I can't imagine GW adding a non Primaris model at that point to a loyal SM faction, so I guess GK are out of luck.
Dark Angels could get a Primaris Azrael. I don't feel it is the right environment to bring the Lion. Not enough "drama" in the Psychic Awakening storyline so far.
Daedalus81 wrote: Yup yup. My body is ready. Taking bets on if the new miniature will be for TS or if it will be a loyalist.
Given how the trailer is structured, TS speaker, TS symbol spinning for a while before the other are shown, located on Prospero, it makes me think that this PA might be TS centric, also with the Christmas reveal it might indicate some box that might introduce some new units to an otherwise very limited TS range, it would be a great occasion for GW to break the everything c:sm cycle that has been going on for a while.
But on the other hand, that’s probably wishful thinking and this will be another SM release as a GK/DA supplement with 5-10 pages tops for TS name generator and a couple of relics and strats as the trend so far would suggest
Given how the trailer is structured, TS speaker, TS symbol spinning for a while before the other are shown, located on Prospero, it makes me think that this PA might be TS centric
That's where they get you. Then they punch you in the nuts and steal your case.
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Gadzilla666 wrote: I just hope gk get an enormous buff. Just so gk players can shut up for a minute.
They're using up all the salt. That's csm property.
Given how the trailer is structured, TS speaker, TS symbol spinning for a while before the other are shown, located on Prospero, it makes me think that this PA might be TS centric
That's where they get you. Then they punch you in the nuts and steal your
story wise, I don't think there is anything to gain for GK here. DA even if they lose, will probably get a primaris someone from it.
Wouldn't be suprised if the whole thing started with GK arrived to stop X, magnus blows them up off screen.
Karol wrote: story wise, I don't think there is anything to gain for GK here. DA even if they lose, will probably get a primaris someone from it.
Wouldn't be suprised if the whole thing started with GK arrived to stop X, magnus blows them up off screen.
I think it could be interesting if GK could gain a new character out from this. Afterall, the first GK grandmaster was a loyalist tsons.
My guess DA's will get a new char access to doctrines, a super doctrine, the useal phobos update, new strats , Grey Knights will get some new rules,hopefully a new psykic power list, new strats, new warlord traits, new relics, if they're really lucky they'll get doctrines and super doctrine (or something similer) thousand sons will get new relics, warlord traits, new strats.
BrianDavion wrote: My guess DA's will get a new char access to doctrines, a super doctrine, the useal phobos update, new strats , Grey Knights will get some new rules,hopefully a new psykic power list, new strats, new warlord traits, new relics, if they're really lucky they'll get doctrines and super doctrine (or something similer) thousand sons will get new relics, warlord traits, new strats.
ohh and everyone will get a random names list!
A new lore is almost guaranteed for GK. I wouldn't cry if they gave TS Sects and a spell specific to each.
Karol wrote: story wise, I don't think there is anything to gain for GK here. DA even if they lose, will probably get a primaris someone from it.
Wouldn't be suprised if the whole thing started with GK arrived to stop X, magnus blows them up off screen.
Yes gw please give gk some good rules so this man can make a happy post!
Karol wrote: story wise, I don't think there is anything to gain for GK here. DA even if they lose, will probably get a primaris someone from it.
Wouldn't be suprised if the whole thing started with GK arrived to stop X, magnus blows them up off screen.
I think it could be interesting if GK could gain a new character out from this. Afterall, the first GK grandmaster was a loyalist tsons.
Oh I hope it is going to be interesting, and stuff is going to happen. I just don't see how GK could score any win here. If we do, then we banish magnus and he can't enter the real space for 999years. And I really have my doubts, GW would allow something like that to happen. I fully expect lore for a brotherhood of some sort, and it getting wiped out . Maybe they will get a doctrine of their own, specific psychic powers, stratagems and brotherhood specfic relics. There is close to zero chance for a new models, so new model is not going to happen. Or it is going to be something like character NDK. I just hope it is going to be enough, after the CA point costs changes am rather jaded. Specially when now I understand what "around X points" means for GW.
Karol wrote: story wise, I don't think there is anything to gain for GK here. DA even if they lose, will probably get a primaris someone from it.
Wouldn't be suprised if the whole thing started with GK arrived to stop X, magnus blows them up off screen.
Yes gw please give gk some good rules so this man can make a happy post!
This is set up for maximum salt. TS and GK get a couple relics, traits and strats maybe a spell. Dark Angels get full supplement treatment.
Karol wrote: story wise, I don't think there is anything to gain for GK here. DA even if they lose, will probably get a primaris someone from it.
Wouldn't be suprised if the whole thing started with GK arrived to stop X, magnus blows them up off screen.
Yes gw please give gk some good rules so this man can make a happy post!
This is set up for maximum salt. TS and GK get a couple relics, traits and strats maybe a spell. Dark Angels get full supplement treatment.
I wouldn't expect anything less than what an individual CSM legion got in F&F. I know it's a great way to set myself up for disappointment though.
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BrianDavion wrote: GK need something more then anyone else, that said even just a new psyker school would go a long way I think. partiuclarly if it was a GOOD ONE.
Very much this. They should have at least 3 lores at their disposal, but two is better than what they have now. Then they could at least flex their casting ability without leaning back on short range smites (and characters to buff range).
Maybe 1ksons constructs, like non fleshy oblits? Or more units of 1ksons librarians , maybe that get extra psychic powers or get stronger powers when they are in a group. Kind of a like that 18W model for SoB.
Hard to think of where a new model could fit for 1ksons. Maybe a psychic dread? Thousand Son's problems are mostly the same as all Chaos Marines. They need a better trait, and then all chaos needs something to catch them up to the power of Doctrines and Super Doctrines. But Chaos hasn't gotten that so far. So my guess is Thousand Sons will get Warlord Traits, Doctrines, and Relics, but it won't be enough to let them be what they are supposed to be (Ie, Rubrics will still not be worth using as your core troops.)
If they got stuff more like they have in 30k rules, it'd be great. But then they'll be breaking the established pattern for Chaos so far.
I believe it - GW won't allow any Marine sub class, no matter how popular, to lag behind their OP brethren.
As for the release, I couldn't care less. Cloaked Marine or Egyptian themed Marine? Yawn.
Wanna bet on gk primaris?
GW already said this year that GK are not going to get primaris, and that they aren't planning any GK primaris. Considering that models seem to be designed years in advance, and rules need months to get writen and approved, I doubt we could see primaris GK before 2021 or even 2022.
And so as three power-armour factions prepare to duke it out, I pour myself a hefty cup of coffee lest these new levels of innovation render me comatose with excitement.
vipoid wrote: And so as three power-armour factions prepare to duke it out, I pour myself a hefty cup of coffee lest these new levels of innovation render me comatose with excitement.
Given the page counts devoted to (Marine) rules - it seems the lore writters had the same idea.
I believe it - GW won't allow any Marine sub class, no matter how popular, to lag behind their OP brethren.
As for the release, I couldn't care less. Cloaked Marine or Egyptian themed Marine? Yawn.
Wanna bet on gk primaris?
Considering that Grey Knights basically use two model box for basically 80% of their unit roaster, releasing a Primaris version of both would basically allow a reboot of the entire line without a hitch. They just need bigger terminators and bigger power armors, bump their profile and there you go Primaris Grey Knight. I don't see why Grey Knights, who were supposed to be the very best Space Marines, would not get the gene enhancement and become, the weakest Space Marines.
Drudge Dreadnought wrote: Hard to think of where a new model could fit for 1ksons. Maybe a psychic dread? Thousand Son's problems are mostly the same as all Chaos Marines. They need a better trait, and then all chaos needs something to catch them up to the power of Doctrines and Super Doctrines. But Chaos hasn't gotten that so far. So my guess is Thousand Sons will get Warlord Traits, Doctrines, and Relics, but it won't be enough to let them be what they are supposed to be (Ie, Rubrics will still not be worth using as your core troops.)
If they got stuff more like they have in 30k rules, it'd be great. But then they'll be breaking the established pattern for Chaos so far.
This is incorrect. Chaos does not need caught up to the power of doctrines and super doctrines and neither does anyone else. The game is already too lethal, making it more lethal isn't going to help anything. Marine Codex 2.0 and friends need a full errata to bring them down to the level everyone else is at right now, not the other way around.
Drudge Dreadnought wrote: Hard to think of where a new model could fit for 1ksons. Maybe a psychic dread? Thousand Son's problems are mostly the same as all Chaos Marines. They need a better trait, and then all chaos needs something to catch them up to the power of Doctrines and Super Doctrines. But Chaos hasn't gotten that so far. So my guess is Thousand Sons will get Warlord Traits, Doctrines, and Relics, but it won't be enough to let them be what they are supposed to be (Ie, Rubrics will still not be worth using as your core troops.)
If they got stuff more like they have in 30k rules, it'd be great. But then they'll be breaking the established pattern for Chaos so far.
This is incorrect. Chaos does not need caught up to the power of doctrines and super doctrines and neither does anyone else. The game is already too lethal, making it more lethal isn't going to help anything. Marine Codex 2.0 and friends need a full errata to bring them down to the level everyone else is at right now, not the other way around.
Yeah but we know that isn't going to happen. Best we can hope for is for others to get more special rules, including defensive boosts.
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
GK might get some new strategems or whatnot.
What they need is a real overhaul and such a book cannot achieve this as we have seem from the books released so far.
You can complain about the overall balance, but I felt that 5th edition armies had a lot of flavour and customisation in their books. It was definitely a step up from the likes of Chaos 4th edition.
Just as 3.5 has doomed us, GK and Nob Bikers must pay their decades long penance for their time in the sun. Eldar somehow avoid this with their prescience.
Drudge Dreadnought wrote: Hard to think of where a new model could fit for 1ksons. Maybe a psychic dread? Thousand Son's problems are mostly the same as all Chaos Marines. They need a better trait, and then all chaos needs something to catch them up to the power of Doctrines and Super Doctrines. But Chaos hasn't gotten that so far. So my guess is Thousand Sons will get Warlord Traits, Doctrines, and Relics, but it won't be enough to let them be what they are supposed to be (Ie, Rubrics will still not be worth using as your core troops.)
If they got stuff more like they have in 30k rules, it'd be great. But then they'll be breaking the established pattern for Chaos so far.
This is incorrect. Chaos does not need caught up to the power of doctrines and super doctrines and neither does anyone else. The game is already too lethal, making it more lethal isn't going to help anything. Marine Codex 2.0 and friends need a full errata to bring them down to the level everyone else is at right now, not the other way around.
I believe it - GW won't allow any Marine sub class, no matter how popular, to lag behind their OP brethren.
As for the release, I couldn't care less. Cloaked Marine or Egyptian themed Marine? Yawn.
GK have been lagging behind how many years now? Were they even good at 7th ed? 6th ed? At least in 5th ed they were briefly good.
Lagging behind is maybe not the right notion.
Its a small elite army and it always has been.
It requires a capable general to obtain good results.
I'm not complaining much about the elite state.
I'm more concerned about the pt costs say of the GKSS, 21 pts before, when compared with Primaris, 17 pts.
Dunno, honestly it could be anything, considering GK are loyalists and the theme sofar for PA was loyalists get more out of it then not-loyalists and or xenos, it could quite possibly be anything.
Hopefully it is SOMETHING, decent enough to make GK see a battlefield once a blue moon again, not like what they did with other armies.
Otoh, it is GW; watch them throwing established design overboard and TS getting basically a second wave whilest SW and GK get nothing, except another Wolf Wolf Wolf thingy, this time a particularry harry Primaris?
I believe it - GW won't allow any Marine sub class, no matter how popular, to lag behind their OP brethren.
As for the release, I couldn't care less. Cloaked Marine or Egyptian themed Marine? Yawn.
GK have been lagging behind how many years now? Were they even good at 7th ed? 6th ed? At least in 5th ed they were briefly good.
Lagging behind is maybe not the right notion.
Its a small elite army and it always has been.
It requires a capable general to obtain good results.
I'm not complaining much about the elite state.
I'm more concerned about the pt costs say of the GKSS, 21 pts before, when compared with Primaris, 17 pts.
That "requires capable general" bs is just bs excuse. The GK's are just plain bad. They are so bad that the index orks felt terribly sorry for them while crunching over them to victory(GK's were about only army index orks could beat in straight killing and not just on objectives...)
yeah I doubt it'll be primaris grey knights mostly because I just suspect it's too soon for a new primaris wave, my gut feeling is it'll be the standard supplement level material we've been getting in most of the books so far. I mean so far EVERY army has gotten some new relics, strats and warlord traits ohh and most importantly a random name generator! can't forget that (Eldar and Dark Eldar unfortunatly share those via Ynnari and doesn't really count I agree, but I can see someone at GW thinking it does)
An Actual Englishman wrote: I've heard no rumours of new models for GK. The 'ton' of stuff I mentioned earlier were rules and a boost in power.
The marine meta wouldn't be complete without every snowflake chapter/sub-faction of marine getting the OP treatment now, would it?
Now will you still be as salty when the GK rules amendments still suck compared to everyone else, or will it be "oh well GK aren't codex marines"?
Salty? You misunderstand me. I'm bored to the point of apathy now. My response will be the same regardless - 'I don't care because I don't know anyone who plays the faction and I couldn't care less for the most Mary Sue of Mary Sues myself, so I'll never be buying them'.
Drudge Dreadnought wrote: Hard to think of where a new model could fit for 1ksons. Maybe a psychic dread? Thousand Son's problems are mostly the same as all Chaos Marines. They need a better trait, and then all chaos needs something to catch them up to the power of Doctrines and Super Doctrines. But Chaos hasn't gotten that so far. So my guess is Thousand Sons will get Warlord Traits, Doctrines, and Relics, but it won't be enough to let them be what they are supposed to be (Ie, Rubrics will still not be worth using as your core troops.)
If they got stuff more like they have in 30k rules, it'd be great. But then they'll be breaking the established pattern for Chaos so far.
This is incorrect. Chaos does not need caught up to the power of doctrines and super doctrines and neither does anyone else. The game is already too lethal, making it more lethal isn't going to help anything. Marine Codex 2.0 and friends need a full errata to bring them down to the level everyone else is at right now, not the other way around.
Yeah but we know that isn't going to happen. Best we can hope for is for others to get more special rules, including defensive boosts.
tneva82 wrote: Yeah and I'm sure pigs fly any moment soon now.
Salty? You misunderstand me. I'm bored to the point of apathy now. My response will be the same regardless - 'I don't care because I don't know anyone who plays the faction and I couldn't care less for the most Mary Sue of Mary Sues myself, so I'll never be buying them'.
Maybe no one is playing them, because they have, you know, kind of a bad rules, and from what people say this isn't just this edition, but other editions before it too?
What are you talking about? Try to keep up - we're discussing current releases and the current meta. Past editions have nothing to do with it.
I think that if GW rule writers botch the rules of an army, over and over again it very much has an impact on how the game for that faction looks like now. If GK are bottom tier for multiple editions, then there aren't going to be many people buying their models. Which means GW is not going to care to work on them, because "no one plays them". But to all people that do play them this ia a huge problem. Because instead of getting real updated, new models and good new rules, they are getting copy paste books, just so GW design team can get over with them fast, and start working on "real" armies that sell well.
An Actual Englishman wrote: I've heard no rumours of new models for GK. The 'ton' of stuff I mentioned earlier were rules and a boost in power.
The marine meta wouldn't be complete without every snowflake chapter/sub-faction of marine getting the OP treatment now, would it?
Now will you still be as salty when the GK rules amendments still suck compared to everyone else, or will it be "oh well GK aren't codex marines"?
Salty? You misunderstand me. I'm bored to the point of apathy now. My response will be the same regardless - 'I don't care because I don't know anyone who plays the faction and I couldn't care less for the most Mary Sue of Mary Sues myself, so I'll never be buying them'.
wuestenfux wrote: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
GK might get some new strategems or whatnot.
What they need is a real overhaul and such a book cannot achieve this as we have seem from the books released so far.
Looking at BA it shows GW is clearly capable of putting all the things GK might need into PA.
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Ordana wrote: The one thing that seems certain is that DA will get a full supplement treatment while GK and TS get scraps.
Why is it certainGK will get scraps? I don't deny the possibility, but do you have some outside source of info?
wuestenfux wrote: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
GK might get some new strategems or whatnot.
What they need is a real overhaul and such a book cannot achieve this as we have seem from the books released so far.
Looking at BA it shows GW is clearly capable of putting all the things GK might need into PA.
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Ordana wrote: The one thing that seems certain is that DA will get a full supplement treatment while GK and TS get scraps.
Why is it certainGK will get scraps? I don't deny the possibility, but do you have some outside source of info?
It's not a certainty, just a trend. None of the other factions in the books thus far have had the levels of attention and detail that the core marine ranges have had. Dark Angels clearly need the same level of treatment to be on parity with the other marine books and it's expected they'll recevie it. Nothing to say Grey Knights will be sidelined, it's just expected they will be as the books have been very main-range-marine centric so far whilst other factions have had less attention.
A couple of users have mentioned that there are rumors about GK getting some major buffs in some way.
Where did you find them?
I've looked, but couldn't find any mention of them anywhere.
Hrothgarmr wrote: A couple of users have mentioned that there are rumors about GK getting some major buffs in some way.
Where did you find them?
I've looked, but couldn't find any mention of them anywhere.
GW said major buffs to GK multiple times. It is not certain what they think major means though. For example this CA, strikes droped a lot in points, at a glance it is awesome, until you notice that nemezis weapons that were free before now cost 1pts, so if you take 2 falchions, the drop isn't suddenly that big. Specially if you don't use power armoured models, as the drop on termintors is much smaller.
But GMs cost 20pts less and regular NDK are only 100pts, without weapons. Land raiders are cheaper. But the army still feels strange, there is no good stuff or stuff you want to use because it has interesting rules or good interactions. It is just more models and playing with hope that the opposing army Doesn't have the ability to kill stuff real fast. Which may even be true, If your main opponent is necron or sisters, it may actually work. But if your local meta has a lot of marines, that are ultra efficient and killing stuff, it just turns in to a grind where you probably lose at the end of turn 3, begining of 4, instead of the usual turn 2-3.
Hrothgarmr wrote: A couple of users have mentioned that there are rumors about GK getting some major buffs in some way.
Where did you find them?
I've looked, but couldn't find any mention of them anywhere.
GW said major buffs to GK multiple times. It is not certain what they think major means though. For example this CA, strikes droped a lot in points, at a glance it is awesome, until you notice that nemezis weapons that were free before now cost 1pts, so if you take 2 falchions, the drop isn't suddenly that big. Specially if you don't use power armoured models, as the drop on termintors is much smaller.
But GMs cost 20pts less and regular NDK are only 100pts, without weapons. Land raiders are cheaper. But the army still feels strange, there is no good stuff or stuff you want to use because it has interesting rules or good interactions. It is just more models and playing with hope that the opposing army Doesn't have the ability to kill stuff real fast. Which may even be true, If your main opponent is necron or sisters, it may actually work. But if your local meta has a lot of marines, that are ultra efficient and killing stuff, it just turns in to a grind where you probably lose at the end of turn 3, begining of 4, instead of the usual turn 2-3.
I don't think GW has said that at all. Unless it was on FB and it got missed? Or do you mean the preview articles in CA where they mentioned GK?
Interceptors are down 4. Purgation down 5. Purifiers down 5. Terminators are down 7 and their Psycannons and Psilencers down 4. Dreadfists are down 15 & Dread CCws by 20.
GW did a little favor making Nemesis weapons cost 1 point and dropping units this much, because of sentences like this:
"For every fivemodels in the unit, one Interceptor may replace his Nemesis force sword and storm bolter with an item from the Special Weapons list."
Previously you paid the base cost PLUS the cost of the special even as you lost the Nemesis weapon. Now your purgations spit 24 DD3 and 4 D1 S4 AP0 for 89 points.
You can teleport in 3 gun-less NDKs for 375 or kick Daemonhammers onto them for 405.
If you pick up a lore and some properly costed stratagems you're dangerously close to a good army.
a_typical_hero wrote: I can't imagine GW adding a non Primaris model at that point to a loyal SM faction, so I guess GK are out of luck.
Dark Angels could get a Primaris Azrael. I don't feel it is the right environment to bring the Lion. Not enough "drama" in the Psychic Awakening storyline so far.
Thousand Sons all have fairly recent models.
Really hard to tell who it is going to be.
If any primarch will come back in PA, it will be Sangunius. Why are the Tyrannids to intent on taking Baal? They want Primarch genetic material and Baal is where they can get it. Sangunius is one of the few loyalist primarchs we know the location of, even if it's just his corpse. We know where the Lion is but no one else does, and the IH might have one of ferrus's arms or head or something, but the others might as well not exist. It would be cool if Sanginius's body gets eaten and he comes back as a Tyranid organism. Or he could get resurrected at the last minute by some knife-ears. It would be interesting if he came back as a real psyker instead of the weak premonition ability he had before, it would give a meaning to the name psychic awakening.
Still, it doesn't look like the BA are on the defensive, they are eliminating the nids not swept away by the great rift.
I don't think GW has said that at all. Unless it was on FB and it got missed? Or do you mean the preview articles in CA where they mentioned GK?
Interceptors are down 4. Purgation down 5. Purifiers down 5. Terminators are down 7 and their Psycannons and Psilencers down 4. Dreadfists are down 15 & Dread CCws by 20.
GW did a little favor making Nemesis weapons cost 1 point and dropping units this much, because of sentences like this:
"For every fivemodels in the unit, one Interceptor may replace his Nemesis force sword and storm bolter with an item from the Special Weapons list."
Previously you paid the base cost PLUS the cost of the special even as you lost the Nemesis weapon. Now your purgations spit 24 DD3 and 4 D1 S4 AP0 for 89 points.
You can teleport in 3 gun-less NDKs for 375 or kick Daemonhammers onto them for 405.
If you pick up a lore and some properly costed stratagems you're dangerously close to a good army.
I have one unit of interceptors and it had only models with stormbolters, so I never had problems with paying for a nemezis the model doesn't have.
The changes help my termintors very little, same with paladins. It maybe buffs an army in power armour, but even if I had the money to buy a new GK army out of power armoured units, I wouldn't. I would just go out and buy normal marines. Unless GK plans to lower the price of GK boxs.
On top of it they just made both my dreads illegal to play, I think, so now I have 400pts off 2000pts. Am not going to be able to play right now.
Drudge Dreadnought wrote: Hard to think of where a new model could fit for 1ksons. Maybe a psychic dread? Thousand Son's problems are mostly the same as all Chaos Marines. They need a better trait, and then all chaos needs something to catch them up to the power of Doctrines and Super Doctrines. But Chaos hasn't gotten that so far. So my guess is Thousand Sons will get Warlord Traits, Doctrines, and Relics, but it won't be enough to let them be what they are supposed to be (Ie, Rubrics will still not be worth using as your core troops.)
If they got stuff more like they have in 30k rules, it'd be great. But then they'll be breaking the established pattern for Chaos so far.
This is incorrect. Chaos does not need caught up to the power of doctrines and super doctrines and neither does anyone else. The game is already too lethal, making it more lethal isn't going to help anything. Marine Codex 2.0 and friends need a full errata to bring them down to the level everyone else is at right now, not the other way around.
Yeah but we know that isn't going to happen. Best we can hope for is for others to get more special rules, including defensive boosts.
tneva82 wrote: Yeah and I'm sure pigs fly any moment soon now.
At least you both acknowledged that I'm right.
What the game really needs is for statlines to be re-written for 8th ed. Most of our problems come from changing major game systems without changing statlines. But they won't do that, so the next best option is to layer tons of special rules on top. Its bloated, but it gets us there, and it means we can have differences between subfactions by using slightly different rules. I'd rather everyone have 2 part traits and doctrine equivalents than them all being crappy 1 part traits like we had earlier in 8th.
I don't think GW has said that at all. Unless it was on FB and it got missed? Or do you mean the preview articles in CA where they mentioned GK?
Interceptors are down 4. Purgation down 5. Purifiers down 5. Terminators are down 7 and their Psycannons and Psilencers down 4. Dreadfists are down 15 & Dread CCws by 20.
GW did a little favor making Nemesis weapons cost 1 point and dropping units this much, because of sentences like this:
"For every fivemodels in the unit, one Interceptor may replace his Nemesis force sword and storm bolter with an item from the Special Weapons list."
Previously you paid the base cost PLUS the cost of the special even as you lost the Nemesis weapon. Now your purgations spit 24 DD3 and 4 D1 S4 AP0 for 89 points.
You can teleport in 3 gun-less NDKs for 375 or kick Daemonhammers onto them for 405.
If you pick up a lore and some properly costed stratagems you're dangerously close to a good army.
I have one unit of interceptors and it had only models with stormbolters, so I never had problems with paying for a nemezis the model doesn't have.
The changes help my termintors very little, same with paladins. It maybe buffs an army in power armour, but even if I had the money to buy a new GK army out of power armoured units, I wouldn't. I would just go out and buy normal marines. Unless GK plans to lower the price of GK boxs.
On top of it they just made both my dreads illegal to play, I think, so now I have 400pts off 2000pts. Am not going to be able to play right now.
we've known legends was coming for a looong time Karol, and we KNEW rifleman dreads where going to end up on legends. so this isn't something sudden.
Honestly from what you've said it sounds like you bought a used GK army after the 7th edition codex hit, and have pretty much only ever used that with no adjustments?
Karol also said he usually doesn't play in tournaments, so his Dreadnoughts should be perfectly fine. But I guess he'll answer that with the notion of having the worst gaming group imaginable consisting of TFGWAAC players exclusively.
Sgt. Cortez wrote: Karol also said he usually doesn't play in tournaments, so his Dreadnoughts should be perfectly fine. But I guess he'll answer that with the notion of having the worst gaming group imaginable consisting of TFGWAAC players exclusively.
yeah despite not being a tourny player I assume he plays in a "toxic tourny enviroment"
I hope that the big reveal is the Dark Angels finally turn traitor instead of being all closeted about it, mainly because I want to see the salt from all the DA players who have denied it all these years
An Actual Englishman wrote: What are you talking about? Try to keep up - we're discussing current releases and the current meta. Past editions have nothing to do with it.
That your claim GK's are being treated with same OP treatment is just plain flat out lying wrong. GW has never been treating all marines with OP treatment. Not even in this edition. In case you haven't noticed GK's have been even in this edition pretty much the worst faction in the game.
Where's that OP treatment you claim? If you were correct GK's would be OP right now. After all this isn't past edition. This is NOW. Where GK's suck. They are so bad that even index orks felt sorry for them.
But it doesn't fit your narrative so you ignore all the evidence and splutter out more incorrect garbage.
An Actual Englishman wrote: What are you talking about? Try to keep up - we're discussing current releases and the current meta. Past editions have nothing to do with it.
That your claim GK's are being treated with same OP treatment is just plain flat out lying wrong. GW has never been treating all marines with OP treatment. Not even in this edition. In case you haven't noticed GK's have been even in this edition pretty much the worst faction in the game.
Where's that OP treatment you claim? If you were correct GK's would be OP right now. After all this isn't past edition. This is NOW. Where GK's suck. They are so bad that even index orks felt sorry for them.
But it doesn't fit your narrative so you ignore all the evidence and splutter out more incorrect garbage.
You might want to read my post again - in your eagerness to attack me it seems you’ve failed to comprehend what I actually said.
I have nowhere claimed that GK are currently OP - what I actually said is that GWwere likely going to make them OP because GW loves all things Marines. Now calm yourself and stop sputtering incorrect garbage.
BrianDavion wrote: even with doctrines and a super doctrine Grey Knights wouldn't be all that great. their tool kit is just too limited
This is exactly what people said about Marines until their recent performances.
E - and let’s not downplay that supplement level rules are a lot more than just ‘doctrines and super doctrines’. It’s also new psychic trees, new data sheets, data sheet adjustments, new stratagems, new relics, special issue wargear etc etc
BrianDavion wrote: even with doctrines and a super doctrine Grey Knights wouldn't be all that great. their tool kit is just too limited
This is exactly what people said about Marines until their recent performances.
How many Units does C:SM have, how many GK.
The toolbox on codex C:SM is quite a bit bigger imo. That said, depending on the super doctrine and or doctrines it is quite possibe for GK to get into the really problematic territory, HOWEVER, i 'd doubt that they reach IH levels.
BrianDavion wrote: even with doctrines and a super doctrine Grey Knights wouldn't be all that great. their tool kit is just too limited
This is exactly what people said about Marines until their recent performances.
How many Units does C:SM have, how many GK.
The toolbox on codex C:SM is quite a bit bigger imo. That said, depending on the super doctrine and or doctrines it is quite possibe for GK to get into the really problematic territory, HOWEVER, i 'd doubt that they reach IH levels.
Units aren’t the only tools open to factions now. Stratagems, relics, special issue wargear and psychic powers are all tools and they are all extended with supplement level content.
I’ve heard that GK get ‘more love’ from PA because GW is well aware of their awful, almost meme worthy performance, 8th edition so far. My guess is that GW go way over the top because they love their Marines but we will see.
BrianDavion wrote: Grey Knights for example lack a good source of heavy ranged firepower which seems to be a requirement for a codex to do well
Well, this is not their fighting doctrine.
It's more close and personal with storm bolters, power weapons, and psychic powers.
right, essentially their entire army is "infantry with stormbolters and swords" there's just not much varity to do much else. which hurts them in an edition that so favors massed firepower at range
BrianDavion wrote: Grey Knights for example lack a good source of heavy ranged firepower which seems to be a requirement for a codex to do well
Well, this is not their fighting doctrine.
It's more close and personal with storm bolters, power weapons, and psychic powers.
right, essentially their entire army is "infantry with stormbolters and swords" there's just not much varity to do much else. which hurts them in an edition that so favors massed firepower at range
This is how it will be in a real war.
If an infantry battalion needs supporting fire power, it will make a request for a tank company.
Here its the same.
Just add a detachment from your favorite SM chapter.
I guess GK will hardly operate as a whole battalion (in our scale). Similar to Harlies and whatnot.
BrianDavion wrote: Grey Knights for example lack a good source of heavy ranged firepower which seems to be a requirement for a codex to do well
Well, this is not their fighting doctrine.
It's more close and personal with storm bolters, power weapons, and psychic powers.
right, essentially their entire army is "infantry with stormbolters and swords" there's just not much varity to do much else. which hurts them in an edition that so favors massed firepower at range
This is how it will be in a real war.
If an infantry battalion needs supporting fire power, it will make a request for a tank company.
Here its the same.
Just add a detachment from your favorite SM chapter.
I guess GK will hardly operate as a whole battalion (in our scale). Similar to Harlies and whatnot.
well yeah but being told "if you wanna be effective, soup" is disheartening. no matter your army
BrianDavion wrote: Grey Knights for example lack a good source of heavy ranged firepower which seems to be a requirement for a codex to do well
Well, this is not their fighting doctrine.
It's more close and personal with storm bolters, power weapons, and psychic powers.
right, essentially their entire army is "infantry with stormbolters and swords" there's just not much varity to do much else. which hurts them in an edition that so favors massed firepower at range
This is how it will be in a real war.
If an infantry battalion needs supporting fire power, it will make a request for a tank company.
Here its the same.
Just add a detachment from your favorite SM chapter.
I guess GK will hardly operate as a whole battalion (in our scale). Similar to Harlies and whatnot.
well yeah but being told "if you wanna be effective, soup" is disheartening. no matter your army
Indeed, in view of political correctness, stay away from soup.
But if you enter a tourney, soup is the best you could eventually do.
Choosing the best of several worlds.
BrianDavion wrote: Grey Knights for example lack a good source of heavy ranged firepower which seems to be a requirement for a codex to do well
Assault Centurions say hi.
Grey Knights don't have access to assault centurions, and probably won't after this release either.
I'm still wondering why Englishman is still commenting here if he's so bored. Why not wait til Saga of the Beast and then come back and cry why Orks weren't given anything good again.
BrianDavion wrote: Grey Knights for example lack a good source of heavy ranged firepower which seems to be a requirement for a codex to do well
Assault Centurions say hi.
Grey Knights don't have access to assault centurions, and probably won't after this release either.
I'm still wondering why Englishman is still commenting here if he's so bored. Why not wait til Saga of the Beast and then come back and cry why Orks weren't given anything good again.
I was just refuting that long range anti-tank is a necessity for a codex to do well. GK have a lot of stuff that gets personal and does anti-tank well. GK are not a stand back and shoot army.
BrianDavion wrote: Grey Knights for example lack a good source of heavy ranged firepower which seems to be a requirement for a codex to do well
Assault Centurions say hi.
Grey Knights don't have access to assault centurions, and probably won't after this release either.
I'm still wondering why Englishman is still commenting here if he's so bored. Why not wait til Saga of the Beast and then come back and cry why Orks weren't given anything good again.
I was just refuting that long range anti-tank is a necessity for a codex to do well. GK have a lot of stuff that gets personal and does anti-tank well. GK are not a stand back and shoot army.
I think you meant to say:
"I was just refuting that long range anti-tank is a necessity anti-everything and cheap screen are necessities for a codex to do well."
A complete revamp and new codex aren't really that necessary.
GK could be made good from a few key changes. 6-12 new spells, a change to the rule of 1, or normal smite could make them a good army.
_SeeD_ wrote: A complete revamp and new codex aren't really that necessary.
GK could be made good from a few key changes. 6-12 new spells, a change to the rule of 1, or normal smite could make them a good army.
Their possible super doctrine giving them normal smite always on a 5+ (4+ with the +1 to cast) would actually be a huge increase to their output.
_SeeD_ wrote: A complete revamp and new codex aren't really that necessary.
GK could be made good from a few key changes. 6-12 new spells, a change to the rule of 1, or normal smite could make them a good army.
Their possible super doctrine giving them normal smite always on a 5+ (4+ with the +1 to cast) would actually be a huge increase to their output.
While this would be true on the table, fluff-wise GKs are not really known for mowing down all their enemies with mind-bullets (unless it's from a psilencer), as their go-to tactic. Id rather leave that style to 1KSons and Tzeentch.
Psychic powers that buff their close combat, shooting, staying power and movement should be something they can constantly spam (or at least attempt to).
I'm still wondering why Englishman is still commenting here if he's so bored. Why not wait til Saga of the Beast and then come back and cry why Orks weren't given anything good again.
And I’m wondering why you feel the need to post about me at all.
Apathy does not mean a complete disregard for any discussion. I’m entitled to post here as much or as little as I like. Now try to stick to the topic, rather than throwing your sly quips at me.
Units aren’t the only tools open to factions now. Stratagems, relics, special issue wargear and psychic powers are all tools and they are all extended with supplement level content.
I’ve heard that GK get ‘more love’ from PA because GW is well aware of their awful, almost meme worthy performance, 8th edition so far. My guess is that GW go way over the top because they love their Marines but we will see.[i]
So far, that's only been true if said SM army also had Primaris models to push on consumers to buy as well. Based on the 26 months of 8ed attention GW has actually shown towards GK, I seriously dont think its possible for them to go over the top. Well, it's NOT impossible....but the likelihood of that is about the same as GW releasing another Primarch in 8ed/2020...take that how you will and the level of optimism required.
Units aren’t the only tools open to factions now. Stratagems, relics, special issue wargear and psychic powers are all tools and they are all extended with supplement level content.
I’ve heard that GK get ‘more love’ from PA because GW is well aware of their awful, almost meme worthy performance, 8th edition so far. My guess is that GW go way over the top because they love their Marines but we will see.[i]
So far, that's only been true if said SM army also had Primaris models to push on consumers to buy as well. Based on the 26 months of 8ed attention GW has actually shown towards GK, I seriously dont think its possible for them to go over the top. Well, it's NOT impossible....but the likelihood of that is about the same as GW releasing another Primarch in 8ed/2020...take that how you will and the level of optimism required.
I'm only passing on rumours here. Those rumours state that GW recognised GK as underperforming and have given them an appropriate buff to make them more competitive.
Given the way GW reacted to Marines underperforming (to a lesser degree), I can absolutely believe they'd go over the top with GK.
By all means disregard this, or disagree etc. I've given you the rumour and my take on it - that's all. We'll known soon enough.
I suspect GKs will indeed get a sizable buff, but weather or not it'll be the kind of buff needed is questionable. you know GW, they think giving an additional +1 str to the sergent makes a squad of S3 AP-3 attacks useful
BrianDavion wrote: I suspect GKs will indeed get a sizable buff, but weather or not it'll be the kind of buff needed is questionable. you know GW, they think giving an additional +1 str to the sergent makes a squad of S3 AP-3 attacks useful
MAybee more pricecuts, ya know, to sell more models.
BrianDavion wrote: I suspect GKs will indeed get a sizable buff, but weather or not it'll be the kind of buff needed is questionable. you know GW, they think giving an additional +1 str to the sergent makes a squad of S3 AP-3 attacks useful
Well ask any GK player before the CA2018, forget about any rumours and hearsay....GW on their officially website, officially stated "Grey Knights were one of the big winners of Chapter Approved 2018"
Actuality: Nope. STILL at the bottom.
So, fool GK players once with "GK buff hype", shame on you.
Fool GK players twice with "GK buff hype", shame on us (and still also you).
I'm still wondering why Englishman is still commenting here if he's so bored. Why not wait til Saga of the Beast and then come back and cry why Orks weren't given anything good again.
And I’m wondering why you feel the need to post about me at all.
Apathy does not mean a complete disregard for any discussion. I’m entitled to post here as much or as little as I like. Now try to stick to the topic, rather than throwing your sly quips at me.
Just wondering how many times you're going to come on here posting "I don't care"....when obviously you do. That, more than my post, would spare the thread content.
Darsath wrote: You know, for an event called PSYCHIC awakening, it's had very little to do with psychers.
That's on you. It was made clear very early on that it wasn't "Psykers everywhere!", but rather psychic phenomenon occurring.
Ynnari, Drukhari, and Craftworlds getting in scraps? Psychic phenomenon would be happening.
Word Bearers trying to corrupt worlds with daemons? Spoiler: psychic phenomenon!
Tyranids encroaching on Baal, oh you damn well better believe psychic phenomenon.
The marine meta is currently like the knight meta last year. If you're going to an event, you plan for it as your primary opponent. I expect it will be like this for a few months and then maybe April will see a change in some of the overpowering elements, unless a better balance has occurred at major events.
There are 14 marine factions in the game now, get used to MEQ being something that you need an answer to. It would be like going to a tournament without any anti-vehicle. The fact that we didn't care about that profile was the anomaly, now we swinged too hard in the other direction, but we are closer to what it should be.
psipso wrote: I have the gut feeling that will involve the legion of the damned somehow. Just.... because the name.
Perhaps they will let the GK to summon dudes from the legion of the damned like the CSM summon Daemons?
Well they are Marines - so guess thats another Supplement - I mean pretend Campaign book sorted
yeah because grey knights are given soooo much
They have not had their Supplement/Campaign book yet - same as not a single Dynasty, Craftworld, Order, Regiment, Forge World, Coven, Cult, Kulture, Kabal, Troupe etc has had one
was discussing with friend
Greyknights with doctrines,
super doc would probably be assault oriented
but just having doctrines alone would be massive for greyknights
starting round 2, all those 60+ stormbolters would be ap-1
toss in a psybolt strat on a big blob of terminators that just teleported in for 40 str5 ap-2 shots
I do not recall what edition it was
but I do seem to recall that greyknights had some sort of ability called the shrouding or something like that were enemy suffered penalty to hit them if over 12" away,
anyone?
