I mean, I wouldn't lie that i'd be happy if the codex was orks. We have seen one model being hinted, along side the Deathguard character that we've seen the full image of.
Eldarain wrote: There is the interesting witholdal of the DA cover art. They've essentially confirmed it's the 1st so why hide the cover? Lion?
I don't think we're seeing him for a LONG time, if at all. I think the only way we see the Lion is if they expand the Fallen into a full fledged Chaos faction.
Eldarain wrote: There is the interesting witholdal of the DA cover art. They've essentially confirmed it's the 1st so why hide the cover? Lion?
I don't think we're seeing him for a LONG time, if at all. I think the only way we see the Lion is if they expand the Fallen into a full fledged Chaos faction.
I hope we do get nice new art though.
They normally release the Primarch in a summer campaign thing. It’s possible the Lion was due in PA. But I think we are due for a second loyalist Primarch sooner rather than later. Chaos has two, loyalists have 1.
KingGarland wrote: Based on the imagery I would guess:
1. Chaos Space Marines
2. Maybe Gene stealer
As already mentioned, the imagery is just a place holder and is copied from the rulebook (Imperium and Xenos respectively).
It will be Dark Angel supplement and a Xenos book, of which nothing is known at this time.
How do you know IT WILL BE Dark Angel and Xenos?
B.c GW literally say it will be.
LOL so they say it somewhere (i suppose it must be a livefeed or something) and then make it 'REDACTED' in their offical statements on Warhammer-Community... Wow...
KingGarland wrote: Based on the imagery I would guess:
1. Chaos Space Marines
2. Maybe Gene stealer
As already mentioned, the imagery is just a place holder and is copied from the rulebook (Imperium and Xenos respectively).
It will be Dark Angel supplement and a Xenos book, of which nothing is known at this time.
How do you know IT WILL BE Dark Angel and Xenos?
B.c GW literally say it will be.
LOL so they say it somewhere (i suppose it must be a livefeed or something) and then make it 'REDACTED' in their offical statements on Warhammer-Community... Wow...
"Dark Angels fans won’t have to wait much longer – your codex supplement will be on its way early next year, along with the first xenos codex of 2021."
Eldarain wrote: There is the interesting witholdal of the DA cover art. They've essentially confirmed it's the 1st so why hide the cover? Lion?
I don't think we're seeing him for a LONG time, if at all. I think the only way we see the Lion is if they expand the Fallen into a full fledged Chaos faction.
I hope we do get nice new art though.
They normally release the Primarch in a summer campaign thing. It’s possible the Lion was due in PA. But I think we are due for a second loyalist Primarch sooner rather than later. Chaos has two, loyalists have 1.
Yeah, and....? There should be 4 daemon primarchs before we get another loyalist. Fulgrim & Angron are very much a thing in "present day" 40k, so hopefully they'll get something before any more loyalists turn up. As much as i want Vulkan or the Khan now, things should get worse before they get better.
By the Warhammer Community, it will almost certainly be Dark Angels and a Xenos.
Picture is no guide for which Xenos, but the "new HQ" video probably does allow some speculation that Orks and Dark Eldar (as well as Sisters and AdMech) will get a 9th Ed. Codex fairly early (given there's a new Death Guard guy for the Death Guard release as well and assuming the shown HQs will be releases with the new Codexes, either individually or as part of a start-collecting-box, etc..). But it could be any Xenos.
Jidmah wrote: The model right before the ork is an AdMech character, right?
Did we already see it?
We've not gotten a reveal on it as far as I know, not only is it Admech but given the detailing on the legs, it looks like a Skitarii of some sort. I know a LOT of admech players have been wanting a Skitarii Prime.
I suspect admech'll be reasonably early in 9th edition because in addition to this they've got a huge amount of new units to put into their codex. GW USEALLY doesn't like to have a codex that has a massive amount of new units in differant sources for a prolonged period of time
And to maintain status quo: deadlocked, they'll have to add one. Plus they need to add another Loyalist so its not All Guilliman All The Time. Magnus has been a little absent after Mortarion showed up, so having him go hit DA would give them a new story line on the other side of the world. Historically it would make more sense to hit the Wolves, but they appear to be broadening the historical rivalries. Its also possible we get 1 new one of each, Lorgar hitting Wolves or DA for example.
And to maintain status quo: deadlocked, they'll have to add one. Plus they need to add another Loyalist so its not All Guilliman All The Time. Magnus has been a little absent after Mortarion showed up, so having him go hit DA would give them a new story line on the other side of the world. Historically it would make more sense to hit the Wolves, but they appear to be broadening the historical rivalries. Its also possible we get 1 new one of each, Lorgar hitting Wolves or DA for example.
except the deamon primarchs have never gone away. so their appering as mini's doesn't shake up the status quo. meanwhile a loyalist primarch returning has HUUUGE implications for the status quo.
Look at it this way, if Fulgrim's mini pops up, it's big news for the fans sure, but for the setting it's less so as it's not going to, nesscarily have much narrative impact. A loyalist Primarch returning would change EVERYTHING.
if the Lion returned, for example, it'd COMPLETELY change the equation for dark angels. suddenly the whole "keeping secrets, secretly being a legion and hunting the chosen" could be upended. as obviously the dark angels are going to be more openly cordinating with their sucessors, and what if the Lion suddenly declared "we have no reason to keep this secret. this is a shame for the entire Imperium to share in and to work at crushing" or simply was like "yeah whatever feth the chosen, new priorities guys"
and of course another primarch could completely change the Political calculas of the IoM (which is still shaking from the return of Gulliman) in short a loyalist primarch's return would alter FAR more because they're really GONE
so yeah if GW is intreasted in maintaining the status quo they'll be less inclined to have another loyalist primarch return then a deamon primarch
Nor have they been present. They've been offscreen McGuffins.
so their appering as mini's doesn't shake up the status quo. meanwhile a loyalist primarch returning has HUUUGE implications for the status quo.
Look at it this way, if Fulgrim's mini pops up, it's big news for the fans sure, but for the setting it's less so as it's not going to, nesscarily have much narrative impact. A loyalist Primarch returning would change EVERYTHING.
if the Lion returned, for example, it'd COMPLETELY change the equation for dark angels. suddenly the whole "keeping secrets, secretly being a legion and hunting the chosen"
Or double it down. The interesting take is if they tell the Lion, the Lion already knows all (he already knows some), the Lion figures it out(most likely), or they keep it a secret from him and now have to keep it a secret from him AND the IoM at large which would be far fetched but entertaining for a Black Library book or two. Also the Status Quo I was talking about was a combination of power quotiient - 3 Daemon Primarchs vs 1 Loyalist should be a very short lived face roll, and leaves one side screaming about Smurfs being the favorite while the rest are the red headed step children etc. They get far more by adding one of each, or evening both sides up - especially if they take a rival or other drama source for Gulliman.
could be upended. as obviously the dark angels are going to be more openly cordinating with their sucessors, and what if the Lion suddenly declared "we have no reason to keep this secret. this is a shame for the entire Imperium to share in and to work at crushing" or simply was like "yeah whatever feth the chosen, new priorities guys"
and of course another primarch could completely change the Political calculas of the IoM (which is still shaking from the return of Gulliman) in short a loyalist primarch's return would alter FAR more because they're really GONE
That's another Fluff reason to do it, and make it the Lion. Lion and Bobby G do not get along. For marketing/tabletop they need to keep the Loyalist/Daemon Primarchs pretty close to even. For drama they need to carefully balance rivalries as well.
so yeah if GW is intreasted in maintaining the status quo they'll be less inclined to have another loyalist primarch return then a deamon primarch
3 deamon primarchs vs one loyalist primarch is IRRELEVANT because they're not all in the same theatre of war. Also chaos isn't exactly united. I mean of the two deamon primarchs we have with plastic models right now one is a servant of the god of change, the other of the god of stagnation.
KingGarland wrote: Based on the imagery I would guess:
1. Chaos Space Marines
2. Maybe Gene stealer
As already mentioned, the imagery is just a place holder and is copied from the rulebook (Imperium and Xenos respectively).
It will be Dark Angel supplement and a Xenos book, of which nothing is known at this time.
How do you know IT WILL BE Dark Angel and Xenos?
Let's see. GW said so? While GW might not tell everything when they do say something they aren't lying about it if it's not subjective thing(unit X is awesome! That's subjective thing and you can ignore it).
What you need to convince you if straight from company is not enough?
KingGarland wrote: Based on the imagery I would guess:
1. Chaos Space Marines
2. Maybe Gene stealer
As already mentioned, the imagery is just a place holder and is copied from the rulebook (Imperium and Xenos respectively).
It will be Dark Angel supplement and a Xenos book, of which nothing is known at this time.
How do you know IT WILL BE Dark Angel and Xenos?
Let's see. GW said so? While GW might not tell everything when they do say something they aren't lying about it if it's not subjective thing(unit X is awesome! That's subjective thing and you can ignore it).
What you need to convince you if straight from company is not enough?
I mean in fairness the concealed titles for BOTH in 2021 might throw someone off whose not paying daily attention to WHC.
I still find it funny and sad how Grotesques have been one of the Dark Eldar's best units forever.
And yet are represented by one old ass monopose metal/resin model.
GW keeps given them good rules, but doesn't want to sell any models of them.
If there is logic, I can't see it.
Maybe GW doesn't want the general audiance to play dark eldar, and assumes that do want to play them in spite of that, are going to buy them no matter what the models are made of.
Karol wrote: Maybe GW doesn't want the general audiance to play dark eldar, and assumes that do want to play them in spite of that, are going to buy them no matter what the models are made of.
dan2026 wrote: I still find it funny and sad how Grotesques have been one of the Dark Eldar's best units forever.
And yet are represented by one old ass monopose metal/resin model.
GW keeps given them good rules, but doesn't want to sell any models of them.
If there is logic, I can't see it.
GW know that bringing out a plastic Grotesque kit will hit Crypt Horror sales
Karol wrote: Maybe GW doesn't want the general audiance to play dark eldar, and assumes that do want to play them in spite of that, are going to buy them no matter what the models are made of.
Dark Eldar need rules more than kits. We only need HQs.
We, Citizens of Commorragh, are so used to convert Grotesques that sometimes forget we have a model for that.
Charistoph wrote: Mandrakes are also not plastic, but that's only part of the reason they are not taken much. Then there are all the beasts, too.
The biggest thing I think the Drukhari are "missing" is some armor (i.e. a battle tank), but that's not really their style.
Still, all that isn't as bad as how far behind the Craftworlds have gotten.
I'd like to point out that Drukhari only seem to be 'not as bad off' as Craftworlds in terms of their model range because
1) Their baseline troops, vehicles, etc all got released in 5th ed as opposed to 3rd/4th ed, and there's an obvious quality gap between those eras
and, honestly probably the biggest one
2) Drukhari have 1/2 to 1/3 as many unit options in a given role compared to Craftworlds.
You've got like 12 named characters to 3. 5 vehicle units to 3. an order of magnitude more elite infantry units. more walkers/monsters. More heavy infantry variants. More generic commander types.
I hate the inevitable punching down that occurs when discussion turns to some random scrap dropping down from the constant 'my 500 pound life' viewing party that is the 40k release schedule. Both Eldar and Drukhari need support, and they need different kinds of support. Armies like Harlequins, Drukhari, and Sisters need more options to flesh out their gameplay and make it more interesting than "here's your one good option for antitank. Here's your one troop. Here's your designated HQ slot filler." Armies like Tyranids, Eldar, and Guard desperately need their hideous out of date lumps of plastic and resin from 2nd-4th edition replaced with modern plastic that's actually worth the premium GW asks players to pony up if they want to play the faction.
Charistoph wrote: Mandrakes are also not plastic, but that's only part of the reason they are not taken much. Then there are all the beasts, too.
The biggest thing I think the Drukhari are "missing" is some armor (i.e. a battle tank), but that's not really their style.
Still, all that isn't as bad as how far behind the Craftworlds have gotten.
I'd like to point out that Drukhari only seem to be 'not as bad off' as Craftworlds in terms of their model range because
1) Their baseline troops, vehicles, etc all got released in 5th ed as opposed to 3rd/4th ed, and there's an obvious quality gap between those eras
and, honestly probably the biggest one
2) Drukhari have 1/2 to 1/3 as many unit options in a given role compared to Craftworlds.
You've got like 12 named characters to 3. 5 vehicle units to 3. an order of magnitude more elite infantry units. more walkers/monsters. More heavy infantry variants. More generic commander types.
I hate the inevitable punching down that occurs when discussion turns to some random scrap dropping down from the constant 'my 500 pound life' viewing party that is the 40k release schedule. Both Eldar and Drukhari need support, and they need different kinds of support. Armies like Harlequins, Drukhari, and Sisters need more options to flesh out their gameplay and make it more interesting than "here's your one good option for antitank. Here's your one troop. Here's your designated HQ slot filler." Armies like Tyranids, Eldar, and Guard desperately need their hideous out of date lumps of plastic and resin from 2nd-4th edition replaced with modern plastic that's actually worth the premium GW asks players to pony up if they want to play the faction.
Actually there isn't a current Drukhari model available for sale that wasn't created from 5th Edition on. They literally had a reset of their entire line, and even have had things added on top of them. I won't argue about the quality of the sculpts because that can be subjective. For all intents and purposes, Necrons are finishing theirs up, and Sisters may be getting some more in the "near" future.
I was merely pointing out that the Craftworlds are in need of that reset themselves due to the preponderance of resin that still exists and GW has only been updating one unit an Edition since 3rd. I'm not dismissing the 'Nids or Guard in this, either, the Eldar just happen to be close cousins to each other and one of their most characterful aspects (literally The Aspects) have been metal/resin since 3rd Edition, while a lot of metal/resin in 'Nids have been introduced since then, even as recently as 5th Edition.
I can only assume Eldar have been left so far behind because they don't sell that well.
But its also a catch 22 situation where they don't sell well because most of their models are ancient.
I imagine Necrons for example will sell a hell of a lot better now they have had a massive army refresh.
Nor have they been present. They've been offscreen McGuffins.
so their appering as mini's doesn't shake up the status quo. meanwhile a loyalist primarch returning has HUUUGE implications for the status quo.
Look at it this way, if Fulgrim's mini pops up, it's big news for the fans sure, but for the setting it's less so as it's not going to, nesscarily have much narrative impact. A loyalist Primarch returning would change EVERYTHING.
if the Lion returned, for example, it'd COMPLETELY change the equation for dark angels. suddenly the whole "keeping secrets, secretly being a legion and hunting the chosen"
Or double it down. The interesting take is if they tell the Lion, the Lion already knows all (he already knows some), the Lion figures it out(most likely), or they keep it a secret from him and now have to keep it a secret from him AND the IoM at large which would be far fetched but entertaining for a Black Library book or two. Also the Status Quo I was talking about was a combination of power quotiient - 3 Daemon Primarchs vs 1 Loyalist should be a very short lived face roll, and leaves one side screaming about Smurfs being the favorite while the rest are the red headed step children etc. They get far more by adding one of each, or evening both sides up - especially if they take a rival or other drama source for Gulliman.
could be upended. as obviously the dark angels are going to be more openly cordinating with their sucessors, and what if the Lion suddenly declared "we have no reason to keep this secret. this is a shame for the entire Imperium to share in and to work at crushing" or simply was like "yeah whatever feth the chosen, new priorities guys"
and of course another primarch could completely change the Political calculas of the IoM (which is still shaking from the return of Gulliman) in short a loyalist primarch's return would alter FAR more because they're really GONE
That's another Fluff reason to do it, and make it the Lion. Lion and Bobby G do not get along. For marketing/tabletop they need to keep the Loyalist/Daemon Primarchs pretty close to even. For drama they need to carefully balance rivalries as well.
so yeah if GW is intreasted in maintaining the status quo they'll be less inclined to have another loyalist primarch return then a deamon primarch
their ENTIRE rivilary story arc was done and finished with them "coming to terms" with each other in the novel runestorm. Having the Lion come back and immediatly start challaning Gulliman would be, frankly, BORING, it's a retread of a story already told.
Nor have they been present. They've been offscreen McGuffins.
so their appering as mini's doesn't shake up the status quo. meanwhile a loyalist primarch returning has HUUUGE implications for the status quo.
Look at it this way, if Fulgrim's mini pops up, it's big news for the fans sure, but for the setting it's less so as it's not going to, nesscarily have much narrative impact. A loyalist Primarch returning would change EVERYTHING.
if the Lion returned, for example, it'd COMPLETELY change the equation for dark angels. suddenly the whole "keeping secrets, secretly being a legion and hunting the chosen"
Or double it down. The interesting take is if they tell the Lion, the Lion already knows all (he already knows some), the Lion figures it out(most likely), or they keep it a secret from him and now have to keep it a secret from him AND the IoM at large which would be far fetched but entertaining for a Black Library book or two. Also the Status Quo I was talking about was a combination of power quotiient - 3 Daemon Primarchs vs 1 Loyalist should be a very short lived face roll, and leaves one side screaming about Smurfs being the favorite while the rest are the red headed step children etc. They get far more by adding one of each, or evening both sides up - especially if they take a rival or other drama source for Gulliman.
could be upended. as obviously the dark angels are going to be more openly cordinating with their sucessors, and what if the Lion suddenly declared "we have no reason to keep this secret. this is a shame for the entire Imperium to share in and to work at crushing" or simply was like "yeah whatever feth the chosen, new priorities guys"
and of course another primarch could completely change the Political calculas of the IoM (which is still shaking from the return of Gulliman) in short a loyalist primarch's return would alter FAR more because they're really GONE
That's another Fluff reason to do it, and make it the Lion. Lion and Bobby G do not get along. For marketing/tabletop they need to keep the Loyalist/Daemon Primarchs pretty close to even. For drama they need to carefully balance rivalries as well.
so yeah if GW is intreasted in maintaining the status quo they'll be less inclined to have another loyalist primarch return then a deamon primarch
their ENTIRE rivilary story arc was done and finished with them "coming to terms" with each other in the novel runestorm. Having the Lion come back and immediatly start challaning Gulliman would be, frankly, BORING, it's a retread of a story already told.
Yeah, I feel like it would also gloss over the more interesting dynamic of how the Lion would handle the way the First Legion have been keeping themselves occupied with the Fallen and Luther's recent escape in general. I feel like him being out of action for so long would make for a much more interesting angle given how driven the Lion seems to be when it comes to prosecuting the Emperor's will, unlike Guilliman who seems to be more interested in managing an empire and humanity as a whole. The Lion's arrival would really alleviate some of Guilliman's issues of being all alone, while also being effectively the new Warmaster for the Imperium while Guilliman can handle the politicking of the High Lords and particularly his problem with the Ecclesiarchy.
dan2026 wrote: I can only assume Eldar have been left so far behind because they don't sell that well.
But its also a catch 22 situation where they don't sell well because most of their models are ancient.
I imagine Necrons for example will sell a hell of a lot better now they have had a massive army refresh.
I mean, that's a bit tricky because that was the case before the 5th edition dark elder rework where most of their line was overhauled and given some of the nicer models we've had for an army for quite some time. So they've proven they're not adverse to putting the effort into fixing a model line that's having issues right? Though I don't have enough insider knowledge to say if the line sold well. But I certainly bought a decent armies worth.
BrianDavion wrote: 3 deamon primarchs vs one loyalist primarch is IRRELEVANT because they're not all in the same theatre of war. Also chaos isn't exactly united. I mean of the two deamon primarchs we have with plastic models right now one is a servant of the god of change, the other of the god of stagnation.
That was kind of my point about Guilliman Can't Be Everywhere and All Guilliman All The Time. Every time a Daemon Primarch shows up in a summer campaign or what have you, Guilliman has to be there, because he's the only one available. I will admit to being entertained to see people arguing with the UM player that some chapter other than UM should get a Primarch so another chapter can be the face of the summer campaign.
their ENTIRE rivilary story arc was done and finished with them "coming to terms" with each other in the novel runestorm. Having the Lion come back and immediatly start challaning Gulliman would be, frankly, BORING, it's a retread of a story already told.
They'll always have a rivalry. The depth of it will ebb and flow, but they'll always have one. They grate on each other. It won't be "Shoot your drop pods out of the sky" levels, but it'll be there.
Yeah, I feel like it would also gloss over the more interesting dynamic of how the Lion would handle the way the First Legion have been keeping themselves occupied with the Fallen and Luther's recent escape in general. I feel like him being out of action for so long would make for a much more interesting angle given how driven the Lion seems to be when it comes to prosecuting the Emperor's will, unlike Guilliman who seems to be more interested in managing an empire and humanity as a whole. The Lion's arrival would really alleviate some of Guilliman's issues of being all alone, while also being effectively the new Warmaster for the Imperium while Guilliman can handle the politicking of the High Lords and particularly his problem with the Ecclesiarchy.
That's what I said too:
The interesting take is if they tell the Lion, the Lion already knows all (he already knows some), the Lion figures it out(most likely), or they keep it a secret from him and now have to keep it a secret from him AND the IoM at large which would be far fetched but entertaining for a Black Library book or two.
But I don't think they'd be willing to let one be Warmaster - and definitely wouldn't call it that - and one be essentially the Emperor.
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Voss wrote: The Lion already has a rival: Russ.
He doesn't need to be the Harem Protagonist of intra-Imperium pointless friction.
Russ already has a Rival. Magnus. Guilliman already has a rival, Lorgar. They all had multiple rivals/best friends. Few of them were universal.
BrianDavion wrote: 3 deamon primarchs vs one loyalist primarch is IRRELEVANT because they're not all in the same theatre of war. Also chaos isn't exactly united. I mean of the two deamon primarchs we have with plastic models right now one is a servant of the god of change, the other of the god of stagnation.
That was kind of my point about Guilliman Can't Be Everywhere and All Guilliman All The Time. Every time a Daemon Primarch shows up in a summer campaign or what have you, Guilliman has to be there, because he's the only one available. I will admit to being entertained to see people arguing with the UM player that some chapter other than UM should get a Primarch so another chapter can be the face of the summer campaign.
Except that you DON'T need Gulliman to oppose a deamon primarch!
the deamon primarchs have popped up in the past, and haven't needed a primarch to handle them.
the grey Knights have engaged and defeated a deamon primarch on at LEAST 2 occasions, within the 41st Millinium alone. (3 if you count ritual of the damned where they had dark angel help and had to resort to orbital bombardment) The Space Wolves have engaged and defeated Magnus the red on Fenris, TWICE, both times without a primarch to hold their hand.
then there was vigilus, no primarchs on eaither side, despite being a very important battle
Except that you DON'T need Gulliman to oppose a deamon primarch!
the deamon primarchs have popped up in the past, and haven't needed a primarch to handle them.
the grey Knights have engaged and defeated a deamon primarch on at LEAST 2 occasions, within the 41st Millinium alone. (3 if you count ritual of the damned where they had dark angel help and had to resort to orbital bombardment) The Space Wolves have engaged and defeated Magnus the red on Fenris, TWICE, both times without a primarch to hold their hand.
Were they on the table top then? Just in Epic?
then there was vigilus, no primarchs on eaither side, despite being a very important battle
So you're saying when neither Chaos Primarch was there, Guilliman didn't have to be shuffled around. But when Magnus came back.. when Mortarion came back...
According to the wiki, Magnus has only been on Fenris once. in the 32nd Millenium, In the 41st he tried to warp in, but was prevented from doing so at the last minute.
But hey, if you guys want it to be All Guilliman, All Ultramarines all the time, far be it for me to stand in your way. I just think the other chapters should get a turn at the spotlight. I just hope nobody against another loyalist primarch return also complains about UM being some sort of favored Mary Sue Chapter or something as UM players say it's OK for someone else to have a turn too.
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Jidmah wrote: ... and it's not like Gulliman "defeated" Mortarion who intentionally started wrecking havoc across Ultramar to draw him out.
I didn't say defeated. They work hard to make sure neither side is "defeated". We're still fighting on Armageddon some 20 earth years later, Damnos has had Necrons revive themselves more often than even Reanimation Protocols would allow for. Vigilus is still going too AFAIK. They sweep the big names in and out for the supported campaign/narrative/whatever but they rarely "resolve" it
BrianDavion wrote: their ENTIRE rivilary story arc was done and finished with them "coming to terms" with each other in the novel runestorm. Having the Lion come back and immediatly start challaning Gulliman would be, frankly, BORING, it's a retread of a story already told.
Would fit GW then Their writing is about same as disney at it's worst with SW which was just redoing previous movies.
BrianDavion wrote: I think you're looking at this from a table top POV Breton, but I'm looking at it from a wider view big picture "narrative" of the setting kinda view.
Well, yeah. The original post I responded too was suggesting a return of the Lion was why they were hiding the cover art.
Breton wrote: But hey, if you guys want it to be All Guilliman, All Ultramarines all the time, far be it for me to stand in your way. I just think the other chapters should get a turn at the spotlight. I just hope nobody against another loyalist primarch return also complains about UM being some sort of favored Mary Sue Chapter or something as UM players say it's OK for someone else to have a turn too.
I would really love for another chapter to get some spotlight. Just not some 1rst founding chapter, those are annoyingly getting all the attention. Just bring back the primarch of a third founding or later chapter please !!!
But hey, if you guys want it to be All Guilliman, All Ultramarines all the time, far be it for me to stand in your way. I just think the other chapters should get a turn at the spotlight. I just hope nobody against another loyalist primarch return also complains about UM being some sort of favored Mary Sue Chapter or something as UM players say it's OK for someone else to have a turn too.
Looks at any Space Wolf or Dark Angel lore and laughs at the idea of the UMs being the super favoured Chapter....
Breton wrote: But hey, if you guys want it to be All Guilliman, All Ultramarines all the time, far be it for me to stand in your way. I just think the other chapters should get a turn at the spotlight. I just hope nobody against another loyalist primarch return also complains about UM being some sort of favored Mary Sue Chapter or something as UM players say it's OK for someone else to have a turn too.
I would really love for another chapter to get some spotlight. Just not some 1rst founding chapter, those are annoyingly getting all the attention. Just bring back the primarch of a third founding or later chapter please !!!
LOVED the Eldar/ DE discussion on page two. Here's what I would add:
Eldar got 2 kits out of PA, not one- JZ and Banshees, while thematically related, are two kits. And this sets the MINIMUM release schedule for 9th- one Aspect redone in plastic and the corresponding Phoenix Lord. If GW stick to that minimum, we will get Scorpions and Karandras. Why? Because they work in KT, which is getting a rerelease, likely Q1, 2021. No other Aspect in resin currently has rules for KT.
On the DE front, releases followed a similar pattern: Drazhar and the Incubi. Now it's worth mentioning that these are DE Mercenary units. Why is that important? Because DE mercenary units work equally well with all 3 DE subfactions, which is super important to keeping DE playable. Also, mercenaries don't get Obsession, which means they are well suited for use with Ynarri. Incubi even have a special strat when they go Ynarri (which is why it's so damn weird that the Incubi were antagonists to Yvraine in PA while Banshees were her ally- totally should have been the other way around, OR the strat should have gone to Banshees, not Incubi).
Again, this sets the MINIMUM standard for DE release: one kit and a corresponding character. If they stick with the mercenary angle, the only thing that works is Kheradruakh and the Mandrake, unless they invent a Scourge character from scratch.
The monkey wrench here is that we know we're getting Lelith. The Wych, Reaver and Hellion kits are already beautiful, which means the only corresponding squad option is Blood Brides.
It's worth mentioning that in the fluff, Lelith has hooked up with the Ynarri and Vect is okay with that, meaning that Lelith may not actually be a DE release but a Ynarri one. Personally, I would hate this- I think the way forward for Ynarri is using them as an excuse to make Eldar models that we've never seen- like corsairs and exodites- rather than using them to take models that we already have away from existing subfactions.
Other options:
Vect as a Supreme Commander + plastic Court of the Archon or Trueborn.
Or
Urien Rakoth + Grotesques.
Or
Beast Master + Beasts to go with Lelith.
Personally, I hope GW goes well BEYOND the minimum standard established by 8th- this minimum standard was one of my few complaints about 8th, and I'd hate to see them make the same mistake two editions in a row.
But I can almost guarantee we won't get less this edition than we did last, and that means at least a Dex, a Campaign book, a squad and a related character.
I'd love it if Bloodbrides and Trueborn were a real command squad option. Also, throw in Acothysts as a unit, why not. My dream squad setup for them would be:
1) W2, A3. Similar to Bladeguard Veterans, give them an extra wound
2) Trueborn wear Ghostplate Armor, Bloodbrides get the always-on 4++
3) 4-man fixed squad size, limited to 1 squad per corresponding HQ just like guard command squads
4) access to the full Sergeant+Special Weaponry of the corresponding squad
5) Ability to swap out squad members for Court of the Archon models.
I think GW should do a box of Trueborn, and a new Archon, both slightly larger and on 28mm bases (like the Incubi). The Trueborn should also have weapon options (like a handheld version of a Disintegrator Cannon for example) not available to Kabalites.
I would really love for another chapter to get some spotlight. Just not some 1rst founding chapter, those are annoyingly getting all the attention. Just bring back the primarch of a third founding or later chapter please !!!
...was this post missing a /s?
Man I hope so, or someone needs to learn the history of Space Marines.
Now a 3rd+ founding CHAPTER MASTER, is a different story. The only Citadel Chapter Master that's been available from a non-1st or 2nd founding Chapter is Lufgt Huron, but he turned to Chaos. Of the Second Founding we have Gabriel Seth, Helbrecht, and Pedro Kantor (2 of which are Imperial Fists Successors).
PenitentJake wrote:LOVED the Eldar/ DE discussion on page two. Here's what I would add:
Eldar got 2 kits out of PA, not one- JZ and Banshees, while thematically related, are two kits. And this sets the MINIMUM release schedule for 9th- one Aspect redone in plastic and the corresponding Phoenix Lord. If GW stick to that minimum, we will get Scorpions and Karandras. Why? Because they work in KT, which is getting a rerelease, likely Q1, 2021. No other Aspect in resin currently has rules for KT.
Was looking at the units. HQs, especially characters, have a lower cost of return so I don't expect the Phoenix Lords always to happen.
I would also suggest looking at Rangers. I know, I know, they technically aren't Aspects, but they do follow their own path, are Troops, so are Kill Team compatible.
Still, there is so much other work to be done with the Eldar, I do hope they look at a more expansive release than just the minimum.
PenitentJake wrote:Again, this sets the MINIMUM standard for DE release: one kit and a corresponding character. If they stick with the mercenary angle, the only thing that works is Kheradruakh and the Mandrake, unless they invent a Scourge character from scratch.
I wouldn't put it past them to come up with something original, either. We could be looking at the Drukhari equivalent of a Ranger or Warp Spider, to say nothing about their obsession with bigger kits like maybe Vect's Dais of Destruction.
PenitentJake wrote:The monkey wrench here is that we know we're getting Lelith. The Wych, Reaver and Hellion kits are already beautiful, which means the only corresponding squad option is Blood Brides.
It's worth mentioning that in the fluff, Lelith has hooked up with the Ynarri and Vect is okay with that, meaning that Lelith may not actually be a DE release but a Ynarri one. Personally, I would hate this- I think the way forward for Ynarri is using them as an excuse to make Eldar models that we've never seen- like corsairs and exodites- rather than using them to take models that we already have away from existing subfactions.
Being available to two factions hasn't really stopped GW all that much, especially if they can sell it to two groups.
And I do like the idea of the Ynnari focusing more on corsairs and exodites. It is a good way to expand the line without stepping on too many toes. Still that's design space that could be taking away from most/all the Aspect Warriors getting a plastic rebuild.
On the DE front, releases followed a similar pattern: Drazhar and the Incubi. Now it's worth mentioning that these are DE Mercenary units. Why is that important? Because DE mercenary units work equally well with all 3 DE subfactions, which is super important to keeping DE playable. Also, mercenaries don't get Obsession, which means they are well suited for use with Ynarri. Incubi even have a special strat when they go Ynarri (which is why it's so damn weird that the Incubi were antagonists to Yvraine in PA while Banshees were her ally- totally should have been the other way around, OR the strat should have gone to Banshees, not Incubi).
Well, the mercenary rule doesn't exactly matter when Drazhar is outright forbidden from being in a Ynnari army.
Again, this sets the MINIMUM standard for DE release: one kit and a corresponding character. If they stick with the mercenary angle, the only thing that works is Kheradruakh and the Mandrake, unless they invent a Scourge character from scratch.
Crazy idea, I know, but what if Mandrakes got a generic Mandrake HQ instead of a special character?
Personally, I'd really like it if we could have more than 3 generic characters in our entire army.
KingGarland wrote: Based on the imagery I would guess:
1. Chaos Space Marines
2. Maybe Gene stealer
As already mentioned, the imagery is just a place holder and is copied from the rulebook (Imperium and Xenos respectively).
It will be Dark Angel supplement and a Xenos book, of which nothing is known at this time.
How do you know IT WILL BE Dark Angel and Xenos?
B.c GW literally say it will be.
LOL so they say it somewhere (i suppose it must be a livefeed or something) and then make it 'REDACTED' in their offical statements on Warhammer-Community... Wow...
"Dark Angels fans won’t have to wait much longer – your codex supplement will be on its way early next year, along with the first xenos codex of 2021."
Maybe my understanding of the English language isn't what it once was but all that quote tells me is that 1) A Dark Angels Codex is coming and 2) it's coming early in 2021 with the first Xeno supplement.
This line of thinking presumes two things. Firstly that the second book is a xeno book (which is based on the picture) and secondly that the connection of 'with' means the two will be paired together and released at the same time rather than GW just generally saying 'two of the first books in 2021, which could be released any time in the undefined period of 'early next year' will be a xeno codex and DA'.
I'm definitely over complicating and playing with the language but it's a bit of fun and who knows, maybe GW will have a nice surprise (doubtful but i'm told on good authority that miracles do happen).
Personally, i'd love to see Tyranids or Orks get some love Xeno wise as, from my limited knowledge, they seem to need it the most of Xeno factions.
I would really love for another chapter to get some spotlight. Just not some 1rst founding chapter, those are annoyingly getting all the attention. Just bring back the primarch of a third founding or later chapter please !!!
...was this post missing a /s?
didn't they already do that with Guiliman? he is after all a primarch of a 3rd founding chapter.
or at least he was before UM became the POSER-boys(correct spelling) for GW.
Rangers! Yes please! Love some company in scale with Amalyn Shadowguide- even Illic Nightspear has KT rules. It's perfect! I'd buy Illic and three boxes of rangers in a heartbeat.
A generic Mandrake HQ! Genius! Caveat: he has to have four arms like the concept art for Kheradruakh, so if that's a feature of the generic leadership cast of Mandrake, I'm all in.
Also, thanks for the reminder Drazhar is forbidden from joining Ynarri, I had forgotten that. Actually I think at this point, no named characters can actually join Ynarri, not even JZ and Lelith, both of whom join her in the fluff.
I also like the idea of a new Archon- I like the old one, but not its pose, nor the fact that it is monopose at all, or that as I recall, it has no options.
I think Vect is coming. He was the first Character/ Vehicle/ Diorama 40k model, and now that this sort of unit has become a big draw for GW, it's only fitting that he return. The Supreme Commander battlefield role was made for Vect.
As for something totally random and new, I think that would be a Ynarri only Aspect.
I'd also like to see more Harlequins. I wish the harlequin bikes were still full face mask like the old metal ones rather than standard CWE smooth canopies with a tiny little mask as a detail. I remember a WD photo with a Harlie wraithlord too; not sure if it was converted using a jetbike canopy or it was an actual kit. And of course, we need the Great Harlequin back.
Jidmah wrote: You seem to be missing the basic concept of primarchs.
Gulliman is the primarch of every chapter that split off the original Ultramarines legion, no matter the founding.
I believe Racerguy may be referring to the RT era fluff. According to the background fluff in Warhammer Siege, originally Ultramarines were a later founding chapter (the book refers to them as receiving both the planet Macragge and 'full Adeptus Astartes status' only AFTER the Battle of Macragge in 745.M41. Its obviously been retconned since, but the 'Ultra Marines' (not Ultramarines) were just one of dozen sample chapters pictured in the RT book, no more important than the Rainbow Warriors or Blood Drinkers.
Though Roboute wasn't named then, and the idea of Primarch was still not really present (the 1st RoC book just refers to Horus as a general), and Leman Russ is a 'Marine Commander' in RT, ruling the planet Lucan and most notable for his cybernetic gills. (Complete with picture). The fluff underwent massive surgery to get today's rigid codification.
I would really love for another chapter to get some spotlight. Just not some 1rst founding chapter, those are annoyingly getting all the attention. Just bring back the primarch of a third founding or later chapter please !!!
...was this post missing a /s?
didn't they already do that with Guiliman? he is after all a primarch of a 3rd founding chapter.
or at least he was before UM became the POSER-boys(correct spelling) for GW.
It must have been a long time before because the Legions and Primarchs have been around for a very long time in the lore. Even longer than Matt Ward has been employed by Games Workshop. Codex Ultramarines dates back to 1995, after the Space Wolves were released. The first full listing was in Oct 1993 in White Dwarf 166 (according to one source) at 2nd Edition's launch. This White Dwarf shows Roboute Guilliman as being a Primarch of First Founding Chapter #13, and the first time that Guilliman was mentioned as being a Primarch. Before then it was the Lost and the Damned book of 1990 which only listed Horus, Sanguinius, Rogal Dorn, and Magnus, but only implying that Leman Russ and Mortarion were Primarchs.
So, the only way Roboute was a Primarch of a 3rd founding chapter is as Jidmah stated, they were a descendant of the Ultramarines Legion. Now, it is pretty much guaranteed that you can throw a rock at a random Founding and it will have many Ultramarines successors in it, but that's not really a good standard to go by, and it was inferred that the author mentioned that the Primarch didn't found a chapter before the 3rd.
I was making fun of how the 13th changed from also ran to poster boys.
But the 4 chaos Gods should have their cult marines before another good guy shows up, ya know like darkest before the dawn and the such.
Berserkers & Noise Marines need new models more than any loyalist needs their primarch, cuz as a Salamander player myself since RT, NO MORE MARINE RELEASES please. My Flawless Host/EmpChild & Eldar(all flavours) would like new models.
Racerguy180 wrote: I was making fun of how the 13th changed from also ran to poster boys.
But the 4 chaos Gods should have their cult marines before another good guy shows up, ya know like darkest before the dawn and the such.
Berserkers & Noise Marines need new models more than any loyalist needs their primarch, cuz as a Salamander player myself since RT, NO MORE MARINE RELEASES please. My Flawless Host/EmpChild & Eldar(all flavours) would like new models.
your flawless host just GOT new models, given there's no evidance they make much use of noise marines
Racerguy180 wrote: I was making fun of how the 13th changed from also ran to poster boys.
I don't mind that, in the big factions with multiple subfactions - Loyalists, Legions, etc that should happen. They should all cycle from Posterboy to Also Ran, and back again. Not in the rules; but in the artwork, fluff mentions etc. The Summer Campaign foucs should not be any chapter/legion/sept/whatever. All big Factions should be represented, but no subfaction should be the top dog every time, or multiple times in a row. Black Legion, Ultramarines, and a couple others have been front and center too often for too long.
Ha, Lucan is the name of a very boring suburban area here in Dublin - not exactly where I'd imagine Leman Russ living. The nearby area of Swords however...
KingGarland wrote: Based on the imagery I would guess:
1. Chaos Space Marines
2. Maybe Gene stealer
As already mentioned, the imagery is just a place holder and is copied from the rulebook (Imperium and Xenos respectively).
It will be Dark Angel supplement and a Xenos book, of which nothing is known at this time.
How do you know IT WILL BE Dark Angel and Xenos?
B.c GW literally say it will be.
LOL so they say it somewhere (i suppose it must be a livefeed or something) and then make it 'REDACTED' in their offical statements on Warhammer-Community... Wow...
"Dark Angels fans won’t have to wait much longer – your codex supplement will be on its way early next year, along with the first xenos codex of 2021."
Maybe my understanding of the English language isn't what it once was but all that quote tells me is that 1) A Dark Angels Codex is coming and 2) it's coming early in 2021 with the first Xeno supplement.
This line of thinking presumes two things. Firstly that the second book is a xeno book (which is based on the picture) and secondly that the connection of 'with' means the two will be paired together and released at the same time rather than GW just generally saying 'two of the first books in 2021, which could be released any time in the undefined period of 'early next year' will be a xeno codex and DA'.
I'm definitely over complicating and playing with the language but it's a bit of fun and who knows, maybe GW will have a nice surprise (doubtful but i'm told on good authority that miracles do happen).
Personally, i'd love to see Tyranids or Orks get some love Xeno wise as, from my limited knowledge, they seem to need it the most of Xeno factions.
As an ork player: Nope. Orks are probably the second most functional xenos army behind harlequins.
Drukhari, Genestealer Cults, Tyranids, Eldar, and Tau all have glaring, gaping holes in their functionality between rules that just don't function in core 9th or point costs that were set by a baboon flinging its gak at a wall chart.
18ppm tacticals and 10ppm eldar guardians is a bad fething joke.
KingGarland wrote: Based on the imagery I would guess:
1. Chaos Space Marines
2. Maybe Gene stealer
As already mentioned, the imagery is just a place holder and is copied from the rulebook (Imperium and Xenos respectively).
It will be Dark Angel supplement and a Xenos book, of which nothing is known at this time.
How do you know IT WILL BE Dark Angel and Xenos?
B.c GW literally say it will be.
LOL so they say it somewhere (i suppose it must be a livefeed or something) and then make it 'REDACTED' in their offical statements on Warhammer-Community... Wow...
"Dark Angels fans won’t have to wait much longer – your codex supplement will be on its way early next year, along with the first xenos codex of 2021."
Maybe my understanding of the English language isn't what it once was but all that quote tells me is that 1) A Dark Angels Codex is coming and 2) it's coming early in 2021 with the first Xeno supplement.
This line of thinking presumes two things. Firstly that the second book is a xeno book (which is based on the picture) and secondly that the connection of 'with' means the two will be paired together and released at the same time rather than GW just generally saying 'two of the first books in 2021, which could be released any time in the undefined period of 'early next year' will be a xeno codex and DA'.
I'm definitely over complicating and playing with the language but it's a bit of fun and who knows, maybe GW will have a nice surprise (doubtful but i'm told on good authority that miracles do happen).
Personally, i'd love to see Tyranids or Orks get some love Xeno wise as, from my limited knowledge, they seem to need it the most of Xeno factions.
As an ork player: Nope. Orks are probably the second most functional xenos army behind harlequins.
Drukhari, Genestealer Cults, Tyranids, Eldar, and Tau all have glaring, gaping holes in their functionality between rules that just don't function in core 9th or point costs that were set by a baboon flinging its gak at a wall chart.
18ppm tacticals and 10ppm eldar guardians is a bad fething joke.
being the second most functional xenos army means they're gonna be reasonably easy to do, Orks also have two models upcoming (Ghaz and a Ork model thats been previewed) if I was a betting man, I'd bet on codex Orks pretty soon
Agree with the_scotsman, orks are not in dire need of a codex at all - the only real issue right now is the "Bring it down!" secondary which won't be impacted by the codex at all.
A refinement of the codex akin to what necrons got would be very welcome to make some of the dead options and clans better, but a thorough job on this is much more important than a fast one.
You aren't the first one to bring up orks as an army which is in dire need of help, I wonder where that idea is coming from.
The new Death Guard model almost certain will be out with the Death Guard Codex in December.
So it's not a stretch to speculate, the "Xenos Codex" for January could perhaps be Drukhari or Orks (given that AdMech and Sisters usually aren't considered Xenos) with that new teased model to tag along.
Of course, these characters could well be released with christmas bundles or some other type release unrelated to Codexes.
In my case, at least, it was based on a selfish perspective arising from my local meta. I don't particularly subscribe to tournament performance although I appreciate it's utility informing these types of decisions.
I know locally, that several (and it is only several) Ork players feel very limited in what builds they can bring to a table and be successful even on a casual table. I personally disagree with them and find Orks reasonable but I don't play with Orks, merely against. Tau on the other hand seem to be doing ok and that they would only need minor changes but again, that's only informed using a small sample size.
I'm glad we could all agree on Tyranids though, ha. As a Tyranid player, the general overreliance on Hive Guard, Tyrannofexs, Exocrines and Genestalers is getting a little droll in an army that's meant to be highly adaptable. The Aussie GT winner with the horde of gants sounded interesting though.
Also, Jidmah, i'd like your signature more if each absolute statement had a link to a peer reviewed journal article. Alas, dogmatism on the internet does as dogmatism on the internet does.
feeling limited by your builds mind you is pretty normal (sadly) for 40k. although there's some positive signs that GW is moving towards better internal balance, both space marines and sisters of battle seem to have a varity of builds you can do. How's the necrons internal balance?
BrianDavion wrote: feeling limited by your builds mind you is pretty normal (sadly) for 40k. although there's some positive signs that GW is moving towards better internal balance, both space marines and sisters of battle seem to have a varity of builds you can do. How's the necrons internal balance?
Seems pretty trash as far as I can tell, tbh.
A lot of options within the necron codex are total non-options. There's a lot of "this unit can take 1 of 3 extremely similar guns in terms of role, all cost the same, one does more damage vs 99% of targets. oh BTW here's a stratagem that only works with the one option that's already the best."
BrianDavion wrote: feeling limited by your builds mind you is pretty normal (sadly) for 40k. although there's some positive signs that GW is moving towards better internal balance, both space marines and sisters of battle seem to have a varity of builds you can do. How's the necrons internal balance?
Seems pretty trash as far as I can tell, tbh.
A lot of options within the necron codex are total non-options. There's a lot of "this unit can take 1 of 3 extremely similar guns in terms of role, all cost the same, one does more damage vs 99% of targets. oh BTW here's a stratagem that only works with the one option that's already the best."
BrianDavion wrote: feeling limited by your builds mind you is pretty normal (sadly) for 40k. although there's some positive signs that GW is moving towards better internal balance, both space marines and sisters of battle seem to have a varity of builds you can do. How's the necrons internal balance?
Seems pretty trash as far as I can tell, tbh.
A lot of options within the necron codex are total non-options. There's a lot of "this unit can take 1 of 3 extremely similar guns in terms of role, all cost the same, one does more damage vs 99% of targets. oh BTW here's a stratagem that only works with the one option that's already the best."
........ when did necrons get intercessors?
Have I been imagining all these different competitive lists with different chapters taking all three intercessor weapon options?
Just having multiple competitive lists with different core unit compositions and different subfaction traits is part of what makes marines so absurdly privileged in the current meta. The fact we're even talking about needing to separate the winrates of Salamanders and Dark Angels and Imp Fists and Iron Hands and the fact that all of them are even meaningfully present in the competitive meta should be an indicator of how crazy dominant marines are within the current meta structure.
40% of players are bringing marines and so many of them are bringing different gak and winning. The best tactics to beat marines are to tailor your list to fight marines WITH MARINES.
Inb4 demanding up-to-the-moment current codex competitive data be the only thing considered when discussing the power of marines that have been top of the meta for a year and a half.
BrianDavion wrote: feeling limited by your builds mind you is pretty normal (sadly) for 40k. although there's some positive signs that GW is moving towards better internal balance, both space marines and sisters of battle seem to have a varity of builds you can do. How's the necrons internal balance?
Seems pretty trash as far as I can tell, tbh.
A lot of options within the necron codex are total non-options. There's a lot of "this unit can take 1 of 3 extremely similar guns in terms of role, all cost the same, one does more damage vs 99% of targets. oh BTW here's a stratagem that only works with the one option that's already the best."
........ when did necrons get intercessors?
Have I been imagining all these different competitive lists with different chapters taking all three intercessor weapon options?
Just having multiple competitive lists with different core unit compositions and different subfaction traits is part of what makes marines so absurdly privileged in the current meta. The fact we're even talking about needing to separate the winrates of Salamanders and Dark Angels and Imp Fists and Iron Hands and the fact that all of them are even meaningfully present in the competitive meta should be an indicator of how crazy dominant marines are within the current meta structure.
40% of players are bringing marines and so many of them are bringing different gak and winning. The best tactics to beat marines are to tailor your list to fight marines WITH MARINES.
Inb4 demanding up-to-the-moment current codex competitive data be the only thing considered when discussing the power of marines that have been top of the meta for a year and a half.
it was a referance to 8.0 intercessors dude. when you basicly had the mathmaticly superior bolt rifle and then the option of paying extra points for the other options which where mathamaticly inferior
BrianDavion wrote: feeling limited by your builds mind you is pretty normal (sadly) for 40k. although there's some positive signs that GW is moving towards better internal balance, both space marines and sisters of battle seem to have a varity of builds you can do. How's the necrons internal balance?
Seems pretty trash as far as I can tell, tbh.
A lot of options within the necron codex are total non-options. There's a lot of "this unit can take 1 of 3 extremely similar guns in terms of role, all cost the same, one does more damage vs 99% of targets. oh BTW here's a stratagem that only works with the one option that's already the best."
........ when did necrons get intercessors?
Have I been imagining all these different competitive lists with different chapters taking all three intercessor weapon options?
Just having multiple competitive lists with different core unit compositions and different subfaction traits is part of what makes marines so absurdly privileged in the current meta. The fact we're even talking about needing to separate the winrates of Salamanders and Dark Angels and Imp Fists and Iron Hands and the fact that all of them are even meaningfully present in the competitive meta should be an indicator of how crazy dominant marines are within the current meta structure.
40% of players are bringing marines and so many of them are bringing different gak and winning. The best tactics to beat marines are to tailor your list to fight marines WITH MARINES.
Inb4 demanding up-to-the-moment current codex competitive data be the only thing considered when discussing the power of marines that have been top of the meta for a year and a half.
it was a referance to 8.0 intercessors dude. when you basicly had the mathmaticly superior bolt rifle and then the option of paying extra points for the other options which where mathamaticly inferior
Sure, the same non-options existed for necrons since the 8th ed index too.
The difference is, the marines have since been buffed, re-balanced and reimagined in order to ensure close to every option is viable and relevant.
Everybody else is still rolling with mostly index-era stuff, and Necrons did not get nearly the same level of base statline reconfiguration as the marines did. It shows incredibly obviously in comparisons between units' weapon options.
You can have:
Heav 1, S10, AP-4, damage 3d3
or
Heavy 3d3, S7 Ap-1 Damage 1
Same cost, same model, hmmm, should I take the gun that can potentially one-shot a tank, or the gun that will kill 2 ork boyz.
Or you can have:
Assault 4 24", S5 AP- D1, nat six to hit scores 2 hits
Rapid Fire 2 30", S5 AP-2 D1
On a platform that has 14" move and FLY just in case you were worried the range would matter.
Charistoph wrote: Man I hope so, or someone needs to learn the history of Space Marines.
I learned all about it in biology class. When Mommy Primarch and Daddy Primarch love each other very much, they get a new baby Primarch, and that's how you get a new Space Marine chapter.
(More seriously though, that's why Primarch suck. You can't make your own primarch, there is a limited set of them, and they are strongly linked to a specific subfaction. Basically they get everything bad with special characters and magnify it)
Charistoph wrote: Man I hope so, or someone needs to learn the history of Space Marines.
I learned all about it in biology class. When Mommy Primarch and Daddy Primarch love each other very much, they get a new baby Primarch, and that's how you get a new Space Marine chapter.
(More seriously though, that's why Primarch suck. You can't make your own primarch, there is a limited set of them, and they are strongly linked to a specific subfaction. Basically they get everything bad with special characters and magnify it)
I mean, besides the fact that narratively, they've singlehandedly shrunk a galaxy-spanning storyline involving every faction's cool named dudes into a sideshow for an edgy YA fanfiction about a dozen beefy spacemen who don't even have the decency to be properly gay and hot.
HH fiction is like reading twilight for the plot. The less it infests and contracts the vast universe of 40k the better.
Mr Morden wrote: At what point does a company have too many armies to service/stock?
GW would almost certainly already have passed the point where SKU count would have been a major problem if they weren't running many of their own stores. Most independent stores can only stock a fraction of the total product line, and even just having a couple basic kits for faction army at this point results in dozens of different products to stock, and that sort of space just isn't available at most stores that have to support and array of different games, especially now that miniatures are more squad-box focused instead of blister packs. GW's presence in the market gives it a lot of leeway that competitors cant match, but I'm not sure how much further they can go.
Charistoph wrote: Man I hope so, or someone needs to learn the history of Space Marines.
I learned all about it in biology class. When Mommy Primarch and Daddy Primarch love each other very much, they get a new baby Primarch, and that's how you get a new Space Marine chapter.
Oh please. We know Marines propagate by inserting their space slugs in to viral young men on the verge of puberty. And no, that was not a euphemism.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: (More seriously though, that's why Primarch suck. You can't make your own primarch, there is a limited set of them, and they are strongly linked to a specific subfaction. Basically they get everything bad with special characters and magnify it)
To this you do have a point. One could try and hide your Marines behind one of the two Lost Primarchs, but it gets awkward when you have 3 or more different slug daddies that are all very different to each other, but still Lost.
Mr Morden wrote: At what point does a company have too many armies to service/stock?
A lot depends on how large each of those armies are. If they are the size of 5th Edition Dark Eldar or 3rd Edition Necrons, you can actually have quite a few. If they are the size of 9th Edition Space Marines... not many without having duplicates (oh, hi, Wolves and Angels).
Karol wrote: Maybe GW doesn't want the general audiance to play dark eldar, and assumes that do want to play them in spite of that, are going to buy them no matter what the models are made of.
No one buys Grotesques lol, everyone buys Ogres and Crypts and converts them lol
Karol wrote: Maybe GW doesn't want the general audiance to play dark eldar, and assumes that do want to play them in spite of that, are going to buy them no matter what the models are made of.
No one buys Grotesques lol, everyone buys Ogres and Crypts and converts them lol
and zombicide minis instead of the official razorwing flock too.
Jidmah wrote: If you really doubt any of the statements, a peer reviewed journal article is not going to change your mind
I'm all open to flooding you with arguments on the ork thing though
It's more a case of the statements of your signature may often need to be made because people go around making absolute statements without any supporting evidence. Don't be the problem, be the solution. Provide knowledge, facilitate learning. My statement doesn't betray doubt of the statements more the method of their meaning's delivery and how it betrays the overarching theme you're trying to get at. Your signature is actually ironic.
Please do educate me on the Orks. I like to learn.
I agree in general, but a forum signature really is not meant to educate people
Anyways, the original idea for the signature comes from a t-shirt you can buy in many places that I changed up. Just search for "stand up for science tshirt".
Feel free to PM me or create a thread on why orks are not a melee army, I think we have taken this one far enough off topic already.
Their writing is about same as disney at it's worst with 
