Quality of miniatures is great and they've settled their payment issues with the designer of their Joan of Arc KS game, so I'd give 'em a go *if* I were interested in the property.
The usual caveat, of course, is that some Dakkanauts somehow expect or want a boardgame to have GW / metal / resin quality miniatures and, no, Mythic, CMON, etc. won't have them. KDM's about the only that comes to mind, and boardgamers are still not interested in assembling mini's or paying $25 for one.
IIRC, The background behind the dispute was that the designer had a contract with Sans Detour (y'know, the guys working hard to make sure they're spending Confrontation backer money on themselves) and Mythic bought Sans Detour, including the designer's contact with them. Oops, but I'm sure this sorta things happen, not that you want to be caught in it. Also, dig around their KS game updates to see how many outstanding games (eg. Solomon Kane) they still have.
I got the Joan of Arc kickstarter. Quality of minis was good, but there were issues with the game (extreme set up time, sloppy proofreading and testing for scenarios). I've backed two other kickstarters from them (Super Fantasy Brawl, which is close to shipping, and Joan 1.5 which is looking to ship in December or so now that they solved their legal disagreement), but I think I'd be a bit frustrated if I had backed Solomon Kane.
About bloody time they did a board game for Darkest Dungeon.
The mini's are nice enough. Are they slightly chibified or is it just the angle of the photo playing tricks?
Snrub wrote: The mini's are nice enough. Are they slightly chibified or is it just the angle of the photo playing tricks?
Darkest Dungeon already has slightly chibi characters (they are only 3-4 heads tall), so that picture looks like a pretty accurate representation of the game characters.
Sqorgar wrote: Darkest Dungeon already has slightly chibi characters (they are only 3-4 heads tall), so that picture looks like a pretty accurate representation of the game characters.
You know, it took you saying that for my brain to go "of course they are". I don't know why I thought they were natural proportions. Especially considering I've got 500+ hours clocked in the game.
If the game is good that is a bonus. The minis look great and I will be backing this just for a chance to get them. Darkest Dungeon is my favorite video game of the past 20 years, and I don't think I could pass this up.
I can see why they've chosen to make minis that look like those characters in the game, (and indeed it might have been part and parcel of getting the licence),
and it's going to attract those who have a strong attachment to the video game
but it's going to rule out most of those who might just want to plunder the game for the minis
> Besides that, the proportions which look fitting to the art style in the game, just seem "off" for miniatures.
I think that's one of the double-edged swords of an IP. Just as you "lock in" those who are fans of the IP, you risk "lock out" of those who aren't. Certainly, the DD miniature proportions risk the latter.
As others have said, translating from video game IP to boardgame medium has all sorts of issues, with some game design choices that even closely follow the game alienating the audience, such as Steamforge's "grinding" in its Dark Souls play.
On top of this, for a license, there may be a licensing fee, as well as licensor approval, both of which add more cost and potential delays to a KS project. Some licensors are easy for small companies to work with. Others aren't. A problem is that you, as a backer, usually don't know.
If you're on the fence for an IP-related game, particularly if you expect to play it, I say don't back it and wait for the reviews at retail. If you are attracted to the game, don't let the IP color your decision to back the game. Mythic could be better, but it's certainly not as bad as some other KS and retail IP's I've seen...
I think it was always a given that they'd base the minis off of the "attack poses". But yeah, some of them don't translate overly well to miniature form.
Mythic have some of the minis up on their facebook.
I think, ideally, they should have just had all the minis in the stock at ease pose. So the plague doc and bone spearman. Nothing off about these.
Spoiler:
Where as something like the Collector
Spoiler:
Doesn't work at all. It's quite awkward looking.
I'd really like to see a game play vid. If it looks like a decent board game then i'd jump in on that. If it's, then just the minis for me. Does anyone know what Mythics other board games play like? Are they much fun?
If it ends up costing in retail as much as Cthulhu wars, but has all the enemies from the video game (including the bosses), I`ll easily buy it.
But my guess is, that they`ll have DLCs in form of every separate dungeon: Fish, Hog, Mosquitos and so on.
there was a big interview on Beast of War this weekend, and as you suspected it's KS exclusive (they talked to distribution, and got no interest at the price it would need to be), Sounds like the plan in a lot in the main box and a big expansion for the rest
If it ends up costing in retail as much as Cthulhu wars, but has all the enemies from the video game (including the bosses), I`ll easily buy it.
But my guess is, that they`ll have DLCs in form of every separate dungeon: Fish, Hog, Mosquitos and so on.
there was a big interview on Beast of War this weekend, and as you suspected it's KS exclusive (they talked to distribution, and got no interest at the price it would need to be), Sounds like the plan in a lot in the main box and a big expansion for the rest
Well.... feth.
I guess no DD board game for me - can`t reallt justify bying another boardgame atm. Kinda stings, with being a big DD fan and all. And the sculptors did justice.
Maybe they`ll have late pledges.. Like half a year late.
I guess no DD board game for me - can`t reallt justify bying another boardgame atm. Kinda stings, with being a big DD fan and all. And the sculptors did justice.
Maybe they`ll have late pledges.. Like half a year late.
If you are actually interested in the game, but money situation is not good, why not $1 pledge? That way you'll get the updates and can make up your mind at later time when you see how long the PM is open.
I guess no DD board game for me - can`t reallt justify bying another boardgame atm. Kinda stings, with being a big DD fan and all. And the sculptors did justice.
Maybe they`ll have late pledges.. Like half a year late.
If you are actually interested in the game, but money situation is not good, why not $1 pledge? That way you'll get the updates and can make up your mind at later time when you see how long the PM is open.
Haven`t thought of that! Thanks
I guess, it shows, that I have never backed anything on KS.
Really conflicted about this. I loved the game and I quite like the design of the miniatures BUT
A) As I've seen from backing the most recent Catalyst Battletech kickstarter, renders and reality are often far apart and I have to imagine that Mythic will outsource the miniatures production to China with predictable results
B) Mythic doesn't seem to enjoy a great reputation for their various projects and while you'd hope they've learned from their failures regarding previous Kickstarters, you never know...
A) As I've seen from backing the most recent Catalyst Battletech kickstarter, renders and reality are often far apart and I have to imagine that Mythic will outsource the miniatures production to China with predictable results
B) Mythic doesn't seem to enjoy a great reputation for their various projects and while you'd hope they've learned from their failures regarding previous Kickstarters, you never know...
I have received a couple of pledges from Mythic and miniature quality has been very good for both games.
Both games I have received play well but there are some proof reading issues with the rules and gameplay in both games had a few less than ideal areas however in both games they have taken feedback on board and are releasing updated rulebooks with the proof reading issues fixed and updated mechanics (from memory for Joan of Arc PDF is free but physical copy has a postage fee as it comes with quite a few other bits as part of a revised edition rule and mission book, for Reichbusters this is physical and has free postage as they had to send a replacement card sheet anyway). They say they have taken the proof reading issues on board for the future and area always open to feedback on the rules.
Mythic has provided good minis on everything I've had from them so I wouldn't worry on that front,
Gameplay is to my mind a bit more of a worry although what I've had has been decent (although it might need a bit of head scratching or asking around to get your head around the way the rules are written)
the thing i'd worry most about is if the game will go far enough away from the videogame (which I don't know beyond the name) to make a good board game (Dark Souls from Steamforged clearly showed a faithful representation may not make a great game)…. but they've said they're aware of the issue, whether they get it right we'll wait and see
> (although it might need a bit of head scratching or asking around to get your head around the way the rules are written)
I think Mythic and Monolith are French companies, so, yes, stuff can be lost in translation. And not only should you have a gamer make the translation, but the translation needs to be playtested as well.
ced1106 wrote: > (although it might need a bit of head scratching or asking around to get your head around the way the rules are written)
I think Mythic and Monolith are French companies, so, yes, stuff can be lost in translation. And not only should you have a gamer make the translation, but the translation needs to be playtested as well.
YMMV.
They have acknowledged the translation issues and have said they taking steps to resolve them moving forward. You can see this with the new updated rule and campaign books for Time of Legends and Reichbusters are much clearer than the originals.
I'm one of those poor fools who backed Solomon Kane more than two years ago and has yet to see anything from it.
They claim that production is ongoing, but we haven't seen anything conclusive lately. The first wave was supposed to ship in q4 this year, but since it isn't on a boat yet, I'm very skeptical it will ship by Q4.
I expect it will deliver eventually, but just wanted to give fair warning.
Gallahad wrote: I'm one of those poor fools who backed Solomon Kane more than two years ago and has yet to see anything from it.
They claim that production is ongoing, but we haven't seen anything conclusive lately. The first wave was supposed to ship in q4 this year, but since it isn't on a boat yet, I'm very skeptical it will ship by Q4.
I expect it will deliver eventually, but just wanted to give fair warning.
Also a Solomon Kane backer. I verrrrrrryyyyy hesitantly backed "Hel: The Last Saga" as well but I absolutely won't back any other games from them until both are received AND I find the quality (of components and game play) acceptable. SK hasn't had an update in nearly a month, even though things are now supposedly in production, where prior to that there was one just about every Wednesday. Why go quiet when things are supposedly so close to shipping?
Honestly, that rankles on me a bit. I don't like that they've got another 3 or 4 projects in various stages of production. That's not to say that they're in over their heads, or cant work on them all simultaneously, but it does mean that problems can easy arise. I'd rather they (not just Mythic but all small companies in this position) focus on one thing at a time before jumping into a new venture. Especially given the size of some of Mythics games. This game is shaping up to be quite the weighty set, as was Joan of Arc and Solomon Kane. All that takes a lot of resources and time. And if one person is working across multiple projects then that has the potential to throw them all out significantly if that person leaves/falls badly ill/dies/etc and no one can quickly fill the void.
All that said, probably still wont stop me from backing this. Even if it takes a dogs age to get here. We'll see. Still got 2 weeks to make up my mind.
gak. This might be my first time backing a kickstarter. I loved Darkest Dungeon, though I haven't played it in awhile and those minis are sick. I'd get them just for the hellion and bounty hunter minis and the monsters. The rest is gravy. EDIT: That plague doctor is pretty damn great too XD
Snrub wrote: Honestly, that rankles on me a bit. I don't like that they've got another 3 or 4 projects in various stages of production. That's not to say that they're in over their heads, or cant work on them all simultaneously, but it does mean that problems can easy arise. I'd rather they (not just Mythic but all small companies in this position) focus on one thing at a time before jumping into a new venture. Especially given the size of some of Mythics games. This game is shaping up to be quite the weighty set, as was Joan of Arc and Solomon Kane. All that takes a lot of resources and time. And if one person is working across multiple projects then that has the potential to throw them all out significantly if that person leaves/falls badly ill/dies/etc and no one can quickly fill the void.
All that said, probably still wont stop me from backing this. Even if it takes a dogs age to get here. We'll see. Still got 2 weeks to make up my mind.
If they, or that matter ANY Company, would do one game at time, from design to delivery, before starting the next Project, they would go out of business.
It makes no sense for the design people to sit on their thumbs while the molds of the figures are tooled and the game is printed or the delivery is ongoing (games are on the ship for many weeks before they even reach the delivery centres).
Businesses are paying their employees money, so they need to be kept busy working on the games and not just sitting in the coffee room and waiting until the factory finishes their part.
If businesses did just one game at time (from start to finish), they wouldn't get money from the games that often. Do you really think it is enough to keep business running if they got money once a year or two years? They need more constant revenue than that.
I have backed Solomon Kane, Joan of Arc 2 and Hel. And feel confident on backing DD. All these games will be delivered (unless Act of God stops it.)
I have Joan of Arc 1 and Reichbusters, so I know they can do fine plastic models. I'm not worried about the quality of the plastic crack in these games.
Gallahad wrote: I'm one of those poor fools who backed Solomon Kane more than two years ago and has yet to see anything from it.
They claim that production is ongoing, but we haven't seen anything conclusive lately. The first wave was supposed to ship in q4 this year, but since it isn't on a boat yet, I'm very skeptical it will ship by Q4.
I expect it will deliver eventually, but just wanted to give fair warning.
Also a Solomon Kane backer. I verrrrrrryyyyy hesitantly backed "Hel: The Last Saga" as well but I absolutely won't back any other games from them until both are received AND I find the quality (of components and game play) acceptable. SK hasn't had an update in nearly a month, even though things are now supposedly in production, where prior to that there was one just about every Wednesday. Why go quiet when things are supposedly so close to shipping?
Sam Healy their community rep or whatever just said the below about Solomon Kane:
"Hey, everyone! We just got the new information about SK early in my morning (west coast), but that was after the WuW/Newscast updates were written yesterday. The way I understand it is simply this: a shipping bottleneck has been created by all the shutdowns and delays from earlier this year. One thing that is crucial for you guys to understand is that we tell you exactly what we are told by the factory, when we are told by the factory. If subsequent updates differ from previous ones, it's because something at the factory level has changed. The only thing that has changed since the last update is that the factory has informed us of this shipping bottleneck, as I'm calling it. They simply can't get the finished Wave 1 product on the boats sooner because there is a lack of room on the boats. The issue with the tiles, that many perceived as them needing to be sent for reprint thus causing more delay, was in fact not a situation calling for a reprint, as the issue was caught before the tiles and inserts went to print/production. Another thing that I would like to address is the fallacious idea that everything else is forgotten when a new project/campaign begins...quite the polar opposite is true. Indeed, a big part of my job is endeavoring to keep all the latest news on all our projects current, so that when people ask I can answer. We have always determined to be as transparent as possible with our backers, and we will continue to do so. We literally have no control over the problems shipping companies are having right now, or the factory's inability to put our product on the boats in a more timely fashion. We told you earlier what we were told by the factory. And that's exactly what we're doing here. Of course, we are apologetic that it is taking this long, and we're certainly not blind to how long it's taking. But please rest assured that we are working as hard as we can on the things we can effect, to make sure that you get this product as quickly as possible.
So it looks like early 2021, which no doubt will be slowed by Chinese New Year... So we are probably looking at mid 2021, a full three years after backing, not to mention wave two...
In their defense they have been transparent the whole time and given regular updates. I've no doubt they are working hard to get this project off their books.
Relevant to backers of Darkest Dungeon: I believe they will deliver SK eventually, and they have been up front about delays, but you should consider how long you are willing to wait and be a little skeptical about timelines (which is the case with ALL Kickstarters)
Unfortunately, when it comes to overseas production (which is the case for most plastic miniature and boardgames), a KS creator, or any company, for that matter, should have a representative there to make sure the factory is actually doing what the factory should be doing. It is *not* a trustworthy relationship. Even Reaper Miniatures, with its Bones line, fell into the "everything is fine until it's not" trap. Petersen Games, of Cthulhu Wars, said how they had to send someone to China on a regular basis. MegaCon Games said how they had to threaten to withhold payment when the factor tried changing plastics on them. A dice KS had quality control issues with the dice found just before the dice were to be shipped overseas. If something fails to pass quality control, the situation may be that the factory has to fine another timeslot in its production; it won't drop everything and reschedule its other jobs.
As a backer, you obviously don't know the factory the creator is using, nor what their relationship is, and that's one of the many risks of KS. I dunno what the solution is. I happen to not be backing many plastic miniature boardgames, going more for miniatures-only KS, which happen to be made domestically, not that that guarantees delivery, either. (Domestic creators tend to be smaller companies than ones that use overseas production.)
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Col Hammer wrote: If they, or that matter ANY Company, would do one game at time, from design to delivery, before starting the next Project, they would go out of business..
While this is true, I don't think that the truth is particularly important when it comes to business. It's the creation of customer confidence, and Mythic isn't doing that with its workload of projects. The reality is that KS projects are more visible, and nobody wants to hear that *their* project is in trouble because of problems with some *other* project. This, despite that often a creator with only one open KS project may be running a retail business on top of a KS (eg. Reaper Miniatures) or have another job entirely. So, yes, while you can find a creator who has only one project open, I would agree that it's unlikely that he has no other work that's been undertaken.
That's why there's retail, I suppose. Higher price, different selection, but far fewer risks. And we're entering the holiday season...
Col Hammer wrote: If they, or that matter ANY Company, would do one game at time, from design to delivery, before starting the next Project, they would go out of business..
While this is true, I don't think that the truth is particularly important when it comes to business. It's the creation of customer confidence, and Mythic isn't doing that with its workload of projects. The reality is that KS projects are more visible, and nobody wants to hear that *their* project is in trouble because of problems with some *other* project. This, despite that often a creator with only one open KS project may be running a retail business on top of a KS (eg. Reaper Miniatures) or have another job entirely. So, yes, while you can find a creator who has only one project open, I would agree that it's unlikely that he has no other work that's been undertaken.
That's why there's retail, I suppose. Higher price, different selection, but far fewer risks. And we're entering the holiday season...
Furthermore, many of those involved in the project may well be freelancers not actually employed by the company. No idea exactly how common this is in the (war)gaming industry, but many sculptors, artists and quite some game designers are definitely working on a freelance basis.
Cove expansion looks cool. Stupid arterial pinch.....The Flagellant seems an odd choice of hero for said expansion, at least based on the video games as nearly everything in the Cove has stupid high bleed resist.
I'm on the fence on this project. DD is my favorite video game of the last decade, and the minis look great, but play wise the game looks super fiddly (tons of card board chits keeping track of things on other pieces of cardboard) and seeing as I probably wouldn't see anything until late 2022 I don't really know if it's worth the investment.
On the other hand I think you'll end up with a pile of models rivaling some of the Bones campaigns for how much bang you'll end up getting for your buck.
Not counting the Cove, with the Crimson Court and base pledge we're nearing the one mini, one dollar phase, and they're only going to continue adding to the pile.
I'm interested in the game, but the models are probably what will sell me. I love the style of Darkest Dungeon and I like how they've captured it in the models (I do think the Crusader is weird looking though, that's not the best pose). Then there's the monsters though. Damn. I've been using Pathfinder tokens for DnD but this game alone meets so many of the needs of a Ghost of Saltmarsh campaign, which is the campaign I've been wanting to run for awhile.
highlord tamburlaine wrote:On the other hand I think you'll end up with a pile of models rivaling some of the Bones campaigns for how much bang you'll end up getting for your buck.
Not counting the Cove, with the Crimson Court and base pledge we're nearing the one mini, one dollar phase, and they're only going to continue adding to the pile.
That is a good point. Definitely good value.
LordofHats wrote:I'm interested in the game, but the models are probably what will sell me. I love the style of Darkest Dungeon and I like how they've captured it in the models (I do think the Crusader is weird looking though, that's not the best pose). Then there's the monsters though. Damn. I've been using Pathfinder tokens for DnD but this game alone meets so many of the needs of a Ghost of Saltmarsh campaign, which is the campaign I've been wanting to run for awhile.
I'm a big fan of the aesthetic of DD as well. I do think they should have used the neutral pose on the Crusader where he is choked up on his sword personally. I'm actually in our break from running a Ghosts of Saltmarsh campaign right now. It's a total blast and my players are loving it!
Plague Doctor is mandatory for all Veteran+ Cove missions. Only way to reliably stack on high damage blight and she can cure bleed.
The Flagellant seems an odd choice of hero for said expansion, at least based on the video games as nearly everything in the Cove has stupid high bleed resist.
On the face of it, yes. But if you give him a trinket with +Bleed skill, you'd be surprised how often he will apply bleed to pelagics. Not an ideal choice, no. But you can make him work. Plus if I remember rightly, he also lowers bleed resistance with his attacks, so it becomes much easier after a turn or two.
highlord tamburlaine wrote:On the other hand I think you'll end up with a pile of models rivaling some of the Bones campaigns for how much bang you'll end up getting for your buck.
Not counting the Cove, with the Crimson Court and base pledge we're nearing the one mini, one dollar phase, and they're only going to continue adding to the pile.
That's actually a really good way of thinking about it.
As it stands, for the Base game/Crimson Court + Stretch Goals 152 minis are on offer (including the Bone Arbalists). Add on the Cove and that's another 32 (including the human siren)
If the trend holds and they keeping adding additional dungeons for +$50 then in theory we're looking at $350USD + shipping for full game. That's pricey.
I'm still kind of hoping they add an option for just the minis. For as nice as the game itself looks, I could happily leave it behind for a reduced cost/shipping.
Plague Doctor is mandatory for all Veteran+ Cove missions. Only way to reliably stack on high damage blight and she can cure bleed.
The Flagellant seems an odd choice of hero for said expansion, at least based on the video games as nearly everything in the Cove has stupid high bleed resist.
On the face of it, yes. But if you give him a trinket with +Bleed skill, you'd be surprised how often he will apply bleed to pelagics. Not an ideal choice, no. But you can make him work. Plus if I remember rightly, he also lowers bleed resistance with his attacks, so it becomes much easier after a turn or two.
I'm still kind of hoping they add an option for just the minis. For as nice as the game itself looks, I could happily leave it behind for a reduced cost/shipping.
Yeah, the Plague Doctor is amazing in the Cove. It is possible to make the Flagellant work there, but just not really worth it in my opinion.
I feel the same about a minis only pledge. The game looks pretty decent, but super fiddly with all the cardboard chits on cardboard displays to keep track of.
LordofHats wrote: I'm interested in the game, but the models are probably what will sell me. I love the style of Darkest Dungeon and I like how they've captured it in the models (I do think the Crusader is weird looking though, that's not the best pose). Then there's the monsters though. Damn. I've been using Pathfinder tokens for DnD but this game alone meets so many of the needs of a Ghost of Saltmarsh campaign, which is the campaign I've been wanting to run for awhile.
"Or is it merely a trick of the light"
And yes on the minis, they hit the nail on the ehad with them..
> Not counting the Cove, with the Crimson Court and base pledge we're nearing the one mini, one dollar phase, and they're only going to continue adding to the pile.
fwiw, CMON can get to 150 mini's for $100, and the Reaper core set is something like $.75 per mini. Although I think it's an exception, but Blacklist Games was something like $.50 per mini for its Fantasy Series I and Altar Quest.
Anyway, I would appreciate knowing how many mini's there would be at the base pledge, so TIA for that!
ced1106 wrote: > Not counting the Cove, with the Crimson Court and base pledge we're nearing the one mini, one dollar phase, and they're only going to continue adding to the pile.
fwiw, CMON can get to 150 mini's for $100, and the Reaper core set is something like $.75 per mini. Although I think it's an exception, but Blacklist Games was something like $.50 per mini for its Fantasy Series I and Altar Quest.
Anyway, I would appreciate knowing how many mini's there would be at the base pledge, so TIA for that!
Personally, I think the number of minis is only a small part of the story when it comes to judging the value. The number of unique sculpts is far more important to me.
The Warrens have been unlocked. Yours for an additional $50USD.
Not quite as good base value from this expansion. But we'll see what the stretch goals bring. Nice hero sculpts though.
I fear they're going to price me out with the shipping on this project. If the core box weighs 5kg, and shipping is $35 already, then with all this add-ons, the eventual shipping will be astronomical.
While there are three less base miniatures than The Cove had (26 vs. 29), bear in mind that Cove had 3 Sea Snails and 3, I dunno, Polyps(?), which are pretty small compared to almost everything we see in The Warrens (assuming consistent scale).
With this, I think all the heroes from the game, save Shieldbreaker, are present and accounted for? Occultist and Grave Robber were stretch goals, Abomination was in The Crimson Court, and Flagellant and Man at Arms was in the Cove. I think that just leaves Shieldbreaker.
LordofHats wrote: With this, I think all the heroes from the game, save Shieldbreaker, are present and accounted for? Occultist and Grave Robber were stretch goals, Abomination was in The Crimson Court, and Flagellant and Man at Arms was in the Cove. I think that just leaves Shieldbreaker.
We don't have the Houndmaster, either, from what I can tell. It makes sense that they would leave him for the Weald expansion (which, IMHO, is far more important than the Warrens or the Cove).
I look forward to ritualistically sacrificing the Hateful Virago mini to the painting gods, once the Weald expansion is available, for all the pain and suffering she's caused me.
Ok, so all the regions have now been unlocked and an "All in" pledge has been added.
All in pledge costs $330. So that's a saving of $40 from buying them individually.
Contents are spoilered below.
Core + Courtyard
Spoiler:
Cove + Warrens
Spoiler:
Weald + Colour of Madness
Spoiler:
Stretch Goals
Spoiler:
Also, I asked about total shipping costs for the All In pledge, and while there's no confirmed cost, I was told it is likely to be roughly $10 per 5kg after the initial shipping amount.
LordofHats wrote: feth they got me. Welp. I suppose if nothing else I'll get my first Kickstarter, or I shall regail you all with tales of my buyer's remorse XD
Hopefully not, hopefully it does satisfy your demands..
Yeah they'd get me too for an all in if not for the shipping.
They confirmed the Core box weighs 5kg give or take.
Judging by the amount of minis + cards/boards in each of the expansion, a conservative guess would place them at about 2.5kg each.
So at my best estimation, shipping for an all in pledge should be about $25 + regional shipping. $60 shipping to Australia, for example.
I don't know if that initial 5kg estimate for the Core box includes all the stretch goals though. As that would blow the weight right out if not. Less so for the expansions.
In conclusion, the All In pledge + guesstimated shipping to Australia will be $390USD or $550AUD.
I unfortunately do not have that sort of cash spare. Least not for something like this.
After watching playthroughs, I have decided that I love the minis, but can live without the game itself. Maybe I`ll be able to buy them second hand after the game ships and someone will decide, that they don`t need the whole collection or have played the game enough.
Soo in 2-3 years time.
If I had cash to spare, I`d go full in just for the plastic.
I wonder how suitable those minis would be for a stylized game of Mordheim.
SnotlingPimpWagon wrote: After watching playthroughs, I have decided that I love the minis, but can live without the game itself. Maybe I`ll be able to buy them second hand after the game ships and someone will decide, that they don`t need the whole collection or have played the game enough.
Soo in 2-3 years time.
If I had cash to spare, I`d go full in just for the plastic.
I wonder how suitable those minis would be for a stylized game of Mordheim.
.
Think these guys are a fair bit bigger in scale than mordheim stuff .
SnotlingPimpWagon wrote: After watching playthroughs, I have decided that I love the minis, but can live without the game itself. Maybe I`ll be able to buy them second hand after the game ships and someone will decide, that they don`t need the whole collection or have played the game enough.
Soo in 2-3 years time.
If I had cash to spare, I`d go full in just for the plastic.
I wonder how suitable those minis would be for a stylized game of Mordheim.
.
Think these guys are a fair bit bigger in scale than mordheim stuff .
Yup, not intending to mix and match with old hammer minis, more of a scenario type play using just DD plastics. More worried about the distance measuring aspect.
A bit daft to do that though, as there are so many Ifs and Whens, that I should worry about something else.
Wow this campaign is hitting CMON levels of success. I had never heard of the video game and I don't want it, but it looks like quite an offering in terms of minis.
frankelee wrote: Wow this campaign is hitting CMON levels of success. I had never heard of the video game and I don't want it, but it looks like quite an offering in terms of minis.
Out of curosity I divided the total amount pledged by backers for an average $187 per backer.
frankelee wrote: Wow this campaign is hitting CMON levels of success. I had never heard of the video game and I don't want it, but it looks like quite an offering in terms of minis.
Out of curosity I divided the total amount pledged by backers for an average $187 per backer.
I wonder how much that has gone up with the release of the release of the pledge manager?
There was an update today relating to the rising global shipping costs and Mythic asking backers to help subsidize the increase. I get it but honestly, after 2 years of waiting and now being asked to give more money for something that was paid for upfront, I think I'd rather just have my money back.
There was an update today relating to the rising global shipping costs and Mythic asking backers to help subsidize the increase. I get it but honestly, after 2 years of waiting and now being asked to give more money for something that was paid for upfront, I think I'd rather just have my money back.
I'm in the same boat. I put in my request for a refund a few hours ago, but given the incredibly tight window between "Pay our ransom or you don't get your product" and the 5-10 day automated response I received from Mythic regarding my refund, I think a lot of us are going to have to..."make a decision"...or get off the pot.
It's especially galling because there's really no guarantee about when or if you'll get your product even if you do pony up, given this last minute nonsense from Mythic. Who's to say that a year from now when Wave 2 is about to ship they don't come knocking on our door again for another handout to pay for their other unmet kickstarters, *ahem* sorry, I meant to pay for additional shipping costs.
The stuff on the pledge manager right now includes having me pay shipping for products in Wave 2 too so it's like "you're not shipping it right now but you're asking me to pay for it anyway?"
I'm annoyed.
I want the game, but I'm not exactly eager to put more money into it. I get that no one in 2020 could have predicted how all this gak in the last 2 years would pan out, but the shipping costs they're asking us to pay is excess of the shipping costs backers have already paid.
My enthusiasm for the game in general has already diminished in the past 2 years. Even if I pay to get it I might just resell it to get back as much as I can (probably just going to do that, I can swing 46 dollars for shipping but at that point I'd rather get back as much money as I can). The whole experience has just kind of soured for me. Probably my first and last Kickstarter. This gak's just like crypto. There's no safety net or assurances from anyone that you won't get ripped off in the end.
That it's not the developer's fault doesn't make the pill any less sour.
The Mythic Ponzi Pyramid is starting its inevitable collapse. Years of poor project management, gak communication and agressivity from the like of Sam Healey to backers have damaged their reputation, as well as releasing more KS' whilst they're massively behind on existing projects is not good practice.
And now they're holding games hostage unless backers pay a "contribution"! That's Marc Goldner/Golden Bell Studios levels of shady right there.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Edit: the more worrying thing is them saying they'll store the games for 'as long as possible' if the contribution isn't paid
how long will a chinese manufacturer put up with all these games hanging around in the factory (even if they're paid something to store them they're going to be in the way)
grahamdbailey wrote: The Mythic Ponzi Pyramid is starting its inevitable collapse. Years of poor project management, gak communication and agressivity from the like of Sam Healey to backers have damaged their reputation, as well as releasing more KS' whilst they're massively behind on existing projects is not good practice.
And now they're holding games hostage unless backers pay a "contribution"! That's Marc Goldner/Golden Bell Studios levels of shady right there.
Are they that bad? I've been with them for two kickstarters, the Time of Legendss ones and they were just fine. I mean they ended up giving some freebies in those, at least as far as cards and stuff go.
(It's a pity that I just happened to find the game not to my taste.)
Right seems that the shipping is not that unreasonable for the boxes etc Im not sure how much the ancestral pledge weights though since that shipping is expensive.
In 2 years it has become impossible to ship items overseas at average prices, the prices have gone crazy high.
I would be very worried with the "they'll store the games for 'as long as possible'".
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: [
Edit: the more worrying thing is them saying they'll store the games for 'as long as possible' if the contribution isn't paid
how long will a chinese manufacturer put up with all these games hanging around in the factory (even if they're paid something to store them they're going to be in the way)
It's basically 'pay now or get nothing.'
Shipping prices aren't going down anytime soon. If the economy hits recession, do we even think a company in Mythic's position will survive? What then? Not paying now is basically throwing yourself on the sword of uncontrollable fate and they know it. If they were really absorbing the price increases before now, it means they can no longer afford to do it and as described above it does reek of Mythic basically becoming a sort of Kickstarter ponzi scheme, constantly funding the completion of past delayed projects with new ones which can't last forever. Every assurance in the update is so couched in carefully crafted language, I'm extremely suspicious of what happens to anyone who doesn't pony up now.
The actual cost isn't that much relatively, but for all we know they'll hit us up again for Wave II or just write the project off if people don't pay now then resell everything later to pocket extra profit. The whole thing is just shady as feth. They could have mentioned this in February when the pledge manager was still open and payments were being finalized before the project went into full production and people could have backed out of the risks (I would have, and I think they knew it). Instead, they waited till now after people already paid shipping and final costs not even six months ago.
> I would be very worried with the "they'll store the games for 'as long as possible'".
So didn't back Lasting Tales, eh?
That cluster has had the majority of Fantasy Series I backer miniatures stored at Quarter Master Logistics for over a year now (two years???). You keep hearing about shipping containers, but the "last mile" delivery is 1/2 the cost of shipping, and Black List Games is out of funds (they now have an investor, but they have to ship even earlier games out first) and the miniatures are still sitting there. BLG hasn't gotten to the point of asking backers for additional shipping funds (nor have they started selling their Lasting Tales solo/coop miniatures game PDFs).
I didn't back DD but did back Monsterpocalypse (now there's an expensive game to ship) and Anastyr (I'm a sucker for magnets). I have to add to my "successfully delivered a plasticrack game before" flag the "only back one project from a creator at a time" one. That said, I only buy the core and a few add-ons, never all-in, and spend as much or twice as much on retail. (Just dropped $100 for "free shipping" for the Stargrave / Sine Tempore miniatures bundle yesterday.)
Mythic said they might stop using KS, and I'm anecdotally seeing fewer plasticrack KS projects. CMON has a Dune 28mm KS campaign, similar to the War of the Ring game, but I'm not a Dune fan, so hopefully the only plasticrack KS I'll be backing is the Gloomhaven one. Wishful thinking, of course. Expectiing my Minature Market customer hold, Funagain games shipment, GameNerdz shipment, Dungeons and Lasers 3, and Amazon subscription this week.
I lucked out, no outstanding "made in China" kickstarters for me. I just got the last one, The Everrain by Grimlord Games, with a 2.5 year delay but no extra charges and they even maintained EU friendly shipping with no VAT.
The reception has been so bad that the pledge manager had to send out an email asking people reminding people that their beef is with Mythic. Good gravy.
I ended up not getting in on this because at the time, I didn't have the money for it and I was quite disappointed. Now I feel like i've dodged a really large bullet.
"Today, the shipping costs to get these games to you are $3.1M, which is $1.4M more than the $1.7 million paid by backers."
Goddam. Well that's their entire profit gone up in smoke and the company staring down a huge loss. The entire bloody kickstarter only made $5.6 million.
Those shipping costs are vicious. Makes me wonder how much damage the shipping did to the Horus Heresy Age of Darkness boxset profits.
But then "Shortage of empty containers in asia" and "no warehouse room" might not be as big an issue for GW because they manufacture in the UK and have their own distribution.
Will be interesting to see if it is reflected in their financials when they are released next week.
The boxset might not be profitable like this DD box. But then GW might end up being the only miniature company left alive at the end of all this with these costs.
Really lost interest with Darkest Dungeon after strongly disliking what Redhook did with Darkest Dungeon 2 so I guess my sympathies for the company are kinda kaput.
Maybe GW will license out the 40k license to someone who can make a Darkest Dungeon 1 clone with a 40k skin for those us not into DD2
derpherp wrote: The entire bloody kickstarter only made $5.6 million.
The pledges don't include the shipping costs. We paid shipping in addition to the pledges (so in total backers have paid 7.1 million to get the game) and the shipping was already looking steep. I've imported stuff from Europe for half what they charged me on this (before now). Apparently now the cost of getting the game to New Zealand or Japan is over $150 USD for the biggest pledge and that's something 33% of what was paid for the game itself.
derpherp wrote: But then GW might end up being the only miniature company left alive at the end of all this with these costs.
I think you're gonna see the rise of more companies like wargames atlantic, Archon, and the clumb of British companies who use Renedra (a british plastic mini manufacturer who are the guys who make the sprues for NorthStar and the Perrys, if I'm not mistaken) start to take the spotlight more than kickstarters that rely on chinese factories.
derpherp wrote: The entire bloody kickstarter only made $5.6 million.
The pledges don't include the shipping costs. We paid shipping in addition to the pledges (so in total backers have paid 7.1 million to get the game) and the shipping was already looking steep. I've imported stuff from Europe for half what they charged me on this (before now). Apparently now the cost of getting the game to New Zealand or Japan is over $150 USD for the biggest pledge and that's something 33% of what was paid for the game itself.
Thats a lot of money. Not familiar with shipping to those areas so cant say if its reasonable or not. What I can say is that I stopped ordering from the US since shipping is at the moment at ridiculous levels and thats not even thinking if it hits customs...
Kickstarters these days either deliver really quickly, same year or so, or risk having this huge dent on their credibility and delivery.
I don't think you can lay too much blame at Mythic's door. Shipping prices really are much higher than they were when they ran the campaign.
On KS there is no promise of delivery. You take a risk and they take a risk. Mythic can't just create money out of thin air. Asking for more money is the responsibile thing to do, rather than using money from newer Kickstarters to cover the cost.
Just to throw some gas into the fire here's a post today from Fred Henry (owner of Monolith) about Monolith's current shipping situation which I'm certain was posted because of this Mythic issue.
Well... I've been receiving a flood of PMs from Monolith pledgers worried about the consequences of the transport crisis on their pending pledges. So I will answer very factually to everyone at the same time. And to be totally factual I am attaching here the official quote from my carrier.
For 9 months now, the price of containers has only gone down. Last October we were paying $21,000 for a 40 foot container (67 m3); in March we were paying $16,000; in June $12,000. Now the price is around $11,000. But let's say it's 12 000$ since it's the official document I have at hand.
So, to bring a 40 feet container from the factory to the European port costs us 12 000$. Then, to clear this container and have it shipped by truck to the hub (Meeple logistics) costs us $1,900 more (€/$ parity = 1). So, the trip from the factory to the hub costs $13,900 (more like 13k actually). In 2019, for this same trip we were charged $4,900, a difference of $9,000.
In this 40 foot container, we put 3100 Boxes the size of the big Claustrophobia box. So, for the trip from the factory to the hub, that represents, for a box the size of Monolith's Claustrophobia, an extra ... 2,90€ !!!
So, Monolith pledgers can be reassured, we will not ask you for any extra money, and we will just take it from our margin.
Fred Henry
Well to be fair to Mythic that's just one hub for Monolith (EU) so if the US, Canada and Digery Doo Land are similar that's 50k increase maybe (asia is shipped from China and RoW is shipped from EU I think for Monolith). Still a lot less then 3 million.
Flyos Games are saying $200,000 cad for the shortfall on Vampire the Masquerade Chapters. The campaign only raised $1.35 mil cad. They tried to raise the shortfall by selling $20 exclusive card packs with some new item cards. They didn’t quite raise enough so the directors took out $20k cad personal loan to cover the rest.
Gallahad wrote: I don't think you can lay too much blame at Mythic's door. Shipping prices really are much higher than they were when they ran the campaign.
I disagree.
They only closed the pledge manager 6 months ago. They could, and should, have warned people then that they might have to charge additional shipping fees. Shipping costs did not magically sky rocket in 6 months they've been rising for years. Before the game went into production. Before the tenor of things became 'we have your half-completed pledge but we refuse to ship it to you until you pay us more money in the next ten days and then you'll just have to hope we don't feth you over a second time.' If they didn't suspect this six months ago, they're incompetent. If they did then they deliberately hid it and said nothing until they could say they had what we paid for but refuse to ship it. Shipping for this game was already oddly high when it was paid.
That's a radically different situation from a project that falls through and comes to nothing. For all intents and purposes, the project is complete. Even Wave II is already 'paid for' at the factory and set to enter production. The only problem is that Mythic is refusing to ship what people bought unless they pony up more money that should be their burden for failing to deliver the game for so long. If any other business operated in this fashion they'd be sued. I'm pretty sure Mythic can already be sued because crowdfunding no longer works this way in the EU. They passed laws against it. People there are obligated by law to a refund if they ask even on a Kickstarter. It's just the US with its gakky corporation's first stance on everything that's likely to suffer (and even then, the FTC and state AG's have sued Kickstarter campaigns for certain things).
Mythic is even calling the produced games 'ours' yet in a live stream just yesterday when directly asked if they would resell games that people didn't pay the new shipping costs for to other people, the guy on the stream gave an overtly non-commital answer. All this while the announcement backlashing on their other projects with a lot of people saying they're backing out (I only have their word that this is happening) and the refusal from Mythic to provide any clarity on what happens even if we pay now. They've been asked repeatedly what assurances they can give that delivery will actually happen and they've notably talked around the topic and refused to engage any question that isn't 'how do I pay.'
Mythic can't just create money out of thin air.
Mythic is an established multi-million dollar company, not some indie developer operating on shoe strings. They don't have this excuse. They made 7.6 million dollars. Where did it go?
Asking for more money is the responsibile thing to do, rather than using money from newer Kickstarters to cover the cost.
I'm suspicious that that's exactly what they did, except the Darkest Dungeon game is so much bigger than the projects that followed it they can't subsidize costs for it with future games.
Mythic isn't an indie developer, but neither do they have a big retail presence. Their money comes from Kickstarter. If they don't have the money from the DDKS they don't have the money. For businesses, cash flow matters. I believe that some of the delays on Hel The Last Saga is Mythic trying to wait for cheaper shipping.
I agree they should have communicated with backers before the PM closed, but they might not have known at the time and ground freight might have changed in the intervening 6mo. Are they not offering refunds?
Mythic isn't handling this as well as they could, but all of those criticisms are criticisms around the margin. You can have sloppy communication and execution in a world where shipping costs don't go up by 200%.
Sounds like they need someone else managing their logistics. They should have locked in a rate with a contract when the PM closed, but they didn't. So now they need extra money to ship your game. Sloppy execution. Not some conspiracy to defraud you of your money.
They won't tell anyone, but in my language any answer to the question 'can I have a refund' that isn't an immediate yes is a no. And that's in normal business where it comes down to huge multi-billion dollar companies knowing you could never challenge their bs in court even if you wanted to. These guys have 'insert standard Kickstarter isn't a store excuse.' Myself and others have all asked and the only word we've gotten is third hand from people in Mythic's discord where someone from the company said 'we aren't offering refunds right now and will let you know next week.'
I still interpret that as a no.
Worse, I interpret that as Mythic doesn't have the money to cover refunds or shipping and is going sit and wait to see how things shake out, which calls into question their ability to deliver anything at all. What happens if too few people pony up? Will they refund those who paid when the shipment doesn't happen? If they can't afford to ship how the hell are they launching retail orders by the end of the year? Will they charge a second time when Wave II is due to ship?
Even if they were bothering to answer a single one of these questions I don't know that it would matter.
You can't break an agreement and then be upset when your customers don't trust your word anymore and with how cagey they're being about the questions they will answer I doubt their intentions and reliability completely. Today has only made this worse with reps of the company dodging everyone who doesn't ask how to pay the fee.
They should have locked in a rate with a contract when the PM closed, but they didn't.
They could have delivered it on time if they hadn't spent 18 months downgrading the product to save costs. That was a shrug w/e a year ago when they admitted to it and the cost to the backer seemed negligible, but apparently, we're getting upcharge anyway because they delayed production for so long. I think that makes it worse.
Not some conspiracy to defraud you of your money.
The only difference is incompetence or malice. In either case, I still call it fraud. They have too many projects behind their backs to legitimately claim shock and surprise. If US consumer protection laws weren't so bloody backward, and if this were anything but a Kickstarter with the standard Kickstarter excuse, Mythic would be staring down lawsuits so big they'd probably ship the game at any cost rather than incur the consequences. Just because they have a legal out means very little to me. Backers paid all obligations and Mythic closed on those obligations when they shut down the pledge manager.
Now they want to change the terms and shift the burden of their failures onto us.
That's a big negatory good buddy. The email I received from them today when I requested a refund a few days ago.
"We have halted the refunds for Darkest Dungeon at the moment, until we gather enough data this week. More news will be shared next week regarding the possibility of processing refunds at this point.
Please note that if you cannot pay the additional contribution, your order can still be shipped at a later date. We do not have a current timeline and will keep backers updated. The contribution just guarantees that your game will ship now and/or when the relevant wave is ready.
More news will be shared in future Updates about the estimated shipping time of such orders."
While it's not a hard no, as LordofHats said, basically anything other than a yes is a no.
I haven't even gotten an email and it's funny because it looks like they're throwing out an automated pre-written response after telling us we'd all get a personal response addressing our concerns when our tickets were acknowledged.
Flyos went a very roundabout way of offering refunds. They were not prepared to do it themselves but had a list of people who missed out on the game and wanted a copy, so would match up anyone who wanted a refund with someone after a copy and then get them to transfer the money directly across from replacement backer to original backer.
> I am attaching here the official quote from my carrier.
I remember when Reaper was passing down info from their Chinese manufacturer and backers got mildly screwed, anyway. I mean, telling backers what your suppliers told you is CYA, but if you picked a bad supplier, or if the supplier can't get good info, you're still passing on bad info that won't help backers.
> For 9 months now, the price of containers has only gone down.
I've read that they "only" went down to 6x that of pre-pandemic levels. Better than 10x. Anywho, I found a pretty graph that shows 7K vs. under 2K pre-pandemic. Personally, I don't think we're going to return to anywhere close to pre-pandemic levels until China quits locking down ports, and that's not going to happen since the President Xi has made CoVid into a "East vs. West" political issue (no, really). Also, the "last leg" of the shipping is 50% of the cost. Once the ships arrive, those packages don't pack and ship themselves. NA backers who backed Fantasy Series 1 from Blacklist Games have been waiting over a year for the shipping of boxes that have arrived in Florida at Quarter Master Logistic's warehouse. In any case, different companies subsidize shipping differently. Pick 'em carefully. (Or pick retail if you're washing your paint-soaked hands off KS plasticrack like I keep trying to do.
"That said, container imports remain near record levels as China's export decline ends, so it is not yet clear if the shortage in container shipping is ending. The Federal Reserve's global supply chain pressure index remains near an all-time high, though it has declined markedly since December. Accordingly, the overall dynamic of container shipping remains strong as the market remains in a tight shortage. However, the data indicates a peak in container shipping that a contraction will likely follow." : https://seekingalpha.com/article/4524551-container-shipping-shortage-ending-danaos-stock-considerably-oversold
I remember when Reaper was passing down info from their Chinese manufacturer and backers got mildly screwed, anyway. I mean, telling backers what your suppliers told you is CYA, but if you picked a bad supplier, or if the supplier can't get good info, you're still passing on bad info that won't help backers.
It can be CYA for sure but in this case Monolith doesn't have anything being delivered right now so it really is just Fred responding to the Mythic kerfuffle as people were asking if they'd have to ask for more money months from now.
I paid Mythic the extra cash they requested to send me the game I already paid for because I could understand the problem they were facing with the sudden shipping price jump, but I sure as gak will slap them around when Anastyr is ready to ship, probably in 2 years, if they don't go out of their way to refund me the the difference between the peak shipping bubble price they charged for me for that game and the price they will actually pay when the game is ready to ship.
It has to work both ways, otherwise it's just a scam.
To be fair, this is how you should always look at kickstarter until the thing is sitting on your living room.
That said, I'll give Mythic the benefit of the doubt and follow Hanlon's razor and say that it's just gross incompetence on their part and not malice.
I have to, otherwise it means I got conned twice by max pledging 2 of their games.
But whatever the result is in the end, I think I wont be supporting them anytime soon.
I jumped on board for Anastyr because of the minies, at the time DD didn't asked me for more cash to deliver what I already paid and I they did a good job at hiding the fact that they were not including the shipping price in the pledge (and made sure to not tell you what the price would be until the campaign was over and your pledge locked).
I'm all for supporting the little guy and backing gak, but at some point you have get some self respect and cut your loss.
