10's of millions. The impact isn't likely to be that bad, but noone really knows how bad it will be. GW have to prepare for the very worst of eventualities just in case, and preparing adequately for something with potential ramifications this big boils down to having a big enough pile of cash to survive a few years of hardly making any. You have a savings account in case of an unexpected bill right? This is that, but business.



Thirdly, GW pay a tax rate of 19.9% in the UK. For a company this big, this is really unusual. I spend half of my day trying to figure out corporate webs involving the Cayman Islands, shell companies, loopholes and everything else. GW just straight up aren't doing any of this - They're 100% based in the UK, following UK laws and everything else. I mean, you can literally click the link above and basically look inside their wallet. Try that for any major video game company and see if you manage to get a conclusive picture of anything. Sure, there's a few but the majority of them are eking out every penny of profit they can by clouding the money trail through holding entities.



Paying the staff - The highest paid director at GW is Kevin Roundtree, with a remuneration package of £428K a year. Yes, that is a pretty decent amount of money to earn, but for people at the head of a company of this size, that's on the lower end of the scale. He also took a £250 profit share - Every single member of GW staff besides the top 2 directors received £1000. I will state that the top directors are being considered for a 100% salary bonus for exceptional performance, but by all markers I'd say GW's performance has been exceptional.



Old models going up in price. This seems odd right? GW have had the moulds for ages, they don't need to do anything else. The problem is, every time GW make a production run of Eldar troops or Drukhari, that's machinery and staff that could be making Intercessors or Chaos Marines, which are practically guaranteed to sell much faster and therefore be more profitable. One thing I'm not even going to try and get my head around is model pricing with points cost and in game power levels taken into account, because that's beyond my brain.



One thing I do find surprising is all the stores actually are profitable - However, a huge number of them are one man stores because otherwise they're not profitable. 43% of GW sales are through third party retailers, 37% through stores and 20% online. GW will be making less money on third party sales, but they show a clear understanding that these third party sales are a vital part of their business.



The year this return refers to, GW made a profit of £38,494,000 after tax on sales of around £219 million. The previous year that figure was £26,594,000. Figures for this year aren't available yet, but I'd expect a higher figure than that. The year after Brexit, I'd expect those profits to be much, much lower.



Analysing the financials of GW, as well as their strategy (stated in the first few pages), basically confirms that GW's aim is to continue trading forever. GW want to keep the game going forever. They want to engage new players as much as possible, they want to hang onto the title of making the nicest miniatures, and they value their reputation extremely highly.



If GW were a giant corporate money-grabber, they could manufacture their products in the usual plastic toy making countries with no insurmountable consequences other than some temporary reputation issues and hugely increase their margins. They could adopt a far more "tax efficient" structure, but they do not. Manufacturing products like this in the UK is a crazy thing to do these days - The only reason you'd do it is for reputation and to support the local community. GW are knowingly denying themselves a big increase in profits by keeping manufacturing in the UK. They're paying their high level management a fair amount for what they do, but not close to an excessive amount.



What I'm saying is, GW could enormously increase their profits without a lot of effort. They could make an absolute boatload more money than they are fairly easily if they ignored customer concerns entirely and went full on Amazon. Instead of doing that, they're doing what the sons of Dorn would do - Fortifying their business to ensure it continues for the good of humanity in the long term. Yes, GW are a business. Yes, GW want your money. No, GW are not driven by greed - They just want to ensure they can keep trading, minimise any future risks and repel the forces of financial calamity if they need to so they can keep supporting their staff and customer base. As big corporations go, GW are the Salamanders when most other similar sized companies driven by profit and greed will just go full on post-nails post-heresy World Eaters.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/13 04:13:10


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




The numbers in the post are good but the conclusions are just, like, your opinion, man...

As a US customer I'd rather GW use some of them offshore accounts and save me 10-15% they could be saving in taxes, make their stuff in china/3rd world and knock another 15-20% off. Those are the customer concerns I'd like to see them address (also since 3/4 of their customers are outside of the UK...)

The brexit thing has been talked about but unless the UK gets spicy the drop in the pound will make GW more on paper money than whatever tariffs they will face (especially if they can figure out who is in charge long enough to make some trade deals).

I fail to see how anyone can look at a company raising prices on already profitable products and turn around and say "but they are doing it for your own good...". Much like every other thread on Dakka GW aren't literally the devil but they sure as hell aren't eldar flyer (or other OP BS list) levels of the good.

The disconnect in adjacent sentences "Yes, GW want your money. No, GW are not driven by greed..." Raising prices on already profitable goods all the while having other levers to MAINTAIN profits if necessary seems a pretty good fit for greed as defined by wanting more than you need.

Even if this increase is in response to temporary issues (increased expenses, limited production, threat of brexit tariffs, whatever) I doubt anyone is expecting this price increases to go away. GW is trying to get as much $$ from their customers as possible (like most reasonable corporations) but in a very transparent and ham-fisted way which leaves me with a bad used car salesman feel.. It doesn't make them the devil but it sure as hell doesn't make them your friend/supporter.

It is personally off-putting to me and will impact my buying pattern. I hope other people react with their wallets as well but I doubt it will have an impact on existing customers but I think it will have a chilling effect on new customer acquisitions.
   
Made in fi
Nimble Glade Rider





Have we come to the point where any company that doesn't "work in mysterious ways" via offshores and tax avoidance has to be celebrated? Because if so, oof, that's depressing.

Any comparison with other companies only works to a certain point because only GW is in the exact position GW is in. But all UK miniature companies I'm familiar with produce their models either in-house (mainly metals, Victrix possibly their plastics?) or via Renedra (plastics), als in the UK. Don't think Perry Miniatures operates via firms in Luxembourg, Ireland, the Netherlands, the Isle of Man, Gibraltar, or any more exotic locations either.

The main thing is simply that GW is focussed on growth. Much of their dominance relies entirely on their dominance: if 40k is no longer the most common miniature game in an area, existing players will switch and new players will start doing whatever does guarantee them opponents and shops will stock that product. The ease of access is the biggest thing they have going for them, combined with a recognizable and popular IP. Prices and arguably quality of the rules are not their main assets. In order to remain dominant, they have invested massively in plastic model production - how many plastic sets were released per year 10-15 years ago? Plastic is easy to glue, paint, transport - much more accessible than metal figures. It's also very expensive to produce moulds for. But it allows them to stay on top and ahead of the competition, so everything has to grow in order to accomodate that. They could easily choose to be cheaper, but they clearly make enough money at current price levels, and will likely do about as well after a 10% price increase.

Brexit can't be a major factor in this. I doubt a few percent more profit on part of the range over the next 3 months is going to massively enrich them. I suppose it could theoretically factor in future tariffs, but it makes much more sense to raise the prices then and have a public excuse to do so.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/12 21:12:15


 
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




bananathug wrote:
The numbers in the post are good but the conclusions are just, like, your opinion, man...

As a US customer I'd rather GW use some of them offshore accounts and save me 10-15% they could be saving in taxes, make their stuff in china/3rd world and knock another 15-20% off. Those are the customer concerns I'd like to see them address (also since 3/4 of their customers are outside of the UK...)


Well how very self centered and mercenary of you, personally I would rather pay the higher price and support local talent and workers and the UK economy.
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka




Obispudkenobi wrote:
bananathug wrote:
The numbers in the post are good but the conclusions are just, like, your opinion, man...

As a US customer I'd rather GW use some of them offshore accounts and save me 10-15% they could be saving in taxes, make their stuff in china/3rd world and knock another 15-20% off. Those are the customer concerns I'd like to see them address (also since 3/4 of their customers are outside of the UK...)


Well how very self centered and mercenary of you, personally I would rather pay the higher price and support local talent and workers and the UK economy.


Don't you mean China? Funny the last time I bought something from GW they were made in China. So how is that helping your economy? Lots of GW stuff is not made in UK anymore. Lot of it is in China now. So another excuse just like "what about the moulds" for high prices, because stuff being made in UK.

Funny, when things are done to make cheaper, prices go up. Every excuse GW made and said prices would go down if X happened, prices actually increased.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/13 01:45:31


Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.

Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?

Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".  
   
Made in us
Ruthless Interrogator







Obispudkenobi wrote:
bananathug wrote:
The numbers in the post are good but the conclusions are just, like, your opinion, man...

As a US customer I'd rather GW use some of them offshore accounts and save me 10-15% they could be saving in taxes, make their stuff in china/3rd world and knock another 15-20% off. Those are the customer concerns I'd like to see them address (also since 3/4 of their customers are outside of the UK...)


Well how very self centered and mercenary of you, personally I would rather pay the higher price and support local talent and workers and the UK economy.


Not only that, but he's also making the huge assumption, if they did those things they'd pass the savings on to the customer. If they were to do those things they wouldn't be in the business of passing those savings on. That was the whole point made in that reddit post.

You can never beat your first time. The second generation is shinier, stronger, faster and superior in every regard save one, and it's an unfair criticism to level, but it simply can't be as original. - Andy Chambers, on the evolution of Games Workshop games
 
   
Made in ca
Posts with Authority




I'm from the future. The future of space

One additional good side of GW not out sourcing is they are not evading the environmental costs and are not polluting as much as factories in countries with little or no environmental regulations.

Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better. 
   
Made in gb
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Devon, UK

 frozenwastes wrote:
One additional good side of GW not out sourcing is they are not evading the environmental costs and are not polluting as much as factories in countries with little or no environmental regulations.


Thats quite a simple way of looking at it. Sure, their factory might be less polluting, but then they're also transporting tonnes of plastic to it from where? Once the product is finished, is it adding miles to its logistical journey by starting in the UK instead of another location? If they had a factory in China, could they be using their influence to encourage cleaner practices?

Obviously I don't have the information to answer these questions, but it is an assumption (albeit a provable one potentially) that it is a net environmental positive.

The reality is likely they put a postive spin on UK manufacture once they decided that Chinese manufacture didn't give them the iron grip on their IP that they so frequently exhibit, and that anything apparently virtuous as result is a happy accident.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in ca
Posts with Authority




I'm from the future. The future of space

People didn't close down their factories and move them to jurisdictions with no environmental laws in order to use their influence to encourage the spread of environmentalism. They did it so they could pollute with impunity. In the 80s and 90s the western world was increasing their requirements and companies off shored specifically to avoid the costs of being green. For some businesses the cost savings are as big a factor was the labour cost savings. Right now in the world 90%+ of ocean pollution comes from ten rivers. None of which are in Europe or North America.

If you move your production to Asia you get to have your waste dumped in those rivers and then it goes in the ocean. That's the point of moving production there. No laws, no having to recycle or process. Just dump it. In the UK GW has to meet some of the most stringent standards when it comes to their manufacturing waste. They can't just dump it in the River Trent and have it flow into the North Sea. Instead the companies are doing the same thing to these Asian and African rivers as they did to the Trent from 1880 to 1970. But at a truly global scale. Kudos to any company that doesn't participate in that when they easily could and would make a profit doing so.

It took 50 years with some very strong regulations and operating treatment plants for the Trent to become safe to drink again (though just barely). I don't know if the billion or so poorest people around the 10 major rivers in Asia and Africa will ever get their clean water back.

But hey, if GW out sourced we could get cheaper plastic orks, right?

This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2019/07/13 15:57:57


Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better. 
   
Made in gb
Resentful Grot With a Plan



UK

As far as I can tell, the stuff made in China is terrain and printing some of the cards and books. I think all of the non-terrain models are made at the factory in Nottingham, UK. Please correct me if I'm wrong!

I won't try to justify the price rises, but I am at least interested in how they decided to raise the price on certain kits and not others - e.g. very odd that the Chaos Land Raider used to be £1 more than the standard Land Raider, but it is still the same price while the old Land Raider went up by £5!

I think this sentence from the above explains it: "every time GW make a production run of Eldar troops or Drukhari, that's machinery and staff that could be making Intercessors or Chaos Marines". So, rather than raising prices on slow-selling older products, I think they have actually been raising prices on relatively popular older products so that they don't waste current production time on cheap stuff. Perhaps also on stuff that is running low in stock at the GW warehouse at the moment and is due for a new production run soon, even if it doesn't sell very quickly.

For the older stuff that didn't go up in price, perhaps it is just things for which they already have plenty of stock (either because it doesn't sell very quickly or because they over-produced at some point and still have a lot left)? That's the best explanation I can come up with.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/07/13 15:09:05


 
   
Made in ca
Posts with Authority




I'm from the future. The future of space

If GW charges $50 for a three sprue 10 model kit and they need to stop making that in order to produce a three sprue 10 model kit that only sells for $30 then they're going to have the same costs but bring in less money. If the newer kit was priced at $50 in order to meet their goals then they pretty much have to do something with the $30 price in order to meet their same goals.

Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better. 
   
Made in gb
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Devon, UK

 frozenwastes wrote:
People didn't close down their factories and move them to jurisdictions with no environmental laws in order to use their influence to encourage the spread of environmentalism. They did it so they could pollute with impunity. In the 80s and 90s the western world was increasing their requirements and companies off shored specifically to avoid the costs of being green. For some businesses the cost savings are as big a factor was the labour cost savings. Right now in the world 90%+ of ocean pollution comes from ten rivers. None of which are in Europe or North America.

If you move your production to Asia you get to have your waste dumped in those rivers and then it goes in the ocean. That's the point of moving production there. No laws, no having to recycle or process. Just dump it. In the UK GW has to meet some of the most stringent standards when it comes to their manufacturing waste. They can't just dump it in the River Trent and have it flow into the North Sea. Instead the companies are doing the same thing to these Asian and African rivers as they did to the Trent from 1880 to 1970. But at a truly global scale. Kudos to any company that doesn't participate in that when they easily could and would make a profit doing so.

It took 50 years with some very strong regulations and operating treatment plants for the Trent to become safe to drink again (though just barely). I don't know if the billion or so poorest people around the 10 major rivers in Asia and Africa will ever get their clean water back.

But hey, if GW out sourced we could get cheaper plastic orks, right?


Except that isn't the case any more. Companies are being held to account for their decisions with regard to labour and environmental impact when outsourcing manufacture. Many companies have affected change as a result, because the optics are incredibly negative. I'm not for one second suggesting this they've done it out of the goodness of their hearts, but they've done it because not doing it threatens their bottom line.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
OrkPlayer137 wrote:

"every time GW make a production run of Eldar troops or Drukhari, that's machinery and staff that could be making Intercessors or Chaos Marines."


Yes, this is called opportunity cost and is a big deal. It isn't a financial cost, but it is something that needs to be managed nevertheless.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/13 17:33:58


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran




 Azreal13 wrote:
OrkPlayer137 wrote:

"every time GW make a production run of Eldar troops or Drukhari, that's machinery and staff that could be making Intercessors or Chaos Marines."


Yes, this is called opportunity cost and is a big deal. It isn't a financial cost, but it is something that needs to be managed nevertheless.
How big of an issues that even? If I remember correctly a few years ago it was mentioned somewhere (Yearly report, Games Day interview/presentation?) that a box/blister makes most of its sales in the first half year of release (or something extremely lopsided like that). Meaning that most of the "old stuff" that's being sold later in such cases is probably just sitting is their warehouse from its initial production run to be picked when needed. GW most probably don't have somebody sitting in front of a terminal, eagerly waiting for that one order so that they can put the old mould into the machine and make a sprue, box it, and ship it.

I also remember that there was a moment when GW were under- and/or overproducing stuff for a while. They probably make hundreds or thousands of a box if they really need it. Would anything less be even worth it for them? Making two dozen sprues and packing them? That stuff is probably just marked as unavailable until there's some real demand (and they don't have their bits service anymore). If something old is in demand then it should generate somewhat significant sales. I know GW had some production issues recently (couldn't fulfil demand) but before that it never looked like there was much opportunity cost to think about. If they had to produce something old then there seemed to be a slot in their schedule for it at some point. What would have been the alternative to think about here? Produce some newer and more expensive box that they have already enough of and that's not in demand just to fill a slot in their schedule with a higher priced product?
   
Made in us
Wicked Canoptek Wraith




Sentient Void

GW products would be more affordable if they went back to metal. Plastic surgery is expensive.

They’ll say it’s not your time. They’ll say wait your turn. They’ll say the odds are long. They’ll say it can’t be done. But America’s story has always been written by people who can see what can be, unburdened by what has been. 
   
Made in gb
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Devon, UK

Mario wrote:
 Azreal13 wrote:
OrkPlayer137 wrote:

"every time GW make a production run of Eldar troops or Drukhari, that's machinery and staff that could be making Intercessors or Chaos Marines."


Yes, this is called opportunity cost and is a big deal. It isn't a financial cost, but it is something that needs to be managed nevertheless.
How big of an issues that even?


Until they figure out quantum physics and make it possible for two things to happen in the same time and space, massive. Literally everything you do is sacrificing an opportunity to do something else, and nobody has limitless time, space or resources.

Things get progressively less obvious the further up the chain you go, until some things essentially only get to you because they're a coin flip, with no obvious good or bad option. Thing is, once you pursue one, you'll never be able to go back and try the other to see if you made the right call.

Stuff like allocating machine time can be fairly elementary, but it gets a lot more complex than that.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in jp
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Davor wrote:
Obispudkenobi wrote:
bananathug wrote:
The numbers in the post are good but the conclusions are just, like, your opinion, man...

As a US customer I'd rather GW use some of them offshore accounts and save me 10-15% they could be saving in taxes, make their stuff in china/3rd world and knock another 15-20% off. Those are the customer concerns I'd like to see them address (also since 3/4 of their customers are outside of the UK...)


Well how very self centered and mercenary of you, personally I would rather pay the higher price and support local talent and workers and the UK economy.


Don't you mean China? Funny the last time I bought something from GW they were made in China. So how is that helping your economy? Lots of GW stuff is not made in UK anymore. Lot of it is in China now. So another excuse just like "what about the moulds" for high prices, because stuff being made in UK.

Funny, when things are done to make cheaper, prices go up. Every excuse GW made and said prices would go down if X happened, prices actually increased.


Books and card yes. Miniatures(gw main profit source) in uk


Automatically Appended Next Post:
bananathug wrote:
The numbers in the post are good but the conclusions are just, like, your opinion, man...

As a US customer I'd rather GW use some of them offshore accounts and save me 10-15% they could be saving in taxes, make their stuff in china/3rd world and knock another 15-20% off. Those are the customer concerns I'd like to see them address (also since 3/4 of their customers are outside of the UK...)
.


Of course more companies move tax to themselves the more countries will tax private persons so while you might pay less for miniatures but have less money to spend to begin with

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/14 02:21:01


https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/09/12/tneva82-minas-tirith-vs-isengard/ <- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
 
Forum Index » News & Rumors
Go to: