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BrianDavion wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Grey Knights for example lack a good source of heavy ranged firepower which seems to be a requirement for a codex to do well

Well, this is not their fighting doctrine.
It's more close and personal with storm bolters, power weapons, and psychic powers.

right, essentially their entire army is "infantry with stormbolters and swords" there's just not much varity to do much else. which hurts them in an edition that so favors massed firepower at range

This is how it will be in a real war.
If an infantry battalion needs supporting fire power, it will make a request for a tank company.
Here its the same.
Just add a detachment from your favorite SM chapter.
I guess GK will hardly operate as a whole battalion (in our scale). Similar to Harlies and whatnot.

well yeah but being told "if you wanna be effective, soup" is disheartening. no matter your army

Indeed, in view of political correctness, stay away from soup.
But if you enter a tourney, soup is the best you could eventually do.
Choosing the best of several worlds.

BrianDavion wrote:
Grey Knights for example lack a good source of heavy ranged firepower which seems to be a requirement for a codex to do well

Assault Centurions say hi.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Grey Knights for example lack a good source of heavy ranged firepower which seems to be a requirement for a codex to do well

Assault Centurions say hi.

Grey Knights don't have access to assault centurions, and probably won't after this release either.

I'm still wondering why Englishman is still commenting here if he's so bored. Why not wait til Saga of the Beast and then come back and cry why Orks weren't given anything good again.

 bullyboy wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Grey Knights for example lack a good source of heavy ranged firepower which seems to be a requirement for a codex to do well

Assault Centurions say hi.

Grey Knights don't have access to assault centurions, and probably won't after this release either.

I'm still wondering why Englishman is still commenting here if he's so bored. Why not wait til Saga of the Beast and then come back and cry why Orks weren't given anything good again.

I was just refuting that long range anti-tank is a necessity for a codex to do well. GK have a lot of stuff that gets personal and does anti-tank well. GK are not a stand back and shoot army.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Spoiler:

 bullyboy wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Grey Knights for example lack a good source of heavy ranged firepower which seems to be a requirement for a codex to do well

Assault Centurions say hi.

Grey Knights don't have access to assault centurions, and probably won't after this release either.

I'm still wondering why Englishman is still commenting here if he's so bored. Why not wait til Saga of the Beast and then come back and cry why Orks weren't given anything good again.

I was just refuting that long range anti-tank is a necessity for a codex to do well. GK have a lot of stuff that gets personal and does anti-tank well. GK are not a stand back and shoot army.

I think you meant to say:

"I was just refuting that long range anti-tank is a necessity anti-everything and cheap screen are necessities for a codex to do well."

A complete revamp and new codex aren't really that necessary.
GK could be made good from a few key changes. 6-12 new spells, a change to the rule of 1, or normal smite could make them a good army.

 _SeeD_ wrote:
A complete revamp and new codex aren't really that necessary.
GK could be made good from a few key changes. 6-12 new spells, a change to the rule of 1, or normal smite could make them a good army.

Their possible super doctrine giving them normal smite always on a 5+ (4+ with the +1 to cast) would actually be a huge increase to their output.

 NurglesR0T wrote:

 _SeeD_ wrote:
A complete revamp and new codex aren't really that necessary.
GK could be made good from a few key changes. 6-12 new spells, a change to the rule of 1, or normal smite could make them a good army.

Their possible super doctrine giving them normal smite always on a 5+ (4+ with the +1 to cast) would actually be a huge increase to their output.

While this would be true on the table, fluff-wise GKs are not really known for mowing down all their enemies with mind-bullets (unless it's from a psilencer), as their go-to tactic. Id rather leave that style to 1KSons and Tzeentch.

Psychic powers that buff their close combat, shooting, staying power and movement should be something they can constantly spam (or at least attempt to).

 bullyboy wrote:

I'm still wondering why Englishman is still commenting here if he's so bored. Why not wait til Saga of the Beast and then come back and cry why Orks weren't given anything good again.

And I’m wondering why you feel the need to post about me at all.

Apathy does not mean a complete disregard for any discussion. I’m entitled to post here as much or as little as I like. Now try to stick to the topic, rather than throwing your sly quips at me.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Units aren’t the only tools open to factions now. Stratagems, relics, special issue wargear and psychic powers are all tools and they are all extended with supplement level content.

I’ve heard that GK get ‘more love’ from PA because GW is well aware of their awful, almost meme worthy performance, 8th edition so far. My guess is that GW go way over the top because they love their Marines but we will see.[i]

So far, that's only been true if said SM army also had Primaris models to push on consumers to buy as well. Based on the 26 months of 8ed attention GW has actually shown towards GK, I seriously dont think its possible for them to go over the top. Well, it's NOT impossible....but the likelihood of that is about the same as GW releasing another Primarch in 8ed/2020...take that how you will and the level of optimism required.

 Waking Dreamer wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Units aren’t the only tools open to factions now. Stratagems, relics, special issue wargear and psychic powers are all tools and they are all extended with supplement level content.

I’ve heard that GK get ‘more love’ from PA because GW is well aware of their awful, almost meme worthy performance, 8th edition so far. My guess is that GW go way over the top because they love their Marines but we will see.[i]

So far, that's only been true if said SM army also had Primaris models to push on consumers to buy as well. Based on the 26 months of 8ed attention GW has actually shown towards GK, I seriously dont think its possible for them to go over the top. Well, it's NOT impossible....but the likelihood of that is about the same as GW releasing another Primarch in 8ed/2020...take that how you will and the level of optimism required.

I'm only passing on rumours here. Those rumours state that GW recognised GK as underperforming and have given them an appropriate buff to make them more competitive.

Given the way GW reacted to Marines underperforming (to a lesser degree), I can absolutely believe they'd go over the top with GK.

By all means disregard this, or disagree etc. I've given you the rumour and my take on it - that's all. We'll known soon enough.

I suspect GKs will indeed get a sizable buff, but weather or not it'll be the kind of buff needed is questionable. you know GW, they think giving an additional +1 str to the sergent makes a squad of S3 AP-3 attacks useful

BrianDavion wrote:
I suspect GKs will indeed get a sizable buff, but weather or not it'll be the kind of buff needed is questionable. you know GW, they think giving an additional +1 str to the sergent makes a squad of S3 AP-3 attacks useful

MAybee more pricecuts, ya know, to sell more models.

BrianDavion wrote:
I suspect GKs will indeed get a sizable buff, but weather or not it'll be the kind of buff needed is questionable. you know GW, they think giving an additional +1 str to the sergent makes a squad of S3 AP-3 attacks useful

Well ask any GK player before the CA2018, forget about any rumours and hearsay....GW on their officially website, officially stated "Grey Knights were one of the big winners of Chapter Approved 2018"

Actuality: Nope. STILL at the bottom.

So, fool GK players once with "GK buff hype", shame on you.

Fool GK players twice with "GK buff hype", shame on us (and still also you).

These rumours don't come GW directly though. And however you cut it, GK were in a better state after CA18 than before.

Nevertheless, I'm still more excited than ever. I mean, it is called PSYCHIC awakening.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

I'm still wondering why Englishman is still commenting here if he's so bored. Why not wait til Saga of the Beast and then come back and cry why Orks weren't given anything good again.

And I’m wondering why you feel the need to post about me at all.

Apathy does not mean a complete disregard for any discussion. I’m entitled to post here as much or as little as I like. Now try to stick to the topic, rather than throwing your sly quips at me.

Just wondering how many times you're going to come on here posting "I don't care"....when obviously you do. That, more than my post, would spare the thread content.

we'll end this tangent here please.
ta.

I hate the current meta, can't stand more SM overpower; but I'm really happy if GK and DA are back on the table

Darsath wrote:
You know, for an event called PSYCHIC awakening, it's had very little to do with psychers.

That's on you. It was made clear very early on that it wasn't "Psykers everywhere!", but rather psychic phenomenon occurring.

Ynnari, Drukhari, and Craftworlds getting in scraps? Psychic phenomenon would be happening.
Word Bearers trying to corrupt worlds with daemons? Spoiler: psychic phenomenon!
Tyranids encroaching on Baal, oh you damn well better believe psychic phenomenon.

The marine meta is currently like the knight meta last year. If you're going to an event, you plan for it as your primary opponent. I expect it will be like this for a few months and then maybe April will see a change in some of the overpowering elements, unless a better balance has occurred at major events.

There are 14 marine factions in the game now, get used to MEQ being something that you need an answer to. It would be like going to a tournament without any anti-vehicle. The fact that we didn't care about that profile was the anomaly, now we swinged too hard in the other direction, but we are closer to what it should be.

I have the gut feeling that will involve the legion of the damned somehow. Just.... because the name.

Perhaps they will let the GK to summon dudes from the legion of the damned like the CSM summon Daemons?

psipso wrote:
I have the gut feeling that will involve the legion of the damned somehow. Just.... because the name.

Perhaps they will let the GK to summon dudes from the legion of the damned like the CSM summon Daemons?

Well they are Marines - so guess thats another Supplement - I mean pretend Campaign book sorted

psipso wrote:
I have the gut feeling that will involve the legion of the damned somehow. Just.... because the name.

Perhaps they will let the GK to summon dudes from the legion of the damned like the CSM summon Daemons?

They quite literally just squatted the Legion last week.

 Mr Morden wrote:

psipso wrote:
I have the gut feeling that will involve the legion of the damned somehow. Just.... because the name.

Perhaps they will let the GK to summon dudes from the legion of the damned like the CSM summon Daemons?

Well they are Marines - so guess thats another Supplement - I mean pretend Campaign book sorted

yeah because grey knights are given soooo much

BrianDavion wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

psipso wrote:
I have the gut feeling that will involve the legion of the damned somehow. Just.... because the name.

Perhaps they will let the GK to summon dudes from the legion of the damned like the CSM summon Daemons?

Well they are Marines - so guess thats another Supplement - I mean pretend Campaign book sorted

yeah because grey knights are given soooo much

They have not had their Supplement/Campaign book yet - same as not a single Dynasty, Craftworld, Order, Regiment, Forge World, Coven, Cult, Kulture, Kabal, Troupe etc has had one

guess which one is more likely.....

It's kind of strange to me that they made it DA + GK v 1k sons, rather than SW vs 1k sons

 Crazyterran wrote:
It's kind of strange to me that they made it DA + GK v 1k sons, rather than SW vs 1k sons

Too cliche maybe?

Either way "damned" probably just refers to chaos in general so nothing too exciting like the legion of the damned

was discussing with friend
Greyknights with doctrines,
super doc would probably be assault oriented
but just having doctrines alone would be massive for greyknights
starting round 2, all those 60+ stormbolters would be ap-1
toss in a psybolt strat on a big blob of terminators that just teleported in for 40 str5 ap-2 shots

I do not recall what edition it was
but I do seem to recall that greyknights had some sort of ability called the shrouding or something like that were enemy suffered penalty to hit them if over 12" away,
anyone?