For those interested, we will be launching a Kickstarter starting January 12th, 2021. We are aiming to create molds for Satyr infantry and Scythian infantry. With support, we would like to take the Scythian sprue and expand it to a 6x9 sprue to fit in Scythian horses.

Those who have been following us at "Faun Models" on Facebook have also been treated to some early work on Amazons. With Tim Barry as lead sculptor, we would set out to expand the Scythians even more by introducing Amazons into the mix (though this is my high end goal).

If interested, feel free to follow us at our kickstarter profile, and it will give you notifications of launch.

Models are 28mm, but on the side of 32mm for reference.



https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rgdgaming/28mm-hard-plastic-satyrs-and-scythians

WIP Scythians, Courtesy of Hamster Cage Studios

That image reminds me of something I will need to mold and attach to the Satyrs...

The Satyrs I’m ambivalent towards, but those Amazons and Scythians are right in my wheelhouse. Will they be compatible with WGA historicals or closer to your fauns in scale and proportions?

That leftmost head in the headshot really speaks to me.

Will admit I'm after a regiment or so of decent Hoplite Amazons for my Greeks.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
The Satyrs I’m ambivalent towards, but those Amazons and Scythians are right in my wheelhouse. Will they be compatible with WGA historicals or closer to your fauns in scale and proportions?

That leftmost head in the headshot really speaks to me.

Closer to a 28mm human (32mm or so), and Tim made them in a general enough size that kit-bashing should be fine. The fauns were designed in a stylistic sense (slimmer body). Satyrs are designed with a bigger body, closer to a heroic feel, a big counterpart to the Fauns.

hey! i wanted to give an input: the chain mail pattern should be rotated 90 degrees, i see taht many sculptors fail in this.

Rings pattern is horizontal like this:

))))))))
(((((((
))))))))

It is not the same, since vertically, the mail is rigid and doesnt allow expansion (as if it was a elastic)





the rest is just cool! good luck with the project!!

 PeculiarCompanions wrote:
hey! i wanted to give an input: the chain mail pattern should be rotated 90 degrees, i see taht many sculptors fail in this.

Rings pattern is horizontal like this:

))))))))
(((((((
))))))))

It is not the same, since vertically, the mail is rigid and doesnt allow expansion (as if it was a elastic)





the rest is just cool! good luck with the project!!

Thank you, ill pass it along.

Progress on scythian horse

And together!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rgdgaming/28mm-hard-plastic-satyrs-and-scythians


Prelaunch notified link above.

Short goal is to create Satyrs and Scythians, long term goal is to make Scythian horsemen and Amazons, Ala Tim Barry. Should be fun.

I prefer the look of the armored, skirted Scythian in your earlier posts. If these are all part of the same sprue, what is the ratio of armored skirts to leggings?

Up in the air until I know we can squeeze a 6x9 out of the sprue in place of a 4x6. In likelihood we will have more pant combinations. Aiming to build 32 models out of it. If Amazons, sensible proportioning of skirts and pants.

I would either bump up the size of the heads slightly or bump down the size of the hands. The current scythian head is more truescale while the hands are a bit more exaggerated like most wargaming kits.

Yeah there is something slightly uncanny valley about the Scythians

Honest mistake on the heads, I mixed the 28 and 32 versions of the heads

Wait. What scale will these end up being?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Wait. What scale will these end up being?

Aim was for 32 to give it more of an impression. 28 made amazons too dainty. So syncing up the models.

rgdgaming wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Wait. What scale will these end up being?

Aim was for 32 to give it more of an impression. 28 made amazons too dainty. So syncing up the models.

I think aiming for 32mm will be a good move, and will make them useful for fantasy conversions.

Tried true 28mm at first, didn't look right. So the 32mm bump made for the better move.

I only remarked on that head because I intermixed the heads from the 28 and 32 from the prints. Downside, head is small in that pic, upside, the rest of it is fairly solid.

So taking the commentary from others, and pow wowing with Tim, we are tweaking the chain to scale plates, cleaning up the chain on the pants etc.

Heads will be fine on release. We would do a final check with files all in place.

I prefer scale to chain, so this is good news to me.

Some tweaks to texture

Hmm I'd aim to scale them to match with Victrix, Wargames Atlantic and Warlord Games historicals myself. Equally proper internal proportions are far more important. My hope with the Amazons is to be able to add hem to my Victrix hoplite blocks without anybody noticing on first glance.

Not sure about Victrix, but we should have a close height to the Warlord and WGA models. They are 32mm, so I would think about the base you put them on if that last few mms makes the world of difference to you. The cool thing is that they should be of a good kitbashing opportunity. Amazons were puny with a true scale 28mm.

On that note, took this week to refine the chain, we added scale plate to a chest,and created side arms. Texture looks phenomenal. Tim based another shield from one he partaked in from MA. Follows in line with the styles of weapons that might have been used.

If only the Scythians had written records

Is the chain detail deep enough to show up on a primed mini? Hope it makes the historical gamers happy, anyway.

The weapons look great to me.

it will work well

I feel that torso with the mail needs to be a bit wider or puff out at the bottom of the intention in that the chain mail is tucked into his belt or pants.

Let me know if my critiques aren't welcome and I'll stop them immediately, but I figure now is the time to make changes and suggestions.

no issue. At the time of the sculpt, the issue was focusing on the revision of the chain. I saw that too, no worries!

Those Satyrs have character and are well fed. Nicely done.

 Shrapnelsmile wrote:
Those Satyrs have character and are well fed. Nicely done.

Kudos to Emel for that. They were his original sculpts when we were just getting into the mold production stage for the fauns. Was demanded a lot, so, here we are!

rgdgaming wrote:
Not sure about Victrix, but we should have a close height to the Warlord and WGA models. They are 32mm, so I would think about the base you put them on if that last few mms makes the world of difference to you. The cool thing is that they should be of a good kitbashing opportunity. Amazons were puny with a true scale 28mm.

Excellent! But bear in mind Warlord Games and WGA are sold as 28mm which certainly confused me.

 Llamahead wrote:

rgdgaming wrote:
Not sure about Victrix, but we should have a close height to the Warlord and WGA models. They are 32mm, so I would think about the base you put them on if that last few mms makes the world of difference to you. The cool thing is that they should be of a good kitbashing opportunity. Amazons were puny with a true scale 28mm.

Excellent! But bear in mind Warlord Games and WGA are sold as 28mm which certainly confused me.

Depends on that, I noticed their hoplites for instance were much smaller via hail caesar, but their celt archers of a comparative nature (celts in plastic are smaller though).The base added made them look like dwarves in comparison, the archer a little brother. A nice flat surface would help majorly with that thought in mind.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rgdgaming/28mm-hard-plastic-satyrs-and-scythians/description


Kickstarter is live!

I like the Satyrs. It's not easy to find plastic beastmen without GW's evil Chaos flavor. I pledged 2 boxes that will form the basis for a Greek mythology-themed KoW Herd army. Is there also a chance you'll do Minotaurs?

I’m pledged. The satyrs are cool, but I’m much more excited for the Scythians and, hopefully, Amazons. The variety in the Scythian kit should make for some awesome conversion opportunities.

I still think Mr Thicc-Legs McSmoothGreco looks like the perfect basis for a Sci fi trooper right off the cover of dad’s old paperbacks.

Good luck with the kickstarter, the fauns and centaurs were really great models!

https://www.getty.edu/art/exhibitions/black_sea/overview.html

Regarding tunics. Some surviving relics were produced by Scythian craftsmen. Some were produced by Greek craftsmen, but show Scythian influence. So it is not impossible for Scythians to have adopted Greek elements, including tunics. As it is thirteen years since I saw that exhibition, I don't remember if any there were Scythian produced items with Greek influence.

Bit of trivia. The need to show off has long been part of the human psyche. The wealthiest Greeks living in (what they saw) as a primitive backwater imported products that were the "latest fashion" in Greece, especially from Athens. By the time they arrived, they might be a year or more out of date, but it was new to the local Greek community. So you can imagine a wealthy Greek couple hosting a party and flaunting the latest in Athenian red-figure pottery, with actual Greek wine in their just acquired krater. (Krater: for serving wine in a social setting, thus it is elaborately decorated. Amphorae for transport or storage may or may not be decorated.)

Re: Kickstarter. I'm following, but am more interested in the Amazons, and it's early days yet.

Did they have a gallery of photos? Flash player seems to be needed, we all know it became the object of virus shaming.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:
https://www.getty.edu/art/exhibitions/black_sea/overview.html

Regarding tunics. Some surviving relics were produced by Scythian craftsmen. Some were produced by Greek craftsmen, but show Scythian influence. So it is not impossible for Scythians to have adopted Greek elements, including tunics. As it is thirteen years since I saw that exhibition, I don't remember if any there were Scythian produced items with Greek influence.

Bit of trivia. The need to show off has long been part of the human psyche. The wealthiest Greeks living in (what they saw) as a primitive backwater imported products that were the "latest fashion" in Greece, especially from Athens. By the time they arrived, they might be a year or more out of date, but it was new to the local Greek community. So you can imagine a wealthy Greek couple hosting a party and flaunting the latest in Athenian red-figure pottery, with actual Greek wine in their just acquired krater. (Krater: for serving wine in a social setting, thus it is elaborately decorated. Amphorae for transport or storage may or may not be decorated.)

Re: Kickstarter. I'm following, but am more interested in the Amazons, and it's early days yet.

Well I knew Tim Barry was into the amazons at one point due to his past work, the idea popped up again when we started getting into a love affair with Scythians, since no one does them in plastic. If at the least, I wanted to advertise the idea that we are interested in making them. We have assets for the cause, and the means to get them injected, alas funding is a cruel mistress!

rgdgaming wrote:
Did they have a gallery of photos? Flash player seems to be needed, we all know it became the object of virus shaming.

They did. There is an exhibition book. It's expensive now, but if your local library is functioning, perhaps they have it, or you could use inter-library loan. I own a copy; I'll look through it later, and if there's anything that seems useful, I'll post.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:
Re: Kickstarter. I'm following, but am more interested in the Amazons, and it's early days yet.

rgdgaming wrote:
Well I knew Tim Barry was into the amazons at one point due to his past work, the idea popped up again when we started getting into a love affair with Scythians, since no one does them in plastic. If at the least, I wanted to advertise the idea that we are interested in making them. We have assets for the cause, and the means to get them injected, alas funding is a cruel mistress!

You've had one successful KS, so a second is not out of the question. If this one is successful, but does not get close enough, perhaps you can sound out prospects for an Amazon KS.

As for appearance. Like most people, my first introduction to the Amazons was through Greek mythology, so I picture them in Greek cuirasses etc. However, some evidence suggests the myths came from the Greeks encountering Scythians and their warrior women. So having the Amazons in Scythian attire could work. That being said, I think Grecian style Amazons will sell better.

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:

rgdgaming wrote:
Did they have a gallery of photos? Flash player seems to be needed, we all know it became the object of virus shaming.

They did. There is an exhibition book. It's expensive now, but if your local library is functioning, perhaps they have it, or you could use inter-library loan. I own a copy; I'll look through it later, and if there's anything that seems useful, I'll post.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:
Re: Kickstarter. I'm following, but am more interested in the Amazons, and it's early days yet.

rgdgaming wrote:
Well I knew Tim Barry was into the amazons at one point due to his past work, the idea popped up again when we started getting into a love affair with Scythians, since no one does them in plastic. If at the least, I wanted to advertise the idea that we are interested in making them. We have assets for the cause, and the means to get them injected, alas funding is a cruel mistress!

You've had one successful KS, so a second is not out of the question. If this one is successful, but does not get close enough, perhaps you can sound out prospects for an Amazon KS.

As for appearance. Like most people, my first introduction to the Amazons was through Greek mythology, so I picture them in Greek cuirasses etc. However, some evidence suggests the myths came from the Greeks encountering Scythians and their warrior women. So having the Amazons in Scythian attire could work. That being said, I think Grecian style Amazons will sell better.

I mean, with the intermingling of tastes and armor, basically you can copy Greecian style and add tastes of the Scythian. Plenty of examples of it happening. Hence the elements of gold, metal scaling, if so intended. Now, if you want really early amazons, then you have the different dress standards to address.

 Esmer wrote:
I like the Satyrs. It's not easy to find plastic beastmen without GW's evil Chaos flavor. I pledged 2 boxes that will form the basis for a Greek mythology-themed KoW Herd army. Is there also a chance you'll do Minotaurs?

I did do minotaurs in our last kickstarter. If interested I can add them via the backerkit. We had a single Minotaur Brute, and then the Trio.

rgdgaming wrote:

 Esmer wrote:
I like the Satyrs. It's not easy to find plastic beastmen without GW's evil Chaos flavor. I pledged 2 boxes that will form the basis for a Greek mythology-themed KoW Herd army. Is there also a chance you'll do Minotaurs?

I did do minotaurs in our last kickstarter. If interested I can add them via the backerkit. We had a single Minotaur Brute, and then the Trio.

Personally I am very interested in the trio, because - unlike most minotaurs - they have (if I remember correctly) the human feet of the mythological Minotaur and therefore would fit my planned theme better.

I can't speak for others but I'd say that putting minotaurs in the backerkit is probably a good idea in any case, because virtually all tabletop games/armies featuring goatmen I can think of also feature minotaurs.

I think that's why some liked the minotaur brute, for others, it was hooves or bust.

I'm back for more too.

Enjoyed the fauns, even if I'm still a bit critical of the thinness of some of the parts.
They were something different and a new take on a type of model we hadn't seen in plastic before.

I've been on a bit of a historical binge too, so I'm curious to see how these mesh with other kits out there (including the fauns and centaurs).

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
I'm back for more too.

Enjoyed the fauns, even if I'm still a bit critical of the thinness of some of the parts.
They were something different and a new take on a type of model we hadn't seen in plastic before.

I've been on a bit of a historical binge too, so I'm curious to see how these mesh with other kits out there (including the fauns and centaurs).

About as tall as the centaur, but with a bit more girth, comparable to other human models at 32mm. Fauns were a special case that demanded a balance. Even then, we were scrapping by the tolerance thresholds. It was something I couldnt do without Tim Barry, as the engineering involved a lot of back and forth to improve it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tiers have just been altered, at 6k we will do a base sprue of the Satyrs and Scythians, to eliminate internal competition with one another.

Big win for the progression tier.

Amazons move to the 12k bracket, and horsemen to 18k

33% filled.

Some updates for Amazons

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rgdgaming/28mm-hard-plastic-satyrs-and-scythians/posts/3074689




People wanted a mix of capped and non-capped heads

The only image I found in my Greeks of the Black Sea book that is relevant is an Amazonmachy (a battle involving Amazons). Two Amazons were mounted and wore phrygian caps, a loose blouse, and trousers. They were armed with spear and hoplons (the round Greek shield). Fighting them were two naked hoplites. So a phrygian cap is a valid option since it was widely used in antiquity. I am also fine with the present headdress.

For helmets, while the phrygian helmet makes more sense, the classical Corinthian helmet with a tall crest is the most stylish.

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:
The only image I found in my Greeks of the Black Sea book that is relevant is an Amazonmachy (a battle involving Amazons). Two Amazons were mounted and wore phrygian caps, a loose blouse, and trousers. They were armed with spear and hoplons (the round Greek shield). Fighting them were two naked hoplites. So a phrygian cap is a valid option since it was widely used in antiquity. I am also fine with the present headdress.

For helmets, while the phrygian helmet makes more sense, the classical Corinthian helmet with a tall crest is the most stylish.

....Tims on that . You'll see when it comes together.

As someone who's really enjoying his fauns (although a move meant that the neatly sorted parts ended up in different places, so for the rest of them I still have to find the heads) I'm very interested in this and naturally decided to back it.

 Dolnikan wrote:
As someone who's really enjoying his fauns (although a move meant that the neatly sorted parts ended up in different places, so for the rest of them I still have to find the heads) I'm very interested in this and naturally decided to back it.

Thank you! I see interest in the project is growing, I just wish I could connect to those on the fence (KS, why you no do dis?). Tim Barry is heading the sculpts, so, we could have a wonderful redux of Amazons in the late stage. Our hurdle is coming together for the 6K, if people break that, we increase visibility, and people can feel easier knowing loot would be unlocked.

Being one of those on the fence I have 4 mild issues.
Scale-How do they compare with other manufacturers not an issue with Satyrs but with Scythians & Amazons more so. A simple scale comparison is always important for me.
Mixed Pledge- I don't particularly want the Scythians and while it's meant to become an option in the pledge manager I'd rather be sure I can specify now.
Size of Pledge-You don't have a pledge for multiples of the same box. I can well imagine somebody wanting 5 of the same box....Most kickstarters offer a three & 5 box deal pledge which I'd have backed for on this one the progression pledge is a cool idea but I'd rather have more control over what I'm getting now.
Back loading-You've talked about making stuff available in the Backerkit however if I can't see what might be there I can't pledge for it until the pledge manager is open. Quite a few people are talking about using the Satyrs with the Fauns and Centaurs and making these visibly available and also for the multi box deals will help.
Honestly none of these have tipped me over into not backing I'm just in no hurry to back and I probably will after payday. These should all get you more pledges without forcing you to promise wild amounts of product. I hope this helps.

 Llamahead wrote:
Being one of those on the fence I have 4 mild issues.
Scale-How do they compare with other manufacturers not an issue with Satyrs but with Scythians & Amazons more so. A simple scale comparison is always important for me.
Mixed Pledge- I don't particularly want the Scythians and while it's meant to become an option in the pledge manager I'd rather be sure I can specify now.
Size of Pledge-You don't have a pledge for multiples of the same box. I can well imagine somebody wanting 5 of the same box....Most kickstarters offer a three & 5 box deal pledge which I'd have backed for on this one the progression pledge is a cool idea but I'd rather have more control over what I'm getting now.
Back loading-You've talked about making stuff available in the Backerkit however if I can't see what might be there I can't pledge for it until the pledge manager is open. Quite a few people are talking about using the Satyrs with the Fauns and Centaurs and making these visibly available and also for the multi box deals will help.
Honestly none of these have tipped me over into not backing I'm just in no hurry to back and I probably will after payday. These should all get you more pledges without forcing you to promise wild amounts of product. I hope this helps.

So the point of backerkit is to help me organize the pledges into neat bite size bits. The pledge that goes to backerkit later allows me to enter in questionnaires, for manual data entry. When you get your questionnaire
, you will be able to fill out the info you want, such as if you want all of one box or the other, or a mix (very neato!). I've also added single box options of Scythians and Satyrs in the rewards. Addressing Faun and Centaur boxes, that is an idea I can entertain.

The easiest way for more boxes is to to increase the pledge, or the "keep the options" open pledge. I would follow up in your questionnaire.

I don't know if its changed since last time, but I believe they waited thirty days to actually pull cards out by the time kickstarter ended. So we had a month delay before we started getting into molding.

Scale can be solved with some photos, Ill grab some tnt and relay them.

I appreciate your feedback!

Quick snap

Thats fine it's how they usually go but telling me whats going to be available in the backerkit allows me to put the money in now for the extra bits adding it to the total in the current programme and bringing the total up encouraging more people to pledge. All it would really take would be a priced up menu of the options and it would make me more likely to pledge if that makes sense.

I would like something similar too. Often you see KS being organized along Troop box, warband and full army levels, with an adequate number of boxes.

For example, I'd like to start a full army with something like, say, 2 boxes of Satyrs, 2 boxes of Fauns, 2 boxes of Centaurs and - if you decide to make them - 2 boxes of Minotaurs (or any other combination thereof).

Assuming (I may be wrong on this part) that all boxes will have the same prices, this would mean a pledge of some sort for 8 boxes, more or less.

I will see about adding some benefits like that. Took a few minutes to clean up the beginning intro to the page, and gave a summary pic for the two top tier pledges, eluding to the smaller ones and options along with it.

Progress!

Am I right in thinking that UK-based KS backers will get this without paying any extra customs fees or other taxes, since WGA have a UK hub? Or has Brexit messed with that somehow?

Yep, as we would pull inventory together around a point they restock. We would pay customs ahead, bypassing surprises at the door. Brexit might cause vat regardless, but not at the uber level direct imports did. Your flat rate per package and added costs I did not enjoy last go

You might want to put the direct link in the OP

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rgdgaming/28mm-hard-plastic-satyrs-and-scythians

Cool stuff, best of luck!

 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
You might want to put the direct link in the OP

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rgdgaming/28mm-hard-plastic-satyrs-and-scythians

Cool stuff, best of luck!

Kudos, thank you!




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Upped the ante:

6K we unlock a 4x6 of Satyrs and combine a Scythian and Amazon set to a 6x9

If the Amazons and Scythians share a sprue, will their arms be interchangeable?

The way Tim put it, the differences are noticed in the shoulders and in the legs, but the arm slots are less then a .5 mm difference. The weapon loadouts will have many similarities, so I don't know if it will make a difference to some. In context, we had a similar issue with centaurs come up in the first kickstarter and tried to solve it with a 3x4 mold, we just ended up making it a 4x6 by the end due to the amount raised.

Some fun behind the scenes.

The hair needs to be much much thicker and sharply defined to show up in plastic. Think thicker strands of hair and deeper grooves that will take a wash.

I have probably hundreds of Tim's sculpts in plastic and they have uniformly bad hair for the exact same reason. As sculpted, that hair will not show up in plastic.

The creases on the pants need to be much more sharply defined as well.

Next up!

And I’m fairly certain he will be able to get it. I do think feet need a little bit more input and we probably could go over the pants. Just showing what we could do. Literally got off the press.

Today, we shall prepare a piece that will use an optional combo part feature.

Light weapon

The heads you’ve shown all have fairly blank expressions. Will there be yelling, grimacing or sneering faces?

The weapons look good. I’m hoping for a decent variety of swords and clubs supplemented by bows or spears, or arms that can be modified easily to hold those types of weapons.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
The heads you’ve shown all have fairly blank expressions. Will there be yelling, grimacing or sneering faces?

The weapons look good. I’m hoping for a decent variety of swords and clubs supplemented by bows or spears, or arms that can be modified easily to hold those types of weapons.

If you want expressions we can. We are focused right now on showing how we can get the concept of Amazons into a clearer picture. We will have plenty of time to work out those small quirks. February we won't be able to do any molding anyhow. So we are working now.

I think you will enjoy the weapon complement

Ok you've got me I've just backed. Received a nice batch of your Fauns and Centaurs ove the holidays which will give my Greeks a nice batch of mythic rank and file.

 Llamahead wrote:
Ok you've got me I've just backed. Received a nice batch of your Fauns and Centaurs ove the holidays which will give my Greeks a nice batch of mythic rank and file.

Thank you, those models were absolutely fun. If you need any tips, let me know.

Some work on bows.

Awesome. I hope we get a lot of those bows. The double convex shaped bow is something I’ve been looking for.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Awesome. I hope we get a lot of those bows. The double convex shaped bow is something I’ve been looking for.

I imagined two poses each for space. There is probably going be those who want to be able to pull off parthian shots.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rgdgaming/28mm-hard-plastic-satyrs-and-scythians?ref=user_menu



New Torso up for Amazon.

Used in conjunction with a new helm...

rgdgaming wrote:
Used in conjunction with a new helm...

Nice!
Do you think Tim could sculpt a Boar's Tusk Helmet for the commander?

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:

rgdgaming wrote:
Used in conjunction with a new helm...

Nice!
Do you think Tim could sculpt a Boar's Tusk Helmet for the commander?

Its hard to do in LOD it seems, so he tried to get most of it Helm is not fixed to body.

Loving the short horse bows here, too.

If I can make my larp character with these sprues (on the right) I will be very happy.

https://zenfolio.page.link/wy95S

rgdgaming wrote:
Its hard to do in LOD it seems, so he tried to get most of it Helm is not fixed to body.

Ah, so he had anticipated the request! Good, good. It is properly pre-Classical, being mentioned in the Iliad as a mark of high status.

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:

rgdgaming wrote:
Its hard to do in LOD it seems, so he tried to get most of it Helm is not fixed to body.

Ah, so he had anticipated the request! Good, good. It is properly pre-Classical, being mentioned in the Iliad as a mark of high status.

Seems highly fitting for a hunter race . The boar tusk LOD is an issue because the teeth would extend in front of the face plane. Easily doable when intermingled into the helm and sides, just not below the helm. The issue of womens hair is the same, because the hair often extends behind the neck plane.


Heads up to everyone: Small change, but something to note,



We have included a revised version of the tier progression in the backer rewards. This provides some better clarity on box unlockables.


The change

The base two boxes idea stays the same, with one box more being unlocked with stretch goals (and you being able to mix and match). However, if inclined, for $20 more you can unlock four boxes regardless, and you can pick any combination of Centaurs, Fauns, Satyrs, Amazons/Scythians etc.

The previous reward had old tiers of stretch goals, which were likely confusing. Out they go.


Also, you don't have to do anything.


Quick fix:


The $20 can be bumped up with your pledge. Questionnaires will still be used down the line by email. This would also mean a pick a choose option of 8 boxes at 120, or 4 at 60. As some had asked.




Robert Dunham

When you say boxes, that includes a box choice that has 32 Amazons and 32 Scythians?

From my understanding, a $40 pledge would get me one box of 64 humans and one box of satyrs (I forget how many). So, would adding another $20 to my pledge get me an additional box of 64 humans for a total of 128 humans and one box of Satyrs at a price of $60?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
When you say boxes, that includes a box choice that has 32 Amazons and 32 Scythians?

From my understanding, a $40 pledge would get me one box of 64 humans and one box of satyrs (I forget how many). So, would adding another $20 to my pledge get me an additional box of 64 humans for a total of 128 humans and one box of Satyrs at a price of $60?

4 boxes, of a mix and match type. If budget minded, $40 gave people a lower risk tier option that could get better as people come in. However, with the introduction of the warhost pledges, we decided to give that $20 option to pledgers, one as a benefit to them, and the other to raise our momentum. Some ideas I were trying to channel from creative solutions I've been researching.

Kickstarter becomes a different world when the goal breaks. People see the momentum and gauge the likelihood of success. With proper emailing, and investment, it is possible to break expectations early, removing that barrier for many people. We come into our project as somewhat of a cold call. Seeing where peoples values were. Some from the old kickstarter wanting to see plastic satyrs, others wanting to get Amazons, as it seems.

Running it in January made the most sense because of Chinese New Year coming up. Best time to work and hear from backers.

So, how many humans and satyrs would I get for $60 vs $40?

Some people want a boost on Satyr count, but with 4 boxes, you could in theory get 64 models in one box 4 times, so several hundred. The integration of the sprue tackles the same problem, but makes it hard to separate. If more is raised, I might be able to separate them, but regardless, I should honor the same numbers for the sake of consistency.

Either way, its a boost to the backer.

Notice how we arent doing pewter this go. With imports etc, the costs were actually much worse then the plastic costs from the first round.

Ooh, nice! I'd backed the Fauns and Centaurs previously and am really quite pleased with them - I'm definitely interested in all three of the offerings this time around, and really hoping we can get to cavalry options too.

Thanks, RDG Gaming. That clarifies things.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Thanks, RDG Gaming. That clarifies things.

Welcome


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Longstrider wrote:
Ooh, nice! I'd backed the Fauns and Centaurs previously and am really quite pleased with them - I'm definitely interested in all three of the offerings this time around, and really hoping we can get to cavalry options too.

I do too, the horses are detail laced sweetness. And just changing the HEAD can make them that much cooler. Scythians were pimp my ride before pimp my ride pimped some rides.

I think it'd be good to clarify things on the KS campaign page too. It's still not really clear what either of the $40 boxes give. The second one is a bit clearer than the 1st, but still...

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
I think it'd be good to clarify things on the KS campaign page too. It's still not really clear what either of the $40 boxes give. The second one is a bit clearer than the 1st, but still...

Ok, then I will continue to work on that.

Some core focuses of the scythian weapons. For the sake of interchangeability, beyond the torso, we will make the arms a bit more neutral (not having to have chain on a tunic etc). Also, close up of Amazon.


https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rgdgaming/28mm-hard-plastic-satyrs-and-scythians

I like that selection of weapons. Are the Scythians all wearing sleeves and the Amazons all not?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I like that selection of weapons. Are the Scythians all wearing sleeves and the Amazons all not?

Legs, two pants, two legs without pants. Arms on males closer to tunic, scale dabbed about, mostly favor pants (some exceptions on legs). Females you'll likely see closer to wrist guard, sleeveless, and a tunic combo. Scale fashion was fairly patchwork, could darn near put it anywhere.

Sounds like a good mix.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Sounds like a good mix.

The infantry had a long term approach for kit bashing, as we wanted to do horses for them eventually. Lot of the weapons would agree to riders.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rgdgaming/28mm-hard-plastic-satyrs-and-scythians/posts/3082718


Update here!

Update on Boar Tusk Helm, and new scale mail variant.

Well, both of those play into my biases, so I love them. Is your sculptor still working on basic designs or is it all pretty much finalized with room for a few tweaks?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Well, both of those play into my biases, so I love them. Is your sculptor still working on basic designs or is it all pretty much finalized with room for a few tweaks?

He said he's working on some more dynamic hand weapon angles, but we could wrap up the set between now and February. People still want expressions, trying to get another "commoner" head version, need pants on one, misc stuff.

rgdgaming wrote:
Update on Boar Tusk Helm, and new scale mail variant.

Oh, very nice. Satyrs and Scythians are the priority, but how do the Amazons fit into the KS?

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:

rgdgaming wrote:
Update on Boar Tusk Helm, and new scale mail variant.

Oh, very nice. Satyrs and Scythians are the priority, but how do the Amazons fit into the KS?

Scythians and Amazons have a tie together (culturally integrated origins), and people had a big draw to them. Scythians would be next to work, taking into account backer wishes, then Satyrs. Hoping people see we are invested in the project enough to give it a go.

No one does Scythians or Amazons in plastic, and are mostly metal. Not many good beastmen for neutral uses, especially in plastic. Satyrs was more of a demand from the last kickstarter.

I would really love to see more muscular shoulders on the scythians to match their nice beefy legs.

They look a little bottom heavy to me right now.

The arms will also benefit by not looking so much like featureless tubes.

I'd also like to see the weapons made a little bit more heroic in scale. Thicker shafts and longer blades, etc. If you are aiming for fantasy compatibility I say you really go for it.

I like the look of the Amazon in scale, but since I'm a merciless critic at this point in the process (in an attempt to be helpful), I'd say that you need to make the texture deeper or it will not take a wash when made in scale.

rgdgaming wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Well, both of those play into my biases, so I love them. Is your sculptor still working on basic designs or is it all pretty much finalized with room for a few tweaks?

He said he's working on some more dynamic hand weapon angles, but we could wrap up the set between now and February. People still want expressions, trying to get another "commoner" head version, need pants on one, misc stuff.

I guess I’m worried about the project just barely funding, hoping you’re not burning too much money on sculpting for stretch goal material.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

rgdgaming wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Well, both of those play into my biases, so I love them. Is your sculptor still working on basic designs or is it all pretty much finalized with room for a few tweaks?

He said he's working on some more dynamic hand weapon angles, but we could wrap up the set between now and February. People still want expressions, trying to get another "commoner" head version, need pants on one, misc stuff.

I guess I’m worried about the project just barely funding, hoping you’re not burning too much money on sculpting for stretch goal material.

No worries, fauns and centaurs are doing pretty decently in the wholesale dept. really helps with the sculpting. Worth the investment! Issue at hand is that I’m looking for the gap difference to speed up everything. Jan and feb are just really good sculpting months. Can’t do much till March.

rgdgaming wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

rgdgaming wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Well, both of those play into my biases, so I love them. Is your sculptor still working on basic designs or is it all pretty much finalized with room for a few tweaks?

He said he's working on some more dynamic hand weapon angles, but we could wrap up the set between now and February. People still want expressions, trying to get another "commoner" head version, need pants on one, misc stuff.

I guess I’m worried about the project just barely funding, hoping you’re not burning too much money on sculpting for stretch goal material.

No worries, fauns and centaurs are doing pretty decently in the wholesale dept. really helps with the sculpting. Worth the investment! Issue at hand is that I’m looking for the gap difference to speed up everything. Jan and feb are just really good sculpting months. Can’t do much till March.

Because of Chinese New Year, I assume?

 lord marcus wrote:

rgdgaming wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

rgdgaming wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Well, both of those play into my biases, so I love them. Is your sculptor still working on basic designs or is it all pretty much finalized with room for a few tweaks?

He said he's working on some more dynamic hand weapon angles, but we could wrap up the set between now and February. People still want expressions, trying to get another "commoner" head version, need pants on one, misc stuff.

I guess I’m worried about the project just barely funding, hoping you’re not burning too much money on sculpting for stretch goal material.

No worries, fauns and centaurs are doing pretty decently in the wholesale dept. really helps with the sculpting. Worth the investment! Issue at hand is that I’m looking for the gap difference to speed up everything. Jan and feb are just really good sculpting months. Can’t do much till March.

Because of Chinese New Year, I assume?

Correct.

 Gallahad wrote:
I would really love to see more muscular shoulders on the scythians to match their nice beefy legs.

They look a little bottom heavy to me right now.

The arms will also benefit by not looking so much like featureless tubes.

I'd also like to see the weapons made a little bit more heroic in scale. Thicker shafts and longer blades, etc. If you are aiming for fantasy compatibility I say you really go for it.

I like the look of the Amazon in scale, but since I'm a merciless critic at this point in the process (in an attempt to be helpful), I'd say that you need to make the texture deeper or it will not take a wash when made in scale.

It's alright, I assume you mean well. Tim's been erroring in the side of making things bigger, especially after the Faun kickstarter. Lot of the earlier work was done in true 28, and we've made some upgrades to his computer to essentially get the most out of Freeform. The extra steps and details were crippling before, now, less of a hindrance. I'd keep an open mind as we go along. Right now our focus is putting out parts, and combinations to explain a little bit better what people should expect, and with the relation to Amazons how they will better look when they adapt Scythian type weaponry.

Took the liberty of adding examples of the mold sizes in the main page, and an example of a mace that we came up with last night.

rgdgaming wrote:

 Gallahad wrote:
I would really love to see more muscular shoulders on the scythians to match their nice beefy legs.

They look a little bottom heavy to me right now.

The arms will also benefit by not looking so much like featureless tubes.

I'd also like to see the weapons made a little bit more heroic in scale. Thicker shafts and longer blades, etc. If you are aiming for fantasy compatibility I say you really go for it.

I like the look of the Amazon in scale, but since I'm a merciless critic at this point in the process (in an attempt to be helpful), I'd say that you need to make the texture deeper or it will not take a wash when made in scale.

It's alright, I assume you mean well. Tim's been erroring in the side of making things bigger, especially after the Faun kickstarter. Lot of the earlier work was done in true 28, and we've made some upgrades to his computer to essentially get the most out of Freeform. The extra steps and details were crippling before, now, less of a hindrance. I'd keep an open mind as we go along. Right now our focus is putting out parts, and combinations to explain a little bit better what people should expect, and with the relation to Amazons how they will better look when they adapt Scythian type weaponry.

Took the liberty of adding examples of the mold sizes in the main page, and an example of a mace that we came up with last night.

I'm a backer of the Kickstarter and want nothing but the best for you guys. I'll cool my jets on the constructive criticism until you ask for it.

Good to understand that you guys are just in the roughing it in stage.

 Gallahad wrote:

rgdgaming wrote:

 Gallahad wrote:
I would really love to see more muscular shoulders on the scythians to match their nice beefy legs.

They look a little bottom heavy to me right now.

The arms will also benefit by not looking so much like featureless tubes.

I'd also like to see the weapons made a little bit more heroic in scale. Thicker shafts and longer blades, etc. If you are aiming for fantasy compatibility I say you really go for it.

I like the look of the Amazon in scale, but since I'm a merciless critic at this point in the process (in an attempt to be helpful), I'd say that you need to make the texture deeper or it will not take a wash when made in scale.

It's alright, I assume you mean well. Tim's been erroring in the side of making things bigger, especially after the Faun kickstarter. Lot of the earlier work was done in true 28, and we've made some upgrades to his computer to essentially get the most out of Freeform. The extra steps and details were crippling before, now, less of a hindrance. I'd keep an open mind as we go along. Right now our focus is putting out parts, and combinations to explain a little bit better what people should expect, and with the relation to Amazons how they will better look when they adapt Scythian type weaponry.

Took the liberty of adding examples of the mold sizes in the main page, and an example of a mace that we came up with last night.

I'm a backer of the Kickstarter and want nothing but the best for you guys. I'll cool my jets on the constructive criticism until you ask for it.

Good to understand that you guys are just in the roughing it in stage.

We pivoted fast, so the Amazons took a back seat approach to front of the line, but knowing that I don't think it would change our view of working on sculpts when you can't mold yet. Waste of time otherwise.

Throw out the feedback, not going to die Thank you for backing!

Oh man we're getting so close. I'm getting really jazzed for these! I'd posted in a local group about them but I think I'll try and bend some more ears.

Longstrider wrote:
Oh man we're getting so close. I'm getting really jazzed for these! I'd posted in a local group about them but I think I'll try and bend some more ears.

Very close, nearing the rally stage. Making more renders and part combination presentations for next week, should help!

More renders coming!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rgdgaming/28mm-hard-plastic-satyrs-and-scythians

Next up!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rgdgaming/28mm-hard-plastic-satyrs-and-scythians

Ooooooh so close. I like the javelin pose, but I think it could use just a smidge more dynamism.

If it were up to me, all the poses would look straight out of How To Draw Comics The Marvel Way.

Longstrider wrote:
Ooooooh so close. I like the javelin pose, but I think it could use just a smidge more dynamism.

I think so to. Some of the confining elements is trying to maximize the use of the body poses and the line of draft. When the fauns were made, we had two styles of torso, the 4-1 and neutral. The 4-1 had an interesting capability of reaching bow, javelin, melee and spear combinations. Each pose has certain things in mind. Its a tough battle.

Two handed weapon!

This will need some testing, and some touch ups around the neck, but an animal skin back covering.

Perhaps it’s the angle, but that animal skin looks like play dough pancake with some mild texturing.

Limitations of plastic on organic. Not bad for a day!

rgdgaming wrote:
Limitations of plastic on organic. Not bad for a day!

I doubt that. Victrix gets some amazing quality fur on their pieces.

And should you really be rushing your sculpting process to the point where key detailing (like on that cloak) is only given a day of work-time?

 lord marcus wrote:

rgdgaming wrote:
Limitations of plastic on organic. Not bad for a day!

I doubt that. Victrix gets some amazing quality fur on their pieces.

And should you really be rushing your sculpting process to the point where key detailing (like on that cloak) is only given a day of work-time?

You presume much. But ill take a gander to see what we can do! If Victrix has some good fur, we might be able to rub off some ideas.

Typically the Kickstarter creator defends his work with explanations of the process or photos of progress rather than a quick retort.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Typically the Kickstarter creator defends his work with explanations of the process or photos of progress rather than a quick retort.

There's more to it with Marcus, and I don't want to get into it. I'm displaying feedback to backers, showing what we can do, in a relatively quick time. It's not so much to rush the quality, but to give everyone an idea. I would like to think that i've shown a very willing openess to upgrade, or enhance the models for the better of people.

Yes, you have, which is why I was surprised by your curt reply.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Yes, you have, which is why I was surprised by your curt reply.

Probably came off worse then intended. His feedback, as of late, comes off more attacking to me, then actually helpful, and very presumptuous. Taking chain mail for example. Many people don't see the LOD plague that causes chainmail to be a royal pain in the butt. If done to a "correct" way, the chains actually become a problem on the side. After seeing how much of a problem, the scale actually came darn near close to an issue as well (managed to get it though). Tim's been playing a lot with fur textures lately. Fur on plastic was one of the criticisms for the fauns, so I guess it comes down to the technique. That I can see as a valid criticism.

I just wanted to say originally that it wasnt bad for a days work. If you gave him two or three days to tinker, im sure it would be awesome.

rgdgaming wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Yes, you have, which is why I was surprised by your curt reply.

Probably came off worse then intended. His feedback, as of late, comes off more attacking to me, then actually helpful, and very presumptuous. Taking chain mail for example. Many people don't see the LOD plague that causes chainmail to be a royal pain in the butt. If done to a "correct" way, the chains actually become a problem on the side. After seeing how much of a problem, the scale actually came darn near close to an issue as well (managed to get it though). Tim's been playing a lot with fur textures lately. Fur on plastic was one of the criticisms for the fauns, so I guess it comes down to the technique. That I can see as a valid criticism.

I just wanted to say originally that it wasnt bad for a days work. If you gave him two or three days to tinker, im sure it would be awesome.

Thank you for off-handedly assuming I have been attacking you, rather than being critical of your process and constructively critical of your miniatures offerings. And instead of professionally replying with a detailed explanation of your process and discussing with me, you curtly quip back.

If you are referring to my review of the fauns and centaurs on facebook, I believe my words there said nothing that had not been said by others before. RDG's earlier work are thin, small models compared to other 28mm miniatures, and the centaurs are in scale or extremely close with 1/72nd scale plastic horses (Which is obviously a scale outside of the advertised 28mm)

Below photos for emphasis and proof of my above words.

I just wanted to say originally that it wasnt bad for a days work. If you gave him two or three days to tinker, im sure it would be awesome.

And, again, I ask: Why did you not give him the extra days, and instead fast-track the sculpting process? Surely the middling results prove that the extra time to develop the product would be worth it?

That's where you and I disconnect Max. In that post on WGA, while you did criticize the centaurs, it wasn't necessarily bad. Your chief complaints coincided with customers.

People either didn't like the size, or there weren't enough bows. My own criticism stems to the two hander.

In that same post you also agreed that it was probably best that I worked the side of proportioning. Many people agreed.

The action of going smaller was a hit or miss, and it was cool to see people's perceptions challenged. Sizing of centaurs, proportions out of whack etc.

We did a cool thing by doing it: we made a regiment that people could buy for under $70, and we didnt go to the ogre horse route that people hate. It's probably due to the GW size, or other related models, that's my guess.

No problems whatsoever with that criticism.

To answer your question: we had under a week to show people a wider variety of things we could do to improve on the models. This was a way to connect with backers and help those who wanted to see more models come to light. If you are taking it as me trying to rush stuff, please don't. This is where my perception of feeling attacked comes from.

Without getting more information, you jumped to me cheating people. Just like you judged it was unrealistic to do two molds for the project with the goal in mind. You were presumptuous.

The faun project created three molds, at about 24k, plastic and pewter were around 27k at the end of the day. And we still delivered on our products in the end, in the middle of shut downs. If we had done the molding in the US, that would have been 120-150k alone, maybe 75k if they offshored it to China and brought it back. Working with Hudson allowed us to get costs down on molds, due to the return customer basis he was getting with the factory. The money maker for the factory is the plastic run. Otherwise you would see a mold range varying from 3-11k. The average being closer to 8-11. Very tangible, if you negotiate, produce multiple molds, and save them the cost of a freeform sculptor, which Tim Barry is . Not doing this to be smug, just know I paid the price to learn.

rgdgaming wrote:


To answer your question: we had under a week to show people a wider variety of things we could do to improve on the models. This was a way to connect with backers and help those who wanted to see more models come to light. If you are taking it as me trying to rush stuff, please don't. This is where my perception of feeling attacked comes from.

1. Why did you only have a week? I'm sure the kickstarter had been in the planning for several months, with associated time to get sculpts done to a high standard. I can see short time-frame turnaround on fixes. That makes sense.

I'm not trying to attack you. I'm trying to tell you the perception you are putting out there is that it's rushed. This clarifies that slightly as these are "Fixes" and not new miniatures sculpted in a few days.

Without getting more information, you jumped to me cheating people. Just like you judged it was unrealistic to do two molds for the project with the goal in mind. You were presumptuous.

please quote me exactly where I "Jumped" to you cheating people? As far as 2 molds based on your goal, it is unrealistic. I've researched plastics manufacturing, especially with minis in mind. Six grand is not enough for a full mold, and you can't normally manufacture just a half. Again, not trying to attack you, but to understand how exactly you intend to do what you profess with the goal number you have set (Because again, it frankly doesn't make sense.)

The faun project created three molds, at about 24k, plastic and pewter were around 27k at the end of the day. And we still delivered on our products in the end, in the middle of shut downs. If we had done the molding in the US, that would have been 120-150k alone, maybe 75k if they offshored it to China and brought it back. Working with Hudson allowed us to get costs down on molds, due to the return customer basis he was getting with the factory. The money maker for the factory is the plastic run. Otherwise you would see a mold range varying from 3-11k. The average being closer to 8-11. Very tangible, if you negotiate, produce multiple molds, and save them the cost of a freeform sculptor, which Tim Barry is . Not doing this to be smug, just know I paid the price to learn.

So by those numbers, you lost money on your first kickstarter. Also if we apply this example to the current kickstarter you seem to be on track to lose money there too.

I'm not attacking you. As a business owner myself, I am concerned for you.

Hey RGD, how does this stuff scale with models from Footsore and Victrix?

@RGDGaming

It sounds to me like you are stressed out, reacting to common Kickstarter discussion/criticisms as if they were personal attacks. Please remember that the people posting here all want to see your project succeed.

However, Lord Marcus has a good point. Most of us have backed at least one failed campaign in the past. Based on those past experiences, $6,000 is a very low amount of money for two Sprues. One of my biggest worries about your project is that you would only just barely fund, which is usually worse for creators and backers than not funding at all. After Defiance, Mecha Front, Robotech, and even Dreamforge and Sedition Wars, backers want some reason to believe they won’t get burned again.

 lord marcus wrote:

rgdgaming wrote:


To answer your question: we had under a week to show people a wider variety of things we could do to improve on the models. This was a way to connect with backers and help those who wanted to see more models come to light. If you are taking it as me trying to rush stuff, please don't. This is where my perception of feeling attacked comes from.

1. Why did you only have a week? I'm sure the kickstarter had been in the planning for several months, with associated time to get sculpts done to a high standard. I can see short time-frame turnaround on fixes. That makes sense.

I'm not trying to attack you. I'm trying to tell you the perception you are putting out there is that it's rushed. This clarifies that slightly as these are "Fixes" and not new miniatures sculpted in a few days.

Without getting more information, you jumped to me cheating people. Just like you judged it was unrealistic to do two molds for the project with the goal in mind. You were presumptuous.

please quote me exactly where I "Jumped" to you cheating people? As far as 2 molds based on your goal, it is unrealistic. I've researched plastics manufacturing, especially with minis in mind. Six grand is not enough for a full mold, and you can't normally manufacture just a half. Again, not trying to attack you, but to understand how exactly you intend to do what you profess with the goal number you have set (Because again, it frankly doesn't make sense.)

The faun project created three molds, at about 24k, plastic and pewter were around 27k at the end of the day. And we still delivered on our products in the end, in the middle of shut downs. If we had done the molding in the US, that would have been 120-150k alone, maybe 75k if they offshored it to China and brought it back. Working with Hudson allowed us to get costs down on molds, due to the return customer basis he was getting with the factory. The money maker for the factory is the plastic run. Otherwise you would see a mold range varying from 3-11k. The average being closer to 8-11. Very tangible, if you negotiate, produce multiple molds, and save them the cost of a freeform sculptor, which Tim Barry is . Not doing this to be smug, just know I paid the price to learn.

So by those numbers, you lost money on your first kickstarter. Also if we apply this example to the current kickstarter you seem to be on track to lose money there too.

I'm not attacking you. As a business owner myself, I am concerned for you.

It's not just a question for a week; I came into the project with a base concept, and took the time to see what backers wanted. While we waited around the month of the project, we tackled some sculpts to get people on board with our concept. Short term fixes, add ons, all useful stuff. We will likely be etching out and test driving some 3D prints soon. January and February don't have much going in mold prep time.

It’s not at all unrealistic, if you are willing to cover the difference. 3k will get you a 3x4, 6k for a 4x6 is possible, but only with good discount rates, and that's typically if the mold manufacture is doing it wholesale. Any less and they are charging for free form (depends on how the plastic rate goes, because the run will need to be larger). 8K is about right for a 4x6 without the discount rate. If you go 11 then you are closer to 6x9. From the same source company, one half can be run, if necessary, but two is ideal. Centaurs and Afghans are on the same mold. The only place you can get a decent rate is China.

As a business owner, I can respect what you do, and you have your perceived risks and rewards in the 3D printing realm. I got into this with my perceived risks and challenges. Plastic is expensive, but we are in a good spot: tax refund season, stimulus, and business grant repayment. I didn't do pewter this round, so my costs arent out of this world. We incorporated more STL backers, and found a decent way to price out backer boxes. We learned from the first go, need not worry about me.

If your intention was not malicious, that’s fine, but that is how I saw your comments.

Are you sure you can get the same discounted rate for manufacturing on your second campaign that you got on the first? Remember what happened to Dreamforge after they got their great manufacturing discounts?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Are you sure you can get the same discounted rate for manufacturing on your second campaign that you got on the first? Remember what happened to Dreamforge after they got their great manufacturing discounts?

I'd be surprised with this one, as that would leave WGA in a gak of trouble. They are consistent from what I can tell. The outsourcing company is based in Chicago, good chap! Not really a big secret. Used by many others in the ks field, and miniature world. If this was around the 2012 era, I can see dodgy molders. But, the prevalence of Freeform is making some operations into a 2-3 week gap, maybe 2-3 months of etching.

Uh, I could be wrong, but aren’t you publicly feuding with one of their people right now?

Also, hasn’t WGA grown from a fledgling company with two products looking to make a name for themselves when they signed on for your faun project to one of the premier plastic miniatures companies in the world with an established brand identity hat doesn’t need a boost in visibility or fuller catalogue which would lead them to work so generously with you?

I mean, I don’t know your relationship with WGA or any contracts you may have, but this is really giving me old Wargames Factory/Dreamforge vibes.

I think everybody needs to take a breather. I think that Bob and Marcus are trying to be helpful, but it is making rgdgaming feel a bit defensive as he feels he and Tim are doing the best possible giving the circumstances.

Rgdgaming has plenty of skin in the game, and I'm not sure that speculation about his business relationships etc. are warranted. He delivered in impressive style with his first project all things considered.

Ultimately it is up to us consumers to decide if what he is offering is worth the price. I have a lot of specific ways that I feel the sculpts can be improved, but given the track record, I'm willing to believe rgdgaming when he says he is open to suggestions at a later point in the process.

Right now, rgdgaming is trying to give a rough idea of what the Amazons will look like (and Satyr changes) under the project time constraints.

Rgdgaming for his part should try to interpret the comments a little more as passion and care for his project and less as criticism, and others should try to interpret what rgdgaming is doing as roughing in under time constraints.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Uh, I could be wrong, but aren’t you publicly feuding with one of their people right now?

Also, hasn’t WGA grown from a fledgling company with two products looking to make a name for themselves when they signed on for your faun project to one of the premier plastic miniatures companies in the world with an established brand identity hat doesn’t need a boost in visibility or fuller catalogue which would lead them to work so generously with you?

I mean, I don’t know your relationship with WGA or any contracts you may have, but this is really giving me old Wargames Factory/Dreamforge vibes.

I think its misconceptions on each end. But Hudson wasnt doing molds until we both talked about doing them, and that was when he was toying with Cowboys. He ultimately found a good lead that lead to that very company to this day, and he helped set up the contacts for the molding. I had researched everything up to rubicon molding, Mantic's etc, etc, long time to find a good price to quality ratio. Tim actually did the skeletons! Emel helped with the Satyrs.

I mean, Tony lost his interest in WGF to the HK branch, which is now doing work for GW on the side (quick ship logs and manifesto researches show imports into my city) among many others over the years. Wouldnt be surprised if it was the HK branch doing it, as the level of quality is extremely hard to find outside Rubicon relative to cost. UK would be the next best bet, but molds are getting up to 30k+ there, even with freeform. SK Engineering was one I tried, but wasnt in the books. US research was lackluster at best. They wanted XT format files, and 3-4 month EDM sessions (50-60k for a single 4x6 and 27k for offshoring. Almost a year to do a single mold.

China molders in this bracket use freeform, at least the good ones do. The best incorporate the costs. The other underlying factor, there are way too many companies that specialize in PVC, but very rare to find one with competence In HIPS. The thing about China is that there is no consistency, but there are good companies that rely on reputation to keep their sales going. Find those, pay your bills, and they will do good work. We had 10K+ pewter done in one company in a matter of weeks, it was insane. Covid really messed with the boats earlier in 2020. That was a struggle. Helps when you've done business with them, and an outsourcer to work it out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 weasel_beef wrote:
Hey RGD, how does this stuff scale with models from Footsore and Victrix?

Taller side, might not jive too well if you are using a true 28.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Uh, I could be wrong, but aren’t you publicly feuding with one of their people right now?

Also, hasn’t WGA grown from a fledgling company with two products looking to make a name for themselves when they signed on for your faun project to one of the premier plastic miniatures companies in the world with an established brand identity hat doesn’t need a boost in visibility or fuller catalogue which would lead them to work so generously with you?

I mean, I don’t know your relationship with WGA or any contracts you may have, but this is really giving me old Wargames Factory/Dreamforge vibes.

My commentary is my own personal opinion, and not that of wargames atlantic, to clarify

 lord marcus wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Uh, I could be wrong, but aren’t you publicly feuding with one of their people right now?

Also, hasn’t WGA grown from a fledgling company with two products looking to make a name for themselves when they signed on for your faun project to one of the premier plastic miniatures companies in the world with an established brand identity hat doesn’t need a boost in visibility or fuller catalogue which would lead them to work so generously with you?

I mean, I don’t know your relationship with WGA or any contracts you may have, but this is really giving me old Wargames Factory/Dreamforge vibes.

My commentary is my own personal opinion, and not that of wargames atlantic, to clarify

Lot of different representations potentially, but seeing it as individual. I think i've a better grip where you're coming from now.

 lord marcus wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Uh, I could be wrong, but aren’t you publicly feuding with one of their people right now?

Also, hasn’t WGA grown from a fledgling company with two products looking to make a name for themselves when they signed on for your faun project to one of the premier plastic miniatures companies in the world with an established brand identity hat doesn’t need a boost in visibility or fuller catalogue which would lead them to work so generously with you?

I mean, I don’t know your relationship with WGA or any contracts you may have, but this is really giving me old Wargames Factory/Dreamforge vibes.

My commentary is my own personal opinion, and not that of wargames atlantic, to clarify

My apologies.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 lord marcus wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Uh, I could be wrong, but aren’t you publicly feuding with one of their people right now?

Also, hasn’t WGA grown from a fledgling company with two products looking to make a name for themselves when they signed on for your faun project to one of the premier plastic miniatures companies in the world with an established brand identity hat doesn’t need a boost in visibility or fuller catalogue which would lead them to work so generously with you?

I mean, I don’t know your relationship with WGA or any contracts you may have, but this is really giving me old Wargames Factory/Dreamforge vibes.

My commentary is my own personal opinion, and not that of wargames atlantic, to clarify

My apologies.

Appreciated, but there is no need. You're good, Bob

It might just be me having seen lots of vase paintings with satyrs, but it does feel like a certain body part is missing. I understand that there are reasons for that, but still. I guess I'll be sculpting it on

Well, are you planning to arm them all with spears, or will you have some shafts left over for conversions?

Congratulations on funding!

Is shipment to New Zealand possible?

I am worried that the Amazons will be a bit too tall, like the Shieldwolf barbarians, but I am willing to risk it as I like their design.

I also love the Centaur horse bodies, but the human part looks a bit skinny. This may be unavoidable though, and again I am willing to risk it.

 StygianBeach wrote:
Is shipment to New Zealand possible?

I am worried that the Amazons will be a bit too tall, like the Shieldwolf barbarians, but I am willing to risk it as I like their design.

I also love the Centaur horse bodies, but the human part looks a bit skinny. This may be unavoidable though, and again I am willing to risk it.

Of course, most countries tend to do okay. Amazons will be a bump higher, but I believe the mass will be alright. Centaurs are just above the humans, just proportionally smaller to mix and match with fauns.

Some videos on youtube are available.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJb0-WnKD9A&t=219s


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dolnikan wrote:
It might just be me having seen lots of vase paintings with satyrs, but it does feel like a certain body part is missing. I understand that there are reasons for that, but still. I guess I'll be sculpting it on

We do have the file for that....

rgdgaming wrote:

 StygianBeach wrote:
Is shipment to New Zealand possible?

I am worried that the Amazons will be a bit too tall, like the Shieldwolf barbarians, but I am willing to risk it as I like their design.

I also love the Centaur horse bodies, but the human part looks a bit skinny. This may be unavoidable though, and again I am willing to risk it.

Of course, most countries tend to do okay. Amazons will be a bump higher, but I believe the mass will be alright. Centaurs are just above the humans, just proportionally smaller to mix and match with fauns.

Some videos on youtube are available.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJb0-WnKD9A&t=219s

So are the new kits (Amazons, scythians, satyrs) in line size wise with the fauns/centaurs?

 lord marcus wrote:

rgdgaming wrote:

 StygianBeach wrote:
Is shipment to New Zealand possible?

I am worried that the Amazons will be a bit too tall, like the Shieldwolf barbarians, but I am willing to risk it as I like their design.

I also love the Centaur horse bodies, but the human part looks a bit skinny. This may be unavoidable though, and again I am willing to risk it.

Of course, most countries tend to do okay. Amazons will be a bump higher, but I believe the mass will be alright. Centaurs are just above the humans, just proportionally smaller to mix and match with fauns.

Some videos on youtube are available.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJb0-WnKD9A&t=219s

So are the new kits (Amazons, scythians, satyrs) in line size wise with the fauns/centaurs?

Thank you. I have not seen that second photo before.

 lord marcus wrote:
Thank you. I have not seen that second photo before.

No problem.

If you don't mind, I do have a few questions and comments about this project, as I will have to admit reading through this thread has left me somewhat confused in some respects.

I know scale has come up several times already, and I guess it's the endless issue of inter-range compatibility. The Kickstarter front page now states "The Amazons, Scythians and Satyrs will be bigger then a Victrix model. Closer to 32mm in size, eye to feet.", but why are no scale shots provided with these relevant points of comparison? A picture next to a GW Stormvermin may be somewhat relevant for the bestial figures (actual Beastmen more so), but how that in turn translates to a comparison with an ordinary human is difficult to deduct. Most prominently Victrix' Persians or Greeks, Warlord Games' Greeks (formerly from Immortal Miniatures) or Macedonians, or Wargames Atlantic's Persians; that's information I'd be far more interested in. Even if the figures are taller, it's impossible to decide whether this would be particularly noticeable/problematic without pictures, and whether e.g. head- or weapon swaps are still possible judging by the proportions of said models. It's not helped that the Kickstarter title states the models are 28mm scale, while the second line of the project then states they are 32mm and equates this to "heroic 28mm", which in my understanding is a different thing entirely (28mm heroic still has models 28mm tall, but with proportionally larger heads, hands and weapons. 32mm just means... slightly larger everything).

Speaking of, am I correct in thinking the mounted Scythian displayed is the same one that, based on the quote below, has the wrongly sized head? It's not stated anywhere on the Kickstarter main page, and I only found out by reading through this thread.

rgdgaming wrote:
Tried true 28mm at first, didn't look right. So the 32mm bump made for the better move.

I only remarked on that head because I intermixed the heads from the 28 and 32 from the prints. Downside, head is small in that pic, upside, the rest of it is fairly solid. [...]

Heads will be fine on release. We would do a final check with files all in place.

Additionally, there are some disparities between the descriptions of the pledge levels - for example, those in the side bar say the $20 Scythian box includes 32 models, while the text clarifies there is a shared Scythian/Amazon sprue and this same box would contain 64 models. In fact Amazons are only mentioned in the "Revised Progression Tier". I guess this has something to do with changes made during the campaign (and maybe Kickstarter doesn't allow the original terms to be altered? At least I can imagine that making sense), but it's not the clearest regardless.

Since you are clearly happy to communicate directly with people on forums, as an added note I'd recommend advertising (future) products on Lead Adventure Forum too - especially those with a historical or mythological topic would be well at home there, reaching some customers not found on Dakka: https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?board=64.0 I first learned of the product there, but doubts about the scale raised in that thread put me off, and only the discussion here has somewhat clarified that the scale changed over the course of the project and that the somewhat small-headed horseman was not indicative of the final product.

Finally, as a prospective customer, I have to say I'm typically wary of Kickstarters that hope to offer completely new products beyond a certain threshold level (outside of the actual main KS goal). If I want mounted Scythians, it's a lot easier to get involved when those are either part of the main campaign, or a separate Kickstarter entirely. As an unlockable goal, this will either keep me away until they were unlocked, or get me involved early in the hope of seeing them unlocked, and then wanting out again if the goal is never reached. It's a situation that doesn't seem beneficial to either the customer or the seller.

Went over this with Marcus a bit ago, I had made a mistake on the head of the scythian horse. The head there was using a 28mm head on a 32mm frame body. A goof on my part. We were going up from 28mm in height to 32 because the size for the Amazons were going to be puny, and in the process of sending off for painting made the mistake of grabbing a nearly sized head (my expense). Just means we need to take all the files, proportionally make sure its the consistent 32, print again and check. Despite the short coming it was a decent prototype to discuss it. Likely wont be able to do the horse at the present, though the files will still be available (that had it's own merit to show nonetheless).

We could probably communicate that point better. I am just trying to get at the point that they would have a bigger mass then a smaller mass. I associate the victrix 28mm height, with a proportionally smaller body compared to that of a model that tends to be in the 32mm range. It would be a big difference. Heroic bumps are an attempt to make it appear more impressive on the table top.

Scythian box is 64, 32 minis of each for 64 in total. Hasn't changed. Raised that to make sure people werent feeling cheated for the combined mold.If its the progression tier, I can't change the terms once a backer is in, the revised should have it. The main story page is editable to the last day.